Girlfriends, Let’s Talk About How to Convert a Democrat
Think movie scene: a restaurant anywhere in America. A group of five female friends are sitting around talking — three are Democrats, two are Republicans. At a table with no salt shaker and a Michelle Obama-approved menu, the Democrats’ conversation starts like this:
Can you believe the Republicans are taking away our contraception?
This dialogue quickly deteriorates into a misinformed, Obama-fueled fiasco: the wicked “one percent,” the “fairness” of free health care, equal outcomes rather than equal opportunities, etc.
The Republican women look at each other with an unspoken, secret “OMG,” yet they do what conservatives do best: remain conservative. As the Democrat women ramble on about the inequality and wickedness of America — taking no heed that anyone else at the table could possibly disagree with them — the conservative women remain silent.
They do not enter the fray because they know the risks. They know that the Democrats, not able to defend their wiles with wisdom, will attack the Republican women’s character. They know that Democrats cannot have a reasonable conversation, and a brouhaha will ensue.
The Republican women, who feel intimidated, remain mute. They believe their inner fortitude is enough. But is it? No, it is not. The stakes are too high. The republic is vulnerable, our children’s futures in jeopardy.
It is now crucial for conservatives to roll up their sleeves and to join the debate. Isolating into the haven of friends who are of the same mind at home, in church, and even on talk radio is no longer an option. Preaching to the choir will not win our country back in 2012.
It’s time for Republicans to pronounce: Women are smarter than this.
How does one convert unyielding and uninformed liberals? With reason and knowledge. To enter into this battle, one must be armed, agile, sharp, and resolute.
Here are some tools. When the Democrats start ranting, use the GIRLFRIENDS acronym to forge through the storm.
G: Get Reasonable. Want to teach your children that laws don’t matter? Be a Democrat.
- Knowledge is power and reason is a civic responsibility.
- Our United States Constitution is the law of the land.
- Democrat think the Constitution is irrelevant because it restricts them.
I: Informed on Phony Contraception Battle. Want your children to lose their religious freedom? Be a Democrat.
- Republicans are not interested in taking away contraceptives.
- The Republicans are protecting your religious freedom.
- A dangerous precedent has been set — the government has successfully mandated that the Catholic Church go against their beliefs and cover contraceptives in their insurance policies.
- What’s next? Mandating which religion you must follow?
R: Republicans Are the Women’s Party. Want your daughter to be constrained by government? Be a Democrat.
- Republicans supported the 19th Amendment, extending voting rights to America’s women. Democrats didn’t.
- A Republican, Senator A. A. Sargent, introduced the 19th Amendment.
- A Democrat-controlled U.S. Congress denied women their right to vote by refusing to pass the 19th Amendment. Four times.
- A Republican-controlled U.S. Congress finally passed the 19th Amendment.
- During the ratification process, eight of the nine states that did not ratify the amendment had Democrat-controlled state legislatures.
Janine, you make some excellent points. Your line, “we didn’t blow out the candles until we had electricity…” is one I hadn’t heard before and I may have to steal it.
The problem is one you made early in your piece, however. Liberals don’t want to be confused by facts and simply resort to name calling when cornered.
I don’t disagree that they need to be answered rather than tolerated but I’m not betting the farm on the results.
You can’t change them by using the truth. They don’t believe it. Tell them lies, but be skillfull, because they are so enamored by laws they wiil reconize subterfuge, because of their constant use of it.
I disagree.
Show them that liberals won’t let them send their kids to the best schools.
Show them that liberals are keeping molesters and incompetents employed (or paid for no work!) as teachers.
Show them that the decisions they are now making about their children’s health will soon be made by bureaucrats in Washington D.C.
Show them the evil of federal bureaucracies in general: What happens when the eeevul Republicans take over and staff the HHS? (Hint, Democrat ladies: Maybe it’s best to knock those bureaucracies down altogether and let individuals make decisions for themselves.)
Show them that there are three branches of government and a process for writing federal law, so a President Romney wont’ be able to “declare abortion illegal” and start throwing crowds of teenaged rape victims into federal prisons.
That last one could be significant for a lot of liberals, especially those who still maintain their rage for G.W. Bush. Most liberals I know are happy to bypass constitutional checks and balances in order to achieve their goals. If you show them that once those floodgates are open, the deluge will flow both ways, a few may reconsider their opinions. Just point out that the same restrictions that make it difficult to pass Cap and Trade or Universal Health Care will also prevent the Republicans from outlawing birth control and deporting all non-white people (or whatever other nonsense liberals think Republicans want to do).
Reason and logic cannot persuade someone out of a position that was not entered into with reason or logic. Liberals feel entitled to their own facts and no amount of references disputing their assertions will dissuade them from the tiny mental box they’ve built for their minds. This will not end well for the republic.
The liberals to whom you refer, that is the died in the wool reactionalries (feels odd using that phrase with liberals rather than conservatives but time passes and one often learns), are what I refer to as fools and idiots. As in, “ExSSNcrew, we’re surrounded by fools and idiots.”, and you are right. That particular class of self described liberal is immune to reasonable or even emotional arguements that contradict what they already believe. I usually just laugh at the ones I know or meet and when they erupt into anger I egg them on. No heart attacks yet but a lots of cases of indigestion and even a couple of ulcers. It’s cruel I know but amusing and sometimes it gives others pause to consider their worldview.
— “Reason and logic cannot persuade someone out of a position that was not entered into with reason or logic.”
So very true.
— “Liberals feel entitled to their own facts and no amount of references disputing their assertions will dissuade them from the tiny mental box they’ve built for their minds. This will not end well for the republic.”
Only if the party faithful do what they did the last time around, in far too many numbers: stay home and do nothing.
But I’m not seeing it. I think that anti-Obama sentiment will be up, and pro-Obama sentiment will be way down from 2008. He’s doing everything he can to present this cool-cat image to his special-interest backers, but it’s falling flat. The crowds are gone. The enthusiasm is mocked up. Most everyone is waking up to the fact that Obama truly is an empty Brooks-Brothers suit, and a non-doctorate part-time college lecturer to boot. He’s a media creation with a matching Narcissistic personality.
But I run on.
Attempting to convert liberals is like urinating against the wind: it all comes back at you. But I am going to use the GIRLFRIENDS mnemonic to recall the excellent points made to convert the clueless. My conservative views have stripped me of friends anyway. I have nothing to lose and they have everything to gain from these insights.
…and yes y’all are pissing all over your ignorant hateful racist misogynist xenophobic homophobic selves, aint ya?!
Janine is correct when she says “Can you believe the Republicans are taking away our contraceptives!” is the statement that usually initiates a political blast from female liberal friends. But Janine’s retort is useless! The argument of Religious Freedom will NOT satisfy a female liberal’s repulsion. If you’re using ‘religious freedom’ as your contraception argument, you’re going to lose! And if you’re using that argument, you were probably raised as a Catholic.
If you’re going to ‘convert’ a liberal, you must first acknowledge that “no artificial contraception” sounds absolutely NUTS to a non-Catholic! NUTS! The thought of finding yourself the mother of 7 children is so abhorrent to most female liberals that she won’t even HEAR your retort. Black slavery is secondary to her image of 7 children!
First & foremost, you must acknowledge that you agree that birth control is MANDATORY in most American women’s lives. (Studies show that 97% of Catholic American women DO use artificial birth control.) That statement is MANDATORY in your argument for conservative politics. ONLY after that statement can female liberals begin to listen to your Religious Freedom explanation!
I have found that altho most conservative Catholic women DO use contraception, they still support the Catholic Church’s right to ban it. This is fuzzy logic to most non-Catholics. Acknowlegement of that point MUST be established before any converting is going to happen.
“Studies show that 97% of Catholic American women DO use artificial birth control.”
False.
Ain’t no such “studies.” Go ahead, try and find one if you disagree.
Feminists and their enablers have a long record of inventing numbers like your “97% of Catholic Women”, Msmensa, yet they are still too often believed. Women like you should be smarter than that.
Excuse me? 97%of catholic women are of child bearing age? Rubbish, bovine excrement.
Nobody says, “97% use.” Its, “97% have used some form of contraception in their lives.”
There are too many studies to list. As a STARTER, simply google “Do most American Catholic women use contraceptives”?
Why should I search for a study that is false on its face? It is impossible that 97% of Catholic women even need birth control in the first place.
You have a study telling me the sun rises in the West? Maybe if you qualified the statement to include what PORTION of Catholic women you are referring to?
OK, I “googled”, although I think using the internet as one’s sole source of information is risky.
Your statistic is false. A complete, outright untruth.
Here, an admission from the “belly of the beast”.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-claim-that-98-percent-of-catholic-women-use-contraception-a-media-foul/2012/02/16/gIQAkPeqIR_blog.html
You should have realized this. It is impossible that 97% of Catholic women even need birth control in the first place. It’s like a study telling me the sun rises in the West? Maybe if you qualified the statement to include what PORTION of Catholic women you are referring to?
@mzk – one does not “use the internet” as a sole source of information. That’s like condemning “using books” as a sole source of information. If you can’t understand this rather self-evident fact, why should we feel the obligation to follow your tortured logic?
If I find this study will you become a liberal?
His assertion was not exactly correct; the CDC study asserts that it found that 99% of sexually active women have used contraception:
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-refuted-cdc-report-not-true-99-women-have-used-contraceptives-139-have-never-had
But, really, who cares what sluts do, amirite?
I thought it made perfect sense to liberals: “I don’t agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”
Please put down the statistic, sharp end away from you, and step away before you hurt yourself.
Really? “Put down the statistic”? Are you promoting close-mindedness? That’s probably the one thing that creates liberals and conservatives. They all refuse to change and open up their mind. I’ll bet nobody will be affected by this and you’ll all deny it.
Whether or not birth control is mandatory in women’s lives is not the question. Why should anyone else be obligated to pay for another woman’s birth control?
The reason we do it pay for contraception is that it saves money.
No, it doesn’t, or insurance companies would already offer it for free.
That assumes that we are responsible for paying the cost of their pregnancies! Also, an outrage!
The Catholic Church is not trying to ban contraception. They believe in freedom, freedom for you to use them as well as their own freedom to not pay for them because they do not agree with them. You are completely and absolutely free to use any form of birth control as long as you don’t ask the Church to pay for it. Obama and the Democrats do not believe in individual freedom. They want to impose their views on everyone, regardless of personal beliefs.
Thank you, Anonymous, for your good common sense and for pointing out that women are NOT prohibited from obtaining contraception just because their employer-funded health insurance does not pay for it. These women are free to purchase contraceptives anytime they want. If they can’t afford it, there are many organizations, clinics and county health departments that provide free or reduced-cost contraceptives to lower income women. Some clinics & health departments provide contraceptives to any woman regardless of income or ability to pay.
We must come to our senses as a society and realize that the entitlement mentality that refuses to acknowledge personal responsibility is costing us our freedom! This increasing dependency on government is turning us into a nation of dependent children who never grow up and become responsible for themselves. When our government becomes our principle source of provision, we give the government the right to control our lives and make our decisions for us. We must also realize that when the government takes control of something like our healthcare system, it becomes bloated with bureaucracy and bogged down in “red tape” so that the services we do receive are inefficient and of much poorer quality than what we currently have.
When we abdicate our personal and civic responsibilities to the government in exchange for food, shelter and healthcare, we are NOT getting these things for free! Instead of paying with our money, we pay a much higher price by losing our liberties and our freedom and in return, we receive so much less than we would have if we were willing to pay for it ourselves.
