Government Shouldn’t Prevent Construction of Ground Zero Mosque
It was a hot, muggy June afternoon when a state GOP functionary sat down with us to explain a fairly basic premise for our 2010 election strategy. “You only have six things you need to talk about,” he said. “The first three are jobs and the last three are the Obama deficit.”
They struck me as wise words, and he had been passing them on to candidates for various offices far and wide. New York still holds a generous advantage for Democrats in the generic ballot and our sizable swing vote population is distrustful of Republicans on the best of days. But in 2010 the internal polling was showing a promising shift. Those critical moderate and independent voters were out of work in alarming proportions. They were forgetting their worries about Christian conservatives with their hard-right agenda and seemed to be coming around to the idea that the Democrats couldn’t manage the finances of a lemonade stand, say nothing of the national public purse.
But the dog days of summer seem to have a hypnotic effect on politicians. When you’re settling down in a soft, feathery, but flammable bed of electoral possibilities, why not bust open a few cans of gasoline? Rather than sticking to “the economy, stupid,” the ensuing weeks saw our Republican hopefuls dive into the type of subjects that sent the election train hurtling back toward Crazytown. We had battles brewing over gay marriage in California, repealing the 14th amendment, and perhaps the most provocative of all — the Park 51 project, popularly known as the Ground Zero mosque in New York City.
In a way it’s hard to blame these excitable boys and girls for jumping on this particular bandwagon. Even in a state famous for opposing anti-Muslim backlash following 9/11 and largely welcoming a trial for the attackers inside their own borders, people seemed opposed to the construction of the mosque. A recent Siena poll showed more than 60% wishing the mosque builders to take their business elsewhere.
But the politicians in question, particularly New York’s GOP gubernatorial hopefuls, seemed to differ on exactly how they proposed to stop the effort and what legal grounds might be used to manage the feat. Rick Lazio expressed personal opposition and questioned where the funding was coming from. At the opposite end of the spectrum, Carl Paladino claimed that, if elected, he would use the power of eminent domain to seize the grounds and prevent construction. (On exactly what constitutional footing he would manage this was not specified.)
I suggest to Mr Shaw that he read today’s post at the SULTAN KNISH blog.
”The Muslim Hijacking of Ground Zero.” by Daniel Greenfield.
http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/
I’m not going to comment further, Mr Greenfield has said perfectly what I believe far more eloquently than I can myself. I’ll just say that allowing the building of a mosque at Ground Zero is just plain STUPID.
It’s not just about seizing territory, though that is part of it. It’s also about hijacking something more vital, identity…A hijacking not of planes, but of memory. And their targets are no longer just 3,000 people– but us all.
Ground Zero is not only the central point of the Muslim massacre of 3000 people. It is also the central point of the memory of that massacre. …Which is exactly why Muslims are determined to hijack it for their own purposes…
There is no significant Muslim population in Downtown Manhattan that needs to have its own 100 million dollar community center. The only reason for building something on this scale, is because of its proximity to Ground Zero.
The Great Lie told and retold over and over again for the last 9 years, is that Islam was not responsible for 9/11. …The Ground Zero mosque is that lie made flesh. …It is that revisionist history given physical form, turned into brick and mortar, steel and cement, raised up to the sky, to look down mockingly on the Ground Zero construction site itself, and the people who come there to reflect and remember.
…a calculated act of cultural brutality, disguised with a fake smile. Its message is that this is not our land anymore. That these are not our memories anymore. That these too have been hijacked by the murderers.
Thank You! Yes, it’s about identity: Was it in the ’60′s, the immigrant but drivers told Great Britain: “No. We’re going to wear our turbans; we’re not going to wear the bus driver’s uniform—it’s against our religion—our turbans maintain our identity; and if we are not allowed to do so, Sikh so-and-so here, is going to immolate himself.”; and, the Crown backed down.
60 years later, members of those groups are telling any who will listen that, they are now planning on removing the flag of England and for the same reason—simple identity; the flag of England is a repulsive reminder against their own identity.
But, for the rule of law for which it flies against those types who would wish to remove it (And, Sharia law is an oxymoron, and is rule of law not even so much as martial law—which is no law but military rule, only; with this further exception that, Sharia is a rule as every criminal organisation has a ruler almost exactly as their warlord leader began theirs.) the flag of England SHOULD be a flag of repulsion to shelter decency—yes, it’s all about identity, . . . many things serve naught but identity, wedding rings also, are to stand a bar, . . .
Further, if the English would in anywise wish the Union Jack to remain, their courts need to review and reverse the bus-driver uniform identity case, . . .
BINGO! Couldn’t have said it better.
This author is doing his best Winston Smith (George Orwell, “1984″) impression,
seeing “five” fingers instead of four.
Beware the brainwashed.
It is not about the existing Muslim population in Manhattan – that is point 1. And then point 2 is that ONCE a mosque IS constructed, it serves as a rallying cry for them to immigrate there and populate the community and the general area that would the region served by that particular mosque. This is the way it has worked in many places – plenty of examples in Britain. Those idiots who voted to approve have sold us out.
This is not about individual muslims, this is about Islamic culture that historically builds large and significant mosques on top of their conquests. Where ever you go in the Muslim world significant mosques are built on significant sites. Istanbul, Damascus, cairo the grand mosques are built on top of the most significant Christian churches. jerusalem, the Golden mosque was built on top of the site of the Jewish temple, Mecca the black stone or karba was a place of worship before Islam existed. In Hebron a mosque was built on the tomb of the patriachs(Abraham, Isaac and Jacob), on Josephs tomb, samuels tomb, rachels tomb, in Iraq the ancient hebrew writings have been removed from Daniels Tomb and the site converted into a mosque????? Are you progressive americans that unworldly, that blind that you cant see the sigificance of the mosque the name of the organisation (Cordoba)the conquest of Christian and Jewish Spain by Islam (andalusia). Symbolism is paramount in Islam, this mosque is without a doubt a symbol of Islams victory over the US. The upshot of the WTC attacks has been the economic waste of USA treasure and lives in its futile wars against an enemy it is too scared to name.
Exactly right; frequently on my trip to Israel, the Jewish guide pointed out sites where conquering Moslems had built mosques over holy sites, including Christian churches. That is how they know where many ancient churches and holy sites were.
I visited Istanbul many years ago. Our tour included what is now the Saint Sophia Museum. It was the earliest of Istanbul’s churches, constructed during the reign of the Emperor Constantinus in basilica form, dedicated in the year 360. It served as the Cathedral of Constantinople until 1453; when Constantinople was conquered by the Ottoman Turks who converted it into a mosque which lasted until 1935; when it opened as a museum. A more complete pronouncement of abominable blasphemy would be hard to find.
I am Roman Catholic; and, although the visit was stimulating in many ways; the most pronounced emotion I had while there was disgust. I felt to my very core the evil present there. It was one of the most uncomfortable days of my life; being in a place of such palpable darkness. I was there for only a day’s tour while on a cruise won through business achievement. I would never have paid for a trip there; and, I would never go back. Yet, somehow I’m wiser for having seen it first hand; and, so I count it as a valuable experience.
One thing is certain; we must prevent this darkness from dwelling among us, no matter what it calls itself.
