Europeans Lash Out at U.S. Relief Efforts in Haiti
Europeans have been struggling to come up with a unified response to the earthquake in Haiti. Although the European Union now has a president and foreign minister whose job it is to make Europe “speak with one voice” on the global stage, Europeans have been reduced to squabbling over the lofty question of why they allowed the United States to take command of the international relief efforts.
But even as sibling rivalry stymies the EU’s humanitarian aid response, Europeans have encountered no problems whatsoever in unifying around anti-Americanism, the time-tested elixir to European disunity. Across the continent, Europeans have been quick to lash out at the United States for a host of perceived wrong moves in Haiti, even as they secretly admit that the EU response can best be described as inept. (The new EU foreign minister, Baroness Catherine Ashton, initially responded to the earthquake in Haiti by conveying her “condolences” to UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon.)
A common theme parroted by much of the European mainstream media revolves around the alleged American “military occupation” of Haiti, as if war planners at the Pentagon viewed the earthquake disaster as an opportunity to turn the impoverished island nation into the 51st U.S. state.
Europeans have also spilled considerable ink on second-guessing U.S. motives for providing aid to Haiti, with the underlying idea being that Americans are somehow genetically incapable of altruism (even though empirical evidence shows that Europeans are far less charitable than are Americans).
But the most common European grievance faults the United States for “controlling” the Haiti relief operation. Indeed, envy over American power and global leadership appears to lie at the heart of European gall. The United States, by acting quickly and decisively in Haiti, has embarrassed the Europeans, who spend much of their time laying claim to being a “world superpower,” but whose dithering response to the crisis in Haiti has once again demonstrated that the EU is not an equal of the United States on the global stage.
Most of the criticism stems from the European left, which only one year ago worshipped Barack Obama as a messianic figure. The latest outburst of European anti-Americanism provides additional proof that Europeans have soured on Obama, who once promised that he alone could bring an end to the anti-American bigotry flowing from Europe and elsewhere.
Some of the most vocal criticism of the United States has come from European officials linked to governments that are normally friendly to America. For example, the head of Italy’s civil protection department, Guido Bertolaso, said that the U.S.-led efforts in Haiti were a “pathetic” failure that is turning a national tragedy into a “vanity show for the television cameras.” Bertolaso, who holds Cabinet rank in the center-right government of Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, also said: “When confronted by a situation of chaos, they [the Americans] tend to confuse military intervention with what should be an emergency operation, which cannot be entrusted to the armed forces. We are missing a leader, a co-ordination capacity that goes beyond military discipline.” Bertolaso called for the appointment of an international civilian humanitarian coordinator, under the supervision of the United Nations, of course.
“At Champs de Mars [Port-au-Prince], the city’s central plaza which has turned into a sprawling makeshift camp for the quake displaced, women formed a long line that snaked up to trucks carrying the rice… U. S. soldiers were out in force to guard against chaos. ‘There was no way we could do this without them. There’s no way we could push back people without the troops,’ said Jacques Montouroy, a logistical planner for Catholic Relief Services…” http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/31/haiti.food.aid/index.html?hpt=T2
Hmm… Guess those soldiers do come in handy when distributing tons of aid…
It’s odd the Europeans, whose hands are bloodied by centuries of colonial abuse -including in Haiti- now accuse the U.S. of “occupying” it, simply because the U.S. took over Haitian air traffic control (at the Haitian’s request), and sent thousands of soldiers to distribute aid that is logistically impossible for the Haitians to presently distribute themselves…. Well, if there’s a lesson to be learned here is that, should a European country be stricken with an earthquake massive enough to affect a third of its population and destroy up to half of all vital infrastructure, we should refrain from extending too much aid, lest we be seen as “occupiers.”
The European Left criticizes the U.S. for intervening in Haiti. Yet I’m sure these are the same individuals who criticize the U.S. when it does NOT intervene (e.g. in Rwanda). The point is not to criticize the U.S. for intervening. The point is to criticize the U.S., period.
er hmm if it wasn’t such a pity for these poor people, this article is laughable
got plenty of contradictory links, in english, awaiting to be edited
O.K., Europe, pony up or shut up.
