Film: 300 Questions
Like many Iranians the world over, Los Angeles based filmmaker Ardeshir Arian -- no supporter of the current Iranian regime -- casts a critical eye on the movie's portrayal of the ancient Persian Empire, and wonders if the filmmakers behind "300" haven't confused the ruling class of that era with the vastly different culture of today.
As an Iranian-American filmmaker who believes in truth and humanity it very much disturbed me to see the magnificent Persian culture and heritage; the great civilization of my origin, the legacy of my ancestors, the facts of history, and the truth as a whole being attacked by a group of filmmakers for “A Fistful of Dollars.” And many now believe that there are also political intentions behind “300.”
No matter the reasons for the making of the film, I feel obligated to set the record straight on some of the misconceptions that this movie is creating for its viewers. I should mention that this film has already sparked enough emotion and resentment to trigger two petitions online that are already among the top 25 in popularity and growing by the minute.
By many historical accounts contrary to his depiction in “300″, Xerxes was a wise man, a tolerant king, and the founder of “Systematic Management”. Not a bald and clean-shaven robotic monstrosity with the synthesized voice of a machine. And certainly not the barbaric, talentless, stupid giant that the makers of “300″ have portrayed him as. 1
Xerxes was the son of Darius the Great and Queen Atossa, and grandson of Cyrus the Great, the liberator of Babylon and creator of the first “Human Rights Charter” known to mankind. 2
The film characterizes the ancient Persians as anti-woman, racist, and undemocratic; none of which is true. In fact, some of Xerxes’ most influential subordinates were female immigrants to the Persian Empire later made citizens. Among the key women of Xerxes’ court were his wife, Queen Esther of Israel, and his Navy Commander Queen Artemisia of Halicarnassus, who lead the Persian Navy against the Greeks. His daughter, Homa, is one of the first novelists known to civilization. I think the makers of “300″ have mistakenly transposed the Mullahs’ mess and the era of the Persian Empire with regard to the role of women in Persian culture. 3
Being unusually democratic and tolerant for the era, the ancient Persians did not interfere with the religion, social life, and habits of conquered nations. Xerxes himself did not want to attack Greece, but did so only under pressure from Greek natives within the empire. 4
I do not know whose bright idea it was to use real names in a historical fantasy instead of just calling it fiction. But is there any difference between the makers of this movie and Ahmadinejad? They are both blind to the truth. Brainwashing is wrong whether done by communists, Islamo-Fascists, or Warner Brothers. The intentions may be different, but the results are the same. Obscuring history and slandering a great civilization is an undeniable sin, and an intolerable offense by any standard.
Due to the many falsifications of this film I will not bother to enumerate them all. But for the enlightenment of the reader I should mention that the Persian wardrobe was taken from “Ali-Baba and the Forty Thieves of Baghdad”, and the attire of the “Immortals” was stolen from Darth Vader. I guess what these filmmakers lacked – besides substance, knowledge, ethics, and a conscience – was professor Emmett Brown’s flying DeLorean. Maybe they should have invited Michael J. Fox to change history. Alas, that would not help either because the DeLorean was destroyed in the last “Back to the Future.” What a pity.
1. Xerxes, whose character was later distorted in Greek legend, was neither foolish nor overly optimistic; although sensible and intelligent, he was nevertheless, a sovereign by divine right, to whom opposition was as annoying as sacrilege according to G. Glotz
2. Based on the Zoroastrian doctrine, it was the strong emphasis on honesty and integrity that gave the ancient Persians credibility to rule the world, even in the eyes of the people belonging to the conquered nations. -Herodotus
3. She likewise gave to Xerxes sounder counsel than any of his other allies. Against advice of Mardonius, Xerxes acted on her advice when he decided to withdraw from Greece. -Herodotus
4. War against the Greeks With the tranquility of the empire reestablished, Xerxes would willingly have devoted himself to peaceful activities. But many of those around him were pressing for the renewal of hostilities. His cousin and brother-in-law Mardonius, supported by a strong party of exiled Greeks, incited him to take revenge for the affront that Darius had suffered at the hands of the Greeks at Marathon (490 BC). The impressionable Xerxes gave way to pressure from his entourage and threw himself into patient diplomatic and military preparations for war, which required three years to complete (484-481 BC)
It’s a freaking movie, folks. Entertainment…
Confusing this Xerxes with the historical Xerxes is like comparing Hogan’s Heroes with the real WW2 German Prison camp It just don’t work if you use some very minor thought…
Move on, dude.
“…is there any difference between the makers of this movie and Ahmadinejad?”
Oh DO get over yourself!
Yes, there’s an enormous difference. The makers of the movie were, uhm, making a movie. A fantasy. A caricature. Ahmadinejad is destroying a country and a culture, and trying to take the rest of the world with it.
If Xerxes was as pathetically impressionable as is claimed here, then he deserves the treatment he got in 300.
If I may paraphrase Jack Aubrey:
“The simple fact is, you were soundly beaten.”
Given the emphasis the Greek story is given in the West (the Cradle of Democracy and all of that), it’s refreshing to hear something from the Persian side. Movies are not JUST movies, they reflect prevailing mythology. It’s good to know that Persian culture has a long tradition that is quite at odds with the version the Mullahs provide.
My high school’s sports teams were named for the Spartans and we never learned that those noble Greeks left unwanted babies on the hillside to be ravaged by wolves. To paraphrase Disraeli, the Persians were
preparing the way for human rights when the English-speaking people were still painting themselves blue.
Careful, you might bring on the whining of the Republican-Americans.
Oh dear, it looks like it’s already happened.
I believe you miss the point -
Either this is a fantasy comic book movie, in which case no resemblance to reality is needed, or, this is a political statement of some sort.
If it is a political statement of some sort, it is one designed to portray our enemies as evil and those that fight them as noble.
And, it is designed to appeal to the young ‘uns, with the Good vs. Evil theme in mind.
This is Good, if true.
This is very good.
Why would you want to complain about that?
I think you’ve just gone to the other extreme. You’ve written an apologetic for a king and his invasion, by saying how great the father and the grandfather was. I think you’ve lost sight of the fact that empires don’t become empires just by sitting around letting cities willingly join them or not. The bare fact does remain the Persians tried to conquer the Greeks. Saying that Greeks themselves are responsible for the invasion against them is a little too close to saying rape victims invite their own assault. Greeks in the empire convinced the king? Alright, well how did THOSE Greeks become part of the empire? Peacefully and free of compulsion? I’m betting the answer is no. The decision was still the king’s, right? Who cares if he allows people to live as they want, after they kneel to him? That’s actually kind of the whole theme of the “300″ movie.
I realize the movie is absolutely ridiculous in its portrayal, but don’t fall into the same trap when opposing it.
I’m sure the Persian Empire made great contributions to human civilation along the same veins as the Roman, Chinese, Egyptian and so forth.
This movie proves that ignorance and incompetence still exist in the film industry!
We can play these ‘my dad can beat up your dad’ games until the cows come home. The fact is, the film kicked ass, even had the villian been psycho ninjas from hell, which there very may have been a few in there. Am I a fanboy for having said that? Who cares?
Perhaps Herodotus had a sympathetic view of Perisa; however, there are dozens of ancient Greek authors who took the view that it was simply a despotism, particularly since religious tolerance was not particularly remarkable until the eras of Christian dominance via Constantinople and under Islam. Moreover, the Spartans and Athenians and other Greeks who were offered the choice to pay fealty or face invasion may perhaps be forgiven for not having taken the view of Persia offered by the author. The movie is, after all, told from the perspective of the Greeks, whose victories here and slightly later quite obviously led to the Golden Era from which Europeans and then Americans self-consciously traced their intellectual origins. If Persia was so great, and I have no doubt at all there were great things about it, perhaps instead of attacking 300 these energetic people could get together and write, produce, film, and distribute a great epic film about the glories of ancient Persia – or Persia of any of its other many important periods. That would probably go further to soften whatever blow 300 is imagined to have dealt, and would also enlighten a public who has little opinion of Iran outside of its current regime, and more generally simply educate us all on a subject that is – if Amazon.com is any indication – actually not treated in a way that’s all that accessible.
The goals of globalization would be much better served, as probably would the interests of security, if instead of rising in righteous anger people would instead channel that competitive spirit into cultural creations, as I fondly and probably wrongly imagine they once did. So c’mon Persians! Your chicks are hot! Let’s see a movie!
An artist has all the rights to illustrate and to question conventional wisdom of a society. Even to undermind values and belief of a society. However, in this case, the artist needs to ask him/herself this vital question that when someone like Xerxes or Khashayar Shah {which means He ruled Heros, and also it is an Azeri name}who is name was mentioned in the Holy Bible as a Just Ruler to what extend this 300 Spartan could challange facts? Quite frankly, those lovers of art and classical history will do own research and will find out that this 300 Spartan had no reflection to reality, and the Artist of 300 Spartan will be in shame.
