Fast and Furious: Three Questions Not Asked
Attorney General Eric Holder provided a sixth unsatisfactory performance in front of Congress this past week, dodging questions about the nation’s deadly gunrunning scandal.
To date, the media has largely buried the story of the Department of Justice scheme that contributed to the deaths of a federal agent and more than 300 Mexican citizens. Such a story would have held front-page, top-of-the-hour focus until answers were provided and officials had been hounded out of office or imprisoned had it occurred under a Republican administration.
But Barack Obama is a Democrat, and black. Also, Eric Holder is a Democrat, and black. It is inconceivable for the mainstream media to grill the decisions, motives, or goals of black Democrats for fear of being “racist” according to their own definition of the term, which is criticism of a minority member who professes the “correct” political ideology. Radically different rules apply for minority Republicans.
Whether Operation Fast and Furious was a legitimate law enforcement operation, as the Department of Justice claims, or was part of a plot to impose gun control, it was radically different from all other border gun operations in one crucial way. Operation Fast and Furious was the only border gun operation that was undertaken with the full intention of the straw-purchased guns leaving the control of law enforcement officers and reaching the armories of drug cartel murderers. That fact alone should lead to the impeachment or administrative removal of everyone, from field agents to political appointees and elected officials that knew or should have known about the plot.
But that is only half of the horror story.
Operation Fast and Furious was specifically conceived so that “walked” guns would be recovered at crime scenes in Mexico. Their serial numbers would be provided to the ATF by Mexican authorities for tracing. Regardless of motive, the entire operation was premised on weapons being recovered at crime scenes in Mexico, and law enforcement agencies are well aware that criminals primarily abandon weapons only after they’ve been used in serious felony crimes such as murder or attempted murder.
Operation Fast and Furious was conceived knowing that Mexican nationals would be sacrificed in significant numbers if the tracing operation had any chance of working.
Operation Fast and Furious allowed more than 2,000 weapons to “walk,” indicating that those in charge of the operation were willing to let thousands of Mexican nationals die in an effort to identify the ringleaders of a cartel’s weapon acquisition team.
The Department of Justice claims that they did this so that they could trace the weapons to higher-ups in the cartels and take down entire gun-smuggling networks. Decent people can disagree on many aspects of crime fighting and the amount of risk we should be willing to absorb to fight crime, but we should all agree that no criminal network is worth sacrificing the lives of hundreds or thousands of victims. Yet that is precisely the way Operation Fast and Furious was designed to work.
The first question is obvious, and yet remains unasked by the media and unanswered by the Obama administration and Department of Justice:
- Who conceived this radical departure from normal law enforcement practices? Who conceived an operation that depended upon the deaths of hundreds or thousands of Mexican nationals for its success?
But as disturbing as the conception of the plot was, it was merely an idea, if one that most would agree is objectively evil in design. It should have died stillborn on the proverbial drawing board. Somehow, this idea was not just allowed, but someone with significant political and operational clout within the Justice Department was able to shepherd this high-risk and inarguably lethal program from idea through planning and budgeting into execution. This strongly suggests high-level sponsorship within the Department of Justice. This demands answers to a second question:
- Which Department of Justice officials saw that Operation Fast and Furious was dependent on hundreds or thousands of firearms being given to the cartels and recovered at the scenes of crimes, knew that the crimes in question were likely to be murders of Mexican nationals or U.S. citizens along the Mexican border where the cartels operate, and approved the operation anyway?
The MSM will continue to dodge this story, until they film a perp walk.
Keep hammering away, Bob.
Mr Owens,
Thank you for your diligence in this matter … your post should have been read at the commencement of the last hearing; and the reading also televised live for the entire world to see. These three questions are in no way divisive; on the contrary they are refreshingly keen and logical, and ones that most everyone can understand. Send a copy to Issa … so that next time there’s a hearing (I hope there is another); your questions can take the lead. Holder is being allowed way too much wiggle room, he is NOT brought to task over his BS at the hearings and furthermore; everyone including Issa is afraid of Holder and his playing the race card and his portrayal of himself as a ‘victim’ of white boys that want a noose around his neck. The imagery alone is so powerful, that fear is the only explanation for Holder’s continued arrogance and ‘above the law’ attitude. Isn’t it starnge that after all the deaths and the obvious lying of Holder; that NOBODY has surfaced to expose the truth of this matter. The power to instill fear, is the hallmark of this administration; knowingly killing people for political advantage, control and power is the domain of despots and dictators – what in the world is going on? Six hearings and nobody can nail Holder??? WTF!???
The people killed were nobodies, the crimes around the guns were B movie gangsters in Mexico, and here and there a Brian Terry, oops, but really, no one cares – and that was factored in also – the smoke will blow over – all part of the plan, however moronic, to get guns away from US citizens, by way of establishing a foundation for new restrictions. Ho hum. Small change. Now in Russia things are done right….
You see, we are up to here with laws against corruption and corruption thrives, is systemic. The Justice Dept reflects that rot, a rot that is not just the msm, it is a rot in the culture at large. Look around ladies and germs, it’s everywhere and all rounded by a sleepy, indolent, self-regarding, ignorant and self-entitled population. They elected this cartoon man, this leftist clown, as potus. As any third world country does.
This will not change until catastrophe comes, and then it will get worse and the swirling shadows of that have been in formation, most visibly since 2007, as the weird, shadowy financial corruption and political lies inherent in central planning fails and even now, in slow but increasing motion, brings down the sector economies one by one, nation by nation. The can has had it’s last kick.
What won’t work are tweaks of the tax code, or Paul Ryan’s ideas on entitlements, or even the mass firings of the entire Department of Justice, or a new potus or an all Repub congress – it will not change as you dearly wish and are now crazed to understand how no one seems to notice the obvious like Fast and Furious. What we have here is a government ready to establish a national police state, as passed by the Repubs, too (NSDD) for reasons quite plain – one will soon be needed. This is the last big growth sector for the government – domestic security – and it is filling every office space left in DC and Virginia – and coming to a neighborhood near you. So, when I see the testy responses of the AG over yesterday’s news, I well understand. He has so many other fish to fry, so many, many others. Fast and Furious? My dear, man, you have no idea what you are in for…
Remember Janet Reno, Bill Clinton and Waco? Men, women and children died and Reno et alia kept their jobs
The republican leadership is bought and paid for, has no fight in them, and the republican women have more fight and bigger balls. Nothing will happen, the repubs are selling out.
http://www.westernjournalism.com/john-boehner-to-halt-fast-and-furious-investigation-sell-out-to-holder-and-white-house/
I don’t know, Bob. Something about this entire story doesn’t add up.
It feels to me as if a number of pieces are missing.
1. The American federal law enforcement community wants to identify the shooters of Mexican nationals on Mexican turf, by using American gun shops to intentionally run guns to Mexican drug cartels?