Our soldiers fought and died for our right to be mindlessly intolerant. And yet, our military leaders have allowed Muslims to infiltrate the Pentagon, where 184 people died on Sept. 11, 2001.
At the memorial service at the Pentagon, exactly one month after the attack, Army Chaplain Abdul-Rasheed Muhammad read a verse from the Koran. To this day, Muslims dare to practice their religion inside the building.
That’s right people. Imagine this. The Muslims have a mosque at the Pentagon
Before you reach an orgasm with this “gotcha” catch phrase, “Muslims have a mosque at the Pentagon,” I suggest you read this.
http://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/what-mosque-inside-pentagon.html
Some would call it “an alternate viewpoint.” I call it yet another refutation of the frivolous arguments put forth by the Left in order to “prove” their precious intellectual superiority as purveyors of “truth” twisted and contextually massaged to prove that the rest of us, that would be the increasing number of “right wing, Caucasian bigots,” including those “blind, disillusioned black sheep,” are a bunch of Loons.
Aside from the military’s continued denial regarding Islam as anything, please, other than the militant, violent, intolerant, misogynistic ideology it is and probably under orders form their illustrious Commander in Chief, God help us, Obama, they have, for as long as I can remember, been accommodating to the religious beliefs of ALL the troops in their command. Yes…….unbelievably, that would include catholic, Jew, Hindu, Muslim, etc……….in the interest of diversity don’t you know.
If you sincerely believe, as you are elsewhere encouraged to do, that the Ground Zero structure will be anything but a Mosque, welcoming with open arms members of all faiths or beliefs as equals, I’ve got a piece of land in Afghanistan you might be interested in……….cheap.
Great obfuscation. “House of worship.” “House of worship.” He repeats in hopes of lulling his audience into accepting his description as other than the politically correct, disingenuous tripe it is. This is not a house of worship. This is not a cultural center. It is not a bridge between Christianity and Islam. It is a victory dance. It does follow in a long line of celebratory Mosque building in conquered terrain. While Christians are at war with the courts over a cross that was nothing more than a monument to dead veterans, we have all kinds of apologists telling us that a Madrasah in New York, though distasteful, is necessary to preserve our beloved Constitution.
Islam defecates on our Constitution, then rubs our noses in it, and I’ve heard on to many authors like you prescribing we lump it. It’s a great little strategy they have going, no? Some Islamic radicals kill three thousand people and tear two monumental buildings from the New York skyline, and then another comes along and offers to build a cultural center. How quaint. “But they aren’t those Muslims,” you decry.
Has the Imam who proposes building this Mosque publically condemned the 9-11 hijackers? Has he condemned radical Islam? I for one have had it. I think we need a million man march and a sit-in on the construction site. I’m not going to advocate the Federal Government get involved, but if the state would have decided against it, then that would have been perfectly legal. As it is, New York can burden the consequences of its actions. I will not feel pity for that city when the inevitable next attack comes.
Let’s see. Why won’t the Cordoba initiative be honest about their funding? Why does Imam Rauf say one thing to western media and another thing altogether to Arabic media? Why does Imam Rauf associate with groups tied to IHH and the Muslim Brotherhood? Why do they name it after the Muslim conquest of Iberia? Why do they seek to dedicate it on September 11?
We are not obligated to give these stealth Jihadists the very liberties that are anathema to them; that they want to obliterate.
And the fact is that Islam as a religion unequivically preaches war against, and subjugation of, the infidel. Throughout history Muslims have built grand mosques on the site of victorious battles and conquered churches. How is this any different? Is Jazz Shaw (“former” RINO my arse) familiar with Mohammads Ghazawa and the concept of Dhimmah? If so, how can he defend this mosque?
Jazz Shaw seeks to extend rights to those who would destroy us. John Locke said “I have no reason to suppose that he who would take away my liberty would not, when he had me in his power, take away everything else. And, therefore, it is lawful for me to treat him as one who has put himself into a state of war with me- i.e., kill him if I can; for to that hazard does he justly expose himself whoever introduces a state of war, and is aggressor in it. ”
I don’t think we should be killing anyone; but that principle stands. We are not obligated to extend the rights of liberty to those who seek to snuff it out.
What Muslim nation gives any sort of equal rights to non-Muslims? Even Morocco, that paragon of Islamic “liberalism”, recently saw 7,000 religious leaders (no small number) signing a document that called for the expulsion of Christians, for the “crime” or prosalytization, something those same leaders called “religious terrorism” and “moral rape”.
There is no reciprocity in Islam. One can make the argument that “we are better than that”, and therefore must extend rights to those who would never do the same to us. That is bogus. Reciprocity is the very basis of coexistence. By allowing concessions with nothing in return, we only will encourage the Shariah supremacists and will only end up giving more concessions, and more concessions, while getting nothing in return.
The Copts will not stop being brutalized by the State in Egypt. The Kurds will not stop getting killed by the Turks. The Chaldeans and Assyrians will not be left alone by the Iraqi Muslims. The Ba’hai will not be allowed to live in peace in Iran. The Hindus and Sikhs will continue to be cleansed from Afghanistan, Pakistan and even parts of India. Malaysian and Indonesian Muslims will continue to agitate for the murder of CHristians, and to burn down churches to stop them from being built. The Maldives will continue to ban non-Muslims from obtaining citizenship. The UAE will continue to arrest foreigners for being in public without a veil, or for showing public displays of affection. KSA will continue to forbid non-Muslims from visiting Mecca on pain of imprisonment and even death. Muslims the world over will continue to focus their ire on so called “Islamophobes” who point out the vileness in the Qur’an and Sunnah and the Muslims who act on that vileness, rather than the actual vileness itself and those Muslims who choose to emulate it.
We are not obligated for an instant to extend American liberties or any liberties to those who follow a creed that is anathema to them.
Well said, Frank! When will western dhimmis realize that giving in to islamists only earns their contempt and makes it harder to regain lost ground in the future.
Frank nailed it. The very name “Cordoba Initiative” implies that it is dedicated to the reconquest of the former Ottoman Empire and enlivening further conquests around the world. In light of that, their lack of transparency is disturbing.
Thanks, Mr. Shaw, for coming out of the closet, and showing us all your true conciliatory, submissive, dhimmified character. Time to add you to the list of PJ bloggers not to read.
To Bloomberg and his cronies this is all about money. Money, nothing else.. Sell their soul for a dollar, sell it for a dime, doesn’t matter.
What union is going to step forward and build this mosque?
By not giving landmark status to the building, the Cardoba mosque was given a green light.
In answer to #2…yes, Americans are that unworldly. Until it hits us square in the face, we do not pay attention..always afraid to offend you know.
Islam isn’t a religion, it is an ideology of conquest and slavery. How can we possibly protect Islam as a religion? Islam commands murder and allows slavery, spousal abuse, honour killings and rape. If we protect a religion, we protect the whole thing; we don’t pick and choose which aspects of the religion to protect and which not because that sends a mixed message and opens the door for slow concessions to allow their ways to be exempt from our laws.
It says right in the Qur’an that not a single aspect of Islam can be altered or changed in any way. The concept of Taysir and Taqiyya say that Muslims can live under non-Muslim law so long as they are working to make Shariah supreme, bit by bit, and that it’s not a sin to agree to only some of Shariah being allow and other bits being banned, SO LONG AS said Muslims are constantly working to institute more and more Shariah, not stopping until it is fully accepted.
