Health Care Plan? What Health Care Plan?
We also saw the proposal to tax employer-provided benefits. That didn’t sit well with Democrats’ Big Labor patrons, many of whom have members who receive generous health care benefits. And this gambit would represent, of course, a stunning reversal of Obama’s campaign position, which was loudly proclaimed in numerous TV ads excoriating his opponent for suggesting this very idea. (Actually John McCain wanted to provide a tax credit in lieu of employer benefits, a position far more generous than what Democrats were considering.)
But aside from the knotty legislative issues, there looms a larger political problem for the president and Congress. Simply put, the economy isn’t any better and they lack credibility to take on a huge government-run redesign of 300 million Americans’ health care. Is the gang which got the stimulus wrong the same crowd to whom we want to entrust our family health care? “Misreading” the number of jobs they could “save or create” is one thing, but getting health care redesign for the entire country wrong could be, pardon the expression, a fatal error.
Indeed, the administration’s fiscal train wreck and stimulus failure have made health care reform tougher. The funding dilemma is made infinitely more difficult by the widening budget deficit. Meanwhile the soaring unemployment figures suggest now might be the time to focus on job-creation, not a whole new set of taxes, mandates and regulations. Really, is now the time to spend another trillion dollars and whack taxpayers?
So the president continues to issue platitudinous statements and insist Congress “get it done.” He is threatening to delay the August recess. But of course, Congress, not the White House, decides when lawmakers go on vacation. And the president, absent any specific plan of his own, is in a poor position to insist Congress come to a legislative conclusion. After all, why doesn’t he tell us what he wants health care to look like?
Then there is the public. At least according to one poll, the voters (perhaps increasingly worried about their jobs) are no longer clamoring for the government to redesign and possibly take over their health care. Honestly, who can blame them? If the choice is the current system or a bevy of new taxes and nationalized health care, perhaps the status quo isn’t so bad after all.
But for the president and the Democrats this is do-or-die time. Their base will never forgive them if they don’t achieve nationalized health care now. And the prospect of facing the voters in 2010 with double-digit unemployment and no significant legislative accomplishment is enough to send shivers up the spines of even the most confident Democrats. After all, if the Democrats can’t deliver either an economic recovery or health care reform, it might be time for “change.”
They can’t deliver economic recovery and the people don’t want socialized medicine. Six months in, it’s already time for change – and I don’t just mean Congress.
Give AUSTERITY a chance!
Even more amusing is Charlie Rangel’s contention that a $540 billion dollar tax “surcharge” will “help pay for” a $1 trillion + “national health care” plan- when we’re already running a deficit twice that size due to the first round of “stimulus” spending, with more of same incoming.
This is like falling off a cliff and, halfway to the ground, saying “so far, so good”.
Due to the entrenched nature of the “party of incumbency” (on both sides of the aisle), it’s probably impossible to get nitwits like Rangel thrown out of office- but could we at least have a law requiring them to wear a dunce cap and a red clown nose when they publicly say something that even a two-year-old knows is dumb?
clear ether
eon
Let’s hope that this bill stalls or fails altogether. As stated in the article the “stimulus” is not exactly working to boost the economy or produce jobs that have been lost. Voting against all democrats currently in congress and those up for seats in 2010 should be a good start in slowing or reversing the bad bills currently in effect.
Obama’s policies are an inch deep and a mile wide. His audacity of expectations is breathtaking. He wants, therefore someone need to make it happen – he is the potentate and the minions will make it happen.
Before this is all over the Democrat progressivenistas will feel a lot more chills up their spines,and they should be feeling them instead of the chills being up the American people’s spines.
So in addition to being potential terrorists, citizens with handheld calculators and checkbooks now constitute an annoying special interest group slowing our plunge toward becoming the former United States of America.
Personally, I still can’t get the hang of writing rubber checks in increasingly higher amounts to compensate for downward pressure on our income.
Barack Obama no longer has the ability to push major legislation. He is already a marginalized politician. The American public legitimately senses that these medical care “reforms” will cause far more harm than good. Most know that the money isn’t there to support Obama’s utopian goals.
Perhaps disorganization and disorder on the part of Democrats will accomplish what self-described consumer advocacy groups cannot: stopping a misguided, ill-conceived, and poorly planned health-reform program from advancing.
Especially confounding is the AARP. By most folks’ reckoning, a single-payer system (the one favored by Obama and his closest advisors), would supplant Medicare — and severely reduce services to seniors.
That begs the question: What incentives are being offered AARP execs to secure their compliance?
“the gang which got the stimulus wrong”
What are you talking about? It’s all working perfectly and “as planned”…Pres. Hopenchange told me so himself…and on the tv no less! TV can’t lie, can it?
Uhm…bushfailedeconomicpolicies…yeah…that makes sense, sorta…that mess could take, oh, eight whole years to completely deal with…yeah…we may never need to stop blam- I mean…it may stymie our economic recovery for the forseen future…
/eyeroll
“Plan, we don’t need no stinking plan” Hurry up and get it signed, and don’t bother reading the fine print because we know what is best for you, and there isn’t any fine print yet anyway. Another czar will be appointed to watch your interests and the tentriles of fascism will nationalize another industry. Sign here before reading it, a drop of blood will do.
