Gowdy: ‘Impossible to Conceive’ Holder Not Aware of Gunwalker
Congressman Trey Gowdy (R-SC) told PJMedia last week that it is possible Attorney General Eric Holder wasn’t aware of Operation Fast and Furious, but:
As things started to go south, I think it’s impossible to conceive he wasn’t briefed in on it.
Gowdy, who aggressively questioned ATF Special Agent William Newell at a hearing of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform last month, takes issue with whether the investigation was ever going to work in the first place:
I’m not sure I know any more than I did before the hearing; in some ways I know less.
I still have a lot of buddies in law enforcement and they’ve never heard of these investigative techniques, and they ignored all the ones I’m familiar with.
Gowdy contended in the hearing that Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) should have interrogated the first straw purchaser they knew for a fact had sold guns to the cartels. He repeated that sentiment:
When the first gun was recovered in Mexico they should have been pulling people in.
One to question was perhaps Uriel Patino, whom the ATF knew had purchased more than 700 guns illegally. USA Today is reporting that 157 are known to have fallen into the hands of the brutal Sinaloa cartel.
When a gun dealer asked the ATF for guidance when Patino placed a special order for 20 weapons of which the dealer only had four in stock, he was told:
“Our guidance is that we would like you to go through with Mr. Patino’s request and order the additional firearms,” ATF Supervisor David Voth wrote the dealer in an Aug. 25 e-mail.
Even though agents knew then that guns allegedly purchased by Patino had been showing up at crime scenes in Mexico and the U.S.A., Patino was allowed to walk away that day.
He was finally arrested in January. When asked if ATF should have pulled Patino in much sooner, Gowdy said:
You’re asking the same question I asked.
It seems obvious to Gowdy that the traditional technique of offering a deal to Patino to avoid jail time could have been used to infiltrate any trafficking networks which existed.
Gowdy also noted that if the ATF was actually after the cartels, people should have been charged for using a firearm in commission of a federal drug felony. The straw buying charges would have likely netted the buyers only probation time, but drug charges would have meant prison time — and there are laws on the books which would have allowed the buyers to be so charged. Gowdy pointed out that Mexico was unlikely to extradite anyone over a probationary offense, but drug charges are different.
“If we didn’t have a debt crisis in this country this would be getting a lot more attention than it is. There’s no way this turns out well for the administration. I just can’t imagine anyone dumb enough to think you could keep this a secret.”
Exactly. And what’s worse, this administration is making the usual mistake of trying to cover up a botched operation rather than just coming out and admitting that it was a mistake in the first place. Now you have a scandal that’s shaping up to be another Watergate. Only this one is worse because an American was actually killed as a result of it. At this rate, the investigation will start to gather more steam during the presidential season next year. Obama will eventually throw Holder under the bus. I just wonder if Holder will then rat on Obama. How much you want to make a bet that Holder is implicated in this and then, after Obama LOSES the election in 2012, Obama, just before he leaves office, decides to pardon Holder. After all, Holder does know a lot about pardons.
I disagree.
If we didn’t have a sold-out completely partisan mainstream media in the country carrying water for the Administration – this would be getting a lot more attention than it is. If we didn’t have one network and an internet not beholden to the Democrats, none of us would have ever heard about this debacle.
If the mainstream media wasn’t so reflexively anti-gun and pro-Obama, this investigation would be much farther along.
It is not just the main stream press. I find it very curious that Fox news has had very little coverage of this scandal. Could it be that the ending of the “War” against Fox by this administration had some conditions?
Which is why they want “Net Neutrality” and “Fairness Doctrine” so badly they’re salivating.
Bingo. If this had been done by a Republican administration, the impeachment would already be history and the trial would be well underway. Resignations of numerous administration officials would be old news.
Holdergate.
So it don’ slam as you leave.
This is intentional and exactly the kind of malfeasance, treachery and law breaking that the Dems must be brought to justice for all to see.
This cannot be covered over or a few phantoms indicted to cover up for Holder and Obama. It has to go to the top person who was in charge to warn politicians of both parties that what they do will be accounted for.
Why can’t Mexican and US relatives of victims sue in civil court?
Hah! Brian Terry’s parents tried exactly this, only to be told that they “didn’t have standing as victims.”
http://tinyurl.com/3et5aa6
It’ll never happen until after the purge of DC. We have got to get the bases loaded, as it were. I don’t want partisan hacks of either form. I want to see honest persons elected to serve We The People who are willing to read the law and follow it. Not very many of those in this crew.
“I want to know the day when U.S. law enforcement knew, or should have known, that this had gotten out of control.”
Jeez, really? In order to make that statement you’d have to believe that the intentions were good to begin with. I think the congressman is being a bit naive here.
Congressman Trey Gowdy (R-SC) is very naive indeed.
