From an Actual Moderate Muslim, a Memo to the MSM on Imam Rauf
As I write, nearly two thousand protesters are gathered outside the location of the future mosque — some having stood in the rain for hours — providing a clear indication that the campaign to stop this project is intensifying. The pollsters tell us that nearly 70 percent of all Americans oppose the structure, yet its sponsors say the edifice will somehow promote “interfaith dialogue” and “mutual understanding.” They must certainly realize at this stage in the process that the mosque will do no such thing, but will instead act as a permanent provocation to a huge segment of Americans who deem it completely inappropriate — if not outright sacrilege.
Let us remember that the project organizers themselves created this controversy by announcing that the groundbreaking would take place on the ten-year anniversary of the attack, and that the exact site was selected because of its proximity to Ground Zero. Given that fact, the current media meme that this is not a “Ground Zero mosque” is dishonest spin.
Even more dishonest — and dangerous to this country — is the outrageously biased work in Time, the New York Times, the Washington Post, and Newsweek, and on NPR, PBS, MSNBC and CNN that has consistently portrayed popular opposition to this mosque and several other mosques around the country as evidence of bigotry and so-called “Islamophobia.” This is mass libel by these media institutions.
The mainstream media has deliberately ignored the fact that there is legitimate basis for fear of mosques — as it is a demonstrable fact that mosques and Muslims have been disproportionately connected to terrorism in this country and around the world, a fact that the media won’t report. Moreover, in the examples of opposition to specific mosques chosen by the media as evidence of popular “bigotry,” the media has selectively ignored the openly available evidence showing unambiguously that these mosques or their officials are connected to or supportive of the radical Muslim Brotherhood (the parent of al-Qaeda), Hamas, and other radical Islamic fundamentalist organizations.
Why have these media institutions not investigated these ties? Why does the media investigate American charities that support settlements in the West Bank, but refuse to investigate the militant and terrorist ties to mosques and Islamic groups here at home?
The imam heading up this $100 million project, Faisal Abdul Rauf, enjoys the full support of the sympathizing left-leaning media, and together they have attempted to frame this fight as a First Amendment issue. They’ve worked to cast the opponents of the project — including the 9/11 families — as bigots bent on denying “peaceful Muslims” the “right” to build a facility on their own property. All of this is sheer nonsense, because as many commentators already noted this week, the right to build the mosque was never in question — only the appropriateness of putting it near Ground Zero. It is simply not possible, and indeed quite dishonest, to characterize 70 percent of the population as bigots and “Islamophobes,” despite what the media would have us believe.
As an American Muslim, I can say with confidence that most folks have no desire to trample our First Amendment rights, and have said so repeatedly. It is not even entirely clear to me that, were the Muslim developers of the mosque genuinely moderate, it would be so bitterly opposed. But then again, they probably would never have proposed such a thing in the first place.
But how can anyone believe that Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf and his followers are moderates when they very deliberately refuse to condemn Hamas, a sworn enemy of this country and a major center of terror in the world? When asked directly to repudiate the group, all he could say was: “I am not a politician.”
This is typical of the double-speak and evasive tactics employed by the prominent Muslim groups in America, an unmistakable red flag that something is wrong here.
He’s also called this country an “accessory” to the 9/11 attacks, and has written that America is shariah (Muslim law) compliant. Forget all the rubbish about “interfaith dialogue” and “mutual understanding.” The ongoing battle over this site has already belied that charade. Abdul Rauf and his Islamic supporters — most of whom are affiliated with Muslim Brotherhood front groups — will never give this project up because there is too much at stake for him. If he manages to get the thing built, he will be one of the most powerful personalities in the Muslim world — radical, moderate, or otherwise. More importantly, the mosque will come to symbolize in the radical Muslim world the triumph of Bin Laden’s attack, and provide a kind of heavenly validation for his approach to spreading radical ideology. For what other reason could the tenth anniversary have been chosen for the groundbreaking?.
It is not hard to see that this will only inspire more attacks. The logic will be: “If Allah gave us one miracle, maybe He’ll give us more.”
If some Americans are suspicious and fearful of Muslims, it’s not without good reason, and nothing their self-appointed leadership has done or said in the nine years following 9/11 has allayed those fears. Non-Muslim Americans have yet to see any clean line of demarcation between radical and moderate Muslims. Everywhere around the globe Muslims are the cause of so much bloodshed and turmoil, making life on this planet a living hell.
What are people to think when they see a group of World Cup fans blown up in Uganda by Somali Muslim psychopaths? Closer to home, a U.S. Army Major shoots his fellow soldiers! What are they to make of a Pakistani national given U.S. citizenship just last year attempting to set off a car bomb in Times Square? And the self-taught “American” sheikh, Anwar al-Awlaki, who from his cave somewhere in Yemen calls on Muslims to murder Americans, and they listen?
The underlying problem in this bitter controversy is that Muslims in America suffer a deserved trust deficit, wherein they are seen as a foreign and dangerous element. Perhaps if the $100 million being spent on this mosque were used to build, say, a hospital, this perception would begin to change.
Mika B and Joe S, take note. This outrageous proposal is creating anti-Islamic sentiment. Which is perfectly understandable. Provocations tend to do that. This is not the work of moderates.
Open Cartoon Day Test
How about we test the intentions of how this Community Centre Mosque will meet the principles of USA by asking them to host an Open Cartoon Day now.
We will quickly see how they meet the democratic freedom standards.
As a non-Muslim I sincerely appreciate your honorable, altruistic statement to distinguish yourself so outspokenly from Islamic Fundamentalism and raise your Voice in this Debate.
Let me assure You that most decent people, no matter what Ethnicity or Religion they come from, can understand how difficult it might be for a Muslim to speak out, as he might be either engrossed or attacked by the wrong headed and callous folks on all ends of the Political Spectrum heating up this debate: right-wing Extremists harbouring Anti-Muslim sentiments, left-wing Liberals with their Cultural-Relativistic “Anything goes”-attitude as well as Islamist Fundamentalists.
Radical Forces always let to Bloodshed and Suffering in Human History when the majority of reasonable, kindhearted people allowed them to, no matter what Roots, Ideology or Religion they came from.
Define “right wing Extremist.”
Give five examples of a RWE.
Given your definition of “right wing,” define “left wing.”
Describe specific behavior of each that merits your particular label of “extremist.”
For a basic definition, an extremist is one who responds to words with violence against an uninvolved third party.
Even if one posits violence against involved parties, there’s been no extremism, right wing or otherwise, directed at Muslims.
Interesting that Hans-Solo has a taxonomy of
1. “right-wing Extremists harbouring Anti-Muslim sentiments” and
2. “left-wing Liberals with their Cultural-Relativistic ‘Anything goes’-attitude,” and
3. “Islamist Fundamentalists.”
The only one’s who come out tagged with the “extremist” label are right wingers.
Some serious intellectual horsepower went into thinking that one through.
“But then again, they probably would never have proposed such a thing in the first place.”
Please allow me to thank you for your essay. It is very satisfying on a couple of fronts.
First it acknowledges the basic fact that the media and cognoscenti are doing humanity no favors by conflating the media-proclaimed “moderate du jour” with all Muslims. In fact they have had a HORRIBLE TRACK RECORD in identifying true moderates from shills. This business of lecturing the public, accompanied by names (“bigots”, “Islamaphobes”, “ignorant”, “extremist”) is not only untrue (given the percentages and obvious inter-religious peace within this country) but counter-productive. They have degraded their own credibility with the general public, who simply has NO CONFIDENCE anymore in their assertions that such-and-such is a Moderate Muslim.
Second, it is gratifying to hear a moderate point out the obvious: the intentions are suspect, and the continued pursuit indicates disingenuity at best.
Americans don’t want the GWOT. Nothing would make them happier than to have Islam find a way to “live and let live”. The sad fact is this doesn’t appear to be happening anywhere in the world, any country. Americans CRAVE some indication of reform from within Islam. They pray for some ability to move into a 21st century world—without violence, fascism and ethnic cleansing. So far there has been precious little evidence. Why is that? Which leads me to my next point.
Final point, the MSM and congnoscenti’s incessant and patronizing lecturing drowns out the comments such as yours. It is not at all clear how or even if Islam can manage a reformation, but constructive dialogue cannot even begin in the current environment due to the constant dissembling.
Mosques in America
“From my window, I can see the beautiful minaret of the Washington, D.C., mosque on Massachusetts Avenue. It is situated at the heart of the capital city’s diplomatic quarter, and it is where President Bush went immediately after 9/11 to make his gesture toward the “religion of peace.” A short while ago, the wife of a new ambassador told me that she had been taking her dog for a walk when a bearded man accosted her and brusquely warned her not to take the animal so close to the sacred precincts. Muslim cabdrivers in other American cities have already refused to take passengers with “unclean” canines.”
http://www.slate.com/id/2264770/?from=rss
This quote is by Christopher Hitchens.