Thank you Helen. I wish we could publish your response for all liberals to see. When will they learn that we are looking out for the most basic human rights for each person. Freedom. Choice. I wish is were mandatory to memorize the first ten articles of the constitution!
Msmensa,
It is obvious to me you’ve taken the article completely out of context. Let me explain a few things here…
1) That “Can you believe Republicans are trying to take away our contraception?” quote is being used (in Janine’s intro) to describe one argument liberals might like to use when starting a conversation. The article is NOT about contraception.
2) The article is about trying to convert liberals to a rational, truthful, worldview; instead of leaving them to wallow in their idiocy.
3) On your topic and your assumption that “women NEED contraception:” Sorry, but that is simply not true. Your statement assumes that all women are in the same situation and feel the same way about pregnancy and having babies. However, not all women are the same age; not all women are fertile; not all women are of childbearing age; not all women are single; not all women are married; not all women are unable to multi-task; not all women deny their womanhood by viewing pregnancy as some sort of life-threatening illness. Such assumptions are utter fallacy.
4) To be clear, I am NOT “Catholic,” nor of any religion; so please do not make assumptions about my worldview. I am simply a rational, educated individual who loves being a woman–with all that entails.
I was not clear in my post. Janine’s article was on “How to Convert A Liberal.” Anyone who would make the “Can you believe the Republicans are taking away our contraceptives!” statement is obviously someone who has TOTALLY misunderstood the contraceptive POLITICAL issue.
My “How to Convert” suggestion was simply to alert fellow conservatives that liberal females will not even LISTEN to our explanation of “religious freedom” unless we FIRST acknowledge that we have no problem whatsoever with anyone using contraceptives. Contraception is EXTREMELY important to MANY women…certainly important to a woman who would make the “Can you believe…” statement. This issue alone is enough to make uninformed women vote democrat! My point (which I obviously did not convey well) was that this uninformed woman COULD be converted if she were willing to listen and understand the real issue of religious freedom. BUT without your “I have zero problem with anyone using contraceptives” opening acknowledgement, the liberal will be unable to even listen to the ‘real issue’ explanation.
Because I have heard the “Can you believe…” argument countered by the religious freedom explanation ONLY…ONLY, I simply posted a suggestion on how to successfully counter.
If you’re a Catholic who feels contraception is always wrong, then obviously this particular political issue is not one that will help you with an attempted political conversion.
O’bwana is ruling as a tyrant. He’s doing things that George III wouldn’t have even imagined. All who support O’bwana are your blood-enemies. They want you 1) enslaved; then, 2) dead. And your response is to marshall better arguments? Patrick Henry isn’t smiling.
Jake,
Your definition of a tyrant is way off base. For instance, a tyrant jails or kills people who disagree with him. There are still lots of Republican legislators alive who have done things that Obama didn’t like, so calling him a tyrant is just wrong.
You’re absolutely right. Obama is merely a wannabe tyrant. He can’t get anything right. But he sure does try his best…
Wouldn’t a Benevolant Tyrant still be a tyrant? after all, a benevolant tyrant knows what is best for everybody. It is how they act on that ‘knowledge’ that makes them a tyrant.
Not all liberals will not listen to facts or reason. Look at some of the great conservative leaders who were previously liberals. The hardcore few wont ever change but a good majority are just blinded by the manipulation of facts by the media, dems, Hollywood, and education system. We can convert many of them by just opening their eyes to the truth.
Welcome, Janine. What a wonderful addition to an already stellar lineup. Roger is doing something spectacular here, it is now evident. PJMedia is quickly becoming the go-to outlet to “Undo the Propaganda”.
Your points are all well taken. And using smart, informed, and savvy women to Undo the Propaganda is a stroke of genius.
Everyone knows that the Tarzans only swing on the grapevine, the Janes have always owned it.
And that men’s gifts in the art of persuasion is like swimming in the kiddie pool in comparison with women’s Olympian talents. Women vote more. And, they talk to each other about….everything.
Men talk to each other the way they shop. I want one of these, this size, this material…where can I find it, thanks, here’s my credit card.
In dealing with the Propaganda and Lies Ministry, much like receiving a defective item from a store…men will feel deceived and become angry. Women will feel betrayed and demand recompense. It is this latter response that is so desperately needed. Right now, the anti-Propaganda and Lies effort is largely “male”, point out each and every time yet another “example”…and say, “See, you didn’t deceive me with THAT one”.
For men, it is all about not looking foolish, “catching” the other “team” in the act of cheating, yet again. It is very inward facing.
This may have to do with the main differences between conservatives and small c communists. (there are no more liberals, the radical leftists swallowed them whole). Small c communist men are, in general, emasculated. They “lead”…from behind. They surrender and apologize.
Conservative women have a warrior spirit and a servant’s heart. Small c communists have a deserter’s spirit and “gimme” heart.
In order to accomplish all that you set out in your article, the first order of business is to Undo the Propaganda….from the one segment of the species of humankind that would be effective against it. The conservative woman. Not just pointing at it, as a man would…and saying “you didn’t deceive ME…I’m smarter than this”…but instead, “You are hurting my family by robbing them of the truth, I’m taking this back and I demand you replace it.”
From your conservative men, thank you for not trying to emasculate us, thank you for your warrior spirit and servant’s heart and thank you for being you.
May God keep you safe and warm in His embrace, and on any day He doesn’t…we will.
wow, thanks!
Miss Turner, I admire your courage and your intelligence, but I must say:
…skirts the most important aspect of the Left / Right divide.
It’s not a matter of “smarter.” I know many intelligent people who are Democrats-for-life. The mindset that conduces to an uncritical attachment to the Left is independent of one’s intelligence. It arises from the desire to think oneself morally superior to others.
Some wag once said that when a conservative disagrees with you, he’s likely to classify you as either misinformed or stupid, but when a liberal disagrees with you, he’ll virtually always deem you morally inferior — evil. That attitude has resided at the heart of leftist politics ever since Marx. The Democrats and their allegiant groups have absorbed it wholly.
That desire to see oneself as morally elevated above the common herd even trumps self-interest, at least in cases that fall short of survival pressure. It’s not quite right to call it an ideology, since reasoning has little (if anything) to do with it. It comes closer to being a religious creed, albeit one that dispenses with the need for a deity or a mythos.
In this connection, two books are extremely valuable: Eric Hoffer’s The True Believer, and Thomas Sowell’s The Vision Of The Anointed: Self-congratulation as a Basis for Social Policy. I recommend both of them.
Good on ya for recommending Sowell’s _The Vision Of The Anointed_. Although all his work is terrific, TVOTA is by far my personal favorite. I wore my first copy out so thoroughly that I’m now on my second copy
I would have to agree with several of the people that commented. You can’t change a liberal with logic and reason. They think they are better than you, morally superior. We have to show them it is actually the other way around.
Unfortunately, the liberal media keeps painting conservatives as evil and liberals keep believing them.
Steve
I almost laughed out loud at this comment. ‘You can’t change a liberal with logic and reason. They think they are better than you, morally superior. We have to show them it is actually the other way around.
Unfortunately, the liberal media keeps painting conservatives as evil and liberals keep believing them.’
You understand, of course that this is exactly what liberals say about conservatives, right?
Yeah, anybody who believes logic and reason can convert liberals has to explain how the libs got a foothold in and then later conquered UT and Austin.
Don’t convert Leftists. Convert moderates, apathetic people, etc.
You understand, of course that this is exactly what liberals say about conservatives, right?
You understand, of course, that “liberals” say a lot of things that aren’t true and can’t stand up to scrutiny. The reactionary Left doesn’t like to be challenged and lashes out whenever it IS challenged. Your problem is that Janine’s article hits a little too close to home and it threatens your comfort level of willful ignorance.
I made a statement pointing to the irony of the previous comment, and you made a personal attack on me, calling me willfully ignorant.
Janine’s article didn’t inform anyone of anything except Janine’s opinion. This means that I think Janine is a bad writer.
Nothing in the comment that I made stated anything about my opinion or my knowledge.
Per a previous comment of yours, you were hardly civil.
Welcome, Janine.
Sadly, unless your Democrat friends are not fact-immune, your advice will not work. Most of the so-called “reality-based” Democrats are exactly the opposite: fact-immune.
Not only are Democrats fact-immune, they are thin-skinned. Bring up facts and they will first get huffy, then insult you, and finally storm off. I tried to discuss issues a few times and was left shaking my head.
Not all, but most. One of my colleagues and drinking buddies is a classic, East Coast urban liberal. He was transplanted physically to Texas but his attitudes haven’t changed. We’ve worked together several times, including six months in Japan, and have spent a lot of time on barstools discussing issues of the day.
Paul and I can talk politics, and disagree on a wide range of issues – we do – and neither of it takes it personally. I razz him about being a clueless urban liberal, and he gives me a ration for being a backwoods, redneck buckaroo. It’s not personal. It’s just guys giving each other crap as guys do.
I’d say Paul is the exception, the rare exception to the rule, though. Most lefties are indeed thin-skinned, and see any disagreement as a threat. To my thinking that says something profound about their security in their views.
Animal,
Since you’re in Texas, take Paul to the range! He’ll be voting Republican before you know it.
Janine,
Welcome-Brains AND Beauty–what a great combo!!
Actually I’m in Colorado – the line of work we’re both in requires travel, and lots of hotel stays. And, political differences aside, Paul and I are very good friends and enjoy visiting each other.
I have half-way talked him into going to the gun club with me sometime when he’s up here. It’s a work in progress.
Very thin skinned. And so angry all the time. They get so lathered over the most trivial things. Absolutely no patience. Has anyone done a study on this? Is their executive functioning out of whack (you know, like attention, impulse control and emotional regulation)?
Yeah, I just laugh at them. They hate it, they hate me, because I ask people “Are you really that gullible, or are you hoping I am?”
I am going to use that line. I especially love the latter part. Pure Gold!
Good points that can be used as an opening to identify “democrats” who aren’t “liberals” and allow them a graceful exit to split off from the herd. As for the true “liberals”, facts are meaningless and putting them in their face will only create mortal enemies. Their entire sense of self is wrapped up in being “not republican”. Don’t you see, even though the cheerleaders were mean to them, at least they are better than those dirty little republicans.
But this is a do or die election, so it is indeed worth throwing one or two points out there to see who is willing to bite, as well as to put the “liberals” on notice that the majority of the world has moved beyond their false sense of superiority and self-righteousness.
Becky, what you say is spot on. For “true liberals”… facts are meaningless.
But take heart, because polling done for many decades show that true leftists in America have consistently numbered between 18-21%. I call them the “20%ers”, the destructive 20%ers. But conservatives have consistently come in at around 40%, twice as many. And moderates make up the rest.
So in all humility, my advice to all you warrior ladies out there – don’t worry about the 20%ers… tragically, they don’t care about facts. They march to a far different drummer.
Share your concerns and your hearts with fellow conservatives and the roughly 40% of main-stream Americans in the center. I sincerely believe that your concerns, more often than not, will also be their concerns.
November, 2012… for the futures of all our loved ones.
Keep passing the word.
Welcome, Janine.
You said, “Debt is the biggest threat to our national security.” Roger that. Eisenhower made note of this decades ago, and he was right. Everything flows from our economic stability and strength, and without it, we’re little more than Zaire with Nuclear weapons.
Welcome Janine!
I can only say this opening piece gives me another great reason to admire your work. “Fact Immune” has entered my list of liberal descriptors, and will be used more frequently now. I, too, tire easily of the boring condescension from left-wing loudmouth women. They will not be heard without risk of humorous ridicule from now on.
