Gingrich Plan on Immigration a Good Starting Point
In a bold move that enraged folks on both the right and the left, Newt Gingrich recently proposed “a path to legality for those people whose ties are so deeply into America that it would truly be tragic to try to rip their family apart.”
Rest easy. As Gingrich has since attempted to make clear to groups of conservative voters, he would create such a path only after accomplishing a half dozen other objectives on the immigration front. On that menu, you’ll find plenty red meat for the Republican base: withholding federal funds from “sanctuary cities” that prohibit local police from enforcing immigration law; building a fence along the U.S.-Mexico border with Mexico; making English the official language of the country; requiring from immigrants an understanding of American history and how it relates to U.S. citizenship; and speeding up deportations of illegal immigrants who haven’t been in the country long enough to qualify for leniency.
Nevertheless, Gingrich said, it’s time for Americans to have “an honest conversation about what we are going to do about the people who are already here.” Most of those folks should be deported, he insisted. But there would be an exception for longtime residents with families and deep roots in the community. Workers would get “red cards” to identify them as having the right to work legally in the United States, but they wouldn’t get U.S. citizenship as part of the deal.
I like what Gingrich has in mind, and I consider it a step in the right direction. It’s certainly a big improvement over what’s happening now, with Congress afraid to even broach the subject and President Obama having deported more people in a three-year period than any president since Dwight Eisenhower.
But when I said this to a friend, who is also a Democratic strategist, he didn’t buy it. In fact, he forced me to back up my assessment. Not feeling at all generous toward Gingrich, he asked: “Specifically, how is this a step in the right direction?”
That got me thinking. Let me count the ways. I would argue that Gingrich’s proposal is a positive step because:
1) It starts a discussion that is long overdue, about what the United States should do with more than 10 million illegal immigrants who are already living here;
2) It forces Republicans who disagree with this approach to come up with alternative ideas that go beyond sound bites about how we need more “boots on the ground”;
3) It forces Democrats to confront the fact that President Obama doesn’t have a plan and that his administration is dividing the very families that Gingrich wants to keep together;
Immigrant families can stay together by simply not putting themselves in a situation with predictable results and then blaming it on the entirety of the American people; you are making a case for people as inept morons and not fully equal prospective and productive Americans. Extrapolate that out into the future and you have Latin America, a place they are escaping from.
The fact of the matter is that productive is as productive does and coulda, woulda, shoulda is not reality nor the reality of the relatively failed nations of Latin America. The East Indian company made a mark in India that in a relatively short space of time changed that culture forever – this has not happened in such a positive context in America for Latinos and it could be argued the opposite is true given gang violence in cities across America that never had it and is good reason to keep failure at bay.
Having spent 2 years of my life in 7 different Latin American countries, I can say that the disdain and non-presence of the law is marked and it sometimes seems little removed from the Age of Copper if you take away American innovations. Surprise, so it is as well among our new immigrants and you yourself.
As for 20 years or 20 days, being apt at escaping the eye of the law is hardly a recommendation for citizenship.
I think PJM puts you on here just to throw eggs at and they should in the future just put up a story about Kim Kardashian because we would at least be hyper aware of the emptiness of the target we were hissing.
Let us know what you think after knowing the whole truth, Ruben. The following should take you a grand total of about 15 minutes to get a clue what you’re talking about. Then, you can pass them on to Newt;
The Gumball Video (5 min) http://bit.ly/bQxRRZ
Amnesty Costs 70 Times More Than Enforcement http://bit.ly/adMGiz
Illegal aliens who have been here for twenty plus years were given amnesty by Ronald Reagan after his solemn promise to us (after hearing the outrage it caused) that we would never be asked to risk our national sovereignty on invaders again AND that our border would be secured.
Study: Gingrich Amnesty Bigger Than ’86 Blanket Amnesty
https://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/beckr/december-1-2011/study-says-gingrich-amnesty-bigger-86-blanket-amnesty-seems-reject-at
Reagan agreed to amnesty on the promise that border security would be done at a later date. Just as with agreeing to tax increases on the promise of future spending cuts, he and the American people were betrayed by the Democratic congress.
If NAVARRETTE is for it, then I’m against it. Simple.
Mittens has a real friend in you Ruben.
Another example of Hispanic dishonesty. The principle should be that no one benefits from their illegal acts.
I would point to Italy in all its glory. There the tactic is systematic law breaking for advantage with the expectation of post facto legalization. Do we want to be Italy?
What N-Boy is driving for is more clients for his political cause, more disunity, more power of the group he claims to represent.
He should be banned for spreading ethnic hatred.
We are Reconquering the Southwest…and you gringos can’t stop us. Our population is rapidly growing, and the gringo population is aging and declining. We are over 50 million and united. You are down to 63.7% and extremely divided…and will be a minority by 2041. We are already a majority of the population under 18 in Alta California, Tejas, Nuevo Mexico and Arizona… and are rapidly taking over Nevada, Colorado, and Florida.
We are young and vigorous. You gringos are old and tired. We are the future. Your time has passed. We have defeated you without firing a shot. It is too late for you gringos to stop us from taking over the country. Gringos are down to only 53.5% of the population under 18…and a minority of births since 2010. You gringos will soon be a minority, and lose control of your own destiny. We will control who gets elected President. We will DOMINATE Alta California, Tejas, Nuevo Mexico and Arizona…and will be the swing voters in the swing states — Nevada, Colorado, and Florida. Whoever doesn’t do La Raza’s bidding will be thrown out of office.
We have Reconquered the Southwest from you gringos without firing a shot. Don’t you see that we have defeated you? You have no leaders, no hope, no future. You gringos will soon pay the price for your sins against us. The 21st century will undo and reverse the 19th century. La Reconquista is almost complete. It is only a matter of time. We are nearly there. In a few years it will all be over for you gringos.
