Generation Kill: Not the Greatest Generation
Not a moment of Generation Kill feels corny or staged. Co-director Susanna White brings a deep documentary background to the project, and the effect is immediately felt.
Some cast standouts demand attention. Chance Kelly cuts a chilling figure as The Godfather, the scratchy voiced Lt. Col. who lords over his troops not unlike his namesake. He supplies the miniseries’ requisite villain, but he’s still allowed a few human moments, like when he tells the embedded reporter how his voice lowered to its current register.
The quickest mouth in the wiseacre battalion belongs to Cpl. Josh Ray Person, given a great deal of humor by James Ransone (Prom Night). This being HBO, we’re also treated to numerous scenes concerning how Marines relieve themselves and manage sexual frustrations. John Wayne never had to suffer such indignities on screen.
Generation Kill comes from David Simon and Ed Burns, the creators behind HBO’s celebrated series The Wire. Their imprint is all over Kill, even if the setting is thousands of miles from their former show’s Baltimore ‘hood. The miniseries’ budget allows for superior location shots, with Southern Africa subbing for Iraq.
Not every scene is shot for maximum horror. One sequence has the Marines winding through a city street teeming with hidden insurgents. They take fire and return in kind, and after a few nail-biting moments the Marines drive away without having suffered a casualty.
Their caravan’s members slowly exhale, then turn to each other with child-like grins beaming across their faces.
“We got lit up,” one says, his smile the widest of them all. Even the embedded reporter drops his journalistic façade to appreciate the moment.
Generation Kill wisely includes plenty of dark humor, the kind that’s only possible in wartime. Commanders obsess over facial hair regulations. Marines hear a rumor that Jennifer Lopez has died back home and do everything they can to corroborate it. And the embedded reporter loses his only picture of his girlfriend to some lonely Marines. A snapshot of a pretty girl is priceless for men in combat.
Both Wright and the creators of Generation Kill insist their work isn’t political. But political theater often involves what an artist chooses to show and what he leaves behind. It’s impossible to deny Kill reveals some of their biases, but it’s equally hard to write off the project’s commitment to recreating modern warfare.
Generation Kill
A movie by confused upside down leftists who still think of themselves as progressive while vehemently and cluelessly opposing the liberation of 58 million people.
i don’t care if the book is non-fiction. the title was enough to suggest an anti-marine bias.
who wants their family members tied to such a title.
The title seems to be inspired by the resentment old-poop “anti-war” activists feel towards the young whippersnappers who join the army or refuse to march in anti-war rallies.
When the anti-war generation gets to the point where they can’t figure out the latest video tech or remember which button to push on the camcorder (a point that will be coming soon), ‘Generation Kill’ will take over and start making their own documentaries. Their point of view will probably be a lot more interesting.
I read the book, and it was a reasonably good accounting of one unit’s action for 5 weeks in 2003. The author Wright, who is deeply involved with the mini-series, did a nice job recounting some engagements and gave the grunts he lived with a great deal of respect and admiration.
That said, he absolutely savaged every senior NCO and officer, except one young platoon commander.
Marine Recon is the elite Special Ops cadre of the Corps; the cream of probably the best infantry troops on the planet. 20 years ago I had the privilege of working closely in a support role with special forces from all the services. Senior NCOs and mid-grade officers were the backbones of those units, and without their leadership and guidance, the junior grunts who Wright idolizes would never survive the first minute in combat.
The book, and probably the series contain biases and flaws, but just like David Mamet, who worked with Army Delta veterans on the show the ‘Unit’, I bet that David Simon and his whole “I hate Bush and the war’ crew came away from their time with the real operators with a new appreciation of just how special the special forces guys really are.
Since Simon is a gifted writer and has created some of the best TV ever made (The Wire, Homicide), the series will contain humor, realism and all the biases that the book’s author brought to the table.
In other words, don’t miss it.
Make General David Petraeus a five-star. He deserves to be up there with Eisenhower, Bradley, and McArthur. In eight years, he can run for President. What these idiots can’t stand is that we’re winning.
With the exception among MSM reviews (one by a Washington Post reporter, formerly embedded) all, including this one, suffer from lack of research into the experiences and views of others in the recon unit, critical of its errors and misleading emphases.
I did this research in “Take HBO’s Generation Kill With A Grain Of Salt” http://www.Democracy-Project.com/archives/003870.html
Take a look and think and see for yourself.
The producers of the show have (by Hollyweird standards) few recorded campaign contributions to Dems. I could only uncover a couple by head honcho David Simon, who nonetheless fumes about the “capitalist system” every interview he has.
None to the GOP, of course.
Hilarious that anti-war lefties make this movie after we won the freakin’ war. Sour grapes much?
When will Hollywood fall all over itself to chronicle the longest-serving, on-the-front-line journalist in Iraq, Michael Yon? Won’t hold my breath…
I do not understand why David Bellavia’s memoir of Iraq and the second Battle of Fallujah (“House to House”) had not been made into a movie. It is because his memoir is not antiwar (it is neutral on the war, although he understands the mission). He is articulate, bawdy, savage, and realistic. The men have been fighting house-to-house for weeks and are filthy, tired, hungry and avoiding death from booby-trapped houses everday. But they are professional warriors with the warrior ethos, willing to kill and, if necessary, be killed. He has contempt for the REM’s (“Rear Echelon Motherfuckers”), the brass who helicopter in for photo opportunities with “the grunts.” At the same time, he has respect for combat brass, the fighting captains who are shoulder to shoulder with their men and watch over them. He recognizes the bravery of the enemy who will sometimes expose himself to fire (and certain death), so that the other insurgencts will know where the Americans are. At one point, he describes an apocalyptic scene in Fallujah where wild dogs are feasting on the bodies of dead insurgent killed by the Americans. The climatic scene is his hand-to-hand battle with an insurgent that recalls a scene in “Saving Privte Ryan.” He won the Silver Star for the engagement and was nominated for the Congressional Medal of Honor. At the same times, he is fearful and has moments of doubt about his own courage and agonizes (as a sargeant) over the fate of his men. It is the best war book that I have ever read. Some chapters are so taut and action-packed that they seem ready for incorporation into a screenplay. I have heard nothing about his book being filmed. Is he being ignored because the book lacks an antiwar title and message?
I hate to tell y’all this, but the dialogue from the Marines in the miniseries probably follows most of the dialogue in the book – at least, from what I can tell after remembering some of the amusing conversations Wright heard and recorded in the book.
davod: i don’t care if the book is non-fiction. the title was enough to suggest an anti-marine bias.
Mary Madigan: The title seems to be inspired by the resentment old-poop “anti-war” activists feel towards the young whippersnappers who join the army or refuse to march in anti-war rallies.
Hey, the title points to the truth: they’re young Marines in combat, the spearhead of the Iraq invasion, and they’re not afraid to kill their enemies.
While Wright’s bias comes through pretty clear in parts of the book, it’s still a good read. Sounds like the mini follows it pretty faithfully. Nathaniel Fick, who is introduced in Wright’s Generation Kill, later wrote his own memoir, One Bullet Away. It has a much more neutral tone, but I’d say Fick corroborated everything that Wright wrote about his time spent with the Marines during the invasion.
Who cares if its “non-fiction”? All that means in this context is that the author kept to a general storyline that squared with actual events. Doesn’t mean the little details and all the dialogue were somehow transcribed and independently verified. And from what i can see (from the HBO previews) that dialogue makes every one of the soldiers look like the worst that society has to offer.
I could make a “non-fiction” series too. Embed me in a large mainstream media operation and I’ll take lots of notes – we’ll call it “The Paper” – and see how I portray the journalists involved. And you won’t be able to argue with my portrayal of said journalists because, after all, I kept a notebook. That, and I had some kind words for a couple low-level copy editors which proves I went in there with an open mind.
From watching the trailer, I have to say it reminded me of my time in the service. Granted, I was in the most seemingly genteel service there is, the Coast Guard, but I think if you were to do a film or miniseries about the era I served, it could come out the same way. I served from ’86 to ’90 and if you were to have taken notes of what I encountered, or what I’d said during that period, you would have heard things that were very similar for the era.
