Giffords Shot: Now, A Word from Our Gun Control Sponsors…
Between 1995 — just before Britain’s ban — to 2005, Britain’s assault rates climbed 36.5%, sexual assaults increased 63%, and robbery increased 25.5%.
By 2007, Australian women were raped over three times as often as American women, and British women twice as often. (All UK and Australian rates above are taken from earlier studies by this author.)
Last year, a taxi driver murdered 12 people in northern England, using a shotgun. Apparently, he was upset over “an ongoing tax inquiry.”
Also in 2010, a man who had served 26 years for a 1971 murder was convicted again for killing somebody using a shotgun.
Meanwhile, the Guardian reported that all types of firearms are “cheap” and “easy to get” on the streets of London. There is a thriving gun-smuggling operation from eastern European countries. Locals are converting replicas into functioning firearms to sell on the black market.
In sum? Australian and British gun control appear to have had no impact upon those wanting guns, or desiring to commit violence.
Meanwhile, as National Public Radio (NPR) and the Telegraph reported, Giffords supports gun rights. In 2006 and 2008, the NRA gave Giffords a D+. She improved to a C in 2008, but remains below the congressional average of a C+. For its part, the NRA considers “C” to be “Not necessarily a passing grade.”
Although political disagreement appears not to be a primary motive in the attack on Giffords, plenty of commentary now revolves around questions like “how could a gun rights advocate support the Second Amendment now?” This in turn provides a rationale to promote gun control by media and anti-rights politicians, silencing dissenters through guilt by association: if you don’t support gun control, you support murdering public officials.
NPR also implies that “vitriol” is to blame, since “some are questioning whether divisive political rhetoric may have played a role.” The Washington Post quoted Arizona’s Pima County Sheriff Clarence W. Dupnik, who “denounced the nation’s vitriolic political climate.”
The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous, and unfortunately Arizona has become sort of the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry.
Brady’s Helmke played the “vitriol” card, too, remarking: “We also are deeply concerned about the heated political rhetoric that escalates debates and controversies, and sometimes makes it seem as if violence is an acceptable response to honest disagreements.”
And Rep. James P. Moran Jr. (D-Va.) attempted to equate small-government advocacy and gun ownership with terrorism:
Moran said Giffords explained that, unlike in his Northern Virginia district, “a substantial percentage” of her district was “anti-government and pro-gun” — a potentially dangerous mix.
Curiously, Moran is graded F by the NRA and a Brady Campaign endorsee.
This rhetoric shows how the First and Second Amendments are closely interrelated. To have officials blaming speech as the cause of violence indicates that they don’t believe Americans have the maturity and responsibility to handle free speech, nor the discernment to differentiate between political disagreement and violence. This same thought process is used to justify gun control: we are not trustworthy enough to own guns, because sometimes, bad things happen.
The gist of this so-called logic is that our government doesn’t trust us and therefore needs to control us. This brings us to the original intent behind the Founders’ including the Second Amendment in our Bill of Rights: England didn’t trust the colonists and sought to control them through taxation, oppression, and disarmament, leading to the Revolutionary War.
Perhaps we’re coming full circle. Do those desiring control know this — and wish to halter us before American history repeats itself?
Does anybody know what gun laws there are in Mexico, that peaceful land of non-violence?
Dave Kopel has an excellent article on Mexico’s gun laws. If they’re lucky, a Mexican may be able to buy a .22 caliber.
http://www.davekopel.com/espanol/Mexican-Gun-Laws.htm
The LA Times, that bastion of conservative thought and TEA Party propaganda front (sarcasm off), has an excellent piece on how Mexican drug cartels are buying military weaponry on the international black market and smuggling them “from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors…”
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexico-arms-race15-2009mar15,0,229992.story
So you see, gun control works…for politicians and criminals.
This begs a question: If cartels can buy a large lots of fully automatic AK-47s on the black market for a few hundred dollars apiece, why would they allegedly focus their acquisition effort in American gun stores, buying small amounts of semi-automatic rifles for around $1,000 apiece?
Oh, shut up, Howard.
That’s really rude of you to bring facts into the debate!
Be careful … some leftist liberal will next accuse you of screwing over the common man and that Abraham Lincoln was a liberal and that … er, well, I digress. Don’t confuse them with facts.
Tee, hee, y’all!
How crazy is the Times. Everyone knows we are supplying the Mexicans. That’s what I read in my paper. OK, tongue now out of cheek. The media has their mantra, aided by their friends in the anti-gun crowd (Obama, Inc.), and have been running with it for some time. If only we didn’t have guns to ship to Mexico, all would be peace, love and hashish all the time in our neighbor to the South. Right.
The gun laws in Mexico are simple.
You can’t have one “legally”without permission.
