Glenn Beck Rally: How Big Was the Crowd?
How many people attended Glenn Beck’s “Restoring Honor” rally in Washington, D.C., on Saturday?
There is a puzzling disparity among the estimates offered: USA Today and ABC News headline it merely “thousands” (but USA Today uses “tens of thousands” in the text, while ABC says “more than 100,000″), and the AP offers us “tens of thousands.” The New York Times offers us just “enormous,” while Politico takes the easy way out and simply says “no one can say for sure.” The National Park Service has returned to insisting that they don’t make crowd size estimates, which is true, except on those occasions when they do.
So, once again, let’s see if we can make a reasonable estimate for ourselves. Unlike some of our previous attempts, there seems to be a good supply of photographs.
First, one sent to Glenn Reynolds by Ed Frank, taken from the top of the Washington Monument. According to Ed, this was taken at about 11 am, while people were still arriving:
Second, the AP’s own photograph:
Another AP photograph shows more of the area between the Washington Monument and the end of the reflecting pool:
Clearly, it’s a big crowd.
First, look carefully at the crowd, and for context, have a look at this Google Map of the area.
You can see the Memorial on the left, the Washington Monument on the right, and of course these photographs are looking to the west; the reflecting pool is in the middle, and north is to the right.
Who cares how many people precisely attended the event? I’m happy with an estimate between 50,000 and 300,000. The important points were the messages and the attitudes.
Nobody believes Beck was not politically motivated, and he picked the date and place to irritate blacks and others. Beck knows how to manipulate language and images.
Another point was the racial composition of each event: whites on Beck’s side and blacks on Sharpton’s event. This is the reality of American integration in 2010.
Beck’s and others call to the return of old American values is unrealistic. The country has changed and will continue to change. We must adapt to the best it can offer. Religion is NOT a solution: it has never been. Most suffering of humanity stems from religious crackpot ideas.
Oh does it now? I await your analysis of every peice of humanity’s suffering on a world scale. Thanks for volunteering =]
You should bone up on religions of the world, other than Christian values….God was a mean God.
The Universe may not be as “nice” as Disneyland for your taste, nevertheless you should still count your magnificent blessings…
Wouldn’t it be classic karma for a foolish ingrate to be granted such a self-fulfilling prophecy, so the ingrate learned to recognize the blessings they once had?
Move away everybody… fire in the hole!
No, the Christian G-d-man is something of a fantasy, even if with good intentions. The Jewish concept of Hashem is that of a realistic G-d about human nature. But that is a side-argument to the topic at hand. The real point is that people like you use hatred of religion in general to justify orthodox moral relativism and abandonment of responsibility to face genuine enemies.
You have illustrated one of the major problems. When God cannot be spelled out and is bleeped like a curse word “G-d”, that’s a problem
But he gave your sorry ass life.
Unlike Islam and Budism, Christianity promotes independence and innovation, and charity to everyone- not just those of your select religion. It teaches all that you are the captain of your ship; you are in charge of your own destiny. Nothing is written.
wrong…Christianity is allllll about written rules, ask any bible thumpin preacher. They just stopped killing in the name of God and islam has not
Linda,
I believe you have mischaracterized Buddhism, which actually isnt a religion, but a way of approaching reality, which in fact teaches that the Buddha nature is within everyone, including other living creatures, and seeks not to “put someone in the driver’s seat” but to get individuals to realize that their mind is not coterminous with their ego….Buddhism has also been the cause of no wars or persecutions and does not claim divine word or book, and is by far the most tolerant “religion”….
Actually, Christianity is about dependence…. on God. We must recognize our need for Him and accept the payment of Jesus’ death on the cross as payment for our sins…. or pay for our sins with our eternal damnation. And it’s not about following rules… thousands of years of humanity has proved we don’t do that well.
I will grant you that once saved, we are given the Spirit which can and should bring about great understanding, charity, innovation, desire to submit to legitimate authority, etc.
I don’t know about a “mean” God..
I do think he has a sense of humor
..after all….he created you
touche’
he picked the date and place to irritate blacks and others”- Whats the point of doing that? The fact that they would be irritated that a white guy dare holds a rally on their ‘sacered holiday’ shows more on whos the racists in this discussion. So blacks have exclusive rights on MLK’s speech? if that was what MLK was truly about as sharpton claims then both sharpton AND MLK can kiss my white azz Next Kings own neice was at glens rally Not sharptons what does that tell you then about sharpton. Also sharpton and his people were invited to the GB rally. they were welcome there. I dont GB would have gotten such a warm reception had the opposite happened. Sharpton goes there directly for a confrontation. This proves more and more that sharpton is nothing more than a racist opportunist who needs racism to stay. He is a joke
jmz you are so right. al sharpton jessie jackson and others of their ilk have become millionairs playing the race card and claining to represent the blacks. the only ones they truly represent is jackson sharpton et al.
Which rally was about “Content of Character” and which one was about “judging by color of skin?”
Beck hasn’t become a millionaire playing on peoples’ intolerence?
Nope. Next question…
Thank you, William. I’m another one of those white Americans who reverence Dr. King and his legacy. I think he would be really sad to see all the racism coming from people who share his skin color.
You hit the nail on the head. Becks rally was planned and space reserved long before Sharpton said ” oh crap that day is coming better plan a march or rally or something for the press”
vivo you really do need to get off the koolaid,
“Religion is NOT a solution: it has never been. Most suffering of humanity stems from religious crackpot ideas.”
No, the source of real human misery, not to mention the highest death tolls, has been from government-based organized atheism (aka Marxism and its various offshoots).
Closer to home, how many deaths can be laid at the feet of Al Sharpton vs. Glenn Beck?
castro. stalin. mao. they killed more then all the religions put together and they did it in one lifetime. the only possible exception is islam and the muslims ..the body count there isn’t finished as they are still killing.
don’t forget kim (father & son), pol pot, ho chi mihn, …
That’s absolutely correct. You could throw the atheist Hitler in there too. They did all their killing between 1935 and 1980. Christaphobics (Leftists) should take note, we’re talking about the slaughter of upwards of 50,000,000 people. How many people did the Christian’s murder in the 20th Century? I listened to Sharpton’s speech ( I don’t know why I would do that to myself) and I conclude that the Reverend is a race baiting jerk.
As for Sharpton, has everyone forgotten the Twana Brawley mess in NY (excuse my spelling of the name). Beck knocks no one. As for religion, yes a lot of bad things have been done in the name of religion, but lets deal with here and now. As a Christian I feel this country is headed in the wrong direction. It has nothing to do with color or race. Just not what the founders of this great country had in mind for us. Socialism has failed all around the globe. We were and can be again a leading light in this world if we return to our core values as Americans, all of us, Christian, Jew, Buddist, Moslem, Shinto, I don’t care which one you chose, but chose one and let us move forward with guidance from above.
Islam is still killing too. And they have a vast history of slaughtering christians and hindus. The total numbers may be higher for the “atheists” but that has more to do with available weapon technology then want for blood lust. Do you honestly think the christians wouldn’t have killed millions more then they did in the new world, holy land and Europe if they had more then just swords, pikes and muzzle loading long arms?
Possibly so Phranc. But the broader point, which you apparently missed, is that modern day Christians aren’t killing people…. nor have they in any great numbers for more than 150 years. Totalitarian atheists have a much more recent history of mass murder and the Muslims are killing people every day in the name of Allah. Forget about the Inquisition and the Crusades… it’s ancient history where Christians are concerned. Modern day Christians are peacemakers… oftentimes to a fault. We need to stay focused on the world we live in today. Muslims, and there left wing atheistic apologists are the problem.
One thing General, Islam is not a religion. Therefore you cannot put it into the same category as all other religions.
Excuse me??? Please elaborate on your statement, inspectorudy. I grant you that Islam is not purely a religion because it encompasses laws, politics and economics, but it is first and foremost a religion. Have you read the Koran or parts of it?
Islam is certainly a religion, but it shouldn’t be treated as one. That is because Islam is equal parts religion, social movement, economical movement and political movement all wrapped together. You can not separate one from another.
You can, of course, as individual only take the religious aspect of Islam and not follow the other aspects. However that would be kinda like a Christian only following some of the Commandments and not others. Individual can certainly do that, but is he really a Christian than?
I think that this is the main aspect that we in the west have to grasp. We are used to religion being one thing and government being another (at least lately). This is a very dangerous way of dealing with Islam, since it means that we can not fully understand it. We should learn about it, and not blindly hate it, nor blindly assume that it’s peaceful.
In the past Christianity has been used as bases for government or justification of it (such as Pope or Kings), but it was a subversion of Christianity that allowed that, well that and the fact that most couldn’t read the Bible and know what’s actually in it.
Islam on the other hand is at its heart a justification for Religion, Politics, Economy and Justice.
Re: Islam’s boggling body-count, visit http://www.thereligionofpeace.com. They keep a daily worldwide tally. It’s chilling.
Of course you are disdainful of any estimates of the huge volume of people who attended Beck’s rally. So everyone who disagrees with you is a crackpot? So the blacks “own” the Lincoln Memorial and Dr. MLK, Jr.? Dr. King would roll in his grave if he knew what Sharpton attempted to do, divide us by color. It is the antithesis of his “I have a dream” speech.
Al Sharpton, is responsible for much of the racial divide in America. He preys on people, while giving speech’s about discrimination,but it is him who spreads his hate and discontent. Of course, he has made a business of fear mongering, and has prospered financially in the long run. What would the Reverend do if he could no longer use race baiting? Think of the Twana Brawley case, the Duke university fiasco,and his failure to answer financial questions about the Campaign money he received for his bid for US President. I always thought reverends were men of God’s teachings. I must have been misinformed— but I don’t think so.
I do not recall such a nasty racial divide as we have now in our country. I lay the cause at the feet of Obama, not necessarily Sharpton. Sharton is merely a lacky. A preening lacky, none the less a lacky..a greasy looking lacky.
Obama is the true divider. When have we ever elected a know nothing, un=vetted person to office ..merely because of his skin color? Then anytime we disagree with him, his people yell “racism”..bullpocky..
We like Beck, tears, religion and all, because he gives you facts..then tells you to go check them out for yourself. The left tries to destroy him and others because they shed a light on the roaches we have in Washington. The left goes crazy because people like Beck merely repeat their words back to them!
I estimate there were about 20 million people at The Restoring Honor rally..about as good an estimate as the MSM..
Bravo to you.
I do not recall such a nasty racial divide as we have now in our country. I lay the cause at the feet of Obama, not necessarily Sharpton. Sharton is merely a lacky. A preening lacky, none the less a lacky..a greasy looking lacky.
Obama is the true divider. When have we ever elected a know nothing, un=vetted person to office ..merely because of his skin color? Then anytime we disagree with him, his people yell “racism”..bullpocky..
We like Beck, tears, religion and all, because he gives you facts..then tells you to go check them out for yourself. The left tries to destroy him and others because they shed a light on the roaches we have in Washington. The left goes crazy because people like Beck merely repeat their words back to them!
I estimate there were about 20 million people at The “Restoring Honor” rally..about as good an estimate as the MSM..
Dumbo no 1 care’s what you think & last time I looked there was a King there that was anything but white
I say this as an atheist – you’re absolutely right, if we considering “atheism” just another belief system, like religion. That’s 100 million deaths right there, in just the last 100 years, and that was the only 100 years in the entire history of the human race that atheism’s ever had power. What a record for our team, huh, vivo?
But, then again, that’s just like vivo, to cheer for the mass murderers and genocidal maniacs. Again, as an atheist myself, I sure am happy I live in this Christianist nation, and not an atheistic (or an Islamic) one.
(ARGH!)
“Atheist”, “monotheist”, and “polytheist” simply refer to the number of gods one believes in.
Yes, there is a very murderous “atheistic religion”. Buddhism is also “atheistic”, are you going to claim Buddhism is also murderous?
Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are “monotheistic” faiths, do you intend to lump them together as equally sociopathic?
Buddhism is not atheist, it is monist. Try reading the heart sutra. Red Pine has a very good translation and explanation of the text. And evaluating Islam as not even being a religion based on a terrorist minority, is rather like an evaluation of Christianity based on the Spanish inquisition. When religion goes wrong it kills.
I don’t think that’s strictly true, because you can be both monist and atheist. In the case of Buddhism, where the underlying unity is Śūnya, “empty”, the whole question gets very esoteric. Gautama, however, was an atheist.
I love Red Pine’s translation, even though I’ve done my own.
Buddhism isn’t atheistic, in practice.
Buddhists don’t treat Buddha as just another man. He is Shakasama, God.
I’m talking about Japanese Buddhism, which is a different “flavor” than mainland Buddhism, which I don’t know much about.
Well, it makes about as much sense to say “Japanese Buddhism believes” in this context as to assert “American Christians believe in transubstantiation.” Shin, Tendai, Zen, Shingon, and Nichiren Shonsu all have different points of view. And Japanese Buddhism has a lot of syncretisms with the local animist religion, what came to be called “shinto”, not to mention a whole esoteric tradition called “shobugendo” that’s a kind of shamanic practice.
But you’re wrong about “shaka-sama” meaning “God”. That’s just the Japanese form of “Shakyamuni”, “sage of the Shakya clan”, one of the traditional terms for Gautama.
You repeat the typical lefty lie on how most of mans hostility to man stems from religious differences. I warrant the pogroms of Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot murdered more folks than all the wars of the previous thousand years. Or two … or ten. (Remember … half the people who have EVER lived are alive at this minute.)
Granted men will war over religion but usually religion is only the superficial or apparent cause. Wars are initiated by leaders. Usually for power and profit.
America has been the most philanthropic nation and people ever in all history on planet earth. On this continent that philosophy and tradition flows from our Judeo-Christian values. Would a wholly secular populace freely give away its hard won substance? The statistics are extant.
All three of those people killed in the name of their dogma. I don’t see your point.
Everyone is trying to screw you. Whether you are left or right, someone somewhere wants to put their hand in your pocket, and put their words in your heart. This polarization of issues we face now is simply you choosing who gets to rape your soul. You get raped either way, but at least you get to feel like you made the decision. Preposterous way to live.
VIVO- ( in Spanish you would be not so “vivo”) Having had relatives who survived two communist revolutions, I can say without fear of contradiction that atheists live better in Christian societies than they do in atheist societies. Apart from the distinctions between the death tolls of Christian vs. atheist societies (Hitler-the church hating atheist- killed more people in his itty bitty lifetime than were killed in 800 years of Inquisition all over Europe).Read your history- the crusades were defensive wars, trying to stem the tide of Muslim invasion of Europe after they had allowed the Muslim to conquer all of Christian north Africa. Also, during and after the fall of Rome it was Christians who invented hospitals, orphanages, charitable inns, and later, universities. Many of the first scientists were monks. Harvard and Yale were seminaries. Haven’t you ever noticed that the professors wear clerical robes at ceremonies? I wonder where that came from? The only thing atheists have contributed to the earth is mass murder on an unbelievable scale, before and after birth..
I direct your attention to the study mentioned in the following article, by a Chinese economist:http://blog.acton.org/archives/17578-cardinal-pell-on-global-warming-western-civilization.html. “Markets with Churches and Markets without Churches” for further evidence of the superiority of Christian-based societies.
“Religion is NOT a solution: it has never been. Most suffering of humanity stems from religious crackpot ideas.”
Generalisation sure is fun. Somehow you’ve managed to include in the same category the old Christian lady who would donate her last few pennies to feed the poor, with Islamic jihadists or voodoo practitioners. You’ve also neglected to mention that atheistic regimes in just the 20th century alone have killed more people than all the worlds “religious wars” combined (possibly with the exception of Islam).
Also, what is generic “religion” (as if that nebulous term actually describes anything) not a solution to? You seem to imply we have problems that needs solving – you wouldn’t be describing fallen human nature, would you?
Anyway, back on topic, nice to see such a large turn-out. I’m still not sure on the number though – some people who were there insist it was more like 300-400k+.
Sure, those religious nuts the Communists, who murdered between 100 and 160 million. Throw in the Nazis, who were pagan, while we’re at it.
And everyone knows the First World War was fought at the behest of The Church (not sure which one, but we can be sure it had a religious motive).
The US Civil War. ANother religious struggle.
Then there was the French Revolution, started by atheists…
Looks like you’re full of it. But if it warms your bigoted little self to sneer at murdering believers, go right ahead.
World War One was started by the church ? Wow, I didn’t know that. I guess all of my research and education in England and Europe was for naught because obviously you must know more than all of the people and historians who actually lived through and researched this war. Are you currently teaching at Harvard, Oxford ? Or just in your basement ?
Did you really miss the sarcasm in my comment, are you just pretending to be dense and stupid? Why don’t you also pick at my characterization of the Communists are “religious nuts?” Or did that not trip your sarcasm detector?
Sad lack of reading comprehension skills, here… It’s called “irony”.
Sarcasm, it is sarcasm.
“Nobody believes Beck was not politically motivated, and he picked the date and place to irritate blacks and others. Beck knows how to manipulate language and images.”
For the sake of intellectual consistency, my friend, are you willing to concede that the Ground Zero mosque proponents are guilty of the same motivations?
Probably. Beck and the NY mosque people have the same intellectual capacity, they can say something and not mean it. The only thing we can believe is facts and actions.
If the ‘good’ Muslims were sincere about keeping the World peace, why don’t they fight their terrorists themselves?
Beck intentions are obviously to create controversy to make money for himself. The problem is the gullible paranoid crowd.
Short form: “la la la, I can’t hear anything, nothing happened.”
Besides, everyone knows suffering arises from attachment, which arises from ignorance of the transitory nature of conditioned existence.
Yes, Buddhism is perhaps the only religion (if you want to call it a religion) that comports philosophically with the way things really are. All you have to do is experience it for yourself to figure this out (just like the Buddha did). Ironically, one would think conservatives would be most attracted to Buddhism because of its emphasis on self responsibility. But no, they prefer spiritual handouts from a magic sky daddy.
(ahem) The Christian god of today has different attributes than the Christian god of history/the bible, and very different indeed from the god of your imagination.
But, the Buddhists I know are conservatives, and are perfectly willing to allow the Christians and Jews to seek advancement in their own ways; very odd libertarians. Sort of. There are many different “schools” (churches? temples?) of Buddhism.
(I am an atheistic pagan, not Buddhist, and think the Buddhists are unnecessarily complicating life and morality.)
Aha, you must hang around with old-fashioned Asian Buddhists — I’m Japanese tradition, and lots of my fellows from Japan are Republican or otherwise pretty conservative. Caucasian Buddhists, however, on average are a little to the left of Ralph Nader — enough so that during the 2008 election, the McClatchy papers went looking for a Republican Buddhist and I was the only one Google could find.
No, I don’t think you are correct here. The Christian God, and for that matter, the God of all the major monotheistic religions has certain attributes. Omniscience, omnipotence, are two that come to mind. They have remained the same since God became portable. However, those attributes are irrational when combined with other tenets. For instance, the idea of our having free will is incompatible with the omniscience of God. In other words, God’s foreknowledge of your actions is incompatible with your acting freely. What God knows must happen, so there is no free will. You have to give one up. Either you can act freely and God doesn’t know everything (then we are no longer talking about the theistic God) or you do not act freely and your actions are predetermined by what God knows. But I’m sure the teabagger crowd really doesn’t give much thought to this type of thing, if they really think about things much at all. Thinking is for all those librul elites.