Say this slowly. Take each part separately, disassemble it and then put it back together.
1.Does somebody believe that the Mexican government does not know who is at the head of the Mexican drug cartels?
A. Let me disabuse any layman of the notion that nearly EVERY high ranking Mexican government official doesn’t know EXACTLY who is at the head of the Mexican drug cartels. They have been dealing with them directly, trying to work with them to avoid destroying the tourism trade and negotiating with them to try to control the violence.
2. Does somebody believe that AMERICAN law enforcement does not know about gang trafficking of guns and drugs, operating on both sides of the border, often using undocumented illegals to use our borders as a sieve? Operating in our prisons and in virtually every state in the union, but especially border states?
A. Let me disabuse any layman of the notion that organized crime is NOT at the heart of nearly all the violent crime, drug abuse and terrorization of our major metropolitan areas. Or that law enforcement in AMERICA doesn’t know EXACTLY who these gangbangers are.
3. So, why would they try to have guns sold from here, to be used in crimes there, to trace to people they already know well…that kill Mexican citizens… over whom we have no authority to investigate when they are victims of crimes…in which we essentially aided and abetted committing as a government program?
A. A junior grade, rookie, Barney Fife level detective would see the holes in this in two minutes. “Identifying” the gang that commits a crime is a strawman, in this scenario. The cartels are known commodities. The gangs here are known commodities.
The coverup story hides something deeper. Much deeper.
As long as the murders stayed on the other side of the border, or within the gang infestation on this side of the border, the plan is useless.
The gangbanger that shot Brian Terry tripped up the game. The ONLY way this makes any sense, is if the guns made it BACK across the border. And…wound up at crime scenes HERE.
Not a Brian Terry type crime scene. An inner city, gangbanger crime scene.
Now…try to piece together the narrative. “AMERICAN gun shops are responsible for killing minority youths, by assisting the gun and drug cartels. AMERICAN officials are able to trace guns from AMERICAN gun shops into Mexico and then back into the AMERICAN inner cities.
AMERICA and the NRA NUTS are the bad guys, who needs to APOLOGIZE to Mexico …AND to the parents of youth in the inner cities and major metropolitan areas for CAUSING violent crime. People don’t kill people..guns do. ”
This doesn’t look, feel, smell like a law enforcement project. It has all the earmarks of a community organizer’s project. Plant evidence, stir up trouble…point at the trouble. The harder the 2nd amendment defenders argue, the more you point at the trouble. Until they capitulate.
Works with banks. Works with real estate.
Think like an ACORN.
The media aren’t reporting it, because the propaganda machine can’t yet “play the narrative”.
Work through this slowly. “Identifying the user” is a head fake. They KNOW the user…hell, they SOLD to the user. And…300 dead Mexicans are crimes we can’t investigate. What’s the play here? THAT’S the coverup.
I like how you think and I believe that you are approaching it from the right direction. Its not about the sensational crime, its about the conditions that facilitated it and the end results. If we wanted gangs in Mexico to have guns, the CIA could’ve flown a planeload or two there no problemo’. The thing is that someone wanted a gun purchased from some redneck flag wavin store in the US, to cross the border, get used in the crime, so that the store and its owner go down. Moreover, to demonize that guy, to punish him. Moreover, to facilitate a climate of violence so big in Mexico that people have little choice but to flow north and who is waiting for them? Well, the benevolent Democrat party with open arms and the blood of 300 mexicans on their hands that are quite eager to turn them into democrat party voters since their numbers have been dropping bad lately.
Follow the trail of voters and it’ll lead to the criminals.
TC all good reasoning except for the Community Organizer. It is part and parcel of the Bolshevik Revolution which was and is a bona fide violent revolution that has no compassion. This spirit has its own agenda and has no intention of being just. it speaks of being fair but the motive is selfish. It is not about how I should treat you but all about how you should treat me and Obama sees that as being treated as a king. ACORN is up to no good but to exploit the poor and the ignorant. Just consider their ways.
Well thought out, thank you.
Your comments made me think a bit “farther out there” than usual. As you say, clearly this was not necessary and would provide no information about the smugglers and cartels than we already know. So why?
The idiots in this administration keep believing they can “talk reasonably” to all manners of thugs, dictators, and murderers, all over the world. One wonder then…was this actually a secretly sanctioned transfer of weapons to the cartels, so we could buddy up to them? Talk nicely to them and ask them please, please, stop what you’re doing? Quid Pro Quo, ’cause we have given you a nice gift of weapons?
Dunno. I am reaching more than a bit here, but on the face of it, this actually makes more sense than Gunwalker ever did.
The reason that they think that they can talk reasonably to thugs and criminals is because they are thugs and criminals.
“Let me disabuse any layman of the notion that nearly EVERY high ranking Mexican government official doesn’t know EXACTLY who is at the head of the Mexican drug cartels. They have been dealing with them directly, trying to work with them to avoid destroying the tourism trade and negotiating with them to try to control the violence.”
You left out “collecting piles of cash in payoffs”.
You certainly are onto it, cfb. But there remain bigger questions.
WHY doesn’t our team peddle the hypotheses and scenarios possible here?
WHY doesn’t Issa hammer them out in his question preambles like the libs do?
WHY doesn’t O’Reily raise the questions — he’s so tough,huh?
WHY doesn’t any number of conservative money groups including the NRA fund Terry’s family with suit after suit alleging WTF ever, just like the libs do?
Pussies, that’s why. And that’s why elections don’t count for squat anymore.
Yes, pussies. Any one or two people alone telling this story would be relentlessly attacked by the MSM. The attacks would easily work because, how can you possibly think the soon-to-be-sainted Obama would conceive of, let alone follow through with, such a plan? Only if the entire Republican establishment agreed and publicly defended this explanation would it work.
You might want to familiarize yourself with these two blogs:
http://waronguns.blogspot.com/
-and-
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/
Those two have been leading the reporting since BATFE agents at CleanupATF.org first went live with info on Agent Terry’s murder in December 2010. The first link has a timeline on the left hand side (in EIGHT parts due to the amount of information). BOTH bloggers have been feeding info to Congress since the very start, and attempting to feed information to the Media as well. Unfortunately, the only Media that seems interested has been CBS, who has assigned Sharyl Attkisson to do a series of reports, including this:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20109529-10391695.html
documenting the number of guns found at the scene of Agent Terry’s murder (THREE, not TWO) and their sources, and calling the Agent’s murder “collateral damage”.
The answer to your questions is timing. The GOP is feeding this out, piece by piece, doing it carefully so that it will peak on election day with a lot of hispanic Obama supporters staying home in shame and not a few of them swapping over to the GOP for the first time in a long while.
Ultimately, the most powerful thing we can do is to keep working on the story so that it can’t be poo poohed away as “old news” that’s not worth coverage in the fall.