The government does not give permission.
And this has reduced gun violence in Mexico by how much?
“Brady’s Helmke played the “vitriol” card, too, remarking: “We also are deeply concerned about the heated political rhetoric that escalates debates and controversies, and sometimes makes it seem as if violence is an acceptable response to honest disagreements.”
The gun-grabbing fools have yet to introduce ‘honesty’ into their attempt to disarm Americans.
They lie.
In addition, what am I supposed to do? Roll over, give up or surrender, when they are trying their best to illegally rob us and rid us of every Constitutional right.
The Second Amendment exists for a reason. Hopefully the Hemkes of the world never force the gun-owning Americans to use firearms in the Founders’ intended purpose.
We’re living in scary times. Soon an American is unable to even disagree with the politicians without being charged with terroristic threat and imprisoned for the rest of her/his life.
I’m going to be a bit crass here. This is not personally directed at the congresswoman, because I don’t know her, or anything about her politics. In fact, 99% of American didn’t know here until two days ago. I am a politically junkie and I didn’t even know about Sarah Palin’s crosshairs, so I’m sure this joker had never seen them. So, the question I’m going to ask, which is absolutely rhetorical, what makes Gabrielle Gifford’s life so gosh darn sacrosanct? The answer is because the Brady crowd sees the opportunity to pursue their crusade with relentless fervor while there may be a glint of sympathy for their twisted position. 51 people were murdered in Tucson last year; some by being beaten to death, some by stabbing, the rest by either shotgun or handguns. Are their deaths irrelevant? How about the many more people that died due to firearms in restrictive gun areas like Chicago, New York, and Washington DC?
The politics of this is so incredulous it makes me wonder how anyone could fall for it. Add to this the very real possibility the Sherriff’s department was apathetic to death threats made in the past by the shooter, even if we don’t know the full extent as yet. Had this not been a congresswoman, who is not dead by the way, there would have been scant little outrage.
And, as far as setting the vitriolic tone. Which party was it that vilified and demonized Arizona over their passing of a bill to protect their own citizens? Oh, that’s right, it was the Democrats. And where was the Brady campaign, Homeland Intrusionary, the FBI, and ATF when invading Mexicans were gunning down US citizens? Nowhere.
“The politics of this is so incredulous it makes me wonder..”
The word is “incredible”, Rik. “Incredulous” is a state of mind. Only people can be incredulous.
But otherwise, well said.
Her life is no more sacrosanct than anyone else’s but the reason this gets so much attention is that she was a US Congresswomen meeting her constituents as we want all our reps to do. When public figures are murdered, it gets people’s attention. As I recall, JFK’s death got some attention. Go figure.
“I’m going to ask, which is absolutely rhetorical, what makes Gabrielle Gifford’s life so gosh darn sacrosanct?”
She’s a politician and politicians think their lives are more important than ours.
They make that clear every single day of the week.
If a pol gets wounded in Tucson, it’s a big deal. Ceremonies must be held, politicians must express outrage, laws must be proposed, and light weight presidents must fly to Arizona and hold pep rallies.
If a kid gets blown away in Compton…none of the above happens. That’s because pols couldn’t care less what happens to kids in Compton, but they very much care what happens to them.
Anyone who trusts governments, or thinks government is there to help that famous little guy, the common man, the hoi polloi, is a damned fool. People in government are out to help themselves…and your ass is totally expendable.
Gun control? Managed by people who wouldn’t give a tinker’s dam if some thug blew my head off?
Ha ha ah.
Very funny.
Eric Holder calls for new restrictions on First AND Second amendment rights in wake of Arizona shooting:
From the desk of Attorney General Eric Holder:
Dear President Obama,
First, allow me to say once again how honored I am to serve You, our Exalted Leader, and to be available at Your beck and call to provide advice for Your Glorious Project. As per Your request, I have reviewed all applicable Federal statutes and case law, and have prepared a legal statement an plan of action following the deplorable attack by the Tea-Bagger operative in Arizona. I believe it is important that we institute this plan of action as quickly as possible, to ensure that we do not let a good crisis go to waste. It is especially important that this plan be enacted before the general public has time to “cool off”, so to speak, and assess the situation. An approach such as Your brilliant stimulus strategy, with a bill being passed and signed immediately, is our best bet for total success in this endeavor…
Read the rest here… http://beautifulletters-bls.blogspot.com/2011/01/eric-holder-addresses-legal-issues-of.html
More gun control is not the answer. Severe gun control will only mean that criminals and the mentally ill will be the only people with firearms, and nobody else. Given the speed with which Giffords was shot, I don’t even think an armed guard standing right next to her could have saved her. After all, Ronald Reagan had a whole Secret Service detachment surrounding him and the gunman still managed to hit him with at least one shot.