The crisis is not yet defined, other than the high premium payments from one group that distributes the medical costs to another group. We will all be more equal and formed into a more perfect union when we are all wearing the same chains.
P.S. McCain has got to go as he is still serving his captors with the delusion that he is helping his fellow prisoners.
The disarray comes from the top down since President Obama is not a leader; he has no real plan himself, but wants to be the master orator thanks to his magic teleprompter & script provided beforehand; like the disastrous Porkulus, Obama is allowing Congress to write the Health Care bill & he tries to sell to the public. However, given Porkulus has failed, the Democrats & particularly President Obama possesses no credibility. The Health Care bill exists in many forms depending on the committee & no Democrats can agree on a single plan.
The Democrats are also scared of their prospects for the 2010 elections since unemployment keeps rising. President Obama cannot keep blaming President Bush for his problems; he looks like an insecure, feckless, immature child playing President of the United States.
If President Obama thinks it is bad now, just wait until the inflation hits the fan. Obama’s selfish spending will not work & his solutions will be a laughingstock. I think Obama will be beside himself when his realizes his speeches, town halls, & interviews all backfire.
Don’t bet that this collapse of the health care takeover will just magically happen. Write to your Senators and let them know you don’t want this. Many of us wrote off Obama early in the campaign since he’s just an empty suit. However, he still got elected.
3. eon:
This is like falling off a cliff and, halfway to the ground, saying “so far, so good”.
That analogy made me double over in laughter.
Sadly…it’s scary in its absolute truth!
#12 Sebastian Shaw: “magic teleprompter & script provided beforehand”
Here are a few videos, and nice examples, of Obama’s “gift” of rhetoric, and what happens when the ‘prompter fails – guaranteed to make you chuckle:
The “Gifted” Orator”
Uh, uh, uh
Teleprompter Falls Over
Why the surprise? Clinton tried to implement socialized medicine and he(she) failed miserably. Americans are no more accepting of the scheme now than then.
What we are seeing is the typical leftist ploy of “create a crisis, become the fix for the created crisis.”
They blather repeatedly that we have a crisis: “Health care is in crisis! If we don’t fix it, people will DIE!”
The problem most people face in health care is not in the CARE, but in the COVERAGE. Even the best group plans have huge holes in them. The two items need to be separated in order to be addressed effectively (I know: government effectiveness is an oxymoron).
Leave health care alone. The United States still offers the best in newest technology, treatments, and expedient intervention.
The first, most important “fix” in health coverage needs to be to STOP paying for treatment of illegal aliens. Once again, however, our ever-expanding government thinks first steps must always be to spend, rather than to save.
The second step would be to clarify that “46.6 million uninsured” faux statistic. The number means nothing when it’s given as a whole. But when it is divided into population groups, it takes on a whole new meaning.
The following information can be found at the census website:
Of that 46.6 million, about 9.5 million are illegal aliens. About 17 million live in households with incomes exceeding $50,000.00, presumably earning enough to purchase private insurance. Eighteen million uninsured are between the ages of 18 and 34 – and from that number, 30% of them who become uninsured remain so for more than 12 months; however, 50% of them regain insurance coverage within four months of losing it. (Thank you Mark Levin for breaking this down in your excellent book “Liberty and Tyranny”).
There is a lot of deception at play by the left and the Modern Liberals in regards to the health care issue (truly, everything they do is a deception in some form or another).
I have read that one of the best ways to usher in socialism is through health care reform. Crying “crisis” is one of the left’s favorite fear-mongering tactics.
If the annointed One cannot get universal socialized health care shoved through a democratic Congress, maybe the end is in sight for that turkey of an idea. One can only hope.
Re Moogie’s links…. The “Gifted” Orator link made my day! Wonder what the people in the audience were thinking about Dear Leader during that tragedy? Priceless!
Maybe the Democrats can ask for the “Easy” button back that they gave the Russians. That seems to be the level of interest in looking at the second and third order effects with the proposed “plan.”
Jennifer:
“So the president continues to issue platitudinous statements and insist Congress “get it done.””
I think you have started to realize the vague and anti-intellectual position that Obama is taking on almost every issue. The only pragmatism that the president employs is to insist that congress not “do nothing”. While Obama has tried to bring his “leadership” to the general public, by holding his awfully one-sided “townhalls” (where there was never a debate), the congress has gone off into an entirely different direction. The congressional majority is trying to placate various special interests and correct the idealogical problems that current legislation presents, while keeping their focus squarely on politics. Where was Obama when someone was needed to keep the focus?
The president cannot point to his leadership on any legislation — past or present — to justify why he would be a helpful mediator in the despicable mess that health care legislation has become. He has not proposed specific legislation, and relies on rather vague comments that the public option is a requirement. Even that is then qualified with a “trigger”. The extent to which Obama can help his own party is extremely limited, and he may even make it worse by interjecting with his somewhat arbitrary idealogical and utopian constraints (finish this legislation by fall, or else…)
Although Obama does not deserve credit for the specific legislation coming from the congress, he does deserve blame. He deserves blame for supporting, in practice and in principle, a stimulus and budget that flies far from his goal of being fiscally responsible. He deserves blame for stating that he would change “nothing” about the stimulus, even knowing what he knows today, despite the failed goal of reaching a target 8% maximum unemployment rate. He deserves blame for publicly claiming that all of the “current” Democratic health care proposals are paid for and deficit neutral, even though they are not. And if he was lying to us about these issues all along, he deserves blame for that too.