Excellent point. And for this to be totally exposed will take the efforts and digging of grassroots journalists, web journalists and citizen journalists.
But as pointed out by TMLutas it has to be timed perfectly. I really don’t think we can count on the power brokers in the GOP to come close to knowing how to do this.
Excellent analysis, cf. This deserves to be the centerpiece of a mainstream media expose, one that will reach as many citizens as possible, starring ATF agents, Issa and the lead investigators, and insiders who know their way around these issues. Where is FOX on this critical issue? Anybody out there got their ear?
The second largest shareholder at Fox network is now Saudi Arabian Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, a man who offered $10 million to build the Cordoba Mosque at Ground Zero,supports universal Sharia law and recently invested $300 million into Twitter. I think the days of fair and balanced are over. I’m sure that many at Fox would love to be talking more about Fast and Furious — but if they did they would soon be doing their talking on the unemployment line.
cf, you are correct. This was a “community organizer” op from the get go. It has all the tell tale signs. This op was meant to advance a policy agenda. That agenda was gun control.
Dig a little deeper and you’ll also find something interesting. Once this op was going, you’ll find articles in which Clinton and Obama were complaining that U.S. guns were responsible for most gun deaths in Mexico. That you know. See what else was being written at that time. The Mexican government was exploring whether to sue U.S. gun manufacturers in U.S. courts. It had been steered to a democratic party affiliated law firm for just that purpose and, this is the best part, Obama nominated and installed a member of that firm to the U.S. District Court in Texas where such a suit would be venued.
Are you getting it? This is textbook governance by people whose “community organizing” always involved shakedowns, political payoffs, and extortion. They just dressed it up real pretty and “did it for the people.”
Never mind that bound, gagged, and murdered Mexican nationals disagree.
I think you’ve nailed it, cfbleachers. My brother used to be a union organizer in the 70′s and he would brag about idiotic schemes that smack of this sort of moral bankruptcy. Everything being done right now is being done for reasons other than their surface explanation, primarily targeting our bill of rights and national sovereignty. One of the major goals of the communist party in recent times has been to dissolve borders, strengthen the control of the U.N. and create a military arm of the organization. I believe that much of what we are seeing in matters like Fast and Furious is feeding that agenda. Sorry if I sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I read U.N. briefings and there is much to support this view.
CF, you’re exactly right.
The whole scenario from a L/E standpoint doesnt pass the laugh test.
From the author:
“…those in charge of the operation were willing to let thousands of Mexican nationals die in an effort to identify the ringleaders of a cartel’s weapon acquisition team”
Even if that IS the administrations story, its bogus.
Drug-lords dont pay retail for semi auto’s, onesie twosie with 4473′s and “background checks” at multiple locales, then try to get them south across the boarder…
They have truckloads of fresh, new full-auto’s devilered to them by the Mexican Army, through the Chinese, or Russians, or the Syrians or the Cubans or the North Koreans or, or, or, or…..
They are so busy “denying” a worst case FALSE narrative to distract us with the red meat we think is THERE, while thier real motives are absolutely unmentionable.
I tried googling ‘fast and furious chicago gangs’ and got this;
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/09/robert-farago/atf-death-watch-75-atf-enabled-indiana-guns-went-to-chicago-gangs/
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/sep/06/report-seven-shot-inside-carson-city-ihop/
I then googled various combinations of ‘fast and furious’ ‘crime scenes US’ ‘gangs US’ etc.
It seems that your careful thinking has arrived at the correct conclusion cf. A conclusion many of us intuitively arrived at when the fast and furious scandal first broke. From all the mayhem I read about just now it would seem that the operation was a success in that it created the environment Holder intended. Just as you said, the Brian Terry murder tripped up the whole game by revealing the governments role. My guess is the original plan was to use those guns as gun control publicity when they showed up at crime scenes here in the US, but now they will have to cover them up. The more of them that show up at crime scenes here, the worse they look. Unless an honest and competent investigation is done, we may never know how many of those guns have been used to kill us.
The word backfire comes to mind.
In Mexico they have a theory on Fast & Furious.
Many Mexicans believe that the President Calderon of the ruling PAN party favors the Sinaloa Cartel over the upstart Zetas Cartel. Calderon believes the Zetas are a threat to mexican state security and solicited help from Obama/Holder/ATF/DEA.
As a quid pro quo Calderon did Obama the political favor pointing the finger at the USA as the source 85% of all illegal guns siezed in Mexico. Calderon was only too happy to do this. He is taking blame for heating up the cartel wars and for the general insecurity issue in general. Blaming the USA makes him look like a defiant nationalist going to the heart of the yankee beast and telling them off.
It is also funny that after denying prior knowledge regarding “F & F”, Mexican AG, the beautiful Marisela Morales has said nothing.
The scary thing is that if Agent Terry had not been killed, we never would have known about this program. The CIA and FBI consider DEA to be a bunch of reckless rednecks. The CIA probably knows what happened.
If you draw the political puppet strings, Sinaloa is more likely to have descendants and relatives in California and other SW necklace states, whereas Zetas are more likely to have counterparts in Texas or as part of “new” immigration in redder southern states. Obama would get little net gain from helping the Zetas (who themselves are somewhat of a branch of the old northern Mexican separatist movement), because Zetans might be those pesky conservative hispanics from Texas and they are also less likely to be legal in the other states.
Wonderful – wonderful – wonderful – and then we all get to opine once again as to the why of F&F!
So work with me here for a moment citizens – how about a list of the lesser beavers – not the big critters who plan the dam – but the smaller beavers who cut the branches and place the twigs.
We know the lead beavers – and they are tight when it comes to ‘dam silence’ – but what about the aspiring workers?
The Justice people and the FBI – along with the ATF and others associated with this abuse of the American Way can’t be ‘all good’ – so name up some of those ’brought along with the change to a Chicago style operation. Conservatives on the staff of departments most involved with F&F would stand out like ‘beavers teeth’ – so pony up some liberal names – from Justice that should be an easy list.
With a list of possible voices then all that would be necessary is a choral director and a couple of assistants – ‘specialists in getting people to sing’!
Back to reality – “Thank you Bob Owen for being Americas source for ‘what it is’ when it comes to Fast and Furious!
I hear that the quality of mexican weed now rivals Humboldt or BC?
Please advise us what you smoked prior to writing your comment? It certainly is mind altering, at least for your sake I hope so.
The media aren’t reporting it, because the propaganda machine can’t yet “play the narrative”.
This is akin to a bomb blowing up in their faces – now they’ll never be able to use the narrative in the ‘plan A’ script. All they can do now is backstop the problem until it fades – a likely scenario given the response of the MSM on this issue. Something they are very hopeful of. Look for Holder to be ‘martyred’ by this summer – with a presidential pardon for all past offenses shortly after the election regardless of election results. Win or lose Obama won’t have much to answer for with such a compliant MSM and he’ll reward Holder for his faithful service.
