HBO Presents: Conservatives as Ignorant Racists Who Cling to God and Guns
The conservative reaction to Sen. Barack Obama’s presidential victory proved surprisingly tame in many circles. Popular talk show hosts like Hugh Hewitt and right-of-center blog sites such as Instapundit weren’t thrilled, to put it mildly.
But they echoed the thoughts of many sober conservatives when they accepted the people’s choice and, in their own way, celebrated the ascension of a man of color to the country’s highest office.
They loved their country as much on Nov. 5 as they did the previous day.
Of course, not everyone was in such a charitable mood as it became clear Obama’s lead wouldn’t go away. And those are the folks documentary filmmaker Alexandra Pelosi sought out for her new HBO program Right America: Feeling Wronged: Some Voices from the Campaign Trail.
The documentary, debuting tonight at 8 p.m. EST, captures the very worst elements of those who climbed aboard Sen. John McCain’s Straight Talk Express.
Close your eyes for a moment. What kind of documentary would you expect given the subject matter and the filmmaker (Pelosi is the daughter of Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi)?
If you said the film would show conservatives as ignorant, racist, hateful folk who genuinely cling to God and guns, give yourself a prize. Bonus points go for those who predicted the film would characterize McCain/Palin rallies as hate events.
You wanna see hate? Check out the next anti-war march. Yikes.
Pelosi, who has displayed an ability to walk an unbiased line with documentaries like Journeys with George and, most recently, The Trials of Ted Haggard, lets her ideological flag fly this time ’round. She also proves incapable of revealing some inner truths about her subject matters, something that hurt her Haggard piece as well.
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Her camera hones in on more than a few bona fide morons. What could we possibly learn from them? And while their inclusion here does ramp up the entertainment value, it does little to add to the project’s theme — are we living in a truly divided country?
It also must be said that Pelosi didn’t conjure up her interview subjects from some Media Matters laboratory. The right clearly contains supporters who embrace ugly views, from naked racism to an inability to see beyond their own backyards.
But Pelosi frames her documentary in the most unflattering light possible — as often as possible. Close-ups of older women cheering their hearts out, their saggy arms flapping along with them. Bigots, some clearly intoxicated, proud of their gross statements.
Interview-driven documentaries can be the most susceptible to bias. Take your camera and point it toward someone you think will reflect the tone you hope to achieve. See that guy in the mock turtleneck and argyle socks? No way he’s gonna talk about Sen. Obama’s Muslim faith or socialist ties. But that portly fellow with the unkempt hair and five o’clock shadow, he might just work.
That’s mostly what you see in Right America. Pelosi quizzes NASCAR devotees, self-described rednecks, and others to get their views about Sen. McCain’s race for the White House.
Her camera focuses hard on one silver-haired loon who speaks in double negatives and is proud of his racism. He represents a segment of the right which should be exposed, frankly. Conservatives need to know these people exist in their party and do what can be done to change their minds, or at least keep a safe distance from them. Neither party should embrace such stupidity.
But the documentary also finds time for a mild-mannered man who claims Obama is the devil. Literally. And Pelosi delights in quizzing an addled teen about the actual meaning of socialism when it’s clear he has no idea what he’s talking about.
It’s a brand of gotcha journalism, and like Bill Maher’s recent film Religulous amounts to a cheap shot when your subjects can’t defend themselves.
Right America does pack some quieter moments which speak to bigger truths. One woman bemoans how the media treats Gov. Sarah Palin like a freak, even though the Alaskan Republican lives a life just like hers. McCain supporters decry their candidate’s unfavorable news coverage. Fox News’ Carl Cameron offers a valid assessment of why reporters turned on McCain, who once got the royal treatment from them for sticking it to his GOP colleagues.
And it’s a hoot to watch one of Newsweek‘s resident lefties, Jonathan Alter, kiss up to Katie Couric and then as soon as she leaves regret his behavior. It’s the kind of unguarded moment we see too infrequently here.
Pelosi could do her HBO audience a favor by repeating this stunt four years from now. How about documenting the seamier side of the Obama re-election campaign?
Don’t hold your breath waiting for Pelosi, or any other documentarian, to so much as suggest such a project.
CT,
The left has been pointing out these loons for some time. I’m not shocked if a massive electoral loss and a lefty documentary open some eyes.
Ah, but that is the point. These subjects are not defensible. It’s not really a cheap shot to point out that your opponent does not have a leg to stand on – just brutal honesty.
Peace.
DS
The saying that truth is first casualty of war can now be applied to the cultural/political struggle going on for the hearts and minds of the Western World. The lies and half truths of Ms. Pelosis’s faux documentary are part and parcel of most of the world’s news services, and certainly provide the fodder for America’s mainstream media. The only difference between the ranting of Ms. Pelosi and her counterparts in Europe/Eurabia is the rabid European anti Semitism which is getting as bad now as it was in the 1930′s.
David S.,
If it’s not a cheap shot to point out the indefensible, why did the left cry foul when Rev. Wright’s racist tirades were pointed out?
Why is the rampant disregard for the rule of law by Obama’s cabinet nominations tolerated? If I didn’t pay taxes for years, I’d have to pay interest and probably get thrown in jail; If Rep. Rangel and our new Treasury Secretary do it, nothing happens.
Why was dissent the highest form of patriotism for the last 8 years, but now consent is?
Why is it brutal honesty to claim that the Republican party is the party of racism and hate when it is the Democratic party that has a former Kleagle and Exalted Cyclops in the Senate?
“It’s not really a cheap shot to point out that your opponent does not have a leg to stand on – just brutal honesty”
If that’s the case, and I agree, then I’m sure you’d support the idea of the creator of the Zombietime website doing a similarly narrow documentary for HBO to show people he feels are “representative” of the mainstream liberal left during the re-election campaign?
Thought not.
The Republican Party was founded as the free state party to prevent the spread of slavery, and, under Abraham Lincoln, the first Republican president, slavery was abolished, and the 13th, 14th, and 15 amendments to the U.S. Constitution were passed. The Republican Party always supported civil rights; it was the southern Democrats who supported racial segregation. (And it was the southern gentleman from Virginia who introduced Jim Crow into the Civil Service when he was president, the Democrat Woodrow Wilson.)
The name, ‘Alexandra’ I’d envision an attractive, well spoken, traveled, sophisticated woman. Thanks for dashing that dream. By all means Alexandra, you should go by ‘Aly’ or ‘Alex.’
If the pic for this article is truly Nancy Pelosi’s daughter, man is she UGLY! More so than her mother, if that’s possible. She looks like the creation of Michael Moore and Nancy Pelosi.. Hey wait. You don’t suppose..?
The same shoulder padded suit. The dull, hair helmet.
See what happens Madame Speaker when your daughter’s not asked out, well.. ever. I don’t think Nancy’s botox supply can help her.. sigh.
NOthing suprising. I wouldnt waste my time watching such garbage, and will keep this in mind the next time I am asked if I want an HBO subscription. I am not going to pay for crap like that.
I’ve had just about enough of paying premium price for HBO’s leftwing pabulum. Since their programming has declined in quality it shouldn’t be hard to cut them out of my budget and let them know why. Anyone else up for a boycott of HBO? [Home Box Obama]
HMMMMMMM…..
Could it be that Ms. Pelosi is in bed with the disingenuous Michael Moore ? “Birds of a feather” perhaps ?
This is what happens when, through complacency, we permit the public education system to become more about indoctrination and socialization than about logic, reason and critical analysis. Alexandra Pelosi is another example of the leftist mind seeing only what it wants to see in seeking reinforcement of their learned prejudices. Rather than letting discovery lead to a conclusion, they start with a conclusion and look to justify it. It is a thoroughly dishonest endeavor.
The Leftist mentality is fundamentally flawed at its core. It starting premise it that some people can dictate to other people how to live their lives. Everything that follows after that is rationalization for their totalitarian instincts.
I have given up on hoping for any honesty out of Leftists. How can I expect honesty from them when than are unable to be honest with themselves? They are control freaks. ‘Live and let live’ is not part of their program. They are little more than petty tyrants.
No news here. Move along.
Lefty films are identifiable as lefty films because they take the worst of the political opponents and argue that these are mainstream. This is how it is that even denizens here believe that the average republican is deeply religious; the nightly news has for years been doing the exact same thing: interviewing the worst of the drooling retards and treating them as if they’re typical.
This is now so entrenched that I’m quite positive that David S there *knows* the avg republican is a bible thumper of some variety, and most of you who are reading this *know* similar things. (Obviously, propaganda works.)
And yet sociodemographic data suggests that under 20% of the republican party view themselves as evangelical types or otherwise as christians where religion is _the_ prime influence.
When you let Alexandra there frame the debate, folks, you have the deck stacked against you from the getgo. You have to go uphill merely to prove that the avg republican isn’t some sort of drooling imbecile. I know plenty of young people who grew up listening unknowingly to propaganda and yes, they DO firmly believe that the avg republican is pretty much as Pelosi the Younger portrays.
Yea; What do you expect from the Pelosi school of ignorance. This is like the witch on a witch hunt. Pelosi sympathizers are here, too. Give a glance at David S. Another comfortably misinformed troll.
“her counterparts in Europe/Eurabia is the rabid European anti Semitism which is getting as bad now as it was in the 1930’s.”
Néanmoins, en France, c’est l’extrême gauche à l’origine, qui porte l’accusation, plus encore que les staliniens, pourtant zélés, et alors que l’extrême droite française est, quant à elle, massivement pro-israélienne.
nonetheless, in France the extreme left is at the origin, that bears the acusation, more than the marxists, though zealous, while the extreme french right is fully pro-Israel
extrem right, ~5%
Les soutiens aux Palestiniens comme ceux d’Israël doivent en finir avec cette pose qui consiste à se saisir de la Seconde Guerre mondiale. Il n’y a ici nul nouveau nazi, ni le Hamas ni Tsahal n’étant comparables au phénomène national-socialiste.
The supporters to the Palestinians as well to Israel must stop their rethoric about WW2, there isn’t new nazi parti, neither Hamas nor Israel can be compared to the national socialism phenomenon.
Nicholas Lebourg, Historian
http://www.rue89.com/2009/02/16/israel-palestine-jerusalem-n-est-pas-nuremberg
Si 31% estiment que les juifs sont “en grande partie” ou au moins “un peu” responsables de la crise économique mondiale, ce chiffre varie largement d’un pays à l’autre: c’est en Hongrie que cette opinion est la plus forte avec 46%, devant l’Autriche (43%), la Pologne (38%), l’Allemagne (30%), l’Espagne (25%), la Grande-Bretagne (16%) et la France (15%).
if 31% think that the Jews are soewhat responsible of the global economy crisis, the numbers differ frome one country to another. It’s in Hongary that this opinion is the strongest, before Austria, Poland, Germany, Spain, UK and France !!! (uh oh, got to mark that France is last in the rate, though we have the biggest muslim population)
Canadian press
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5iVmASXr_TsjDZbWbBQ2JRW6CmPlg
forgot to mention : extreme left ~5 % too
“He represents a segment of the right which should be exposed, frankly”
Really? Why is that, exactly?
Do you think he’ll change if he sees himself on TV? Do you want him thrown in jail? What?
I am frightened by people who make such statements.
Everyone know that the neo-cons oppose free-thinking, gay marriage, science and evolution. President Obama is proof that humanity can rise above its worst aspects.
Can you imagine what it must be like to have Jezebel for a mother?
#16 LeftWingandBrave
Ahhh, yes. Thanks for making my point. “Everyone knows” indeed.
We must remember that the fruit don’t fall far from the tree.One nut begets another nut.
I dont even watch this wretched HBO its too darn liberal and is too crappy with its NOT NECCASARALY THE NEWS and BRAIN GAMES its all a lot of liberal crap not worth rotting your brains over
#6 Paul_unalaska:
That’s uncalled for. Critique her filmaking and her bias, don’t attack the way she looks.
It could have been worse. Pelosi could have interviewed the typical PJM thread commenter and made Republicans look really dumb and mean-spirited. Hi paul_unalaska.
Here’s an idea for a documentary that Alexandra Pelosi can do: Children of Democratic politicians who have unfair advantages because of their powerful parents.
Most folks I talk too just shake their heads and say “I don’t care who is President” These folks see all party’s as the same pile of crap and dang it the stuff won’t come off their shoes!
ad hominem attacks are what lefties do well. Boris are you a typical pjm thread commenter? i have seen you post regularly, i don’t want to assume anything.
leftwing: Obama has shown proof of nothing yet, you mean to tell me he is the example of humanity rising, well move over mother Teresa.
Anybody wanting to make a documentary to reinforce a stereotype can go out and find what they need by interviewing a buttload of people, then editing where required.
Besides being documentary #1,001 attempting to paint the typical Republican and/or conservative as the redneck NASCAR fan, concealed-weapon holder, this train wreck will add nothing new to the national dialogue. The fact the name Pelosi attached to it should make that all the more obvious.
If Ms. Alex wanted to really reinforce the idea of how ignorant the American voting public has become, she wouldn’t need to leave the living room of the home she was raised for documented proof.
To AP regarding comment #21 – It is absolutely fair game to criticize her looks. Let’s be honest, not only would this excuse for a “documentary” never have been made if her last name was not Pelosi, she is also clearly a beast. I know the thumbnail sketch is small, but at first I thought somebody had hacked in and inserted a picture of something incredibly rude.
The left has made a very fine living promoting, advertising, and running for office on racism for better than 50 years. Short of that, the issue died decades ago. Would Jesse and Al have had to work for a living absent this fanatical obsession of the left with race? This woman’s opinion is a joke. Apparently, she and San-Fran-Gran-Nan’s view on abortion and the Holy See come from the same “whole cloth.”