Blaming Obama is not vindictive. Blame is required to reconcile Obama’s statements that only the government can solve this economic crisis, with the reality that government can exacerbate it. Obama has not shown the executive leadership qualities necessary for governing. Rather, he behaves like a politician who is keenly aware that he is about to be blamed, and is positioning himself to excuse the dismal results.
In normal circumstances, the prospect of certain or evident failure would be enough for one to compromise, or capitulate, but Obama has never experienced a failure that he could not talk himself out of. And since talking is his only great talent, he will always try that before he tries anything else. I do not expect Obama to change, I expect him to employ rhetoric — there is no need to presume that Obama is any more complex or special than an average, if not poor, politician.
The funny thing is, if he hadn’t indulged the political payoff stimulus Bill, but instead used his new election capital to pass a health care coverage bill, he’d've succeeded, and he would’ve cemented his Presidency. Evil bears the seeds of its own defeat.
What does it say about President Obama when the Democrats have majority seats in the House of Representatives & the Senate, yet cannot pass complex legislation? President Obama is a turkey of a leader. Without his so-called popularity, Obama is a marginalized Leftist without a party. 19% cannot pass anything.
#21 Mike: If you’d like to see how “intelligent” Obama is, please check out the videos I posted above, at #15.
I have often said that Obama doesn’t really “own” anything he says. Sure, he has speech writers, just like all major politicians. But they usually “own” or believe what they are reading/saying. The information has been internalized by most of them, so that if something interrupts the speech (teleprompter blacks out or papers are blown off the podium by a gust of wind) they can usually ad lib until the problem is rectified (eg: Sarah Palin during the RNC when she added the pit bull in lipstick joke).
Obama, on the other hand, simply does not know what he will be reading next on the prompter. When it inexplicably falters, he also falters, as he has no idea what he is saying. The speech about health care is a prime example of his vapidness in this regard. If he really knew the content of his speech, he would be able to at least ad lib something to fill in the blanks. He can’t even do that. He is reading with his mouth only while his mind is elsewhere. He is completely disconnected from what he is saying.
I like a line from that old “Moonlighting” television show, where one character is obviously spacing out. The other character quips: “Next time you leave, you wanna take your body with you?”
Obama is incapable of coming up with any kind of detailed or comprehensive plan about anything: the economy, health care, foreign policy, domestic policy. How can he? He has no experience at creating anything, other than his own wealth through his ghost-written autobiographies.
This bill has unintended consequences written all over it. When something of value is all of a sudden given away “for free”, what do you think happens to the level of demand for that product? Despite the creative math employed by democrats, the demand will go up, increasing costs per person necessarily. Whether through taxation or pre-tax dollars, this cost will have to be paid for eventually. Democrats seem to be the ones perfectly willing to let their children and grandchildren foot the bill.
What the bill will do in addition to increasing costs and degrading quality is create more dependency on government, the reversal of which will pull the rug out from 300 millon Americans.
I would also like to point out that the party of “no” has offered some quality solutions, none of which have been listened to by the fillibuster-proof dem congress, which owns completely every radical idea it passes. Ron Paul, for instance, has a great idea for a “negative outcomes” insurance, which is a one-time premium for a planned procedure. If the risk of a negative outcome is 1 in 100 and the procedure cost $50,000, the cost to the policy-holder would be $500. Not nearly complicated enough for democrats to use to fool people into accepting higher taxes, but a better solution to at least part of the problem nonetheless. This, along with a cap on malpractice payouts and reducing the employer’s role would have the desired effect at virtaully no cost. And we would get to keep the best doctors and medical technology in the world right here in the US. If you have already fallen for the life expectancy nonsense as a measure of the quality of our healthcare, you should know that cancer survivability is a much more accurate measurement. Guess which country has the best survivability rate? Hint: it ain’t Britain or Canada.
Just because our solutions don’t involve complete government takeovers doesn’t mean they haven’t been offered.
http://www.zazzle.com/obama_lied_the_economy_died_bumper_sticker-128901488261188641?rf=238436101452226845
A bumper sticker I just made on Zazzle that pretty much sums up what is happening with the economy.
Jason S (#25), The legislators have come back from their districts have got an earful from their constituents (aside from the phone/e-mail meltdown in DC on the same subject plus Cap & Trade); the Democrats are scared & rightly so. This is why the Blue Dog Democrats have pulled health care off, effectively killing it. However, President Obama does not care about Congressional Democrats. He wants his Universal Health Care like any other dictator in training. The conflict between President Obama & the Congressional Democrats will continue to deepen over time & the Congressional Democrats will peel off from Obama’s radical ideas for their own self-preservation. President Obama’s town halls, speeches, & interviews will all go on deaf ears.