Perhaps if we had better treatment of the mentally ill in this country, those individuals could be identified and then placed on a computer data base. This list would then be sent to every gun retailer in the country. With our computer technology today, it seems shameful that we don’t have a more current and accurate list to give these retailers when they do a background check on people. The list could be maintained by the ATF (Bureau of Alcahol, Tobacco, and Firearms) and should be updated weekly, if not daily. Criminals will always find a way to get guns. The least we can do is make it much more difficult for the mentally ill to get them.
An attempt at ‘severe gun control’ will result in a whole raft of unintended consequences.
Liberty,
Good idea on the registering of the mentally ill, except this is not being done in any meaningful way that I am aware of and you can be sure that the same people yelling for gun control will be the first ones yelling profiling and bigotry at the top of their lungs.
It ain’t going to happen and institutions, other than jails and prisons, for the truly dangerous mentally ill are not coming back, no one on either side of the aislewill take that one on, in my humble view. Easier to shout the feel good message “Down with handguns, that will solve it all”.
Wish that it would.
FYI…Felons are not allowed to buy or own or carry firearms, but I run into felons all the time that can pick up a firearm with ease on the street, no big deal. If this kid hadn’t bought his Glock at a gun shop he would of found another way or another weapon. He was mental, but I don’t think he was stupid.
At first I was surprised when I heard that the killer was stopped when he had to reload. I had always assumed it was easy and quick to just switch in a fresh magazine. Could it be that limiting magazine capacity would have reduced the carnage? Then I learned that the killer had been using those 33-round Glock 18 magazines. “Ah, this is why that wounded senior citizen was able to stop him from reloading — those extra long magazines gave her a lot to grab onto, even with both hands while he was holding the other end.” A shorter magazine would have given her hands no purchase. The Virginia Tech killer, in contrast, used normal magazines and was able to swap them out half a dozen times with no one stopping him.
If anyone in the crowd had had his own gun, he must have been one of the first people shot — bad luck. Or, maybe none of them was carrying a gun. If any of the victims had the attitude, “I’d rather die than take a human life,” well, that’s what they got. I feel especially bad about the little girl — the adults in her life were not prepared to protect her.
Look, even if you don’t expect an attack from the criminally insane, at least you should carry a gun to contribute to society’s effort to deter (or stop) muggers.
It’s only quick and easy to change magazines in video games and movies. It takes lots and lots of practice to do it quickly. This guy was untrained and very inexperienced so I’m not surprised he fumbled it.
There was an armed citizen in the store. By the time he got to the scene, the scumbag had already been subdued. It is kind of a shame the crowd didn’t just lynch him on the spot.
At Virginia Tech, nobody rushed the shooter for a while, and he had two guns. He was able to back out of classrooms and reload in the empty hallways.
“At first I was surprised when I heard that the killer was stopped when he had to reload. I had always assumed it was easy and quick to just switch in a fresh magazine. Could it be that limiting magazine capacity would have reduced the carnage?”
Any proficient shooter will accomplish a reload – from shot to shot – in less than a second while moving or running, not to mention standing motionless. Any proficient shooter can draw and shoot in less than a second.
A very proficient shooter shooting 2 shots to 3 targets – a reload – 2 shots to each 3 targets: 12 shots with a reload in 3 seconds at 10 yards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAnnK63PqF8
No, a large capacity magazine will make any difference.
As to carrying a gun for self-defense – approximately 2 to 4 % of citizens of any state choose to carry a gun legally. The rest are at the mercy of the evildoers.
This is how the best in the world does it with a regular six-shot revolver:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLk1v5bSFPw
Like I said, you become proficient with training and mucho practice.
Yeah I saw that guy on the History Channel. It is some of the damndest shooting I have ever seen and he is quite accurate. He also showed a trick he used to fire a pistol. He uses both index fingers on the trigger with an automatic and I believe he holds a record for being able to outshoot a machine gun!
Definitely a good shot and very fast reflexes. I was talking about it the day after I saw it and our know it all (I call him Bullwinkle) said well he probably did not hit the target, but I saw it and he did with every round.
I might try his technique with my S&W MP9 but not my Keltec because I would end up releasing the magazine accidentally, I think my hand are too big for that gun! Seems my right thumb touches the magazine release which causes a misfire. Guess I need more practice!
It IS easy to drop a mag and slap in another one, IF you have been a conscientious gun owner and have gone to practice ranges and done drills.
If you are a mental case who wants the “rush of power” of shooting people, you are likely to fumble the mag change. It’s about “muscle memory”, the ability to perform an action without thinking much about it, because you’ve done it a thousand times. Practice makes perfect, and psycho murderers are usually not diligent about such things.