Islam has no place being protected as a religion. Islam should be treated as a political ideology akin to communism and nazism.
yes you stupid stupid man they were these muslims
(obviously not the “same” ones as those scumbags died along with the innocent stewardesses who’s throats they slit before flying into the building in a ritual suicide murder).
…………..what other ones are you referring too?
they read the same quaran and push the same intolerant ideology.
if it walks like a duck it probably sh!ts like one too.
damn there are a lot of stupid people out there.
Yes Mr. Shaw – the terrorists were real muslims!!! What does it take for people like you to see what is happening!!!! Dmgold has it in one!!
Jazz Shaw the information at the end of your article says you are a “heretic” (fair enough, each to his own etc. etc.) and a “moderate” What I’d like to know is, what is a moderate person, who clearly can string coherent sentences together, doing engaging with the most immoderate, draconian, tunnel visioned cult? What can you possibly hope to convince them (and the rest of us here) of? Or is this article a “set the cat among the pigeons” stunt?
What I can’t get my head around is that you KNOW the shariah supporting people behind the construction of the mosque despise people like you and your culture in exactly the same way as they despise the rest of us. So, is there some sort of masochism in the mix, or is it sheer arrogance on your part?
Before the terrorist attack in my country on 7/7, when one of my relatives narrowly escaped the carnage – I could have taken Islam/Muslims or left them alone , as long as they left me alone to do my thing. As a result of nearly losing somebody dear to me – I started to really delve into Islam and especially political Islam (which I found is inseparable from Islam the religion). I’ve been learning more and more since. For instance – it’s becoming increasingly difficult for me to separate the Muslims from Islam. Sure, there are, to all intents and purposes “moderates” – but the litmus test for me would be – whose side would these moderates be on when the “critical mass” of Islam is reached in the West – and it’s coming…. I wouldn’t like to wait until then to decide which Muslims are moderates and which aren’t.
It’s mind boggling that all it boils down to, with you – is that people who are genuinely concerned about the rise of Islamism in your democratic country are simply asking the government to step in and prevent the building of a place of worship. Might I suggest you read Bill Warner’s articles about Political Islam? Or read some of Robert Spencer’s books? Then you would (or would you, but it’s worth a try anyway) start to understand that mosques are not just places of worship to Islamists – they are political centres to spread Islamist supremacy.
Why are these moronic essays such as Mr. Shaw’s still being published at our websites?
There may be moderate Muslims, although non observant is correct, but there is no moderate Islam and no such thing as a moderate Muhammad. Muhammad was a wicked man who commands all those who follow him by his teachings in the Koran and by his acts and deeds in the Haidiths and Sira to commit evil against all non believers.
All those who follow Muhammad who himself according to Islamic texts, was a murderer, rapist, maimed people, blinded people, beheaded people and on and on, are commanded to whenever possible wage jihad by either converting, killing, subjugating or enslaving all non believers and imposing Sharia law upon them.
That mosque should not only not be allowed to be built at Ground Zero but also should not be allowed to be built in my neighborhood or anywhere else in United States. Islam is at war with us. Anybody caught advocating Muhammad’s commands to wage jihad and impose Sharia law should be deported immediately. All Muslim immigration needs to be stopped without any exception.
Mr. Shaw go back to your strip joint.
I disagree wholeheartedly with Mr. Shaw’s premise, but I also believe that we are not liberals who deny members of our own group to hold and express divergent viewpoints. I don’t want the mosque there. Hell, I would just as soon see every mosque in this country removed until such time as churches and synagogues were allowed in Saudi. However, our Constitution allows for freedom of religion for all. No exceptions were written into the Constitution. I do not know on what grounds they can be denied the right to build. I hope one can be found, but we are a country of laws, despite the actions of our current president, and as such we must respect those laws and their basis in the Constitution. That includes free speech for Mr. Shaw.
Muhammad had very little to do with religion once he became successful. Islamic texts are over 90% political. If your problem has to do with the law then change the law. Our laws were not meant for us to commit suicide nor did our Founders ever consider Muhammad’s wicked ideology and his fictive deity Allah when they spoke of our God given rights which under Islam we have none. If you think they did then you are a fool.
It depends on what the definition of ‘religion’ is.
Does this ring a bell? – Watch out for “wolves in sheep’s clothing.”
Should the KKK be allowed to call itself a religion?
“the voices of New York’s large and mostly moderate Muslim community..”
Are these people part of the world-wide gang of Muslims that are so moderate and so peaceful that they have yet to speak out against the 911 attacks..? Who would have ever thought that..?
New York City, like any city or town in America, using multitudes of zoning codes could easily deny the Muslims permits and permissions to build this monumental in-your-face insult to the human race..
They have chosen not to. By their expressed will or by their silence New Yorkers have proven once again that they do not choke on anything; including a third terrorist attack on their city by the exact same radical terrorist organization sickos!
please look at the KORAN.only their god is right and king. women are only worth 1/2 of men. all people who do not believe in Islam should be killed.
Shaw doesn’t get it. Strip clubs are far more indicative of American freedom than putting up a memorial to the scum who attacked America on 9-11. What will he advocate next? Putting a Nazi shrine in front of Arlington National Cemetery?
The Mosque is nothing more than Islamic one-ups-manship, and as another poster noted, a tribute to the Islamic attackers. No, Mr. Shaw, we do not and should not have to be tolerant of our enemies, and Islam is one of those enemies.
As for Republican taking on too much, we will see in November, but when the majority of the people agree with the causes, that is part of the overall message that Washington D.C. needs an enema – badly – because right now it is totally constipated.
No, *these* are different Muslims…*these* Muslims just want to construct a “victory monument” to what *those* Muslims did on 9/11/01…that is, murder 3000 or so innocents, in case you’ve forgotten, Mr. Shaw. *These* Muslims merely want to dance on those 3000 graves to the greater glory is Islam and Jihad. And that’s okay with you as long as none of the mosque builders were directly involved in planning and carrying out the 9/11 attacks? Apparently it is.
When you evaluate the issue as one involving just a ‘house of worship’, many of the real issues, in the opinion of the author, are relegated to the insignificant category. But that ignores Islam as a political system that when practiced in its most fundamental (and correct)form advocates the subjugation or conversion of ALL non-Muslims. Cordoba’s importance then becomes apparent as a launching point for the advancement of the Islamic ideology.
Just how big are the author’s horseblinders?!
To say, “Yes, there were Muslims involved in the 9/11 attacks. But were they these Muslims?” is
explicitly groping for excuses,
desperately seeking refuge from reality,
while writing with words wrapped in amateurish pseudo-legalism.
Perhaps the author thinks writing such apologias will ensure his head will be last on the end of a sword.
Wrong thinking.
Further to my earlier comments, in the words of the Cordoba imam:
” This phrase is inaccurate. Religious dialogue as customarily understood is a set of events with discussions in large hotels that result in nothing. Religions do not dialogue and dialogue is not present in the attitudes of the followers, regardless of being Muslim or Christian. The image of Muslims in the West is complex which needs to be remedied.