Good pickup, Praetorian.
Right now I’m reading Stephen Bachelor’s “Buddhism Without Beliefs.” I like it. Check it out.
Batchelor is excellent. I’ve written some stuff along these lines, check out this section of my blog. Joseph Goldstein’s One Dharma is good too.
No, it was not. God is omniscient. We have free will and he knows exactly how we will use it, each of us. They are not necessarily incompatible. For all you know, God is not bound by time. He is Alpha and Omega; the Beginning and the End. Do not try to put human limits upon God. Such is foolishness.
Marc, get a grip. I stated the Third Noble Truth and Praetorian picked up the reference.
every one has a “religion” – a viewpoint, way of looking at things, etc. To say “all religions are full of crackpots” is to make a “religious” statement. Why not just say you hate Christianity? That is probably what the issue is.
democracy
Definition
de·moc·ra·cy[ di mókrəssee ]de·moc·ra·cies Plural
NOUN
1. free and equal representation of people: the free and equal right of every person to participate in a system of government, often practiced by electing representatives of the people by the majority of the people
2. democratic nation: a country with a government that has been elected freely and equally by all its citizens
3. democratic system of government: a system of government based on the principle of majority decision-making
4. control of organization by members: the control of an organization by its members, who have a free and equal right to participate in decision-making processes
Now go look up “republic” & report back to us.
AT THE CLOSE OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, a woman asked Benjamin Franklin what type of government the Constitution was bringing into existence. Franklin replied, “A republic, if you can keep it.”
Regardless of one’s judgment concerning the type of government that the Constitution brought into existence in 1787, no one can deny that it was truly the most unusual and radical in history.
From: http://www.fff.org/freedom/1101b.asp
Well Vivo – There were more minorities at the Restoring Honor than Mr. Sharpton had in total at this rally if you insist on comparing skin color. It is just that the Honor rally was so enormous that that fact was hard to see.
I take Mr. Beck at his word that the date was chosen without knowing it was that anniversary. You can attribute bad motives to him if you want to.
There was not one negative word spoken at that rally but Mr. Sharpton’s speech was filled with negativity.
Dr. King sees the glass half-full and Mr. Sharpton sees it as half-empty.
He wants to keep the hate alive – it is his source of income after all.
How can anyone object to bringing people together?
Desperate much? Sad much?
I’m not overly-religious but I recognize, as you apparantly do not, that the moral and ethical concepts which underlie our society (and all socieities for that matter) have their roots in some form of religious observance. Many have been bad but the simple athropological fact is that religion has been the major, and often the only, way through which the concept of a humane society has been created. Many have died due to religious ideals but without them we would be tearing at each others throats like packs of wild dogs.
Another thing – I’ve always noticed that whenever persons such as yourself make a statement such as “Most suffering of humanity stems from religious crackpot ideas” they have in mind the sentiments of a guy like Glenn Beck or Charles Krauthammer or the doctrines of the evangelical movement. Why is it that the REVEREND Al Sharpton or the REVEREND Jesse Jackson are never lumped under the heading as “religious crackpots?” Surely these are men of faith who are anxious to return the U.S. to religious and even Biblical principals”
I am not suggesting that you are an atheist but perhaps you can explain why atheists are always beating up on the evangelicals and “mainstream Christians” (particularly the Catholic Church) while always giving a pass to guys like REVEREND Jeremiah Wright (and his church), Islam in general, Hinduism, and virtually every one of the other of the world’s faiths? Is atheism merely a pose for anti-Westernism or does it really reject all concepts of spirituality and some kind of godhead, however defined? The latter would be true atheism. The former is merely political posturing. I look forward to your answer.
To chambers: I am an atheist but not one of those you describe. While I was raised in the protestant church, went to Sunday school and was confirmed at 16, none of what I was supposed to learn stuck. So today I am an atheist,conservative/libertarion and I have no beef with any of the religions, except to the overall cruel laws that dominate Islam. Being anti-western is definitely not me either. As someone mentioned, I am also happy to live in a mostly Christian society because I have nothing to fear. One of my friends who is ordained as a Buddhist monk is a very fine and fair person but she is to the left of the political spectrum. Her tolerance favors the left over the right but at least she applies the Buddhist tolerance to the right as well.
I agree with vivo. Praying to a magical sky daddy as a way to solve your problems is irrational and ignorant. I prefer to just get off my ass and solve them myself. It works pretty well. Try it sometime.
Hi, Candy Pants!
When do you go back to school to “learn” more of the immature trash that guides your notions of “thoughtful” discourse?
Come back in 10-15 years after you’ve had some time to absorb life’s hard knocks.
He won’t be through kissin Obama’s butt for lower them student loans.. as always, follow the money
And you think requesting spiritual handouts from a magical sky daddy qualifies as thoughtful? Nothing is as awesome as ignorance in action.
Praying to a magical sky daddy as a way to solve your problems is irrational and ignorant. I prefer to just get off my ass and solve them myself.
Uhh, you’re a neo-communist collectivist. You cant even wipe your own ass without getting an amen from the commandante. Surely you know what you stand for so please, dont stand here patronizing us by claiming you believe in individual responsibility.
Solve your problems yourself. Great. More power to you.
There may come a day, however, when you cannot, for you lack the strength or wherewithal. There are no atheists in the foxhole. When you fall on hard times, when your back is to the wall, when you have reached bottom, then such a proud man as you will cry out to your Maker for succor.
Perhaps it will be a sick or injured child which will bring you to your knees. When there is nothing more you can possibly do, when it is beyond your power, what will you do? You will humble yourself and turn to God in your desperation. Will you be too proud then? Will you allow your child to die because you will not try everything, including prayer? How overweening is your pride, you foolish, proud man?
Just curious about one thing: When the sex is really good, do you cry out to God or Darwin?
I use the word ‘god’ any time i get a chance, and other similar religious expressions (jesus christ!) and not mean anything religious. They are just nice sounding words that convey surprise or excitement.
Hey Praetorian, you’ve merely substituted one set of “irrational” authorities for antoher. I’m referring specifically to the anti-intellectual, post-millenial immanentist worldview that passes for thinking on the Left. “Burn the old world to reveal the new one,” eh, comrade?
The problem with your outlook is that – and you’ve demonstrated this repeatedly in your postings – you prefer the rule of men to the rule of law. Now, you may not realize that’s where you’re going, but it is where you’ll eventually arrive. Problem is, in recent times, the rule of men invariably leads to folks like you looking at the world through a barbed wire enclosure where unpleasant things happen within.
Besides, you never answered my question that I posted to you some time back. Are you a:
1. Wishful thinker?
2. Coercive utopian?
3. Lord of the flies wanna-be?
Hint: the first two usually wind up dead or enslaved by the third one – and no one is more surpised than they are at the outcome. “But we didn’t mean this…” – Their epitaph.
Lets face facts- whites and blacks don’t like each other. Thats obvious after nearly 50 years of the gov’t promoting integration and harmony. Try as the media and gov’t might, you can’t force one race to like another. As far as Whites and Blacks in America go -No two groups could be so opposite each other.
Um, no. That is false. Whites generally do not have a problem with blacks. The reverse is not true. After decades of race-hustling and grievance-mongering, many blacks maintain a hatred of whitey. It is frequently expressed. They say things about whitey that, if a white man said it about a black man, would get him pilloried.
Your statement sounds a bit like projection.
Thank you so much for your sophomoric opinion about religion and it’s effect on civilization.
If you think God exists, then so doesn’t Santa Clause and leprechauns.
And you believe that once there was nothing… no matter, no space, and no time (wrap your mind around that for a second). Then it all was created out of nothing and by nothing, absolutely nothing. Seems to me that even a belief in Santa Claus is more rational than that one.
an awful lot of scientists agree that once there was nothing.. no matter, no space, no time.. it all came to exist in ‘the big bang’, the scientific name for an event that is well understood since the 1920s when Edwin Hubble discovered the red shift and figured out the universe is the result of an explosion.
So yeah, I believe it. Most scientists do. It is impossible to ignore the vast amount of evidence that everything in the universe originated from a fixed point with no volume. The origin of helium, the trace amounts of rippling microwave radiation throughout the universe, and a hundred other things science cannot ignore and does not.
You are the one with a stubborn refusal to look at the evidence. Scientists admit it. They just won’t go to the logical conclusion, that if time, space, matter and energy all came from nothing, perhaps there is something other than those things, something which exists without them, something with the ability to create them. Nobody can ever know, because scientific evidence ceases where matter, energy, space and time stop obeying natural law. Natural law kicked in some milliseconds after the initial explosion, according to science. Before that, nothing behaved in predictable ways. And of course, before that there WAS nothing.
World Wars I and II were not religious. Neither was the Korean War, the war in Vietnam, the war in Iraq, the killing of Hutus by Tutsis or the Cultural Revolution in China. Mao Tse Tung killed roughly 50 – 60 million Chinese in the name of Communism. Stalin killed around 40 million Russians. Apart from war, Mother Nature herself brings about suffering through floods, earthquakes and the like.
Your statement about religion causing suffering is too broad of a generalization. How many people are made more happy by religion? How can you compare the numbers of people made happy with the numbers made miserable? Suffering can come about in the name of religion because religions consist of people, and people do not match the ideals of religion.
“The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
But in ourselves, that we are underlings.”
Vivo, u r the crackpot, get a life!!!
Thanks god we have Vivo for getting the daily insight in the liberal mind’s tenebtres -
Vivo buddy, what Becks gathering was just another sign that dba Obama presidency is… gosh, kind of isn’t anymore -
Basically Barry’s act is over – and he ain’t yet finished his first half of presidency and no one takes him seriously any more – in the country or elsewhere he’s seen as a just crappy airwarmer without warranty -
An illustration of this: just a few light from his rented hovel in Martha’s Vineyard, a restaurant posted a huge sign: “Free Peace Nobel Prize with 3 Shrimp Tacos – e/thing just 8.99!” – what a deal!
Worse than that, his second part of presidency (in case he won’t be marched out from the office), will be just dodging and deflecting questions about everything Obama, illegitimacy and competence y compris -
And Beck hasn’t touched any of these – yet -
Hehehe – I take the Nobel Peace Prize tacos – wow! what a deal!
Obama has what it takes to be a good president. People like you just badmouth and show ignorance. He has accomplished major things that now you just take for granted. He has plenty of support, but the problem with the slow Economy is that some billionaires are sitting there counting their money, financing Tea Parties and not investing where they should.
And the masses are blind to this and more . . . Compare the Middle Class 20 years ago and now (use facts and numbers).
Oh, I forgot! I can get an excellent shrimp taco for $1.50,
That’s a deal!
Most of the true suffering in this world hasn’t been brought about by religion. It is brought about by ignorant masses who will not fight for what is right. Pain and suffering brought about by communism and socialism. 100′s of millions have died at the hands of communist despots and their crazy followers. All these nuts subscribe to Darwinism. Religion may not offer a solution but following Jesus does offer the only solution. Our country should be about values of family and freedom. Neither of which really exist anymore. The greatest moments in the history of this country is when the common family lead by a father endured hardships to make this a better place for their children. I’m no fan of Beck. I think he is in it for the money. Same as Sharpton. Our country needs a real proven American leader such as Herman Cain. This man could provide this country with a moral leadership that hasn’t been seen since, well maybe never. Perhaps we all should look in the mirror and see if we are a people worth saving. The direction we are going is a place we do not want to be. Just for the record I do not wish or support a state sponsored religion. Last thing I want is the government telling me how to worship Jesus.
Vivo it was by Al Sharpton own choice not to join in Becks call for honor and respect for all. Al Sharpton has made a very good living off the backs of the poor blacks in this country, he is afraid that we will come together as one people., Then he might have to get a real job and GOD forbid actually do something constructive with his life. First Beck applied for the permits for his rally before Sharpton and if Sharpton really wanted to bring people together he should of joined in Beck`s rally. He chose not to join in Beck`s rally because Sharpton is nothing more than a racist flimflam man!
Sorry to have to throw FACTS at you(I know how you touchy feely libs HATE FACTS..sorry)MLK’s neice,Alveeda,was BLACK on Saturday & she’s still BLACK today!
THE REVEREND Sharpton,would obviously rather keep black Americans SEGREGATED,….WHY wasn’t the Good REVEREND on that stage???
I happened to run into a nice lady,who helped us buy our subway tickets, who informed me that she was happy that her family was “being bussed down from Sharpton’s church in NY”….& he still only managed to find a few hundred SEGREGATIONISTS!!In PROPORTION to the MINORITY that they are in America’s population,(remember they’re a MINORITY?!!!!!)there were probably MORE THAN THAT WITH US!!!
STOP THE RACISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whom do they think they are fooling? Anyone who cares enough to pay attention knows that this is a HUGE crowd. It is a clear display of the influence Glenn Beck wields. Ask yourself if Olbermann or any of his ilk could draw such a crowd?
Beck is Dorothy pulling back the curtain on the Wizard of Oz. “Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!”, says the MSM.
Just watched Al Sharpton one of the Race INDUSTRIES chief proponents on Fox and his disappointment that Beck was not controversial, political or confrontation was palpable. So instead he chose to criticise him for exactly that NOT being controversial and offensive. Al and a few of da’ boys turned up at a miniscule counter rally hoping for a confrontation and when non occurred they praised THEMSELVES LOL.
Seems that in the USA only the loony left and Racist Blacks are allowed to or even considered capable of having SENSITIVITY if all the Lame Stream Media bleating and Race Monger spouting by Sharpton and Co. about Glenn Beck doing his thing at the Lincoln Memorial on the anniversary of MLK’s speech there are to be believed . It seems that somehow this is OFFENSIVE to moonbats and Racist Blacks. However if mainstreet America says it is SENSITIVE and OFFENDED that Muslims want to build a TRIUMPHALIST Mosque at Ground Zero then they are not they are just being Islamophobic and Bigots and are HATE MONGERS.
The left wing moonbat and anti white racist mind is a very,very strange place don’t you think?
Unbelievable HYPOCRISY is something left wing moonbats, so called RINO ‘conservatives’ ,Black Racists and Mohammedans share in common.
Agree with you, it appears that only on the left is ‘the color of the skin’ more important than anything. I watched the rally on C-SPAN, and liked the ‘faith’ revival; faith which does not only consists of christians. But again, all the race hustlers like Sharpton could come up with was ‘sicial justice’ etc.. Besides, MLK was a Republican, which is mostly unknown to those who follow Sharpton. Their narrow minded existance will never allow an inch of honesty!
Pragmatist you are 110% correct.
I watched Al yesterday on Fox. He struck me as being someone who had his finger solidly in the wind wondering if he should tacking to the right with his persona.
I suppose we will be watching Glenn Beck at 8:00 instead of 5:00 from now on.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/oreilly-tells-beck-if-he-gets-over-100000-at-828-rally-he-needs-to-anchor-8pm-show/
Amen to that. BOR thinks he is a tough interviewer but he is very lazy and superficial and his questions are those of one who hasn’t researched his topic.
BOR has become exactly that…a BORe.
Tough interviewer? Ha.. he’s not worth watching anymore. I think he caters to the left and is afraid..afraid to face things head on anymore.
We like Beck. He’s likable, gives us information and tells us not to take his word.go look up the facts for yourself. BOR just ..well, he’s boring and tries so hard to be in the center that he leans left.
If Beck were to take BOR’s place…there would be trouble. I do not believe the left/liberals/politicians could take that truth and facts that he presents..it’s bad enough with his being at time slot he’s in and half of America is at work not listening or watching.
I know of many people around here that if not for work and the distance..would have been at his rally.
I couldn’t agree more about BOR. I was a great fan for a few months until I realized that BOR’s a dissembler and total spin meister. He’s a bully too.
My husband and I cheer when Laura Ingraham stands in for BOR: what you see is what you get with her. She and Megyn Kelly make BOR look like the moral and intellectual pygmy he is. I’ll bet he has Glenn Beck on his show and hangs out with him, mainly to keep an eye on him.
You go, Glenn!
So true!! He hangs with Beck because Beck lifts BOR up.. Look at the tour they did..alone BOR was nothing, with Beck they were sell are outs!!
BOR-e is a bully, he doesn’t have the facts that Beck, Kelly, Laura have or the moxie that someone like Coulter has. Hannity is okay, at least he has Beckel on. He doesn’t try to appease the left like BOR does. BOR’s program has changed, for the the worse..
There really should be a Spanish FOX station with these guys!!
All we want is the truth
OMG, Abi, lookout and others I am so happy to read what you say. I have written emails to Fox several times already suggesting that Laura or Beck should be given BOR’s spot as either of them is substantially more interesting than BOR. Moreover, I’ve said in my emails that BOR invites Beck as a guest because BOR longs for some of Beck’s glory. The only issue I have with Beck is religion. I don’t think it belongs on the program, it is a private thing. Regretfully, I gave up on Beck’s radio progam because of the chit chat (like a bunch of middle-aged hens)and the religious moralizing, it bores me to death.
Greetings, all bored with that sell-out BOR! He’s not authentic and I hope that FOX gets the message and gives someone else his prime time spot.
Hannity: I like him. He’s authentic, warts and all–and a gentleman, to boot. (BOR’s a boor too!) What you see with Hannity is what you get. Unlike BOR, who’s now spinning like a top re Obama, Hannity’s been as steady as a rock on his distrust of and disdain for the impostor who now lives in the White House.
Sounds like a plan to me. Let Glenn have Billy’s spot, give Billy Hannity’s seat & stick the-relatively-mediocre Hannity on the 5 o’clock spot.
“he picked the date and place to irritate blacks and others”
I think we can go to the Washington Monument pretty much any day we please without asking Al Sharpton’s, or some dipwad lefty’s permission.
Absolutely correct. Since when do Blacks have a monopoly on the Lincoln Memorial? And, I thought that MLK’s speech was aimed at all Americans, not just Blacks. Sharpton claims to be a reverend. How can he find anything in Beck’s message to complain about? Beck encouraged people to practice their faiths, believe in America, and championed MLK’s message. What’s not to like?
A quarter million-plus white men died in combat when Lincoln was commander in chief, and a whole bunch more from war-related causes, in large part so that slavery would be ended. No permission needed indeed.
Also, what is so special about the 47th anniversary? Right, nothing. Had it been the 50th, critics might have had a point, but in this case they have no such point at all.
I don’t think it would irritate the black population in general. It only irritates the whore mongering people like Sharpton because it upstages one of his racists rants and takes money out of his war chest.
. I would bet you dollars to doughnuts that a great majority of the blacks didn’t even know what the day was. I don’t mean that as a derogatory statement, just a fact. 50 year anniversary, i hope we can all join in..I doubt it though.
AirPhotosLive: a wholly-owned subsidiary of The Obama Corp.
Great article! Thanks.
