How Bad Was Bush for the World, Really? (Part 2)
Last week, we looked at President Bush’s policy achievements in Europe, Asia, and Latin America. Contrary to contemporary conventional wisdom, the Bush foreign policy record was not one of total failure — and in certain cases, such as Colombia and India, it was one of unequivocal and unique success. That résumé of objective geopolitical triumph extends past the European, Asian, and Latin American continents and subcontinents, however.
Africa
Perhaps his most monumental and overlooked achievement, the continent of Africa will never be the same after the Bush presidency. Put bluntly, no single individual, in all of history, has done more for Africans than George W. Bush. That can now be seen as an empirical fact.
Bush’s emergency HIV/AIDS assistance has literally saved millions of people. This is the largest health investment any country has ever lent to any other country (or continent). Due to U.S. aid, malaria has been sliced in half in more than a dozen African countries, which has also saved hundreds of thousands of lives. In addition to tackling HIV/AIDS and other diseases, and without saying much, Bush tripled the amount of U.S. aid sent to Africa’s poorest countries. On his watch, trade has more than doubled between Africa and the United States. Not once did Bush toot his own horn or become highfalutin regarding these humanitarian feats. He helped Africa more than any of his predecessors and was relatively humble about it.
This was never simply charity, either. U.S.-backed NGOs, community-based organizations, and micro-financing programs have helped Africans do the things they need to do to prosper on their own. Like that old adage goes, “Give a man a fish and he’ll eat for a day; teach him to fish and he’ll eat for a lifetime.” My grandfather loved that saying. Africa’s progress under George Bush shows why.
Over the course of the last eight years, the U.S. helped make possible Liberian war criminal Charles Taylor’s removal from power. The heart of Zimbabwe’s tyrannical ruler, Robert Mugabe, is unfortunately still beating; yet today he is isolated as never before. Violence in Kenya was addressed and to a large extent resolved.
Yes, Uganda and the Congo remain chaotic, Somalia remains destabilized, and the Islamist slaughter in Darfur was never fully halted. But observers should put this in context: we’re talking about Africa here, not a quaint, suburban New England municipality. On nearly all of these issues, George Bush got the international ball rolling, if you will. During his tenure, the United States approached Africa with a moral clarity not seen in, say, Paris, Moscow, or Beijing — where quick profit, weapons dealers, human smugglers, and cheap political gratification overruled.
On the military front, Bush created AFRICOM, the Pentagon’s new unified combatant command responsible for Africa. U.S. commandos have hunted jihadists across the African desert with great efficiency. From Djibouti to Somalia, local governments and tribes have fought al-Qaeda, as well. If you concur with Thomas P.M. Barnett’s hypothesis, as I do, that Africa will supersede the Middle East as radical Islam’s battlefield of preference in fifteen to twenty years, then these encouraging military developments and alliances in Africa must be judged within that context.
“no single individual, in all of history, has done more for Africans than George W. Bush.”
Your understatements are so misleading..
“Yes, Uganda and the Congo remain chaotic, Somalia remains destabilized, and the Islamist slaughter in Darfur was never fully halted. But observers should put this in context: we’re talking about Africa here, not a quaint, suburban New England municipality.”
Yeah, why not shrug all that off, it’s not like they know better, they aren’t white protestants after all.
Remember Rwanda? That was under Clinton. Remember AIDS spread? That was under Clinton. Also had Bush intervened in Darfur, we would have had the same rallies about “No to war” and “Np war for oiiiiiiiiiiil” from teh usual Democratic and Europena suspects.
“Your understatements are so misleading…”
Oh really?
From the NY Times (that bastion of conservative thought)
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/05/opinion/05kristof.html
Yah ….and that well known conservative media outlet:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/30/AR2006123000941.html
Or…
http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2008/11/bushs-record-in.html
Step away from the bong.
I totally agree with all you have written in not only part 1 but now with Africa and the mid east. Bush has done so much to help the world and people all over should be grateful to him and his administration. Why is it that people don’t see this like they should. People have been brainwashed by the media and are not looking or researching any further than they should. On a critical note for GWB…he and those around him, have done a lousy job explaining all the good they have done for the world. I think he just felt that he could do whatever he felt and not need to explain what was going on. I don’t know if that is arrogance or not but certainly he could have done more to explain and describe. He defended us well but not once do I remember him really standing up while he was attacked by the main stream media and defending himself. In my opinion that was his biggest failure.
My opinion: GWB felt his reward for good works would be in heaven. To toot his own horn would not be dignified and diminish the office of the President. And he would, for certain, have not gotten a fair shake in the press, so why bother? He did what he believed his God would reward him for in heaven.
1. Eitan:
It sure says a lot about you when your only comment is that they are a different race from us. FYI you’re not even correct. There are lots of Protestants south of the Congo and many North Africans are white, Arabs and Berbers don’t look too very different from a Mediterranean European either. But hey, saying the nations Africa have problems is racist isn’t it? Too bad you don’t know anything about the real world.
Mexico,and its corrupt plutocracy could not have had a better friend!
REALLY bad. On to the bonus round!
#5 Chris:
And god said, “Bring it on!” . . . “Blessed are the the killers of children for they protect the children . . . blessed be the commuters of sentence for they will release a new Libby unto the world.” . . . “For god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son, Turd Blossom, that whosoever believe this guy shall not not perish but have everlasting barbecue” . . . Ah yes, the beauty of gawd at work in our government. I have no doubt Bush will get what’s coming to him in heaven – could be wings, could be a shovel.
Pres Bush will be judged more accuratly in 20 or 30 years when the passions and the partisanships and possibly the religious bigotry have faded. I expect he will be in the general vicinity of Pres Truman.
Current views are so poisoned that many people on both sides have no possiblity of a dispassionate or accurate verdict.
I expect that the one found most profoundly pilloried will be the media. It will not fair any better than the Yellow Journalists of the 1890s who also pushed their own agendas to the detriment of the country.
Africa may be the *only* thing that Bush has nothing much to be ashamed of, but don’t try to make him into St. George because of that: he merely continued and added to policies initiated by Clinton, including not interfering with African efforts to obtain low cost generic AIDS drugs under what’s called “compulsory licensing” — meaning that during a widespread health crisis, patent laws protecting normally very expensive needed drugs can temporarily be put aside. Republicans and the drug companies were against Clinton on this, but Bush decided to keep the policy in place.
But aside from Africa, Bush was a terrible, terrible President, and not much an ethical, moral person, as the very, very poorly covered and investigated (at the time) details of his Presidency come to light in the inevitable forthcoming books on the matter. You could have picked some random drunken dude (or woman) stumbling down the street in the early hours and probably have ended up with a better overall President.
Wow the first commenter is so infantile and cynical that the only response he can muster is, “oh yea, well things aren’t PERFECT in Africa, so Bush sucks.”
We’re a nation being run by 14 year olds.
Thank you for this piece. President Bush was a good president, and I thank him for his service to our nation. Also, if President Bush was watching the Super Bowl while people were freezing in Kentucky, the press adn the dems would be screaming about it. So, I just want to say Thank you President Bush and I miss you. You got Screwed by a lot of dishonest people, and you deserved better. And because we didn’t appreciate you, we got the president we deserved. God help us.
Ok, sounds like your turn BC. (Sorry, couldn’t resist.)
Bush isn’t going to get points in heaven for doing charity with the taxpayer’s money.
One of the BIG war items that Bush does not get credit for has been his China trade policy. It has been very expensive to run the current accounts balance with China but when Janes Publishing had their Sept. 2007 confrence the conclusion was unmistakable that the war tensions with China had unraveled. They are not our friends but to have moved China so far away from WWIII is an amazing achievement.