Sir; have you considered what Mexico got in response? Free border passage for northbound immigrants? Amnesty laws? Have you considered what the Democrat party has received as a result? Voters?
Look, put these three pieces together. Gunrunning as a means to identify cartels, cartel murders as a means to identify guns, poor economic conditions in Mexico, the need for voters in the Democrat party, and you’ve got yourself a very cynical US-Mexican foreign policy possibly hatched at that lavish state dinner the president had for Mexico, that was, if i recall, quite over the top. A little, “you help us with our gun problem, we’ll help you with your immigrant problem as long as you send ‘em north with the message “vote democrat”, and we’ll both make it look like we’re fighting the drug cartels, mmkay?”
I just really think you have to see who wins in this–its easy to identify the losers. Find out who wins and you’ll be able to backtrack it back to the strategy and the people.
O.k. cfbleachers; you nailed it!!! Thanks for that … Issa make note please, heh!
Surely cfbleachers is not the ONLY one that gets it??? Your post makes more sense than anything else that I’ve read or heard. “….The media aren’t reporting it, because the propaganda machine can’t yet “play the narrative”. – EXACTLY.
“Work through this slowly. “Identifying the user” is a head fake. They KNOW the user…hell, they SOLD to the user. And…300 dead Mexicans are crimes we can’t investigate. What’s the play here? THAT’S the coverup.” – EXACTLY.
If cfbleachers is right – and I believe he/she is – then what the hell are Issa et al doing???? This is not very comforting at all; are we being played by both sides? Will agent Terry’s family and others get answers? Is Issa the ONLY guy on the planet doing anything?? I say enough is enough … there are too many of us around the country getting “that sinking feeling” resulting from corruption that has existed in government for a long time but has literally exploded under this current administration. Let’s not give this one a pass … I’m appealing for one; just one patriot with guts, to come forward and fill in the details of the outline of the plan that cfbleachers nailed; c’mon!!!
Very interesting. If CFBleachers and Judge Arrow are correct then the question to be asked is not who lost but, rather, cui bono – who benefits? The clear answer to that sits a bit higher on the May Pole than AG Holder. Since that seems fairly clear, the only chance available to have this become a cause celebre among the good citizens of the U.S. who care [perhaps 25% of the total] will be for a massive advertising campaign in local papers. Reprints of your article, perhaps? If invoked, don’t forget that Section 1021 of the NDAA 2012 can bite, and bite hard.
I wrote much the same here
http://rightwingfringe.blogspot.com/2012/02/obamas-bloody-hands.html
Spinoneone – “cui bono – who benefits?”
Those short the US dollar today, and those who will be the powers “behind the throne” when the time comes for the successor to the US dollar to be announced. Wall Street is one party that comes to mind, the other is the Democrats, after all third world countries always re-elect socialist/fascist governments after economic collapses.
Argentina suffered hyper inflation in 2001, by 2006 the socialists were back in charge again, with majorities.
The siren call of “free s**t” is irresistable to the “sheeple masses” after all.
“why does President Obama refuse to appoint a special prosecutor or, at the very least, call for Eric Holder and his direct reports to resign?”
Because Obama and Holder cooked up this scheme together. If Obama fires Holder, Holder will sing.
You hit the nail on the head. Obama has no qualms about dropping old friends and associates when they become a problem (Rev. Wright) He is tied to Holder in this one and other skulduggery. In a just world, they would both be deported to some small island where they can do no more harm.
There is no such place on this planet. They need to be dropped into some deep, dark hole somewhere without food, water, or hope of escape. After they are paraded in shame through the streets. Like the Romans did with their foreign enemies.
Criminal Racketeering Enterprise! Obama’s name is all over this! That is the real “Cover-Up” and he knows it to be a MATERIAL FACT!
I don’t even think that Holder has to worry about being Fosterized. He’s probably got his full-disclosure life-insurance policy squirreled away somewhere offshore – like his beloved Barbados – that even Obama’s long arm can’t touch.
Impeach Holder now. Let him sing like a canary. After that, offer him the Frankie Five Angels way out. Presidential pardons are invalid in cases of impeachment, anyway.
Since Obama is, as stated, not a sentimental man, he would have made this problem go away if he could, by getting rid of Holder (and many others). It is likely that this operation was approved by the WH.
Q. What’s the #1 attribute required for quality TV journalists?
A. Good Hair
So….
This is the dawning of the Age of Incurious
The Age of Incurious
Incurious! Incurious!
Google PATCON.
Holder has been involved in underhanded dealing since the 1990′s
Issa should demand a name from Holder. “Give us the name of the person who authorized this.” Either he does, and that person can then be questioned (and subsequently spill the beans) or he does not, thus indicating that this was a rogue operation done under the noses of Holder and company – demanding that Holder and his staff resign immediately.
Frankly, I’m getting more than a little tired of the political posturing on both sides in these show trials. This is the sixth time Holder has appeared before this committee, and Cong. Issa should have more than enough evidence to cite him for contempt of congress. Holder’s attitude is telling, being basically “F&^k you, what do you plan to do about it while I hold this stack of race cards with the media and a presidential pardon in my pocket?”
It does seem to be dragging on an inordinate amount of time, with hearing after hearing. (aka dog & pony show)
And has been unfortunately reduced to arguing over the release of thousands and thousands of internal DOJ emails that are or are not covered by some kind of privilege, depending on your point of view.
Those kinds of arguments suit the federal bureaucrats just fine & can be dragged out for decades, or until Nov. 2012, whichever comes first.
If you draw it out, you can taint the entire election year with it – and both sides get to ignore other important questions like what is going to happen to all these young adults who can’t get a job and why does the TSA get to put its hands up my little girls’ skirts and how come we’re giving welfare to GM and BofA. Tea Party needs to wake up and clean some more House this year.
This doesn’t look, feel, smell like a law enforcement project. It has all the earmarks of a community organizer’s project. Plant evidence, stir up trouble…point at the trouble. The harder the 2nd amendment defenders argue, the more you point at the trouble. Until they capitulate.
From the getgo of the unraveling of F&F, I’ve read that the identities of the cartel honchos were already well known, at the highest levels, on both sides of the border, including the FBI.
And that the type of weapons provided in F&F were not of high interest to the cartels, that they got much more desirable weapons from other sources, e.g. those coming up through Central America.
And that there were few to no efforts to actually trace the F&F weapons once they’d crossed.
Former Tucson DEA head: Holder either knew of gun-walking, or was willfully unaware
When NASA policy was changed from “pursuing manned space flight” to “outreach to Muslims” it was not necessary for the MSM to tell anyone that this policy change came from President Obama; only the POTUS can change or set the policy of a federal agency. If someone at NASA had attempted to do that without presidential approval – they would have been shot down – nobody would have obeyed orders which went against agency policy which was set by the president.