1) Where is the European flag aircraft carrier to provide helicopters, hospital care, and clean water? Oh, right, they don’t have one.
2) Where are the European air-traffic controllers? Oh, still in Brussels and London because there are none to spare for tiny Haiti.
3) Where is the European hospital ship? Just like the aircraft carrier, they don’t have one.
4) How about LSDs that have dozens of small landing craft to use to ferry cargo to shore while the port is being rebuilt? Oh, yeah, I thought so.
Lots of countries around the world sent relief supplies and many sent doctors and other to help. Great. But, heavy equipment? USA. Troops to assist the UN’s miserable police force that won’t stand up to Haitian gangs? Just the USA.
The real bitch is that the USA is contributing the most in actual aid and in money. And, the Europeans and the UN are having a difficult time getting their hands on the money.
Typical Europeans. Call for more bureaucrats while other people actually do something about the problem.
So your first and only explanation of criticism is that is because of EU envy of American power, or anti-americanism? Did you ever happen to think that maybe, maybe, some criticism on the US might be justified? You yourself point out that criticism came even from strongly pro-American players like the Italian govt.
You do not provide at all any assessment of how the US military is doing in Haiti. I see that after more than 2 weeks not much has been done. I see chaos. I personally tend to think that the US army does fighting, not reconstruction. They are trained for war, not stabilization and rescue. Why you did not discuss this issue?
I suggest that first you do yourself an assessment, and then, IF you find criticism is not justified, you can speculate on the resons of the critics. And maybe without these old, simplistic and frankly stupid explanation like “they hate the US” or “they are envious”.
I’ll go first!
I’m glad that you’ve brought attention to absolute confusion in Europe; the constant denigrating of the U.S. (even on Obama’s watch); the impotence of bureaucrats in the U.N. and the E.U. and the scary group think mentality displayed across the nations of Europe. Imagine what Geert Wilders is going through in his currently “hate crimes” trial.
The whole specter of the EU was set up as a superpower to counter U.S. influence. They truly believe that the European model is “superior to the U.S.” – Jaques Delors.
To say that European people in general like the U.S. is bogus; this hatred of the U.S. is growing as fast as the anti-Semitism and in true leftist fashion; is exposing itself to be what it is on a daily basis: absolutely bonkers.
This seems very odd, their whipping boy ‘Bush the Satan’ is no longer in office. Did they not wanted their ‘messiah’ in office; and now that he’s there, why the discontent?
Then again, that’s europeans do, the jelousy takes over. What a disgrace by these narcissists in europe.
The game is up, we’ve been caught out. The Euro-crats have known for a long time that we’ve had our imperial eyes on this shining jewel of the Caribbean and this just proves it. Best thing to do is to return Haiti to the Haitians.
No one hates Americans like a Euro. Believe me, we’ve lived as expats here in Bulgaria for 15 years & have seen every possible type of whining, tantrums, jealousy & hatred to any & everything Ameican. That is with one exception. They ALWAYS want our money.
Euros are like a bunch of spoiled bratty kindergarten kids who scream, bang their heads on the ground & throw their toys. Why? Because when given any chance to stop a war (see WWI, WWII, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Rwanda, the DR Congo, Sudan, etc.) the immediately show their complete incompetence to do so. We step in to right things & they hate us for it with an unbridled passion. Hey, the next time Putin gets bored & wants to knock off the Ukraine, Georgia, Poland or the rest of europe I say let him.
Just see how much the Euros will whine then. Oh, how soon they forget Hitler, Stalin & any act of God because they simply cannot deal with it.
Then the boneheads run screaming “help, help, HELP!” to Uncle Sam with hat in hand begging for $, troops or food.
