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	<title>Comments on: Government Workers Immune from Economic Realities</title>
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		<title>By: SSDD &#171; The Heat Death Hour</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/government-workers-are-immune-from-economic-realities/#comment-261387</link>
		<dc:creator>SSDD &#171; The Heat Death Hour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 May 2009 20:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/government-workers-are-immune-from-economic-realities/#comment-261387</guid>
		<description>[...]  Government workers immune for economic realities? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  Government workers immune for economic realities? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Laura Rift</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/government-workers-are-immune-from-economic-realities/#comment-111023</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura Rift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 00:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/government-workers-are-immune-from-economic-realities/#comment-111023</guid>
		<description>I agree with virtually all of the above, except for the notion that voting Republican is a good idea.

I despite socialism, public unions, etc. That said, I will not under any circumstance vote for people who believe I have the freedom to control my wallet but NOT my body.

I will NEVER vote for those who want to make abortion illegal, birth control illegal, and the ability of a woman to control her reproductive destiny illegal.

You want to see government spending brought under control? Start with being consistent. Let&#039;s end the power of public unions, but also let&#039;s control public spending by legalizing drugs and continuing to allow women to control their own reproduction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with virtually all of the above, except for the notion that voting Republican is a good idea.</p>
<p>I despite socialism, public unions, etc. That said, I will not under any circumstance vote for people who believe I have the freedom to control my wallet but NOT my body.</p>
<p>I will NEVER vote for those who want to make abortion illegal, birth control illegal, and the ability of a woman to control her reproductive destiny illegal.</p>
<p>You want to see government spending brought under control? Start with being consistent. Let&#8217;s end the power of public unions, but also let&#8217;s control public spending by legalizing drugs and continuing to allow women to control their own reproduction.</p>
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		<title>By: Normand Janelle</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/government-workers-are-immune-from-economic-realities/#comment-95214</link>
		<dc:creator>Normand Janelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/government-workers-are-immune-from-economic-realities/#comment-95214</guid>
		<description>Soon after 9/11 my city of Lewiston Maine had a referendum on limiting property taxes. Our city government was wasting enormous amounts of money on so called development projects that many voters felt benefited only well connected developers. The propaganda from local government employed scare tactics including a loss of essential services from police, fire, emergency medical education and road repair. No mention at all of the enormous amounts of non essential pork being being dispensed.  At the polls the police were basking in their newly acquired hero super hero status, (supposedly guarding the sacred shrine of democracy). Actually they looked like lazy loiterers sitting on banisters and leaning against walls. I remember exiting the polls and seeing a local news reporter asking an elderly lady if she wouldn&#039;t mind telling them how she voted. Her reply was, &quot;Well my vote is my own, but I can tell you I don&#039;t want to lose my Police Department&quot;. Unfortunatly the scare tactics worked, the City&#039;s Insiders got what they wanted, increases in taxes and business as usual.
No happy ending in sight here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Soon after 9/11 my city of Lewiston Maine had a referendum on limiting property taxes. Our city government was wasting enormous amounts of money on so called development projects that many voters felt benefited only well connected developers. The propaganda from local government employed scare tactics including a loss of essential services from police, fire, emergency medical education and road repair. No mention at all of the enormous amounts of non essential pork being being dispensed.  At the polls the police were basking in their newly acquired hero super hero status, (supposedly guarding the sacred shrine of democracy). Actually they looked like lazy loiterers sitting on banisters and leaning against walls. I remember exiting the polls and seeing a local news reporter asking an elderly lady if she wouldn&#8217;t mind telling them how she voted. Her reply was, &#8220;Well my vote is my own, but I can tell you I don&#8217;t want to lose my Police Department&#8221;. Unfortunatly the scare tactics worked, the City&#8217;s Insiders got what they wanted, increases in taxes and business as usual.<br />
No happy ending in sight here.</p>
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		<title>By: misanthropicus</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/government-workers-are-immune-from-economic-realities/#comment-94481</link>
		<dc:creator>misanthropicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 16:45:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/government-workers-are-immune-from-economic-realities/#comment-94481</guid>
		<description>RE uburoi RE : &quot;[...] My wife is currently applying for jobs with the VA, and I cannot even begin to describe the stupidity, laziness, and indifference she has encountered at all levels of the system: nobody knows anything about anything, ever; you couldn’t get a phone call returned if you were dying. I told her she’s better off in the private sector. [...]&quot;

