Gunwalker: Smoking Gun Email?
PJM’s Bob Owens has long speculated that the primary reason for Operation Fast and Furious was to perpetuate the lie that 90 percent of illegal firearms in Mexico were from the United States.
Owens’ assertion was buoyed on Wednesday by internal ATF emails obtained by Townhall.com. One email reads:
Can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same FfL and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks Mark R. Chait Assistant Director Field Operations.
This would seem to be a “smoking gun” for Owens’ assertion that this operation was never about crime and always about an “under the table” effort to institute the gun control Obama knew he could never push through Congress.
Additionally, Obama has just issued an executive order which requires gun dealers in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California to report multiple long gun (rifle or shotgun) purchases to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in order to combat illegal firearms trafficking along the Mexican border.
The National Rifle Association’s Institute for Legislative Action fired back at President Obama’s order. Chris Cox, executive director of the NRA-ILA, said they will be filing a lawsuit against the new order the first time ATF tries to enforce it. He noted that criminals generally don’t fill out forms:
$40 billion transnational criminal enterprises don’t fill out paperwork and are not deterred by paperwork violations. This is a blatant effort by the Obama administration and ATF to divert focus of Congress and the general public from their gross incompetence in the Fast and Furious scandal. This scheme will unjustly burden law-abiding retailers in border states. It will not affect drug cartels and it won’t prevent violence along our borders. ATF and the administration lack the statutory authority to do this and the NRA will file suit as soon as ATF sends the first demand letters.
Obama’s order is awash in hypocrisy per the details of the Gunwalker scandal. It was the ATF which ordered gun dealers to make multiple sales of military-style and .50 caliber sniper rifles to known and suspected straw purchasers in the Operation Fast and Furious debacle, in which more than 2,500 weapons were allowed to walk across the border by the ATF. The dealers were already reporting multiple long gun sales and the ATF told them to make the sales anyway.
Now with the allegations that a similar operation to pass weapons to the M-13 crowd (http://dailycaller.com/2011/07/13/did-operation-fast-and-furious-have-a-tampa-twin-operation-castaway/) there is really no alternative to a Special Prosecutor appointment or impeachment of Holder. This appears to be more widespread than previously thought and the coverup more expansive. Felon charges need to be laid but Holder is not going to pursue “my people”.
Holder and the entire top echelon of both DOJ and ATF should be fired, if not indicted, for this. Lives have been taken – seemingly intentionally – all just to further a political cause. But the $64,000 question is ‘What did the President know, and when did he know it?’
I could not agree with you more, but do you get the sense we will ever get to the truth in our lifetimes?
Claims1, there is no such thing as truth or lie, its all in our head, the common man has been fooled for centuries, by this concept of truth & lie, not sure if that makes sense, thats how it is.
DeWalt D51238K Review
ANSWER: President Obama ordered Operation Fast And Furious take place right from the get go, and with Holder compliance – David Ogden did the announcement, obtained from CSPAN-2.
Though I posted to another Gunwalker article in response, my post is still awaiting moderation.
Here once again is link to Ogden announcement:
Obama Orders Launched Fast and Furious
http://patriotsunion.ning.com/video/obama-orders-launched-fast-and?commentId=6376701%3AComment%3A30542&xg_source=msg_com_video
“Additionally, Obama has just issued an executive order which requires gun dealers in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California to report multiple long gun (rifle or shotgun) purchases to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in order to combat illegal firearms trafficking along the Mexican border.”
It seems evident now that whatever Obama can’t get through Congress he is going to implement through Executive Order or through the EPA or some other Federal Agency. Basically, he has turned into a king where through royal decree he can do whatever he wants to do. Um, I don’t know if anybody sees anything wrong with this, but I certainly do. This is taking away major power from Congress and they should understand that it’s about time to stop it.
Congress should demand that all funding be stopped for all these Czars Obama has and Congress should also challenge all of these Executive Orders in the courts. As we have seen in the drilling fiasco in the Gulf of Mexico, even when the courts rule in favor of the plaintiffs, Obama’s regulatory agencies (like the EPA) just doesn’t care and will defy the courts. This alone should demand an investigation by Congress. As for Operation Fast and Furious, it really is shaping up to be Obama’s Watergate.
This is a serious constitutional crisis – one of several since 1/20/09 – and we have either had a lap-dog Congress or an opposition party who does not want to oppose anything and a compliant make-believe media who will cover up and/or outright lie to protect the leftist agenda. The only thing barely standing in the way is a very iffy Supreme Court, with the lower courts all but compromised by leftist jurists intent on legislating from the bench and ignoring the Constitution.