On the other hand, Xerxes went home from the wars and lead a life of luxury, and was assasinated because of it.
Like other great “empires”, the point was that if you were a rich philosopher, you would enjoy the Persian Empire. Ditto for rich sexy women. But peasants were zilch. No rights. Pointing out that rich women married to men had power is nonsense. Doesn’t mean the average woman wasn’t veiled.
If you were a stubborn Greek Peasant, you’d up and man the boats at Salamis.
And if you were a woman, you’d prefer to live in Sparta, where women had equality.
And if you were a slave, bummer. No one treated you very well.
What a baby. ‘Wa, wa, waaaaaaaaaaaaa. Xerces was good. He was not a robot. Waaaaaaaaaa.’
300 is a movie based on a comic book. A COMIC BOOK!! If the director was selling this as a reliable version of the historical events you may have something to complain about.
Grow up, you victim.
I’m pro American,so dont get this wrong. but its funny when majority of people in the US dont know their own history, companies like WB now seem interested in outher nations’. Frank Miller was a cartoonist after all, NOT an intellectual, he better stick to what he knows: drawing, and leaves history to the experts. i bet Frank Miller came up with the book only after a shallow skim over the history. go on about what you wanna say, but that disgusting homo looking freak with all those piercings in his FACE, is far from an image of XERCES the GREAT.if frank miller or director needed imagination/inspiration,they couldve used the history and change the names for their own version, but when you enter a territory that doesnt belong to you (history as opposed to POP Culture), you better be honest, or else its just a CHEAP movie with lots of Special Effects. its disgustingly cheap. that book is cheap too. after all who reads all those comic books these days? bunch of 40 year olds who have the brain of a 10 year old.
“Being unusually democratic and tolerant for the era, the ancient Persians did not interfere with the religion, social life, and habits of conquered nations.”
Then you must be a big fan of the United States setting out to conquer large swaths of territory which we don’t possess now, eh?
My dear fiend Ardi has made all the right points. Shame on Warner Brothers for distorting the truth.
When a movie is based on fiction character names are to be fictitious as well. What would you think if names of American historical figures were used instead of king Xrexes? Maybe Lincoln or Washington? I know as an American I would still sign petitions and voice my opinion on not defaming real historical characters in cheap rubbish movies such as 300.
This is a film based on a graphic novel type comic book as I understand it. I have not seen the movie, but it would seem that any movie with war rhino’s is not necessarily based on historical accuracy.
it seems like everybody is going blind about Iran and its history,including Hollywood film makers.unfortunatly,these days the sky is dark and cloudy about Iran beacause of a brutal and fanatic regim of Islamic people.But, were are the desent and formative film makers? have they also been executed by Islamic regim!?
What has happend to the formative and knowledgabel film makers in Hollywood? Have they also been executed by the mulla’s regim of Iran!?
If this film was to be made in Bangeladesh, we would have seen a better out come. I feel sorry for Hollywood as much as my sorrow for the brutal regim in Iran. Farthermore,please tell us, from what garbage can did the 300 makers found their informations?
To those people who miss the point and complain about the criticism: if you’re going to make a fantasy, why must you twist history and do it during very tense times, something that has gross repercussions for the whole world? At a tense time like this when Iran and Iranians are under attack because of the despotic regime that happens to be sucking its blood, twisting history so blatantly only poisons the mind of an American public that’s most ignorant of its own history, let alone the 2500 year old history of another country. I bet Jews (and other civilized people with a conscience) wouldn’t have appreciated a movie in 1939 by Hitler in which Moses was portrayed as a racist, sexist, perverted, blood thirsty jackass. The Jews would have rightly identified the movie as a very threatening piece of propaganda meant to influence the mind of the public and would have vehemently objected to the twisting of their history. Imagine if a German would have told a Jew then “hey dude, relax, this is just a movie.” The fact of the matter is that Germans DID make propangda movies in which Jews were portrayed as parasidic and menacing, and we all know what happened afterward.
Take that example and apply it to your own ethnic group at a critical junture of history and see if you like it.
I wonder what happened to responsible film makers in Hollywood.
Are they all dead.? Furthermore,tell
us where the hell the filam maker
got his information.?
H.Afhsar
Very well put.
Movies like 300, alexandre and … etc shows the ignorance and stupidity on part of hollywood. Well, they are ignorant about every thing else too, for instance, the war in Iraq or the war on terrorism. These are loonie leftists with no clue about others.
Mazda, by invoking the Nazis, you’ve rendered all further conversation in this thread moot.
That being said, and to beat a dead horse, I am creeped out by the author’s flight of high dudgeon. Arian says, “But is there any difference between the makers of this movie and Ahmadinejad? They are both blind to the truth. Brainwashing is wrong whether done by communists, Islamo-Fascists, or Warner Brothers. The intentions may be different, but the results are the same. Obscuring history and slandering a great civilization is an undeniable sin, and an intolerable offense by any standard.”
The author seems not to be able to tell the subtle and nuanced difference between a slavering thug eager to nuke Israel off the map, unleash terror on the Great Satan, and crush internal dissent into a bloody puddle, and… a bunch of creatives who made a sword-and-sandal pic about a far-distant event, which is designed to delight 13-year-old boys. That’s Ahmadinejad versus the “300″ team, if you’re struggling to keep track.
Further: Brainwashing is such a loaded word. But not as loaded as “fascists” and “communists”! Wow, who knew that the “300″ folks were in cahoots with a massive conspiracy among government and media to destroy the populace’s ability to discern present-day Iranians from thong-wearing, homoerotic sword jockeys? Why, I do believe my mind is washed, hung out to dry, and smelling springtime fresh. No more resistance. I will obey my Bushbot robotic monstrosity! Tell me what else to think, High Lord Warner.
But HERE is the part that actually disturbs me. Listen to this language. It is “an undeniable sin” to slander a great civilization. And it’s “an intolerable offense by any standard.” Well! If this offense, this sin, is so intolerable, what are you going to do about it? Write a few mildly annoyed paragraphs? Or is this a call to… something? Arms? More angry words? Censorship? Blacklisting the “300″ production team? If it is truly intolerable to you, are you going to therefore feel a need to stalk the lead actors to make them pay for being part of such a monstrosity? (Oh, wait, better not: they’re pretty buff and might take you down.) And if it’s “intolerable,” would you really find it upsetting if someone else had the same thought and used this movie as a pretext for violence toward non-Persians? That’s what “intolerable” means, doesn’t it?
And, by the way, were you there? How do you know that your mental picture of Xerxes is more accurate than the filmmmakers’? Would you prefer he was pictured more like a beturbaned mullah, or perhaps as a smiling and schoolteacherish genocidal maniac? Now, that would make for some great TV.
Telling us how fascistic, intolerable, sinful, and slanderous it is for filmmakers to portray ancient Persians in an unflattering way is just the sort of rhetoric that I don’t like. Offense isn’t something you give, it’s something you take, and I am utterly tired of hearing about today’s unutterably horrid offense being perpetrated by a godless (or Christianist) West against the poor, helpless, victim Other.
So if you don’t like the movie’s portrayal of Xerxes, make your own damn movie. But don’t tell them to sit down and shut up. Because then I might get offended.
It’s a movie based on a comic book and doesn’t claim to be an historical documentary.
I’d rather watch entertainment which knows it is fiction than to endure one second of useful idiot propaganda which tries to pass itself as ‘truth’
As in An Inconvenient Truth, Fahrenheit 9/11, The North Country, Syriana, Munich just to name a few thousand Hollywood agitprop creations
To Liberal and Iranian detractors of 300, here’s the bottom line:
- It happened 2400yrs ago…. build a bridge and get yourselves over it.
- Lead by the Spartans and with help of a brilliant politician and commander Themistocles, Greece united to preserve its language ideals and its rising faculties of inquiry. An inquiry of the world that still remains with us today. The manner in which they did it, how they succeeded is for people and especially Historians to marvel at. That the seeds of democracy were born as a result of their victory – again to many detractors get over it. It is fait accompli.
- The Spartans didn’t destroy Persia, another ancient Greek 150yrs later brought the civilization to its knees, Megas Alexandros. You have a real historical gripe with the ancient Greeks then blame Alexander, not the Spartans or Athenians. You just got your egos beat from them at Thermopolyae, Salamis and Platea.
- The Zoastrians of which many ancient Persians were, are on the verge of extinction in modern day Iran. I wonder why? Clue.. starts with I ends in slam. How Iranian mullahs can shout and cry like babies about the depiction of ancient Persians in 300 yet persecute their legitimate descendants who number in the tens of thousands today is beyond ridiculous… if I may steal a quote from 300, it’s madness!