He had just bought the gun the previous month and probably never really practiced with it. Factory Glocks have a kind of hard-to-press mag release and don’t have a “funnel” shaped mag receiver, so precision is needed when putting in the second mag. It isn’t by any means a simple or deft procedure, unless you practice. The 32 round mag is also long and clunky, not intuitive as part of a pistol.
I personally am not crazy about the Glock design, and the mag release is part of what I don’t like about it. I am not surprised he got hung up on the mag change. When the morals and the common sense of the lunatic fail us, we can usually depend on his incompetence.
Is Jarad Lee Loughen the new Lee Harvey Oswald? Click my name and judge for yourself
Why the silence by gun ban advocates on equally horrendous instruments in our society? They should call for the ban airplanes because jihadist terrorists can use them to kill another three thousand people, or automobiles to save the lives of 50,000 people every year. gun control pushers have shown frighteningly little regard for the victims of violence, so what is the real agenda?
Am I one of the few Americans to be utterly disgusted by the crude exploitation of this tragedy by socialists, as part of the MSM and dozens in leading Democrats, for base political ends? And they claim their atheism indicates moral enlightenment?
Your rational argument holds little water. The other side does not want to be confused with facts. You simply cannot win against feeling. You must have gone to school when thought was rewarded and feelings weren’t important. Shame, shame on you, you have had years to overcome ligic.
Guilty as charged. When I attended university, being young and considering myself profound, I considered being a philosopher. Philosophy 101 was Logic. Imagine that. I suppose the intro philosophy class now is feelings.
I hope Philosophy 101 is still logic. I still need to take it for my degree.
Univ. of Texas offers logic, but at the graduate level.
http://registrar.utexas.edu/catalogs/grad09-11/ch04/la/grad09.phl.crs.html
Maybe it’s too dangerous for undergrads? It’s a liberal university. Maybe they instituted logic control?
Hmmm. That would imply some awareness of the subject, would it not?
Well, we better do something to control guns!!! With all the left wing media frenzy about this unbalanced killer, every other unbalanced guy watching porn in his parents’ basement now knows how to get the world to pay attention! The next copycat murders won’t be on the head of some sheriff who failed to do what he was supposed to do, they will be on the heads of the irresponsible media who tried to hang these killings on folks who were not involved.
I have a great example of a place with strict gun control and a terrible murder rate. Puerto Rico (U.S. Territory, by the way). Last year they had the second highest murder rate in their history (almost 1000 out of a population of over 3 million). It is virtually impossible to legally purchase a handgun in Puerto Rico. Still, criminals don’t have such problems or restrictions. Legal weapons are easy to control since you can’t just obtain it out of state and “drive” to Puerto Rico. I grew up there. The State laws and government structure in Puerto Rico would be the envy of many socialist countries. Law abiding citizens are screwed while criminals and drug dealers are well protected. Gun control only works for criminals and autocratic governments. No one else.
Last time I glanced at an atlas, Puerto Rico was an island.
Puts a spanner into the spokes of arguments that gun-related crime is so high in hoplophobe jurisdiction because the gangstas drive across state lines for their firearm fix, doesn’t it?
Take a deep breath and read Manny’s comment again – carefully this time.
If everyone at the shooting site had been armed, the shooter would not have gotten off many rounds. Ditto for airplane passengers.
Blowing windows on jets – not a good test for the pressurization system. Risk of hitting critical wiring, fuel storage… Oh yeah, ammo on planes is a great idea…
OK, OK how about spears on planes? How about driving a stake through the heart of the Christmas Bomber and the Crotch Bomber? They were both willing to take many lives and are rewarded for failure by being allowed to live. OK OK how about the get only pork for protein? Eat it or shrivel away, their choice.
Jane, Jane, Jane, you’ve got to stop getting your education from bad Hollywood movies! Guns on planes do very little damage. Certainly a lot less than a successful hijack would. Actually, less than some drunk passengers have caused now and then.
Here, see for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9sYXqO5L0k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrbvLbdZlag
You also need to look up frangible ammunition.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/frangible.htm
This is the ammunition of choice for sensitive environments like planes. What do you think pilots and air marshalls carry?
Also, as Mark noted, your concept comes from movies. A hole in the fusalage doesn’t cause explosive decompression.
Yes, I know, this is a little worn but still, cars have been used to kill people in crowds, the DC ‘shooter’ used a long gun, a local mental case here in our small town in West Michigan nearly killed an elderly couple downtown with a lead pipe, a college student was traveling home through our town on a train when it stopped to pick up passengers at the station he used the bathroom and was beaten to death by a mentally disabled young man as the 20 people in the lobby listened to him scream as he was murdered, the Oklahoma bomber used a bomb, those killed at Waco were burned to death, inconsistent strength and quality of street drugs kill a lot of people, what is that old saying “….if you see a pit bull coming at you hold out the arm you don’t want anymore and pray”, and that great story when I entered Canada for the first time the news reported that last night the local Stop and Shop was robbed at knifepoint, the criminal then fled on foot.