Do you understand that we are CONQUERING this country right now right in front of your eyes, in broad daylight, without a shot being fired? Do you understand that we are CONQUERING America right now…and that your leaders are like the American Indian chiefs who sold their tribes out for bottles of Kickapoo Joy Juice and some repeating rifles…
We have already RECONQUERED the entire Southwest — Alta California, Tejas, Nuevo Mexico, and Arizona. We will soon have control of Nevada, Colorado, Florida, and Utah. After that, we will proceed to invade, conquer, and colonize the entire country. We are repopulating the country. We will eventually drive all you gringos out of the country, to Canada, back to Europe, to Mars, whatever, just get the hell out of this country because we’re taking over, and we don’t want you racist gringos here. We will drive you gringos out of here as sure as I’m standing here.
We have CONQUERED you without firing a shot. La Raza is 50 million strong…and by 2050 there will be 135 million of us concentrated in the Southwest that borders Mexico which will have nearly 150 million people. La Reconquista is almost complete. We are taking back the Southwest, the land that you gringos stole from us in the 19th century. Demographics Is Destiny. We are repopulating the country. It is all over for you gringos. By 2041 you gringos will be a minority. A minority that is aging, shrinking and dying. By 2050 we will be 135 million strong, about 30% of the population, an overwhelming majority in the Southwest — and an even greater percentage of children. We will soon be an outright majority.
The Gringo’s world is ending… Not with a bang but a whimper.The Gringo is going gentle into that good night… Don’t rage against the dying of the Gringo’s light. Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada.
Nice sock puppet, Ruben.
Yes, La Raza, we all see that you learned how to copy-and-paste and have seen you post many times.
LaRaza, you are the same person(s)who thought you had conquered Texas a few years back, aren’t you? Your real name Santa Anna?
Can’t wait till Laraza tries to invade Louisiana, we are armed and ready
Mexican supremacists are not welcome. You do a horrible disservice to your ‘people’ when you post the intentions of radicals like yourself. This invasion that you praise so endearingly will not end well.
Tas tomando muncho koolaid! Los Democrates te estan usando. Obama uses you, but could care less about you. Rumor has it he laughs after he gets your vote. Fools you once shame on him, fools you twice, just plain dumb!
La Raza, you are a fake. You are an American trying to convince us that you are a Mexican. It shows in the way you write. Nice try. Now go get a life.
In 2004 Republicans won the White House with a substantial part of the Latino vote. Democrats realized they better do something or they would continue to lose the Latino vote, without which they would always lose elections. So in 2005 they sent their provocateurs, La Raza (which is the Democratic Party in the Latino “diaspora”), and others, into the community to instigate big marches and rallies. Remember the marches demanding immigrant’s rights and waving the Mexican flags? That was 2005 and that was when all this started. The purpose of that was to create a backlash among conservatives that would put an end to the successful strategy of the Republicans under Bush to woo Latino voters. It was a huge success on the part of the Democrats, even better than their “pin Katrina on the elepant” game was. They have been playing it like a Stradivarius ever since. They don’t call the Republicans the “stupid party” for nothing.
ignore this troll. Do a Google search for “We are young and vigorous. You gringos are old and tired” and you will see he’s not capable of intelligent thought but he has the copy-and-paste routine down pat.
If you read is post(s) carefully (He plasters the same screed everywhere) you’ll notice the language structures he uses: “Not with a bang but a whimper” … “going gentle into the night”. La Raza is a fake.
In reality ‘La Raza’ is probably some 60-year-old professor at some obscure insignificant college. After a hard day of dealing with a new generation of students who are starting to challenge the leftist ideology that is a part of his very soul, he goes home to his mommy’s house and the Che Guevara shrine in his bedroom. He thumbs through his dog-eared copy of Rules For Radicals, and cries over missing his chance to be a part of Fidel’s Revolution.
¡Usted está charlando atrasado mental, está repitiendo y está contradiciéndose con su charla!
You do realize that the US could have owned uo to Mexico City if we wanted to since we beat you back through there the last time you wanted a fight?
You La Raza pendejos have not changed your mouthy frothing rhetoric a bit from your 1973 agenda when I walked out of your sh#TTy meeting at a local college. Look behind you in your Mejico – why have you not improved the quality of life and the opportunities and industry for your countrymen? Porque no pueden! IF – IF you “reconquor” America your cockroach mentality and non productive nature will follow you here and you will again live in squalid, impoverished and dependent conditions. Talk is real cheap hombres and since you talk real tough about “not firing a shot” senores please understand that you most certainly have been in our reticle – simply because a shot has not been fired only means you have been spared. Moron!
Honestly Roger Simon, Ruben’s record scratched a LOOONG time ago. I’ve read more incisive, clever writings from Journalism 101/102 students.
Hey Rube.. let me ‘count the ways’.
-Uhbama’s got ‘..highest deportation numbers since Ike’ – Navarrette, WHEN are those #’s from? Obviously not from the last 4-6 months.
Since mid-August Uhbama halted deporting ‘low priority’ ALIENS, on top of reviewing case-by-case of 300k illegal aliens.. that’s ‘secret code’ (apparently too secret for the likes of you)the fast track to amnesty or ‘kicking the can down the road’, bub.
-’A discussion long overdue’ – Yeah, like the PASSED bills by AL, AZ and a myriad of other states to uphold their law without UHbama and the DoJ crying foul. Upholding the laws on the book as well. Punishing businesses that hire aliens. For starters.
-Republicans don’t call for ‘..more boots on the ground’ – Uhbama’s done it because of the murders of our border agents. It’s ‘weird’ you hadn’t involved that part of the discussion.
-Immigrants ‘arrived’ when setting foot on Ellis Island 110+ years ago. Illegal Mexicans and the other illegal 10% SNUCK into the USA and continue to do so.
-’Immigrant families kept together’ – Yep cause we have to reward their despicable disregard for our laws, right? I noticed a lot of, ‘immigrant families’ booing America’s soccer team in the Gold Cup. Yep these ‘immigrant families’ sure are doing their part to assimilate. Am I right, Rube?
