‘Gentle Justice’ Meets Mass Murderer
Trond Berntsen was not only the stepbrother of Norway’s Crown Princess Mette-Marit. He was also an off-duty policeman and former amateur boxing champion who was working as a security guard on Utoya island that fateful day when Andres Behring Breivik, dressed as a policeman, blew away as many people as he possibly could — including Berntsen.
Berntsen was by all accounts a brave man who made a heroic effort to protect his charges. Alerted to the fact that Breivik was acting suspiciously, Berntsen was one of the first to encounter and confront the gunman, although not before Berntsen had managed to save his own 10-year-old son by pushing him to safety in some sheltering bushes. But even bravery is sometimes powerless to save a person facing a determined murderer who is armed — because Berntsen, the real policeman, was not.
This lack of defensive weaponry is only one of several puzzling and frustrating facts about the actions of the Norwegian authorities that day. Because Norway has one of the few police forces in the world forbidden to routinely carry firearms, an armed SWAT team was summoned to the island. But no helicopter was available to transport them, and as a result the potential defenders were forced to travel the 28 miles by road and then to commander a boat that took on water because it could not handle their heavy equipment. Extremely precious time was lost.
But that was not all. The government buildings targeted in the initial bombing had light security, despite the fact that the offices of the Norwegian prime minister and his administration are located there. And it seems outrageous that the longest prison term mass murderer Breivik could receive is 21 years, no matter how many people he killed. Even if he were to be convicted of crimes against humanity, the maximum sentence would only be 30 years, although there is a provision in Norwegian law for imprisonment to be extended for a series of 5-year periods if it were determined that Breivik remained dangerous.
To us in this country it seems nearly preposterous that a nation could function with a police force and a penal system with so few teeth. But until now, it did not seem so strange to most Norwegians. Their kinder, gentler system of law and order was a pleasant philosophical choice that had cost them very little, and of which they were quite proud. In a largely homogeneous country, and with a long tradition of an orderly and law-abiding citizenry, things had mostly gone well since the death penalty had been abolished in 1902 for peacetime use and for wartime use in 1979.
This 2010 article about Norwegian prisons is enough to make one weep with envy of the prisoners. Wide-screen TVs in each IKEA-esque room, scenic bucolic settings, guards without guns. As Charles Lane, who calls the system “gentle justice,” writes, “The Norwegian Correctional Service’s Website makes no mention of punishment, but does refer to ‘services’ to which inmates are ‘entitled.’”
But note the tiny number of convicts, just 3,300 in a country of about 5 million inhabitants. Lane quotes a prison warden in Norway as saying, “If you treat people badly, they will behave badly. Anyone can be a citizen if we treat them well, respect them, and give them challenges and demands.”
Most Norwegians thus far have had no compelling reason to believe that this was false. Their society has continued to be remarkably peaceful, with an extremely low rate of murder, and despite increasing theft and rape rates during the last few years, both attributed largely to immigrants.
It is as though the modern Norwegian system had evolved in the absence of natural predators, and never really developed defenses against them. No doubt Breivik was familiar with the vulnerabilities of Norway’s police and population, and knew they would be unarmed. He exploited this fact in a fiendishly clever manner by using the first explosion as both a diversion and an excuse for arriving on the island dressed as a policeman carrying a firearm, ostensibly to help with security after the bombing. The uniform was a brilliant deception because it led the young people to trust him — despite his weapon — when he told them to gather round, and heightened the element of stunned surprise which may have made his victims more slow to respond than they might otherwise have been.
Because Breivik managed to kill so many unarmed people, and because the Norwegian police do not ordinarily carry weapons, some people have wrongly assumed that its population is completely unfamiliar with firearms and how to use them. But Norway has a surprisingly strong tradition of gun use for sport. While it is true that fully automatic weapons and certain caliber handguns are banned, and concealed carry is not allowed, Norwegians have a robust number of hunting enthusiasts and recreational shooters who own semi-automatic rifles and shotguns plus some handguns — all of which, however, are tightly regulated by the government.
And then there’s the Norwegian Army. No, that’s not an oxymoron; the country has one, as well as an ancient military tradition. After pacifist leanings during the 30s and a lack of preparedness at the start of WWII, Norway’s five-year occupation by the Germans was a searing experience for its citizens. On liberation, there was broad support in Norway for the idea that the country needed to maintain an armed force of a size sufficient for self-protection. As a result, Norway joined NATO, and even operates a current draft, although only about a quarter of its men actually end up serving.
