Has Chavez Quit on Zelaya?
This is odd; Chávez is generally quite loquacious. It may indicate that something is brewing, or perhaps it may mean that Chávez is unhappy with Zelaya and President Arias for having met without his prior approval and is content to leave Zelaya hanging in the wind. On July 10, Chavez complained, apparently without his usual bombast, that the meeting had been a “very dangerous trap for democracy, which set a very serious precedent.”
Chávez’s relative silence may simply indicate that he is very busy with other things. As I wrote here about a month ago, Chávez has numerous domestic problems and they are worsening daily. He now faces more problems internationally as well:
– “Media terrorism,” as to which Chávez’s approach has become increasingly repressive.
– The skyrocketing cost of living in Venezuela. Caracas is now the most expensive city in Latin America. This year it shot up from the 74th to the fifteenth most expensive city in the world. The problem is exacerbated by the low wages in Venezuela.
– Chávez’s own “coup” depriving the opposition mayor of Caracas, elected by a landslide in November of 93 percent, of his budget and of his offices, and appointing his own unelected loyalist as ”super-mayor.” The head of the OAS, although an ally of Chávez, has agreed to meet with opposition leaders after the Honduran crisis is over. Chávez then relented, saying that partial funding will now be provided for the mayor.
– Chavez’s popularity in Venezuela is declining; a recent poll indicates that two-thirds of the people want Chávez out by 2012 when his current term in office ends — or sooner.
– Keeping his allies in line. On July 10, the Revolutionary Marxists of Iran published an open letter to the workers of Venezuela on Hugo Chávez’s support for Ahmadinejad. The letter is well worth reading. It came down very hard on Chávez for supporting the theocracy in Iran. This report was reprinted by at least one Venezuelan news site.
– The “obstinacy” of Brazil in failing thus far to agree to the entry of Venezuela into the Southern Cone Economic Zone (Mercosur) due to “doubts” about the existence of democracy in Venezuela and the refusal of the Venezuelan ambassador to appear before the congress to explain Venezuela’s position.
– The unexpected and very substantial June 28 electoral defeats suffered by the Chávez backed Peronista party in Argentina, prompting the husband of the current president (her immediate predecessor in office) to resign on June 30 as head of the party and casting doubt on whether he will run again for president in the next election.
– Chávez also has continuing problems in Chile.
– Chávez may be preoccupied with what he claims are incipient coups in Nicaragua, El Salvador, and Guatemala. This would be consistent with former President Castro’s assertion the day before that if former President Zelaya “is not returned to his post, a wave of coups threatens to sweep many Latin American governments.”
– Or perhaps Chávez’s head has simply become too large for his red beret and he has a very bad headache.
The list could go on and on. However, what now happens in Honduras probably depends to a great extent on the international power of President Chávez, which seems to be diminishing. Also, as the Venezuelan economy nosedives and repression of the opposition escalates, the domestic resistance to Chávez appears to become better organized and Chávez’s problems increase. Perhaps Chávez has too many balls to juggle all at once; perhaps his balls are inadequate to permit him to juggle them all.
At this point, it seems unlikely that there will be a resolution of the Honduran question acceptable to Chávez, Zelaya, and Castro. The best resolution for the people of Honduras would be for Zelaya to stay away. According to a CID-Gallup poll published on July 9, 41 percent of Hondurans considered Zelaya’s ouster justified while only 28 percent did not. The poll results are consistent with what happened in last year’s presidential primaries: Zelaya endorsed Micheletti’s candidacy and, apparently due to that endorsement, lost in the primary.
Any number of countries — Venezuela, Nicaragua, Argentina, Ecuador, and possibly even the United States — might be happy to grant asylum. Zelaya should take advantages of those opportunities while they last.
Manuel Zelaya is being subtly abandoned by the Obama White House. This silliness is not worth any serious investment of precious political capital by the Anointed One. Purple and red state congressional representatives of both Houses realize that Zelaya doesn’t deserve their support. It’s over. The people of Honduras have won. They must simply continue keeping a stiff upper lip and not back down. Also, with friends like Hugo Chavez—Zelaya didn’t need any enemies. This was ultimately the kiss of death.