-’Heated rhetoric’ – Yep, wanting our government to uphold the law and protect our borders and the Americans who live within her. ‘The inhumanity’. You ever think the ‘stubborn problem’ is 100′s of thousands annually (1.6 mill a few years back) trying to break-in to my country and steal err ‘use the entitlements’ my country offers? Nah.. right Rube?
-Rube, do you remember the same-sex bill in ’09 that didn’t happen (until the CA courts strongarmed their way in) in California? The demographics that saw to it NOT happening were Mexicans and Black people. Mexicans are more Conservative than you think, dude.
BTW, what’s California, being Mexican majority for teenage children now, ranked nationally in high school test scores? Oh, that’s right. They’ve been 49th for a LOOONG time as well.
AZ, NV (2 states with abysmally high illegals as well) rank 47th, 48th accordingly. Glad to see the ‘migration’ has worked so well for those states. hey, they’re all above Alabama.. woohoo!
You’re a goon, Ruben.
“In a bold move that enraged folks on both the right and the left, Newt Gingrich recently proposed “a path to legality for those people whose ties are so deeply into America that it would truly be tragic to try to rip their family apart.”
Utterly irrelevant. Emotional guilt-tripping accusations, even if veiled under a cloak of supposed compassion, are not worthy of discussion as government policy. I love how the tribal medicine men (Mr Naverrette in this case) make their appeals as both veiled accusation (Heartless “tragically ripping families apart”, blah blah blah) and progressive newspeak “Most of those folks should be deported, he insisted. But there would be an exception for longtime residents with families and deep roots in the community” which means in the practical world of give-away-other-peoples-money politics the so-called standards which determine who gets deported and who does not will be subjected to the judgements of both the Leftist and RINOmedia (Fox) who will busy themselves with endless sob stories of “families being ripped apart” and absolutely zero stories about the rapes, robberies, murders being committed by those saintly illegals.
The ruling-class has decided that the illegals stay, and you the citizens will just have to be properly inculcated and forced to accept what the ruling-class wants, or face a raft of new laws “protecting” the saintly illegals from you hateful natives who should have no say in the matter anyway. Got it? Now that they have gotten rid of Cain the ruling-class knows that absolutely nothing will be done about the illegals, so we can expect some form of eventual amnesty either in 2012 or at least during the next big-government administration (Gingrich, Romney, Obamesiah, ad nauseum).
1) Have those that are already here — register (just like our ancestors did at Ellis Island);
2) Background checks are a MUST;
3) After they register, they MUST attend classes to learn to read and speak English (most community colleges offer classes);
4) They must learn the Constitution; Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence (and be tested);
5) They must then go before a judge to be sworn in as an American Citizen.
6) The men “must” join the Military if he is under 30 years of age.
7) They must have a health Check
The adults will NEVER receive Social Security benefits because they have not paid into it.
They are NOT to receive food stamps for the same reason. They have never paid into the system to warrant receiving food stamps.
8) Put the Military on the border. Place signs at every major path where they come into the U.S. Also run ads in all the major newspapers; and give a press release to every major TV station in Mexico.
IF shot crossing the border “illegally, any lawsuits will not be accepted in any U.S. court.
Elaine, yours are better ideas than I’ve heard from any politician. Most of us don’t have a problem with immigration, just illegals. All must go through the vetting process. The first comment on the page from Mary Gerund explains the real problem with open borders. But there’s one more issue with it, we must have quotas. I don’t care if they’ve been here 20 years or not. We can absorb some but we cannot support the world.
Voluntary Military Service should not be used as a means to citizenship alone. Mejicanos formed the largest voluntary forced during armed conflict in all previous wars so this is nothing new. What is new is to stop paying the bill for those we are not responsible for. Which means that there is a legal process for eventually earning the prestige of being an American citizen. Should one care to serve in the United States military after naturalization then that will be fine.
CORREX
voluntary military FORCE…
Why does Ruben hate low-skilled American citizens so much?
Newt has some good ideas, he has some bad ideas. Overall he would not be a bad President. The problems is that he stands zero chance of winning over Obama. Newt has too many enemies and past problems. Voting for Newt in Iowa is the same as voting for Obama.
We are taking over this country…and if you don’t like it go back to Europe. The joke is on you racist gringo losers. We will soon be a majority in the Southwest. And by 2050 – Hispanics under 18 will outnumber Europeans under 18 in America, 39% – 38%. (The other 23% will be Africans, Asians etc.) We are the future. Your time is over. You gringos are aging, dying, disappearing. We have Conquered you. You have been defeated. We are now the majority. You gringos are a minority. We now control our own destiny. You gringos don’t have a prayer. What a shame. The gringos suicide is La Raza’s gain.
We are Conquering Tejas. In Tejas, two-thirds of the newborns and half the schoolchildren are Hispanic… We will soon Dominate Tejas just like we are currently Dominating Alta California… When that happens it is all over for you white Republicans and racist gringos…
You racist white Republicans are panicking because you know that your time is coming to an end. We will soon DOMINATE Tejas, Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, Florida, Georgia etc. You will be out of power, FOREVER. The joke is on you gringos. The gringos loss is La Raza’s gain. What a shame for you gringos. You gringos will wind up in the dustbin of history. You will be buried by the sands of time. Adios gringos.
The Gringo’s world is ending… Not with a bang but a whimper.The Gringo is going gentle into that good night… Don’t rage against the dying of the Gringo’s light. Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada.
Well, Mr. Lazy Rotta, how’s about you returning to Spain or the jungles of the Mexican Indians? YOU have not contributed to either the country you prefess of the country you live in. If you can’t support the country you live in, then return to Mexico, join their armed forces, and declare war on the U.S. to take what you want. Yeah, right. Nothing like getting your asses kicked once again. Don’t you ever forget, gringos are WELL armed and have no fear of shooting anyone who assaults them!!!!