Anybody else notice that almost everyone at GB’s rally was white? Kinda makes one ponder why minorites don’t seem to be welcome in the Tea Party.
“Kinda makes one ponder why minorites don’t seem to be welcome in the Tea Party.”
Really? Dr. Alveda King – the niece of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., spoke at event and wrote about it for the Christian Science Monitor. What makes it not welcoming to minorities?
I’m well aware that there are a select few minorities that speak at Tea Party rallies. My general point was, why don’t more minorities participate with the Tea Party movement. Minorities make up 1/3 of this country and yet in most cases they only seem to make up 1%-2% of the Tea Party. I’m white and that seems unwelcoming even to me.
My general point was, why don’t more minorities participate with the Tea Party movement.
Democrats have been in COMPLETE control of places like Chicago, Boston, Newark, New York and all the other liberal meccas for DECADES. Obviously the condition of black peoples in those cities has not improved one iota in those decades so you tell us, why do they still vote Democrat 90+%?
The Democrats elected from the cities that you named were not elected by a political movement or party that is 95% plus black but by all Americans from those cities.
And the answer is ….that monthly check, the free medical, schooling etcetcetc.
They are kept slaves to the almighty dollar. Affirmative action, why be the best when you can merely play on your skin color?…hell keep them dems in office and soon there will be no one left to pay the monthly dole.
I see the condition of the schools in these places, the children that are afraid to walk to school, much less go..and they still vote in the same crappy dems to office.. totally disgusting. total enslavement.
You feel unwelcome because you choose to be.
We are the most open and welcoming people you can find. We are grassroots Americans that are tired of the crap that the two political parties keep throwing out and hurting our republic.
Racists have painted this grassroots movement as unwelcoming because they are afraid that America is being represented by someone other than the left or the right.
Again if you feel unwelcome, you have chosen this feeling. Try being a real American and helping with not adding to the problems we have.
Anonymous
The “answers” you wrote about in your last comment were red herrings. All of the real and imagined issues that you complained about in your last comment do not just affect minorities. In case you are unaware, the majority of poor people in this country are white. As such, the majority of social assistance programs support white people.
As I’ve stated before, the Democratic party has many faults but to their credit they are welcoming to all Americans. The Tea Party on the other hand, only appears to be welcoming to white Americans.
Anne
My questions have not been about me but about why the Tea Party seems unwelcoming to minorities. I’m asking questions not making accusations.
If the Tea Party is the “the most open and welcoming people you can find”, then why does the Tea Party appear unwelcoming to minorities? If the Tea Party was 60% to 70% white, there would be no issue here. But when every time I attend a Tea Party rally or see a Tea Party rally in the news (including Fox) and those rallies are 98% or more white, that raises questions for me.
Once again this is not about how I feel but about how 1/3 of the country appears to feel. If these questions make you feel uncomfortable, you should ask yourself why.
Just because they don’t show up, doesn’t mean they are not welcomed, there is a difference. Of course, facts seem of little concern to you. See we want American to be synonymous with individual liberty, and we’d think that all minorities would want that. We eschew statism in favor of republicanism, small ‘r’, and we want draconian tax policies and endless grift to end. If minorities believe that message is not for them, one can only assume they desire cradle to grave entitlements paid for by people more hard working and entrepreneurial than themselves. Or, maybe, it’s the non-stop media blitz of portraying us as racist, and the useful dolts who post things like you’ve said who are contributing to the misunderstanding.
If you desire to live as an American, we don’t care what your skin color is.
Ok, so are you trying to suggest that the over 100 MILLION Americans that do not appear to support the Tea Party, are doing so because they reject conservativism in favor of statism? Seriously, that idea doesn’t even pass the laugh test. Almost all of my Latino friends have a strong work ethic, an ingrained entrepreneurial sprit, and superior family values. Correct me if I’m wrong but those are core conservative values. Most of my black friends are likewise very socially conservative. It would stand to reason that at the very least Blacks and Latinos should be attracted to the principals of the Tea Party but they don’t appear to be. Otherwise why is every Tea Party rally almost completely all white?
Furthermore, there is nothing I’ve written that is incorrect so it’s not possible for my statements to be misleading. The only misunderstanding here is with your failure to understand that actions speak louder that words. You can say that you don’t care about skin color but why do only white people appear to be supporting the Tea Party?
This is really silly. It is everybody’s choice to attend tea parties. Do you believe that we should go out and recruit blacks to join? In addition to other interests, the Tea party is a losely knit group with a collective interest in restoring the constitution to its proper place. If blacks lack these interests it would stand to reason that they are not going to participate. It is too bad really, it shows that they seem unaware of what is happening in the country today, or they don’t care. It all boils down to individual initiative and responsibility. Tea partiers are not nannies.
Yes it’s silly that you seem to believe that the problem is with the 1/3 of the country that is made up of minorities and not your political movement.
As a middle-age white male, I can’t answer your question, but I have a suggestion:
I would suggest asking your socially conservative Black and Latino friends why they didn’t attend the rally or don’t feel drawn to any of the Tea Party groups.
That being said, there is certainly enough vitriol and obfuscation on both sides of the political aisle to make anyone think twice about joining any political movement.
I agree that there is plenty of vitriol and obfuscation on both sides of the political aisle. However, I disagree with you that that should be a reason for refusing to participate in political movements. If anything, it should be a reason for supporting real Independents.
real american huh? you sound more like an IDIOT. there are a lot of blacks in the tea party. and in case you didn’t pay attentention which you didn’t al sharpton had his rally too. so of course the blacks were there ,
sharpton’s rally didn’t sound like a healing rally …more like a victimhood rally.
Gen. here’s a quote for you, see if you think it fits.
“There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs. There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who don’t want the patient to get well.”
Booker T. Washington (1856-1915) African American political leader, educator and author 1911.
I think if Mr. Washington were alive today he would have attended 8/28, don’t you?
Excellent quote. However, I think that the statement is true for both sides of this discussion.
As to your question, yes I think Mr. Washington probably would have attended and then wondered why in a city that is over 50% black, there weren’t any black people present.
who in hell cares if there were black people there or not? it was not a race rally.
Who did Sharpton invite? He made it a race thing.
Honor is not a black or white thing.
I don’t know why blacks in a city of so many were not the over riding race there..maybe they don’t want to restore honor..so go make something out of that.
Anne
Blacks are not the only minority that I’m referring too. But also Asians, Latinos, and Native Americans. It’s not just that almost no black people attended but that almost no minorities at all attended.
I agree that honor is not a black or white thing but when a movement becomes excusive to one ethnic group only (like the Nation of Islam), I question whether or not that is honorable.
What I’m asking here is why the Tea Party in general and GB’s rally in particular appears to have been attended by almost only white people.
Sharpton should have attended Beck’s rally (he was invited, according to what I have read), to see how unifying people is done. This is based of course on the assumption that Sharpton is into that. No evidence pointing that way though.
Agreed.
Perhaps but his really wasn’t made up of almost only one ethnic group.
My previous comment was for Gen. P. Malaise.
Childish insults only undermine your credibility. A more intelligence response would be to attempt to answer my question by demonstrating that GB’s rally was NOT attended by almost all white people. Unfortunately for you, Charlie Martin and Fox “News” have supplied photos and video that show otherwise.
My previous comment was for william.
Who says they are not welcome? If they chose not to attend a rally they were clearly welcome to attend, that is their choice. It has nothing to do with how “welcome” or not they may be.
I’m a white guy. Very obviously so. I am sure I’d be more than welcome to attend a Nation of Islam rally. Right?
The actions of the Tea Party appear be unwelcoming to minorities.
Whether or not you are welcome at a Nation of Islam rally would depend on if you support anti-Americanism and divisiveness or not. I don’t support those things so that’s why I do not attend NOI rallies.
what actions..specifically..
Specifically, that fact that Tea Party rallies appear to be attended by only white people.
I was there; you clearly were not. There were certainly black people at the Restoring Honor rally. Lie all you want, but the only thing that might be keeping blacks away from the tea parties and rallies like this one are the blacks themselves. No one else is doing so.
You can’t have it both ways. You can’t state on the one hand that “There were certainly black people at the Restoring Honor rally” and then state “the only thing that might be keeping blacks away from the tea parties and rallies like this one are the blacks themselves”.
Additionally, according to photos and video provided by Charlie Martin and Fox “News” the attendees were almost all white.
You can’t state on the one hand that “There were certainly black people at the Restoring Honor rally” and then state “the only thing that might be keeping blacks away from the tea parties and rallies like this one are the blacks themselves”.
Of course you can, don’t be silly. There’s nothing inconsistent about those statements.
Actually no, those statements are not just inconsistent their contradictory.
Child, you need to learn to understand the English language a bit better. There was nothing inconsistent or contradictory in what I said, and everybody but you seems to realize it. You’re just so tied to your delusions that you can’t understand plain facts.
Actually, I would suggest instead of making childish insults, you should try to better educate yourself. To begin with you should strive to achieve a better understanding of the English language. Your comments “There were certainly black people at the Restoring Honor rally” and “the only thing that might be keeping blacks away from the tea parties and rallies like this one are the blacks themselves” are contradictory and inconsistent. Your latter comment is an attempt to make an excuse for the absence of black participation in Tea Party rallies; yet your former statement states declaratively that black people were participating. If you are declaring that black people were present at the rally, why were you also attempting to make excuses for their absence?
Additionally, I would suggest educating yourself with Charlie Martin’s photos and video from Fox “News”. They show almost all white people attending the GB rally.
Actually Blacks are more than welcome at Tea Party rallies and some do come. Check out Lloyd Marcus’s accounts at American Thinker of his activities with the Tea Party. He has been the victim of some of the most vicious racist remarks, called the N word multiple times and NOT by Tea Party participants but by liberals who don’t like the idea of a conservative black person. In the minds of liberals you are not allowed to be conservative and black. The idea that they might lose their lock on the black vote scares the heck out of them.
I think most (if not all) minorities can think for themselves. If they supported the Tea Party, I would think that they would attend it’s rallies.
Statistically, the percentage of minorities at Tea Party events tracks very closely with their representation in the general population. There certainly is a greater percentage of minorities in the Tea Party than in the NYT newsroom.
Oops. Sorry, didn’t mean to introduce a fact. Hope it didn’t strain your brain.
How about this then: shove your tired old race card back where you got it, it’s not gonna work any more.
Waaaaaaaacist!!!!11!!eleventy!!!
Actually your “facts” are false. Minorities make 1/3 of the U.S. population. Photos and video supplied by Charlie Martin and Fox “News” show that almost all attendees to Tea Party rallies are white. Do you have any photos or video that demonstrate that those photos and video are false?
Well lets see… Blacks represent about 12 percent of the US population, and 95 percent of blacks voted Democrat in 2008. So 0.12 X 0.05 = 0.006 or 0.6 percent. Are you saying less than 0.6 percent of the audience was black?
Minorities make up 1/3 of the population. Nice try but I didn’t single out blacks. But since you brought the discussion here; are you going to suggest that half of the attendees to GB’s rally were black? That’s half of the population in DC.
Are you suggesting that the population at the rally were drawn largely from the District?
If so, you’re going to run into the problem that the total population of the District is only about 600,000.
If not, then this is a non sequitur.
Actually I wasn’t suggesting anything; I was asking questions. However, I was not as precise as I should have been in my last comment to you. Minorities make up 1/3 of the total U.S. population and half of the population of DC. I mentioned DC for an obvious reason (that’s where the rally was held). Don’t you think it’s strange that a political rally including hundreds of thousands of people had almost no minorities attending?
If yes, what does that suggest to you?
If not, can you explain why?
RA, I don’t accept your premise. It’s your perception that “almost no” minorities attended. Pass by, for the moment, the somewhat dweebish point that there were a lot of white males there, and white males are themselves a minority: you and I both know that what you mean is “protected groups who currently have political clout based on group identity and history”.
Nor is there much point in noting that your notion of who a “minority” is that counts seems curiously flexible: note the non-white leaders in the Tea Party Movement seem to count, and Tea Party women seem suddenly to stop being “minorities” for the purposes of you obsessive Ahab-like repetition.
Why? Because these are mere facts. You’ve made it clear that the issue in your mind is one of your perception. We can’t do anything about that: as they say, you can’t recover for someone else.
There weren’t an outstanding number of blacks at Sharpton’s rally. He had to bus them in from churchs in the area.
to me that suggests that blacks don’t show up on their own because they are not interested
Charlie Marin
If you don’t accept the premise that the GB rally was attended almost only by white people, then I would suggest that you take a closer look at the photos that YOU included with your article. And if that does not convince you, try watching the video coverage of Fox “News”.
Your point that white males are a minority is laughable. White people make up 2/3 of this country. Yes there are more women than men here but for the purposes of common sense, I’m not referring to men as a minority. In federal and state affirmative action programs, emphasis is placed on assisting minorities and women. The distinction is made because women are not a minority. What you do not seem to understand (because you didn’t ask but should be obvious) is that when I write about minorities, I’m referring to Latinos, Blacks, Asians, and Native Americans.
Additionally, your comment that “your notion of who a ‘minority’ is that counts seems curiously flexible” is completely false. I’ve been completely consistent in who I believe a minority is. I actually surprised that I should need to explain that to you since it’s such a simple matter of common sense. Honest debate requires that the individuals involved need to be honest. It would seem that you do not have an adult relationship with the truth.
Finally, on the issue of facts, I stated earlier that my observations were based on photos provided by YOU and video provided by Fox “News”. I asked you to provide photos and video that contradict that evidence if you can. So will you be able to do so?
Right…
Dr. Alveda King… is she white? Albert Pujols… is he white?
(Hint: they’re not!)
And what about all those ministers and rabbis present? Are they all “white”?
Oh, as a Puerto Rican woman with plenty of African ancestry… If I had attended that rally… would I have automatically become “white”, to please your stereotypes?
Get a life!
As I’ve stated earlier, I’m aware that a few minorities spoke at GB’s rally; my general question was, why are almost all Tea Party attendees white?
In answer to your question, no you would not be considered white. I said minorities. And I’m not stating any stereotypes at all. I’m stating observations and asking questions.
Hah. You’re stating leftist talking points and claiming they’re your own personal observations. They aren’t true, and anyone who bothers to check them can determine that for himself. Why would you think anyone would believe them just on your say-so?
Doug Loss
Actually I’m asking questions based on photos provided by Charlie Martin and video provided by Fox “News”.
C’mon Rev Al, now you’re just looking sad.
Agreed but now the “leaders” of the Tea Party appear to behaving just like ‘Rev Al’.
Why do you say those things – that is not true or do you just spew negativity every where you go? How do your justify your statement when you see African-Americans at TEA Parties?
Even you would be welcome at a TEA Party.
I justify my statements based on the photos and video supplied by Charlie Martin and Fox “News”.
“Real American” is not a real American but a bigot who judges people on the basis of their race.
I was at the Glenn Beck rally yesterday, and it was packed tight. I never got to the Lincoln Memorial and watched the events on a tv monitor. As for race” there were many Negroes up at the monument, not only a niece of Martin Luther King, Jr. but many clergy and entertainers. There were also some in the crowd.
I was at the Martin Luther King, Jr. Freedom March August 28, 1963. Most of the crowd, as I recall, were Negroes, dressed in their Sunday best, with some whites like me. So what? King was not a racist like “Real American” or Al Sharpton.
I think you just had a Freudian slip. Anyway, I’m not judging anyone on the basis of their skin. I’m asking questions about a movement’s lack of participation by minorities.
No you’re not, you’re endlessly repeating the same boring, stupid lies (starting with your bogus handle) and made up statistics. They don’t get better with repetition. Now go back to whatever has replaced JournoList for a new set of talking points.
We like our trolls to provide entertainment, not an endless loop of idiocy.
As I’ve stated to other posters, making childish insults only undermines your credibility. I’ve also stated that I’m not stating talking points but asking questions. As far as the stats that I’ve stated are concerned, they are based on photos by Charlie Martin and video by Fox “News”.
Uh-oh. Your massive ignorance of the facts is showing.
Ignorance of what? I’ve asked questions about observations I’ve made based on photos and video supplied by Charlie Martin and Fox “News”.
So Real American, what do you suggest that tea party do about the lack of blacks in its ranks? Go out and pay them to come and participate like the Dem party does when it needs the black vote? Last time I looked everybody is free to go to meetings if they have an interest. Meetings are advertised all over, on radio and the internet. Are you saying that the poor blacks have no access to these sources and that the government must step in and distribute radios and computers? Give us a break and take your observations elsewhere please.
Actually no, I’m not suggesting that the Tea Party should attempt to buy votes or pay for participation. What I am suggesting is that there is a reason that minorities do not support the Tea Party. I’m just asking why.
So what if they were all white. That only proves the racism of blacks against white people
Not at all, otherwise they would not be voting for the Democratic party; which is welcoming to all ethnic groups. Also blacks are only one minority group. You’re forgetting Asian, Latinos, and Native Americans. They don’t appear to be supporting the Tea Party of GB either.
That was a big crowd no matter how much anyone wants to play it down.
Thanks for all the angles and the photos. This is good journalism. Maybe Joe Klein should attend some classes with you folks.
To m, the salient thing about this rally was that Glenn Beck, an essentially nonpartisan commentator, organized it and fueled the enthusiasm of the attendees.
True, Beck approves of more Republican public figures than of Democrats — or perhaps we should say that he disapproves more of the Democrats. Nevertheless, he’s unsparing of anyone in public life who traduces the Constitution or who asserts privileges of “power above or beyond the laws” (Kipling). But he’s refrained from aligning himself with either party, and holds both of them responsible for the destruction of our Constitutional order.
If each of the attendees at his rally represents a larger number — perhaps 50 or 100 — of Americans who agree with him but couldn’t make it there, we’re looking at one damn big trend…one that’s likely to grow further.
Great post.
vivo, in typical liberal fashion you break down both respected events to race. Mighty ignorant/liberal o’ ya.
http://www.freedomslighthouse.com/2010/04/man-destroys-nbc-reporters-racial.html
Perhaps YOU should’ve attended either outing – for you are obviously an individual it is truly intended/directed to.
Reading your nonsensical rant, I’ll go out on a limb and assume you haven’t ANY Black friends. Perhaps little/no friends of differing races. Only one so sanctimonious can espouse such dribble. Then again you may be thee ‘great uniter’ of your community.. hahahaha
As for your religious dig – how ‘enlightening’. I didn’t realize you were educated in theology to make such bold observations.
vivo – stuck on stupid.
..actually the term is “full retard” vivo has gone full retard.
Sean Penn went full retard and never recovered.
Obviously a large crowd. Thanks for the photos, Charlie man. I wonder how large Al Sharpton’s group was?
I am not excited about crowd estimates. It always gets into this urination contest about whose number is largest and so forth. It’s borrrrrrrrring.
A nice alternative would be for someone to calibrate a set of high altitude photos like Charlie’s here and attach adjectives to each size crowd. E.g., get a set of historical photos all from the same vantage point, like the top of the Washington monument…
Ginormulous = Original MLK I Have a Dream, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:View_of_Crowd_at_1963_March_on_Washington.jpg
Ginormous = ??