If you’d like a bureaucrat to throw a pencil at a problem to solve it of study the same for decades, call out Europe’s finest and the UN. They will make an absolute disaster out of it in no time at all.
the EU is a bunch of haters, that’s all it is. they are inept and squabbling because they can’t take credit for the help, and it is true the US military is as organized as we get. it is a great catastrophe and we are helping the Haitians, maybe they should ask, how the Haitians feel about the help. I understood their government was buried in the quake so there wasn’t anyone left to be in charge.
i suppose we did learn from Iraq as far as deploying troops to keep the looters/criminals from taking charge,and it sounds callous but lets be practical, the US government can write the huge expense off as a training exercise.
They did the same thing during the tsunami relief operations in 2004. They’ll dust off the same stupid stories when the next disaster hits, because it is so much easier to sit around and bitch than to actually do something.
BTW, any word on if the Charles de Gaulle will leave harbor for this disaster relief effort like they did last time? I’m sure they got all the bugs worked out by now, and since Haiti is closer, they can bring over the pommes frites and steak au poivre in about another 3 weeks, non?
I hope everyone is now happy that Obama made such efforts to apologize to these people. They only concentrate on America’s “sins” to avoid looking at the wonderful effects of their own colonialism and militarism, to say nothing of racism. They are too morally elevated to consider what the military has to offer in a catastrophe, like helicopters that can fly over the land to assess damage and then move supplies and equipment to areas no longer accessible by roads. There was only one, not prime time and not particularly long, report on German television about the effectiveness of our aircraft carriers in providing help after the tsunami. The European media have robbed their people of the ability to see big pictures of the real world. They show utopian dreams or incredibly provincial pictures of their own inadequate efforts to solve problems, and the people nod their heads, agreeing only on the stupidity of the Americans.
The highly moral head of the Lutheran church in Germany, whose greatest achievement is being the first female to hold the post, opined over Christmas that war is bad and that we should have used more diplomacy instead of resorting to military action in WWII. Such are the elite preeners of Europe. I’ll take the soldiers who knew how to repair an airport control tower any day.
Well it’s high time that President Obama apologize to the Europeans, and the Haitians. We haven’t heard a good apology from the Anointed One for several months now. Haven’t heard much from Algore recently either. Strange,, considering that Danny Glover attributed the earthquake to global warming (why is it that semi-educated buffoons rate media coverage?).
One is tempted to suggest we just leave and let the EU “save Haiti” alas we’re too responsible for that.
As for focusing attention on Haiti, the effort is futile. It is far too late for Haiti to not be Haiti. This unfortunate nation whose history is “written in blood” has no future other than an endless repetition of It’s past. While it is theoretically possible for the “People of Haiti” to change this there is little reason to believe this will actually happen.
Let this be published widely in the USA. USA put up with the insults during the tsunami disaster, and now Haiti. Why should USA not only tolerate the insults but go deeper into debt?
Next time there’s a disaster, let the EU and the UN handle it and USA (and Israel) stay behind. See what happens then.
Here’s some news from Europe: We don’t all agree with the mostly leftist MSM, these people are a bunch of ingrates forgetting that what they can now say in freedom is paid for in large quantities of American blood and that we would, probably, all be speaking Russian today. In regards to Haiti, if the US would have to wait for Europe to move its sorry behind, thousands more would have died, European politicians are only good at one thing and that is proferring gratuitous socialist opinions. They couldn’t even make their minds up about the mess in the Balkans. We are being swamped by illiterate muslim immigrants ruining our social fabric and what do they do? They prosecute and vilify the messengers. Don’t expect ‘thank you’s’ from these pathetic morons. But see who they’ll turn to when they can’t talk their way out of it and action is required..
As for turning the tragedy into a “vanity show for the television cameras,” Italy’s Guido Bertolaso has a point. But people should fault media outlets for that, not the U.S. government.
There’s something unseemly about journalists giving each other awards for covering a tragedy – and Haiti stories are sure to garner their share.
Do the work, or complain about those that do the work….it’s a binary solution set.
The ‘peans and tranzis never seem to be DOING the work….
Wow – It really is true. No good deed does go unpunished. (Particularly by “The Guardian.”)