A quite chavez is a dangerous chavez…. theirs no doubt he’s up to something the only question is what. More then likely he is dealing with as obama put it “the very bad precedent” of ppl demanding their elected officials obey the law.
Hondarus gave alot of ppl alot of ideas and none of those ideas sit well with ppl like chavez. I’d expect to see a serious crack done coming in the future.
>As I wrote here about a month ago, Chávez has numerous domestic problems and they are worsening daily.
Yeah, what a crying shame it would be if outer provinces of Venezuela tore a page of the Honduran book.
Call it the Onimod Theory, for Domino spelled backwards.
I agree. This may amplify the point a bit. The United States Congress split along party lines immediately following the 28 June “coup.” The Democrats, along with President Obama, favored Zelaya’s immediate return to power and Republicans opposed it.
Positions in the Congress now seem to be shifting away from Zelaya. Rep. Eliot Engel (D-N.Y.), chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere, who had earlier called for Zelaya’s immediate reinstatement, recently came to understand that Zelaya had ignored his country’s Supreme Court, legislature and even members of his own political party. “When the entire political establishment speaks and expresses dire concerns, the President needed to listen. From everything I can see, he did not.”
No,Chavez hasn’t quit on Honduras,which is key to the Chavez-Castro-Ortega-Obama plan to make Central and South America Marxist–not to mention Norte Amerika.
Our economy is following hard on the heels of Venezuela’s and for the same reason.
All these dictators love these “distractions” for their citizen. Including obama.
The Honduran government is negotiating with Zelaya? This is why I can’t be a bureaucrat. I can’t imagine what there might be to negotiate.
Chavez and Castro still have a strategic goal of getting the US out of Honduras and the air base at Palmerola, and this has been at the core of their entire Honduran offensive. They are now trying to guilt Obama into withdrawing troops; this would be recompense for Obama’s supposedly providing tacit support to the coup via his cautious actions. Chavez is also trying to play Hillary against Obama by blaming her specifically for supporting the Arias process. He has also said, by the way, that the Honduran army is small and that the time has come for an ALBA military force.
Zelaya is the pawn; the goal is Palmerola.
Plenty to negotiate. What caliber bullet he gets executed with if he returns. Whether it’ll be a headshot or something that allows for an open casket. If they’ll bury him in secret so furious mobs won’t desecrate his final resting place…
“They are now trying to guilt Obama into withdrawing troops”
Barack Obama can’t pull this off. He is perceived to be a failure regarding the economy. The irony is that Obama nows has his sixty U.S. senators—and still won’t be able to do much with them. Red and purple state politicians are running for the hills. Obama is on his own except for the very safe, blue state elected officials. That’s just not enough to get things accomplished in Washington, D.C.
Hondourian constitution wins…
Democracy 1..obama 0
However, do not be fooled..Obama and Chavez probably still have little quiet talks about taking over the world, one consititution at a time.
Seeing that photo – for a moment there, I thought it was Curtis Sliwa. Has anyone seen the two of them in the same room at the same time?
Meanwhile: it’s worrying that Obama supports the Iranian Supreme Leader while opposing the Honduran Supreme Court. How does he manage to get his Supremes decisions backwards? Thank God Diana Ross is now a solo artist.
Obama listens to polls and pols.
They tell him he’s a loser if this nonsense continues.
They also tell him that they will not go down with his ship.
Bye Bye obie.
Again, I ask for all those Obama supporters out there- You know who you are, please provide solid evidence that Obama in NOT a Marxist. Pat J, Sheesh….. come on guys, don’t wimp out on us. You can do it.
Chavez hasn’t quit. This guy is shrewd and dangerous. Since before Zelaya’s removal a plan b has been in place. There are many Venezuelan,Cuban and Nicaraguans inside Honduras illegaly. They are going to try and create disturbances and would like to get a riot with massive bloodshed. He will use this blood later to manipulate other countries so they dont do as Honduras has done. Or he will manipulate United States to help him the next time a country throws out a dictator.