16. LeftWingandBrave:
Being a troll is bad form. I sincerely hope you are just trying to get a rise out of people, because being so sincerely delusional is hard to imagine. By the way, I hold two Masters in science fields, and my adviser for the first degree was much more conservative than I. He has a Ph.D in Biochemistry now and is a leading researcher in protein-membrane interaction.
Wow! She’s almost as pretty as her mom!
Hey, Boris! While you’re here I’m still waiting for you to get back to me with your irrefutable evidence of catastrophic man-made global warming.
Don’t think I’ve forgotten.
@11. G Alston:
It’s not that the average Republican is necessarily a bible thumper, but that the bible thumpers have been courted so heavily by the GOP. The statistics bear this out.
“In 2004, white evangelical or born-again Christians made up a quarter of the electorate, and 78 percent of them voted Republican, according to exit polls.”
A little napkin math makes it clear that nearly 40% of Republican voters in 2004 were white evangelicals. So it’s not so crazy to make this association.
The way to dispel this myth is for the GOP to stop pandering to the evangelical voter. So long as the GOP is actively seeking the support of drooling imbeciles (and nominating them for office), this vision of the GOP will be hard to shake.
Peace.
DS
@LeftWingandBrave’s “Obama is proof that humanity can rise above its worst aspects”
Obama is proof that humanity’s worst aspects have more money than God.
She’s no Janet Huckabee.
26 Tex Taylor . . . Funny, I don’t remember any outrage over John Zeigler and his freshman poli-sci project . . . How Obama Got Elected. Fox News and talk radio were virtual PR agencies for this bozo when he was “interviewing a buttload of people, then editing where required.” Accept them both or reject them both. Pick a principle and stand on it. You can’t have it both ways.
“Everyone know that the neo-cons oppose free-thinking, gay marriage, science and evolution. President Obama is proof that humanity can rise above its worst aspects.”
No…President Obama is proof that, when the economy sucks and we’re in an unpopular war, Americans will vote in the candidate of the other party. Happens all the time.
Visual influences are overwhelmingly stronger than text, and tend to easily cling in the brain nuclei of humans that are weaker in ‘text’. Those that understand this process, use it to their advantage. Hollywood is overwhelmingly a Union dominated organization with an intense communistic driven Leftist agenda. Hollywood is exclusive of nearly all competition from any source of actual disagreement in their agenda driven philosophy. Any other logical opinion is ‘shunned’ (as they are happy to divulge about certain religious sects). Hollywood’s philosophy is in actuality ‘A Religion’ that is totally intolerant to any other opinion. With the rate of Illiteracy rising in the USA, despite massive taxpayer funding, ‘Visual’ information will become overwhelmingly dominant. Bible Prophecy, in text once denounced as total fiction by many, will easily become fulfilled. ‘DaFlikkers’
#9 J. Pinkreton Soopington . . . I’m on to your game.
Well considering that I own guns, voted for McCain, have a BA and am working on an MA in history how on earth does Nans’ daughter square that?
The left will take anything they can and lie and distort in order to make people think something. Of course these stereotypes are not true. The biggest mistake Alexandras and Nans make is generalizing. This will be their ultimate undoing.
“Everyone know that the neo-cons oppose free-thinking, gay marriage, science and evolution. President Obama is proof that humanity can rise above its worst aspects.”
Really? I think Obama merely is a bigger symptom of what is wrong with the American left. He won a pyrric victory last week. THe three Senators who voted with him are the most reviled three people in the GOP. He has had a really poor cabinet vetting. What an awesome guy. And talking down the economy? Thats what Carter did. I seem to remember then Carter got his lunch handed to him by a former Governor from the West. Hmmmmm…but hey you live in your land of illusion. You leftist seem to need them. And let us know when Obama pays your mortgage and buys you a years supply of Ethanol.
They held this stereotype of conservatives way back in the day when I was a Leftist (1977-1987). This is nothing new. What a documentary like this is trying to do is to reach the under-30 audience, Obama’s core constituency (based on demographics of the voting patterns and the sheer numbers + single, white females)and make sure that they STAY in the Leftist camp. I haven’t seen the “documentary” and do not subscribe to HBO. I plan on not see it.
It’s interesting that this agitprop is appearing right at the moment when we are just seeing the very beginnings of disillusionment with the new socialist Messiah. This is spin and damage control. I don’t recognize the features of the stereotypes either within myself or the people I know who are conservatives. One can always find the truly exceptional nut jobs and editorialize about them in such a way as to convey the false impression that they represent the mainstream of conservatives.
This is an old page from Alinsky Rules for Radicals – an old Communist agitprop trick. These people have not changed one iota from the days when I was an academic Marxist. They were doing this to Reagan supporters back in the day when I was on the other side (for the record, I didn’t participate in any of this inaccurate stereotyping).
Right now the Left is terrified that the young people will grow disillusioned with socialist ideology and begin to drift over to the other side. Just like I did.
36. blogengeezer:
Not true that the movies are commie . . . Kirk Cameron has a new “flick” coming out that’s all about love and family and firefighters and our Lord and Savior jesus Christ. I don’t know why we don’t see more of these family “flicks”, like what the Mormons are producing these days. Maybe it’s because they’re one-dimensional? Predictable? Boring? Corny? No, that can’t be it.
Why should we expect anything less…she’s the daughter of a far-left conservative hater, the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. Obama attends a church with a hate mongering “minister” preaching the most vile things possible from a PULPIT, and of course NoBama hasn’t a clue!!! The media didn’t touch that because admitting Obama new about it would show he was a believer in what he heard on Sunday mornings, but WE are the bad guys. If it wasn’t so disgusting it would almost be funny. There is bad in both parties….at least we don’t have a real “former” KKK clan member in our party!
Anyone watch the recently broadcast 13 by NBC? Talk about demonizing conservatives. The MSM is engaged in a full bore attack on the right. Stand by for more to come. Nothing like this since Europe in the 30′s.
42. Kat . .. no, but you do have a rich privileged white boy who used nooses as “decor” in his senate office and, as a young man, went deer hunting and cut off a deer’s head and stuffed in a black family’s mail box . . . If it wasn’t so disgusting it would almost be funny.
I guess that makes your apple tree daddy an ignorant redneck. Sorry, I didn’t mean that, I know better.
41 Kat:
Kat,
You have quite a few RACIALISTS comments in your rant-
Now that we have change in our government we hope to take people like you to a re-educational site, after you lose your job,
and let you work off some of this hatred.
You will live in an environmentally safe commune with other Conservative but Ignorant Racists Who Cling to God but no Guns Allowed.
You will
Grow your own tomatoes and hunt for environmentally safe game.
-Whatever the hell that is?
I guess club rabbits inside the fence.
But it will be an environmentally safe Utopia, and we can grow and smoke our own weeds.
Loud Speakers Blaring-
Resistance is Futile-
Work IF YOU Want Freedom.
There is only one Allah-
and Obama is his messenger.
Hope you like tomatoes?
leftwingbrave and others,
Talk about stereotypes,
I know all about them and how they work. Leftwingbrave states: “Everyone know that the neo-cons oppose free-thinking, gay marriage, science and evolution. President Obama is proof that humanity can rise above its worst aspects.”
And I won’t quote all the right wing stereotypes of leftists because don’t have room here.
I am a leftist, a leftist who is a believer in Jesus Christ [and no longer will hide that], a leftist is concurs with many but NOT ALL theories of Marx, Lenin, as well as I concur with theories but NOT ALL of Hayek, Western political philosophy and so forth.
I am anarcho-communal-with respect to autonomy/individualism-for example of individuals working together, I like to refer to the Amish]libertarian and feminist AND VERY ANTI-AUTHORITARIAN.
I AM VERY, VERY ANTI-DHIMMITUDE AND VERY IN ALL FORMS OPPOSED TO SHARIA LAW AND CULTURAL RELATIVISM AND APOLOGETICS TO ANY FORM OF SLAVERY AND MISOGYNY. And have taken my persecution as a result of standing UP TO LEFTISTS WHO BETRAY THE VERY PRINCIPLES THEY SO CLAIM, ESPECIALLY ON THE ISSUE OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND THEIR COMPROMISE, HELL, SELLING OUT TO TYRANNY, DESPOTISM AND THEOCRATIC TOTALITARIANISM AND THE WORST FORMS OF MISOGYNY THAT MAKE 12TH CENTURY FEUDALISM LOOK LIBERAL.
I teach my children Both Creationalism and the theories of Evolution, as comparisons as well as critiques AND though I reject the Darwin ideology/theory I do not reject all the biological and scientific evolutionary process as far as botany and animal evolution is concerned, I don’t accept them all either as gospel truth simply because
[contrary to the narrow mind], no scientist has PROVEN where we come from or how, evolution is a THEORY, not proven fact, its impossible unless one can go back and BE THERE, there is just no way, so to rule evolution as gospel truth is not what I would call either logical or open minded. To say the least–to God one day for us for Him is like a million years, so whose to say. I choose faith and believe universe, diversity of this planet, and love just in themselves, leave room for doubt for the ‘scientific explanations’ that tend to want to ‘do away with God’ AND to justify hierarchy, oppression, and genocide.
I do not support Obama or this TOTALITARIAN regime [and don't even get me Started with Pelosi, whom I name "Boziya". [Herodias's daughter] nor did I vote for him.
IF you want to take this, leftwingand brave, the fact that even Lenin himself would oppose strongly so much of the left today, I could sit here and talk circles around you. The left I can tell you is digging their own grave, if Stalin, the man of steel [and butcher of peasants and proletariats couldn't with the militarized machine he had, the Soviets, keep under the theocratic socialism that was a very real threat AND that for your information, butchered those communists and socialists who tried to implement women's rights in those blocs, if Stalin with his machinery couldn't roll it back/and keep it under even With force,
how in the Hell do you think a liberal weak relativist Bourgeoisie left [globally including ole Castro] is going to be able to do it? The compromises will be the death of you leftists, you are flat out numbered, even if, you succeed in destroying the west and western democracy–as is the goal correct? IF you succeeded, a socialist utopia [which we know it isn't] world is the last thing that would result,
hell it wouldn’t even be anything like Soviet in nature…or Maoist, no, what you will wind up with is a GLOBAL CALIPHATE IRANIAN TYPE OF RULE
and guess whose heads [you know after all of us who don't swallow the 'utility of myth/lie' the left is shoving down our throats today' are going to roll?
YOURS and all the Pelosi's and socialists/communists who in their refusal to even see flaws in their own logic, or see the reality of what is going on in every single nation where Islamism is taking over, who are in their stupidity using or think they are using [pssst, little hint comrade, its the other way around] the Islamists to get that world wide international socialist order in place–
oh, it will be socialist alright, socialist that it will make Stalin’s serfdom with a gun/and capitalism for those on top [that pyramid of politiburo] look tame,
talk about supporting SLAVERY. The left is so deluded its just beyond reasoning,
and here you say neoconservatives are narrow minded???????
I may not agree with a LOT that conservatives say or think but I’ll tell you this,
as one who has studied across the board [and was a far left party member for years] I can promise you this,
what is happening in America and in our world today is no reason to celebrate because deliverance you won’t see,
not from imperialism, not from slavery [wage slavery included], not from despotism and damn sure not from hierarchy. The biggest LIE ever told to the peasant and working class is the lie of socialism,
NOT that the struggle against elitist oppression in itself was bad, no, or the struggle against the oppression that results by the monopoly of resources, no,
but the Fact that some very clever ‘elites’ saw the real threat of a consciousness by those at the bottom of the pyramid and took a theory [several] and molded them into the most clever tool to use the Poor as their fodder, promising them deliverance from hierarchy, in equality, injustice, and using That misery and That rightly so, rage,
using That energy and steering the masses into propping up a far worse imperialism, slavery and reverting back to a serfdom/feudalism with not the church at the center but the scientific [Bakunin warned] elite, eugenics, yes, Darwinism, neatly covered with ‘concern for those poor because you know the debased of humanity just Has to be ‘controlled’ wouldn’t want real equality,
in other words, socialism/communism was neatly used by those mobile middle class to see to it that the pyramid would be secure with them on top. And of course, with absolutely NO LIBERTY, NO DEMOCRACY you name it,
no chance of even Having a consciousness because they controlled all access to information, they not only own your labor they own your soul.
Because you know they don’t believe you Have a soul, etc.
Its no coincidence that Hegel could go right or left, that socialism can be utilized by Nazi’s or Stalinists OR Islamists. Of all they reject the Gospel of Christ [you know, "there is no greek nor jew, male or female, all are equal in Christ Jesus",Gal3:28]
why they Hate that, now don’t they? And what clever means than for socialist/communists [who betray even the principles of Marx, never Has been WORKER'S OWNING MEANS OF PRODUCTION...UH LIKE DUH, IT SUPPOSED TO BE WORKER'S, NOT GOVERNMENTS--THAT SHOULD BE A CLUE, DUH DUH DUH],
but what clever means for a totalitarian ideology [or ideologies finding that the spirit of freedom can't be so easily destroyed, as they are finding even in Iran after two generations and they Still revolt against the suffocation of slavery and when the Soviets AND Chinese realized the more you suppress faith the stronger it grows, remember the fall, they chanted GOD, GOD, GIVE US GOD and the earth shook [80s],
so what clever means than to choose a ‘liturgy’ of death and hatred and subjugation, of course, never Mind that in Indonesia, the Islamists slaughtered HOW MANY SOCIALISTS AND COMMUNISTS IN A MATTER OF WEEKS? [pssst, give you one clue there, since you know, you leftists are So open minded do some research, while you're at it, do some research on Obama's link to Indonesia]
To terrorize the masses and to assure SLAVERY? And on a global level?
