From Progressive Unionism to Progress on Gun Rights?
Imagine this: You are a Republican state legislator in Wisconsin. You’ve already received multiple death threats, threats the police are taking very seriously. But they don’t have sufficient manpower to serve as bodyguards. They know where you live, and that might — might — reduce their response time. It’s 2 PM and two busloads of protestors pull up in front of your home, disgorging 150 angry, crude, and thuggish “protestors.” Most are wearing union colors and carrying identical, professionally painted signs. Others carry signs calling for your death. Your wife and small children are terrified. You call 911 and make sure your doors are locked. They’re swarming your home, trampling your lawn and greenery, and the first brick comes through a window just after you hang up. More follow. Kicks began to strike your back door, the door inside your fenced yard, out of sight of the street and media cameras. Suddenly, the door splinters and three burly men rush in. They are not carrying signs and they are not smiling. What do you do?
Have you ever heard of Castle Rock v. Gonzales? It’s a Supreme Court case that, like so many Supreme Court decisions, directly affects the lives of every American, yet like so many Supreme Court decisions, few know anything about it.
Jessica Gonzales of Castle Rock, Colorado, obtained a permanent restraining order against her estranged husband, but on June 22, 1999, at about 5:15 PM, in violation of that order, he took his three daughters from their mother’s yard without her knowledge. Jessica called the Castle Rock Police at 7:30, 8:30, and 10:10 PM, and went to the police station in person at 12:40 AM on the 23rd. By early evening of the previous night, Jessica had received a call from her estranged husband who confirmed that he had the girls. She told the police, begged them, and despite her repeated pleas, the Castle Rock Police did nothing.
At about 3:20 AM, Gonzales attacked the Castle Rock police station, firing a handgun he purchased earlier. He was shot and killed by the police, who soon found his three daughters, dead, in his vehicle. Gonzales had murdered them earlier.
Jessica filed suit, and a federal district court dismissed her case. The Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit overturned part of the district court’s dismissal, allowing the case to continue on a procedural due process claim. The Supreme Court, in 2002, overturned the Tenth Circuit and upheld the district court’s dismissal of the case. Jessica could not sue the Castle Rock Police Department or its officers for failing to protect her daughters. This may sound cruel or absurd, but it is rational; it adheres to the Constitution, American values, and long-standing precedence; and it is quite necessary. If police officers could be sued for failing to protect a citizen, what city could afford a police force? Who would become a police officer knowing financial ruin awaited them at any minute for the acts of criminals beyond their knowledge and control?
There are a number of important lessons in this case. Restraining or protection orders have limited value. Such orders commonly allow the police to immediately arrest the suspect if he is within, say, 100’ of the victim (not normally, in and of itself, a crime). This was the case with Gonzales’ restraining order, but unless the police happen to be present when an order is violated, or can immediately find and arrest the suspect, this too is of limited value. Such orders should not be dismissed out of hand as useless, but as is usual with the criminal law, violators may be arrested only after they commit a crime, not before. This too, if we wish to live in a constitutional republic, is also quite necessary.
But the most important lesson is that while the police have a duty to suppress and investigate crime for the public in general, they cannot be held liable for failing to protect individual citizens. Police lore is full of true stories of victims who called 911, only to have their calls for help misplaced, disregarded, or simply ignored. In some cities, at some times, 911 calls are put on hold or never answered, so great is the emergency call volume. Sometimes, due to mistakes, negligence or apathy, victims are raped, maimed, even killed, yet the police have no duty to protect those individuals. The police know well a simple, yet true, aphorism: when seconds count, the police are only minutes away, if, that is, they actually know about the emergency.
“Nothing is so exhilarating as having a bullet just miss you.” – Churchill
(I may have pooched the quote, though. Sorry if I did.)
Yes, Leftist thugs threatening you and your family will focus you. Having a fellow legislator shout that you are “effing dead”, will also focus you, especially when you are a woman and he is a man. (I’d like to know what kind of penalty that carries in WI?)
The mask is off the savages of the Left. Decent people can now see the ravening beast.
“Nothing is so exhilarating as to be shot at without effect.” is my memory of the quote. I remember the being without part, as it seemed an important qualifier. For those who are curious, given Churchill’s persona as Britain’s cigar-smoking portly Prime Minister in World War 2, four decades earlier he was one of the last “military tourists” in the world. getting shot at numerous times and actually captured once. He climbed out the window of his prison using sheets tied together as a rope, and escaped. Yes, he knew what it was like to be shot at, and no, I don’t think he was ever hit.
Isn’t it ironic that there are so many documented instances of threats of violence and mob incivility by the leftists in Wisconsin after not one documented case could be produced of such actions by the Tea Party, despite a plethora of false accusations?
