Groping Hillary Without Consequences: The Case of Jon Favreau
By now, it’s widely known that Jon Favreau, Barack Obama’s soon-to-be director of speechwriting, was caught in a photo fondling the breast of a cardboard cut-out of Senator Clinton while another Obama staffer holds a bottle of beer to her lips. These two young men are smiling broadly in the photo, apparently enjoying their mime of groping Senator Clinton as they get her drunk. What has become almost more startling than this photo is the way it has been addressed, or not addressed, by the incoming Obama administration and the media.
President-elect Obama has not made any public statement about this insulting and sexist behavior on the part of the 27-year-old Favreau. Obama has not seen fit to publicly denounce this behavior, to ensure that Mr. Favreau make a public apology, nor has the president-elect deemed it necessary to fire Mr. Favreau. Instead, Barack Obama has remained silent, providing yet another example of how his actions do not match his words. Barack Obama has stated a commitment to work for women’s rights, including the reduction of violence against women. However, here we have his main speechwriter miming an act that is the prelude to what is now commonly referred to as date rape, miming sexual molestation that is specifically directed toward the woman who in all likelihood will be the next secretary of state, and for this Obama has not a word to say.
Meanwhile, the mainstream media has downplayed Favreau’s actions in numerous ways. CNN anchor Campbell Brown appeared to feel that what Favreau did was wrong. However, after devoting all of three sentences to that, she redirected the bulk of her attention to Senator Clinton’s response, calling Clinton out on what she perceives as Clinton’s change of attitude regarding sexism. In so doing, Ms. Brown perpetuated the blame-the-victim mentality.
CNN aired a segment with Wolf Blitzer, James Carville and Kevin Madden chuckling their way through their commentary. Mr. Blitzer appeared concerned with “how people have to really be careful nowadays,” suggesting that the problem is simply that Favreau got caught. Initially directing his comments to an organization called the New Agenda whose mission is to advance women’s rights, including the issue of violence against women, Mr. Carville spewed: “It’s a piece of cardboard, stupid!” In one fell swoop, Mr. Carville not only spoke in a highly disrespectful and demeaning manner to this group of women (or anyone listening who might have found Favreau’s behavior offensive), but discounted the power of images. Is James Carville seriously suggesting that a cardboard image of a black person hanging by a noose is meaningless because it is cardboard? How might Carville feel about an effigy of a person being beaten or burned? What if that effigy were an image of Mr. Carville? According to Mr. Carville’s misguided rules, there is no reason for concern if another human being interacts with an image because the image is inanimate, as if there is no relationship between images and behavior.
Mr. Carville’s commentary noted that Favreau was “just having a good time” and that “he did absolutely nothing wrong.” Mr. Carville further comments that he hopes he’ll be doing the sort of thing that Favreau did when he is 67. Mr. Carville could not say enough good things about Favreau, describing him as “a very talented young man.” Mr. Carville appeared to feel that the real issue of concern pertained to the “really sick people who put this stuff up” while suggesting that those who posted this photo on the Internet have mental problems.
What a load of paranoid feminst man-hating rubbish.
The writer says ..”Is James Carville seriously suggesting that a cardboard image of a black person hanging by a noose is meaningless because it is cardboard? How might Carville feel about an effigy of a person being beaten or burned?”
How on earth do these images even remotely relate to two young guys acting the idiot with a cardboard cut out of a specific woman who has been the butt of plenty of jokes since she played the faithful wife to her straying husband for the sake of her own political career? There is no equivalence here except where the writer tries to manufacture it to make her whine seem a little less pathetic.
This was a nothing incident – the vast majority of people can tell the difference between a cardboard cut-out and a real person. Sadly the feminist harpies live in Victimland and not the real world so they have to invent their grieviences.
PJM is better than this tripe.
It was a rude, tacky thing to do, but we live in rude, tacky times. I blame the internet.
This behavior is allowed for democrats.
Anna, are familiar with the news cycle? No one cares about this anywhere. You might as well write about the problem of the Edsel.
That picture made me laugh so I guess I’m a terrible person. A cardboard Geraldine Ferraro would have suffered a similar fate in the lounge of my dorm or armory.
You are right about Double Standard No 1 – Republican staffers would have been crucified for this. The rest of your double standards I doubt. Democrats don’t get in trouble for having fun.
Hey all you women out there that voted for Obama, when are you going to figure out that this is what they really think of you. Maybe you should let that sink in for a while.
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By the way, I hope all you rich liberals out there are going to pay a bunch of taxes because Joe Biden said it’s your patriotic duty to do so and I am waiting for my share of the free stuff Obama promised me.
I’ll read the whole article when I have the time but there is nothing wrong with “groping” cardboard cutouts of anyone.
This is a non-issue. Tony, you are right. This essay is just feminist victim-hood fretting, which I completely reject. I’m tired of people getting outraged by crap, when truly outrageous things are happening right under their noses.
The banana republics of NY and IL, for instance.
Ms. Brown,
I don’t disagree with you about any of the double standards you list. But there are a couple of ironies here that feminists should contemplate. First, Hillary Clinton was the enabler-in-chief for a serial groper and rapist (if you believe Juanita Broderick). Consistency is a harsh mistress, whom feminists other than Paglia have been unwilling to follow. Second, if any woman were to entrust her daughter to a man’s care, the odds of gentlemanly treatment are highest for a conservative Southern Christian man and much lower for a liberal, Democrat, atheist or Muslim. By putting the right to abortion above all else, feminists have allied themselves with the likes of James Carville and Teddy Kennedy.
“Violence against women often begins with the behaviors mimed by Jon Favreau and his buddy.”
Adolescent behavior from two guys in a very visible political campaign is one thing…but a prelude to
‘Violence against women’?
That’s a stretch.
Anna dear – you got to get used with the notion that issues become ISSUES only when liberals feel that they might get some wind in their sails from them, issues.
Larry Summers was sent out from Harvard through a gauntlet of yelling, indignant feminist and multiculturalists. Now, since appointed by Obama, the epitome of enlightenment himself, everything is forgotten, forgiven – Naomi Wolfe and Erica Jong have to lie low for a while under their humid rocks, but they’ll reappear at a certain point.
Sarah Palin was throughly stoned by liberals (& feminists) chiefly FOR BEING A WOMAN who might have syphoned women’s votes from the ONE – and I am talking abouy solid liberals & feminist who otherwise are busy ranting about gender iniquity and oppression at any time (a review of the posts in HuffPo at that time is appaling, indeed).
So, ’till a republican will call a dinner waitress “hon” and we’ll have to attend the deserved public execution of that scumbag, everything will be quiet on the genders war front.
I thought it was funny. Stupid, frat boy prank, but I still have to admit that I laughed when I saw the picture.
This is, unfortunately, much ado about nothing. Let’s get back to Blago in Illinois and the noise about Germany getting into bed with Iran. Because, let’s face it, the world has not changed just because Senator Hopenchange is now President-elect Hopenchange.
I’ll read the whole article when I have the time but there is nothing wrong with “groping” cardboard cutouts of anyone.
Chris: what if the cutout was of a child?
what if was a cutout of your mom?
Surprise us all with your cavalier liberal anything goes attitude!
Most seem to miss the major point made in this article. Obama and the liberal establishment preach on womens rights but allow a major staffer a totally free pass. Add in the fact that anyone who is dismayed at this tasteless behavior is just a lunatic or bleeding heart.
This seems like a “nothing issue”. But the context is so important. As Jarhead said, it doubtless would occur in frats and dorms across the country. But that is not the context.
This is the context of the national leadership, not college. Furthermore, the whole of Obama’s campaign was one of optics over policy, style over substance, based on the long-held axiom that in politics appearance is everything. Hence, in the past, politicians have resigned over the “appearance of impropriety” in the absence of any actual wrongdoing. In Obama’s campaign he grudgingly toed the axiomatic line by throwing everyone and everything under the bus, you’ll recall.
This “non-issue”, after Obama’s election, makes it clear that appearance means nothing. We’ve already seen the unseemly resurrection of some of those rumble strips that were his campaign advisors to positions of sway in the transition team. With nothing to restrain this group, what is happening in Chicago, I fear, will be like a molehill compared to a mountain.
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With respect to the news cycle: Team Obama will rely on this to get away with, hopefully not literally, murder. Our job is to blow away the concept of the news cycle. The internet can never forget. And we are the internet.
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And, for what it’s worth, the speechwriter and the aide look like homos. Maybe that’s the unspoken context of why the Obama team, media included, sees this as a non-issue.
It is a stretch to assert that these two bozos are date-rapists in training, but that doesn’t mean that this incident should be dismissed as nothing. You can say they were making a joke, but what was the joke? “If Hillary were here we would try to get her drunk and cop a feel.” Ha ha. ROFL.
This isn’t two random people. Jon Favreau and Hillary Clinton are about to become co-workers. How many other women will have to work with Favreau? What are those woman supposed to think?
Obama’s silence on this is disgusting. At best, he is sending a message that says “If I like the job you do, I don’t care how you treat your co-workers.”
Whether you like Hillary or think she enabled Bill’s bad behavior doesn’t matter. The behavior was juvenile and sexist and shouldn’t have been so quickly dismissed as “no big deal.”
Anyone else remember the left’s indignation about the mannequin of Obama used as a Halloween prop? After all that wasn’t a real person – just a stuffed figure. Anyone else think it would have caused a much bigger uproar if it had been a cutout of Michelle Obama being groped by some drunken Republican minion? To excuse it as “just a cardboard cutout” raises the question as to why viewing child pornographic pictures is a crime since the viewer – not the original photographer – isn’t doing anything to an actual child.
The first thing that came to mind when I saw this photograph was the Don Imus incident during the primaries when he used the “nappy-headed hos” term describing the college women’s basketball champions. Obama was the first presidential candidate to call for Imus to be fired. Wasn’t Imus just trying to be funny? And to everyone who dismisses this behavior, just try doing the same thing at your company Christmas party this year. I’ll be looking for your facebook photo entries. My guess is that the next thing you’ll be posting is your resumes.
Anna,
Bill Clinton defined the role of liberal women Democrats: on their knees. They have been more than happy to swollow this kind of treatment.
This was at least a joke unlike the groping of Kathleen Willey.
So….Get a life. It’s what Democrat men are about.
This is date rape if performed by a Republican deserving prosecution and prison time. Just having fun and ignored by the media if done by a Democrat. With a Republican scandal or imagined scandal, the MSM are prosecuting attorneys. When a Democrat is involved, the MSM are defense attorneys.
Look, if there’s a wronged party anywhere, it’s Hillary Clinton. She seems fine with it.
To Paul from Hamburg: After Jon Favreau works with Secretary of State Clinton, I doubt if it’s going to be an abuser/victim relationship. Come on, seriously, Hillary Clinton a victim of workplace harassment? If, as SecOfState Hillary were unable to handle a speechwriting puke, … well, I just can’t imagine it.
She might keep him around as a boy-toy, though.
If that were my sister, my mom, my friend, my neighbor, my doctor, my lawyer, my indian chief and that offended her, I would reserve the right to punch those two pompous pigs-asses in the mouth.
“What has become almost more startling than this photo is the way it has been addressed, or not addressed, by the incoming Obama administration and the media.”
Startling??? If this election cycle has shown us anything, it is that misogyny is now in fashion in DC.
Mock them, fondle them, burn down their churches, it’s all one big joke to them.
looks like your comments section took a hit from the obama brigade.
)
there very much IS something wrong with completely publicly dismissing groping a cardboard cutout of a female, ANY female, when you are the figurehead for setting the tone of respect towards the same supposedly for the next four years. just another fine example of the quality of “man” that has been elected to the proverbially “highest office” in this country.
what’s next, likewise ignoring when his camp performs an organized act of REPEATEDLY high profile denies others freedom of speech?
oh, wait, HE ALREADY HAS!
seems it is going to be a woefully one-sided presidency (if all continues to go well with covering the tracks behind his first few years of residency anywhere, that is).