But oh, I see, any who can Think outside the ‘box’ are narrow minded, gun totin arm flapping rednecks [which btw, is a classist and prejudicial stereotype against the Poor and Working Class, you know, that working class that the left is supposed to be leading into the promised land]
Got news for you mr/ms leftist, from another Leftist to another,
you won’t own nothing, not your means of production, not your mind, not your dreams, nothing,
because you have bought into the lie of selling yourself to a magistrate and OPIATE much worse than the capitalist/imperialist system, far far worse.
Do not be so quick and haste to scoff at liberty and democracy [though I would say to the right, you lost, or we lost liberty the day liberty became about protecting the pyramid/property, that remnant of feudalist elitism/monarchy, that remnant, over liberty for liberty's sake so yes, the right is just as responsible but no matter how much you say this they'll never see it...]
stubborness and stiff necks come in all shapes.
Pelosi and those in power are going to be worse than the EU, mark my words. And to end this, no, I’m not Christian Identity, not Nazi, whatsoever,
am pro-Israel/two state solution, pro-secular law with freedom of religion/faith, Very Human Rights and very Anti-UN [useless nations cult],
and yes, very anti-capitalist because I do not believe in Any decree that oppresses or creates poverty [Isaiah, James, Jeremiah, the entire Bible…esp Samuel, where God warned, what happens when you give yourself over to a King to rule over you. I just don’t buy into the serfdom with a gun solution either…
you can’t force love, or equality. Any regime that says they can–is a lie. History clearly shows the evidence of this fact. Nor can you force equality through the system of Nero either. But ah,
that’s right, looking to solutions other than man’s well, now, that’s just narrow minded right?
janedoethreads
@ 4 Hazlitt
My thoughts exactly. A two hour HBO documentary composed entirely of photos taken by zombie.
So far I’ve learned that all Republicans are rednecks, racists, and biblehuggers and all Democrats are traitors, cowards, and communists.
It all becomes clear now.
Marie Claude
I tried to text you another off color suggestive remark. You know the censored me. Again!
Your information is eye opening. Good work!
Let’s get into the closet together again.
Janedoe
I might not agree with everything you said; but, it was beautiful. What a breath of fresh air. Please keep it up. We need your perspective.
Marie Claude
Don’t get jealous, you’re still my girl.
one of you own and fear obama…you’re both typical libs….if you voted against BHO or disagree with him on ANYTHING you’re (as Josil) a racits, redneck, communist, in otherwords ALL THINGS evil! The hypocrasy of you libs is never surprising!!! Go ahead live in your dream world….you’re “messiah” will disappoint you, don’t worry, it’s just a matter of time. Oh, and my brother-in-law who is bi-racial, and my sister-in-law who is Korean born DIDN”T vote for the Obamanation….just so ya know.
josil…love your post! It cuts through all the crap and gives a credible perspective.
as Josil said…a racist, ect….sorry Josil for the mixup!!
“The right clearly contains supporters who embrace ugly views, from naked racism to an inability to see beyond their own backyards.”
So does the left.
When the left demonizes the right they are speaking truth to power. When the right shows the true colors of leftists, they are being mean spirited, racist, homophobic, sexist, and any and all other possible derogatory adjectives, all leveled and intended to silence them for daring to point out the obvious. Look at David S’s comment for proof.
For enlightened and well meaning people – their words, not mine, mind you – these leftists sure hold more than just contempt for those that do not agree with them. That’s why leftists think denying them their vote or opening up re-education camps for these people are cool things. These are the 25-30 million people Ayers is talking about killing of to advance the revolution.
Remember that collectivists and their ideology are responsible or the death of hundreds of millions, and the enslavement of sever al billion people in just the last century. And they are not done yet it seems. The question to ask is how a documentary like this from the right would have been recieved. Would HBO even be showing it?
Here is what’s wrong with our thinking. The gays compromise 5% of our community. Obama won by that margin. All the gays want is to be married and left alone. I’d give them that and welcome them into the Republican party. Believe me I’d rather have them than: Pelosi, Obama, Powers etc.
I remember when Pelosi was made Speaker of the House. What I saw was the most dangerous person in America. Right now its a toss up between Obama and Pelosi.
@55. AlexinCT:
When the right is being mean spirited, racist, homophobic and sexist, it is hard to take their criticism of the left at face value. Take some advice from Christian Toto and stop defending bigotry if you want to be taken seriously.
It is not collectivism that is dangerous – it is totalitarians, who mostly heil from the far right fringe. The left believes in liberty, fairness and equality. It is the theocratic mindset that makes possible the killings you describe – a mindset in tune with the right, and fundamentally at odds with the left.
Peace.
DS
47. josil: You’re close.
So far I’ve learned that all Republicans are wife beaters, fascists, and closet queers and all Democrats are socialists, homos, and drug addicts.
Now you can call it clear.
WOW!
Oscar, are you ken Bezig ?
Marie Claude
No
Wow . Oscar ! We must resist evil. You speak as though accepting homosexual marriage will be the end of the conflict. You are deluded . That is only the beginning.The government will INSTITUTE the practice and soon it will be a crime to oppose it. Much like the Americans With Disabilities Act. It will become a government sponsored industry. And everyone of an opposite view will be trampled and destroyed. It is the very nature of the Democratic Party today. They are thoroughly committed Utopians and their basic urge is to make everyone obey the goverment.
David Ass
I know very well of the liberty esposed by the left. Tyranny sucks no matter where it comes from. I dare say I felt much safer under the Bush Administration than this one. I didn’t agree with Bush on some matters; but, I knew where he stood. This new administration is as shifty as Clinton was when he was being questioned. You’ll never get a straight answer. That leaves a lot of room for conjecture. However, we can judge it by its actions and so far I’m not impressed. I don’t necessarily mind liberals, occassionally they come up with valid points. Left wingers on the other hand make me sick. Obama’s new posts include leftwingers not liberals. Let me site Samatha Powers as an example. If he’s going to listen to her advice, we’re in trouble.
Collectivism means you are going to take away the things that I worked very hard for and earned by blood and sweat just to give them to somebody else. That’s all that it means.
Go get a job, earn a living, you philosophical piss ant.
Look at her…I mean LOOK at her…what do you expect???
OK Oscar, I just understood !!!
Hey, I am worth than a closet, got the Hotel Victor Hugo on Champs Elysees on another place
“It is not collectivism that is dangerous – it is totalitarians, who mostly heil from the far right fringe. The left believes in liberty, fairness and equality. It is the theocratic mindset that makes possible the killings you describe – a mindset in tune with the right, and fundamentally at odds with the left.”
You hit on something very important here, though I would have to point out, Forced collectivism [because the cases you refer to have been those from forced] are not just from far right, no, Cambodia’s Khmer Rouge is good example, Stalin I wouldn’t say was so much ‘left’, left as in yes, comparison to the US but not left within the confines of socialism/revolutionary socialism, i.e. Lenin, due to Stalin’s inclination towards nationalism and national socialism and which, btw, has been the inheritance we see in the Southern Cone, Africa [Marxist Black Liberation ideology] and Islamic Socialism [Sultan Galievism--read the history of the compromises then the excluding then the compromises, Islam was the thorn in both Lenin and Stalin's side and has remained that way, the compromise always being another nail into the ole coffin], anyway Stalin’s opposition to Trotsky [nationalism verses internationalism which, ironically, I find that the two can compliment each other and is doing so today via cultural relativism].
But one important thing that isn’t taken into consideration, especially in light of what the regime is attempting to do in America with the stripping power away from the people/states included in that and taking absolute power in the hands of the federal politburo [which is what it will be, completely centralized] is that,
Stalin and even Mao, forced collectivization with ‘agragarian nations’ where as,
we aren’t agragarian [though you should look at what the feds are doing with the farms at this time, if THAT doesn't scare the hell out of anyone don't know what will, its worse than even the whole bank/loan forcing out, etc]. No one stops to question,
collectivize into What? AND put that in a global perspective, when you look at the developing countries and what is going on with them, and that is what is truly concerning not just in regards to the totalitarianism [and the mechanism is in place folks this isn't about what is Going to happen, its here, just some tweaking of parts and it is here], and I remember many saying during the election that just watch, for Obama to pull us into the UN and so forth,
well, its in process as we speak, through none other than Senator’s Boxer’s push for immediate ratification of the UN Rights of the Child. Which, ok, sounds good, right, who doesn’t want the human rights of children respected, I do, I think yes, we need something but, here’s the clincher on that,
that bill, gives NOT THE US GOVERNMENT OR EVEN US LOCAL COURTS power to decide what is in best interest of children, but the UN 18 member panel, to decide [and forget parental rights, they'll be non-existent],
now think about that for a minute. We’re talking about the UN having authority over what goes on between your family, and this only will apply to the West because that same UN, declared no one can even criticize any horrid abuse under Sharia Law. This same UN will decide what is in best interests of children?
Here at home? But if that isn’t bad enough, this is a very clever measure to pull US sovereignty into the power of the United Nations, and well, sorry but that same UN has done nothing to object even, to the genocide and butchering and mass raping and enslavement of children in Sudan, for one example, just one,
and they are to have power to rule over our future generations? To decide, and lets just say, play devil’s advocate here, lets just say that hey, there is a good panel, what happens though when that panel changes hands? What then?
So many of these laws being passed, if you look at the language in those 300 page documents [as if that isn't deliberate] and look at them, not just in short term but long term,
they go Way beyond just collectivization, way beyond. This is a forceful and deliberate move, and not getting into conspiracy theories here ok, I’ve done tons of reading and cross comparisons in getting to this conclusion, taking from several areas not just in politics, as to what is going on globally, and I find it very interesting that what seems to be transpiring more and more is that in countries people including the environmental groups and women’s rights, what we would say is grass roots,
are being thrown to the way side AFTER they assist in the change in regimes and that includes labor as well, and this global government taking hold, more and more.
And one that, how do you fight it? How do you protest an agency that you can’t even reach much less see? And its becoming more consolidated as we speak,
America is just simply getting in line with the porgram [that was deliberate spelling]. And world over there are all these reactionaries yet at the same time some of those reactionary groups are a part of the mechanism and even on the top,
its no coincidence, is some of it a result of the technical revolution and so called progress? Sure, but I think its far more than just chaos resulting in some unified order, an order that will solidify global slavery on a scale I don’t think we’ve even begun to imagine, not just slavery,
but disaster. So, my point being, what collectivization we see today is not the same type that is was in the Soviet [not towards industrial thats for sure] or even in Mao’s China or in Cambodia, all mind you, which were not right, they were left wing. [though yes, we should also do Just as much looking at Mussolini, and interestingly we don't, but I think we should because its very related to the economic side of what we see today as far as corporations/multinationals go].
Anyway some things to ponder on there, now to this other point,
“The left believes in liberty, fairness and equality. It is the theocratic mindset that makes possible the killings you describe – a mindset in tune with the right, and fundamentally at odds with the left.”
LOL LOL LOL, oh ok, lets see, Where do we begin,
comrade [you don't mind if I use that do you, old habit, you know], the left Claims to believe in liberty, fairness, and equality. Claims, its the language of the Party Platform, of course the first time you see the actual betrayal of each and every one of those ‘claims’ is when you are IN the party apparatus and you see just how quick the censoring and the ‘putting women off to the side–and under men and I do mean that literally’ [you Don't even want to go there with me because I will rip that so called B.S. claim about leftists and women to shreds and with so much proof that you'll never even Claim that lie in front of me again], and of course, equality?
Amazing isn’t it, how its usually the ‘white male’ that holds the power monopoly in the left OR one race of men or one ‘religion’ now being that, oh yes,
what was that, the Right and theocracy,
you have Got to be kidding me right?
Avakian [RCP] says we must open the door to religions, a.k.a. Islam
Socialist Party USA says we must have a Faith Commission [Jews of course are not allowed unless they embrace the ideology of their own death eventually]
ah, lets see, ah, yes, SWP and PFP [CA] and WWP and well, need I go on,
LOL, equality, who? Not women, that’s for sure, oh, you mean Token women, yea,
, gotcha,
or those Sharia Socialists who well, hey so what if girls are forced into marriage or if pedophilia is deemed as fine because you know those old other religions with their taboos, NEVER MIND ITS RAPE AND ITS A VIOLATION OF CONSENT,
and of course, no wonder they embrace the world’s most totalitarian and misogynist to the core THEOCRACY,
yes, and oh, why I forgot, fairness, you mean on and on and on about horrible Israel and Palestine but not one word or even a PROTEST or a TEAR for lets see,
Sudan, Burma, that’s two off my head, how about, no Protesting the treatment of worker’s HORRID ABUSES IN NONE OTHER THAN
OH MY GOSH IS SHE GOING TO SAY IT, YEA, IRAN?
:0
Oh but yes, the left is fair, sure,
and of course one of the most vocal objectors to Sharia Law [soon to be reality in UK] is by a communist woman that I can tell you 90% of leftists in this country don’t even know who she is or her name and not one, FEMINISTS INCLUDED, sorry, I mean, Bathory Feminists,
WILL STAND IN SOLIDARITY WITH HER OR THE FEW, AND I DO MEAN FEW, COURAGEOUS WOMEN FIGHTING FOR THEIR LIVES IN UK,
and you say, Fair, equality, what was the other, oh, liberty?