Euros have the remarkable trait of amplifying their latent “usual idiotism” predisposition in all areas in which they meet America, i.e. enthusiastically braying notions trickled in their minds by the left-wing media apparatus – and Haiti’s case well illustrates this predisposition -
Then, we have this predisposition amplifyied by other elements always present in Euros’ mind when it comes to America:
1) cultural incompetence & provincialism, i.e. they view of America from not more informed positions than Karl May or Jules Verne had one hundred years ago –
2) jealosy caused by their manifest impotence (how can one manifest impotence? (sic) in matters where they would love to be in the front line, yet… a certain thing cannot respond…
3) then a mental inertia which keeps them regurgitating historical anachronisms (like the US being annexionist) -
Some spirituality as well – Howard Zinn died a f
ew days ago, yet the Euros are already channeling him…
You give reference to the fact that even the Euros have taken up the Obama meme of “slavery and oppression” to account for Haiti.
Haiti has had their own anti-slavery constitution as a self governing, independent republic, the third in the world since Rome. So what’s this slavery crap talk — but cheap psycho-whipping the public with ‘white guilt’?
It clearly doesn’t apply to Haiti, a constitutionally slave-free black African state for two centuries.
Troops? OF COURSE there are troops. Only the military are capable of air traffic control in anarchy. Ask the French who take over their ATC with their air force whenever they strike. Who else has all the air transports, ground vehicles, field hospitals and trained personnel to hit the ground and organize support in such situations?
The UN? You’d have to empty the bordellos of the world’s capitals to find them.
Folks, you should not blame or lambast Europe for their deficiencies. After all, the best of them came to America long ago. The brightest, self-sufficient … in short the most genetically formidable left Europe and came to America, leaving the genetic dregs behind. The elite and the truly incompetent.. opps I repeat meself
…. are what poor poor Europe has left in it’s gene pool.
Add to that the millions who died fighting the two world wars and you have removed another chunk of certain genetics that would make a People great. And that chunk was not the elite, effete, and effeminate liberal type. You can rest assured that they did everything possible to avoid service to their country.
Sad really. Europe is in one heck of a genetic, evolutionary hole and on it’s way out. A evolutionary dead end being replaced by a more vibrant.. complete people.
The only thing that Europe offers in abundance is hot air .
they are predictable to a fault.
As far as Haiti goes….Although we should help the people,
we are pouring money into a bottomless hole.
However, over the past few years we have sent billions to them, and they still have a lack of education and living conditions are a joke. Where did all that money go??? Not to the people for sure..or living conditions.
In general the people seem to be long suffering and accepting of almost anything. that is not good.
The Europeans are so wrong…and perhaps jealous…because no one can take charge and do it better than the United States military. Look at how our Navy carriers and other ships, aircraft and active duty men and women worked around the clock during the tsunami relief efforts, providing medical aid, food, drinking water and reconstruction projects on the ground months after other countries had left. You can’t say America occupied those countries, can you?
The USNS Comfort, which is in Haiti now, regularly drills in that region. In fact, in 2008, the ship treated over 98,000 persons from 12 different Latin American countries http://www.med.navy.mil/sites/usnscomfort/Pages/MSCRecentMissions.aspx. Its sister ship, the USNS Mercy, provided medical and dental care to over 90,000 people in 5 different countries in the Pacific in 2007. And that’s just a normal mission for them.
In Africa, we’ve spent billions of dollars in humanitarian and medical aid through GW Bush’s PEPFAR initiative to eradicate/treat HIV/AIDS http://www.pepfar.gov/press/81352.htm.
Assisting the poor, the oppressed, the sick, the injured, the disenfranchised and the disadvantaged is in the American DNA. Americans, and particularly the US military, are more than happy and willing to save lives. There’s no hidden agenda there.
Although there may be one for Obama, who may secretly desire to nation-build the impoverished island to make up for what he didn’t do in his Southside of Chicago community as a community organizer and state senator, and also to regain the trust of his waning black and Hispanic constituency since some are seeing him as not doing enough to help their plight. It also may be a legacy building exercise in the Caribbean, so that Cuban-Americans will see the caring, compassionate, generous but firm side of Obama, rather than Obama as a weak, rhetoric-based, appeaser, pacifist friend of Venezuela’s Chavez.