Get a life. It IS frat-boy behavior. Even grown-ups sometimes resort to frat-boy behavior. Big deal.
I think we’ve all been too offended at the wrong things. When lefties hung Sarah Palin in effigy, where was the outcry? Let’s get some perspective, folks. Groping a cutout isn’t that serious an offense.
I’m offended by the gender bias that I saw in the election. However, this nonsense didn’t bother me.
Sorry, but I agreed with Carville. It’s much ado about nothing.
If a grown woman has not yet acquired the ability to easily dislocate the thumb and the ego of a frat boy groper, she probably wouldn’t be capable of defending the rights of people (women and men) who are genuinely oppressed.
Talking about making a mountain out of a molehill. It was stupid. Let leave it at that. He is young and the yourng tend to do things like that. I am sure he will be more careful in the future. Hell I am sure I did some things equally stupid when I was his age as did many of you, but we never were in the public eye. Be real!
Hanzie:
You are missing the point. I am sure Hillary Clinton can take of herself. I am trying to point out that Hillary is not the only woman this jerk will work with. What about these other woman? What else will Favreau be allowed to do that will also be dismissed as “nothing”? We conservatives like to deride liberals for favoring symbolism over substance, but sometimes symbolism does matter because it can send a powerful message. If Obama were to fire Favreau, the message would be “If you want to work for me, you will be held to very high standard of behavior.” Instead, in his silence, Obama is saying “If you want to work for me, I can’t promise that you won’t have to put up with sexist garbage.”
I’m glad that Ms. Brown has time to worry about this in the middle of two wars, auto bailouts, $2 Trillion Wall Street bailouts.
The administration sets the tone for the rest of government, and perhaps the mainstream media and culture. When they demean and disrespect women, as we clearly witnessed during the election, there is likely to be a ripple effect throughout society.
This is not about Hillary Clinton or Sarah Palin’s ability to stand up for themselves. Of course they can, and do. This is about the tone set by an administration that appears oblivious to how such behavior may be perceived and emulated by others in government.
Oh be sensible, please. It will be a sad day when we become like the Democrats, whining about every faux gender and racial “insult.” Of course there are two standards, one for “D,” and another for “R,” and press hypocrisy everywhere. That’s why we choose to be Republicans, isn’t it? My husband would have done the same thing at that age, and probably did. It was a c-a-r-d-b-o-a-r-d cutout, fergodsake.
Whoever said: “This essay is just feminist victim-hood fretting…”
This is what I hate about partisan politics: pretending that there was no foul, just because the foul was done to someone on the other side.
This would be mildly amusing if it wasn’t a 27 year old man and the head speech writer for the soon to be President of the United States Obama who posted this on My Space for his cool friends to share in ….what happen to Hope and Change? Was all that a lie?
Yup
This is an excellent blog post. The reactions of many illustrate that misogyny flourishes in this culture.
For those who are insisting “It was a c-a-r-d-b-o-a-r-d cutout, fergodsake”, I refer you to the Jim Crow Museum of Racist Memorabilia which includes many representations of race hatred. Are these not troubling? Certainly they are not as troubling as acts of race hatred, such as lynching. But they are troubling. And I doubt you would tolerate a president who kept somebody on his staff who posed with a “Mammy” for kicks.
I find it repulsive that so many of you seem to find this type of behavior okay. What I cannot believe is that there are women out there who condone it as a prank. Would you feel the same if it were your mother? Or your grandmother. Is it okay because it is a cardboard cut-out? Is that your point, because that justification is ridiculous. This is demeaning to women everywhere, it is as much as saying that regardless of your status, intelligence, you will still never be more than an object to grope.
As a former counselor for women, those of you that find this okay, get some therapy, you need it.
Tinfoil Hatter said:
I’m glad that Ms. Brown has time to worry about this in the middle of two wars, auto bailouts, $2 Trillion Wall Street bailouts.
And I’m glad you have time to worry about Ms. Brown in the middle of all of that. Fact is, this sort of thing is precisely what’s behind the two wars, auto bailouts, and wall street bailouts: the frat boy mentality that plays with symbols, plays with the truth, and is just having fun no matter who gets hurt.
ok, some of you who think boys will be boys, what would you do if that were you sister, mother, wife, or daughter? yeah i thought so. put the fists back in your pockets. the point is this “boys”. keep your dang hands off women with a ill conceived idea in mind whether she is cardboard or real. got it! further more take your gender bias and put it well you know. thanks ever so!
Anyone can post comments on the Internet and there are no mental qualifications to do so; therefore, we should avoid giving any respect to the “oh, it was just fun” comments here as if they are coming from smart, informed, nice, or even emotionally mature people.
Anyone who does not understand that Jon Favreau has created a hostile work environement for all the women soon to be working at the Obama White House is a jerk, and his/her comments on this issue should be ignored in the same way one would ignore the drivel coming out of the mouths of any card-carrying jerks.
I seem to recall that Barack Obama was one of the very first to publicly call for the firing of Don Imus for his on-air remark that offended the sensibilities of liberals nationwide over the issue of race and gender.
See Obama’s video clip here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioYrNYsNUfY
Obama’s own rule book calls for strict enforcement against those who offend on racial lines. As in many other instances, Mr. Obama does not see fit to follow his own rule book.
Where are the firings? What’s good for the goose…
“Violence against women often begins with the behaviors mimed by Jon Favreau and his buddy.”
Brought to you by the Proof By Repeated Assertion school of “thought” (or what passes for it.) There’s no proof of this; there’s merely assertion, which gets repeated.
When Jon Favreau exhibits the inability to distinguish between a cardboard cutout and behaviours he can use with living, breathing females*, I might pretend to listen to an argument like yours, but not until.
*not applicable to Hillary, who _is_ a cardboard cutout.
Why do people keep comparing this to what happens in every frat dorm?
Could it be that Favreau in the pic resembles very closely a fratboy just fooling around when drunk, and with nothing better to do.
If Favreau were 18, and were a fratboy, and were drunk, and in a dorm,-of course it would be excusable.
But he isn’t. He’s 27-past fratboy age. He has an important political job. The pic was deliberately posted on his facebook page. The other people in the pic are the other members of Obama’s speecwriting team-Yes BTW that was the WHOLE of his speechwriting team.
Where are they then- getting bored together at work. Why was Hillary Clinton’s cut-out there? I would suggest for that purpose-to throw things at, goggle at, and play with. Very demeaning and petty behavior -on their part.
Reading through the comments and wanted to respond to a few:
First, no one should assume that this piece means I am a “feminist”, a Democrat, or a person who voted for Obama and now see the chickens coming home to roost. It is quite possible, and even reasonable, that a person (male or female) would simply be disgusted by Favreau’s behavior and find it unacceptable for what it is and find it unacceptable that the incoming administration appears to tolerate it.
Also, no reason to assume that because this piece was published here and you happen to read it that means I do not care about any other issues in the world. How absurd. Of course I do. The two are not mutually exclusive.
As for comments thata this is old news re: “the news cycle” I would just like to say that this comment surprises me on a site like Pajamas Media which is a place of welcome relief from what the msm decides is important. If we allow ourselves to let the msm dictate what should be on the front page and for how long and what level of importance is should have, then we are all a bunch of sheep. What’s the point of thinking for oneself?
As for comments that think Favreau’s behavior was no problem, I will leave those unaddressed. Clearly we see things differently.
I am sick of these frat and blogger boiz who think they can do and say anything no matter how offensive it is as long as it’s about a woman. If you dare say anything about Obama you are hounded and labeled as a racist. Frankly, I am sick of this type of behaviour and I do not accept a “boys will be boys” attitude that is exactly how we got into this mess in the first place. Grow up blogger dudes and Obama had better wake up and make a statement like firing this moron or he will have dealt mysogny card.
Hopefully, the Blogo/Rezko case takes him down and he never sees the inside of the White House.
Alex,
When you start squealing out insults to people who dont agree with your worldview then you lose any of the so-called moral highground you try so hard to ordain yourself with.
The two guys were stupid. If it was a cut-out of my mother I’d be pissed off and would probably want to thump them, however my mother would have had a good laugh at it. I don’t get why everyone is trying to drag in effigies of hanging black people and child porn. Thats just nonsense. It really is. Anyone who sees this as some sort of de facto rape and the end of womens rights as we know it are……well…….wrong.
I guess you have to start with the fact that most of the people here hate Obama. Once you admit that anything goes no matter how stupid and irrelevant
Look, I think the real Hillary is safe…not even Bill would touch that….gives me the willies just to think of it…
Thankyou, Thankyou, Finally, someone sees this for what the image shows. And to all of the people NOT seeing this for what it is, CHANGE!
I am just horrified that anyone could think Favreau’s behavior deserves anything less than immediate termination. I don’t know what is wrong with people. Even more disturbing are the attacks on the author of this article. Favreau would have been fired immediately in the private sector and I was deeply offended by this picture. Now is it okay to rip this author to shreds because she has a different opinion than you and dared to share it? I don’t understand why this is a partisan issue? Wrong is wrong and it doesn’t matter which party someone is in. Can’t we ever just drop all the party crap and stand up together? This is just depressing.
You know what, Tony, I don’t give a rat’s a__ what you or your mother think or would do.
This man is going to have a powerful position at the White House. What he writes will come out of the mouth of the president. Favreau’s behavior matters. Favreau’s actions matter.
Your words and actions (and your mother’s) mean zip to me.
The other people in that photo are Obama speech writers. Why is there a cadboard cutout of Hillary Clinton in Obama speechwriters’ room?
How does anyone know that these guys are drunk? Because one of them is holding a beer? That doesn’t mean anyone is drunk.
If the people molesting the cardboard cutout were Jon Doe and James Dough – one can say, hey what’s the big deal? But these people are not just regular Jon Does. They are quite high up in Obama’s inner circle. And Favreau posted the picture to his Facebook account when he was no longer under the influence of alcohol (if he was even under the influence of alcohol when the photo was taken.) It is the height of stupidity for someone in their position to not only take that picture, but to share it with all of their friends on the internet!
If that cutout had been of Michelle Obama – Favreau would be out of a job before you can say “fired.” But it’s Hillary, so that’s ok!
Comparison to someone hanging a Barack Obama cardboard cutout is quite apt. Or how about someone in McCain’s campaign posting next to an Obama cutout wearing a white hood? Still laughing?
Excellent article and nice rebuttal to inane commenters by the author @ 43
Said Scott to Chris above:
“what if was a cutout of your mom?”
That didn’t matter to the woman whose likeness is in that cutout, and who, according to #9 ridgerunner above, “was the enabler-in-chief for a serial groper and rapist.” Those were women, not cutouts, who were assaulted and raped.
Until Hillary publicly denounces and humiliates Slick Willie for his criminal behavior, I don’t care two pennies for what anyone, of any social stripe, does to a cardboard cutout with her likeness.
Hell, let someone put it on the ground and walk on it, as Bill Ayers or any number of Iranians and “Palestinians” do with the United States flag. See if the media gives a pass to that as well.
I voted McCain and would have voted Thompson, Gulliani, Romeny (in that order) and in no way was prepared to vote for for Obama or Clinton seeing that politically I disagree with their message. That said, who cares what a speechwriter does with a cardboard cut out. Hell, I don’t care what anyone does with an effigy either.
For those who mention the artifacts one finds in Jim Crow themed museums, those are remembrances of an era we have moved past but keep in mind that the crime was in doing to actual living and breathing people what it is those effigies symbolized. When Brits “burn the Guy” what does that say of British attitudes towards Catholics today? Nothing. They hardly recall why Guy Faulks tried to blow up Parliment, why he was executed or that they are commemorating the execution of a man who was trying to bring England back into the bosom of the Catholic Church. They do it because that is what people do on Guy Faulks Day. The same with the cardboard cutout. Sometimes adults behave like fratboys and unless that behavior actually harms someone, I see no reason that a job be lost, an apology be made, or how one can claim to read woman hater into a tactless act. To take that reading further and to paint a whole party as a misogynist bunch is simply partisan ridiculousness.