So between military training and sport, the society is hardly unfamiliar with guns, although firearms are rarely used for crimes or in self-defense. Norwegians have been shaken to the core by Breivik’s violent acts; already there have been a sizable number of calls for the reinstatement of the death penalty or life in prison. Will there also be a public outcry to arm Norway’s police and/or security guards? What percentage of the population feels this way, and how many will continue to press for a hardening of security there?
How far the backlash to native son Breivik’s almost unthinkable violence will take Norway from its present system of “gentle justice” and weapons-free police is impossible to predict. So far the reaction seems quite limited, but that could change. The outcome is probably dependent on whether Breivik’s violence turns out to be an utter anomaly, as devoid of sequelae (other than grief) as it was of antecedents, or whether it turns out to have been a grim harbinger of more violence to come in Norway.
Gentle justice, indeed. Having killed 76 people and facing a maximum of 21 years in prison, that comes to an alarming 3.3 months in prison per person killed. It seems to me one can get 90 days in jail for a traffic offense.
I was waiting for someone to put this into writing. Thank you.
If you want to know why there is so few in prison in Norway. It’s a mistake to look at the punishment level and length on sentences.
People should stop looking at sentence lengths as a measure to control crime all together. Instead the focus should be divided into two groups like this.
- Length of sentences should be based solely on giving justice to the victim
- Minimizing crime in society is done by investing heavily in crime solving.
The key to having few criminals, is to have the police focus more on crime solving and less on patrolling. More investigators and fewer patroll officers. When criminals get caught, they stop committing crimes especially if it happens early in their criminal careers. And after a some years, the overall level of crime will drop off.
In Scandinavian countries you hardly ever see a patrol car. But the percentages of serious crimes like murder and robbery that gets solved is very high. In Denmark for instance, the number of unsolved murders since 1946 is 34. The perps get light sentences, but the key to controlling crime is in solving the crimes. The length of the sentences is less important (Within reason of cause). Scandinavian countries have relatively something like 3-4 times as many police investigators as the US.
The reason you want long sentences is to punish the perpetrator and give justice to the victim. Long sentences wont help reduce crime.
The problem with Norway is that they don’t give justice to the victims. And that is unacceptable.
Wrong on a few counts;
The key reason for low crime rates in most Scandinavian countries is social demographics, not police policy
No matter what the police do or do NOT do, crime rates will always be low there due to circumstances that simply cannot be replicated in other places, the most important being:
1) Extremely low national populations. All 5 million people in Norway could not fill an average city in the United States….In Americam there could be 5 million people on PAROLE in one city…Most Americans cannot fathom the need for calling anyplace a “COUNTRY”, with that small number of inhabitants.
2) Of that extremely low number of citizens, the huge majority of them are socially and ethnicly the same. They all tend to have similarly (high) education levels, and enjoy professional productive lifestyles, with much more to lose than to be gained from criminal activity.
Scandinavian “urban centers” are thus exponetially smaller, with far less “tribalism” and angry “us verses them” rancor than you’ll find in a typical American City, where the bitter “underclass” population of an L.A. or a Chicago ALONE exceeds that of the entire country of Norway.
Even when Scandinavians do engage in anti-social/nonproductive lifestyles,(drug abuse, welfare) they live in a wealthy modern country with practically zero defense/security/foreign aid comitments outside its own boarders. All their national wealth stays with them, and is available to them. They can skate through life in comfort and safety…hip, happy nere-do-wells in the “gritty” part of tiny city, where even the worst neighborhoods still attract cafe’s, tourists, and commerce.
You cannot compare, or extrapolate, any crime rates or police practices of Scandanavian countries, and expect to find some “policy” or “practice” that can be exported elsewhere that will yield similar behaviors in exponetially larger populations.
Put simply, “Good Neighborhoods” in America tend to have very low crime rates.
Amazingly, these multiple “Good Neighborhoods/regions” in America also tend to have populations, demographics, education levels, and physical envrioronments of similar to that of entire Scandinavian countries.
Go figure.
You can lead the horse the river, but you can’t force it to drink. Good luck with your boneheaded stupidity.
Good neighborhoods don’t appear from thin air. They are CREATED.
According to your life philosophy, circumstance always dictates results. No, actions dictates results. After actions have created results, ignorant sheep like yourself look at the result and call it circumstance. Circumstance was born from result, result was born from action. Read that twice.
Look at a map. Denmark has 5 times higher population density than the US.
