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	<title>Comments on: Has Britain Lost Its Marbles on Fighting Terror?</title>
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		<title>By: roGER</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/has-britain-lost-its-marbles-on-fighting-terror/#comment-144620</link>
		<dc:creator>roGER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=37028#comment-144620</guid>
		<description>Carol Gould writes:

&quot;I think you misinterpreted my article. I am trying to illustrate the brilliance of the British intelligence services and police at thwarting some colossal and horrific terror plots.&quot;

This is disengenous to say the least - the article is a hysterical and rather paranoid rant in favour of locking people up without charge for 42 days, and a rather ugly attack on Andrew Gilligan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carol Gould writes:</p>
<p>&#8220;I think you misinterpreted my article. I am trying to illustrate the brilliance of the British intelligence services and police at thwarting some colossal and horrific terror plots.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is disengenous to say the least &#8211; the article is a hysterical and rather paranoid rant in favour of locking people up without charge for 42 days, and a rather ugly attack on Andrew Gilligan.</p>
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		<title>By: jonesy55</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/has-britain-lost-its-marbles-on-fighting-terror/#comment-143036</link>
		<dc:creator>jonesy55</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 16:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=37028#comment-143036</guid>
		<description>So why are you living in France then if it&#039;s so terrible and you run the risk of being sent to a gulag at any time?

The answer would seem to be either:

a) You are an extremely foolish person

or

b) What you say is a complete exaggeration/misrepresentation of the real situation.

You can also be jailed in the UK before trial, it&#039;s called remand.

You seem to be saying that it would be better if criminals could escape justice by crossing national borders, what kind of message does that send out to potential felons?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So why are you living in France then if it&#8217;s so terrible and you run the risk of being sent to a gulag at any time?</p>
<p>The answer would seem to be either:</p>
<p>a) You are an extremely foolish person</p>
<p>or</p>
<p>b) What you say is a complete exaggeration/misrepresentation of the real situation.</p>
<p>You can also be jailed in the UK before trial, it&#8217;s called remand.</p>
<p>You seem to be saying that it would be better if criminals could escape justice by crossing national borders, what kind of message does that send out to potential felons?</p>
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		<title>By: David H</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/has-britain-lost-its-marbles-on-fighting-terror/#comment-140795</link>
		<dc:creator>David H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 15:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=37028#comment-140795</guid>
		<description>Excuse me, as a Brit living in France I can tell you that in Europe you can be banged up in jail for years while they work on the case.   And you as a Brit are subject to that if you carry out a criminal act that will get you arrested in one of the other European countries due to EU law.   Why are people so ignorant about just how illiberal Europe as a whole is?

Its simple, in the UK before the EU you used to be free and the state created laws to constrain behaviour, in France and the rest you are given by the state certain freedoms by law, big difference and not many people seem to work that out!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excuse me, as a Brit living in France I can tell you that in Europe you can be banged up in jail for years while they work on the case.   And you as a Brit are subject to that if you carry out a criminal act that will get you arrested in one of the other European countries due to EU law.   Why are people so ignorant about just how illiberal Europe as a whole is?</p>
<p>Its simple, in the UK before the EU you used to be free and the state created laws to constrain behaviour, in France and the rest you are given by the state certain freedoms by law, big difference and not many people seem to work that out!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/has-britain-lost-its-marbles-on-fighting-terror/#comment-140585</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 06:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=37028#comment-140585</guid>
		<description>42 days inprisonment without trial or charge is wholly unneccesary, no other western country deems it appropriate to trample on freedoms in such a way so why the UK?

The government says that we are more of a target than other western countries, if that is the case, maybe we should be asking why.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>42 days inprisonment without trial or charge is wholly unneccesary, no other western country deems it appropriate to trample on freedoms in such a way so why the UK?</p>
<p>The government says that we are more of a target than other western countries, if that is the case, maybe we should be asking why.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol Gould</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/has-britain-lost-its-marbles-on-fighting-terror/#comment-140290</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Gould</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=37028#comment-140290</guid>
		<description>No 32:
I think you misinterpreted my article. I am trying to illustrate the brilliance of the British intelligence services and police at thwarting some colossal and horrific terror plots. The courage of young Mr Smeaton and others at Glasgow on 30 June 2007 harked back to the bravery of Blitz Britain. In turn it is outrageous for Gilligan to suggest that we in Britain be put at risk because of the bank failures.  I have been a British taxpayer and ratepayer, and sometimes even VAT-payer for thirty-two years as a permanent resident of London, and think it reasonable to put pen to paper and &#039;tell them how to run their country,&#039; inasmuach as I am, after all, one of &#039;them&#039; having to survive in this country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No 32:<br />
I think you misinterpreted my article. I am trying to illustrate the brilliance of the British intelligence services and police at thwarting some colossal and horrific terror plots. The courage of young Mr Smeaton and others at Glasgow on 30 June 2007 harked back to the bravery of Blitz Britain. In turn it is outrageous for Gilligan to suggest that we in Britain be put at risk because of the bank failures.  I have been a British taxpayer and ratepayer, and sometimes even VAT-payer for thirty-two years as a permanent resident of London, and think it reasonable to put pen to paper and &#8216;tell them how to run their country,&#8217; inasmuach as I am, after all, one of &#8216;them&#8217; having to survive in this country.</p>
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		<title>By: RJM</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/has-britain-lost-its-marbles-on-fighting-terror/#comment-139330</link>
		<dc:creator>RJM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 10:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=37028#comment-139330</guid>
		<description>No. 36