Men behaving badly,what a shocker. Whats next an expose on them missing the toilet?
Let’s see –We seem to have a few hysterical women, including Brown, who think symbolically honking a flat cardboard hooter is a firing offense.
(Nor is the record exactly clear if the photo captured a momentary brush, an accidental pass by the flat hooter area, or if there were repeated honks. Nor if the “lads” also symbolically choked the cardboard cutout, kissed it against it’s will, physically knocked it over. To feminists – perhaps the photo showing hooter-honking – is just the tip of the iceberg on many outrageous crimes inflicted on the cardboard figure.)
Ladies – why are you so determined to prove woman’s sufferage was a big mistake?
PS: I think several prominent Bush appointees, including Rice and Hughes, on a night out, were spotted mugging at a cardboard cutout of Brad Pitt and honking (it’s) buns.
Anna — great post and great parsing of the double standards here.
The silence of groups like NOW and WMC is disappointing, if unsurprising.
The commenters above who are making comments about “cardboard” miss the point. Of course, nobody was physically harmed here, and the target is not claiming emotional or economic harm. But those are the standards for a formal claim to be made in court, not for action to be taken. And in fact, if this was part of a pattern for Favreau, as is likely, female co-workers would have a cause of action for sexual harrassment, as anyone familiar with the requirements for such a claim will know.
But we’re not talking litigation here, we’re talking what’s appropriate. This sends a message to all the women who saw the picture about what representatives of the administration think about women. And anyone who thinks that’s only two dimensional has very limited gray matter.
If women are going to be outraged at this man’s behavior, perhaps they should tell their younger sisters to stop acting like bimbos when going to bars, spring break, whereever.
Apparently it is expected for a young woman to flash her breasts anytime a film crew is in the vicinity.
As for this man creating a hostile work environment? Give me a break. This was at a party. I am sure the lady’s attending did not shrink up in horror. Like I said, if my experience is any indication, they were also engaging in rowdy behavior.
Every day, men are vilified and abused by feminists. There are entire departments in universities dedicated to spreading hatred against men in the name of “gender studies”. Feminists accuse men of being solely responsible for all the evils in the world.
When feminists stop doing these things, I’ll start listening to them.
Until then, grow up and get some perspective, girls.
#41 G Alston – Point taken regarding the issue of an “assertion.” You’re right. I do not have the science to prove that Faavreau’s actions directly lead to a certain behavior between real people. So, let me rephrase: Favreau’s actions are part of a larger social context that appears to tolerate the degredation of women, be it through symbols or in direct interactions with women. As noted in my piece, I happen to believe that symbols are powerful tools and are used in myriad ways, from advertising to political manipulation, etc. I don’t minimize their meaning. In any case, you are correct regarding the point that you raise and I appreciate you posting it, albeit in a sarcastic manner.
The silliness and feminist victimization whining going on here is pathetic. God, what weak little ineffectual crybabies you sound like. You want to be on equal footing with men? Crying like that over a piece of cardboard? Dear, delicate, perpetual victim-chicks, you can only dream. Men brush off worse than that 5 times a day, minimum. If men had spent the time some of you do whining and wringing your hands while crying for special treatment because you’re an oh-so tender girl being victimized by the big mean man touching cardboard, the luxury you live in would not exist.
The author may be all of the things that she is accused of being. If so, So what?
Mr. Favreau, now the number one speechwriter in the U.S. is a professional propagandist. For him to even pretend that he does not understand the power of both words and images have in influencing public opinion would be akin to Jeffry Skilling’s little act of pretending that the CFO of a corporation should not be expected to understand the accounting.
Favreau posted the image, the last I knew he still had it up in front of anyone who looks at his account. He has the right to believe women to be lesser beings. As an individual he also has the right to express that belief. Because he is the chief speechwriter for the President Elect he no longer speaks just for himself.
The administration sets the tone for the rest of government, and perhaps the mainstream media and culture. When they demean and disrespect women, as we clearly witnessed during the election, there is likely to be a ripple effect throughout society.
I object to this idea (and related state-sponsored hysteria about sex in the workplace) because it teaches women to revel in their status as victims. When women prattle and whine about being ‘demeaned’ when we demand that the strong, muscular state must protect us, we encourage men to see us as weak.
If you believe that you can’t defend yourself, you’re likely to believe that you’re too weak to defend others. If women are overcome with vapors by something as inconsequential as this, if we don’t learn to stand up for ourselves in random situations, how can we effectively compete with men in the workplace? If we’re constantly whining and crying about identity politics, how can we effectively mentor young women? How can we ever prove that we can do real work?
The opportunity was there (and frankly, still is) for Mr. Obama to issue a press release advising that he was not comfortable employing an individual displaying this kind of an attitude, and that Mr. Favreau was no longer his speechwriter. I don’t care how talented the young man may be (or perceived to be); are you telling me is the only speechwriter available for this position? The point is, Mr. Obama could have made a statement and elevated himself above this kind of behavior, and sadly, at least as of this date, he has declined to do so.
Their behavior broadcasts what kind of individuals they are.
James Carville’s non-response to it broadcasts what kind of individual he is.
None of the fallout from this kind of crap should be dependent on the reaction (or lack of) from the “victim”. These guys are just jerks, demonstrating themselves to be jerks.
Obama is a mulatto jerk who doesn’t mind what they did. Is that really a surprise to anyone? Come on, people.
That photo shows total disrespect for a sitting female Senator and former first lady. All violence against women starts with an attitude of disrespect toward women. Sexism and misogyny are learned behaviors.
That sexist and disrespectful attitude against women permeates every part of our society and needs to be stopped now. There are NO exceptions.
Everyone who finds this type of behavior acceptable, funny, amusing, or gives it a pass is guilty of sexism and misogyny, and should be held accountable as an accessory to violence against women. There is absolutely NO excuse to justify sexism and misogyny.
EVERY YEAR: 2 Million to 4 MILLION women in the U.S. are assaulted by their male partners
(These numbers do not include assaults against women by males who are strangers. An exact number of assaults against women by their male partners is not available, since law enforcement officials do not think that keeping better track of these numbers is important.)
In comparison, there were 2,640 anti-black crimes in 2006 (CNN, Lou Dobbs, May 23, 2008).
So which is the bigger problem in this country, sexism or racism?
If there were 2 to 4 million anti-black racial crimes per year, there would be endless massive riots throughout the country and Marshall Law declared.
These violence-against-women numbers are horrendous and everyone should be outraged. But there is too little outrage, and too much acceptance. Violence against women is such an ignored issue because women are not valued in this sexist society.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-03/13/content_7779620.htm
http://www.ndvh.org/get-educated/abuse-in-america/
Since the Iraq war started in March, 2003, there have been 4,209 U.S. soldiers killed.
Since the Iraq war started in March, 2003, there have been 8,050 U.S. women killed by their male partners.
So which is the bigger problem, Muslim terrorists in the Middle East or male terrorists at home?
To all of those posting here who have seen this as an opportunity to insult Hillary Clinton, get help, seek counseling.
I seriously doubt you are able to sustain healthy relationships with other humans.
Male Dominance Causes Rape
http://journaloffeministinsight.blogspot.com/2008/12/male-dominance-causes-rape.html
“Rape is not a natural act for men. A study by anthropologist Peggy Reeves Sanday found that in cultures with a high incidence of rapes, the economic, religious, and political structures are controlled by men.
In Sandays study of 44 societies that were not patriarchal, there was virtually no rape.”
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache…lnk&cd=4&gl=us
Peggy Reeves Sanday documented that rape is virtually non-existent in societies where women have equal power as men.
She studied dozens of equal gender societies. Sexism like the Favreau photo causes rape. It is documented.
The only way we will ever stop rape/child molestation is to give women the same power and respect that men have.
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showpost.php?p=536241&postcount=95
Mary
I, for one, am not “reveling,” nor am I “prattling”, “whining” or “crying”. You are overlaying those judgements which is, of course, your right to do. In so doing, you have a heavy hand in demeaning what I wrote, which again, is your right to do.
As for hoping the “state” protects us/me, complex issue. I neither look to the state to take care of me in the exagerated way that you describe, not do I expect the state to be out-of-the picture. We do have laws and we have them for a reason. The state protects all of us, from seatbelt laws to laws against homocide and everything in between.
As for the ideas expressed in your last paragraph, by writing and in countless other ways, I do act to “defend” myself. In fact, I’ll take it one step further, by speaking out against Favreau’s behavior and Obama’s lack of response, I am mentoring young women.
Regarding your last question, I think it is very provocative because, in my view, despite incredibly accomplishments, it appears that in the eyes of many, it is impossible for us to “prove that we can do real work.”
Part of my work is that I write and I call it as I see it. Obviously you and I disagree, but I am glad that you feel it is important to find ways to effectively mentor young women and roll up our sleeves and get to work. I truly hope you do this in your life and assume that it takes shape in a way that feels valid and meaningful to you.
Great article, anna.
Unfortunately I am not shocked by some of the comments here. We live in a culture of misogyny.
As to women wanting to “revel in their status as victims”, if drunken frat boy had disrespected one of my daughters that way, he would be the one “whining like a weak little ineffectual crybaby.”
In fact judging from his behavior he already is a weak ineffectual little crybaby, apparently with major mommy issues, much like the man he works for.
Just saying…this sentence made me laugh.
“…caught in a photo fondling the breast of a cardboard cut-out of Senator Clinton while another Obama staffer holds a bottle of beer to her lips…”
Um…cardboard cut-outs don’t have breasts.
lorieaselin,
I love it. Laughing at tastelessness is equal to aiding and abetting a crime.
Your comments made me want to kill my wife and daughter. Well done. Now you are responsible for murder.
A true man recognizes and practices the “give respect to get respect” principle. Those posting here who think this incident is funny or laughable are a sorry representation for real men; this isn’t about cardboard, drinking, or general boys will be boys. Mr. Favreau’s conduct reveals an attitude unsuited for the position he currently holds, and if Mr. Obama is unable to bring himself to remove Favreau, that’s an even sorrier comment on Mr. Obama’s character.
An adult male, and Favreau is no kid, should be held responsible for denigrating, sexist behavior. Especially when he sets the verbal tone for the President. If my husband posted pictures of himself gleefully groping the image of a female colleague he would lose his job. It’s sexual harassment. For Favreau to disrespect our next Secretary of State, and for the President to not call him on it, is a base and sexist insult towards not just Hillary Clinton but all women. Further, it makes a mockery of America and our next Secretary of State. As with racism, everyone loses when sexism is tolerated and excused. So stop the excuses folks. Time to buck up and act like grown ups instead of schoolyard bullies.
This is silly. This was a cut-out cardboard. What if he kissed the cardboard of Clinton? Would he be excoriated for not asking for permission?
Good article that states the plain facts.
Anyone who tolerates this sort of behaviour is not fit to govern. Sure, you can say it’s a reflection on the frat boy attitude that lasts until well into so-called adulthood now, with no one man enough to stand up to them. Except it is going to be concentrated in the White House. Obama’s silence is tacit approval. He made more subtle gestures himself during the campaign, using “the finger” while speaking hypocritically about Hillary and his opponent. No dignity. No Dr Martin Luther King.
Four more years.
This is guys “just having fun?” What if it had been Hilary supporters trying to force feed an Obama cutout some fried chicken and a Colt 45? All in good fun? Get a grip1 Favreau shouldn’t be able to work at a Burger King without some sensitivity training and he’s Obama’s go-to guy when it comes to wowing Americans? I suggest he spend some time in a domestic violence shelter then see what his idea of “fun” is. What a jerk!
Anna Brown,
Thank you so much for writing about this. I love your list of double standards. Barack Obama demonstrated throughout the primaries and general election that he has no respect for women. His behavior toward Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin was shockingly misogynistic, and his supporters and the media followed his lead. He has set back women’s rights by 30 years and made women in the U.S. less safe from sexual assault. If Favreau continues to work for the Obama administration, Obama will have created a workplace atmosphere that is intimidating and unsafe for any woman working for him. Favreau needs to go.