You would have heard racism, both good natured joking between different races and actual, virulent racism. Anti-Reagan comments because he cut our budget so much we had to borrow money from the Navy. (In fact, as an aside, the different unit’s budgets were separate, and while we had to use borrowed Navy money to keep our cutter running, Support Center New York was able to spend $3,000 toward putting trees around a dumpster. This sounds like something out of the very liberal MASH, but it happened). You would have heard people lamenting that we had to send Haitians back to Haiti, but every Cuban got a pass, and we would wonder if it were racism. You would see Coasties zealously persecuting the “War on Drugs” and then, back in home port, smoke enough weed to choke a Rastafarian. You would hear people making crude comments about floaters and bloaters and jumpers. I could go on and on, but this paragraph is already too long.
I guess what I’m trying to say is, take it with a grain of salt, and realize these are young men in a very bad situation. The reviewer has only seen one episode of a seven part series. As far as balance goes, who knows, there may be scenes of great heroism in future episodes. And as far as “this isn’t the Greatest Generation” goes, as someone who’s been studying WW2 since I was 10 (I’m now 42), the Greatest Generation could be just as rude, crude and cynical as the generations that came after them. Also, so many rapid, stunning victories in American history happened in spite of the military, I can’t see how some things that happened in Iraq could be much different. Wasn’t Baghdad taken before it was supposed to be? Just like Patton’s victories that took the High Command by surprise?
I don’t think I’m trying to defend what may be in this show, because, like you, I haven’t seen it yet. But I know there are a lot of people who haven’t served and have no idea what it’s like to be in the Armed Forces. I’ll never compare my Cold War service to those who’ve served in a “hot war”, but I can’t imagine they’re much different. And, you know what else? I think Marines are our country at it’s best. As far as personal experience goes, they would let us Coasties into their Devil Dog club in Gitmo and be really cool to us, but they wouldn’t allow a squid to be in there very long.
I closing, I supported the war in Iraq and I voted for Bush in ’04, and I support the continued victory now. I guess I’m just trying to make this into a conversation,. What do other veterans here think?
Preaching to the choir.
Their only advantage is they don’t have to sell tickets, so no one will know how much money this thing loses.
I’ve made it a point in recent years to boycott just about everything that den of Communists produces about our military and our battles against our enemies. I went to see Clint Eastwood’s two productions and liked them both. I went to see “We Were Soldiers” (based on the book by Joe Galloway and Ret. Gen. Hal Moore). I liked the series “Band of Brothers.” But, overall, Hollywood has a long history of trashing our military and our nation’s war efforts.
I am a U.S. Army veteran who served his enlistment right after we had withdrawn from the Republic of Vietnam – victorious and with honor. So, I knew many battle veterans, officer and enlisted. I get tired of the way the journalist and entertainment people put down this country and its warriors.
Hollywood can kiss my derriere. They should apologize to all the veterans of our wars. These perfidious scum just nauseate me.
The tired old cliche of the senior NCOs and officers being tied to the regs, while the junior soldiers ignore them and get on with the fight, is pure hollywood. Just like the cliche of the mentally wounded Viet Nam vet who can’t get on with his life and is forever trapped in a drug and booze addled haze. The fact that we once again have a Viet Nam vet running for president won’t do a single thing to dissuade your local Lefty that they know about soldiers and combat better than you. Even if the closest they ever got to a soldier was to spit on the back of his uniform. In movies, that prejudice will never be far from any Lefty’s grab bag of pre-built personalities, especially if they are producing or directing an anti-war film and need to save time in establishing bona fides for the cast. Just accept that it’s there, it will only die off when the people who hold that prejudice do the same. Based on pictures I’ve seen of the recent demonstrations in Berkeley, I’m guessing that’s about ten years off.
Can’t come soon enough for me.
Yawn. Give me a break. I’m a former Marine, just finished watching the first episode. I’m also very politically conservative, and I’m sorry but I saw a pretty accurate portrayal of Marines in the field. Homophobic? Uhhhh, YEAH. Profane? YEAH. Racist banter? Sure happens. HBO focussed on how Marines relieved their sexual frustrations and their body functions? When you’re filthy and sharing close quarters in those conditions, uhhhh, masturbation is a running joke, it’s not hidden, and sex is a CONSTANT topic of conversation. In very graphic detail. And if you get a few beers into a grunt, some of the funniest anecdotes you’ll get out of him will involve trying to take a dump under fire. Or when he got caught with his pants down when the gas alert was sounded. The Marine saying the 4th grader was “hot”? Uhhhh these are Marines. Rude, crude, socially unacceptable in the best of circumstances. These guys have been in the desert for months, preparing to kill or be killed. They aren’t going to be politically correct. Much of the humor is black, and quite frankly, civilians won’t “get it”. Obviously many didn’t. “Anti-Invasion”? Cpl Person delivers quite the excellent verbal reply to the peacenik’s letter, and he sums up the attitudes of many Marines. What do you want from these guys, political commentary a la Rush Limbaugh? They’re out in the field doing what Marines do–they’ve been ordered to take out the trash. How many garbagemen spend hours debating the pros and cons of their jobs? There are a number of Marines on the set who were THERE, and in the interviews I’ve seen of them, they have no issue with the mini series. This is one former Marine who’s thoroughly enjoying a fairly realistic depiction of how the grunts do their biz.
I ain’t going to waste my time with this crap. I’ll just watch “Sands of Iwo Jima” again.
wGraves:
Make General David Petraeus a five-star. He deserves to be up there with Eisenhower, Bradley, and McArthur. In eight years, he can run for President. What these idiots can’t stand is that we’re winning.
Your worship is duly noted.
However, Petraus is a newly promoted 4-star managing a chickenshit little conflict where we have killed about 3,000 enemy since he took over and lost under 500. He is doing nothing on the scale of WWII, WWI, the Civil War, even Korea or Vietnam.
Eisenhower managed 11 million men at arms and lost 200,000 while his forces took 2,5 million enemy soldier and civilian lives. Same deal with Marshall, Bradley, McArthur, General Sir William Slim, Montgomery, Zhukov..
As good as Petreaus is in managing a small insurgency mess Bush, Bremer, and the Neocons blundered into….giving him 5 stars would be about as appropriate as giving John Kerry a belated Medal of Honor…and Petraeus would be the 1st to tell clueless worshippers it was so.
There will be no “win”, BTW. The best we can get is a “draw” where ingrate Shiites in control of Iraq tell Americans “thanks for nothing”, but the country somehow remains stable thanks to Petraeus’s good counterinsurgency work.
The only “victory” we will have for 1 1/2 trillion pissed away is we helped AQ inflict a strategic defeat on itself in Iraq.
The war in Afghanistan is not going to be won, as well, because the lawless, primitive people there with the most reactionary form of Islam outide Wahabbism are incapable of modern democracy, modernization itself. All we have is our pet President Karzai and a little Potemkin village in Kabul kept alive by foreing blood and money – the rest of the country is Warlords or Taliban back in charge.
HBO? Eh. That’s so 1980s. Who watches HBO anymore? HBO is the modern equivalent of “straight to VHS”.
If this were a real movie it would be in theaters.
Barton, TV is for losers. Even if I was a loser that watched TV, I would NEVER watch anything by HBO. Get on the Web, bud. Learn to think for yourself, instead of having bullsh1t pumped into your head between infomercials. Get off the couch, out of the recliner and lose the remote. Log on or go for a walk. ANything is better then the boob tube.
If you really are such a doofus as to need someone to entertain you, find a book.
Watched the first episode. It’s also the last for me. If they can’t find a way to either inform or entertain me in over an hour, the rest will be boring, too. Same tired old circle-jerk of lefties recycling anti-troop stereotypes to demonstrate their “superiority.” I won’t bother to read the book, since the author was involved in this.
I’m happier to pay for images and narrative from Michael Yon, JD Johannes, et al.