As a matter of fact, it has been documented time and again that Tea Party folks actually leave areas where they hold rallies spotless, with no property damage. The same certainly can not be said for the union thugs and their supporters in Madison.
It has become clear that the left falsely project their own shortcomings on their opposition, and have no respect for public areas as regards trashing public property.
It should be clear to all Americans who the civil protesters who protest with respect for public property are, and who trashes public property and threatens violence. Which side do you find more acceptable?
AS I live in Ohio and I have a CCW license with 8 years of experience in the Marines, I don’t call 911.
Aw c’mon, Bill. Someone has to haul out the garbage!
But I agree. The door splinters, three men barge in, three men assume room temperature.
Then you don’t understand the legal system. Bravado may get you a prison sentence, where prudence would see you walk free.
A prudent person calls 911 – period.
That doesn’t mean he cowers helplessly while waiting to be either slaughtered or rescued.
It DOES mean he doesn’t brag about, or even CONSIDER, NOT calling 911.
BTW, if you think 8 years in the Marines gave you enough training, you are dangerously mistaken.
No sir you are mistaken and calling 911 is not an obligation if a stranger is breaking into my home or residence. In my state we have the “Castle Doctrine” and use of deadly force is allowed and also the perpetrator or his family can not sue for use of deadly force, of any means, baseball bat, handgun, shotgun, rifle or iron skillet!
How often does such a thing happen you might ask and the answer is not that often but if you posses the means whatever that might be then you neutralize the offender with no worry as to whether the cops can come and save you, in the case of self defense you call 911 after you have stabilized the situation anything else is stupidity.
There is a huge difference between a “legal obligation” and a prudent course of action. Castle doctrine or not, every shooting will be scrutinized very carefully. The desired outcome is:
1. You and your family SAFE.
2. A stopped intruder, preferably one who does not escape.
3. A quick investigation.
4. No charges filed.
The best way to make sure that 3 and 4 don’t happen is to play Macho Man.
Even if you are acquitted by a jury, even being charged will cost you many thousands of dollars. If that’s ALL it costs you, consider yourself lucky.
I suggest you get some decent training before you get yourself in trouble. I don’t care how well you can shoot – you need some education in the legal realities of defensive shooting.
There is no “Castle Doctrine” law that can protect you against stupidity.
“…there is no Castle Doctrine that can protect you against stupidity…”
Yes, you demonstrate that quite competently.
I’m sure it is 1000% more than the average smuck on the street who has never fired a weapon of any kind. Like myself. I am fortunate to live in Texas, where owning a gun is as common as owning a pet.
One thing my son points out is that the Second Amendment does not specify the arms citizens may own, just that they have a right to them. He owns a sword.
No, Mark, a prudent person does not call 911. A prudent person shoots, shovels, and shuts up.
And thus changes a perfectly legal action into at least two felonies: murder and tampering with evidence.
And that is prudent… how?
That kind of advice is great for gun store commandos. I know it helps you feel really big and macho.
It doesn’t work very well in the real world.
Obviously, Mark v, you’ve never had to defend yourself with firearms, and what’s more, you don’t know what you’re talking about. You can’t rely on 911 when killers or might-be killers are coming at you, but you can rely on your 1911 or load of double aught. You deal with the problem at hand and then call the police to write their reports–the activity at which they most excell.
In my state, we have to call 911 in order to report a crime regardless of whether or not it is in progress or committed.
So I would call 911 after I or my wife stopped the intruders. Someone does have to come to clean up the garbage.
I disagree. In my community the largest visible police presence is Monday morning, followed by the rest of the weekday daytime hours. At about4-5pm there is a noticeable drop-off. There are far less police visible during the weekends and less visible at night. Like anyone else they want to work “regular hours” unless there is overtime. They have childcare responsibilities and they want to go to their kid’s ball games and take the wife (or husband) out to dinner.
You disagree…. with what?
I can’t see much connection between your comments and the article above, except for the mention of police.
The best thing I’ve seen for owning gun:
The police are minutes away. I own a gun for those times when seconds matter.
You are fortunate. Where I live they are hours away if they come at all. They basically told us to drop the garbage bag off at the main road and they would pick it up the next time they drove by.
Here in S. Carolina, we’re in the process of passing a “no permit needed” concealed carry law. In all reality, I strongly believe that the Second Amendment IS my gun permit and no further documentation is or should be necessary.
Here in Wyoming our Gov just signed a “no permit needed to conceal carry” law effective July 1.
Since we’ve always had an open carry law, I never bothered with a concealed carry permit (didn’t conceal carry either), because I didn’t want the government to know I owned a gun. Starting July 1, I’ll conceal carry on a regular basis.
FYI, Vermont’s always been that way, Alaska did that a while ago and Arizona pretty recently. It’s also under consideration in other states.
Amen!
“An armed society is a polite society.”