And yes, commenters like you, “Jarhead,” are also misogynists. I pity any woman in your life.
This is so sad. The incident continues to hurt because it has not been addressed. A response needs to come directly from Barack Obama addressing the attempted humiliation of one member of his staff by another. Another possible response would be a public apology directly from Favreau. That it does not even rate a response says volumes. I, and many others have written to Valerie Jarrett asking for him to be removed from staff. That hasn’t happened, the outrage has been well expressed to Obama’s transition team, and still, no response.
As far as Carville’s “grow up, girls” response, I wonder if he and other men who feel the same way are trying to imagine what they would feel if a cardbaord cut out of them was being groped by two females. That is not even close to the comparison. The way it makes me feel is to imagine that is a cut out of me and male co-workers are doing this to my image at a party. It is disgusting to imagine their childish entertainment at my expense. It really does not matter that it is an image of a person rather than the actual person. In fact, it makes it more childish and sickening that a supposed adult in charge of crafting the president’s words performed such an act behind Hillary’s back but would never consider doing such a thing to her face.
Ish. Everytime I discuss this I need to go wash……….
I find the number of men commenting on this article who just don’t get it about misogyny, symbolic or otherwise, or who could care less if they do, appalling. Favreau’s stunt should disqualify him for a staff position. It would in any corporation I’ve worked for. Obama’s failure to attend to the matter sullies his image as an agent of change. Or maybe he only meant change for the guys.
Great article! Favreau should go. So should Larry Summers, for that matter.
Jim #76
Well said
Favreau’s behavior is offensive and digusting. What is deeply concerning is Favreau’s brazen disrespect toward women. I am surprised that Favreau has not removed the picture from his Facebook page (It’s still there), and even more surprised that he has not been fired. Such disrespect should not be tolerated.
I hope that Obama will not find it acceptable to have as part of his administration’s culture the continuation of an old boys club mentality, where men chuckle, jeer at, disrespect, and degrade women, including the woman who will be your Secretary of State.
Anna – I was addressing my comments towards the person I quoted, FLMom. I should have included her name in my response, sorry about that.
I have no problems with your article, which mostly seems to be concerned with a partisan attack against Obama. Since I’m an independent with no great allegiance to the Republicans or the Democrats, I don’t really care about red vs. blue issues.
However, I am embarrassed by attempts to portray all women as potential victims, deserving of (and desperately needing) special support and pity. As a woman, it’s harder to ignore that particular form of argument.
Yes, rape and the general mistreatment of women is an important issue, but that’s not the issue that’s being focused on here. We’re not talking about women who are being oppressed by a legal system or apartheid religious/cultural laws. We’re talking about 2 gainfully employed, powerful adults who are capable of discussing and coming to terms with a minor incident without our help or involvement.
Rape and the worldwide oppression of women is not silly, but statements like “He has set back women’s rights by 30 years and made women in the U.S. less safe from sexual assault. ” ..are.
The jubilant portrayal of sexual assault by an Obama aide, Favreau, should immediately result in his removal from any position in the new administration. How would you feel if this was your mother, sister, Michelle Obama, Obama’s daughters or others. It’s just plain wrong.
Obama promised hope and change. I would assume this includes the obvious: sexism, disregard and disrespect will not be tolerated in an Obama administration.
What I’m getting from these misogynists (Obama and Carville and some of the commenters here) is: Every problem is more important then women’s rights to be respected and unmolested. Women’s rights will always be dead last if we have any thing to say about it. We like our fun at women’s expense, so don’t try to go about spoiling it or we’ll insist you have no sense of humor or that you’re a bitch or a hag or whatever we can say that will reduce you to less than a full human being.
Brilliant piece Anna. Keep up the good work!
What kind of world does Obama want for his daughters?
• A world that promotes the old boys club mentality, where men chuckle, jeer at, disrespect, and degrade women, including women in high level positions?
• A world where women are objectified, held below the glass ceiling, and paid less than their male counterparts?
• A sexist world where, daily, women are victims of sexual harassment, domestic violence, rape and abuse?
Why hasn’t Favreau been fired? What kind of world do you wish for your daughters?
# 86 Mary
Thanks for clarifying. I think my article was taking on (or at least trying to) several issues: 1) the inappropriate, sexist behavior of Favreau, 2) how Favreau’s behavior contributes to an overall environment of acceptance of the degradation of women, 3) the tolerance of his behavior by the Obama team and the msm, and 4) some double standards I could not help but wonder about.
Regarding your third paragraph, I don’t think my piece was attempting to portray “all women as potential victims”, but perhaps that comment is not directed toward what I wrote. Not sure. As for “deserving of (and desperately needing) special support and pity,” I don’t agree with that assessment. In speaking for myself, I’m not looking for special support or pity. Just that classic Aretha Franklin notion of R.E.S.P.E.C.T.
Your next paragraph offers an interesting perspective. However, for me, it’s a judgement call as to whether the incident is “minor”, a call all of us here are making in different ways…all subjective. As for Favreau and Clinton needing our help or involvement, I think that you’re correct that they are certainly capable of dealing with it between themselves, as they appear to have done. But that doesn’t exclude another person’s taking note and having a perspective on it that may be different from the one Favreau and Clinton had (or at least the one they expressed to one another). All sorts of things occur every day, from events in ordinary lives to world events that one might say others should remain silent on because it’s just between ______, but that’s not how the world works. Just because Favreau and Clinton worked it out between themselves doesn’t preclude anyone else from having a different perspective and their own thoughts about it.
But, I hear where you’re coming from and respect what appears to be a well thought out view on matters pertaining to women’s rights. More power to you for that.
Why do we focus on the stupidity of youth while the economy of the US festers and disintegrates? How can any Republican can face him/herself in the mirror with the disaster Bush has made of the US these past years? Bush leaves hastily in disgrace as America sinks. He has made a mess of this country. The real story is how many hard-working, decent Americans have and will suffer because of Bush. All else pales.
The article is right on. People have been fired for much less: Sheehan for saying ‘cocaine’, Ferraro; Obama even fired his own staffer for calling Hillary a ‘monster’ (in an open mike or on/off record accident iirc).
Anglachelg has a very good post about this at her blog.
Edward
I’m sure any of us could some up with a priority list and would assume the economy would be right up there. As for the issue of Bush, I’m sure there are some who blame him for everything and others who are sick of him being blamed for everything, and everything in between. In any case, are you’re suggesting that every single piece of writing be about the topic of your post and nothing else? Depending on how passionately you feel, you could always write a piece about the issues noted in your post yourself. And finally, as one small example of how complex the world is and how intertwined so many things are, my local paper this week had on the front page a featured article about how women’s shelters are closing because of the ripple effects of the economic collapse and the tragic irony of the timing because women are most likely to be battered 1) during the holidays, and 2) when the economy is doing poorly and unemployment is high.
Not so simple.
fsteele
Yeah, and as for Ms. Power, is seems Obama rehired her late last month:
State Department officials said Friday that Samantha Power is among foreign policy experts the president-elect’s office selected to help the incoming administration prepare for Clinton’s anticipated nomination as secretary of state. The Obama transition team’s Web site includes Power’s name as one of 14 members of the “Agency Review Team” for the State Department. During the Democratic primary campaign, Power called Clinton “a monster” in an interview. She then resigned, calling her remarks inexcusable and contradictory to her admiration for Clinton.
This article is spot on – about the double standards, about Carville’s pathetic response, and especially about Obama’s refusal to make a public statement about the matter. Of course, this would be consistent with own sexist view of women and treatment of them. He was the one who flipped Hillary the middle finger, and when questioned about it, lacked the testicular fortitude to own up to it – like some high school freshman. He lacks even a modicum of class. If that were not the case, Obama would have at least given his usual bs statement… “That’s not the Jon I knew.” I mean he’s said it about Wright, Phleger, Ayers, and on and on. He might have at least used the opportunity to send a message to young men and boys – that this is inappropriate behavior. One would think he would want to send a message to young girls too, especially since he has daughters, assuring them that they have a right to demand that their bodies not be objectified and molested. Yet another missed (or totally ignored) opportunity by Obama to do the right thing. How many more missed opportunities will we witness before he’s out of office?
“Every problem is more important then women’s rights to be respected and unmolested.”
Nobody, not a man or woman, has the right to respect. Respect is earned. As for the right to be unmolested, a woman’s right to be unmolested is no more important then a man’s right to be unmolested. I’m nor sure we need to amend the Constitution for the sake of protecting paper from molestation.
I don’t think that this sort of behavior should get anyone fired from a corporation anymore then it aught to be reason to fire a speechwriter for the president.
Those of you accusing people of misogyny can do it all you want. I wouldn’t have an issue if Favreau were tickling Obama’s cardboard testicles. This is just silly behavior and lending significance to this behavior is a distraction from much more important issues. You do realize that the currency you are being paid in, that you use to buy and sell things with, that you are stashing away for a rainy day or retirement is in the process of being made worthless? Lets get off this issue of symbolic misogyny and remember that what is in another person’s heart is not so easy to gauge.
it’s a good article…to Edward A…you speak of “hard working decent Americans”…well, decent Americans, hard working or otherwise do not disrespect or denegrate a WOMAN…any woman, much less a stateswoman that will be representing what’s good about our Country to the world. This is not about the stupidity of youth, this is about allowing, condoning, and thereby encouraging this kind of disrespect. This issue in our country is a very important issue that should not be taken so lightly…In another country Favreau would have been hung for less!
Slap em on the wrist till they blow her brains out
http://freemenow.wordpress.com/2008/12/16/slap-em-on-the-wrist-till-they-blow-her-brains-out/
No laughing matter CNN, no slap on the wrist matter either! Who will join me?
Louisa’s law Maybe ? Keep the offenders away from these women not drive the women into shelters and away from their homes.
Do you have any idea how many women get their brains blown out daily in this country because we are too damned easy on men who abuse women? They abuse their wives and their families and the major reason they continue to do is because women have so little protection and because they are slapped on the wrist – they keep getting away with it till they finally blow someone’s brains out then they land in jail where a lot of them should have been kept in the first place.
Better yet – the first time they started to show disrespect for women and girls if we stood our ground- maybe it wouldn’t be a joke that that leaves me tonight looking at two daughters battling for their very lives! One from Cancer and the other from the gunshot wound to the head from the 23 year abuser who was left to become worse and worse till he finally became a would be murderer!
It all started with blond jokes- that the guys in the locker rooms thought were funny at the girl’s expense. Unchecked it graduated to degrading language then to shoves, then to short stints for spousal abuse which wound up sending the abuser right back home to abuse again.
Just On June 16th 2008 this man, attacked my sleeping cancer patient daughter with a hammer to the skull for her pain drugs. He spent 3 months in Jail then pled guilty to a lesser charge and they let him out ROR, and it ended up with her sister Louisa my youngest daughter’s brains on the living room wall last night!
You bet the 180 degree turn-a-round from fire Favreau to maybe we should send him to a battered women’s shelter and fix the bastard was a bit personal! Now I am on a death watch for two daughters.
CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?
This has got to stop – too many innocent females are destroyed daily because we will not stand up and fight like hell. We want this stopped this was not a laughing matter CNN boys – come to Hackensack, Medical Center NJ and take a look at my daughter- Louisa Rodas. She has less than a 50/50 chance of surviving and if she does she will have one eye – one ear a half of a head and be paralyzed on one side – we have no idea how much brain damage. STOP THIS NOW – PLEASE! For all our daughters !
I want Obama to take action. Not only is the Office of Secretary of State being disrespected, but O’s administration looks like a joke.
I mean, THIS is the guy who is behind all the words of Obama–the words that made people CRY and SWOON?
THAT jackass? (How *easily* people were manipulated!)
Obviously, he is not only sexist, but highly immature and a liability to Obama.
He needs to be fired.
This is NOT a FRAT HOUSE!
It’s time to get serious!