12. Sebastian Shaw: “The disarray comes from the top down since President Obama is not a leader…”
I find that I must disagree with you on this point. Mr. Obama has and is further leading us over “#3 eon’s” proverbial cliff. It is an example of leadership. Tremendously damaging, short-sighted, and poor leadership, but leadership nonetheless.
17. Moogie: “The first, most important “fix” in health coverage needs to be to STOP paying for treatment of illegal aliens.”
I must disagree here. What really needs to happen in the instance of illegal immigrants is: hospitals/doctor’s offices/health departments/et al should go ahead and treat the illegals and keep precise records of their treatments and their origin. Then, the government should compile all of these expenses, add a 50% “processing fee” to the total cost and bill the illegals’ country of origin. I’ll bet you five jelly doughnuts that Mexico would start guarding their border A LOT more closely in such an instance.
regards
Ombama and Congress lied to us and failed on the Stimulus. The Cap and Trade will doom us. I might add no one read the Bill they signed! And now Health Care to pass that will bankrupt America food good. RUSH RUSH Poor leadership and a President who is loving taking down this country while he goes on dates, ballgames, and anything he wants to do on our dime. pretty pathic.
“Health Care Plan? What Health Care Plan?”
This one. http://edlabor.house.gov/blog/2009/07/americas-affordable-health-choices-act.shtml
Great work Democrats. This is exactly what the American people voted for you to do.
* Generous subisides, available to people making up to 400 percent of the poverty line
* Expansion of Medicaid to cover people making less than 133 percent of the poverty line
* Guarantees of solid benefits for everybody, with limits on out-of-pocket spending
* Strong regulation of insurers, including requirements that insurers provide insurance to people with pre-existing conditions without higher rates
* An individual mandate, so that everybody (or what passes for everybody in these discussions) gets into the system and assumes some financial responsibility
* A public plan, one that appears to be strong, although I’ll reserve judgment on that until I hear from the experts
* Choice of public and private plan, at first just for individuals and small businesses, but later for larger businesses and–possibly–eventually for everybody
* Efforts at payment reform, if not necessarily as strong as they could be
* Investment in primary care and prevention, which is not sexy but potentially important for general health .
HonestJon (#28), What I mean is President Obama has allowed Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid to write the bills while he remains passive, just a vessel for his teleprompter; he regularly changes the reasons for socialized health care depending on his audience. Therefore, President Obama is not a leader at all. He is just playing leader as he reads his script from the teleprompter. President Obama cannot lead given he has no executive experience. All the man knows is to campaign. The campaign slogans will grow thick & old & people’s patience with Obama will also grow thick & old like mold. Popularity alone cannot sustain a Presidency when the popularity bubble bursts; it will always burst.
Cap & Trade, Health Care, & Card Check seem to be all doomed. Why? 2010 is around the corner. Porkulus has failed. Unemployment continues to go up every month. President Obama cannot spin his way out from the facts of the situation. The Porkulus Bill will follow Obama out of office & haunt him for quite some time.
Sebastian (#27)-
My guess is that they will resort to the “trigger” which will get all democrats and even a few rinos on board. The trigger will be set to engage at a level that dems can arrange for further down the line, at which point the political responsibility will be much less for them. Remember, liberal democrats are nothing if not sneaky liars.
I also failed to make one point in my previous post: if you notice many of the countries that have remotely successful universal healthcare programs rely on others for their military security. The scandinavian countries for instance, seem to have socialism figured out, but we need to remember that those countries do not have the strategic importance in the world, and therefore do not require the level of military spending that we do here. I would argue that none of these countries would have the luxury of being able to tax and spend like they do if they were already being taxed to support a strong military. In other words, we are providing free universal security for many of our allies, which costs money. Perhaps we could enlist Norway or Canada to foot our healthcare bills if we will continue to provide them security while they have their little socialist experiments? We just don’t have that luxury here – it will break us, no question.
Even the Soviet Union lasted longer than it should have simply because we were exporting our technology to them, technology that was the by-product of lower taxes and greater freedom. Other countries that enjoy freedom on this planet should be nervous that America is about to spend so much money on rationed healthcare and voodoo climatology. Capitalism is owed a debt of gratitude by many who denounce it.
jharp is a racist as proven by his/her comments on another thread on PJM…
“Looks like whitey is a significant cause too. Their rate is nearly twice the Asians.”
Anyone else find the term “whitey” offensive?
Jason s (#32), I don’t think the Democrats will pull any sort of trigger like they did for Porkulus because Porkulus is a failure & an embarrassment to any who voted for it; therefore, health care will remain on life support primarily because the Democrats cannot figure out a way to pay for the terrible bill. People do not want Universal Health Care since we do not want more taxes & substandard health services. The Democrats have effectively made their own obstacles. Fear is guiding the Dems as well given Porkulus is a spectacular failure. As a result, President Obama has become marginalized, politically impotent.
Jason s (#32), I don’t think the Democrats will pull any sort of trigger like they did for Porkulus because Porkulus is a failure & an embarrassment to any who voted for it; therefore, health care will remain on life support primarily because the Democrats cannot figure out a way to pay for the terrible bill. People do not want Universal Health Care since we do not want more taxes & substandard health services. The Democrats have effectively made their own obstacles. Fear is guiding the Dems as well given Porkulus is a spectacular failure. As a result, President Obama has become marginalized, politically impotent.
