Gunning For a Concealed Carry Permit
“Be nice. Be polite. Have a plan to kill everyone you see.”
That admonition by the instructor came across as a non sequitur following four hours of classroom discussion covering the intricacies of North Carolina laws concerning the justification for the use of deadly force, the quirks of statutory law and the fact that even if a perfectly justifiable situation that you still had a ten-percent chance of going to jail in a jury trial, plus more than an hour of examining videos of legal theory and “shoot/don’t shoot” scenarios.
Welcome to concealed carry class.
Early on the morning of Super Bowl Sunday, when most people were thinking football, seven of us showed up at a cramped classroom in a gun shop in eastern North Carolina.
Two were university administrators. Another was a dump trucker driver. Two were retirees, and one was a builder. And me. All were men. Only two of us were under fifty. The one woman who was scheduled to take the class dropped at the last minute because of a sick child, and another student missed the class because of recent surgery. It is the only time I can recall ever going to class knowing that everyone in the room was armed.
One of the first things our instructor did when we got to class was ask us why we were attending the class.
Almost everyone in the room stated that their primary reason was so that they could legally carry a concealed weapon in their vehicle on occasion while traveling.
This actually seemed to surprise the instructor a little bit; he’s had entire classes that were only taking the class so that they could purchase handguns without having to go through the hassle of going to the Sheriff’s Department and fill out permit paperwork every time they decided to buy a handgun (those who obtain Concealed Carry of Handgun (CCH) permits go through a much more stringent background check than typical handgun purchasers, and a CCH permit is good for immediate purchases for five years). It seems, however, that most folks who have permits, don’t actually use them on a daily basis.
There are four rigid criteria that must be satisfied to justify shooting another person in self defense in North Carolina, but I imagine the law here isn’t too much different in the 30 or so other states where concealed carry is allowed.
In plain English, we can’t start a confrontation, must try to diffuse or escape the situation if we can, and can only pull a weapon when some tries to kill or sexually assault someone else or ourselves, and once we fire, we can only shoot to stop the threat, not to kill. That last detail was printed on the bottom of every page of the course syllabus, in bold text: Do not shoot to kill. Shoot to stop the lethal threat.
In practicality, there are three rules to follow in deciding whether or not deadly force is justified. explained as A.O.J.
Ability: the attacker or attackers must have the ability to kill or cripple.
Opportunity: the attacker must immediately be capable of employing that power.
Jeopardy: the attacker is acting in such a manner that a prudent person would conclude that the act was mean to kill or cripple.
You’ve got to decide if a threat meets all three criteria, and oh, and by the way… in “real world” scenarios, the CCH holder usually has just seconds to make that determination. Legal self defense is not for the stupid. At this point of the class, I was beginning to think that think it would be far more practical to apply for a “concealed lawyer” permit, if I could only find one small enough to shove in a holster.
We also covered everywhere you can’t carry a handgun even with a permit, which includes fairs, banks, schools, courthouses, any establishment where alcohol is both sold and consumed, parades, picket lines, private health care facilities, most federal and state property, and any place that posts a sign saying concealed carry is prohibited… even gun shows, ironically, enough. I think I can still legally carry a concealed pistol from my living room to my bathroom, but I’ll have to pull my lawyer out of the holster to check.
At some point during one of the many breaks (gun show classrooms aren’t exactly known for plush seating), the tow trucker driver decided he’d heard enough, and disappeared. I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that he was told that he’d probably have to ask for permission to carry his pistol at every single construction site he visited. Somehow, I don’t think he’ll be dissuaded from carrying a concealed weapon, but he won’t be doing it legally.
After hours of the legal review, and after the excruciating “shoot/don’t shoot” scenarios presented on video, I’d decided several things. One was that cops make lousy actors. Not just lousy acting, but Gigli spiked with Ishtar and a twist of Showgirls lousy. The second was that even lawyers can bore themselves, as the NC Justice Academy legal specialist who went over the scenarios in the video looked as if he was about to fall asleep in mid-sentence at times.