Gigantic = ??
Enormous = ??
Humongotorious = ??
Humongous = ??
Huge = Charlie’s first photo
Massive = ??
Big = ??
Sharpton-like = http://www.life.com/image/81017708
Critical mass = http://terrencejennings.photoshelter.com/image/I0000SbVd3aT_0Kw
Esperanto convention = http://miahimnareto.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/leland_with_atlanta_esperantists.jpg
Rahm Emanuel Ethics Society = http://business.lovetoknow.com/wiki/images/Business/5/59/Empty_meeting_room.jpg
You could have a lot of fun with it, actually.
Cute!
Cute? I think that would go between Sharpton-like and Critical mass.
Another advantage is you could attach prefixes. E.g., semi-huge, which has the additional advantage of sounding understated.
Yes, this scale might just be the ticket.
I like it.
I don’t want to steal your idea, however. (He said, wondering how to file these serial numbers off undetectably….)
I’ve got it set up now, with preliminary scale settings,
http://bit.ly/ctdaTF
http://xcontra.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/crowd-size-at-d-c-mall-with-new-crowd-size-rating-scale
but there is some scale calibration that needs filling in at intermediate giganticness levels.
How about words for small? Teeny-weeny, and its variant, teensie-weensie, itty-bitty (itsie-bitsie), tee-niny tiny/teeny-tiny, and sub-micro, which spawns a host of scientific prefixes for all of the above.
Good thing the Tea Party Americans aren’t like the “New Black Panthers” or Cruddy Al’s crew would of been beaten to death with night sticks.
I was there and anything less than 400,000 to 500,000 is not realistic. While clearly it is very hard to even estimate the size of crowds you can delineate the dimensions. At 10 minutes to eleven when I arrived to the 17th street entrance people were so thick that even there almost one and a half miles from the speakers platform on the Lincoln Memorial that you couldn’t make progress toward the front of the reflecting pool. I spent almost two hours trying to fight my way along with thousands and thousands of other late arrivals to the front of the reflecting pool near the steps to the actual Lincoln Memorial. It was sardine to sardine, with no exageration for the entire way. The density estimate of the author is low, as is the number of people who are outside the photographs.
Lucky for us the actual number is actually not important. Everyone there was made aware that they are not alone in their concerns for our countries future. And while the propaganda media may be spinning the attendence numbers beyond all reasonable bounds, the incumbant political class know how many were actually there. They could feel them from the holes where they are currently cowering.
Glenn Beck’s big conservative rally in Washington dwarfed Al Sharpton’s King rally. Today’s Washington Post is up to its usual “journalistic” tricks.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/28/AR2010082801106.html?wpisrc=nl_headline
Beck doesn’t get Ayn Rand, even though he’s often talked about her approvingly on his show. There was a report in her novel, “Atlas Shrugged,” right after the Taggart Tunnel disaster and when the country was deteriorating rapidly into collapse and anarchy, about some group in California proclaiming a “back to God” movement that would allegedly solve the moral crisis. The Post article reported Beck as saying: “Something that is beyond man is happening America today begins to turn back to God.”
I never trusted Beck to stay on course. “God” was always trying to ooze out of his narrative. So, Obama and Congress are not the only ones following the playbook of “Atlas Shrugged” in recommending solutions to the crisis. The religious right also plays a role.
Then there’s the race card the liberals keep pulling from their sleeves. Comparing the Beck crowd with Al Sharpton’s, the Post thought it relevant to note: “The Beck crowd, meanwhile, was overwhelmingly white…” Ergo, goes the illogic, the crowd was composed mostly of racists and other really disgusting people. Anyone who opposes the federal government’s takeover of every little aspect of his life in an authoritarian regime, is to be dismissed as subhuman. Of course, it was okay for Sharpton’s crowd to be “overwhelmingly black.” No upbraiding there at all, no mention of Sharpton’s career of shouting “racist” every time someone looked at him the wrong way.
This crowd estimate article was, however, a very good call-out on the MSM.
Glenn Reynolds points out :
Related: A whole lot of people seem to be using the same phrase to describe this event. Must’ve gone out via whatever’s replaced JournoList . . . . .
check it out
http://news.google.com/news/search?pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&q=%22overwhelmingly+white%22&cf=all&scoring=n
(I posted on this earlier, guess I don’t fit in…)
Yap, I’m really demoralized now. It seemed that the Tea Party had a shot at a secular path, until yesterday. Beck & Palin are the rock stars of the TP movement, and now they just hijacked the essence of it, in the name of anti-reason. Bad as this is – and it is – I now am more worried that he will take Ayn Rand down in his cultural hole, ruining the gains made of late.
You are so very… concerned.
Repeat after me: there is not now, never was, and never will be any secular path to liberty.
Fool.
I am, by default, a “secular humanist,” or something. I’m also an agnostic. I see the big picture, and you should learn to do the same.
You want a free country, or an atheist dystopia?
agreed ..
there is no need to tie morality to religion.
As a point it is better that morality existed because that is how people choose to live not because an imaginary (or not imaginary, depending if you are on lithium or not) deity.
On Fox News last night, each guest gave their thoughtful remarks about Glenn Beck and the 8/28 Rally in Washington DC, then in stark contrast came the bitter little race-baiter. Poor old Al Sharpton seems so yesterday and out of step. I was embarrassed for him.
Nice to see Sharkton has a job again. I thought The Golfmaster was going to smooth everything over and put the race-baiters out of business.
oh come on, he can’t put the people that follow his every thought and dictate out of business.. wishful thinking
How terrific that so many people came together, on the anniversary of a once in a lifetime speech by a great American hero, Martin Luther King, Jr. Nothing that happened yesterday, or the 46 other August 28ths before, can dim the memory of or lessen the impact of “I Have a Dream”.
Just my view, Glenn Beck is an acquired taste. What I appreciate about him is he talks about ideas, founding principles, and encourages people to think for themselves. He loves this country and wants something better for all her citizens. And in that way, I see a similarity in the two men who have been compared often in the past couple of days.
“Brace for impact” indeed. Let’s get America back on track and get Americans working again.
One thing for sure, Beck did more in one day to explain Martin Luther King’s dream than all the race baiters, race hustlers, and those who seek to divide by race, have done in the 40 years since. And yes, that goes doubly for acting stupidly Obama.
And looking at Al Sharpton, he knows his race hustle job is in serious danger.
vivo – In typical liberal fashion you break down both respected events to ‘race’. Mighty ignorant/’liberal’ o’ ya.
Yep, an event explains the nation’s race dichotomy.. you’re not that bright, guy.
http://www.freedomslighthouse.com/2010/04/man-destroys-nbc-reporters-racial.html
Perhaps you should have attended either outing. You are obviously an individual its truly intended/directed to.
I’ll go out on a limb and assume you have few/no friends of Black lineage. Only one with such unfounded sanctimonious ramblings would write what you did. For if my friends of differing lineage had known my ignorant/limited view on the topic – I’d be alone too.
Lastly, your moronic, broad stroked religious comment – I didn’t realize you were an educated Theologian to come to such a conclusion.. cue the losers sound byte from ‘The Price is Right’ television show.
CHARLIE YOU’RE WRONG!!!
The New York Times stated that according to estimates there were approximately 300,000 people attending although organizers said it was more like 500,000. I couldn’t believe my eyes that the Times was actually fessing up to a well attended conservative event.
Wow, I’m wrong? That never happens. But you’re misquoting a tiny bit. Here’s what the NYT actually said:
So it’s not the Times estimating 300,000 to 500,000, it’s the Times quoting NBC News as estimating 300,000.
Which is frankly at least as astonishing.
But 300,000, given the limits of my source data as I mentioned about, is consistent with my 90 percent number and could even be consistent with my 75 percent number if you squint and hold your mouth right.
What is really astonishing here is that apparently, somehow, both sources felt the need to use a really realistic number. That popping noise you hear is Ruling Class heads exploding all over the Northeast.
It was clearly large enough to send a urine soaked tingle down the legs of the left.
Charlie, this is terrific! Thank you — I went from one media outlet to the next, and couldn’t find anyone providing an estimate other than highly subjective eyeballing. Great work!
I heard that Al Sharpton’s rally had about 2000 in attendence. Don’t look like the left is doing so well.
Crowd? Forget the crowd. More people would show up for a free Justin Beiber concert.
I thought we were going to see miracles. It was going to be a turning point for America . . . a defibrillator to the heart of America . . . the Woodstock of the next generation . . . “This will be a moment that people will remember for the rest of their lives . . . if you’e not there you will regret it for the rest of your life . . . You will see something on Saturday that has not happened in America for 228 years . . . it “may be the last time anybody’s going to be allowed to gather at the Lincoln Memorial . . . this is going to be something that you’ll never, ever experience any other time. . . . What is going to happen on 8-28 will be a miracle” . . . all because god told him so. I wonder if it was god who told him to hire Jessica Hahn as his radio show’s prize and weather bunny?
None of Beck’s promises happened. None of ‘em. Instead it was one long, boring, predictable homage to the marketability of extreme right wing celebrities.
That’s what happens when you get bamboozled by a carnival barker. “Come on in, ladies and gentlemen, and witness the shocking visage of Otis the Frog Boy – the amphibian misfortune. You’ll be shocked! You’ll be terrified! You’ll be grateful your god didn’t curse you with the slimy skin of a pond dweller! Enter this tent and you will be changed forever.”
The guy’s a conman, nothing more. And you’ve been conned. You’re just too proud and stubborn to admit it.
What does mean something to you? I’ve listened to you through a number of articles now, and haven’t noticed you saying anything about what your deep beliefs are. You only mock those of others.
It’s easy to disparage things. No matter what the thing is, it isn’t hard to affect a cynical attitude and claim that nothing is meaningful. According to you, this entire event, everyone in it, and everyone watching it, came to absolutely nothing (except what you see as the bad things about it).
So what are the things that are meaningful to you? Are there any? And how passionate do you feel about them? And how does that differ qualitatively from what others hold dear?
I see that “Betty” doth protest too much. Why are you in the least interested, Betty ? What are you trying to convince us of and isn’t it way too late anyway ? The horse done left the barn.
Glen Beck wouldn’t have as much appeal if the situation in this nation wasn’t so grave and the MSM took their journalistic doctrine seriously. They don’t, however, they decided to forego observation and reporting back to the nation of citizens in favour of becoming participants in the shaping of events. Unfortunately for them, we didn’t elect them to shape events, and find them incompetent-not to mention dishonest. Same goes for our educators.
Anyway, none of this is really about Glen Beck, the television personality. This is about us, Americans, who are dissatisfied with the direction this nation is taking and who seek fellowship with others whose sentiments are in agreement. I don’t think you can even imagine the crowd if everyone attended that would have liked to attend.
Glen Beck provided the place and the time, and he also raised 5.5 million for some of our troops in need. Overall, a very nice get-together for those whose sentiments were spoken to there. It was generous of him to provide this day and it was quite generous of the folks who took their time to speak.
Yeah, considering what an effort has been given to marginalising half the nation, it is a miracle of sorts to have any platform at all, and we are grateful to those who will listen.
Nonsense. You say, “The MSM . . . forego observation and reporting back to the nation of citizens in favour of becoming participants in the shaping of events.”
What do you think this was? It was a Fox News celebrity conjuring up an event. Pure ego. Pure agenda. Pure marketing.
I don’t have a problem with anyone’s beliefs. I have a problem with this:
NEWT’S EX-WIFE ON THE CONSERVATIVE MAJESTY THAT IS NEWT
At the same time that he was cheating on wife #2 (the woman he’d cheated with on wife #1) with wife #3, he was traveling around giving speeches about the importance of family values. And this didn’t bother him a bit:
“He believes that what he says in public and how he lives don’t have to be connected,” she says. “If you believe that, then yeah, you can run for president.” …
Early in May, she went out to Ohio for her mother’s birthday. A day and a half went by and Newt didn’t return her calls, which was strange. They always talked every day, often ten times a day, so she was frantic by the time he called to say he needed to talk to her.
“About what?”
He wanted to talk in person, he said.
“I said, ‘No, we need to talk now.’ ”
He went quiet.
“There’s somebody else, isn’t there?”
She kind of guessed it, of course. Women usually do. But did she know the woman was in her apartment, eating off her plates, sleeping in her bed?
She called a minister they both trusted. He came over to the house the next day and worked with them the whole weekend, but Gingrich just kept saying she was a Jaguar and all he wanted was a Chevrolet. ” ‘I can’t handle a Jaguar right now.’ He said that many times. ‘All I want is a Chevrolet.’ ”
He asked her to just tolerate the affair, an offer she refused.
He’d just returned from Erie, Pennsylvania, where he’d given a speech full of high sentiments about compassion and family values.
The next night, they sat talking out on their back patio in Georgia. She said, “How do you give that speech and do what you’re doing?”
“It doesn’t matter what I do,” he answered. “People need to hear what I have to say. There’s no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn’t matter what I live.”
Newt is Glenn is Sarah is Hannity is Limbaugh is Fox is Murdoch. All mouth. No principle. And so I mock them. They deserve nothing better.
Newt Gingrich ? C’mon. If Gingrich is talking about history or politics, then I won’t throw the baby out with the bath water.He might know some things on that score.
However, it is obvious his personal life has been a train wreck. Therefore I wouldn’t advise anyone to get marriage counseling from him. My guess is from the Tea Party folks I know, and other conservatives I associate with, his personal life does make a difference to them in that they demand a higher standard from our politicians and agree, with dissapointment, he shouldn’t be a spokesperson for family values.
The Tea Party folks have many concerns, and, yes, personal principles are among those concerns. I rather doubt he will ever be president.
And whatever occurred between Newt and his wife has nothing to do with the discussion about the size of the 8/28 rally. Or is that just a dead horse you beat regularly?
“I have a problem with this:”
Yeah, me too, and that’s why I don’t want guys like Newt Gingrich, FDR, Bill Clinton or the “sainted” Martin Luther King Jr. having power over me.
If they’ll screw their wives over to get what they want, then they sure won’t hesitate to screw me over to get what they want.
And, as for a Christian minister engaging in adultery…what a scumbag.
yeah, scum bags like John Edwards!! There is no intelligent answer as your premise is off kilter.
OK, I’m just going to assume by your inability to answer my question that you have nothing to say. In general.
1. I couldn’t give a crap about Newt’s marriage, I care about his legislative, economic and foreign policy abilities. I couldn’t care if our current President was doing the Tom Cruise couch jump every night over his wife, I care about the fact that he is hopelessly incompetent.
2. Did you vote for Bill Clinton? Did you oppose impeachment despite the fact that he was shtooping an intern? or perhaps despite the fact that he perjured himself?
right on Jack.
the country needs good fiscal policies and alfa males will do what alfa males do.
I am not condoning it but we should not let liberals use this feeble excuse for cannibalizing people who are good for the vast majority of the country.
you never see them use these arguments with their liberal friends.
conservative minded people have to stop letting the liberals misuse the language.
Weel, gee, Jack, I don’t know. Is shtooping a problem or not? You seem to think it’s fine for Newt but not for Clinton. Perjury? So you think Scooter Libby should be in prison?
Remember what Newt said, “People need to hear what I have to say. There’s no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn’t matter what I live.” You see, Jack, I have a problem with that. You don’t. That’s where we’re different.
what does newt have to do with beck’s rally? strawman.. you seem to protest everything.\
I don’t care what Newt has done..talk about clinton for a change and the blue dress, while in the highest office in our country.
There were many people that could not be at the rally, due to work etc..yet we are out here and will vote in November.. You might not hear us at this very moment and your little typing posts make you feel better..for a moment.
Come back when you are out of school, out of a job, out of money and tell us your big ideals/ideas.
Betty, if you feel that way about Newt, I suggest you not vote for him.
If he runs for something.
Betty, a great Teacher said “a miracle is a change in perception.”
If this is making the Times report realistic crowd estimates of a conservative rally, it may indeed be we saw a miracle yesterday.
Betty – an accurate description of Obama. Or are you saying that Beck is the new Obama? Beck is a very talkative TV personality. Er, um so is Obama. What’s your point again?
Boy, am I glad I’m not married to you!
“That’s what happens when you get bamboozled by a carnival barker…The guy’s a conman, nothing more. And you’ve been conned. You’re just too proud and stubborn to admit it.”
Are you talking about Obama?
Betty Blows?
“That’s what happens when you get bamboozled by a carnival barker.”
“…a conman, nothing more.”
And “A Real American”?
Sleazits. Nothing more. Tamed. Beaten. Bent. Modified Behavior.
“You don’t know what Kyber likes, only Kyber does.”
One thing in Atlas Shrugged was the absence of any religion. I love the overall message of the book but felt Rand ignored religion. Was she an atheist or agnostic?
Rand was a very vehement atheist, felt that the idea of God was inherently degrading to the dignity of humanity.
God hijacks tea party. That’s the take away for me, and I was pretty enthusiastic about the tea party – now, I regard this as the worst possible outcome.
You, too, seem very… concerned. Give it up, you are way too obvious.
Go easy, Louie. Myself, I find Egoist’s ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to his newsletter.
Dude. This rally was a subset of the Tea Party sentiment. It was not the Tea Party itself.
These people are your allies in the greater struggle. Stop sulking and threatening to stomp off.
Uh, where were the token whites at Sharptons event? Oh, right; He and the precedent want ethnic cleansing in America.
Ed Schultz spoke at Sharpton’s rally. Had to be a good time for all. /sarc
“A Real American”: Did you know that 95% of African-Americans voted for President Obama? Many were very proud that we now have a Black President.
How is that not racist? The voted for him because he was Black.
The tea party types are against his policies. Can you handle the difference? When conservative Blacks speak up for conservative causes they are roundly denounced by other Blacks as being “sell outs”. How is that not racist?
We didn’t have the problem of Black students excelling in school being denigrated with “acting White” until after forced school integration. How is the charge “acting White” not racist?
Clean up your act.
Yes I am aware of that. It’s not racist because those same black voters were not at the same time participating in a political movement that is 95% black or behaving in a manner that suggests that non-blacks are not welcome to support their candidate. The majority of the people who voted for President Obama were not black. The Democratic Party has many faults but behavior that appears unwelcoming to people based on the color of their skin is not one of those problems.
If the Tea Party is truly against President Obama just because of his policies, why aren’t any significant number of minorities sharing those views by attending Tea Party rallies?
You don’t even see how illogical you are. If 95% of blacks voted for Obama primarily because he was black, that’s by definition racist. End of story. If you don’t understand that, there’s no hope for you.
…those same black voters were not at the same time participating in a political movement that is 95% black or behaving in a manner that suggests that non-blacks are not welcome to support their candidate.
Oh, so you believe that the blacks that attended Al Sharptons event and Fat Al himself are all racists. Good to know.
nuts, get your facts straight. you are protesting all over this board and getting boring
Good post, Milwaukee. Hispanics and blacks become colorless the minute they turn conservative. Even Bill Cosby objected to the use of “acting white” when young blacks did well in school. Actually with the deterioration in the CA school system, it should be changed to “acting asian”.