You know I can’t even write this because I could write a book, seriously, exposing all your b.s. Someone has this website, called zombie or something along those lines, you know I don’t concur with the ideologies of the right on All things but you know,
they got THAT one down to a pat, zombies is absolutely correct. Maybe I’ll come back to this and reply with a bit more articulate response [dealing with children right now and hard to focus on how I would like to respond] but,
well, leave you with this, as for the left,
might try making a public stand against GENDER APARTHEID, YOU KNOW, THAT WHOLE EQUALITY THING THE LEFT IS SO GOOD AT SPEWING,
and you could start with the gender apartheid and abuses in This country that are going on with total impunity, and not just that, your left so called philosopher king has two times, had a so called Sharia feminist as a representative to your so called left equality and anti-theocracy and in her own words,
she supports a world wide Caliphate.
[and of course, the sanctioned and totally blessed subjugation of women not just as second class but as nothing but PROPERTY-CHATTEL of the imperialist expansionist opiate that you left claim you are so die hard against. And in Lenin's own words, he called you a capitalist traitor, wolves in sheeps clothing...[one of those books that I've yet to meet one leftist having ever read, not just the little pamphlet ok, Emancipation of Women], but oh,
thats right, equality and fairness.
Thanks comrade, I needed the laugh today.
W R Jonas
The American Disabilities Act is not a bad thing. If you knew any disabled persons, you’d know that not enough is being done for them. Maybe some government industries aren’t bad. I know a few gays and they are less offensive than the far left or the far right.
Actually, Ms. Pelosi appeard on Hannity a few days back. I found her attractive and engaging. The photo does not do her justice.
She also had lots of good things to say about the McCain campaign and how well she was treated. Especially worthy of note is how open it all was to her and all the other journalists. (This is in great contrast to the Obama campaign where access to Obama and the upper echelons was extremely limited.)
This article at the end concedes how she did portray some things positively. My sole concern is, if this did, indeed, turn out to be a hit piece, then no Republican should ever again be so gracious to the media. They should tightly control access like the Obama camp did. Do not allow a Quisling into your camp.
@63. Oscar the Grump:
You may have felt safer under the Bush Administration. I certainly felt less so with his policies on spying, interrogation, detention, and pre-emptive war all contributing to the danger. Short-circuiting the checks and balances of our government to aggrandize personal power is the definition of tyranny – and that is exactly what Bush did.
What advice from Samantha Power do you expect would cause trouble? She appears to be an extremely well-respected expert on foreign policy matters and will be part of a diverse team informing Obama’s leadership.
Thanks for reinforcing my point about the right being mean spirited. I hope you also have a nice day, thanks.
Peace.
DS
By reading the right wing comments on this blog, I clearly understand why the conservative neocon Republican party is quickly assuming an irrelevant position in modern America. I fully expect the election coming in 2010 will be the last dying gasp of this know nothing party.
This bickering seems pointless while we’re on the deck of this sinking ship. America is heading down the tubes. And the Democrats in congress are giddy with power as they prepare to spend ungodly sums of money we don’t have and can never pay back. The Obama/Pelosi spending bill is a huge fraud and very few people seem to give a damn. I hate to say it, but we deserve what we get for letting America go to hell.
#45 janedoe – Jane, you are not a leftist. You used to be. By all your comments, you have drifted far right socially. You still think Leftist economically, however; your only vestige of Leftism remaining.
You seem to believe that Capitalism creates poverty. It doesn’t. Most are born into poverty. Most economic and political systems of the world rarely allow you to escape that reality. Capitalism is the ONLY system that alters that paradigm. The poor in this country, for the most part, actually do fairly well, as compared to the rest of the world. Our streets are paved with gold. It’s why we can’t control the flood of immigration. When they come here and get a job, they are instantly wealthy compared to those they left behind.
Take a look at your own post, and read it as if it were someone else’s. Where on the political spectrum would you place that person? Change your economic outlook, and I say, “Welcome to the Republican Party.”
#56 Oscar the Grump – Your numbers and thinking are wrong on this one. Gays represent from 1-3% of the populace. Only a very vocal, militant minority actually care about gay marriage. In Holland, where gay marriage is legal, only about 4% ever actually marry. Did we grant gay marriage, they would still vote left. Nothing would change.
“It is not collectivism that is dangerous – it is totalitarians, who mostly heil from the far right fringe. The left believes in liberty, fairness and equality. It is the theocratic mindset that makes possible the killings you describe – a mindset in tune with the right, and fundamentally at odds with the left”.
I assume you mean “fairness and equality” in the eyes of the law, correct? If you do, then we agree on that.
If not, and you are applying this term to economics, how can you have “liberty” when you have an ideology that also wants “fairness and equality”?
If I have ‘liberty” to make or create as much wealth as I want, to live where I want, to go as I please, and to buy what I wish, what happens when those in charge decide that I have too much, and that doesn’t represent “fairness and equality”? Do they have the right to take it from me because they think it’s fair? Doesn’t “fairness” have to do with both sides agreeing that it’s fair? If I don’t think it’s “fair” but you think it’s “fair”, exactly how is that fair? And does taking it from me and giving it to someone else really make us “equal”?
If I continue to produce more than someone else, and the powers in charge keep taking it from me to give to someone else, how exactly is that fair? Does this not breed contempt? Again, How do you reconcile “liberty” with “fairness and equality”?
As for collectivism not being “dangerous”, how exactly do you enforce collectivism without some sort of totalitarianism? Unless everyone agrees to share all the wealth and assets equally, and agree to it without coercion, then you’re talking about forcing people to be collectivists, which again breeds contempt and class envy.
Why work twice as hard as someone else if you are only going to receive the same benefit? For the good of the collective?
Haven’t seen that mentality last for too long.
As far as I’m concerned, “liberty” trumps “fairness and equality” in the economic realm. You will never be able to have both at the same time.
I choose liberty.
@57. David S:
“When the right is being mean spirited, racist, homophobic and sexist, it is hard to take their criticism of the left at face value.”
They of course have to be all those things in the first place. You failed to prove any of these so how can those on the right take you seriously David? If you stop generalizing, you would gain some credibility.
“Take some advice from Christian Toto and stop defending bigotry if you want to be taken seriously.”
You should practice what you preach. Haven’t you drawn conclusions about all those on the right from a small sample drawn by Pelosi? Hate to break this to you, but that’s bigotry.
“It is not collectivism that is dangerous – it is totalitarians, who mostly heil from the far right fringe.”
Stalin and Mao were on the right? Who would have thought?
“The left believes in liberty, fairness and equality.”
Actually, libertarians do. Kinda hard to be pro-liberty and push a trillion dollar government wealth redistribution in the same space. Fairness as in the “fairness doctrine”?
“It is the theocratic mindset that makes possible the killings you describe – a mindset in tune with the right, and fundamentally at odds with the left.”
Stalin, Mao and Hitler were not at all religious. Surely you forgot.
“Peace.”
I can expect this from you in your response?
David Sssssssss
Can’t you come some valid points? Samantha Powers, well respected etc.
She’s a kook and so twisted she can see her own back.
I’m so hurt that I reinforced your feelings about us being mean spirited. You know just to make up for it, I’m willing to help you with your job application.
And peace on you too.
I had to listen to a lot of leftist professors in order to get my degrees from Berkeley and San Francisco State. And it wasn’t much more pleasant listening to my knee-jerk rightwing in-laws. But I have to admit that I haven’t heard anything approaching janedoe’s cogent, logical and organized presentations since the last time a drunken homeless person attempted to explain the history of the world to me. The WHOLE history.
David S,
Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, Che, Castro etc. are Theocrats from the right. I get it, you are a victim of our education system that completely failed to teach you how to do any research. My condolences. Maybe you should sue them for indoctrinating you instead of teaching you to think. I know just plain mean spirited, but you need to grow a thicker skin and maybe even a pair. Sorry you might just want to study History a bit better. It is easy to stake out a position but you provided no proof of your statements. By the way the above are responsible for somewhere around 100 million deaths during the 20th century.
I fully expect the election coming in 2010 will be the last dying gasp of this know nothing party.
After the initial display of ineptness by The One, I fully expect the GOP to come roaring back in 2010 – the fact that all of the Republicans on the Hill except for 3 RINOs voted against the obscenity that is the “stimulus bill” heartened me. No, little lefties, enjoy your brief hour of victory now, because, believe me, your stimulus package will not stimulate, we’ll be even deeper in the hole in 2010 – and people will hate the sight of you and your holy messiah.
Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, Che, Castro etc. are Theocrats from the right. I get it, you are a victim of our education system that completely failed to teach you how to do any research.
I opined elsewhere that David S. must be very young. He exhibits all the attributes of our woefully miseducated youth. He knows very little history (Did you know the economy was better under Carter than it was under Bush? So saith David S.)and yet he is stuffed to the gills with “self-esteem” and absolute self-righteousness.
If our young people ever realize how badly they’ve been snookered by their leftist baby boomer professors, and how much they have paid for such poor educatione, we really will have a revolution on our hands. Because if I were in my 20′s and started to become aware of how indoctrinated I was – I’d be absolutely furious.
@57 – David S
“It is not collectivism that is dangerous – it is totalitarians, who mostly heil from the far right fringe. The left believes in liberty, fairness and equality. It is the theocratic mindset that makes possible the killings you describe – a mindset in tune with the right, and fundamentally at odds with the left.”
You seem to have problems differentiating between truths and myths. You point that there have been bloody dictators in this world that come from the political right is well taken but you give a total pass to the political left for the same sins.
The left is not unique in believing in “liberty, fairness and equality”. It was Karl Marx who popularized the slogan, “To each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”. On paper, it seems simple and harmless enough but in practice, people like Stalin and Pol Pot killed millions of their own countrymen in an effort to achieve the ultimate left wing paradise. All totalitarian governments – be it from the right or left – require a certain level of collectivization to survive.
Also, when it comes to your definition of “theocratic mindset” you ignore the well-documented fact that both Hitler and Stalin effectively suppressed religious movements and organizations in their respective nations and successfully presented themselves as demigods to their people, thus creating what is commonly called a “cult of personality”.
I am a very strong believer in the separation of church and state but your take on what differentiates left wing ideology from right wing ideology seemed poorly thought out. The only way your words can make sense is by ignoring history, but, if we cannot ignore history, then the best thing to do is to ignore you.
TO: All
RE: Heh
What’s her Mensa membership ID number?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. I think she’s ‘projecting’ about that “ignorance” business…..
P.P.S…..
….and I’ll wager she’s more a ‘racist’ than I am.
My brother-in-law is an Iranian.
My eldest daughter is ‘dating’ a former Marine who is black.
TO: All
RE: PDS [Pelosi Derangement Syndrome]
“Actually, Ms. Pelosi appeard on Hannity a few days back. I found her attractive and engaging. The photo does not do her justice.” — Marc Malone
I suspect that most people suffering from fawning sycophanty think of her the same way….like the flying monkeys thought of the Wicked Witch of the West.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[People who love evil think all evil is beautiful. -- CBPelto]
Some leftie here claimed that “The left believes in liberty, fairness and equality.”. Actually, liberty-fairness and equality of result are the opposites. You can pick either liberty and fairness or you pick equality of result. You cannot have both. And if you choose equality of result, you will betray freedom and justice – and most likely you won’t get equality either. It was always like that. Lenin, Mao Castro promised you equality and liberty – and in the end you got neither.
TO: AlwHwakSF
RE: Yeah?
“But I have to admit that I haven’t heard anything approaching janedoe’s cogent, logical and organized presentations since the last time a drunken homeless person attempted to explain the history of the world to me. The WHOLE history.” — AlwHwakSF
Where’s the sarcasm indicator? A smiley would help…..
If you’re so ‘astute’and well ‘edukated’, why can’t you provide something as simple as
?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Alcohol! The last gift of the relenting gods. The simple word that makes life's crossword puzzle easier to elucidate. - Lennie Lower]
P.S. Perhaps you weren’t drunk enough to appreciate what he was saying…..
Regar
Apple and tree. Hand and glove. Dominant genes. Like mother like daughter.
Not complicated, guys.
I suggest you all think about Robespierre to imagine how this horrible interlude might end for these violent totalitarians who hate you and the country you built.
Let’s stop talking to these people as if they’re just like us only different.
What an ugly woman.
Really.
P.S. Listening to a drunk homeless person describing world history would probably be more instructive and entertaining than listening to a retired four-star describe his WWII experience in Europe STEP-BY-BLOODY-STEP at a dining in.
I swear….
….three-quarters of the head table was face down in their dessert, half-way through the ‘presentation’. Not to forget the other officers in attendance……
….I only woke up because I was coming out of the ‘spirit’ of the evening, having partaken of the regimental punch a tad too much. [Note: Something to do with misspeaking my toast.....]
David S @ 57 says:
”
David, the most racist people I have ever met where liberals, and hard core democrats. Same for sexist. But the left has successfully shut down any kind of debate or discussion with these tactics, because they know that their ideas & beliefs could never stand the light of day. That’s why people like you call others by those derogatory labels really. And you lie when you say you would take conservatives seriously ever.
“Enlightened” people like you feel everyone else is stupid for not believing what you do. Your kind labels even your own that dare deviate form the plan rather than ever discuss anything. Ask the Clintons how it felt to be on the receiving end of the racist term for doing what liberals always do.