“Fast and Furious” and similar operations are disinformation exercises designed to buy with the blood of law enforcement officers and innocent civilians a small-arms treaty with which to eviscerate the second amendment. In the current erroneous state of the law, treaty obligations trump the Bill of Rights.
The congressman is ignorant of KGB disinformation tactics; Obama is not.
Bingo. This isn’t a problem of something getting “out of control”.
It never should have even been considered in the first place. Such an operation (you’ll note I did NOT call it an “investigation”) could never have served any legitimate purpose.
But Obama can’t issue a Mexican pardon… and the incoming President can make it clear to Obama that if he pardons Holder, then the US won’t fight an extradition request from Mexico for either of them.
When a narcissist is defeated they will attempt to destroy what they can no longer control. It will not just be Holder who might be pardoned. Let me see; there is Gitmo and numerous other individuals who are in custody and enemies of our country.
You are whistling past the graveyard.
By failing and refusing to investigate and impeach Obama, RINOs have conceded him another term, which will be the death of the Republic.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
I believe this was out of control from day one. If we cannot accept Paul’s observation we cannot find the answer.
No it was always in control.
It was an operation designed to “prove” that Mexican gangs were acquiring and using weapons from American dealers. So they provided the guns – Pretty simple.
The objective was to justify further eroding the 2nd Amendment rights of American citizens.
What’s it called again when someone within the government supply international drug trafficors with “Vietnam era rockets” to overthrow our government or the government of another country (Mexico) during a democratic election. Obama doctrine killed tally: 300+ and 2 US agents, besting Janet Reno’s record of 83 men, women, and children at Waco. Watergate was a college prank by these standards.
Sure looks like it is time for Rep Issa to call for a Special Prosecutor with authority to call on the investigative capabilities of Treasury (Secret Service) to execute some Search Warrants at ‘Justice’, BATshitcrazyFE, and FBI.
Speaking of Rep. Issa…the Times actually is very engaged with this after all, honing right in on the real issues (from today’s NYTimes): “Representative Darrell Issa’s private and business lives often overlap, with at least some of his government actions helping make him richer.” Shoot the messenger, anyone?
First, someone in the proper position must grow a sufficient set to actually go for the gusto.
Here is how I would handle these knuckleheads. First issue a subpoena for the documents. Then when they fail to produce them, find them in contempt of congress and lock them in a dark hole. Sooner or later them will start talking when they realize that their freedoms are being taken away. Once they realize it will got easier on them when they start talking about who knew what we will get to the bottom of this. But until we get tough on these A holes they will just ignore congress. Make an example of them.
When the law ‘enforcement’ people have been turned and they are working with the criminals it’s awfully hard to get cooperation, lots of people have been murdered. How many agencies and people were working for and with the drug cartels supplying guns? We have a major coverup and maybe a couple of rogue agencies. There have been hundreds, maybe thousands of murders with these ATF guns, many people knew what was happening, when someone facilitates the commission of a felony murder they are culpable and keeping quiet with information about the situation compounds the felony. Just how far up the chain of command does this go?
it is so patently obviouse obummer and holder both knew about it and should be tried convicted and sentenced to fourty years one day and one hour at hard labor,
Ain’t nothing good gonna happen while we’ve got Tearful John the Dealmaker as Speaker.
This was never, repeat, never about discovering the means and manner of guns going to Mexico, and was from the start a program to gin-up support for, if not out-right repeal of the 2nd Amendment, major restrictions upon the ability of law-abiding Americans to “keep and bear arms”.
As we are witnessing in the UK, the police seem to have a great ability to police everything except crime. They have become expert at the use of theatre to advance the totalitarian state, whether it is the TSA (enough said), raids to enforce “pasteurization of milk” rules, or DoEd’s SWAT raids to enforce…just what exactly(?).
I’d ask when they plan to burn down the Reichstag, but that would be a “Godwin violation”, and – quite frankly – at many times it seems they’ve passed that point.
Agreed. This operation never went wrong. It never went south. Those are cover up words with the spin that this was a legitimate operation with good intentions that somehow, inexplicably, took a tragic wrong turn. That narrative is the foundation for the coverup. It will persist and the participants and their apoligists will build on it.
“Agreed. This operation never went wrong. It never went south.”
Willis, I disagree on this point. It did very well go wrong. It got exposed before it could do what it was designed to do. No one in their right mind could possibly believe it could accomplish what they are trying to say it was supposed to. Could anyone believe they could turn this many guns loose and not have anyone get hurt? Could they believe they could follow these guns all the way to the leaders of the cartels without anyone using them beforehand? The only possible conclusion I can see is it was to back up the claim that 98% of the guns used in Mexico came from the US and, by so doing, weaken or destroy the Second Amendment.
We do not know enough, except we can smell smoke and guess fire. Congressman Gowdy is on the right track, “I want to know the day when U.S. law enforcement knew, or should have known, that this had gotten out of control.”