…
Throughout my discussions with contemporary Muslim theologians, it is clear an Islamic state can be established in more than just a single form or mold. It can be established through a kingdom or a democracy. The important issue is to establish the general fundamentals of Sharia that are required to govern. It is known that there are sets of standards that are accepted by [Muslim] scholars to organize the relationships between government and the governed. [emphasis added]
…
New laws were permitted after the death of Muhammad, so long of course that these laws do not contradict the Quran or the Deeds of Muhammad … so they create institutions that assure no conflicts with Sharia.”
What else do we need to know about the purpose of Cordoba?
“Yes, there were Muslims involved in the 9/11 attacks. But were they these Muslims? There have been imams in the background getting up to who knows what business. But are any of the individuals involved with the construction of this facility charged with a crime? If the answers to these questions are no, it seems that the courts will have a tough row to hoe in satisfying the public complaint.”
You are assisting taquia.
The problem with trying to seperate ‘these’ Muslims from ‘those’ Muslims is that ALL Muslims revere ONE Muslim in particular – Muhammed.
The objective truth about Muhammed is that far from being a ‘holy prophet’, Muhammed was a sick and evil sociopath driven by an infinite thirst for power, asymptotic material greed and unquenchable sexual lust, topped off with a sadistic dose of savage bloodlust.
‘These’ Muslims will deny these facts and truths about Muhammed out of fear, because they are subjugated, brainwashed and terrorized by Islam. They must submit.
‘Those’ Muslims will embrace these facts and truths about Muhammed and use them as the inspiration for their ISLAMIC JIHAD, their holy war against anyone and anything anywhere which is not Islamic.
How many times have we been shocked to find ‘these’ Muslims, after rediscovering their ‘holy prophet’ and their ‘religion’, sudden become ‘those’ Muslims??
The problem is not with the mosque – the mosque is just a building.
The problem is not with ‘these’ or ‘those’ Muslims – they are just people subjugated and enslaved by a totalitarian ideology.
The problem, which everone knows in the pit of their stomach but is afraid to admit, is with Muhammeds death cult – ISLAM.
Islam is what causes the terror, death and suffering in the ‘infidel’ world.
Islam is what causes the sumission and subjugation of 1.2 billion ‘Muslims’.
The problem is Islam, and for the good of humanity Islam must be destroyed. Never in history has a single ideology held so much of humanity – ALL OF HUMANITY – under the weight of its oppression and terror.
The ideological destruction of Islam is the single greatest human rights imperative in the history of humanity – freeing 5 billion ‘infidels’ from the threat of ISLAMIC JIHAD, and liberating 1.2 billion Muslims from Muhammeds oppressive tyranny.
ISLAMO DELENDE EST!! – ISLAM MUST BE DESTROYED!!
~ The Infidel Alliance
The arguement could be applied to Pearl Harbor – it was Japanese who attacked us there but was it these Japanese? Or the sinking of the Lusistania Germans sank her, but was it these Germans?
Allowing the building of the Mosque, even allowing the discussion to go this far, even in New York is just short of some kind of crazy. That 40% of New Yorkers do not oppose it, is actually frightening.. the question arises were these people living in NYC on 9/11? Has the demographics of the city changed so dramatically in just 9 years? Or are they inflicted with some form of mass dementia?
The government shall neither promote, nor prohibit a religion true – howsomever that in no wise requires a government to allow them to build a monument to an atrocity that they perpetuated upon us.
This argument is old: we all agree they are legally allowed to do it. The question is the motives of people who would do this in the face of opposition, basically just to prove their superiority. This is islam – not the phony, moderate face they try to show. I’d suggest “jazz” change his name to “middle of the road” or maybe “adult contemporary”.
“Yes, there were Muslims involved in the 9/11 attacks. But were they these Muslims?”
Sure, men have abused women but were they these men? Sure, white men held and profited from slaves but were they these white men? Sure, white men came over in ships and conquered America and wiped out the natives but were they these white men.
You see? Neither time nor factual innocence absolves my guilt, how does it work here?
Un-American to stop this construction? There are instances of, how shall we say, irregularities with Americanism every day in the USA. Like with the current president’s policies, presumably the country can absorb things of that nature and survive. As for preventing the mosque? We have to be perfect now? Irregular? Pay back’s a bitch, brother.
I have been wondering what the reaction would be to offering a different site well removed from ground zero. My thinking is that it would be rejected or strongly resisted proving that the mosque should not be built. The motive for building the mosque is the problem more than the mosque, itself. We are having a lot of problems with illegal immigration in the physical sense. We do not need to welcome the immigration of foreign thought that militates against our peace and tranquility.
The mosque is wrong.
FIRST – There is no such thing as “all Muslims…” but there is a profound asymmetry in our dealings with that putative class.
Remember, in World War 2 there were countless brave and loyal Americans of German, Italian and Japanese descent. They all bent over backwards to show that they were Americans first. None of them demanded special treatment or whined about “fear of backlash…”
In fact, in the face of internment of their families, the young men of the 442nd Regimental Combat Team, mainly of Japanese- Americans, “became the most decorated unit in U.S. military history for its size and length of service, with its component 100th Infantry Battalion earning the nickname â€The Purple Heart Brigade’.”
Contrast that with today’s Muslims. No effort to show they are loyal Americans. Rather they exploit liberal guilt to demand proof that they are loved.
SECOND – Taste matters. Even if the proposed mosque is technically legal, think about how callous and cruel the supporters are.
We are all supposed to be sensitive to “Muslim sensitivities.” In wake of protests, the “Mohammed cartoons” were self-censored. Rioting followed a false (!) Newsweek story about a flushed Koran.
When nuns opened a convent near Auschwitz, Pope John Paul II had the grace and decency to move it when Jewish groups protested.
So Imam, you demand punctilious exercise of your legal rights to build that mosque? Even though you now know, explicitly, how insulting it is? Then understand this–we will in turn take it as a deliberate provocation and grave offense.
If you still insist on proceeding, then we will in turn exercise every right and freedom we have, not only despite so-called “Muslim sensitivities” but deliberately aimed to inflame such primitive responses. You only get civility and decency when you offer it.
No, we will not resort to head-hacking or car-burning like the “youths” of Paris. But we will find the most potent symbolism and exploit it to the fullest limits of our American heritage of individual freedoms. No more slack, no special consideration of your own sensibilities. You, imam, will mark yourself as a provocateur, and you will be provoked back.
THIRD – Did someone mention “constitutional footing” for use of eminent domain? After Kelo, we can drive a truck, sideways, through that hole. For example, if someone tried to build a Bible store next to a mosque, liberals on the zoning board would find a thousand excuses to forbid it. Another thousand pretexts would arise from public safety, over the well-known inability of Muslims to control their violent passions. So don’t tell me we can’t do the same.
Can we please stop to put up this straw man? I dont know anybody who demands of the government to stop the mosque and violate the 1st Amendment. This is the job of the citizen through boycotts and protests. Let every company that partakes in the effort to build this thing know that they will be shunned by our society.
You know, I’m all for Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, and Equality for all. That’s why, I say, let the Muslims begin construction of their Super WalMart of mosques right in lower Manhattan.
…Just as soon as they let Catholics build a Cathedral and Jews build a Synagogue in Mecca, and not a frakking second before.
To paraphrase George Orwell – There are some ideas so foolish, only an itellectual could believe them.
