Europe’s Estrangement from Israel
I am standing in a queue waiting to buy a train ticket from London to Canterbury. A well-dressed lady standing behind me informs her friend that she “can’t wait till Israel disappears off the face of the earth.” What struck me was not her intense hostility to Israel but the mild-mannered, matter-of-fact tone with which she announced her wish for the annihilation of a nation. It seems that it is okay to condemn and demonize Israel. All of a sudden Israel has become an all-purpose target for a variety of disparate and confused causes. When I ask a group of Pakistani waiters sitting around a table in their restaurant why they “hate” Israel, they casually tell me that it is because Jews are their “religion’s enemy.” Those who are highly educated have their own pet prejudice. One of my young colleagues who teaches media studies in a London-based university was taken aback during a seminar discussion when some of her students insisted that since all the banks are owned by Jews, Israel was responsible for the current global financial crisis.
Increasingly expressions of aversion towards Israel have assumed the status of a taken-for-granted sentiment in many sections of polite European society. Such attitudes are underwritten by powerful cultural forces that communicate the idea that Israel is a malevolent society sui generis. It alone faces regular demands for academic and commercial boycotts. In the media and popular culture it is often portrayed as an intensely racist and barbaric society. Once upon a time its opponents depicted Israel as a guard dog of the West; these days they are more likely to castigate it as the biggest threat to world peace and stability. For a variety of reasons, Israel has come to bear the cross of all of the West’s sins. In Europe in particular, there is a powerful sense of weariness towards Israel. “If only it would go away, then we would have a chance for peace in the Middle East” is the fantasy view of some European officials and writers. Europe’s population agrees. Islamic terrorism is often portrayed as the inevitable consequence of Israel’s policies.
Great article Frank.
Some good points, but I would take issue with this:
in England some teachers are reluctant to discuss the experience of the Holocaust in the classroom in case it alienates children from a Muslim background
In fact, education about the Holocaust is compulsory, up to fourteen, after which some pupils may or may not opt to do history GCSE (public exam), and, if they do, may or may not opt for the elective on that period of history.
The author’s misinformation – widespread and bandied about all over the press – is based on a story in the Mail, the Telegraph on the Guardian, which was corrected. The Holocaust Education Trust issed a correcting statement, cofirming, inter alia:
“The Holocaust became part of the National Curriculum for History in 1991. It is statutory for all students in England and Wales to learn about the Holocaust at Key Stage 3 usually in Year 9 History (aged 13-14).”
More here.
Of course this would change if Muslims in sufficient numbers were able to influence the National Curriculum. I doubt the Holocaust is taught in Muslim majority countries. Even though it is taught up to about the age of 14, the fact that Muslim pupils still deny it suggests that the home and mosque have more influence than the school. And there is no decent teaching about the creation of Israel, about which the British public – even if they do not bash Israel – is generally completely ignorant.
I expect some Jewish guys will move from anti-Semitic Europe to America. The guys like Einstein, Bohr, Born, Ovshinsky…
While it is easy to rail against the Jews over money, banking etc., the key to all of this is, have you ever worried about a Jew wanting to kill you? People of all countries better keep it clear in their mind, AFTER the Jews, these animals are coming for the rest of us.
No, they just hate Jews. They hid it for a while. Now they can be open about it again.
Good article.
Another point to note is that many European nations tolerated for several years even after 9/11/2001 terrorist groups like Al Qaeda cells, Hamas, and other fundraisers. They held a mutual understanding that the terrorists wouldn’t be bothered as long as they didn’t strike on European soil.
This article is not even close to examining the whole problem of the Islamic invasion of the west. The muslims do not seek to immigrate to integrate. They are here to build an islamic society complete with sharia law and to those easily swayed into politically corrrect thinking, once they realize this it will be too late. In the USA they are already existing in enclave communities that are just as radical as Gaza. In fact look at the protests here in the USA during the recent invasion. America needs to wake up to this threat and quit allowing radical muslims to set the agenda. If they don’t accept the jewish/christian values on which this country was founded, I do not think they should live here. Period!!!
“Other headmasters echoed this sentiment, claiming that they were putting children’s safety first. Apparently they are worried that the enrollment of Jewish pupils would upset those of Arab descent and that such tensions could provoke violence.”
This is what happens with liberals. They capitulate and appease and relent and surrender and retract and retreat AD INFINITUM. Their poison makes my skin crawl. In fact, they are a medical miracle- invertebrates who can stand and walk.
Unfortunately, Europe has over a thousand year history of Jew-hatred (the term anti-Semitism is way too genteel) which I had naively thought had disappeared after the end of World War 2. It is shocking to hear the old canards, stereotypes and lies being uttered, not just by simpletons and the unreconstructed, but by educated professional people.
I suppose the appropriate response to those people on the train who couldn’t wait for Israel to be wiped off the map would be to stick around. England itself will be wiped off the map shortly thereafter.
As I think Adorno commented, reconciliation with the Jews would not in itself salve the German conscience nor wholly redeem that nation after WWII, strenuous though those efforts were. Other ‘undesirables’ were also murdered as the direct result of their origin, and the larger motivation behind the impulse to annihilate would have to be tackled at root. However, as I understand it, Anti-Semitism is very likely the first step into a structural way of thinking that itself leads to further condemnations; it’s the hallmark (regardless of the specific reasons behind it at any one historical point) of political and personal irrationality, and the sign of a rapid descent from a necessary self-reflexivity that maintains realistic relations with the world.
Unfortunately, the student left in Germany, at least during my experience of its activists during the first Gulf War and Intifada, had not learned this lesson: the contradictory daubings on campus buildings of ‘No Blood for Oil’ and ‘Arm the Intifada’ were statements about seeing the Palestinian cause itself as the benchmark for a whole raft of notions, at the risk of entering that portal of political irrationalism and violence again.
What Europe is itself divided over is not Israel and the Palestines as such, but rather the same as the proxy forces in the continuing intellectual struggle to imbibe the lessons of its own colonialism. This colonialism could be seen as the end point of European civilisation and its civilising mission, but it was also without doubt highly destructive and destabilizing. Europeans are at once Jews and Muslims, Israelis and Palestinians, even both Jews through Palestinian eyes, as well as the latter through Israeli eyes.
The balance at the moment seems simply to favour the exoticization of Palestine over the once powerful over-identification with the young Jewish state.
Sadly, Jew-hatred never goes away – it just mutates. Israel bashing, and brain-dead coddling of Muslims in the name of multi-culturalism, are just new versions of an old story.
Jews are not, and never have been a threat. They are the most productive and peaceful of all peoples. Muslims, on the other hand, are a threat wherever they live, so it is best they stay in their own countries.
Just when you think that Islams hatred of the Jews is the mother of all hate in the world take a peek at what is lurking just beneath the surface in Europe. A few years ago our Euro bretheren were baking Jews in ovens and using there skins for lamps. And that same Euro scum (and there numbers are huge) still hate the Jews and would rather side with Hamas. A twisted mindset of a people who would hate a Jew and embrace Islam whose mission is to destroy them. They deserve everything they get. I hope Islam destroys Europe and guess what there half way there.
What good is it teaching about the Holocaust, if you’re going to support the destruction of Israel?
And this time, Europe can’t whine, “Oh, oh, we just didn’t know what was going to happen with all this Jew-hate!”
Re … “Europe won’t be able to say “..
Wanna bet?
Much of it is due to those horrific scenes on television of the many Palestinians, women and children included suffering at the hands of the Israelis. What these people do not know is that Hamas uses these innocent children as pawns and shields in their dirty war-games and to witness firsthand the seriously bloodied images of these innocent beings at war-time is enough. By the same token these same people who would like to see Israel taken off the map would not even guess what it might hsve been like if the shoe fitted the other foot and it were the Arabs who were the ones with the upperhand and the massacre and slaughter that would have been the scene before their very eyes! Have these people so easily forgotten those blood-curdling scenarios of Daniel Pearl and all those other innocents being blindfolded and beheaded cold-bloodedly not so long ago by Arab/Muslims…? or the notorious 9/11 catastrophe when just such Muslims clapped and danced in the streets over it… nor the heinous massacres that took place from Bali to Belsen and London… or the horrors of initiating Arab/Muslim fury and their many Demonsrations…? It seems they have forgotten all and only proves more so that such as this woman sure must have short memories and few if any in possession of those grey cells else they would have been able to accept the fact that perhaps it is ‘Little Israel’ after all who is today fighting Hamas which is only a Prelude to tomorrow’s Iran. Of course we must not forget that Arab/Muslim Propaganda Machine which works at a tremendous pace and succeeds most proficiently in their anti-Jewish twisted information in order to support their political ideals of the destruction of the Sovereign Jewish State and an Islamic one in its place. This all adds up tremendously – as would those famous fictional Protools of the Eldars of Zion …. to aid Europe’s estrangement from Israel.
I learned in elementary school that surrendering to bullying only leads to more bullying. Yet somehow Europeans continue to fail to learn this lesson. And this time, America lacks the patience to clean up the mess.
The Europeans have a successful history of appeasement. That’s why they never had World War I or II fought anywhere near their soil. Using this successful strategy they will avoid WWIII.
The Saudi Wahabbis give big payouts to American politicians and professors who are in a position to influence public opinion. Note that Clinton revealed that his library fund received $25 million from the Saudis plus millions from other Arabs. Hillary has been bought and paid for as was Carter.
8.Craig….excellent description of the problem with libs.
I guess it’s becoming official now: the EU does indeed have a death wish, at the feet of the Islamists.
It has never worked to negotiate with sheer evil, but that doesn’t mean that stupid, stupid, fearful leaders won’t keep trying to do it.
I’m a Dane and grateful for those Danes who are responding to this crap in their schools.
Unfortunately, by the time the lilyhearted, buckling-at-the-knees liberal leaders have started verbalizing their fears, their stupidities and their submission to the enemy, it’s generally way too late to turn the ship.
Jews will begin to return to their historic homeland, Israel, when oppression from Muslims and liberal western governments (including America) becomes intolerable. Cowardly liberal governments lacking the moral fiber and intestinal fortitude to defend Jewish citizens (and forcibly confront radical Islam) will give the jews no choice but to exit to Israel, their only earthly haven. They will take their wealth and creativity with them, causing Israel to flourish and the west to diminish. May God cause great shame to befall those governments who trade their Jewish citizens for “peace” with Islam.
Some of the comments here about a Europe a despicable, and reminds me why I gave up reading US blogs a couple of years ago. Ignoramuses. JJ Sefton, TomJW you’ve got plenty of Jew haters in America too, maybe more. You had institutional and legalised racism in your country, even after you freed the slaves. Old habits die hard!
Islam will have to be confronted, it’s beliefs and and it’s teachings must be examined if we ever hope to protect our citizens from the danger it poses. The fact that punishment for leaving Islam is death should be a warning to us what other peoples in the world have had to endure under the thumb of that all encompassing religion and governing system. Islam understands that in order to further its power, it must confront and fight the Judeo/Christian civilizations.
It is possible that Europe is the most anti-Semitic continent on earth, but I doubt it. Does Jew or Israel hate exist in Europe? Sure, but it is clearly alive in America as well, in addition to Jewish intellectual circles. In fact, as one reads the Jewish bloggers, the only conclusion one can draw is that most Jews (80% of America’s) have abandoned Israel. If difference of opinion with Israel equals anti-Semitism, the Jew / Israel hating crowd is an interesting collection of individuals and countries.