The Red Chinese leaders get to be the most sucessful leaders of China in the last 2500 years. The people of China get 60 million middle class jobs, and Wal-mart gets central manufacturing. It cost the US much of our growth for the last seven years but what would WWIII have cost us?
“Yes, in retrospect, Senator McCain might have been the better candidate in 2000.”
Are you nuts? Thank the heavens that at last that loser, life-long shape-changer won’t burden the party with any more failed runs at POTUS. ‘Bout F’n time too.
#16 kathy – I have to agree. McCain would have been pushed around by the media, because he would have kowtowed to them. He always does. He has conservative instincts, but he loses them when the cameras get turned onto him. Media whore.
I voted for Bush, because he was the least of the evils, and I got what I expected. I voted for McCain this time, because, again, he was the lesser of two evils. I am already getting exactly what I expected.
I think we place way too much emphasis on what the rest of the world thinks of us. We all know, deep down, what the world REALLY thinks about the USA. Without trying to sound egotistical, we are the “engine” that drives the world. I am tired of hearing that we need to get back world respect. It is a moronic concept considering what we have always done for the so many other counties. Most of Europe would now be speaking German if it weren’t for us. Show me another country who has helped Africa as much as us….. show me another president who has. GWB was far from perfect because of his lack of communication and some of his domestic policies but as far as international affairs and keeping us safe after 911, I don’t know if anyone other that Ronald Reagan would have done a better job. I am worried about our current direction in that I feel we are going to be letting down our guard when it comes to defense. Obama doesn’t even want to call it a “war on terror” anymore. Is that term politically incorrect? Mr. Guariglia has done a great job putting this piece together. I do believe that George W Bush will be vindicated with time and that history will prove that creating a democracy in Iraq was the best thing that could have happened.
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Good luck Folks.
The eight year tenure of GWB taken in the context of the centuries long war between Islam and Western civilization has the potential to rank with the Third Battle of Vienna in 1683 and the battle of Lepanto 1571. Provided the ‘Battle of Iraq’ and victory in the coming battle of Tehran catalyze a fundamental change in Islam.
I’m just thankful we’re all still here to even bring up how great Bush was. Some 5000 American troops and tens of thousands of Iraqis aren’t so lucky.
Chris, I’d suggest a less theological explanation: my gradfather taught me (at roughly the same time, in the remants of the Old West) “never complain, never explain.”
Marc Boyd, I’d find that argument (“The dollar has been inflated so severely….”) significantly more convincing if, in fact, there’s been any inflation to point to.
Oh, and Pat, how many Iraqis are here that wouldn’t have been otherwise? if yuo’re going to make comparisons, it’s only fair to look at both sides.
Hey Pat #21,
Do you mind if I ask why people like you only ever bring up the troops that died to undermine their sacrifice? I would not be surprised to find out that you likely are one of the people that did their best to have these troops fail at their job, encouraged the people that killed them to keep going on in the hopes of a political victory when there never was a chance for a military one, because you did not like the war, Bush, or both. Had you and others like you that now are so angry over these casualties shut your mouth and not given their enemy a reason to think they had a chance so they would have given up the fight a couple of years ago, that number would not be so high. I am certain these troops and their families would prefer you do not try to do them any more “favors” like this one please.
@24. AlexinCT:
Actually, bringing up only the troops that died minimizes the losses suffered by those who have become living casualties. Nobody is undermining their sacrifice but the people that put them in harms way.
Peace.
DS
You just keep telling yourself that David S. They knew when they volunteered they could be send into harms way. But then again, why would you care about any of that anyway since these are just statistics you like to use to push your political agenda. These people that went into harms way are able to make the connection between the people that wanted them to fail at their mission, and did anything and everything in their power to make it so for political reasons, and that continue to use their sacrifices & losses as a reason/means to claim they should not have been there. And like I said, they would prefer no more “favors” or “support” from people like that. When you do things that support the people killing them, it is hard to then sell the troops on faux concern about their casualties. Know what I mean?
23. Charlie (Colorado):
Oh, and Pat, how many Iraqis are here that wouldn’t have been otherwise? if yuo’re going to make comparisons, it’s only fair to look at both sides.
——————————-
Well, Good point. I know there are about 4 million displaced by the war. They are here, but not there.
26. AlexinCT
———–
You don’t know me. I can tell you I’ve probably done a lot more for our troops than putting some yellow ribbon on the back of my truck to show support. And to add on to David S., comments. There are plenty of brave American troops who have made a sacrifice for our freedom who now suffer brain injuries, suffer crippling injuries and suffer from PTSD, because they were put in harms way needlessly.
Pat J, I can only go by what you write, and what you write makes your stance quite obviously about a political agenda when all you seem concerned with is claiming that the sacrifice of our military people was for naught or a bad reason. That in itself is the greatest insult possible. Just because your ideology obligates you to lie about the effort made by these great people does not make it so. Their sacrifice was not needless. Those you claim send troops to die needlessly managed to funnel an enemy that wanted to kill American civilians in America into a meat grinder where they where decimated by our volunteer military. Your claim they were there needlessly is the biggest insult possible to the troops.
Unlike you I can clearly say that I have never supported those that wanted to see our troops fail or used our troops & their sacrifices to push my agenda like you are doing here. And I do not have a yellow ribbon on my car either. Too many of the people I have seen with those think like you about the troops and only have those so they can hide behind the façade of supporting the troops while they then do and say everything and anything to undermine these troops in harms way. What I do for the troops is no concern of yours until you for example open your mouth and use their sacrifices to undermine them and their efforts. At least I do not treat them or talk about their sacrifices like an a-hole that beats his wife and then pretends it was all because he so cared for her that he did so. Shame on you!
@ 28. AlexinCT:
The troops in Iraq are there to push an agenda, yours or not.
I support the troops by supporting only legitimate military action.
Most of our troops mean well, and do good work. Nobody is lying about them. The fact is that Bush put them into a dangerous situation, and the result is tens of thousands of American lives damaged, and countless Iraqis dead.
I just happen to think our soldiers deserve better leadership.
Peace.
DS
David S, what the hell is “legitimate military action” mean? Only military engagements that you approve of personally? The kind where US interests are non existent so you can feel good that America is sending their best to die for no reason? Or only stuff the US Congress and the UN approved for example? Maybe you suffer from amnesia and such but Bush, unlike Clinton whom went into Bosnia without asking anyone, got signoff from both our Congress and the UN I remind you. And that was with democrats whom wanted to prevent him from dealing with Saddam in the first place because all they did was talk mean and do nothing, or the UN members that where making a killing helping Saddam circumvent their own sanctions so he could then buy weapons from them. Or are you one of the conspiracy theorists that lives by the completely political and fabricated meme that Iraq being dangerous was a lie? I am sure you are then asking for Clinton, Gore, Kerry, all the democrats in Congress, and all the intelligence services, whom also all shared the same belief as president Bush about Iraq being dangerous and a terror enabler, to be prosecuted right along with him for lying right? Dance around it all you want, the fact remains that just because you did not like our involvement in Iraq does not mean Iraq was an illegitimate war as you call it. Consider yourself corrected and educated.
Your faux concern for the troops shines through as well. Most of the troops mean well and do go good work? Why don’t you stop lying and admit you have nothing but contempt for them already? Our troops have done a phenomenal job, and done so despite a treasonous politically motivated movement that undermined their efforts and encouraged their enemy to fight on long after they where crushed as well as trying to tie their hands behind their backs. Please! Why don’t you go ahead and bring up the usual donkey memes about how our troops are all evil baby killers already and stop pretending you are concerned for their well being. Better leadership my backside. Your problem is that you do not like the fact Bush upstaged your side and won when the lot of you claimed we could not win and tried your best to make us lose. That’s Bush’s biggest crime in your mind. And if you truly believe our troops deserve better leadership you would right now really be worried about Obama whom has zero leadership skills. Stop digging this hole please. Do not use the troops and their sacrifices to badmouth Bush when you could care less about the troops. At least be honest and admit you are infected with BDS and don’t like the man instead of faking concern for our military and claiming tat is why he was no good. Disgusting.