You, Jazz Shaw are a fool.
This is about conquest, nothing less. The hoisting of your standard on the field of battle after you have defeated your enemy.
I can’t believe this argument is taking place; This is the same ‘religion’ that was being sworn to and summoned, by the pilots of the airplanes that struck the towers.
This is the ‘religion’ that started this entire war, and continues to be at war with the West.
This ‘religion’ is a battle philosophy, and originates with it’s founder, a war lord that was a soldier all his life.
This is not any religion, but a disease, a cancer, that has to be eradicated before it infects the entire planet with it’s ignorance and malevolence.
All you people out there rationalizing this mosque really don’t get it.
Daisy Khan going about New York as front person for radical husband Feisal (“oh, shari’a and the Declaration of Independence aren’t that far apart”) Rauf is playing New York games.
Besides which, how many mosques/Islamic centers litter Manhattan already ?
The financial center that lower Manhattan is is the perfect place to unleash this aspect of jihad, one bin Laden has yakked about incessantly and why the WTC has been a target, twice. Financial ruination of the west.
Anybody who doesn’t understand Islam enough to understand that the structure is, essentially, a Victory Mosque as well as a permanent Muslim waqf is brain dead.
What we do know is that in about a year, all over the Middle East, al-Qaeda videos will have photo-shopped “strong horse” posters and CDs of the ruins of 9/11 in the shadow of a towering mosque, with the accustomed boilerplate about how Atta et al. knocked down the looming towers in order to have Islam’s shrine rise up in their place.
Is the Imam of this mosque, along with the rest of the local Muslim community, its supporters, and Mayor Bloomberg willing to put up the funds to rebuild St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, which once stood at Ground Zero? Until they are willing to put their money where their mouth is in the supposed interest of “religious tolerance” and “bridge-building” then they have zero credibility on this issue, as does any other idiot and coward who defends this atrocity.
Bloomberg can spout his inane drivel about religious freedom till he’s blue in the face but so far as I can see the only people who have been denied their religious freedom in this case are the displaced parishioners of St. Nicholas Church who after almost a decade have no place to worship.
All we need do is ask the question “what would the terrorists who created that crater in Manhattan think of this mosque going up?” We know what the answer is, and that is all the reason necessary to stop this.
I agree with the author for the most part. There is no legal way to stop them from building this mosque. The constitution does specifically forbid CONGRESS from passing any law respective of religion, but it doesn’t forbid the state from doing so, nor the county, nor the city.
They could have declared it a historic landmark and that would have shut the door for the mosque
Bloomberg and cronies decided not to, that left it open for the Cordoba to become a reality.
So…look to Bloomberg clearing the way for muslims that killed 3000 Americans to move into and operate a den there, 2 blocks from Ground Zero. A muslim is a muslim is a muslim. And Bloomberg is a ditz.
Exactly right; on my trip to Israel, our Jewish guide frequently pointed out where conquering Moslems had destroyed holy sites and Christian churches, building mosques in their place. That is how we know the sites of many ancient sites.
Here’s an article on how ‘compassionate’ muslims can be;
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/08/taliban_executes_8_western_med.html
What can be said, this Mosque if it is built will be a monument to the victory that the muslim word had over the United States on 9/11. I think perhaps unless the folks that plan on building it will be importing all there own workers, work visas, ? who will agree to build it ? will the IBEW work there, will the teamsters ? Who will work on that construction site ?
I do not think it will be built, or at least never finished…..
That’s this one old woman’s opinion
the leftist control the labour unions and they the left have been with the muslims ..the fact that obama is a muslim will mean that the unions will be all for it, at least at the leadership end of things.
remember the unions fighting during the clean up of ground zero, between the police and the firefighters …an ugly scene.
if this thing is stopped it will be the citizens of NYC that do it.
oh…then Obama would not have a place to worship..
Seriously if IBEW etc go there..all of America needs to step up and realize what the hell is going on and they are a part of it, adding to it.. The press is not raising the hell that one would expect from such a transgression.
I am amazed that most of the people I have spoken with don’t have the slightest idea what is going on with the Cordoba mosquem what it represents etc..oh, they’ve heard a little on the news..nothing more. Totally appalling
We live in a very red state and the people think nothing goes wrong here..and tune things out. A lot don’t even vote. They know who is going to win…in the last import elections a short time ago, 16% of reg voters even bother to venture out. apathy will get us all killed
Its now almost 9 years after 9/11 and the majority of Americans have no idea what Islam teaches.
There may be moderate Muslims, they are really non observant Muslims, but there is no such thing as moderate Islam nor is their, according to the Islamic texts, no such thing as a moderate Muhammad which is more to the point.
Muhammad is the founder of this evil ideology. I say evil because he commands ALL his followers to commit acts of evil against all of those who are non believers. It is not a secret, it is there for all the world to see in the Koran and the Islamic texts that describe his wicked sayings, acts and deeds, namely the Hadiths and Sira. He murdered people, he beheaded people, he maimed and blinded people, he raped and enslaved people, and on and on.
Muhammad commands all his followers to whenever possible, wage jihad by converting, killing, subjugating or enslaving all non believers and imposing Sharia law upon them.
We should never let Muhammad’s followers build a mosque at Ground Zero to celebrate their successful act of jihad nor should we let them build that mosque in my neighborhood nor anywhere else in the United States. Any Muslim caught advocating jihad or Sharia law should be immediately deported permanently. All Muslim immigration needs to be halted with no exceptions. If laws need to be changed then change them.
If we do not do this we will never be safe. Those who follow Muhammad do not belong in the West because they are at war with us and seek to destroy us. We should never allow them to build any place to facilitate their eternal war against us. That would be suicidal. No more mosques.
A Muslim who begs to differ:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/06/AR2010080603006.html
Once again the author as many have done equates Islam with ANY other religion in the world. It is not a religion. It is a societal/governmental control system. It injects itself into every facet of a Muslim’s life from birth to death. It advocates the over throwing of any government that is not Muslim and encourages any kind of deceit to advance it’s goals. Sharia law is an abomination to any reasonable thinking people and it comes before all governmental laws. For anyone to say that this scourge on mankind is a religion is absurd and it should not evoke any sympathy from fair minded people.
Islam is not merely a religion but an imperialistic, supremacist, totalitarian ideology which is completely intolerant of other religions. The Mosque at Ground Zero is a symbol of Islamic triumph. Jazz Shaw is naive.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/07/911-hero-family-member-ground-zero-mosque-is-the-second-mosque-being-built-on-a-911-site-.html
Using this line of thinking, major cities would not have the right to ban,….let’s say, Pit Bulls. After all, it wasn’t my dog that mangled the poor little child. Muslims belong, at a minimum, several notches lower than my dog. He doesn’t dance in the street when Americans are butchered.
I can’t think of a better recruiting tool than a Mosque at the site where two passenger planes loaded with men women and children were flown into buildings with thousands of people working. Even the law does not justify stupidity.
In the end if the Muslims have their way, it will be on the backs of liberal idiots like you and Bloomberg who seem incapable of recognizing even the simplest and at the same time most grevious of abominations for what it is.
mr shaw: i see your argument here and I agree with it. I was born and raised a muslim. I for one do not want to see that mosque built. although under the law they have every right to build it, but it is f….ing offensive. and as for strip joints around ground zero, why not? i rather see beautiful naked women rather than an opressive religion.