Point being there are many ways to kill, injure, maime people and hand guns are only one. Frankly I don’t have any interest in living in a country were only the government has the weapons. Real bad idea, methinks. Pitchforks only go so far.
Note: in my business most of the handguns used on the street were not bought at a gun store by the guy carrying them, they were bought on the street. I hear it’s a good and steady business.
Thanks
If the National Socialists make another run for the gun, I will continue to have difficulty finding .45 ACP ammo at Walmart. And that shiny new Kimber that my wife wants will cost even more.
If they go for it will be at their political demise. Guns are very personal. It would be like taking away an I pad from a liberal at Barnes and Nobels.
Don’t think anyone has or probably will be killed with an I-Pad…
Isn’t that what they are trying to claim? Violent language on the boob tube and internet are what causes insane killer’s to go out and destroy the lives of random people. Computers, typewriters and pencils are obviously the most dangerous things around. For the SAFETY of the CHILDREN (and politicians) we obviously need to restrict access to these DEADLY devices. If people aren’t allowed to talk they won’t be able to stir up bad thoughts. Turn Them All In People, only licensed and government approved people have any Need to spout their opinions. If everyone walks around in a gag how will you be able to recognize the ones you need to avoid?
I worry that guns become the center of the discussion surrounding this tragic event. Yes. we have a criminal undercurrent in our society that are involved in brutal deaths from the use of guns. But, we still have more deaths in this country caused by falls.
Therefore, is it now within the province of Congress to pass laws that protect us all from falls. Falls happen anywhere and everywhere. So, we need to amass extensive programs to protect everyone possible from death by falling.
Then, once we stop deaths by falls, we can go to the automobile. More deaths from falls than cars or guns, so first things first.
Cars are easier. We can just ban the ownership of all vehicles. That should solve that problem.
If we go down the list of all non-disease causes of death, we’ll have so many more resources to concentrate on diseases.
It’s time for Congress to refocus it’s priorities and channel our resources on saving the planet. Eventually we’d get to guns. So, call your legislators and encourage them get their priorities straight and start with asking them to provide legislative protections from falls. Go for it!
Loughner could have used a car in that parking lot, and killed as many, or more.
Comparing other ways that people die (falls, automobile accidents, etc.)to gun deaths is somewhat irrelevant to logical discussion on this subject but I’ll go along. To wit, we DO have all kinds of regulation around automobiles, airlines, home construction, etc., mostly with the aim of making our lives safer, and I believe it’s a good thing on the whole. My son was in an automobile accident a few years back, rolled his car 4 times and walked away – I’m sure he wouldn’t have walked away from the same accident in 1959 before the advent of seat belts, air bags and the wonderful safety design features of his Honda Civic. All the regulations that helped create this exceptionally safe vehicle were fought for by progressives like Ralph Nader (that devil!!) who put the heat on the automobile industry which didn’t want them for economic reasons and by defenders of “individual liberty” who always buck regulation. The same is true now with fuel economy regs. – some people look to the future and try to shape it for the public benefit – others look at a mostly mythical past and think they can turn back the clock to a “better” time.
The issue here is not black and white but I will say this – it was way too easy for this mentally deranged young man to acquire a gun – waaaay toooo eeeaaaasy – if gun ownership is so important to gun owners, what’s wrong with putting a little effort in getting one??? Are they afraid they might come up on some list of the mentally unstable? I don’t think they are (afraid or unstable), but I do think they’re way too paranoid about the “evil forces” that are out there to “get them”. So guns make them feel safer. Fine, I’m not so naïve as to think the USA will ever be gun free. It seems to be in our civic DNA and, arguably, in our Constitution (though there is a dependent clause that guns rights folks always blithely ignore). What happened last Saturday was only preventable BEFORE Loughner was in the parking lot, well-armed and ready to shoot. It seems he was putting out plenty of signals and there were many people who were scared of him. So why was there no preventative intervention? Well, it’s impossible to bat 1000 as far as prevention goes but, in the end, WE (not the Left, not the Right) all bear some responsibility for what happened. I’m sure this sounds much too much like “it takes a village to raise a child” for Tea Party tastes. Freedom and Public Safety are not mutually exclusive ideas, but, indeed, they are interdependent. WE need to work on our problems together and try to keep polemical rancor under control. As Benjamin Franklin famously said, “WE need to hang together or WE shall all surely hang separately.” WE need to think and act practically and compassionately about this issue, especially when terrible happen to US. This is but another test of US all as fellow citizens in the United States.