Finally, coursework done, horribly-acted scenarios reviewed, it was close to time to go to the range. It was only at this point that I got scared of something other than being lawyered to death. Our instructor, after now jolting us out of our multi-hour legal and acting paralysis with the “Be Nice. Be Polite. Have a plan to kill everyone you see,” statement that began this article, started going over the actual mechanics of the various basic handgun types, and then asked us what we were shooting.
At this point — and I can’t recall whether it was prompted by a question or not — one of the retirees announced that he would be shooting a revolver that he has shot perhaps 25 rounds through in 35 years. The other retiree had not fired a weapon since he was in the Navy. I wanted to ask whether that was the Navy of the USA or the CSA, but I realized that wasn’t nice. Or polite.
I was starting to get this, and sincerely hoped that neither one of them was going to kill me, whether that was part of their plan, or not.
We then loaded up and drove to the range for qualifying with our firearms. I’ll let you take a wild guess which two gentlemen were lined up to my right. I prayed at the firing line. I prayed a lot.
We were told not to try for tight groups, to spread our shots around the target’s center mass. “Air goes in and out. Blood goes rounds and round. Any variation of that is bad.” Bullets close together cause less disruption than those spread apart affecting different areas. I get that.
I won’t bore you with the details of the range qualifications, other than to tell you we fired groups of five shots at 3, 5, and 7 yards, and that I hit my targets quickly and with a decent spread every time. The two gentlemen I was concerned about to my immediate right did just fine. They shot quite a bit slower than everyone else, but they were safety conscious and on target. If they’re ever attacked by a tortoise, they may stand a chance.
I have my certification now. My two-hour drive home gave me plenty of time to think about the responsibility I was now on the verge of undertaking. I have no desire to hurt another human being, even a violent criminal. But I have far less desire to become a victim.
Bob Owens blogs at Confederate Yankee.
Well, yes and no. I carry, since some years ago my life was threatened and learned that the police couldn’t protect me. Nor did the law do anything about the threat, which was made multiple times to third parties but not directly to me…therefore, forget it, chum.
I rarely carry on my person, but when traveling alone I do, even into those “wrong” places, if I judge the likelihood of being caught there sufficiently low.
The issue is that I refuse to live in fear. I threaten nobody. If confronted I’ll grovel, run, retreat, beg, cry, and if that doesn’t defuse the threat then this 72 year old man…who can’t run and is too old to fight…will pull the weapon from it’s cage and shoot the sonofabitch. A .45 calibre, 230 grain bullet to somewhere will stop the perp, and may kill him. Tough. I doubt a jury in NC will give a damn, either.
I may have gotten a concealed carry license to put a handgun in my vehicle on occasion while traveling or to wear under an outer covering once in a while. However, now I carry almost everywhere, almost all the time. The reason is quite simple. I dread that I may be without it when I most need it.
There is no way to predict when going out what may happen while out. Should something happen, it is unrealistic to think I would be able to drive home to get what I need to solve a situation. In fact if I had time to do that, I should stay home and phone the police. No, when a handgun is needed it is needed here and now. The thought that I might need something here and now that is at home in a safe causes me to take roscoe with me almost everywhere.
By the way, retreat from a lethal attack is no longer legally necessary where I live. “Home” is my castle now means “home” is pretty much wherever where I am.
I found that I was uncomfortable with the huge leap from defenseless to armed with firearm, mostly because I think there are serious problems with our legal system (mainly the subjectivity, whims, and personal character of prosecutors). Pulling a gun in self defense is still a legal crap shoot that can make life unpleasant no matter how right you may be. Our system still seems to favor bad guys over good guys.
I believe that the next responsible step is to develop the ability to effectively disable one, two, or more people without using a firearm. Granted, not everyone has the physical ability to fight to this degree, but most people do have far more potential than they might imagine. And knowing how easy it is to take someone out without a gun goes a long way in removing fear from the equation. Keeping one’s composure and thinking straight is a huge factor.