Fast and Furious involved policy changes from previous operations at the ATF; without the direct approval of the POTUS those policy changes could not have occurred. There is no possibility that Obama was not involved.
Obama’s thinking on the current stonewall action at DOJ is: “If they can’t get Holder, they can’t get to me.” Which is why there will be continued 100% support of Holder from the White House, and no possibility of a special prosecutor etc.
Everybody is forgetting about operation “Gangwalker”; where guns were being walked to domestic gangs. I suspect Fast and Furious was simply a lower risk foreign prototype operation meant to debug multiple “Gangwalker” type programs by seeing what sort of problems occurred before the large scale gang arming programs went into effect.
After all can’t have a domestic security force “as large, as well funded and well trained as the military” unless there is a real threat to domestic safety.
Scary. And the funding for that army is given right in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare)which is being implemented right now – despite its challenge in the Supreme Court.
Maybe it will be more politically valuable for Barry to wait and get Holder’s resignation during the general election campaign. It will be a handy diversionary tactic at some point during the campaign when he is feeling heat from the Republican challenger.
“But Barack Obama is a Democrat, and black.”
Stop this nonsense right now! He’s HALF black…..the other half is white. He was raised by a white mom and white grandparents in an overwhelmingly white state while attending primarily schools attended mainly by white kids. You all have bought into the false story line so deeply that you don’t even think about the falsity of the statements you write!
I’ll have to both agree and disagree with you. The casual observer looking at Pres. Obama would immediately identify him as a black man. As such, I’m sure that he has encountered many of the “not-like-us” attitudes common to the minority experience, regardless of his parentage, home, or school. That said, however, I’m also sure that much of his “blackness” was consciously nurtured, in response to feelings of otherness, in an effort to connect to his absent father, in an act of rebellion against his family, to be “cool”, for personal, professional, and/or political expediancy, or, most likely, a combination of all these.
When he was in Congress did Obama belong to the Congressional Half-Black Caucus? When will the president be announcing the HalfAfricanAmericansForObama.com website?
Yes he is half white but also all socialist or communist if you prefer and for that reason alone I am against min and any current policies or future one. Thankfully he is going around campaigning (mostly spreading more lies) and this not doing as much harm as he could while campaigning or even worse re-elected!
Wouldn’t that be HalfricanAmericansforObama?
Nice deflection there LE. Way to go off topic. But do tell what high school did your Dear Leader attend? We’ll wait…..
“Stop this nonsense right now! He’s HALF black…..the other half is white.”
This would only make sense if he hadn’t received 98% of the black vote in 2008. Or if he were a Republican. Neither is true, so it doesn’t make any sense at all. He’s a Democrat, and he’s black enough.
I like the concept of “competent media.” It’s a lot like “virgin hookers.” Until the election, we will learn more about the minutia of the Republican candidate’s past life with complexly formed suggestions of pure evil.
Details of fast and furious, Bam’s college and medical records, Illinois bribes and pay offs, ongoing union thuggery, etc. will all go untouched. There will be hundreds of these weasels in Mexico trying to dig up dirt on Romney’s grandfather and we’ll learn from seven witnesses how he once hit a mule with a stick.
Once the Republican wins and Bam is flushed, every captive media outlet will become MSNBC and we’ll have constant criticism of everything (make that) EVERYTHING the Republican or his staff does. The only good thing about this is that it will cause the media to disappear quicker. “Competent media,” my aunt fannie!!
“Who conceived an operation that depended upon the deaths of hundreds or thousands of Mexican nationals for its success?”
—————
I can’t help but wonder, what kind of god does that person/s worship.
/but perhaps I’m assuming too much
If, as is almost certain, operation Fast and Furious and other similar programs originated from the president, then why should anyone be surprised?
Operation Fast and Furious consists of a segment of an advertising campaign to promote the restriction or abolition of the right to bear arms for self defence.
It effectively consists of conducting mass-murder, upon Mexicans.
The president, when he was a state senator, in Illinois, voted against a bill which provided protection to babies, who had survived an abortion attempt.
Regardless of one’s view on abortion, if the baby is breathng on its own and is separate from its mother, most people regard it as a human being, in its own right. A human being possessed of all human rights.
Obama disagrees. Or, he rejects the concept of fundamental human rights.
Why would anyone, prepared to vote for infanticide, worry about mass-murder of Mexicans, or any one else, for that matter.
Obama is a marxist. Marxists believe that all individuals are unimportant and are expendable in the interests of ‘the cause”.
His current attack upon the conciences of Catholic and christian employers indicates that he is not too concerned about freedom of conscience, either.
The flawed constitution, of mostly negative rights…..
An indication of who may have had prior knowledge of the nature of the operation may be inferred by noting who made speeches blaming 90% of the murders in Mexico upon guns procured from legal gunshops in the USA.
This discredited statistic was used by many people.
When was it first used?
Who used it?
What facts were used to support it?
I do not think that it was just Obama. I think that many senior people in his administration were actively involved.
Here is the 4 th question that needs addressed:
If Mexico were running thousands of guns into this country, and it contributed to a crime wave that cost 3000 American lives and the destabilization of entire states….wouldn’t our .gov be screaming about it? What back room deal has been done that is so sweet that it would make the Mexican government fall essentially silent on this issue? Put yourself in the Mexican’s shoes, wouldn’t you be close to calling this an act of war by the US, wouldn’t you be screaming from the rooftops about foreign intervention in your own system of government…..the slaughter of thousands of your citizens…… wouldn’t you?
Hasnt this “shoe on the other foot” scenario been happening already, except with drunks and cars instead of firearms?
Outstanding!
Yes, it’s about the same. But our government isn’t screaming and neither is Mexico’s. Why not?
May 20, 2010, Mexican President Felipe Calderon lecturing US at a joint meeting of Congress on Capitol Hill in Washington.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/05/20/mexicos-calderon-takes-case-congress/
From the above link.
“Calderon called on Congress to reinstate the assault weapons ban. ‘The Second Amendment is not a subject open for diplomatic negotiation, with Mexico or any other nation,’ Cornyn said.
He said the United States must stop the flow of assault weapons and other arms across the border.
The Mexican leader found an ally at the White House Wednesday, where Obama is pressing lawmakers to take up legislation that would deal with security, employment and citizenship issues.”
Well, lookie here. Again, who does this benefit? Gun controllers win if gun sales can be derailed, and Democrats win if illegal immigrants can vote….I cry foul ball.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/feb/7/administration-names-official-advocate-illegal-imm/
looks like the republicans don’t want to really address this.
the impeachment procedures are well over-due.
the rule of law has been abandoned by all of congress with the possible exception of a handful of the conservatives.