I am glad you acknowledged that the government “professionals” failed to stop this, knowing he was trouble ahead of time.
But you need to understand that government agencies have no duty to stop these attacks: http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/death-by-ignorance/
Nobody will be held accountable for failing to stop this attack. If they get sued, the Supreme Court will protect the government agency, as it has done every time such a case reached the Court.
So if we disarm ourselves and diminish our own ability to take personal responsibility via the civil right of self-defense, and the government has no duty to protect us, what do you suggest we do then?
Written like somebody who has never bought a gun. It does take effort and background checks.
A mass attack with a car would never happen where guns are banned – like, say, in the Netherlands…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/30/dutch-parade-car-crash-ki_n_193508.html?show_comment_id=23756309
Actually I have purchased a gun and it was an incredibly easy thing to do as I recall. I’m a gun owner and come from a family that owned guns. I shot guns as a boy and enjoy marksmanship. I just think the process needs to be looked at and made more rigorous. I did not say anything about taking away your right to own a gun, but society certainly has the right to decide if the ownership of a gun by a specific individual is unwise and unsafe. You complain that the government does a bad job at this and therefore, I guess, you throw up your hands and want government out of this issue altogether? How very patriotic of you. Gun owners, more than most citizens, should really be concerned about who is owning a gun. Folks like Loughner kinda give you a bad name, don’t you think?
Cars don’t kill people. Teenagers kill people with cars.
by the way, I think several laws were broken that day….
If anything, I believe the sellers at gun shows HAVE to be held to a more accountable and THOROUGH leash so to speak to do backgrounds on purchasers. Many buyers aren’t doing background checks on said buyers. That’s ridiculous.
Sad to say, but if gun shows continue ‘business as usual’ this will occur again, perhaps on a more grand stage.
Gun shows are the source of VERY FEW crime guns. See Dave Kopel’s monograph:
http://www.davekopel.com/2A/IP/gunshows2.htm#CrimeGuns
The U.S. Bureau of Justice, part of the Department of Justice, found that less than 1% of crime guns were bought at gun shows.
This gun was bought at a local gun store. Please stay on-topic.
Ah, yes, the mythical “gun show loophole”.
Memo to Paul: This guy passed a background check. No criminal history, no psychiatric red flags.
Dealers at gun shows DO background checks.
The “gun show loophole” is not as much a myth as it is a LIE.
“Memo to Paul: This guy passed a background check. No criminal history, no psychiatric red flags.”
This guy was a fruitloop with mental problems that seem go back all the way to his high school years.
Why were there no red flags?
Who checked and gave him a license\permit?
Who checked? That would be the federal government. All stores are required to phone in and get clearance from govt before selling, the instant BG check. If that psych stuff and previous arrests were not ON his record, the feds would not KNOW about them. That is down to local law enforcement, i.e. Sheriff Limpdik. His dept covered up for this kid because his mom worked for the county. Made the record go away. The system failed precisely at its loudest and most visibly outraged point, the sheriff his own self. He is trying to deflect blame.
Thanks Dave.
That is exactly what I was thinking.
He should be investigated.
As any computer guy will tell you, it’s garbage in / garbage out.
The schools and law-enforcement officers this guy had previous trouble with were too lazy to put those “flags” in the system. So of course his background check came up clean. If the Sheriff’s Department had followed up on him, or his school had reported him, he wouldn’t have been able to buy. (We can debate if that would have made a difference) But they didn’t want the trouble and figured that someone else would deal with this lunatic.
Every system is prone to human error, the error was on the data end of this system.
Old Soildier do you mean to imply that the very government officials that could have prevented this were, dare I say it to damn lazy to do thier jobs! Oh no, I can hardly believe a government official is a slacker! We all know they are the hardest working people in these not so United States. Just ask any one of them and you’ll hear how over worked and under appreciated they are.
It’s actually our culture that makes this sort of event “conceivable” for the psychotic, not political rhetoric. Just look at modern movies for the past 30 years, and the level of violence that people like this are exposed to. It doesn’t even have to be horrific. With all the talk in the other comments about loading/reloading, I initially thought of a “light-hearted” moved – Mr. & Mrs. Smith.
The sheriff gave a political and activist speech while pretending to report on the murders. He tried to create a conspiracy by making a suspect out of an innocent man who was shopping. And he slandered the general population of the State of Arizona. He bragged about his long years in law enforcement which in view of his lack of information you might wonder what laws was he enforcing all those years.
Liberals have apologized endlessly for what they perceive as the evil United States and its people. They have openly spoken of their disregard and contempt for the US Constitution so how can they be expected to honor the first and second amendment of the constitution.
So; Will Giffords get revenge?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gabriellegiffords/3904501891/
“More gun control is not the answer.”