I’m a strong supporter of conceal carry, but I also believe it is far preferable to resolve a situation without tripping the ‘firearm involved’ legal tripwire. One should not feel defenseless without a gun.
The biggest concern I have about actually having to use a weapon in self-defense is not the criminal trial, I trust my judgement enough. It is the civil trial where the burden of proof is much lower. And if the perpetrator is only wounded (maybe disabled), it is very easy for juries to have the wrong sympathy. I can easily see a situation where I am nominally free, but permanently ruined by judgements and legal fees. This is another area where there needs to be some reform.
1. Carry a cheap gun you won’t mind getting confiscated by LEO at the first traffic stop.
2. Be sure to have grips made from chocolate in the event you do not shoot and have to eat the thing.
3. shooting to wound someone who is armed and going to shoot you is about stupid.
Really good article! Funny and informative.
“…knowing how easy it is to take someone out without a gun goes a long way in removing fear from the equation.” You are fearless?
OK, RE, no fooling now; considering “one, two, or more”; are you really Mike Tyson? Even if you are, I think the odds-makers would favor roscoe every time. But you, not they, would absolutely have to be right every time.
TO: Bob Owens
RE: Rules of Engagement – North Carolina (Item 1)
“In plain English, (1) we can’t start a confrontation, (2) must try to diffuse or escape the situation if we can, and (3) can only pull a weapon when some tries to kill or sexually assault someone else or ourselves, and (4) once we fire, we can only shoot to stop the threat, not to kill.” — Bob Owens
What constitutes “start a confrontation”?
Case in Point….
A year ago, last month, I was attending a Board of Directors (BoD) meeting of a group I belong to.
During the course of the meeting, the president of this BoD became so vexed he started dropping the f-bomb.
I said, in a loud and clear voice from the audience of attendees, “I don’t think that kind of language is appropriate.”
At this point the president got up from his chair and tried to rush around the tables to get at me.
Did I “start the confrontation”?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. I think you’re mistaken about the Rules of Engagement being pretty much the same from state to state.
Move to Texas. Self defense laws here are very rational.
Darkness beyond twilight.
Crimson beyond blood that flows,
buried in the flow of time.
In Thy Great Name, I pledge myself to darkness.
Let all those fools who stand before me be destroyed by the Power You and I possess.
Dragon Slave.
Hi Bob –
I also took the NC CCH class in Western NC. It was all women. I was oldest (62). We all ride. We also live quite close to where the older couple were recently killed in the Pisgah National Forest. (And another woman, and we’re not so far from GA ….)
Of course, since it seems I can only carry in my car, and between the LR and the bathroom
I am not sure how much help it will be.
I took the class so I would basically be comfortable with handling a weapon, and so I could carry one when I am out. A federal law enforcement person told me several years ago if I was riding alone to carry a weapon. Of course that’s illegal unless it’s an openly carried .22 or I am in a camp site … (The laws don’t seem especially clear to me.) But then, the Bryants are dead, so there you go.
About half of our class of 6 had no experience or little recent experience, but we all got the hang ot if pretty quickly. I have gone back several times since to work on my skills.
It is a huge responsibility, and for someone growing up without any guns in our home, a significant lifestyle change.
All CCH instructors must have shocking bits of advice they use to wake up their students. Mine told us to make sure we kill the assailant so he can’t testify against us in court. Makes sense, in a grim sort of way. But I also read somewhere that when the cops respond to a shooting, they very seldom arrest the guy laying on the ground in a pool of blood. They usually arrest the guy standing there with a smoking gun in his hand.
I don’t think the system favors bad guys – I think it just doesn’t distinguish bad guys from good guys in the same way “common sense” does. The law’s business is keeping the peace and protecting citizens and their property from harm. When you discharge a firearm, even in self defense, from the law’s point of view you are putting citizens and their property at risk and disturbing the peace. You have to answer for that.
And remember the smoking gun scenario. The law considers everyone to be innocent until proven guilty. From the law’s point of view, the guy laying in the pool of blood is just a citizen, and you are just another citizen who apparently shot him. When one citizen shoots another, it’s always the shooter who has to prove he had sufficient reason to act as he did. And since we can’t have citizens running around shooting each other and getting away with it, the standards of proof are set extremely – maybe ridiculously – high.