David S @ 57 says:
This proves how stupid you are David. Did you honestly type this and think it would not be seen as the idiotic ranting of a deranged fool? Do you not see that collectivism per se requires a totalitarian system to exist, fool? Let me talk slow and at a kindergarten level and see if this can sink in. Collectivism requires some authority that sets the rules and does the redistribution. Communism and socialism, the main forms of collectivism to plague our world the last century, both produced the most totalitarian systems ever. You forget the USSR which was born in blood, under Stalin brutally murdered tens of millions and sent trice as many to gulags for the wrong thoughts (like libs want to do with anyone that you do not like BTW), and then spread worldwide to kill hundreds of millions and enslave billions. Communist China, and even today’s China, North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, Cambodia, and so on, all are examples of extreme totalitarian states. Socialism, which debuted in Mussolini’s Italy and then Hitler’ Germany, spread around the third world. Do you think countries like Iraq under Saddam, Chavez’s Venezuela, Mugabe’s Zimbabwe, Assad’s Syria, and the other lot of shit holes that adopted this deranged ideology are not totalitarian states? Or are they just the “correct” kind of ideological totalitarian state and hence not considered totalitarian by idiots like yu?
The left does not believe in any kind of liberty at all. It believes in equality of outcome, sold to the idiots too stupid to see the idiocy of this belief as “social justice”, above all. For that equality of outcome to be possible, the left must control everything. And I do mean everything. It must limit the successful, hard working, and smart to the same achievements as the mediocre and the lowest common denominator. It must interfere to stop Mother Nature itself, and balance the impossible! In short, the left must control every aspect of man’s life to be able to give people that “fairness” bull you claim it believes in David. Of course, the elite, and every moron that bought into these infantile collectivist rantings fancies themselves part of the elite, are above that all. Can you see anything more totalitarian than this ideology David?
The next time you want to make a total idiot of yourself David, repeat the crap you posted here again. If people laugh at you or call you a moron you know they are thinkers. If they agree with you, you are talking to the shallow end of the gene pool.
David S @ 69 said:
Why would you feel so frightened under Bush David? Where you a terrorist or a terrorist supporter? Where you worried that call from Osama or one of his buddies would land you in jail? Or was your concern that Bush would lock you up because you had killed some of those Christians you so despise? You might want to read the US Constitution at least once too. Our president is expected to protect us, especially in times of war, from an enemy that is trying to kill us. The Constitution even says how to deal with traitors. Pity we no longer even are able to label traitors what they are, let alone do what the Constitution says we need to.
I’m still waiting for even one liberal that can back up these idiotic assertions of how they where mistreated because of the Patriot Act or any such government infringement. Every time I have asked for proof, I have been given the run around. The usual drivel about how we are a “fascist nation” and government was stealing the people’s rights. Only problem was that every example put forward involved a terrorist, a suspected terrorist, or someone working with terrorists. Even that Canadian/Syrian idiot that the left loves to tout as their example, I remind you, was fingered by the Canadian government, which at the time was a hard left government, as a terrorist. The left loves to point out how he somehow was innocent, and that is still debatable too, blame the US and Bush’s government, and ignore the role of the Canadian government in the whole thing. Of course that is because otherwise they have no proof. I ask them for the camps where Americans that dissent with the government are taken to. Or even one American that was persecuted for their beliefs only. Eventually they start rambling about the war on drugs, how they are not allowed to smoke pot, and I end up laughing at their stupidity.
David. Obama is already backtracking on every campaign promise related to the extension of government power to fight the GWoT. Guantanamo will not be closed, despite the promise. Everything that was legal under Bush is going to be kept. And the left is now spinning these facts, splitting atoms and parsing words, to try and create some argument why these things they considered so vile and repulsive while Bush was in the WH, now are just fine. In fact, I bet Obama goes even farther than Bush did, and you and people like you, will defend him for doing that David. And just so we are clear, my stand on this has not changed a bit. As long as Obama does not abuse these powers and does not use them to go after his political opponents (like for example the Clinton’s did), I will have no problem with the US government sticking it to terrorists that want to kill me and my fellow citizens. Are you going to remain consistent and turn on Obama for, to use your words, “short-circuiting the checks and balances of our government to aggrandize personal power”?
Your problem with the right was solely and completely based on the fact that they are not leftists. But keep pretending you actually have any kind of moral compass or have reasoned this tuff out, because it is transparently obvious you do not have a clue about anything.
LeftWingandBrave writes:
“Everyone know that the neo-cons oppose free-thinking, gay marriage, science and evolution. President Obama is proof that humanity can rise above its worst aspects.”
..or that turds float to the top of the punchbowl.
Well, she’s right isn’t she. Sure there are some intelligent Republicans out there. But they seem to be controlled by racists. You can’t be a little bit racist you know, you either are or you aren’t. And what I hear from the conservatives is racism and hatred, 24/7. They try to disguise it, and profusely deny it. But a keen observer will not be fooled.
By JackT’s logic, if you did not vote for Obama you’re a racist. Ergo, the only way to avoid that epithet is to vote for Obama and support his policies. Don’t ya see? The only way out of being called racist is to vote for someone because of his race.
Thank you, JackT, for helping me to see that I am a racist. But you must remember that there was a ten year period of my life (1977-1987)when I wasn’t a racist, because I was a Marxist, and therefore, a part of the opposition to Republicans in those days. So, I went from being a non-racist for most of my life (I was 32 when I left the Left)to being a racist or someone controlled by racists.
So, tomorrow, if I were to repudiate my slightly right of center location on the spectrum and went back to being a Leftist I would no longer be a racist. Because all Republicans are either racists or controlled by racists.
Dead on fred @ 94. The left has mastered the ad hominem attack. Debate or discuss? That’s for chumps! Do not dare question us or what we do, or else we will label you! And once that is done, we will just use the label to discredit you. I have had leftists tell me that I HAD to vote for Obama to prove I was not a racist. I asked them if they where sexist because they voted for a man over a woman (Clinton). Man you have to see the heads explode.
I was hoping JackT @ 95 was being sarcastic, but I am afraid he is not. The telling thing is that the same people that ridicule those backwards redneck religious republicans, are the same to employ something the church did back in the dark ages: they labeled anyone questioning them a heretic. Now the left does the same except they call you racist, homophobe, sexist, or label you with some other crap that connotes negative motivations. See if they can destroy your character they do not need to argue or explain their faults.
Good job, fred, of exposing the complete illogic and stupidity of JackT. JackT would have made a good hanging judge during the original witch trials: “Don’t try to deny you’re a witch, we know you’re lying. We’re going to throw you in the pond now. If you sink and drown, you’re innocent and if you float, that means you’re guilty and then we’ll hang you.”
JackT the racist hunter” has exactly the same mentality as 16th century Puritans. Yeah, now that’s “progressive.”
Once prosperous, beautiful Rhodesia comes to mind as a laboratory of experiments in Keynes’ian Leftist theory. Rhodesia’s failure was hailed by the world media as an experimental Brave New World, where all property would be ‘forcefully taken’ from the people that developed it into a prosperous, productive piece of Africa, while they had ensured those that helped to work the earth, a piece of the profits from well managed exports.
Slowly the ‘leftist encouraged’, ‘massacres’ drove out the productive segment of orderly society until the ‘equality’ of the leftists was achieved. After the encouraged killings were finished and all resistance was either dead or gone, Guns were then taken away from the ‘subjects’ for ‘safety reasons’, so that they did not accidentaly shoot a child or any one else. Witness today the ‘equality’ of ZIMBABWE.
Everyone living in Zimbabwe now, has the ‘equal’ ability to starve together, while the elitist rulers and their armed close military police support are able to rape and rob, then murder the few that have tried to survive. Buried with a backhoe in a field with thousands of other’s bones, is the only ‘equality’ the people will ever achieve today.
A life expectancy in the late 40′s, Starvation due to the ignorance and indifference of the masses attempting to coax a few low yield crops from once highly productive farmland. An inflation rate that is in the millions and an indifferent world that once encouraged this abomination of leftist politics is the final result. yes I read all of the articles in Newsweek and TIME while it was being promoted as the greatest step toward freedom that the world has ever seen. I detest those publications to this day.
Robert Mugabe and his ‘CHANGE’, was their savior to rid them of the yoke of disparity in wealth. At least that is what the worlds adoring leftists promoted in their utopian dreamlife experiment. Reality is a little different than the shows on TV, where the support crew lets no one starve to death or be murdered due to animosities.
The profit motive is a powerful force not to be trifled with, or it dies. Try raising African Violets and you will see what Happens when you try something out of tune with nature.
The Mainstream news is obsessed with, hope filled, ‘fairness and equality’.
Nature does not reward such an inherently flawed, human devised system.
‘Otzi the Iceman’ lived over 5,000 years ago. He studied the known sciences, worked hard, had wealth and possesions. When the average age of humans was in the teens, ‘Otzi” survived by his wits and lived into his 40′s. He was eventually murdered for his ‘worked for’ possesions. ‘Otzi’ in actuality, won the battle over his foes by surviving, preserved in the advancing Ice of the ‘Priora Oscilation’. Nothing has changed in humanity over all of these years. Greed for anothers property and wealth is omnipresent. When distribution of wealth is forced by a government, failure is predictable. History is the teacher, and a harsh lesson is taught.. once again. DaFlikkers
party loyalty to republicans or democrats means nothing any longer. the dominant party being the one the Bankers are having. these are dangerous times. we must stand together against this onslaught against democracy, where the people influence public policy. and, while there are those demented enough to not question this moslem loving, democracy hating president and his mad notions, his manipulations, and outright lies, there are at least as many millions of americans who are appalled, enraged, disgusted.
we don’t know really yet what obama is up to, or whether it is stupidity or by design, but we know europe is falling down, slipping around in its own slimy ooze of cowardice and fascism. we know the same is happening in south america. in the middle east democracy hangs on the thread of israel. and, we know, just as we knew finally, that either we annihilate the fascist thugs like the nazis and tojo or the very next thing you know, their newest incarnation, the islamics, will be marching down fifth avenue. and, they won’t be shopping.
Marie Claude
I’m sorry girl, I only have enough for a small closet.
Oscar The Grump has made an excellent point (while not getting into a fight in an elevator alone).
The minute Reagan left, the GOP sank into an exclusionist approach that has marginalized it. No more worrying about ideas! Now we can go back to being corrupt snobs like we want to be.
Worrying all night about gays getting married is about as productive–and less principled– as defending “state’s rights” to allow people to refuse sales of houses to blacks.
The GOP ought to be the party of maxiumum individual liberty. Instead it has become encrusted with country club republicans like Elihu Smailes (the judge in Caddyshack).
Worse, we have people who can’t make HBO movies or write books taking pot shots at Pelosi the Younger’s looks. Oh THAT’LL show them: didn’t we spend ooodles of time tssking the Democrats for making fun of the woman who ratted out Monica Lewinsky? What do we say about the people that called Lincoln a baboon?
Mark Malone notes that Peosi seems charming enough. Then out comes Pelto, who has been mercifuly absent for months, to suggest Malone is a sycophant for focusing on issues not looks. Chuck, go tend to your tomato Colorado tomato bushes and leave the serious talk to the grown ups.
Really, whining about HBO’s special is unbecoming: what did you expect her to make–a boring middle of the road movie–like an Ann Coulter book?
The ability to make our own movies is there. Start filming.
93. JackT:
“And what I hear from the conservatives is racism and hatred, 24/7. They try to disguise it, and profusely deny it. But a keen observer will not be fooled.”
~
JackT, don’t be telling that to Barack’s ex-preacher Reverend Jeremiah Wright. Shhhhhhh.
-
I tried to force myself to watch this HBO special but I ended up reading off-and-on through most of it because it was a yawner. My husband laughed out loud a few times so I guess it wasn’t all for naught. ;p
@75. RaeNanda Pointer:
Actually, no, I haven’t drawn conclusions about all right leaning persons from a small sample. I am confident that most Republicans are reasonable and thoughtful. That is why I have been visiting these forums – to see how reasonable and thoughtful the right side of the blogosphere can be, and whether we might have some things to teach one another.
Totalitarianism is an anti-democratic form of government, and yes, this is a “far right” position. The far end of the left side of the political spectrum is anarchy – the far end of the right side is despotism. Mao and Stalin were not big fans of democracy – they fall in with the Tories and other monarchist types of despots.
“The left believes in liberty, fairness and equality.”
Libertarians are leftists – they oppose state control, and prefer “liberal” government. The fairness doctrine is only necessary if concentrated ownership of limited media outlets leaves political views in media one sided. Responsible broadcasters would not be impacted at all. Fairness is necessary on the airwaves, which are a public space being allocated to private entities with obligations attached.
They were not religious, but they depended on the same mindset as monarchs for their legitimacy. Right wing regimes are all about absolute power. This is only possible when the people have a religious devotion to their leaders. Secular representative government is the solution. Novus ordo seclorum.
Peace.
DS
Actually from one looking in from the outside this ‘debate’ and I use that in the broadest sense is irrelevant. The U.S. and its denizens seem to assume that their country is somehow immune fro history. There is only one way that this can end and that is in blood and revolution. I know, laugh at me if you must but try buying ammunition in the U.S. just now. Consumption has increased 400% since Obama took power. THAT is a fact that will come back to haunt many in the States. I have just tried to order 4 million rounds of various calibers for a ‘foreign’ military and there is just no ammunition components available at any cost! The current financial circus in pork will stave off ruin for a few months to a year at most. They the toll will be paid. I’m not taking an ideological stance, simply stating what history has told many of times. Your Republic is heading for another civil war and the right will be the ones with all of the guns and ammunition , if they can beg hard enough to buy more from the manufacturers.
Laugh if you must but remember that you heard it here first when people start dying. Think it can’t happen in a ‘civilized ‘ democratic society society? It can and unfortunately will and sooner that many of you believe. The decade + long Depression and civil insurrection coming down the pike will make the so called Great Depression look like a walk in the park. Smile as many of you will. Do you actually believe that the U.S. Republic is somehow immune from history’s lessons?