Honduras can negotiate with Zelaya. They can offer him amnesty for a solution that the international community can accept to remove all the financial sanctions. At the same time he can give up the dirt on Insulza at the OAS and on Chavez. He can help the world make a Noriega out of Chavez so the Venezuelans can be free. Z’liar would have to rat on Chavez.
Palmerola? They are just pressuring Obama in to doing something to prove he is against the Zelaya removal. I visit the base frequently. It is not a military base. They only have transport helicopters. They do humanitarian missions in Central America.
The USA offered a bone when they said some military activities were suspended.
1. no joint military practing with Honduran military. Of course not they are too busy maintaining the peace in the country.
2. The soldiers arent allowed off base to go look for local women in the discos.
3. I cant go play softball on the base against the gringos.
In 1948, Winston Churchill wrote The Gathering Storm. It dealt with events leading up to World War II. Speaking of Neville Chamberlain, he of “peace in our time” fame, Churchill wrote:
“Statesmen are not called upon only to settle easy questions. These often settle themselves. It is where the balance quivers and the proportions are veiled in mist, that the opportunity for world-saving decisions presents itself.”
In my view, President Obama has, thus far, made rather a pig’s breakfast of even the “easy questions;” he has made an even worse muddle of the difficult ones, and seems to have missed many opportunities to make “world-saving” decisions to the benefit of the United States.
This has echoes of what happened in Uganda, during the last days of Idi Amin being its head. The granting of asylum has to be part of a larger package between Honduras and where Zelaya winds up.
The people of honduras have won this one. even the marxists on the huffington post have gone quiet.
all reasonable and sane people could see that this was a thing that needed to be done. chavez had to be stopped somewhere, and this was as good a place as any.
i only hope that obama learned something from this. he is reaching too far, trying to change too much and not helping the country at all. the government needs to be spending less now, not more.
President Obama has no more political capitial to spend; like Porkulus & the ever rising national unemployment rate, currently 9.5%, President Obama believed he could fly when he can barely walk. He is still in campaign mode, yet this seems to be wearing thin now. One of his precious teleprompters broke while he was speaking somewhere. Is this a sign? He cracked.
What happens to useful idiots when they’re no longer useful? (Hey, Zelaya, you might want to learn how to say “Do you want fries with that?”)
I’ve got to think that Obama first acted on his instincts in denouncing the “coup” but now realizes that outside a small circle of friends taking a stand with Chavez, Castro, Ortega, et al. isn’t doing anything good for his image. Having Chavez call him up to demand that he do something? Priceless!
If the facts of Zelaya’s ouster got out to the public, Obama would look either incompetent in understanding foreign affairs — or fatally weak in supporting dictators over democratic governments. As my wife and daughters hail from La Ceiba, I give many thanks to PJM for not letting the issue die. You are not mainstream, but this news should be — and the threat that it may reappear, along with the facts, on the national scene may have been enough to spook Obama & Hillary into “moving on”.
What’s silly is that everyone… including us expects the president to have an imeadiate opinion about everything. No time to think, to calculate.
If I were always judged by my snap pronouncements then I would not be judged by my better self but rather by my my prejudices, and my erros.
I am grateful that I more often than not have time to wait and give a more reasoned response. That’s what I prefer to be judged on.
What President Obama should have done was wait a bit and give a more thoughtful response… but would we/I/you have given him the time or criticized him for evading the issue?
Fact is Chavez already shot his load. He doesn’t have the logistical capacity to carry out his initial threat of military force and the Hondurans are well aware of the illegal issue as that already little “dirty trick” has been reported. So he is licking his wounds and trying to find a way around this mess. And with the Repubs actually standing their ground and backing the right side of this issue, Obama has to back down as he has bigger fish to fry and virtually no momentum left as he has been losing Democrats for his key policies almost as fast as ACORN files false voter registrations.
Funny how no one cared when Bush pulled a coup with the assistance of the extremist right-wing Supreme Court, which is why the right-wing hates Sotomayor so much, because she is a moderate who won’t kowtow to the religious right like Scalia, Thomas, Roberta, and Alito.
Dan Miller,
Well researched and written. All in all it is music to my ears. For the most part it was fairly orthodox, but I got to hand it to you for this line.