I have been reading European newspapers for years. I think journalists conveniently omit facts to make their case for whatever cause they deem vital. I sincerely desire I’m mistaken, but blaming all Europe, or all — your most favorite anti-Semitic country here — for being anti-Israel or anti-Semitic is counter productive.
A few months ago Jerusalem Post ran an article about Israel’s plan to recruit former Swedish kibbutz volunteers for Israel’s spokesmen. Good luck with that now that Sweden is the most anti-Semitic country in the world, after Denmark, Finland, Norway, Italy, UK, …
It is up to Israel to do whatever is best for her people. The same applies to all countries. In her article yesterday, Caroline Glick expertly painted the picture of what happens when you tell America, “Up Yours!” She also wrote the truth, “No one, not even our friends, will fight out battles for us.”
This exactly what Kissinger suggested: countries don’t have friends, just interests.
Europeans for centuries have managed to distance themselves from Jews, whether it be through common laws, pogroms, libels, holocausts, inquisitions all part of the legacy of European estrangement from Jews. European Muslims feel somewhat appeased because they’re free to practice their hatred of Jews in an organized and legal fashion with impunity, just like they did back home before immigrating to Europe. A common disdain of something unites two groups that would otherwise not cross paths, but will overlook those differences when it comes to shared condemnation.
The Europeans are fundamentally cowards. Why fear a Jew who will just talk you to death when there are far more Moslems in the world willing to kill you even if it means killing themselves, use their kids as bombs and control your energy. Europeans are simply taking the easy way out, sacrifice the Jews to the Moslems so they will be left in peace.
The European bet is that once the sacrifice is made they will be left alone.
Nearly half of American Jews reject the Israeli bombing of Gaza. Anti-semitism? No. Dissent from Israeli policy. Jews don’t appreciate being held hostage to policies that create more anti-semitism, anymore than Americans in general appreciate being held hostage to pre-emptive invasions and bombing in Iraq. Anti-Americanism? No. Dissent from American government policy.
The strength of democratic western nations, including European nations, is their ability to tolerate dissent without spiraling into violence. The moment we, as westerners, succumb to the demonization of those who dissent from government policy, we become Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran.
Anti-semitism is not defined as dissent from government policy. But stereotyping and hatred of entire peoples based on their location, ethnic population and religion is definitely bigotry. While we decry anti-semitism, let us remember that invoking anti-semitism to demonize Muslims is no different.
It’s oh so easy for people who don’t have kassam rockets raining down on them to pass judgment. Israel has shown remarkable restraint since relinquishing control of Gaza to the Palestinians. Let’s hope they finish the job this time.
European societies just want to lie down and die in peace. Having forfeited their future, all they have is today – they’d rather not see anything upset it. (Of course there are individual Europeans who are exceptions. I salute that honorable minority.)
“Nearly half of American Jews reject the Israeli bombing of Gaza. Anti-semitism? No. Dissent from Israeli policy. ”
no, it’s called “oslo syndrome”. It’s a derivative of self-leathing and stockolm syndrome.
There are a lot of westerners that tells us that we have to admire cultures that think that stoning adulterers is a great idea. That is called self-loathing. Does this make any sense? no, but it happens. The answer is that western culture feels ashamed of the wealth it is able to produce.
It has more to do with psychological self-repression than anything else.
“Jews don’t appreciate being held hostage to policies that create more anti-semitism”
antisemitism has been there for more than 2000 years, way before the creation of israel
“anymore than Americans in general appreciate being held hostage to pre-emptive invasions and bombing in Iraq. Anti-Americanism? No. ”
antiamericanism is envy of previous owners (the brits lost a colony). Again it’s the anger over something that you lost.
Hardly what you can call “genuine feelings”.
“The strength of democratic western nations, including European nations, is their ability to tolerate dissent without spiraling into violence.”
I still see calls for sharia in the uk after londonistan backed down after the tube bombings.
I still see muslims obsessed in getting back andalusia after spain backed down after the madrid bombinb.
“tolerating dissent” translates into the muslim language as “weakness”.
It is without doubt that western europe is the weakest link.
“While we decry anti-semitism, let us remember that invoking anti-semitism to demonize Muslims is no different.”
there has been no reprisal virtually to any deadly anti-western attack by muslims.
There has always been a reprisal to any “perceived” offence from muslims.
The other side doesn’t understand kindness or mercy. They see it as weakness.
People who thinks like yourself are part of the problem, not of the solution. I have a feeling that when the times gets tough you will be one of the many crying out and praying for outside help. Just like you did with hitler.
Mr Furedi:
“Such attitudes are underwritten by powerful cultural forces that communicate the idea that Israel is a malevolent society sui generis.”
Atop a bedrock of anti-semitism is overlaid a very big Euro Guilt Trip.
Let’s be honest here, the Europeans never had to really pay for the horrors of the Shoah…they simply rounded the Jews up out of the camps and shipped ‘em off to Palestine/Israel, where they connived at the displacement of the Palis.
Is it any wonder that the Euros wish that it would all just go away?
And they take it out on the Jews because Jews are less likely to riot and behead them.
Hey, if they like, I’d happily favor a swap…the USA will take all of Europe’s Jews, if Europe will take all of America’s Muslims.
Until then, I can dream of the day when Israel declares war on France and hands them their ass on a plate…
People like “mountainaires” are products of moral relevancy, their pacifism deeply rooted in cowardice and an unwillingness to accept the basic precept of good and evil . In the end, Europe and possibly America will pay for their failure to defend peaceful and productive Jews while embracing wicked and brutal Muslims. Pacifist collaboration with Islam will portend their own destruction, at the hand of the same evil they willingly embraced.
This is why the U.S. must shift its entire economic (and other) focus away from “dying” Europe (old and new) and towards the Pacific Basin. Europe will drag us down with them. We must detach from them. We have much more in common as a nation with the PacBas countries. Even the hostile ones. We know where we stand with them and we can do business with them.
We must also, as a nation, recognize that Islam is not a religion. It is a cult disguised as a religion, but designed to, in the name of religion, acquire power. Raw power. There is no freedom or allowances for this in our Constitution. If we, indeed, began to strictly enforce freedom of religion, there would then be major conflicts with Islam within our nation. ie, protecting Islamic people who want to convert to Christianity or other non-Muslim religions. Aggressively insuring that they know that they have the right to do this. Also, strictly enforcing bigamy laws. DD
Europe can go screw themselves as well as the United Nations. Nice hit on UN facility in Gaza only because Hamas was firing from there, it is Hamas fault the UN in Gaza got hit. Israel does not need Europe or the UN. They should ignore all UN resolutions like Iraq and Iran have. Israel can and will go alone to take care of themselves, they have the conventional and nuclear firepower to do so if they really want to unleash it. Europe is being overrun by Muslims and within 10 years will be a non-factor in the world.
Hey now that the UN in Gaza is damaged maybe the UN should move their headquarters from Gaza to Southern Israel or the Israel/Lebanon border and they can see what dodging rockets 24/7 is really like. They are as pathetic as Europe and the left in America, a bunch of crybaby wimps.
Bilgeman 28, I’ll second the motion on that trade. And we can throw in the UN Headquarters to sweeten the deal.
Mike,
“Europeans are at once Jews and Muslims, Israelis and Palestinians, even both Jews through Palestinian eyes, as well as the latter through Israeli eyes.”
right !!!
____________________
Jay, not only Billary, it’s continuing since 1945
http://www.amazon.com/Thicker-than-Oil-Americas-Partnership/dp/0195167430
http://img129.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bushkisspe6.jpg
“he will “refuse to accept the wishes of Jewish parents” to place their children at his school because it would create tension with the Muslim children”
If the Muslim children are the ones who have the problem, why not refuse to enroll Muslim students? (yes, that was a rhetorical question) Remove the agitator, not the victim…
It really does boil down to fear. The Muslims will riot, bomb and otherwise hurt you. Christians, Jews, and Westerners in general are a more civilized people. I long for a leader with backbone like Churchill had to rise once more and save us from ourselves.
This is a great article. It is true that Israel is not making it easy on themselves when they bomb UN headquarters for example…I’m intrigued on what Obama will have to say ounce he takes over…
http://mylifeiscrap.com
It is simplistic to confuse anti-Israeli sentiment with anti-Semitism. Although I am sure not absent, in the UK, as in the US, prejudice against Jews falls well down the pecking order with many groups in front: Asians and Muslims, Black, Polish, and anyone generally different from oneself. Even with numerous scenes of dying children on our TV screens, I am confident that the dominant attitude in the UK is still that Israel is ‘like us’ (western and white!) … and, with Afghanistan and Iraq behind us, the idea of the UK ‘appeasing’ a Muslim lobby is risible. The surest way to eradicate anti-Israel sentiment on the bus stop is not to rail against an illusory anti-Semitism, but for Israel to act as a God fearing nation.
I have to say I am astounded my the pure idiocy of Europeans.
Israel’s existance is the only thing that is protecting Europe from an all out hostile INVASION of Muslims into and over Europe. Israel is NOT the cause of Mideast violence, clearly ISLAM is the cause of violence in the Mideast. Israel is REACTING to it.
If Europeans are truly this stupid, then they deserve to lose everything including their lives, certainly by assisting Islam in attacking, berating, castigating, and otherwise blaming Israel for everything, they are literally hastening their own deaths.
Europe is apparently full of idiots, I hope they are investing in Burkas for their women, apparently they are going to need them.
Bilgeman 28….what you suggest is excellent.
“Redeem Israel, O God, out of all their troubles!” Psalm 25:22
“It is simplistic to confuse anti-Israeli sentiment with anti-Semitism.”
There is considerable overlap between the two, whether you admit it or not.
“The surest way to eradicate anti-Israel sentiment on the bus stop is not to rail against an illusory anti-Semitism, but for Israel to act as a God fearing nation.”
Is “Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the gas” an example of “illusory” anti-semitism? And does “God fearing” mean that Israel lets Hamas rockets rain down on its citizens without doing anything about it? Do you consider Hamas to be “God fearing”?
banking? that is minor cabal. the real evil jewish plot, is the psychotherapy plot. almost all shrinks are jewish. you know dr phil changed his name from dr. philiSTEIN. ahhh haaa see that proves it.
ok, enough with the humor. 2 points.
1. eurpean diplomatic success with muslims is to arrange to be the last infidels beheaded.
2. the hatred and racist bile spewed by anti semitic europeans and the USA’s left is ugly. however not as ugly as the hatred and racist bile displyed by commenter’s postings at this site aimed at muslims and latinos, particularly mexicans. how many more times will pjm moderators allow these loon toons to say in various ways all muslims and their countries should be eliminated?
this article is really the kettle calling the pot black.
both the left islamic appeasers, and the self hating facist american social right are equally evil and racist. both need to be purged of said evil and replaced by a much more liberetarian conservatism, or liberalism as the case may be. certainly the culture warrior hatred we see from both sides is not worse than euro hatred of jews. myself, i would never never ever vote for an evangelical again. jewish, muslim or christian, if you think god talks to you, your are nuts. it does not matter if you are jimmy, the village idiot, carter, g. w., misunderestimated, bush, or hammi the suicide bomber. all three are nuts. flip city loons.
maybe evangelicals and muslims could get help from all those jewish psychologists, surely is is needed. likely lobotomy is the only answer.
One should not forget bad faith over the Holocaust. Europe aspires to be the moral legislator for all humanity. Since its main contributions to political history in the C20th were Leninism, Fascism, Marxism, two World Wars and the Holocaust, its history is a Bit Of A Problem. And the Holocaust most of all.