All this makes sense in principle. From the point of view of someone who’s life is in immediate danger, though, it seems kind of insane.
It’s worth remembering such a trick as keeping a small but flashy clipped roll of single dollar bills surrounded by a twenty or even ten dollar bill in an easily accessed pocket. If confronted in a public place by a money seeking thug, take out the clipped roll slowly and carefully enough that the thug sees the higher denomination bill showing, then toss it in one direction and run like hell in the opposite direction. Make certain not to be too abrupt about reaching for the roll, either. Adrenaline-hopped reflexes can all too easily inadvertently twitch a trigger finger in involuntary response to a sudden movement, if this is a thug armed with a gun.
Obviously, one also tries not to be in areas or situations (certain neighborhoods in particular) where thugs are rampant, whether or not the common money seeking variety. I once, when much younger and much more naive was walking alone at night in such a neighborhood, and was nearly killed by a wilding gang that fortunately seemed more intent on tossing the biggest possible stones (ten pounds or so each) than on actual accuracy.
I’d very much rather not have to actually shoot, reserving that for the gravest extreme and when unable to retreat to and in safety. (Obviously, if a home invader suddenly and violently burst into my home, this would in itself constitute such an unavoidable and immediate threat to my life and bodily integrity). This is essentially the law as well in New York State, as I understand it. If I must shoot, then I’ll certainly shoot to abruptly disable the attacker and cause the attack to cease and desist. That means centre of mass generally, and if possible a load bearing joint (a hip especially). A head shot might make sense, since that will stop an attack very quickly with a decent round, but is tricky since heads do dance and weave so much. I might feel compelled in an emergency to attempt it if the attacker was obviously drugged up and liable to keep going and going like the Eveready Energizer Bunny even if shot multiple times in centre mass.
Speaking of rounds, if your state allows it, most certainly use a decent hollowpoint round, and practice with it along with the normal cheaper practice rounds in roundpoint (ball ammunition). (New Jersey in particular is notorious for sending people to prison for merely possessing so much as a single round of hollowpoint ammunition, whether or not actually loaded into a gun). I’d suggest at least a .38 Special caliber round such as Golden Sabre, and it’s hard to go wrong with most of the .45 caliber hollowpoints with which to begin. I’m not a gun expert at all, so do your own research on which handguns to go with the calibres. I like Taurus and Glock models myself.
Certainly, also practice drawing and aiming the gun (with it unloaded, and for Pete’s sake double check each and every time that it’s actually unloaded when you practice this way). You might be surprised how easy it is, when you’re frightened and stressed, to catch the damned thing on every possible little snag, whether from a concealed holster under clothes or from a purse for the ladies. There are hammerless handgun models if needed that lack the obvious part that sticks out from the hammer.
I guess I should close with the cautious statement that I am not an attourney, the contents of this post do not constitute legal advice, and that it is your responsibility to be aware of the specific laws and regulations of your own state and locality.
TO: Bob Owens
RE: Rules of Engagement – North Carolina (Item 4)
“In plain English, (1) we can’t start a confrontation, (2) must try to diffuse or escape the situation if we can, and (3) can only pull a weapon when some tries to kill or sexually assault someone else or ourselves, and (4) once we fire, we can only shoot to stop the threat, not to kill.” — Bob Owens
Funny think, that….item 4; you cannot shoot to kill.
The police do it ALL the time.
Case in Point….
….some years ago some idiot commandeered an M60 Main Battle Tank from some Army fort in California.
He went cruising down the roadways of some big city there, squashing parked cars. Not killing, or attacking, anyone on his joy ride.
The police were following him closely; for some reason, not getting up a road-block.
At some point the tank driver, high-axled his vehicle on some structure leading to a bridge.
A cop climbed aboard the tank and got into the crew compartment through an unsecured hatch on the turret. [Note: I suspect this cop had some experience with tanks.]