“Perhaps Chávez has too many balls to juggle all at once; perhaps his balls are inadequate to permit him to juggle them all.”
LOL
Franco from BC
“What President Obama should have done was wait a bit and give a more thoughtful response… but would we/I/you have given him the time or criticized him for evading the issue?”
Uhh….if he was an actual leader instead of a roleplaying pretender, he would have the ability to actually THINK of a thoughtful response and would certainly not be terribly concerned about whether or not I would give him the time to think or criticize.
It’s amazing how endlessly “understanding” people are willing to be where His Empty-Suitedness is concerned. It’s getting to the point where I wonder if he even needs the MSM. Enough of the population seems to be quite willing to give him a pass on everything normally required of national leaders.
He’s an ignorant, dangerous fool, and I will not accept that I have to act like I don’t recognize that.
Are you all skin heads or what?
#23 It is not too much to expect from the POTUS to have a timely & appropriate response. The president is not just one man. He has a whole team of smart people working through these issues even before they happen. There are also plenty of people on the ground to help get the facts. Decisive decisions in the heat of the moment are what divide the leaders from the wannabes.
Thanks for the link to the letter from the Revolutionary Marxists of Iran, who actually have figured out that Ahmadinejad is the left’s enemy. I’ve long been baffled why any leftists have ever wanted anything to do with Muslims. Other than anti-Americanism, they have nothing in common. And even their anti-Americanism is differently motivated. Leftists hate America because of its capitalism and imperialism, while Muslims hate America because it prevents the Muslims from being the imperialists.
According to this article, negotiations between the Zelaya and Micheletti teams are set to resume on Saturday, 18 July, in Costa Rica. Speaking from Nicaragua, Zelaya said that if those talks do not “produce results,” he will pay “any cost” to reclaim the presidency. Zelaya did not say how or where he plans to accomplish this.
Here is an Op Ed piece from the Miami Herald about the current nature of the OAS.
How smart would have been for Obama to come out immediately and stated he supports a coup in Latin America considering the history related to coups in that region?
Screw Chavez. The man is a sideshow clown and holds no sway outside Venezuela despite what some think. Even red Daniel Ortega in Nicaragua told Chavez to keep away from stumping for him in the elections because he knew it would hurt him. Ignore him and he disappears.
Middleman, it may not have been “smart” for President Obama to come out immediately to support the “coup.” However, I don’t think it was “smart” for him to come out immediately to label it “not legal” and to join in demands for the immediate reinstatement of former President Zelaya.
If President Obama wants to meddle in Latin American affairs, he could at least try to learn what’s going on before shaking the Presidential stick. Perhaps, then he might offer support, at least behind the scenes, to the good guys. Giving his knee-jerk support to the chavistas was, in my view, perverse but typical.
As to Chavez, I tried in the article to point out some of the ways in which he is going down hill, both domestically and internationally. By not only taking Chavez seriously, but also supporting his Honduran position, President Obama may decelerate the down hill slide.
JFP, #30: I’ve long been baffled why any leftists have ever wanted anything to do with Muslims. Other than anti-Americanism, they have nothing in common.
The Western Left and Islamic supremacists aren’t so much allied with each other, as that both parties are playing the other for “useful idiots”, and neither side has figured out that it’s been played yet. How ironic, yet fitting it would be that a group like the Revolutionary Marxists of Iran could end up being the ones to blow the lid off the whole thing.
#28, Anonimous: I can hear the Flight of the Valkryies as musical accompaniment to your retort. After all, your perspective is being challenged.
23. samuel – Free Hunting Trips wrote:
What President Obama should have done was wait a bit and give a more thoughtful response… but would we/I/you have given him the time or criticized him for evading the issue?
Peter writes: The Won had all the time in the world to make a thoughtful, informed decision about the pro-democracy protesters in Iran, and what side did he come down on? The theocratic mulla Supreme Leader who basically called for the death penalty against the protesters.
What makes you think Obama’s decision would have been any different if he had waited a few days? He most likely STILL would have voiced his support for the constitution-crushing, Supreme Court and Legislature-ignoring dictator-for-life-in-the-making.