And a high crime-solving percentage has nothing to do with number of crimes committed. It is logically impossible. Please tell me you know that percentage is used to describe relative relationships. My g-d you truly are an intellectual midget.
I’m giving you gold here. Don’t shrug it of like a moron, after thinking about the subject for 30 seconds. Just try it out before you dismiss it. Please.
While your essential thrust does appear as supplemental, somewhat correct—even, meritorious—as Buckminster Fuller said: “The medium is the message.”, your crude additions in coarseness make what good there may be of yours, rather choking to swallow—whatdaya expect us to do, agree with you, and say: “Yeah, he’s a g-d idiot.”? I think, rather, that, few here would wish to sit on the same bench with you, . . .
JL,
I am quite familiar with maps. Assuming you are using formula such as “people per square mile”,
of course Denmark has 5 times higher population “density” of the USA…
In other words:
How many “Denmarks” can fit inside the Grand Canyon?
And what effect would that have on crime rates?
Answer:
Apples…or perhaps, Oranges.
5 Million educated white people living together with low crime rates in a singular tiny place they call a “country” is no particular great feat. I drive through several dozen such such places every month here in the USA.
Now put 350 million people together, with 1/3 of them diverse and angry tribal members that HATE EACH OTHER AS MUCH OR MORE THAN THE WHITE MAJORITY THAT SUBSIDIZES THEIR BAD BEHAVIOR (ask about Dominicans gangs vs Mexicans, or Haitians and Colombians, or any such combination in any American City) and you will see why comparing any Scandinavian “country”, to the USA as a COUNTRY, is simply not an honest assesment.
We have allowed, in 50 years, over 40 MILLION criminal aliens to enter this country to consume taxpayers resources AND call us racists. Thats about 9.5 “Norways” of nothing BUT illegal criminals, all housed within our boarders, feeding off the generous American taxpayer.
And we allow the invasion of another “Denmarks” worth of illegals every year. An un-assimilating, non taxpaying, non-english speaking, Criminal Identity Thieving COUNTRY worth of people, absorbed by us, every single year.
Read THAT a couple times over.
The simple facts remains….the entirety of all Scandinavia is little more than your typical American Yuppie College Town, in terms of size, population, divesity, education, and employment.
As such, it simply does not have the Gratis to lecture a Whole Nation like us, on the workings of the real world.
“Good neighborhoods don’t appear from thin air. They are CREATED.”
really? if it is such a good neighborhood why such a horrific thing happened there?
I’m trying to reconcile your statements:
1) “Minimizing crime in society is done by investing heavily in crime solving”
2) “a high crime-solving percentage has nothing to do with number of crimes committed”
My perception is you are declaring a cause and effect belief in #1
(high solving investment = minimized crime, perhaps by a deterrent effect?)
It seems to be contradicted by # 2
(high solving % does not effect overall crime numbers)
All snark aside, what are you trying to say?
Amazingly, these multiple “Good Neighborhoods/regions” in America also tend to have populations, demographics, education levels, and physical envrioronments of similar to that of entire Scandinavian countries.
Go figure.
A Scandinavian economist once proudly said to free-market advocate Milton Friedman, “In Scandinavia we have no poverty.” And Milton Friedman replied, “That’s interesting, because in America among Scandinavians, we have no poverty either.”
Another take on crime in Norway:
http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/02/muslim-rape-epidemic-in-sweden-and.html
Root, simple truth, needed to be “said”, could not be more accurate, no progressive will ever understand. Thank you.
Very well said. You said IT without saying IT.
All 5 million people in Norway could not fill an average city in the United States….In Americam there could be 5 million people on PAROLE in one city…
oooookaaaaay
(free clue: Only one U.S. city has a population of at least 5 million. Most of the residents are not on parole
THE CHRISTIAN TERRORIST: THE GREATEST ENEMY IS THE ENEMY WITHIN
IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE NORWAY MASSACRE, TALKING HEADS ARE TELLING US THAT THE CRIMES OF THE ANDERS BEHRING BREIVIK ARE SIMPLY THE PRODUCT OF INSANITY. TODAY HIS LAWYER CLAIMED THAT HIS BELEIFS ARE INSANE. EVERYONE IS CLAIMING THAT THIS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS CHRISTIANITY. THE LEPRECHAUN ON FOX NEWS EVEN SAID, “BREIVIK IS NOT A CHRISTIAN.”