I weep for your Republic and hope that you live to see the end of this time of strife.
@90. AlexinCT:
All of these states are fundamentally right wing totalitarian regimes – none allow for democratic freedoms long championed by liberals and progressives.
The left believes equality of opportunity is a basic precondition for liberty.
@91. AlexinCT:
What part of tyranny do you not understand? Given the Supreme Court Justices appointed by Bush, and the massive over-reach his administration made by conducting illegal surveillance, and the myriad mistakes made to date, I see no reason to trust Bush with the unlimited executive power he claimed for himself.
Here is some proof for you of how the nightmare could start.
If he were not a lawyer, well aware of his rights, he could easily have been lost in the system. Here is an excerpt of the judge’s ruling:
Just keep in mind how difficult it is to provide proof of “secret” activities.
If so, I will be protesting Obama’s administration as well.
Peace.
DS
Blackwell wrote:
Instead it has become encrusted with country club republicans like Elihu Smailes (the judge in Caddyshack).
Huh? Sarah Palin and those who supported her were not attacked because she is a “country club republican.”
I’m curious as to what planet’s elections you were following.
Hmm, perhaps David is on to something? Our friend is correct that totalitarian states – by definition are ‘right’ of the spectrum; however, might you concede that Mao, Castro, Chavez, Mussolini, and even the evil one, Hitler, advocated for socialist (read: left)doctrine to energize the masses to – in all cases cited – over throw the previous monarchy or dictatorial regimes? So, promising the masses that the poor would be remembered and taken care of, that is was the elites that caused all the suffering, that government ‘owed’ you….allowed these folks to thrive and take power; with this ‘mandate’ they swing to absolute power (hence corrupting absolutely)? Why might that be? A prededent we should fear? Hope not.
I am disheartened by many of the posts. I, in my youth, opposed the war in VN and considered myself the ‘enlightened’ of my day. But reality set in – I tried working my way through college, but, nonetheless, ended up in the military. Spent 36 years defending our country; even though my beliefs told me they were often wrong more than they were right in policies – but felt my presence brought some humility and rationality to the action (just because you have silenced a man does not mean you have changed him).
Now, in retirement, having earned my pension, I watch and wonder at people that would no more stand for the nation, preferring to trash it, claim imminent catastrophe, throw brickbats vice solutions, then wait for a handout – often condemning my comrades who do what needs to be done. Then, these beneficiaries of my sacrifice brand me a villain for believing in the founding principles of the nation – no where did the government state a guarantee for happiness – it permitted the pursuit of happiness.
Yes, I am now somewhat conservative. I am proud of our nation, I believe the fundamentals of the nation remain strong and her people will find a way to help each other out of her current crisis – without pet projects and ‘wish lists’ from special interests. I’m a UU’er – so I might be more ‘religious’ than most, and I resent being called sexist, racist, ageist, etc….’cause I don’t vote for the celebrity of either party.
As to the topic at hand, Pelosi can film what she wishes; I agree that we on the right need to find our message – stay off the ad hominem attacks, and remind people at the end of the day – vote with your head not your guilt.
Many of the above comments to this point are important to discussion; some are just disappointing, and childish….from both sides…
Gunfighter
I watched the documentary last night. I too wished that it showed a broader cross-spectrum of right-wing opinion. However — having grown up in a very conservative, rural, all-white (and very racist town — where the only black family was literally run out of town), and poorly educated town in upstate among self-proclaimed “rednecks” — I think that the film does portray certain truths. It is genuinely difficult for people who have been “left behind” by the global, urban, multi-racial world, which is increasingly made up of college-educated professionals, city dwellers, and minorities, to accept the demise of their isolated, and in many cases ignorant, world. When you only get your news from FOX, never went to college, and don’t read widely from difficult texts, the documentary shows how these people can easily transfer all their resentment, hate, racism, and anger (at being “left behind” by the rest of the culture) onto a scary black man with a remarkably diverse and multicultural background. Instead of being angry at McCain — a genuinely rich man born into wealth and privilege with many homes who cuts taxes for the rich — they are angry at the guy who worked himself up from nothing, who became editor of the Harvard Law Review after being born to a poor single mother. Their life experiences are so limited that they become angry at what they don’t understand and the world that is passing them by.
The apple didn’t fall to far from the tree did it?
James, Robespierre had not associations, he was only a député of a northern department of France with convictions, thus not an “organizer”, Lenine was, Mao was with strategic means
_________________________
Oscar, all right, I’m keeping the intention in mind :mrgreen ;
David S @ 104 says:
David, now I am sure you suffer from dementia or some other kind of psychosis. It takes a completely insane mind to try and argue that despotic leftist states are “right wing”, because they are totalitarian. Methinks a lesson in history is necessary. The USSR stood for the “Union of Socialist Soviet Republics. Every Eastern block nation had the words “Democratic Republic” in their name. Remember what East Germany was called? Or are you too young and ignorant to recall that? North Korea and practically every other commie hellhole in Asia also had the same in their names. The word “Democratic” featured prominently, and they all talked about liberty, justice, equality, and progress. In fact, every one of these collectivist states made it a point of telling everyone on the planet they where a liberal paradise where the people where not just all equal, but finally lived in happiness. of course history proved them all liars.
Have you ever seen the constitution of any of these vile collectivist states that you so ignorantly, but with such desperate ideological need, are claiming are “right wing” because they are totalitarian? They are replete with that left wing idiocy about fairness, equality, liberty, and other such progressive pap. Of course, none of it ever matters because the elite class ruling, the totalitarians you claim are “right wing”, know and treated these documents as just bull. Here. Let me link that left wing site Wikipedia and let you go take a look at the four constitutions that the USSR had. You will find language you are very familiar with, because it is the same crap democrats and people like are saying these days. Google the constitution of any of these other collectivist death traps and you will find similar leftist ideological pap about freedoms, equality, fairness, liberty and so on. And yet, they are totalitarian states, even according to a left wing dominated site as Wikipedia. I linked you a leftists site to disprove your lies again David. You can parse words and play games, but these states are the children of collectivist ideology. They prove my point that collectivsm can not exist as a government policy without being accompanied by totalitarianism.
How freaking twisted must you be to continue to pretend these states are “right wing” David? Is it because you are so indoctrinated that you can only see evil in those that do not think like you, and hence label everything evil unlike you? Do you have a psychiatrist? Are you on medication for dementia and delusional behavior?
David S @ 104 said:
Oh, bullsh*t! The left believes in equality of results, and pays lip service to equality of opportunity. There is no cuntry in the hsitory of this world where equality of opportunity was better garanteed than the US. That is before the elft started pushing its agenda. The only way to guarantee equality of results BTW, is to deny people all their freedoms, control everything they do, and hold back those that are better. A progressive tax, the dumbing down of education, welfare, the war on poverty, Barney Franks & Chris Dodd using laws to force banks to loan money to people that can not pay it back in the name of progress and fairness, affirmative action, hate crimes, and so on. All things pushed by your “liberty loving” (that was sarcasm in case you miss it David) progressives, are intended to force equality of outcome. They might all be couched in beautiful rhetoric and sound well meaning, even noble, kind of like the constitutions of those vile and evil totalitarian collectivist states you are trying to convince us are really right wing, but they are intended to limit the successes of some of the people. The only thing your “liberty loving” progressive agenda can deliver, and has delivered through history in spades, is misery, slavery of the masses, and death for dissenters. There is a century of results, in literally scores of countries accross our planet, to prove me right. There is not even a single example to prove you right. and there will never be.
David S @ 104 said:
Could start David? Did you not previously state: “You may have felt safer under the Bush Administration. I certainly felt less so with his policies on spying, interrogation, detention, and pre-emptive war all contributing to the danger. Short-circuiting the checks and balances of our government to aggrandize personal power is the definition of tyranny – and that is exactly what Bush did.”
That sounded to me like it was already a rampant and ongoing problem (in yur mind for sure). And yet, here you are giving an example where our courts where allowed to declare the “power grab” (your words) intend as your proof as going beyond what the power of the office allows. Sounds to me like it was topped. So, what is it? Did we have government in a totalitarian fashion usurp power, silence all dissenters, and run rough shod over the Constitution as you claimed, or not? And are you really making the claim that botched fingerprints leading to arrests never happened before the Patriot Act? You progressives are always telling us everyone in jail is innocent and was put there because the law abused its power (see a patern there?). Would this guy they mistakenly grabbed not been given a lawyer according to you? And your own and only example proves me right, while making you look like an idiot! Do you ever get tired of looking like a complete and total lying fool?
David S @ 104 said:
Then you better begin David. He has already allowed rendition to stay and so much as had his AG say the practice will be expanded. sure, they parsed some words about how they would do it differently, and thus make it more palatable, but the fact is they will continue to do the same thing you libs accused Bush of being a criminal for. Remember that this practice was started by Bill Clinton’s people too.
Guantanamo will only be closed if he can reach a deal with countries like Egypt or Iraq, where the Patriot Act would be a step up, to send these people to. My bet is 2 years from now Guantanamo will still be there. Only then liberals will be making excuses for why under Obama they no longer want to call it a Gulag.
Obama has no interest in repealing the Patriot Act either. I say you quit blogging here and start protesting please.
Donna V: No disresepct intended to Palin or her supporters. But I’m on the planet that just handed an Presidential election to a virtual unknown. The GOP nominee, old, tired, and underfunded, had been in the senate for decades but stood for nothing in the public eye except an honorable war record 40 years ago. Before that the voters ended GOP’s control of congress which the GOP speaker had seemingly run as a lobbyist lounge.
The GOP establishment won’t get out of bed before 11:00 a.m. to attract new voters and seems to delight in mulishly repelling them. They hardly embraced Palin, did they? Instead, McCain’s handlers eargerly leaked the GOP establishment’s view of politicians from outside the Beltway when they tagged her as a “hilbilly” loose in Neiman Marcus. She may have been a successful, twice elected governor–but she ate deer, shot guns, had lots of kids and didn’t have a JD or MBA from Haaarvard or Yale. Thus it has always been: Reagan, an actor and lifeguard, was never taken seriously either, until he extracted power from the voters. The GOP insiders had always preferred New York Gov Rockefeller to Nixon too, as a more polished insider.
Reagan speechwriter Peggy Noonan observed as much years ago when noting the GOP insistence on filling spots in the White House with the sons and daughters of party stalwarts, while ignoring smart newcomers. The inbred GOP is literally encrusted with plaid-pants wearing bores that see and hear nothing new or fresh and aren’t that smart to begin with. They had their best recent success with a former actor and lifeguard, not one of their chosen. They are about as welccoming as the boring and snotty Fraternity on Animal House or the indulgent Roman Senate in the early empire.
The GOP could do itself a lot off good by trying to remember (like Reagan)what it stands for as opposed to simply being against things because the fuds in charge oppose them.
It won’t get there by making fun of Pelosi’s photo, whining about how unfair it is that the left makes films while the GOP is out golfing and trying to reconcile hostility to gay marriage with what is supposed to be a party that embraces individual freedoms. Regards,
There are as many nutjobs on the left as there are on the right–maybe more. I have come to expect this kind of blatant dishonesty from liberal “documentary” producers as simply the nature of the genre. Pelosi is another Michael Moore. They should be ignored and whenever possible exposed for the propagandists they are. It isn’t documentary film-making it is “reifenstalism”.
Comments made from the left citing that conservatives are Bible thumpers make me laugh so hard my sides hurt!! I know numerous conservatives who are agnostic.
Same goes for when the left states that conservatives are ignorant and against science. To be honest with you I know only one smart liberal, and her father was a professor in the 70′s in Boston, (I forgive her for her views).
Most conservatives I know have a college degree, work hard and take pride in what they have accomplished. They are willing to help others who help themselves. They look down on those who act as victims and want handouts. I agree with them.
Hannity interviewed the Jr. Pelosi the other night. She did state that while filming this documentary she met some of the nicest people in the country. McCain supporters invited her into their homes, fed her and let her spend the night…I wonder if this information made the final cut.
DAVID S,
Give us a break, I would be happy to produce a “documentary” on the left that would with similar venom display nothing but charactures of a tiny minority of libs. Imagine camera shots of the average ACORN “activist” or some “counselor” in a planned parenthood office whispering that it does not have to be reported that the “father” is 30 years old and guilty of child abuse with the 13 y/o girl asking for an abortion. In fact, when you examine the facts (of the 2004 election) the majority of college educated Americans voted for Bush. Maher? Holy Toledo, that self-appointed cretin who barely passed as a comic is sadly now the darling of the left. What is next? A former SNL hack as a senator from Minnesota?…God Help us (well, all of us but Maher)
FORGOT TO MENTION IN THE LAST POST..BOYCOTT HBO!!!!
Its time to start believing in God and go out an get a gun
.
@110. AlexinCT:
It’s neat how you like to tell me what I believe, when you don’t even understand it yourself.
I’m not making that self-contradictory argument. I am making the argument that, based on their political philosophy, these states are rightist – they do not allow for the individual rights and democratic representation that underlie liberal values.
Yes, that is exactly my point. Just because they call themselves socialist or democratic does not mean they are. Actions speak louder than words.
See, you almost get it here. You are so close to understanding why these regimes are rightist – but something stops you. You recognize that they did not adhere to the values of the left, yet reject placing these regimes in their logical place on the far right.
No, it’s because leftists believe in liberal democracy, and rightists believe in a higher authority. No delusion required.
You have no evidence for this. I am on the left, and I believe in equality of opportunity, not results. Equal opportunity has been elusive in the history of the US, and has been the focus of struggle for centuries here.