It’s almost as silly as when liberals say they support the troops but amongst themselves regard them as vermin and mercenaries. It’s almost as wrong as when liberals say they care about Iraqis, entrust themselves as the only enlightened compassionate beings in the world yet are happy to jettison them to death squads and radicals islamists… and then declare such an outcome positive, victorious??????
- And finally it took a movie, yes a fantastical movie on a BIG screen for liberal critics and unhinged liberals in general to realize they have no nads. Hoo rah about time, and thank you Frank Miller for awakening them to this self realization!!
On the matter of H’wood, I believe most of 300 was shot and produced in Montreal. CGI was also sourced from Germany and Australia. Yes Warner Bros funded it, and they will reap much of the proceeds, of which going by H’woods track record will then help fund some other ignoramus ex-pollie who armed with power point presentations will declare the sky is falling also…
If we may blame H’wood for anything it’d be their lack of courage for so long a time to depict bravery and honour. BDS (bush derangement syndrome) is easy, it’s not hard, to attack a leader in a free society and know you will live to do it again and again is a cinch. What takes real honour and courage liberals will always be clueless of, yet feel tested by and uneasy about it nonetheless… the substance of that last stand by the Spartans and the PC outcry over 300 proves this.
T’is time to grow some nads dear libs i.e. if you want to survive in a modern day world of madness that is ever encroaching. The problems of the middle east may seem a gazillion miles away to unhinged libtard agendas, but know a Caliphate is on the cards. Be prepared not with banners or protest slogans they really don’t compare to kevlar and war smarts. The moment you finally realize it takes real grunt to win and save the day will be the day you take your first strides in the real world – in all its technicolour and brutal honesty.
To the people agreeing with the main point of this article: have you not seen or heard of recent movies like Syriana? Lord of War? Alexander? Kingdom of Heaven? How about Good Night, and Good Luck? The same arguments the author makes about 300 could be applied to these movies, except in reverse. And unlike 300, which is full of fantasy elements and is based on a COMIC BOOK, some of the films listed above were meant by their creators to be taken seriously.
I guess the bottom line is, if you were expecting historical accuracy or honesty from Hollywood, well, good luck with that.
It seems that some people don’t like the idea of a movie showing men putting freedom above all else, even their own lives. They must think it is better to run away, or to betray?
> if you were expecting historical accuracy or honesty from Hollywood, well, good luck with that.
I second that comment.
Whenever a historical incident is displayed on the screen, you can almost guarantee that what you see isn’t exactly what happened.
That can be because the story didn’t fit the standard mold, and had to be bent to match the presumed audience’s expectations (the slightly cheery end to “Tucker”), or because screenwriters wish to be considered “creative” and therefore must create incidents which never happened (William Wallace fathering the future king of England in “Braveheart”), or because the screenwriters had a political motive (all the movies mentioned by “susan”).
So enjoy “historical” movies, or boycott them – just don’t insist that they be accurate, because it ain’t gonna happen.
When I read the great article by Ardeshir Arian and then the comments under it , it made me sad and was painful that how a country like Iran with her glorious ancient history has been taken over by a bunch of savage Mullahs who are pretending to represent the great nation of Iran. I do not see any fault from regular people of the free world to make such a great mistake and see us as a bunch of terrorists as long as this Regime represent us. But when it comes to some organizations it makes it different. Last year the Hollywood movie factory made a film “Alexander” by Mr. Oliver Stone, he ignorantly disregards all the facts of history regarding the Persian Empire and insulted nation of Iran, there was some complains but nothing serious happened, Now by an ignorant irresponsible film company they go that far to the extend of completely destroying our heritage and history just in order to make money and take advantage of the present situation. If the Warner Brothers authorities and The director of the movie had been just listened to their President who has repeatedly separated the Mullahs Regime with the people of Iran and has praised the history and great civilization of our nation, they would have not done such a ridiculous job. It is a shame that Film industry these days is completely taken over by politics , we could see it during this year Academy Award. Film Industry is one of the most effective media in mind managing so they have great responsibility in directing the mind of their audience and not merely being controlled by money and politics. The last word is :
Iran and Iranians are not the image that has been given to the free world by a Theoretical , Anti Human Regime who has taken over our country and our nation for the past 28 years. Iran and Iranian with the richest heritage and civilization will rise again and will be back to the rightful place like before and the shame will stay for those who did not distinguish it.
Firouzeh Ghaffarpour
Since I mentioned ; Film Industry as a Medium of ” Media , the Mind Manging” and we know who control the Media !!!! I have to second Mazda in his comparison.No offend of course!!
Firouzeh
I know I am going to get attacked for this one but here it goes.
As an Iranian who has great respect for the persian civilization and culture I strongly believe that we are channelling our energy in the wrong direction by attacking this movie. We are living at a time when the real threat to our culture and civilization is not holywood but its the Islamic Regime. For the past 27 years they have done everything to try to destroy our history from changing our flag, to forcing us to learn arabic and trying their hardest to ban our cultural holidays such as Norouz and Charshambe Souri. Yet here we are attacking a movie that has not claimed in any way to be a documentary or an accurate depiction of history.
I have great respect for Mr. Ardeshi and I am in no way trying to attack him or minimize his work or article. But I believe that this is the time to focus ALL of our energy on our real enemy.
When we have reached our goal of a free and democratic Iran then we can afford to focus on things like this but right now is the wrong time.
As Mr. Arian has mentioned there are 2 active petitions regarding this issue which are in the top 25 most popular online petitions. I find this disturbing when there are so many people inside Iran who need our help and the signitures on these petitions, yet we are not able to deliver.
I don’t want to make this post any longer then necessary but to conclude yes the depiction of the Persians in this movie is not accurate, but the movie is based on a comic book and is not a historic documentary. Lets not forget who the real enemy of persian civilization and culture is and fight the greater evil first before starting these small battles.
Setareh
History is altered all the time. The director and writer never have been exceptional twisting the story producing 300.
Creating a fiction is understandable but mixing it with part of the history to gain momentum for MONEY indeed resembles taking children from their mothers creating some savage worriers, while scratching the back of some elements who are categorized as infamous Axis of Evil.
The world history, according to the Herodotus, Tacitus, and some historians of 17th Century such as Charles de Secondat, although their works do not meet the modern standards of impartiality and objectivity but they attest to the right side of the history when time is right for them to tell.
This movie is a transparent side taking with Spartan eugenics, and laughably side taking with Islamic values that emerged only some 1000 years after battle of Thermopylae.
Aryans (Persians) never was monsters and freaks. There is not evidence that Xerxes was eight feet tall, using body piercing, disfigured. The director mixed up the Islamic era with pre Jesus when had to choose the outfit. The producer and the writer, strongly implied Xerxes is homosexual, his army consists of colored savage men. This resembles frequent targets of Hollywood style comedy, taken back into the Athenian era painting insincere Spartans as Hollywood accustomed to. Hollywood did this to the President of the United States in several times, conducting the same to other nations for MONEY is no exception.
While history attests that Xerxes treated women warriors, as well as Naval personnel, equally with men, noteworthy abuse of history, in this 300, the Persians are turned into monsters. Xerxes ambassador portrayed as ugly person with black skin shocked to see Greeks are simply all too human having a woman in their side in the palace(!!).
There is no mention of treason in the Xerxes fleet who earlier defected to the Persians causing Iranians defeat in the second round of the battle. According to Herodotus, Leonidas led an army of perhaps 7,000 Greeks. These Greeks took turns rotating to the front of the phalanx stationed at Thermopylae, they held the narrow pass for two days. All told, some 4,000 Greeks perished there. In 300 the fighting is not in the hoplite fashion, and the fictions goes beyond imagination creating over 200,000 -2,000,000 warriors in the Xerxes side, not to mention all being work of computerized visual effect. The writer nor the producer neither director logically asked themselves this simple question; Logistic of such population including their horses, transportation not to mention feeding and communication makes the 300 fiction far beyond worthy of seeing in the theatre or renting when hit the video stores.
In Herodotus’ time there were various accounts of what transpired, but we know 700 hoplites remained fighting beside the Spartans, they, too, dying to the last man.
There is no mention, in 300 of the fact that at the same time a vastly outnumbered fleet led by Athenians was holding the Xerxes army in the straits adjacent to Thermopylae. This would wreck 300′s credibility resembling an historic production rather a baseless Fiction that Hollywood accustomed to.
To set the record right we all (Iranians) bound going to this page, leaving some comments speaking to the none Iranians proving the right side of the history.