There can be no doubt that a criminal thug will have second thoughts about his actions if there is the STRONG possibility that his potential victim might fight back with lethal force.
My personal wish is to see legal open carry laws enacted in more states. There are presently 12 states with open carry laws. http://opencarry.org/opencarry.html This needs to become the “Law Of The Land” if we are ever to fully take back our liberty.
Isn’t the Constitution of the USA the Law of the Land ? Doesn’t it supersede all other laws?
What is Amendment II ? WHERE is the amendment(CHANGE)of that Amendment by due process prescribed in that Consitution. I’ve never seen OR HEARD of such amendment.
That being the situation, on one blog site a comment of the ultimate interpretation of the language AND MEANING of Second Amendment as a principal in Law (number 2) of THE BILL OF RIGHTS, underline RIGHTS.
The comment: THERE ARE NO LEGAL GUN LAWS against individual citizens in this country : the RIGHT to BEAR ARMS, unspecified.
Mr. McDaniel;
Thank you for this nicely thought out and well written article.
As with people I’ve known that have had their houses broken into at night when they were sleeping, their first response is to purchase a gun. They’re fortunate the thieves have left them able to take such action.
The most recent killings of several police officers across the country shows criminals getting more fatally violent. Catching criminals in the act is very effective. Protecting oneself from assault anywhere is one of our basic rights.
And protecting the basic right of protecting oneself should be straight forward, simple to understand, and not ‘legislated’ into a ‘foggy’ statute.
In a word, YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!
When I was a law student many years ago we discussed the “duty to retreat” doctrine. Many states’ laws insist you must retreat when faced with violence—even in your own home. This discussion usually occurs in law school’s first year criminal law class. First year law students are still quite idealistic and passionate, having not yet been worn down by the grind of studies. When our criminal law class discussed the duty to retreat, one student opined, “If a criminal is breaking down my front door, I’ll be damned if I am going to go out the back door. I would shoot to kill!” Another, more liberal, student passionately replied, “How could you do such a thing? We are talking about the value of a human life, here.” A third law student replied, “Who says such a person, a home invader, a felon in the commission of one or more violent felonies, a person intent on harming me and my family…..Who says such a person’s life is worth a damn? I say, ‘kill him’.”
An audible, collective gasp followed.
Proper responses to “How could you do such a thing? We are talking about the value of a human life, here.”:
I’m not doing anything. A guy breaking into my home is committing suicide.;
Value of a human life? Hmm, are you pro-abortion?;
Can I get your address, please? I will post a sign that I am armed, but you are not.
Let me think it is 2:30 in the mourning and I hear someone or something breaking down my door and I am in bed in my underwear and as I wake even further I see some guy rummaging through my stuff and I am supposed to retreat…to where outside my house in the cold. no I draw my weapon and start shooting if they do not comply with a demand to lay on the floor and await the police!
“An armed society is a polite society.”
I think this quote is both right and wrong at the same time.
It is true that the presence of weapons does not CAUSE violence. But at the same time, increasing the number of weapons does NOT mean that violence will go down, or up, or stay the same, or that a society will automatically be more polite.
Here in the US it is generally true that when lawful gun ownership goes up, crime decreases, although I’m speaking in general terms and have not analyzed all the data available. In Africa, this is OBVIOUSLY NOT TRUE, as tribal violence is terrible in many parts no matter what the level of weapons available. (here I’m not just speaking of armed enemies attacking defenseless villages. I’m talking about open tribal warfare that we see playing out in many places.)
It seems to me that the main indicator of if violence will increase or decrease overall is the general attitude toward the value and respect of human life. I would say that the less respect for life that a people have, the greater the probability for violence, regardless of firearm availability.
Of course, until everyone has total respect for the life of his fellow man, I think I’ll be keeping my 1911 with me.
Well said, sir!
Nice choice of firearm, too.
I suspect the parts of Africa you’re talking about are way too poor for enough people to own guns and have the countervailing force come into play that we believe we see elsewhere. For a notorious example see Rwanda, where as I recall most were killed with machetes. If enough had been effectively armed that situation would have taken a different path; even the extreme of Lebanon at its recent worst would have been a lot better.
“This government was made for a moral people. It is wholly unsuitable to any other.”
A moral man with a gun is not to be feared, unless you are one of society’s predators or the government. Oh. Redundancy.
Should gun rights be allowed for everyone in the world? No. There must first be the cultural morality to restrain man’s basest impulses. Guns, like money, are a magnifier of character. They are power. Decent, moral people have no problem handling such power. They are self-restrained. A culture based upon peaceful religions produce such people.
However, if the peacefulness is over-emphasized, the gun loses its power. Being too hesitant to pull the trigger is the same as not having the gun. (The same goes for political discourse. Being over-polite when the other guy is engaging in vile tactics is to unilaterally disarm.) When it is time to fight, it is well to fight, not talk.