There is too much at stake, and my children need to see the social consequences of being vacuous and loud at the same time.
Janine, great first column for PJM and congrats from your neighboring state of New Mexico. Hopefully your advice will serve well to get some of the moderate Democrats to see the light. But, the far left is so blinded by their religion of socialism and hate that I fear it is hopeless.
You are so right that this is a make or break election. Those of us that still believe in freedom need to turn out in record numbers.
Welcome, Janine!
Excellent article and great points. May I add one?
The fact that you are sitting at a table with a liberal having lunch or dinner gives you the right to speak, period. I have many progressive and liberal friends, and the fact that they are my friends means that I will be honest and forthright with them when they bring up politics in a discussion. I will be polite, keep to specifics, and not push the discussion longer than they want to, but I will not grant them any quarter. I’ve lost one or two semi-friends, but that’s it.
Welcome, Janine. PJMedia is a great site.
I tend to agree with Chris from Toronto. I tend to not initiate a counter-argument against Dem talking points I find ignorant and ill-informed. I go on the offensive, and just plow in with something like “I can’t believe anyone who considers themselves intelligent to any degree would even consider voting for such an inept, incompetent fool like Obama.” Then I go on with my own talking points, which vary with mileage.
If it doesn’t convert, (and it probably won’t), and everyone at the table really wants to be friends, it will at least change the topic of conversation so I can enjoy my food.
And of course everyone will know where I stand, which is never a bad thing and is certainly not something to be embarrassed about. It won’t be me breaking up a friendship in a political huff; I leave that to the lefties.
Welcome aboard, Janine!
Excellent effort right out of the gate–looking forward to more of your writings!
Or, do what I do … don’t socialize with liberals.
It’s not that you can’t win an argument, it’s that it is terrible for your digestion. Eat less stress and outrage, period.
Besides, Feminism == Sociopathology.
Logic will rarely break through the “feelings” barrier but good luck to you anyway. I have been recently had a little success chipping away at the firmly held illusions of a very Democrat friend in the northeast. She is in very bad economic shape despite having what not long ago was a fairly good job. I think I finally convinced her that no sane person would risk capital starting a new business these days as long as Obama is in office and that makes her labor less valuable. It took a long time but I think that fact has started to sink in. I try to couch the argument in philosophical ways so as to make a general distinction between liberal and conservative economic theories but I think she does not really understand that. All she really knows is that she is suffering and Obama is president. It is a start.
Forget about converting them; that pretty much can’t be done (although I try, too) because they simply won’t acknowledge reality. Facts mean nothing to them and are always trumped by emtions, the prime of which is self-gratification. They have a desperate need to feel good about themselves, and that’s why they’re lefties. You could probably convert left-handed people to right more easily than you could convert the average liberal.
The main thing is: We have to out-organize, out-support and out-vote them. We have to take the reins of power away from them before they drive us over the cliff. And we have to keep the Republicans’ feet to the fire — when they start behaving like “Democrats Lite,” we have to throw them out and let them know that another party is waiting in the wings if they can’t do what needs to be done.
Not a ‘girlfriend’ but, King notice how liberal recoil when confronted with failure of liberalism- like snail eyes when you poke them. Followed quickly with “a pox on both their houses”. Translation: “I hate your guy, but before I can admit you’re right, I declare them both crooks.” Further translation: “I really hate (emphasis on emotion) you conservatives and am only trying to be nice because, that’s the least I can do.”
It’s like trying to get the emotional half of the brain to behave like the logical (though sometimes passionate) side. Good luck with that.
Having the type of discussions Ms. Turner advocates is great, but it’s not always that easy. When I get together with girlfriends, political discussions are fine so long as everyone agrees. But as soon as there’s disagreement, some immediately seek to quell the conversation. Disagreement is viewed as impolite and unfriendly and “not why we’re here.” Personally, I like to exchange viewpoints as long as it’s done in measured tones and respectfully, but many women view any conflict as something they need to put a stop to and that makes it impossible to have any worthwhile exchange of important ideas. None of my girlfriends are Obama supporters per se, although some of us are more “conservative” than others, but even so we just wind up going back to talking about fashion, movies & TV, children, mutual aquaintances, etc.
I respond to that tactic with a statement to the effect that energetic conversation doesn’t have to imply conflict. Further, that an expressior of opinion has a moral obligation to gracefully receive a rebuttal or keep your opinions to yourself.
It never fails me and usually embarasses the conversation squelcher.
I agree. I think the root of that is that women tend to take things more personally than men. They sometimes see criticism of their viewpoint as a criticism of themselves. So they avoid discussions that might make anyone feel uncomfortable. I don’t see this as much with my female colleagues, though- I think we got that personalization issue beat out of us in medical school and residency.
It’s a learned problem and it can be unlearned. Debating on blogs certainly helps! And for young women, the debate team is an excellent opportunity, in college or high school.
Sometimes I envy a group of men engaged in spirted conversation about sports, politics, etc. Unlike many women, they don’t seem to be afraid to be loud or call attention to themsevles. With my girlfriends, I notice that when the decible level is raised, everyone looks around them to see if anyone’s noticing. It must be a hold over from our childhoods, when most of us girls were taught to be quiet, prim and proper. I definitely think that a rigorous professional education would counter some of that. Maybe if I’d made it through law school I’d be a bit more forceful!
It’s ironic that you begin this column by saying that preaching to the choir isn’t going to help win the country back. Because none of the rest of it will have any persuasive value outside the choir. It’s PURE choir preaching. It’s 100% geared towards reinforcing the already firmly-held views of conservative women. That’s your target audience.
Everything you say sounds right to all the people who already agree with you. But try re-reading it from the perspective of someone who doesn’t already agree. Will they be persuaded, or will they be angered and insulted? You know the answer.
If you REALLY cared about taking the country back by persuading more people to see things your way, you wouldn’t be telling women to use your talking points. All they can do is lead to a testy argument. If you want to persuade someone, you begin by respecting and understanding their views, and trying to identify common ground to build on. I’m not a democrat, or a liberal, or even a woman, but even I understand that.
It’s no wonder our country is so messed up right now. Both “teams’ can do no better than to repeatedly yell, the same oversimplifications at each other while accusing the other side of bad faith and stupidity. I’d like to take the country back from all the people who believe that anyone who disagrees with them must be stupid, evil, or both. THOSE people are the problem.
Thank you so much for expressing what are also my thoughts on this. I especially appreciated reading,
“It’s no wonder our country is so messed up right now. Both “teams’ can do no better than to repeatedly yell, the same oversimplifications at each other while accusing the other side of bad faith and stupidity. I’d like to take the country back from all the people who believe that anyone who disagrees with them must be stupid, evil, or both. THOSE people are the problem.”
I do not claim to be a member of either “side” but know for a fact I am seen as always being on “the other side”. The inability for so many to to truly *discuss* (not preach) this stuff has left me so disillusioned that I fear even voting… and that is something I have *never* felt before. Both sides, or at least their too-loud mouth pieces, are doing too good a job of scaring me off! I truly wish we had the “No Vote” option, here.
C’mon and have a visit over to the rise of the center at http://riseofthecenter.com/. I’m one of many bloggers there.Can’t promise deliverance, of course.
Can’t even promise a difference of KIND when it comes to political discussion. But I can promise a difference of degree. On occasion, this site manages to have a decent discussion for 20-50 comments without devolving into poo-flinging. Based on experience, that seems to be the ceiling for decent blog discussions.
It’s also not too much of an exercise in mutual back-patting: not an echo chamber.
That’s from cranky critter, BTW, same person.
Bill Whittle did a great piece on the differences between the conservative and liberal ideologies. He stated ever so wisely that there is no common ground. That the fundamental building blocks behind WHY we think the way we do is diametrically opposed to the liberal WHY. There isn’t any common ground. It breaks my heart but I agree with Mr. Whittle’s assessment. There seems to be no escape from the political polemic that ensues when we try to, in vain, argue our points.
But there’s light at the end of tunnel: they don’t reproduce. They’ve been killing themselves off for the past 50 years. They’ve run out of young voters because they aborted them and have had to resort to groups like ACORN coming up with fake voters (like those pathetic women who have “reborn” babies) to replace the ones they killed. I’m supposed to be really sad about this, being a Catholic pro-lifer, but I really do only have so much time, energy and sympathy to devote to trying to convince liberals to not die off as a demographic.
such hate and disdain, and you call yourself a Catholic? for shame.
Nonsense. I talk to both liberals and conservatives all the time. And I find things to agree with on both sides. When liberals and conservatives take surveys that inventory their responses to various moral issues, they don’t disagree about everything. The problem is that everyone takes for granted the things we largely agree about. We amplify small differences of degree into things like “conservatives support family values and liberals don’t” or “liberals care about poor people and conservatives don’t.” In general,most Americans agree on many end goals, but quarrel about the route to those goals.
Notice your emphasis on getting points across. People care so much about making their point, and they care so little about understanding others’ points and points of view. What if, instead of repeating our pet positions we really gave people the benefit of the doubt and made a real good faith effort to understand where they were coming from?
Believe it or not, you don’t actually have to agree with someone to notice that their heart is in the right place. But if you don’t notice that their heart is in the right place, you give yourself permission not to give their views any benefit of the doubt. There is no good faith effort to understand.
I agree completely. I have been a Republican since I first registered to vote, but I consider myself a moderate. It pains me to see both sides throwing lies at each other rather than sitting down to a substantive discussion. The talking point that 92% of the layoffs of this recession have been women has been rated false by numerous fact checking agencies yet it still appears in this article. There is plenty to criticize President Obama on, why does this article need to resort to lying? Those of us in the middle feel offended and put-off by this insult to our intelligence.
I noticed that too. How did America go in two years from a “man-cession” to “92% of those laid off are women”?
Women are smarter than this.
Oh, the “wickedness” of our “evil” society. Never have human beings suffered so — or, just the opposite. And all this spewing as they check their emails on their iPhones, sip another glass of wine at their restaurant of choice, smooth the tiny wrinkles from their designer clothing, then speed off in their SUVs for their four-bedroom homes (even though they have 0.93 children and they want to “save” Mother Earth).
All you EVER have to do is bottom-line any of their Lefty rants: “So what’s your solution to all these evils?” It’s always the same: Big Government deciding everything for everybody. Of course, if they get their way and Big Government does take control, the minute one of their beloved, all-knowing, all-seeing bureaucrats makes a decision about their lives that they don’t like, they immediately start screaming “oppression!” and “revolution!”, because their socialist/communist Big Government ideals are fair and flawless; it’s the people in charge who are not.
Welcome Janine, always love your performances. had a crush since Northern Exposure. Good Luck and be well.
W
“How does one convert unyielding and uninformed liberals? With reason and knowledge.”
“Want to teach your children that laws don’t matter? Be a Democrat.”
You know, that doesn’t sound like reason or knowledge. That sounds like insult.
Sounds like the truth to me; if you’re insulted, tought sh*t.
It isn’t a Republican/Democrat divide. It is a statist vs. freedom divide. The Republicans and Democrats just want to control different aspects of the citizen’s lives.
Welcome Janine,
The thing is most people aren’t hard nosed conservatives nor Liberals. There is no convincing these people to the otherside. We folks who get to decide whther we veer left right or libertarian are the people who haven’t given political policy much thought. There are the people that can be swayed to see things our way.
BTW: Janine if you get an opportunity see if you can convice O’Reilly that we aren’t all naked sweathogs out on the internet, and that the most thoughtful opinions are found on blogs and such, and not out in the MSM.
