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	<title>Comments on: Film: Dreamgirls (The Supremes without &#8220;Baby Love&#8221;)</title>
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		<title>By: Brandon Cordy</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/film_dreamgirls_the_supremes_w/#comment-3777</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon Cordy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jan 2007 03:35:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/film-dreamgirls-the-supremes-without-baby-love/#comment-3777</guid>
		<description>Mr. Simon, yours is one of several reviews I have read which essentially criticize &quot;Dreamgirls&quot; for what is seen as improper depictions of Motown figures or music. However, &quot;Dremagirls&quot; is a work of fiction, and it is not in any way a biographical film. It makes sense that Curtis and Deena are not quite like the real-life Berry Gordy and Diana Ross, because the story is a fictional one inspired by, but not intended to actually depict, their lives. Gordy never married Ross, Florence Ballard (the real life counterpart to the fictional Effie White) never quite made it on her own, and so on. Criticizing &quot;Dreamgirls&quot; in this way is like criticizing Alfred Hitchcock&#039;s &quot;Psycho&quot; for improperly depicting the Ed Gein murders.

Similarly, the score is a Broadway one with a wider range of R&amp;B/soul influences than only the Motown Sound. Even if &quot;Dreamgirls&quot; were trying to perfectly reflect Motown&#039;s music, the &quot;Motown Sound&quot; should only be present in a small fraction of the songs performed, given the timeline of the film&#039;s plot. The &quot;Motown Sound&quot; era began in 1963 and ended in about 1971, &quot;Dreamgirls&quot; takes place from 1962 to 1966, and 1973 to 1975). A soundtrack full of songs that sound like &quot;Baby Love&quot; and &quot;My Girl&quot; might be nice for fans wh oenjoy that surface-layer of Motown&#039;s catalogues, but it wouldn&#039;t be accurate to the music that came out of the record label during the entirety of the 1960s and 1970s. Although tempered through the stylings of Broadway, &quot;Dreamgirls&quot; gets it closer to right than a lot of people seem to realize. The thing it gets most right is the fact that the story criticizes Motown as much as it pays tribute to it: the film takes the position of most R&amp;B historians in criticizing the label for cutting its R&amp;B to make it palatable to white audiences. Notice, once The Dreams crossover, how the company ignores the Civil Rights Movement happening around them, particularly the 12th Street riots in Detroit.