To miriam rove,
I sincerely would like to know; how any truly moral person can know the truth of Islam and remain a Muslim. WHY would you?
The best way to stop this victory shine from being built is to enlist the help of the builders. Nothing get built in NYC with out the unions. The same union workers who rushed to ground zero to dig out the bodies of their friends and neighbours. If they try to build this with out union support it will never get built.
If you go that route then the intellectually dishonest apologists like the author become back ground noise drowned out by the sounds of people who aren’t aiding the enemy.
“You can talk about the questionable background of the imam leading the project”
this is EXACTLY what we should be talking about. feisal abdul rauf is using our constitutional right of freedom of religion to subvert our constitutional right of separation of church and state.
all you have to do is read his articles here – http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/feisal_abdul_rauf/
to see what a danger he is to our right of free speech (which he thinks is ok as long as you don’t “insult” anyone) and our right of separation of church and state…i quote “religion is the solution to conflict” “But we believe that if the highest ethics of religion are mixed with politics rooted in justice, the combination can be positively powerful and extremely effective.” ” incorporation of Sharia law into British law will not be the last utterance in favor of Islamic law. Nor should it be. The addition of Sharia law to “the law of the land”, in this case British law, complements, rather than undermines, existing legal frameworks”
not to mention his connections to radical islamist – http://www.islamicpluralism.org/1609/raufs-radicals
in the words of karl popper – “Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.”
Dear hello,
Thank you – ditto -and thank you.
Why would you assume we wouldn’t be calling for “pitchforks and torches”? It is a disgrace to the Americans who lost their lives in the 9/11 terrorist attacks for the terrorists to get away with doing a victory dance on their graves, while half-asleep Americans sit on their hands or, worse, become apologists to this out of fear. The good news is, not every American is stupid. Or afraid. Good luck getting this thing built. I don’t see it happening.
Here is an absolutely outstanding answer from Dr. Leonard Peikoff to those who somehow think we have to let the Islamists build their mosque.
http://www.peikoff.com/2010/06/28/what-do-you-think-of-the-plan-for-a-mosque-in-new-york-city-near-ground-zero-isnt-it-private-property-and-therefore-protected-by-individual-rights/
He very eloquently shows that putting this mosque up is comparable to letting the Japanese erect a Shinto temple at Pearl Harbor after their attack in 1941, and concludes: if that mosque is built, the government should blow it up, as they would any propaganda structure of a declared enemy in a time of war.
My summary.
The erection of a Victory Mosque at Ground Zero is an act of war.
‘Phrases leap to mind which include, “shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.”’
The phrase is “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”
Despite the endless lies told by liberal judges, this is not a bar on states or localities passing laws respecting an establishment of religion, and they’re perfectly free to do so (as long as their state constitutions allow it).
While some preach freedom of religion, it seems to me that the muslim group wanting to build the mosque would, out of simple respect for the families of 9/11, opt to build it at another location.
However, while our politically correct politicans, so called journalist, etc support the move to build it at ground zero, I also believe much more investigation into who is supplying the money is needed.
(Anyone read the report that the taliban killed 10 foreign aid workers yesterday. According to the report, the aid workers were preaching christianity….so much for the peace loving religion of islam)
Wow~! Hasn’t anyone snapped to the fact that there were almost no human remains recovered from the twin towers site? Most of the crushed and incinerated victim’s remains were scooped up and hauled off to the landfill as dust and ash. The twin tower location should be landscaped over, converted into a cemetery and 3,000 head stones erected to honor those victims. My G-d! Have we turned completely into a nation of bowing and scraping serfs, afraid to say the name of those which might be offended?
Send the Islimes packing, they have no business intruding on our grief.
Jazz, if it were “these” muslims most of them would be dead, so your question ranks among all time duds, even as a rhetorical gimmick.
As there do seem to be interesting issues of past statements, connections, and finance, I would suggest another place for this mega-mosque, maybe City Hall.
And who knows, after construction may we hope for a brave soul to fly an airplane into it.
Don’t try so hard to be tolerant. And don’t be so free with the loss and emotions of literally thousands in the aftermath of 9/11, it’s a very cheap ego trip you’re treating yourself to.
You didn’t happen to lose a mother or father, wife or child that day, did you?
There are moderate Muslims, but there is no moderate Islam. This is a religion with delusions of grandeur and dominance over every other religion. Yes, the terrorists who committed the acts of 9/11/01 were just as Muslim as the KKK leaders were nominally Christian. The difference, is that most other churches condemned their acts unconditionally and taught their congregations that this was unholy evil. Most Muslim clerics remained shockingly silent. Most who condemned it did so while equivocating. Many, including those in Gaza, celebrated in the streets.
Imam Rauf is free to build a mosque near the WTC site. He won’t have much of a regular congregation. And furthermore, he’d better tread with care. People will report what he says in his sermons and teachings. Heaven help him if people really do figure out what Islam teaches.
We’re still free enough to protest what he teaches in front of his Mosque. I’ll be out there proselytizing every other religion, from Scientology to the Hari Krishnas. Every. Day. Of. The. Year. They deserve nothing less.
When 9/11 was going down the Muslim street was celebrating. When the Mosque is finished the Muslim street will celebrate again. The Muslim street celebrates when Muslims kill Muslims to kill infidels–apparently there is collateral damage exemption for killing Muslims when killing non-Muslims. Pointing out that Muslim triumphalism behavior pattern is considered bigotry by our elite social betters who prefer tokens over triumphs, enamored with the ethical mind set that violence is never the answer–except, paradoxically, it’s the answer for the A holes; our elite does like to jump through Muslim hoops so as not to get killed over a cartoon. Truly, the sword is mightier than the pen. Maybe the American street should celebrate for a change too, starting with the principle of reciprocity. Voting with arson and iconic AK47s, the Muslim street would never allow a token church or synagogue in Mecca.
I say let them build the Mosque. Then use eminent domain to take it and turn it into a museum of Islamic terrorism.
As long as we’re on the subject of religious freedom, why not build a stepped pyramid with a temple & alter on top & celebrate the ancient Aztec religion with human sacrifice? Is Islam any better than the Aztec religion?
FWIW, Fareed Zakaria seems to believe that the Feds are actually funding the construction of mosques:
“Were this mosque being built in a foreign city, chances are that the U.S. government would be funding it.”
the way white women have sold out white men for the last 40 years…………..
and today are actually men haters…………..
maybe they need some islam to set them straight
And this has precisely _what_ to do with anything? First of all, “white women” – as a group – haven’t and aren’t what you say. Secondly, for the sins of a few you wish to enslave the whole? Finally, we can take care of our own, thank you very much.
thanks for deleting my post….. now there is no chance I will follow pjtv-
and roger simon is still an arrogant jerk…….
pjtv is trying to ride on the coat tails of the conservative revival….
ain’t gonna happen…..
you are phony
Jazz, I am hoping that you would develop to a greater extent of what Geert Wilders was getting at regarding the line between Islam and Islamism, is quite fuzzy.
Otherwise, all you have accomplished is yet another example of selective vision.
Jazz Shaw – a moderate – has proven my theory that anyone calling themselves a ‘moderate’ is just another term for ‘progressive’. Maybe – just maybe – a little slower.