This is supposed to be the most serious work: working for leader of free world!
We cannot put up with this BS. We don’t need these distractions. He needs to be fired!!!!!
It’s time to GROW UP!
As Anglachelg said, this is disrespect to the office of Sec of State. It sends the world the message that the President does not respect her office.
Try thinking outside your cheetos box, kids.
Well, why shouldn’t Jon Favreau get to grope Hillary Clinton’s cardboard cutout without consequence? After all, Batrack (misspelling intended) Obama has condoned this behavior throughout his campaign. It all started when Triple J, said “How do you beat a white woman?, OJ comes to mind.” right after Iowa. Then we had the stupid, sexist remarks by Tony McPeak (who Obama has yet to reward… sure it’s coming), about Hillary not being strong enough. Then he and the adulterer, John Edwards, both attacked Hillary during a debate and Obama condescendingly told her she was “likable enough”. Later, I think it was just before he called a reporter “Sweetie”, he made a comment about Hillary having “emotional periods”. And let’s not even talk about the “lipstick on a pig” Sarah Palin comment, I mean, come on, how is Jon, who obviously is in love with Obama supposed to act? Hey, the way to a man’s heart is to act like him, right Jon?
lorieaselin: Dear God. I’m so sorry. And yes, our law enforcement and courts don’t treat violence against women seriously enough to stop menaces like these before they kill. This happens over and over and over again. We need more women in positions of power, women who respect the rights of women to just…live.
I am very near to you and was born in that hospital. You are and will be in my thoughts and prayers.
Would you want your daughter working with this guy? Your wife? Your mother?
Tony and all the fun-loving mysoginists are so classic: blame Hillary! The victim is the problem. I love men-the kind that don’t need to put their partners down to get it – -!
It’s not a matter of our provincial USA standards. Pictures go around the world, to other countries. To avoid admitting Favreau made a blunder, Obama is letting this endanger F. and Hillary and himself when they visit other countries.
#103nene
The person whose daughters are dying is “freemenow”, not lorie. She’s a wonderful lady and deserves all our love and support.
Remember what was said about the Clintons’ words being taken as ‘racist’ — ‘Perception is reality.’
For too many survivors of frat house ‘date rape’ incidents, this picture sent those signals. So Favreau has to go. He should have known better. He’s a fool we don’t need in the White House.
This has to be embarressing to Obama and I expect they’ll both be terminated shortly. Totally unacceptable behavior for grown professional men representing the president elect to engage in.
I wonder if they pack eggs and shaving cream on Halloween. Nyuck, nyuck!
Anna, you’re right about Obama re-hiring Samantha Powers the Monster woman. But for Favreau, even a token temporary firing would be better than nothing!
Obama’s silence shows disrespect for HIllary and for the office of Sec of State, for the foreign governments she will visit, etc.
Of course Obama would have to get Favreau or someone to write his speeches by email and phone, since Obama has no brain of his own. But it won’t be good for him to see cartoons in foreign press with his famous lines associated with that groping idiot. Head of White House speechwriting department?!?!?!
It’s disgusting Obama doesn’t fire Favreau, but even more disgusting our mainstream media has looked the other way on this one. Not suprising, though, the media is so blindsided by its own state of denial, nothing short of a cardboard cutout of Lorena Bobbitt would get their frikkin attention.
Idiots!
Favreau needs to apologize to Hillary Clinton and to ALL American women. And then he needs to be FIRED.
Anna, like they all said, groping the breasts pictured on a cardboard cutout of a woman in a sexual manner is no big thing. Drunk young guy, partying in celebration of something huge in his life, cutout of a person whose role was of evil spoiler of his plans – c’mon, we were all young, once.
And, you’re right, these people don’t get your point at all.
Had someone else done this, it would be the liberals – not us conservatives – who would have been aghast and appalled and shocked and just . . . you know . . . traumatized! . . . and they’d be talking about how this attitude can only happen when it’s tacitly allowed by the top of the organization, and so clearly McCain – he with the history of some bad things they’ll think of later that denigrated women – well, he’s clearly not fit to be a senator much less an Obama-hurting presidential candidate . . . . We’d have national seminars about it, rich Chicago mansionites would be buying up full-body posters of any woman who ever made one and making them into banners with those little “Just Say No!” red-circles-with-the-line-through-them stickers taped over the breasts, male or female (for balance) . . .
To see them all now, scornfully telling you to get a life or maybe some perspective . . .
How precious!
This was well planed and exacuted. Mr. Obama has just told the Islamic world how little respect he has for her and all women. He may as well have put a contract out on her. If by chance he actually becomes our president the first time she has to go to an Islamic country her days will be numbered. Do a little research, you’ll find out what I’m talking about.
I’m a far left-winger, and even I can’t stand most of my fellow liberals. I’m for gay marriage, really for it, and I’m for growing the welfare state, in a big way. And I’m deeply for equal pay for equal work. And yet, what a sad world it would be if we really go ahead and accept the Islamic notion that “hurt feelings” over jokes means the joker is to now censor himself or herself.
I really don’t care that the women I know make jokes about men, etc. I have a facial deformity, and yet me and my friends are free to joke about it. Again, I’m not condoning a truly hostile attack against people with birth defects. But sadly, my pals on the left, have become very boring people. This is true: I’ve known people who actually agreed with Democratic policies, like I do, who stayed Republican because they didn’t want to end up a droll and humorless as we are.
Now I’m all for a solid self-righteous rant against Wall Street Greed, (and yes, Greed should be capitalized; and please keep using the word Greed whenever possible; we are Greedy, Greedy, Greedy), but still, jokes about people’s religion, race and gender, and orientation, when intended to be harmless humor, do not need to be censored.
Now going after this aide like we are is just boooorish. Anyone going after this aide for making a perverse joke is too serious to be human, (and that attack is for real and not a joke).
It all started out with good intentions. Racist, sexist, homophobic jokes, etc., were, originally, a part of a social structure that kept oppression alive. But now I don’t honestly think, (in fact if you say that you think the following, I really believe you are a liar), that everyone who tells a politically incorrect joke is really a hate-filled person. Actually, to the extent that I have real dislike, I have it for the Pro-Censorship mullahs who believe people should be murdered whenever Muslims have “hurt feelings,” and for the identity-politics-lobbying groups who also want self-censorship to destroy comedy in this country. And plus, politically-correct people are always ruining the economic lives of jokers, and, since money is just about all Americans are into, then, you know, it’s about the same as destroying them when you ruin their careers. (Poor men rarely have their families or wives behind them when they go broke, at least not in California where I live, so ruining someone financially is often the same as ending their lives, for all practical purposes).
I am disabled, however, I would be really bored with a world in which all people in my condition were now sacred cows who could never appear as villains in movies, who could never have a joke made about them, who could never be parodied.
I don’t know about the rest of you, right and left and Muslim, but I just don’t think I’m so important that sacred laws protecting my feelings need to be erected, nor do I think people should be fired if, at a party, under the influence of alcohol, they make a harelip joke, (I am also a harelip). My friends are free to tell any joke they’re heard. When they do, I don’t lie to myself, (like most of you do), and fake like I really now believe joke tellers or pranksters are bigoted monsters.
You’re lying when you pretend that every single person who, in a fit of temper, or under the sway of a joking party, makes fun of anyone, is actually, permanently a horribly prejudiced person who must now be fired and go on an apology tour. How droll. How fake.
Fellow lefties, I agree with you on Universal Health Care, I agree with you on a woman’s right to choose, and I agree with you that Republicanism is self-serving and greedy, and I’d like to see some more liberals on the Supreme Court, but must we all become boring people too? Is that absolutely necessary? And now, when Republicans catch a Democrat being politically correct, they do the drum beat too. How dull. You people are really super dull people. I dislike you. (And that’s not a joke.)
In this way, I can see why so many of my fellow lefties are in denial about the threat to free speech posed by Islamism, because, in a way, sadly, my fellow lefties are mullah-lite. They really half-sympathize, maybe not with the Islamist’s conservatism, but rather with their seriousness. They so love seriousness. How very bland. How very dull. How boring. And so over the past eight years I’ve been embarrassed for my own progressive movement when I’d be in San Francisco and see, at anti-Bush rallies, solid contingents of folks dressed up like Hamas people. What could progressives and Hamas have in common? I was confused. Then I realized: Oh yeah, they both are addicted to the most humorless kind of seriousness, and plus they are addicted to the “hurt feelings” standard as a way of silencing people they don’t like. Maybe they are hoping to kind of harness the seriousness of Hamas and kind of redirect it to liberalism. Almost like they need “hurt feelings seriousness” lesson from the real experts in Lebanon.
And don’t get me wrong, I’m totally for some solid victim stuff. I can blame the world for my problems probably better than you can. I’m for sure not a personal responsibility freak. I’m not even sure I believe in free will, and God knows I have little faith in free markets. So I could do a little anti-colonialism blame, and God knows I blame my childhood for everything. But still, does this mean, even if I believe in a welfare state, and even if I believe in receiving some welfare myself, that I must also become a total bore? Why?
Off-color jokes are not a threat to justice and freedom and free speech, but you are, my fellow lefties. And, when you push the “hurt feelings” standard of controlling the speech of others, or pouncing on every politically-incorrect utterance, you waste valuable energy and goodwill and political capital that could be being used to get us Universal Healthcare.
A note to left-wing censorship mullahs: Spend all that anti-Bush conspiracy energy you have on getting us all universal health care. I’ve seen rallies by my fellow lefties in San Francisco for twenty years now, and, not a single rally for health care. Well, I suppose it’s easy to focus on hurt feelings and “end the war”. But do something real with all those giant rallies. Instead of censoring people and concentrating all that academic energy on looking for “subtle signs of sexism and racism,” why don’t you work on tripling the number of Section 8 vouchers and raising the amount that they pay? I’ll make you a deal, fight for funding to get all these homeless folks off the streets, then, after you get us all health care and real social services and cure the homeless problem, then, if you need to, I suppose you can set up foundations for monitoring the jokes of others to make sure there are no hurt feelings.
The comments on this article are just as revealing about how men think images of female degredation will be tolerated. Boys will be boys right? If this were my company, I can assure you that Favreau would have been fired. We don’t tolerate sexism, and it is considered a form of violence.
If Obama is serious about serving women as president, then he needs to make it known loud and clear that any treatment of his cabinet member in this manner is out of bounds and wrong.
These stupid young men will learn soon enough, but only have their careers are ruined. Otherwise, they’ll never have a clue about what violence against women is really all about. It starts with images, and it moves to real actions against real women.
Shame on the men here for their hatred of women, and shame on Obama for his silence. Guess men really can’t represent women after all.
He’s the new president’s speech writer. That’s a cardboard cutout of the new secretary of state. That Favreau has not been fired by Obama is an outrage.
I’ll care about this when feminists start caring about the much more blatant discrimination against men in our society.
When feminists stop depicting men as violent, ‘misogynistic’, incompetent, abusive and discriminatory, then they will have a right to complain.
As it is, this silly incident is nothing compared to what men get every day from the government and mass media.
One of the reasons some Middle East people are anti-American is that they see us all as sinful and crazy. If any serious thinkers over there are looking at threads like these, then aside from the photo itself, even just the comments here will give them strong evidence — that in America, this kind of behavior is considered (by men) to be ‘no big deal’. And when women protest — they receive verbal abuse for it.
nornapapuma writes: “Tony and all the fun-loving mysoginists are so classic: blame Hillary”
How easy it is for people these days to stick nasty little labels on people. A mysoginist is someone who hates women. So apparently I hate women just because I think there is an over-reaction to two morons fooling with a cardboard cut-out…that’ll be surprising news to all the women in my life.
For crying out loud that sort off sweeping accusation is akin to spoilt little brats calling their parents Nazis just because they dont get everything their own way. If the feminists can stop trying to pigeon-hole any man who disagrees even slightly with their entire agenda as mysoginistic rapists who want all women barefoot and chained to the kitchen sink they might start being taken a little more seriously.