Dear Setareh ,
With agreeing in all you said about our greatest enemy “The Islamic Regime” and all the damages has done to our culture and history, I have to tell you the Iranian nationalists around the world has not forgotten their fight against the real enemy of Iran, but we should not forget other matters !! That is exactly happened when the movie “Alexander ” was released . We know this movie is based on a comic book , we know that is not a documentary, …., unfortunately this fact has been mentioned by several and I think Ardeshir as a film maker is completely aware of that ,but the names are real, the timing is wrong. Don’t you think it should have at least carry different names rather than our great kings and great nation ?Believe me Ardeshir and the rest of us have our focus on our fight against the present Barbaric Islamic Regime of Iran.
STOP Showing the History of our great home IRAN the way usa CIA and British MI6 wants and show the real facts and history, OR WE (IRANIANS0)WILL FORCE YOU TO DO SO.
Ignorance of history is nothing new. Worst, filmmakers that deride a GREAT CIVILIZATION only because of the current Islamo-Fascist regime in Iran, show their ignorance and seem not to realize that the Islamic regime is the exact opposite of the Persian empire.
Xerxes was a heroic figure, and so were Cyrus and Dariush. Doesn’t Mr. Miller know that it was Cyrus, NOT Alexander, who freed the Jews from slavery in Babylon and that the Persians NEVER enslaved conquered peoples?
Doesn’t he know that Cyrus issued the first Declaration of Human Rights?
Whenever they went, the Greeks enslaved and tyrannized peoples.
If you need to know more, just ask our Jewish friends, who are well aware of how humane the Persians were.
Also, let us not forget that the Persians fought the Islamic invasion, and the female warriors were among the main fighters.
As a non-Iranian who loves the Persian culture and civilization, I join in boycotting this propaganda movie.
Long Live Iran
Down with the Islamic Republic.
No to the violation of Iran’s Territorial Integrity.
This move is certainly produced to make money, first, and then possibly provides some entertainment, assuming no political motives and biased views were the driving force as well. Based on these two primary objectives, its writers and producers distorted history and historical characters to overcome their own lack of creativity. Obviously, ethics and credibility were not the issues for them. I think a core question here is that whether this movie indirectly promotes bigotry and intolerance. Obviously someone thought so; otherwise the whole controversy would not have begun.
outstanding comment by Robert: “I guess the bottom line is, if you were expecting historical accuracy or honesty from Hollywood, well, good luck with that.”
I also completely agree with Setareh’s comment about where the focus of Iranians should be. I believe that raising objections against this or any other movie will just make them more attractive and serves the main purpose of film makers whcih is making more money! No matter what we say here, for those who are after the historical facts and not fantasy, movies are not the best source. There has always been misrepresentation of facts by different parties on different issues and this will not stop after this movie or even the next one of the same sort! It is good to take a note that historical facts might have been misrepresented in a book, a movie or an article but dragging the issue too far will not serve any purpose in that direction.
like Setareh put it very well our main priority is to put an end to this 1400 years of misery by focusing on the Terrorist Mullahs not on some illiterate Holly wood cowboys because if only these morons in HOLLYWOOD understood the real History ,they would make a film about how those Savage Monster ARABS by invading great ,Advanced and civilized IRAN with a population of around 140000000 they destroyed the Birthplace of Civilization as we know today ,i mean in which civilization they can remember pregnant Women were entitled to full state benefit for the full 9 month or every citizen would have free education throughout the Empire -free medical care -free insurance even for foreign workers and so on.Yes we had the most advanced social system more than 3000 years ago while the so called civilized West were living in caves.
Anyway we must get united and fight against this barbaric and evil ISLAM and their representative :The MULLAHS .
this is the entertainment world. the history class is the next door. plz don’t bother! we don’t teach history here!
Please read the following 2 excellent articles and decide for yourself:
THE TRUTH BEHIND ’300′ – Persia’s 9/11 By Director Cyrus Kar
http://activistchat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=30740#30740
Herotodus The Father Of History, Or The Father Of Lies? By AmirN
http://activistchat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=30741#30741
my comment towards this huge non correct film that has no base to reality except filling up some pockets in hollywood isthat
If you are making a fictional movie like they do every day then don’t involve history that you are claiming otherwise.
If you are making a film of this kind ,you can not consider it a comic,you should put your documents in front of you before you even start playing with nationalities.
every time they make movies on germans and jews they always either exagerate or no talk against the jews.
tell me if this is the case in hollywood then stop giving wrong information on Iranians worldwide.Iwonder who you guys are supporting by doing this.
to me you are trying to destroy Irans heritage and culture with non reality you are feeding to world
Everyone..listen to me..get a life! This movie is nothing more than a cartoon.Nothing more and nothing less. It most certainly is not history and can only be treated as such by those who do not care to actually read the primary sources – and read them with a very critical eye since, for the most part, the primary source is Herodotus who, no doubt, had every reason to portray my Greek forefathers in the best possible light and the Persians as barbarians. The movie is nothing but rockem-sockem, violent, brain dead, entertainment.It’s just perfect for American audiences and twelve year olds of all ages.
While Thermopylae is indeed a worthy historical example of men fighting heroically against a foreign invader, it is, nevertheless, not the exclusive example. In my small life alone, I have seen other Thermopylaes: Vietnam and Iraq are but some recent examples.
But, merely to recapitulate lest we forget: 300 is just a dumb cartoon -not history.
STOP Showing the History of our great home IRAN the way usa CIA and British MI6 wants and show the real facts and history, OR WE (IRANIANS0)WILL FORCE YOU TO DO SO.—-FARSHAD BON
Now that comment really convinced me to see things more clearly. And they say ‘irony’ is dead.
Some of the leaders of ‘ancient’ Persia may indeed have been enlightened for their time periods. Clearly nowadays—- not so much.
But this is a MOVIE, folks. Get a grip on your lives. If all it takes is a stupid ‘cartoon’ MOVIE to bring the whole Iranian House down, then perhaps there is something seriously wrong with the house. And there IS.
The ‘angst’ demonstrated here about a MOVIE is just sort of ‘sad’. No wonder Iran has the leadership it now possesses.
Straight down the tubes from Darius it now appears.
Pity.
ARE YOU PEOPLE ESTUPID OR SOMETHING, THIS IS MOVIE NOT HISTORY BOOK, YOU THINK ANYBODY WATCHING THIS MOVIE IS THINK THERE IS A TWELVE FOOT IRANIAN WHO IS WITH A CHAIN ON NECK WITH A SWORD WHO IS KILLING EVERYBODY WITH ONE PUNCH….OR IS THE IRANIAN FORCES OF KHODABEHAMORZE XERES HAVE SHARP TEETH LIKE A WOLF, AND EAT THE GREEK KEBAB….GET A LIFE ….WE HAVE OUR PEOPLE DYING IN IRAN AND YOU GUYS PLAYING ON COMPUTER ABOUT A CARTOON MOVIE….NAJESTA….I BET HALF OF YOU PEOPLE WRITING ABOUT THIS MOVIE HAVE NOT EVEN SEE IT….YOU GUYS ARE THE SAME AS THE IRANIAN REGIME YOU TALK BAD ABOUT….THEY DONT READ THE BOOK ….THEY GO KILL THE GUY WRITE THE BOOK
Hey, Persian apologists! Get over yourselves. The Spartans and the battle portrayed in the 300 are remembered 2400 years later as the epitome of courage, duty and sacrifice. You can whine all you want about Xeres “enlightenment” and his fair treatment of his subjugated lands, but doing so is a ridiculous display. Face it, the free citizens that populated the Spartan ranks made mincemeat of Xeres’ enslaved troops until sheer numbers alone overwhelmed the Spartans, Thebians and others who stood at the pass in opposition.
I can’t wait for Hollywood to make a movie about the mullahs of Iran, frankly all this 300 controversy is a waste of time. A movie about Khomeinism yeah, libs would be queuing for days to see that!! You know all that hate-America and America is the great satan rhetoric is right up their alley. They could even fast forward to Kerry’s “the USA is a pariah” speech which most likely be met with a standing ovation from liberal attendees. I’m thinking Nancy could make a cameo appearance also wouldn’t that be great!?? It have to be in a burqa of course, don’t want to offend the mullahs now do we.. pc remember. It has blockbuster written all over it! I’m thinking Hollywood would need more than the latest cgi to portray the mullahs in good light then again having become accustomed to Democ-rat treachery, I’m guessing many libs will probably be disappointed by the screenplay, that is for not being scathing and hateful enough of their own nation.
Iranian Renaissance Starts With Learning About Truth, Past, Present and Reject Ignorance
1) Please remember few ignorant top executive at Warner Bros. and director of 300 who are responsible for insulting Persians out of ignorance are not representing the USA nor elites of Jews .. as the Islamic Clerical Taazi invaders and occupiers of Iran are not considered as Iranians.