Hence equating Zionism and Israel with Nazism. Jews as victims has all sorts of bad historical resonances.
Europe cannot overcome Muslim “anger” any more than one can pay off an extortionist. Islam is an angry, violent religion for angry, violent people.
Nothing Europeans do, other than turn themselves over to Islam and become slaves to the imams, will ever suffice.
Just pathetic.
The hatred of Jews resides in the multicultural Left of the West and that is a cultural poison pushed as a peaceful healing balm in all Western Nations. Wherever there is the Left (fascists and communists), there will be tribalism’s power structure and the hate, fear and jealously that unites it and fuels it for leftist power. The common theme of all the multicultural race tribes is a hatred of Jews.
Jewish Leftists have had a large hand in the Left’s cultural cleansing of Western culture and law and the replacement with amoral humanism where there is no right and wrong – only what the Leftists say is right and wrong as it serves their power. Liberal Jews have served as the Israel haters’ appeasers and justifiers.
Humanism is and unethical and soulless culture of communism – not democracy and freedom. Western culture is the culture of capitalism and freedom but the Left has successfully cleansed it from government and private institutions and law over the past fifty years.
>>>>>Jews don’t appreciate being held hostage to policies that create more anti-semitism,
SOME Jews don’t.
Those are the same Jews who, historically, followed the “Sha, sha” — “keep quiet, keep quiet” — policy. That is, laying low and taking it without hitting back, lest hitting back “create more anti-semitism” and make things even worse.
Others Jews, however, try to hit back without caring if those who want them dead will hate them a bit more.
>>>>>>>>banking? that is minor cabal. the real evil jewish plot, is the psychotherapy plot. almost all shrinks are jewish. you know dr phil changed his name from dr. philiSTEIN. ahhh haaa see that proves it.
The sad thing is, many people believe just this and worse about the Jews, so “gcblues” had to explicitly say he is joking. There isn’t any accusation about the Jews he could have possibly written that would be recognizable as a spoof without being labeled as such. Anything about the Jews is already believed by many, no matter how absurd.
To gcblues’ comments..The Dr. Phil comment is not funny. Just a random slam. Where is this thing about Mexicans? Oh, do you mean the “illegals?” Well, pardon me, but you just contradicted your meaningless premise about a country trying to protect itself. Jews as having a monopoly on psychology is almost as idiotic a generalization as Jews having such on money. IF you were informed about how the world works, you would have the humility to see things as they are. And sorry, but lobotomies have not been performed for decades. When you are learned enough to speak intelligently, check back. This forum is for INTELLIGENT conversation and disagreement, not for hateful blatherings from hydrocephalics.
The Europeans are either “wolves in sheep’s clothing” by contracting their hate out to islam via proxy technique thereby avoiding being directly involved or are “sheep in wolves clothing” and they “just want to lie down and die in peace. Having forfeited their future, all they have is today – they’d rather not see anything upset it.”
I feel its closer to the middle, “Europeans are simply taking the easy way out, sacrifice the Jews to the Moslems so they will be left in peace. The European bet is that once the sacrifice is made they will be left alone.”
Its really just a battle of tipping points and the euro strategy is that the jews will reach theirs first.
gcblues, if liberty is not a right granted by the Creator, then it is a privilege granted by the State that can be revoked at the whim of the State. A nation that refuses to be ruled by the Lord will be ruled by tyrants, and people will ask for those tyrants because tyranny is better than anarchy. If people don’t choose to do the right thing, that is, submit themselves to the Law of God voluntarily, the victims will demand a government strong enough to compel people to do the right thing. Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty, but a sinful people must be subdued by government.
BTW, Philistines were the ancient enemies of Israel.
Y’know, racist and pro-genocide utterances are actually against the law in many of these countries. Couldn’t *true* liberal groups try to have charges brought against some of these people?
I know, I know – they wouldn’t succeed. But they might least EMBARASS the hell out of these moral and spiritual heirs of Petain, Mosley, and Quisling.
None of these washed-up, clapped-out European pricks have the spine to try and finish the job their grandfathers started by actually going to war against Israel. More’s the pity; they could be taught a valuable lesson.
Skeptic @ 45 says “Others Jews, however, try to hit back without caring if those who want them dead will hate them a bit more.”
If someone wants you dead, and makes every effort to kill you, why should you care if attempting to defend yourself makes them hate you more? Sheeeesh!
#20 marvin – You are right. The U.S. did take a long time to finally end slavery. The difference between us and Europe is that our heinous sins were corrected by us ourselves. No one had to come here and correct it for us.
Contrast that with Europe. WE put Hitler out of business. Sure, you contributed, after Hitler gave you no choice, but we CHOSE a policy of “Hitler first”. We didn’t have to. WE ended the USSR, despite all Europe’s lack of support, and even opposition. The list goes on of America’s achievements in promotiing real liberty throughout the world. When some country needs real liberation, everyone looks to America to do the main part of the dirty work.
We are stretched thin, now. There is a real humanitarian disaster going on in Zimbabwe, but no Euro nation would think of intervening. God knows, they have the power and wealth to step in, but they would never, ever consider it.
#41 gcblues – The evangelicals are not racists and haters. We hate the sin, not the sinners. The muslims are the enemies of the entire world. They have declared this themselves. They shout it from the rooftops. They intend to enslave the world. This is their stated goal. Islam is a fascist theocracy. We hate their crusade; their jihad.
As for our opposition to Hispanic immigration, it is only opposition to illlegal immigration. We want to be able to choose who gets invited to our house. Illegal immigration has a terrible cost to our country. We don’t hate the people, just the damage they cause to our homeland. No one wants to shut off immigration, just control the flow; to stop the flooding. We want a dam.
Your apparent contempt for religion is typical of graduates of our universities. This complete secularization of our society is the reason we are so much worse off than 50 years ago. When religion is looked upon with embarassment or contempt, then there is no moral authority. Either we accept a Higher Power as moral authority, or we must come up with our own. Who is to say that your authority is greater than mine? It then simply becomes a matter of who has the power. Do you really want a society where only the powerful decide what’s morally right and wrong, and a standard that changes with a change of who’s in power? That is why religion has such a civilizing effect: there exists, then, a higher moral authority.
As to the article, people subscribe to anti-semitism, because it becomes fashionable to do so. After a time, however, the lies come to be believed….
Hey, got any Muslim pacifists handy.
Mountainaires:
I believe you are right that half the people claiming Jewish ancestry oppose Israelis destruction of Hamas. By you are mistaken if you believe it has something to do with morality. These so-called Jews are desperately attempting to hold their place in the so-called progressive left and they fear that the existence of a Jewish state will result in their expulsion from the left.
This is not a new phenomenon. Jewish progressives remained loyal to the Soviet Union during the period of the alliance with Hitler. Despite the fact the this alliance led to the Holocaust itself. Jewish progressives delude themselves to believe that classical Fascism is anti-Semitic and the Marxist variant of Fascism is their savior. The reality is that besides the Nazis no other form classical Fascist movement was truly anti-Semitic. Mussolini passed some laws and purged the Jews from the Italian Fascist part (Yes, until 1938 many Italian Jew were Fascists) but he never implemented measures to deport or intern Italian Jews. It was all for show. Franco saved tens of thousands of European Jews and Antonio Salazar of Portugal open the gates to as many Jews who get there. Jews also conveniently forget that “Progressive” Sweden sold raw materials and military supplies to Nazi Germany until virtually the end of the war and allowed the German military to use Swedish territory. Progressives are intrinsically anti-Semitic. Jews are the politically dumbest people in the world. The Rosenbergs went to their death defending Stalin while he was planning to finish the job Hitler started.
#41 gcblues
You wrote:
2. the hatred and racist bile spewed by anti semitic europeans and the USA’s left is ugly. however not as ugly as the hatred and racist bile displyed by commenter’s postings at this site aimed at muslims and latinos,
Did anybody express their wish to send Muslims or Mexicans to the oven or gas chamber – as your friends shriek on youtube?
Care to quote some?
Have you seen the bile hatred on signs held by your illegal Mexican friends and your beloved raging terrorist? Why don’t you paste the hateful messages that your friends the Muslim imams and the illegals spawning endlessly in every American city?
Before you censor other posters on this forum why don’t you learn decent English, using spell checker and learn the rule of capitalization. You appear to be an uneducated dimwit.
Jay:
The Saudi Wahabbis give big payouts to American politicians and professors who are in a position to influence public opinion. Note that Clinton revealed that his library fund received $25 million from the Saudis plus millions from other Arabs. Hillary has been bought and paid for as was Carter.
Both the Saudis and dual-loyalty Jews have too much power over American politicians. On the Jewish side of influence peddling and bribes, look at how AIPAC threatened then proudly brought out 420 members of Congress and at public rally to support Israel’s war against Hezbollah in the summer of 2006…or all the Jonathan Pollard (Soviet& Zionist employed spy) pardon petitions signed by Congress Reps.
Israel can and will go alone to take care of themselves, they have the conventional and nuclear firepower to do so if they really want to unleash it.
No they don’t. Their survival rests on the US, hopefully the West and Russia and emerging great powers China and India backing them. On their own, they are just another sh*tty little country without the resources to overcome another oil embargo or concerted military campaign without resupply from other nations. And the fantasy of unilateral Israeli nuke weapons use would be swiftly ended with the nightmare of nuclear retaliation on a very small, almost uniquely vulnerable to nukes, nation.
Vaughn:
While it is easy to rail against the Jews over money, banking etc., the key to all of this is, have you ever worried about a Jew wanting to kill you? People of all countries better keep it clear in their mind, AFTER the Jews, these animals are coming for the rest of us.
There are ways to destroy people without physically killing them. Just ask Bernie Madoff’s clients, or the pension funds George Soros wrecked.
As for Muslims coming after us, they are no existiential threat in any military scenario I’ve ever seen, to the West. In fact, a responsible leader in any Western nation would say that Muslims killing a few are less of a threat than nefarious forces that cause economic catastrophe to all…or a series of swindles that wrecks Western confidence in capitalism and drives the masses to social progressivism.
SCREW WEST EUROPE! Their done giving their collective contribution to mankind. All they can give now is war, destruction , and hatred (often based upon racial lines). Think about it, over the last 100 years we Americans have found ourselves bailing out an insane Europe bent on killing itself. The Holocaust, Hitler, Communism. Great job Europe. You’re done. Let them rot.
Look, we in America have our hands full with Jew hatred too. I know it’s much more widespread in Europe, but there are many reasons for it. I prefer to focus on what the Israel hating in the U.S. has in common with the Israel hating in Europe. It is not difficult to pry out of the miasma: Marxism and its hatred of Western Civilization, as exemplified in the way Judaism AND Christianity have refined the heritage we have from ancient Greece and Rome.
The phenomenon is more widespread and deep in Europe and not for one moment do I think it primarily has to do with appeasement. Europe IS more Left-leaning – although we are catching up quickly.
Marxism + Islam = the Unholy Alliance. That is the Satanic force that we are dealing with, and probably failing to to hold the line against.
It’s an open question: Will Western Civilization survive or is it in decline?
It could be that neither God nor the State are the grantors of liberty. Ayn Rand certainly believed there was another option.