I Like but can’t Recommend. As Chris from Toronto said, its not going to work. As you said, its going to denigrate into a personal matter. This, despite that every talking point you listed I am wholeheartedly in agreement with.
With personal attacks I usually just own them amd kick it up a notch with something outrageous in order to undermine the potency of an attack. Something along the lines of, I eat childrens’ livers with my scrambled eggs, too. Then I state that my depravity is no blemish on the fidelity of the truth. So stay on point, girls.
Then I get the excuse that Republicans are guilty of various sins of bad government, too. This is the hardest one to deal with as I’m not a party animal and hold significant amounts of contempt for those sins. It gives rise to labeling the parties as essentially in parity for blame and therefore justification for staying embedded in each of our respective camps. I read your bullet points but believe me, there were votes by Republicans that don’t look good, depending upon one’s understanding and worldview. Its a tit for tat part of the conversation. We have weak Republicans to blame.
Lastly, Democrats have equated liberty and license. License defines the social values discord and the entitlement society mess. An attack on that front is an attack on personal liberty to them. To win that you have to take examples to the extreme, bit by bit.
Don’t argue with liberals to change liberals. Argue to change the minds in the audience and to strengthen the resolve of your quieter peers. When the liberal says that you’ll never change her mind, respond with an acknowledgement and assert that it did change the minds of your listeners because you made the best and only choices, obvious. A liberal will reach for her Nexium.
I meant to add the reminder that it was women who screwed America in 2008 and that if Obama wins again in 2012 it will be women who screwed America … again.
Just saying …
Wow! You must hate women…alot!
Wow Janine, well done. I’ll Tweet this link out to my followers. see @daxtonbrown
And how come conservative women are such knockouts? I think they will be giving out Hillary Troll dolls at the fair pretty soon. Just asking the obvious.
Because conservative women see femininity as an asset, not a drawback. That type of thinking has worked well for me all of my life, working in a male-oriented field as I do. That’s also why conservative women fight for the rights of women AS women.
Conservative women realize there is no shame in being female, in fact, there is a certain power in it. Too bad our liberal sisters don’t realize that. They just seem to want to be men.
you must not know many liberal women then, as your ignorance shows…
a fondness for liberty and freedom does not rot from the inside out the way statism does
Welcome aboard, Janine, from a fellow Euless homey.
Totally enjoyed the piece with one minor exception. My wife would’ve lit them up like a Christmas tree.
Ditto, except from Watauga!!!!!!
i read and comment on PJ pretty much everyday. good to have you on board. looking forward to reading more of your views.
Welcome aboard, Ms. Turner! I can see I’m going to enjoy reading your columns.
That being said, I honestly don’t think any girlfriends are going to be persuaded, period. I have a social circle that I love to death most of the time, but I’m the only conservative, and I tend to keep my mouth shut because I know that if we argue too much I’ll lose their friendship. In this case, I think the best thing to do is only take up these kinds of arguments if you’re in a public place.
My dad always told me to argue not to convince my opponent, but to convince the people watching the argument. If you’re at home with friends, arguing like this will be pointless, but if you’re in a restaurant or a bar, making a good showing of your point and letting the other side degenerate into invective can win over the listeners. That, I think, is where conservative womens’ points can make the greatest impact.
“R: Republicans Are the Women’s Party.”
You really have to go back 92 years to find an example of Republicans fighting for women’s rights?
Welcome to PJ Janine! Thanks for the effort.
Welcome, Janine.
The scenario you’re describing certainly has happened to me, but fortunately not often since I live in a red state. We still have our share of unthinking leftists, though, especially in academia. What’s interesting is what happens when acquaintances find out I am not like-minded (especially after they’ve spewed a particularly vicious fact-free statement). First, they’re shocked that I would disagree because I’m an “intellectual” (their words), and then they’re slightly embarrassed. And then, after a few weak and defensive statements, they shut up because they know that they’re outgunned. It’s surprising how uninformed women can be, and this is why they are susceptible to feel-good liberal talking points.
It’s also amazing how persistent this groupthink truly is. A new neighbor (from Oregon- no surprise there) shocked us all when she absolutely lit into Catholics and Catholicism with a variation of the the usual anti-Christian rant. Every single one of us were church-goers, and half were Catholic- and too polite to say anything. That particular topic died on the vine. I took her aside later and explained the situation. She was mortified, and honestly professed that she did not know women “like us” (all with graduate degrees) could think any differently. Eventually, she came around.
I do have a few intransigent liberal girlfriends with whom I can discuss things on equal terms- there’s one good friend whose family regularly gets together with mine just because we’re all brainy and make good conversation for each other. This particular friend left a book club of which we were both members because there were too many strident righties in it.
Studies do show that conservatives are better at thinking like a liberal than the reverse- but it always helps to learn from their narrow-mindedness and never assume that friends think alike. In my experience, it’s not too late to save them if one avoids being as shrill as they can be.
“Studies do show that conservatives are better at thinking like a liberal…”
where is the link for proof of this study? because if there isn’t one, you are just making up facts, something that most conservatives accuse liberals of doing.
Janine’s opinion piece, as well as many comments I’ve read here, only show the narrow-mindedness of conservatives, and their self-imposed superiority over anyone that doesn’t think like them. There are liberals that suffer from this same affliction too. This doesn’t mean that either party is right, just differences of opinions. We need to stop blaming each other and pointing fingers and reach a common ground and fix the problems. None of this “I’m better than you are because I’m a conservative/liberal.” It doesn’t work and only creates more of a divide. We have enough of that in this country.
Good article, Jeanine. One more thought on Democrats and women: it was recently revealed that female White House staffers earn 18% less across the board than do male staffers. Love that income equality thing!
Let me tell you how we are converting one young liberal.
Our grandaughter,starts college next year. She had been a very argumentative liberal for about two years.Making fun of us,Mom and Dad because we are conservative. She is a product of her liberal,union teachers and friends.
Hubby and I have worked,scrimped and saved in order to get her a car to take to college with her,and to help her pay for college.
After a Christmas holiday with our little Democrat, grandpa and I developed a plan. At Easter time we sat with her and explained that we wanted to pick three groups to donate to in her name. She was thrilled that she was allowed to choose. We wrote the checks to the liberal causes of her choice.We then wrote her a check for 50% of the amount that we had planned to give her for her car.
She had expected $00,000.00 dollars. She asked if we were going to make payments on the car. We said no. After a lengthy discussion including explaining to her that is how much money the government state,local and sales taxes take from us for the common good. We explained she had gotten her point across to us and because we only had so much money and we wanted to include her in our choices,we were sure she would not mind waiting until she had saved more money for the car she wanted or get a part time job to make payments.The important part of this is ,we did it. There is not more money to give her for the car,we cannot change our minds. She did however get thank you note from the charities,and of course will be working this summer in order to add more money to the pot for her car. She is a sweet child and this was one of the hardest things I have ever had to do,but we have to find a way to get our children back from these fools.
Maggie,
I don’t see how giving your granddaughter ANY money for college, nor a car, is going to ‘convert’ her from liberal to conservative.
My parents had six kids, so could not afford to pay for any of such things, because–as they explained to us–’if they helped one kid, they’d have to help us all.’
So, if we wanted to further our educations beyond high school, we’d have to pay for it all ourselves. If we wanted a car, it was the same deal. We had to work for everything we wanted.
I chose to attend a business school, and had to get a loan. So, while I was going to school full-time, I had to work full-time–at the same time–just to make the payments.
Even when we were little, we rarely ever received any funds from our parents. If we wanted money for something, we’d have to do chores around the house. Even when our mother wanted to teach us the value of reading, she paid us a nickel, dime, quarter, etc. for each book we read (to prove we’d read the books, she read them all and quizzed us on them!).
We grew up understanding that nothing is free. And, that’s something your granddaughter needs to learn as well.
Catherine,
I was raised the same way.Took me 6 years to get through college.However,I did not raise this child,her two parents did and ,much as I love them,they really think she will just recover from this “phase”.As I stated,she is really a sweet child.
My feeling is she is going to college,once again surrounded by liberals. She,we hope, will have some experiece with what it costs all of us to give to people who have not earned it or perhaps do not really need it. The car is of course a want not a need.Hopefully another lesson for her.She may not have chosen to give the money away,but we did ,(just as the government does with my money)based on her philosophy,now that philosopy will actually cost her something. It is always easy to spout off your mouth if it does not cost something.
As far as doing things for our grandchildren,I know that is not what all believe in doing but we really would like to see our children enjoy some of what we have earned while we are alive. Just a personal choice.
“At a table with no salt shaker and a Michelle Obama-approved menu…”
This may be dismissed but this passive aggressive way of insulting the president’s wife for promoting healthy eating and exercise is a tactic reminiscent of when “liberals” called President Bush stupid.
The obesity levels found in children & adults within this country are staggering. To insult her — dig at her, “poke fun at”, what have you — for promoting a healthy diet is more of a turn off than an easy laugh, or at least it was for this “possible convert”
It also negates your complaints concerning democrats who will “attack the Republican women’s character”. The insults are not necessary from *either* side.
Aw, ‘Anonymous’ / ‘A Woman’, did you find the mild ridicule of the ‘No Salt Policy’ and Michelle disturbing?
You know, I’m far past the point where I care if you’re upset. I’m sick and tired of the left using their hurt feelings as a club, as a means of silencing debate, as a method of controlling conversation by assuming your outrage should automatically force us to be silent, lest we possibly offend you again.
Go lick a salt block. It’s got minerals in it. Just go to any feed store – they’ll tell ya.
Amen, JB71!
I am sick of their irrational over-sensitivities, too!
The Truth does not change, and that constant gives me hope and keeps me calm and rational.
No matter WHAT lie these folks insist on believing–nor how vehemently they argue their point–they will NEVER convince me to follow their fallacial worldview.
I know that, one day, Jesus will return; and when these poor lost souls SEE Him, they will be foreced to acknowledge that they’ve been wrong all along. So, if they refuse to believe me when I calmly point out the Truth, I don’t get upset. I merely hope and pray God opens their eyes before it’s too late.
Then, I just let it go.
“Fallacial” is not a word. Did you perhaps mean “fallacious?”
“Aw, ‘Anonymous’ / ‘A Woman’, did you find the mild ridicule of the ‘No Salt Policy’ and Michelle disturbing?”
Disturbing? No. I did find it unnecessary and weak. I find it hard to take a person seriously as a source of wisdom on any topic when they fill the apparent need to pepper their dissemination of knowledge with insults.
That unneeded dig ruined the article for me, and I know I am not alone in that feeling. And for someone who wants people to believe her way of doing “this this” is the right way, would not a person she might be addressing in this matter have an opinion worth considering?
“You know, I’m far past the point where I care if you’re upset. I’m sick and tired of the left using their hurt feelings as a club, as a means of silencing debate, as a method of controlling conversation by assuming your outrage should automatically force us to be silent, lest we possibly offend you again.”
If my opinion did not matter to you — which, by the way, was not addressed to you — you would not have felt a need to say anything to me. If you honestly are “past the point where [you] care if [I am] upset”, You never would have replied.
Best wishes!
A Woman
“this this” was meant to be “this thing”
A Woman
“Feel” not “fill”.
I apologize for all the spelling & errors today.
“The obesity levels found in children & adults within this country are staggering”
what about the hunger in america crusade then?
What about it? The two issues are not mutually exclusive.
Anonymous,
“The obesity levels found in children & adults within this country are staggering.”
I agree, the statistics ARE staggering! However, I find it odd that the Liberals (or Progressives, if you prefer) FIRST end Physical Education classes in our public schools, then decry the negative RESULTS of their failed policies–as if they had NO CLUE how this happened!