Something is coming to a head and it will not be pretty.
Basically, he has turned into a king where through royal decree he can do whatever he wants to do.
Recall when Obama spoke wistfully (about a year ago) of China’s absolute power to do whatever it wanted, not being hamstrung by “messy” processes, like being constrained by other branches of government or something as puerile as heeding the will of the people.
He wasn’t kidding. Absolutists and their minions tell you who they are, but people don’t listen.
“It has been well said that really up to date liberals do not care what people do, as long as it is compulsory.”
~G. Will
Yes, it’s a Constitutional CRISIS. But we can’t rely on Congress to resolve this, they don’t even have the cajones to Impeach Obama – he is a Citizen BY Statue or Native-Born Citizen, AT BEST, not a Natural-Born Citizen.
These guns released to Mexico on Obama’s ORDERS, were done to arm Mexican criminals including Hezbollah, open our borders to these criminals, and further wrongly sues Arizona for trying to defend borders our Feds refuse to do.
If this clown weasels a 2nd term, we’ll be turned into a 3rd rate nation for sure. We’re on a good track for it right now.
And for backup on my statement “Obama ordered…”
Obama Orders Launched Fast and Furious
http://patriotsunion.ning.com/video/obama-orders-launched-fast-and?commentId=6376701%3AComment%3A30542&xg_source=msg_com_video
For backup on statement “Hezbollah in Mexico”, search Youtube ‘Hezbollah Mexico’ sans quotes.
Obama needs Impeachment immediately, pending charges of Treason. But we have no Congresscritters with the spine to push for this!
So it’s time for a little anarchy, none are fit for their own office, yet less anything beyond, THROW THE BUMS OUT, and we can replace them wisely in a few days.
congress where are the impeachment proceedings?
Not going to happen before the elections. We need a majority in both houses or such hearings would be a waste of time and, more important, political capital. In the current situation we cannot get convictions in the Senate and the media would make sure that we’d lose big time in 2012.
In war, those who blindly charge across open ground against fortified positions may die gloriously, and may be the subject of poems and songs for generations to come, but they don’t win wars.
Calling for impeachment hearings at this point would be blindly charging across open ground against fortified positions.
Patience is a warrior’s best friend.
Exactly. Still a Special Prosecutor seems in order to kick up some dust on the front page of small newspapers in small conservative towns across American and maybe an editorial in the WSJ. Maybe the MSM will then put the story on page 41 for one day or have a three second sound bite on the evening news on a Saturday night on the Midnight edition one time.
The Repubs need to get a little traction out of this. No changing the left, but the independents are a necessity.
Impeachment at this time is totally the wrong move and will never work anyhow. Hell Clinton lied to a grand jury??? and it didn’t mean a thing. Does anyone think this president doesn’t know how to lie along with the rest of his admin.
sure keep kicking it down the road. like debt reduction no one wants to do the real work. I understand the premise but then not upholding the laws make them guilty too.
honesty is not subjective unless you are a progressive.
Touche. Merely voicing an opinion. I can assure you I ain’t no stinking progressive. But I am rather practical about what can be done and what can’t. This isn’t war, this isn’t CSI, this is politics (the rules are very different as there are no rules only vengence and one upmanship, how do we one up them). I’m just saying that the republicans are notorious for blowing their collective toes off, right when they shouldn’t. That concerns me. Some serious thought should go into this idea and we should count all our toes one more time before we put on our shoes to go out the door on this one.
Thanks
lol …yes I know you aren’t a progressive. but I hear lots of pundits say we cann’t do that now …wait until this or that.
the elites say don’t question obama’s dual citizen issue it is a red herring …honesty is the only solution to ALL the issues.
I just hope you all see that you are actually falling for the progressives version of how to do things ..this is straight from their playbook. it is easier to kick it down the road ..always is.
Donald Trump got good ratings ..why because he asked some hard questions and didn’t back down. he didn’t let them alinsky him …but it seems many here are falling for those alinsky rules without being aware.
if you cann’t stand by honesty and truth then you become one of them and the silent majority ..the tea party are getting it. they don’t care for PC any more. you can not debate the left.
regards
Thanks General. I want the strategy that will get this marxist scum out of the WH the Fastest and the Furiouest (Not a word), if that is impeachment, go for it.
“In war, those who blindly charge across open ground against fortified positions may die gloriously, and may be the subject of poems and songs for generations to come, but they don’t win wars.”
Weak argument by analogy anyone? It may just as well, or rather better, be said that doing nothing and allowing criminals to remain in public office does not secure good government.
