Gilad Shalit: At Any Price?
Ynet columnist Shimon Shiffer doesn’t believe that any amount of public protest will be able to convince Netanyahu to free such dangerous terrorists:
We can assume that in Shalit’s case he will hold firm and act like a prime minister should.
But the pressure on the government from the Shalit family is formidable. Their position — secure Shalit’s release at any price — is supported by an op-ed piece that appeared in Ha’aretz on Sunday titled “Make a Deal Now.” The article dismisses as “unconvincing” any argument by the government that releasing the most dangerous prisoners would represent a true national security threat. It is only a matter of time until the government concedes to public pressure and meets the Hamas demands, they argue. Why not just do it sooner instead of later?
Unfortunately, the march appears to be bolstering morale in Hamas as successfully as it boosts the spirits of the Shalit family. The Hebrew daily Israel Today quoted a “senior Palestinian source” as saying that “Hamas is drunk with power as they watch this debate rage within Israeli society.” They see the internal arguments within Israel as a breaking point among Israelis. More than one Hamas official has argued that they shouldn’t release the captured soldier under any circumstances, even if Israel meets its demands. “Hamas is displaying the kidnapping as one of its organization’s greatest achievements.”
This animated propaganda film recently released by Hamas celebrating the kidnapping supports that observation.
But these are the government’s concerns, not those of the Shalit family. The Shalits say that they have waited long enough and have kept their suffering private long enough so as not to encourage their son’s captors. This 11-day march and the subsequent sit-in represent a turning point for them: after four years of diplomacy, they are taking their struggle public. Together with the approximately 500 supporters committed to accompanying them all the way to Jerusalem, they have put their lives and careers on hold in order to fully dedicate themselves to their goal.
Noam Shalit, speaking to the press as he set out, said they are determined that their son will not meet the sad fate of Israel’s previous famous prisoner of war, Ron Arad, who is believed to have died of illness while in captivity.
Our family, with the support of thousands of activists who are walking with us are saying: no more. We won’t wait anymore. We are bringing our protest by foot together with out supporters on this long journey until we arrive at the home of Binyamin Netanyahu in Jerusalem — a journey from which we intend to return only with Gilad.
Indeed the debate continues inside Israel -
The fact that the hamas can quell any and all debate within the Palastinian community, due to their totalitarian regime is their great advantage, though I fail to see how the world in general can be so taken in by hamas.
Personally, I beleive that the price We should pay is to promise not to totally destroy Gaza if Gilad is returned, World opinion be dammned.
I fail to see, how, on the one hand Israel can’t defend itself gainst hamas as it would do against a sovereign state, yet on the other hand, hamas and Gaza are treated as a Sovereign state in the MSM when it is advantageous to hamas to do so.
BTW if i am not mistaken “prisoner of war” is a status only relevant for a captive of warring nations which means that Gilaad is not a POW but a kidnapped victim held incomunicado for ransome by a terrorist group.
As an American Israeli veteran of almost thirty years, I have yet to talk with any Israeli who supports the exchnge of Palestinian terrorist murderers for the IDF soldier Gilad Schalit.
Even those I have heard on the news or read in the papers in support of such a deal almost always add the proviso that it would be dangerous to Israel, however necessary they believe the exchange to be.
The only bodies really able to influence Hamas to release Gilad Schalit are the European Union Quartet and the United States President Barack Obama. The problem here is that both of these bodies only pressure and make demands on Israel, while studiously avoiding even mentioning Hamas in their communiques.
Worse, as Ms. Kaplan Sommer points out, are the naive Israelis, including the parents of Gilad who believe that the Israeli government has not done enough, conceded enough, or appeased enough in regards to Hamas and thus Gilad Schalit remains a prisoner.
Hamas is of course laughing itself sick to see how the EU and the US bow and scrape to them, and are roaring with laughter to see their Israeli “recruits” putting on demonstrations and marches pressing, get this, not Hamas to release Gilad, but rather on their own government and people to surrender to Hamas.