How does this pass as journalism? One paragraph devoted to the country that attacked us–Afghanistan! And a summary which states, “Afghanistan is no longer domineered by twisted al-Qaedists and the repressive Taliban regime. These two pernicious movements were overthrown in 2001 and have been relegated to the desolate mountains that border Pakistan.” No mention whatsoever to the fact that Afghanistan is still the largest producer of opiates in the world, has a failing government, a resurgent Taliban causing great dismay to the populace, and, now we hear, a realistic statement from Sec. of Defense Robert Gates that we’re no longer pursuing democracy in Afghanistan as our primary target (neutralizing the Taliban is). Pucker up, Nicolas, I can’t wait for part 3: Bush’s Domestic Excess!
@30. AlexinCT:
You can badmouth me all you want. It won’t change the fact that Bush&Co fabricated a rationale to attack Iraq. They were planning the invasion before the intelligence was even done being doctored.
Legitimate military action demands a declaration of war from Congress, based on materially true facts and premises. I am certainly not happy with the Congress for not taking this responsibility seriously. Even within these constraints, a war needs to be fought with some legitimate objective in mind. Here again we are lacking.
Saddam was well contained, and there was not a domestic terrorist movement in Iraq until we arrived. I opposed the invasion from the start, because it was a mistake – a position that the majority of Americans now have come to agree with.
Our troops have, for the most part, done a phenomenal job, in spite of being sent into combat without proper gear, and sent to perform a mission without proper planning on the part of the Commander in Chief. Bush declared victory before the job was complete, and even he acknowledges now that this was an error.
I care about our country, and I care about our troops. That’s why I think we need to reflect soberly on the actions of Bush&Co, and consider carefully how we can protect our country and our troops from again being so abused.
Peace.
DS
Go AlexinCT- you are so right on.. when i hear “i support our troops but not the war” it is disgusting because they are being traitors to the US and in fact weakening us before other countries.
Pres Bush was given documents after documents supporting claims of Saddam intent to continue to build WMD. i am sure Saddam moved them to syria or patisktan (isreal did just bomb their plant several months ago an there was traces of uranium. Bush did what he had to do based on what was given to him and he had the backing of congress, many democrats (you can tell by who the traitors “i was for the war before i was against it”) these same traitors knew about everything that bush was doing and only “objected” when it was brought to light and they feared loosing their seat ( i mean they would have to loose all of our hard earned tax money)..
Bush did far more than clinton did for other countries, i mean Clinton was after all to busy playing “hide the cigar”.
Thank you President Bush for keeping us safe. you had to make choices that wer not popular but you did it because it kept us safe.
now i pray for our future because President Obama is more concerned about being popular than he is to understand the seriousness of the threats agaisnts us. it always takes a democrat to get us in a mess and a republican to clean it up.
The George W Bush Presidential Library is now in the planning stages. The
Library will include:
The Hurricane Katrina Room ,which is still under construction.
The Alberto Gonzales Room, where you won’t be able to remember anything.
The Texas Air National Guard Room, where you don’t even have to show up.
The Walter Reed Hospital Room, where they don’t let you in.
The Guantanamo Bay Room, where they don’t let you out.
The Weapons of Mass Destruction Room, which no one has been able to find.
The National Debt room which is huge and has no ceiling.
The ‘Tax Cut’ Room with entry only to the wealthy.
The ‘Economy Room’ which is in the toilet.
The Iraq War Room. After you complete your first tour, they make you to go
back for a second, third, fourth, and sometimes fifth tour.
The Dick Cheney Room, in the famous undisclosed location, complete with
shotgun gallery.
The Environmental Conservation Room, still empty.
The Supremes Gift Shop, where you can buy an election.
The Airport Men’s Room, where you can meet some of your favorite Republican
Senators.
The actual Library, which is to be 2 small revolving, glass-enclosed Presidential Display Cases in the Lobby, next to the Presidential Gift Center where you can purchase copies of those books.
There are 47 “Kinda Serious books” President George Bush tackled since 5th grade school. Including such favorites as “The Wit of Rush”, “F-102 Flight Manual”, and “Case for Democracy”, by noted Neocon Right-Winger Anatoly Sharansky.
In the second, larger revolving carousel, you will see the President’s Louis L’Amour Western and Travis McGee paperbacks, as well as his Spiderman, Captain America comics collection.
The ‘Decider Room’ complete with dart board, magic 8-ball, Ouija board,
dice, coins, and straws.
The museum will have an electron microscope to help you locate the
President’s accomplishments.
There will be a Jack Daniels room. Now that Bush is gone, there are no problems with him picking up some serious drinking again.
Upstairs, visitors will be treated to the 2 “First Lady” rooms. A closet-sized one behind glass where visitors can glance on her accomplishments, and a living room sized display of her wardrobe.
Off to the side of the Library with be the true “GW Bush Shrine” – where entry is restricted to Skull ‘n Bonesmen. Plus Afghan heroin warlords, super-rich tax cut recipients, Iraqi conmen, Big Pharma execs, Mexican Gov’t officials, defense contractors and anyone else willing to prove they made over 3 million from Bush during his Presidency and are willing to give a 100 dollar bill for more gold to cover his Giant Shrine Statue, and 100 to burn in the votive bowl in front of the statue, just to prove petty money is no big deal.
David S @ 32. Please provide me with the proof that Bush&Co, as you put it, was planning the invasion before the intelligence was doctored or provided.
I will however provide you with some facts of my own about Iraq that you can easily look up if you pull your head out of your rear.
1) Every single intelligence organization in the world, every single one bar none, believed Saddam Hussein had WMDs and the capability of quickly reconstituting any and all WMD programs. He had the scientists, the infrastructure, the willing enablers like France, Germany, China, and Russia that would sell him whatever he needed to restart them, and the track record of not only using them but using them on his own people. How far of a stretch is it to conclude that someone willing to gas his own people would use WMDs on others?
2) Not a single democrat disagreed with the intelligence because that intelligence was generated during the Clinton years. Bill Clinton made it a monthly thing of reminding us how dangerous Iraq was because Saddam refused to comply with the umpteenth UN sanction or mandate.
3) The entire “the intelligence was faked or fabricated” meme is an after the fact lie itself that the left propagated in the hopes of making the Iraq war they did not like already unpopular with the American people. If anyone had a plan to undermine or stop the war it was the left, and this lie about the fabricated intelligence was what it spawned. Not the other way around.
And if the only legitimate wars are ones that require a Congressional declaration, something that has not happened since the Korea war BTW, then you better demand Clinton be hauled into court for Haiti, Somalia, and Bosnia ASAP. And the same applies to Obama since he intends to continue fighting the GWoT. Then again, when Clinton was engaging into, what according to you where illegitimate and illegal wars, I do not recall any leftists demanding he be impeached, tired and hung like they do about Bush. And I have a feeling the same will now be the case with Obama. In fact my bet is idiots like you will be spinning to rationalize why suddenly whatever Obama does is OK. Do not try to say otherwise. I know how your type thinks. The real and original opposition to Iraq had nothing to do with intelligence or morality: it had to do with the 2004 elections and the democrat machine’s need to put one of their own in the WH. It was supposed to carry over into the 2008 election except for the fact that the surge made Iraq a non-issue.