He goes on to say, “Let us by all means make the ‘Ground Zero’ debate a test of tolerance. But this will be a one-way street unless it is to be a test of Muslim tolerance as well.” Bravo!
However, with the maroons of the Ruling Class in charge, such a test is highly unlikely. The good thing is that we ordinary folks can all see the hypocrisy as plain as day. I’m even angrier than I used to be. I’ll bet other people are too. When the obvious truth of a situation is denied over and over, there WILL be a reaction.
I hope the reaction is that more people will call the situation for what it really is—Yaron Brook of the Ayn Rand Institute has at PJTV: we are AT WAR with dissemblers and taqiyya-spouters like Imam Rauf. Say it and stop putting up with all their nonsense—actually, make that treason.
Trying to be “kinder and gentler” to our mortal enemy is a fool’s game: it’s going to get the West nothing but dhimmitude and death. Let’s hope we smarten up before it’s too late.
A brilliantly concise article. There is no “Islamophobia”. The media is now trying to redefine “phobia” to mean any concern. Recognize that the definition of phobia is “an unreasonable sort of fear that can cause avoidance and panic”. I see no panic. And there is clearly reason to have concern. Also recognize that Americans have not and would never block the construction of mosques around this great nation. I do not define my friends by their religion. I do not fear, nor do I avoid Muslims.
FaST Surgeon
It’s his association with Allah and the prophet Mohammad that gives pause, not his lack of condemnation for Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood. It is the words and the deeds of the “final” prophet that is the catalyst of this turmoil, a regression from ground zero, the year zero where we learned a new path was possible and now the demands to regress are planting their seed in this country, pretending a new “beginning” and duologue of “cooperation” and “understanding” is the goal. We already understand and that is why a community center with a mosque inside two blocks from September 11Th is being protested.
How is it possible to be a moderate Muslim? How is it possible to claim dominion over other faiths, over other “books” and be moderate. How is it possible to claim moderation when the founder calls for the death of the very ones he claimed to have chosen and now says are corrupt less than apes and pigs.
Really how is it possible to believe in the words and deeds of Mohammad and be a moderate?
Lynn, you took the words right out of my mouth. These are the questions that must be answered by all who identify themselves as “muslim” and “moderate”. From the Fatiha to the ninth sura – it simply cannot make sense. I applaud this gentleman’s compassion, but question whether it’s real based on his continued identity as a muslim.
I thought the same thing. Don’t get me wrong, if there were more like the author we could least have a respectable dialog, but the commenter is right, what is moderate Islam. It seems like its no Islam at all. What caused you, as an American, twenty-five years ago to think Islam was a good idea? Why can’t Muhommadeans keep their given names? You ever hear any Christians suddenly have to modify there names into Greek or Hebrew?
@ Rik:
Please define the term “Muhammedean” (or however you spelled it)?
If I was to guess, I’d have to say it was a person who worshiped Muhammad, but Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) never had anyone worshiping him!
I know, I know…..we need more Islamic cultural centers to enlighted the Islamically-ignorant. And that’s what the Muslims are trying to do in NYC!!
Excellent points. The Islamist prime minister of Turkey has pointedly made clear that there is no “moderate Islam” only “Islam.”
That’s a good question, Rik. Why would anyone convert to Islam unless it’s because they want his or her life to be controlled by a priest and his bizarre Instruction Manual or because he wants to be part of a community that is radically at odds with the governing philosophy and culture of the U.S. or any Western country?
If you’re a healthy person content to live as part of an existing Western country, what would draw you to the Koran? Certainly it can’t be its incoherence or call to kill or subjugate all non-Muslim areas of the world and their infidel inhabitants!
According to http://www.al-islam.org/laws/najisthings.html we kuffar [infidels] are right on the same level as urine, feces, semen, dead bodies, blood, dogs, pigs, alcoholic liquors, and the sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat [anybody’s guess]. This kind of tripe is published by Iraq’s shia Grand Ayatollah Ali al Sistani at http://www.al-islam.org/laws/najisthings.html#107.
It’s only a matter or time before the State Department gears up to import several million shia Muslims. Stat!
What could go wrong?
Interesting article and correct. But I have deeper question for you. Why do African Americans convert to Islam? You were brought to America as slaves, but the institution was questioned from the beginning and ultimately abolished. The Islamic world has practiced slavery for it’s entire existence, it goes on even today in Saudi Arabia, the Sudan, and elsewhere. There was an Egyptian couple in Colorado who were convicted of slavery a few years ago. Why do you adhere to a religion that tolerates slavery in the modern world?
Two points.
1. Some significant percentage of the blacks who were taken as slaves were practicing Muslims when they were captured. While most of these were “Christianized” during the course of slavery, it might be argued that their descendants are just returning to the religion of their ancestors.
2. The slavery of Islam also took slaves that weren’t black. Whites captured during the Crusades, for example, were also made slaves in some cases. It might be argued that Islamic slavery is not race-based the way we think of “black slavery”.
Additional points. Moslems have taken slaves in every conquest, and Moorish pirates took slaves from the coastal parts of the British Isles and Europe. No, slavery was not race based. The only people I know of that did not take slaves were the Eskimo.
It might be argued that Islamic slavery is not race-based the way we think of “black slavery”.
So what are you saying? That the degree to which slavery is bad depends on skin colour or that slavery based on a person’s faith is not as bad as that based on skin colour?
Slavery as practiced back in the 7th century is just as bad as that practiced today by the Muslims in Sudan, Northern Nigeria and other regions.
Here’s something to read
How a British jihadi saw the light
Might I suggest this topic for a future essay?
I too find it completely baffling given the fact that most Africans were sold into slavery by Muslims. And this is just not a historical problem: there are living persons ALIVE TODAY that have been interviewed that were slaves by Muslims (mostly Arabs in northern areas of Africa). Furthermore there are examples of successful slavery prosecutions of domestic servants within the USA–to my knowledge exclusively muslims.
Now THAT is an excellent question, Paul!
The double standard is alive and well re this issue and Islam–the Muslims sold their tribal enemies to the slave traders–and Christianity–via Judaism, the foundation of democracy, the Constitution, and the abolition of slavery. Hmmm . . . while Christianity is pummelled up and down the block, Islam is let off the hook.
Are we in the West nuts? (Rhetorical question.)
Well, it was a nice read. But, how do you call yourself Muslim, and not follow Mohammad? Was Mohammad a peaceful man, or did he murder, rape, and pillage his so called enemy?
There is no such thing as moderate Islam, just Islam. Islam is following Mohammad. You Sir, are an Apostate. What is suppose to happen to Apostates in Islam?
Sir, as smart as you seem, why have you not read a correct history on Mohammad, and Allah. Archeology at the Doctorate level shows Allah to be Hubal, and Sin, one of 360 gods at the Kaaba, or zero point. How can you follow a false god?
Check all Mosques in America for hate speech, weapons, and C-4. Quickly.
“It is not even entirely clear to me that, were the Muslim developers of the mosque genuinely moderate, it would be so bitterly opposed. But then again, they probably would never have proposed such a thing in the first place.”
Exactly.
No muslim that I know of was accosted after 9/11 (other than a hapless Sikh who was murdered, Sikhs of course are not muslims). Now that is tolerance. Reverse the situation in any muslim country, say you write some cartoons for instance about Mohammed and see what happens. Try to enter Mecca as a non-believer. Try to build a church, synagogue, temple, etc. in Saudi Arabia, see what happens. Question anything in the Koran, see what happens. The list is endless. I don’t think there is much of a question about the tolerance of Islam. It isn’t, and it doesn’t take a genius to see that.
If moderates prevail in Islam, as many say, then stand up and show us and stop the insanity Islam is creating in the world. If a pack of Ameicans were blowing up cities and mosques in Saudi Arabia (in Iraq mosques were used as fortresses by the insurgents, sheesh), Americans would be the first stand up to take them out.
We need to look into who is funding the mosque. That is the logical and simple answer.
Your favorite Bigot and Racist. Oh please spare me that babble.
Excellent
Some of you need to remember (or learn) that there are MANY different versions of Islam and not just one. There is no “true” Islam. Some are liberal. Some are moderate. Some are radical.
That being said, we want the peaceful and tolerant versions of Islam to prevail and we should support the Muslims that follow those versions. Please read Andy McCarthy’s take in this article
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/244349/which-islam-will-prevail-america-andrew-c-mccarthy
All Muslims are certainly not our enemy and the author above certainly seems to be on our side and I applaud him
Read post #15. I don’t trust anyone who would choose to belong to a totalitarian political system ( posing as a hopelessly intolerant religion). This so-called religion was founded by a pedophile warlord. Being uninformed about the origins, history and doctrines of this supremacist so-called religion does not make one trustworthy.