That would be your conclusion based on...? What, exactly?

Northern Ireland, perhaps? Where the Brits fought a low-intensity urban guerilla war against two well-organized factions for over 30 years, eventually bringing a peace to the benighted place?

the operation was fought against the background of major funding - millions of $ - being raised in the UK&#039;s main ally and directed to the planning, construction and implementation of bombing campaigns, including against city centers on the mainland; against pubs and bars packed full of innocent people, as well as directly against the regular military. It achieved peace without resorting to raizing whole districts to the ground and abandoned detention without trial and arbitrary arrest as counter-productive.

And did so in the face of opposition from its main ally, the US.

And as for the current economic crisis - it is the UK&#039;s Prime Minister who came out with the plans that pretty much the whole developed world is now following to get through it.

Not that this is an argument for supporting 42-day detention without charge. In the US, the maximum period of detention is 48 hours, is it not (correct me if I&#039;m mistaken). 28 days is too long; 42 days would be abandonment of individual rights.

No stones? Get informed, get real, get a life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No. 36</p>
<p>That would be your conclusion based on&#8230;? What, exactly?</p>
<p>Northern Ireland, perhaps? Where the Brits fought a low-intensity urban guerilla war against two well-organized factions for over 30 years, eventually bringing a peace to the benighted place?</p>
<p>the operation was fought against the background of major funding &#8211; millions of $ &#8211; being raised in the UK&#8217;s main ally and directed to the planning, construction and implementation of bombing campaigns, including against city centers on the mainland; against pubs and bars packed full of innocent people, as well as directly against the regular military. It achieved peace without resorting to raizing whole districts to the ground and abandoned detention without trial and arbitrary arrest as counter-productive.</p>
<p>And did so in the face of opposition from its main ally, the US.</p>
<p>And as for the current economic crisis &#8211; it is the UK&#8217;s Prime Minister who came out with the plans that pretty much the whole developed world is now following to get through it.</p>
<p>Not that this is an argument for supporting 42-day detention without charge. In the US, the maximum period of detention is 48 hours, is it not (correct me if I&#8217;m mistaken). 28 days is too long; 42 days would be abandonment of individual rights.</p>
<p>No stones? Get informed, get real, get a life.</p>
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		<title>By: Chester White</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/has-britain-lost-its-marbles-on-fighting-terror/#comment-139161</link>
		<dc:creator>Chester White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 02:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=37028#comment-139161</guid>
		<description>The UK is done for.

It may take a few years, but the bad guys will never stop and Brits will never summon the stones to resist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The UK is done for.</p>
<p>It may take a few years, but the bad guys will never stop and Brits will never summon the stones to resist.</p>
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		<title>By: RJM</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/has-britain-lost-its-marbles-on-fighting-terror/#comment-139079</link>
		<dc:creator>RJM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 00:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=37028#comment-139079</guid>
		<description>As a matter of interest, how long does the US allow people to be detained without trial or any due process?
Am I right in thinking the answer is 48 hours?

The 42-day proposal is to detain, without trial or access to lawyers.

That is an obscenity, an offence to democracy, something that would not be tolerated in the US.

So why does the lady columnist argue that it should be passed, in a faraway country of which she obviously knows little? 

The existing law is for 28 days and that&#039;s bad enough - something decent Brits are ashamed of. It&#039;s the longest period of incarceration and isolation in the West.

42 days would have taken the country another step down the road towards police state. Oh, and please don&#039;t say or attempt to argue that it would only be used against &#039;proven terrorists&#039;; by definition, it&#039;s intended to give the police time to &#039;gather evidence&#039; - that&#039;s right, arrest them, lock them up and then try to find something against them. Most of those arrested or detained under existing legislation are set free, without any charge whatsoever - but have the suspicion of terrorism hanging over them indefinitely.