Good effort, Ms Anna Brown — but as my Grandma might have observed — and likely did: It is enough to recognize evil, to remove oneself from any compulsion to engage it — and to seek its destruction.
The entire B Hussein bin B Hussayn bin Hussayn Muhummad Ubama circus and its every cryptofascistic support-pole, guy wire and tent peg (Carvile, Blitzer, A Cooper, David Rodham Gergen, EG) is but a manifestation of evil, must be recognized as such — and must be eradicated from the body politic.
Just as must the subversively treasonous one-party drive-by media and their every uniformly Goebbelsesque and dangerously dullard and/or psychotic posing-as-a-pressman polemicist and propagandist. (Carvile, Blitzer, A Cooper, David Rodham Gergen, EG)
Brian Richard Allen
Los Angeles – CalifUBAMAcated 90028
Reference 43. Anna: “… I would just like to say that this comment surprises me on a site like Pajamas Media …”
Please don’t lose sight, Ms Brown, that the mobbed-up Marxist murtadd Muslim’s mob (Brownshirts) are out in force and patrol (especially) every leaning-to-conservative and/or Constitutionalist site and, prepared to pounce like Carviles on pieces — and regardless of their veracity — that, like yours, appear to shine a light on their pathetic poor patron and/or upon his pack: — Reich Ministers and Gestapo included.
Brian Richard Allen
Los Angeles – CalifUBAMAcated 90028
Tony, here’s what you said that in my eyes makes you a woman-hater:
“Sadly the feminist harpies live in Victimland and not the real world so they have to invent their grieviences.”
Sorry, Tony, but the Real World is Victimland for many women.
Since the Iraq war started in March, 2003, there have been 4,209 U.S. soldiers killed.
Since the Iraq war started in March, 2003, there have been 8,050 U.S. women killed by their male partners.
EVERY YEAR: 2 Million to 4 MILLION women in the U.S. are assaulted by their male partners
Tell me Tony, what is your non-misogynist take on these Victimland statistics? I want to hear something thoughtful out of you. Don’t disappoint me.
Female,
I don’t think anyone is disputing that women aren’t victims of crime. I’m certainly not going to defend a position I have never taken……the figures you quote from lorieaslin (post no 67) make absolutely appalling reading.
However, there is a group of women, generally from the left, whom I believe – and I believe this sincerely – utterly trivialise the real crimes committed against women by their responses to even the most inoccuous actions of any man. And I believe this issue over the cardboard cut-out of Hillary is just such a trivialisation and it is against these women whom I directed my comments.
You look at what is happening to women in the Congo and around Africa and you look at young Islamic girls being stoned to death because they were victims of rape……..and then you realise that the issue that stirs the “feminists” into action is an issue that even Hillary herself dismissed as inconsequential. That makes it very hard to take them seriously. These women are professional victims and they want all women to live in perpetual victimhood to satisfy their own decrepid little man-hating ideology. Real victims of real crimes don’t mean anything to these people.
Mel C. Thompson –
Good post. Democrats can do some really great things like healthcare reform just as long as they don’t get focused on the trivial PC witchunts and piss their mandate for real change away.
The great danger for modern Democrats losing public backing has always been three-fold:
1. First, the ironclad belief that government can solve all problems and nothing need be said about personal responsibility.
2. Second, a belief that courts and the laws they create or affirm are all we need at home or abroad. Somehow, as they fetishize “Rule of Law”..they actually come to think that the American people’s Will and foreign armed and cultural resistance is irrelevant once Lawyers Opine.
3. Third, Democrats have long over-pandered to “Victims” groups…and always focused, prioritized attention, money, and appointments of the Democrat groups that screams and whines the loudest.
The various Identity groups, now united only in their hatred of Bush, are not stupid and as soon as the Election was done – immediately started up on their “Greatest Victims, Ever!!” rants aimed at seeking political favors.
The reaction of professional feminist victimologists, ignoring REAL women who DO suffer tremendous harm in other lands and at home from job losses, no health care…to speak of their unmitigated horror! shock! outrage! on the “cardboard cutout scandal” …while pointedly ignoring Muslim outrages..is both cowardly and opportunist – and as Mel Thompson said, boring predictable theater. (Witness the many posts of the humorless man-hating, Hillary! feminist Lorie Aslin – laying her case out for American women being the greatest victims, ever..)
Joining in whines of blacks that only blacks deserve appointment to be Senator – to replace departing white ones, but for sure any “black seat” must remain black to “assure justice”.
Or the craven hysterics of gay activists now bashing Mormons on “Prop 8 Fury”, but the furious little ones shy completely away from vehemently anti-gay Hispanic, black, Muslim neighborhoods and religious centers..because the little darlings might meet other furious people.
Mel Thompson has it right. Obama and the Democrat Party can do major things to help America…or squander it with appeasing various factions of professional victims whose core beliefs were already antiquated, decrepid, and unrealistic by the early 70s.
All you females posting up your stats on female victims just goes to show your misandrist thinking in ignoring the violent crime stats of male victims in your sexists one-sided attitudes towards violence: its only important when females are the victims.
I bet you will find many more male victims of murder. But, who would care about that? Male victims? Who cares?! Look at MEEEEE! I have a vagina and am more important than you mere men.
I agree with the author–to a point. I think she slips into the feminist trap of the slippery slope, likening boorish behavior with violence against women. The mockery inherent in such paper fondling is intended to be just that. Or considering the repulsiveness with which most conservative men (along with apparently Bill) greet the idea of Hillary as an example of a woman, it could be taken as a backhanded compliment to Hillary. This is typical behavior of liberals: the women set themselves up for disrespect (provacative dress, promiscuity, abortion at request) and the men treat them in kind. That’s one of the main differences between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives respect women.
Sgt Ted 125…YES! I completely agree. And my agreement is not in conflict with my post #65. There is NO ONE more dangerous or vile for decent men to have to deal with than a woman who manipulates and escalates situations, because she instinctively knows that she can nearly always be seen as the victim.
Men: RUN, don’t walk, from ANY relationship with women who use victimhood as a way of dealing with anything in their lives, because if that’s their perception of themselves, sooner or later YOU will be the victim. You cannot afford to keep on being the gentleman (or even “the normal person”) when she keeps escalating, because eventually she’ll be coming at you with a screwdriver and you’ll still be standing there “trying not to hit the girl”.
Our adult son could tell horror stories (that include physical damage to both him and his children) and we would confirm them.
Looks like even my beloved PJM is not free from feminist harangues..
Excellent article. You wrote a rational and balanced challenge to anti-female bigotry. Well done.
The author is 100% correct in her statements. Those of you who see nothing wrong with this are either in complete denial or need to educate yourself a little more. The sexism in this country has become so pervasive and so ingrained in society that it absolutely disgusts me. These are not high school boys or college boys. These are supposed to be professionals, grown men. The only thing good to come out of this and this whole fiasco of an election year is that it opened the eyes of many of us who had somehow been fooled into believing that the sexism and misogyny in this country were somehow becoming a thing of the past. In fact, the problem is as bad as it’s ever been, if not worse. Wake Up People!!!
To a few bloggers, most or all of whom were men, who noted an apparent lack of concern or recognition of violence against men, I would say:
1. Nowhere in my piece did I suggest that men are not also the victims of violence, nor that anyone should turn a blind eye to such violence. However my piece had a particular focus which wasn’t global in nature.
2. While it is true that men are also victims of violence, the fact is that according to the Department of Justice and the FBI: a) The number of women killed by “intimates” far exceeds the number of men killed by “intimates”, and b) In recent years, the trend of women being murdered by “intimates” has gone up, while the trend of men being murdered by “intimates” has gone down. Similarly with sexual abuse, a far greater number of women and girls will be abused in her lifetime (some estimates place the number as high as 1 our of 3 girls by the time they reach the age of 18) as compared to men, though there certainly is a percentage of boys who are sexually abused. No one should ever be a victim of such abuse. However, as per my first point, this is one piece that focused on a particular issue.
Men are second-class citizens in the USA and most Western democracies. They are routinely discriminated against in the courts, vilified by the media, and subjected to false charges of rape (which are as damaging as real rape for the victim).
The real sexism in this thread is the outrage over a tiny, meaningless incident, when men face worse things every day of their lives.
I understand Anna’s motivation in trying to clarify in post 131…but I sure wish she hadn’t gone to the statistics. It is completely irrelevant what the comparative numbers are. I’m sorry to have to say it that bluntly, but I will NOT be reduced to claiming that something vicious or bad does not qualify for attention or recognition until the right number of individuals in the group in question have been affected by it.
Unfortunately, “victim groups” are driving most of public policy today and it’s getting old.
My post in 127 was not a response to the article, but to post 125. I understand the men’s reactions to the article and simply wanted to express that.
I agree with Sheila at #130 that sexism seems not to have gone away but become more embedded in our culture. If electing Obama was meant to solve the racism problem, then elect a woman as next President. (A certain Alaskan governor comes to mind.)
Ann
I think my post #131 was, in part, making the point you are, which is that any form of exploitation or violence from one person to another is horrible. That said, I simply pointed out that my piece had a focus, as all writing does (or should), and that was about Favreau, sexism, double-standards, etc. I made my case toward that end. The subject matter was not about sex abuse, in general, or homocide, in general, or homocide among intimates, in general. Any of those would likely make interesting pieces in and of their own right. But that was not what my piece is about.
As for “victim groups” driving public policy, I can’t speak to that offhand but would interested to hear more specifics of how you define “victim groups”, how they are driving public policy and why, if that’s true, it is wrong or bad. I’m not making a case one way or another, just responding to your comment which I found provocative.
Actually a better example might be some women at a party dressing up a smiling Obama effigy with a chef’s hat, a shoeshine kit … and taking smiling pictures with him.
Think they’d keep their jobs as speechwriters for the President of the US?
Anna, just a couple of thoughts re “victim groups” driving public policy:
1. Nonsmokers’ claims about secondhand smoke that end up forcing smokers outdoors or underground. (Note: I’ve never smoked, but I have personally observed and talked with convenience store clerks in Minnesota standing outside in 20 below zero weather to get their cigarette break in.) My question here is: if the product is so horribly dangerous, why isn’t it banned? I’ve never seen examples of nonsmokers’ groups demanding that production cease. They just keep demanding regulations (down to the local level) and taxation that punish the consumer of a legal product.
2. Illegal immigrants (and their advocates) using unique situations as “proof” that illegal immigrants aren’t receiving adequate health care. So now our hospitals are required to provide care without checking on residence status. Then the medical services in rural areas (such as where we live) become more and more limited because hospitals simply can’t afford to stay in business under the “compassionate regulations” that dictate that they must provide care that is not billable.
Both of these simple examples illustrate “victim groups” driving public policy–via tax codes, business regulations and community activism (which is not necessarily a neutral dynamic).
Our current entertainment here in the upper midwest includes a bunch of people having a protest fast-for-a-day on behalf of 23 illegal immigrants identified at an ethanol construction site in North Dakota. The protest, as I understand it, is aimed at the unfairness of expecting people to enter the country legally. “It’s the fault of the traffickers.” So apparently these illegal immigrants are SO stupid that they were made to believe their sneaky travel and illegal documents were ok for entering the US? (That’s what their supporters ARE implying) I won’t insult them by assuming they are that dumb. Must be some kind of subtlety there that I’m completely missing. So there’s a fresh example: (1) they broke our laws (2) it’s not their fault (3) local judges and authorities are TERRIBLE for identifying them and proceeding to process them according to law (4) we are ALL terrible for expecting them to honor our laws.
THAT is a victim group driving (existing and future) public policy.
Thanks, Ann. Have you ever thought about writing? You have strong ideas that you articulate well and whether I agree or disagree with you on some or all points is moot. I respect your ability to put your ideas out there in a coherent way, devoid of needless sarcasm.