The Bible says to “…turn the other cheek”. That means you have to stand up for yourself. It does NOT mean be a doormat. Nothing incites predatory nature so much as acting like prey.
Not to mention the pile of ammo that was “discovered” near the capitol. Did anyone hear about that fact from the Mastodon Media? It was mentioned here and there on conservative web sites and hardly touched anywhere else. Can anyone imagine that fact being ignored had ammo been discovered near the steps of the Capitol when the Tea Party was protesting ObamaCare? What a laugh.
Great article Mr. McDaniel. Hopefully people will wake up after witnessing the Wisconsin union thugs. The individual is on his/her own in taking care of self and family. Unfortunately our political culture has fostered a false sense of security that cops, government, or others will take care of and protect us. The biggest anti-gun crowds are 1) the criminal class and 2) the Democrats who have now prooved themselves to be one and the same in Wisconsin. Stop being a shivering victim and start using your 2nd amendment right to own and carry a gun. By the way I recall that Obama came out in support of the Union thugs. Just as Attny. Gen. Holder came out in support of the New Black Panther thugs. Wake up Wisconsin.
As we saw on 9/11, no military or police force can adequately protect us from thugs. However, once the people awaken to the fact that is they themselves who must rise up, then the thugs will be defeated. By the 4th plane, the people took care of the problem. This is why is it so sill to have homeland security and all of the airport non-sense etc. Give the people the power to protect themselves and they will take care of the problems. Now with airline security the way it is we are only creating helpless people.
This is from the same Democratic Party that brought you their militant arm the Ku Klux Klan. Their intent was to intimidate or kill Republicans and blacks in the south who were attempting to enforce voting rights after the civil war. Their new militant arm is apparently the SEIU. They are apparently working towards a similar legacy.
“would cause the wholesale slaughter of criminals”
Yes, I could see that would be a drawback. Oh, wait.
There are several other cases in addition to Gonzalez. One writeup on the subject that mentions several:
http://hematite.com/dragon/policeprot.html
Mr. McDaniel has made the clearest case for gun ownership that I have read. Self defense is an absolute, undeniable right, and the answer to the question of how best to exercise it is, “with the most certain and effective weapon at our disposal.” This is not a game. I could attack an assailant with a broomstick or a carving knife, but my enemy is sure to be better armed. Survival demands that my defense be equal or superior.
At the moment of truth, when you hear a window break at 3:00 a.m. and your wife says, “What’s that?”, you know you are about to confront a desperate criminal. He is going to rob you at gunpoint, and probably kill you before raping and murdering your wife to eliminate witnesses. You can’t count on the cops arriving in time. If you don’t have a 12-gauge shotgun or a .38 pistol handy, chances are you are going to die an agonizing, violent death.
Foreseeing this possibility, and accepting responsibility for protecting the loved ones who rely upon you, with your life if necessary, what do you do? You buy a deadly firearm; train yourself to use it; and prepare yourself psychologically to shoot first and ask questions later.
The people who oppose this rational, common-sense approach to honest, law-abiding citizens’ right of self defense are siding with the criminals. Like the midnight housebreakers they excuse, they too are public enemies. Fortunately, we know who they are. They call themselves “liberals,” and wave pre-printed signs braying, “Vote Democrat!”
No, sir! You do NOT “train yourself to use it”. You PAY someone who knows what they are doing to train you to use it.
There are far more factors involved than merely hitting a target.
Get armed, yes, but get competent training!
This has been my argument for YEARS to the idiots who want my wife and child sitting ducks in my house while I’m on my way home from work. In fact someone DID break into my home once while I was still inbound from work. I was able to get home, and search the place (15 minutes total) before a single officer arrived. BTW the police station is literally 1 block up the street from my old home!
So yeah, having the OPTION (we’re not forcing you gun haters to be armed) to be armed has given my wife less sleepless nights when I’m away.
I learned the value of a Colt .45 auto while in Viet-Nam for two years. I am 100% disabled from that experience but that same firearm is still with me and has protected my family and myself many times.
Where we live, police response time is about 30-45 minutes. I sincerely thank Mr. browning, Mr. Colt and the US Army for keeping me and my family out of the cemetary.
Has anyone noticed the Lame Scream Media’s coverage of the thuggery going on in WI? If anyone has please direct me to those two sentences.
Self defense is a right what ever the weapon period !!
The concept of concealed carry for all with a clean background check will include most but not all of the angered union workers and many of the outside agitators as well. I agree with the right for concealed carry for everyone cleared, even though the state I live in does not, however I do not believe it is an answer to protection from mob violence.