BUT THE TERRIBLE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS THAT BREIVIK IS A CHRISTIAN. HE LOUDLY PROCLAIMS HIS CHRISTIANITY. HE CALLS HIMSELF “100% CHRISTIAN” IN HIS MANIFESTO. HE CLAIMS TO BE A MEMBER OF THE “KNIGHTS TEMPLAR,” WHICH IS PRESUMABLY A REINVENTION OF THE 12TH CENTURY CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATION WHICH PARTICIPATED IN THE CRUSADES. WHEN HE JUSTIFIES HIS VIOLENCE, HE QUOTES THE BIBLE – LUKE, MATTHEW, ISAIAH, DANIEL, 1 CORINTHIANS, 2 CORINTHIANS, EXODUS, SAMUEL, JUDGES, AND PSALMS. THE MANIFESTO SAYS “GOD WILL ANOINT YOU WITH HIS POWER TO GO INTO BATTLE,” AND “GOD CAN BE A MAN OF WAR IF HE WANTS TO BE.” . EVEN THE DATES LISTED IN HIS MANIFESTO ARE ALIGNED WITH DATES IN THE HISTORY OF THE CHRISTIAN/MUSLIM CONFLICTS. FOR EXAMPLE, THE DATE HE SELECTED FOR THE FINAL PURGE OF MUSLIMS FROM NORWAY WAS IN 2083, THE 400TH ANNIVERSARY OF 1683 AT THE BATTLE OF VIENNA, WHERE THE MUSLIM OTTOMAN EMPIRE WAS DEFEATED AND STOPPED FROM INVADING THE REST OF EUROPE. JUST AS THE RADICAL MUSLIM TERRORISTS ARE MUSLIM, THIS RADICAL CHRISTIAN TERRORIST IS A CHRISTIAN. AND JUST AS MODERATE MUSLIMS MUST SPEAK OUT AGAINST THE VIOLENT ACTS OF THEIR RADICAL BRETHREN, CHRISTIANS MUST SPEAK OUT STRONGLY AGAINST THIS RADICAL TERRORIST WITHIN THEIR RANKS.
RADICAL MUSLIM TERRORISTS DISTORT THE KORAN AND THE ISLAMIC TRADITION IN WAYS MOST MUSLIMS WOULD NEVER ACCEPT. BUT NEVERTHELESS, THEY BASE THEIR TERRORISM IN THAT TRADITION. ANDERS BREIVIK HAS DONE THE SAME. THE ISLAMOFASCISTS ATTACK AND KILL THEIR OWN PEOPLE IN ORDER TO FURTHER THEIR OWN RADICAL ENDS. THEY’VE KILLED THEIR OWN PEOPLE IN IRAQ, IN MOROCCO, IN AFGHANISTAN. WHY? MANY ISLAMIC RADICALS GREATER ANIMOSITY TOWARD DISSENTING MUSLIMS THAN TOWARD WESTERNERS. IN PAKISTAN, THE RADICAL GROUP SUNNI MUSLIM GROUP SIPAH-I-SAHABA HAS NOT ONLY KILLED MANY MEMBERS OF THE SHIA MINORITY, BUT MANY OF THEIR OWN SUNNI CLERICS AS WELL, BECAUSE THE CLERICS REJECTED THEIR EXTREMIST AGENDA. OFTEN, IMPOSING THEIR RADICAL VISION OF ISLAM IS MORE IMPORTANT TO THEM THAN HATRED OF THE WEST.
SIMILARLY, THIS CHRISTIAN TERRORIST TARGETED HIS OWN PEOPLE. HE WANTED TO KILL MEMBERS OF THE LABOR PARTY, NATIVE BORN NORWEGIANS, BECAUSE IN HIS TWISTED MIND, ELIMINATING MEMBERS OF A LIBERAL POLITICAL PARTY IN HIS OWN COUNTRY WAS MORE IMPORTANT TO HIM THAN ELIMINATING AN OUTSIDE THREAT. I’VE SAID TIME AFTER TIME ON THIS SHOW THAT THE GREATEST VICTIMS OF RADICAL ISLAM ARE THEIR OWN CO-RELIGIONISTS. AND NOW A RADICAL CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALIST HAS ATTACKED HIS OWN PEOPLE IN ORDER TO FURTHER HIS EXTREMIST CAUSE.