Hey, the title points to the truth: they’re young Marines in combat, the spearhead of the Iraq invasion, and they’re not afraid to kill their enemies
Why would anyone be ‘afraid’ to kill their enemies? No species could survive without the ability to defend itself. Marines differ from the ordinary population in that they are well trained, well organized and legally authorized to do so.
I saw the show last night, and it did have some of the standard anti-war cliches, like abusive leaders who were not characters, just caricatures. Some of the dialogue sounded genuine, some didn’t. But the title still bugs me.
Those who call themselves ‘anti-war’ are anxious to emphasize the fact that Marines are trained killers. They usually fail to emphasize the fact that Marines are protectors, who have chosen to defend their country and their ‘brothers’. If a show about the Greatest Generation was titled “Generation Kill” instead of “Band of Brothers”, most people would find that pretty offensive. For good reason.
I think HBO has a pretty good track record–Band of Brothers, John Adams, Sopranos–and I’m going to give it a try for Gen Kill.
Back in the last ’69, I was an infantry squad leader in Viet Nam. One day, while we were being resupplied by helicopter out in the bush, a camera crew arrived along with the things we needed.
A while later, our Captain came over to me with the crew in tow and asked me if I wanted to take them out on a patrol I was about to leave on. In one of my proudest moments in the war, I replied, in my New York fashion with a question, “Do I have to bring them back?” We went out; they didn’t.
I am profoundly uncomfortable with media involvement in combat operations. It’s one more thing to worry about when everyone is chock full of worries already. Nobody goes into a restaurant through the kitchen. Our combat soldiers deserve similar respect. Let the media build their résumés on someone else’s work.
All you whiners, go out write a screen play you like and get it produced. You are always talking about how great capitalism is. Hollywood doesn’t control the world and there are pleny of people who would make any sort of movie, especially outside of America, for next to nothing. With all the money the Right has, they must be bone stupid not to finance some pro war movies. One week of Fat Limbo’s pay could make a decent indie in Eastern Europe of Morocco.
“Why would anyone be ‘afraid’ to kill their enemies? ”
Cause they are civilized and do not want to hurt or kill? You seem to exult in war and killling. You are as dense as right wing. How are they protecting America in Iraq, please tell me.
Samford
99% of TV sucks. I watched Homicide and will see Generation Kill because I read the books and liked them, with reservations.
You make ridiculous assumptions based on zero primary knowledge about someone you don’t know.
Don’t preach to your betters or call them names, moron.
No, thanks.
I’ll stick with Military Channel’s war diary.
Cause they are civilized and do not want to hurt or kill?
Civilized people can choose not to hurt and kill, but they wouldn’t make that choice because they’re ‘afraid’ to do these things. Some people would rather die at the hands of an enemy than inflict harm, but fear isn’t a part of that equation.
While the desire to die rather than to inflict harm on one’s enemy is noble, it’s an article of faith, not successful politics. There are no successful, independent civilizations built on that foundation.
Our soldiers should not have to defend our ideologies or our war planners. That’s not their job. If HBO produced a series about the people who planned that war (like Rumsfeld) without planning for the inevitable insurgency, and if they’d titled it “Generation Morons”, I’d be ok with that.
When considering things like this, I’m just sick and tired of having to wade through the author’s leftist bias. No matter how good the underlying material might be, getting to it is not worth the hassle. And in the case of Generation Kill, the author’s leftist bias starts with the title, fer crisssakes. I’ve got better things to do with my time.
Quickstrike is dead on.
Y’all have no clue. Give it up. Just cause the Marines aren’t constantly screaming “Get Some” doesn’t mean they are anti-war.
As a former Marine, everything said and done in the 1st episode was dead-on from my experience when I served in the early 90s.
Barton – This unit is Recon Battalion. NOT Force Recon. Force Recon is Marine Corps Special Forces, Recon Battalion isn’t.
Force Recon gets all the high-speed, low-drag training. Battalion Recon Marines are lucky to get jump qualed and scuba qualed.
This unit is not the Creme of the Corps like you think. These are not special operators. These are not Special forces.
These are your basic Infantray Marine, with a more defined mission then your basic Infantry Marine.
I promise that everyone of these Marines has one of the basic 03 Infantry designators… 0311, 0331, 0341. None of them have the 0321 Recon designator.
0311:
You’re wrong, bro’.
1st *Force* Recon Battalion is the real deal:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Reconnaissance_Battalion
Jack
0311:
This explains it a little better, I think:
http://www.specialoperations.com/USMC/Recon/default2.html
It’s for the 2nd Recon Batallion, but it works the same way in the 1st (or so I’m told).
“Currently 2ND Force Recon and 2ND Recon BN are now united under a single unit called a Reconnaissance Battalion. Within this Recon BN there are three companies. A company is the new Marines still cycling through the various schools Recon Marines must attend. B company contains trained Recon Marines gathering intelligence out to the Forward Edge of the Battle Area. C company contains the highest trained Recon Marines, mostly former Force Marines, who gather the long range recon information. All other Recon units remain the same.”
So a battalion includes Recon Marines at various stages of Recon training, with C company being the most highly trained. Most of them (the ones who have already completed BRC) hold the 0321 MOS.
Many of the old Force Recon Marines are now attached to SOCOM, and are probably even more highly trained.
Jack
I have to disagree with most of the commentors here. Most of you obviously do not know any Marines, or if you do, they spared you some of the finer points of what it means to be Marine. This show is about as real as it gets, right down to the dialouge this author abhores. The mindset of a Marine is completely foreign to those who are not one, and with good reason, because those men and women are trained to be the nation’s elite infantry WARRIORS. The fighting, the cussing, and the racial “joking” is the Corps. The author might have had a bias; I don’t know I didn’t read the book. But the guys who did the TV show also did “The Wire”, probably the best television series of all-time.
I am a conservative, but sometimes you people are too reactionary. Did you ever stop and think that the show might be dead on accurate. Go talk to a Marine who served in “the push” and find out what they think. It is arrogance of the nth degree to pretend you know that this show is biased without having any experience with warfare or the Marine Corps. Semper Fi!! Get Some!!
Christian Toto has obviously never served in the military. First: a phobia is an irrational fear. They are not afraid of fags, they just don’t like them. Second: Racist? I hardly think so. The military is the most integrated segment of our society. Those guys are comfortable enough with each other to make bad jokes in front of each other. Remember, these guys depend on each other for their very lives. It would be very stupid to have half of your platoon or company hate your guts. You, as a reviewer need to put these things in perspective. If you’ve never walked the walk, you’ve no business critiquing it. The letters from school kids is a classic example. In front of other guys, men talk s..t, but you notice they all read the letters. Most of the antiwar sentiment was just sarcasm. Marines gripe and complain, that’s life. But I would want them to have my back anytime. Bottom line: You haven’t got a clue and should not write about things you do not and cannot possibly understand.
First off I’m going to clarify things. By no means am I a liberal. No offense to my fellow conservatives you’re being about as ignorant as the lefties. I just ETSd from the army. I was an 11BravoIP2B (infantry Airborne/Air Assault) and yes I have my CIB. The Dialogue and the way the grunts act is about as real as can be. Before I left ft. campbell my father came up to help me move (infantry company commander in Vietnam) and after spending 5 days with my friends he told me, “James I see nothing has changed. All you enlisted grunts are still a bunch of tattooed and drunk wild men just like 40 years ago. It’s like hanging out with a bunch of Vikings or Barbarians.” So for everybody who thinks that we’re clean cut, moral, and straight is absolutley wrong. When I was in Iraq I became jaded and grew to dislike the Bush the administration and the generals in charge. I joined the army to be a paratrooper and shoot people in the face and not be part of a police action with a tight ROE.
The whole stereotype that’s complained about with officers and senior enlisted NCOs being borderline incompetent is absolutley true for the most part. I couldn’t tell you how many times Sergeant Majors would lose there minds over boots being bloused around ankles and sideburns even though guys like me just got off an 8 hour combat patrol and high ranking officers more focused on their own asses then their own men (PLs are good for the most part). Give it a rest with the “oh my god the liberals are making another movie trashing the military.” The infantry for thousands of years have been a bunch of beer drinking, womanizing, wild men because guess what that’s the way we deal with things for the most part when all you do is train and go to war. So far it shows the truth about us 11 series and 03 series infantryman. I applaud them for it.