Most of these Israelis demanding that the Israeli government cave to Hamas, are well meaning and feel a real compassion and sympathy for the plight of Gilad Schalit and his family. And most of these people even remember the horrifying years of bloodshed and mayhem that these Palestinian terrorists wreaked on us while they were free to do so, and how difficult it was to capture them in the first place. But those years of Palestinian terrorism are in the past while the tragedy of Gilad Schalit is very much part of the present.
The equation is tragically very simple, the release of many of these Palestinian terrorists would endanger the lives of every Israeli living here, while the release of Gilad Schalit would only benefit his family.
The welfare of the many must, Halachically, morally, and humanely outweight the benefit of the few, or in this case the one, Gilad Schalit.
I must add for moral clarity alone that Gilad Schalit is an IDF soldier who solmenly swore to give his life if called upon in defence of his People and his nation, Israel.
It is Gilad Schalit’s duty to fulfill that oath, even by being held prisoner for years by the enemy.
It is not the duty of the People or the Nation to sacrifice themselves for a soldier.
I hope and pray that our government stands strong and refuses any lopsided and dangerous exchange with Hamas.
I am sorry for Gilad Schalit and his family, but not so sorry that I am willing to die for them or see any other Israeli die for them.
Caroline Glick wrote a good article today, it’s posted at the JPost as well as on her blogsite. Her point, well taken, is that the Israeli media is pathological & deranged, that surrender is not the best option, it’s the worst option.
I think readers of Pajamas Media will appreciate her article since it applies equally to the American mainstream media, pathological & deranged being actually an under-statement.
The article is titled, ”Alternative to Surrender.”
http://www.carolineglick.com/e/2010/06/alternatives-to-surrender.php
Escapism and self-absorption, the refusal to admit that there are actual enemies, and the need to constantly blame oneself for the ‘failure’ of negotiations. These are some of the symptoms, anyhow. When I was in Israel in the fall, I remember watching Raviv Drucker and another guy on Channel 10 (I always forget his name; he also writes for Maariv), retro-analyzing Olmert’s ‘failure’ in (secret) negotiations with Abbas. Essentially Olmert imitated Barak from ten years ago – and without any mandate from the Israeli people – attempted to give the PA 94% of the ‘West Bank’ while keeping Ariel, Gush Etzion etc – and giving up 5% or so of the inside the Green Line land. The commentators had nothing to say about the strategic stupidity involved OR the fact that most Israelis are against such concessions. The only thrust of the report, which was long, was that Olmert and Livni had failed to give enough, failed to be ‘sensitive’ enough to Abbas’ domestic political problems.
We of course do not know if Bibi-Barak is doing the same thing. We only hope not.
Hi Larry in the Silicon. Hamas knows us well, they know we’ll play their game. They can always count on our idiot media to support any concession, any display of weakness & strategic idiocy, always disguised with lots of liberal BS rhetoric or maudlin sentimentality. The Shalits contributed their part, happy to be manipulated both by Hamas & the media vultures. And, sadly, we have a large segment of the country that is basically brain-dead, thinking is not their strong point.
Having said that, our politicians bear a large part of the blame for this disgusting situation. Fist, we should have immediately announced that there would be no negotiations, that Shalit must be released UNCONDITIONALLY. The border should have been completely shut, nothing in, nothing out. Electricity should have been cut immediately.
We should have begun targeted asssassinations of Hamas leaders.
There is more to this than the fate of one soldier, not that I don’t think that is of great importance. But, Hamas must absolutely not be allowed to win, we must deny them any victory, no matter how small, & at any cost.
But we don’t have leaders like this, our politicians are hacks & low quality jobniks & apparatchniks, just crap.
Agree, Terry in Eilat. Ken was worried I am advocating war. I guess he is right. I am advocating war against Hamas. I understand as well that the ‘establishment’ won’t allow it. I have lived in the country for six years total, speak Hebrew and know the ‘Tel Aviv crowd’ and the ‘Labor and kibbutzim own this country’ mind-set pretty well. They are difficult to oppose. Many of them are not nice when it comes to protecting the franchise, and clinging to hatred of the settlers, etc. What I read today was that Dayan’s nephew and Dore Gold are coming to the US to ‘explain’ Israel’s security requirements while Ehud Barak has given a speech defending his flight from Lebanon in 2000 and blaming Hizbollah’s growth on Israel’s presence in S Lebanon.