It is if you want an unarmed and helpless citizenry that can’t resist liberal/socialist tyranny.
It is if you want higher homicide rates. The more gun control laws they pass…the higher the murder rate. True in the United States, true in the United Kingdom.
I don’t know what the solution is with so many guns around. The author compares the USA with well known murderous dictatorships and Australian arsonists. I just wish he’d address why the murder rate per capita is ten times the one found just north of the border and probably in most of Europe. This is the most rational and basic stat one should compare with.
The first step on the road to recovery for any drunkard is to admit he’s got a problem with alcohol.
Best of luck.
Jean
Find me a gun with volition and THEN we can talk about controlling violence by controlling guns.
Indeed; and the cause is obvious in the statistics.
Europe sent us its underclass in the nineteenth century. When we send them ours, we will find as little gun-related crime here as there is now there.
well said Jean
Completely fallacious reasoning. See my detailed response at the Tatler.
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/
“I just wish he’d address why the murder rate per capita is ten times the one found just north of the border”
The United States homicide rate is around 2.5 times higher than Canada’s, if that’s what you’re talking about.
IMO, the main reasons why homicide rates are higher in the USA than in Canada: firstly because we have a large black population that was treated like crap (enslaved, subjected to Jim Crow terror) for generations, and that consequently that group has a much higher homicide rate than the rest of the population (black people account for only 12% of the population, but over 50% of homicides are committed by black people…very rough numbers), and secondly because we have a lot of immigrants from places that are very violent (like Mexico, which has a homicide rate which is usually two to three times higher than the United States depending on what year you’re looking at).
If you didn’t mind being a complete bastard, and you kicked all the black and Latino population out of the United States, we’d probably have about the same homicide rate as Canada….guns or no guns.
Damn, you know what this is going to mean, right? The price of handguns, shotguns and long guns is going to rise substantially. So is the price of ammunition, especially handgun ammunition, that is when you can find it. I’m headed out right now to try and find some .357 rounds. This act of insanity, the shooting of the Congresswoman, is going to turn into another debate on restricting our First and Second Amendment Rights. Only now the congress critters have one of their own, Congresswoman Giffords, to hold up as a shining example of why they need gun control.
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“high-powered guns”
What is a low powered gun? A gun that shoots a round only 400mph, rather than 2200fps?
It is not guns the Marxists are after. It is control of people. Soon, they will make a law that requires you to buy health insurance.
Marxists hate the American Constitution, and Bill of Rights. All those who hate free speech, and the right for Americans to arm themselves should be tried for Treason in a military court, as we are at war. They are agents for other countries, and groups. Worse than spies.
Arm yourselves.
Reps. Brady (PA), Clyburn (SC), Richardson (CA) etc all think what you said makes you a big meany, and want you in prison. (sarcasm off)
I thought it was the Gulag my kind will be sent to for compassion training.
Same for Mr. IRA terrorist-lover out there in New York, Peter King. For years he loved the idea of IRA terrorists killing folks in the United Kingdom, but he takes a mighty dim view of anyone who dares carry a firearm within 1000 feet of the sacred person of United States government officials…like Peter King, which is why he just proposed legislation that would make doing so a criminal offense.
I don’t give a damn what any of them think or want.
Number one reason I keep arms is to protect myself from scum like them.
I really have to say that most of the hate I see out there these days is coming from the Right, just as most of the hate in the 60′s was coming from the Left. Believe me, Leatherneck, those of us on the Left love Free Speech and put our asses on the line in the 60′s when expression of our views was considered “treasonous” by many in the “mainstream” because we thought Vietnam was a bad war foisted upon us by morally corrupt leaders. Now, it’s “treason” again because I have different ideas than you do on a complicated issue like gun control in a country of 300 million people? I guess some things never change. Disagree with you and you play the treason card. Sigh… It seems like you’re in favor of my free speech as long as I agree with you – otherwise I’m a traitor? Frankly, I’m insulted by this. I’ve got as much patriotic cred. as they next guy, maybe more – my people came to North America in 1635 – when did yours show up? My ancestors fought in all our wars. I consider it a patriotic duty to speak my mind on issues which concern my country and I’m not secretly working (wittingly or unwittingly) for some shadowy group of conspirators as you insinuate. I just disagree with you. Indeed, I probably disagree with you on a lot of issues, but it doesn’t make me a Marxist. Who and where are these Marxists you’re talking about? I have lots of liberal friends who fervently believe in free speech and democracy, but don’t believe that arming ourselves to the teeth is the way to preserve and improve it. This doesn’t make them Marxists. Frankly, these days the thing that troubles (even scares) us the most is the paranoia and anger we feel coming at us from your “side of the fence”. We are not out to get you – we’d much prefer to “get along” with you. That’s all Cong. Giffords was trying to do by showing up in a Safeway parking lot on a Saturday morning to meet the folks in her district. Then a disturbed individual who shouldn’t have had a gun wrecked all that. That’s all I see – not some grand conspiracy – oh, if it were only that simple – but it’s not – but it does seem to me that such an event would make us more humble and willing to work together to try and prevent such madness.