Enjoy! The brain drain is already reversing with more highly educated people now leaving the US than migrating in. Many are going to Latin American countries, mostly South America. In Brazil a tech worker now makes more than he can in the US. Engineers and scientists are always valuable, and they are leaving as well. I just read that even financial analysts and accountants are finding better employment in South America. I guess these people don’t trust that Obama is on the right the path to “winning the future.” Of course there are always the psychology and visual arts majors currently occupying various cities. They’ll still be around to help you pay the bills if eventually they find jobs worthy of their ideals.
Phoohey! I want mass deportations. I want it televised. I want the children shipped off with their scoff-law parents.
I am sick to death of a people who have invaded a foreign country and murdered and pillaged said country.
If they were so darned cleaver and hard working they use that energy to fix their own countries instead of acting the bandito in ours.
If anyone is going to be deported, it is going to be you gringos.
We are 50 million strong — and will be 135 million by 2050.
You are down to 63.7% — and will be a minority in 2041.
If you stupid gringos have any brains, you won’t start a fight with us, because we are the future majority, and will reciprocate when we have the numbers to do so.
Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada.
Hold on, bub. ‘Were stupid’?
Your ‘race’ has turned the USA Southwest public education system into a laughingstock!
Low test scores, teen pregnancies, gangs, tuberculosis and other ‘wonderful’ diseases you brought over from your 3rd World (is there e a 4th.. you’d qualify!) hellhole, anchor babies parent’s unable to help with their homework, after school advice because their parent’s are illegal imbeciles etc.,
You’re nothing but another of a long line of dunces, cabron.
Especially the diseases! They have brought diseases that were all but vanquished back into our country. They have brought LEPROSY into the country for goodness sakes!!!
Time to dust off those plans Ike used for “Operation Wetback”!
O.K., let’s have a little discussion of our current immigration problems. First, lay aside the illegals. They are a symptom that has to be addressed after we take care of the other inequities in the system.
1) Total immigration visas not to exceed one million in any calendar year.
2) Preference will be given only to skilled workers or those investing in the U.S. economy, and their wives and children.
3) No preference based on country of origin, current citizenship, race, etc.
4) Any student who completes a masters or PhD degree at an American university may qualify as a skilled worker under #2 above and will count against the global immigration quota.
5) The spouse and children of an American citizen may receive an immigrant visa and will count against the global quota. A child adopted abroad by an American citizen will also qualify.
6) The President may approve up to 500 immigrant visas annually for national security purposes.
7) If, at the end of calendar year A the total number of immigrant visas available that year have not been used or allocated, the unused numbers may be carried over to the following year and used only for the parents, brothers and sisters of American citizens.
8) Any non-immigrant who enters the U.S. as a student, exchange student, treaty trader/investor, or company executive may, following not less than three years of residence, apply for an immigrant visa and, if qualified, receive that visa without leaving the U.S.
9) Any person found to be in the U.S. illegally shall be deported.
9)
So, what you’re asking for is the complete repeal of the Ted Kennedy inspired Immigration Act of 1965?
What a wonderful idea!
Kennedy/Kopekni – what a wonderful idea.
We conservatives used to pride ourselves on being hard-headed realists, as opposed to those soft-headed bleeding heart liberals.
So here are some realities for you:
1. Birthright citizenship for the children of illegal aliens is not going to go away. It’s an unintended consequence of the laws passed after the Civil War to make former slaves into citizens, and unfortunately we’re stuck with it. To fix it would require a landmark Supreme Court ruling (which we can never count on) or a Constitutional Amendment (which would take a number of years at minimum to ratify).
2. Thus we are NOT going to deport 12 million illegal aliens. The U.S. Government isn’t going to forcibly put hundreds of thousands of anchor babies in orphanages, tearing them from millions of their illegal alien parents who will then be put on trucks or trains and dump them over the border. That’s a right-wing fantasy, a pipe dream that is never, repeat NEVER, going to happen. Those illegal alien families are here and they’re going to continue to be here as long as there is work for them.
I’m not interested in pursuing nice-sounding daydreams because they make us feel good. I would rather deal with the above uncomfortable realities as they are.
Therefore what can be done about this problem within those parameters.
Bush tried and failed, because base conservatives wouldn’t give up their fantasies. But Bush was busy with the War on Terror and didn’t really try to explain his rationale to the American people.
Gingrich hasn’t said enough about the real problem, which is employers who hire illegals. He can’t threaten them with jail this year because many of those employers–especially in agribusiness–contribute to the GOP (cf. OpenSecrets.org).
The best way is a bipartisan compromise where a President Gingrich or President Some-Other-Republican has to shrug and say “Jailing employers who hire illegals was the part of the compromise that the Dems insisted on”. (While the Dems shrug and say “Insisting on English rather than bilingualism was the part of the compromise that the GOP insisted on”.)
And let’s stop with the fantasies.
A needed starting point is the enforcement of the employment restrictions found in Simpson-Mazolli – plus, securing the border (both of them).
Birthright citizenship does not belong to people born here of illegal aliens, because those illegal aliens have not subjected themselves to our laws.
Latin Americans have no track record of being law observing. There are 700 illegal shanty towns in Rio de Janeiro alone and the same attitude towards law there is enshrined in the cross border illegal depredations of our peregrinating “citizens.”
Under this rule, every time I need a frickin’ dollar I go rob someone. Hey, I needed the dollar. Law is entirely flexible in Latin America to say the least and with the Leftist whining accompanying our new neighbors the political Left has bought into the “well we have plenty of dollars you poor unfortunate dunderheads so lemmings away.”
You know people are allowed to take their children with them when they go. No need to “put them in orphanages.” I know many US citizens who were raised either partly or entirely in other countries. They aren’t broken just because they were deprived of a US public school education. In fact they are quite interesting well adjusted people.
Ron Rosenbaum got the hint. How long before it sinks into Rueben’s tequilla-soaked brain that HuffPost is where he belongs? And he’s fooling no one with his La Raza imposture. It’s just a way to keep the string going, so ignore them.
I think building a fence and issuing red cards will work.
Or we just take more of Mexico. Baja California under Anglo-Saxon common law would have real-estate values go through the roof.