He accosted this miscreant, who was sitting in the drivers seat from behind and told him to stop trying to free the tank from the immobility predicament.
When the miscreant continued to drive the tank off the obstacle, the cop shot him….IN THE HEAD.
This despite the fact that the tank was immobile, i.e., it wasn’t going to go ANYWHERE.
The cop was not charged with murder. Nor, to the best of my knowledge with failure to shoot ‘not to kill’.
Is there a double-standard here? In MY state, Colorado, I’m informed that cops and private citizens are held to the same standard regarding the lawful use of deadly force. [Note: However, I've not observed that is the case in a number of instances I've noticed since the 1980s, when our rich Uncle Sam moved me here to Fort Carson.]
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Dead men cannot sue you in civil court.]
Don’t conflate personal carry with having a gun in the car, folks. Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia, and Wyoming retain enough freedom to allow vehicular carry in a fashion rational enough for you to quickly access and use the gun to actually protect yourself. States like Vermont and Nevada and a surprising number of others allow loaded, open, vehicular carry, a very beautiful thing indeed.
Many other states allow vehicular carry under license, including, amazingly, New York.
Those who do not allow vehicular carry with reasonably rapid access simply aren’t worth living in. Leave them.
Fred Beloit,
I’m not talking about sport fighting. It’s pretty useless on the street.
Check out some of the Krav Maga vids on YouTube. Defending against multiple attackers under stressful conditions is a regular drill we go though. It all happens very fast and like every thing else, it’s a matter of dedication and training. ‘Having seen something like this before’ goes a long way towards knowing what your next move will be.
Yes, the adrenaline will still be flowing – but you won’t be paralyzed by fear – or shock.
But like anything else it’s a matter of using the right tool for the job. The more tools you have in your toolbox, the better.
I did a bit more research, and it seems that New Jersey is the only state that currently bans in a weird way the possession in most public places of hollowpoint ammunition. I lack the patience to summarise just how goofed up is New Jersey on the subject. Google it if you wish to know more about it.
I liked what “Bugs” had to say about the law and presumption of innocence on the part of the person who has been shot and is “the guy laying in the pool of blood”. This protects all of us, even if it can be rough on the actual victim who had to shoot in self defense. “Bugs” said it very well.
As for what “Chuck Pelto” and “J P” said about shooting to kill, well, it often happens that a well placed series of shots with decent ammunition to the centre mass or of course to the head if needed will kill, even though that is not the point of clearly and immediately stopping an attack on your life and safety or on the life and safety of a loved one or even of a stranger. Obviously, this does as a side effect prevent the stinking turd from trying to screw you over again, this time in a courtroom, for not being a good little victim. If the family of the dead thug tried to sue, it seems it’d be damn well justice to countersue that greedy bloodsucking family for having knowingly or negligently raised, harbored, aided and/or abetted a violent thug. That’s all I have to say on that, as Forrest Gump would have it.
@Chuck Pelto:
That dude was joy riding a *TANK*. IMHO they would have been justified flying an Apache to take the guy out with a missile. If you want murder-by-cop there are plenty of examples in no-knock raids gone wrong.
Pelto: I say “fuck” a lot. At meetings and lots of places. I don’t say it in court, and I don’t say it in front of kids. But I believe in equal rights so lots of women get to hear me say fuck.
As to whether someone thinks its inappropriate, I really don’t give a fuck. I sure don’t care enough about what anybody else thinks to start an altercation about it.
Just don’t shoot me for saying fuck a lot and I won’t shoot you for thinking I am uncouth. Great social contract, eh?
By the way, Bob, just ’cause somebody is an old fuck doesn’t mean they can’t put a bullet in a bad guy if they need to.
> Granted, not everyone has the physical ability to fight to this degree, but most people do have far more potential than they might imagine.
I’m always amused by folks who assume that thugs don’t learn their trade.
Thugs are typically in their prime years. They have plenty of time AND motivation to get good at physical attacks.
Most of the rest of us aren’t and don’t.