You might have had a credible argument about Saddam being well contained on 9-10-01. I disagree completely with that but that’s not the point. On 9-11 everyone but idiots like you realized that nobody could make the claim that Saddam was contained and be believed. You may also not wish to remember this but before 9-11 Russia and France where a few months away from convincing the UN to drop the sanctions against him. And they where doing this for the same reason they tried hard to block Bush’s UN request: they had exclusive oil contracts with Saddam worth trillions of dollars that would go up in smoke if Saddam was removed. With Bush being assaulted by the liars claiming he stole the elections and so forth both of these countries thought they would get the US to finch and let Saddam go. And then you could bet they would be the first to line up to sell Saddam whatever he needed to reconstitute WMD programs in a matter of weeks. You do remember the thousands of tons of chemicals that you leftists labeled as non-WMDs because they could also be used to pesticides (enough to clean out all insects in the Middle East mind you)? What about the 500 tons of yellow cake? Nah, you don’t of course. Saddam was paying terrorist to bomb people in Israel and had already tried to assassinate a US president. After 9-11 you will pardon smart people for figuring out Saddam was one heck of a danger and that fighting in Afghanistan was logistically unsustainable and that just maybe Iraq needed to be fixed. Besides, Saddam was given every opportunity in the world to comply and prove his compliance. And yet people like you side with him and make excuses for him. Say a lot about your motives and character.
As for our troops not having proper gear you can thank Bill Clinton for that. He was the one that cut both the defense and the intelligence budgets as well as deciding to have our people treat terrorism as a crime to be solved after these bastards killed our people. I will remind you that the troops won the fight in a matter of weeks with minimal loses. We won that conflict and that is what Bush declared. You are a damned liar if you try to pretend it was anything other than that. But you do have a point that what followed that lightning fast invasion and defeat of the Iraqi military could have been handled a lot better. However one needs to remember that by then Bush was already constantly being harassed by the media and people like you with the sole purpose of finding fault in anything and everything that was done or not done. Everything was reported as a failure or mistake while any and all successes where simply ignored. I am sure having to fight the massive anti-war propaganda campaign from the democrats and the MSM contributed to our president not making the though decisions needed in Iraq for fear of having that too used as negative propaganda. No war or post war occupation in the history of the planet has been without problems. That the left demanded perfection and then took active steps to undermine the war was proof that from the start they intended to screw over the president and the troops. The fact is that president Bush eventually did correct his mistakes and ordered the surge. Yeah, the same surge people like declared failed even before it was implemented, and which Obama recently credited as having succeeded. You see the repeated pattern here right? We are at war, our troops are in harms way, and treasonous leftists are undermining the effort at every opportunity. And then for simple political gain!
Spare me the drivel about caring for the country and troops please. Especially when you then quantify that with drivel about how this new emperor without clothes that in 2 weeks in office has managed to make more idiotic blunders than Bush did (and the only reason again the American people do not hear about it 24/7 is that he has a (D) next to his name) is going to make things better. Let me give you a prediction: Obama will have to go even farther than Bush did to stop the terrorists, because contrary to the bull about how his election would suddenly make people love us and stop wanting to kill us, the terrorists will up the ante. They see a weak and in experienced nobody in the WH and figure they have been given a golden opportunity.
Get ready for the next attack. Obama now is getting the real intel on what is going on, and all he has done is pay lip service to make it look like he is following up on his campaign promises, but he knows that he will not only have to keep what Bush had, he will have to do more. President Obama knows that what bush did prevented another attack for 7 years. If he changes things and we get hit he will be blamed. So he will keep what we have at a minimum, and more likely than not expand what on these things that make people like you claim Bush was evil for doing them. I am sure you will be here making excuses for Obama doing the same stuff, or even more, than Bush did when that time comes too.
To say this country is being run by 14 year olds is an insult to teenagers. Teenagers have more sense than our politicians do.
“How Bad Was Bush for the World, Really?”
Let there be no doubt. I’ll repeat what everyone is well aware of but some try to deny.
Bush was horrible for the world, really.
And more specifically he was an economic catastrophe for the U.S. Though compared to the Iraqi’s we got off easy.
Let it go. There is a new sheriff in town. Didn’t anyone ever teach you that the first step in healing was to admit your mistakes?
My last visit. I’ve visited and posted at several wingnut blogs recently and I refuse to get sucked into the stupid. It simply takes up too much of my time.
Same old story. Right wing imbeciles posting the same lies.
It is hurting and has hurt our country tremendously.
And just in case any of you bozos haven’t noticed, we have a full fledged economic crises on our hands right now.
And you idiots are here defending Bush. Go figure.
@35. AlexinCT:
Here is your proof.
Ever heard of the ‘Downing Street’ memo?
Until you cite your sources, I see no need to respond to the rest of the falsehoods you have posted, except to wish you well in the fantasy world you inhabit.
Bush&Co got their war for oil, their no-bid contracts, their massive tax cuts, and their government bailout money. And you wish them well, despite the dead American soldiers and Iraqi civilians who sewed their golden parachutes.
If you are truly so blind to the reality of geopolitics in the world that you think your unsourced commentary is the literal truth of the matter, there is little I can do to protect you from yourself. Best of luck with your loathing for Obama.
Peace.
DS
DavidS @35. Oh man not that discredited pile of crap again? Here we have a bunch of “unofficial notes” and the leftist media manipulating the information and drawing conclusions that ignore reality and you claim it is proof? The only people ever to take these personal memos seriously are leftist conspiracy theorists hoping to advance your “war crimes” bull.
Here is proof that those memos are nothing but bunk.
In fact, some people have clearly pointed out that this memo is likely to be as accurate as the Bush TANG papers Rather tried to sell us.
When Blair and Bush met to discuss Iraq their argument was that Saddam was not complying with the UN sanctions and needed to be forced to comply and unless he did there would be military action against him. In fact Saddam continued to flaunt the sanctions until the first bombs dropped on Iraq in 2003. He did so because Russia, China, and France, whom all here sucking in millions in illegal oil trades and did not want to see the gravy Saddam was giving them go away, promised Saddam they would block any US action in the UN like they had before, but failed to realize that this time the US meant business. Of course it looks like Blair and Bush where discussing war as the only option with Saddam not complying. But let’s not attribute the fact Blair & Bush where talking that they might have no other option but force to get Saddam in compliance to Saddam. No let us instead pretend t was an evil conspiracy because after all we want to accuse Bush of war crimes.
What are you going to use next to accuse Bush of war crimes? Link me to the millions of articles claiming that 9-11 was an inside job by the US government so they could go steal Iraqi oil?
Quit while you are ahead please!
JHarp
The American economy is an extremely complex system. No one person or policy can screw it up this badly. It required a combination of culprits and a series of bad policies acting over many, many years to bring it to this point.
While it might be gratifying, it is intellectually lazy (and quite silly), to lay the blame for it all at the feet of George Bush. He had very little to do with it.
I urge you to visit the major financial news websites. They have many helpful articles on the causes of the meltdown.
George Bush is to blame for everything. The economic crisis, the tsunami in southeast Asia, the divorce rates, the murder rates, the Tamil Tigers, Somalian pirates, global warming, Chinese abuse of the Tibetans, the Congo conflict, Mexican drug wars, … need I go on?
He was an utter absolute cataclysm for the world
JHarp Emulator:
“need I go on?”
Well since you did go on I guess the answer is yes.
“He was an utter absolute cataclysm for the world”
Well said. Though Your Boss does have a point that he didn’t do it alone. The republican dominated Congress was a tremendous help.
Still, the buck stops at the top. Worst President Ever.