The fact that Navarette supports Newt’s plan makes me not want to vote for him!
The pundits say Gingrich will scare off independent and moderate voters. Here is evidence to the contrary.
Perhaps “La Raza” has told it all. Flood the SW states with illegal aliens and “birthright” babies. Increase the Mexican/Latino population to where they control the state government. Increase welfare programs to aid illegals and encourage even more illegal entry. Hire the best lawyers you can find to prosecute your cases. Recruit as many Democrats as possible to support your projects (Democrat votes).
The Aztecs were based in what is now Mexico City. They conquered the weakened Mayans. Without beasts of burden or the wheel, they conquered lands as far North as Southern California and Texas, and ruled with an iron hand. Commerce was done by humans carrying or tugging loads of tribute.
This is La Raza. Four hundred years of history and lore about the lost empire—and now the chance to get it all back–with interest in the form of state of the art technology. “There is nothing new under the sun.” (from the Bible)
There are no limits and numbers don’t matter. Just there are no limits on government debt, there is no limit on immigration. Lawyers have create unlimited liability far beyond total wealth just as bureaucrats have no limit on laws and regulations.No one mentions we should have these many immigrants so this much deficit. Climate change Is perfect — no numbers here.
Newt said that he would make illegals legal if they met certain conditions. This is blanket amnesty by another name. It is the most deceitful plan proposed by a Republican or a Democrat. The necessary paper work to “prove” an illegal meets whatever qualifications Nutty Newty can come up with can be bought at MacArthur Park. Step two will occur after every illegal that wants to become legal under Nutty Newty’s program will be carried out by Erwin Chemerinsky and his ACLU cohorts. Thirty minutes after Nutty Newty signs his insane plan into law, Erwin and Co. will be in court with paper work that will have already been prepared (it probably was prepared the day after Nutty Newty first proposed this insanity) claiming discrimination against these “legal residents” because other legal residents have a path to citizenship. These “legal residents” must have equal protection under the law. Blanket Amnesty.
Ruben never starts a smart conversation so it never has a chance to go anywhere.
He starts from a position of antagonism, victimization and dogma…and then tries to weave in a little guilt-tripping to gild the silly.
Let’s start by defining terms properly:
1)Border crashers. They are not “illegal immigrants”…they aren’t immigrants at all. They aren’t “undocumented workers”, they are fake documented opportunity grabbers. The term “illegal alien” is technically more correct than the last two, but it is not descriptive enough nor does it instantly remind us of the issue. Border crashers. Period.
2)Small children of border crashers. They do not have the mens rea to have committed a crime themselves and they are given the Hobson’s choice by their border crasher parents to hide out, sneak in, grow up living a lie. They can’t come clean without risking it all for their parents. What a nightmare existence. How do you teach such a child right from wrong, when their entire existence is based upon a pile of lies? Cognitive dissonance from cradle to grave. Many of them…an early grave.
3)Complex monetary issues of cost, opportunity cost, lack of assimilation, money flow out of the country, drug cartel influence, lack of respect and pride in the host country.
4)Security, law enforcement, terrorism, state’s rights.
No serious discussion, no adult conversation can be held…absent the above four paragraphs.
BEFORE…we ever get to the “poor, poor, oppressed, victimized, angelic, no fault of their own” border crashers and their families…we must FIRST work through those four paragraphs.
If we can’t get agreement on the fundamentals of the discussion, then the rather inane frolic through the fantasyland of “cures” is a monumental waste of time.
A cure for symptoms is a band-aid. A proposed cure without diagnosing the disease is malpractice.
I have proposed solutions in another thread. My proposals are not the only ones available…but at least they start AFTER a recognition of the four baseline paragraphs.
Absent that…it’s mindless drivel, in my opinion. Mindless drivel being the starting point for every conversation with Ruben, I’ve found.
Clarity of action & clarity of purpose. Well said ClBleachers.
Watched the C-Span House Homeland Sec committee under Connie Mack of Florida – striking at the heart of this issue. These hearings are NO WHERE on the radar of most americans, because as Ruben proves yet again, and as ClBleachers elequently points out, most are distracted by the drivel and political posturing – which Newts quip was but the latest.
One of Napolitano’s cheif aids from DHS was onboard as well as another long time Dept of Justice dep. (under both Bush and Obama) and a very well informed former ambassador whose 20+ experiences included running our embassy in Columbia during the worst of the drug war there.
Remarkably robust discussion debating whether Mexico deserves having the same kind of Terrorist designations concerning the Cartels as we eventually placed on there.
Despite the supposed ‘record level of co-operation’ via the Merida Intitative, which mirrors the Napolitano DHS insistance that the border is the safest ever, this pannel – while strenuously disagreing with the Republicans who want the cartels so designated to enable seizure, extradition, and asset forefiture US LAW to fight these criminals like we did in Columbia – proved telling in their forthright discussion.
Few pay attention to the attempts by our DOJ, Homeland Security, and in a minor role our military to salvage the massive INSURGENCY by the cartels into the police, army and justice system in Mexico. This has now included political recruitment besides the occational political assassination. These changes mirror the evolution of what the Palestinians and Hamas has done on the United Nations ‘international front’ as well as the all ‘politics are local’ approach to winning hearts and minds on the ground – such as providing health care and ‘jobs.’
While we get some credible reporting at sites like PJ, it’s a story that goes largely ignored in the MSM.
What needs added to your list ClBleachers is that Mexico – no matter if it’s run by a supposed ally like Caulderon or a reversion back to a leftist leaning PRI sock puppet in the next eleciton – is such a corrupt and flailing democracy – that it is hardly any more reliable as an ally than is Pakistan.
Connie Mack is right on in this pursuit. Border security as national security goes way beyond finger pointing over Oxacan gardners crashing the gate or fighting for a real or imagined coveted growing voter demo here; it now includes proven ties between the criminal drug cartels and groups like Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood.