Also, the so-called occupation of Haiti to prevent its refugees from coming to the US, as opined in some European newspapers, is a non-issue because Obama favors giving illegal immigrants amnesty to garner their support and votes. He’s even allowed Haitian deportees to extend their stay in the US by as much as 18 months. Who knows what happens to those illegals after the 18 months. I guess they’ll be long gone by then.
Anyhow, bottom line is that America is good, generous and kind-hearted. Once the work is done, we leave unless the country asks us to stay a bit longer to help secure, protect and defend…like in Japan, South Korea, Germany, Iraq, Qatar, Bahrain, etc., etc., etc.
“” … the Pentagon viewed the earthquake as an opportunity to turn (Haiti) into the 51st American State. “”
Not 0zero’s Pentagon!
It viewed the earthquake as yet another crisis to not waste.
AND as an opportunity to turn (Haiti) into the 59th — or so — American State.
Wow, did that newspaper really compare the country of Haiti to child that needs to be diapered and fed? And they claim we’re arrogant….
Yes, the U.S. has been waiting anxiously for some disaster, any disaster, that would give it the opportunity to seize that pearl of an island paradise, that jewel of the Carribbean: Haiti.
let them eat cake
Let Europe adopt Haiti. We need to get out of there once food and water supplies are reliable. Let Europe rebuild the infrastructure on their own tab.
Soren Kern describes a sad tale of European resentment towards the US. It truly is a never ending saga with many of these people. I can’t understand their ingratitude, it is so disconected from reality. I understand their resentment of US culture, hell their are certain aspects of our culture I as a native find distasteful, but I can’t see why the western Europeans don’t see how lucky they are to be at peace with and largely protected by the US. I suppose it is a disgust born of weakness. How completely and utterly pathetic. Ungrateful too.
Broomer at 16, right on, but Americans invariably empathize with bearers of tragedy and try to help. And the rest of the world kicks us for it.I guess we have to ignore their childishness.
Rogerela at 17, thanks for your acknowledgement, you seem to understand.
I wonder whether any Euro papers will report on the WaPo article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/31/AR2010013102725.html?hpid=topnews
It seems that the Haitians rather like our military.
@6. sdraio
No matter how justified the criticism may be, it pales in significance to how pathetic it is to criticize a relief effort to which you yourself are contributing nothing.
it seems as if the less you contribute, the more criticism you have for those who do. And what is the crux of this criticism anyway, that American motives are not pure enough? As if it’s better to have pure motives and nothing. As if doing nothing proves how pure your motives are.
I don’t give a tinkers damn about what any of the Europeans have to say about anything. They never do anything about anything anyway. They might as well not even exist when it comes to the real problems in our world.
The idea of an Imperial United States is just too stupid to believe. It would be like we want the problems of Haiti any more than we want Europe and its problems. The United States has the distinction of being the only superpower in the history of the world, who hasn’t tried to conquer the world. While we are far from where we will go, at the present we are blazing the trail of the social evolution of this world. Mealy mouthed Europeans should notice what we have accomplished, and try to understand the power of individual liberty.
Ask the average Haitian if we should leave. To think that this is a take-over of Haiti is absurd. Why would we want to adopt the poorest country in the western hemisphere. The Euros and the UN are pathetic. They bitch and moan, we deliver food, water and hope.
The next time the Germans want all of Europe, let them have it.
This is a clear case of “projection”.
They accuse us of aims and motives they themselves would harbor were they in our place! There is no good in Europe’s motivations; therefore, in their eyes there can be no good in America’s.
The underlying truth is that America is morally, spiritually, and otherwise in all cases BETTER than Europe! This is the truth noisy Europeans flail against. It is revealed again every time another disaster somewhere in the world is answered by America, while Europe dithers, squabbles and soils her diapers!
Thank you to 888.
While reading the miserably bitter nonsense quoted within the news articles, all I could picture in my mind, was the 1000+ hospital beds floating off of the coast of Haiti.