I have a feeling that Holder is indispensable to Obama because he knows where the bodies are buried in far more matters than this. They go way back.
“There is also the possibility, however, that Mr. Holder is quite well below the person who approved the operation and was aware of it.”
DoJ, DHS, State Department and Treasury (IRS) bureaucrats all knew about it. Lifetime bureaucrats want to protect their own jobs (nothing wrong with that, I do to) and so will not, on their own, generally engage in risky policy. And while the occasional one might, you are not going to get lifetime bureaucrats from four separate cabinet level agencies to coordinate on a very risky policy on their own. This had to be a political appointee level policy. And you aren’t going to get such a level of cooperation from lower level political appointees across four cabinet level departments without the heads of those departments dictating action. And you aren’t going to get four cabinet secretaries devising a policy without their boss knowing about it. (If I were president and I had these guys going rogue on me, I’d fire them on the spot.)
Eric Holder belongs in jail as an accessory to murder. As does his boss.
I understand that Brian Williams is anxious to cover this story. Therefore, I offer this script at no charge. This should cover it….
“Partisanship charges, and even charges of racism, continue to swirl around the head of Republican committee chairman Darrell Issa and his controversial committee’s probe into the Justice Department’s alleged slow speed in the handling of it’s investigation into how Mexican drug cartels were able to obtain hundreds, if not thousands, of guns purchased by cartel purchasers at Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona gun shops. These cartel buyers, also known as “straw purchasers”, apparently were able to make their gun buys with no difficulty from American gun shops located near the Mexican border. Senator Dianne Feinstein has been joined by other Democrats in full support of the investigation by Attorney General Eric Holder while at the same time requesting the end of Republican Chairman Darrell Issa’s committee hearings which they say is an impediment to the work of the Department of Justice. When we return we will ask the big questions about how messy a Hollywood divorce can become.”
With that the NRA can’t continue to whine that the story has not been completely covered by the MSM.
Why not draw some conclusions from the act and the cover-up?
There is a disdain for the system and due process here. The originators see the anyone disagreeing or question as the enemy, deserving nothing, having no rights.
It is always us versus them seeing enemies everywhere: if you are not for us you are against us. Forgetting of course, like Nixon, that they cover-up kills and the longer it goes on the stiffer the consequences.
The key lesson should be that, for now, we share a political system with people who want to destroy it and the values or negotiation and compromise, giving us a totally political system where they are free to impose their will on the rest, without any restraint.
Never forget that one of the proximate issues of the Civil War was the imposition of one group’s will on others through the courts, like the Fugitive Slave Act.
“He is also well aware that an ongoing, long-term political scandal is just the kind of public relations nightmare he does not need as he enters his reelection campaign season in earnest.”
The media are also aware, which is why they will refuse to investigate this story and will condemn all who try to shed light on it as ‘racist’. Failing that, they will point to the Bush administration and get cover that way.
There is no scandal if the people don’t know what happened. Nothing to see here, let’s move along folks.
Holder is safe, and so is Obama. Their media shields are impenetrable.
As a professional historian I’d consider that the planners were fools and then had to go into CYA mode.
Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, Deputy Secretary of State Jim Steinberg and Deputy Attorney General David Ogden held a news conference to announce the U.S.-Mexico Border Security Policy.
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/MexicoBor&start=800
If Eric Holder did not know about the gun running tasks of the ATF, why did he give this speech in 2009?Attorney General Eric Holder at the Mexico/United States Arms Trafficking Conference CUERNAVACA, MEXICO ~ Thursday, April 2, 2009
http://www.justice.gov/ag/speeches/2009/ag-speech-090402.html
Obama Administration Seals Court Records of Agent Brian Terry’s Murder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01fe9XIFEBU&feature=player_embedded
“But Barack Obama is a Democrat, and black. Also, Eric Holder is a Democrat, and black. It is inconceivable for the mainstream media to grill the decisions, motives, or goals of black Democrats for fear of being “racist” according to their own definition of the term, which is criticism of a minority member who professes the “correct” political ideology.”
Et tu Bob Owens?
When Pastor Wright opened his garbage mouth with “them Jews” every eyes turned to candidate Obama for the Presidency of the US. This was the man he called his Spiritual Mentor who married him, baptized his daughters, he cheered for 20 years every “Them Jews” rant. But before anyone could ask him anything Obama had a speech ready for just such a case. He made his Philadelphia speech on race. This was the perfect straw man. No one asked Obama how could you cheered this “spiritual Mentor” of your for 20 years? Everybody feared being labeled a racist and Obama the anti- Semite ended up the President of the USA. Indeed Mr. Bowen why did you remain quiet then? I immediately posted my view on this and no one lese did. In fact I view Obama as smoke and mirrors, never the real Obama. Listen to Obama speak to a general audience he sounds like the run of the mill generic American. Listen to him speak to a Black audience and he sounds like he was born in South Central L.A.’s ghetto. Have a look at Obama descending the ramp of Airforce one. Le looks straight ahead, not at his feet and not holding the ramps very fast. He trained to do this acrobatic stunt. A past President fell flat on his face while descending cautiously while holding the ramps. Obama himself is a show of smoke and mirror that you see, never the real Obama. I am an ex- Democrat who will vote for anyone running to replace Obama. Nobody else can be as a bad as Obama.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Given the support for gun ownership as a basic right from readers of PJMedia I would have thought Holder should have been complimented not condemned. Ship a million firearms to Mexico. Isn’t that supposed to deter criminals?
Not when the guns are deliberately given to criminals, and law abiding Mexicans are prohibited from owning guns. Sorry, you failed.
I have to believe that holder would still fall upon his sword for “the one”, the one thing our traitor-in-chief can NOT allow is records being released that he knew. THAT will lead to criminal charges.
1. Who conceived an operation that depended upon the deaths of hundreds or thousands of Mexican nationals for its success?
……
knew that the crimes in question were likely to be murders of Mexican nationals or U.S. citizens along the Mexican border ….
Those whose ideology is stronger than the ethical behaviour taught in a Judeo-Christian culture.
Surely if one looks back on history one sees that this is the same manner of action of extremist totalitarian thinking?
Those murdered in the name of this regime are expendable.
John Boehner is stalling further investigation and prosecution of Holder. For whatever misbegotten reason he thinks that F&F is a political loser. The only way this makes sense if is his preference is for elected Republicans to shovel in crony benefits at the government trough instead of expanding the reach of freedom and truth and justice in these United States. He’s part of the problem here and must get out of his position of responsibility.
http://www.westernjournalism.com/john-boehner-to-halt-fast-and-furious-investigation-sell-out-to-holder-and-white-house/
To #33 DEEGEE,
You sound dumb enough to have voted for Obammie, didn’t you?