If you’ve never walked the walk, you’ve no business critiquing it.
Since we are discussing a television show and not a military operation, we have every right to critique it. If it is authentic, that’s all fine and good, but if authenticity guaranteed quality, YouTube would be the most quality filmmaking out there.
Good writing, skillful characterization and a comprehensive plot will convince the un-initiated that this portrayal is not just genuine, but worthy of our time and attention.
There is no doubt that the actions of US forces are worthy of our attention. But if viewers have doubts about the quality of one particular HBO-produced work, then the writers and producers may not be doing such a great job.
Since this is a free country (and many thanks to our armed forces for keeping it that way) we can criticize whatever we please.
As a Marine veteran I got to tell you he hit it on the head with the dialogue Marines complain about everything under the sun including the sun the difference between us and the other services is we don’t complain to outsiders and we dam sure don’t complain to TV reporters As far as all the racist stuff It’s Hollywood they got to wright nasty stuff about GI’s or they wont get invited to the right parties and also to prove some warped PC superiority. People from the entertainment business fly from point A to point B in privet jets to tell everybody else to conserve gas they are clueless as to why a young Marine would risk everything for other’s it’s what we do and by the way that little girl was hot…. Semper Fi
I must say, as a former Marine (87-95), that I found the dialogue (apart from the anti-black racism) to be exactly as I recall. I laughed out loud during most of the show as it brought back great memories of what sort of troglodytes we could truly be. Trust me, you wouldn’t want your defenders to act in any other way.
Read One Bullet Away, written by Lt. Fick; I liked it much more than Generation Kill.
I can’t think of anyone working in television that is less “Hollywood” than David Simon. His work (Homicide, The Wire) is routinely ignored by the powers that be. I’ve met the man. He seems to genuinely care about getting it right and paying respect to people.
Ed Burns worked 20 years as a homicide police in Baltimore. He’s a Vietnam Veteran. Spent some years teaching in an inner city school.
I’ve read the book and will be watching the entire series. My take on the book is that Wright might have gone in with a certain attitude, but came out with a different one.
If you are going to dismiss the work based on one hour of viewing, at least get your facts right, and then accept that you are a lesser person than Mr. Wright.
Before you judge this miniseries to harshly and turn it off before the end of the first episode please read the article/interview at:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/generation-kill-the-hbo-miniseries-an-interview-with-evan-wright-and-eric-kocher.htm
Armchair General is an excellent magazine published by people who know and/or have been in the military for those of us interested in the history of and current status of the military and warfare. Has anyone seen coverage of the metals given to members of our military forces? Armchair General is covering it and giving recognition to the heroes who deserve it. The interview with Evan Wright and Staff Sergeant Eric Kocher, a member of the First Recon who served as key military advisor on the television production, is very to the point and informative. The marines were not to sure about Evan Wright when he showed up. He stuck with them thru the hot days, cold nights and 17 firefights, he has earned their respect and it sounds as though they always had his. Read the interview and keep watching.
great show. Wish it was longer than a Mini-series.
I would like to make a comment about this movie although I haven’t seen it and I probably wont. The truth is most of the dialog in this movie is accurate. Grunts and shooters often use vulgar language and say things that they wouldn’t in polite company. However, I take offense with people airing these conversations to the public. It is a little like airing any other conversation that is private and does not translate well to those not in that situation. Warriors have always been crude and offensive but this is how they talk on the battle field. I don’t want people to think less of these guys because of it. I know that I would not be proud of all the things I have said to my friends while killing time waiting to go on patrol.
I will second everything the Marines and vets said. This was dead-on with how Marines interact. I was in the first Gulf War and nothing I’ve seen has been closer to my experiences.
“No one comes anywhere near supporting the invasion.”
That may be the stupidest thing I’ve ever read. Obviously Toto’s never been close to a battlefield. The only thought we gave to the political situation was hopes that the pansies in Washington would let us do the job – so we could get out of that shithole and go home.
I laughed hard at the Hitler mustache joke and Pussy infrastructure speech. It was an inside joke too, since the Marine getting chewed out kept a straight face – Boot Camp was 14 weeks of learning to remain expressionless in the face of utter hilarity. Damn I miss my Marines. Makes me want to re-enlist.
If you are going to dismiss the work based on one hour of viewing, at least get your facts right, and then accept that you are a lesser person than Mr. Wright.
Well that certainly puts us lesser mortals in our place.
My problem with the series so far has to do with basic, Fiction 101 rules of creating sympathetic characters. In the beginning, focus on one-on-one interactions between the strongest characters. Write dialogue that will allow the viewer to sympathize and identify with the characters, to put him/herself in their place.
The characters don’t have to be heroic all the time – they can be rude and crude, they can even be nasty – but you need the intro of intense focus and the basic human empathy to make them likable.
One of the best examples of this was the Royale with Cheese conversation in Quentin Tarantino’s “Pulp Fiction.” These guys are hitmen, crude and offensive is the least of their faults, but you get to know them and you’re given a chance to like them..
Now, if you want to alienate your audience, and if you want to create a great distance between them and the characters, you’d start the series like Generation Kill. Throw a bunch of harsh language and barely introduced characters into the viewer’s face. Sure, soldiers will identify with it, because it probably is authentic in a YouTube kind of way. But the average viewer is not enticed to put themselves in their place, or to empathize with them.
> The only “victory” we will have for 1 1/2 trillion pissed away is we
> helped AQ inflict a strategic defeat on itself in Iraq.
I about spewed my coffee out on that one.
I mean, that’s all we’re getting out of this, only a victory over Al Queda? Say it ain’t so!
Mary, I don’t know if you care but…
Showing up in a new Infantry unit is tough. It’s your job to quickly learn who is who – not just rank and job – but who you can trust with your life. Meanwhile they are all looking at you, the new guy, judging if they can trust you with their lives. That is partially the purpose of all that banter.
I know it’s not how a TV show should start but I felt like I was checking into 1st Recon watching the first episode.
Obviously, Captain America is absolutely to be avoided. Mr. Potato Head may an asshole, but he’s probably okay under fire as most of the other guys seemed at first brush. The young Lt. is probably okay – otherwise he would not have lied to cover for his men.
Those are the pieces of information an Infantryman stores away and never forgets. I can still name the officers and Marines to be avoided I served with.
Jarhead – The individual characters are fine, and they’re probably immediately understandable to someone who is familiar to the whole situation. And the actors are doing a great job.
I’m a web designer, and I liked the documentary “Helvetica”, which was named after a font, but I’m sure it would bore most people to tears.
The really good films (or TV) communicate to everyone.
Since Generation Kill is NOT fiction, I’d guess that’s why Simon/Burns/Wright are ignoring those Fiction 101 rules that Mary wants everybody to follow.
Is art aimed at “the average viewer”? God, I hope not. Look at the Emmy nominations if you want what that average viewer wants. Myself, I prefer to go a little deeper and to open my mind to different realities. I can’t think of anything further afield than Iraq and the Marines.
Is art aimed at “the average viewer”? God, I hope not.
Linda, compared to you, Marie Antoinette was a populist.
Generation Kill is not a documentary. It’s a ‘Drama’ (otherwise known as fiction) with roles played by actors, dialogue supplied by writers. Other examples of drama include (quoted from IMDb) The Godfather (1972); The Shawshank Redemption (1994), and Pulp Fiction (1994).
Films, even documentaries, are not presented to the viewer in a raw, unedited form. They’re edited, clips are rearranged, a narrative is provided. While most artists are averse to calling this ‘fiction’, this editing and framing process is not unedited real life. The editors, writers, directors and producers have a lot of control over what the viewer sees.