What you are responding to is a mounting confrontation between those who refuse to recognize the economic facts of being broke and in debt up to our teeth, and those such as the tea parties who wish to begin the painful fixing of our economy. We saw the riots in Greece, and other European countries who are trying to fix their problems with unsustainable public salaries and fringe benefits, and now it is has begun in Wisconsin and will carry forward to the “several” states. This requires a separate examination and analysis and I hope the author takes that on.
However for the problem in the home with a family to protect, living in a state with a Castle Doctrine is the best of all worlds, but the legal understanding that the police cannot be held liable for failing to protect individual citizens needs to be impressed on the entire citizenry. Those citizens who don’t like guns are free to be unprotected, but they do not have the right to keep other citizens from protecting themselves and their families.
So, while our state gave us a small part of the Castle Doctrine last year, we will have to keep working for the full right, and while we have almost no chance for a concealed carry we will keep working for that also. But for the escalating confrontational crowds in political situations, for which it seems we have just seen the beginning, I hope the author will provide us with his insight in what is likely to happen and how to live through it.
Here in Tennessee we also have the “Castle Doctrine” pus the state issues a carry permit with no criminal record to those that take an 8 hour course and apply to the Department of Safety at a Drivers License Station for $115.00.
I have a legal issue that is 25 years old and was retired and is being worked on be y an attorney as we speak so in about 3 months this will be cleared and even though I have already taken the required course and passed the requirements it is only good for 6 months so I have to take my class over again.
Hopefully in you state you will get some legislation that makes sense. Already here in this state they are working on legislation where those with a carry permit (concealed or open carry) can purchase a weapon without the instant background check by presenting their permit to an FFL dealer!
William, welcome home,,,
I too keep a 1911A1, 45 cal ACP under the pillow, this one was produced by the ROCK ISLAND ARMORY, not by COLT, but it lulls me to sleep. That’s because I know who and what to trust. Every thing else is just brain wash.
I was with SST-1 in the Mekong Delta in the early ’70′s, I learned to love that browning pistol. I now also have a Beretta M92 that holds a half a box of ammo in the mag, but it ain’t the same, nothing says, “The End”, like a .45 ACP.
Correct me if I’m wrong
Good choice. Now look into Cor-Bon ammo. Good stuff.
Some comments on it:
http://www.defense-training.com/quips/2006/10Apr06.html
And just for fun, you might enjoy this story:
http://www.defense-training.com/quips/09Feb11.html
Mark
You might enjoy this article on improved accuracy over the years:
http://www.americanrifleman.org/blogs/accuracy-and-the-hollowpoint/
jb,
thanks for the welcome reply. i was 1st. cav. 2nd bn 7th cav ’67 ’68 ’69.i also declined the m16 and had my armor supply me with a modified [full auto] m14.
it’s really sad that we must arm ourselves to protect and preserve the freedom we put our lives on the line for. we have witnessed firsthand what communism, progresivism, whatever you may label it does to people.
we faught there, now we’re fighting here.
Honesty, I really feel the 2 Amendment is all the “permit to carry” I need. All else is just liberal BS.
I am kinda with you there to a point but I do believe that you should at least have some formal training and be able to use a weapon without harming your self or others unless there is a valid threat. If you are proven to be insane though I would not want you to own a weapon!
I recently returned from a gun club presentation on handgun law in the Democrat People’s Republic of Maryland. Suffice it to say that in this state, if you are found with ammunition in a magazine while traveling, you can be cited for carrying a loaded weapon EVEN IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY GUNS WITH YOU.
The state of Maryland has most of its population in very urban areas with a significant crime rate. These people would like to legislate these criminals out of their lives. Note what I wrote. If a criminal was going to obey the law, would he or she be a criminal?
Sigh. I wonder if they’d allow me or my survivors to sue the police for not protecting me on the basis that the state does not adhere to the Castle Doctrine.
JB,
You are right, the fat bastard .45 is a royal flush as long as you hold the cards…
But one fine day, my right arm was broken by the big end of a pool cue in the middle of my draw….that Series 70 Commander was a little tough to control in my Left hand…
I practiced shooting Lefty quite a bit for many years prior “just in case” something like that ever happened. But there was always a disconcerting drop in proficiency I experienced shooting my 1911 left handed, unsupported, verses the “Perfected Mastery” of using my Primary hand, no matter how much I trained.
Strong sided, two hand grip is easy…anybody can Ace any course of fire even when using “alot of gun” such as a 1911 shooting that way.
But weak handed, unsupported, and no extra paws available to change mags or rack a slide is a whole ‘nother game. Only with my Glock 17 in 9mm can I personally say there is “almost zero” change in my proficiency when engaged in unusual “wounded shooter” drills and postures with my LEFT hand, verses my right
Shit happens, you’ve got to plan for the worst case scenario if you expect to draw…It took a long time for this “.45 all the way!” Ex- Marine to admit he’s better off protecting himself and others with a plastic wundernine than a steel frame 1911…..I owed it to my Family, my Partner and my Shooting Students to be the BEST SHOOTER I can be under ALL CIRCUMSTANCES, not just the ones I’m “best” at.