Who cares if we can’t get convictions? The mere act of an *attempt* at impeachment is something the MSM could ignore only with great difficulty, and some of the truth would have a greater chance of leaking out than your plan to sweep it all under the rug.
I’m not saying you or Fred B. are wrong, but frankly the impeachment card is played every time a new president arrives by the left and the right. It is used just like the racist card. I, along with much of the public is plain tired of the historonics and botched calls that go into this quagmire of impeachment.
Obama is slicker than Slick Willy with this stuff and will play a harp to the MSM and they will trash the ‘Impeachers’ IMHO. So do we want to be fighting this backlash during an election. This could potentially really screw things up “mean republicans agains, picking on poor Barack again”.
I am as honorable as the next guy,tust me, but let’s start with a square one Special Prosecutor approach and move up the ladder. If we can get some ATF higher ups to come out of the closet and nail Holder and others in the admin, I’d call it a big win and a smear on Obama.
One goal and one goal only here in my view. Get him out of office. Plus there simply isn’t time to impeach Obama, let’s get him out with a vote. A nasty impeachment fight is just going to muddy the waters and probably make him look like a victim to some and a hero to others.
I could be wrong, call me on it, fine with me, but I’m not convinced impeachment makes any sense.
Thanks
I agree with you.
Chipping away and pressure on Holder & justice dept. machinations from determined members of Congress like Rep. Darrell Issa and Sen. Charles Grassley is the way to fly.
If they don’t get worn down by dept. of injustice obfuscation, there should be enough to impeach Holder.
But Obama’s dance of placing the blame elsewhere has kept him somewhat immune from the kind of specific charges necessary for an impeachment proceeding against him, something specific like Bill Clinton lying under oath.
Anyone “serving” in Obama’s administration should look at his pattern of throwing people under the bus, even the grandma that raised him that beloved 20 year Rev. got tossed.
There is a vast difference between impeaching the President and impeaching Holder. Impeaching the President always seems political. Impeaching the head of a Department is just Congress doing its job.
It has the side benefit of highlighting the Obama administration. It shows Congress doing its job. It pulls up hard others in the administration. Suddenly, their butts are on the line too, because they might well be next. There really is no downside. They can try to make it seem political, but when there is such accretion of evidence as now exists, they will just damage themselves all the more. “It’s not the crime; It’s the cover-up.”
The mountain of evidence supporting conspiratorial treason to subvert the US Constitution concealed by continuous disambiguation may be used for a cascade effect with any good cause if there are any above grass roots level to call it what it is. Getting past the Holder fire wall and judicial delay must be given necessary priority.
Concerns about the rebuttal of all that have committed or have been accomplice to public perjury are counter productive by design. Surely you can’t expect anything other than more lies going out to support their lies coming in. Their habitual belligerence can’t allow the emerging truth to go unscathed with conspiracy, party and media at stake. Lawyers of any gender are still lawyers. An intentional lie to promote a deluge of fraud for profit is easily understood with a search for Roe versus Wade to better understand the “big cesspool on the hill”.
If the soup is never stirred potential mole floaters remain submerged for future news coverage but only after another damaging event and then as a sacrificial goat.
God Bless the NRA, 4 million strong and growing. There is no other orgnization like the NRA anywhere in the world. They may be the difference between a socialist/marxist U.S.A. and freedom. Obama and the left wants to disarm America in the worst way and that will never change. If you don’t belong. Join.
“The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”
Thomas Jefferson
“In war, those who blindly charge across open ground against fortified positions may die gloriously, and may be the subject of poems and songs for generations to come, but they don’t win wars.”
Not necessarily true. I believe hopeless last stands inspire and rally citizens into brave action. Remember the Alamo? It definitely drove previously uninvolved citizens to new heights of grim determination and the war was won. We in Texas honor them as the winners of our War for Independence, and not just in poems. (Do non-Texans know that the Alamo is such sacred ground that visitors are required to speak in low voices, and children are reminded of this or asked to leave?)
Unfortunately, as you are pointing out, those massacred at the Alamo didn’t live to see it and were men of unbelievable bravery that is seldom seen. We need brave, stalwart Congressional reps who need only figuratively “fall on their swords” and risk the hit of
being one-termers in order to do their sworn duty to the People who elected them. Do such politicians even exist?
It’s gone to far. Obama’s order and the set up of gun owners occurred in order to disarm the American People. This is primary in securing the regime’s position. We are now in a Dictatorship where a President’s personal orders overrule the Constitution. Issa can and will do NOTHING to bring Obama and Holder to justice. It will take blood to “set things aright”.