IT’S TRUE THAT ANDERS BREIVIK TWISTED THE CHRISTIAN TRADITION IN DIRECTIONS 99 PERCENT OF CHRISTIANS COULD NEVER ACCEPT. BUT HIS VIOLENCE WAS BASED IN CHRISTIAN THOUGHT AND HISTORY. THE ISLAMOFASCISTS KILL THEIR OWN IN PAKISTAN, IRAQ, AND AFGHANISTAN. THE RADICAL SIKH HINDUS KILLED THEIR OWN WHEN THEY BLEW UP AIR INDIA FLIGHT 182 IN 1985 AND KILLED 22 INDIANS. AND NOW A RADICAL CHRISTIAN TERRORIST IN NORWAY HAS KILLED HIS OWN AS WELL. WE FIND THAT THE GREATEST ENEMY IS THE ENEMY WITHIN. AND THOSE WHO REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE CONNECTION WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO STOP THIS MADNESS WITHIN THEIR RANKS.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/tips-for-not-appearing-crazy-on-the-internet/
Touche! That’s gonna leave a mark. Heh.
Paul, I love that link! I gotta use that Lolcat for my next Caturday post!
Why are you yelling?
BUT HIS VIOLENCE WAS BASED IN CHRISTIAN THOUGHT AND HISTORY.
Excuse me? Show me one item in the teachings of Jesus or the Church that would in any ways justify this violence.
Some people have this strange idea that simply because certain people who call themselves Christian did bad things in the past, that the religion itself directed them to do so. To the contrary, a fundamental tenet of Christianity has always been that people are inherently evil and debased and that we will always, in the end, fall prey to our inner natures. Those episodes in history that people are so fond of pointing to when criticizing Christianity are precisely what it preaches against!
“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth, but a sword.” – Matthew 10:34
32 “Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. 34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household [Micah 7:6]
37 Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.”
The one key element in this lengthy passage is the word “sword,” and its meaning is now clear. It indicates that following Jesus in his original Jewish society may not bring peace to a family, but may “split” it up, the precise function of a metaphorical sword. Are his disciples ready for that? This kind of spiritual sword invisibly severs a man from his father, and daughter from her mother, and so on (Micah 7:6). Given Jesus’ own family resistance early on (they later came around), it is only natural he would say that no matter what the cost, one must follow him to the end, even if it means giving up one’s family.
The one key element in this lengthy passage is the word “sword”…
No it’s not. The one key element of that passage is that you lacked the intelligence to understand that the topic was spiritual strife and faith, bot violence. Just because there are lots of other people who make the same mistake doesn’t mean the error is in scripture
Oops! I seem to have hit you with some scattershot while I was aiming at the other guy! Sorry about that.
That’s called a metaphor
Don’t you love it when the insane fill up their capture buffer, strap on their drool cup, and then make the rounds dropping their rich and fetid mounds all over the net?
This bozo’s hit about 12 sites with this tripe in the last day. Probably had to take a break for med adjustment.
Vlad Tepes is a hero.. and an example of what happens when Christians are pushed to defend themselves against observant muslims..
btw.. the majority of muslims in the world are firm believers in what you call ‘extremism’..
the minority are the ‘moderates’.. ‘moderate’ = apostasy to any pious muslim..
Did you know that Hitler wished that Charles Martel had lost at the battle of Tours..? He wished he had an islamic europe to work with..
Looks like the EUSSR is making Hitler’s wish come true..
suck it up buttercup..
Later that year, in 1459, Mehmed sent envoys to Vlad to urge him to pay a delayed Jizya (tax on non-Muslims) of 10,000 ducats and 500 recruits into the Ottoman forces. Vlad refused. In order to provoke and instigate war with the Ottoman Sultan Mehmed II, Vlad had the Turkish envoys killed on the pretext that they had refused to raise their “hats” to him, by nailing their turbans to their heads.
Ouch! Something tells me that’s not what Jesus would have done!
but it was the correct action.
I now point to the Barbary Wars to prove my point
thanks for coming out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnFERo0XNFw
I am nobody.. but I can see the truth..
The issue here is not Christianity.
It is evil.
The accused killer, Andres Behring Breivik, began hanging with neo-nazis at 23 and committed the act at 32. He knowingly embraced evil and was very high order functionally competent in doing what he did.
The bombing was a set up (which killed 15) to get to this island and have the scenario where he used the police uniform to easily call together his victims before he did his real killing (80+).
Breivik set out to hurt the current Norwegian ruling elites and eliminate the next generation of Norwegian Labour Party leadership cadre in a single murder spree, and it looks very much like he did so.
This does prove Homeland Security’s point about individual white right wing extremists being the biggest threat.