P.S. – Sorry, forgot to tell you great post!
#35, I’m flattered you think I made a great post, but please refrain from using my pseudonym.
AThinkingPerson:
jharp is a racist as proven by his/her comments on another thread on PJM…
“Looks like whitey is a significant cause too. Their rate is nearly twice the Asians.”
You can call me a racist as long as you please. I could nor care less.
I am thrilled at the tremendous progress by Obama and the Democrats. Thrilled.
I’ll be darned if I’ll let some knuckledragging uneducated redneck troglodyte loser who has nothing but name calling left get me down.
OBAMACARE!
Here’s how you fix health care . . .
1. Limit malpractice claims. It’s just absurd that a GP has to pay $250,000 for malpractice insurance.
2. Allow interstate competition between health insurance companies.
3. More doctors.
4. No more treatment for illegal aliens.
This is great . . . Obamamessiah is running scared. The meltdown has started, and will accelerate at warp speed over the coming months.
2010 is looking better and better. Republicans will gain enough seats to ham string Obamamessiah until 2012.
Things are so bad already, his teleprompter committed suicide the other day.
You saw it . . . after months of being forced to spew Obamamessiah’s lies, it couldn’t take it any more. It had the strength of character to kill itself in front of millions of viewers . . . to this we owe it a debt of gratitude.
Do it the Republican way, just don’t get sick.
Banned by Huffpo:
“Here’s how you fix health care . . .
1. Limit malpractice claims.”
Malpractice insurance is about 1% of health care costs.
And remind me again of what steps George Bush and the republican Congress to fix our broken health care system.
No need to answer. I know the response. They didn’t lift one finger. Congress for 14 years other than to kill Clinton’s plan. And Bush for 8. Not one damn thing was done.
And guess what? You were voted out of office and your opinion doesn’t matter any more. Now you get to simply sit on the sidelines and watch.
jharp 30, sounds brilliant.
#1-3 who’s going to pay for it? oh right, the “rich”. but perhaps they are going to be busy paying for our brand new trillion dollar deficits, creating good jobs with good wages, scrubbing every last bit of carbon out of our atmosphere while providing reliable, low cost sources of energy, …. you know, stuff like that.
#4 sure, i agree that insurers should have to take higher risks without getting compensated. at least that would insure that there wouldn’t be any more health insurers in the future, so that kills two birds with one stone. nice.
#5 since the lower 60% of wage earners in the US don’t pay any taxes, getting everyone to pay up for health insurance looks like a cinch. none of the dem supporters would be expecting any of this to be free, right?
#6 don’t know what that means; i’ll reserve comment
#7 thanks, but no thanks. i’ll stick to the private plan given all of the evidence presented about the effectiveness of other public plans. perfect example of a false choice.
#8 following on the heels of all of the success in Medicare/Medicaid? what have we been waiting for?
#9 i presume that would involve personal responsibility; it takes two to do the preventative care tango, eh? what’s on your list of personal responsibility initiatives that should be included here? can’t wait to hear them. particularly since we have so many people making great lifestyle decisions regarding obesity, alcohol, drugs, out-of-wedlock, single parent births, HIV/STDs…. whew, i’ll stop here.
you sold me! can’t believe that i missed the opportunity to jump on board that train last November.
and 40, “And guess what? You were voted out of office and your opinion doesn’t matter any more.”
Remind me, is that a quote from Jefferson or Madison?
“#5 since the lower 60% of wage earners in the US don’t pay any taxes”
You are a dirty rotten stinkin liar.
My 15 year and 17 year both work and I guarantee they are in the lower 60% of wage earners. One at a bowling alley and the other at a day care center.
And they both pay taxes.
What kind of miserable slime would take the trouble to lie about children who work.
You sicken me.
jharp-
the same cbo that gave you your number estimated that the plan will eventually cover about 10,000,000 additional people. By my count that comes to $100,000 per. Why not just mail a check for $50,000 to each of those 10,000,000 and call it a day? But no, we need an enormous tax-guzzling machine to do what a simple check cannot, which is to centralize even more control in Washington. Are you Obamaphiles completely brain dead? Do you have any ability to pick up a calculator and do the math for yourself?
#36 The REAL Sebastian Shaw: This is why I think PJ needs to start a registration process. Might even help alleviate the troll infestation.
Jason S:
jharp-
the same cbo that gave you your number estimated that the plan will eventually cover about 10,000,000 additional people. By my count that comes to $100,000 per. Why not just mail a check for $50,000 to each of those 10,000,000 and call it a day? But no, we need an enormous tax-guzzling machine to do what a simple check cannot, which is to centralize even more control in Washington. Are you Obamaphiles completely brain dead? Do you have any ability to pick up a calculator and do the math for yourself?
________________________________________________
You are an ignorant buffoon. The proposal was just released today about 3:00 Pm.
Either the CBO is the most efficient organization in the history of the earth or you are a liar.
I’m all in for the latter.
43 Good for your kids and I am very sincere about that.
You can call me a liar, but look at the latest 2006 CBO numbers. Net of credits and other payments, the lower 60% of earners collectively pay 1% of the total income tax burden.