None of these force equality of outcome, only opportunity. If the left intended to force equality of outcomes, taxes would not be progressive, they would be confiscatory. Welfare would be universal. Housing would be a right. Employment would be a right. Your claim that the left is pursuing equality of outcomes is laughable.
We did, to some degree. Of course not all dissent was silenced (it never is), but the Bush administration did indeed usurp power and run rough shod over the Constitution.
No. I am arguing that abuses such as secret search and seizure and unlawful detention are violations of our rights, and are totalitarian in nature.
I think the distinction between “extraordinary” rendition and the prior practice is quite significant. This is the difference between what is legal, and what is criminal.
Sorry, Alex, but it will take time to reverse the damage to our Republic. After eight years of GWB, I can be patient and let Obama take some time to fix the mess he inherited. So far, I think he is doing a decent job of it.
Peace.
DS
@115. Dr. Mark:
DAVID S,
Nobody is stopping you.
Yes, a small majority of those with a four-year degree did support Bush in 2004. But things have changed…
One group that does correlate closely with Blue voting are holders of post-graduate degrees. In the 2004 election, Kerry got 55% of those who had done postgraduate study compared to 44% for Bush, although Bush that year won among college graduates, 52% to 46%. Now (2006), college voters favor Democrats by eight percent.
The GOP is suffering a brain drain that will only accelerate, barring substantive action to reform the Republican party.
Peace.
DS
PS – “President Bush’s support is found in the states with the lowest education levels. In the 2000 national election, states with lower college graduate populations such as West Virginia (15.1%), Kentucky (18.9%), and Louisiana (19.6%) all voted Republican.
States with highest percentages of college graduates— Connecticut, (36.8%), Massachusetts, (36.6%); and California, (30.6%) voted Democratic.
…
According to ABC News of Nov. 14 [2006], “College graduates voted 53-45 percent for Democrats—the Democrats’ best margin in this group in exit polls since 1982.”
David S @ 114 says:
I’m not making that self-contradictory argument. I am making the argument that, based on their political philosophy, these states are rightist – they do not allow for the individual rights and democratic representation that underlie liberal values.
No David, you are the one that is wrong. I am making the point that it is a damned lie that the left stands for anything but a totalitarian government. You can’t hold the values the left has, especially the need to level the playing field and produce equality of results, and not resort to a totalitarian government to make it so. My point is simply that you speak wth a forked toungue. The left of today does not stand for any of the values that a classical liberal did. Your ideology is based on a pack of lies. That is the only underlying point. Period.
David S @ 114 says:
Then your point is a lie. These people said and claimed to believe the exact things you do, and look what that got the poor shlobs that followed them. If we had even a single instance where people like you promised liberty, justice, equality, and so on, and were able to deliver, you might have a point. But the fact remains that all of these people started of with the crap you believe in and ended up running totalitarian and oppressive states. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. That is my point: collectivism requires a totalitarian state to exist. It has been tried hundreds of times, and the end result is always a totalitarian state. How hard is that to comprehend?
David S @ 114 says:
All I see is a collectivist telling me that all the failed attempts to create a collectivist paradise failed, not because collectivism is a failed ideology, but because of some right wing beliefs. What? Are rape victims really also guilty because they made the rapist rape them? This is called projection and it is disgusting.
David S @ 114 says:
Really David? This sounds like the same crap you read in those collectivist constitutions I linked you to. They too claimed that they where the ones valuing liberal democracy and all that was just and right, and those that where not like them where the ones that where bad. Then they proceeded to do only bad. That sort of reasoning is called a bold lie. Evil people will always tell you they did it for a good cause. That’s watt collectivism is: evil pretending to do or want good.
David S @ 114 says:
And here I thought I talked about a whole slew of things the left has done that contradict your assertion it cares about anything but equality of opportunity. How about you tell me why a progressive tax scheme, affirmative action, and the growth in power under leftist government in order to level the playing field are not signs of the left’s drive to force equality of results? Me I have never felt that the hard work I did to get ahead in life warranted heftier taxation. And it certainly would never occur to me to make the idiotic claim that was equality of opportunity. Opportunity for what? To be robbed at gun point by collectivists that then use my money to buy votes? How noble.
David S @ 114 says:
Move the goal posts some more will ya please? Done wasting time with you.
David S @ 114 says:
And I asked you for one example of an American citizen that was not suspected of working with terrorists or being a terrorist having their rights abused. I certainly did not lose any rights or feel there where any abuses of them. Then again, I did not root for the enemy to defeat my own country because I had some insane mental disorder about the guy in the WH….
David S @ 114 says:
And I am again hearing Bill Clinton talking about what the meaning of the word “is” is. Spin, spin, spin.
David S @ 114 says:
It would appear that idiocy is genetic.
Yes David, having a Ph.D. myself and I suppose I will never fall on that “other side” of simpering, leftist, pro-abortion, anti-military, pro-gay marriage, volvo-driving, pacifist, intellectuals that our graduate schools have been producing. Most products of “higher education” are steeped in the indoctrination of their leftist professors and are more concerned with supporting the rights of “detainees” that their unborn fellow citizens.
This is sadly typical of what the secular left has offered America. Your statistics confuse education with insight and priorities, something graduate school (of any sort) cannot offer.
You had the arrogance to tell another poster to lay off the bong…how about laying off the hallucinagenics?..Sorry David, you would not be able to identify a republic if one landed on you, your socialist vermin of a president and his lackeys like Nancy “I am an ardent Catholic” Pelosi will do more damage to this nation that anything Bush was able to do. David, you are nothing but a troll who belongs at MoveOn or Huffington where your microphallus can be stroked.
Fascism
Current liberals are the heirs to Fascism:
1. Intolerance to any opposition to the Party line.
2. Destruction of the free market.
3. Nationalization of all industry.
4. Government regulation on businesses.
5. Free health care.
Throw in a smattering of good old Nazi Socialism (organic farming, anti-smoking, pro minimum wage, pro abortion, pro euthanasia, gun control, speech codes, racial quotas, animal rights – Yup, the Nazis were all those), and Voila!
You have the Western Liberal.
“No news here. Move along.”
Ditto
“Her camera hones in on more than a few bona fide morons.”
Her camera HOMES in.
If she were sharpening a knife with her camera she’d be HONING the knife with her camera but if she’s pursuing something then it’s HOMING!!!
Cripes, I’ve got to put up with a tsunami of simpering, lefty intellectual titan mangling the language because they’re above such mundane considerations but conservatives get no such consideration. A good tongue-lashing for that sort of sloppiness.
AlexinCT writes: “No David, you are the one that is wrong. I am making the point that it is a damned lie that the left stands for anything but a totalitarian government. You can’t hold the values the left has, especially the need to level the playing field and produce equality of results, and not resort to a totalitarian government to make it so.”
What a stupid argument. By the same token, you can’t hold the values the right has, especially the need to control women’s reproductive rights, oppose objective scientific research, cram religion into the public domain, deny gays their liberty, and not resort to a totalitarian government to make it so.
Do you see what I just did there?
David S: Three questions
1) You stated, “The left believes equality of opportunity is a basic precondition for liberty.” Please explain ‘spread the wealth’ that Obama has stated on more than one occasion, this is not equality of opportunity.
2) You also stated, “Libertarians are leftists – they oppose state control, and prefer “liberal” government.” Explain Ron Paul.
3) With the recently passed “stimulus package” extending government rule, how does that fit into your argument that the left wants smaller government?
PS: You’ve been duped by your party.
#84 Chuck Pelto – I think you owe me an apology. You know who I am and what I believe. To call me a fawning sycophant of Ms. Pelosi is truly insulting.
When I read these posts, I don’t just read them, I remember who wrote them, and what they’ve written in the past. It tells me how much understanding (slack) I should give them. Perhaps you should re-read my entire post, keeping in mind what you know of me.
I chose not to vilify Ms. Pelosi. I saw her the once on Hannity, and my impression was positive. I have not seen her film, so I cannot pre-judge. I gave her the benefit of the doubt, but offered a caveat based on the article. In short, I reserved judgment, like the good-little-religious-conservative that I am. For you to vilify me for being fair-minded is unacceptable, especially when we have supported each others’ views in the past.
This talentless bilge spewer,wouldn’teven have a job if it weren’t for her toxic mommie; It looks like she has a brilliant future as Michael Moore’s gopher.
21. AP:
She’s so ugly she couldn’t even become a nun. Her mother is seeing the Pope to get dispensation for having such an ugly kid.
And her mother is trying to convince the Pope this is the reason she believes in abortion.
She’s almost as ugly as Whoopy Goldberg!
David SSSSssssssss
You got too much time on your hands. Honestly, get a job or start a business or something.
Honestly, get a job or start a business or something
Honestly, Oscar, do you think David S. is capable of such things? Why else do leftists love big government? Can’t cut it in the real world? Get a job in government – or in the humanities department of a university. Then the livin’ is easy,…,
As if Pelosi’s spawn is not abnormal. She and her mother are not role models. She and her mother are a great embarrassment for The United States Of America’s citizens.
131 cybergeezer . . . Perhaps you could post a picture of Mrs Geezer.
Steve P @ 126 says:
What a stupid argument. By the same token, you can’t hold the values the right has, especially the need to control women’s reproductive rights, oppose objective scientific research, cram religion into the public domain, deny gays their liberty, and not resort to a totalitarian government to make it so.
Except Steven P, that you are now distorting the argument. First off, the right is not trying to control any female’s reproductive rights. People that are anti-abortion are against killing unborn people. As someone that has an adopted child I can say that I went from being pro-abortion (and let me be honest, unlike most lib men, that I agreed with that just so I could sleep with as many women as I could without having to worry about it), to being against it. And gays have the same rights everyone else has already. The problem is that they are asking for more new and more rights. Rights with destructive consequences to any society. We also all now how objective and scientific the whole AGW cult that wants to enslave us into world collectivism is. If liberals where so pro-science they would never have embraced collectivism as it directly contradicts the evolution principle explaining natural selection. The list of things libs ignore when it comes to science is long. Try running a real scientific study that deals with the differences between, for example, men and women, and see how fast you end up facing the PC police. So claiming that only the right has politicized or objected to real science is not something libs should not do much off. As for your claim that they are cramming religion into the public domain, I think that you have the wrong culprit. The left has been trying to take religion out of the public place. I am not a very religious person, but I fear the collectivist atheists a lot more than I do most bible thumpers. All they want is for a chance to practice their religion openly. Please explain to me what kind of threat that would be to someone that did not believe in a higher power? The left on the other hand wants to control what religious expression is allowed, through a totalitarian government, mind you. So you will pardon me for not being at all convinced by your weak arguments. For every claim of oppression you level towards the right, there are 10 that go the other way.
The point I made still stands: no form of collectivism, either socialism or communism, can exists without a totalitarian state forcing their capricious wish on everyone. Of the hundreds of attempts by collectivists, claiming to be liberals seeking a more democratic, fair & just, and equal society, in the last century, not a single one has not devolved into a totalitarian state. Even the Western European nations the left wants to remake America into, and our neighbor to the north, Canada, have oppressive rules imposed by some bureaucrats that have no clue, regulating every minutia of the people’s lives. As soon as you try to level the playing field, no matter how noble your motives, you are basically going to have to oppress some people, favor some others, and use force to back both up. That is totalitarian. In the end you end up with places like North Korea and the old USSR and her satellite states eventually, and with something like Greece or Spain on the way to a prison state like North Korea.
Thanks for playing.
Just another “left wing masturbatory circle” foot soldier.
135. one of your own:
In this poll, only 1 out of 137 disagreed. Looks like you lose.
Alex in ct wow thanks for arguing with two Steve P and David PEACE S…my question, although very late in the argument is why David SSS didn’t take on RE in 10…too simple, or too difficult to argue with?
Salut Oscar et Marie Claude…ca-va? et l’acenseur, ou le placard? Hmmm, Je prends la côté de Marie Claude, l’hotel aux champs d’Elysée…Marie Claude, tu ne peux pas dire que l’extreme droite en France n’a pas niée le Shoah! J’ai entendu Le Pen le nier! Peut d’étre j’ai mal compris, mais autrement vous avez raison, l’extreme gauche fait autant peur…et est plus anti-Isreal que la extreme droite. Enfin je suis contents que vous avez fait la paix… Et Marie Claude, un peu plus loin ca peut vous semblez que je vais critiquer la France, mais je critiquerai uniquement quelque
Marc Malone, chuck pelto is clueless, he comes out with a good line once in awhile, but he is out there some place else, this said based on his previous posts. Plus you made a very good point. And even if the woman isn’t physically gifted, isn;t that a bit like kids on the playground saying you’re ugly when they arent sure what else to say? Just state the obvious, and we come up with “No news here, move along”
(I stayed ’cause I’ve been reading the comments…)
Oh David S and Steve P, I totally agree with everything that AlexinCT has argued with you about, you two are either splitting hairs or not really honest with yourselves. Plus, I really like that you, David S, the liberal with all the answers says that you are here to learn something, no you are here because you beleive that you have something to teach the masses and you will maybe be able to convert people to your beliefs…please see Fred and then go check out Mary Grabar’s new rebel arguements, there is a lot of truth in her article. Plus the left of the 1960′s was an ideal, and no ideal is applied perfectly in real planet earth life.
I happen to live in a socialist paradise???? the southwestern part of France, and let me tell you, my children aren’t allowed to mention God or that they believe in God, I’m not talking about preaching, I mean my kids are told that they are not allowed to say alleluia, or mention that they go to cathecism. This is the intolerance that the left preaches by deforming my beliefs into intolerance of other beliefs. You, from your anti higher power(GOD) coments, don’t believe in God, and that is your right. However you do NOT have the right to shut me up because I believe in God. And no, I won’t talk to you anymore here about Him, but I have every right to defend my beliefs.