40. AlexinCT:
————
Amazing how you use blogs as your sources of information. Below is an article from the Observer that precedes the Downing Street Memos.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/dec/02/afghanistan.iraq
Pat J @ 44
Hey Pat, I use blogs as my source of information because I find them to be less biased, or at a minimum honestly biased, than the MSM when reporting in general. You may try to make light of that but the fact is that practically all reporting on Iraq from the MSM has been bogus and negative. It is full of innuendo, patent falsehoods, bad news only, enemy propaganda, and totally and completely devoid of any of the positive things. And no, this was not done because the MSM believes only bad news sells: it was done because the MSM shares the agenda of people like you which needed Iraq to fail, or at a minimum be declared a failure or illegal, so they could continue to claim it was a bad thing. I am more inclined to believe something I read on a blog like Pajama Media than anything I see in the NYT, LAT, or the WAPO for example. Especially when it deals with Iraq, president Bush, or the current administration. The fact is the MSM abdicated their role as responsible reporters a long time ago. Heck, we are stuck with Obama because the MSM again shirked their responsibility. Know wat I mean?
AlexinCT @ 45
So I guess you believe everything blogs tell you? Listen. Blogs are at the most secondary sources, or the very least questionable sources due to the bias by the bloggers themselves.
I also think your definition of the blog-inspired acronym MSM is rather narrow in how you only mention three large national dailies and leave out television, radio and cable. Or are you one of those who supports Bill O’Reilly’s war on the New York Times?
Pat J @ 46. Are you trying to remove any doubt that you are an idiot Pat? Of course I do not believe anything blogs tell me. In fact, I am very careful which blogs I consider reliable to begin with. But if my choice is a blog I am familiar with and anything from the MSM, especially about Iraq, president Bush, or about Obama, I will believe what I see on the blogs I trust over the MSM any day. At least conservative bloggers do not pretend to be unbiased and then mouth off talking points for the DNC like the MSM does.
As for the NYT, I quit reading it a decade ago when it became obvious to me they where nothing but democrat shills. People thought I was nuts then. Look at what the NYT has become today. I guess you can say I am better at sniffing out frauds and liars than the average man.
47. AlexinCT:
“I am very careful which blogs I consider reliable to begin with”
“I am more inclined to believe something I read on a blog like Pajama Media”
Hilarious. And I suppose you believe Joe The Plumber is a legit war correspondent. And I suppose you think Joe The Plumber is a serious economic adviser. After all the GOP invited him to speak at their summit. Right?
Good Grief. It’s no wonder our country is in such trouble. We’re inundated with ignorant fools such as yourself.
47. AlexinCT:
—————-
“At least conservative bloggers do not pretend to be unbiased and then mouth off talking points for the DNC like the MSM does.”
So basically you’re saying conservative bloggers pretend to be biased and then mouth off talking points for the DNC like the MSM does.
***
“People thought I was nuts then.
***
Apparently so do many now!
48. jharp:
———
sweet!
Jharp;
Didn’t you threaten not to post again at Feb 4, 2009 – 10:31 pm?
And if you think Bush is the Worse President Ever, you don’t know much about American history.
jharp @ 48. Joe the Plumber might not be a real reporter and certainly is no economic advisor, but I would be more inclined to trust what he reports any day of the week than your usual leftist reporter in the MSM. With Joe the Plumber I do not get a lie about how he is objective and a reporter only to be fed DNC talking points. Besides when it comes to liberals the more education and enlightenment they claim to have, the more stupid and lacking in common sense, logic, and facts they tend to be.
And it is telling that you find that our country is in trouble, not because our media lies and propagandizes for your side, but because those of us that are tired of that prefer to go somewhere else in hopes of getting the truth. Even if it is occasionally. Maybe you should look in the mirror to see why the country is in trouble.
PatJ @ 49. Man you are a clown. What I said was that conservative bloggers do not pretend to be unbiased and then give you the conservative side of the story. well that’s not accurate either. The conservative bloggers would have to shamelessly also lie to advance their cause to be on par with your average MSM reporter. You know what you are getting with them. You also know what you are getting from the MSM, but they lie about not being biased. And the leftists in the MSM get heavily insulted when you call them on their opinioning and propagandizing for the democrats because they would like to keep people thinking that what they are doing is reporting. You have to be on crack to claim that the democrats do not have the media in the bag after Obama got elected anyway. he is truly our first “selected” president.
52. AlexinCT:
“not because our media lies and propagandizes for your side”
Yeah, right. The media really did a heck of a job spreading democratic propaganda to justify the invasion of Iraq.
Oh wait, my bad. Those was the Republican lies they reported as unquestionable.
But no big deal there. It only cost us a trillion dollars, 4,500 lives, and 30,000 maimed and wounded.
And destroyed our economy.
You are a typical right winger. Try to paint the media as left when nothing could be further from the truth.
51. Taos:
“Didn’t you threaten not to post again at Feb 4, 2009 – 10:31 pm?”
Yeah, I did. I got sucked in. Kinda like driving past a horrific automobile accident and trying to not look.
52. AlexinCT:
“Maybe you should look in the mirror to see why the country is in trouble.”
No. You should look in the mirror. I did all I could to fight the failed policies of the GOP and George Bush.
You are obviously one of their cheerleaders.
It is you and your ilk who led us to the spot we are in today.
jharp @ 52 said: “Yeah, right. The media really did a heck of a job spreading democratic propaganda to justify the invasion of Iraq.”
Nope, but they sure as hell went out of their way to first stop it for happening, and then to undermine it. Once we had the Iraqi army defeated in a matter of weeks and made them look like total idiots, they reported only the negative and nitpicked every minutia to death in order to make us lose the war. Mountains where made out molehills and the US military was demonized and painted as a bunch of barbarian baby killers at every opportunity. Instead of waiting for those that had been accused to be tried and convicted the MSM went out of their way to crucify them. And all so they could then say Bush was wrong. Of course Bush was right and we won, and for that people like you will make sure he pays.
jharp @ 52 said: “Oh wait, my bad. Those was the Republican lies they reported as unquestionable.”
Oh really? I am assuming you are referring to the intel that was presented on Iraq. If that is the case I need to ask since when people like Bill Clinton, Al Gore, & John Kerry, just to name the 3 top democrats of the time, became republicans? Because that intel was generated by them and repeated over and over. Idiots like you like to pretend that Bush invented this stuff, but the facts make you look like the lying scumbags you are.
jharp @ 52 said: “But no big deal there. It only cost us a trillion dollars, 4,500 lives, and 30,000 maimed and wounded.”
Ah yes, another person that only cares about the troops when they can invoke them to demonize Bush and Iraq. Tell me jharp, when the media & democrats were undermining the troops in harms way and encouraging a defeated enemy to continue with meaningless terror attacks that could only yield a political victory, where you concerned about the fact they where helping kill and maim our troops or where you screaming for the troops to surrender?
jharp @ 52 said: “And destroyed our economy.”
More fantasies? Our economy was destroyed by democrat politicians – Clinton, Franks, and Dodd primarily – who used the power of government to demand banks make mortgage loans to people that could not pay them back. Anyone that tried to bring up this disaster was labeled a racist by the MSM and these democrats. Eventually the volume of these toxic loans, with a little help from democrat politicians that figured after they won the 2006 election and saw the surge in Iraq make it a non-issue that a bad economy would help them win the WH, caused Freddie and Fannie to blow up when the housing market slowed down. The financial house of cards created around these idiotic and toxic loans then cascaded through our economy and caused the collapse we are seeing now. But falsely blaming Bush for the economy is copacetic with people like you whom never really seem to worry much about facts, logic, or truth.
jharp @ 52 said: “You are a typical right winger. Try to paint the media as left when nothing could be further from the truth.”