Do the math! 2 + 2 will ALWAYS equal 4. And, removing physical exercise from our children’s day will ALWAYS result in obesity. Not to mention, telling kids that physical exercise can hurt them doesn’t help, either!
And, as for us adults? In a free society, you cannot force any adult to do anything he/she does not WANT to do, even if it is good for them. And, let’s not forget here that the poor economy necessitates many adults working extra long hours or more than one job just to make ends meet and feed their families. That does not leave much time or energy to exercise. And, personally, I think our society’s addiction to electronic entertainment doesn’t help, either.
Physical exercise must be scheduled into each day, and that takes time, INTENT and forethought on the part of the individual.
Catherine B,
Hello.
“I agree, the statistics ARE staggering! However, I find it odd that the Liberals (or Progressives, if you prefer) FIRST end Physical Education classes in our public schools, then decry the negative RESULTS of their failed policies–as if they had NO CLUE how this happened!”
That did & still does anger me. But here it’s not “the liberals” that chose that path for our schools. Either way, it absolutely angers me that my children have not had the same level of exposure and experience with P.E./health and music/art that I had as a child in school.
As for the rest of your reply, I agree; especially regarding our addiction to technology. It’s not only ruining our physical health, it has had a serious impact on social graces. People not only seem to not know how to interact with others face to face as they once did, but the ease of rudeness and lack of true consequences so many embrace on the internet has infiltrated our society so very much that it scares me.
You sound like a thoughtful person, and the very fact that you’re reading and responding to Janine’s new post is encouraging to people like me. And I agree that a snarky response to the Michelle Obama healthy eating goal is counterproductive. However, here is the bigger picture: There’s not enough $ for music, arts & phys. ed programs because the staggering taxes we do pay for education (50% in my state, CA) are wasted…worse than wasted, actually, because our legislature is bought and paid for by the teachers unions, which have blocked every meaningful legislation that’s come down the pike in the last 40 years — charters, school choice, getting rid of ‘social promotion’, raising standards for students and teachers, accountability, etc. Just giving parents the choice as to where to send their children to school (like they have in Sweden) would free up many millions. Getting rid of the worst 10% of teachers would save many millions. And requiring means testing on the families who apply for free breakfasts & lunches (most of which go in the trash — ask anyone who works in a school lunchroom) would save many millions. And Michelle Obama recently suggested we start giving students dinner too. Hell, why not just have them move in — they could visit their homes on holidays, like Ramadan (sorry…) The bigger issue is, the only states currently with economies that are not on the brink of bankruptcy are run by Republicans (i.e. Texas, South Dakota, Indiana), and the ones in the worst trouble are all Dems — CA, NY, IL. Women don’t need the government paying for their contraception — they need more personal choice, more freedom, more accountability.
Two things, Anonymous,
1) I apologize. I mistakenly responded to you, rather than “Daxypoo,” regarding the comment he/she made about the staggering obesity statistics; and
2) Unfortunately, our public school system has always been controlled by the liberals–regardless of who was or is president. The Dept of Education and the NEA are both run by liberals. (http://www.teachersunionexposed.com/)
‘Physical exercise must be scheduled into each day, and that takes time, INTENT and forethought on the part of the individual.’
Yes, on the part of the individual. Not the school.
“At a table with no salt shaker and a Michelle Obama-approved menu…”
This may be dismissed but this passive aggressive way of insulting the president’s wife for promoting healthy eating and exercise is a tactic reminiscent of when “liberals” called President Bush stupid.
The obesity levels found in children & adults within this country are staggering. To insult her — dig at her, “poke fun at”, what have you — for promoting a healthy diet is more of a turn off than an easy laugh, or at least it was for this ‘possible convert’.
It also negates your complaints concerning democrats who will “attack the Republican women’s character”. The insults are not necessary from *either* side.
The insults are not necessary from *either* side.
You say that as if you actually think that we’re not familiar with the outrageously insulting comments that are a staple of Left-wing sites. I seriously doubt that you go to those sites to preach tolerance and respect. Your hypocrisy severely limits your credibility when it comes to the issue of civility.
The problem with converting anyone is intellectual investment. This is particularly troublesome for the self-styled experts who got somebody to issue them a degree in some such. No one wants to admit that “everything I believe is wrong.” You reading this are not about to admit it. You’ve received alot of conflicting information over your life, have separated the wheat from the chaff, and accepted what is palatable to your mind. To change would be like erasing the chiseled face of an obelisk or the Rosetta Stone. It does not change your mind. It makes you start from scratch and no one over the age of 25 wants to do that. Ideas change over time not because people’s minds were changed. The Confederates did not change their minds after 1865. The just sulked, and dreamed of the Lost Cause. What changes ideas is death and the New Guard replaces the Old Guard. Hence, you’ve got to get em while their young. Anybody ready for a March through the Institutions from the Right this time?
Greetings & welcome, Ms. Turner. Been a fan of yours since Northern Exposure. Glad you’ve kept your head and not become a Hollywood liberal. You’re off to a great start with your maiden column. Will definitely be reading from now on.
“This dialogue quickly deteriorates into a misinformed, Obama-fueled fiasco: the wicked “one percent,” the “fairness” of free health care, equal outcomes rather than equal opportunities, etc.”
I think the following quote is attributed to Mark Twain: “If you don’t read newspapers, you’ll be uninformed. If you do read newspapers, you’ll be misinformed.”
Janine,
Welcome! Your passion for conservatism is refreshing! It’s nice to know there are famous actresses who are not ‘lost in liberalism.’
My take on the Lefties is even simpler. They lack something in their makeup:
A relationship with the Source of Love (God), to the point where they even try to deny His existence. Where Love (I capitalize Agape Love because God IS Love) seeks Truth, these folks will believe any lie fed to them and refuse to acknowledge, nor accept, Truth as if it were a cup of Strychnine we were trying to poison them with! And, I think that’s why they are so quick to strike back with foul language or personal attacks–even violence, sometimes–when they are given the Truth (regardless of how it’s communicated).
In fact, there are several Bible Scriptures that describe these types of people. For example, Ecclesiastes 10:2-3; and John 8:42-47 are just 2 of these.
Personally, I wish it were as easy as merely providing truthful logic to such folks for them to finally ‘get it.’ I’m glad you’re on our side, Janine!
Many of the responses make the point clearly, that liberals simply will not be swayed by reason or logic. Anything presented that challenges their preconceptions and propaganda is immediately trivialized, diminshed, and rejected off-hand, (often by the attmept to hide behind “the center” as an excuse)
When the Alinsky formula, “the ends justifies the means,” has become so widely accepted, outright lying has become a primary tool, and they can’t help but project their primary methodolgy onto others.
While I applaud the attempt, I can see very limited chance for success.
Greetings, Janine!
I LOVED your 90/90 Constitution and Federalist Papers project.
Any chance you’ll repeat it?
Excellent; author, points, reasoning and article. Bravo!
1) Yep! Always keep on point
2) A debate scenario tends to have one party straying into pointless dead-ends (ala Bill Maher and John Stewart). Study these two emcees, they’re the standard for debate with marxist/leninistas.
3) Understand every fundamental basis for a “Progressive’s” philosphy on everything “Life!” (this one’s easy- study marx/lenin and its variants in today’s society- wikileaks is an o.k. source).
4) Remember, a debate with the left is like herding a bunch of cats into taking a bath…patience!
Then sit down. Let each topic flow (remember always, you’re “herding cats to take a bath”).Identify the crux of each topic (in this case,”the bath”). This tends to get one major topic going in ones direction – always remember, cats hate water.
The left’s hatred of “the bath” is ingrained into their psyche…no change will ever occur. But your patience, persistence on one single topic, planted a seed. Your garden will grow from that one seed.
Education in America is dominated by Fabian Socialists…so, work on one topic at a time. You have a few minutes to erase 12 years (or more) of marxist/ leninist indoctrination. God Bless America.
Wow Janine, well done. I love PJ TV and think you are spot on.
Thank you for this post. I believe I will enjoy reading your columns.
Janine,
Been a fan long time. Became a better fan when you came across as a Conservative. Now, even bigger fan.
Glad you hooked up with some winners.
Saludos,
John
You can’t believe how many Conservative lesbians there are who will be voting for Mitt. If the left only knew. Be prepared, you Liberals, we will be coming out of the closet to vote against Obama.
This piece is excellent. In my experience, conservative men don’t behave much differently. It would have been better to direct it at all conservatives. Although, given that women tend to “go along to get along” with their fellow moms or girlfriends, perhaps shaking that tree first is a good idea.
Thank you!
Janine,
I remember you from ‘Northern Exposure’; I loved that sitcom. In fact I am moving to Talkeetna (AK) in June of 2013; I believe Talkeetna was the inspiration for the town of Cicely in ‘Northern Exposure’. Anyway, I thoroughly enjoyed your post; its thoughtful, perceptive and bold. Welcome to PJ Media and I am truly looking forward to reading many more of your posts!
God Bless,
Bill
As almost every post has said, you cannot convert a liberal by telling them the facts. They end up frustrated and resorting to ad hominem attacks. I have found that if someone knows you for a while, and likes you, you can eventually get them to admit to a grudging half-agreement and you make them think more intelligently about the issues. I am a 90 year-old male and therefore have known a lot of women during my lifetime. I have converted many a lady liberal to a recognition of the conservative point of view. But you have to like them and they have to like you for anything to happen. As for men liberals, I don’t bother. When they get to the ad hominem stage, I point that that is the last resort of the party which is proved wrong but cannot admit it.
Love the article. Watch all Fox shows only and watch you and you always have the truth and know how to deliver it. Hope they have you on more, since it appears they are hiring alot of liberals and that is very bad. Having both sides to hear is a good idea but the liberals they have enlisted are very extreme and might lose some viewership. Too bad not another station to watch very upset about this. Your writing is similar to your talking respect and dignity are important and you have that hands down.
I have enjoyed the comments that have been made in reply to this column.
Many people have said that liberals don’t listen to facts.
My problem with this column is that Janine doesn’t actually give very many facts. She states many opinions, but rarely cites anything that gives information.
As she says in ‘G’ Knowledge is power. What I know from reading her contribution is what her opinion is.
I would be so much happier if she had cited more publications that were not other columns that she has written elsewhere.
Publications: Wall Street Journal editorial page (the rest of it leans center/left)
Investor’s Business Daily
City Journal (Incredibly smart guys writing about everything; Rudy Gulliani said that when he was trying to clean up NYC, he didn’t make a move w/o consulting City Journal.
National Review, The Week, American Spectator
Anything by Thomas Sowell, Victor Davis Hansen, Charles Krauthammer, Peggy Noonan, and of the WSJ writers, Walter Williams, Michael Barone, Scott Rasmussen (he has a new book out called THE PEOPLE’S MONEY, which goes into great depth about why Americans so mistrust all policians.) Also, you MUST be familiar with Paul Ryan’s economic and health care plans — a serious grownup offering real solutions to our staggering economic problems; by contrast, Dems haven’t even proposed a budget (let alone a comprehensive plan for anything) in three years.
Ginny, thank you for your citations.
Have enjoyed your commentaries on O’Reilly’s Factor. Glad to see that we don’t have “yet another” Hollywierd liberal helping kill our Republic.
It may be impossible to convert liberals, but at least conservative women who push back might be able to garner a teensy bit more respect.
In the leftoonacy, all conservatives are by definition white men, regardless of actual skin color or sex. A Tom Sowell gets a little more respect because he is at least a black white man. A conservative woman is better because she is a female white man. I suppose a black female conservative has the best chance, being a black female white man.