On subject, Mark Steyn provides strong factual support for Frank Furedi’s thesis with a study of the demographics of western Europe in “America Alone”. This book gives plausible explanations for the cowardly choices made by all of western Europe in the last 20 years. Before we Americans get too puffed up with our righteous indignation, maybe we should look in the mirror and see the same cowardice on display recently.
really get real of of u. Niels Bohr would never move to USA. he is my guy u got it? Niels Bohr was never challenged for being jewish. I am jewish so I know what I am talking about. I have never experienced hatred from any one. yr website only spew hatred towards the non jewish people. if u truly want to be honest report honestly. perhaps my e-mail wont show thats ok because then it will show u are bias. I am for the human beings not for ideology.
There’s been some jokes about trading US Muslims for European Jews. And a few people taking it too seriously. In that light I have another serious point.
While a lot of European Jews would gladly emigrate, US Muslims DO NOT want to go to Europe. In the US we have problems with some minorities which choose not to integrate fully into our society. But that is nothing compared to the complete lack of integration in Europe. In Europe, citizenship is not automatically available to resident aliens after x number of years. In being born in France to non citizen parents does not accord French Citizenship. I could go on. Wikipedia French Nationality Law if you want more examples.
…and they call us racist…
Europeans seem to fall for the same propaganda time and time again concerning the Jew. First it was the Germans. Europeans fell for their propaganda hook, line, and sinker. Now to avoid any problems with the Muslims, the Europeans are doing it to themselves this time.
I have not ever, here or elsewhere, advocated the liquidation of Hispanics and Muslims. As a Catholic, some things are simply morally repugnant. We are taught that. Now I may hate Islam, because I see it as the Devil’s work and as an inhuman, totalitarian cult, but I still believe – I HAVE TO BELIEVE – the Muslims can summon great courage and brave the penalty for apostasy. Yes, I see Muslims as my enemy, but I do not call for mass murder. In war, nations like the United States and Israel take extraordinary measures to avoid, as much as possible, noncombatant deaths. And if you compare how we fought WWII with how we are fighting the Muslim terrorists and their state sponsors, we are not firebombing their cities.
As for Hispanics, for God’s sakes man! They are of a common religion and from our common civilization. They are Catholics and mostly conservative, here mainly to work and escape poverty. I agree that we must not allow illegal immigration. The solution to that is to have an organized, rational system of guest workers and an orderly fair process to obtain a green card. Defend the borders, but not countenance bigotry against these people when we do let them in as legal workers. And they must be here to work, not go on the dole. Their employment must be verified and when it is terminated they must go back to Mexico or Central America, unless they have a green card to stay and show that they are trying to obtain employment and obey the law.
I’m Republican and conservative. I’m not any of the stereotypes that Thomas in #54 is taking apart. Glad that he took that one head on.
I draw the line on Islam and Muslims. I don’t want them in our country or our countries. They are mainly here to spread the Ummah’s dominion over the earth. Keep them confined to their lands. Their religion is uncivilized and barbaric.
European’s casual denigration of Israel reminds me of the last 8 years of liberals casual denigration of George Bush. It might be dismissed as garden variety scapegoating, except that their common attribute of appeasement and avoidance of conflict, by avoiding setting legal and cultural limits with muslims, is so obviously suicidal it is remarkable, even incredible, considering the history of most of the 20th century.
I wish “cedarford” would make up his mind: EITHER Israel is a “sh*tty little country” on the verge of collapse, OR it is an all-powerful conspirator that controls the world through AIPAC, the USA Senate, Madoff, etc. It can hardly be both, though it could be neither.
This self-contradictory view of the Jew as being both a pathetic worm and, at the same time, an all-powerful monster, is the very essence of antisemitism.
I would like to stand up for the British people. The vast majority are not anti-Semitic.
Many schools still organise trips to the war graves in France and the former Nazi concentration camps in Germany.
People are still proud that our country stood up to the Nazis in WW2 while large parts of Europe didn’t bother.
As a country we were still paying for WW2 up until a few years ago.
People are angry that innocent people are being killed in a one sided war. Just like they were when we invaded Iraq or on 9/11.
Ian — I fully agree, but it’s the screaming minority that’s causing all the problems.
“The Europeans have a successful history of appeasement. That’s why they never had World War I or II fought anywhere near their soil. Using this successful strategy they will avoid WWIII.”
though you couldn’t help, you had to show off your big void hole, that replaced your brain
dumb e,
There’s been some jokes about trading US Muslims for European Jews. And a few people taking it too seriously. In that light I have another serious point.
While a lot of European Jews would gladly emigrate, US Muslims DO NOT want to go to Europe. In the US we have problems with some minorities which choose not to integrate fully into our society. But that is nothing compared to the complete lack of integration in Europe. In Europe, citizenship is not automatically available to resident aliens after x number of years. In being born in France to non citizen parents does not accord French Citizenship. I could go on. Wikipedia French Nationality Law if you want more examples.
…and they call us racist…
your making a serie B : travelling, panoramic view, zoom on an hexagonal point, how astonishingly, the Frenchs !!!
what an obsession across the pond !!!!
I’m telling you a joke too : imagine that some of your fellahs (uh, notice the use “some” here, not the generallistic “the”) also prosed the exchange of our presidents, Sarkozy would go to the US, while we would get your metissed president, isn’t it funny !!!
the the parallel with your story is quite funny !!!
now, if your Muslims don’t want to come over, it’s because they are “highly educated”, most of them studied in Europe, where they couldn’t find a job that fits their qualities, cuz the positions are already hired, while, according what I read on many conservative blogs, your educational system doesn’t make brains draw forth anymore, so that your purchasing them from the “old world”…
Don’t be confuse, our french Askhenasi are here, since at least the french revolution, they have the highest positions in our medias, universities, liberal professions… and mostly also are secular, they are what we say well established, I doubt that they want to emigrate !!! while our sefarades are here from the independance of our north african colonies. their tie to the “Metropole” aren’t well defined, still in the nomadic process, they are mostly trading businesses with no borders, if they feel that there is a good opportunity to live in your country, with no sorrow they’ll go, like their lately settlement in Floride. They also are the ones that are the most targetted by our Muslins, as they used to know well each others in Northern Africa, the Muslins can’t stand that they succeded better than them in our “equalitarian” country !!!
now, check the video that any African candidate to the french citizenship has to vision before he/she is accepted, it concerns more the black Africans, who bring many wives, brothers, cousins, etc…
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x301f5_film-vivre-ensemble-en-france_news
Europeans being anti-semitic? Why, that’s almost as crazy as saying water is wet and the sky is blue. Oh wait…
Of course Europeans are anti-semitic. Look no further than their stated viewpoints whenever Israel is forced to act. They pile on the condemnation when Israel defends itself after terrorists launch unprovoked attacks, but remain awfully quiet in regards to those terrorists’ attacks. Those instances by themselves make for a very long list.
Fun fact: there wouldn’t be anywhere near the violence there is in the Middle East if not for those murderous thugs that surround Israel. Israel didn’t start any of this. They were attacked like the day after they officially became a nation and have been forced to defend themselves virtually everyday since.
Frank,
A brilliant piece. You articulate so well the shock I personally feel each time I go out in London and am bombarded with ‘the Jews elected Obama so he will be beholden to Zionist money’ etc.
I was pleased to be on the August 22 BBC Radio Four ‘Any Questions?’ panel with you, Frank, and am so glad we are both being read on Pajamas Media, which seems to welcome voices from all political threads — more than can be said for the Guardian !
Incidentally, Robert Fisk, of all people, lambasted the Palestine-supporters in his most recent columns for what he sees as anti-Semitic rhetoric when they lump the Holocaust and Naziism with Israel:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fiskrsquos-world-when-it-comes-to-gaza-leave-the-second-world-war-out-of-it-1418270.html
20. marvin:
17, 2009 – 7:39 am
Stick it marv. Europe has a long history of hating and murdering Jews. A few people aren’t perfect here in the States? That’s no reason for pulling the moral equivalency card. It’s completely dispicable to do it.
Start protecting Jews and making them feel safe in Europe rather than rationalizing with the Moslems or blaming everyone else because they aren’t perfect, you putz.
28. Bilgeman:
17, 2009 – 10:15 am
Great idea on the switch. We would do very well and Europe gets to commit suicide sooner, a win-win scenario. I don’t believe all Moslems are uniformly fanatical, but the fanatical parts are still part of their religion and insures that there will usually be trouble when they mix with other religions and cultures.
37. AD:
“…the idea of the UK ‘appeasing’ a Muslim lobby is risible.”
Jan 17, 2009 – 12:08 pm
Other than the fact that Britain has allowed sharia courts in family matters, that statement would be laughable. Yeah, it’s only brown women being enslaved, so what do you care.
gasbag marie claude still here telling us that french sh** doesn’t stink.
Why don’t you go out facing the hordes of muslims, instead of patronizing that in your country everything is perfect?
We know the answer: french cowardice
#66 Ian:
“I would like to stand up for the British people. The vast majority are not anti-Semitic.”
I’d like to, also, being a bit of an Anglophile, and haing served alongside the gallant “7th Bats” in Desert Storm.
But the Limeys blow hot n’ cold, y’know?
When they stand up, they’re the most dependable crew to “have your back” going.
But when they don’t…well…that exchange between those two dames that Furedi related in the story…who ARE those people?
I’d like to think that they’re certainly NOT British.
Sure, the UK has a hostory of anti-semitism, but it’s a genteel kind of “snubbing at the club” sort of thing…no pogroms or camps on England’s fair soil…ever.
And when the chips were down, and it REALLY counted, be it remembered that every Jew whose feet hit King George VI’s realm was SAVED.
Yet a few decades later we hear of this kind of rot?
For shame.
Britannia…remember who and what you were, and strive to be that once more.
susan why you don’t post on pôvre_conne.com, your missed over there
#61 e:
“In the US we have problems with some minorities which choose not to integrate fully into our society. But that is nothing compared to the complete lack of integration in Europe.”
Islam is a different kettle of fish altogether, chum.
To an observant Muslim, a convert from Islam to another religion is an apostate and merits a death sentence. That we countenance a religion where you can get in, but you cannot get out is simply incompatible with Liberty.
Add to that feature the dogmatic proselytization of their belief…they are literally called upon to convert the entire world to Islam.
By contrast, so are many Christian faiths, but there is no pain of death ban on leaving the congregation…it’s a well-known fact that Protestants, as they climb the socio-economic ladder, tend to move from Baptist and Lutheran to Episcopalian and Presbyterian congregations, and it’s no biggie.
Jews are a remarkably NON converting-the-heathen lot. In fact, from what I’ve discussed, they rather discourage it.
Now on the one hand, we could restrict immigration to Muslims who would agree to forsake the tenets of their faith and the commandments of their Prophet, but this would be also totally and four-square at odds with Liberty.
Or allow them in, and do nothing while they convert anyone and everyone they can, and murder those who try converting out.
The best answer that I can come up with is that they stay where Allah put them…or emigrate where, perhaps, Liberty is sacrificed for the perception of multiculturalism and diversity. (France seems to serve that purpose well).
“There’s been some jokes about trading US Muslims for European Jews.”
Who was joking?
#76 Bilgeman says “Sure, the UK has a hostory of anti-semitism, but it’s a genteel kind of “snubbing at the club” sort of thing…no pogroms or camps on England’s fair soil…ever.”
I wish this was true but it isn’t. Look into the massacre of Jews that happened in London and York:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_England
Jews were also expelled in 1290 and residence was relatively restricted. Jews were only allowed to sit in Parliament in 1858.
I am a Canadian but I lived in England for a couple of years. IMHO,
Jews in Britain have an uneasy existence and an ambivalent relationship with Zionism. It’s too bad because Jews have contributed enormously in many fields.
gasbag marieclaude why don’t you post at cowardsrus.com, they are looking for new qualified members.