No not so much. If you believe so, please show us photos or video that contradict Charlie Martin’s photos or Fox “News” video.
Why the difficulty in estimating numbers? Our media can look at photos & tell who the racists are, mind reading you see, and they see a lot of them. If they can do that numbers should be easy.
I think we are going to see quite a few “conservative” Democrats running for reelection this fall. Then afterwards the s—bags will vote for tax increases, possibly in a lame duck session. That’s the way filth operates.
I think you are ignorant.
Every human action has some context in political motivation. Whether it is (classic) politics or personal politics. (Our) government is not supposed to be doing the things it is doing. Only an idiot would argue that.
The ONLY way for Americans to regain their liberties is for us to take our intended place in control of an obviously out of control government. That place is telling government what it will do and what it won’t. We are the governed and it’s our consent that government requires to function.
The inclusion of “religion” as you so ignorantly put it, reconnecting with God is not a ‘religion’, is really a plea for a reconnection with morals and values common to all of human kind. Relative truth, morality and values have no place in society. They are rooted in lies, selfishness and denial.
I’ve lived over seas and I can tell you that no nation (I’ve lived in) has the appeal that this nation has when it comes to a place to live. No nation (I’ve lived in) has the collective attitude that Americans have. Both as citizens or as a collective body.
Your comment reflects a childish, almost infantile, selfishness and cowardice of the people in our country today. Where confronting the realities of human existentialism beyond personal desires becomes too much ‘work’ for the simple minded shutting down the avenue for potential human greatness and choosing the rocky cow path of individual pleasure, instead.
Life is a beautifully complex and fragile thing easily demeaned by a caviler denial of meaning beyond your next pipe full of dope. You aren’t just an animated pile of common chemical compounds. You are capable of creativity, love, complex thought, choice and constructive social interaction. And, as far as we know, the only such animal capable of all of these things at such a level ever to exist in the history of the known universe.
I’d say those are grounds for serious contemplation of responsible and worthy behaviors by those cognizant of the (potential) consequences, both long term and immediate, of simply making the wrong choice.
We aren’t here ‘all alone.’ We are here “all together.” And like it or not our individual actions have sociological impact of varying degrees on those around us and others we don’t even know. Coming together under one philosophy of social respect and responsibility is how this nation came to be the place it once was. We are coasting now, living off of the residuals and losing momentum. Team work got us here. Only team work can restart the engine. Without all of us being on the same page our team can not even compete.
I beg you to reconsider your conclusions. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. (UNCF).
I did a little research. The crowd at Beck’s looked a lot like the anti-war rally made famous by the Forest Gump movie so I researched and found that it was the 1971 April march on Washington. The WaPo pegged that one at over 200,000.
I walked along the Senate side–that is the right side if you face the Lincoln Memorial– of the rally around 11 and there were still hundreds of people pouring in. It’ hard to do crowd estimates, I’m sure, esp with so much movement, but I’d say it was easily between 200,000 and 300,000 and possibly more.
The black electorate and black leadership, considering their voting record and political affiliation made the decision decades ago that the Democrats were and are the political party that has their best interests at heart.One can hope that current levels of black literacy, the stability of the black family, incarceration and abortion rates, high school/college dropout and graduation rates are unfortunate aberrations and not the result of either legislation or policy of the Democrats. In any case, I’m certain that the rising global middle class will pause long enough to allow the Democrats to address these issues on behalf of black people and their aspirations.
Commenter Nickel (#13) makes two important contributions. An eye witness, he/ she states that at the same moment when the photos documented the crowd, that thousands of late arrivals were choking the entrances. The crowd was growing. And two, he/she states that there was great difficulty in moving through the crowd to gain a better view. The density given in the estimate, one person per ten square feet, is not very dense, one can easily walk through such a crowd, even avoiding the occasional bump, and “Excuse me”. It is common in large areas, with few people, perhaps lounging at the beach;there is a personal space issue. Consider the slow, packed shuffle leaving a football game, through the tunnels, that density is closer to one person per four square feet, walking is difficult, and you know you are in a crowd. Based on the article’s information, the crowd population could easily exceed 500,000, perhaps double that as a higher range estimate.
What can be concluded is that this was an historic event, a massive turn out on a policy issue. There are always counter demonstrations in large Washington events, but is it vital to check the reporting relative to both, considering each crowd’s size. And civility. It shows the objectivity of the reporting. Based on media reports, giving equal weight to both sides, I question if the counter demonstration was of comparable size. I noted the smiles at one podium and the anger at the other.
I pray for the day when we can elect leaders based, not on the “the color of their skin but by the content of their character”. “‘Restoring Honor” aligns with that dream.
I don’t really care about the left media’s distortions on crowd numbers much anymore. At this point the only ones they’re fooling is the left, and I don’t mind the enemy underestimating me and not understanding why they’re losing so badly.
Likewise with yet another assertion of racism. The race card here is getting pretty old. And anyone who thinks the tea parties are ‘overwhelmingly white’ has A. never attended one, and B. is in denial about the snow white nature of virtually every left wing protest or event ever held that was not specifically ethnic or racial in nature.
And that more to the point, the majority of the United States still is white, so any race-neutral mass gathering WOULD be “overwhelmingly” white.
Yes. But Tea Party rally attendees appear to be almost all white. Minorities make up 1/3 of the U.S. population, not the 1%-2% that you see present at Tea Party rallies.
What’s your point?
African Americans tend to be left wing. So what? Each to his own.
I agree that racism is bad, and I was shocked of the initial media reports of racism at the anti health care reform rally in Washington. Then when the dust settled, I started to look for some evidence of that racism, since I don’t trust the Media all that much. And I must say, I found none. I’ve looked extensively.
You make false accusations of racism. You base your accusations on nothing. And frankly I can’t think of anything more disgusting than that. If there is a hell, it is 100% certain that you will be going there. Falsely accusing people of something as heinous as racism is evil. And that makes you evil. And doing it with the help of insinuations does not make you any less evil.
JL
My “point” is that the Tea Party and GB’s rallies do not appear to be welcoming to minorities. I’m asking why.
Blacks are not the only minority. Asians, Latinos, and Native Americans also do not appear to support the Tea Party.
And I’m not making any accusations, I’m asking questions. Questions that are based on observations made of photos provided by Charlie Martin and video provided by Fox “News”. If those questions make you feel uncomfortable, you should ask yourself why.
I attended the original MLK rally in 1963 and many after that, including the “million man march” as well as the “restoring honor” rally yesterday.
the size of the crowd yesterday was more than twice that of MLK’s rally in 1963. It was bigger than the “million man march” and much larger than the Promise Keeper rally of 1997 which was enormous.
The racial composition of the rally was about as white as Sharpton’s was black.
What is impossible to see from the photographs are the many thousands who were under the trees to the south of the mall near the Lincoln memorial I’ve never seen so many people in that location at any rally.
the problem with estimating sizes is that crowd density close to the stage was probably twice that of those near the WWII memorial, but it was probably denser than one person per square meter on average.
These kind of things are always interesting depending on the crowds, but of the scores of people i talked to, the vast majority were from states far removed from DC, including people from Hawaii and the UK.
Rallies which orient themselves towards the “Great Men” memorials of Lincoln and those who fought in wars are always more interesting than those that orient themselves towards the petty men and their palace of dishonor in the Capitol.
Thanks, Jack. The “crowd polygon” I made includes the space under the trees, but as you say it doesn’t include people out of the picture, those who haven’t arrived yet, and so on. I’m certainly willing to believe the actual physical attendance was upward of 300,000; I’d start to get a bit shy by the time we get to 500,000. In any case, it’s was a big bunch of people.
Spot on evaluation. I was about half way down the reflecting pool and it was packed under the trees as far as I could see. And, the Parks Dept estimation of 10′ per person is waaaayyyy too generous. It was more like about 3′ per person.
Beck said at the beginning of the rally that the reflectin gpool holds abt. 200k and the grassy area south of it holds abt another 250-300k. If that’s the case, then to that you have to add the folks behind the stage actually on the stairs of the LM, the people under all the trees, all the people in the WWII Memorial, AND everyone btwn the WWI and Washington Monument. Combine all that you EASILY have 700k to a million people.
your estimate of “3′” per person, if I get your meaning, is nine square feet per person, very close to the assumed ten square feet per person.
You can see November from the Washington monument. These people will vote.
Commenter Nickel (# 13) provides two important facts. An eye witness, at the time of the photos were taken, he/ she states that late arrivals, by the thousands were pouring in. The crowd grew significantly. He/ she also states that moving through the existing crowd was most difficult, took hours. This addresses density. Walking through a crowd with an assumed density of one person per ten square feet is easy, you can make time and avoid the occasional bump and “Excuse me.” Personal space defines the spacing. However, consider leaving a football game, through the tunnels. Walking is difficult, timed by the bodies shuffling around you. That density is perhaps one person per 4 sq. ft. Considering these two observations, the crowd estimate, could be doubled, or more. Perhaps 500,000 to less than 1,000,000 attended.
By any measure, this event has become a major historic fact. It will rival MLK’s dream speech, and in my view, complement it. One sought an American leadership defined not “by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. …” The other seeks “Restoring Honor”. Both moved our social and political views on our polity.
America changed yesterday.
10ft^2 is close to 38×38. I’m 27″ wide, so that’s 11″/2 or 5.5″ to the border of my “turf”. As the neighbors have similar, that’s 11″ between our shoulders, assuming both the same size. That’s a pretty dense crowd.
.
Perhaps it would be better to assume hexagons, like marbles. That would give a little more room, but it’s still pretty tight.
Four square feet is 24″x24″, and that’s tighter than boot camp “nutz-to-buttz”. Nobody goes anywhere in that sort of crowd, and no one has room to fall down. Natural variation in crowd density means some are going to be even tighter, and dead of suffication.
I’d like to see the ratings for the C-Span coverage also.. I was watching this from home, live streamed on on facebook. When I logged on there were 84k+ (about 10:15 am) on line and at its peak (around 1:15 EST) there were 129K+ people watching it. I know of at least 3 other websites that were streaming it live… I’d like to see those numbers totaled into this just to see what the total amount of people across the country were watching.
On the Restoring Honor page on Facebook over 300,000 viewing if I remember correctly.
Mr. Martin;
Watch this space for when WMATA posts the August 24th ridership levels…particular attention to the rail ridership, since anyone with half a brain would park at a Metrorail stop and take the subway in.
http://www.wmata.com/rail/disruption_reports/viewReportArchive.cfm?Archive_Date=82010
It’s a pity that WMATA doesn’t make station data available,(although its a lead-pipe cinch that they do have this data set), since by tallying the number of exits at the corresponding times from the Smithsonian and the Federal Triangle stations…those closest to the event, we could get a better handle on how many people were down near the Mall.
A few things: 1. I was one of the people in the treed area. It was very hot and people flocked to the treed area. The treed area was more densely populated than the other area because people were flocking to the shade.
2. The reference by several media as it being a “mostly white” event is misleading. Since the ratio blacks in the general population is probably about 15% (I may be over or under that percentage as I have not gotten the specific percent) I would say, the event attendance was consistent with demographics for race.
3. Wasn’t Maritn Luther King all about “character rather than color of skin”? So why does Al Sharpton think he has claim to “everything Martin Luther” simply by the color of his (Sharpton’s)skin? Don’t you think Martin Luther would be happy to see a celebration of his life by a gathering of people of all skin colors? MLK is a piece of American History. I am American. So why can’t I embrace him too? Al Sharpton’s existence and notoriety is dependent on the continuation of racism, so he has a stake in making sure that racism continues to exist, or at least portraying it as such. This does not mean that racism does not exist, but rather we have moved beyond this in the general scheme of things. Sharpton misrepresents the extent of racism and also, racism works both ways. BTW, I am blonde and I have experienced stereotyping because of my hair color. Does this happen often? No. Do I use this as an excuse when things don’t go my way? No. I don’t want to trivialize race issues, but we need to move past this.
4. Many of the Guest Speakers in the Restoring Honor Rally were of different races. Two of the Speakers in the rally who actually got the most applause were black and hispanic. So why did multiple news media only talk about Glen Beck and Sarah Palin? Could it be that this whole rally was not consistent with their “liberal paradigm” and their reporting simply had to make it fit their agenda? I think the answer is obvious. I am sick of the mainstream media trying to make and twist news. Maybe that’s why Fox News has a much larger audience than all of the other networks combined. When will the mainstream news outlets wake up and start doing their job the way they are supposed to?
And by the way, don’t accuse me of being racist. My husband is black and we have a child together. We also have another child who we adpoted from foster care who is blond haired and blue eyes. We both love our children equally and we don’t care what color their skin or hair is. When will everyone else start doing the same?
I think it’s kinda funny all this media focus on the size of the crowd (particularly in their attempts to downplay the crowd’s size). Close to 100K were watching via FB, according to the numbers I saw on my computer screen). There is little doubt in my mind that had it been feasible for more people to have been there, they would have; I think their numbers are probably well into the 6 digits.
As for the rally, it was inspiring, uplifting, informative, entertaining, very well organized and carried off without a hitch. I cannot think of any credible criticism of it. I am convinced millions watched, counting those there and those who watched on FB and/or C-Span. The Obama administration and the Dems in Congress, with their policies, have stirred up a huge hornet’s nest; on November 2, they are gonna get stung but good.
I was in the trees to the left of the relecting pool – about 100 yrds from the speakers platform. We brought a balanket but had no room to spread it out – and stood for almost all the rally. The 10ft wide path on the left of the pool as you face the Lincoln memorial was packed solid – so the density under the trees was very high indeed. I couldn’t even see the jumbotrons – and had to just listen.
I watched CNN coverage Saturday night – wow – so far from reality. Is this the way it’s always been? That is frightening and depressing. This was a rally for truth,for honor – turning a nation back to God – as individuals. The old, stale tactics from the media – the dominant liberal established mass media – of labeling their opposition (when they are failing) as racist won’t work this time – God willing.
I figured C-Span would have run it again. Hopefully, Beck will provide it (for a price, of course) on DVD.
I am told that C-Span is re-airing it in its entirety on Monday. At least here in VT.
My husband and I were there, about 2/3 of the way back along the reflecting pool and I can assure you that the Park Service’s 10 square feet/person density did not apply. We were lucky to have 5 square feet — and we were so far back that we could barely see the outmost video screen. The crowd along the reflecting pool was densest under the trees, which would have to be figured in any fair assessment. Also, many of us were frustratingly delayed in arriving by the absolute jam at the metro stations. Only a photo taken between 12:30 and 1:00 would take in the real magnitude of the crowd.
The question here is about truthful reporting. CBS’s estimate of 87,000 confirms once again that ideology trumps truth in their organization. Does it really matter how many were there? It must if the media is trying so hard to downgrade the assessment. We went to add our voice for accountability for our tone deaf politicians.
Cindy, “10 square feet/person density did not apply. We were lucky to have 5 square feet” — that is starting to sound like the time my buddies Jon, Bruno and I rode the train into NYC for the 1976 Fourth of July celebration. Tall ships, Sloppy Louie’s, fireworks etc. We were way out in New Jersey on an inbound train, 25 miles from Manhattan, and there was already a sardine-like ratio of people per sq. foot of floor space. The conductor didn’t even bother with tickets — he couldn’t get through!
Cindy, you have to be careful with these numbers; sometimes they’re not very intuitive. In this case, 10 square feet per person means that each person has a square about 37 inches across to themselves. A normal-sized person is upward of 24 inches across and big guys like me can be 30 inches or more across. We’re talking about less than a foot from elbow to elbow.
Think about standing in a doorway: this is like having another person on each side of you where the door jamb ends.
We were only 6 inches shy of touching shoulder-to-shoulder, front-to-back — and remember we were 2/3 of the way back. Shifting from one spot to another was a HUGE ordeal as there were too many people in tight proximity any direction you might try to move. From speaking with folks on the metro on the way back, it was even that much more densely packed (shoulder to shoulder and no way to really move) between the video screens and the Lincoln Memorial. I know you’re trying to be conservative in estimates, but we’ve measured out 10, 5 and 2.5 square feet and have no doubt that we were in 5 or less while the folks down closer were likely in 2.5. If you assumed 10 square feet, you grossly underestimated.
Doesn’t matter.
By now EVERYONE knows the MSM has it in for any Conservative actions.
And EVERYONE knows the MSM AND the majority of Liberals have nothing but bitter hatred for all conservative political figures.
They don’t even try to conceal it anymore and everyone on the right and middle is clearly aware and repulsed by it.
Their days are numbered. Americans are sick of the Hate America First attitudes of the Left.
I am waiting to see photos of the area after the crowds left the GB Restoring Honor event. I’ll bet the grounds were pristine. (I’m holding my breath for MSM photos.)
I remember even MSM photos of the filth and litter left by those attending the Obama inauguration. It was a pitiful shame. Class, honor, and love of country are obvious. So is the opposite.
One truly pertinent indicator of the crowd’s impact is that felt by the area restaurants. You can bet that many of them did not brace for the influx of diners whose descent upon their establishments had quite a few of them working their fingers to the bone.
To add to the mix, consider this: The live streaming broadcast on the web of the event showed a max during it of about 150,000 viewers, but of course this is actually of computers connected–there could be more “bodies” in front of those monitors, as indeed there were two at my house. Then you’d have to add in the C-Span viewership, including the many reruns they’re still doing.
Thus if you have a max of 300k or so present, another (no pun intended conservative estimate) of another 300k in streaming computer/internet viewership, the C-span cume will certainly put it at well over 1 million people who were interested enough to tune in, watch, listen, and consider (as opposed to the naysaying nabobs who just watch to snipe and/or post amazingly childish crap in the live-feed’s chat and facebook dialogs simultaneous with the event.)
One more thing re WMTATA ridership–I heard that they did not increase their normal weekend schedule of one train per half hour resulting in many, many people arriving from suburban hotel and campground areas quite late to the event, so the only really fair measure or photo should be at least an hour or two into the 3 hour show. One might also count the busses parked at RFK and multiply by say 80% of their capacity for another statistic to put into the mix.
Here’s the big question though: Which will cause the most lefty loonyness and naysaying? A HUGE crowd they can point to as “those delusional lock-step Beck-booted teabagger dupes voting against their own self interest!” OR a small crowd to show that this event, which the left is working so hard to discredit, really wasn’t that big a deal after all? I’d say the lefties are damned if they do or don’t……but then, wasn’t that the whole point/subtext of this wonderfully spiritual event in the first place?
Next time, if there has to be a next time (are you listening, current and future KongressKritters?), pitchforks and torches should be required!
If the actual density is what the eye says the pix say, that it’s at least 50% greater than that Park Service guideline, in about half of the area Charlie has delineates, then the crowd size would be rather dramatically larger.
1.1 person per square meter is pretty loosely packed –any line you stand in, for movie tickets or to check out groceries (adjusted for the cart), is likely to be tighter than an arm’s length in all directions, which is about what 1.1 person/sq meter amounts to.