roi ubu: having, unfortunately, to conduct some business with the Los Angeles VA hospital (not as patient, thanks god!) I was really impressed by the un-accountability and general indifference of most personnel there. This type of jobs go to people who at best are &quot;clockers&quot;, have no interest or sense of doing a job well - of course, they are also devout Democrat voters. For those who follow Los Angeles scandals, the VA hospital rates marginally better than the notorious King Drew hospital (finally, credentials yanked away), another example of gross, tenured entitlement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE uburoi RE : &#8220;[...] My wife is currently applying for jobs with the VA, and I cannot even begin to describe the stupidity, laziness, and indifference she has encountered at all levels of the system: nobody knows anything about anything, ever; you couldn’t get a phone call returned if you were dying. I told her she’s better off in the private sector. [...]&#8221;</p>
<p>roi ubu: having, unfortunately, to conduct some business with the Los Angeles VA hospital (not as patient, thanks god!) I was really impressed by the un-accountability and general indifference of most personnel there. This type of jobs go to people who at best are &#8220;clockers&#8221;, have no interest or sense of doing a job well &#8211; of course, they are also devout Democrat voters. For those who follow Los Angeles scandals, the VA hospital rates marginally better than the notorious King Drew hospital (finally, credentials yanked away), another example of gross, tenured entitlement.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry J</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/government-workers-are-immune-from-economic-realities/#comment-94129</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/government-workers-are-immune-from-economic-realities/#comment-94129</guid>
		<description>My son works for a city owned hospital. As a city employee, he doesn&#039;t have to pay Social Security taxes. That money is invested in PERA (Public Employees Retirement Association) instead of being dumped into Social Security. PERA works like a 401K in that the money is invested and belongs to the employee. It&#039;s basically a privatized retirement plan, the same kind that Democrats swear we ordinary non-government employees aren&#039;t qualified for.

Don&#039;t get me wrong, I don&#039;t want to deny public employees their PERA. I want everyone to have the opportunity to invest at least some of the money being flushed into Social Security into privately owned and controlled investments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My son works for a city owned hospital. As a city employee, he doesn&#8217;t have to pay Social Security taxes. That money is invested in PERA (Public Employees Retirement Association) instead of being dumped into Social Security. PERA works like a 401K in that the money is invested and belongs to the employee. It&#8217;s basically a privatized retirement plan, the same kind that Democrats swear we ordinary non-government employees aren&#8217;t qualified for.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I don&#8217;t want to deny public employees their PERA. I want everyone to have the opportunity to invest at least some of the money being flushed into Social Security into privately owned and controlled investments.</p>
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		<title>By: It&#8217;s tough times for us, rosy times for government workers - Orange Punch - OCRegister.com</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/government-workers-are-immune-from-economic-realities/#comment-94081</link>
		<dc:creator>It&#8217;s tough times for us, rosy times for government workers - Orange Punch - OCRegister.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 17:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/government-workers-are-immune-from-economic-realities/#comment-94081</guid>
		<description>[...] Here&#8217;s a column I wrote this week for PajamasMedia on pension-spiking and the greed of government employees (and the cravenness of politicians who put unions above the taxpayer). An excerpt: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Here&#8217;s a column I wrote this week for PajamasMedia on pension-spiking and the greed of government employees (and the cravenness of politicians who put unions above the taxpayer). An excerpt: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chief1942</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/government-workers-are-immune-from-economic-realities/#comment-93883</link>
		<dc:creator>Chief1942</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/government-workers-are-immune-from-economic-realities/#comment-93883</guid>
		<description>Thank you for the privilege of serving my fellow citizens. At some point, if it is even possible, &quot;the people&quot; need to get things back in some semblance of balance. There is no way that public servants should be in a higher social strata than those they serve. Admittedily, they are public servants and not public slaves, but the citizenry at large need to determine just what value they place on public services they want available. And they need to prioritize the importance of those services relative to each other and their value relative to their benefit. Should a firefighter be compensated to a greater degree than say a registered nurse? A police officer higher than say a teacher? A sanitation worker higher than a street maintenance employee? 

The way it is right now, the actual compensation of the public service employee has little to do with their role, but is more accurately tied to the political power of their respective union(s). 