Bibi has married Barak. Well, this is basically what people want, or deserve I suppose. It is not encouraging…
Larry.
I always advocate war. War is the right way to conduct diplomacy in this part of the world. Winning wars insures peace. Preemptive military actions are an essential element of maintaining peace. Israelis generally can’t come to terms as to where they live, they don’t want to believe we live in the Middle-East.
”Bibi married Barak” – no, it’s not very encouraging. Actually, it’s horrifying.
The vast majority of Israeli voters are moderates, neither nationalist nor very Left wing. The majority of Israeli voters also live on the Coastal
Plain, the Ashdod, Tel Aviv, Haifa megalopolis if you will. They are not too concerned with the Territories, the settlements, Hamas in the Gaza District, whether or not Abbas is a reliable partner, or even the problems of the peripheral areas of Israel or the status of Jerusalem. The morning traffic jams, their jobs, their family outings, etc, are where their interests lie. Every Israeli government coalition realizes that in order to stay in power it must take the indifference of this population into account and avoid arousing their opposition. Thus every government tries it’s best to govern from the center especially since the Israeli media is ultra Left wing and pro Palestinian in it’s outlook and does everything it can to destroy Nationalist Israeli coalitions.
The problem now is that following the Oslo Accords and the overly generous offers made by Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert, the present coalition has very little room to maneuver in terms of territorial compromise. So much was offered to the Palestinians that they now expect to get everything they demand without giving anything at all in return.
This is due to the fact that the Palestinians now enjoy the close support of the European Union and particularly of the American President Barack Obama, who incidentally has a deep personal, political, and diplomatic animosity towards Israel and Jews.
So now the Palestinians expect to achieve all their demands, not by negotiating directly with the Israelis, but rather by way of a dictat signed by the EU Quartet and American President Obama and forced one way or another on Israel.
Even the moderate not to say liberal Israeli Ambassador to Washington, Michael Oren, has stated clearly that Barack Obama has deliberately abandoned America’s close relationship with Israel and is working hard to distance the rest of the government and the American people from support of Israel. The Ambassador also said that there is nothing that Israel can do to prevent this or to influence Obama in any way whatsoever.
So when you all criticize Netanyahu for not standing firm, or ordering a war, or imposing effective sanctions on the Hamas, keep in mind that with Obama in the White House we have no one in the world to support us or defend our actions and most Israelis want to go about their lives with as little trouble as possible.
We also have an ultra Leftist Israeli media working day and night to demoralize and incite the Israeli public in order to bring down the present government in any way it can, even if it destroys Israel.
I understand, Ken. What do you suggest? Basically, it’s what I saw in the early 90s when I was in that specific coastal plain and surrounded by the PC environment. Oslo was coming. Some of us understood it was a disaster on the way. I talked to people then about terrorist cells forming up through the ‘West Bank’ and heard all the counterarguments. Many in Israel like WiG, Feiglin and others opposed Oslo, were demonized, jailed or just ignored. Sadly, I hear you saying ‘nothing can be done because the post-Zionist crowd rules the country.’
There is no peaceful solution to the Palestinian problem because the Palestinian aims are entirely at odds with peaceful coexistance with Israel. Many Israelis now understand that the only settlement the Palestinians will ever accept with Israel is the genocide of the Jews and the destruction of Israel.
Unfortunately much of the West including the United States refuses to see this and continues to push for a peaceful settlement between Israel and the Palestinians, or barring that, an imposed settlement which would be rejected by both sides.