2) Please avoid any insults out of angers which is against both Iranians and Americans code of ethics. Ignorance and lack of awareness is the source of many problems.
3) Top Harvard University Scholar Professor Richard Nelson Frye death and said “Iranian is a culture.” In his will, Professor Frye has expressed his wish to be buried next to Zayandeh-rud in Isfahan. Two other American Iranologists, Arthur Pope and Phyllis Ackerman, are already buried there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Nelson_Frye
4) United we stand for cultural Toleration, Free society, Secular Democracy, Free Iran, Human Rights based on Good Thoughts, Good Words, and Good Deeds.
5) The biggest enemies of our time are ignorance and greed.
6) To fight back please support financially the true documentary In Search Of Cyrus The Great to increase the USA public awareness.
7)For more points regarding Iranian Renaissance please visit :
http://activistchat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8074
I just wanted to say that I respect history and all cultures’ history although I saw and enjoyed the movie. I don’t think I was brainwashed into believing that this movie represented history and upon exiting the theater I did not begin thinking about “awful Persians,” in fact this movie did nothing except make me think how these Spartans didn’t look Greek. I truely hope that people around the world can learn to get along. There is so much to learn from one another instead of trying as hard as we can to find fault in each others actions. I am an American, is that ok?
Persia’s 9/11:
In 498 BCE, Athens carried out a terrorist attack on Sardis, a major Persian city, which made 9/11 seem like child’s play. Aristagoras, an Athenian, set fire to the “outlying parts” of Sardis trapping most of its population “in a ring of fire.” (Herodotus 5:101)
More innocent civilians died at the hands of Aristagoras than Osama bin Laden could ever hope to kill. And just as most of the world supported America’s retaliation against Al Qaeda, so did it rally in support of Persia’s attack on Athens.
The Spartans were not even targets of Persia’s attack, until they violated a universal protocol by killing a Persian messenger who Herodotus claims was asking for Sparta’s submission but in reality was probably sent by Persia’s king, Xerxes to convey the same message George Bush sent to the entire world after 9/11: “you’re either with us, or against us.”
The Spartans were Greek Jihadists who lived only to die. They were by all accounts ruthless savages who murdered Greek slaves known as “Helots” just for sport, cultivated a culture of thievery and rape, and practiced infanticide, as the movie ’300′ rightly points out in its opening scenes. Sparta was not even democratic. It was an oligarchy at best. Despite knowing all this, the West continues to hail the Spartans as the saviors of Western democracy.
Yes, the Spartans died fighting a foreign invader. But so do countless Iraqi insurgents, yet few of us would consider them good guys. Those who do are then not much different from Westerners who cheer for the Spartans. Rooting for the Spartans merely because they were underdogs, is like rooting for Osama bin Laden today.
To SK: So you’re saying the Nazies didn’t have an active propaganda machine which also utilized film to propagate race superiority? Or are you suggesting the only time one is allowed to “invoke” them is when you see fit, such as in reference to A-nejad? And you further are saying whatever lies they say about your culture, your people, your history, it’s perfectly alright, and rather than objecting to the source of the lies we just grin and bear it and at best go make our own movie??? Huh???? Are you for real?
Either way, you don’t have the power, the intellect, the argument, the facts or anything to declare moot anything that has been said here. I’ll say it whether you like it or not. The rest of your post puts your ignorance of history on display. I have seen the movies like “Birth of a Nation” in which blacks were portayed as savage murderers who could only be saved by the brave and chivalrous KKK?? Do you think you could actually make that movie today and tell blacks to shut up and accept it and go make their own movies if they like? Even if they took your childish advice, do you think it would help if blacks made their own racist movies to counter what was done to them? How ignorant.
Your point about “portraying ancient Persians in an unflattering way is just the sort of rhetoric that I don’t like” is a laugh. Frankly, who cares what you like. The point is you’re missing the point. Nobody is complaining about portraying anyone in an “unflattering way”. The complaints are about taking historical facts and blatantly twisting, distoring, and turning them so upside down so grotesquely is beyond offensive. No minority would sit idly by and take such distortions quietly. As much as you’d like for the rest of browns to sit down and shut up, take the advice yourself and stop telling us to like lies. You go like lies about your people, and I’m beginning to have a clue who those people are. Racists.
The making of 300 in such way, i.e by distorting the history just proves the point that Ahmadinejad is not on his own and has found yet another lunatic as an ally: The Warner Bros!! Ahmadinejad distorts the history by denying the holocaust and Warner Bros by denying the greatness of the Persian empire and portraying the Persians as monsters! Isn’t this a tit for tat tactic? The problem is though, that Ahmadinejad is an ignorant charlatan and his remarks as a politician can only be laughed at but for Warner Bros to retaliate in such way is just shooting themselves in the foot! Very foolish and irresponsible towards the great nation of Iran.
The future will tell!
Inaccuracies in the movie? (Reading note: please read the next line in a Sam Kinison voice–you know, very loud, with great exasperation): HEY 300 BASHERS THE MOVIE’S BASED ON A STINKIN’ COMIC BOOK GRAPHIC NOVEL FOR GOD’S SAKE YOU BLITHERING BAMBOONS! (Please end Sam Kinison voice before proceeding, thank you).
So I guess the Oscar for best ‘documentary’ is out?
In related news similar questions about accuracy have been raised about ‘Spiderman III’…
Seriously… If you can’t trust comic books to document the historical record how will you know to vote the straight (D)emocrat ticket?
XERXES By Darius KADIVAR:
From interview with Mr. Darius KADIVAR
This sad trend is being continued in a new Spartan-centric film about the Battle of Thermopylae ( Warner Bros 300 ), which is factually flawed to the point of being downright offensive. The movie’s logline claims it retells the account of how three-hundred Spartan soldiers drew the line in the sand, defending democracy against Xerxes’ million-man army. The numbers are laughable and the premise of the story is backwards. It implies that Xerxes was attempting to enslave Greece under Persian tyranny. Wrong. The war was initially sparked by what was viewed by the Persians as an unprovoked attack against the empire, perpetrated by the Athenians. Furthermore, according to Herodotus himself, the Persians supported democracies in the northern Hellas, while the Spartans imposed oligarchies.
In fact, I believe, had Greece allied itself with Persia, democracy might have flourished faster, because the grueling Pelopponesian War, fought between Sparta and Athens, would have been averted. Sadly, it wasn’t. The Spartans prevailed, overthrew the ‘democratic’ Athenian leadership and replaced it with…that’s right…an oligarchic regime. Please visit: http://www.payvand.com/news/07/mar/1199.html
Yes. yes yes… Cyrus A, this war was a result of the Athenian support of the Ionian revolt and the later burning of Sardis.
But, for goodness sake, what does any of that have to do with a comic book and THIS movie.
Again… move on…
I’m sure JFK by Stone was accurate in its characterization of the key players and the truth surrounding each action of 22 Nov 1963.
I’m sure The Alamo, with its star-studded cast, captured the angst, heroism, legacy of my ancestors and the facts of history.
I’m sure Passion of the Christ not only got the language perfect, but the Jewish social and moral facts about this time in history–not to forget their clothing–with picture perfect accuracy.
I’m sure Stone got it right a second time with Alexander, as well. Snakes, sex and spectacle were the order of the day as the world was conquered.
I’ve yet to meet anyone who goes to the movies with the intent of learning historical or scientific fact (just look how popular “An Inconvenient Truth” is). Commentary such as this says more about the author’s sensibilities and ‘victimhood’ than it does about a Hollywood pulp film.
To KeithP and all the others who are bothered by our complaints: You move on. OK? Don’t tell us how to react. If you don’t get it after all that has gone on in the recent past you’re either ignorant or malicious. This is NOT about a comic book or a movie. This is about how the media as a whole keeps piling on grossly distorted views of a population in movie after movie after movie after tv show after book after right wing radio show and so on. The reaction that you see is the eruption of the frustration of the masses who have been maligned for decades and don’t care to take it any longer. Obviously taking all those movies as “just a movie” didn’t make them go away. With every new movie they get bolder and more fraudulant. You don’t get it and for some reason you want to get the rest of us to “move on” and be OK with the massive misrepresentation from all the media outlets. What is it to you that some of us are venting our outrage? You don’t like these complaints, stop reading them and MOVE ON instead of trying to force us to like the crap with your ignorant reasoning.
Same with the rest of the “this is just a movie” gang. I challenge you to play “Birth of a Nation” in an African-American neighborhood and then stand in front of the theater and dare to tell the outraged African-Americans to “move on”. During a not-too-distant, more racist time in America they freely showed those movies and contributed to the racism. It took decades of activism to wipe some of that kind of institutional racism toward African Americans but many other races are still fair game because we have shut up for too long.