It goes without saying that a small error in this ratio, applied to each person as a fraction of the whole, will add up –literally –to a large error in the whole number. I don’t want to say a one-third error, but that could be defended, via these pix.
That said, it is true that Boot Hill is littered with Charlie Martin disputees, so there’s that, too.
I can assure you these picture do no justice for the size of the crowd. On the aerial picture, what you don’t see is all the thousands of people sitting under the trees. That big stand of trees on the far left (not those next to reflecting pool, which were also filled with people) was completely fill in with people sitting in the shade to the perimeter road and all the way back to the WWII memorial. I was there and was truly amazed at the size.
Y’know, it’s a nice thing to have a boat.
Just sayin’
This gives me more confidence about the aggregate “mood” of the country. In reading PJM, most of us would be politically informed and I’m not surprised by what I read. Harder to tell if the attitudes of the general populace are the same.
But if my neighborhood is any indicator, for the first time in many years, typically apolitical people are engaged – many the same ones that shrugged their shoulders in 2008 about “who cares” who gets elected. They care now.
And the message is consistently, “We’ve got to get rid of Obama and the rest of his ilk.”
Let’s shut some leftist mouths this November.
Amen brother, even out here on the left coast there is plenty of grumbling about O’Vomit’s lack of credibility and incompetence.
Mr.Martin,
The USA Today article on Park Service methodology that you link to gives an average crowd density of 1 person/5 SF and a packed crowd density of 1 person/2.5 SF. Where does your
packed crowd density of 1 person/10 SF come from? TIA.
Raymond Shaw is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful
human being I’ve ever known in my life.
Sorry, I don’t know why I said that. It just popped out.
Now now, be nice — he’s right. In the original pieces there was a step where I explained why I went up to 10 square feet a person; I remembered the figure, forgot to explain it. the update I just submitted goes into this in detail.
good one! sincerely yours, the Queen of Diamonds.
I knew someone out there would get the joke, and I’m glad you liked it, Ruth.
Ah, hell.
Idiocy. I absolutely remembered 10 square feet per person and didn’t check.
I’ve got an update coming shortly, I’ll re-do it.
The same estimate thing happened last year at the 9-12 Rally. We were there, we were jammed in like sardines as far as the eye could see and the media estimates were FAR less than realistic. Even Fox News was reluctant to report the true estimates. We will be there again this year, in just two weeks from today and I can’t wait!
Really? It will be interesting to see the turnout when Freedom Works and Fox News don’t promote the event. How many people do you predict will be there with you?
Betty, I think you’re absolutely right. If they hold a 9/12 rally with no news coverage and no publicity, then attendance will undoubtedly be reduced.
You’re right, Betty –very few people ever attend an event without first knowing that there is one.
What happened to ‘grassroots?”
We’re out here, Betty. Millions of us don’t attend rallies, but we talk to colleagues at work; we talk to our families; we email one another daily; etc. I’ve never been able to attend one of these rallies, but I support them totally. And I represent 20 adult voters in my immediate family. We out here, and we’re voting in November.
Not only is Betty Miss Informed, she’s not very thoughtful either.
This person’s default position seems to be to spout off opinions with no substance. E.g., How does she think Obama got elected? If the MSM hadn’t shilled for him 24/7/365, he’d still be entirely unknown (well, in a way, he still is) to the grassroots. Wouldn’t he, Betty?
lol ….betty or will you be morphing into some kind of jihad jane.
grass roots is exactly what this was.
these people weren’t bused in by the unions. (paid union people) theses people weren’t given lunch and ten bucks to attend.
REALLY WHAT IS YOUR POINT ? are you just out to demonize good people who truly care about the future of the country and of THEIR NIEGHBOUR ….even if that nieghbour is a fool like you ?
the P. stands for Pervasive
so if you had a party at your home and didn’t tell anyone…who do you think would show up? …duh.. you reach for straws and your statements are flawed.
Betty knows very little.
If anyone still thought the MSM were objective, this article should clear up that particular misconception. In addition to the various slanted/wrong reportage mentioned above, I would like to point out that (taxpayer supported)NPR’s morning coverage of the about-to-unfold event was remarkable in its sneering tone.
Oh, golly, you’re not kidding., I heard just the 10 second tease and found at least four things to which I objected stated as fact.
The 80,000-100,000 numbers are totally laughable. I was there. I’ve been to countless sporting events with crowds in that range and this was an another animal. I’d call it “5 Rose Bowls” without question!
From where I was, next to the WWII memorial (the circular pool with the fountains), I would say the density between the WWII memorial and the lincoln memorial was mostly shoulder to shoulder, which is much higher than 10 sq.ft per person. The density from the WWII memorial to the washington monument was at around that density. It is true that there were not many african-americans, but there were a surprising number of asian-americans.
Sharpton tries so hard to discriminate by color. He wants everyone identified by color.
The Beck rally, as shown on CSPAN, was a divierse group. I saw many blacks, plenty of hispanics, Italians, Persians. I certainly saw more races than I could readily identify.
At the Sharpton rally they were overwhelmingly one single race. And there were thousands more of that race at the Beck Rally than at Al’s but there were so many people they blended right in.
24. Betty Knows said . . .
‘Crowd? Forget the crowd. More people would show up for a free Justin Beiber concert.
‘I thought we were going to see miracles. It was going to be a turning point for America . . . a defibrillator to the heart of America . . . the Woodstock of the next generation . . . “This will be a moment that people will remember for the rest of their lives . . . if you’e not there you will regret it for the rest of your life . . . You will see something on Saturday that has not happened in America for 228 years . . . it “may be the last time anybody’s going to be allowed to gather at the Lincoln Memorial . . . this is going to be something that you’ll never, ever experience any other time. . . . What is going to happen on 8-28 will be a miracle” . . . all because god told him so. I wonder if it was god who told him to hire Jessica Hahn as his radio show’s prize and weather bunny?
‘None of Beck’s promises happened. None of ‘em. Instead it was one long, boring, predictable homage to the marketability of extreme right wing celebrities.
‘That’s what happens when you get bamboozled by a carnival barker. “Come on in, ladies and gentlemen, and witness the shocking visage of Otis the Frog Boy – the amphibian misfortune. You’ll be shocked! You’ll be terrified! You’ll be grateful your god didn’t curse you with the slimy skin of a pond dweller! Enter this tent and you will be changed forever.”
‘The guy’s a conman, nothing more. And you’ve been conned. You’re just too proud and stubborn to admit it.’
And 26. egoist said . . .
‘God hijacks tea party. That’s the take away for me, and I was pretty enthusiastic about the tea party – now, I regard this as the worst possible outcome.’
__________
I have to agree with both of you. It was very corny.
Newsflash: There are millions of patriotic–and yes, religious–Americans who don’t believe or literally believe in the bible or the Book of Mormon, or think of God as some Stern Man in the Sky dispensing miracles helter-skelter, or withholding them at whim, or cursing nations for not officially promoting His latest tome. And some of us can read and appreciate the Constitution without bursting into tears and beating our breasts.
Glen Beck may mean well, but he’s too much of a drama queen to be entirely credible.
He is best on radio, where he can be very funny, but dreadful on television. What I find most perplexing is his enthralled television studio audiences. Are these people retarded? Are they the same people who sat through Jimmy Swaggart’s dog-and-pony show and sacrificed their hard-earned money to his flim-flam?
I don’t think referring to Beck’s ‘celebrities’ as ‘right-wing’ is necessarily fair, however. ‘Untalented’ might be more accurate. How come these events always feature bad (usually country) singers, bad musicians, and bad music?
Beck claims to have found God ten years ago. Maybe God was hiding for a reason.
Maybe. But Beck found Him. And that’s one huge step from you.
Well, I think that they have a right to rally. But, complaining about the President isn’t an option. Republicans do what they want in office and complain continually and obstruct when they lose. It is ridiculous. I live in the midwest where they apparently can’t stand it that a in their words, not mine, were beaten by a black man, in so many words. This is the USA, and in the year 2010 we should be working for good. We were and still are in a mess. President Obama has done good things. He’s working hard every day. The previous President went to Crawford and played golf and built fence and went hunting while we were in a mess and did it alot. This President cannot catch a break in any direction. I actually think post Obama will give him at least a fair trial that the Tea Partier’s aren’t giving him now. Kids now in college can stay on their parents insurance. We’re winding down the war in Iraq and those people have to do their own stuff. I’m not against religion at all, but if they pray 5 times a day, they won’t be able to defend themselves at all. American’s do well to worship weekly. I think Glenn Beck is doing the best he can to stir up trouble. And, the more crap he can stir up the better he likes it. Certainly has messed up my family’s thinking!
What good things, pray tell, has Obama done? Withdrawal from Iraq? Too soon to tell what the impact that is going to have (albeit I never approved of the invasion in the first place but hey, if one is going to wage war, gotta plan on victory, period). On what basis have you concluded that Beck is stirring up ‘trouble’? Examples please. Did you watch yesterday’s rally? If not, do so at your earliest opportunity. Meantime, you can hardly speak of it with any decent modicum of credibility.
Ah, yes. Your family’s thinking has been messed up – it’s not like yours! Maybe it’s YOUR thinking that needs to be examined?
But, complaining about the President isn’t an option.
Oh, really?
Did you think that three years ago?
Is this “Poor Citizen” under a different name?
Well, I agree with you on one thing, anyway. Your thinking certainly is messed up!
You’re kidding right? You need to recheck those facts your throwin out there…
Sad to watch Glenn Beck hijack and dilute the Tea Party Movement. He is MSM disinformation and manipulation without a doubt.
Why would he plan a gathering on that PARTICULAR DAY?
Wake up people. Glenn Beck is NOT our friend. (Neither is Sharpton) They are both Corporate representatives.
Standing around in DC and holding signs is not the kind of revolution that this country needs right now.
Peace
Richard. On what basis do you make the accusation above? Did you watch the rally? Please indicate what ‘primrose path’ was laid down in order to lead everyone astray. You know, I really don’t care whether or not Beck comes from some ‘corporate’ interest. When he opens his mouth and speaks his mind, I like most of what I hear. I am sick unto death of these stinking elites from both sides of the aisle dictating to us what the hell they think is best for us when, for the most part, we all know for ourselves what is best. The Constitution is there for reasons other than that of being just a piece of paper to be dismissed out of hand as it is being done so on the part of the congressional majority and the current administration.
“Standing around in DC and holding signs is not the kind of revolution that this country needs right now. ”
===========
I saw flags, but not signs. You must have been watching the less-than-reverend Sharpton show.
I turned on C-SPAN to see what coverage was available but it was early afternoon here in the west and with the time difference I assume both rallies were over. They had Al Sharpton’s rally on and it may have been a rebroadcast by then. I watched the last 15-20 minutes of it including the end of his speech. He was comparing the progress made over the 47 years since the MLK speech. I loved the unintended self-parody in his line about how (I’m paraphrasing from memory here) “then we arrived in Washington riding in the back of the bus and today we flew here first class in the front of a jet”.
Heh-heh. I’m sure he flies first class everywhere.
Crowd size looked impressive as long as C-SPAN did its CCTV coverage of the event, zooming in and out from the fixed camera position to the podium. The crowd was shoulder to shoulder in the 50 to 100 feet between the camera and podium. Finally towards the end of the list of speakers the camera panned to the left and you could see that the podium appeared to be set up on the sidelines of a school football field and the crowd covered only about a quarter of the field. 2000 would be a generous estimate. And, of course, the crowd was “overwhelmingly” black.
““then we arrived in Washington riding in the back of the bus and today we flew here first class in the front of a jet”.” A freudian in the purest sense. Priceless.
Pat C hit the nail on the head. Things will be really tough for a long time. You have a large majority of Americans standing up to this government and you have a large group of the lame-stream media who won’t do there job. They are liars and can’t and won’t admit it. Thank God for Glenn Beck and all the peole there.
If you look at the aerial photos of both yesterday’s event and the March on Washington in 1963 (which reportedly drew 250,000), you will see that the 300,000-500,000 estimate is outrageous. There were clearly more people at the 1963 event. The 1963 crowd stretched all the way to the Washington Monument. Lots of green grass beyond the reflecting pool yesterday. However, there were not 163,000 more people at the March. Fox News reported that D.C. officials said that the area could hold “over 100,000.” The truth (as always) is somewhere between the estimates of the MSM and Fox News. Having looked at both photos side-by-side, I would say that Bill O’Reilly needs to give up his program (he predicted fewer than 100,000). My best guess is that yesterday’s event drew about 150,000.
Looking at the photos, note in the 1963 photo, there is a row of buildings to the left of the reflecting pool that are no longer there, replaced by a green full of people in yesterday’s photo.
I am so sick and tired of communism being labelled as atheism. They had an atheist agenda but they were not without faith. Their holy books are das Kapital and their prophet Marx.
Next, Hitler was NOT an atheist. Hitler was a Roman Catholic, okay? Deal with this. Many of the Nazi high command were nominally involved in a neo-Norse paganistic cult, but most went along with it because cooperating with the big guy (Himmler) was a fast track to authority and wealth
Iosif Stalin was originally trained as a Russian Orthodox priest. Why did not one mention that Robespierre replaced state atheism during the French Revolution with the cult of the Supreme Being?
The 110 million killed by socialism, both National and International, were killed in the name of Marx, not atheism. Socialism, unfettered, recognizes no loyalty beyond that to the Party.
Why do many university students end up as Marxists? Simple, they have never had their beliefs challenged; mommy and daddy were so afraid of wrecking blind STUPID faith, they never let little Billy or little Suzie have their precious faith tested. And, when up against someone who has been tested and are skilled at wrecking, the belief systems are smashed. Now Billy and Suzie still have a need to believe. And that void is filled by those with a vision, a vision of a utopia here and now. You bible-huggers getting this? You, by your actions of not allowing questioning, and demonizing possible allies, you set your kids up. Faith, whether in big daddy in the sky, spirit lands of your ancestors or economic in the hear and now, is the killer.
Lastly, atheism means ‘without god or gods’. That is all. It is not an economic system, it is not a political system, it is not even a social system. It is a statement. I am an atheist means I recognize no gods. What we do from there is on an individual basis. I am a moral, law abiding person and I am an atheist. Funny how many folks in prison have loads of faith and no morals.
Hitler was a pagan who believed in Norse deities and the hodgepodge of mythologies cobbled together by the Thule Society.
Then do tell us why Hitler persecuted the Roman Church? Hitler was a disciple of one Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche…and whatever Nietzsche was, it certainly wasn’t a Catholic.
I was there yesterday, in the field to the South of the reflecting pool near the mid field jumbotron screen. we were under the trees with a lot of other people to keep the kids in the shade. At least 5-6 ambulance calls came through with people appearing to have heat illness or other issues.
Our group of 3 familie– 6 adults, 7 kids–had a great time. It was inspiring and encouraged all of us, convicted us, to turn our hearts toward God, and learn. If we are to reestablish and restore honor in this nation, we must first awaken God in the churches, in the streets, in the government and cease with the compartmentalizing that has occurred over the last several decades.
Good journalism and lots of good comments. The bottom line is even MSM has to admit this was a huge croud that dwarfed the competition. Barry, Harry and Nancy will be choosing their words a bit more carefully in the days to come.
I went to this little gathering, with Mrs. B Dubya. Via 4 chartered buses, with 400 of our friends from Upstate NY.
The La Rouchies tried to crash the party, but we (I think I am speaking for the multitude here) ignored them. A lot of the fringe crazy, truther, conspiracy types hung on the fringes. We politely ignored them too. They did not choose to listen to the message of 8/28, which was only partially that offered by Beck and his speakers.
But CNN, ABC, and the other agitprop agencies of the current government didn’t. We fully expected that, and we were not disappointed.
We got there about 10 am, walked to the Lincoln Memorial from Foggy Bottom Metro. Here are some observations about the crowd density when we got there: You could not, by 11 am, get within 50 years of the Lincoln, or the reflecting pool, because of the density of the men, women, old and young, with an astonishing number of children present, that left no place to put your foot without stepping on someone. Nobody I saw was impolite and nobody ever told anyone not to walk through their little patch of that mall, but it was obvious that you could not get to the edge of the reflecting pool for the entire length. From the Lincoln Memorial, to the steps of the WWII Memorial, the People stood so densely that there was not even a foot between them.
You see the pictures taken from the top of the Washington Memorial at 11am. People were still arriving at 1pm.
This assembly of the People had a voice. I had never before heard that sound; when the crowd cheered, it was as one voice, higher in pitch than I would have thought, and joyous, all along the length of that one free place in dc, that ran from the Lincoln to the base of the Washington Monuments, and 150 yards on either side of the pool.
The acoustics were rather amazing. 400 yards from the speakers at the Lincoln, you couldn’t make out much, but on the slope above beyond the WWII memorial you could hear the speakers with absolute clarity. People who had camped overnight on the Lincoln Memorial steps could hear and see nothing, while those farthest away could. Providence? I rather think so.
Have you ever heard that many People recite the Pledge of Allegiance?
To those that hung on the fringes of this gathering and either attempted to highjack it or to use it as an opportunity to act out their own hate-filled and pathetic passion plays, I offer my deepest regrets that you did not see this gathering for what it was and is. You folks forge your own chains of bondage that no one but yourselves will ever wear. One day, to your shame and sorrow, we will forget that you were ever our countrymen.
Love of Country, to me and to the People with whom I shared the day yesterday, is not the tired thing of Europe. We honor our past, and we love the earth our nation occupies, but we treasure the happy liberty that we know is in our future more, if only we keep faith in the wisdom of our Founders and in the Providence that guided them.
Little vignettes of kindness and unreserved friendliness spin in my head still, from this day.
Again, for those of you to whom this experience is threatening, or who can’t understand what it is outside of the distorted mirror of your own projections, my deepest sympathy. For your loss and for the knowledge that we will neither miss nor remember you, our former countrymen.
You know, the running joke yesterday was how, even with the multitudes that we each could see were there, there was nobody in town.
“The bosom of America is open to receive not only the Opulent and respectable Stranger, but the oppressed and persecuted of all Nations and Religions; whom we shall welcome to a participation of all our rights and privileges, if by decency and propriety of conduct they appear to merit the enjoyment.
George Washington, Address to the Members of the Volunteer Association of Ireland, December 2, 1783″
Part of this quote is on display in the National Archives where the constitution and the bill of rights are enshrined; with a towering figure of GW looming above it all.
If “Barack” isn’t an American enough name, according to Beck, then Raj isn’t either. Born a hindu, I don’t belong to the people of the “book”. Unless of course you consider the constitution as the greatest little book. Nonetheless my “American”"ness” (as well as that of millions of “others”, including the non-crazy muslims) is sanctioned and approved by the man whose character is the foundation on which FREEDOM itself stands. Without GW there would BE no america; and without America there IS no freedom.
People like me don’t need venom-spewing exclusionist, exclusivist nobodies like Beck and Victor Hanson to certify just how American we are. Especially when they haven’t worn the uniform.
I voted for McCain/Palin (before I realized that Palin actually moved away from Hawaii because of “too many asians”). I’ll vote for Romney in 12. I’m fundamentally against statism of any sort.