And you are the typical lying moron, lacking any facts or logic, trying to pretend that the MSM is not in the bag for democrats. Did you snicker while you typed that idiotic reply? And do you still try to pretend that we do not have a nobody for president right now because the MSM you claim is republican selected him? Nuff said! Done waiting my time correcting your stupidity, troll.
52. AlexinCT:
————–
Actually you used a double negative. Alex, you use poor grammar and run on sentances. I suggest maybe instead of reading blogs, you do something a little more useful. Put away your little right wing pom poms and learn the English language.
Pat J. My education is in engineering and software writing, I actually had to work for my degrees, so you will pardon me for not being up to your writing standards. Thanks for criticizing my writing. It is always the last refuge for someone that has lost an argument. When you can not win with facts or logic, and the other person is sweeping the floor with you, switch over to insults or crticizing grammar. Petty refuge for losers. Let me give you some advice of my own. Instead of criticizing other people’s grammar when you lose an argument, shut the hell up so you do not give away that you have been schooled. I hope my english was not too difficult for you to parse through.
58. AlexinCT:
“Pat J. My education is in engineering and software writing”
That makes sense as you clearly know nothing about politics, economics, or journalism.
You said “Our economy was destroyed by democrat politicians – Clinton, Franks, and Dodd”
Give me a break. Clinton hasn’t been President for 8 years. And republicans have controlled the white house for 20 out the last 28 years. And Republicans have controlled Congress for 14 years.
Now go crawl back into your hole. You and your party lost. And lost big. And put us into the worst economy since the depression. George Bush will be lucky if he isn’t prosecuted for what he has done.
jharp @ 59. And yet, I am running circles around all of you collectivist BDS infected fools and your lies dude. Maybe I lack the skill to lie convincingly like you do, get hammered on it, and continue to pretend I was not taken to task. It is clear to me I know a lot more than you do however. Your stuff is nothing but DNC talking points. Propaganda at best. So pardon me for pointing out that it is obvious that you know even less than I do. Where does that leave you fool?
Let me educate you some more. This depression was caused by the bank lending crisis, and that was made by democrats. It was under Clinton back in the 1990s that democrats passed the bill forcing banks to lend to people that could not pay back. And it did not stop there. They even passed a law where people could use welfare checks as their damned collateral! Look this crap up. Democrats used the power of government and created the damned scams that eventually imploded. Franks was responsible for one of his boyfriends ran Fannie & Freddie. Dodd regulated and oversaw the banking industry. When Bush, McCain and a slew of others pointed out these banking rules where bad, and that happened on numerous occasions, Dodd, Franks, and a ton of other democrats all accused them of being racists. Of trying to prevent minorities from owning homes. And the MSM echoed that lie. They even allowed Barney Franks to claim Freddie & Fannie where just fine and dandy, not once, but numerous times. These things are facts. Again: look them up. You will not hear that from the MSM which you accuse of being republican shills however because of the agenda. Instead you get lies about Wall Street greed and republican deregulation. If Bush and republicans have any blame, it is that none of them where forceful enough in pointing out the whole thing was going to fail eventually. They all caved when they where falsely accused of being racists by shysters. And now your guy is trying to sell a trillion dollar give away to democrat donors, lobbyists, and operatives for starters while leaving these same problem rules & regulations in place. Get ready for a depression.
You are right that my party lost. It did so because republicans acted like democrats-lite. And Bush let the democrats and the media lie about anything and everything he did. In the toxic atmosphere of lies the left created, there was no chance of winning. Heck, the democrats tanked the economy before the election! The great thing about this victory of yours is that you will now get to clean up your own mess. Good luck with that.
And I say go ahead and try to prosecute Bush. Set the precedent why don’t you. Sooner or later there will be payback. Remember that two can play at these games. Don’t you ever let logic, reality, common sense, and facts get in the way of your fantasies.
56. AlexinCT:
Had to come back and read your post again.
And this sentence is a classic.
“Eventually the volume of these toxic loans, with a little help from democrat politicians that figured after they won the 2006 election and saw the surge in Iraq make it a non-issue that a bad economy would help them win the WH, caused Freddie and Fannie to blow up when the housing market slowed down.”
Did ya take freshman English on your path to learnin engineering and software design? If so please share with me where you were educated. I’ve got two kids and want to make sure they don’t end up with the literacy skills you have.
Though to be honest they already have surpassed you. Good grief it is disheartening to witness such ignorance from my fellow Americans.
60. AlexinCT:
You are an imbecile. I pledged to not get sucked in to the stupidity here and yet I did. Shame on me.
I do have to agree with one piece of your utter moronic post.
You said “Get ready for a depression.”
I’m ready. We’re already 4 quarters into it. Since December 07.
“You are right that my party lost. It did so because republicans acted like democrats-lite.”
By all means go for it buddy. Palin/Joe The Plumber in 2012.
Say something nice about George Dubya and some folks just can’t quit foaming at the mouth.
I like the guy. He has been a good Commander-in-Chief. Invading Iraq was an astute move that will pay dividends well into the future. Afghanistan is no longer a privilged sanctuary for terrorists.
His tax cuts came in very handy for me and my family in the post 9-11/dot com years of 2002 and 2003.
I do wish he had cracked the whip on his fellow Repubs spending. Can’t have everything though.
Current economic mess is much for the fault of welfare-statists than anybody else. And Bush’s successor is even more clueless about what to do.
Bush was far superior to that whore-hopping hillbilly who preceded him. The imbecile of a meglomaniac whom he defeated in 2000 would have
been a perpetual catastrophe. And I won’t even go into the sordid career of that yellow-livered, slanderous coward whom the Demorats
nominated in 2004.
The Man From Midland, along with his wife, is
typical of what our home area (the Permian Basin) produces. There are about 400,000 of us
and we may become a defining socio-cultural matrix worldwide. An awesome proposition to be sure. However, our folkways may be just what the Doctor ordered in this 21st Century.
And if anybody thinks the half-baked Chicago go-fer currently in the White House will cause us to change our ways, you have got another think coming. This game is just starting.
PS To Alex in CT: Why don’t you come out to the Air Sho, next time the Confederate Air Force is performing? You will have a good time, meet some wonderful folks and so forth and so on.
Hang around and you can learn about the oil bidness while studying Shakespeare at the Globe Theater. Also learn about where she really Wore A Yellow Ribbon, about Maxmillian’s Gold, and a few other tidbits as well. We shall bid you welcome.
jharp @ 61 Classic! Can’t beat the argument, so you nitpick the language and my education! What, you a pissed off english major that is angry he got outdone by a geek again? Not going to indulge your pettiness, but you got owned. If your kids are as stupid as you are, I also feel sorry for them. Nuff said dude. You lose.
jharp @ 62. And here I thought from your posts that you where “The stupidity” on this blog. Nobody beats you for that title, except for maybe David S. For your information, we are in a recession. I can understand your confusion on that considering you get your news from the MSM and they are not the most reliable people when it comes to facts. A depression is what Obama will get us into with his collectivist spending.
The point remains that you BDS infected fools should not be allowed to lie about the truth anymore. See you in 2 years. What makes you think the way things are going it will take 4 years to send the collectivists in your party packing?
“What makes you think the way things are going it will take 4 years to send the collectivists in your party packing?”
Because only about 25% of Americans are as ignorant as you. That’d be the same 25% that think Bush did a good job.
jharp @ 65. Bet you that will be abut the same number that will think Obama knows what he is doing, if not lower, in 2 years. Its s one thingk to snipe from the sidelines and play spoiler. It’s another to have to actually lead. The economy will not be fixed by socialist give aways. And the terrorists going to get even more bold. Me, I see nothing but more of the same democrat failed ideas that did not work then, being pushed now. Preen in your new found superiority while it lasts.