I challenge you to tell all the Native Americans who took years of Hollywood’s utterly racist cowboy movies to “move on”, because “all the movies in which you’re savages and we the white folks are the civilized ones who like to massacre millions of your folks coz you gots land that we wants” and expect a once proud and harmonious people to not take offence at the disgusting spectacle put up for the entertainment of the popcorn chomping movie goers who have no clue what a mockery of a monumental tragedy they’re watching.
Stop trying to prove that nobody goes to see a movie for historical accuracy BECAUSE THAT’S NOT THE POINT!!!! It’s the inherent racism throughout the media that’s the issue, the kind of racism that takes a historical event and twists it as a political hammer to further beat down a people already under duress. If I make a movie in which I use your name, phone number, address, family lineage, a few things that did really happen, and then show that your mother is banging a dog I’m sure you’d be outraged to see that in the theaters even though “nobody goes to a movie for its historical accuracy”, because all the masses who go see the movie will question your mother’s chastity regardless of whether she bangs dogs or not.
It’s Hollywood stupid!
This was not the first time or the last, that Hollywood has created a historically distorted movie. It’s funny that people in entertainment industry make fun of President Bush as being stupid, but the reality is that the most ignorant people work in the entertainment industry.
Iranians react as if Hollywood had a perfect track record in depicting historical movies accurately. The more we talk about it, the more money they will make and that’s all it is to it.
Let’s stop helping Hollywood to make money.
And happy New Year to all peace loving Iranians. Norooz Moborak!
Dear Firozeh,
Thanx for your comment. I most certainly was not trying to minimize Mr. Arians work, as I have worked with him myself and know how much time and effort he puts into fighting the Islamic Regime. Unfortunatly he is in the minority. The point that I was trying to make perhaps unsuccessfully was that when it comes to fighting the IRI a lot of people would rather not get involved. If that was not the case then the IRI would not be in power for so long. But when it comes to attacking someone other then IRI everyone is there concerned about our culture and civilization, thats what I find hypocritical.
Also someone else made a good point on this threat, if our history and civilization can be destroyed by one holywood movie we have alot bigger problems then we thought.
Actions speak so much louder then words, why don’t we fix our country, our economy and develop our own art and make movies that portray the Persian culture in the light that we want?
It’s a movie. persians and iranians are fags. Go do some situps…
Just saw it! Great flick.
I get a kick out of how some have stopped shouting “Death to America” long enough to complain about how their cultural sensitivities are hurt. Cry me a river.
And I wonder how many women will wonder why they’re dating such a wuss after seeing it.
I was planning on renting this someday from Netflix.
However since the whiners and the islamofacist apologist started complaining and pretending it should have been a documentary I will see it two or three times in the theater and go buy it on dvd.
In fact I think I’ll go buy it on dvd at Walmart since that pisses off liberals even more.
The movie 300 is a dramatized account of events as seen by the ancient Greeks. Whatever wonderful things Xerxes may have done in Persia, to the Greeks he was a potential conquering despot. That is how they saw him, and that is how he is shown in the movie. As an American, you must be accustomed by now to seeing historical heros depicted through the eyes of those who did not admire them. We have all been told that George Washington was no hero to his slaves. We can acknowlegde that fact without loosing our admiration for Washington. So by all means point out the good things Xerxes did as King of Persia. But don’t get all worked up about a movie that shows him from the perspective of people who were resisting conqurst by him and his army.
OK, first of all, unlike most of the people leaving comments here I’ve actually seen the movie.
After reading too many idiotic reviews I was expecting some sort of pro-Western, anti-Muslim propaganda. The overwhelming impression that I got was that the director was not intending to create propaganda of any sort. It’s a highly stylized portrayal of the battle at Thermopylae — an even that is engraved in the historical memory of Western civilization and is the subject of numerous books and poems throughout the ages. It is not a movie with allegories to modern-day politics. The left is up in arms about this movie because the director didn’t water-down the story of Thermopylae with post-modern moral relativism — as is expected nowadays.
The good guys are the Greeks. They are defending their homeland from an invader from the East. I find the people here trying to justify Xerxes’ invasion utterly ridiculous. Let’s not forget that it was the same Xerxes that sacked Athens in 480. The Persian invasion was threatening the place where Western civilization was born. So why the hell is it controversial to portray Xerxes as the bad guy?
I can understand the modern-day Persians being offended. But I can assure you that this movie isn’t aimed against you. I wish more of you actually saw the movie before spouting off about it. If you don’t want to pay to see the movie in theatres then there are easy enough ways of downloading the movie using bittorrent.
To everyone else: this is a well-made movie that is worth watching.
It’s a movie based on a graphic novel. Anything the fascist Iranians hate is something I love. I loved this movie, without the politically correct sensitive trash! So refreshing!! I’ll go see it again!
I am of Iranian decent, but did not hate this movie. Unfortunatly, the critiques of this movie tend to be one of two opposite extremes. While I am proud of my ancient Perian/Iranian heritage, the Achaemenids, Parthians and Sassanians were not beyond reproach as many Iranians of today see them. Xerxes was not “Great”. When we label every Pre-Islamic Persian king as Great, we degrade the memories of those men and women who truly deserved that epithet – such as Cyrus, Darius or Khosrow-Anushirvan.
Let us remember, the Persians were the aggressors. Even if the mainland Greeks aided their compatriots in the Ionian revolt. Those compatriots were a conquered people. The stand of Leonadis and the Spartans was a paragon of valor, honor and sheer military discipline. Even Iranians should hale such a display. This stand can be likened to that of Ariobarza, who defied Alexander and checked his advance on Persepolis, only later to be slaughtered with all his men. Much later, Babak Khorramdeen undertook similar heroics in his stand against the Islamic rulers of Iran.
HAVING SAID ALL THAT.
I realize this movie is based on a comic book, which is the main line of defense for those who loved it. However, the comic book is based on real history and a magnificent episode in history at that. There are many movies with ancient warfare scenes, but the main thrust of this movie is a brave last stand against insurmountable odds. That really happened and that is what the movie is trying to convey. So why try to falsify it with inhuman, monstrous-looking soldiers. This takes away from the reality behind the true, heroism of the Spartans. Why the need for the embellishment and historical inaccuracy – even for a comic book. Are people that immature that they can’t learn about a story unless it has some monsters and larger than life, fantastical creatures?
Yeah, Yeah… I know. This is a movie. It was made for entertainment.
The problem is that many of the historically illiterate – and there are many – will see this and take most of it to heart. Basically, 300, is history for IDIOTS.
I thought the images were spectacular. Gerard Butler was outstanding as Leonadis, but the rest of cast left much to be desired. The narrator and fellow Spartan was a joke. There were also many clich√©s. Ephthialtes, hunched over and grotesque, following the army in the distance, smacked of gollum from Lord of the Rings. The real Ephthialtes wasn’t deformed and betrayed the Spartans out of simple greed.
Here are a couple of facts for those testosterone-filled jackasses who will see Leonadis and his Spartan warriors as the quintessence of manliness. The Spartans encouraged their soldiers to F%$k each other up the arses in order to improve camaraderie. The theory was, if you stick your wanker up your fellow soldiers a-hole, you’ll be MORE willing to save his life in battle. How’s that for a morale booster.
I know most movies are not totally historically accurate, but in Gladiator, Commodus and the Romans were not depicted as demons or disfigured goblins; in Braveheart, the English were not shown as savage cannibals. I think what truly upset me about this movie is the physical and ideological depiction of the Persians. They were not Black Africans; the Immortals were not leprous zombies; Xerxes was not an 8-foot tall, half-naked, flaming homosexual; and the Persians did not carry around the skulls of conquered kings.
Certain inaccuracies are acceptable, such as in Braveheart where William Walace defeats the English in a pitched battle, while in reality it was an ambush over a bridge. The problem with the gross distortions of the Persians is that many of the ignorant will believe it. Let’s face it, there are many in America who get practically all their knowledge of history from film and TV – and I don’t mean the history channel. This indeed doesn’t much differ from the misrepresentation of America that the Islamic Republic spews out. However, Americans should know better.
Basically, why embellish this history. The true glory is the real history. The true glory is Leonadis and the Spartans standing up to thousands of men, not mindless monsters and slaves right out of Lord of the Rings. However, Leonadis DID NOT fight for democracy. Democracy and equality had no place in Spartan society. It was only in Athens, that democracy took root. Leonadis stood his ground because of the Spartan code. Iranians must realize that this episode in history was telling the story of Greek resistance. That in itself is not degrading to Persians. The unparalleled benevolence of Cyrus the Great – the Greatest Monarch in History – is another story.
I know most don’t want a history lesson, but this may be the only time many read history.