As someone who knows the history behind Motown &quot;frontways and backways&quot;, I should be the first person offended by the film. Instead, I was thoroughly impressed by just how much Bill Condon studied the history of Motown and the other prominent R&amp;B labels and artists of the era.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Simon, yours is one of several reviews I have read which essentially criticize &#8220;Dreamgirls&#8221; for what is seen as improper depictions of Motown figures or music. However, &#8220;Dremagirls&#8221; is a work of fiction, and it is not in any way a biographical film. It makes sense that Curtis and Deena are not quite like the real-life Berry Gordy and Diana Ross, because the story is a fictional one inspired by, but not intended to actually depict, their lives. Gordy never married Ross, Florence Ballard (the real life counterpart to the fictional Effie White) never quite made it on her own, and so on. Criticizing &#8220;Dreamgirls&#8221; in this way is like criticizing Alfred Hitchcock&#8217;s &#8220;Psycho&#8221; for improperly depicting the Ed Gein murders.</p>
<p>Similarly, the score is a Broadway one with a wider range of R&amp;B/soul influences than only the Motown Sound. Even if &#8220;Dreamgirls&#8221; were trying to perfectly reflect Motown&#8217;s music, the &#8220;Motown Sound&#8221; should only be present in a small fraction of the songs performed, given the timeline of the film&#8217;s plot. The &#8220;Motown Sound&#8221; era began in 1963 and ended in about 1971, &#8220;Dreamgirls&#8221; takes place from 1962 to 1966, and 1973 to 1975). A soundtrack full of songs that sound like &#8220;Baby Love&#8221; and &#8220;My Girl&#8221; might be nice for fans wh oenjoy that surface-layer of Motown&#8217;s catalogues, but it wouldn&#8217;t be accurate to the music that came out of the record label during the entirety of the 1960s and 1970s. Although tempered through the stylings of Broadway, &#8220;Dreamgirls&#8221; gets it closer to right than a lot of people seem to realize. The thing it gets most right is the fact that the story criticizes Motown as much as it pays tribute to it: the film takes the position of most R&amp;B historians in criticizing the label for cutting its R&amp;B to make it palatable to white audiences. Notice, once The Dreams crossover, how the company ignores the Civil Rights Movement happening around them, particularly the 12th Street riots in Detroit.</p>
<p>As someone who knows the history behind Motown &#8220;frontways and backways&#8221;, I should be the first person offended by the film. Instead, I was thoroughly impressed by just how much Bill Condon studied the history of Motown and the other prominent R&amp;B labels and artists of the era.</p>
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		<title>By: Duke</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/film_dreamgirls_the_supremes_w/#comment-3776</link>
		<dc:creator>Duke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jan 2007 23:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/film-dreamgirls-the-supremes-without-baby-love/#comment-3776</guid>
		<description>I saw it yesterday and I posted on it.  I saw it just like you did even though I did not bring any Supremes thoughts in with me.  I thought through the first third that I was watching the best movie in years, and then as you said just bad bad fifties stuff after that.  I actually thought Murphy and Foxx were dammed good with what they had (the only way you can judge) but Beyonce??? This was Hudson&#039;s movie and her one note screeching did nothing for me but wish the movie was over.  BTW in the venue I saw it the best thing shown on the screen was a dynamite BMW commercial.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw it yesterday and I posted on it.  I saw it just like you did even though I did not bring any Supremes thoughts in with me.  I thought through the first third that I was watching the best movie in years, and then as you said just bad bad fifties stuff after that.  I actually thought Murphy and Foxx were dammed good with what they had (the only way you can judge) but Beyonce??? This was Hudson&#8217;s movie and her one note screeching did nothing for me but wish the movie was over.  BTW in the venue I saw it the best thing shown on the screen was a dynamite BMW commercial.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/film_dreamgirls_the_supremes_w/#comment-3775</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jan 2007 14:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/film-dreamgirls-the-supremes-without-baby-love/#comment-3775</guid>
		<description>For the record, I love movie musicals from Yankee Doodle Dandy to the Umbrellas of Cherbourg and onwards. Of course I adore stage musicals as well, have even performed in them (though not particularly well) in summer stock, etc. So just because I don&#039;t like Dreamgirls doesn&#039;t mean I don&#039;t like musicals.  And it should be clear from the above that I am a huge Motown fan.  It should also be clear from the comments that there are many who share my view of Dreamgirls, even with its Tony.  I didn&#039;t much care for Chicago either with its various prizes.  So it goes.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the record, I love movie musicals from Yankee Doodle Dandy to the Umbrellas of Cherbourg and onwards. Of course I adore stage musicals as well, have even performed in them (though not particularly well) in summer stock, etc. So just because I don&#8217;t like Dreamgirls doesn&#8217;t mean I don&#8217;t like musicals.  And it should be clear from the above that I am a huge Motown fan.  It should also be clear from the comments that there are many who share my view of Dreamgirls, even with its Tony.  I didn&#8217;t much care for Chicago either with its various prizes.  So it goes.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/film_dreamgirls_the_supremes_w/#comment-3774</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jan 2007 07:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/film-dreamgirls-the-supremes-without-baby-love/#comment-3774</guid>
		<description>&quot;The main problem, as usual, is the script - or lack thereof.&quot;

This is a script that won the 1981 Tony for Best Book of a Musical.  It was fleshed out and certain details changed, but Roger&#039;s original criticism wasn&#039;t of the stage-to-screen transition, but rather of the script as a whole.

Are there musicals you *do* like, Roger, or is this just rating a very, very good film of a musical poorly because it isn&#039;t a straight film?

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The main problem, as usual, is the script &#8211; or lack thereof.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is a script that won the 1981 Tony for Best Book of a Musical.  It was fleshed out and certain details changed, but Roger&#8217;s original criticism wasn&#8217;t of the stage-to-screen transition, but rather of the script as a whole.</p>
<p>Are there musicals you *do* like, Roger, or is this just rating a very, very good film of a musical poorly because it isn&#8217;t a straight film?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Schwartz</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/film_dreamgirls_the_supremes_w/#comment-3773</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Schwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jan 2007 21:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/film-dreamgirls-the-supremes-without-baby-love/#comment-3773</guid>
		<description>Berry Gordy, Jr. was born on November 28, 1929, at Detroit, Michigan. In 1957 Gordy discovered Smokey Robinson and The Miracles.  He started Motown in  1959.



In 1968, Gordy moved to Los Angeles and Motown followed in 1972. In the 70&#039;s Gordy produced, &quot;Lady Sings the Blues&quot; starring Diana Ross, with Richard Pryor and Billy Dee Williams. Ross was nominated for an Academy Award. Berry Gordy soon after produced and directed &quot;Mahogany,&quot; also starring Ross.



I should try doing &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berry_Gordy&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my research first&lt;/a&gt;:



Gordy sold Motown Records to MCA 1988 for $61 million. He was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1990 and published an autobiography, &quot;To Be Loved&quot;, in 1994. He is now 77.