The President said “we are working on gun control under the radar”. It is no longer ‘under the radar’. Is there some doubt that our glorious leader was unaware of this disgusting obamanation?
Five words.
Conspiracy to violate civil rights.
We’re talking both serious felony charges and a hefty civil suit here.
DON’T HOLD YOUR BREATHE THAT ANYONE WILL BE CHARGED?
Leak, insiders, leak!
Can anyone say “Class Action Lawsuit”? The gun dealers on the border (or elsewhere) should talk with the NRA and some good lawyers and put together a lawsuit against the various departments involved, and name Holder and Obama as defendants. The gun dealers can make a good case that they were “damaged” as a result of the actions of the government (reputations slandered/libeled, etc.).
I believe that by naming Holder and Obama (though he could get out maybe since he is “President”) they will have to show proof that they were not involved. Which could result in evidence showing that they were involved (or that non-government organizations were pulling their strings).
Can’t sue them. The SCOTUS ruled in 1792 that the FedGov is sovereign. Cannot be sued.
One hundred and fifty Mexican and United States Police Officers murdered because of the ATF and Justice Department, thousands of Mexican Citizens killed. Sure hope the attorneys don’t get involved and start a class action, wrongful death law suit, that would really be embarrassing for the Obama Regime, all those subpoena’s for people, records and emails; all that testifying. We are talking about felony stupid that caused murder here, big trouble for those involved. The Obama bunch created a casus belli so that they could war on the 2nd Amendment for the “Brady Bunch” and do away with citizens having guns, he tipped his hand when he told Sarah Brady, “I’m doing something right now thats under the radar” that will take care of the guns in the United States, now we know what he was speaking about. We have a racist Thugocracy in the White House now which thinks they are above the Constitution and rule of law, the Democrats are way past getting dangerous to our country.
The federal government using federal agencies to break federal laws so that same federal government can impose more federal laws on the people that did not break the law. If this isn’t a direct violation of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights nothing ever will. These people take an oath to “support and defend” the Constitution and they violated that oath. People have been killed because of what these people have done, there are no excuses or a slap on the wrist in this matter. Prison for the perpetrators is the only answer. Our congress is willing to put Roger Clemens in prison for 30 years for lying to them, can they explain to us that when Eric Holders lies to them it is called “misleading congress” no perjury charges filed. This whole government is out of control and eaten up with corruption.
I think this is clearly treason.
Totally agree, but first you got to prove it.
Thanks
The dealers were already reporting multiple long gun sales and the ATF told them to make the sales anyway.
So Obama’s big, fat executive order attempts to force reporting that was already being done by gun shops.
Every one of this administration’s moves (from trying to stop Arizona enforcing its borders to Obamacare) has to be seen in one light and one light only, the extension of federal control and the diminishment of states’ and individual rights.
Barack Obama’s assault on the document he swore to uphold continues apace. He has particular contempt for the 1st, 2nd and 10th amendments.
Everyone involved needs to be indicted and tried. Hopefully, someone will squeal and the trail lead up to Holder and Obama. Then Holder should be tried and Obama impeached and tried.
This scandal is making Watergate look good by comparison, G. Gordon Liddy’s actions never killed anybody. This can only be construed as a fabricated crisis to impose stricter gun regulation.
Hopefully this will shake out and claim the scalp of Holder, maybe even Obama, and the media blackout will further show that they are a useless entity.
I’m all for impeachment but first make your case. Representative Izza and Senator Grassley are doing that right now. Get all the facts and all the testimonies and all the witnesses willing to come forward before you start any proceedings. Get all your ducks in a row, don’t start this half- a$$ed and find out they have a trump card hidden away somewhere. Check every lead, back it up so that it can’t be disputed, make your case airtight. Once started, the MSM will have to report on it. Make it so tight they can’t slant it. We all know they will try but make it so that no matter how they try it still comes out as highly criminal behavior.
These are politicians we are talking about, they lie for a living, and they are good at it, but they also know how to send their accomplices down the river to save their own butts. Confront them with undeniable facts and they will roll over. Start up the food chain, get the small fry and watch them roll,then take a bigger bite. Don’t leave the big fish anyone to blame but themselves. The whole thing will crumble.
“An internal ATF email seems to support the assertion that Fast and Furious was a PR stunt for gun control.”
The Democrat controlled govenment is helping drug dealers and murderers as a part of a plot to strip American citizens of the RIGHT to keep and bear arms.
Color me surprised.