Chavez has been buying a load of military equipment for years. His popularity is plumeting. A military adventure might be just the ticket to prop him up. Here is Honduras to give him a target.
It would distract the populace, exite them with prospective victories and on top of it all it makes a great national emergency. What better way to “never wast a crisis” by suppressing political opposition at home and perhaps suspending elections for the duration of the “emergency”.
To 37. Michael
Thats the thing I worry about. Ppl seem to think you need some massive logistical program to wage war so “far away”. Clearly they seem to forget that europe managed to wage war over here just find for only past few hundred years. If chavez really wanted to he could easily invade hondarus. Winning outright will likely be hard but nothing that some raping and pillaging can’t handle.
Everyone on this comment page needs to calm down. No one in Honduras or in the US really LIKES Zelaya, but that’s not the point. It’s the dangerous precedent of having him overthrown by the military, as opposed to impeached or removed from office in a legal manner, that has caused Obama to reluctantly back him as the legitimate president.
As for Chavez, he’s overplayed his hand. As the article says, he has serious domestic problems at home, and the Hondurans dislike him at least as much as they dislike the leaders of the coup. As they should.
Quiet diplomacy by the US and Costa Rica has a far better chance of solving this constitutional crisis. There’s no Marxist conspiracy here, just an attempt to ensure that democracy survives in Honduras.
To 39. joeskeys
Are you retarded or something…. the military even in the US is perfectly legally able to remove someone from office if given a lawful order to do so…
Your massive ignorance of law is just simply astounding.
I am so glad I found this page,
I felt so abandoned by the American people because of what Obama said. I am glad to see that people do understand what is going on in my country and are not giving my people the cold shoulder.
I think this is the beginning of Chavez’s end. that is why he is so pissed, like fidel castro says, this opens the door for other coups in latin america.
and his is right, people will finely stand up for themselves, against socialist nuts like chavez
We label things simplistically, and then accept the label as dispositive. Sometimes, as in the case of the Honduran “coup,” that is a silly and unfortunate procedure. If I correctly conclude that all horses, milk cows, bulls and chickens are animals, decide on that basis that they are the same in all other respects, and accordingly try to ride my chicken out to the field to rope my bull and then try to milk him, it is entirely foreseeable that I will experience difficulties.
To 41. Emma
Your not alone and if chavez decides to invade even if the US army isn’t allowed to help many ex-us army and such will keep up a tradition that started with the opening shots of our fight vs england… the tradition of the US mercenary who fights for freedom. Many will travel to honduras if they open the doors and welcomes them. Honduras will not be short of troops to fight should chavez get stupid.
Former President Zelaya today called for insurrection. He addressed his supporters in Honduras from a press conference with Guatemalan President Alvaro Colom. Zelaya said that insurrection is legitimate “when faced with a usurping government and a coup-supporting military. . . . [W]hen the democratic order of a country is disrupted. . . .I want to tell you to not leave the streets, that is the only space that they have not taken from us.” Zelaya called for strikes, marches, takeovers, and civil disobedience.
Speaking earlier in Nicaragua, Zelaya had pledged to pay “any cost” to reclaim the presidency.
It seems likely, if these things transpire, that Zelaya will not be the only Honduran paying the costs. It also seems that he has either given up hope on further negotiations in Costa Rica, or is blustering to persuade the interim Government to change its mind about his reinstatement.
I’ve noticed how Honduras has left the news lately. As for Chavez. Obama actually put him in his place by also being against the coup. As far as Zelaya is concerned, nobody really like him but just about every country I can think of agrees the way he was overthrown violated international law and sets a bad precedent for Cental America.
To 45. Pat J
Obama actually put him in his place by also being against the coup.
hmmm lets see obama response to chavez.
obama: slurp slurp slurp… you can go in my mouth if you want chavez I don’t mind.
Chavez: Get back to work obama.
Pat J: Yeah obama showed him what for….
Exactly how did obama put chavez in his place…..or for that matter castro and all the rest of the petty dictators in south Am… I have yet to see where obama was forbid military force to reinstall zelaya either…
Victory Has 1000 Fathers – Defeat is an Orphan – Wise Chinese Proverb. Works well “en Espanol” or in English as well. Once the Provisional Honduran government blocked Zelaya’s return at the Tegucigalpa Airport – game, set and match unless an outside power invades. I highly doubt that Venezuela can, or the US would do so. That is all.