Between the exausted Mexican people – who are showing a troubling inclination after all the brutal violence to surrender to some kind of ‘new normal’ when it comes to accepting ongoing corruption over the cost in blood and treasure to ‘win’ by vanquishing these criminals – and the kind of appeasement the Obama administration pursues in the name of ‘equal partnership’ and support – we are closer to policy akin to what the Europeans did when ‘negotiating’ with the various terrorist groups active in Italy, France, and Germany in the 70′s.
Changing this foolish and expensive FAILING policy to one that not only secures the border but also helps DEFEAT the corrosive corruption now strangling democracy in Mexico can only be achieved when we kick out the current adminstration.
Obama cares about nothing except the kind of craven tribal and parochial political concerns exemplified by dopes like Navarrette and idoits like Luis Gutierrez of the Hispanic caucus.
Speaking of terrorism, let me relate a true incident from 40 years ago.
I was a teaching aid at Beverly Hills High School. A student who I sometimes played folk music with me thought I might want to hear a famous folksinger who was appearing at the Greek Theater. He bought tickets for himself and my wife and I. When we arrived at the concert we discovered that appearing with the famous folksinger was a group called El Teatro Campesino. This group does not sing but does what is considered folk theater in Mexico. After famous folksinger sang, he introduced El Teatro Campesino, a bilingual group who performs “skits” without any props. They are and were associated with the United Farm Workers. As they “performed” every other sentence contained the phrase f*ck the white man. Half of every skit was in Spanish. After about ten minutes, my wife who is bilingual, turned to me and said, “You think what they are saying in English is bad. What they are saying in Spanish is worse.” So, what is worse than f*ck the white man, how about kill the f*cking white man. These were/are legal immigrants and they are not as radical as La Raza.
You Nutty Newty supporters can work to get him nominated. As for me and my household, we will vote third party if you succeed.
Navarette is for anything that would render the United States incapable of defending its own borders. Which would mean the end of the United States as a sovereign state. Which is endgame for all progressives like Navarette.
In conclusion: Illegality has its rewards.
Those countless of millions of legal immigrants who, since 1960, have paid dearly to correctly follow every Immigration law on the books then and today, did so at costs unimmaginable to any american family born and raised in the USA.
For those 10 million or so who illegally crossed America’s borders in defiance of all Immigration laws and procedures, your efforts are now going to be rewarded. All your stealing, forging, health care at the expense of local and national taxpayers, food stamps, WICS programs, subprime home loans, Section (8) programs, sanctuary cities, improper and illegal income tax refunds, school tuition vouchers at the expense of other natural born Americans,ESL courses, fraudulent tax payer TIN numbers, falsified State ID cards, your “gaming” the system is now going to be rewarded.
This easing of law enforcement efforts as regards illegal aliens has it’s consequences…see, there are countless millions of incarcerated illegal aliens in jail for all or some of these above listed infractions. They now will have legal redress under this new easing of illegal alien court decisions. They can appeal their sentences and upon release file for reinstatement and financial awards.
Thirdly, all those deported illegal aliens will now have legal redress as concerns their particular cases since easing of illegal alien law enforcement is rapidly being considered. They too, will have the right to legal redress, appeal and reinstatement with financial rewards.
Lastly, 10 million illegal aliens would be a very conservative number. With those illegal aliens “wrongfully” deported under old Immigration Laws, now with a new easing of these Immigration Laws with “New and Improved” guidelines, a flood of appeals will inundate US DOJ = State Department (Immigration) for reconsideration of their cases.
One would imagine it easier to apply the full weight of all laws currently on the books EQUALLY to ALL illegal aliens by deporting them. They are not taxpayers, because they’re ILLEGAL. They “trickled” in, they can “trickle” out. They’re parasites.God Bless America.
Reuben, keep telling them.
A lot of people read the headline to your post, and dived right in. They never got to #6, but i did. What you want to do could largely be handled through a carefully-drafted Guest Worker program.
We need a guest worker program to round out our laws, because a guest worker program would take into account those people who are here just to work. We’ve had one before, and it worked to end an illegal immigration problem, before, but Ted Kennedy left it out of the current law due to objections by the Unions. Congress’ failure to draft a complete law has created the mess that was predicted to happen.
A guest worker program would allow people to leave more readily, and maintain their ties with their families at home. It would make it easier for people to move back home and enjoy a higher standard of living after leaving. For one thing, they would not have to divert so much of their hard-earned cash to coyotes. They could visit more often. And, because people who work here learn our system, it would export people who have a lowered tolerance of bribery and inefficiency in government. These are good things for us, and not-so-good things for thieves like Hugo Chavez.
A guest worker program would act as de facto foreign aid to our close neighbors that goes exactly where it’s most needed, bypassing those wasteful, bribe-taking filters that are currently in place. We could wind up returning South America’s most vigorous and desperate people after educating them in our system and allowing then to accumulate resources that would be significant at home.
When chuck Shumer had nice things to say about gingrich’s local red card plan–I instantly understood what he meant. He meant that the red card local system could be completely gamed.
What the local red card jury system for deporting people comes down to is that democratic districts–every illegal will be waved through–even if they came over the border yesterday. Why? Because the rules are open to interpretation. And even if they aren’t open to interpretation–since the locals are the ultimate judges–even if the rules say one thing–the locals can rule any way they want. So if you have a county where 80% of the people speak spanish and 40% of those are illegal–all the illegals will be waved through.
In republican districts–illegals will have to have been here for 25 years. A bar that few will be able to hurdle. So they’ll be forced out.
The result of this will be the further polarization of the country.
I agree. And, if you read my experience from 40 years ago, above, you will see that not all of this will be passive polarization.
Why is Navarrette being published in PJ? He is a long-time hispanic race-nat who poses as a balanced journalist when things are going his way. We do not require the journalistic equivalent of a troll, you can get that anywhere on the net.
Hmmm, you notice that, also?? That sukker is in the newspaper I read about 2-3 times weekly. I’ve read one article I agree with him onl I usually can’t get past the first para.