However, there are a large number of ultra Left Israelis who still believe that Israel has obstructed the peace process and that the Palestinians can be cajoled, bought off, lifted up, or whatever and see the light and make peace with Israel. This is the Shimon Peres school of peace making, that if Israel admits her guilt, tries hard enough, concedes enough, appeases enough, and prostrates herself enough, then the Palestinians will give up their genocidal and destructive goals. And these are the very Israelis who dominate the Foreign Ministry, the Israeli media, the IDF, and the universities and thus they are extremely influential in Europe and the US.
Indeed, there is a very popular albeit extremely small group of treacherous American Jews calling themselves JStreet who posit this very line and actually have direct access to Barack Obama.
It would be nice and solve a lot of problems if the Palestinians were held accountable for their rejectionism, intransigence, and their uncompromising stance which demands the genocide of the Jews and the destruction of Israel.
But no one outside of Israeli nationalists and our supporters is willing to even admit that the Palestinians must fundamentally change in order for a settlement to be achieved, certainly not Barack Obama or Tony Blair or any other leader.
Those same individuals will however happily hammer and villify Israel all day long for just about any reason, or no reason at all.
Mr Besig.
In brief, many Israelis are complacent & living in denial. Very true. I suppose their attitude will change when missiles are falling on their heads.
Many of those in the range of missiles who have not been in range previously will probably leave in the interim. Of course, this is a personal decision. I would have to 1) be there and 2) stay to criticize. But it is almost beside the point, since the govt’s responsibility should be to keep it from happening. I don’t know if you were in Israel yet in ’05, Terry, or following the news from elsewhere, but the majority of Sderot residents wanted the ‘settlers’ the h&^* out of Gaza, thinking that would end the threat to them.
Ken, I take all your points. I guess it will take some big shock before people insist on a leadership that emphasizes security and Jewish rights to the land of Israel. What I see is that the educational system, time, weariness and internal frictions and stereotyping have steered many Israelis away from a narrative of expression of rights and self-belief to one of self-doubt and rationalizing irresponsible decisions, or continual replays of policies that keep the country treading water.
As sad as Gilad’s being held captive for 4 years the consequences of releasing 1,000 terrorists is undoubtedly to high a price to pay for his release. I feel for the Shalit family as do all Israelis but one person can’t compensate for the loss of lives with the release of all those terrorists.
Past experience shows us that many of those released in previous deals rejoined their terrorist organization and were responsible for the deaths of many additional Israelis. The Shalit family is so immersed in their sorrow that they either aren’t considering the end result or they feel that the release of Gilad is more important then lives that may be lost as a direct consequence of their efforts.
I feel for the family and for Gilad but am totally against the exchange offered by Hamas. I hope and pray that Bibi won’t succumb to the pressure of this campaign and do what in my opinion is the unthinkable.
A thousand Palestinians for one Israeli? But Allison, that would be “disproportionate,” and I thought we were all against disproportionate responses in the Middle East.
Allison, Gilad belongs to all. The reason the Shalits can’t accept their soldier son as a war casualty is because cowards are manipulating them. Simply put, if a party you consider trash intimidates, frightens or manipulates you and if you are indeed intimidated, frightened or manipulated, then you assume the status of the trash.
I am certain Gilad sees it this way. Gilad Shalit is the most inspirational figure Israel and the peace-loving world have at this point. We root for him, not the trash. I would tell the Shalits not to undermine Netanhayu. He is the best bet Israel has at this point, given the mindset in Washington. Netanhayu is one leader who said publicly that the hostility next door is not a real-estate issue but a symptom of a tumor that goes way back.
It CAN
It CAN BE “a win-win situation”, and, 1:1,000 may be about right—comparative worth, you know: make the swap; then, seal the Gaza perimeter with surveillance to spot movement of any living thing, down to the size of a rat; stop the flow of electricity, water, whatever; then, go into Gaza and finish and end the war which Hamas claims against Israel, . . .
One-hundred and seventy-seven (177)Israelis have been murdered by terrorists after having been released from Israeli prisons. You can google it (israel+terrorism) and go to lindaslog. She includes photos of each and every murdered victim. I think this says it all.