Go read the leftist blogs and discussion forums, then the right wing blogs and forums, and get back to me on where the hate is found.
Oh, and as for where the Marxists are, check the White House (an avowed Marxist is now sitting in the Oval Office), much of Congress, and most of academia.
Fact challenged, much?
Mark V, that is who I thought the Marxists are. Thanks for writing that, as it saves me the trouble to school The Big Left Guy.
BTW Big Guy, if you are not a Marxist, I was not addressing your freedom to desire gun control. Had someone at that meeting had a weapon, and good gun control, the crazy would be dead, not five normal humans.
What does it matter when my kind got here, as I can do nothing about History? We move forward as a Nation, or divided by Marxists. Illegal aliens, Muslims, gun control is really people control, and government plantation are examples of Marxists trying to destroy American culture. It is working.
Mark V – I can’t believe you believe that all elected officials to the left of John Bawler, er Boehner, er Boner are Marxists. (humor on) Where’s your proof? I didn’t hear Obama say anything about being a Marxist in his speeches or his writings. If you want to believe in simplistic conspiracy theories like this, I don’t know what to say but I implore you not to. There’s no good in demonizing your fellow citizens like that. You can read/study The Communist Manifesto and not be a Communist. You can read Mein Kampf and not be a fascist. But, most importantly, you can read incredible lies on the internet and not believe them. You can show a little intellectual curiosity and examine all sides to a story. There are usually more than two sides even though that’s what our sensationalized media tries to reduce everything down to. Go to websites that are opposed to your ideas and see what they have to say. That’s what I’m trying to do and I’m trying to have a reasoned dialogue here.
“What is a low powered gun?”
Any .25 caliber, of course.
Reagan and Brady were shot with a .22.
The Old Media is making a grave mistake by blaming this recent attack on the Tea Party Movement, even as the nation mourns. They are relying on the false assumption that the American people are stupid, uninformed, and must depend solely upon them for news and information. But this is the Information Age. The “alleged” perpetrator posted a YouTube video of himself burning an American flag to the ugly Deathmetal song “Bodies”. That video has since gone viral, and is now all over the web. He joked of killing babies and was deemed unfit for military service because he is a druggie. In other words, he is the exact opposite of everything that the Tea Party represents. The Old Media’s hysterical attempts at libel and slander have deeply offended a very large segment of the population. And the people who they hope to help with all this, Barack Obama and the moribund Democrat Party, will pay dearly for it in the next election.
Can you clarify what murder rate means? Is it # murders/year, #murders/day, etc? You follow with another that the Number of murders…is that since 1990? per year?
Sorry for the stupid questions.
Sorry, should have mentioned rates are always in incidents per 100,000 population. I usually do that in each article; forgot this time.
Jean, you are attempting a straw man argument.
Canada has firearms-involved crime despite very oppressive gun laws.
What Canada does not have (at least in comparable quantity to the U.S.) is an urban subculture of murderous drug dealing thugs.
Bill and I have been neighbors for thirty years.
He’s a dyed in the wool Democrat. I’m a dyed in the wool Republican.
He thinks Barak Obama is the greatest president since Franklin Delano Roosevelt. I think Ronald Reagan was the greatest president since Abraham Lincoln.
He tells me a “good read” is Eugene Robinson. I tell him to read George F. Will.
He says his favorite blog is the Daily Kos. I tell him mine is Pajamas Media.
He thinks Keith Olbermann deserves an Emmy Award. I think Glenn Beck does.
He tells me “tea parties” are for little girls. I tell him The Tea Party is for true patriots.
He’s an Atheist. I’m a Christian.
Bill owns a gun and knows how to use it. So do I.
We play golf together every chance we get.
There is an opening page piece at RA that I thought was dedicated to the NYT but I can see now that it has the name of many media organizations and pundits – including their picture. It is called “The Hate Speakers Condemn Hate Speech with Hate Speech.” It is short and sweet but it says it better than them. They would like their comment at http://www.robbingamerica.com
No need to search, their picture is at the top of the page.
Put the blame where it really belongs; On the Chinese for inventing gun powder. Then comes the neanderthals that learned how to cast metal.
And as a matter of fact, neanderthals (Democrat/Liberal/Socialists) are still responsible for ‘explosive speech’ today. Pretty much like your average everyday suicide bomber. (They’re here posting irresponsible comments).
Do you think Loughner could have been as successful with a bow and arrow?