BTW, as far as the smoker issue goes, I believe some have made efforts to ban smoking entirely. I, for one, have often puzzled at why something so addictive that is a proven killer is so readily available, but then I also know that’s a slippery slope to get on. In any case, since banning cigarettes is likely an impossible challenge (given the power of the tobacco industry), it does not seem entirely unreasonable for people to do the next best thing to protect their health, which is to go the regulation route. I don’t view it through a lens of victimhood, as that overlay seems needless. It just seems reasonable that people in society take action to ensure some basic notions, such as health and safety, no?
Getting waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic here, but really appreciate you taking the time to respond via you #137 post! Meanwhile, stay warm!
The fact that assaults against women are considered crimes, even in this supposedly misogynist culture, somehow is not enough for some folk. Some people insist on rewiring the society to not only punish those who commit crimes but to wipe out any expression that may or may not indicate predisposition towards the crime.
“The society in which everybody finds his or her proper level and due recognition has yet to be designed and made to work”.
-Jacques Barzun
The fact that the emancipation which the various arch-feminists posting above require would punish, or even criminalize, symbolic acts is an exchange of one poorly reasoned emancipation for setting in chains some other well thought out freedoms.
Hmmmm, I admit, all those horrendous statistics of violence against women do kinda make me mad.
And I doubt I’ll forgive and forget since it never gets any better. And, I admit, the .00003% of women that attack men for no apparent reason doesn’t worry me quite as much, no disrespect to male VICTIMS.
OK, I’m done with this ridiculous comparison.
Anna, thank you for your gracious comments. We’re supposed to be above zero tomorrow, so that’s cheery news!!
In this photo, different people see different things.
* A ‘date rape’ scenario
* Kids behaving foolishly
* A married woman acting like a prostitute….
The common factor is that Favreau should not have posed for that picture or allowed it on his website. That’s unrealistic behavior for someone who writes speeches about ‘good judgement’ and ‘right on Day One.’ It’s causing damage wider and wider, and the only damage control is to fire the idiot.
As feminism was introduced by Marxists as an ideological weapon long time a go to subvert Western Christian society it was not so clear where it leads us
today we see that f emails are totally confused,
males are also confused but not as much just because of their gender specific hormonal regulation and still existing social legacy and better more clearer instincts
So marxists can celebrate a victory: our mothers in moral and emotional state of decline
Add to it desacralisation of basic institutions of marriage and family, general shift from religion and church towards nowhere
And here you go: males get extremely unhappy with females, who as i said are considerably more confused then males
I dont say it calls for violence but there is this tendency because balance of relationship btw sexes is not there any more.
Males lean toward violence and females lean towards promiscuity, away from family values, away from motherhood, etc
“Mr. Favreau’s conduct reveals an attitude unsuited for the position he currently holds, and if Mr. Obama is unable to bring himself to remove Favreau, that’s an even sorrier comment on Mr. Obama’s character,” right-on, Jim! Couldn’t have said it better.
“Mr. Favreau’s conduct reveals an attitude unsuited for the position he currently holds, and if Mr. Obama is unable to bring himself to remove Favreau, that’s an even sorrier comment on Mr. Obama’s character,” right-on, Jim! Couldn’t have said it better.
—————
It’s Obama’s usual policy: Rezko, Wright…. First he ignores the whole thing: denial. Only when it grows legs does he start making lame excuses, temporizing. Eventually, way too late, he throws the jerk under the bus.
Hm, maybe he’s afraid to cross Favreau. Maybe Favreau knows too much.
#143
Where do you get that Marxists introduced feminism?
Re: women and promiscuity – have you read any science on the matter at all? Nice start might be Wilson’s Sociobiology.
Actually, I think someone else above suggested that liberal women invite boorish behavior (if not assault) by indulging in promiscuous dress, etc.
How does one come up with these ideas?
marxists in Russia were forcefully introducing feminism in the 20s of 20th century
they were effectively practicing policies to destroy families besides all other very bloody things
it is very educational for all of us to learn that Switzerland-one of the most developed and prosperous country in the World did not have a voting rights for women up until 1980s
because they had to protect their small mountain country and what they had their is best described as a military democracy
So that and only that was a reason why Hitler never dared to attack them: they had every man there always ready to fight and women did not even have a vote in it
There are times and places where and when a mere survival of the nation can not be achieved without measures like military democracy kind
Imagine what will happen if USA is under WMD attack and millions die
Who will give birth to the next generation if women have to fight in a battle field?
Can we allow our Republic to be threatened by extinction of its population?
Violence damages people men and women. But man are not capable of giving birth
But women if they are morally damaged by participating in violence will not be able of child birth and upbringing
Also i doubt it very much that one can separate politics from violence in our times
hence feminism is a very confusing ideology for the society with many dangerous consequences
including the story in this article IMHO
To the women (and women-friendly men),
I loved the article. I skimmed the comments. I felt perplexed by the level of anti-female bigotry. There is a futility in arguing with misogynists and male supremacists. Their beliefs are not based on logic. They are without a sense of fair-play. I know it can be fun to toy with them. I enjoy laughing at them too. Still, activism feels even better.
So, if you have a clear head and a kind heart. If you believe in seeking civil rights for women (and girls). If you want to achieve gender equality in the political, economic and social spheres. Point your passion towards this goal. Join The New Agenda (a non-partisan group for women’s rights).
http://thenewagenda.net/blog/
Egallantry,
Beautifully said. You’re awesome.
Tony, in your last comment you started out good, but did ultimately disappoint. Here’s why: You said: “You look at what is happening to women in the Congo and around Africa and you look at young Islamic girls being stoned to death because they were victims of rape……..and then you realise that the issue that stirs the “feminists” into action is an issue that even Hillary herself dismissed as inconsequential.”
First of all, this is not THE issue that stirs women into action. Unfortunately for us women and men who care, there are many issues, this is just one shameful one. Do you see us discussing some similar photo taken at some small town college party? No. The fact that the people in the picture are the main speech writer to the new President and the image of the next Secretary of State and one of the few females at the top of our government is consequential. The world is watching them, children are watching them. If you are going to sit there and tell me that images don’t carry symbolism and don’t have power to convey meaning, then you are fooling yourself.
Also, Hillary does not speak for all women or any other large body of people who have their own minds and values. If she chooses to not address it, I respect her decision, and I hope she respects my decision to address it.
You also said: “These women are professional victims and they want all women to live in perpetual victimhood to satisfy their own decrepid little man-hating ideology. Real victims of real crimes don’t mean anything to these people.
You disappoint me there because you express bigotry and anger. I am sorry you are so angry. There are no professional victims, that is a figment of your imagination. Your statement “decrepit little man-hating ideology” is a demeaning dismissive and dehumanizing way to talk about any body. A lot of “these people” that you are so angry at are real victims of real crimes by real men who live in a society that has been ruled by men that oppress and disrespect and hurt real women.
Stop being so angry Tony.
Excellent article Ana. Unfortunately, some of the comments are exactly reflective of the attitudes and concerns you have addressed in your piece. Let me pose the following: had the cardboard figure, been of Mrs. Obama, what would the Prez elect in training say and do; and on a more personal note…what if that cardboard figure was YOUR MOTHER, YOUR SISTER, YOUR GIRLFRIEND, YOUR WIFE? As far as the women who disagree with Ana…..if you doubt the violence against women, I suggest you volunteer at your local woman’s shelter and get involved!! What can happen to one of us can happen to any of us; and none of us are immune. We have seen an effigy of Governor Palin hanging in a noose during the general; now ask yourself…had it been Senator Obama, what would have happened? All you who disagree with Ana would be throwing a fit. GROW UP!!
This is for all the misandrists here. Yes, it was very, poor taste. Yes, it was disrespectful. No, it should not be tolerated.
And yes, groping the ‘flat’ Hillary cardboard cut out is like groping the real thing
Sexism and misogyny are never funny. NEVER!!!
to any of you obama-lovefest-sheep that think this is funny . would it be funny if it were your sister or mabey your mother ,still boys being boys . what it where michelle obama think berry would still done nothing. still whell if it still is ok with you then you truly are sick
Excellent article.
I am completely disgusted with the way the scumbag media has played this off as just “boys being boys”. Apparently “boys” can get anyway with anything in this culture – they have no accountability, no responsibility.
Its “girls” who pay the price (as this article so clearly addresses)
Favreau is pushing thirty; he’s no spring chicken. He’s not even close to being a “boy”. He thinks that just because he wishes he were a child, we’re going to extend to him the privileges of a child. What an ass.
I hope the POS chokes on his binkie.
Those poor, poor stupid boys!
Did they get frostbite?
Wow another genius weighs in. I’m glad so many people think sexualizing the woman who will represent the US in foreign lands, many of whom already treat their women like cattle, is some kind of joke. If you don’t care about women couldn’t you at least care about your country?
Jarhead91
“A cardboard Geraldine Ferraro would have suffered a similar fate in the lounge of my dorm or armory.”
So, Jarhead, you’re saying that you and your buddies get hard over grandmother-aged women? Are your grandmothers safe around you and your buddies?
Or are you admitting that you and your military buddies view rape as
a weapon to put powerful women in their place? Did the military teach you to wield hate crimes? Is the rape mentality drilled into you?
Is your grandmother proud of you? Would you tell her you’d love to grope Geraldine Ferraro in effigy? Or do you only have the pebbles to say that here?
To excuse it as “just a cardboard cutout” raises the question as to why viewing child pornographic pictures is a crime since the viewer – not the original photographer – isn’t doing anything to an actual child.
===============
Good point, katiejane! Also, does anyone else remember Anderson Cooper frothing in outrage to the point spittle was flying out of his mouth on air over that Curious George tee shirt? Someone thought Obama looked like Curious George because of the hairline. Bush was compared to Curious George numerous times. No biggie, huh?
But despite it being “just a tee shirt” Anderson Cooper thought the Obama Curious George tee shirt was the most outrageous crime since Katrina. He kept sputtering “put that jerk’s name up. Let everyone know the name of this jerk.” Cooper looked 2 seconds shy of having a stroke.
I guess Jon Favreau isn’t enough of a jerk. Sexism is no issue.
And—good point, Anna!— even Campbell Brown who thought sexism a problem blamed the victim instead of calling Obama out on his sorry choice of staff. Did Favreau write that speech where Hillary was brushed off Obama’s shoulders like bird poop? Or was that Obama’s own idea? Either way, Swine Minds Think Alike, huh?
When lefties hung Sarah Palin in effigy, where was the outcry?
====
“Debbie” are you serious? Not only did the feminist blogosphere howl in outrage, but people went and protested the house where the effigy was hung, the “lefty” neighbors told them to take it down, and the mayor of the town asked them to remove the effigy, too!
Where were you? Under a rock?
“Men brush off worse than that 5 times a day, minimum.”
Oh, boo-hoo! Sounds like whining to me. Or, the typical male p!ssing contest. “My victimhood is bigger than yours!”
::snort::
“If my husband posted pictures of himself gleefully groping the image of a female colleague he would lose his job. It’s sexual harassment.”
gxm, exactly. If these paid troll Obamapologists were in anyone ELSE’s employ, they would know that.
This would be true in any corporation today and at any university or college. Everybody, male and female, must pass a sexual harassment quiz where I work and the certificate must be on file. This behavior would have Favreau in big trouble if he were my colleague. That the new administration fails to deal with the issue the way any large organization would is embarrassing to Americans and shameful.
To Anna This is very well written and I agree that the story should be kept alive in exactly this way until we see it addressed. I also posted “late” about it http://departmentofhomegirlsecurity.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/hillgropegate/, and I am glad the issue has legs – here’s why.
I woke up one morning this week to news reporters on the ground in the dark in a nearby town at the scene of a shooting. All they knew at that point was that there had been a domestic dispute. Later, the story developed that the husband of a woman who had been ordered away from the home had entered the home and shot the woman’s sister. The sisters in this story are the daughters of the blogger known as freemenow and quoted by lorieaselin.
Taking this case as an example of the kind of violence that can result from not consciously taking a stand against the “harmless” acting out that may precede it is perhaps too specific for some of the more skeptical posters here. After all, the victim and her sister, also a victim are women. There mother is a feminist of some note. All of the victims we know about are female.