“Bet you that will be abut the same number that will think Obama knows what he is doing, if not lower, in 2 years”
You’re on. Bush’s approval rating is the lowest since they’ve been keeping track.
“I see nothing but more of the same democrat failed ideas that did not work then”
That is because you are an ignorant fool. It is Bush and the GOP’s policy that got us into this mess. You know, the guys who controlled Congress for the past 14 years and the White House the past 8.
Let me guess your solution. More tax cuts? How’s that worked out for us?
Alex:
where = were
I think part of your problem is you spend too much time tinkering and blogging instead of living in the real world. In the real world the Bush presidency and the GOP Congress’s idiological pandering have been a dismal failure.
Instead of blaming their failures you and your ilk blame the MSM, George Soros, the ACLU, gays, illegal aliens, libruls and whoever else you teeny pea brains point your fingers to! That’s called projecting.
You lost. The American people, including real conservatives, won. Get over it. Get used to it.
Pat J @ 68. yeah, do not try to argue the facts I pointed out, pick on my grammar. I already pointed out what that means. Funny having you tell me I spend too much time on blogs when you seem to be here even more frequently. Know what I mean?
People like you blame Bush for anything and everything. Even natural disasters! And you accuse me of not living in the real world? I have repeatedly corrected your lies. Shown you the role democrats played in all of the failures you accuse Bush falsely of. And yet you push on as if the facts do not matter. Its obvious whom is ideologically driven dude.
also love the way you managed to accuse me of being a homophobe, xenophobe, racist and all that without having a clue. Another refuge of the lazy mind. Silence the opposition by falsely accusing them of un-PC behavior you can then use to discredit the person with. All while avoiding the real discussion you have lost. As I pointed out before: I prefer reality to DNC propaganda. That’s why I, unlike you, only blame Bush for what he really did wrong. Just like I am able to defend what he did right.
Real conservatives? Yeah, I am sure a leftist like you knows whom those are. Hah! The irony.
jharp @ 67. If you want to stimulate the economy and create jobs like Obama claims he does, the proven vehicle for that is tax cuts. Not government massive deficit spending. I know ideology forbids you envious collectivists from acknowledging that. I remember democrats distinctly complaining about the deficit spending during the Bush years. Something I agreed with them was a big mistake. And yet here we are with a democrats proposing new deficit spending on a scale that makes what happened during the Bush years look tame, and you argue that will fix things. Oh, I am well aware of the party line that it is a necessity because of the Bush failures, but that’s all it is: collectivist lies.
Don’t worry bud. Reality has a mean way of teaching fools that their fantasies are just that. The last president that did what Obama wants to do was Carter. Remember how good things where then? Collectivism has failed every time it has been tried globally. It will do the same again here too. Remember that the definition of insanity is trying the same stupid thing over and over, hoping for a different result.
#34 cedarford:
I rather like Bush,(although I’m not blind to his faults), but that was pretty funny.
Do you have another such gem for the Clinton Presidential Library?
AlexinCT:
“If you want to stimulate the economy and create jobs like Obama claims he does, the proven vehicle for that is tax cuts.”
How’d those Bush tax cuts turn out?
“Not government massive deficit spending.”
The first move is to lower the fed funds rate. And since it is now 0%, federal spending is all that is left.
“I remember democrats distinctly complaining about the deficit spending during the Bush years.”
The difference being we are now on the verge of economic collapse. And most importantly, we actually get a benefit from this spending. It’s not wasted in the deserts of Iraq that we got nothing from.
I’m sure you know much more about economics that Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman. You’ve got Limbaugh, Hannity, and Joe The Plumber to back you up.
jharp @ 72 Those Bush tax cuts prevented a recession after 9-11 and kept the economy humming real good until the democrats after taking power in 2006 decided to cripple it. I guess I should point out that the tax cuts would have been even more effective had Congress cut spending and been more responsible. And had they reigned in Franks & Dodd on Fannie & Freddie we might have avoided this entire collapse. But that’s of no consequence to what is happening now with Obama’s plan.
So now you claim to be an economist? Let me know how well that government spending will work to create jobs and boost the economy. You keep ignoring the links I gave you that showed government spending, especially when it is a boondoggle plan that is just payback to operatives, lobbyists, and donors like this one, do absolutely nothing to get the economy going again. We are set to throw away almost $1 trillion dollars. It will do nothing. They will have to throw twice as much at it next year. That too will do nothing but create more government jobs. The economy however will stay flat (if we are lucky). Business growth, the stuff that creates real jobs, only happens when businesses think they are going to be able to make more money. This supposed stimulus bill will only stimulate ne thing: government and democrats.
Ah yes, just like I said: now you claim economic collapse is imminent, and say deficit spending is the only solution. If said deficit spending was actually addressing the underlying problems you might even have a point. Unfortunately the money is targeted, as I already pointed out, at everything but fixing the economy. There are hundreds of billions of dollars in special interest pork, payoffs to lobbyists, old donors, and future donors, and a few billion to do some meager stimulating. That’s why Obama is so eager to have this thing passed ASAP so not too many people get the facts and realize the US taxpayer is about to get raped. That’s also why he is courting republicans so heavily. He wants to eventually be able to say this disaster of a spending bill was bi-partisan so democrats do not have to take full blame for when it stimulates nothing.
The fact they gave Krugman a Nobel prize is proof that this prize is no longer indicative of anything worthy. They also gave these to Carter and Gore. I for one think the Nobel prize has become an ideological reward for people that follow the right ideology. And I am not alone. It used t mean something. These days it is just a merit badge for collectivists. And just for the record, I think Krugman is a worthless hack. A leftists stooge at best. If Krugman is for something I am immediately against it on principle. Only on the left does your credibility go up the more you are wrong.
The proof Obama and the democrats have no clue what they are doing lies in the fact that when democrats force this through, the bill will do absolutely nothing to stimulate the economy in any meaningful way. after all, it is not intended to do that anyway. It is intended to give democrats more power and cement their hold on it. I am done with you troll. I hope you are around when this happens because I intend to rub it in your face.
Bilgeman:
#34 cedarford:
I rather like Bush,(although I’m not blind to his faults), but that was pretty funny.
Do you have another such gem for the Clinton Presidential Library?
No, but I am sure that a Bill Clinton Library description would be quite, quite funny.
One could start with the Marc Rich Room, donated by his wife thanks to some last minute work by Bubba.
There would be a Library display case to showcase Bill’s souvenir collection of once-wetted cigars.
A Bimbo Eruption Room to commemorate the other “significant women” in Bills life, with the tour guide alternating between a portly Jewish girl in beret and a an Arkansan trailer park skank complete with a mullet hairdo. The rug would be deliberately spotted to honor the President’s own “contribution”.
And so on…..
I think the difference would be that the Clinton Library would have to have those regrets…like with Nixon’s Library…that such a gifted, brilliant man of great accomplishments in office is forever “tainted” by his personal and moral shortcomings.
Whereas the George W. Bush Library would be of a tone of national regret that the man was not up to the Office. (Save for a very brief period after 9/11) And how his monomaniacal obsession with a few thousand “Evildoers” who he “kept us all safe from” – very light casualties prevented possibly, as conflicts go…While helping wreck the country from his neglect and incompetence in handling his other critical Presidential duties.
And a room should also go to display Al Gore and John Kerry – two singular misfits – that enabled Bush’s 8 years. One wierd and determined to lose several states to get more popular with the anti-gun Hollywood crowd. The other who not only dishonored his uniform, but afflicted with terminal Senatoritis and was so genuinely unlikable the country had to hold it’s nose and give Dubya a 2nd chance praying he would improve. He didn’t, of course.
Read them and weep. Even freaking NPR thinks this thing is bad. There is a reason for the urgency, and it is not the economy.