Understood, but there are millions of Muslims with their own personal construct of Islam that has nothing to do with the origins you refer to. Modern Muslims do not condone child marriage, slavery or dhimmitude any more than modern Christians believe in burning witches at the stake.
There are many hundreds of forms of Islam with varying degrees of similarity to its origins. This is a fact that can not be denied. I have found that many American Muslims simply ignore the tenets of their religion and drink alcohol, sing and dance and even participate in beauty contests. They can and will assimilate into our culture (The Muslim Miss USA is a small victory for us IMO). But if we broad brush them as all being irredeemably backward it will not happen.
I believe you are well intentioned but hopelessly naive. The moderate Muslim may ignore the irrational tenets of his religion as he enjoys the fruits of western civilization but he will not be of any help to us in the coming struggle – and he will return to his Islamic essence when push comes to shove. As you’ve just explained: his beliefs are utilitarian.
Most people are utilitarian when it comes to religion. But, the key is that they are attached to markers, and all the while they change A to B, they will hold that B is still A. Just look for example at the more liberal hijab here in the US amongst those Muslim women who even wear it. They are changing the definition of hijab while at the same time claiming that it is proper
By the very fact that American Muslims are a small minority, fractured along ethnicity, and of above average socioeconomic status, they will continue to reshape Islam to be more congenial to their lives and the realities they have to be face here in the West. Additionally, to maintain cognitive coherence they will claim that their interpretation of Islam is the “true Islam.” Myself, I don’t think there is a “true Islam,” but a gelded and bourgeoisified religion is fine by me and this is what we should be rooting for.
Again, who would have imagined a Muslim, Miss USA? Or Muslim rock bands? There are several actors in Hollywood that are Muslim. Muslim WOMEN are marrying non-Muslim men. We see Ali Velshi (who is muslim) on CNN and think nothing of it. They are assimilating into our culture.
It is my hope that in the future, this gelded American Islam and it adherents can push their co-religionists in the Muslim world to modernize along with them. And because America leads the world, I have confidence it will happen
Let’s ask us a question:
What kind of Muslim would wantto build a mosque near Ground Zero? What kind of Muslim would pick this particular place in the whole state of New York, in the whole United Sates? Ceratainly not those who felt ashamed by what Al Quaida did on 9/11. The only people wo would pick such a place are those who danced on the streets, those who felt proud and happy, those who with money, information or propganada support or would support Al Quaida.
Enough said
Greetings:
Back during my all-expense-paid tour of sunny Southeast Asia, the bad guys had a trick they used to use when the good guys showed up in their junglehood. They would send out a couple of their guys to serve as lures to try to draw us into their kill zone.
The problem isn’t the mosque or its location. The problem is the Islam. Muslims have been doing things like this for 13 centuries. They are well practiced at it. While trying to resist the mosque is, in a sense, admirable, it takes the focus off Islam and Mohammed and his 9-year-old trophy wife Aisha. The muslims are getting their jollies watching the idiot infidels banging their heads against their Islamic wall. They have put the infidel, once again, into a no-win situation. If the mosque is stopped, Americans have suspended their American values. If the mosque goes forward, the muslims have put their supremacist Islamic thumb in America’s eye. If the muslims walk away from the deal they are magnanimous benefactors to their fellow citizens.
My youth in the Bronx tells me to get in touch with the owner of the property across the street and propose putting one of those computer message boards on the outside of his building. The message board could be entitled “Islamic Thought of the Day” or some such. I would recommend for the opening day, “Mohammed married Aisha when she was six and consummated the marriage when she was nine.” Oh, yeah, and perhaps an artful “Have a Nice Day” across the bottom of the board would be appropriate.
It’s the Islam, stupid!!! It always has been and always will be. What they want most to protect is what we must attack. There is a reason why muslims are so easily aggravated by criticism of their “religion” or proselytization of its adherents by other religions. It’s their greatest vulnerability.
Excellent comment. I differ only on the point that if we stop the mosque we’ve somehow gone against our [most cherished] values. CAIR and the other unindicted coconspirators will cry buckets of fake tears of gratitude for the First Amendment while secretly laughing about how they’ll shut down all the Christian churches if they ever get to be a majority here. Muslims must work to impose shariah on infidels and if they don’t actively work for that they will passively support that. Bottom line.
Ergo, we’re going against our most cherished values if we uphold the First Amendment as something that protects the rights of people who have every intention of taking over here and destroying the essence of what makes this country good.
If we recognize that someone is spitting in our eye and take action against such an enemy, we’re not contravening any value of ours but upholding the greatest value any society ever has — to defend itself against extinction, subjection, or revolution. The debate about Islam is going to go nowhere as long as the country pussyfoots around the true nature of Islam — a hostile, foreign, subversive, irrational political doctrine draped in priest’s garments that suffocates everything decent in its path and builds nothing except prisons for the human mind and spirit. A variant of Lutheranism, Shakerism, Mormonism, Quakerism, Methodism, Hinduism, Sikhism, or Buddhism it ain’t.
If a group of adherents of any one of these sects were to build a church, temple, or meeting hall next to me no one in his right mind would fear that it would become a headquarters for subversion and feature sermons celebrating the destruction of the Jews or the subjugation of the Christians. If it’s to be a mosque next door, well, only a simpleton would conclude that something beneficial and admirable had just taken place in the neighborhood.
Islam is the mortal enemy of freedom of conscience and it would be politic for us to stop congratulating ourselves on how the First Amendment protects even the thoughts we hate. We need to get very serious about these particular people who act out thoughts of terror and subjugation. For that there is no First Amendment protection.
Richard & all:
“going against our [most cherished] values” is a myth. Has everyone forgotten that our very OWN government, led by democrats, hosed a church?
Branch Davidians anyone?
Abdur Rahman Muhammad, the author of this article, is not a moderate.
He is a radical black Muslim follower of Louis Farrakhan who is attacking Arab muslims for sectarian and racist reasons of his own. I think that it is a mistake for the anti-mosque activists to use this man’s opinions to smear Rauf.
Here is an url with a video called “By the Faith of Farrakahn”
http://vodpod.com/watch/3962609-by-the-faith-of-farrakhan-abdul-rahman-muhammad
If this guy is such a moderate, why is he praising an openly anti-semitic racist? If Rauf said half the stuff that Farrakan says about Jews we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. What qualifies Abdur Rahman Muhammad as a judge of character?
If that is not enough, according to the article “How do you say Steve Emerson in Arabic” posted at umarlee.com, Abdur Rahman Muhammad was leading radical pro-Iranian demonstrators in Washington D.C. as recently as the 1990s.
http://www.umarlee.com/tag/abdur-rahman-muhammad
“Justice is through the barrel of a gun…rivers of blood will flow through these streets one day” were the words I heard on Massachusetts Ave in Washington, DC being yelled by a man foaming at the mouth calling for global jihad against the West and Muslim regimes not ruled by shariah.
At the time (late 90′s) I did not know who this man was I only knew that he was part of the Pro-Iranian group that prays on the sidewalk in front of the Islamic Center of DC where they have prayed since they were ousted more than two-decades ago. In protest they pray and have jumma on the sidewalk and the crowd is mostly Shia ( and even if they are Sunni they are pro-Shia in their outlook) and are always extolling the virtues of jihadthe Palestinians and Iran and chastising the leaders of the Islamic Center, America the Saudi monarch, and anyone who is not a pro-Iranian pseudo-jihadi.
I would find out that the man giving this jihadi tirade was none other than Abdur-Rahman Muhammad the Cape Verdian-American from Rhode Island who came to DC in the 1980′s to study at Howard University and has since became somewhat of a known figure here locally (mostly for the drama he has caused). ”
(Please follow the link above for the rest of the article.)
Bilbo,
The author’s own bio at the bottom of the article says he USED to be a radical. The question then is whether the video you posted is from before or after his alleged change to a moderate. If the link you posted is from before his change, then there’s no contradiction. Then maybe he really is a moderate.
I don’t understand how someone who says all that he says in this article still wants to call himself a Muslim. But there’s no question there are some genuine activist moderate Muslims out there. Not many. Zudhi Jasser. Maybe Stephen Schwartz. A few others. I don’t understand what a real moderate sees in Islam, since the core documents of Islam seem so totalitarian and violent.
I have no doubt that most Muslims do not buy into the violently anti-infidel aspects of their religion. Most are content to live their lives in peaceful coexistence with non-Muslims. The biggest problem is that many doctrinaire Muslims camouflage themselves as moderate through the skillful use of taqiyya thus making difficult for a non-Muslim to distinguish between a Muslim who wishes them no harm and one who is plotting against them in accordance with the dictates of the Koran. To make matters worse, the mainstream media is absolutely clueless about the concept of taqiyya. That is why experts in taqiyya like Imam Raul, and especially his wife Daisy, are able to anesthetize the brains of all the media pundits they speak with.