But I would offer a second incident of note that springs from the same kind of disregard and disrespect for the humanity of the victims. That would be the They spring fro murders of Jennifer Hudson’s mother, brother, and seven-year-old nephew.
Can you hear me NOW, y’all? Behaviors are not isolated and do not spring up spontaneously absent a brain disorder. We see connections. Youngsters who abuse animals, if not counseled, can grow up to abuse people. And admonition can work.
Two names are on my mind: Natalie Holloway and Diana Garza. The photo of Hillary has a beer bottle. Often there is a date-rape drug in the drink. We have to wonder if that is what happened to these two promising young women.
Lastly, even if you are talking about cardboard, the phrase “hooter honking” is offensive, invasive, and disrespectful. I do think, however, that when the cardboard is backing to a photo, it is a photo and represents the subject. This was not being done to a piece of cardboard. It was being done to a representation of Hillary. Her new boss should be protecting her.
>If you want to achieve gender equality in the political, economic and social spheres.
exactly this EQUALITY is a source for the society deterioration
and for the wars of sexes and for the birth decline and for the increasing level of immorality and on and on
we are not born equal.
A man can never give birth
a woman can never be a soldier: she cant even throw a grenade or carry amunition
USA will not survive next war with WMD used on millions, possibly 100s of millions victims if we dont realize that women MUST BE TREASURED AND PROTECTED from violence both as objects of it or subjects to it
You will remember these words very soon
# 139 P. Ami
Not sure what an “arch feminist” is, but, am actually more curious about 1) your suggestion that it is somehow bad to identify and address actions that may have a strong correlation to even more escalated behavior, and 2) your last comment. If you are inclined to do so, please share more about what you’re alluding to in your final comment.
kabud #164
You clearly don’t know what you are talking about because I am a woman and I have been a soldier for this country. Women can and do make enormous contributions to our military and you would be ill served to get between us and protecting our country. I dare anyone to try to “treasure and protect me from violence” in the event this country is attacked. That man will be the first to whom violence is done.
Anna #165
An “arch” feminist is one who does a lot of yoga like me. I can’t imagine what else it could mean?
Now today here’s the Washington Post with a three=page puff piece and only two paragraphs puffing Favreau about this action. He “posed awkwardly”. A cupped hand holding an imaginary breaast is “awkwardly”?
And it doesnt’ mention his friend on the other side who was dragging her head back by the hair and pouring beer up her nose, with his tongue in her ear.
No room in three pages for the actual photo.
Anna, thanks for calling this out and hanging in this thread.
Do I think the guy should be sent to jail? No that’s silly. I think you should be carefull comparing this kind of behavior to rape or assault. It isn’t and you hurt the case of rape and assault victims when you act like this is in the same league.
Having said that, I think he is a dumb*** and should be fired like I would be in my private sector job if I did something like that with what would amount to the VP of Sales etc. Actually I would probably also get sued.
Just some questions for a Saturday morning:
Why do so many of the folks here seem to think the term feminist is a pejorative?
How is acting disrespectfully to anyone or any segment of society a fun time?
How does Kabud come to the conclusion that women can’t throw a grenade? Is it because Al Quaida, Taliban, and Hamas prefer to send their female combatants into unsuspecting crowds wearing suicide vests?
Why should an Obama speechwriter, even if he is just fabulous, get a free pass for an act that would be at least a major HR violation in any half-conscious, publicly regulated corporation?
To number 61: For all your pathetic whining about women whining, what makes you think that it’s not men manning-up that results in many of the ideological, political, and economic messes that we find ourselves in? I long for something less hard-ass in foreign and energy policy than Dick Cheney.
@ 54: “For those who mention the artifacts one finds in Jim Crow themed museums, those are remembrances of an era we have moved past but keep in mind that the crime was in doing to actual living and breathing people what it is those effigies symbolized.”
I wasn’t aware that we are now living in a world free of sexual harassment and rape. Thanks for informing me of this.
This is not ok. This is a big deal. This shows exactly what these jerks think of all women, not just one. It is time to put an end to the “boys will be boys” attitude. These men are not boys and should have known how offensive this was. Drunk is no excuse, I’m guessing that one’s next.
Favreau should hold himself to a higher standard of personal character. The President-Elect should settle for no less, because it reflects on his own character. Is this the kind of change President-elect Obama wants for America? Is this the kind of change that will become part of his legacy?
Actually, what Favreau did would be actionable in the private sector as sexual harrassment. Suppose in the workplace there’s a big photo of a woman employee and the men do things like this to the photo — while the woman is watching. That puts her on the spot, embarrasses her; everyone watches her for her reaction.
That is what has happened to Hillary here. The photo was published. Millions have seen it. Some even thought it was the real Hillary. She has been criticized for her reaction. Hillary was in no way at fault here; many campaigns distribute such cardboard replicas.
Favreau knew he was posing for a photo. In the private sector, when sued, he might try to get the ‘buddy’ who posted it to share the damage settlement. Imo in the public sector they should BOTH be fired (or all three, if the man with the beer and his tongue in her ear was not the one who posted it).
This is worse than a private sector incident. This is on the world stage. The US SECRETARY OF STATE has been dishonored. In the Middle East particularly this classes her as a prostitute. The fact that the perpetrator has not been fired or even reprimanded, says that the President dishonors her also.
This is NOT a light thing. The kids may not have known how much harm they would cause. But the harm is happening and the only way to lessen the harm is for those incompetents to be publically fired.
It’s like driving drunk. The driver may not INTEND harm, but he still has to pay the damages.
Before this piece falls off the home page, I just want to acknowledge Pajamas Media and thank them for printing it. Given the response from the msm, it was a breath of fresh air to find a media outlet willing to put my views out there and let the chips fall where they may in terms of response. So, thank you.
I hope some small shift in thinking occured for even a few bloggers. At best, blogs can present ideas and responses to those ideas in ways that cause some to rethink, re-evaluate, step back and take a fresh look, let go of stereotypes and preconceived notions. It’s hard to do and/or admit to.
I sign off feeling puzzled as to why some appear to feel the need to be so disrespectful toward a woman who is stating a view that expresses offense to the way the female gender has been treated, albeit symbolically.
There is lots of anger. Many women feel angry. Comments on this blog reveal that many men feel angry, as well. Some being sympatico with women, others appearing to have a lot of rage toward women.
I hope we can find some common ground on issues that relate to human rights, basic dignities, and how we can move forward in a society with less degradation of others. In this case I was speaking up as a woman, for women. But there are all sorts of forms of degradation and I hope in the New Year we can all find a way to be more self-aware, to try even for a moment, to stand in the other’s shoes. It’s not easy.
Thank you, again, to Pajamas Media.
170. Neil:
Last week I interviewed a retired U.S. Army sergeant. He told me that female recruits often lack the strength to pull the pin on a grenade. No women that he has trained can throw a grenade beyond its blast radius. He said that women give out during forced marches at a much higher rate than men Women cannot carry the heavy gear that men carry. Worse yet, it is unacceptable for military personnel to complain about the danger that women pose to the combat readiness of their units. According to the sergeant, the imperatives of basic military toughness and discipline have been sacrificed in the U.S. Army so that women can get through the training. This cannot fail to have a negative effect on the male troops. Sexual harassment is another difficulty that arises. Disruptions of all kinds mount on every side. In addition, women cost more than men do. Health costs for women are greater and injuries
are more frequent. In truth, the military budget is taking a colossal hit.
more here
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=19825
>166. Thia:
as a former officer
i dont trust you a bit
Kabud
I don’t believe for a second you are former military. Not a chance. Those are the most sexist and pathetic excuses to keep women out of the military I have ever heard. The most common type of grenade is the Fragmentation Grenade which weighs 14 oz and needs to be thrown a minimum of 15 meters (the blast radius)and has a killing radius of 5 meters. The qualification is to throw it 35 meters. Anyone can do that. Try it if you don’t believe me. I can pull the pin on them with two fingers so you are making that up. It isn’t relevant because women aren’t allowed in combat unless they stumble upon it but for training purposes, those are the parameters.
I’m not going to address your health cost argument except to say that it is stupid. Women are already being covered by health care in the military because dependents are covered and who do you think all those fine male soldiers are married to?
As to your sexual harassment argument… If that were a problem, and I’m not conceding that it is, it would be the harasser that has a problem and needs to get out of the military and not the harassee.
For the record, I don’t believe you were an officer in anything but your own dreams and I don’t trust you either. Crawl back under your rock. Bye bye!
Also for the record…I never experienced any sexual harassment in the military. I was treated like exactly what I was, a fellow soldier, no more no less.
Go Thia!!!
Kabud, go home.
And Anna, your last comment, especially, “I hope we can find some common ground on issues that relate to human rights, basic dignities, and how we can move forward in a society with less degradation of others. In this case I was speaking up as a woman, for women. But there are all sorts of forms of degradation and I hope in the New Year we can all find a way to be more self-aware, to try even for a moment, to stand in the other’s shoes. It’s not easy.” really hit the spot.
Thank you!
“Harpies in victimland”? I always wonder why people with such strong opinions choose to conceal their names.
Obviously, if the slur were directed at a racial minority, he would be out of work. That’s just reality, pal.
It also seems that some feel this particular child has a god-given right to the job.
I wonder why.
If this was a Republican about to join a Republican administration, he would’ve been skewered alive. Democrats get away with anything and everything. Their middle name initials are D.S. for Double Standards. Everyone knows it, including them.
I don’t care what party it is. It’s disgusting.
Anna, you are absolutely right. I was particularly offended by Carville’s response on Blitzer’s segment – it was appalling for him to suggest that women concerned about the cutout need mental health care. I heard him say it and I couldn’t believe it. I think all of the idiots on CNN need to read some Mary Daly on patriarchy. Our culture is permeated with a permissive attitude towards violence against women. Every day a woman is abused simply because of a man’s whim, appetite, or irrational anger. Favreau lampooned it when he groped a cutout while holding the head of the image and his buddy tipped the beer to the mouth of the image. Is it really that different from violent pornographic images that serial killers use to build their fantasies before torturing and killing? Favreau may never commit a crime, but he participated in the disrespect towards women that is the foundation of every violent act against a woman based on her gender. And our President Elect has demonstrated that he does not care. It’s not about being a Democrat – it’s much bigger. It’s about how our culture sees women.
Thank you, Pajamas Media.
kabud,
I spent 24 years in the Army and was a Basic Training Drill Sergeant for two and a Drill Sergeant Instructor for one. I trained males and females and can tell you with full conviction that you are full of crap!
Men and women must complete the same training to graduate basic. That includes all the marches where all trainees wear the same equipment regardless of sex. The only difference is the PT test where the standard for women is lower than that for men because of physiological differences and musculature.
Of the hundreds I trained, I never had a trainee of any sex who had a problem pulling a grenade pin or throwing the grenade.
As someone who served as a senior NCO in the first Gulf War, your contention that women pose a threat to combat readiness is just absurd and unfounded.
As far as health care, you may be right, after all women have to bring ALL the people into the world, that can get expensive!
That “sergeant” you supposedly interviewed must have some serious issues with women because everything he told you is a blatant lie.
Anna, you helped me with some straight talk (posts) during the election. This article is amazing and I want to help. Women are beaten and murdered and it is considered a local domestic story. This can’t go on. Woman-baiting like the facebook cutout can not be laughed away. I am staring with the men in my family and no longer will let snide comments slide. I am angry and I want to change the way this issue is regarded. Again Anna, thanks for the straight talk before and carry on!
This is the fallout one can expect with the dumbing down of America. When Jackasses like Obama and Favreau are not publicly incarcerated for their actions, our youth’s standards continue to decline. Where do we draw the line and start holding these disgusting people accountable for their actions and stop making up excusses for them? When do we say enough is enough? A large portion of our youth no longer know the difference between right and wrong.
Antifish-thanks for the military info back-up!
You rock!