And for me, that means 9mm…there, I said it, and the ghost of Chesty Puller did not rise from the grave!
But I still call the 1911 my favorite!
Semper Fi!
That’s what backup guns are for, gunny!
Making the scenario of union thugs breaking into the GOP legislator’s home even more chilling is the very real possibility that a unionized police force simply won’t bother to show up at all. “Union solidarity” and all that. Ditto unionized firefighters if the thugs start throwing Molotov cocktails. Unionized bureaucrats are bad enough; unionized public safety personnel are extremely dangerous, and those unions should be immediately abolished.
The only way Wisconsin will get either a CCW or Castle Doctrine law is if there aren’t enough black legislators (plus liberal sympathizers) to obstruct it. Every state that has enacted those laws has done so with the black caucuses and the Nazis Appearing As Colored People (NAACP) squealing like the proverbial stuck pigs. They know exactly who will benefit from enhanced self-defense laws and who will not.
Anybody notice how Obama is promoting his anti-bully program for schools while his union buddy bullies are wrecking havoc on the capitol complex in Wisconsin?
“The one thing there’s no shortage of in this world is people, if some of them can’t behave themselves we’re better off without them.”
Matt Helm (series by Donald Hamilton)
Please, I’m in a public employee union. I’m a life member of the NRA and yeah, our entire shooting team here at the courthouse are also in a union. What is wrong with you folks? Calling us thugs? Go to Wall Street. There are Wackenhut guys in Jack Bauer type cars blocking all the major side streets. The guys pulling the strings live behind electric gates in Greenwich, Ct. This anti-union thing is going to pry away thousands and thousands if not millions of votes from the GOP in the next election. Mark my words.
I work with dozens of folks who hunt, chew tobacco, own ATVs and live in the woods and drive 90 miles to work each day, and guess what, we’re all union. When you watch Law and Order or any show about the courts or any show about a fire department, that’s all union stuff. The false equation of unionism with leftism or Marxism is simply that, false. Those guys who everyone has on their calendars, running back hoes on 9/12/01 onward are all union. Unions kept our harbors free of saboteurs during WWII. Just because a bunch of folks who are board and broke are jealous of us, and manage to get some backwater state like Wisconsin pass a radically anti-union piece of legislation is no reason to think we’re going to fall like dominoes. Before one critiques union corruption, one needs to look at every institution in America and ask if it too is corrupt.
I mean, my uncle who died at 99 after working until 94 lost an eye to a rivet fired at him by the anti-union thugs back in the 20s, and my other uncle whose nose looked like crap from being broken was a union organizer in the 20s. These men fought in WWII. My uncle was on the Isle of Tinian loading 24s and 29s to make sure the Japanese couldn’t kick our butts. But as far as you’re concerned, these men, and myself, and my wife and all my friends are a bunch of out of shape, screaming, granola eating thugs? Wake up. Not only are we in shape, we’re on average better educated than most of the clowns I hear spouting off in support of breaking unions.
So once again, at least in NYS, the guys getting the carry permits as well as giving them are in unions. We don’t talk about it, but our CCW laws are from 1899, and although you have to jump through hoops, you can indeed carry in a bar, a church; anywhere except a school. Hell, a NYS permit is better than most permits from “right to work” states that have all kinds of restrictions on them. Besides, if you live in a right to work state, you probably have no real property to protect. Who wants to burglarize a double wide?
I cannot believe that as someone who has not voted for a Democrat since 1992, I’m going to go in that booth, choke down the nausea and vote down the line for these little bastards in the next election. But other than Sara Palin, not a single GOP member has come out publicly in support of public unions. Do they really want to be served by poorly educated low bidders? I guess so. But we’re not thugs, or stupid, or uneducated, and
we are watching a party which many of us have voted loyally for since Richard Nixon in ’68 pee all over us.
Mark my words, you get a pro-gun Democrat running, for any office, and the 1,000 or so dollars a year I’ve been giving to GOP and Conservative candidates is going to that person.
Have a nice weekend. You get a weekend because of unions.
RICK, NYS
PS, as far as who carries what, try operating a 1911 or any auto in the pitch black of night. To be truly prepared, one needs a wheel gun.
If you consider yourself a patriot, you need to do some homework on the origins of unions.
Karl Marx loves you.
Wow. You’ve sure dunk deeply of the union kool-aid!
Yeah. That’s why every police force and military in the world still uses wheel guns, especially guys like the Seals, Green Berets, and Delta Force who typically operate at night.
Did someone mention, “poorly educated”??