I do wonder though,if Barack Obama will see there is little he or anyone else can do to modify the decades old, and thoroughly ingrained disdane for which the European Nations hold towards America?
Yep, I was worried that are ships would have a difficult time finding a parking place what which all those that were there from france and germany and italy and england.
And of of course I was worried that our medical people would be shamed by those from cuba and venezuela.
Not to mention the oil we can now steal.
Actually, if for it were not for the current misery of the Haitian people I would say pack up and come home and screw the europeans.
Whatever. Just keep those doors wide open for the millions of muslims seeking entry into Europe. In 30 years Haiti will seem like the land of the free.
http://worldmeets.us/elsoldemexico000001.shtml (check the video)
Next time we invade Europe, lets shoot all of them.
Haiti. Medical evacs suspended amid dispute in US over who pays. http://bit.ly/bSdsSd quand on prétend être le + grand donateur, faut assumer
Somali Pirates Will DONATE For HAITI http://bit.ly/93VZUe
At the same time, Florida officials complain that the military and medical NGOs in Haiti have done a poor job of keeping them informed about incoming flights and the kinds of high-level injuries on board. “We need a better coordinating plan from the federal government,” says Florida Division of Emergency Management spokesman John Cherry
http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2fgMqW/www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1953379_1953494,00.html
The U.S. and its international partners knew from the start that aiding the victims of Haiti’s Jan. 12 earthquake would be a logistical nightmare. Yet while their response has been laudable, less than tight coordination among government, nongovernmental and military forces has frequently undermined the effort. Right after the quake, for example, the U.S. aircraft carrier Carl Vinson raced into Port-au-Prince Bay, only to find that the U.S., the U.N. and NGOs had gotten relatively scant relief supplies in place for its helicopters to deliver. The military made its own missteps too, rerouting Doctors Without Borders flights and giving the impression that its foot soldiers mattered more to the relief campaign than physicians did.
But things seemed to hit a dysfunctional low point over the weekend when all those relief components began blaming one another for a suspension of military medevac flights from Haiti to Florida for more than four days — a decision that doctors say risked scores of patient deaths in Haiti. The military, whose large C-130 transport planes had until Jan. 27 ferried out some 500 of the worst injured, indicated that it halted the flights because Florida hospitals could no longer receive the patients owing to cost concerns that Republican Governor Charlie Crist expressed in a letter to the Obama Administration. Crist and the hospitals deny that assertion — “It’s untrue,” Crist said on Saturday, calling it “astounding” that the military would interpret his letter that way — and say they only asked the feds to help the economically battered state bear the long-term, multimillion-dollar price of treating Haiti’s most seriously wounded casualties.
For its part, the Administration acknowledged that Crist’s letter had not prompted the flight suspension and insisted that it was simply a logistical issue — one it promised to have resolved by Monday morning, when the flights were expected to resume. “It’s a matter of finding [U.S.] medical facilities with the capacity to treat such a large amount of [critically injured] people and near runways where C-130s can land,” White House spokesman Tommy Vietor told TIME. Vietor announced on Sunday that the U.S. had successfully “worked to increase cooperation with our international partners, NGOs and states to expand access to additional facilities.” Crist said military planes were still flying less seriously injured people, including three on Sunday, to Florida hospitals.
At the same time, Florida officials complain that the military and medical NGOs in Haiti have done a poor job of keeping them informed about incoming flights and the kinds of high-level injuries on board. “We need a better coordinating plan from the federal government,” says Florida Division of Emergency Management spokesman John Cherry. He points to one recent instance in which a transport plane took a serious burn victim to an unaware Tampa facility that couldn’t treat the injury, forcing state officials to redirect the patient to one much further north in Gainesville.