Janine:
Great debut article. I love the “girlfriend” mnemonic – it helps to remember the points. My Democrat friends always seem to think that their party has been responsible for each and every women’s (and race, and labor, etc.) issue breakthrough in US history. Thanks for laying this out so clearly.
I just want to say that the Marxist, Anti-Christ by definition, but it even worse that Islam, because it even denies that there is a Spiritual world unlike Islam, which is the ONLY SIN that can never be forgiven, either in this world or the next! Tell me that our marxist Thomas Dewey inspired school system has not done it’s job? CIA anyone? Duh! Just saying…
You are a fantastic voice on the Right side Janine. I will definitely be following your columns. Your work with the Constitution in the classroom is a godsend. I mourn the loss of my brother to liberalism and relate to this column and follow up comments. There is definitely a barrier in the liberal mindset beyond which they retreat when their foundation is shaken by facts. They back away from conversation and/or seek absolution from their liberal friends. David Mamet’s book “Secret Knowledge” really lays it out. Conversion to the Right by a liberal seems to be a very personal and quiet undertaking, but it is happening. Let’s keep the information flowing so Right thinking minds can save this Country.
Welcome Janine.
Logic and reason alone aren’t really good enough for converting lefties, unfortunately. You’ve got to hit ‘em where it hurts. Many who believe themselves to be leftists or Democrats are simply not thinking things through. They are somewhat lazy in their thinking. But if you put them in the shoes of someone being harmed by leftist thinking, common sense will be obvious to them. For example, there was a video of students who support progressive ideology to give up a portion of their grade point average to another student whose GPA is lower, either through lower intelligence or laziness. The progressive was aghast at the thought of simply handing over what they worked so hard to achieve. This forced them to at least consider their demand for progressive taxation.
Would it be possible to invent a less convincing Democrat conversion plan? Probably, yes. But this will do for now.
I don’t think she’s or any of us are)naive enough to think we can convince Liberals. The best we can do is make our case to independents. I suspect you are the former, and would defend the stranglehold that the unions have on our schools (and they’ve done such a bang-up job, haven’t they? Dems have controlled the entire school system in this country for 40 years and we’ve gone from leading the world to, well, I think we’re still above Zimbabwe. College charges have tripled in the last twenty years (even healthcare has only gone up 150%), our kids know nothing, can do nothing, expect the world, blame us for all its problems — and their own. How about being pro-choice — in schools (like they have in Sweden), pro-choice in retirement investments instead of the failing Social “Security” program (like they have in Chile), pro choice in energy (exploiting our natural resources like they do in Canada, Finland, Norway, even China — everywhere but here! Even Cuba is going to be drilling off our coast, but Obama goes to Brazil and promises them we’ll buy bizillions of their gallons of oil and have it shipped up here instead of drilling our own, which would make us truly energy independent within 20 years.) Which Democratic plan would you say is working? Anything?
Welcome Ms. Turner: I worked in the cultural industry for many years — specifically eight years in New York trade book publishing. I have a fair idea of the headwinds a writer, producer, director, or actor encounters in Hollywood who is not of Hollywood. I had a faint idea of your “reputation” as a conservative. Only recently I read an short interview with Jim Caviezal (sp?) in the Detroit News about his new show. It was prefaced with a consumer warning about his “strong conservative” views. (Which he refused to discuss by the way.) What other professional in the business receives this sort of profiling? The writer still felt compelled to ask him about Mel Gibson — apropos what?
Again welcome. I look forward to reading you in future. I wish I had met just one woman like you in the book business. Great luck in this new setting.
Women aren’t stupid plays well with Mitt and Ann Romney’s phrase, “It IS the Economy and we AREN’T STUPID.”
I’ve been puzzled and annoyed for months that so many who consider themselves conservatives have been willing to drum Mr. Romney out before the election and insist on candidates who can’t possibly win in the general. Nobody without substantial funding and good organization can possibly hope to win, yet too many from the Tea Party seemed to think they should insist on people who haven’t prepared for this challenge.
I welcome you here because the right is building its own media to spread the news and reason. And women outside the big liberal enclaves have common sense and need to share it.
Janine, I have a couple of suggestions:
1) Keep talking when O’Reilly interrupts you. It’s the only way. Learn to do what Dana Perino does with her voice when people talk over her. You have a wonderfully pleasant voice, but O’Reilly is a bit of a bull in a china shop.
2) I think you need a bigger photo, not that I am admitting to any male stereotypes.
Seriously, it was an excellent beginning and I’m sure your to-the-point clarity will be well appreciated.
Welcome, Janine. I have admired you for many years–even before I knew any of your views. I am a woman, a Conservative, and I work primarily in the Arts community. I have started telling people what I think simply because I can’t sit silent at another table full of my Liberal friends while they spew opinions that they just assume I must agree with because they actually like me. When they find out I am a Republican their brains short out like the robot in Lost in Space as their psyche chants, “Danger! Danger!”. It just doesn’t compute. I do try talking to them just because I have to for my own sanity. I refuse to let silence seem like agreement any more. I doubt I will change any minds. I do notice, though, that they are not as likely to just bulldoze over people with their little screeds when I am present. I have pointed out thier “Intolerance” and the fact that they are not “Inclusive” of my views. It makes them crazy. It also makes them re-word their comments–however grudgingly.
Always liked Janine. (Northern Exposure).
A Liberal has the mentality of an adolescent. An adolescent doesn’t want to be moral. That would mean no sex! Adolescents shun responsibility. See previous. Liberals gravitate to academia because you can show how smart you are without having to accomplish anything. I could go on.
great intro column Janine and I’ve shared it…
go GIRLFRIENDS!
This article is bad, and you should feel bad.
Why, exactly?
I’m not sure why you should feel bad. The article is bad because Janine references previous articles of hers far too often. She doesn’t know how to use bullets. There are no useful citations that give information other than Janine’s opinions.
Democrat: Can you believe the Republicans are taking away our contraception?
Me: Please pass the salt.
Of course, the irony will be lost on them, but still…
You use that word, but I don’t think you know what it means
I would be unable to remain silent. But I have found that Liberals are incapable of understanding truth of any kind. They live in a delusionary, fantasy world. Still, I have no problem going toe to toe and nose to nose with them. I just explain that if they are trying to engage in a battle of wits, they will be coming in unarmed.
Janine,
Glad you jumped into the frying pan. Your refreshing insight will spread rapidly. I guess Your Hollywood days are over. Best wishes and I look forward to reading your works. God bless Texas.
Best wishes,
Michael R. Kulley
the Democrats’ conversation starts like this:
“Can you believe the Republicans are taking away our contraception?”
The tactic I use to at least stop the Liberal attack in its tracks right at this point is, 1] to try to anticipate well beforehand what your opponent Liberal might say at any time, especially just right out of the blue or at awkward times such as at a friendly luncheon or around relative strangers – this happens to me quite a lot; and therefore, 2] have a *one-liner* ready to respond with for each potential attack. I guarantee that a good one-liner always stops a Lib’s particular attack, although they might simply then go onto another one, and another..depending on how many of them there are physically present compared to little old me.
Once I spent about an hour at one of these classic “dinner traps” defending against 3 Liberals who presented me with one liberal meme after another. I won every round by already having a one-liner prepared for each of their successive “dumb ass memes” – a term I’m ready to explicitly employ against Libs if the situation is right for it. We must have covered almost all of the usual Liberal tropes. However I was even able to eat and enjoy my dinner at the same time, because I had prepared specifically for each meme and knew this kind of thing might happen exactly when I’d much rather be enjoying a good meal! It also helps to not drink alcohol if you think this might happen to you. And so I hadn’t.
As for actually converting Liberals, it’s going to be a much longer slag. But within the small circle of acquaintences I’m dealing with above, I might have a chance with some of them if I can establish my credibility via intelligent one liners that go to the core of the issue. Some of these people have then seemed more receptive to fact and logic. The more hard core Libs just get more close-mouthed, so I’m going to have to go after them more aggressively.
You’re going to have to figure out your own one liner to respond to the “birth control” example above. I simply don’t have a good enough one ready, although I’d want to immediately turn the discussion onto Obamacare and the fact that Obamacare can tell everyone what “healthcare” is and who is going to get what “free”. Some Liberals might find that they really do not like Obamacare once they begin to realize these things.
Nice first post. Welcome aboard.
Good article, Janine, and welcome.
I’ll bet I’ve tried all your suggestions as well as most of those offered by commenters. I don’t consider that any tactics/techniques work on hard core Libs with any regularity and to my mind, they’re a lost cause.
Therefore, as commanded by my Savior, I love them and pray for them, but avoid talking politics with any as it is a waste of my time and raises my blood pressure.
Occasionally I run across a “convert” but don’t remember ever changing any minds myself. Limbaugh, Hannity and Levin are much better at cracking their hard heads so I’ll be leaving the job to the professionals.
Someone once said: In any argument between a rational person and an irrational person, the rational person will likely be the loser. Remember you are arguing with an irrational person.
“At a table with no salt shaker and a Michelle Obama-approved menu, the Democrats’ conversation starts like this:
Can you believe the Republicans are taking away our contraception?”
I love it. Right out of the box, you’ve nailed the half-baked Left. Thank you so much for coming to PJM, Janine. I have come across your political contributions, I think on FOX, in the past, and you think like I do and so many other proud Americans. Kick ass, baby. We need all the truth we can get here.
Janine -
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
The president and his ilk appeal to the lowest common denominator – we have not really smart people winning the hearts and votes of not really smart people!
The administration and its hand picked czars is not made up of the brightest of sparks !
Oby makes Dan Quayl look like a spelling wizard.
Obys knowledge of geography sucks – it’s right up there with his understanding of mathematics and finance.
As to his capacity for teaching anything having to do with the Constitution in a positive sense – you have got to be kidding me!
A simple minded – bad assed communist with the Alinsky handbook tucked into his waist band – that is who we have to deal with – plus his select – carefully chosen socialist and communist friends who guide and direct our ‘one world president’!
With George Soros handling the funding – Oby taking care of the prevaricating and outright lying and the first lady laying out a healthy lunch – the commu-crats think that they have won the election already.
We can’t let it happen people – never again!
Even if we can’t convert them, we can still irritate the #%*@!$ out of them!
Everyone, please go and “LIKE” this facebook page https://www.facebook.com/ConservativeWomanTour We conservative women are taking our country back in the RIGHT direction!!! Thanks!!!
Think of the 40/50 million babies aborted. One or more o them who could have been the one to find the cure for CANCER. Yes the Democrat ladies want their pills. And they will continue to kill the babies inside their wombs. They never stop to think that their mothers could have aborted them. Thanks for the opprtunity to make a comment. Ton
Your Freedom of religion does not give you the right to tell other Americans what they can or cannot do. If you want to look for someone to control I suggest you start with yourself.
Exactly, Ozzy! Note that Obamacare’s very first healthcare decree was that we all must pay for “free” Birth Control. What’s next on Progressivism’s holy list, a “free” Vegan diet?
Janine,
Bravo! Thank you for fighting the good fight!
Love your Constituting America site!
Welcome, and thank you Janine Turner.
Knowledge is power, and we have to know the facts that back us up. We have to know the underlying principles, the history and the documents on which we stand. I doubt that anyone will be converted with an information dump, I know I was not. What I have seen work has been using questions to erode the certainty of the ‘liberal’ positions. Eventually the progressive fog will collapse, leaving them with much clearer vision.
(I apologize for mixing my metaphors…I was subjected to a progressive education.)