It’s understandable that the Shalits would be working to persuade the government to “do everything” to bring their son home. But once they took to, in effect, demanding that Israel pay the “high price” Hamas is demanding, they lost all my sympathy. The Israeli government is responsible for the security and well being of the nation, not one individual or one family. Where will the Shalits be after the next outrage committed by the released? Or the marchers when their own loved ones are murdered?
I blame the Israeli media – Ynet, Maariv and Haaretz in particular – for stirring up the emotional pressure. I also blame Netanyahu himself who, like Olmert before him, has not put the requisite emotional difference between himself and the family. Right now there are US soldiers being held captive. Does anyone think the US would release the prisoners in Baghram or Gitmo for their freedom, or that Americans would march en masse in support of such a deal?
It’s also not surprising that the US reportedly is pressuring Israel *not* to cave to Hamas’ demands. Not because of the mayhem the released prisoners could perpetrate but because, by giving Hamas a “great victory”, it would undermine the current PA leader Abbas.
Too bad Isreal is such a civilized country.
Freeing their prisoners only guarentees future violence and death, even if they promise not to return to the West Bank or Gaza, they will not keep their promises. They never have in the past.
Israel should announce a 24 hour deadline for the safe return of any soldier. It should begin immediately. In the event the prisoner is not, G-d forbid, returned then Israel should bomb whatever area our soldier is being held into dust. Whatever town or village harbors the abductors shares their fate. Every Israeli soldier should know that he will see the enemy destroyed before his eyes. Every soldier must know the full wrath of the IDF will avenge him. A meaningful death instead of endless torture is a soldiers choice. Abducting a soldier is an act of war. Twenty fours hours is it.
Some may say my proposal is cruel.
But this enemy murders, rapes, beheads, castrates,hacks to death and honors those amongst them who murder their own women.
Against that sort of barbarity their must only be complete commitment.
G-d help me, I hope I am wrong, but I have a hard time believing that Gilad Shalit is still alive. I believe that these barbarians are bargaining with his remains. As important as it will be to have IDF Soldier Shalit returned to his family, I hardly believe that it will be worth giving the freedom to just one (let alone 1000) live terrorists.
Menachem Ben Yakov, my name is Nuchum Yahude ben Tsvi, and I don’t think your proposal is cruel.
this is really tough… I feel for this guy wanting his son back..
not sure what the solution is or can be…
I worry the same about my own son who is in the Marines
Your son’s well being will be in my prayers. I hope that he completes his missions safely and completely. I hope he returns home to you complete and confident that he was on the side of the right (sorry…..correct). SEMPER FI!!!
That being said, knowing of your posts here, I can’t help but have a vision of you in my mind. I reiterate what I said above, I hope your son returns home, safe and sound. But if, G-d forbid, he doesn’t, you will be the next Cindy Sheehan. Good luck getting George Bush, uhhhhhh….I mean Barak Obama to sit down with you.
Aren’t you allowed to have any contact with your son? Or is no one who is willing to communicate with you allowed to have contact with him? Do you know whether he is dead or alive?
I’m afraid I find your comparison to your own situation at best confusing? Are you not allowed to communicate with your son, or have contact with others who are in contact with him? Do you not know for months on end whether he is dead or alive?
This situation is particularly dangerous because if the Israelis do cave, it sends a clear message that kidnapping soldiers works, and that’ll only lead to repeats.
The Ghengis Khan in me would like to see the Israelis ask for a list of prisoners that Hamas wants to see freed in exchange for Shalit… and then execute every one named on that list.
The precedent has already been set. Israel has traded hundreds, including the child murderer Samir Kuntar, for the corpses of Israeli soldiers.
If the Israeli’s do not value their own lives why should anyone else? This exchange would serve to weaken Israel’s friends and encourage it’s enemies. Why support someone who does not care for his own life? If the Israeli’s want to die well its their choice, but they should not expect any sympathy.
BTW, I believe that according to Jewish law one may not save an innocent life at the cost of another innocent life, which is exactly what such an exchange would engender.
SO.. creative thinking? Maybe you can release the terrorists from prison, right after the castration, the estrogen treatments, the breast implants, the depilatory program.. especially the permanent mustache removal..