Lets just take ‘em in LIFO order. The staged-crisis-to-quick-law will to power. Next up after Gunstuffer, the Macondo well in the Gulf of Mexico smirkingly beckons, as soon as our time and attention permit (begin at the end, with the investigation report certification by an only slightly disguised functional equivalent of a captured regulatory agency; that is, Det Norske Veritas –presence inexplicable outside a coverup logic).
Once we get past the Carter Administrashion, we can stop and catch our breath as the perps past there are mostly expired and off to Hell to continue their fiendish plotting. Heck, even Carol (‘Love Canal’) Browner has retired (AKA transferred to beyond easy summons), after the 2010 election results must’ve given gave her a case of the ‘Issa Sweats’.
Good to remember that the Reichstag fire did not make the dictator, it only convened the legislating body –which passed a law to do the deed.
Watching this scandal unfold is like watching someone paint-by-numbers. We already know what the picture looks like, we are just watching the lines get filled in. What is incredible to me is the deafening silence from the media other than PJM. Kudos to PJM for hammering away at this. This is much worse than Iran-Contra which got televised daily.
As for the pro/con on impeachment, watching Obama and/or Holder get impeached would make me deleriously happy.
However, come election time this scandal is going to be such an albatross around Obamas neck that he will certainly lose.
Hold on guys…. I have to get up and dance around a little bit.
Oh yeah, I forgot to add the cherry on top. Ordinary Mexicans are beginning to call for a liberalization of gun laws in their country so that they can defend themselves. I dont think that is a result of the gunwalker scandal, but it sure would be a good step forward for the mexicans and a stick in the eye for the gun control crowd here.
Bravo AmIgo. Like an Mexican NRA only in this situation they blow the crap out of each other. I am all for the Mexican citizens protecting themselves from The Cartels and from their own corruPt government. It may be here soon enough. Thanks
So the ATF demands the gun dealers sell multiple guns to known gun trafficers. Gun dealers follow the law and comply with gov demands. Guns all turn up with mexican criminals. Now the Obama makes new rules to stop guns fron going to mexico, which the administration itself organized and demanded. I keep wondering whether the constant run of bizarre, incompetent, and illegal things this administration will do will ever stop. I suspect not, unless he loses in 2012. Even then, he will probably pull a Clinton and do a bunch of things in h8s lame duck period to screw the incoming administration.
http://rob-payne.blogspot.com/2008/11/eric-holder-chiquita-banana-republic.html
Fast & Furious is Old & Familiarish
Tell that to the dead Americans and Mexican. Do you people still think obama is so smart? Do not tell me that obama and holder had no idea what the ATF was doing!
Obama is smart. All of this time, I have it up to my neck of people that believe his actions have been stupid or done through ignorance. It is all planned.
Fast and furious was a devious plot that both Obama and Hillary knew about. They both talked about this in the beginning of the administration. This is a coordinated effort by all of the communists……..erm democrats. I have had it with people being blind or afraid to call them ignorant or foolish. They are criminal. Why is it NO ONE has investigated who withdrew that $1 Trillion that began the financial debacle. It was ALL planned from the get go.
Sorry, what I meant to say instead of-
“I have had it with people being blind or afraid to call them ignorant or foolish.”
I have had it with people being blind or afraid to call them criminals. Oh well, long night of blogging.
I have a novel idea. Can anyone get a Mexican official to ask for assistance down in Mexico? I have seen one video where on official is calling for extradition to Mexico of those involved.
Could you imagine if a Mexican official asked for say Holder to come down to Mexico to help out in the investigation? Mexico arrests Holder for crimes against Mexico?
A person can dream.
That would be to much to ask for from these corrupt governments. It would be sweet if Mexico would arrest holder! They know where the money went, but we just keep giving these junkies more money!
Mr. Kramer, you couldnt have scripted the death of the modern Democratic party any better!
Can you just imagine the hell that would be raised if G.W. had tried soemthing like this???
A helpful thought for Eric Himpton Holder, Jr.
Time for you to ‘man up’ guy – stop playing word games – lying – cheating and shoveling bat shit on attempts to find out the truth behind the ‘gun scandals’ that seem to be forever growing around the DOJ. You are the Attorney General of the United States – chief law enforcement officer of the country and if anyone can legitimately clean up this embarrassment – it should be you!
Investigate – apprehend – make the participants stand trial – then punish to the maximum. Oh – if you are in any way connected to this borderline treasonous bull shit – resign and throw yourself on the mercy of our system. You should really get behind the attempts to clean up this fiasco – before you are tossed under the wheels of the Socialist bus – and you will be Eric – you will be!
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