The editors, writers and directors have more control over what the viewer sees in a Drama, and anyone who knows anything about filmmaking can see how they’ve framed things. I’m criticizing the artists’ work, not the subject of the film.
Just another way for the media/hollywood to skew the minds of Americans before a general election, didn’t work in 04′ and it won’t work in 08′
McCain 08′!
DaveO, thanks for that link. Interesting article. Hadn’t known that Wright spent time in Afghanistan prior to being embedded in Irag.
I’ve watched and read everything that David Simon has produced/written. He’s one of the few people working in television today that consistently surprises and challenges me. For that alone, I’ll be forever grateful. To each, their own.
This show is dead on in my opinion. The crass language, racial jokes, and constant talk of sex and jerkin’ off. This is how it is. I have been to iraq twice. I don’t have a desk job either. I am in the Army. My MOS is 19D (Cav Scout). In 2003 we had ragged, lousy equipment. We showed contempt for our higher ups and always will. That’s the American way. It seemed that they were more worried about themselves and their careers than giving us all we needed to accomplish the mission. When you have scum that sits on their a$$es in the Green Zone eating off of fine china, never leaving the FOB to go on patrol and not sharing the same hardships making decisions about whether a soldier was right to fire his weapon, then what the hell are we doing? I think iraq is a filthy toiletbowl and all of it’s subhuman inhabitants are the scum of the earth. A waste of my time. They don’t deserve the U.S. efforts there.
Anyway I don’t think a lot of social conservatives can handle the dialog in this show. This does not bash the Marine Corps, or the military. I, like a lot of Jews consider myself fiscally and financially conservative/strong on defense, and socially liberal. I can’t wait to see the rest of the show. I will then make my final decision.
Ne Desit Virtus.(Let Valor Not Fail)RAKKASANS!
In part two, The Cradle of Civilization, Ed Burns’ and Eric Wright’s credibility started to erode. While the series remained visually stunning and the characters seemed like real Marines, the story started to stray from the truth.
Read my entire review at:
http://op-for.com/2008/07/generation_kill_the_cradle_od.html
This is the first time civilians get a glimpse or real war and ed burns and the author Wright are not pulling an Oliver Stone here. You try not bathing for a year and half except for baby wipes. If you are humping out there only you know how it is. It is a thankless job and each and every marine and all other military personnel should be thanked repeatedly. HOOORAH. whiskey lima brava (weak liberal bullshit) from all otehrs who haven’t been there.
OK, time for my two cents worth: In Feb. 1968 I dropped out of college and signed up for a four year hitch in the Marines, so I feel it gives me some insight into “Generation Kill.” A lot of it is extremely accurate, but not in every instance. Were we rude, lewd and crude? Yup, but that’s what you get when you throw a bunch of young, testosterone soaked dudes together (after enduring the world’s most intense bootcamp)and then hand them things that go “boom.”
But I still have a few problems with the series: was there racism in the Corps when I was in? Sure, and it included black, brown and white marines. But it wasn’t overt as the way it’s portrayed in the TV series. You could kid someone of another race/ethnicity once you got to know them and they’d give it right back to you. It provided a lot of laughs and helped to ease tensions. But anyone with serious racial problems (and a big mouth to go with it) would find themselves in a fight every 10 minutes. On top of that, they would eventually have found themselves facing charges.
I didn’t care for the depiction of the senior NCOs. Sure, there was the occasional “lifer” who was a jerk, but most were sharp and very concerned with the men beneath them. The Sgt. Major on the series is a joke who doesn’t know the first thing about leadership. When I was in the overall tactic was to try and avoid Sgt. Majors at all costs. I can honestly say I would have preferred to piss off a general rather than a Sgt. Major.
I never once ran into anyone like Trombley who wanted to kill everyone and everything he saw like it was some sort of a video game. I ran into every type of personality; loud, quiet, funny, dumb, smart, really smart, reliable and more than a few Shit Birds. I’ll continue to watch the series, but I’ll take it with a mid-sized grain of salt.
Well, from what I know this show was based on the experiences of the writer embedded with that unit. Whether some stuff was embellished I have little doubt…but I had come to a similar conclusion as to whether you are a douchebag or not after reading the first few lines of this article. I openly admit i did not read on.
Embellished or not, I’m sure much of it is based on what actually happened, how people actually talked, etc. If you think everyone in the several branches of our armed forces is talking up Bush inbetween picking daisies (or perhaps dud IEDs) for the Iraqi children you are, to put it mildly, a tool.
AND WHAT DOES A REAL MARINE THINK>>>>
quikstrike:
…I’m a former Marine, just finished watching the first episode. I’m also very politically conservative, and I’m sorry but I saw a pretty accurate portrayal of Marines in the field. Homophobic? Uhhhh, YEAH. Profane? YEAH. Racist banter? Sure happens. HBO focussed on how Marines relieved their sexual frustrations and their body functions? When you’re filthy and sharing close quarters in those conditions, uhhhh, masturbation is a running joke, it’s not hidden, and sex is a CONSTANT topic of conversation. In very graphic detail. And if you get a few beers into a grunt, some of the funniest anecdotes you’ll get out of him will involve trying to take a dump under fire. Or when he got caught with his pants down when the gas alert was sounded. The Marine saying the 4th grader was “hot”? Uhhhh these are Marines. Rude, crude, socially unacceptable in the best of circumstances. These guys have been in the desert for months, preparing to kill or be killed. They aren’t going to be politically correct. Much of the humor is black, and quite frankly, civilians won’t “get it”. Obviously many didn’t. “Anti-Invasion”? Cpl Person delivers quite the excellent verbal reply to the peacenik’s letter, and he sums up the attitudes of many Marines. What do you want from these guys, political commentary a la Rush Limbaugh? They’re out in the field doing what Marines do–they’ve been ordered to take out the trash. How many garbagemen spend hours debating the pros and cons of their jobs? There are a number of Marines on the set who were THERE, and in the interviews I’ve seen of them, they have no issue with the mini series. This is one former Marine who’s thoroughly enjoying a fairly realistic depiction of how the grunts do their biz.
This show isn’t some leftist propaganda, the old dusty right wingers just can’t fit this shows type of reality into their heads. This is the truth, this is an accurate dipiction, even if it isn’t pretty. I knew several of my friends who were in Iraq, and they said everything was mishandled, and there was a lot of confusion, it got better the more time we spent there, but in the begining everything was a mess. I find it funny that the only people who are the most outspoken about this series is the right wingers, and I know why, because they are afraid that they made a mistake, and will defend their decisions till the end, much like the enemy does….interesting.
My generation, or “generation kill” is a product of an upbringing of non stop sex and violence from movies, television, the internet, and video games, not to mention the constant flow of bad news from 24 hour leftist media organizations as well as neo conservative think tanks. Although many of us are the product of good house holds with set rules, many people in my generation are products of parents who let their children watch and do whatever they want with no supervision. The result is a generation that is pre jaded and that has lost their innocence at an early age, and I believe that this is the main theme of this program. However, despite the actions and dialogue in the show by the soldiers depicted above, they are still depicted as more competent and battle savvy than their superior officers, who repeatedly make poor decisions like leaving behind a truck with 400 pounds of C4, a cache of M16′s and claymores, and food rations as well as calling danger close fire missions 200 meters from their soldiers. I suggest watching it yourself and drawing your own conclusions, but after watching the first few episodes with 2 iraq vet’s, they say its not that far from their personal experiences. As a conservative, the show doesn’t offend me or my views, it reaffirms my respect for the men and women over there…..and the “white man’s gotta rule the world quote” is obviously a joke….and I thought it was hilarious.
I spent six years in the Marine Corps from 1965 to 1971, in a recon battalion. Generation Kill reminded me that Marines will be Marines, in language and in behavior, no matter what generation and no matter what war.
There was plenty of racism in the Corps during the Vietnam War. I was stationed at Camp Pendleton in 1970 and the racism was always present and there was constant hostility. When we would walk to the outdoor theater at night, we would go in groups because of the robberies and assaults that were occurring on base.