I fail to understand how – knowing how islam (I will NEVER cap islam nor muslim again) erects their monuments on the ruins of their victories. This has been pointed out over and over – with examples from posters before myself – and writers such as Jazz Shaw know this yet fail to understand the significance – or simply dismiss it as unimportant.
No sir – it is not insignificant – it is not unimportant. The act of building that mosque there is an act of victory and of war – it’s too bad you do not understand that.
Moderate – what does that mean?
If this Inman really wanted to build bridges between Muslims and other faith. He would respect the wishes of the people not to build the Mosque so close to where the Twin Towers had been. Please do not play stupid, we all know where the money is coming from to build this mosque and why they want to build it on that spot. Apparently America has really become the whore of the world if we let this building be built. This so called mosque will bring nothing but trouble and death and separate the muslims from the rest of the American citizens. This Inman is nothing short of a liar about the peace he says this mosque will bring, it will be used to train their followers to bring down the American way of life. If he wants sharia law, then go back to Saudi Arabia where the money is coming from to build this house of abomination. I know I am not sensitive about Islam, like they want us to believe. Unfortunately I have read their quran and have read about Mohammad not only was he a child molester, but suffered from seizers and preached hate not not peace and forgiveness.
The government cannot stop this mosque. If those that would build this mosque were truly interested in unity and going forth with good faith they would build it somewhere else. I hope not one single construction worker will sign on to help build this insult and slap in the face. We all know why they want it in this particular place and as Americans we need to rise up and say no way.
What makes American Muslims so peaceful? They are outnumbered…that’s all. But, that is quickly changing.
The term Islam means “submission to Allah”. This god, Allah, is not the same as the G-d of Ahbraham, Issac, and Jacob.
Islam teachers speak of “Sharia” in American Mosques just like they do everywhere else in the world. They must– it is part of the doctrine.
Sharia is more about governing–not religion. So it’s not just about freedom of religion any more.
Many Americans are too stupid to see it…
It’s time to think outside the box. Don’t depend on the govt to stop this mosque. Don’t think the courts will help either. Especially the Supreme Court or the 9th Circuit. It’s time to think outside the box. Why hasn’t anyone suggested consecrating the grounds in porcine renderings? Wouldn’t that just about change the whole plot? And how about we start calling people like the doctors that were just killed in Afghanistan, how about we start calling them Righteous Martyrs for a Compassionate World? How about some reverse psychology? Talking is nice and we can vent and let each other know our thoughts. Voting might work, but only the ones with the big money and big sponsors get to win. Thomas Jefferson once said, “God forbid this country go 20 years without a revolution.” He also said that the people have the right to stand up to and defend this country and themselves against tyranny. Islam is far more than tyranny and it is time to defend this country and get real.
A concrete structure cannot “build bridges” unless it is literally that is exactly what it is. The Muslim patrons of this community center want to have a place where they do not HAVE to mingle with non-Muslims. They WANT to be segregated. Whomever agrees the mosque and community center should be built is advocating segregation. The Muslim community anywhere and everywhere will do whatever they have to do to not assimilate or integrate with the non-Muslims because it is forbidden and beneath their dignity. The construction of this center and mosque achieve exactly the opposite what the practitioners of al-taquiyya say it will achieve – they lie and deceive because it is sanctioned in Islam to do so as long as it is for the growth/ betterment /furtherance of Islam.
In this case, the government does have a need to prevent this abomination from being built.
1) it’s an instrument of perversion of US law that’s taking place there, as these kids are building this thing as both a means to claim victory over the US, to impose Islam on the US, and as a means to recruit and train enemies of the state.
2) the US government is responsible (through mr. Bloomberg’s duplicity) in enabling it, it’s therefore their duty to undo the damage they’ve done.
3) it’s being funded and run by foreigners intent on the destruction of the USA, therefore it’s a national security issue.
Were this a private enterprise by a group of people trying to set up a house of worship for their community, noone would mind (and these people wouldn’t want to build it there anyway). But it’s not.
And of course a church that used to stand almost next door to it has for the last 8 years been denied a permit to rebuild, while this mosque was pushed through in just months. Where’s the justice in that?
GO IMAM, GO!
There is an old Persian saying: In everything that happens there is always something good. What is good about the offensive and controversial Ground Zero mosque project is that it’s raising public awareness about stealth jihadism: the non-violent Moslem enemy of freedom within. The heedless, headstrong Imam Rauf is doing a world of damage to his Islamist cause and I pray that he continue the madness to the bitter end.
Google ApolloSpeaks at Townhall.com and read my controversial piece: Islam, Sufism and the Ground Zero Mosque. I approach this issue from Abdul Rauf’s jihadi Sufism.
Good point!
I also see the good in dark moments.
Muslims still celebrate their hollow victory of 9/11; but, the price of that bit of terrorism and all others is that ‘they’ have exposed the truth of themselves. ‘They’ have awakened a sleeping giant. Knowledge is power; and, now that the evil has dared to show it’s face, the enemy is identified and we can defeat it – IF ‘we’ muster the necessary courage. And, by we; I mean every single non-muslim. It is their own doctrine that condemns them. It is their own doctrine that declares all non-muslims infidels and their enemy. By making us their enemy; they have invited reciprocity.
In the fulness of time, ‘they’ give ‘us’ one of two choices; convert to Islam or become a martyr. That’s where passive tolerance will lead.
Someone needs to inform this incredibly gullible useful idiot writer that the only difference between the 9/11 jihadists and the jihadists pushing this supremacist ground zero mega mosque is that “these Muslims” are stealth jihadists that use deceit and deception as their primary weapons. Either way the goal is the same, subjugation of all unbelievers via the imposition of Sharia.
‘Yes, there were
MuslimsNazis involved in the9/11 attacksholocaust. But were they these Muslims?’No relation to the author BTW, thank God. Those Muslims took down the WTC. Those Muslims bombed the WTC the first time. Those Muslims were involved with hijacking any number of planes and a cruise ship filled with civilians and killed them. That Muslim killed 13 at Fort Hood. That Muslim tried to blow up a plane over Detroit. That(ose) Muslim(s) tried to blow up Times Square. Those Muslims are behind more than 15,000 terror attacks world wide since 9/11. A question, at what point does it become THESE Muslims? When they kill your daughter or son?
Yo Jazz,
You say, “moderate Muslims”.
If we’re speaking of the truth of Islam, there’s no such thing as ‘moderate’.
You ask, “In the interest of harmony in the community, might they not push for a less controversial location?”
EXACTLY! BINGO! ‘Their’ silence is deafening.
You offer, “If such measures are effective and the builders decide to relocate, the story comes to an end.”
NOT SO FAST! Even in the news today, there are reports all over the country of an uprising against the building of mosques anywhere in America.
The ‘fat lady’ has yet to sing.
You talk about our laws “respecting an establishment of religion”.
If the KKK establishes itself as a religion, should we respect that?
Is there no one with power in this country who also is still a patriot; who can define the truth of Islam as the ‘clear and present danger’ that it is; and, deal with it as such with no further delay? When it comes to national security, do we not have laws which trump a claim of freedom of religion? If not, let’s do something about that little loophole; and fast!