Is there any difference between a frontiersman defending his property during colonial and post colonial times and shipping high powered rifles (including 50 cals) to the Zeta Cartel? Hell no, according to DEEGEE. My only hope is that you ARE NOT somehow involved in the education system in this country.
The terrible thing is that you’ll probably reproduce.
The left’s GENOCIDAL tenancies are beginning to show: “Operation Fast and Furious was conceived knowing that Mexican nationals would be sacrificed in significant numbers if the tracing operation had any chance of working.”
Lives mean nothing to leftists, as long as the deaths further their political objective.
I will not be accused of over thinking this but it looks to me like nothing more complicated than the Democrat party providing operational supplies to their fund raising arm. The Chicago way is always about the money. Incidental carnage is just part of the deal.. It’s just business.
F&F is an enigma wrapped in a riddle. But when the truth comes out, it will be simple. Brilliant humans who lie, always wind up looking simply stupid. It is vital to stay with facts, and reject false, easily rebutted, suppositions. Thus I concur with the above comments, as sharpened here.
At this time, race can not be considered a primary motivation. Obama, Holder, and Congressman Cummings are all black, but they simply come from that segment of American society who holds power. This should not have been brought into the analysis; it is, at this point, a serious diversion.
Any reading of the national press, by a knowledgeable person, must lead to the conclusion that the MSM reporting is filled with falsehoods, and is not giving a fraction of the coverage that a constitution crisis warrants. There is a wealth of evidence that serious felonies were commited by the police powers of the federal government. This is an “above the fold, War is Declared” stuff. Yet today the Washington Post still reports that 90% of the guns involved in Mexican crimes were purchased in US gun stores. This was sloppy journalism a year ago, in 2012, it is either a lie, or Democratic propaganda, take your charitable choice. At my family Christmas gathering, I surveyed a score of college educated adults from many states. No one had ever heard of “Fast and Furious”; it is not burned into American awareness as “Abu Ghraib”, “Gitmo Water Boarding” or “Virginia Tech shooter”. It does not exist.
This explains Obama/Holder’s tactics: Deny any knowledge; it is a non truth, until after the election. Here again I disagree with Mr. Owens. The question of who is responsible has been clearly posed; it simply can not be answered without accusation, or admission, of serious criminal conduct. Honesty and competence have been ruled out.
If I was the Republican candidate, I would not raise it, the issue is not ripe, for the voters. If DoJ is led by crooks, they will not investigate themselves. The sole solution is a new management. But the people involved are highly trained lawyers, and know their vulnerabilities. There is no statute of limitations for being an accomplice to the murder of a border patrol officer, and the first to sing, skates. No amount of dissembling gets you out of the cold box.
Our problem is almost biblical in scope. From F&F, through climate change, to Obamacare, we are experiencing a melt down of our professions: journalism, science, medical care givers, even religion. It is both weird and unnerving, and an environment in which liars thrive.
Stay focused Mr. Owens: America needs you.
You said it yourself Bob…
Øbambi tore through local, state, federal offices, then onto the highest office in the land at blinding speed, a speed so great that it belies his competence and abilities in the extreme.
To say Barry Hussein Øbama might be a Post Turtle is like saying that the Pope might be Catholic.
A number of things come to mind. First, I do believe there were 2 fed agents killed, the 2d was killed in Mexico when the car he was riding in was strafed by an assassin with one of the guns provided by the ATF. Second, I keep resenting the concept that Obama is black. In truth he is a mix, just like my son who is part white (me) and part Asian (his mother). By no means would he be called Asian. FInally, it seems to me that the evidence against these people is so strong that if we were in the 1920s, Holder and his crew would have been taken out into the courtyard and shot. At the very least, the House of Reps should call everyone in the DOJ that was even remotely involved in this and put them under oath. If the witnesses refuse they should be charged with contempt.
R.L., re: “Our problem is almost biblical in scope. From F&F, through climate change, to Obamacare, we are experiencing a melt down of our professions: journalism, science, medical care givers, even religion. It is both weird and unnerving, and an environment in which liars thrive.” Thanks for putting into words something I have sensed intuitively for a long time… your analysis is right on the mark.
Cfbleachers, re: “Work through this slowly. “Identifying the user” is a head fake. They KNOW the user…hell, they SOLD to the user. And…300 dead Mexicans are crimes we can’t investigate. What’s the play here? THAT’S the coverup.” Operation F&F was never about enforcing the law; it was about going around it in a way calculated to better advance Obama’s agenda. It is clear that Obama knew of the op and greenlighted it, so did Holder and Napolitano. All three should be in the docket facing criminal charges, but unfortunately we no live in a nation governed by the rule of law. Obama and company have become the law, and it is whatever they say it means, until a stop is put to it. There’s the rub, because no one in a position of authority seems to have the cojones to do the job. And so it goes…
Imperative that the media keep hammering at these questions! Great article! Well presented!
Of course the media did not ask embarrassing questions. To understand why, it is necessary to understand the purpose of the media.
Contrary to what is widely believed, the purpose of the media is not to educate and inform the public. Rather, it is to maximize profits from advertising. To do that, it is necessary to maximize audience size by entertaining the public and avoiding saying anything that might irritate the public which could cause the public to stop watching or reading. Once that is understood, it is easy to see why the media behaves the way it does.
Just read this, is it true, is Boehner cutting a deal? I hope not, people died, this is serious, no deals, Holder must be held fully accountable.
“The terms of the betrayal John Boehner is currently putting together:
The Committee will accept the scalps of [Lanny] Breuer and [Jason] Wienstein, DOJ will release enough of the (documents) to condemn them, claim cooperation (thus giving the appearance of recognizing congress’s oversight authority), and Holder will survive – looking like a “leader” for offering them up (along with a few lower level ATF and DOJ folk). The Committee will chalk one in the “Win” column for oversight and holding people accountable. DOJ will have the same for cooperating and accountability. (1)”
http://www.coachisright.com/john-boehner-to-halt-fast-and-furious-investigation-sell-out-to-eric-holder-and-white-house/
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2012/02/sipsey-street-exclusive-meet-silent.html
Commenters,
Have each of YOU written YOUR Congressman/Senators about F&F? If you haven’t, stop reading this column and start writing. NOW!
Clearly, Eric Holder’s DOJ is culpable.
Eric Holder is either up to his eyebrows or he is completely incompetent. Either way the door should have been hitting his ass on the way out months ago.
Now, remind me again why Alberto Gonzales was forced to resign ? The non-lethal dismissals of nine United States attorneys, while Holder’s actions or inactions have lead to the death of at least one Border Patrol agent and the reported hundreds of deaths of Mexicans.
Perhaps resignation is too light for Mr. Holder. Seppuku is probably in order. Or perhaps, as a gesture of humanity, he should be extradited to Mexico.