It doesn’t mean that individually some people in this bracket don’t actually pay taxes. So if we’re having a policy debate, you have to look at things in the aggregate. Look it up yourself.
Bend Over America – Here Comes the Donkey!
The Doctor Donkey!
Ouch!
Despite the CBO’s 1 trillion dollar price tag, I still believe health care is on life support; it will cost 5-10 times more than the estimated cost. The Leftists in charge want to scuttle health care along, but the frighted Dems up for re-election need to kill it. Porkulus is already a failure, yet even as Obama says otherwise. Porkulus will also haunt all those who voted for this monstrosity in the 2010 elections. The Dems must answer to their unhappy constituents…
Universal health care is not the answer. Job creation is the answer, yet Obama is doing everything to cripple job creation. It’s madness.
The Senate Committee just passed a version of the Heath Care bill; it is going to the floor. Call your Senators. Melt the phones.
I suspect that one aspect of Col. obama’s health care plan is intended to reduce Social Security and Medicare costs.
As a result of this aspect of his plan (which WILL work as intended), any individual over 66 years of age who is diagnosed with depression or tells their doctor they have severe headaches will be euthanized the following Tuesday afternoon (in alphabetical order).
They will then be given the Hero of the USSA award, posthumously, at the White House, on the national awards ceremony broadcast live and weekly at 8PM EST Wednesdays, for which all domestic television sets will be equipped with a chip preventing the TV from being turned off or the volume being turned down.
This broadcast will further educate the public about the cost savings being spread abroad by the foreign-born precedent.
Of course, the rhetorical question in the headline of the article is useful in understanding his plan: “What Health Care Plan?”
THE LAST THING THIS PLAN IS ABOUT IS CARING ABOUT YOUR HEALTH. If you don’t already know that, you must have voted for obama.
Jharp-
Ever heard of draft legislation? The CBO has been releasing estimates since mid June. In lieu of calling you mean names, here is a reference for you – I was wrong, it will decrease the number of uninsured by 16 million, not 10 million. $62,500 per head. Still a major obstacle when one looks at cost versus benefits, although I am aware that cost makes no difference to you since it is other people’s money (OPM).
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23853.html
50. Sebastian Shaw:
“The Senate Committee just passed a version of the Heath Care bill; it is going to the floor. Call your Senators. Melt the phones.”
Oh we are melting the phones.
The 72% of us who favor passage, that is. Chew on that for awhile.
It’s gonna pass and I am thrilled. And the ramifications are huge. Not only for the vast improvements in coverage and costs but also because it will sink the GOP for decades.
Jason S:
Is this the best you can do? Too funny.
From your link. The date is June 18th, nearly one month ago.
And best yet the CBO evaluated the Senate proposal! It was the House proposal that was released yesterday and blew the obstructionists (GOP) out of the water.
By JULIAN E. ZELIZER | 6/18/09 4:07 AM EDT
“Earlier this week, CBO released preliminary estimates suggesting that the health care proposals — the most ambitious currently under discussion — from the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee”
Forty-nine percent (49%) of U.S. voters now at least somewhat oppose the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats, while 46% at least somewhat favor it, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey.
They’re similarly divided over the urgency for health care reform: 43% say it should move ahead right now, but 44% say reform should wait until the economy gets better.
Can’t find 72% in any of these polls yet; I’ll keep looking
steeple:
“Can’t find 72% in any of these polls yet; I’ll keep looking”
Here you go.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/health/policy/21poll.html
“The national telephone survey, which was conducted from June 12 to 16, found that 72 percent of those questioned supported a government-administered insurance plan — something like Medicare for those under 65 — that would compete for customers with private insurers.”
More good news.
Senate HELP Committee Passes Health Reform Bill
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/07/more_from_the_help_bill.html
Why Obama is a great leader and why I love him as our President.
“In a Rose Garden health care speech this afternoon, President Obama reiterated a couple of key themes–that the House and Senate need to pass (health care)legislation before they break for recess in August, and that the White House isn’t going to keep quiet until that time. “We are going to be continually talking about this(health care) for the next two or three weeks until we’ve got a bill out of the Senate and we’ve got a bill out of the House,” Obama said. “Then we’ll deserve a few weeks rest before we come back and finally get a bill done so we can sign it right here in the Rose Garden.”
jharp…If you, as a racist, are thrilled with the Obama administration, that is definitely very telling.
Here’s how we will all be worked through Obama’s health care nightmare…. (sorry, no way to candycoat this jharp/racist)….
http://docs.house.gov/gopleader/House-Democrats-Health-Plan.pdf
AThinkingPerson:
Pretty funny chart. Thanks for posting.
Getting pretty desperate huh?
It’s gotten so bad that all the GOP can do is make up pretend charts.
It makes me even more confident when this is the best you can do.
Oh, and AThinkingPerson I forgot.
You can go ahead and call me a racist all that you please. I could not care less.
And the next time Clayton E. Cramer blames our high infant mortality rate on black people I will once again very proudly make it be known that the redneck overweight white trash is every bit as much to blame.
Though really it is our horrible health care system that is to blame.
Awfully quiet around here today.
Is that the sound of defeat?
Or are the wingnut talking points not yet released?