But, if the republicans kow-tow (an “asian” word, excuse me) to demagogues like Beck, and/or run Palin again, I’m either going sit on the sidelines or probably vote for my fellow funny-first-named-American Barack. I exactly understand how the blacks feel.
Raj, you’re welcome here. But you’re not welcome to lie about people you disagree with, as you’re doing just now. Try to be a better person, would you?
Glad to have your Approval, Doug.
Lies about who (or is it whom 
)
O didn’t speak up when the crazies called a decorated serving officer,”betrayus”. Now, multiply that lack-of-class by a thousand and thats how tasteless Beck and Hanson are. I shouldn’t have lumped Palin in this crowd, as she doesn’t appear to be full of contempt for “others” or poverty . Maybe she was a little scared/prejudiced in her younger days. We all are.
You think Beck is a beacon of sanity , freedom, christian charity..WHAT? Calling a president racist is his idea of…WHAT? IF this is the general intemperate direction of the republicans/conservatives..forget 2012. Separation of Church and state is what Makes America..AMERICA. A 26 year old Pinckney brought up the idea of not requiring religious qualification for any public office… in 1787. Whats this we hear about America turning back to God and Jesus..in 2010? electing politicians based on whether they believe in Jesus as the savior? Yeah I “love” Jesus and I’d vote again for Bush or CHENEY. Bring back the good old days of respectable conservatism.
Also, I’d humbly accept your “right” to “welcome” me…IF (and only if) you have worn the uniform
obviously your “uniform” was too tight…:(
You scatter the points like falling dominoes……
The point is …let us get back to basics.
A. Do not spend more than you will ever have.
B. Stop lying and cheating
C. Compete fairly and honestly while not regulating
the U.S. out of business = more jobs.
That is a mainstream line of thinking not all of the division above.
“Beck attracted scores to Washington”
Here is an article from today’s “The Hill” (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/116249-beck-i-dont-think-im-electable) which bills itself as something of a trade paper for Congressmen and their staffs that is read all over Capitol Hill–about an interview with Glenn Beck done today on Fox News Sunday, one day after the Restoring Honor rally, in which the writer starts out with this sentence:
“Author and TV host Glenn Beck denied he has any aspirations of running for office during an interview on “Fox News Sunday” the day after his Restore Honor rally attracted scores to Washington.”
But, if you look further down the article it is noted that in this interview Beck estimated the crowd size as being between 300,000 and 600,000 people.
Funny thing about this thread.
The teabaggers and those who support them seem to revel in logical fallacies, but then they do that a lot. The racism of Beckot and his followers is amazing but more amazing is the denial by the rightwing of this overt racism.
They make lame comments about blacks and other minorities being welcome but they miss the truth that why would any minority support an overtly racist group like these tea baggers and their ilk.
That a few blacks were on the stage means nothing. The last election said about 2 percent of the republican votes came from black.
BUT the real questions as to amounts doesn’t seem to take into account ANGLE OF PHOTOGRAPHY.
A shot from directly above would be the only true way to make a more realistic estimate of the crowds. The right has always struggled to claim huge numbers when there is nothing to back it up.
You can take pictures from an angle and it will appear to have more items in it that a straight above shot. I am trying to think of an appropriate way to show it, but just about any photo you can take at home will show this. Take your lawn and remove a lot of the grass. From above it looks sparse. From the right angle though, it will look like there are more leaves than there really are.
So looking as closely as possible by copying the picture it appears there are areas where you can easily see the crowd is not as large as one might think.
Buzz, f you follow the links back to my previous crowd estimates, we covered that exact point. The estimates aren’t made by some count of the people visible; they’re made by applying known rules (from the Park Service) to the apparent area covered.
The approach I take is extremely conservative (heh). That is, I carefully arrange the estimates so all the likely sources of systematic error lead to under-estimation rather than over-estimation.
That said, I hjaven’t been in Solvang in years and years. Send me an aebelskiver pan.
For any group of compliant libwit yapping serfs, take a picture from a low-flying plane, and the brainpower seems sparse, at best.
But get down to the grass-top level, and take a picture there.
Oops, doesn’t work.
The smoke hides all the detail.
It is REALLY funny to see how many trolls have come out of their holes to comment here.
They never come out when the discussion is about precise facts (an administration not prosecuting the black panther thugs, calling the Police stupid, destroying the economy, creating a 14 TRILLIONS debt, supporting the jihadists who are behind the Ground Zero Mosque, threatening to prosecute any dissent, spending colossal amounts of money in months of holidays, etc. etc. etc. etc.).
Nope, they can’t say anything about any single fact.
But they come out to comment about Beck and his speech about God and America.
I didn’t know that the liberal trolls were interested in any of these two subjects, I thought they were only good at chanting praises for the mad mullahs and fidel castro.
Hey, trolls, next time maybe you should all go to listen to Beck, if you are so interested.
PS Of course they came out to speak because they are scared…the filo-jihadist and subversive administration DID wake up the giant and the giant is marching now…that’s pretty scary for the rats of the subversive MSM and the commie universities…
Trudy Sherman at #60, the Iraq war winding down has nothing to do with Obama; Bush signed an agreement to get out by a specific date which is now coming up. Obama and his Administration are pretending that this is their achievement. Funny, when things are bad, Obama blames Bush, but when things are good he takes all the credit, even when it was Bush’s doing. What a huckster.
Re: insurance. Twenty-Something adults should not be on their parents’ insurance. Insurance rates are going to skyrocket because of this ridiculous change, as those who actually pay for their insurance are going to picking up the tabs for those who don’t or who get subsidized versions. Employers are going to be firing employees left and right to hold down costs. And why should someone with a previously existing expensive health problem be able to foist it off on an insurance company, which will then hike everyone else’s premiums to cover it? If my house falls down, can I run to an insurance company and buy a policy after the fact that will make the company pay for rebuilding? What a deal (“I’ll give you a thousand; you give me several hundred thousand back. Where do I sign?”). There are a lot of people in the country–in this world–willing, anxious even, to dump their problems and expenses on everyone else. The crooked bailouts enabled Wall Street hucksters, real estate flippers and gamblers, and mortgage scammers to pass their trillion-dollar losses onto us. Where does it end?
I believe in national health care for those who want it, and are willing pay into the system whatever they can afford. But, I don’t believe everyone should be forced into a new system, or that anyone should get the benefits without having to contribute. National health care should be a voluntary option, not a requirement. Or, if IS mandatory, then it should be mandatory for everyone, including all politicians, judges, and their families, and preferential treatment for anyone should be a felony. Do you think Obama is going to wait five hours in an emergency room filled with gun-shot victims? Do you anybody who voted for his 2,000 page health care bill is going to?
From all I have heard including here, it seems that 300-500K is a reasonable ballpark, er, esplanade, figure.
It is impressive, for sure, that GB could get this many people to show up, but for what? Did the crowd get what it expected, wanted? Sharpton threw it out there last night on Fox that many would be disappointed. How about it; from those of you who were there or watched it, did you get what you wanted? Does it matter? There is no question that it must have been an amazing “happening”…but what happened? Call me Mr Jones on this one.
God, must we hear more about “god,” about getting on one’s subservient knees, about how America is allegedly a “Christian nation”? (Jefferson et al made sure it wasn’t, so we wouldn’t have anymore Salem Witch Trials or Inquisitions)
The Tea Party has pathetically become the “G” Party, steeped in the mystic primitivism of those who created their gods thousands of years ago out of understandable ignorance about the physics of the universe and a misunderstanding of rational consciousness (aka spirit), and a rational moral framework (please read Ayn Rand for clarity).
Until the Beck cabal understand that individual rights are based upon rationality and learn to be rational and reality-based, they will continue to insist on knee-bent subservience to God and Country. They will continue to lack the self-esteem necessary to say: “Stop ALL coercion of human beings, including taxation, regulation, redistribution schemes, government ownership of land, eminent domain, pointless wars, etc.”
They will continue to be just like the loathsome liberals in kind, if not in degree.
about how America is allegedly a “Christian nation”? (Jefferson et al made sure it wasn’t, so we wouldn’t have anymore Salem Witch Trials or Inquisitions)
You clearly know nothing about the founding of this nation or it’s history. This country was founded on the idea of God’s Law or Natural Law and that our rights are given to us by God. It’s right there in the Delcaration if Independence, “that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights”. I’ll give you a nice lollypop if you can now tell me who wrote that. Never mind, you dont know. IT WAS THOMAS JEFFERSON.
You can still win a lolly if you can tell me what the entire US constitution was based on. Nooo, sorry, it was not your atheistic belief system. See Nazi Germany or Communist USSR for that. It was based on the book of Deuteronomy.
Who printed the first Bibles in this country? Noo Sorry, it was the US congress.
Separation of Church and State? Nooo Sorry, He didn’t want the govt making it a criminal offense to express your religious beliefs that weren’t sanctioned by the state.
Read some here.
http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=JefVirg.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=17&division=div1
or here
http://www.religioustolerance.org/virg_bil.htm
If you want to cling to the notion that with country was founded on atheism, you need to go to HuffPo to peddle it. You’ll get called on it here.
What rally?
This is the worst in theaterical pursuits by these unpatriotic demagogues, Beck and Palin. They have NO coherent story to tell but only fragile emotions to stir. Fanning the false fires of overheated minds is one political opportunity too good to pass up. They do not really understand the complexities of the Constitutional law or economics, but only know how to manipulate dull minds with riveting propaganda. They do not comprehend the nuances of the fast paced world, but only to confuse their audience with fearful rhetoric. A sequel to Mein Kampf maybe? Sinclair Lewis said “when fascism comes to American it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.” I believe I saw someone doing just that at the rally. Sad, sad, sheeple. Duped into acting against their own interest yet again.
Fear and bitterness. Why is is it Praetorian that you feel the need to spew your babble?
how the f*@k can you explain what obama pelosi and reid have done when you describe beck and palin the way you have.
…or are you that incapable of understanding what your eyes see?
You’re losing and you’re scared. Gotcha.
The very best thing about Saturday’s rally? Watching lefties wet themselves with fear and loathing.
Praetorian, I think you’re being way too harsh. Most of those people really meant well, and do mean well, and the theme of restoring honor is a good one. We live in a world where there is none, and people lie incessantly.
However, by turning it into a Protestant/Mormon gush-fest, Beck showed himself to be hopelessly superstitious. I believe in the spirit and reincarnation and many things, but I do not believe in Daddy God or Mommy Goddess pulling strings and playing games, or in magical words (the Lord’s Prayer) and incantations (bible readings), or that the Constitution fell from Heaven. Note that most of the people who treat it as if it did tend also to believe this of the bible and/or the Book of Mormon. They are literalists and fundamentalists, and perhaps incapable of abstract thinking. This isn’t their fault, and we shouldn’t dislike them for it. But, I also don’t have to hang with them, and join hands in a multitude of causes.
The Democratic Party, comprised of hundreds of selfish-interest groups, not to mention almost every criminal, pornographer, and social outcast in America, is just too ridiculous to take seriously. But, the Republican Party, heavily comprised of jocks, hunters, bible-thumpers, and accountants is equally stupid. Sarah Palin doesn’t scare me; she’s beautiful and articulate. But, she shoots animals for fun (and food), which she could only do by treating them as unimportant life-forms in accordance with her religious thinking. A reasonable and rational person would see this is hair-splitting, since she is strictly opposed to abortion, even though those humans aborted are no more helpless, innocent, or pain-suffering than the animals she kills. Why is one suffering being (an animal) of no consequence but another (a human fetus) of infinite consequence? Even if she really believes animals don’t have souls (a popular claim among Jews, Christians, and Muslims) and humans do, this has no bearing whatsoever on the personal terror and suffering involved. And if animals don’t have souls, then needlessly killing them is infinitely worse.
But, it’s pointless to point this out to those entrenched in childhood thinking and the teachings of ancestors who were no better informed. There is nothing like tradition to keep people stuck, or the patina of an ancient teaching to prevent them from recognizing rubbish.
Don’t get angry or frustrated, because this is the norm, not the exception. Just do what I do and ignore it as much as possible. Beck is a ham, playing it up for his audiences, but nobody is forcing them to play along.
What is your hang-up with hunting?
Seems like a lot of commenters here—a fine lot of trolls and atheists, or is it atheist trolls? this thread has attracted–are worried about Beck and others invoking “God” at the Rally Saturday. My guess is that, given our rapidly declining church attendance rates, for many of those attending and watching, this was the perhaps the most lengthy discussion/event about “God’ (or even the first) that they have attended/witnessed for many a year; which I view as a good thing. That race-hustling charlatan, the Rev. Al Sharpton takes off his two thousand dollar suits and puts on his dog collar and invokes God all the time, but nobody seems to object when he does it, so why object when Beck and others did it yesterday.
I, for one, would like to see two timelines, one showing the progress of the aggressive Leftist/Atheist movement to take mention of, reference to, and invocations of God, the Ten Commandments, and the Bible out of the public square—in our schools, in the courts, on our public buildings, and, increasingly, in virtually all aspects of our daily lives– juxtaposed against a timeline for crime rates—murder, rape, armed robbery, assault and battery, assaults against children–and various other indicators of declining morality and fraying social cohesion like, say, for instance, divorce rates, out of wedlock birth rates, rates for drug and alcohol use, graduation rates for high schools, because I think one would see a direct correlation between the progress of removing God from the public square and increasing crime rates and decreasing social cohesion.
If doing as Beck and others have done yesterday can start to reverse the trend toward less social cohesion, I say, more power to them.
Of course the national network media will not give an accurate estimate. The 9/12 event last year was accurately reported by the BBC and they got their figures from the DCPD. So you know their estimate of 1.2 mil last year was accurate.
2010 9/12 event should surpass that number easily
Tens of thousands attended, but MILLIONS who wanted to be there but couldn’t for whatever reason were there in spirit.
The bottom line is the people are fed up, the shit just hit the fan and Washington knows it.
See ya’ll in NOVEMBER!
So the MSM, true to form, lies about attendance and downplays the size of the crowd.
I love it when the left pretends that if they don’t see a threat, then it doesn’t exist. Because it lulls to sleep all of the Code Pink / MoveOn lunatics who might optherwise respond with activity of their own. But the AP insists on instilling a false sense of security for them.
For all of the fear mongers and worry warts out there, Glen Beck does not have God’s ear but perhaps God has Glens ear. The point is anyone can hear God if they would only listen. If anyone wants to knnow the truth it is always available via the hot line of Jesus Christ. All one has to do is be serious about it and ask. If you want to defend your sin why not just compare yourself to His word and see how you stack up, pretty simple really is it not?
Are all men sinners? Yes. Is one sin greater than any other? Read His word. Many say they can’t believe those who represent Christianity because they are sinners too. Well then let the first one without sin throw the first rock, otehrwise shut the hell up and comtemplate your own life and get it right before you shout and spout your bull crap. Just remember God sides with those who side with Him not the other way around. The greatest hope we have here in this day is that His mercy triumphs over His judgement. Pray for these results. Any other result is not good for any of us, or would you rather just get what you deserve?
The number of attendees at the Beck Rally are just a fraction of those voters who will Restore Honor to America this November
“Anybody else notice that almost everyone at GB’s rally was white? Kinda makes one ponder why minorites don’t seem to be welcome in the Tea Party.”
Well, for one thing the event wasn’t a Tea Party function.
The purpose of the event was to honor American military personnel, to call for all Americans to unite under the principles of truth and integrity, and to drum up support (and dough) for a specific charity (SOWF) which helps wounded military people and their families.
Why ethnic minorities would think they would be unwelcome at such an event is a total mystery.
Why lefties would sneer at such an event is, of course, no mystery at all.
Ok, so are you suggesting that a rally that was promoted and organized by the various Tea Party organizations, supporters, and speakers and that had the their two biggest stars in attendance (Glen and Palin) was not a Tea Party event?
Gee, I’m amazed that you almost understood me when I said said the event wasn’t a Tea Party function.
Jump back Sherlock Holmes, a new deductive genius has arisen.
Your childish comments aside, I’ll take your last response as a yes. I wonder if most of the attendees at GB’s rally would consider that event a Tea Party event?
No, they wouldn’t. They all knew what it was going in, as you evidently didn’t and don’t. Don’t convince yourself that your ignorance is universal; it’s very specific to your small cohort.
Doug Loss
Did you speak to the hundreds of thousands of attendees? If you didn’t or haven’t read a credible poll stating otherwise, your not in position to know that. Speaking of ignorance, didn’t I catch you contradicting yourself in comment 7? If your ignorant of your own comments, how can you possible be knowledgeable of others?
Any estimates on the size of Sharptons crowd ?
Sharpton’s rally ( I refuse to call him “Reverend” since he never attended a day of Divinity School or even college) had a couple thousand at the high school and lost half of it on the way to the Mall.
The irony being that MLK’s rally in 1963 was much more integrated than those like Sharpton have assumed the leadership position. There were more minorities ( number and percentage) at Beck’s rally than there were whites at Sharpton’s.
Over and over the only thing the statists on this thread can say is that those who oppose them are bigots. It’s getting tired. Very tired. And millions of perfectly decent apolitical Americans are waking up to the ruse.
Btw, SOWF says they raised more than $5,000,000 yesterday. Not bad for a day’s work.
I bet America-hating, terrorist-loving lefties are really pissed about that one.
As a matter of fact, I know they aren’t happy about it, because I checked out a couple of left wing garbage dumps (aka websites), the New York Times and some open sewer called “Crooks and Liars” to see what the lefties were saying about the rally, and all they could talk about was how much they hated Beck and about how the people attending the rally looked like “the next Timothy McVeigh.”.
Not even a mention about the purpose of the rally, or about how SOWF picked up $5,000,000.
Real classy, lefties.
George Barrow once said the following: Next to the love of God, the love of country is the best preventive of crime. The crimes being perpetrated by the left wing liberals, progressives, freethinking tolerant until you disagree with them folks, who are quick to call any one who disagrees with them a bigot, extremist, counter-revolutionaries, and any other name.
I was one that could not be on site; therefore, I watched on C span and listened to Fox news, and the internet. We must remember that patriotism is determined by us to be sure that our country’s core meaning be righteous as well as strong. This group of destructive individuals must be voted out of office in November. Then the reconstruction can begin.
In America, the godless minority enjoys their unalienable rights just as believers do. These rights, as described in our founding documents, come from the Creator. Whether you believe the Creator to be Nature or God is irrelevant to the discussion. I’ll bet the ratio of believers to non-believers at the Beck rally reflected the general population just as the racial makeup of the TEA Party does.
Most people in America believe in God, and most of us are white. No mystery here. No hijacking, no subverting, no apologies…this is who we are, and we naturally influence all things due to our large numbers. We will be heard in November as never before, whether the godless join us or not.
How many people there see Beck like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSFCoT2et_s
The majority of Americans see him this way. That’s because Americans are smart and patriotic.
How many people see Beck like that? That would be people duped by Media Matters, not those who actually watch him or listen to his words…..in context.
“the majority of Americans see him this way.” I suppose you get that from MM also. Have them explain his ratings to you, while your at it, ask them why the tea party movement is polling so well. No way can you or are you speaking for the majority of Americans.