Lets see who gets elected as Mexico’s president in July. If I were Holder I would crap my drawers if its Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador (of the unfortunately leftist PRD). He’s less of a dim-bulb than the PRI and PAN candidates, and owes nothing to Obama or the Bushes. I’d give him Holder for public execution if assures us he doesnt go all Hugo on us.
Exactly right. Malfeasance or nonfeasance, take your pick. Either he’s corrupt as hell and needs to be prosecuted, or he’s incompetent as hell and needs to be fired. Personally, I’ve got all my money down on the first choice.
That “I didn’t know” defense pisses me off. It’s your f*%#ing job to know, A$$hole. That’s why you’re in charge.
cfbleachers – I tried to leave a response earlier and dont see it up now. I probably forgot to hit submit.
Your careful reasoning is correct and invaluable. You reach the same conclusion that many of us have intuitively, but intuition is worthless without the kind of research and careful reasoning that Bob Owens, Howard Nemerov, and practically every writer at pjmedia publish; not to mention valuable comments such as yours..
The gangwalker scandal is solid evidence that you are correct about their intentions.
Now that the Terry murder has derailed their plans and revealed what they have been up to, publicizing fast and furious guns that show up at crime scenes will only make them look bad. Now they are going to have to cover them up. I can only find where 11 such guns have shown up here in the states, but i would guess the number is much higher. I would have no idea how one could find out the true number, but my money is on the justice dept. covering them up from here on out.
I always thought there are three questions to be asked about any coverup scandal. And they are always the same three questions.
1) Who knew about it?
2) What did they know about it?
3) When did they know about it?
Has the full force of absurdity hit anyone regarding this egregiouis violation of law and the public trust by the Obama Administration?
An “attempt” to take down the drug cartels by tracing weapons used in crimes to them?
Two things come to mind: 1) How would they trace teh guns to anyone by any method at all? 2) the biggest question: They already know who the cartels are run and owned by, are we to assume that the DOJ and FBI would just waltz into Mexico and arrest these people? Don’t they already know they’re guilty of numerous crimes, especially murder? Why do they need to trace “illegal” weapons to them? But then, how is anyone to believe that the Obama Administration has people that would go into Mexico and arrest anyone??? It’s so incredibly absurd on its face, I cannot believe anyone could seriously consider it.
Eric Holder, the entire staff of the DOJ, and the entire Obama Administration are guilty of multiple counts of Treason against the United States and the Constitution, period.
In the beginning, from what I understand, was a ploy to prove that we shouldn’t have guns; however, it came back to bite them in the a..s. The only thing they have proven is they’re aren’t responsible enough to have ANY access to guns. It was botched from the very beginning. They didn’t keep up with “who” was getting the guns much less how many people were murdered before Brian Terry. Brian Terry, God Rest His Soul, stood up for the LAW; and was murdered which in my mind makes Holder and Obama complicit in Murder of a law enforcement officer.
What is the penalty for that?
I am in law enforcement.
There is no legitimate law enforcement strategy or rationale that has as a feature of a clandestine operation the systemic failure to interdict with an arrest when contraband placed in process through straw purchase goes outside of surveillance. None. People should go to prison.
sir:
an extremely cogent and lucid parsing of this horrible scandal.
it should end with the impeachment of holder and obama, and their disgrace.
john jay
milton freewater, oregon usa
p.s. congress should waste no time in returning a bill of impeachment against holder and obama. i differ only in one aspect of your analysis, as i strongly believe that hilary clinton is implicated in this mess as well, and was coordinating w/ messieurs holder and obama to get anti-gun legislation passed and/or to get the u.n. gun trafficking treaty endorsed by our senate. the writing is plain on the wall.
#4. Who thought that arming ATF Agents in an atmosphere where they COULD be facing deadly weapons with BEAN BAG guns was a good idea? I am betting it is someone who has never been anywhere near where their butt might be on the line.
I bet if that bureacratic moron had the guts to “Go into the field” they would have been surrounded by black mask wearing, MP-5 bearing, so they could look daring.
It might take a family member of one of the 301 people Holder and Obama murdered pulling a “Law Abiding Citizen” gambit to bring them to justice.
To put it in perspective, Ted Bundy, the Son of Sam, Jeffrey Dahmer, Albert Fish, John Wayne Gacy, and Ed Gein COMBINED committed 2/3 FEWER murders than Barack Obama is directly responsible for. That Obama murders with a pen is irrelevant.
By not doing anything so far, it’s Congress who should be blamed for the Fast and Furious fiasco. They are complicit with eric Holder for not doing anything. Issa and Grassley are just a couple of Good Old Boys and don’t want to rock the boat too much.
This is a directed comment for Sunny D – sorry about the time lag but I was busy at the paint store trying to separate black from other shades of darkness!
SunsetDistrict,Inc.- when you hear the word dam do you think of home?
I mean how difficult is it to find an honest law enforcement beaver in the atmosphere of F&F – the question is – are you a beaver with something to say?
Grading various types of ganja doesn’t really set you up as a desirable informant – your knowledge of the product types does seem to place you in the progressive grouping – but are you a busy beaver in the our twisted Justice Department – with a strong desire to cleans your soul?
Were you dodging bullets with that Clinton woman in Bosnia – are you possibly a State Department beaver with knowledge of times and dates that could help in the identification of other liars involved in F&F?
Try to apply a bit of understanding here Sunset – talking this mess to death is one way to approach it – but when you are dealing with communist progressive types water boarding would get rid of these racist rat bags a lot sooner!
Just so everyone will be clear…. ATF’s eTrace is a simple computer system which can only trace a firearm to the first purchaser – and no further. If the gun is transferred to someone else (even 10 other people), then tracing will not show it. Thus, it is impossible to track Fast & Furious guns to anyone “higher in the chain”. If such a gun is recovered at a crime scene in Mexico, none of the intermediate owners can be identified. Claims that the guns were to be used to “take down a cartel” are total nonsense.
Even if one of the Fast & Furious guns was transported to Mexico, then comes back to the United States to be found at a U.S. crime scene, no one has any way of knowing the gun went to Mexico.
In the last twenty years I’ve read of bizarre schemes, usually lethal, hatched by young people, which have no chance, whatsoever, of working. Taking out a million dollar policy on your parents on Monday, killing them on Tuesday, and demanding that payment, on the policy, be forthcoming by Friday, would be in keeping with this, “I’m smarter than them”, type of thinking. The Menendez brothers are a good example of this sicko, stupid, mind set. But the country, thanks to bad parenting, bad teaching, not correcting them when they’re obviously, wrong, is filled with yahoos, who think like this. I’m, therefore of the thought that Fast and Furious was a result of this type of faulty thinking. And that Obama, and Holder, plus their many Czars, are in the grip of such nonsensical thoughts, at this very moment, and are unable to extricate themselves from such thinking. Do not be surprised if you learn that he has brokered a deal to supply Nuclear bombs to Kenya, for instance.