I like that idea of trading U.S. Muslims for European Jews. I have no pity for Europe in what I see is going to happen in the coming decades. They decided decades ago to go with the Marxist cue and ally themselves with dar al Islam. I am a big believer that adults should live with the consequences of their decisions.
Unfortunately, Gramscian Marxism (also known as cultural Marxism) has jumped The Pond and for three decades now has been gaining numbers and influence here in the U.S. Something like 43% of Americans side with the Palis against the Jews. Thirty and forty years ago it would have been maybe 15%. So, the trends are not favorable.
Great piece. To the commenters above, here is something that all Europeans should read that appeared in 2005 by
Sebastian Villar Rodriguez, a Spanish journalist:
“Europe died in Auschwitz
I was walking along Raval (Barcelona) when all of a sudden I
understood that Europe died with Auschwitz.
We assassinated 6 million Jews in order to end up bringing in 20
million Muslims!
We burnt in Auschwitz the culture, intelligence and power to create.
We burnt the people of the world, the one who is proclaimed the
chosen people of God.
Because it is the people who gave to humanity the symbolic figures
who were capable of changing history (Christ, Marx, Einstein,
Freud…) and who is the origin of progress and wellbeing.
We must admit that Europe, by relaxing its borders and giving in
under the pretext of tolerance to the values of a fallacious
cultural relativism, opened it’s doors to 20 million Muslims, often
illiterates and fanatics that we could meet, at best, in places
such as Raval, the poorest of the nations and of the ghettos, and
who are preparing the worst, such as the 9/11 and the Madrid
bombing and who are lodged in apartment blocs provided by the social
welfare.
We also have exchanged culture with fanaticism, the capacity to
create with the will to destroy, the wisdom with the superstition.
We have exchanged the transcendental instinct of the Jews, who even
under the worst possible conditions have always looked for a better
peaceful world, for the suicide bomber. We have exchanged the pride
of life for the fanatic obsession of death. Our death and that of our
children.
What a grave mistake that we made!!!”
Europe will pay for it’s mistake and the USA will be alone in the world by the middle of this century, and onle God knows about what will be of Israel.
Fortunately, we are nearer the time when most Europeans, except the dimmest of Leftists will recognise the deep danger Islam poses to our civilisation. Then the deportations will begin. Europe must choose its own immigrants and they should be of a Judeo-Christian background. Get the boats ready.
#79 DD:
“Look into the massacre of Jews that happened in London and York:”
Ouch.
Allow mw to amend my comment.
Strike:
“…no pogroms or camps on England’s fair soil…ever.”
and replace with:
“…no pogroms in nearly a thousand years, and no camps on England’s fair soil…ever.”
That oughtta do ‘er.
Morry, while the text is a kind of elegy to “the people of the world”, and not questionable, I think some histoical precisions are needed to understand the raisons why this muslim immigration became a “necessity” in the sixties :
“We must admit that Europe, by relaxing its borders and giving in under the pretext of tolerance to the values of a fallacious cultural relativism, opened it’s doors to 20 million Muslims, often illiterates and fanatics that we could meet, at best, in places such as Raval, the poorest of the nations and of the ghettos, and who are preparing the worst, such as the 9/11 and the Madrid bombing and who are lodged in apartment blocs provided by the social welfare.”
You are not ignoring that in WW2 most of the continental european countries experienced “bombings”, especially France and Germany (Poland, Italy…), where cities,and infrastructures were completely destroyed. The Marshall plan was ment to reconstruct them as well as the economy.
At the same time France had to bear 2 more wars, Indochine and Algeria, when mens that could have rebuilt and modernised the country were busy abroad. So we can say that until the end of Algeria war, there were no modernisation on the way, just the necessary reconstructions of inhabitations and infrastrucrures.
Then the sixties and seventies are considered as the decennies of modernisation of our country. New buildings, motorways, roads… in every cities were ordered. There were not enough men for the job, I recall that France was mostly a rural economy, whose energy was horses and bulls,thus the available lbour force was busy in the fiels, and couldn’t be hired for urbanistic works, the mechanisation of the countryside also started during these years.
According to this economical context, the state had to hire the maghrebin unskilled force as “manoeuvre”, that was already speaking french and had the habit to work or fight with (or against)the Frenchs. Though these men were hired with contracts, and came over as single.
It was the sentimentalist manipulations of the left associations and medias that make the Giscard d’Estaing government vote a law that allowed the “Regroupement Familial”, the maghrebin workers were allowed to have their families come into France. (also in the other european countries)
There was no major problem with them until the mid-eighties, and the nineties, when the first terrorist attacks occured in Paris. From then it has worsened.
here is a link in french that explains quite well the “derives” of the system and their fatidic grades in subvertion.
http://servat.rene.free.fr/immgration.htm
Marie Claude:
“You are not ignoring that in WW2 most of the continental european countries experienced “bombings”, especially France and Germany…”
Not France.
France capitulated so quickly in 1940 that there was no NEED to bomb their industry. And in 1944, Patton ejected the Germans so quickly that again, there was no need to bomb the joint much.
“At the same time France had to bear 2 more wars, Indochine and Algeria, when mens that could have rebuilt and modernised the country were busy abroad.”
Bombing OTHER people, and then surrendering and running away…
“According to this economical context, the state had to hire the maghrebin unskilled force as “manoeuvre”, that was already speaking french and had the habit to work or fight with (or against)the Frenchs. Though these men were hired with contracts, and came over as single.”
Oh, knock it off, Marie! The French got fat and happy from their socialist largesse and decided that they were too good to do their own scut-work.
It’s the same reason Americans wink at illegal immigrants…we don’t WANT to pick our own food, cook in a restaurant or scrub our own toilets.
Laziness, pure and simple.
I mean, really, girl…you’re making a total fool of yourself by trying to compare the bomb damage in Paris or Lyon to what we and the Brits did to Berlin…Dresden…Hamburg…Schweinfurt………
Not. Even. CLOSE, mam’selle!
@Bilgeman – “…no pogroms in nearly a thousand years, and no camps on England’s fair soil…ever.”
You’re quite right. England’s pogroms were on Irish soil, and their concentration camps were on South African soil. But the Irish were only Catholics, and the South Africans were only Boers. Then there were the Aborigines and the Maoris and the Zulus and the Indians, all savages needing to be put down – lucky there were so many inferior types to torture and kill, if there weren’t goodness knows who the Brits would have turned on instead. Oh, and let’s not forget Palestine, after all they’re only Arabs so we’ll just take their land too …
Oh, and let’s not forget Palestine, after all they’re only Arabs so we’ll just take their land too …
Er…at the time the Brits “[took] their land”, that land was owned by the Ottomans, not the Arabs. Don’t let that bother you, though.
The British Empire was, in any case, the best thing that ever happened to the world.
ah yes, I forgot you, Anglo-Americans, you liked bombing, even when it wasn’t necessary ;
http://www.thepinklady.fr/post/2008/01/31/The-little-Royan-War
http://www.ina.fr/archivespourtous/index.php?vue=notice&from=fulltext&full=brest&num_notice=4&total_notices=123
http://www.ina.fr/archivespourtous/index.php?vue=notice&from=fulltext&num_notice=6&full=Suhard%2C+Emmanuel&total_notices=9
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ymve_bombardements-angloamericains-sur-l
etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc…
I don’t forget the Nazis :
http://www.lexpress.fr/informations/la-victoire-en-pleurant_607416.html
http://www.herodote.net/histoire/evenement.php?ID_dossier=4&jour=19440610
http://www.fondationresistance.org/documents/ee/Doc00004-008.pdf
ah yes, Patton Eisenhower sent him soon on the Germans (Lorraine front)front, cuz he was doing a mess in France, ya know kind of caracterial inaptitude
Viet Nam war, I don’t remember you won it, in spite of lots of bombings, uh you run quicker than us there, even you fled away… while our soldiers got stuck in Dien Dien Phu, with no alternative, fighting until death !!!
about Algeria war, doesn’t seem that your conservatives fellows think we lost the war, de Gaulle is inspiring them
http://www.amconmag.com/article/2007/apr/23/00012/
a referendum gave Independance to Algeria, when 70 % of the French vote “yes”
also about the so called quick capitulation in 1940
Dunquerque Battle
Les forces de l’aile gauche française et le corps expéditionnaire britannique, sont alors enfermées dans une poche autour de Dunquerque (nord de la France) et contraintes au rembarquement. Il faut le sacrifice d’une division d’infanterie française qui se fait littéralement tuer sur place, luttant à un contre quatre durant plusieurs jours jusqu’à épuisement des munitions, appuyée par l’infanterie britannique et la RAFqui a aussi souffert que l’armée de l’air française dans cette bataille pour permettre l’évacuation de 340 000 hommes, Britanniques et Français, dans des conditions épouvantables. L’armée belge, elle, capitule le 28 mai
could be a miracle that a french Regiment was sacrified for the Brits, that, of course, wrote the legend of the valorous tommies, yeah, but they abandonned the Frenchs first, to make sure that Hitler wouldn’t invade the virgin Albion.
have a nice time Bilgeman
How about that? The Europeans do have a lot of problems, not the least of which is that their problems don’t make much of a damn to anyone else anymore.
If a Europe that is Muslim friendly keeps Muslims from moving to the states then that’s ok with me. They add little to our society, in fact many work against it. Who needs another Mosque preaching hate and violence towards the infidels (that be us). I’ve got two within five miles of me doing just that. It’s a wonderful religion if you like ignorance, death, and destruction.
The craven comment overheard by Mr. Furedi is Western chauvinism at its worst – the notion that all things wrong with the world are due to the sins of the West.
Its a bit like the obsessive belief in conspiracies – as say in the Kennedy assassination. Positing a conspiracy puts order in a chaotic world, however ugly that order is. Rebelling against “The New World Order” is a dippy way to make sense of the world, but it’s better than no sense at all.
Our (il)liberal cousins want a world in which it is safe to be ironic, and distant, and remain eternally young and rebellious. They continue to harp on the myth of exceptional Western sin in order to subsidize their ever-shrinking sense of security.
No wonder why that stupid cow wished Israel to the wolves. It’s not so mysterious as it is contemptible.
“not just by simpletons and the unreconstructed, but by educated professional people.”
Especially by these people! Ordinary people – apart from muslims – in the West generally consider the conflict between the israelies and the palestianians a conflict between two immature combattants.
Yeah Frank
Keep excusing the butchery and massacre of innocent people but you get offended when people rile up by the acts of monsters that do not want to abide by international rule of law. Get over the it. There have been equivalent holocusts in Congo, Rwanda etc in the recent past.
@Mary Jackson – “Er…at the time the Brits “[took] their land”, that land was owned by the Ottomans, not the Arabs. Don’t let that bother you, though.”
Under the Ottomans the Arabs had full civil rights, were able to serve in government, and administer their own territories. However, as all men do, they aspired to complete freedom. The Brits promised them independence in exchange for their help in fighting the Turks, but once Palestine was under their control the Brits reneged, and from then on the Arabs had no civil rights. Why this treachery? Because Arthur Balfour had promised Chaim Weizmann (via Baron Rothschild) a national home for the Jews.
When the Jews started coming to British mandated Palestine from Europe, they were given full civil rights. Therein lie the seeds of the Arab revolt. It’s useless to keep saying that the Arabs weren’t there at the time, there is ample evidence to the contrary.