C’mon. You can come up something.
I missed Rush and Hannity today. What’s the plan of attack? And don’t tell those gasbags are waving the white flag too. No matter how outrageous, I’m sure they’ll come up with something.
jharp:
As you pointed out, it would be pretty miraculous if the CBO already had something on the bill just released yesterday. Just going by numbers that I’ve seen so far on Democrat healthcare proposals. I haven’t seen any CBO scores yet on the house bill, but the list of “obstructionists” certainly grew with the inclusion of government-funded abortion.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106581890
Lets not forget either that the house passed the cap-and-trade nonsense that is widely expected to be defeated in the senate. I wouldn’t get your hopes up with the midterms coming up so soon.
If the Democrats were serious they’d make proposals to accomplish improvement of healthcare delivery, decreased costs, insurance for the unisurable and truly poor, not just to try and destroy healthcare.
If they were serious they’d consider something like:
1. Require everyone to have healthcare insurance (much like auto insurance).
2. Make healthcare insurance a taxable part of one’s income.
3. After providing proof of continuous insurance for the full year at the time of taxes provide a tax
deduction (either the full amount or a reasonable amount: e.g. $10,000).
4. Provide medical malpractice reform as part of the bill (easiest way is to require loser to pay all
the legal expenses/ malpractice caps although appropriate may not be necessary).
5. Take away the abuses being caused by insurance companies. If the Insurance company refuses to pay the bills to hospitals or physicians, allow healthcare professionals to bill the insured patients and get them to go after the insurance companies.
6. open up the borders to allow patients and employers more choice of healthcare plans.
7. Once competition rules the prices will go down.
8. The proposed penalty of $1000 for not having health insurance is not enough. Just make the uninsured responsible for the whole bill.
As for the uninsured (due to poverty) and the uninsurable I have an elegant solution:
9. Anyone who is below the poverty line and uninsured should be placed on MEDICARE. The cost of the insurance should to these people be non-deductible and income, but will likely have no impact on them as they are afterall in the lowest tax bracket.
We need not break our country at this time.
Yours truly,
The soon to be taxed at 200% level,
Soon to be unemployable,
Doctor T
“the list of “obstructionists” certainly grew with the inclusion of government-funded abortion.”
I knew you could do it.
When all else fails you’ve always got abortion to fall back on. Great job of thinking outside the box.
Never mind that most American’s are pro choice and don’t want to see Roe V Wade overturned.
And hate to break to you buddy, but whatever happens with cap and trade has no bearing whatsoever on health care reform. None. Nada, Zilch Zero. Zip.
DoctorT:
“If the Democrats were serious they’d make proposals to accomplish improvement of healthcare delivery, decreased costs, insurance for the unisurable and truly poor”
They are serious and this is exactly what they are doing.
But the best part of post is here.
“2. Make healthcare insurance a taxable part of one’s income.
3. After providing proof of continuous insurance for the full year at the time of taxes provide a tax deduction (either the full amount or a reasonable amount: e.g. $10,000).”
Great idea. Tax health care insurance and then provide a tax deduction for health insurance.
And just curious how do you tax someone at the 200% level?
Anyways. Thanks for the post. It really made me laugh. Let me guess, you’re a Palin supporter.
Jharp: It is quite telling that you think you are so smart and that we conservatives are so stupid, but you support socialism, and socialism has been a complete failure everywhere it has been tried. So what exactly makes you intelligent? societies based on capitalism have created more wealth and more innovations in science, technology, and medicine. Advances you see in socialized countries come from stealing ideas developed in capitalistic societies. Please, knowing how amazingly intelligent you are, provide a list of some of the more amazing developments that have come out of socialized countries.
Tri Geek:
“Jharp: It is quite telling that you think you are so smart and that we conservatives are so stupid”
It’s not that I think I’m so smart but I do think conservatism is the position of the ignorant. Think about it, womens suffrage, the civil rights act, slavery, prohibition, and especially today with health care reform. The evidence is as plain as the nose on your face. Both in the direction and need. And conservatives are fighting it all the way.
“but you support socialism So what exactly makes you intelligent?”
No. I don’t support socialism. I am an entrepreneur and have been my entire life. I have never worked for anyone other than myself and have never taken a dime from the government nor charity.
I’m no smarter than the next guy. But I am college educated in accounting and have been in the business of international trade for 25 years.
That is where I have gained my knowledge.
jharp: But you support socialize healthcare! By the way, check your history, civil rights were pushed through by conservatives. It was the Dems who attempted to filibuster. (See Al Gore Sr.) Conservatives admire and support independent strong-minded women. Liberal rip these women apart if they don’t follow the liberal template. Conservatives believe in small gov’t and independence. Liberals believe in dependence. As an entrepreneur, you should know better. As an entrepreneur you want the gov’t loading you with rules, regulations (red tape), taxes, fees, tariffs, etc…..? Consevatives want to be free to succeed and free to fail. We don’t like being handcuffed by the gov’t. How does that make us ignorant?
Tri Geek:
“jharp: But you support socialize healthcare!”
No. I don’t. And you obviously don’t even understand what socialized medicine is.