For your viewing pleasure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX7xjAs1UuA&feature=related
I was about 20 yards behind the second (jumbotron) TV on the North side of the reflecting pool underneath the trees. Personally, I was in about a 15 square feet area. This was because I was sitting in a chair. Most of the people I saw were standing up and were shoulder to shoulder. All of the side walks underneath the trees were solid bodies. There were rows of portatoilets which you cannot see that are under trees which took up some space. 87K? DREAM ON CBS news! LOL My estimation is between 300 and 400K. If you lib doubters don’t believe that I was there, call the Hyatt Regency. I stayed in room 237.
Oh Lawdy, Barack just got elected! I don’t gots to worry about nuttin’, my mortgage, gas in my car, shoes for all my kids all gone be taken care of by my Mr. Wonderful who ain’t no doubt gone be da greatest president ever did live. Or… maybe not!
So has anybody above pointed out the obvious – there is no way I’m gonna read through all the comments – namely it’s all so egotistical of Beck, the Glenn Beck rally? If this isn’t indicative of a Texas-sized ego I don’t know what is. This rally changed anything, are people better educated about the spiralling American debt, about dhimmitude, about govt waste, about business corruption? Thought not, but Beck’s ego got a big boost.
Beck called Geeert Wilders, the Churchill of Europe, a fascist. Beck is thus part of the problem, and a know-nothing dhimmi, just another faux conservative pretending to be tough, but he is utterly clueless where it counts, like most of his supporters and admirers.
Comment #94, with its attempt at an imitation of african-american dialect, as practiced in 19th-c. minstrel shows, gives a good idea of the level of malice and sheer stupidity in this discussion.
Second place goes to that great student of history among the commenters who attributes all the massacres of history to atheist Marxists. Yes, that certainly explains all those pre-20th c. massacres, doesn’t it? It was the Marxists, who didn’t exist yet, and the atheists, who were an infinitesmal minority, who did it all!
The utter ignorance of it all is really very depressing. Maybe it’s actually better if you stick to minstrel-show impressions of Obama. It’s more your speed.
Linda Jam: “Lets face facts- whites and blacks don’t like each other.”
You face some facts: Some blacks don’t like whites; some whites don’t like blacks. Your blanket statement is defied by the evidence, which these days shows better racial harmony than ever. Perhaps you should get out more.
79. Anonymous writes: “…the theme of restoring honor is a good one. We live in a world where there is none, and people lie incessantly.”
Yes, people lie incessantly, steal incessantly, cheat on their spouses incessantly…..the list goes on. That’s a problem. Indeed, many aspects of all religions smack of irrationality and are chock-full of fantastic things too hard to be taken seriously. Religious beliefs and faith in God (or a god or gods) do serve to drive people to do the right thing. This is a good thing.
Our country is starving for real, credible leadership; it has been wallowing in a fetid cesspool of corruption for far too long. People long to have a reason to be honest, faithful, eager to work, etc. You know, to do what is right.
it didn’t take the leftists/progressives long to drag out their tattered race card.
but they don’t seem to realize it isn’t accepted here …and there are less and less who will accept that card anymore. at least we can thank them for abusing the privilege.
White working and middle class people are the only ones who suffer wholesale institutionalized discrimination across the board in every American institution and yet they held out their hand to everyone yesterday.
It was beautiful to see the backbone of America act so unselfishly.
Yeah well, I’m pretty sure I’m gonna go with what the folks who have a bit more experience than Charlie Martin have come up with. Steve Doig, a journalist who specializes in data analysis, has professionally estimated crowds for years, including the Pope’s visit and Obama’s inauguration. In helping Airphotoslive estimate the size of the Beck crowd, he relied on something a little more accurate than screenshots of people’s snapshots and press photos, and was a LITTLE more detailed in his analysis than Charlie:
“To calculate it, I used Airphotoslive.com’s very striking images (MUCH larger than the thumbnail posted here) to make density estimates across different zones of the crowd; a variety of ground-level images from news photographers and attendees who posted their photos on Flickr; and Google Earth to measure the square footage of the different zones. Yes, I included the crowd areas under the trees; the full-size Airphotolive images were detailed enough to discern the edges of the crowd even there.”
http://stevedoig.com/
Oh and by the way, the Airphotoslive shots were taken at noon, estimated to be the height of the rally size.
Mr Martin,
As an engineer, I appreciate your technical analysis. I would like to point out an apparent flaw in your input data assumptions.
You mention that a dense crowd is 1.1 people per square meter (ppsm) according to the Park Service. According to the 20 Jan 2009 USA Today article that you linked to, the Park Service considers an average crowd to be 5 square feet per person (2.15 ppsm) and a dense crowd to be 2.5 square feet per person (4.31 ppsm). These paramters are also mentioned in this slate article: http://www.slate.com/id/2209407
Using those parameters the crowd was between 425,000 and 850,000; not counting the additonal areas that you noted in your piece that were not accounted for.
Impressive indeed.
John M @102:
Except that the expert you see quoted in the USA Today and Slate articles, Stephen Doig, is also the one who calculated the Beck crowd at 80-87,000. See my link @101.
In addition, Mr. Doig explained the standard crowd counting method in this 2008 article, shortly before he was to estimate the size of the crowd at the Obama inauguration:
“After gathering data on numerous demonstrations, Jacobs came up with some rules of thumb that still are used today by those serious about crowd estimation. A loose crowd, one where each person is an arm’s length from the body of his or her nearest neighbors, needs 10 square feet per person. A more tightly packed crowd fills 4.5 square feet per person. A truly scary mob of mosh-pit density would get about 2.5 square feet per person.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28662672/
An adult standing up takes up about two square feet of space. That means a person in a crowd yielding 4.5 square feet of space per person would only have a little over 7″ of space surrounding him or her. Even if you didn’t count the body mass in that 4.5 square feet, it would mean each person only had 13.5″ of space surrounding him or her.
A crowd that averages 10 square feet per person would yield about two feet of space around each person.
Looking at some of the high-resolution pictures of the Beck crowd, including all the large patches of grass and the many people sitting on blankets and lawn chairs, it is clear that the average space around each individual would yield something closer to the 10 square foot per person density.
Two things are clear from the rally and from the extensive comments in this section.
1. There is an extremely stark difference of opinion in the country. Most hate everything that Obama has done and want to undo it all. A few think it’s the greatest regime of all time. That is entirely consistent with all recent polls and elections, which are overwhelmingly against the Marxist agenda, while a shrinking fringe of kooks hangs onto their love affair with the radical with no past.
2. Millions of the former group are mad as hell at what has happened and willing to invest a lot of time and trouble to do something about it.
The Moron won the presidency by stealth. He lied about himself and his agenda. Now the people who care about the country and their children’s future are fully aware of it, and we are justifiably angry.
If the Tea Party movement doesn’t change these conditions in a dramatic way, more than the conditions are going to change, and in a more than dramatic way.
The Metro numbers are up, there was an increased ridership of about 200,000 compared to other typical Saturdays, divide by two for inbound and outbound and you get 100k alone who rode the train. There were two major sporting events that day and a couple smaller rallies, so you need to figure how many drove and didn’t ride Metro. 1100 buses were there and most of those parked at Union station which also ends up being 60-100k number for a 60-100 seat bus. But, that does not count anyone who drove or car pooled.
Have to be careful with the density numbers, if this is the number that park services typically uses and ends up being low for 828, that just means that they under counted every other event they used that number for as well.
Peg @104:
“The Metro numbers are up, there was an increased ridership of about 200,000 compared to other typical Saturdays … .”
Links please?
The Metro website currently only has ridership numbers through August 26.
None of these pictures show the people PACKED under the trees. It was a coveted spot, as the sun was hot and trees are obviously shady.
That was my comment as well. I was one of those seeking SHADE under those trees, crammed shoulder to shoulder.
None of the photos on this page show that. But the people commissioned by CBS to take aerial pictures and make a crowd estimate sure had some that did. See my comment @101.
Looking forward to your estimate when you DO include the Wash Mon. and WW II mem. I am sure you are closer than the others but see if you can get the 12:30 photos when Glenn was trying to speak the lawn in front of the Washington Monument was full then this is clearly a cropped photo
To quantifiably refute the false reports being peddled by MSM on the attendace at the Restoring Honor rally, take a look at the scaling device provided here.
You said the park district figures 10 sq ft per person for densely populated crowd, but the article you linked to park andistric estimates says 2.5 sq ft per person. You need to multiply your numbers times 4!
2.5 sq ft per person is the calculation used for the densest possible crowd – shoulder to shoulder density.
Think of how much space a folding chair takes up. If the entire area at the Beck rally were filled with folding chairs, you would have had to fit two people to a chair to arrive at a 2.5 sq ft per person ratio,
I saw, on Saturday afternoon, a CNN report that featured helicopter vid from those annoying media helos that kept circling and blotting out speakers with their noise.
In the CNN helo video, the crowd was DENSE all the way back to the Wash. Mon. and split off the sides of it even farther back.
In every pic and vid I’ve seen on the web being analyzed, there are still people who haven’t shown up yet. If you get video from later, toward 1 pm, you will see much more density, much further back. I am convinced it was a million people.
But that clip has not been shown since, as far as I can tell. I think the MSM had an attack of common sense, and sorted through their clips to filter out the ones which showed the largest crowd. Yes, FOX INCLUDED.
The traditional estimates of density assume people of normal girth and standing. The Beck-heads are mostly older and fatter, and for that reason many brought chairs or otherwise sat, as can be seen from the many videos online. So, if anything, the estimates would be at the lower end of the range.
Charlie, you mentioned that the park service considers a “dense crowd” to be about 10 sq. feet per person, but the article you link to about the Inauguration crowd has a quote from someone named Barna (horrible editing they took out the reference of who this person is) who said that an average density is 1 person for 5 sq. feet and tightly packed is 2.5 sq. feet. Using these numbers (and your area measurement) since we at least have a name attached for the source, the crowd was more likely between 400,000 and 800,000. Thus the people estimating 500,000 to 600,000 should be right in the ballpark. These higher density numbers make sense to me for a standing crowd since 10 sq. feet per person is approximately 3 ft. X 3 ft. which is a lot of room between people.
You forget to account for body mass, which is usually about 2 square feet. So 5 sq ft per person would give someone just 9″ on each side. That is the sort of density you would get if people were sitting in chairs arranged arm to arm at a concert or similar event. Not an event where people are spread out on lawn chairs and blankets with lots of green grass in between.
Charlie,
Your estimate of the crowd size is based upon the area where you say the crowd was, but you don’t provide the boundries of that area. Your calculation is based on an area of 197K sq meters, but it seems to me that the area was actually only about 130K sq meters. In coming up with that figure, I assumed that the area extended 400 feet to the north of the Reflecting Pond, and 320 feet to the south, for the length of the pond (2000 feet). Using the same density estimate, my calculation of the crowd in that area (it doesn’t include those east of the Reflecting Pond near the Washington Monument) is a maximum of 143K. All of the photos that I have seen, including those posted by those who claim that the crowd exceeded 500K, show a lot of area where the crowd clearly was not that densely packed, and undoubtedly some small areas the crowd was more densely packed. But even adding the people who were not in the areas adjacent to the reflecting pond, the AirPhotosLive estimate published by CBS News seems to be much closer to the true size of the crowd than those which suggest that the crowd exceeded 200K.
By the way, this is the first time I have ever visited this website, and I am impressed that the level of discourse here is generally much higher and more civil than on other websites addressing political issues.
Not only that, but the Airphotoslive people examined the crowd section by section, using blown up, high-resolution aerial photos taken at the height of the rally. Among other things.
See stevedoig.com for more.
The Numbers Game and Glenn Beck’s Restoring Honor Rally
The results are in on Saturday’s Restoring Honor rally in Washington and the news isn’t good for the news media.
The MSM seem to become arithmetically-challenged when it comes to counting heads at conservative gatherings or, dare I suggest, once again biased against reporting the truth at those get-togethers for the purpose of slanting their reporting.
It happened just over a year ago at the 2009 “9/12 Project’s” March on Washington organized by former Repubican Rep. Dick Armey, the Freedom Works Foundation, and Glenn Beck which drew upwards of a million participants to D.C. The mainstream media reported that thousands and upwards of 100,000 were in attendance.
Now, that’s a highly significant undercount especially since hundreds of pictures clearly revealed that the crowds were far more massive than “thousands” or even a paltry hundred thousand.
Why the liberal mainstream media feel compelled to lie and distort attendance numbers, inflating liberal rally figures and deflating conservative turn-outs, is no mystery.
That compulsion and that distortion are rooted in a deep-seated insecurity as to the honesty and validity of their leftist beliefs but, even worse, they reflect a contempt for the integrity of their journalistic profession and a total disregard for their ethical responsibilities.
It happened again at the Beck non-partisan Restoring Honor rally last Saturday which by happenstance took place on the 47th anniversary of Martin Luther King’s memorable “I Have a Dream” speech and at the same venue of that address, the Lincoln Memorial.
CBS estimated the crowd at 83,000, ABC at “more than 100,000,” NBC said, “tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands, the Associated Press described a ”sea of people standing shoulder to shoulder” as a crowd numbering “tens of thousands.” Beck and special guest Sarah Palin guessed anywhere from 300,000 to 600,000 and Rep. Michelle Bachman a cool million: http://tiny.cc/zthma
(Read more at http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=1874)
Actually, CBS estimated the crowd size at 87,000 with a margin of error of 9,000 either way – not 83,000.
And unlike Beck or Palin’s “guesses” or Bachman’s outright delusion, CBS actually based its estimate on scientific methods:
~~~~To calculate attendance at the Beck rally, AirPhotosLive.com used what is called a surveillance aerostat balloon to take pictures from both above the event and closer to the ground. In the video above, which was provided by the company, you can see some of the images used to come up with a figure.
The balloon, Westergard said, gave the company the capacity to move up and down, allowing it to photograph people who were standing beneath trees in addition to taking photos from high above.
“We took a lot of shots under the trees and higher up by just changing the balloon altitude,” he said. “So what might have been a negative with an airplane and certainly a negative with a satellite was a very strong position with a balloon.”
Though there was restricted airspace on the south side of the reflecting pool, airspace was not restricted where the crowd was gathered, allowing the company to position the balloon in “the very center of the crowd – dead in the middle of it,” Westergard said.
The photos were taken at noon, which Beck’s representatives suggested would be the peak of the event, which ran from 10 AM to slightly after 1 PM. Taking the pictures then meant counting both those who were late to the event because of subway or traffic delays and those who left early to avoid the crowds afterward.
The company generated its own estimate and asked Doig to separately one on his own. Though Doig and AirPhotosLive.com employ slightly different methodologies, both use a method that involves laying grids over the high-resolution images and counting the density per unit of each grid cell. Westergard provided the image below to help show how the estimates are made. It’s of a Tea Party Express event on April 15th that the company calculated attracted 4,436 people.
Doig estimated that there were 80,000 people at the “Restoring Honor” rally, while AirPhotosLive.com estimated that there were 87,000 people, a statistically insignificant different since the margin of error was 9,000. CBS News elected to use the higher estimate.
[ . . .]
On his Fox News show, Beck used an Associated Press photo taken from the Washington Monument to support his claim that there were at least 500,000 people at the event. He said that, looking at the photo, it was obvious that a nearly mile-long area was nearly completely filled with people, evidence that the CBS News-commissioned estimate was far too low.
But Westergard said it’s a mistake to try to count crowds that way, and noted, as you can see in the video above, that people bunched in front of jumbo-trons and did not tightly fill out the entire area.
“You really have to have a position overhead to count it well, and if you use a very oblique angle from the top of the Washington Monument, the sparse areas – and there were many because of people with blankets and chairs – tend to look more dense because you’re looking at it from the edge,” he said. “We instead are looking at it from above. And that perspective is essential. Anything less than that is sort of like guessing how many people are in a line by just looking at them through a doorway, for example.” ~~~~~
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20015214-503544.html
“Now, as I was completing this piece, CBS News released its own estimate, based, it said, on an estimate they commissioned by AirPhotosLive.com. ”
CBS hired AirPhotosLive to take the photos. The analysis was done by Steve Doig, the guy who (using the same methodology) estimated the crowd at the Obama inauguration at 800,000.
(See http://stevedoig.com/archives/250)
So your methodology produces about 2.5 as many people as Doig’s.
Hmmm. Two million people at the inauguration? Why do I have my doubts?
And Doig and Airphotolive’s methodology, unlike Charlie Martin’s, involved working off of enlarged high-resolution pictures taken directly over the crowd, section by section, grid by grid (see article linked @113). Not looking at photos taken from an oblique angle at a distance and then working off an arbitrary “average” space per person for a crowd that included pockets of density and pockets that included large areas of empty space.
Well, sources other than Mr. Doig were happy to report 1.8M for the Presidential inauguration of President Obama.
So try google and see the other crowd estimates for Jan. 20, 2009
Those reports were based on the Joint Command Center’s estimate of 1.8 million people on the Mall for the ceremony AND on the streets and at the parade following. Many, many people could not make it to the Mall because of the crowds…Google the stories about the thousands of people stuck in the tunnels on the way to the ceremony, for instance.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/21/AR2009012103884.html
Finally, the satellite images of the crowd on the Mall were taken 15 minutes before the ceremony was scheduled to begin, while people were still trying to make their way to the area.
In any case, the discrepancy between the 800,000 Mall count (Doig) and 1,000,000 Mall count (Joint Command) is 25%. The Airphotoslive Beck estimate allows for a margin of just under 10% – in addition it was calculated by two different parties using two different methods. All estimates have some margin for error or disagreement, but I know of none that are based on objective scientific methodology that allow for a discrepancy of 326% (Beck’s estimate).
IF YOU LIKE THIS VIDEO PASS IT ON
I went to the 1963 March on Washington. When I saw the last summers “Restoring Honor” gathering abusing the memory of Martin Luther King I wrote the song “Bus Ride To Washington” You can view it by clicking on the url or following this address. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_slIO8CxDw
Americans need to wake up the fact that Beck is simply another opinion pushing charlatan who is a product of mormon cult theology that he mixes with parts of Catholicism and his personal core as a dry alcoholic. And for the record, he is a Mormon and not a Christian. The two are not the same. The religion of Islam has more in common with Christianity than the mormon cult.
The truth about Beck is that he a dry mormon alcoholic who never got the counseling required for alcoholics. Because he does not possess a single ounce of journalistic integrity, he is the perfect abortion poster child for Fox Network. Considering the fact that Becks personal views are extreme Marxist Libertarian, his form of patriotism is false and he is a person who has no real substance or depth.
Glenn Beck consistently demonstrates all the unstable behaviors of a dry alcoholic which include grandiosity, judgmentalism, intolerance, impulsivity, ADD and indecisiveness. In short, Beck, Limbaugh, O Reilly, Hannity, Palin, O Donnell and others like them frequently pervert truth, history, facts and the US Constitution when they open their big mouths. Beck is simply part of a national league of pseudo-conservative idiots.
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