When you look at this event from the standard risk assessment matrix of “likeness of occurrence” versus “magnitude of outcome,” White Western Right wing extremists are a great deal more competent in their killing sprees than the average Arab terrorist and have an easier time hiding their activities in the background noise of their native community. (See today’s ‘Sudden Jihadi Syndrome’ broken up attack at Ft Hood)
This mass killing is going to be studied very closely and lessons from it applied.
Unfortunately, the people doing the studying and applying the lessons learned don’t know beans about evil, but they do know the lessons of power.
Breivik set out to hurt the current Norwegian ruling elites and eliminate the next generation of Norwegian Labour Party leadership cadre in a single murder spree, and it looks very much like he did so.
==============
Guy Fawkes.. redux..
Perhaps what the ruling elites need to do is to ease the burden they created instead of ratcheting up the pressure..
Norway’s PM doesn’t get it… do you?
Please don’t yell.
Mr.Breivik also claimed to be a Pagan follower of Thor and Odin.
Insane,doubtful.
Led by evil extremist religions,na,maybe influenced by scripture while searching the bible to combat the muslims who constantly bombard anyone who will standstill with qur’an gunk.
He seems to be at war with muslims and politician that have allowed the invasion and erosion of Norway’s society.This concept is not hard to understand when you read muslim declarations that they are at war with everyone that is non-muslim.Norway has been cowed by muslim demonstrations,violent rapes of girls and women,a drowning socialist program from immigrant welfare collectors and known terrorist immigrating for asylum.
They have allowed their Jewish citizens to be threatened to the point that Jews have fled their homeland of Norway.Which seems ok with the large anti-semitic population there.Trading loyal,hard working Jews for terrorists or any muslim seems counter productive to me.
Funny the media is pointing fingers and blame far and wide but ignoring the facts of what caused this man to crack.One example is the 14 yr old girl brutally raped by muslims who have yet to be charged,she was so traumatized she committed suicide.
Norway WAS a gentle society that only espoused anti-semitism and U.S. hatred.By that attitude they invited true hate and evil in which bred this disaster.
The traitorous white Norwegian ruling elites (Quislings) thought that they could force PC diversity, multiculturism and mass immigration (from the third world) down the throats of the working and middle class Norwegians — while they themselves lived in their gated communities (with security), and in their college towns, and sent their kids to private schools (where the ethnic makeup of the students closely resembles that of the KKK). In other words they thought they would be able attack the average Norwegian citizen with their insane suicidal policies (PC diversity, multiculturism and mass immigration from Islamic nations), while they (the ruling elites) and their children would remain untouched by it. They thought they could live in their safe little gated communities, and diversity and multiculturism wouldn’t affect them. Diversity and multiculturism was only gonna be for the average Norwegian. The elites would not be affected at all by their policies…or so they thought…
The elites in politics, the media and academia marginalized, ostracized and called names those who disagreed with their policies (PC diversity, multiculti, mass immigration from Islamic countries). They called them “Islamophobes”, “racists”, “xenophobes” etc… They made it impossible for dissenters to participate in the public debate. It is analogous to a pressure cooker without a relief valve exploding. When you don’t let people who you disagree with participate in the public debate/democratic process — some of them will eventually explode and say to themselves that if it is impossible for them to influence public policy peacefully (debate, voting, letters to editors etc.) than they are left with no other recourse but to take things a step further…
The traitorous leftist elites, the sellouts, the Quislings thought that they would jam these insane policies down the throats of the Norwegian people, and that they (and their children) would remain untouched. They thought that the “right-wing extremists” would attack the Muslim immigrants thus ensuring the ruling class’ survival. They thought they could play Divide and Conquer. They thought that they could sellout their own countries and profit from it, with no risk involved. Well the traitorous elites may think twice now. Parents may think twice before encouraging their kids to be leftists, and may not be so quick to send their kids to these (indoctrination) “camps”, that are modeled on the Soviet state-run Young Pioneers, where youth were turned into Communist Party activists. If the traitorous leftist elites see that the “right-wing extremists” are going to target the white traitorous elites and their children, and are not going to attack the Muslim immigrants, then they will realize that their treasonous activities are not without risk, and they may think twice, or not….
Thank you for reposting this. I believe this is the root cause of why this horrible event happened and the motivation behind it.
The left is always lecturing us on how we shouldn’t rush to judgement. That we have to “understand” the mindset of the perpetrator. And that we — the law-abiding citizens — are responsible for (the behavior of) criminals and terrorists, and how we must examine the “root causes” of why this individual did what he did. And how we must listen to and acknowledge their grievances, etc… And when the criminal or terrorist breaks the law, it’s society’s fault, because we failed to hear them out and address their grievances. 99% of the time this is total BS. But now we actually have a case where we would do well to actually examine why this guy did what he did, but instead the left is blaming it on the conservatives, Christians, right-wingers etc. Hypocrisy, thy name is leftist.