-S-
39. joeskeys wrote:
It’s the dangerous precedent of having him overthrown by the military
Peter writes: Try and keep up with the discussion, will you?
Zelaya was NOT overthrown by the military. Zelaya broke Honduran constitutional law by attempting to continue in office indefinitely, in spite of the constitution’s strict term limits. He was trying to set himself up as dictator for life, much as Chavez has done in Venezuela. The Honduran legislature immediately terminated his presidency, the Honduran supreme court backed up their decision by citing constitutional law. The military only made sure Zelaya knew in which direction to exit the door. They did not install a member of the military to take over as president (a member of Zelaya’s own political party was sworn in to replace him), they did not crack down on the country and impose martial law, they did nothing to take over. They only followed the directions of the country’s legally elected leaders to enforce an existing law on a law-breaker.
In short, there was NO military overthrow, as you describe it.
Pat J: The removal of Zelaya violated international law? International??? This was an internal matter and it’s hard to know how international law gets invoked in such a case.
As for the disapproval of nearly every country, I confess that my first reaction on hearing of a coup was to think that this was the usual Latin American tragedy, until I read the details and realized that it was a perfectly sensible course of action on the Hondurans’ part.
45. Pat J wrote:
As far as Zelaya is concerned, nobody really like him but just about every country I can think of agrees the way he was overthrown violated international law and sets a bad precedent for Cental America.
Peter asks: Please show me an “international law” that trumps the sovereignty of an independant nation? The Honduran constitution says there are term limits, and any politician that tries to change that law must be removed from office. The Honduran legislature followed their law, removing Zelaya as their constitution proscibed.
If the international community decided that they preferred Bush as US President (I know, a laughable idea, but I needed an example), and the US voted Obama into office, would you still state “international law” trumps our own citizens decisions to replace their own leader?
Dan Miller makes a lot of sense:
“As I wrote here about a month ago, Chávez has numerous domestic problems and they are worsening daily.”
The country is going downhill and he’s fighting for his survival, an uphill battle. If his ego and patriotism allow him, he should do something positive about Venezuela while he can.
Let’s see. The military kidnap him at gunpoint and send him on a plane to Costa Rica. Another country. Thereby a violation of international law.
In addition,…
“The coup is in violation of the Inter-American Democratic Charter, which was signed in Lima, Peru, in 2001. This charter, affirming defense of democracy in the hemisphere, has been ratified by all member states of the Organization of American States (OAS). Article 9 of the charter specifically addresses coups and the actions to be taken—including suspension from OAS membership—as a result of an illegal takeover of government. Not one government in the Americas has recognized the newly installed government, all citing it as an illegal entity in violation of international law.”
http://csis.org/publication/military-coup-honduras-under-what-circumstances-did-president-manuel-zelaya-leave-hondur
To 53. Pat J
Really once again are you retarded… their was no coup and the arrest was legal…. so article 9 of the OAS is meaningless…. even more meaningless is because nothing in article states what or how to define “illegal overthrow”.
Since we know for a fact that Honduras military acted legally and that their is a complete following of the honduras constitution nothing illegal happened thus even if article had some valid power to be an issue(which it doesn’t) it doesn’t matter.
International law is meaningless from the get go to start out with… more when your talking about petty social club international law.
54. robotech master:
———————-
So if it wasn’t a coup, why didn’t their Congress and Supreme Court go ahead and insist on impeachment proceedings? I’m not arguing Zelaya didn’t broke the law himself. The ballets for the referendum were made in Caracas, Venezuela. There was something fishy about it.
But when the military takes matters in its own hands, it’s a coup. Even a robotmaster could figure that out.
52. Pat J wrote:
Let’s see. The military kidnap him at gunpoint and send him on a plane to Costa Rica. Another country. Thereby a violation of international law.
Peter writes: Now let’s write it form the Honduran point of view;
The military escorted a constitutional law breaker out of the country where he committed his crime to make sure something worse, like lynching, didn’t happen to him for his own safety.