Back up your rhetoric with a determination to vote the Obama Regime and his minions out of office on November 6th 2012. Tell your friends and family we need their vote to save America!
You can’t convert someone whose opinions are not based on facts.
Ms. Turner, it gives me hope when Hollywood celebrities brave ostracism and come forward. Onward!
You can’t convert someone whose opinions are not based on facts.
Ms. Turner, it gives me hope when Hollywood celebrities brave ostracism and come forward. Consider making True the Vote one of your causes.
Onward!
Oh Janine. You’re living in an alternate reality. Bizarro world, really. It’s not as Herpa Derp and insane as Victoria Jackson’s, but it’s close.
I think the one problem I have here is Jane’s statistic about job loss under Obama. First, I think it is fair to discount the private sector job loss during the first 3 months of 2009 since it was too early for any of Obama’s policies to have had an effect. Keeping that in mind, private sector job numbers are back to 2009 levels. Second, women are disproportionately represented in teaching and it is one of the sectors that has had the worst job losses. But that is a state issue, and those states which cut teaching numbers the most were Republican, led by Texas of course. So I am wary of Jane’s comments on jobs, as they seem misleading and full of fluff and pomp without much analysis. I would prefer some real thought about such a serious issue, not some gimmick of “girlfriend”.
In my experience there are two types of liberals. We’ll call them the true believers and the tag-alongs.
The true believers are the elites of the group. They are the leaders, professors, intellectuals and so forth. They really believe in the liberal cause and embrace it wholeheartedly. Many of them have thought their beliefs through quite thoroughly. In the case of the true believers in my own family, I have found that their devotion to the cause comes down to basic core values. They value ideals such as wealth redistribution, environmental regulation, “social justice” and so forth far above individual freedom, fiscal restraint and so forth. You will never change these peoples’ political beliefs.
The far greater number are the tag-alongs. These are the masses of disenfranchised, stupid, gullible, or greedy who affiliate themselves with the liberals for their own reasons. Many of them – possibly the majority – think of themselves as liberals because that is all they were ever taught. At home, at school and at the workplace they were surrounded by like-minded individuals. The few conservatives they knew kept their views to themselves.
Other tag-alongs have heard the liberal rhetoric and fallen for it. Many of these believe that the “smart people” are all liberals (since this is how liberals self-identify), and so by labeling themselves as liberal and adopting the same beliefs as these “Smart people”, they too will be smart. This group includes many college students who don’t have enough life experience to know any better. Many of these will grow more conservative later in life, but not before casting their first several votes for the column with the “D”.
Still other tag-alongs believe that they have something to gain from the Democrats. They’ve grown dependent on government handouts, manipulative union laws and so forth.
The good news is that the much larger group of tag-alongs is still susceptible to reason and logic. Often you have to sneak it in piece by piece, stroking their ego the whole time as you lead them to “discover” flaws in the logic of those they idolized. But they are susceptible and can be converted with enough time and effort.
Janine -
Talk about convincing and converting a Communist Democrat or ‘commu-crat’ – I see it as pretty much of a lost cause.
Liberals have an especially tough time with people harboring high intelligence quotients – in-depth subject knowledge – particularly in command and leadership categories and people who have high moral standards and work ethics!
Cummu-crats will fill the air with their ‘commu-facts’ which are anything but truths – and after getting just enough power – camps will be instituted offering a required course in “Walking With Carl and Saul.” ( that would be Carl Marx and Saul Alinsky – our nations top cummu-crat is especially fond of Alinsky!) And by the way – these classes will be required!
When and ‘if’ you return from your ‘re-education session’ the plan is for you to be a better and more easily controlled citizen.
I don’t plan on going to camp!
Looking forward to four more years of Obama so it will foster more inane articles like this. You cons better learn to toughen up a bit, get your therapy lined up and get your crying towels ready because Obama is going to crush Rmoney.
You can’t persuade true liberals through reason or emotion. They like alcoholics must hit bottom on their own. Only then will they listen, and most will have to figure it out for themselves.
You can persuade the folks in the middle. When you argue against the liberal line in a group setting, your goal is to change the minds of those who are not on either side. In essence you are waiting for the bystanders to pick the argument that makes the most sense to them. Engage the liberal’s argument and then ask the questions where the argument breaks down seeking clarification. Once the liberal has, by their own responses, demonstrated their argument is invalid. Then offer your counter position.
Always be calm, friendly, and inquiring. We don’t need to persuade any liberal anywhere to accomplish the salvation of this nation, we only need the undecideds to decide in our favor.
Very nice article. Certain things show the hypocrisy of Republicans, though. I’ll single out one: “Debt is the biggest threat to our national security.”
What have the Republicans seriously done about debt in the last 15 years? Added to it is what. When the class of 2010 tried to stop the “business as usual” raising of the debt ceiling, the establishment Republicans called them crazy hobbits.
And now big-government fake conservative Paul Ryan’s budget plan adds trillions to the debt and doesn’t balance the budget for three decades. That’s insane. If spending was cut back to 2006 or 07 levels, the budget would be balanced immediately. Not the easiest thing to do? Maybe not, but it shouldn’t take 30 freakin’ years either.
Only part I disagree with Janine,
“F: Fuel and Energy Policies Are a Farce. Want your child’s transportation to be a horse? Be a Democrat”
PETA would complain, so no horses.
Janine, Welcome to PJMedia.
I used to watch you on Northern Exposure. I had no idea you are an “out” conservative. As a person who also works in entertainment industry, I know that it takes guts to go up against ones peers, the lib/prog/commie establishment that is Hollywood these days. More and more of us are “coming out” on the RIGHT side now and I am happy to see it, but also well aware the backlash and consequences of doing so. Maybe we need a secret handshake or signal? There is still a SILENT MINORITY in USA and we still have a vote.
Enjoyed yor article and doing my best to sway, swing and get them to listen to reason and facts.
I could rip most of the posts here, but I don’t have the time. Here’s just one example of the total intellectual dishonesty in this piece.
“R: Republicans Are the Women’s Party. Want your daughter to be constrained by government? Be a Democrat.
Republicans supported the 19th Amendment, extending voting rights to America’s women. Democrats didn’t.
A Republican, Senator A. A. Sargent, introduced the 19th Amendment.
A Democrat-controlled U.S. Congress denied women their right to vote by refusing to pass the 19th Amendment. Four times.
A Republican-controlled U.S. Congress finally passed the 19th Amendment.
During the ratification process, eight of the nine states that did not ratify the amendment had Democrat-controlled state legislatures.”
This is factually right but intellectually entirely wrong. The parties have switched ideologically since the 19th amendment was passed. This is akin to saying African Americans should support the Republicans because they freed the slaves.
The “Democratic” senators and states that didn’t want to pass the amendment are in Republican hands now because of the switch thanks Nixon’s Southern Strategy. So you are technically right, but the ideological successors of those people who didn’t want to give women the right to vote are Republicans… those Democrats were the conservatives of the time.
But hey, don’t let reality get in the way of a good argument, right?
You took the words right off of my page! I couldn’t articulate the thoughts as well as you have. Thank you.
Sam – you and Anon and Larry have been hand selected as ‘commu-crat’ Pulitzer type winners for today!
I know that there are more that could be considered but I am just to busy to search for any more classic writers.
I really feel that working toward a mind change involving the thought processes of a ‘commu-crat’ would be a drastic waste of time – re-education and labor programs are the answer – coupled with occasional water-boarding classes and twelve step ‘truth telling’ sessions!
Thank you Janine for reaching out!
Rhodesway, please point out to me how what Sam said makes him a ‘commu-crat?
Flying in the face of fact!
It’s the attitude and the arrogance that cries out all of your postures – but hey, don’t let reality get in the way of a good argument, right?
“Republicans supported the 19th Amendment, extending voting rights to America’s women. Democrats didn’t.
A Republican, Senator A. A. Sargent, introduced the 19th Amendment.
A Democrat-controlled U.S. Congress denied women their right to vote by refusing to pass the 19th Amendment. Four times.
A Republican-controlled U.S. Congress finally passed the 19th Amendment.
During the ratification process, eight of the nine states that did not ratify the amendment had Democrat-controlled state legislatures.”
As tough as it is for facts to get in the way – the facts here are clear – the Republicans should take the full blame for shepherding the 19th Amendment from concept to fruition .
The Democrats who defeated the proposed bill four times will have to stand as losers in their day – and we should all pray that they continue on as losers in the next election.
Dude – Nixon tried to attract conservatives in the South who had been alienated by the Democratic support for the Civil Rights movement.
Only a ‘commu-crat’ would use the ‘blame anybody but Oby’ routine – but Nixon is a stretch !
OK, I see that you are also having problems with getting your facts straight, even when you have said that you know the facts.
Many Southern states have been voting Republican since Nixon’s presidency. You agree with that, I read it with my own eye. So it isn’t Obama that caused them to vote Republican. DUH!
You Republicans, always putting your faith in Hollywood celebrities like Victoria Jackson and now Janine Turner… wait, never mind. You’re safe with them. (Or any other junior high writer by the looks of this article.)
The internet and our education system are destroying our children’s minds; information is coming out from all sides , from different parts of the world. People are uniting online and expressing ideas. It’s becoming a sick and Godless place.
The only way to solve this problem is to shutdown the information flow (internet), and choke out the education system.
When Romney becomes President, he needs to execute his power and set up a Ministry of Information and Propaganda which filters out misinformation (evolution science, physics which goes against the laws of God) and propagates our Message and Faith.
Have you read the book by George Orwell “1984?”
You are frighteningly close to proposing the government described in that book.
Wow. There is so much wrong with that statement. It’s against the Bill of Rights which you consevatives are supposedly upholding. Really the restiction of the internet would create an extremely uninformed society. In fact, that is probably the real liberal/conservative speaking there. That is why 70% of the US is centrist. The left and right are insane.
Janine, I totally agree with you, but as I once read, trying to convert a Liberal/Democrat is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end. I think that came from John Hawkins. Keep up the good fight.
Janine, so nice to see you at PJMedia. I like your list of practical talking points and will employ them next time the opportunity presents itself. You’re right: The stakes are too high to remain silent.
By the way, a number of years ago I was immobilized while recovering from a broken ankle and re-runs of Northern Exposure provided me with healing laughter and saved me from terminal boredom. Thank you!
“What happens if the wind doesn’t blow?”
you are kidding, right?
I hate to be a stickler here, and don’t mean to digress, but please note the below –
Contraception is not the only means of birth control. Contraception, in my understanding, consists of these:
1. Condoms
2. Diaphragms
3. The rhythm method
The other type of birth control, taken in pill form, is not true contraception but an abortifacient. Birth control pills are not true contraception.
Traditional birth control pills, the ones that are taken daily are not abortifacients, they are hormone pills. The action they have on the body is to suppress the eggs from being released into the womb.
Sorry, I stopped typing too soon.
If there is no egg in the womb, there can be no embryo, no fetus, no abortion.
The actual effect is that the woman is barren.
Sam – you and Anon and Larry have been hand selected as ‘commu-crat’ Pulitzer type winners for today!
I know that there are more that could be considered but I am just to busy to search for any more classic writers.
I really feel that working toward a mind change involving the thought processes of a commu-crat would be a drastic waste of time – re-education and labor programs are the answer – coupled with occasional water-boarding classes and twelve step ‘truth telling’ sessions!
Thank you Janine for reaching out!
Want truth and reason without name-calling? Ok. Americans are not buying the “religious freedom” stance.