Some day, the Leftists will go to lecture those on the Right about “acceptance” and “tolerance,” but there will be no one remaining to lecture. Then the Left will discover what the term “captive audience” truly means, but by then, it will be too late.
” Lane quotes a prison warden in Norway as saying, “If you treat people badly, they will behave badly. Anyone can be a citizen if we treat them well, respect them, and give them challenges and demands.”
Sure, that would really work with Osama bin Laden, or anybody else in al Qaeda. Norwegians simply do not want to admit that there are bad people out there who do really bad things, either because they are motivated by a political agenda or because they are simply insane (or maybe a little of both). And if they think they’re going to escape the vile hatred and political unrest that comes from accepting a lot of Muslim immigrants from Africa, they are simply in a sad state of denial. It’s only a matter of time before they get hit by them, too.
Looks like they’re getting ready to be ‘seared’ again. The viking tradition protected these folks for a long time. They’ll now have to remind the world if they want to survive.
If the police are armed then the population has to be armed in order to prevent the state from acting tyrannically. Logically it makes perfect sense for the police to be unarmed if the goal is to have an unarmed populace. Of course they are acting as if there are no dangerous predators as you say. Unfortunately the massacre the shows Norway is a perfect candidate for a Darwin award.
Smurfs or Schmoos.
They made their choices, and assumed, persistently, the moral high ground against the cowboy Americans.
A couple deaths is worth it to have a society like Norway’s. What did Camus say about Sisyphus? “One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”
Hey! What if Breivik decides to convert to Islam ;”repents”, and decides to join the Muslim brotherhood? Any bets the Idiot Norwegian PC government cuts his sentence, to say, 1 year?
“How far the backlash to native son Breivik’s almost unthinkable violence will take Norway from its present system of “gentle justice” and weapons-free police is impossible to predict. ”
It is not “impossible to predict” at all. It will change absolutely nothing. Not one scintilla of an iota of a jot. Once the needle of LeftistThinking goes in, it never comes out. The victims die with the syringe still stuck in the vein just like many junkies hit with a hot shot overdose. Bottom line: They. Just. Don’t. Get. It. And even after they’ve got it good and hard they still Just. Don’t. Get. It.
I have experience with clinically delusional people (and as a psychologist the author of this article could probably add something), and when they’re faced with countervailing evidence, their reaction is to dig in deeper. All this is going to do is convince them even more that they’re on the right road. That’s how they think. Don’t ask me why.
Some years ago I viewed a documentary featuring a German national, a Baader-Meinhof terrorist sent to work contacts in Lebanon. But he was captured by the Druze. Talk about short sentences. He was released after 51 days, an entirely changed man. Not at all someone you would be afraid to take home to dinner. He would not speak about his experience, but the result was amazing.
21 years will not change Breivik, but bring more manifestos.
But if the function of a sentence, as someone said, is to achieve justice for the victims, perhaps justice is done here because the victims do not believe in defending themselves.
GMTA…some background on the lack of security in Norway here.
Would you believe rape on the steps of Parliament?
Believe it.
“It is as though the modern Norwegian system had evolved in the absence of natural predators, and never really developed defenses against them.”
Excellent line.
Its not not just Norway, its all of Europe…
Their idea of fending off predators the last 100 years is to have AMERICAN BOYS come over and do it for them.
Then complaining about it.
Those Pathetic Surrender Monkeys.
try this idea on for size..
Andres Behring Breivik is a successful Guy Fawkes
“Their society has continued to be remarkably peaceful, with an extremely low rate of murder, and despite increasing theft and rape rates during the last few years, both attributed largely to immigrants.”
If I was them, I’d keep the judicial/legal/penal system they have now (because it’s been working impressively for decades) and slam the door on immigration.
Putting murderers and rapists in country clubs instead of jails, and then turning them loose after a few years seems crazy to me, but their overall system seems to work pretty well, except for this one incident. I think I’d be inclined not to go changing everything just because of one (probably) freak event. That’s the conservative in me talking.
I’m a firm believer in the maxim, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
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In that case I shall use your own terminology that you have used against The Root ’83: IDIOT, MORON, IGNORAMUS!
Yo are apparently such a smart guy who knows everything.