Did you two genuises know that in France, most people I know that are left thinkers like yourself, are revolted at the label “liberal” ? So maybe you had better check that out, because if you’re such “liberal all across the board guys,” you’re not in the right (no pun intended, well ;0 ) party. A liberal here is what I am: an economic liberal, and a leftist like yourself is either socialist or communist. ( And that is not being slung as an insult, it’s what you are, and would be called, proudly I might add?)
Finally, my three year old daughter was watching a Beethovon film, and I found it truly enlightening to watch, as in the film the mini bad guys were two expresso drinking NY city styled yupees (remember them, end think crisis today…you NYC, investments, anti small business,anti uncultured American backwaters types), and I thought aren’t these the same as the now popular, left leaning NYC latte drinking investment banker types? Anyway, I just thought it kind of fit the whole stero type thing…who would have guessed?
oops, je suis contente, comme je suis toujours une femme, je critiquerai quelque chose qui m’embete, MOI, pas La France elle meme.
Isn’t instead of isn;t
believe instead of beleive
yourselves instead of yourself
remember them and think instead what I typed, it’s hard to be bi-lingual, and parent!)
As a flaming liberal I have to say that I was disappointed with the special. I value fairness in media coverage and this was unlike Pelosis’s other efforts. I do not agree with much of conservatives have to say, but I would like to think that most conservatives are as avid in their love of country as I and in the end hold their opinions because they care about their country as much as I do.
I will say, however, I have seen plenty of comments in Pajama media that mirror what I heard in the documentary. Unfortunately, the idiots on both sides of Dem and Rpublicans, are the ones most easily heard. I would welcome a documentary that highlights liberal idiocy so I know from whom I need to distance myself.
57. David S –
Actually, totalitarianism will appear in the United States from the left, not the right. Open your eyes – you’re ceding your liberty by degrees everyday to leftist, politically correct, dogma. The left clamors to tell us what we should properly think and say, what we should eat, what form of transportation we should use, where we should live, etc. The left’s urge to coercion is apparently boundless. All you moralizing busybodies lack is the power of government to force us to make virtuous decisions. And it’s laughable to assert the left believes in “liberty, fairness and equality.” First of all “fairness” is in the eye of the beholder. Two parties to a disagreement will never agree on what is “fair.” That brings us to “liberty” and “equality.” You pat yourself on the back for believing in both but I’m afraid you’ll have to choose between the two David. Choose liberty or choose equality but you can’t have both. In order to arrange utopian equality for the many you must necessarily limit the freedoms of the many. Equality can be imposed no other way.
@10. RE:
You fail to draw any connection between this film and the public education system. In my experience, public education certainly has flaws, but to claim that indoctrination and socialization can be removed from any school system is ignorant. I do agree that our schools could do a better job teaching logic, reason and critical analysis. Unfortunately there are forces in this country that don’t believe in reason, and would prefer to indoctrinate children with illogical theocratic fantasies.
There is nothing dishonest about what Pelosi is doing here. She is exposing a truth about the GOP that it would be wise to acknowledge. Pelosi is not claiming to search without a thesis – she has a hypothesis, and collects information that bears on it. You may not like her conclusion, but it is evidence based. Can you prove her wrong?
I hate to break it to you, but all governments share this same premise. That is what government is for. A government that does not dictate to anyone is anarchy. The only real debate is about the details of who dictates what to whom.
Live and let live is very much a part of the leftist program. There are many ways in which the right violates this principle, which in my opinion are much more egregious than the compromises favored by the left.
Peace.
DS
@142. 38+P:
It is much more likely that it will come in bits and pieces from both. The right has just made quite a range of contributions.
I disagree with much of your characterization of the left – aside from being a gross generalization, it is also wrong. The left does not clamor to tell you what to think and say – we do support the ACLU, which will defend your choices to say and think whatever you like. The left does not clamor to tell you what to eat – we do support sustainable, organic and inspected food choices for your health, pleasure and safety. The left does not tell you what form of transportation you should use – we do support transportation choices, so that walking, biking, and public transit can be integrated with private autos.
Fairness truly is in the eye of the beholder, but it is not the left that hopes to bend the public laws to a private moral code (re: abortion, gays) to promote a vision of “virtuous decisions”.
The choice between liberty and equality is a false one. Check the Constituion of the USA:
Preamble to the Constitution:
14th Amendment:
I’ll take my liberty and equality together, as prescribed by the US Constitution, thanks.
Peace.
DS
David, Divide, Devoid
Tch, tch tch!
“but to claim that indoctrination and socialization can be removed from any school system is ignorant.”
I’ve seen the leftist school teachers belching out their anti-American rhetoric. It abounds in our high schools and colleges. I don’t think that teaching political points of view is proper in high school. In college I;’m so so about it. However only the left is voiced in our colleges. I’s love to see the right also presented. That would be interesting.
“A government that does not dictate to anyone is anarchy.”
Where is the concept of freedom. I’m sure life must have been great in the USSR. They dictated everything. Tell me how good that was.
“Live and let live is very much a part of the leftist program ”
You just contradicted yourself. Quit trying to play with the children and listen to yourself. You’d be a great joke writer for Jay Leno.
And peace off to you again.
PS excuse my typos.
Marie Claude
I must confess, I’ve had impure thoughts about you. Please forgive me my darling.
David S @ 144 says:
David, you are confounding equal protection under the law with equality of results, which is what the left pushes for, and pretending you have constitutional backing? What a joke! Besides, which party is it that keeps demanding special treatment under the law for special groups, completely violating your claims?
Let me use some simple examples to disprove your assertion you seek equality. Do you believe in or support affirmative action which basically the left tells us favors one group over another? What about the support for same sex marriage where one group is asking for rights nobody else has while claiming they are oppressed? Please explain to me how these two coincide with your claim the left believes in equality. My bet is that you end up perfectly making my point that the left pursues equality of results.
View From Afar
Thank you for all the wonderful things you said about my Marie Claude. Please don’t encourage her. Thanks to Clinton’s legacy, our current economic mess, I can not afford a hotel room.
David S
There is no equality under the law. If you ever served on Jury Duty you would understand what I’m talking about. Black juries will let felons go rather than submit them to white justice. Put that same jury in a case where the accused is white, and they’ll hang him for J walking.
OJ couldn’t be convicted for a double murder because his jury was loaded with blacks. It took him committing another felony in another town to get him convicted of anything. This time he couldn’t load the jury.
Folks, “David S” is a Leftie troll who has been given PJM as an assignment to raise a ruckus in. Don’t feed him. I don’t.
150 Oscar the Grumpiolus . . . Next time you have the chance to talk to a black man, even if it’s 20 years from now, ask him if he’s ever heard the phrase, “Arrested for driving while black.” Or ask him if he’s ever heard of Oscar Grant II. Oscar is the kid who Bay Area Transit cop handcuffed, pushed to the ground, knelt on his neck, and then pulled a gun and shot him in the back.
Do that, Oscar.
Oscar: black juries are fine; although its true that I’d have been in prison with one iota of the evidence aganist OJ, the OJ case was an anomoly and IMHO, primarily due to the Judge, that many called Judge Ego. The prosecutor in the manson case castigates the judge in his book about the OJ case. The rather inept prosecution didn’t help either.
@148. AlexinCT:
I think you may have mistaken me for the strawman you are attacking. I’ve been talking about equality of opportunity from the start, which is what equal protection amounts to.
You misunderstand affirmative action – it doesn’t favor any particular groups. Demographics vary from place to place, but affirmative action always protects a minority population from exclusion. Equal protection. Same sex marriage is about consenting adults being refused the right to choose their spouse. Equal protection. If you don’t understand why these are equal protection cases, let me spell it out.
Affirmative action will protect you from being discriminated against because of your skin color, hair color, gender, or any other non-substantive criteria. Same sex marriage has to be permitted if the state sanctions marriage. Otherwise the state is clearly favoring one group over another by providing the rights and privileges of marriage to one set of partners, and not another.
Equality of results is a farcical strawman that you need to put away if you want anyone to take you seriously. A social safety net is not the same thing as equality of results, despite what you might think.
Peace.
DS
Mister man
He killed a guy named Oscar! That son-of-a-bitch!
Seriously I know what you’re talking about and it sucks. I know people that have been pulled over just for being black. A racist bastard is a racist bastard. On the other hand you know exactly what I’m talking about. Black juries will cut a black man more slack than they will a white. I’ve seen it. I will stick to my position that they will be harder on a white.
Blackwell
“If the glove don ‘t fit you must aquit.” Isn’t that the quote? I’ve lived in northern climates where I had to wear leather gloves. If you got them wet, they shrank and hardened. They were very difficult to put on after that.
Johnny Cochran looked at the black jurors and nodded his head. “You know what you got to do now.” That’s some closing statement. Great summation!
David S @ 154 says:
And I have been making the point that that is a damned lie, and your response proved it. The left does not believe in equality of opportunity at all. No matter how often you or any other leftist says so. That is a bold lie and a myth. The left, like all collectivists and over a century of history proves, is really concerned with forcing equality of results. The most important tenet of any branch of collectivism is that everyone is an equal. The most idiotic thing I have ever heard considering, so everything the left pushes is to right this imbalance. From progressive taxes that punish the more productive (under the argument that they usually stole the money anyway) to an education system that has been dumbed down to the lowest denominator (and I am not even talking about the massive indoctrination that goes on), the left tries to make everyone drones. That’s why it is obvious that all collectivism can deliver is equality of misery: it is the easiest thing to do.
The idiotic answers you gave me, claiming I am mistaking affirmative action, is proof of that. There is no straw man, unless you need to again question the attacker and his motives instead of arguing the point. I think I understand affirmative action much better than what you do. Or at least I am honest about what it really is doing. But then again, the left always pretends that the idiocy it advances is meant to do well, even when it has disastrous results. Affirmative action is basically white lib guilt thinking that reverse racism is somehow a just thing to do, while pretending it is to help people they think are inferior and unable to make it on their own. That’s an attempt to force equality of results, and makes my case. Thanks for playing David.
Yeah, because if you admit this is what collectivists do, then you have to admit you are an idiot, that your ideology can not claim to champion freedom of any kind as well. Keep repeating that assertion that I am not correct about what colelctivism does, you might convince even yourself eventually. I have proven my point, while you have done nothing but put out platitudes and dodges. Take a ride through a century of collectivism, all promising the same pap you do, and all degenerating into totalitarian prison states, where the people get re-educated or made into fertilizer. You do know the definition of insanity don’t you David (when you keep trying to do the exact same thing expecting a different result)?
Who would waste their time watching garbage such as this? Not me.
mister man (what a name, have a problem with your *little guy*?)
Why does every post with you focus on black this or that? Are you one of those blacks that “live” to use their color? Get over yourself already.
I recommend a good therapist.
obama is a treasonous , resentment fueled, left wing hypocrite. from the first time i heard him speak, i knew in my heart he was lying, and would say anything to come out of nowhere, as he has surely done. impeach him now, and avoid future trouble, for us, our nation, and our children
one thing i have learned, is that it really is man to man. racists and bigots come in all shapes and colors, but one thing is the same about them all; they are so full of #@&* (pc for shit) that there’s really only room left for lead.
Wow that show freaked me and my wife out. We live in GA and when we were in HS in 1985 those people on that show were the everyday day people we had to deal with. We went to a school in Stone Mountain. The only reason why the racism died down a little as time moved on because the demographics went from 80% white to 0% white. they all left and moved further out i guess. The only way we are going to get out of this is through the children of the future. My son does not recognize race and doesn’t understand stand the black white thing. hes like “you only like Obama because he is black” First of all I think Obama out debated Mcain period! I like Mcain he is a great guy but for the position Obama out did him. One of these days as people become more educated that they will learn that THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS RACE! MONGOLOID, CAUCASIAN, NEGROID IS ALL CRAP WHICH WAS INVENTED BY THE FIRST so-called SCIENCE CALLED PHRENOLOGY WHICH IS THE STUDY OF THE MIND. THEY TRIED TO CLASSIFY HUMANS INTO RACES THEN THE ANTHROPOLOGIST CAME ALONG AND DISMISSED THEIR FINDINGS AND THAT WHY ANTHROPOLOGY IS REGARDED AS THE FIRST REAL SCIENCE. HUMANS CANNOT BE CLASSIFIED INTO OTHER SPECIES OR RACES OR BREED LIKE DOGS. WE ARE ALL JUST HUMAN WE ARE THE HUMAN RACE. SO THAT’S WHERE RACISM CAME FROM AND THE BOOK OF MORMONS OR OTHER BS DOCTRINES THAT TRY TO SAY THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE EVIL AND WHITE PEOPLE ARE GREAT THAT IS WHAT JUSTIFIED SLAVERY IN THE FIRST PLACE. So after 400 years of slavery and only about 20 years of equality after the civil right movement I think America is cleaning up its act. I am not racist at all but I do know during the times of 30s and 60s was the best time in the the white mans history and all the integration is pissing them off because they feel there existence has been threatened. They feel like this is there country but forget that slaves built this country. They should have sent us back to Africa! We were getting slaughtered during the 30-60s while they got there party on! They are merely trying to preserve that crap. They would love it if America was still in those days. that’s why they are mad!
RE#16 Left wing and retarded: Your special needs teacher called:You are due for your medications both VD and Schizophrenia)plus she says your post can get you nrecommitted to the insane asylum!
From the usual ugly reactions from the usual retards here the filmmaker must have really struck a note.