As Marines then, we had no regard whatsoever either for the Johnson or the Nixon politicians who generally mucked everything up. We certainly did not believe that we were protecting democracy in Vietnam, although when I first joined in 1965 we were sure we were going to attack the commies. We were told in ITR by our troop trainers (just back from Nam) that the VC couldn’t shoot. But then the NVA joined into the conflict and things got really messy.
I have been very impressed with authenticity of Generation Kill. I have learned some things in reading the comments. I did not know that Force Recon units have been added to Recon Battalions. I was not in Force Recon and we recon guys were very impressed with Force Recon. The closest we came to having a Force Recon platoon in the company which I served in was a sniper platoon.
I was an 0311 MOS who served as the radio operator for my company commander (a captain). We had some great officers and we had some pretty bad ones. I do recall that when we weren’t snooping and pooping in four man teams and, instead, were out in battalion force, we were frequently lost—thanks to incompetency on the part of the officers above the captain pay grade.
Personally, I think Iraq has been a disaster in many ways for our country. I believe the Bush Administration (I voted for George W. Bush and I thought he was a very good governor of my state) has been a monumental failure.
“in the words of the great rap poet Ice-Cube….if the day does not involve an AK……it was good!”
You civilian pukes that sit at home and rub one out to FoxNews coverage of the war make me sick. You bask in the glory of my beloved Corps, but have no clue what you are talking about. This series is REAL, get used to it. As a Marine Sniper with 1MARDIV I can attest that this is the single most realistic portrayal of what happened in the invasion, and of life in the Corps in general.
For all of you that are blasting this as a “liberal, commie, pinko” movie, I encourage you to enlist and quit being the chickenhawks that you are.
I’m not surprised to see a review like this in a rag like the Moonie-run Washington Times. The hate-TRUTH crowd clings to fishpaper like this like flies on a turd.
To all my fellow Marines, Semper Fi… Eat the Apple…
Sgt. B,
Good post my good man. S*** is right on. As it goes on and on it gets better. While I’m not a Marine (19d – Army), My experiences in OIF 1 are similar. The social conservatives cannot handle the truth. Gen. Kill has been done right so far. RAKKASANS!
The posts on this thread are pretty amusing. In summary,
1) Early on, lots of posts from “chicken hawks” about how terribly anti-war this show must be, since it originated in “Hollywood”
2) One series of posts from some chick who is concerned about “Fiction 101″ rules (as if the creators of “The Wire” didn’t know what they about)
3) A deluge of posts by soldiers (many Marines) supporting the show and its veracity.
4) The “chicken hawks” seem to have disappeared. Maybe they’re all busy listening to Rush.
One more episode left. I think the miniseries is better than the usual crap on television. I don’t think it achieves the artistry that The Wire did….but hey, no complaints.
Thanks to somebody above, I did pick up and read Lt.Fick’s book. The subtitle of that is The Making of a Marine Officer and he did a very nice job of explaining the training and then his work in Afghanistan and Iraq. Now I’ve got to read Tom Rick’s book on the Corps. He’s the speaker that inspired Fick to enlist (and his book Fiasco is a great discussion of our occupation of Iraq).
Fick makes an excellent point somewhere in one of the later chapters. They’ve just experienced another firefight and they are all safe and talking about it. Each remembers something that no one else noticed. No one was wrong. Some people just paid attention to different things…Josh Person swore they crossed a bridge that no one else remembered crossing, for instance. When they double checked the map, there was a bridge on it. Evan Wright’s account and Lt. Fick’s account dovetail and diverge but that doesn’t necessarily mean someone is lying or promoting an “agenda.”
I’m still happy to have spent time on watching Generation Kill.
The primary military advisor for the miniseries was one of the recon marines depicted in the book/movie (Eric Kocher) and another actually played himself (Rudy Reyes). If you have a problem with what was said and the events that occurred, I suggest taking it up with them.
First off I’m a Marine in 1st battalion 1st marine regiment 1st marine division…. This mini series is the most realistic show I have ever seen about marines. I’m a grunt I experince some of the things this show talks about everyday! It’s how shit works it suck but that’s the Marine Corps. And as for the racism and all the other shit that offends people that’s how we all are! 03′s have to be that way to survive, never show anyone your weak or you will pay for it. Racism is used as one of our many tools to fuck with each other. In the end we are all brothers and would do anything for each other……. Civilans don’t understand and never will!
I’m a former Marine (’80-’88, 7312 MOS). I read the book and watched every episode of the series at least twice, and loved them both. If there has ever been a more honest depiction of the Jarhead on the ground, I haven’t seen or heard of it. I realize that some people may take exception to the negative portrayal of some of the officers and SNCOs, but I believe it was balanced. For every Capt America, Encino Man, and Gunny Griego there was also Lt Fick,Capt Patterson, and Gunny Wynn. The coarse language was right on the money. It amazes me that some people are offended by cussing, but make no comment about the violence that is required to fight a war. Listen to the dialogue over the closing credits of the final episode. I’m pretty sure those are real Marines talking. The language and sentiment is as real as it gets. And I agree with every word.
My Son is an 0311 in the Marine Corps and was in in Iraq in just as the “surge” began out west in Ramadi. I watched the entire mini-series and then asked him what he thought. He told me that all his fellow Marines loved the series because it was the most accurate depiction to date of life as a Marine in Iraq. I raise my hat to HBO for creating something that shows the average U.S. citizen who gets their knowledge of the war from ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, and FOX, exactly what war is all about. It sucks, you bitch about everything and you knock on everyone else to the nth degree. But when it comes down to it, you would give your life to save that of the Marine next to you. Its something only Marines will ever know. Watch it, live it, learn about it, and enjoy it. I did.
I just finished this serious and found it fascinating! HBO continually get it done specifically David Simon and Ed Burns. Great follow up project to the Wire the best television serious of all time.
Ironic that the greatest generation moniker is debated and dissolved by a detached from reality, head in the sand, liberal writer. As if you have any authority to make such an analysis. You are only a spectator in this era Mr. Toto, relegated to assumptions and baseless facts as told to you. These Marines’ placement in your cognitive caste system is as relevant to what they do as your existence on planet earth as a difference maker. Say what you want about their mannerisms; if they chose not to deploy, we would have had testosterone deficient individuals such as yourself, unable to bear the conditions and realities of war forced into service. We all know how that will turn out. Stick to critiquing production quality and do not venture outside your knowledge base. Semper Fidelis !
Terry Gain: upside down leftists? lmfao at you racist republicans. killing innocent is murder. voting and approving genocide is a sin in gods eyes right wing terry. have fun on earth because you racists republican “rightwingers” are welcome. saddam hated osama. but usa sent 130,000 to irag and 15 thousand to afghan were osama IS. Bush and you right wingers MURDERED INNOCENT MARINES AND IRAQIS. YOU SHOULD BE ROUNDED UP AND TERMINATED. WHY NOT. GODS GONNA DO IT ANYWAY
I’m a marine. I picked up Sergeant, but got out when my mother became ill. I’m going back in as an officer soon. I don’t think some of you can grasp the concept here… That series was right on the money, if you don’t know that, then you haven’t been to Iraq. Mistakes were made, but as Americans we have an obligation to fix them. We need to kill bad guys, not women and children, when push comes to shove and ROEs are changed to protect our troops engaged in combat, so be it. But no Marine should shoot a target unless they feel they are protecting themselves or thier Marines, in war people die, deal with it. But I won’t sit around and entertain the idea that my brothers who sacrificed their lives to liberate the Iraqis have died in vein. We are winning the war, & when our leaders decide to pull us back, that doesn’t mean that the war on terror is over. We still have a lot of bad guys to put in the ground. Criticize it all you want, but look into if you’re going to critcize this film, arguing that things aren’t like this is a stage of denial and ignorance. And don’t be labeling Marines as racists, while I was in the majority of the time if someone was telling a joke about a minority, the Marine telling the joke would be a member of the minority. Marines don’t care about race, we are all green. Marines tell those jokes and laugh, not at the punch lines, but at the ignorant bastards that actually believe the crap and practice thier whisky-tango backwoods bullsh!t. My corps is just fine, we are the most efficient killers on the planet, if it’s not broke don’t stick your ultra liberal or conservative noses into our business.