The Arabs were stitched up by the British, plain and simple, because the Brits think everyone is inferior to themselves and always have done. If someone is inferior, they reason, it’s okay to lie, cheat, rob and kill. Ask the Irish, the Chinese, the Indians, the Afrikaners, the Zulus, the Xhosas, the Aborigines, the Maoris, the list goes on and on. Ask the Arabs too.
Hell, even the Americans couldn’t wait to get rid of them.
Oh yes, and their friends the Zionists couldn’t wait to get rid of them either – remember Irgun, the Stern Gang, Haganah …
>>>>>>>>>>>When the Jews started coming to British mandated Palestine from Europe, they were given full civil rights. Therein lie the seeds of the Arab revolt.
…and we all know how much the Arabs care about civil rights, don’t we?
But you’re quite right. Perfidious Albion was helped by the Arabs in the first World war. In return, the ungrateful British only gave the Arabs Algeria and Morocco and Egypt and Syria and (trans)Jordan and Iraq and Saudi Arabia and Libya and Yemen and a few other places I’ve forgotten when the Ottoman empire broke up.
But the British also wanted to give 0.2% or so of the area to the Jews, for various reasons. That, of course, is COMPLETELY out of the question. Who do those infidels think they are? Kill them all!
(Which is what the “Arab revolt” of the 1930s really was — it’s really just a glorified name for a sustained series of pogroms against Jews.)
Charles Martell was the last European to firmly say NO to the Muslims. The Battle of Tours, more than likely, saved Western Civilization from extinction at the hand of the Islamic hordes. So, it seems a Frenchmen, of all people (actually born in Belgium), is the one responsible for winning the most important battle in the history of Western civilization.. as we now know it.
Sadly, Europe has now been invaded by Muslim armies. The politicians of Europe cannot wait to have the votes of a family with 4 wives and 36 children. Democracy is imploding into itself. Once the Islamist population outnumbers the few Judeao-Christians left in Europe…ZAP, Sharia for all!!
Even the US is so bogged down in political vote grabbing, that they are letting in every single Mexican drug lord and his family. While Islam grows, it is not as large a problem as faces Europe. The irony is that France is the MOST Muslim of any European country. Surely Charles the Hammer would turn in his grave.
Of course, in Europe, and America, it is very left wing politically correct to not only hate Israel, but to also villify Jews and Judaism. Oddly, some of those that do so on the far left are Jews, themselves. The Jews, though, are now…but a sideshow. This is a sideshow meant to divert us from the real problems with radical Islam. The Jews will certainly, NOT, overpopulate our democracies and vote us all into Talmudic law. On the other hand, this very thing has already happened in some European localities, with Sharia a permitted alternative to civil law.
I suspect that Europe will finally turn tail and turn Islamic in 20 years or less, and that all Western Artwork will be painted over with mosaic patterns. The US will probably be part of an American Union which is totally NOT Islamic and vehemently so.
The big winner in the future is CHINA, they repress all religions, and that will be their saving grace. Christianity, no longer needing to be repressed as its Crusading days are gone.. will not suffer greatly as it’s faithful in Europe have all but burned down their churches already. But, China will be the one country that WILL stop the Islamic hordes.
The future is interesting, but unless Europe wakes up from its anti-semitic day dreaming, and faces up to real problems, it will simply fade away into just another part of a larger Islamic state. Of course, eager Europeans will offer up Jews in their countries for sacrifice immediately. After all, they have done so before.
I guess the fact that certain European nations are not buying Israeli propganda anymore is reason enough to malign them. Good work Israel. After massacring the Palestinians, you now want glowing press? Sorry – this time not even Hasbara can buy you that.
“Charles Martell”, hmmm, I believe your drinking to much of it LMAO
is he at the origin of a cognac name too ?
Frank furedi expresses surprise that people do not much like Israel and suggests a number of implausible reasons for doing so. May I suggest that civilised people everywhere are sickened by the constant need of the Israeli State to invade,kill, imprison, impoverish and humiliate their neighbours. Ttwo years ago, Israel went into Lebanon and killed 1500 people. Before that there was the long series of murderous incursions by Ariel Sharon including the Sabra and Chatila massacres. Now it is Gazan’s turn. Israel has destroyed Gaza, turned it into an open air prison, destroyed the agriculture, so that all food has to come from outside. Israel holds the keys of the prison and decides how much food the inmates will eat. The people of Gaza have no rights – not even the right to life. Those that are still alive,are starving, maimed or living in the ruins of their houses. This is stupid racism by Israel. Have they learned nothing from their treatment by Hitler?
There will be no peace in the Middle East until Israel decides to live within its own borders.
Sooner or later, Israel will have to vacate the lands they occupy in Syris, Palestine and Lebanon. In short, when Israel behaves like any other civilised country.
What happened to the Jews in Europe during the 2nd world war was because the various contries in Europe thought that by going along with the Germans anti-semitic policies they would be spared. Hitler’s anti-semitic tirades struck a sympathetic chord in European culture. That vein of hate is still in the culture. The muslim groups now in Europe are the excuse not the reason for this hate. If the jews were totally out of Europe, then some other group would be blamed for the short comings of a European society that is morally bankrupt. No wonder their birth rates are plunging. Their only interests are self and indulgent living.
As for the Moslems in Europe that are pouring in to various countries,most of them are coming for economic reasons and to do the jobs Europeans refuse to do. If they are getting radicalized its because they are taking advantage of weak goverments that bend over backwards to appease them and their “culture”. As long as Europe needs oil from the middle east, Moslems will be allowed to do what they do in their “adopted” countries. In years to come, religious Moslem law will be allowed in these tranplanted groups along with multiple wifes just so long as Europe gets its energy needs taken care of with no interruptions.
Israel learned colonization from the Europeans. Now it is whining because it is unable to control them too. Sad, sad nation. Apartheid did not last in SOuth Africa and it will not last in Israel either.
Skeptic – The Balfour Declaration specifically stated that “nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine”. The British definitely reneged on that.
Your point seems to be that the Arabs didn’t leave when the Zionists wanted them to. I take it you are in favour of forced removals, i.e. taking the existing inhabitants from their home and dropping them somewhere else? I seem to remember Americans, Brits and Europeans being absolutely horrified when the Nats in South Africa were doing that, screaming hordes were taking to the streets to fight for the civil rights of black South Africans and to protest against the barbaric white apartheid rule in SA. There were sanctions and economic/cultural/travel/sports boycotts and SA was made the pariah of the world. It worked, too.
It can work again.
Let those amongst us who are without sin throw the first stones. Isn’t it about time that we all stop discussing such issues using ridiculous generalizations (“Muslims/Jews/Christians/Hindus/Europeans/Americans/The Media do this/that…”)? Shouldn’t we try to view each person involved as an individual with many strengths/weaknesses/pressures, while we try to understand the consequences of that person’s thoughts/actions instead of wasting time simply rating those as good/bad/evil? Until we start truly supporting each decision made that makes the world a better place for all of us (and reviling those decisions that move us in the opposite direction), there’s little hope that we’ll ever amount as a species to more than a complex societal order of simplistic primates–driven by our own fears of the unknown, our own simplistic self-absorption, and our own selfish hierarchy of values (which, interestingly, would be better served in the long view anyway by working closely together as equals). I hope and pray each day that we can all realize the good within while suppressing the bad in order to make this world a better place–if not for us, then for future generations who might not deserve to suffer for our pettiness. I think that all but the least amongst us need to try harder to deserve our own blessings.
But, WHY?
Apart from GAZA, why do radical Muslims hate the West?
First and foremost, the West has lost any sense of morality. Say what you will about repression in Islamic countries… you will not find them tolerating their religious treasures covered in urine, or any homosexual marriages, or any porno on demand on television. And I’m certainly not sure of why those things are so important to have!!
The irony is, that the very folks that want to ‘give radical Islam a break’ are the very ones that foment them. Hollywood and the crap they turn out are at the forefront of reasons Islam cannot tolerate the West.
Christians seem to have lost all concern for any of the commandments, and the churches are empty in most European countries. Islam appeals to those who are fed up with the self indulgent societies that have no moral compass.
A religious Christian (should one actually be located in Europe) might well think that a society under Islam might be an improvement over the decadent state of current affairs. Of course, this is all very 20s and 30s Germany… the decadent liberal society begging to be clamped down on by the fascists. But in our new day and age, the decadence will be ended by the Islamists. They are the new far right and far left combined.
But you know, what made the fascists appeal to the Germans, is the same thing that makes the Islamists appeal to some today…. they, at least, have something to believe in, and they give others something to believe in too.
Christians are no longer in great enough number or solid enough in belief to compete with that. In fact, they are so weak, that they would rather blame their demise on the Jews rather than their own self indulgent ways. IF Christians, somehow, can find that moral compass… they might survive. But that looks, increasingly, farfetched.
#89 Marie Claude:
“have a nice time Bilgeman”
Oh, but I AM! I just LOVE your indignant reaction…struck a tender nerve there, didn’t I?
Nothing is sweeter than to watch a Frenchman,(or -woman…though there’s not much apparent functional difference between the two), deflate after you puncture their chauvinistic buffoonery by rubbing their noses in their own sordid history.
“could be a miracle that a french Regiment was sacrified for the Brits, that, of course, wrote the legend of the valorous tommies, yeah, but they abandonned the Frenchs first, to make sure that Hitler wouldn’t invade the virgin Albion.”
Why SHOULDN’T the French Army have “taken one for the team” at Dunkirk?
France was THEIR land. Most of the French Army wouldn’t or couldn’t effectively fight for France…the British should have sacrificed themselves so you all could be free to collaborate with your Boche Masters?
Good for the Limeys. THEY at least have the sand to put up a scrap.
And a few years later, a lot of those lads were mailed to Montgomery, where they stopped Rommel cold at el-Alamein, or were sent into the Torch landings, which captured Morrocco and Algeria after nothing so much more than a “bitch-slap” at the Vichy clowns.
“a referendum gave Independance to Algeria, when 70 % of the French vote “yes””
Conveniently, you forget the pieds-noir… the French who colonized Algeria, and were promised that it would be amalgamated with the rest of France.
Sold them right down the river, didn’t you?
BTW, I’m half Acadienne, my ancestors deported to Normandy from L’Acadie for refusing to fight OTHER Frenchmen for the new English,(German), King.
The French were so grateful for that loyalty that they treated them like crap and retransported my ancestor after 7 years to Terrebonne Parish, Louisiana, (which is about 35% “terre” and only 10% “bonne”).
TWO eighteenth-century Transatlantic crossings. Merci-effin’-beaucoup, mon patrie!
Betraying your own is your history. Right back to Jeanne d’Arc and her Dauphin, n’est-ce-pas?
“Viet Nam war, I don’t remember you won it, in spite of lots of bombings, uh you run quicker than us there, even you fled away… ”
Oh, we won it, alright, and then we politically walked away before we could seal the deal, and the South Vietnamese didn’t have their act together yet. BTW, our bombing saved the day in 1972, and likely would have again, had our Democrat Congress not pussed out on our obligations.
“ah yes, Patton Eisenhower sent him soon on the Germans (Lorraine front)front, cuz he was doing a mess in France, ya know kind of caracterial inaptitude”
Say what you will, but as a Frenchwoman you should know better than any that Germans, for all their faults, CAN fight. You’ve surrendered to them enough times, haven’t you?
And now it looks like you’re set to surrender your banlieux to the children and grandchildren of the Algerians and Tunisians that you surrendered to in the 1950′s.