   Mind you I am not anti-union. They certainly have their place in the larger scheme of things and came into being in response to employer power abuses. But we, those who pay the bills, have to make sure there is not too much power on either side of the equation. Unfortunately we tend to depend on those who we elect to represent our wishes, and forget that the &quot;system&quot; is so stacked that little if any true representation of &quot;the people&quot; can ever be successful.

  I along with those who saw things from my &quot;old school&quot; perspective, as regards social balance in the public employee sector, got silenced by the power of the organized labor political machine. It was an awesome thing to watch and very disappointing. I know I&#039;m going to gore someone&#039;s oxe here, but I have never seen any single politician or city administation official that could stand up to the power of the AFofL/CIO, Teamsters, IBEW, CWA, NEA, State Teacher&#039;s Association, Service Employee&#039;s International Union, etc. Not sure how we get the genie back in the bottle, but with the current state of affairs I fear we will only see further disconnect between those who serve and those served.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the privilege of serving my fellow citizens. At some point, if it is even possible, &#8220;the people&#8221; need to get things back in some semblance of balance. There is no way that public servants should be in a higher social strata than those they serve. Admittedily, they are public servants and not public slaves, but the citizenry at large need to determine just what value they place on public services they want available. And they need to prioritize the importance of those services relative to each other and their value relative to their benefit. Should a firefighter be compensated to a greater degree than say a registered nurse? A police officer higher than say a teacher? A sanitation worker higher than a street maintenance employee? </p>
<p>The way it is right now, the actual compensation of the public service employee has little to do with their role, but is more accurately tied to the political power of their respective union(s). </p>
<p>   Mind you I am not anti-union. They certainly have their place in the larger scheme of things and came into being in response to employer power abuses. But we, those who pay the bills, have to make sure there is not too much power on either side of the equation. Unfortunately we tend to depend on those who we elect to represent our wishes, and forget that the &#8220;system&#8221; is so stacked that little if any true representation of &#8220;the people&#8221; can ever be successful.</p>
<p>  I along with those who saw things from my &#8220;old school&#8221; perspective, as regards social balance in the public employee sector, got silenced by the power of the organized labor political machine. It was an awesome thing to watch and very disappointing. I know I&#8217;m going to gore someone&#8217;s oxe here, but I have never seen any single politician or city administation official that could stand up to the power of the AFofL/CIO, Teamsters, IBEW, CWA, NEA, State Teacher&#8217;s Association, Service Employee&#8217;s International Union, etc. Not sure how we get the genie back in the bottle, but with the current state of affairs I fear we will only see further disconnect between those who serve and those served.</p>
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		<title>By: Bobnormal</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/government-workers-are-immune-from-economic-realities/#comment-93861</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobnormal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 00:16:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/government-workers-are-immune-from-economic-realities/#comment-93861</guid>
		<description>Chief,God bless you I can&#039;t say it better,,,,,
Bob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chief,God bless you I can&#8217;t say it better,,,,,<br />
Bob</p>
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		<title>By: DavidN</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/government-workers-are-immune-from-economic-realities/#comment-93792</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 21:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/government-workers-are-immune-from-economic-realities/#comment-93792</guid>
		<description>Two interesting aspects of the California budget problems with regards to public employee unions are ignored in the article. One is the effect the courts have had on the situation. You&#039;d think the courts would be uninvolved in how much a labor union member is paid, and you&#039;d be wrong. About 7-8 years ago, the California Public Employees unions sued the State of California and the municipalities located in it. They claimed that basing pensions on the *base* pay of the retiree was unfair, because many union members get overtime and some get bonuses, which weren&#039;t counted. The state courts agreed, and made their ruling retroactive for several years back. State, county, and city pensions skyrocketed overnight.

Second, the unions are immensely powerful in California politics. Just after Arnold was elected governor, he announced he was going to take on the public employees. He explored several paths for this, and ultimately tried to take on the teachers&#039; union. One of the paths he explored, but eventually decided not to take, was reforming pensions for firefighters and police officers. The police and firefighters ignored the fact that they&#039;d ultimately been left alone, and participated in the campaign against Schwarzenegger&#039;s reforms, contributing money and even starring in commercials. The public employees ran commercials literally every day for just about a year, and ultimately spent $100 million defending their pension &quot;rights&quot; and were successful. Right now, Schwarzenegger&#039;s in a fight with the Democrat-controlled legislature, which is trying to balance the state&#039;s budget and make sure all of their constituents get all their boodle. The state&#039;s Republicans are strong enough to prevent passage of a budget (the Democrats have tried, twice, to get the state&#039;s Constitution amended so that they can raise taxes with the majority they have, but failed), and they&#039;re currently trying to convince everyone that a tax increase (on the evil rich, of course) is the way to go. No one&#039;s buying it, and Schwarzenegger&#039;s temporary 1% tax increase isn&#039;t very popular either. The only other solution would be a cut in pay, and that of course will never happen.