50 some odd years after the Persians Wars, the Spartans went to war with their “Greek Brothers”, the Athenians, and defeated them. The Athenians didn’t recover until they combined their navy with that of PERSIA – the great enemy of Greece – and annihilated the Spartan navy.
The biggest anti-climax of all was that Themistocles, the true hero and savior of Greece – the one who rightly saw that Greece could not survive a Persian invasion without a navy, and led the defense against Persia – was later ostracized from Athens and ended his days in the service of the Persian king, advising him how to screw his fellow Greeks.
I like the real history, with all its ambiguities and not so nice endings.
For those who say I should go watch the History Channel, I say to them, if you want to see men battling inhuman, grotesque, out of this world beings, go watch Lord of the F&$king Rings.
I have not seen the film yet, but I thought I would mention a few reasons why I am thankful for the Greeks who beat back the Persians.
1. If Persia had conquered Greece the notion that an Empire with a Emperor who ruled by divine right is a democracy might sound reasonable. I am glad I don’t live on that planet.
2. Western Culture still exists while the Persians traded theirs for Arab culture when they converted to Islam.
3. I’m not FARSHAD BON. Seriously Far, do you really think you are going to regulate what we write, believe, watch and think? Do you plan on Failing us to death?
4. My (Western) civilization is not the same as persian civilization.
Iranians, do any of you actually believe that an American is going to hate you and your culture because of a movie? If an American hates you or your culture it probably isn’t because of hollywood.
Let me get this straight…
Iranians are upset because an ancient leader of Zoroastrian Persia was portrayed as somewhat of a girlie boy. Ok point taken – you’re cry babies.
First lesson of democracy modern day Iranians: criticism and opinions, artistic expression and license come in all shapes and forms, welcome to Western civilization! That you are debating this topic is promising regardless of whether your arguments make sense or not. For example we have to live with the relentless deranged arguments of liberals here i.e. it’s part and parcel of living in a democracy you just don’t understand it fully yet because they hate the US as much as islamist do. Some days I can’t tell them apart. One day however when democracy arrives in Iran you will look back and say geeeee now I understand what treacherous stupidity patriots had to endure back then.
Moving on and in response to Farhad Peiravi (above), the Spartans were in no way analogous to jihadist today.
a) they fought for Greece as did their Thespian allies, not for Allah. Allah would be a foreign concept to them altogether. They had 12 Gods and countless demi-gods in their time and as such would be considered polytheist infidels by today’s islamists. They also were idolaters. They were also known to enjoy a good wine (alcohol) here and there and especially after victories – a big no-no in Islam. I have a feeling they enjoyed wild boar and pork also, actually just wafts of their infamous cuisine would have Mohammad passing out in a nanosecond.
b) Spartan Men of fighting age fought in wars only. Never did they send young children to war nor did they hide behind women the elderly and children in battle like jihadist do today. They’d face their enemies resolutely anything otherwise was unthinkable and shameful.
c) The women of Sparta were respected, well educated and had a strong voice and rights that would shame even some cultures that exist today, indeed they managed much of Sparta while their soldiers were away on duty. Their scanty dress would have them stoned or buried alive by radical Islamic standards today also, ie. if they could handle Spartan women in the first place.
d) The helots were somewhere between free and slaves. Actually some were allowed to sell a portion of their farmed produce back to Sparta. Their customers included some Spartan commanders themselves. Last time I looked up the term slave enterprising is never referenced. Yes they were under Sparta’s thumb and yes they did revolt against Sparta’s earliest citizens which is why Sparta decided eventually to keep them in check.
e) The Spartans would have Osama for breakfast given the chance. Someone who hides his whereabouts for years upon years is put simply a coward.
Everyone wants to take a cut of the Spartans but something tells me if this culture existed today one thing is for certain you wouldn’t want to get on their bad side, and being people of wit and military prowess they probably be enjoying the tremendous amount of controversy over them today.
I have to agree with other expressions made here on 300 that although fantastical in its stylization, it does stick to the substance of the story as told by Herodotus. Frank Miller is a genius for portraying images and telling the story in a way which in essence resembles methods used by ancient Greeks themselves be it on their exquisite amphora and vases or in their ancient storytelling. He gives us an ancient viewpoint and for that he and Zack Snyder are to be commended for their creativity. People who see this movie are in for an experience they will remember, which is fitting, as the true heroic last stand is still remembered 25 centuries later.
OK, it is just a movie.
And this is just an Internet debate, all right? Which is even more removed from real life than any movie.
But if this debate will make a few people to open some old books and read about real history, it would make a lot more good than a stupid movie.
So, trying to shut down this debate is an act of censorship.
Incidentally, Hollywood knows censorship. We not going to see a movie about real siege of Jericho any time soon.
Yes, just saying that makes me just like Ahmadinejad, doesn’t it? Relax, it’s just an Internate debate, OK?
I’m pro American,so dont get this wrong. but its funny when majority of people in the US dont know their own history, companies like WB now seem interested in outher nations’. Frank Miller was a cartoonist after all, NOT an intellectual, he better stick to what he knows: drawing, and leaves history to the experts. i bet Frank Miller came up with the book only after a shallow skim over the history. go on about what you wanna say, but that disgusting homo looking freak with all those piercings in his FACE, is far from an image of XERCES the GREAT.if frank miller or director needed imagination/inspiration,they couldve used the history and change the names for their own version, but when you enter a territory that doesnt belong to you (history as opposed to POP Culture), you better be honest, or else its just a CHEAP movie with lots of Special Effects. its disgustingly cheap. that book is cheap too. after all who reads all those comic books these days? bunch of 40 year olds who have the brain of a 10 year old.
The point isn’t anything other than the fact that at this point in time, when the Islamic regime uses ANY and all ruses to force it’s will upon the exhausted Iranian people AND as such, the world at large, this film only gives the Mullahs and the creep Ahmadinejad more fodder to act all nationalistic….which the world will simply buy. What the rest of the world has never wanted to pay attention to is that the Mullahs not only don’t give a toss about the Persian culture, they have actively worked at destroying Iran’s pre-Islamic identity and the soul of all things Persian. When the greedy and self-congradulatory Hollywoodites put a film such as THIS out at this point in time, not only are they empowering the Mullahs with YET another fake reason to act all righteously indignant but they are encouraging an atmosphere of intolerance and suspicion against those decent and law-abiding Iranians who have lived in the U.S. and assimilated. It is exactly this form of thoughtlessness that so consistently emanates from the west that the Mullahs have always prayed on.
TRASHY and UNTRUE,
These are words that comes to my mind when ever I see an ad for this movie. What Holly wood and makers of this movie KNOW and do not care about is the fact that a lot of viewers will consider this movie to be based on truth. I would not have any problem with this movie if Holly wood would declare it to be FICTION of writers, producers and directors imagination by mentioning it at the beginning of this movie and advertising it as such plus removing all names and characters that are referring to PERSIAN empire.
This movie has no value for accuracy, history and has less value as an entertainment subject.
After all, its value is in movie shelves and will be nothing more than FICTION and BAD ADVENTURE story.
Just to point out few more ironies.
All those people talking about Spartans protecting Western heritage make me laugh. The values of modern Western civilization are very close to the ones of Achemenide empire and have almost nothing in common with true Spartan values.
Achemenide empire was a vast centralised bureaucracy that nominally cared about all subjects. Spartans were ruthless slave owning oligarchs. If 300 Spartans appeared in a local mall, the general US populace would run away in terror. Army units would be called immediately and the stand-off wouldn’t last six days or even six hours. All 300 would still die, that’s a given.
Regarding the question who were the real barbarians, Persians or Spartans, the answer is neither. The real barbarians are the XXI century gawkers, lusting for more and more digital gore and mayhem. That makes them just like the mobs of late Roman and Persian empires, demanding endless “bread and circuses”.
In defence of Islam: it didn’t overturn Achemenide empire. Islam came on the scene much later and swept away the ancient paganistic states in Middle East and Northern Africa, that were extremely corrupt and disgusting. Before Islam, Christianity performed similar function against decomposing Roman empire. So both Islam and Christianity were civilizing and progressive movements originally. Present day Iran mullahcracy is another matter entirely, of course.
You display a deep ignorance with this line:
“…is there any difference between the makers of this movie and Ahmadinejad?”
What is the difference between artists and political leaders?
Even if the makers of this film wanted to wipe the Jews off the planet, it’s not likely they would ever have the means to do so.