What a Proud and Glorious history France has!
What’s the last battle that France won unaided? Verdun?
Oh, and BTW, mam’selle. I had a friend who returned from a tour in France and gave me a 1939-issued Croix de Guerre that she had allegedly bought on the street outside les Invalides.
Yes…France’s highest award for valor, being sold to foreign tourists as a souvenir.
You wouldn’t see an American selling a Medal of Honor or a Limey peddling a Victoria Cross on the sidewalk.
I’m eternally grateful that France is not my ally. I wouldn’t want you any other way.
Thank you Marie and Mary the only two sane commentators on this site.
Either the rest of you are Jewish and feel persecuted even when you are not universally hated in Europe or you are just American and obtuse in world affairs in general.
There are forms of racismn against muslims, jews, hispanics, west indians, Americans, White Brits, basically everyone in the UK and Europe.
Different cultures distrust others and some constantly try and play the race card. Thankfully most people of all backgrounds are nice sensible normal family people who want to live life and are not bigotted.
In general in Europe dispite the extremes on all sides that is the case, where you and this ridiculous articles gets it material from , who knows, but I am sure it is skewed and embellished to suit this baying audience
oh Bilgeman is half-Acadienne, and feels she has to argue against the Frenchs because of her ancestors being fired out by the Britih, that she claims “superior” though, LMAO, put your blame on them and the pigs will be well fared in custody
BTW, you don’t know nuthin about the acadians’s history your just paraphrasing your masters view upon the past
La France leur verse une pension et, pendant une vingtaine d’années, elle tente de les relocaliser en Guyane Française, aux Îles malouines (Îles Falkland), à Saint-Domingue, en Bretagne, à Belle-Île-en-Mer, au Poitou et en Corse. Cependant, ces projets connaissent peu de succès. L’Amérique attire la plus grande part des déportés. En 1763 par exemple, 100 Acadiens émigrent aux Îles Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon et en 1774, d’autres acceptent l’invitation de marchands-pêcheurs jersiais et deviennent employés dans leur entreprise dans le Golfe Saint-Laurent. La vague d’émigration la plus importante a lieu en 1785 quand l’Espagne, qui cherche à renforcer sa position en Louisiane, y amène 1600 Acadiens.
De leur côté, les vainqueurs tentent de redéfinir leur propre histoire dans le but de se justifier auprès des nouvelles générations. Ils essaient également de nous contraindre, nous, les descendants des victimes, à accepter cette réécriture de l’histoire en menaçant des plus grandes sanctions ceux qui oseraient dire la vérité.
http://www.ph-ludwigsburg.de/html/2b-frnz-s-01/overmann/baf4/quebec/acadie/index.html
see if Acadie isn’t in France, some managed to re-settle in their former patry :
http://patrimoineacadien.com/
you are one more ignorant Tabernacle
first of all, what does the holocaust of WWII have to do with whether the actions Israel today are moral? If the UN, Amnesty International, and the Red Cross call for war crimes investigations into Israel’s actions in January 2009, can Israel invoke 1940 as some sort of “get out of jail free” card?
second of all, to dismiss all criticism of Israel as nothing more than anti-semitism is pure nonsense. George W. Bush once invoked “You’re either with us or against us” as a way to suppress criticism of his moronic imperial delusions. If anything, criticism of Bush was even needed even more simply for his attempt to suppress criticism.
Israel’s two-year long blockade of Gaza has put half of the population below the poverty line. Israel defends the blockade and its three week war with Gaza as needed to defend itself against Hamas rockets. Rockets that had killed 17 Israelis in 2008.
Except Hamas had stopped its rockets back in July 2008 when Israel and Hamas signed a ceasefire. For four months, this ceasefire worked until november when Israel violated the truce by sending troops into Gaza and killing several members of Hamas.
Hamas had offered to extend this ceasefire by a year if Israel would lift its blockade. Israel refused and instead launched a bombing campaign and invasion of Gaza that killed hundreds of innocent civilians.
Was a war the only way to stop the rockets? Clearly not.
Is a nation that chose to go to war when other options were so clearly available to avoid it not to be criticized?
If not, then the world cannot criticize America when it invaded and occupied Iraq in 2003 to disarm Saddam Hussein. Hans Blix and the UN had reported by March that Iraq was complying with inspections and that they would be done in a few months. Bush invaded weeks later.
THe world would rightly criticize Bush for launching an avoidable war. Is Israel somehow immune to similar criticism for similar hubris?
Bilge, you should join the club “pôvre_conne.com”, your qualified
bilgemann
whenever gasbag french frog spites her “knowledge”, tell her that in fwance a jew kid was brutally murdered by muslims among the people’s indifference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilan_Halimi
Name one country that has improved by having a large Moslem minority. Do people remember the restless “Moslem youth” of a few years ago in France who burned cars for weeks on end? In England the feckless Archbishop of Canterbury states that “sharia law is inevitable” and has no problem throwing Jewish citizens to the wolves. Europe is digging its own grave by not insisting that these animals assimilate and learn some history.
Gregg, enjoy your dhimmi status. Israel handed the green houses over to the animals in Gaza and they chose to destroy them rather than develop them for food. The Gazans voted for Hams – let them live with them!
I see that the anti-Semitic trolls have gotten on this thread. I guess posting in Al Jazeera wasn’t enough for them – idiots and fools – the radical Moslems will go after their useful idiot allies next.
>The Gazans voted for Hams – let them live with them!
The Geneva Convention prohibits an army from enforcing collective punishment on civilians, regardless of who they voted for. It also demands that an army distinguish between combatants and unarmed civilians, regardless of who those civilians voted for.
One cannot argue that since the US elected George W. Bush to the presidency twice that the US population is now open to legitimate attack for the crimes committed by Bush.
As much as the Israeli apologists want to demonize all Gazans to be indistinguishable from Hamas, the Geneva Convention demands otherwise.
Let’s see: Europe, which gave the world Communism, Fascism, Naziism, mercantile imperialism, the Atlantic slave trade, and set the world on fire twice in the last century, feels entitled to dump its advice on anyone?
#108 Marie-Claude:
“you are one more ignorant Tabernacle”
Ah…well THERE’S a statement to which I have no riposte.
(No-one has ever called me a Tabernacle before!).
BTW, M-C…that first link has the Tricoleur displayed on it. WRONG! All this was LONG before your Ghastly Revolution.
We were all good little subjects of the Bourbons at the time. You might want to tell the site’s webmaster, since he looks quite the fool for pasting that anachronism there.
“BTW, you don’t know nuthin about the acadians’s history”
Yes…quite. From your source material, I can see your point.
Bilge, I don’t care, tell t’em yourself, your so enlightened, and your still a tabernacle
Why am I suprised by this? European elitist “progressives” are so enmeshed in their sense of political correctness — and quaking in their boots for fear of upsetting the Islamo-fascist horde they invited in some decades ago (to their present sorrow) to serve as cheap labor — that they have forgotten that it is also politically incorrect to be openly anti-semitic! Is that because only a remnant of European Jewry remains in the Old World, while the majority of survivors of the Holocaust are thriving and producing in the US and Israel, two innovative and creative societies that have left a Europe-without-colonies (and without Jews!) lagging far behind in a post-industrial world? What is even more disturbing, however, than the so-easy stripping away of the veneer that has so poorly covered the bed-rock anti-semitism that underlies European society, is the cowardice and stupidity with which Europeans are so eager to toss out their own most cherished Western values. Free speech? Forget about it if it offends the Muslims among you. Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité ? Forget about it if treating Jews as equals offends the Muslims among you. The rule of law? Equality for women? Forget about it and install Sharia if the Common Law or the Napoleonic Code offends the Muslims among you. As several posters have said, the progressive lefties in Europe are appeasers and cowards. Alice L. and Jim are right on. When you finish bashing Israel and the US for taking care of some of your dirty work (fighting the terrorist?) will you be looking for the Yanks and the IDF to bail you out of the muck you have created by caving in to your hostile, non-integrated Muslim minority? That would make the third time in the last century . . .
I can’t think of a more effective engine of anti-semitism, than Israel’s latest war in the Gaza Strip.
The images of dead and injured Palestinian children have burnt themselves into the world’s memory.
Hate of Israel is the inevitable response.
“the US and Israel, two innovative and creative societies that have left a Europe-without-colonies (and without Jews!) lagging far behind in a post-industrial world?”
Have they really? In what sense?
I can see how you might put the US in this category, GDP per capita is significantly higher than Europe (as it has been for the last century at least, nothing new there) but Israel ranks alongside lesser developed European countries like Portugal or Greece in that regard. And rather than pulling away stongly, the US is actually much less far ahead of Europe now than half a century ago. Europe caught up rapidly in the 1945-1980 period and since then there has been little change in the relative positions. Some European countries have done better than others during different periods but overall the picture is not one of the USA moving far ahead at all.
Maybe you were thinking in terms other than economic ones but ‘more innovative and creative’ should lead to an increase in the wealth gap between those innovative societies and those stagnant ones shouldn’t it? Not much evidence of that in the post-industrial world.
So, basically, rog, you’re saying you blame all Jews, all over the world, for what’s going on the Gaza strip. Ergo, hatred of all Jews is justified, because of what Israel is doing. So, if a Starbucks, or a synagogue, gets torched, that’s just what those lousy Jews deserve.
It’s nice to finally see the “I’m not anti-semetic, I’m just anti Israel!” finally coming off! It was always BS, anyway.
And thank you for not dragging in the “Jews killed Christ!” excuse; as a Christian, I find that deeply offensive—and it’s always peddled by those who care bupkiss about Christ, or any other religion, but want to sound righteous.
(Hmmm, some people might say that because of the massacre in Mumbai, homicide bombings, 9/11, 7/7, Darfur, Beslan, etc., these images have burnt themselves into the world’s memory, and therefore, hatred of Islam is inevitable response. That, however, would be denounced as “racist” and “Islamophobic”; only hatred of Jews is allowed, right?)
“(Hmmm, some people might say that because of the massacre in Mumbai, homicide bombings, 9/11, 7/7, Darfur, Beslan, etc., these images have burnt themselves into the world’s memory, and therefore, hatred of Islam is inevitable response. That, however, would be denounced as “racist” and “Islamophobic”; only hatred of Jews is allowed, right?)”
Clearly to any sane person, neither is justified. Hating all jews because you don’t like the actions of the IDF is as nonsensical as hating all muslims because of some nutjob suicide bombers.
People like “Marie-Claude” make me ashamed of my French ancestry. But, then again, we Catholic French Canadians in New England are not at all like our continental cousins. We’re patriotic Americans who have a very high rate of military service and participation in American civic and political organizations locally.
America and Israel are the good guys. France and dar al Islam are the bad guys. When you dissect and analyze the facts of history and the contours of the current conflicts, it really does boil down to that simple point.
Once the Jews have left Europe for good, the Europeans will be left with the constantly angry and rioting moslems. Good luck. If they they think they will be spared, they are even more naive and stupid than I thought.
115. Greg London:
Jan 19, 2009 – 2:43 pm
Let them live with the consequences of Hamas in as much as Hamas uses them as human shields, as much as Hamas takes all the money meant to run and develope Gaza and buys weapons with it (the part some low-life isn’t putting into Swiss banks as Arafat did with about 4.5 billion out of 6 billion in aid), and as much as Hamas executes anyone, or their family members, who don’t worship as they do. The Palestinians can suck on it.