Maybe our laws should be prudent enough to disallow any group or organization from cloaking itself with the name ‘religion’ when by its own words, it’s own deeds declares itself America’s enemy. Is that too logical for the powers that be?
Islam’s own doctrine declares all non-muslims infidels and enemy. It is Islam’s doctrine that makes it’s members our enemy. Islam is condemned by it’s own words and deeds; and, it will fall. That inconvenient truth is pre-ordained in Holy Scripture.
In the words of that great gospel song sung in the movie The Color Purple; “God is trying to tell you something”.
God warns us repeatedly; “Let those who have ears hear; let those who have eyes see”.
No need for the government to stop the construction. Recent news indicates that the mosque only owns half of the property – the other half is leased for 99 years by Con Edison
The wonderful document called the U.S. Constitution (what is left of it) allows freedom of religion which means that these Muslims should be allowed to build their mosque on any available property – such as any Christian church. However, peace loving Muslims would respect the feelings of New Yorkers (and all Americans) and choose to not build next to or near Ground Zero out of respect of that ‘sacred’ ground. Peace loving Muslims would respect the sensitivity to that particular area and would not want to build anywhere near it. These Muslims are clearly sending a message that they do not care about how we feel and they will build their mosque regardless of the feelings of the general people. We know the symbolism of a mosque is conquered territory and it disgusts me they would consider building near the location of a horrible American tragedy. It disgusts me that Bloomberg who claims to be American has not made any reference to the inappropriate nature of the Muslim build request. Guliani would never have stood for this.
They want our respect and want us to not look at all of them as terrorists, yet this is clearly deliberate emotional terror to Americans. They are not helping their cause. Interesting to view the source of this also. The group funding the potential mosque created a Paypal account to raise money. The link only provides email information and no other contact detail. There is speculation that Al Quida is a funding source which would explain their adamant position to build on this location. Peace loving Muslims would build further away – Queens, Brooklyn, etc. Anywhere but Ground Zero. If you do not want to be seen as a terrorist, don’t act like a terrorist.
The bottom line is that the practice of Islam does NOT require the faithful to build and operate a mosque anywhere outside of the Kaaba in Mecca. There is no religious requirement for Muslims to build a mosque at Ground Zero.
Some Muslims *want* to build an Islamic Center at Ground Zero. No Muslims *must* build an Islamic Center at Ground Zero. If New Yorkers don’t want a mosque at that location, New Yorkers don’t have to allow one to be built.
In a secular society, public interest is a legitimate reason to regulate the operation of a not-for-profit ( as opposed to a for-prophet
) activity at a particular location.
It’s not Islamaphobia, much less mis-Islam-ism, it’s just the will of the majority.
Dear American Children,
Most Americans, learned and unlearned, do not have a proper understanding of the 1st Amendment or the Constitution in general. I will set forth the correct interpretation of the 1st Amendment and leave it up to you to determine for yourselves the accuracy of it. I do this in respect to the proposed mosque construction at Ground Zero.
The most important thing to understand when interpreting the 1st Amendment is that the “freedom of speech” or the “freedom of religion” does NOT mean the “freedom of action”. That is to say, people do not have the right to build religious buildings wherever they please nor can people practice their religions however they please. We have speech censorship, don’t we? People can’t practice polygamy or sacrifice animals in the name of religion, right? Morality dictates the rights and wrongs of proper living and only genuinely spiritual people can educate the masses on the proper behaviors of religion. It is simply unethical to build a mosque at Ground Zero and no unethical or immoral thought, word or deed is protected or supported by the Constitution.
It is clearly evident that secular people degrade and demoralize the Constitution with their interpretations. We can clearly see this with all the politicians and lawmakers attempting to twist and change the Constitution with their interpretations in favor of their own personal understandings or their constituents wishes. They definitely do not follow the teachings of Abraham Lincoln. For example, and I quote: “What is the purpose of democracy? Is it to satisfy the desires of the majority? Or is it the achieve a just and moral public order?” The latter is definitely the principle of genuine democracy and therefore it is the Federal government’s duty to decide what is moral and just and this filters down to the state and city levels. This also includes religious matters. Is not our government supporting outreach Islamic religious programs with American taxpayer money? For though there may be a separation between “church and state”, there is not a separation between “God and state.”
Our Founding Fathers relied heavily on the Christian Bible to compose the foundations of our government without the element of bigotry or partialism against any religion. Whether Americans understand this or not, a real American is a saintly individual and sees the Constitution as a Holy Writ and interprets it in a truly “UNIVERSAL” sense. A true American takes only the side of Truth and not the side of politics or religion. His/her position is completely impartial. And his/her views should be deeply considered.
The fact is that the majority of people proclaiming various religions are secular people disguised as religious people. Their interpretations are partial and do not express the true meanings of their own religions. I will say that less than 1% of all Americans can interpret the Constitution in the true spirit it was written in. Unfortunately, a scholarly judicial education, like our Supreme Court Judges have, does not even qualify. This is the world’s curse. They praise the brilliance of scholarship and not the brilliance of spiritual illumination.
No doubt that everyone who reads these words will interpret or paint them with the colors of their own hearts and minds. Good people will read them rightly and bad people will read them wrongly. It is that simple. Every individual is responsible for his/her clear or clouded perception and interpretation of these words.
Sincerely, A Universal Well-Wisher
This is what Islam,the Inman and Obama are saying:
Israel destroys the Iranian nuclear plant. Exactly 10 years later to the day of this bombing, Muslims will welcome the Jews to bridge the gap through understanding and tolerence, build a 13 story Synagogue over one of the damaged buildings…I don’t think so.
I heard Jazz on Rick Moran’s BlogTalkRadio show with Ed Morrisey and Monica Showalter. It was a stimulating discussion. I found points to agree with from all the participants.
First, there is no real issue as to whether the government can or should try to block this mosque.
Second, I think those backing this project are either hugely tone deaf about the feelings of the American people about 9/11, or a deliberate provocation and propaganda tool by a group whose goal is the reestablishment of an Ottoman-type Caliphate. I think Monica’s points were spot on.
I don’t think this will be a reason for anybody to vote against Democrats in November, but it certainly has contributed yet another point to the image of Obama as a tyro who doesn’t understand his job or its limitations. His economic program has been hugely harmful rather than doing most of us any good that we can see, since we’re all still waiting to see the full extent of them on our taxes, jobs and health care. He may think that we just don’t like the medicine, and he’s right about that, but it’s far from clear that the spending and new government powers and programs ARE medicine and not arsenic.
The economic situation doesn’t make us feel more magnanimous toward Muslims, in whose name 9/11 was perpetrated, and Obama’s pandering to them at a Ramadan dinner just had the effect of reminding us that we’re never sure that some bland, even personable Muslim friend or acquaintance isn’t being recruited for Al Qaeda in his spare time. We’re already worried about the economy and the future of our health care. We just didn’t need this issue slapped up in front of us, too. Can’t Muslim congregations show the rest of us some of the sensitivity and respect their spokespersons keep demanding after every new terrorist event? It’s not a legal issue and shouldn’t be a political one, except as it reflects on the ineptness of our leaders, but it is a cultural issue and I worry how long our patience will last when so few Muslim leaders seem to care about America’s values, except as a club to divert criticism and doubts about where the rest of Islam stands.