But seriously. Gilad signed on for the possibility that this would happen to him. He did NOT sign on to the possibility that his leadership, or OURS, would be craven, pragmatic and even Islam-biased.
As much as I wish for Gilad Shalit to be released, I fear this march will not make one bit of difference to the Hamas savages who hold him, beyond what they can gain politically and materially. They’ve shown the world, over and over, that they have no regard for human feelings or civilized behavior, but only for a totalitarian and anti-humanist ideology disguised as religion. To expect more from them is foolish in the extreme.
God help us all to be faced with such evil.
As long as Muslims, and Muslim sympathizers are driven into a tizzy when the fact of Muslims killing Muslims is raised, (and I daresay this drives how they treat adherents of other faith traditions, as well as no faith tradition) why not use this suggestion by Caroline Glick: http://www.carolineglick.com/e/2010/06/alternatives-to-surrender.php
So how many prisoners is he worth? 10 would be great deal. 100, 1000, 10,000?
How many?
Any deal means that more Israelis will die. That is a fact.
I weep that this wounded soldier has been left on the battlefield this long.
Bring him home.
Shalom,
Yehudah
I look at my oldest son, not a few years younger than Gilad, and my heartbreaks for him, his family and for the entire Jewish peopl. Who else is faced with such a choice? Either leave your children in captivity or subject your other children to the machinations of murderers. No other nation on Earth values every life of every soldeier as Israel does. Remember, the US despite its denials, abandoned hundreds if not thousands of MIAs in Vietnam, for a phoney peace. My head says that Israel cannot make the exchange for Gilad, then I see my sons face and I know what I would want if it was my child being held in a dark basemnet surrounded by evil- I would want him home at any price. It just breaks your heart and as sick as it is, that is exactly what Hamas is looking for, to break the Jewish people. Little do they know that we are made of sternet stuff than they can imagine.
Upon going through with the trade, Israel should set up the arrangement such that the released terrorists can all be immediately exterminated en mass via air to ground missle as soon as Gilad is safe.
Unfortunately the Israelis have one soft spot, one small area of malleable lead in their otherwise cast-iron cojones- their willingness to negotiate with terrorists, and to exchange murderers for hostages. This policy is folly, and plays unfortunately right into their enemies’ hands on too many levels to count.
The only tactic which works against extortionists of any sort is the Duke of Wellington’s: “Publish and be damned.” Even when the consequences are deadly, at least for one corporal; far more deaths result from the release of jihadi psychopaths, and those deaths are of innocents rather than soldiers who have offered their lives.
At “ANY PRICE?” – HELL NO! – Should it come to it – and – “AL-HAMAS” agrees, I will take his place, and spit in their faces, HE is My Cousin – THEY – are the incarnation of EVIL on EARTH.
Only HAMAS and ISLAM could screw up a 30 x 10 Mile strip of the Mediterranean Sea and make it a Home of Squalor rather than a RESORT!, especially with the EU rooting for them, with ready money.
Whether or not Golda Meir was right about the “Palestinians” loving their children more than they hate the Jews has become moot. Let them ONLY love MONEY more than they hate the Jews. They are obviously NOT THERE YET. -S-
Revise and Extend – NOT FOR MODERATION or PUBLICATION – Should Ha’Shem allow the “Gaza Palestinians” to be driven from their homes into the Sinai for about 40 years, as were the Hebrews from Egypt, it MIGHT do them good. It would certainly do Gaza good for that period, the “Sopranos” type stripping of assets would stop immediately (Remember the Greenhouses? – Bet Bill Gates was PISSED!.) These folks MUST be made to understand that their “Superioritan” view of themselves has NO Place in the Modern World, especially with regard to their actual achievements, which are next to NIL. -S-
hamas offers to change gilat for 6000 hamas criminals who are in israeli prison now. intellectually speaking it is crazy price that noone will pay. speaking as human being tradegy of gilat is painful for every israeli citizen, we hear voice of his mother every day, many times in a short radio social commercial. she askes us not to forget gilat.