I am sure that when the last Christian church in the West is turned into a mosque or parking garage 70% of the Westerners in the neighborhood will remark to themselves how strange it is to see this since the majority of Muslims are content to live their lives in peaceful coexistence with non-Muslims.
Nothing personal exdem. Honest. I think it is a fatal Western misconception about the nature of Islam and the long-term consequences of having made the fatal mistake of inviting Muslims into our midst. As one insightful thinker has observed, Islam is a “near-perfect closed system.” Islam is a way of life that hands power to the priests who have carte blanche from the absolutely unchallengeable Koran to kill or push aside anyone they deem is a heretic apostate. Forget moderate Muslims. They’re as rare as unicorns and as much use as a ballerina on Omaha Beach. Susan MacAllen sees the real problem very clearly: “[R]adical factions control the majority of mosques and the influential Islamic ‘rights’ and ‘charitable’ organizations in America. The voices of reform were long ago silenced, and the voices of moderation live in intimidation.” Ponder the death threats she writes about.
Nothing about Islam is admirable and even less can its adherents be considered trustworthy in the profession of benevolent aims.
Interfaith understanding? Every time a Muslim prays on his prayer rug he’s praying with all his strength that infidels never understand Islam and its history of conquest, pillage, rape, suffocation, slavery, and intellectual desolation.
Fox News reports that the second largest News Corp shareholder is a terrorist sponsor.
Republican Party considering returning the $1,000,000 donation from News Corp.
Well they should — wouldn’t want to be seen as palling around with terrorists or kissing up to Muslims — now would they?
http://tinyurl.com/2bgedfv
This might actually stop the mosque. I’m not sure Alwaleed actually like to see his face on the Daily Show. The funders of the mosque might soon realize that they are in over their heads.
And the journalists at Fox are not stupid. They are brave. They are targeting one of their owners. The fact that they don’t say his actual name is not the best choice, but understandable non the less, since they are human. Thanks to John Stewart for doing it for them. Even though his motivation is to mock Fox.
Smart move by Alwaleed to buy stock in News Corp. If he succeeds in silencing Fox News, there will be no opposition from the media what so ever. And the Saudis weird scheme of being international businessmen and funding Islamic fundamentalism with their money will be even more difficult to stop.
It is a good example of how difficult it is to stop evil men, when the evil men are so rich that they can buy anything they want.
From an actual moderate Muslim. An actual moderate Muslim who loves Malcolm X, who was considered a radical by most of the mainstream in his day, and still is by many. Hey I love Malcolm X, but if this douche didn’t agree with you all, you’d be calling him a socialist America-hater. Dozens and dozens of “actual” moderate Muslims—identified by their political beliefs that way, not by the fact that they, lol, agree with you—have defended the mosque. This rank stupidity that may even offend the intelligence of some of your subscribers. I know that sounds like an unlikely event. Still, there may be one or two smart enough to feel insulted by this kind of crap.
FaST Surgeon
“There is no Islamophobia.” — have you read the comments on this page, have you watched the video of the black guy being abused because people thought he was a Muslim, have you read the reports of all the anti Muslim demonstrations against mosque building?
This is exactly the kind of mindless, unethical, fear mongering that went on to gain support for invading Iraq. If Islam is a treat to America we are a very, very weak country and don’t deserve to exist. Personally I think the 2 million Muslims, 3 million Jews, 1 million Buddhists but in particular the 37 million Atheists, Agnostics and non-believers are a welcome foil to the 178 million Christians.
“Islamaphobia” would mean the irrational fear of Mohammedans. But it is not irrational to fear those who have attacked so many people in the name of Allah and his prophet Mohammed – in the U.S. Mohammed Atta and his followers attacked the World Trade Center and the Pentagon on 9/11, and just missed attacking the U.S. Capitol because the brave passengers of United 93 prevented it in Shanksville, Pa., Fort Hood, the attempt in Times Square, the would-be airplane bomber Xmas 2009, in London the bombing of the Underground, in Spain the bombing of a train.
The objection to building a mosque two blocks from Ground Zero is not even anti-Mohammedan. Mohammedans are free to practice their religion in the U.S., but not anywhere they please – there are 30 mosques in New York City alone. The effort to build a mosque so close to Ground Zero is to a deliberate attempt to assert Mohammedan victory.
If Islam is a treat to America we are a very, very weak country and don’t deserve to exist.
Ding Ding Ding! Islamic dogma at its purest. If you are too weak to resist us, you don’t deserve to live, but they never stop trying. As for tolerating Islam. Do you let even three percent of you body be infected with a cancer and say “oh, its a good foil for those healthy cells?” No. You immediately ask your doctor to cut it out. Its time to cut the aggressive cells out of the body politic.
The unethical fear mongering that lead to the invasion of Iraq.
Now that’s rich. Twelve years of snubbing their nose out our cease fire agreement. No my friend, Iraq was a resumption of hostilities. If George H W Bush had been such a globalist pansy we could taken care of Iraq in 1991 and avoided many of those problems, including, not having bases in Saudi Arabia, which was one of Osama’s stated reason for his need to strike at us.
While nobody ever suggested, despite main stream media attempts to portray otherwise, that Saddam Hessian was actively involved in 9/11, he did harbor and train radical Islamic terrorist cells in places like Salman Pac.
In the first place, I am not a follower of Farrakhan and futhermore the person in the above video is not me. I hate Farrakhan and what he stands for!
Secondly, yes, I was once radical, which is mentioned in the byline and is extremely well known.
And thirdly, the above link was an attack piece orchestrated by the convicted multiple felon and con man Mahdi Bray of MAS Freedom Foundation, and disseminated by one of his underlings at the time, Umar Lee. It was full of lies and distortions and I responded to the slander when it first appeared over two years ago.
http://singularvoice.wordpress.com/2008/04/22/my-response-to-imam-brays-slander-by-proxy/
This only illustrates the extent to which these criminals – MAS,CAIR, Brotherhood,etc.- will go to discredit those who are telling the truth.
Abdur-Rahman Muhammad: While I appreciate the views you express in your essay, I’m wondering to what extent you can speak as an American Muslim. I went to your website and your blogging is mostly about black issues and Nation of Islam issues.
I’m aware that becoming Muslim requires no more than a single honest recitation of the Shahada, so I’ll take your word that you are a Muslim, but without knowing more, I wouldn’t assume your viewpoint on the GZ Mosque has any weight among traditional Muslims, which is what I thought you were when I first read your piece.
Your form of Islam seems similar to Obama’s form of Christianity — mostly it seems to be a vehicle for black politics and black spirituality, which is fine as far as it goes, but should not be mistaken as orthodox.
Are you aware Muslims enslaved Africans, and sold them to westerners? Mohammad stated Africans were raisins. A true racist.
Why be a member of Islam? Did you not read my above post?
Well Mr. Abdur Rahman Muhammad, you have our attention. You, like Mr Jasser, have written an article that makes you out to look like a true moderate Muslim. But you mustn’t stop there. Tell us what it is about Islam (or Muhammed) you like… an what you don’t like? Tell us about Sharia and what it means to you? How would women be treated in the Muslim world you envision? That would be a good start. Is there a link you can point us to that would answer these, and other, questions? There are many of us infidels who are hungry to know if there really is a moderate Muslim who has the ability to coexist with the rest of us… in peace.
Would like to get an understanding of why you converted. The Muslims were slave-trading 500 years before the Europeans got into the act. Have you read about the Eastern slave trade? Brutal stuff and, sad to say, black kindoms were profitering, wharehousing and capturing fellow blacks(Dahomey). Passages throughout the Koran spell out the hows and wherefores of slave trading. Surely a worse record than Christianity. Moreover the English clergy in the early 19th century were the first to condemn slavery as an evil – not just the misfortunes of war and circumstance.
An article explaining?? How can you see Islam as other than male-centric dominion over women, kafirs and dogs. I may seem to be making snide remarks – but seriously interested. Blog your own article and tell us. Like to be disabused of my own ignorance.
‘Dozens and dozens of “actual” moderate Muslims—identified by their political beliefs that way, not by the fact that they, lol, agree with you—have defended the mosque.’
Really? Like who? Identify them. Identify just one dozen. And be specific about whether they agree not just with an Islamic outreach center, but it’s location near GZ. And be careful to do just a tad of research into whether they indeed hold moderate views or are just labeled that way by the media.
‘This rank stupidity that may even offend the intelligence of some of your subscribers.’
And we are supposed to accept this from someone making an unsubstantiated blanket statement of dozens and dozens etc. Accept an indictment of someone else’s, and the readers’ intelligences from someone who by any indication worth mentioning had no substantiated basis for saying so?
Every time you comment you reinforce the impression of both your inability to process the article and your inability to coherently refute any point made – your rank stupidity – in stark contrast to any representative PJM author or commenter.