There are parallels, and differences between this behavior and the scandal in Reagan’s term, weapons-for-hostages. Apparently both involved supplying weapons to non national militia in other nations, by order of US agency executives. The prime difference is that, in the earlier event, our national law enforcement bosses were not implicated in a felony, murder of an American sworn officer, to my knowledge.
I am not a criminal attorney and request such experts guide this unfolding national disgrace, e.g. top cop deliberately looks the other way, impedes his troops, as a many guns are given to a criminal gang, reasonably expecting they will be used in gang land murders; what culpability rides with this action?
This story appears to be much bigger than Abu Ghraib. Some tried, unsuccessfully, to tie that disaster to Sec Def Rumsfeld, but it was limited to incompetency and criminality at a low level. That does not seem to be the case here, except the commonality of incredible hubris and stupidity.
Keep shining the light.
“(ATF) should have interrogated the first straw purchaser they knew for a fact had sold guns to the cartels. He repeated that sentiment: When the first gun was recovered in Mexico they should have been pulling people in.”
Naive beyond belief. The whole point of Gunwalker was to put guns into the hands of people who would be likely to smuggle them into Mexico. BATF only approved the illegal sales to buyers who were slam dunk certain to be supplying gangsters in Mexico. If some skinhead or militia member had shown up asking for 20 M-16s, you can be confident that the BATF wouldn’t have OKed *that* sale.
Anyone who thinks Holder and obama did not know about Gunwalker deal, they are in self denial of the truth. Obama,reid,holder and biden could tell you who farted in our country. They could tell who it was, what time and which way the wind was blowing at the time of the fart. Now we know why our borders are not secure, we can not even trust our own government, both parties!
i have been sort of watching what hitlery has been up to these looong months since africa barry was annointed. i believe that the speel of lies about ’80% of guns used on the border drug wars being from the u.s.’ was wearing thin. hitlery has been working on some sort of small arms treaty at the u.n. where the participant countries all agree to confiscate all the small arms. for some reason treaties take precedent over our constitution, at least when marxists control the agenda. don’t forget, one of odumbo’s first actions was to make sure foreign cops could come into the u.s. and make arrests.
when i first saw him make that sideways comment on a t.v. news interview about having something under the radar (paraphrase) on gun control, i immediately thought about this s.a. treaty deal. he needed some stat’s to make his argument stick when he popped this signed treaty on the American people; and, the real numbers on illegal gun sales were nowhere near what his cult was selling. then he could blame the legal gun dealers and deny any knowledge, sorta like now. hey, logically speaking, if you believe anything he says, you have to believe everything he says to continue the worship.
maybe i am wrong about my theory, first time for sure, but there it is.
This ship of state is a ship of fools.
Obama ran guns to drug lords to make propaganda for the evisceration of the Second Amendment.
Either the congressmen looking at this issue don’t know anything about guns and bad guys, or they’re too naive and trusting to see what they’re seeing, or they’re afraid to say out loud what they’re seeing.
First, no Mexican bad guy needs or wants the kinds of legal guns you can readily buy at a US gunstore. Even though lots of the guns they’re picturing look black and scary, the only thing you can readily buy off the shelf at a US gun store is a semi-automatic weapon. That means you have to separately pull the trigger for each shot. Yes, a practiced shooter can fire one quite quickly, but the rate of fire doesn’t approximate that of the fully automatic weapons preferred by bad guys.
These mythical drug lords buy cocaine and heroin by the ton. The same people they buy it from can easily pitch in a case or two of military grade fully automatic weapons from Russia, China, the Middle East or any number of other sources, including stolen US military weapons, and for far less than the store price of the legal, semi-automatic version available in the US.
Since the drug runners and their muscle don’t need or want to buy sissy US legal weapons, they aren’t going to be giving strawmen wads of cash to go buy them from eeeeeeeeevul US gun stores. This was a contrived propaganda operation from the outset. I’ll guarantee that was US law enforcement money, US law enforcement “assets” doing the purchases, and the whole thing was designed to make sure that US legal gun store weapons showed up in Mexico so the Obama Junta could make propaganda use of those weapons.
Time for a special prosecutor. Holder should be pressured to resign. He is also in the process of appointing a lot of left wing zealots to positions in the Justice Department.
They don’t care about the drugs .to them It’s another goverment program. Pork spending is what is. Gun runner was about needing proof that US.guns were being used by the evil drug gangs so they could use it to justify another GUN BAN!! They were claiming that the cartells had US. guns before gun runner was even exsposed. They say gunrunner was to find cartells .that a LIE!!
When will everyone admit that our appetite for illegal drugs is a bad thing (we are not talking about 1 Budweiser on the weekend, or a glass of wine with dinner), and that our inability to get through a day without using them is an even worse thing?
Is it a good thing that there are open-air drug markets in places like Camden, New Jersey? It shows that we as a country need powerful mind-altering substances on a regular basis, and cannot handle life without them.
If we stopped using, there would be no drug cartels IMHO.