Throwing all the politics and angst aside, the movie was a graphic and cinematic tour d’force, as the box office receipts atest to. On the other hand, the reality of the battle and the heroics are somewhat cheapened on both sides by this cinematic fantasy, for a reasonably accurate historical fiction account that is also great reading, try Stephen Pressfield’s “Gates of Fire”
Hollywood Industries are much propaganda machines under the control of the only one master whom chooses or dictates every thing in Hollywood, this master tells film industries what kind of movies to make and way or how to make it an for what propos. If you look back in just last 50 years history of film making of Hollywood perhaps you can see many politically motivated movies for changing or effecting peoples’ opinion and With this in mind you realize movie 300 could not be of any exemption, so don’t be surprise once in a while you confronted with films like this one (300′s).
Who do you thing this master is? I suspect CIA or US Government or thing tanks maybe!
But you know you can always bribe the master just like ever bode ells have don it in the past.
We should investigate who would benefit the most from this movie politically in the near future or at the present. As you know Hollywood draw wrong pitcher from the trout and reality, Persians are the founder of civilization and first largest imperial impairers in the world. 2500 years ago when the (Koroush) sirus the great the king of king king of IRAN free the Babylon and enforced first ever deceleration of human rights in the world history most of Europe was under the brutal roll of the roam or Greeks prisoners were eating by liens or were killed by each others in the name of Gladiators.
I as proud Iranian and Persian American will not go to see this movie and I am asking other Persian please do the same. Thank you Behkam.
Guys and girls… Please grew up first… And then talk, OK?
I grew up watching the TV series about brave Polish tankers (and their Soviet friends) beating the Germans during 2WW and Polish double agents spying on Germans. I saw many times epic movies (based on novels written by Mr.Sienkiewicz, that are mandantory readings in our schools) about Polish knights and noblemans fighting with Germans, Kossacks, Sweds and Turks over the centuries.
Do I hate Germans, Sweds, Turks, Ukrainians and others?
No.
Now I am student in German university, who participated in the lectures with students from nearly all over the world, I made joint projects with Turkish, Belarussian, Vietnamiese and Swedish friends.
If a certain movie is made as a piece of entertainment, not propaganda, it is little to worry about. But even propaganda movie is not sucessful, if there is no resonance for hate in the hearts of viewers.
So grew up guys.
MAZDA … COME ON MAN ..WAKE UP YOU ARE BLIND TO SEE THE TRUTH… THE GREAT ALAH WILL PUNISH THE INFIDELS WHO MAKE MOVIE LIKE THIS…..FRANK MILLER IS A HISTORIAN ….EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT ..THE PERSIANS WERE ABLE TO FIND NINJAS WITH REALLY SHARP TEETH…AND TWENTY FOOT TALL GIANT TO CRUSH THE SPARTAN PEOPLE….MAZDA…DONT WORRY ABOUT 300….REMEMBER BACK IN 1979….WHEN OUR PEOPLE WERE HOLDING HOSTAGES ….HIJACKING PLANES…REMEMEBER…DELTA FORCE, AND ALL THE OTHER ANTI IRANIAN MOVIES…..WHY DONT YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT THOSE MOVIES…..THEY DID MORE DAMAGE TO OUR PEOPLE THEN THIS MOVIE, YOU RETARD…
As an American filmmaker who believes in common sense, I’d hope that “an Iranian-American filmmaker who believes in truth and humanity” would spend a fraction of his energy and time exposing the rape which Islam committed against his culture of origin 1.5 thousand years ago, rather than fuming over a fictional movie of a historic event from 2.5 thousand years ago.
Until all the non-Arab Muslims and Muslim apostates of the world face facts and admit to the rest of us that ISLAM is simply a fascist vehicle to impose a genocidal Arab tribal culture over the rest of the world, they don’t have much credibility criticizing anything else in the world, especially fictional films.
Oh — and I’m sick to the gills of the endless umbrage expressed by all the angry middle easterners all the time. Let’s see you focus some of that extreme rage AGAINST your fascist Islamic rulers rather than against creative Westerners…
That would be nice for a change, and probably do a lot more to gain friends from among the free people of the West.
Let’s keep things in perspective: Islamic despots and governments are committing the most heinous atrocities against non-Muslims (*and Muslims too) across the globe.
Tell the truth about Islam. Admit the fact that this belief system is not being hijacked by a tiny minority of extremists, but is instead at its very core a sewer of hatred, human degradation, violence, and lies.
“Truth and humanity” require nothing less from the apparently tiny minority of honest Muslims of the world.
If the King of Persia was such a just and tolerant leader, what the heck was he invading Greece for in the first place?
If these Persian Kings were back today, no doubt they would be on the side of America (more specifically, the conservative party), Friend of Israel, against the bully hypocritical materialist
(marxist) Religion of War and they would crush Ahmadinejad and his 40,000 thieves in one quick strike.
Too bad Iran lost her Soul the day Islam and the Arab world invaded her land.
But don’t think it would be impossible to change all that. Persian people are very aware and very proud of their own history and true essence unless they are marxists. But thanks to 27 years of fascist islamic revolution and ruling, iranians inside the country have reached the Light again. There has always been a love story with America. Something in our genes (from the time of the Persian Empire/Bill of Rights + two references in the Bible: the liberation of the jewish people from Babylon and the Persian origin of the Magi/Zoroastrian priests).
Our common enemy are the muslim clerics who fight not only to impose sharia law (divine rights to dirty old men), but then also in the name of greed: for OIL. Their motives are transparent, nobody with half a brain could possibly be fooled by so much Lies and Ugliness. And ultimately they are no different in their envy and hatred from their cousins the Bolchevics, other time, other environment. Just better protected because they supposedly have God on their side (but it’s Satan) and they can be very ferocious (like beheadings with a sword).
If Hell was true, that’s were they shall go.
And please never again conflate Sufism with Islam. If Sufi poets and mystics have praised in their verses Mohammed, it’s only because they were too afraid for their own lives. Appeasers; not good. They would make perfect democrats.
Frank Miller is a fucking idiot.
What I don’t understand is why this moron has to write about history when he clearly knows nothing of it (“It’s only fiction” is never a good excuse to insult a nation). If you’re gonna write fiction, write fiction (use fictious names, give them wings, pierce them, ink them, make them fly, or whatever the hell you desire), but if you’re gonna base it on history, know the history then put your goddamn pen to the paper.
I wonder how these same people would react if I made a movie that depicted Americans or Jews as monsters. would it still be the best movie ever made? I doubt it.
Now for Shawn: you wanna know why they invaded Greece? go on youtube and search for “Engineering an Empire Persians”. There are 5 videos totaling to about 30 minutes. It’ll tell you why when and how. When Cyrus the great invaded Babylon (a part of it would be today’s Iraq) he did not go in for oil. He attacked because the jews were kept as slaves. He went and freed them and there he made his famous Cylinder.
To Dreamer: Those Persian kings would never side with Israel (invading Palestine’s land by force .. not that I care much for the Arab side of the deal) or America (Blood for Oil, Haliburton), nor would they side with Ahmadinejad (and his idiotic muslim beliefs). Iran did not lose her soul. Iran’s proud soul still lives on in me and the millions of proud Persians all around the globe. And I promise you one day we will return that soul to iran’s precious soil. It took those filthy Arabs over 800 years and many of their useless lives to nearly complete their religious invasion and to this day they have not fully succeeded (Although unfortunately there are still many Iranians who proudly dub themselves muslims … they’ll eventually learn that while Islam was the best thing to happen to the Arabs’ savage world, it was the worst disaster to ever happen to a civilized nation such as Persia).
The day is close and Ahmadinejad and his idiotic islamic beliefs may just be the wake up call for Iranians.
And for Mr. American Filmmaker: I’d like to see an Iraqi filmmaker make a movie about how you “Liberated” Iraq. Maybe have an Iranian filmmaker make a movie on how America sold Saddam those Chemical bombs. We’re still getting extremely deformed (missing limbs, fingers, etc.) babies born in South-Western Iran … how about we show some “creativity” there?
Insulting a civilization (fiction or not) is idiotic. Specially when you take the only people with anti-slavery laws at the time and say they went to enslave the spartans, Or when Xerxes says “I’d kill any one of my men”, while he was the kind of king that paid those who’d normally be slaves in any other kingdom (Let’s face the facts here … if Spartans were really all that honorable would the Greek army leave them behind as bait for the Persians? Obviously not. you leave behind the slaves, low lifes, and scums).
Please, stop talking out of your ass and try to see the movie from the point of view of a nation that has nothing but their past (and hopefully their future).
Also, watching a spy movie is quite different from watching a movie that insults an entire nation.
Shikamoo weighs in, and is found wanting.
“I wonder how these same people would react if I made a movie that depicted Americans or Jews as monsters. ”
A Muslim making a movie depicting Americans and Jews as monsters? That would NEVER happen.
What a pathetic Islamic tool. More projection from another hatred steeped Muslim apologist ranting his anti-American anti-Jewish anti-civilzation Muslim sewage.