Gordy has been married and divorced several times, and has seven children: Hazel Joy, Berry, Kennedy, Kerry, Rhonda, Stefan and Terry James. Rhonda is the daughter of Gordy and Diana Ross.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Berry Gordy, Jr. was born on November 28, 1929, at Detroit, Michigan. In 1957 Gordy discovered Smokey Robinson and The Miracles.  He started Motown in  1959.</p>
<p>In 1968, Gordy moved to Los Angeles and Motown followed in 1972. In the 70&#8242;s Gordy produced, &#8220;Lady Sings the Blues&#8221; starring Diana Ross, with Richard Pryor and Billy Dee Williams. Ross was nominated for an Academy Award. Berry Gordy soon after produced and directed &#8220;Mahogany,&#8221; also starring Ross.</p>
<p>I should try doing <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berry_Gordy" rel="nofollow">my research first</a>:</p>
<p>Gordy sold Motown Records to MCA 1988 for $61 million. He was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1990 and published an autobiography, &#8220;To Be Loved&#8221;, in 1994. He is now 77.</p>
<p>Gordy has been married and divorced several times, and has seven children: Hazel Joy, Berry, Kennedy, Kerry, Rhonda, Stefan and Terry James. Rhonda is the daughter of Gordy and Diana Ross.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Schwartz</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/film_dreamgirls_the_supremes_w/#comment-3772</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Schwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jan 2007 21:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/film-dreamgirls-the-supremes-without-baby-love/#comment-3772</guid>
		<description>Given the way he was portrayed, Barry Gordy was not going to let them use the Motown catalog, which they would have to have had. At some time in the future, when time and chance has delivered the catalog into corporate hands, which would only be concerned with the royalties, then we will get the real deal.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given the way he was portrayed, Barry Gordy was not going to let them use the Motown catalog, which they would have to have had. At some time in the future, when time and chance has delivered the catalog into corporate hands, which would only be concerned with the royalties, then we will get the real deal.</p>
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		<title>By: Bernie</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/film_dreamgirls_the_supremes_w/#comment-3771</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jan 2007 20:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/film-dreamgirls-the-supremes-without-baby-love/#comment-3771</guid>
		<description>I agree totally. A horrendous film, boring and without any redeeming value.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree totally. A horrendous film, boring and without any redeeming value.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/film_dreamgirls_the_supremes_w/#comment-3770</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jan 2007 19:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/film-dreamgirls-the-supremes-without-baby-love/#comment-3770</guid>
		<description>I saw Dreamgirls last night and I agree with you.  It was dreadful.  Boring.  On my list of top ten really, really BAD movies.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw Dreamgirls last night and I agree with you.  It was dreadful.  Boring.  On my list of top ten really, really BAD movies.</p>
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		<title>By: Wifemom1st</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/film_dreamgirls_the_supremes_w/#comment-3769</link>
		<dc:creator>Wifemom1st</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jan 2007 19:34:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/film-dreamgirls-the-supremes-without-baby-love/#comment-3769</guid>
		<description>I totally disagree. I thought the movie was great. I will be patiently waiting for the DVD to come out. I think Jennifer Hudson did an excellent job in her performance. Jamie Foxx I dont think was a villan only a man with a dream that he would be detered from. Keeping in mind that this is a play brought to the stage, loosely based on the Supreme&#039;s you cant expect it to be like Walk the line and Ray...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally disagree. I thought the movie was great. I will be patiently waiting for the DVD to come out. I think Jennifer Hudson did an excellent job in her performance. Jamie Foxx I dont think was a villan only a man with a dream that he would be detered from. Keeping in mind that this is a play brought to the stage, loosely based on the Supreme&#8217;s you cant expect it to be like Walk the line and Ray&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: James Hudnall</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/film_dreamgirls_the_supremes_w/#comment-3768</link>
		<dc:creator>James Hudnall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jan 2007 19:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/film-dreamgirls-the-supremes-without-baby-love/#comment-3768</guid>
		<description>I had the exact opposite impression of the film: Good music, good acting. The story is very close in many respects to the Motown story, which is an important slice of Americana. So it&#039;s a good story. And I feel they managed to flesh out all the characters pretty well.

Unlike many similar films, it doesn&#039;t go for over the top theatrics. Eddie Murphy plays a James Brown type singer who is very mild mannered off stage. The diva isn&#039;t the best looking dream, but the least looking one.

This wikipedia article breaks down the parallels. If you are a student of the history of this music, you would see it is based on historical fact (except the way things turn out for some characters)

&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamgirls&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamgirls&lt;/a&gt;

I personally likes the way they had Beyonce look like Diana Ross through out the years, matching her look (if not her personality) perfectly. She even sings like her in some scenes.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had the exact opposite impression of the film: Good music, good acting. The story is very close in many respects to the Motown story, which is an important slice of Americana. So it&#8217;s a good story. And I feel they managed to flesh out all the characters pretty well.</p>
<p>Unlike many similar films, it doesn&#8217;t go for over the top theatrics. Eddie Murphy plays a James Brown type singer who is very mild mannered off stage. The diva isn&#8217;t the best looking dream, but the least looking one.</p>
<p>This wikipedia article breaks down the parallels. If you are a student of the history of this music, you would see it is based on historical fact (except the way things turn out for some characters)</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamgirls" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamgirls</a></p>
<p>I personally likes the way they had Beyonce look like Diana Ross through out the years, matching her look (if not her personality) perfectly. She even sings like her in some scenes.</p>
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