Immigration, like abortion, tends to bring out political hatred, and very little positive thinking. Gingrich is a master at popping bubbles in the other party’s policies; he has been marginally successful in creating coalitions at his power center. He, once again, takes a position which he hopes will propel himself into power. Maybe; it is a complex issue.
It would not be complex except that there are many vested interests who do not tell the truth. In no order, they are:
the illegal immigrant,
US employers who seek cheap, subservient labor,
Mexican drug lords who control most of the illegal traffic across our border,
Mexican, and Hispanic authorities who wish to flush their poor into the US,
US officials who profit from the mess, and have no intention of solving it, eg. Democratic apparatchiks,and
a neurotic racist splinter group who seeks to reverse the Louisiana purchase and kick the white man back to the east side of the Appalachian mountains.
In the 1950s, we had a successful policy which allowed seasonal inflow of unskilled farm workers at harvest time. It was destroyed by those who sought to unionize the work force, and cut off the labor supply, to achieve control. In 1986, Reagan allowed a one time amnesty with a promise to seal the border. Nothing happened due to the above vested interests. The can has been kicked this far down the street, and the situation has gotten much worse. We all know if the problem is truly solved, some one’s ox will get gored.
Illegal immigration is somewhat similar to slavery, in that, at its root, various interests seek to profit from another’s labor, or dump their costs on some one else. It amazes me that this condition is not clear to the American left. In other wars, it became infuriated about the sanctity of the Vietnam – Cambodian border, or the Afghanistan – Pakistan border, but actively seeks amnesty, and a voting block, among poor, uneducated, illegal Hispanic workers. On 9 – 11, we learned what fifteen illegals could do; what can ten million do? We have also learned that our federal government has been effectively worthless at controlling the border for generations.
Newt’s words point toward a statute of limitations on illegal immigration.eg if you came here before …… or have other conditions, you can register and stay; otherwise you must leave, an/or pay. Conditions, register, when, sanctions for cheating, these are worth debate.
The big question is who can you trust?
I think Newt’s ex-wives would say don’t trust Newt.
According to his daughter and ex-wife that’s just another LSM fable. Another in a long line they’ve put over on gullible conservatives.
And all these illegal immigrants deserve to be allowed to stay here why?
Who cares if someone cleaned your toilet after breaking into your house? They still broke into your house.
Who cares if they are nice people? They still broke into your house.
Who cares if they brought their family with them they Still BROKE INTO YOUR HOUSE.
I cannot see the merit of rewarding those who entered illegally just because they didn’t trash the place when they got in.
Ah, the Rule Of Law, I remember it well. RIP…
So what happens to these people with “legal status” when they get old? They won’t be Medicare or SS eligible so how will they afford healthcare? Health insurance is not affordable for them now when they are young and it is relatively cheap. When you get into your 50′s it is over $600 a month. Few companies even offer policies for people over 60.
Also, it does not help to promote an “honest discussion” when your opening line is a misdirection. While there are over 10 million illegal immigrants, it is more honest to say over 18 million (and probably over 20 million). Part of the resentment over the Reagan amnesty is the lie about granting legal status to nearly 1 million when in fact it was over 3 times that. People resent being lied to by their leaders.
It is also not an honest discussion when you compare people who have been here 20 years to people who have been here 20 days. In the first place, according to the current administration none have been here 20 days because illegal immigration slowed to a trickle over 3 years ago. Again, the public will realize they have been lied to when over a half million people who have only been in the country less than 2 years are in the 9th Circuit Court demanding equal treatment. Again EXACTLY what happened in 1986, so why is it going to be any different today?
What are you doing about the people who have been here 10 years. Statistically they are likely to have 4 children enrolled in the public schools. Are they staying too in spite of their lack of roots in the community? Of course they are. Then there is the family who has only been here 5 years. They too will likely have at least 3 children with at least one in pre-K or kindergarten. Are they staying too? Of course they are.
Now you have a full 20 million or so on visas allowed to compete for ANY job, but an employer will not have to pay payroll taxes because they are not eligible for SS. Who are they going to hire, the citizen who costs them an extra 6.2% or the immigrant? You think unemployment is bad for unskilled workers now at nearly 15%, just wait. The only wage group that actually LOST real income in the past 30 years is the bottom 20% income earner and that is a direct result of illegal immigration. Are we adding this competition so that they can become competitive with Chinese workers even faster?
I think the mentality that most Hispanics buy into is that the Republicans are the boogyman. As a Hispanic women I must say that I do not fall for the smoke and mirrors that democrats use to talk Latinos into voting for them. What has the democratic party ever done for our people beyond uses us as political pawns for political gains. Obama will say everything that he knows appeals to Latinos. However when the voting is done and he in fact had the Latinos thinking that he actually cares for them, he’ll turn around and ask ” do I know you?”. Obama and the Dems will never do anything for the Latinos they will only fool them to believe that they care for their well being but will forgot about them after Nov 3, 2012. Plus what idiology in the dem party do we actually believe in. Do Latinos believe in abortion. Do they believe in gay marriage. Do they believe that government must provide everthing for them? Because if I’m not mistaken our parents and our grandparents were and are hard working people. People so proud that they wouldn’t take a dime unless they earned it. How do those values align themselves with the democrates. Too bad that so many have actually been talked into thinking that they are Dems. In fact my mom thought she was a dem until she realized that the dem idiology is just the opposite of what she was brought up to believe in and stand for. By the way, what did Obama do for any of you in his first term. Never gave you one thought until this year. I wonder why?