Just passing through. I’m not averse to taking a fool seriously once in a while. So here goes. First, give me a definition of the word “moderate”. See, this is the part where you’ll inevitably provide a litany of conservative, anti-Islamic positions as the litmus test for “moderation”. If you want to define moderate as neither conservative, nor radical, then your list should be easy to find, as it includes about 80 to 90% of American Muslims, and prominent American Islamic voices in support of the mosque have been, as one would imagine, kind of out there [my God, you're an idiot]. But since people like you have been absurdly labeling Rauf a “radical”—a radical who has worked under Republican and Democratic administrations—then it’s unlikely you’ll accept any voices other than the ones that sheepishly agree with your bigotry. That’s what you do, you LSOS.
This article should give you an example of the more than dozens of “moderate” Muslims who support a Mosque, and/or any other Islamic organization at “Ground Zero”. They don’t believe what you do, so no doubt you’ll find them radical. [Have to mention how completely idiotic your response was, again.]
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/08/some_american_muslims_argue_th.html
Your post is a confused rant. You refuse to provide any clear definition of moderate Islam. The best you can come up with is mistaking some kind of undefined list with an objective definition. You then shift ground and attempt to use outlier examples of ostensibly moderate Muslims who themselves have consistently failed to provide any theologically approved set of precepts other than their myriad subjective wish-lists. Again, such an example is not an objective definition.
Finally, and quite predictably, you demean and automatically dismiss any attempt by the rest of the nation to analyze this existential ambiguity and devise a solution. As I stated elsewhere, this is what progressivises like you do best… refuse to make useful, consistent distinctions, and then violently squelch any attempt by others to do so in their stead.
Not only are you a progressive, but you are a prime example of a demopath. Suffice it to say that constructive dialogue with a progressive is impossible. You and I belong to different religions. Yours is a secular humanist nightmare, and is thoroughly evil. You are zealously imbued with the fervor of cultural Marxism, which insists that you support a totalitarian ideology called Islam against Christianity and traditional Conservatism. I and others like me have finally awakened to oppose you and ultimately defeat you. At the heart of your vile anger is that dawning realization.
Gouda Cheese,
‘First, give me a definition of the word “moderate”.’ No. You’re the one who made the claim, not me. You provide the definition of what YOU consider a moderate muslim.
‘See, this is the part where you’ll inevitably provide a litany of conservative, anti-Islamic positions as the litmus test for “moderation”.’
I will, will I?
‘If you want to define moderate as neither conservative, nor radical, ..’
I don’t. You do because you can’t grasp what the controversy is all about anyway, but I don’t. Not in this context anyway.
‘But since people like you have been absurdly labeling Rauf a “radical”’
Have I? I don’t consider him a radical. I consider him an insensitive a$$hole.
‘This article should give you an example of the more than dozens..’
Talk about rank stupidity. Did you even read the link you cited to prove out your dozens etc claim? I did. You’ve made this same mistake under every one of your personae on this site. Making a jacka$$ of yourself by citing information that flies in the face of your own argument.
You do provide for comic relief though.
Ghost: you are responding like a typical troll. . .when someone disagrees with you, you respond with insults and namecalling. That may work at HufPo or Cos, but it doesn’t impress folks here, and in fact works against you. Try civility, you might do better.
These two sentences create a problem to me, they highlight a deep contradiction.
If it is true that there is a worlwide war led by islam and directed at extending islam’s domination, I don’t see HOW there can be “any clean line of demarcation between radical and moderate muslims”.
And it is true that in every continent islam is on the attack.
Why should we see a “moderate” islam that does not exist anywhere in the world ?
The problem is very serious.
Because I know that it does not exist anything like a “moderate communist”, nor anything like a “moderate nazi”. There can certainly be shades of propaganda and tones, but the final goal of all totalitarianisms is universal dictatorship.
We don’t need “mildly” gentle and apparently moderate muslims.
We need the end of the worldwide war of islam against everybody else.
Is that possible ? Did the conquering push of islam ever stopped in history ? Yes, when the islamic countries where technologically and financially handicapped. And even then, islam kept creating problems in Africa.
Can a totalitarian ideology mutate into an enlightened philosophy ? I doubt about that.
When
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com
will have NO numbers to publish, we can talk.
Until that day, the West and all Freedom loving countries must keep the islamic totalitarians at bay.
with you on that.
there cannot be a moderate muslim because there is no moderate islam.
To Mr. Abdur-Rahman Muhammad: thank you for your thoughtful essay. You have zeroed in on the essential element of confusion of most non-progressive Americans when you state, “Non-Muslim Americans have yet to see any clean line of demarcation between radical and moderate Muslims.” The reasons behind that are what should deeply concern us all. In that regard, I will re-post from another PJM article…
Because progressives have completely prevented any useful dialogue about Islam, Western society is now in a position of being absolutely unable to make clear, rational distinctions about any differences (assuming they really exist) between radical Islam versus any other kind. This includes the continuing lack of useful, widely agreed-upon defintions, and more importantly, a complete lack of codified laws based on such definitions. At best, we simply have some type of vague acknowledgement that there are “moderate Muslims” out there somewhere, but no legally accepted means by which to prove it one way or the other.
Unfortunately, such moderates have also been remiss, whether out of fear of their own religious leaders (a telling indicator all by itself), a lack of intellectual curiosity, or worst case the unwillingness to acknowledge the underlying basic nature of their religion which they attempt to dismiss with their own subjective undefined version.
Conservatives are now in the absurd position of hoping that arguments based on “insensitivity”, or “reciprocity”, or being “uncaring” or “offensive” will carry the day. This is naive and ultimately feckless, since the only default legailty leads directly to the First Amendment which will trump you every time. We are thus left in the dark about the relationship of our Constitution to a real but amorphously defined enemy. This is what progressivises do best… refuse to make useful distinctions, and then violently squelch any attempt by others to do so in their stead.
“The Constitution is not a suicide pact.” However, the lack of any codified, logical, rational analysis is allowing us to blanket our enemies with Constitutional protections to which they were never originally entitled. Everywhere we see the rise and success of demopaths. It is they whom we have allowed to control the debate, control the laws, and ultimately undercut the foundations of our society. Unless we can clearly identify them and implement reliable laws against them, the Western ideals of free will and independence as gifts from God to all individuals will perish.
Charles,
I find the whole “moderate” Muslim question interesting.
To start, I believe the issue is deep seeded in the human psyche and is similar to all religions. I grew up a Catholic but disagreed with alot of dogma that I found non-rational or serving no purpose. I was (happily) active in CCD and youth group thru my Junior Year in High School. Eventually though I came to realize that my entire belief in religion was based on indoctrination as a child, much as I was indoctined to believe that Santa is real. Religion uses “faith” as a “get out of proof free card”. I personally approve of the masses believing in “something that is good” as many probably could not find their own moral compass without the fear of God. I am not trying to demean anyone, just stating that religion has been relied on to provide a moral compass (hence the repeated issues based on differing beliefs). Through Objectivism I officially became Atheist. To this day I still enjoy singing Christmas songs and even an occasional hymn.
Back to “moderate” muslims. I believe that there are people who are Muslim (by indoctrination at any age) but who disagree with some of the dogma associated with the Muslim faith. I am sure that are people who associate themselves as Muslim but who would not hesitate to honestly denounce 9/11 and terrorism. The cannot or do not face their contradictions.
Many people of all faiths (or lack there of, LOL) choose to evade facing their contradictions, checking their premises. Some would say it is lasiness, but I think that in many cases they do not feel a need look any deeper, they do not truly understand the significance of the contradictions.
What are your thoughts?
religion is a human defect.
humans as societal animals seek community. this condition is easily usurped by devious individuals to control the masses. they invoke”god” (an imaginary delusion) to make their followers keep in line.
islam brings out this base human condition and keeps people in a style more like any other animal, without thought.
that is why islam only brings misery and leaves feces and dead in it’s wake.
Excellent.
Forget all the rubbish about “interfaith dialogue” and “mutual understanding.”
I have (forgotten it) since Feisal Abdul Rauf has said (in Arabic)…
“I don’t believe in interfaith dialogue.”
(Speaking there far more honestly than the rambling, dissembling BS he utters in front of his American audiences, where he is constrained to conceal his true self.)
…Muslims in America suffer a deserved trust deficit…
True enough.
I appreciate your writing and your candor.
Abdur-Rahman Muhammad:
While most religious leaders will not hesitate to promote their religion by establishing houses of worship, it is important to distinguish the GZM from a house of worship. Even before the controversy had reached a climax, the GZM was represented as a semi-religious edifice, instead of purely religious one. It was to have a recreational purpose as well.