Americans overwhelmingly regard the debate over President Barack Obama’s policy on employer-provided contraceptive coverage as a matter of women’s health, not religious freedom, rejecting Republicans’ rationale for opposing the rule. More than three-quarters say the topic shouldn’t even be a part of the U.S. political debate. More than six in 10 respondents to a Bloomberg National Poll — including almost 70 percent of women — say the issue involves health care and access to birth control. http://j.mp/A2wRbN
I understand what YOU believe the Republican position is, Janine. But America at large understands what Republicans are really trying to do here.
“…They do not enter the fray because they know the risks. They know that the Democrats, not able to defend their wiles with wisdom, will attack the Republican women’s character….” ~Janine Turner
Yes, let’s peruse this comment section alone and witness all the ways conservatives were simply “reasonable”, “wise”, “truthful”… and did not attack the character of liberals or Democrats… nor engaged in any name-calling… as we Democrats look at each other with an unspoken, secret “OMG”
This might the most poorly written and dumbest thing I have ever read. The only thing she sites for her ‘facts’ are more editorial and opinion pieces. Stallone should of let you fall in ‘Cliffhanger’.
I think you are missing the point here… the debate about whether or not Catholic employers’ insurances must cover birth control was only one facet of this phenomena. In Arizona, a bill has been introduced that would require women to prove to their employers that they need birth control for medical reasons if they want the prescription to be covered by their insurance, the Texas legislature recently turned down a $35 million dollar federal grant for women’s health, and consequently thousands of women will be unable to afford basic health care, and the republican party fought hard against VAWA, which was enacted to protect women from violence and to help rehabilitate survivors and victims. There have been more abortion restrictions enacted and introduced last year than in any other year since Roe v. Wade BY FAR. (to give context, in 2000 20 provisions were enacted by state legislatures, in 2011 135 provisions were enacted. Recently a Planned Parenthood clinic (a venue that literally exists to care for women and their health) was bombed. Whether you believe in abortion should be legal or not, you must at least understand that many women see criminalizing abortion as a form of taking away a women’s control over her own body, and taking away her freedom. Similarly, whether or not you believe it is moral for women to use birth control to avoid pregnancy, you must understand that many women see birth control as basic health care, and fundamental to their autonomy and ability to determine their own futures. Without insurance coverage many women would not be able to afford birth control, or the autonomy that comes with it. These are just a very few reasons that many people are up in arms about the republican war on women, and for you to suggest that this belief is based on one singular event is positively ludicrous.
If you would like to win people over to thinking rationally, I would leave out the part about their idiocy. I believe anything other than kindness when speaking with those you consider “girlfriends” is illogical, irrational, and maybe we should allow our friends to have their own beliefs, because they are in fact our friends, who were most likely chosen for their personality and not solely their beliefs. Anyone who has lost a friend to political discussion deserves it, relationships fail when both people are solely atoms of self interest. I want to see an article that doesn’t make republican women look mean and unintelligent, I want to see an article that leaves out the attacks to make room for a logical, reasonable, and intelligent proposal for why the republican party is a good choice, instead of why the democratic party is a bad one. If you convince a person that the democratic party is an unrealistic option but do so only with attacks and short unsupported arguments, you are liable to turn them off to both, and with a viable third party nowhere in sight, that is a dangerous recipe for apathy and a sense of complete hopelessness.
I, too, welcome a woman who is, unlike me, willing to lose friends over politics. LarryKat is right, there is no reason to listen to celebrities from Hollywood and New York, which is why I don’t, but an awful lot of those celebrities seem to feel they are needed to speak for Democrats. Maybe they know something, and if it takes someone from Hollywood to speak to the people, then conservative Hollywoodites should have their say as well.
Why is everyone talking about contraception as if it is only a women’s issue? It’s a people issue! Really, there is no longer, if there ever was, immaculate conception, and “safe sex” really includes condoms, which are available in gas stations and convenience stores as well as drug stores and I believe will be sold to anyone. So, contraception is available at low cost to anyone, even children. Of all the trumped up noises, this is one of the worst!
Janine,
You are smart. The ladies you describe are not. We’re worn out from trying to reason with them. Any advice on how to get the point across to people who just plain don’t have the capacity? I’m beginning to think that’s the real problem – you just can’t argue, debate or reason with the lefties until they might have some life-altering experience that shows them how lame their own thinking is. Thanks for being at the front of the crusade, we need a gazillion more women just like you!
Janine,
Love your concept, and with some cleanup of the bullets, and a little more sophistication of some comcepts, would be a good handbook for women to use with other women. I often feel trapped as a man when I try to go outside my circles, and I get pretty promptly shut off. Men don’t seem to want to discuss politics with the opposite party, unless it involves those who’s careers are politics. Occasionally, I add a Dem to my political sendouts, and either get ignored or a complaint back. I find only one person willing to discuss his views, and they are aged back to the great depression.
These are all wonderful talking points to bring light to the darkened mind of a liberal. But such a mind does not respond to facts and logic and the implications for the the future of failed policies of the past. Would you try to talk a Christian out of accepting Jesus Christ as his/her savior?
What has worked for me is the benign deviousness of posing as a conservative with doubts. My Democrat college pores the energy of a true believer into bringing me into the fold. I just keep asking questions born of logic. The answers get ever more internally inconsistent, evasive and/or oblique. My interlocutor’s frustration builds along with my mirth. Reasons to smile buzz about like bees. Good old fashioned Democrat physical exhaustion or exasperation or rage ends the Q and A.
When talking to a liberal about politics go for entertainment, not votes.
At my first Tea Party, in Santa Monica, California, I was amazed at all the well known celebrity liberals who pulled over and laughingly took pictures of my placard. It said, “Nancy Peloosi, Help Taxpayers, Lose The Jet, Use Your Broom!”. Apparently the liberals in Santa Monica don’t like her either.
Wow. If this is what passes for intelligent commentary in the conservative community, maybe the opportunity for reasoned discussion is no longer on the table.
In this article, that lady from that old TV show has done little more than created distorted, simplistic caricatures of liberalism to use as whipping boys for her unexceptional analysis.
If you want to read an article that treats this same subject in an intelligent, non-partisan way, read:
http://lifehacker.com/5904594/the-guidelines-for-a-rational-political-discussion-with-friends-and-family
Until Janine has something worthwhile to add, perhaps she should take Laura Ingraham’s advice: Shut up and act!
This is actually the exact opposite of what liberals are inquiring about. Christians ave more right than people in my group. if i were to openly express my personal religious views. I am called satanic, sick, “going to go to hell”
so perhaps there is a war on religions, but i firmly do not believe it is on christian religion, as the majority of politicians are christian or some form of branch from the catholic/christian faith. The contraceptives being taken away, is just facts. if you listen to the whole story not just bits and pieces I’m sure you will find that my rights to healthcare and contraceptives are should not be in the hands of my managers, but mine and my doctors. Frankly I hope this bill does pass. I’ve seen other countries with these laws in place, and while their taxes are higher, they have expressed a feeling of “being tucked in” and “taken care of” I’m going to school to be a doctor, so i know where this conversation leads every time, I’m not going to get paid the same i would if i were practicing now, etc etc. But I want to be a doctor to help people, all people, not just a privileged few. I hope one day everyone can come together and agree to disagree and find a fine blanace inbetween without placing labels or declaring that a war has broken out. but until then, i will stand by my views, just as you stand by your own.
I hope you all have a wonderful day. Blessed Be~
Janine:
You’re right. We’ve run out of time to pussyfoot around with liberals and Democrats. I have a younger sister in Missouri who married a guy who is a dedicated union man, a blue-collar factory worker and a “yellow dog” Democrat.
During the 2008 campaign they were dedicated Hillary supporters; Obama was that “n _ _ _ _ _ s.o.b.” But once he was elected, he suddeenly became that “wonderful black guy who would bring hope and change.”
For years I have tip-toed around her politics, hoping to keep peace in tne family. However, realizing that another four-year term for Obama will mean the end of our country as we know it, I have rceently sent her an email announcing that “this is an intervention.” I informed her that, “Just as freinds don’t allow friends to drink and drive, friends and relatives cannot allow friends and relatives to vote Democratic.” It’s time to take off the gloves.
Eight years of George W Bush, ended this country as we know it. Obama is merely trying to salvage what pieces are left…
agreed anon.these folks are nuts.
Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the world were perfect! My country started out that way, perfect. Then we got a two-party Government.
Unfortunately, we get Left or Right spun truths. Can’t believe a word said.
The USA wasn’t built on Christian beliefs, it was built on Democracy. Our form of Democracy is a Republic, not a Christian Republic, a secular Republic that doesn’t force its citizens to follow any particular faith. A belief in a God is fundamental to our laws so our courts swear in people to answer to the court by saying “… so help me God.” Who that God is not important, only that the person pledging believe in his God.
If everyone were to pledge an oath before making outlandish left or right clap-trap, people would be more informed that it is an “opinion” they are hearing and not necessarily a truth.
Want to give this rant again? Document your facts.
Oh yes it WAS built on Christian beliefs, knucklehead brwns_fan. Here’s your facts:
Thomas Jefferson wrote this In a private letter to Benjamin Rush in 1803: “To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence…”
The founding fathers, rather than being the Deists so many fools ascribe them to be, were deeply religious. You wouldn’t find a more Christian person than George Washington, and if you don’t know how John Adams felt, you simply haven’t done your homework.
No one said anything about FORCING anyone to follow Christian beliefs, and Christians in America have rarely, if ever, tried to do that on an institutional scale.
So I’ve given specific examples of the Christian builders of America, but you only spoke in generalities, were wrong, and you ranted – projecting the very thing you accused someone else of doing.
Trying learning some facts before your next outburst.
This country was founded on the separation of church and state. And Thomas Jefferson was a well documented atheist. As well, John Adams made his opinion well known that religion had no place in government. Get YOUR facts straight!
I think Ms Turner, who has a child out of wedlock with a well known Dallas playboy, should worry more about her own morality than that of her Democratic friiends….
Turner’s writing/propagandizing is even worse than her acting. ouch, what a bizarre and pointless rant, brought to you by the criminals at Fox news.
So when confronted with the facts, O’Nonny goes for the ugly stuff. Real reasoned debate, O’Nonny.
Janine, I’ve always admired your work, and your arguments are valid. I agree, but we need to be armed with quotations to back up the points.
Wrong,wrong,all wrong !
Democrats will not let people use horses.That’s cruel.Ask O’Nonny
Validate your 2nd Amendment Rights.Carry.
Wow. How offensive and absolutely ridiculous is this?? The only good part is, I clicked on a link right next to this stupid drivel where I was able to donate to Obama’s reelection campaign. Awesome.
Would you let your kid drive the combustible Chevy Volt? No, just call them a leftist commie pinko after they buy the foreign Nissan Leaf.
The spite, the venom, the bile, the vitriol, the ignorance and intolerance, the blind hate that fuels the so-called political debate in the USA is frightening; it is irrational, inflammatory, fanatical with its basis in mythology, namely fundamentalist religion. How like the jihadists are these “political” preachers?.
This article is as insane as (and reminiscent of) this:
http://www.fyidailynews.com/2012/05/jane-svoboda-jane-skrovota-nebraska.html
Janine, there are Republicans just as vitriolic as the democrats you describe. Your column only worsens the current state political debate by demonizing the side you disagree with.
All of your statements about Obamacare are false and have been disproven.
Great to see more Hollywood people in the debate. If this article is any indication you will add nothing.
I am converted; I’m now a Libertarian as I am sick and tired of both parties! It’s time for a third party to step up, folks.
This is one of the most hilariously wrong things I’ve ever read. Line by line, wrong or lying. Incredible.