On the ground in Haiti, doctors warn that the halting of flights meant hundreds of critically injured patients, including those with potentially fatal infections from lost limbs, could have died. “They need a degree of expertise and facilities not available anywhere here or on the Navy hospital ship Comfort” out in Port-au-Prince Bay, says Dr. Barth Green, chairman of the University of Miami’s Global Institute for Community Health and Development, which is running a field hospital at the Haitian capital’s Toussaint Louverture International Airport. “We’re only talking about shipping out a few hundred patients, not thousands. But while people are dying, we don’t know who to talk to and no one seems to know who made the decision to stop these flights.” (On Sunday, a private jet circumvented the medevac muddle and whisked three critically injured Haitian children to a Philadelphia hospital.)
Even if the number of seriously injured patients being medevacked to Florida hasn’t reached the thousands, state health officials say it has begun to strain their hospital infrastructure — which is also bracing for an influx of tourists for next weekend’s Super Bowl in Miami. In his letter to Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius last week, Crist expressed fears that “Florida’s health care system is quickly reaching saturation, especially in the area of high-level trauma care.” On Saturday, he said the state’s tab for the Haitian care had already reached $7 million, and that Washington needed to pitch in as well as help find hospitals and landing sites in other states. Toward that end, he also asked Sebelius to make an exception and activate the National Disaster Medical System, established for domestic emergencies, for the Haitians.
Disaster experts say Crist and his state could have avoided confusion by making it clearer from the outset that the letter didn’t mean they wouldn’t take any more Haitian victims. But it’s still unclear why Crist’s missive triggered a suspension of the medical flights on Wednesday evening — a move that Florida officials fumed made them the hardhearted scapegoats — or why the Homeland Security Department stopped issuing humanitarian-parole waivers, which allow non-U.S. citizen patients like the Haitian victims to be taken to U.S. facilities. (One Crist aide angrily denied that Crist’s letter had anything to do with him looking more the fiscal conservative as he battles his party’s right wing for its U.S. Senate nomination this year.)
As complaints roll in from medical NGOs, Crist and Florida hospital administrators insist that their doors are still open to Haitians. “We’re willing to do whatever it takes to treat people if we have the capability,” says Cherry, “and worry about the costs later.”
Meanwhile, the military’s U.S. Transportation Command, which controls the flights, on Saturday directed questions about the decision to the White House. Officials there said they didn’t want to take part in the blame game. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers says it plans to build a 250-bed tent hospital in Port-au-Prince to relieve the strain. But at this point, it appears that no one and everyone is to blame for the snafu. And that means an already difficult Haitian relief effort — from the White House to the U.N., from military brass to Florida officials and NGOs — risks looking like a victim itself. The difference is that their wounds seem self-inflicted.
Times on line
the US government already created, trained, and equipped the previous version of the Haitian army — originally called the Garde d’Haiti (Guard of Haiti) and then the Forces Armees d’Haiti or FADH (Armed Forces of Haiti) — from 1934 to 1994. Many FADH officers were also trained individually or in small groups on various military bases around the US. ”
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/43a/195.html
Then why was an MSF cargo plane carrying, among other badly needed supplies, an inflatable surgical hospital, not allowed to land in Port-au-Prince on Saturday and re-routed to the Dominican Republic? Despite assurances from the United Nations and the Defense Department that its planes would be allowed in? ”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mona-gable/doctors-without-borders-i_b_427470.html
France has accused the U.S. of occupying quake-devastated Haiti, saying Washington is hindering the relief effort with its troops surge. More foreign soldiers and police are being sent to the Island-nation, where looting and violence are on the rise, as people are still desperate for vital supplies – a week after the disaster. The French minister in charge of humanitarian relief, Alain Joyandet, has asked the UN to clarify America’s role in Haiti. He says after US troops took charge of the main airport, they’ve been turning away aircraft carrying aid, in favour of military planes. French President Nicolas Sarkozy’s office tried to play down reports of the rift with the U.S, saying cooperation between the two countries was going well. But the charity Doctors without Borders backed Joyandet’s call to the UN, adding that aid delays threaten lives. ”
“Publicly, US officials are taking the absurd position that they do not know the contents of humanitarian aid flights and cannot decide whether they deserve priority to land. Citing discussions with US General Ken Keen, commanding operations in Haiti, the Washington Post wrote, “if an air traffic controller doesn’t know what’s on an incoming plane, then he doesn’t know what priority to give it.” Apparently, priority goes to US military flights. Keen said: “If the young airman [controlling air traffic] has three planes coming in and he knows what’s on one of them, he’s going to land that one.”