Don’t get me wrong – I’ve nothing against fu. However, if you’re assuming that you’ll have an edge in training and/or physical condition, you’re probably wrong.
“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.”
By anybody, without qualification. It is the single strongest clause in the Constitution.
Just yesterday, we had a serious security breach where I work. The signs are posted all around the property, “no weapons allowed unless you’re a cop.” The guards had a picture and description of the guy, with orders to block his entry. Furthermore, there are signs in the building where I work, stating that no non-employee may enter without an escort. He still got in and made a very ugly scene with his ex.
Did he have a gun? Maybe. He already demonstrated that he didn’t give a rat’s ass about the posted rules.
Did the rules protect us? Did the cops? Did the security people? Did the management protect us?
The lunacy of this unconstitutional no-guns “policy” is staring them in the face, but I’d bet the mint they won’t change a damn thing.
People who take CCW training almost universally come out of their courses appreciating the consequences of this new responsibility, and the more you carry the more it becomes part of you.
Ironically, you are now among that class of Americans that the Brady Campaign (formerly Handgun Control, Inc.) insists are going to snap and run amuck in schools, churches, banks, fairs, hospitals, and between your living room and bathroom. Welcome to our community of the last acceptable targets of social bigotry in America.
Bad advice, indeed. Most dead men have families, and the suit will be filed just as surely.
Henry: You have a point. Even if you put one antisocial mug in the ground, a dozen or so others will soon be hovering around you like vultures. That’s really the major lesson I took away from CCW training:
SHOOTING SOMEONE WILL F**K UP YOUR LIFE BEYOND ALL RECOGNITION!
I am pro-gun, pro-concealed-carry, I belong to the NRA, and I’m as game as they come. I’d rather shoot someone and have a f**ked-up life than have no life at all. But I still don’t carry a firearm. I have assessed my environment, my travels, my encounters with less-than-friendly people, and concluded that the threat level is too low to justify CCH. At the moment, anyway. Situations change. I’d always like to have the option should I decide it’s necessary.
“shooting to wound someone who is armed and going to shoot you is about stupid”
Barry, note that the admonision is not to “shoot to wound”, but rather not to shoot to kill. The intent of shooting is to neutralize the threat. If that requires killing, so be it, but your intent should be to end the bad guy’s ability to do bad things in the current situation, not to end his/her life.
Maybe one of the issues with CCH is that most of us probably don’t have enough training or experience to judge whether a threat is really neutralized. We may never have drawn our weapons “for real” before finding ourselves in that situation. If I shoot at someone and they a) run away or b) fall to the ground and stop moving, I can probably assume that they’re neutralized. Anything in between – difficult call.
BTW – does anyone know the definition of “brandishing” as it pertains to firearms?
“One story. End of story.”
Getting raped, beaten, and then murdered will mess up your life, too.
The main thing is to get training and be disciplined about carrying while maintaining awareness of your surroundings.
As a side note, it is not legal to have guns in a commercial motor vehicle. That includes the dump truck driver. This is a federal law and permits are meaningless.
Welcome to the concealed carry community. I live in MD and have a Florida CCW. In MD you can not legally have a handgun in your car or motor home loaded or not and MD does not recognize Florida’s or any other states’ carry permit. The states around MD do recognize my permit, but I can’t legally get there. For ordinary folks to get a permit in MD one has to carry large sums of money and concealed carry only at those times or have a documented death threat; that is unless you have powerful connections or have a position of power.
It is about time that, as much as I believe in state’s rights, the right to carry becomes a federal mandate. A few years ago congress did pass a law allowing former police officers to carry since states like MD had placed so many obstacles in a retired officer’s way when trying to obtain a permit.
While I have always been inclined to walk away from a confrontation, I did find that when I have carried in the past, I was much more respectful of the power I potentially had and would be even more inclined to avoid confrontations.
But one thing to remember, and hard to do, is that one has to practice recovering the weapon from concealment and firing it. If you don’t do this you may find yourself shot before you can remember how to extract the weapon and where the heck the safety is!