What you forgot to mention that the Norwegian ilusory security comes from the fact that the so much hated by them America would at any given moment come to protect their sorry a**es if the Russkies had any pleasure to take on that lazy and intellectually and morally deranged country.
However, it is more than asured that Sarah Palin will tell them to increase their military spending if they are going to be treated as a serious partners.
The Yanks are no longer willing to sacrifice their sons and daughters for the gangrenous member of the so called “ïnternational community”, nor for worthless allies in the even more worthless NATO.
Perhaps, when the “once were Vikings” are forced to sniff the fart of their Eastern Very Big Brother MEDVED, they shall no longer enjoy that compfortable feeling of having their security provided by the others.
I agree, Dave, but the problem is that socialist welfare states are Ponzi schemes and depend on steadily growing populations. If the native population doesn’t reproduce at sufficient rates, then they need immigrants who will. The state needs a constant infusion of Other People’s Money.
well then infusing muslims is a massive fail since they are indoctrinated by their faith to believe that non-muslims should pay the jizya (welfare)..
Sorry if posted twice. Did not see this on here, so am reposting:
Crime in Norway:
http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/02/muslim-rape-epidemic-in-sweden-and.html
” Their kinder, gentler system of law and order was a pleasant philosophical choice that had cost them very little, and of which they were quite proud. In a largely homogeneous country, and with a long tradition of an orderly and law-abiding citizenry, things had mostly gone well ….”
I do not think the problem was the unarmed constabulary. I think the problem was that the conditions that allow an unarmed constabulary to maintain law and order changed. it is no longer a largely homogenous country and many of it’s curent residents do not have a long tradition of law-abiding orderliness. Many on the Multiple-cult Left who normally love to talk about root causes will be totally uninterested in exploring the rot causes of this one, the destabilizing effect an alien and aggressive foreign minority has had on Norwegian society.
I am certainly not looking to justify what Breivik did but once wasps come to the picnic everything begins to change so why on earth would you deliberately invite them to the picnic? bad policies have a way of ruining the picnic. What will be the result of this chain of unfortunate events? A less pleasant, less from, more suspicious Norway most likely.
“I do not think the problem was the unarmed constabulary”
Well, think this…from Dachau to Norway
When unarmed people start getting shot,
they tend to KEEP getting shot….
Until the next gun shows up, and makes a fight.
I hope Atmel and Trolltech have their important IP stored away somewhere outside of the country.
No doubt Mr. Breivik will continue his killing ways even if confined to the country club and ski resorts known as Norwegian prisons. I cannot see a man of this type of violence just lying back and soaking up the sun until he is released in 21 years or less before striking again.
Breivik vs. Hasan and Abdo, Patriotic vs. Treasonous Terrorism
Anders Behring Breivik, the accused murderer of 76 people in Oslo and on the island of Utoya, will have unique advantages if and when he ever comes to trial. He will not be subject to American law or our penal system but instead to far less punitive Norwegian law and a maximum sentence of 21 years in a prison which more closely resembles a Club Med resort.
As an article in PajamasMedia.com observed, the Norwegian mass murderer faces a “Gentle Justice,” the Nordic belief being, “If you treat people badly, they will behave badly. Anyone can be a citizen if we treat them well, respect them, and give them challenges and demands.” (http://bit.ly/nYi1Vc)
Norway’s is an operable philosophy only if the citizenry and inmate population adhere to civilized principles and only when predicated on extended experience with immigrant influxes, which homogeneous Norway is not. Their system of “gentle justice” presupposes civil criminals and has yet to be tested on a wide scale.
Norway considers itself very progressive when it comes to punishment and in many other ways, including not permitting most of its police force to carry lethal weapons since Nordic countries don’t want people to get hurt.
In a very real sense, Breivik deserves better treatment than America’s homegrown lowlives.
As reprehensible as his murderous spree was, Breivik committed his atrocities out of a love for his country, albeit a distorted love but love nevertheless. He detested his exceedingly benevolent, socialistic Labor government for its immigration policies and, more specifically, for undermining Norway’s national integrity and culture by welcoming and indulging hordes of Muslim immigrants.
In America, we have a similar approach. We welcome and indulge large scale multiculturalism and diversity–and we’re reaping the whirlwind as a result.
In custody are Nidal Malik Hasan, the Army major who allegedly slaughtered 13 people at Fort Hood in 2009, and Naser Jason Abdo, who apparently was plotting to become a Hasan wannabe. . .
(Read more at http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=5131)