The question remains, then, why is it technically portrayed as a mosque? Couldn’t the Mosque description have been downplayed more effectively? Instead of addressing the conflict, it appears that the proponents of the project like the controversy. Worse, money does not appear to have been an issue for the project. The rather trivial treatment of funding stands in contrast with the current economy. It makes one wonder, if 10% of the population is unemployed and the government is broke, where is the money coming from?
Transparency could have answered many questions, but it was not forthcoming. The lack of concern convinced me that the individuals associated with this Mosque were seeking attention, not understanding…
“Perhaps if the $100 million being spent on this mosque were used to build, say, a hospital, this perception would begin to change.”
Or maybe if the mony was spent to build an interreligional building in Cairo, Damascus or Mekka, where all faiths can come together in mutual respect?
“The problem is very serious.
Because I know that it does not exist anything like a “moderate communist”, nor anything like a “moderate nazi”. There can certainly be shades of propaganda and tones, but the final goal of all totalitarianisms is universal dictatorship.”
Sherab Zangpo
Thank you for your insight. I look forward to your comments as they reflect what I am thinking and feeling but which you articulate in such as way as to truly validate them.
It takes guts to speak out on this issue, and I’m thankful that writers like Abdur-Rahman Muhammad are coming forward. There are a number of good points in his article about the deception that surrounds this project, and I look forward to hearing more of his thoughts as this story unfolds.
Park 51 organizers and supporters are acting pretty slippery – when it’s convenient to cry about Freedom of Religion, then the building is a mosque.
When they want to take religion out of the debate, then it’s a community center.
I’m not sure they get to have it both ways.
Pretending that there is a peaceful Islam will only foster further muddled thinking and disastrous policy. Fearing that we will alienate non observant Muslims by properly identifying Islam as violent is a recipe for disaster.
The half-measure of encouraging peaceful Muslims to take up a “moderate” form of Islam is not only an act of intellectual dishonesty, it is a sure way to foster future acts of jihad. Many of the Islamic terrorists of recent years have been formerly “moderate” Muslims who reawakened to an orthodox interpretation of their faith. The European “youths” responsible for the intermittent riots in France and elsewhere are largely the offspring of “moderate” Muslim immigrants who fled the repression of their native Islamic lands.
Islam needs to be rejected totally. We must stop getting our information about Islam from lying Muslims, leftists, and sadly those who call themselves conservative.
Read what evil Muhammad calls ALL his followers to do. Read the Islamic texts. STOP BEING LIED TO ABOUT ISLAM. Here is a great place to start, Islam 101 read it here is the link stop being fooled -
http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101.html
Some looming questions:
The Mayor (alas) has already granted his formal approval?
What is the status of any needed building permits?
Who is the presumed building contractor to be lined up?
Who will be handling all sorts of required insurance?
Who will be the source of the skilled/unskilled laborers needed for this project? Have they been lined up?
On the ultimately disgusting level, let us be ever mindful that Osama bin Laden made his fortune in the construction business, no? It’s a safe bet his cell phones are really vibrating 24/7.
This whole frickin’ cauldron just becomes more noxious as the hours pass……
Not only construction Charlie-his daddy made his money in the petrochemical biz. Perfect for a biological “dirty” bomb. Remember anything about 9/11/01? Two of those planes were hijacked from Logan airport in Boston. And who just happened to be living in Boston at the time-OBLS brother and his son, who was attending Harvard at the time. Has anyone bothered to find out where the hijackers might have been staying the night before the attacks?
Funny, in order to get reasonable voices within Islam, you have to go to a Pajamas media, A Dr Micheal Savage, or some other conservative-orientated news source? Yeywhat do I see on TV and the media. CAIR filth. The Muslim Brotherhood called “moderate”. The Moslem student assn, whos former president was the chief fund-raiser for Al queda, treated like they are “mainstream”. Islam is not the only problem in this equation. The far left america haters in Law, academia ,media and poltics are an even bigger one. Funny how the reasonable vocies within Islam(the few willing to stand up) tend to be less westernized, while the worse ones are educated in the western countries(communist/Wahabbi indoctrination?)
“Funny, in order to get reasonable voices within Islam, you have to go to a Pajamas media…”,
I wish I’d said that. May I add…”-voices about Islam”?
I’m new here, and more than a little concerned that there’s not more of this sensible commentary in places like the Washington Post. I won’t bring up the New York Times. It bothers me that with their claimed circulation figures plus the internet log-ins that their readers are mainly commuters who only skim headlines. Many years ago, there was a book out by Eugene Burdick, and a co-writer I can’t now remember, called “A Nation Of Sheep”. Nice title.
One of his points which has stayed with me is that it’s interesting to compare the first and last paragraphs of a news article with each other for clues as to what we now call “spin”. Another was to compare the headline with the first paragraph. Sometimes jarring differences in interpretation leap about. Commuters and Google skimmers don’t have time for this.
Don’t want to wander longer on this subject, it’s scary one, but will say that it’s sad that Pajamas Media (aptly named..indicating more time to spend) can’t be read hanging onto a subway strap swinging along towards downtown.
Maybe we’ll evolve before it’s too late.
BTW-”there” property? If I remember correctly, doesnt Con Ed own part of that property?????? And WHERE Does fido Rauf and his dog wife Daisy the Con lady get the $ for this? According to there own tax filing , they have only $18,ooo in the bank. Certainly not enough to buy expensive property in Manhattan. Who are there financiers? Ive heard the head of the Muslim Brotherhood is behind this “con” job. Get a foothold in America, then try to devour the host.
“then try to devour the host”
Isn’t that called a parasite?
If, as I have read, Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf practices the path of Sufi, then I sincerely doubt if what Abdur-Rahman Muhammad says about his radicalism is true. I do feel, however that his grasp of semiotics leaves much to be desired – he miscalculated badly if his wish was to build bridges between Islam and the average US citizen.
Sufi is on the opposite side of Islamic thought from our enemies, and its practitioners are persecuted by the likes of the Islamic Brotherhood and al-Qaeda. Perhaps those are the bridges he hopes to build.
Sharia, Part Two: Imam Rauf’s Jihad Against America
I’m about as sick of writing about mosques, Muslims, Sharia, Islam, Imam Feisel Abdul Rauf, and Muhammad as readers are sick of reading and hearing about them.
Yet to suspend attention to them at what might be the most critical juncture in America’s history is to surrender to those forces dedicated to the defeat and dismantling of America as we know it.
Symbolized by the Ground Zero Monster Mosque, Muslims and Islam, with Rauf acting as their commander, are intent on capitalizing on their victory of September 11th, 2001, defeating America in our decades-long war on terror, and subjugating Americans to the brutal strictures of Sharia law.
As I concluded Part One of this series, “Think it can’t happen here? September 11th, 2001 couldn’t happen here, but it did.” And it could be repeated.
As per usual, the Democrat Party has taken an almost united stance of support on the issue of Imam Rauf’s obsession with building his 15 story, $100,000,000 mosque-cultural center-gymnasium-restaurant-fun place massage parlor near the hallowed site of Ground Zero.
Unlike Christians’ lack of rights to erect a cathedral, a church, even a chapel in Mecca and Medina, Rauf has every constitutional right to build his mosque and no American has disputed that right. Having a right and doing what’s right are vastly different, however.
Joining with the Islamic Raufians, the formerly-reputable Democrat Party has ironically discovered deep within its bowels a renewed, long-lost concern for religiosity and religious freedom and the First Amendment.
Democrats have condemned those who oppose Rauf’s project as bigoted, racist, un-Americans for seeking to deny Rauf’s grand scheme to trumpet Islam’s triumph of nine years ago by building a garish monument to Islam’s greatest victory over the infidel Christians since Saladin captured Jerusalem in A.D. 1187. . .
(Read more at http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=1861)
formerly-reputable Democrat Party has ironically discovered deep within its bowels a renewed, long-lost concern for religiosity and religious freedom and the First Amendment.
Oh, its deep in their bowels alright, but its not that far from an exit.
What underlies the debate about the WTC mosque is safety – personal safety, safety for one’s family, and safety for America. If there are non-Muslims who support the mosque, it is because they believe in the depths of their hearts that they will be safer if the Muslims can be brought on board with American ideals. If there are those who are opposed to the mosque, it is because they do not trust Muslims because of their poor behavior in the recent and distant past.
Are you among those who see pussy-cat traits in the behavior of a lion or are you the sort that sees a lion’s behavior the way your house cat comports itself, and so you protect yourself even from your pet.
Both ordinary types of people get eaten by lions, but at different moments in their relationships. While most are being digested, only the truly agile get to hang lion skins on their walls.
Rauf wants to build a bridge between Lower Manhattan and the 9th century.
Had you not posted a link of your own blog I wouldn’t have believe you wrote this dribble. Abdur Rahman at times you made extreme remarks before but this is just pure lunacy. You obviously didn’t place any thought nor any research into your opinion. You just repeating neo-con propaganda.