RICKNYS:
“…But we’re not thugs, or stupid, or uneducated…”
Yeah, we saw that with the death-threatening, spit-flinging geniuses in Madison. And no, I have a weekend because I work for a living the other 5 days, not because Hoffa, Trumka, or anyone else decided I deserved one.
Face it, you’re an apologist for the union, and it’s not selling anymore.
Dear RICKNYS:
Regarding Union issues, I can speak only for myself. I assume that those who read where I publish are more than bright and informed enough not to require that I publish a disclaimer every time I speak about union issues, in the same what that I don’t write a disclaimer whenever I speak about Islamic terrorism. They know that in many states, one must join a union to work, and that not every union member–probably most–does not agree with the corruption and political leanings of their union bosses. Likewise, they know that not every Muslim is a terrorist.
That said, the unions in Wisconsin have probably set the union movement and message back 50 years with their thuggish, foolish behavior there. Unions derive their strength through the implicit promise that everyone involved with stand together to obtain certain goals. It is therefore a bit disingenuous for union members to cry foul when people criticize the unions in the pursuit of their goals.
The current situation is primarily financial. There just isn’t enough money anymore to pay the kinds of salaries and benefits unions have been receiving for so long. And more, people are waking up to the fact that public employees absolutely should not be unionized. The thuggish–yes, I mean just that–tactics that unions have taken for granted for decades are no longer going to do anything by convince people to legislate against them. The future of the union movement depends on unions being reasonable, throwing out the corrupt thugs that by and large run them, and proving their necessity through good faith and actual caring for their members rather than forcing those who have no desire to join to pay dues regardless. The pendulum is swinging back toward freedom and unless unions honestly capitalize on it, they’ll be, in large part, swept away. Their continuing behavior is only convincing the public to wield the broom.
Rick in NYS. I’m not sure what part of NY you live in, but as an ex resident of Westchester County, I can tell you that any permit issued there is very restricted, as to when the permittee can legally carry. Permits are mostly only issued for hunting, employment (where carrying a handgun is required), and target shooting. If you put personal protection on your application, it will be denied, unless there are police reports on file that you have been a victim of a violent crime, and are still in danger. So, full carry permits are just about impossible for the average citizen to obtain, unless you are a retired police officer, or have connections.
While it used to be that the counties further away from NYC, were amenable to issuing permits with no restrictions, the current trend of issuing only restricted permits is moving further and further north from NYC. When you get close to Albany, permit restrictions are again the norm.
My brother still lives in Westchester, and there has been no relaxing of restrictions on pistol permits since I left the state in “74.
And, yeah, if we’re going to have a grandpa fight? My grandfather wouldn’t let union men on his shop-floor. They were lazy, sandbagging….he’s Baptist, so right there he shuts up so he doesn’t say anything in front of his wife, the church organist. The union guys? Gave him death threats. Yeah, in the late forties. And their thuggish little kids? Threatened and harassed and beat up his little kid- a kid two years younger and smaller than they were, and wearing glasses, to boot. Not a fan. Not a fan. That little kid was my FATHER.
So, here’s a clue: most of the country lives in better houses than in New York City. Joke about double-wides all you want, they beat the crap out of a welfare hotel roach-fest. The owners are also employed. And, they get to have kids and grandkids- unlike you murdering bastards with your 41% abortion rate. Oh, and those doublewides? Gardens, and clotheslines. Green, and Green Energy. Less diabetes ( highest diabetes rates per capita- in New York)
get a grip. I don’t believe you voted Republican- you are in a union. you voted for the guy who feathered your paycheck, and are now trying to be in drag as a republican wannabe.
I am reminded of a lecture by my training officer regarding the responsibilities of a police officer.
The Supreme Court of the United States recognizes that a police department and police officer has two responsibilities; To apprehend and arrest law breakers, and gather evidence to aid in the prosecution of law breakers. That’s it.
That’s it. The Supreme Court has also ruled that police departments and police officers cannot be sued or prosecuted for failing to perform either task, nor can they be sued or prosecuted for failing to stop a crime in progress, prevent a crime from occurring or failing to respond to a report of a crime. Since police officers are regularly sued & prosecuted for things like false arrest, improper use of deadly force, etc., there is every encouragement for a police officer to do nothing.
Like I tell people, draw your own conclusions.
Firstly, elite forces are not civilians. If you want to practice every day, yeah, maybe an auto is better for you. But if you’re not an elite force, and cannot afford several hundred bucks a week for ammo, having a .38 that you can use in the dark is going to actually win. I’m talking about real world, civilian use of a firearm, not he Entebbe raid.
Don’t get me wrong, I love my 1911, and if I’m in a vehicle, maybe but for walking around, a feather light ally .38 can be out and on target faster than anything else.