Bob, you didn’t tell us what firearm you purchased. That tiny one in the photo…? I carry a CZ P-01; I don’t leave home without it.
Coincidentally enough, I submitted my application today for a CCW permit. Luckily I live in Colorado which is a ‘shall issue’ state. Even without a CCW permit, it is lawful in CO for me to carry a gun as long as it is in plain sight. I have never tested this by wearing a .45 on my hip to the grocery store because I am sure someone who doesn’t know the law would call the police.
I used to live in Maryland where gun laws are so restrictive that you practically need a signed note from God Almighty to even have one in your house- forget about carrying it, openly or concealed.
Now that I live in a state that trusts me with a gun, and trusts me to defend myself with it, I feel better- free.
In Ramadi, Fetid Quarters and Unrelenting Battles by Dexter Fikins in the NYTimes on July 5, 2006:
One of the “habits of mind” drilled into the marines from posters hung up inside:
“Be polite, be professional and have a plan to kill everyone you meet.”
Good for you and welcome to the club!
I guess that growing up around guns with a police officer father makes it pretty easy for me. It was just another tool in the home, as dangerous as any knife or power tool if abused(yet pales in comparison with such ‘extremely’ deadly weapons as a car with a drunk behind the wheel). When I was 12 there would be a service revolver on top of the ‘fridge, and I would promptly get on a chair and hide it in a cabinet if I was having friends over. Even to this day if I have something such as a toy light gun for a video game, when not shooting my finger is out of the guard and I instinctively lower it if someone crosses the barrel’s path-even if it is just purple plastic. Not to mention being hyper-aware of a bullet’s possible trajectory pending a miss or it passing through the target.
And when my male friends all turned 21, I didn’t have the same ‘gun crazy’ urge most young adult males get as a right of passage. Even though I went to the range plenty, my firearms never became a subject at a party or other gathering for show-and-tell. I have seen quite a bit of poor firearm handling in my time and nothing gets deeper under my skin. Most of the ones who seemed the most obsessed with their new legal right never made any effort to get any sort of formal training.
Likewise I have ridden motorcycles for years. And again, as most of my male counterparts wanted to go insanely fast and do as many wheelies as possible; I personally prided myself on a ‘perfect ride’. An hour in traffic with the cages that I never stalled, or missed a gear, or not noticed someone changing lanes, nor having to brake hard. Seeing every possible bad situation well in advance, being weary of every potential problem or distracted driver, proved far more satisfying then doing wheelies. Not to mention over 400k miles without being in or on any motor vehicle in an accident. As riding a motorcycle ‘properly’ can heighten skills dramatically with simpler motor vehicles, proper handling of firearms can develop heightened skills in dealing with possible personal confrontation situations, armed or not.
Having nobody ever know you even have a CCWP, let alone getting in a situation you ever need to use it, is definitely the goal someone seeking a permit should have. If you think it’s going to help you avoid trouble or boost your overall confidence in confrontational situations, it’s definitely the wrong choice. Although I would never hesitate to neutralize a person that imposes themselves in a deadly way on another person should the situation arise. I don’t even know if I would loose sleep over it, as I see people that willingly harm others for personal gain as simply ‘defective’ in the first place-as making the decision to rape and kill an elderly woman or kill you for a few dollars in your wallet-this is not something that is done by accident. The irony however, which dictates most gun laws, makes carrying where one is most likely to ever NEED it(including the entirety of the most dangerous cities in the nation)also somewhat undermines the need for a legal permit in the first place.
As with anything, you’re playing the odds. I mostly only carry to facilitate keeping a firearm with me while traveling, as my place of work and most places I go are not gun-legal to start with. That, or late night walks around DC with my girlfriend-where I end up playing a different kind of odds-gambling on the fact that I have never been frisked before once in my life.
In the 1960s there were entire districts of big cities where muggers had made senior citizens prisoners in their own apartments. Let’s hope that these over-50 permit-holders do not permit that to happen here.