HEY RUBEN…WHAT SAY YOU ABOUT THIS?:
• 850,000 illegal immigrants successfully enter the United States each year
• Over the last two decades 1,001,715 LEGAL immigrants were admitted to the U. S, on average, each year. That is more LEGAL immigrants admitted each year than all the rest of the world’s countries admit COMBINED
• 90 percent of illegal immigration comes from Latin America, with 70 percent of the total from Mexico
• About 80 to 85 percent of the immigration from Mexico and Central America in recent years has been illegal
• 10% of Mexico now lives in the United States
• 4,300 American citizens lose their lives each year by the actions of an illegal immigrant
• Illegal Immigrants cost U.S. taxpayers $113 billion per year; a total sum count of their education, medical, law enforcement and public assistance costs. This is based on a population calculation of 13 million illegal aliens within the U.S. The actual number could actually be as many as 20 million or more
• Illegal immigrants receive $4.2 billion in Refundable Tax Credits annually from the IRS
• Illegals send $30 billion annually in remittances (transfer of money) to Latin America, $21 billion of which goes to Mexico
• The annual total combined impact from illegal immigration is $147 billion dollars
HEY RUBEN…WHAT SAY YOU ABOUT THIS?:
What about Deportation? (Remember – every illegal alien is deportable by law)
Wouldn’t it cost too much to deport all the illegals?
• In Dec. 2010, DHS stated to Congress it would cost “$135 billion to apprehend, detain and remove the nation’s entire illegal immigrant population.”
• Therefore, it is less costly to deport all the illegal immigrants from our country than to keep them around ($147 billion negative annual impact to the economy)
There will be no “reconquering of America.” Not the one that exists now. As sure as night follows day non assimilation will lead to fatal racial divisions. The rate of division will increase exponentially as the commonality of language is lost.
When common sense instead of racial chauvinism governed us we paused during periods of high immigration. For a reason. The cheering of the Mexican soccer team in California is a sneak peek at our future. For that matter so are the drug wars along the border.
La Raza,
You talk about “the white government officials” selling out the gringos, well you should know as your government of Mexico, has been doing it since the time began. You think La Raza and the illegals will take over? Its just like the carpetbagger’s in the south after the war. There were proper black folks, and slaves that got some money and thought they were something, but were never respected. The issue is La Raza as said above the mixed or legal hispanic folks dont want nothing to do with the lay about illegals. A great many hispanic folks are very conservative and are tired of you giving them a bad name. My family is made up of LEGAL spics and mics. They thumbed their LEGAL noses at the illegals because they worked so darned hard to get here legally. You are an idiot, as are anyone who follows La Raza who would send all of you back for a dime by the Obama administration. All La Raza wants is your usefull idiot self to go out and get shot or deported so they can use you to get money from the current political monarchy. This is all the democrats want you for is to vote for them, to become a well fare country of a bunch of useless idiots, to keep them in power. You are an idiot if you think you count for anything more than a means to an end for La Raza getting richer and the democrats getting to stay in office. You think we have been sold out? Your nothing, an idiot, a useless puppet sold out by your own original country, to be sold out again by this country. You think you won and have importance but you dont. You stand there and bring down your own people with your thoughts and views, rather than working your a$$ off, and trying to uphold the freedoms that will soon go away based on people like you. Funny that you think when all the “white people” move on and get out of this country that it would even be a good country. Once all the hard working white people go, then the hardworking other nationalities, you might as well be back in mexico. If that occurs you can have Mexico you idiot. It will be the united states of Mexico, and all you and your idiot bretheren will be trying to figure out how to get into Canada or Europe, because once were gone you idiot, you will no longer what to live in the united states of Mexico, for the same reason why you left Mexico to begin with.
La raza you are a moron, you need to pick up a book and read some history. Wherever things are good, wherever people prosper, the illegals want in. Once the hardworking people leave this country, you dump a$$ will be following. The only reason this country works is off the back of the hard working people, not idiots like yourself. When we are gone, you will try and fllw. So pull you head out of your a$$, read a book, get a job, and try and be a respectable human being, enjoy the freedom you have now, and hope that all the white people dont go.
Dedd….that is one of the most intelligent discourses i have seen in a long, long time. i wish someone could explain why a friends grand daughter who lives in New Mexico and cannot attend Texas A&M because of out of state tuition and an illegal receives in state tuition…the kicker…her heritage goes back to the Spanish intrusion into New Mexico…before our Civil War!!!
Tel her to appeal for equal rights for enrollment directly to the President of Texas A&M — Directly no VP’s or Deans of this or that office. Use this same argument and prepare to show the President her tuition check — When he accepts her do not forget to inquire about book waivers! All the blacks do it!
So, now the number of illegal aliens is down to 10 million. The “official” figure has remained at 12 million for the past decade. Just as they thought there were 300,000 in 1986 and there turned out to be three million, the actual number now is probably closer to 20 – 25 million. But, people like Ruben will say anything to make his case for amnesty.
i think people are missing the point…having failed miserably…Mexico…Latin America…California….other aspects i do not see here but know….Mexican hatred of blacks…heck want to see racism..go to Mexico and watch them cheat and spit on the Indians…Geronimo hated Mexicans for a reason…and where are the Mexican science majors? most are either law of social scientists……face it gang…inept
I think you’ve uncovered a little known aspect of Mexico’s desire to “help” immigrants emigrate. Given that Indians in Mexico are discriminated against, Mexico’s gov’t printing up brochures to help them in America is like the KKK giving out the schedules and prices of boats to Africa.
None of this matters! No plan will pass! We already have a plan and laws that WILL work just fine if the US government would uphold/implement them. No amnesty EVER!
Anytime a poltician uses the word comprehensive (describing any legislation) it is code for bull-shiite! You all saw how far Bush got with comprehensive; that is all that will ever happen as long as the Tea Party is a force.
Get 2,000 agents and raid 100 businesses a day for 60 days or you run out of good leads. REQUIRE all employers to use E-verify on any new hires after Jan 1 2012. Empty the prisons of all illegals except murderers and transport them to the southern most mexican port. Cruise ships hold a lot of people. Pass the NO welfare for illegals, or no money of any kind from the feds to any state out of compliance.
See!! Just like Newt; I am a regular idea-freakin-factory baby! We would be down to the Grandpa’s in no time.
I can imagine no rebuke more profound for Newt’s position than the support of the author.
“nuff said.
Seester and me illegal aliens; seester say keep Mexico give me dat countryside. Please La Raza, screw self with simply awful droning noise.