As far as being a fake Republican, I’m often accused of being fake on this website. As though someone cannot be multifaceted. I know who I voted for and I know what signs I had in my front yard. The fact is, however, Eleanor Roosevelt carried a .38. Look it up. Truman also carried a .38, look that up. The NRA was founding in a place called Creedmore, Long Island, NY. NYS, home to Bill O’Reilly. Sound familiar.
As far as abortion, I think it’s murder, and I’m Jewish. And the Warren Court that made Roe v. Wade was Eisenhower appointees. Eisenhower, the Republican.
I am the only person I know whose been called a Commie and a Fascist at the same party. I could care less. And I’m sorry for anyone whose father was beaten up by a union thug. But that union thug, 70 years ago is not me. The endless stream of cliches like “drinking Kool Aid” and so forth is just a distraction.
The fact is, there are not enough jobs in this country. Period. It’s because of efficiency, outsourcing and the fact that we’re whores who will simply buy the cheapest stuff available, no matter where it’s made. I’m a whore too. I just bought some Chinese crap at the hardware store at lunch time. Lunch break, brought to you by the union movement, by the way.
I fail to see why bloggers at this site can never say, “Hey, you have a point.” It’s always this attack, attack stuff. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of unionism. But that plain, economic fact is, if you break unions, the wages of non-union people get driven down, too. It is us versus them. The them are the old money and the Bilderbergers and the Trilateralists, which include Newt Gingrich and Bill Clinton and George Soros. We, the people who weld stuff and guard stuff and move stuff and file stuff are all going to suffer if any of us lose any battle. Does anyone really think that their job will be made easier if unions are wrecked?
Your boss will take away whatever little protection you now have, like some type of contract or some type of work place safety.
I cannot stand the rich little bastards that spend a year after college working for some leftist cause, like “organizing” some small industry somewhere, and causing trouble. You know why? Because their daddies own factories like that, just not the ones they’re trying to unionize. But to confuse the messenger with the message is folly.
My garbage men in White Plains, NY make over $50,000 a year. They have a union. My garbage gets picked up twice a week, recycling once a week, and I can throw out a bed frame of the hood of a car. My taxes are $11,000 a year for a quarter acre plot. A family member is a public school teacher, in a union and makes a hair under 100K. And guess what, every one I know who has a union pension or a state or city pension is moving to your neck of the woods to retire. They’re coming! And when the come, they’re going to demand garbage collection, police protection, and so forth. All these coworkers of mine complaining about they taxes they pay that go right back into their pockets are retiring in right to work states so they don’t have to pay taxes! Goddamn funny.
You all enjoy each other. And by the way, New York City, home to the control freak jackass Bloomberg is not New York State. But if you want real education, do a family tree and I’ll bet you dollars to navy beans that someone in your past came from NYC. You usually only find out in obituaries. Barry Goldwater=Barry Goldwasser.
Have a nice weekend. It’s been real.
Not sure if someone else has mentioned it – in Texas, we not only have Conceal Carry and the Castle Doctrine – If you have a CC Permit, you are allowed to not only bypass the lengthy security lines in the Texas Capital, but to carry in the Texas Capital upon presentation of your permit to the Texas Department of Public Safety – not the Travis County Sheriff or the City of Austin Police Chief.
I have wanted a gun for a couple years- Just inherited an old .38 revolver, got some ammo, trying to figure out what to do next. Live very rural, have not found training yet. Last time I shot a gun was almost 50 years ago, with my Dad, as a child, so training definitely in order.
But the pistol is not registered, has traveled around the family since my father died 12 years ago. People advise me not to register it, but I hesitate to disobey the law… But they tell me registering it will only interfere with my ability to use it if and when needed. So I’m confused. Advice?
This article is an excellent reminder not to wait til AFTER I need the gun.
Obama and the Democrats have been abled to finish making America a nation of thugs. Every profession in America hides criminals and those willing to do anything for themselves. America was once known as a Nation of Laws but the only laws that apply today are the laws of survival. Wisconsin is a Prime example of America. Unions thugs ruling,teachers and doctors violating the law and their ethical standards. A President that encourages it on top of that. Every law abiding citizen in America had better hold on to your weapons and buy as much ammo as possible to protect yourself against a dictatorship that is arising.
When the great leader Shi Huang Di organized the northern areas of China in the third century BC one his accomplishments was the building of successful defenses to repel invasion. Eventually because of the costs to maintain them, those defences weakened and China became a frequent target of barbarian invasion until and at last Kublai Khan conquered them. The lessons to be learned are: Invasions are a part of life, and defences need to be maintained. Until man is completely civilized (during the reign of King Jesus), we will have uncivilized behaviour. Survival should be one of the most basic rights, but because of modern liberal thought, psychiatry, and psychology, the criminal has egalatarian rights. When innocent life is valued higher than criminal life justice will be correct. But as long as our leaders, the ACLU, and the media protect criminals, it should be the duty of every law abiding citizen to be armed (like in Switzerland).