And I don’t like government regulation any more than the staunchest conservative. It is a necessary evil. In my business we just got hit with enough regulation to choke a horse. The banning of phthalates and lead as an example. And yes it caused huge problems and cost everyone money. Yet children are much safer as a result. Much much safer. I simply deal with it.
You seem to be a decent fellow. Turn off Limbaugh and Hannity and Fox and learn for yourself. We’ll all be better off for it.
I forgot to address this.
“By the way, check your history, civil rights were pushed through by conservatives.”
Flat out false. It was liberalism. Though I’ll openly admit it was republican liberals who had much to do with it.
“It was the Dems who attempted to filibuster.”
Yes, true. The southern conservative dixiecrats. Todays conservative republican base.
Gotta buddy like jharp. Thinks he knows it all. He puffs out and throws out insults left and right – especially when he has nothing to say. We laugh at his inane BS and ignore him when he tries to filibuster. You cannot have a serious debate with him without him making an ass of himself. We get him going for fun sometimes. Despite it all, we love the knucklehead. God knows why.
Jharp: Here is a question for you- Why do you assume conservatives can not think for themselves? That whole “turn off Hannity, Rush, Fox” crap? By saying that, you are admitting that their are only a few consevative voices out there. How about liberals turning off NPR, PBS, All major networks, Hollywood, all major universities, the teachers unions, and on and on. Yet somehow you think we are the brain dead followers. How easy is it to be liberal in this country, when everything we hear all day long is liberal leaning. Conservatives have to think for themselves. Yet Liberals always like to portray us as the dupes. It reminds me of the time I was in the Harajiku district in Tokyo (were all the young kids hang out), and I commented that everyone was wearing black and white clothing, and it was explained to me that that was the “individual look”. Funny how everybody was trying to look individual while dressing alike. This is pure Liberal thinking. They laughed at me because was dressed differently, but in fact I was the only one who was an individual.
Jharp: Sorry I couldn’t wait around for your response, I am off for a long swim and bike ride.
jharp:
Did your accounting curricula not require any econ? My finance degree did and this healthcare bill will become more and more expensive until one day we have to pull the rug out from under 300 million Americans (see California’s brutal spending cuts that are about to take place). That won’t be good for your party, I promise. Does it concern you that Canadians are now trying to privatize their healthcare system because of the boondoggle it has become? The Swedes are also enjoying the decreased tax burden of privatising health care. This is a global economy now which is why Obama’s protectionism will fail us as well. And as I pointed out earlier, these countries also have an advantage due to the large amount of military support we give them for free just by our existence. I promise you many Europeans are praying that we don’t dive into socialized healthcare.
Tri Geek:
“Jharp: Here is a question for you- Why do you assume conservatives can not think for themselves?”
Because they do nothing but spew the same lies as Limbaugh, Hannity, Fox, Boortz, Beck, Savage, Ingraham, Liddy, OReilly, Doocy, Kilmead, Hume, Kristol, Will, Buchanon, Bozell, Goldberg, Goldfarb, Hewitt, Malkin, Coulter, Scarborough, Tapper, Kudlow, Derbyshire, McCarthy, Sowell, Lowry, etc.
I’m perfectly willing to listen to new conservative ideas. It’s only there aren’t any.
And health care reform is a textbook example. Nothing from conservatives.
Absolutely nothing for 14 years. Other than shooting down Clinton’s plan to actually help the middle class with health care.
Are you still glad that you voted for Obama?
Paul -Indiana:
“Are you still glad that you voted for Obama?”
Could not be gladder. Even if the health care reform isn’t exactly as I’d like it to be.
Remind me again what Bush and the republicans did to fix our health care system.
jharp:
Any comments in light of the new CBO conclusions released today? Didn’t think so. Hint: The square peg doesn’t fit into the round hole.
I am with jharp in this one, at least something is proposed. I don’t support the healthcare plan as it doesn’t do anything to simplify things. Malpractice insurance is an issue. The insurance companies practicing medicine without a license should be an issue as well. When you are in profit and death is a preferred result to paying claims where do you draw an ethical line. For profit companies can’t be given that task.
I say go for the single payer system and include malpractice as part of the plan. Let doctors take care of their patients. Make wellness the preferred goal. Too much is spent on stage IV cases of cancer where at early onset is simple and cheap with high level of survivability.
The simpler the solution the better the result. Government should be able to do this for its population. Health care, not profit retention. Think about it. Medical records all in one place. Hospitals only worry about taking care of people and providing records back to the payer. It has to be an economy of scale that will work. Right now everyone is trying to be everything and they are all failing and the people driving the boat are concerned more with $$$ than saving lives. I don’t blame them, it is how a business is supposed to run. I just don’t think our health care is best provided by private for profit insurance companies.
Obama’s swap over to health insurance “reform” will boil away to nothing. Follow the money. Keep it simple. What are we trying to achieve here? Healthy Americans. Keep that the goal and keep shooting for the target. I do believe that Obama is a driving force that can get us where we really want to go. I just don’t trust that there are enough intelligent people here to actually keep our eyes on the goal and not make a grab for the gobs of money between now and then.
Prove me wrong America. I am insured, can afford insurance and know what I really get when I spend the $$$ on something that has so many loopholes and outs that it insures nothing.