As a Jewess in the US, I would like to remind all that America wasn’t won with a registerd gun. And furthermore, that criminals are stopped not by talk, but by FIREARMS. That is why all REAL Americans put our 2nd Amendment FIRST!!!
Bugs, “brandishing” means whatever the DA wants it to mean.
The worst DA’s will go after a brandishing charge if the gun prints or if your body language implies you have a hand gun in a particular place (hand to chest so you can pull a gun faster, etc).
I’ve covered the shootings in Kirkwood, Mo., during the past four days and, after watching a local St. Louis television station’s interview of City Attorney John Hessel, I couldn’t help but think how he and other victims of Thursday night’s shooting tragedy might have fared better with the help of concealed firearms.
Among the 30 or so gathered in the Kirkwood City Hall meeting room that night, only one trained and qualified person – Officer Tom Ballman – carried a firearm. Had only one other trained person carried a firearm into the meeting that night, the number of dead and wounded might have been greatly reduced. Surprisingly, Kirkwood city laws don’t entirely prevent it!
Read more about it here.
RE Shoot to stop the threat
As someone once said “You shoot to stop the threat. Unfortunately, a LARGE percentage of the time this tends to leave the person being shot dead”
This is also the reason a lot of people prefer thing like the .45 to the 9mm. Both, in the long run, tend to leave the person shot dead. The problem is (if you read police reports) that with the 9mm, you tend to get “Bang” and then the person shot continuing what they are doing for some period of time, often long enough to run up/down a flight of stairs, or close the distance to you (aka continue their attack on you), where with bigger bullets (.45 or .40s&W) the person shot is much more likely to be “Dead Right There” (aka DRT)
I’m in Tennessee and our laws/situations are probably different.
My carry class experience was similar. Afterwards, however, I came away marveling – and maybe worrying – about how little training and effort are required to be legally armed. (I know, as opposed to those that are illegally armed and up to no good.) There were people on the range that I’d not want to be near if they started shooting.
And the part about getting involved in any kind of legal entanglement is sobering certainly.
The main reason I wanted the carry permit was so I could be legal when driving and when at home, and it came on the heels of there being three armed assaults – one ending in death – in my part of town which historically is pretty quiet as far as violent crime goes.
I don’t know if the ‘have a plan to kill everyone you meet’ strategy is a very good one. I’d replace it with the ‘have a plan as to how to react to a variety of threatening situations’ strategy. For instance, ‘what would I do if I was in a store and an armed robbery started?’ or ‘what would I do if I was at the mall and I heard shots fired?’ or ‘what would I do if I were at the ATM and someone approached me and I believed I was about to be mugged?’ Those are useful strategies to think about before finding oneself in trouble, because once it happens you won’t have a lot of time to think and you’d better get it right.
Effective armed self-defense is much less about the gun, or the holster, and much more about how you will respond to certain types of stimuli. I’ve got a good article on the subject, here: http://thirtysecondthoughts.blogspot.com/2005/12/lessons-learned-tacoma-mall-shooting.html
Finally, to ‘RE’ and his idea that unarmed self-defense is a better strategy… wrong. Humans invent tools to multiply our ability to affect our environment. Yes, a well-trained martial artist will prevail over an untrained fighter, but if that untrained fighter is armed, the martial artis will most likely get shot. Give me my .45 and six feet, and let me know you’re coming, and I will put a bullet in you. You may get to me, but I’m going to keep shooting until either I run out of ammo or you run out of blood. In short, having a gun beats not having one, and voluntarily disarming oneself is about the lamest self-defense strategy possible.
Note also that I can take an average human being and train that person sufficiently to be able to successfully defend themself against most attacks in a couple of days via using a gun, whereas it takes months if not years of training to get to the same level of proficiency with martial arts. This is the primary reason that medieval knights and samurai hated commoners armed with longbows or muskets; one rudimentarily-trained peasant could kill a knight with years of training at much expense.
I once read somewhere, “You don’t shoot to kill, You shoot to live”.
is it legal to have hollow points in las vegas i was told if some one breaks in your house and you shoot them with hollow points they can put you in jail for murder 1 .