121. Jonesy55:
Jan 20, 2009 – 6:24 am
Hard to have a rocking economy when you have to pour your best into a military that allows you to survive amongst the degenerate barbarians that surround you. Still, I would be willing to bet the Isrealis have been awarded more Nobel Prizes than the entire Moslem world. Want to make that bet?
Well, rog certainly seems to be justifying hatred of Israel because of the images pouring out of Gaza. Presumably, he sees this as justifying any, and all, protests against Israel, even if it results in attacks on Starbucks or synagogues, because, as he pontificates, this hatred is “inevitable”.
If we’re going to justify hate because of images; because we’re fed sad picutres and sob stories by the media (never mind paying attention to any back story), then, logically, we should hate Moslems, and all Islamic countries, because of Beslan, Mumbai, etc. This isn’t my position, but it appears to be rog’s, and those who think like him. Israel, and, consequently, the Jews, deserve what it, and they, get, because of Gaza.
As I said, I’m just glad he didn’t play the “Jews killed Jesus!” card, or the “I’m not anti-semetic, I’m anti-Israel!” card. For that, we should thank him.
“The Palestinians can suck on it.”
Keep saying that. It doesn’t change the Geneva Convention on war.
Israel’s blockade of Gaza going on for two years now is a human rights crime, a violation of teh Geneva Convention’s prohibition against collective punishment on civilians.
Israel’s war with Gaza killed 300 children in 3 weeks. Justified by Israel because of the rockets that killed 17 israelis in a year. Rockets that had stopped from July to November during a ceasefire. A ceasefire that Israel violated November 4.
If ISrael wanted to stop the rockets, it could have done so without such a disproportional use of force, with such a disregard for the lives of innocent civilians.
After Israel violated the ceasefire on November 4 and tightened the blockade, Hamas rockets resumed. In November and December, Hamas rockets killed maybe 6 Israeli civilans. In response, Israel launched a war against the entire population of Gaza, killing 300 children.
6 Israelis. 300 palestinian children.
Such a disproportional response is a gross violation of the
Geneva Convention.
And you beat your chest and say “suck on it”.
People like “Marie-Claude” make me ashamed of my French ancestry. But, then again, we Catholic French Canadians in New England are not at all like our continental cousins. We’re patriotic Americans who have a very high rate of military service and participation in American civic and political organizations locally.
Then again, a different perspective made/makes that your not faithful to France anymore, but to your anglo-saxons colons. I am not entitled to follow your bitterness, as I never stepped away from my patry.
America and Israel are the good guys. France and dar al Islam are the bad guys. When you dissect and analyze the facts of history and the contours of the current conflicts, it really does boil down to that simple point.
yeah, history isn’t an anglo-saxon trustful science, oh wait there are some though, but blurred by convenient policies agendas
Have a nice day, cousin
clairette what do you know how it’s like over here ?
why don’t you have a look at what’s going on today in your blessed country, I don’t see a clear future there either for you.
So before blaming the others, you should clean into your self house
have a nice and clairette day, BTW your new leader is on TV right now
Here’s a good perspective on the Gaza casualties: http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090119/NEWS04/901190313&emailAFriend=1
“Here’s a good perspective on the Gaza casualties:”
If “good” means in complete opposition to the facts reported by the people on the ground, like the UN personel at the varioius UN buildings that Israel shelled and bombed, or the Red Cross people trying to deliver humanitarian aid like food and medicine that Israeli troops fired on and killed to the poitn that the Red Cross halted transporting aid, then yeah, I suppose that’s “good”.
This is a movie review, but it offers some good insight into Islamic terrorism, and propaganda: http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ravrech/2009/01/20/the-real-battle-of-algiers-part-ii/#more-20285
You mean this UN? The one that always has time to condemn Israel, but couldn’t get around to halting the Rwanda massacre? (Or doing much of anything else?)http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/may/09/20060509-090826-9806r/
You mean this UN, right? http://warnewsupdates.blogspot.com/2009/01/how-un-supports-hamas-commentary.html
Here’s, hopefully, a better link for the one I tried above: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/may/09/20060509-090826-9806r/
129. Greg London:
Jan 20, 2009 – 8:27 am
Hey Greg, you should try this thing called reading comprehension. I stated the evils that Hamas does to it’s own people, the ones who elected them in the first place. They are stuck absobing the damage from all of Hamas’ actions. They can go suck on it because they chose their own leaders.
133. Greg London:
Jan 20, 2009 – 10:35 am
It makes sense you would believe UN information. The UN is responsible for the 23 billion dollar oil for food scam that rearmed Saddam. Their troops go into an area to keep the peace, but instead turn the local girls, teen and pre-teen, in to sex slaves. Other UN administration report on the sex slavery and come back to observe 5 years later and report that nothing has changed and no one took any action to stop it. During the Hezbollah fight, the Hezbollah was able to use UN outpost to fire their rockets from. If you get your information from the UN you’re a sgood as on the side of the terrorists.
“If you get your information from the UN you’re a sgood as on the side of the terrorists.”
Well, there you have it. No one knows the real truth except the Israeli apologists. The UN cannot be trusted. No doubt, Amnesty International is run by the mob and the Red Cross is a front for the Borg.
So glad there are websites like this one where the real truth about the world can be disseminated without all that propaganda from every single other organization on the planet that might contradict it.
Speaking of scandals:
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert handed his resignation to President Shimon Peres … faces criminal indictment in corruption probes
http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-35583420080921
In November 1985, civilian U.S. Naval Intelligence analyst Jonathan Jay Pollard was arrested and charged with spying for Israel.
in the 18 months prior to the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, more than 120 Israelis were detained by U.S. authorities for spying on Federal law enforcement facilities, the private homes of senior intelligence officials, and military bases.
http://www.rense.com/general21/2newisraeliUS.htm
— Israeli President Moshe Katsav was forced to resign in June 2007 under a cloud of rape, sexual harassment and other charges.
— Omri Sharon, son of ex-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, started serving a seven-month prison term in February 2008 after being convicted on campaign funding violations. Ariel Sharon was mentioned often in the inquiries but not charged.
— Finance Minister Avraham Hirchson resigned in July 2007 under suspicion of embezzling millions from a union he used to run.
— Olmert ally Haim Ramon was convicted in March 2007 of forcibly kissing a female soldier. After a light sentence, Ramon returned to Olmert’s Cabinet as vice premier.
— President Ezer Weizman was forced to resign in 2000 under suspicion of accepting large sums of money from a businessman.
— Prime Minister Ehud Barak and aides were suspected in 2000 of campaign finance irregularities. No charges were filed.
— Decorated Gen. Yitzhak Mordechai resigned from Cabinet in 2000 after being charged with sexually assaulting female workers. He was convicted and given a suspended sentence.
— Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was suspected in 1997 of engineering the appointment of a crony as attorney general in exchange for political support from the Shas party. Netanyahu was not charged.
— Shas leader Arieh Deri was convicted in the case of the attorney general. Also, in 1999, Deri was convicted of accepting bribes and served two years in prison.
— Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin resigned in 1977 shortly before an election when his wife is discovered to have an illegal foreign currency account in the United States.
— Labor Party stalwart Asher Yadlin, picked to be governor of Israel’s central bank, was charged in 1977 with taking bribes. Cabinet Minister Avraham Ofer, linked to the Yadlin affair and another corruption case, committed suicide.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=4949067
Livni blasts culture of corruption in Israeli leadership
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=994062
So, if corruption is cause to dismiss the UN and not believe anything at all that the UN says, why should the world believe anything at all that Israel says?
“Hard to have a rocking economy when you have to pour your best into a military that allows you to survive amongst the degenerate barbarians that surround you. Still, I would be willing to bet the Isrealis have been awarded more Nobel Prizes than the entire Moslem world. Want to make that bet?”
What does that have to do with anything? the claim was that Israel had left Europe lagging far behind, the muslim world wasn’t even mentioned. I’m sure that Israel does have more nobel prizes, the muslim world isn’t exactly known for innovation and progressive ideas.
And more on Hamas and the UN (posted this on another thread, but it elongs on this one:)http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/blog/2009/01/13/the-un-bailout-of-hamas/
Because, Greg, whereas individual Israelis might be corrupt, they’re not an organization, like the UN, that pretends to be working for peace, and lays down dictates for the world at large, as to how it should behave.
Are you saying that because some Israeli politicians are crooks that means we must unquestioningly believe the UN—despite its ties to Hamas—because, well, they’re crooked too? That doesn’t make any sense, sorry, it just doesn’t.
Fact is, UN is not a disinterested party here. They support Hamas.
and, of course, as an organization, the UN is corrupt: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/01/20/2009-01-20_human_rights_worker_with_united_
Hopefully, a better link; http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/blog/2009/01/13/the-un-bailout-of-hamas/
The Jews gave Mohammad a hard time and Mohammad distroyed 3 jewish tribes. In one incident Mohammad exicuted 600 Jewish males in one day. Jew-hated is enshrined in the Quarn and Hadith.
Thays way Pakistaines who never lived with jews before hate them. Hating Jews is part of the foundation of the religion.
Here’s an oppressed group the UN cares nothing about: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0109/christian_gaza.php3
As a Brit who is anglo-saxon in terms of race and who probably doesn’t have a Jewish bone in his body, and who is a Christian in terms of religion, I’d like to apologise for the comments of my fellow countrymen (and countrywomen).
I’d just like people to know that all of us are anti semitic. Am Yisrael chai.
“It’s useless to keep saying that the Arabs weren’t there at the time, there is ample evidence to the contrary.”
Most of the Arabs came to the area that is now israel only once the jews had arrived and begun developing the economy. Under the brits, who had not yet made up their minds whether to act on the balfour declaration, jewish immigration was curtailed while arabs/muslims streamed in to take advantage of the developing economy (developed by the jews). that’s how most palestinians came to the area. They also did not leave thru force population transfer as was claimed. We have the documentation today from the british mandate and we know they left because the surrounding arab countries told them to while the jews told them to stay. The palestinian problem is a self-created one and created by arabs, not jews
As an educated, liberal, atheist british citizan; I do not hate jews, nor do I hate Israel, indeed I support it and its claims over and above that of Palestine. Palestinian rulers and, to a large extent, its public, have repeatedly proved that they are untrust worthy, vicious and aggressive. Anti semitism is a brutal and ugly ideology, but so is Islamophobia; while the religion appears to be quite ugly, so do most other religions if you pay close enough attention to the details; see Corinthians 11, 3; while jewish religios law itself calls for the stoning of homosexuals (sorry, no quote).
My point is that it is not about Religion per se, but the interpretation thereof. It would be a mistake to tar all muslims with the brush of the radicals, just as it would be deeply unfair to claim that since some christians behave ignobily and justify it using the bible, then all christians are ‘evil’.
This is a complex, dangerous situation, and regardless of your personal stance on the issue, it merits subtelty and understanding not blanket statements and biased opinions.
Europeans, and I’m one myself, don’t agree with Israel’s existence because, being supported by America, it perpetrates terrible atrocities against the Palestinians and has one of the worst human rights records in the world. If America wasn’t supporting it so much, Israel wouldn’t exist.
Add me to those who don’t hate Jews but do not support Israel or its existence under its present mandate.
israel is god own people and thland belongs 2 them given by GOD and their right .isreal has all the right 2 protect its citizens from foreign invasions.Hamas and their people are just plain green eyed for the development.just imagine a small tiny nation not even as half the size of its neighbour so well advanced in all fronts so dont worry you mighty israel the MIGHTY GOD is with you . GOD bless israel.