The UK government used the Crime, Security and Prevention of Terrorism Act to freeze Icelandic assets when their banks went down the tubes. There is an ongoing inquest (cause of death hearing) into the killing of Jean Charles de Menezes, an innocent electrician who was &#039;mistaken for a terrorist suspect&#039; and shot seven times in the head on a rush-hour subway train.

Do not lecture the Brits on detention without trial - they may take notice, as they did with such huge success (NOT) in Northern Ireland.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a matter of interest, how long does the US allow people to be detained without trial or any due process?<br />
Am I right in thinking the answer is 48 hours?</p>
<p>The 42-day proposal is to detain, without trial or access to lawyers.</p>
<p>That is an obscenity, an offence to democracy, something that would not be tolerated in the US.</p>
<p>So why does the lady columnist argue that it should be passed, in a faraway country of which she obviously knows little? </p>
<p>The existing law is for 28 days and that&#8217;s bad enough &#8211; something decent Brits are ashamed of. It&#8217;s the longest period of incarceration and isolation in the West.</p>
<p>42 days would have taken the country another step down the road towards police state. Oh, and please don&#8217;t say or attempt to argue that it would only be used against &#8216;proven terrorists&#8217;; by definition, it&#8217;s intended to give the police time to &#8216;gather evidence&#8217; &#8211; that&#8217;s right, arrest them, lock them up and then try to find something against them. Most of those arrested or detained under existing legislation are set free, without any charge whatsoever &#8211; but have the suspicion of terrorism hanging over them indefinitely.</p>
<p>The UK government used the Crime, Security and Prevention of Terrorism Act to freeze Icelandic assets when their banks went down the tubes. There is an ongoing inquest (cause of death hearing) into the killing of Jean Charles de Menezes, an innocent electrician who was &#8216;mistaken for a terrorist suspect&#8217; and shot seven times in the head on a rush-hour subway train.</p>
<p>Do not lecture the Brits on detention without trial &#8211; they may take notice, as they did with such huge success (NOT) in Northern Ireland.</p>
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		<title>By: thegr8_1</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/has-britain-lost-its-marbles-on-fighting-terror/#comment-138246</link>
		<dc:creator>thegr8_1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 02:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=37028#comment-138246</guid>
		<description>We in the U S are 10-20 years behind the U K, less if we elect the wrong President. 4 years of REPO (Reed Pelosi Obama) will destroy the US, cause defeat in Iraq, cause Israel to judge whether to attack Iran sooner etc. McCain street smarts in foreign policy, if the free world is secure, the recession we are in will work it&#039;s way through our economies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We in the U S are 10-20 years behind the U K, less if we elect the wrong President. 4 years of REPO (Reed Pelosi Obama) will destroy the US, cause defeat in Iraq, cause Israel to judge whether to attack Iran sooner etc. McCain street smarts in foreign policy, if the free world is secure, the recession we are in will work it&#8217;s way through our economies.</p>
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		<title>By: LJB</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/has-britain-lost-its-marbles-on-fighting-terror/#comment-138098</link>
		<dc:creator>LJB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 23:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=37028#comment-138098</guid>
		<description>Our wonderful government has just admitted that they want to read all emails and text messages sent by citizens of the UK. 
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4969312.ece



Imagine the scenario

I text my mate Bob

Me, Bob are you coming out for a pint tonight?

Bob, Yes, is Mohamed coming?

Me, No, he’s away buying fertiliser, won’t be back till tomorrow. 

Bob, OK see you tonight.

10 minutes later……woo woo woo flashing red and blue lights. Me and Bob arrested on terrorism charges Mohamed is arrested on the M6 and were all held for 42 days. The newspapers are full of stories about how the police foiled a terrorist plan to detonate a fertiliser bomb and publish photos of us and our homes.

Reality of the above scenario. Mohamed grows vegetables in his garden.

Still think 42 days is the way to go?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our wonderful government has just admitted that they want to read all emails and text messages sent by citizens of the UK.<br />
<a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4969312.ece" rel="nofollow">http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4969312.ece</a></p>
<p>Imagine the scenario</p>
<p>I text my mate Bob</p>
<p>Me, Bob are you coming out for a pint tonight?</p>
<p>Bob, Yes, is Mohamed coming?</p>
<p>Me, No, he’s away buying fertiliser, won’t be back till tomorrow. </p>
<p>Bob, OK see you tonight.</p>
<p>10 minutes later……woo woo woo flashing red and blue lights. Me and Bob arrested on terrorism charges Mohamed is arrested on the M6 and were all held for 42 days. The newspapers are full of stories about how the police foiled a terrorist plan to detonate a fertiliser bomb and publish photos of us and our homes.</p>
<p>Reality of the above scenario. Mohamed grows vegetables in his garden.</p>
<p>Still think 42 days is the way to go?</p>
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