@73. AlexinCT:
In that case, your credibility has expired.
Peace.
DS
Why David S @ 76? Because I am right? Thanks for the complement.
73. AlexinCT:
“Let me know how well that government spending will work to create jobs and boost the economy.”
OK. I’ll keep it simple so even the simple minded can understand.
1) Government spends money to update a hospital
2) Government pays Joe The Plumber to do the work
3) With Joe The Plumber’s new found wealth
a) Joe The Plumber takes a family vacation
b) Joe The Plumber takes family out to eat
c) Joe The Plumber buys new car
4) All of Joe The Plumber’s spending creates jobs and generate tax receipts.
4) American’s benefit by getting better health care facilities and thus better health care
________________________________________________
Under the wingnut plan.
Joe The Plumber gets a tax cut.
Since Joe The Plumber has no job the tax cut is meaningless. And since Joe The Plumber has no disposable income he cannot go out to eat, buy a new car, or go on vacation.
You are welcome.
75. AlexinCT:
————
Funny. You belittle the MSM in a previous post. And here you are posting articles from them.
Dead on, cedarford! Hilarious!
@77. AlexinCT:
You are “right” only in the sense that you are “not left”. Your arguments are wrong. Your url is a very apt description. Wasting time is about all I see you accomplishing here.
Peace.
DS
cedarford:
“And a room should also go to display Al Gore and John Kerry – two singular misfits – that enabled Bush’s 8 years.”
Heh…That would be the “Al Gore Carbon Neutral Trophy Shed” ’round back behind the Clinton Library.
And the John Kerry “Hall of Heroes”…dedicated to Viet Nam era draft dodgers and antiwar protestors.
jharp @ 78. Where did government get the money to update the hospital in the first place? Think those people that got mugged by government, which then could only spend $1 of every $2 it took because of its inefficiencies, could not have spend their money the same way, nay even better, without government? Yeah, thought so. Besides government needs more money to keep this cycle alive so your item #3 should read: Most of the money Joe The Plumber makes gets taken in taxes. Then the rest of what you post does not happen at all. And let me fix your concept of “the wingnut plan”.
1) Businesses get a tax break which encourages them to expand and create new jobs.
2)Replace government in all your Joe the Plumber posts.
Pat J. @ 79. Funny that! Maybe you need some reading comprehension. We where discussing the role of the MSM in regards to reporting on Iraq and Bush. Don’t let those details get in the way. Occasionally they do get things right. Also look at specifically which MSM outlets & authors I quoted.
David S @81. Yeah sure. If you are wasting your time why do you keep responding to my posts? Or do you mean I am wasting your time because you are trying to have the last word and cant get that to happen? You certainly are trying to waste mine. Do you work for MoveOn.org or something posting negative stuff on Bush? Because otherwise I am having a hard time understanding why you keep, as you put it, “wasting your time”, and mine too, with these totally vacuous posts of yours….
“Where did government get the money to update the hospital in the first place?”
They borrowed it you moron. Just like the trillion they borrowed for the Iraq goodwill mission.
They difference here is we actually get some benefits this time.
“Most of the money Joe The Plumber makes gets taken in taxes.”
Are you truly this stupid? Far less than half gets taken in taxes.
“1) Businesses get a tax break which encourages them to expand and create new jobs.”
There is no demand for the goods and services produced by business. That is the idea of the stimulus. To create demand.
Do you honestly believe GM and Ford need tax breaks to make more cars that no one can afford.
You are a buffoon. And know nothing about economics.
83. AlexinCT:
————-
“Also look at specifically which MSM outlets & authors I quoted.”
You didn’t quote them. You copy and pasted them. Just like I did with your quote above. I then added quotation marks to make it a quote.
I’ll make a deal. I’ll quite posting on this thread if you do? Idiot!
jharp @ 84. They borrowed it? Really? Magically? You do understand they now need to pay it back right? At least the money they spent on Iraq made a difference. The money they are currently printing will do nothing of the sort.
I pay a lot of taxes. And I feel I already pay way too much. You think taxes are OK because they are not taking half already? Envy much?
Like I said before: that bill they are trying to pass of as a stimulus will stimulate absolutely nothing. It is loaded with pork and payoffs for lobbyists, operatives, and old and future donors. You are either lying or being willfully ignorant when you claim it will create any jobs other than government jobs. Bureaucrats that shuffle paper and contribute nothing to any kind of growth. Look how well this stuff has worked in Greece, Spain, England, France and other Western European countries. That kind of economic disaster is where we are headed for. Double digit unemployment, mad inflation on prices and deflation of the dollar, and economic moribundity. But hey, it gives democrats even more of a death grip on the economy and the seats of power, so it is a great thing. And it is clear to me that I know a lot more about economics than you do. What you believe in is called collectivism. It has never worked.
GM and Ford should be allowed to declare bankruptcy, restructure their debt, and allowed to try again. If they can not hack it, let them fail. Government should not be bailing out corporations that are losing money. Even if they are doing so because of government overregulation to begin with. Then again, and lets be honest, these bailouts for GM, Ford declined them, are not about the company, but about the unions. A little trash talk about evil Wall Street, corporate greed and such, but in the end this is a pay out for the unions.
Pat J @ 85. You first.
86. AlexinCT:
You are an uneducated fool. I’m outta here.
Your posts are incoherent. I don’t care to take the time to respond to such idiocy.
jaharp, I have just read through every one of your posts. I am amazed. You need some pills fast. Go back and take a look yourself at all of them and I would ask everyone else to as well. You are one angry liberal. (typical) Considering you just had the “media” place your guy in the White House I am so surprized that you are still angry. BUT then again, it is typical of people of your caliber. Every time you posted something here you called someone either an idiot or some other derogatory insult instead of being the “eduacated man” that you claim to be and argue like am man. Obama is completely unvetted and the “stuff” is going to hit the fan soon. Have you seen the “REAL” news about what the rest of the world is now doing that Obama is pres? OH MY LORD… let’s see what happens over the next few months. The economy has taken the front page but in a short time, there will be major international stuff to tend to and Obama is not “there yet”. I think you need to take a ‘chill pill” for a bit and just calm down because HE (the anointed one) is only the president for 2 weeks and “stuff” is already starting to fly. Honesty? Intergrity? Change” Transparency? OMG To date everyone he has choosen has either had major tax issues with evasion or under reporting or conflicts of interest. The only one who has no major issues is gates and that was Bush’s guy. WILD! It is still same ole same ole. Where is the change except to socialize this country and make it like Spain? Give yourself a breather jaharp and just wait a bit to see what you man does ok? Let us all wait and see if he could deal with Iran and Korea and Russia and all they have been doing this past week. Have you seen the news today? Not MSNBC news but the real news jharp? This makes the recession look like small potatoes. Relax jahrp or else you may pop a vessel somewhere. ( I wonder what your BP is…poor guy) I am not sure if I am explaining myself clear enough to someone as “educated as you” considering I am just a knuckledragger. Try to get a life…ok? I am sure you will be much better off and much healthier in the long run. Please take it from me..ok? I’m a doctor and just concerned about your health….ok? CHILL BRO. PEACE
jharp @ 87. Way to put me in my place man! You have gone from criticizing my grammar and intelligence to just plain slinging insults. But you, not once, disproved anything I said. You just accused me of telling lies and dismissed anything I said outright. For a smart guy who thinks people like you now own the world, you sure act like a spoiled little child. Maybe you believe Stalin was right when he said that if you told a lie often enough people would come t believe it. But there are some of us that learned from that that the lies have to be fought against. My bet is you will be back again, and just as vacuous and deceitful in your commentary, and of curse insulting of anyone that shows you for what you are.