Those who find this show to be a negative depiction of the Marines, or a political commentary on the war, are simply looking for a way to be insulted. How about you enjoy the show for what it is: the best depiction yet of our modern armed forces.
Like every other veteran, I found the show very realistic. It was shown to Marines at Camp Pendleton, and they were ok with it. Those who have never served, be they conservatives or liberals, have no clue.
I agree with some other comments by current and past soldiers. The attitude and demeanor depicted in the show is very realistic. It is the things that we talk about when out in the field, it’s the jokes and attitude we show during demanding times. It’s a different culture that only military people will probably understand. It’s over the top and seems to represent soldiers negatively but it’s all real and it doesn’t not mean soldiers are a bad society. It’s a brotherhood. I feel the show is very well represented although I am not “US Army”. Good entertainment and alot of inside laughs.
It may not necessarily represent an Anti-war bias…it just shows that war in general is a rough time for all troops. The hopeful bigger and longer good is in someone else’s hands.
In terms of dialogue, costumes, sets, design, writing and the detailed research that lends realism to the story, I think this show puts just about every other big budget war movie to shame. The show is so real that describing it as “documentary-like” is an understatement.
I haven’t been to Iraq but I’m thoughtful enough to do my research before bombarding people with idiotic remarks about a lack of authenticity or quality in a show that clearly represents the war more realistically than any other. It’s laughable to say “the camera lingers too long on the bodies” among other such criticisms. Yeah, perhaps instead of showing the bodies, they should replace them all with roses, and instead of marines swearing, the show could feature a bunch of leprechauns dancing around pots of gold. What, exactly, did people expect? Hell, you don’t even have to be a Marine to get that this is the sort of humor you find with a bunch of males in a room together. My brother and his friends come back from college and it’s all dead baby jokes and dipping balls in each other’s mouths. That’s not just marines, it’s human nature. I guess some people are living such sheltered lives that they think raunchiness doesn’t exist, or that it should be toned down in order to ease people into something. I didn’t have any problem picking up on which characters were interesting or getting a feel for their personalities, the show flows smoothly, and despite not understanding all the jargon, there is enough exposition to keep track of exactly what’s going on. The kind of people who critique this show for having a liberal bias are the kind who bend the reality of the current political climate to fit their own prejudices and to rationalize governmental failure because they just can’t man up and admit they made the wrong choices and supported the wrong people.
I loved this show and am looking forward to finishing the book as well as two other books written by Marines in this battalion. I have to agree that the problem people have is with the realism and that there is no identifiable “hero”. I found the mini-series totally engrossing and caught on to the military jargon and nicknames right away (I imagine if you aren’t really paying attention then ya you are going to have a hard time understanding).
And for the nay sayers, I actually have a greater respect for combat military now that I have seen with some realism exactly what they must endure and what mind set they would have to put them selves into to deal with the demands and reality of war. I am sure that plenty of you that say it is “negative” wouldn’t last a day without your happy meals and if you favourite TV show didn’t air at the right time, let alone having to sleep on the ground in a foreign country with bullets whizzing past your face.
My husband and I are both Marines, and we’ve read the book, watched the series and it’s exactly what it’s like to watch a bunch of Marines working and living together on deployment. We’re letting our kids watch the dvd’s so that they can see what their parents do. Why we are the way we are, and it’s quite humorous to us, but we know that only Marines are going to get it. Don’t know of any Marines that don’t like it. OOhrah!
Thanks, this was helpful. I have watched so far only the first three episodes on DVD. Initially I liked it, though when it hit the episode about the boy being hit by friendly fire, I got worried that the inherent “anti war” theme would surge forward (so to speak) and engulf any hope for balance. I’ll keep watching now.
Reading all these comments – most posted long before the series had ended, and the review after only a solitary episode – is rather amusing as most of the preconceived assumptions have been blown out of the water by the end of its run. The final few episodes show characters such as Trombley or Sgt.Maj Sixta, for example, for what they are:
A mixed up kid, who clearly has trouble with conflicting emotions, and a senior NCO that uses his OTT routine to snap his men back to attention and away from conversations that damage morale.
Patience is a virtue, shame the vast majority of posters here have little.
I sincerely hope that all of you who think that this series misrepresents the events that took place during the invasion of Iraq are drafted into the US Marine Corp with immediate effect. The only down side with this is that we would have to set up a segregated “tenderfoot” company to train all you incompetent and delusional hacks. The US armed forces are the greatest fighting force in the world, however service in the military is not the perfect happy la-la land that some of you seem to want to believe it is. It is a job, and like all other workplaces everything doesn’t always go to plan, there some are unsavory characters and your boss might not always be the smartest one of the bunch. The Marine Corp would without doubt do all of you armchair “know-it-alls” a lot of good! (Maybe your opinions would matter then…)
As for generation kill: it is the most accurate depiction of a war from the perspective of soldiers I have seen, although I must say that I can not judge in all certainty as I served in the Royal Norwegian Armed Forces and therefore do not have the same experiences. However the show focused mainly on the soldiers and their experiences without trying to correlate it to some grander theme or moral lesson. I was very pleased and surprised to see this as most war movies try create something larger than life, especially by adding emotional-laden musical scores. I can not imagine this reflecting the reality in any way, as no one lives with background music that chimes in the back of their head when something dramatic happens. Instead a lot of care was taken to remain true to the soldiers accounts and experiences. A ground breaking peace of work!
Some of you guys need to stop all the chest beating and read the book and watch the movie again. All of the actual marines portrayed in the movie/book agree with what happened, except for some of the senior officers/enlisted who were savaged for incompetence. Of course it’s anti-war, the soldiers on the front line will be the first to tell you of the horrors they witnessed. Did you expect them to come out all feeling great and not having horrible flashbacks
Jesus, get a mitt and catch a clue. If you don’t like what you saw then write your own fricking book. In the end the story told makes me have more respect for the frontline soldiers who were over there.
Mr. Wayenright is absolutely correct. In fact, if you stop your boycott and purchase the DVDs you’ll see a discussion between the author and the actual Recon Marines about the HBO portrayal. Each of those recon marines exemplifies an intelligent objectiveness greatly needed by some of the posters in the forum.
Further more, I think we owe it to ourselves as human beings to take a stance against war, even if a purely academic one until we figure out how to effectively remove the perceived need for it.
I think we all can respect the human being (veteran) who is willing to sacrifice himself to protect against a perceived threat to others; but to admire or lend credence to the nature of war, hate, violence is intolerable and insane.
I loved the mini-series. Anyone who is critiquing the series as anti-military, anti-marine or really anti-anything obviously has not served. Every unit on various levels possesses a camaraderie that is composed of, amongst other things, dedication beyond description contrasted with cynicism, sarcasm and yes, even a witty appreciation of the macabre. If you have never served, it is understandable that you do get it; it is a unique thing. But if you don’t get it, you obviously have not served and I recommend not showing off such ignorance.
Fans of Evan Wright’s Generation Kill will be happy to learn that he has a new book called Hella Nation. Kirkus Reviews calls the book “Vivid confirmation of the arrival of a major chronicler of those who live on or beyond the margins of the American mainstream.” Don’t miss Hella Nation, on shelves April 7th.
Ok about me I was a Marine infantryman in Lar for four years, and also deployed twice to Iraq. Aside from that I am also a conservative, and I am sorry to say christian but you are way off base with the reality of the Marine Corps. Generation Kill is most likely the most accurate depiction of the Marine Corps myself and the other 50 or so Marines I know that have watched it have seen. Guess what educated or not that is EXACTLY how marines in a grunt unit talk. I knew no racists in my unit and all of us mexicans, blacks, whites, freely made fun of each other and each others race. It eases the stress and tension. That was everyone in my platoon alone 12 out 29 guys had college degrees, and guess what? They all joked and made non PC jokes all the time. Made you should do your research next tim also the book is required reading by first recon battalions officers!!. I could go on and on but is most likely no use trying to explain to someone who could never understand. Sorry brother but you are out of touch with how the military operates.