“radical Muslim Brotherhood (the parent of al-Qaeda)”
Are you serious with comment? The Muslim Brotherhood in not the parent of Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda started in Afghanistan by a group Saudis not Muslim brotherhood. The MB may be conservative and even not fit for leadership of Egypt bu they not be any means radical.
Also it really a ground zero masjid considering a masjid a place where the main focus is the musalla. This project has a supposed a swimming pool,basket courts and even interfaith prayer room. Sounds more like Muslim YMCA to me.
“It is not even entirely clear to me that, were the Muslim developers of the mosque genuinely moderate, it would be so bitterly opposed. ”
Imam Faisal works for US Government. You can’t be more “moderate” than that! Imam Faisal has always be known as having accommodation mindset. If Imam Faisal isn’t “moderate” nobody is.
On another note a scholar (not sure if Imam Faisal actually studied under any shuykh) working for a government is viewed as an anathema by Islamic tradition. Unless under extreme necessity or extreme duress ulama shouldn’t be working for the ruling powers.
“But how can anyone believe that Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf and his followers are moderates when they very deliberately refuse to condemn Hamas, a sworn enemy of this country and a major center of terror in the world?”
Hamas is political party in one country since when do judge a person’s morality and islamic knowledge on condoning or condemning politiclal parties. You really have no concept of adab Abdur Rahman. Shuykh have always condemned behavior but always stayed clear of condemning people.This from the sunnah. So we should disregard the the sunnah to appease people? This is not Islam!! It’s not shuyukh job to condemn individuals or groups. In fact this is sign of absence of Islamic training, knowledge and manners.
“If he manages to get the thing built, he will be one of the most powerful personalities in the Muslim world — radical, moderate, or otherwise.”
You really reaching with that comment. Imam Faisal today and tomorrow is little known imam of group most never heard before. Imam Faisal will never be a Shaykh Hamza Yusuf nor even Shaykh Hussein Abdul Sattar for that matter. The fact ii is well publicized he works for th US government just about destroys any credibility he really had to begin with.
“More importantly, the mosque will come to symbolize in the radical Muslim world the triumph of Bin Laden’s attack, and provide a kind of heavenly validation for his approach to spreading radical ideology. For what other reason could the tenth anniversary have been chosen for the groundbreaking?”
wow Abdur Rahman with that comment I have say I’m very suspicious you actually wrote piece. How can a Muslim be so short sighted and unaware. Every Muslim under sun knows Sept 9- 12 is Eid al Fitr.
“Non-Muslim Americans have yet to see any clean line of demarcation between radical and moderate Muslims.”
Because that is fiction. A “moderate Muslim” is akin to wet water. Is there such a thing as dry water?
In Islamic thought people who engage in acts against Islamic principles are not radicals but either munafiq (hyprocrites), muharibun (those wage war against society and property) or mufsidoon (those who cause evil) . The language spoken and acts taken don’t follow what non-muslims want to see. The Shuyukh’s job is to teach morality,closeness to his creator and good manners not condemn individuals or groups. Again this from the sunnah. The Prophet made it very clear saying something bad about a person is backbitiing,even if true. As well saying something bad about a person you’re unsure about is lying. A great sign of bad morality is someone quick to condemn individuals which why you won’t see people who supposed to teach morality (Islamic scholars) condemning people or groups. Instead they will follow the sunnah and condemn behavior.
After reading your articles for about 2 years or so all I can say Abdur Rahman do yourself a favor and either leave Islam or increase your Islamic knowledge. Over past years or so you seem to have gained a perverse pleasure is slandering Muslims. This behavior is a sign of unhealthy heart and people with unhealthy hearts will only bring destruction,disappointment and frustration to themselves.
I would wish you peace but I’m afraid it will fall upon deaf ears. All will say peace to all those are pleased with Allah as his Lord,Muhammad as his messenger and Islam as his way of life.
And here’s the problem.
I have no idea how serious a Muslim Hamza 21 may be. I follow his link and find a bunch of hip-hop stuff, but I am not at all surprised that he is not on the same page as Abdur Rahman.
The rest of us Americans had better know that the occasional Muslim who pokes his or her head up to sound somewhat moderate is not really a Muslim by the standards of most other Muslims.
The sad but true conclusion is that there are no moderate Muslims, just Muslims who are grinding their own particular axes for their own particular reasons, which seems to be the case for Abdur Rahman, or Muslims who aren’t considered real Muslims by most Muslims, or Muslims who just don’t want to get their hands dirty with the brutal work of jihad but have no objection otherwise.
…of course nobody in Medina thought much of Mohammad ..until his banditry made him rich enough and powerful enough to kill and intimidate his opponents. …scratch intimidate ..he killed all his opponents. sure he did it in a kind and merciful way as anyone who speaks for god would.
Muslims slander themselves.
Well, the original sales pitch for Cordoba House was that it would be a way to build bridges between Muslims, Jews and Christians (but not toward other people, evidently). It would be a repudiation of the violence of 8/11. This kind of fantasy dream of unity between East and West is powerfully attractive to the Left, especially when they feel threatened by certain Muslims. Victor Davis Hanson makes the great point that “Cordoba” recalls to leftists the image of an idyllic period of peace under Muslim rule. But to jihadists, it is a word which symbolizes their desire for re-conquest and new conquests. Imam Rauf is slick.
However, once it became clear to everyone how deeply divisive this proposal was, the insistence on sticking with it became a clear message that even so-called “moderate” Muslims and their champions are grossly insensitive to the feelings of those who are still upset about 9/11. Which may account for some of the opposition to the project from Muslims like our author here, Miss USA, Canadian Muslim groups and Egyptian Muslim scholars.
Bloomberg and Obama made it much harder to resolve this issue by their single-minded focus on religious freedom. This made it difficult for the backers of the plan to be gracious by moving the mosque complex.
why are you a muslim?
..and does “moderate muslim mean you get to chose the bits you want to believe or the bits you will honour and partake in?
Islams tagline -”resistance is futile”.
You can’t have ‘peace’ between civilization and The Borg.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg_%28Star_Trek%29
The best response is in the very words of the Iman comparing our Declaration of Independence with the Koran…and saying it is SHARIA COMPLIANT. Watch: YouTube – Sharia Law And US Constitution The Same By Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl5qpT5nbuA
It’s a lose-lose situation. If the Cordoba Initiative’s mosque does not genuinely promote goodwill between Islam and the west, then its outreach is a farce. If it does…wouldn’t jihadis around the world try to bomb the place? Ground Zero is hallowed ground to them too, after all.
…you even think this is possibly about out reach ??
give your head a shake. islam has been very clear ..they want the world and they want it with their barbaric sharia laws.
I have to agree with Paul from Boston, who may be my Bro. In law, the question as to why africans would convert to a religion that enslaved them ?
That question has come into my mind a few times before. Any answers out there ?
what is the arabic word for a black man?
hey moderator …my comments you have not posted. isn’t that why we are having this debate. ISN’T THAT ISLAM ?
are you trying to be “nice” or are you just like the other head in the sand progressives?
waiting for an answer ..WHY ARE YOU A MUSLIM ?
do I need to make it multiple choice?
a) 4 wives
b) no my fault divorce
c) paradise after death with young (or never buggered boys) virgins
d) slavery allowed
you cann’t make this …. up. islam is an abomination. PERIOD
…Abdur-Rahman Muhammad.
didn’t I give you enough choices? …. I could go on.
I am thinking that if you replied you would say you would take no part in that part of islam. nor do you agree with that part. But can you separate islam into parts you like and parts you don’t? That would make you an apostate wouldn’t it?
… isn’t islam beyond criticism for muslims (and the infidel if the muslims have the power)?
Here is another question …how does one become an iman? can I be one? I am thinking I will be one. from now on I will be an iman.
will I get a reply ?
..maybe I should change tack.
…HOW has islam advanced the cause of women ?
…how has islam advanced the cause of human civilization ?
…how has islam advanced the cause of poor and suffering people of the world (non-muslims)?
…how has islam stopped the slaughter of muslims by other muslims?
…how has islam stopped the discrimination of other religions in muslim and non muslim countries.
I doubt that I will get a response that is going to give me a satisfactory answer.
I know the answers to the above questions.
all round the world today almost ALL strife and misery, wars and conflicts are a direct result of islam.
…I suppose you just want to be part of that. who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men.
….how has islam stopped discroimination against non muslims?
because no one wants to address these questions (let alone answer them) we will not get to any meaningful debate.
still waiting for god.
1) I’ve yet to see the tenets, other than the Koran, published for ‘Modern/Moderate’ Islam. Perhaps a universally accepted reference has been published that I’m not aware of, so please someone, enlighten me. I would read it with genuine interest. 2) At the same time, cite examples of ‘moderate klansmen’(not a religion, per se, but surely an ideology) assimilating and being ‘welcomed’ into modern society. Where can I attend the meetings for the “Moderate Athiests’?