No one has pointed out, in the political sphere anyway, the conflict of interest that one of the other commenters pointed out: imagine if you got to elect *your* boss, and choose between several people who are campaigning for your vote by promising you better pay, fewer hours, and better working conditions. The company you work for doesn&#039;t have to make a profit, keep customers happy, or actually do anything successfully or competently. The people who decide how much your company gets judge everything on how much money is spent. The more money that&#039;s spent, the more the company cares about the issue, even if the money is completely ineffective. As a result, everyone in your office gets paid much more than they&#039;re worth, pensions go through the roof, and no one has any accountability or responsibility at all. Nice situation, isn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two interesting aspects of the California budget problems with regards to public employee unions are ignored in the article. One is the effect the courts have had on the situation. You&#8217;d think the courts would be uninvolved in how much a labor union member is paid, and you&#8217;d be wrong. About 7-8 years ago, the California Public Employees unions sued the State of California and the municipalities located in it. They claimed that basing pensions on the *base* pay of the retiree was unfair, because many union members get overtime and some get bonuses, which weren&#8217;t counted. The state courts agreed, and made their ruling retroactive for several years back. State, county, and city pensions skyrocketed overnight.</p>
<p>Second, the unions are immensely powerful in California politics. Just after Arnold was elected governor, he announced he was going to take on the public employees. He explored several paths for this, and ultimately tried to take on the teachers&#8217; union. One of the paths he explored, but eventually decided not to take, was reforming pensions for firefighters and police officers. The police and firefighters ignored the fact that they&#8217;d ultimately been left alone, and participated in the campaign against Schwarzenegger&#8217;s reforms, contributing money and even starring in commercials. The public employees ran commercials literally every day for just about a year, and ultimately spent $100 million defending their pension &#8220;rights&#8221; and were successful. Right now, Schwarzenegger&#8217;s in a fight with the Democrat-controlled legislature, which is trying to balance the state&#8217;s budget and make sure all of their constituents get all their boodle. The state&#8217;s Republicans are strong enough to prevent passage of a budget (the Democrats have tried, twice, to get the state&#8217;s Constitution amended so that they can raise taxes with the majority they have, but failed), and they&#8217;re currently trying to convince everyone that a tax increase (on the evil rich, of course) is the way to go. No one&#8217;s buying it, and Schwarzenegger&#8217;s temporary 1% tax increase isn&#8217;t very popular either. The only other solution would be a cut in pay, and that of course will never happen.</p>
<p>No one has pointed out, in the political sphere anyway, the conflict of interest that one of the other commenters pointed out: imagine if you got to elect *your* boss, and choose between several people who are campaigning for your vote by promising you better pay, fewer hours, and better working conditions. The company you work for doesn&#8217;t have to make a profit, keep customers happy, or actually do anything successfully or competently. The people who decide how much your company gets judge everything on how much money is spent. The more money that&#8217;s spent, the more the company cares about the issue, even if the money is completely ineffective. As a result, everyone in your office gets paid much more than they&#8217;re worth, pensions go through the roof, and no one has any accountability or responsibility at all. Nice situation, isn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/government-workers-are-immune-from-economic-realities/#comment-93764</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 20:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/government-workers-are-immune-from-economic-realities/#comment-93764</guid>
		<description>Chief 1942 - Thanks for your service and thanks for your reasonable analysis.

Just a thought for Barack, I wonder if his handlers have made him aware of the &quot;windfall profit&quot; that is being had by all these government pension payouts? He could surely attach a windfall profit tax to them and give every American a check for $1000! Socialism, oh socialism, please come wipe my arse!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chief 1942 &#8211; Thanks for your service and thanks for your reasonable analysis.</p>
<p>Just a thought for Barack, I wonder if his handlers have made him aware of the &#8220;windfall profit&#8221; that is being had by all these government pension payouts? He could surely attach a windfall profit tax to them and give every American a check for $1000! Socialism, oh socialism, please come wipe my arse!</p>
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