Ok about me I was a Marine infantryman in Lar for four years, and also deployed twice to Iraq. Aside from that I am also a conservative, and I am sorry to say christian but you are way off base with the reality of the Marine Corps. Generation Kill is most likely the most accurate depiction of the Marine Corps myself and the other 50 or so Marines I know have seen. Guess what educated or not that is EXACTLY how marines in a grunt unit talk. I knew no racists in my unit and all of us mexicans, blacks, whites, freely made fun of each other and each others race. It eases the stress and tension. In my platoon alone 12 out 29 guys had college degrees, and guess what? They all joked and made non PC jokes all the time. Maybe you should do your research next time. Also the book is required reading by first recon, battalions officers!!. I could go on and on but is most likely no use trying to explain to someone who could never understand. Sorry brother but you are out of touch with how the military operates.
I want to hear from all those tough conservatives that told us how anti-american this series was. US jarheads have a sick twisted sense of humor and reading your posts about is the best laugh I’ve had for a while.
i recently seen all episodes and it totally changed my vision toward Marines.I’m from Iran and i was a huge fan of US. Marines but this series shows marines as the worst force,even there is no credit for their commanders who are supposeed to be the best.I’m very disappointed right now and the worst is that many talk about the non fiction speciality of this show and i cant believe marines who led the Iraq war did almost nothing but killing many innocent civilians out of battle zone…….
after reading more comments about how accurate this show is i’m really upset toward the professionalism of US marines.what are these marine commentators proud of? killing many civilians out of battle zone?being so rude ?thats how they reperesent United States to the world?……….
i served my military duty in IRGC and i see no chance for US marines to fight IRGC members if they are going to make such stupid mistakes.even stupids in irgc dont make such mistakes and times after times!US better reconsider its claim to have the best military in the world.very bad day for me:(i wish i havent seen this show.F////
Another thing. Marines are called marines. Not soldiers. Would you call a sailor a soldier? Call an airman a sailor?
Marines know when they join up that they are joining the most difficult arm of the armed forces. Boot camp is more difficult and so are the missions we accept. We earned the title of marine and don’t deserve to be called soldier. There are few few things more insulting to a marine than to be called a soldier.
Christian, I’ll return the favor. You are a civilian chickenhawk pussy who doesn’t have a clue.
Tehran: My sincere apologies for the comments by some posters that suggest that this show accurately reflects the U.S. Marine Corps, its values or its ethos. Those comments merely reflect the opinions of people who may have served but who really don’t understand what they were a part of. Unfortunately we let some scumbags into the Marine Corps. They usually don’t last very long in the organization because they are stupid, anti-authoritarian low lifes with virtually no potential after the Marine Corps other than pumping gas or joining a biker gang. They usually like to run their mouths after they serve a single enlistment boasting about how great they were and how terrible their leadership was.
I personally know of several individual officers with impressive credentials who attempted to convince the producer / directors of this show to alter the script to provide a more realistic portrayal of how Marines act in combat. They were told that the director wanted to stay true to the book, even though he was told by these distinguished combat vets that it was wildly innaccurate in places. Face it. This Rolling Stone hippie reporter spends his whole time in the back seat of a HMMWV, not knowing what the hell is going on other than the few times he gets out in the midst of a chaotic fire fight. Odds are he’s face down in a deafening roar of gunfire praying that he doesn’t get his a$$ blown up. Who can blame him. Then he’s subjected to a continuous loop of rumors and speculation he hears being spewed by some marginally better informed junior NCO or lieutenant who is hungry, tired, hot, dirty, pissed off and generally in a bad mood. That’s the life of a grunt. And those Marines in this recon unit love the guy because he validates them and seems to genuinely care, unlike their officers and SNCOs, and because he listens to the same hip hop tunes on his IPOD. It’s not surprising that combat bonded these men. It almost always happens that way. I’ll give him credit. He faced the danger and shared the hardships. He’s probably a pretty good guy, but he doesn’t know squat, like virtually all combat reporters.
Unfortunately there is a prevalent sentiment in this country that seems to think that it is cool to portray wanton disregard of life and contempt for officers and any form of authority as the prevailing sentiment in the U.S. military. Nothing could be further from the truth. If it were, you are indeed correct that the U.S. military would quickly collapse as a result. I think it’s pretty amazing that the U.S. Marine Corps has acquitted itself so greatly over the years with such totally screwed up leadership and a complete lack of discipline on the battlefield. Perhaps we should turn the entire country over to those 90 IQ, racist, womanizing, boozing, baby killer E-3s portrayed in this series. Well, they couldn’t do any worse than the crew that’s currently in charge.
The truth is this. Marines, especially grunts, are coarse in their language, cocky in their attitudes, often reckless in their behavior and relentless in their teasing and their attempts to “gross out” their comrades. The real combat vets among them are almost always pretty skeptical of what the leadership has in mind for them. That comes from experiencing the total chaos of ground combat and learning what real fear first hand and surviving to tell about it. Unlike most of the country’s sheltered and lazy elite, these lads had the stones to lay it all on the line and pick up a rifle. They aren’t polished or sophisticated, but they aren’t bums or criminals either. For the most part, they are good young men with strong values and love of country. Above all they will do anything within their power to protect their comrades from danger, then themselves, then accomplish the mission– normally in that order but not always. They usually have hearts of gold and will do anything they can to protect the helpless and the innocent, but not if it means it will get them or their buddies killed. They are brutally effective on the battlefield. 90 percent of the time they don’t know what the hell is going on other than what is 30 minutes away or 300 meters in front of them. That’s why they bitch all the time.
There is no organization in the U.S military quite like the Marine Corps. It starts with the way we make Marines. It is practically unthinkable for a Marine in combat to let a buddy down or to fail. That is why SF units love to work with Marines. It’s because once Marines get a hold of an enemy formation, they relentlessly blast it to bits, and they won’t quit until every enemy is dead, captured or run off in retreat. We prefer dead. And by the way, if you have friends or relatives in the IRGC, pray to God they never fight U.S. Marines.
Generation Kill is one of the most realistic portrayals of what it was like over in Iraq during the invasion. Any combat veteran that served with First Marines I guarantee will agree with me. It’s not about being left-wing or a communist, it’s a real-life, modern-day portrayal of what we went through over there. A lot of these comments listed above are made by people who never served or have never served in infantry units who have seen combat. Just because we fought over there does not mean we all agree with the bs of politics/policy that got us to that point.
Awesome things here. I am very happy to look your post. Thanks a lot and I’m having a look ahead to touch you. Will you please drop me a e-mail?
Well said Vet16. As a former Marine, I love it when chickenhawks try to describe the feelings and actions of service people. They seem to think it should be like a boy scout meeting or a young republican convention.
“Right away the Marines depicted are casually racist, homophobic and ignorant beyond reproach. They complain about the lack of supplies, decry their mission and mock letters of support from children back home. One Marine goes so far as to describe the little girl who wrote one of the letters as “hot.”
Well yeh ! That pretty well sums it up. So what, a bunch of young men trying to out tough and out gross each other is the result of a Comradery these non participants could never understand. There attempts to describe the mindset and politicize it are both sad and pathetic.
“Evan Wright, overcomes its initial bombardment of anti-soldier sentiment.”
Another example. The resident chicken-hawks have no idea what’s wrong with that sentence. Sad.
Oh and….”Evan Wright, overcomes its initial bombardment of anti-soldier sentiment.”…. You’re garden variety chickenhawk has no idea whats wrong with that sentence.
This show is absolute liberal propaganda trash. Its really comical how distorted and blatantly biased this garbage is. I can’t stop watching it, the same way it’s hard to look away from a bad car accident. This show is an insult to our brave men and women who fought the war in Iraq. It sickens me that HBO would put this trash on TV. It portrays our Marine Recons troops as the Bad News Bears, Gomer Pyles and is far from the truth.