My point: I don’t believe you can drastically change the ‘recipe’ for a widely recognized belief system and claim ‘Well, this is just my version of it’. No it’s not. It’s a different religion. Give it its own name and stick with it. You can’t mix whiskey and tomato juice and sell it as ‘My version of a Martini’.
Bilbo highlights the problem with the debate. Just because someone agrees with your point of view it doesn’t mean they are a moderate Muslim.
This may well be how Rauf ended up as an ambassador for the USA to the Islamic world. More likely, is that the State Department and vetting groups saw nothing wrong with his views because he didn’t openly advocate or support the use of violence in English.
Just because someone agrees with your point of view it doesn’t mean they are a moderate Muslim.
Yes, that’s the problem with this piece. I wish PJM had vetted Abdur-Rahman enough to explain that he is not a traditional Muslim at the top of the page.
Instead AR seems to be the product of internecine war between Nation of Islam Black Muslims and non-NOI African-American Muslims. As such AR is a fringe figure peculiar to the black American Muslim scene on the East Coast. He may be moderate, at least in comparison to Black Muslims, but he doesn’t represent anyone or any viewpoint other than his own in the Muslim world.
Will Allah spit the “luke-warm” Muslims out of his mouth? I mean if you claim “Moderate Muslim”.. are you denying parts of the very thing that you claim to follow and believe in???? Sounds to me (my opinion of course), that a “Moderate Muslim” would be one who is a hypocrit to the very “Relgion” they claim to follow.
It is obvious that Muslims have the right to build, as Obama put it, where it is legal for them to do so.
Consider that we do not call Blacks Negros and we don’t call Asians Orientals. We have the right to do so, but we don’t because we consider that we are mutual citizens of a great country that tries to get along one with another.
The forceful push to build a Mosque, on what the majority of 9/11 families consider sacred ground, is rude. These same Muslims are asking for tolerance when they are not being tolerant themselves. And the result: severe animosity towards ALL Muslims. The majority of Americans polled DO NOT WANT any Mosque located anywhere near the site of 9/11. Over 70% of Americans have indicated a preference for NO Mosque at ground zero.
Here is the result:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/25/AR2010082504298.html?hpid=topnews
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/243580/its-about-sharia-andrew-c-mccarthy
It is now inescapable to me that Muslims, Islam, and the Koran are evil and intolerant at their core. Investigate Koran teachings regarding Jews and others — there’s much hate and calls to violence.
Also, how can, given what the Koran DICTATES about Jews and infidels, Mayor Bloomberg say that we should be tolerant towards these Muslims. Would he, or does he, show the same “tolerance” for skin-heads and their pro-NAZI and pro-Hitler propaganda? Let’s ask. In Europe, you can’t buy Hitler’s Mein Kampf because it is considered hate literature.
Read the articles above and also Pam Geller’s website regarding what exactly the Koran dictates: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.
It is no longer surprising that young enthusiastic Muslims, who take the Koran seriously and read, re-read, and read again its tenets, become fanatical, extreme Islamists and above all become radicalized terrorists. Without a single doubt, the Koran of Islam is a book of hate.
Even “moderate” Muslims, if they read, worship, pray and believe the Koran, are extreme in their minds and are without a doubt partial to the feelings of the extremist Muslims. The main proponent of the Mosque at ground zero has said himself that the U.S. was somehow responsible itself for the 9/11 attack. Radical thinking. But American’s are no fools; they are watching these Muslims very carefully.
Remember, there are less than 1% Muslims in the U.S. And, the United States statistically is STILL a Christian nation (despite what Muslim Obama says); 70% of American’s identify themselves as Christian in the United States.
There will be NO Mosque at “ground zero”. And, still, the animosity created against the Muslims, and Islam, because of the hatred contained in the Koran, will spread and grow throughout America.
It is wrong to say that the Muslims have made significant contributions to America. It is not so. It has been the majority of European Caucasians, and others, that have made major sacrifices and have been exceedingly inventive to provide America and Europe with the tremendous growth and prosperity.through hard work and sacrifice, that we all benefit from — these being members of a Christian society and cultures.
May the Christian Lord continue to bless America. We will fight Sharia and Koran influences as totally unAmerican and unconstitutional perversions. This we will do immediately. Nip this Sharia and Koran in the bud in America and let’s get back to our prosperity.
He says he is a moslem, but does not believe the Koran’s commands to enslave and kill for allah. Doesn’t add up, friend. Its one or the other. You can’t be a moslem and a decent person at the same time. Choose.
I only hope this guy does not get a fatwa. But god knows he is damn close to attracting one. I hope this guy is safe from Allah.
Two points-
1. With the human suffering in primarily Musslim countries recently (Paristan’s ongoing flooding and the earthquake and redulting tsunami in Indonesia), why is it that Western, predominantly Christian countries are donating goods and services. Where are the Islamic countiies, specifically those rich from oil profits? I thought that The Prophet taught that charity was a virtue.
2- I am an atheist homosexual of northeastern European extraction. My family have all been US citizns for much more than a centry. As a chemist and hydrologist, I have performed research useful to all, including those in the Middle East. Why do you want to kill me?
Tom
I think the only way for America to respond to Islam and support moderate Muslims is by enacting tough laws. Call it ‘tough love’ if you like. If a Muslim is a true moderate, he/she will not mind outlawing Sharia. Right moderate Muslims? America has to pass laws that ensure judges use American laws for court decisions. Google, “Louisiana At Leading Edge In Fight Against Shariah” to read more on what I mean. Cabbies are going to have to tolerate picking up people they deem unfit to enter their cabs, etc, etc. There is going to be a BIG fight to get the necessary laws in place that but it’s the only way to ensure true moderate Muslims AND non-Muslims are protected and extremist Muslims are declawed.
I think the only way for America to respond to Islam and support moderate Muslims is by enacting tough laws. Call it ‘tough love’ if you like. If a Muslim is a true moderate, he/she will not mind outlawing Sharia. Right moderate Muslims? America has to pass laws that ensure judges use American laws for court decisions. Google, “Louisiana At Leading Edge In Fight Against Shariah” to read more on what I mean. Cabbies are going to have to tolerate picking up people they deem unfit to enter their cabs, etc, etc. There is going to be a BIG fight to get the necessary laws in place but it’s the only way to ensure true moderate Muslims AND non-Muslims are protected and extremist Muslims are declawed.
Islam has a number of problems. The Pope cannot enforce the Catholic Church’s prohibition on abortion. Islamic law can and is enforced. Islam has a complete legal system with jurisprudence that goes back 1400 years. Much of this legal system is hostile to everything that we in the United States stand for. I suggest everyone study Islamic law.
Another problem I have with Islam is that it is fielding an army. These Islamic terrorist groups all want to impose Islamic law. They are defending ‘Muslim Land’. A recent example:
The following statement was declared by Imams that met in Istanbul in March 2008 is a classic example: “The obligation of the Islamic Nation [is] to regard the sending of foreign warships into Muslim waters, claiming to control the borders and prevent the smuggling of arms to Gaza, as a declaration of war, a new occupation, sinful aggression, and a clear violation of the sovereignty of the Nation. This must be rejected and fought by all means and ways.”) Please note the use of the terms “Islamic Nation and “Muslim waters” and “Sovereignty of the nation”. These concepts are common throughout the Islamic world and contribute greatly to the warfare that is common where Islam is in contact with the nation-states of the world.
Want to start a war? Have ‘religions’ act like they are governments. Islam has an economic policy, a foreign policy and a complete legal system.
No wonder so much warfare and violence is so common in the places where Islam is in contact with the rest of the world.
The trgaedy is that the GZM already has the support of the President whom I suspect is really a Muslim based on all his actions. Hopefully, he won’t be the President when the Project really comes up for aproval.
It is quite refreshing and so eloquently put into words, you state exactly what most that oppose the Mosque feel. The sad truth is that your story will never be reported on or published as it is not convenient to the main stream medias cause. I am proud to be an American and being born in the most tolerant city in the most tolerant country in the world, I simply laugh out loud when they actually bring up the subject of freedom of religion in this case- it simply laughable at how desperate they are to actually try to contrive this argument. You are very accurate in the way I see things in regard to this subject, as a resident that lived 5 blocks from the world trade center for 18 years and still do, Muslims never experienced an y true racism or violence on a large scale after 9/11 even if the media tries to portray a different view of things. That alone speaks volumes about the tolerance in our country, as opposed to the lack of tolerance or non existence in the Muslim world. Thank you for your words as they are very valid and refreshing.
Thanks , I’ve just been searching for information about this topic for ages and yours is the greatest I’ve found out so far. But, what about the bottom line? Are you certain in regards to the source?
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