Perhaps you would have preferred Zaleya get the treatment a number of his citizens initially called for, which was summary execution?
53. Pat J wrote:
“The coup is in violation of the Inter-American Democratic Charter, which was signed in Lima, Peru, in 2001. This charter, affirming defense of democracy in the hemisphere, has been ratified by all member states of the Organization of American States (OAS).
Peter writes: The OAS? You mean the same socialist organization that backs murderous dictators and thugs like Chaves and Castro, that has cried bloody murder over the citizens of a sovereign country deposing an attempted dictator-for-life from assuming total control? That OAS?
To 55. Pat J
Ummm you understand that impeachment proceedings were followed and that the military acted under those proceedings?
I’m always amazed by ppl who don’t know the first thing about law or understand that each country HAS DIFFERENT LAWS, PROCEDURES AND A HOST OF OTHER ISSUES.
The military could have shoot him on the spot and if the law says they can then thats following the procedures… ppl seems to think that you have to have 8 years of hearings and other BS… even in the US impeachment can take hours… maybe even minutes depending on the issue….
You also don’t need to impeach even in the US to remove a sitting “president”….
There is word from Honduras that it has been recently confirmed that there is oil in commercial amounts in the northern coast of Honduras. If that is true, it makes perfect sense that Zelaya and Hugo Chávez so desesperately want to control Honduras. If Chávez can control Honduras, it will be easy for him to control the rest of the democratic Central American countries.
The Honduran Constitution does not contemplace impeachment.
the answer to the question is a resounding “NO”…he’s and Bo are just layin’ low…
55. Pat J wrote:
So if it wasn’t a coup, why didn’t their Congress and Supreme Court go ahead and insist on impeachment proceedings?
Peter asks: Whose constitution are you saying they should use? Ours or the Hondurans?
While impeachment may be the best option according to the US CONSTITUTION, the HONDURAN CONSTITUTION states that if a president tries to extend his administration beyond proscribed term limits, they are to be removed from office immediately.
Venezuelan President Chávez is a democratically elected leader, yet the western media continues to print propaganda about him, and the sheep believe it all. that’s not to say he is w/out flaw, but who is, after all eve Reagan sold arms to Iran. its all about oil and money.
57. Peter the Bubblehead:
—————–
The OAS does not back Cuba. It is technically a member but the OAS rejects Cuba’s Marxist dictatorship as inncompatible with the organization’s mission.
In addition the treaty I mentioned above was signed by Honduras and trumps the coup making it inllegal under international law.
64. Pat J wrote:
In addition the treaty I mentioned above was signed by Honduras and trumps the coup making it inllegal under international law.
Peter writes: I’ll type this slowly so even Pat can understand…
There…
was…
no…
coup…
The government of Honduras follwed the law as it is written in the Honduran Constitution. Zelaya BROKE the law by trying to change term limits. The HONDURAN Constitution states he can be removed from office for trying to do such, he was removed, the removal was and remains legal.
Again, repeat after me…
There…
was…
no…
coup!
To 64. Pat J
I would suggest you review the OAS charter and international law…. the OAS has as much power to make the “coup” in Honduras as the girl scouts of American does…
The phrase “international law” has often struck me as an oxymoron. Without an effective enforcement mechanism, laws are meaningless to those who decide not to abide by them. North Korea, Iran and many other countries certainly appear to think so.
If there is no sheriff or other police force, if I think it’s OK to steal chickens to feed my family, and if nobody I care about disagrees, then I guess I can steal chickens with impunity — unless the owner of the chickens or somebody else decides to “take the law into his own hands” and shoots me.
In any event, since Honduras resigned from, and was then was suspended by, the OAS (which it had joined under former President Zelaya), what the OAS says probably does not, and should not, matter unless Honduras thinks it should. Other than its various sanctions and the PR significance of its rhetoric, the OAS has no real power. If Honduras wants to assert its sovereign independence, isn’t much bothered by sanctions, and doesn’t care about adverse publicity, and if no other country intervenes with force, then it is (and should be) up to Honduras.