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/jan2010/hait-j21.shtml
uh amateurism !
“43. Marie Claude:
Haiti. Medical evacs suspended amid dispute in US over who pays.”
There should not be any dispute who should pay. France should pay.. it is their mess we are cleaning up after all. Perhaps it is past time to see that the ancestors of France’s slaves receive just compensation from France…. perhaps Brittany.
Hey don’t blame us …it is Obama’s fault! Remember he has never really done much more than give speeches, he has never run anything or had to make a payroll!
Haiti: HOWTO set up a plug-and-play hospital – Doctors Without Borders
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/21/haiti-howto-set-up-a.html
http://www.lemonde.fr/ameriques/article/2010/01/29/a-port-au-prince-le-ravage-des-amputations_1298384_3222.html
surgery : cut and run
Fantom since 1804 you had your times to play your part there
stop whinning, we have seen your results
In retrospect,we should have left the nazis and the soviets “occupy”Europe.Europe is terminal.US out of NATO NOW!
I must admit, in spite of the suffering this would likely prolong, I am in agreement with several of the other posters here.
If Italy and France and other European countries do nothing but complain about how the US handles disaster relief, I say we withdraw all our support and tell Europe, “It’s all yours. Don’t come knocking when it turns out to be more than you can handle.”
I’m tired of the crybabies who want everything we can give them (and more) and then curse us behind our back.
France should extend French citizenship to all Haitians and accept on her territory any Haitian (and, thus, French) citizen who’d like to move there. As France belongs now to the EU, this should also apply to pratically every European country. The EU should immediately build at least two brand new airports in Haiti and start regular, free, non-stop flights from Haiti to Europe.
As the enslavement of Africans was started and is still continued by Arabs and/or Muslims, all Arab and Muslim countries shoud also behave in the same way and, for a start, transfer automatically 50% of all their oil revenues to the Haitian people.
Anyway, it is mostly the EU that should be dealing with this problem right now and it is time for the Americans to go home and spend their hard earned money on their own citizens and country.
Peter, the crybabies, so far, it’s you, the net plebe !
Bravo, Marie Claude.
For your pièce de résistance, why don’t you floor us with some links to those many articles documenting the limitless abundance and absolute flawlessness of the relief efforts provided to Haiti by…
Bartok you forget that the Haitian fought for their independance, and they still will if you want to use their cheap labor force to replace some Chineses that have become above of your possibilities
So, Marie Claude, perhaps you can tell us when we should expect the FS Charles DeGaulle to pull in to lend a hand at Port au Prince? You seem to be the expert.
I just love being lectured to about Haiti BY FRANCE. the hypocrisy is just stunning.
Peter, are your Popeye means so effective ?
michiganruth:
see, the articles are written in english, so who are lecturing you ?
pathetic
Touché, Marie Claude.
But what really won me over to your way of seeing things was that link about Somali pirates donating to Haiti. I mean, by comparison, US efforts do look amateaurish indeed!
And that obviously proves your point about cheap labor forces.
Poor, poor Europe. Once a great continent slowly and tortuously dying away. No replacement population for its indigenous population, while being overwhelmed by an Islamic wave of immigration. Alas, reduced to churlish criticism in the vain hope of still being thought relevant. What a sad ending for a people who gave the world so much.
Yes, after we save Haiti, we can let the french back in for the photo op and the remaining cleanup. We can even film it as a reality show for laughs….
Europe should not bite the hand…as America feeds it….
On a more serious note, its a good time to rebuild the entire country, … make it kind of like a foreign Hawaii, then annex it and give it statehood. That would solve their biggest problems for sure. Se la vie?
Apparently my so-called ‘popeye’ means are very effective, because I have yet to see you post an actual answer to the crisis, where is France’s aid? Meanwhile, the US has been providing food, security, hospital aid in the form of both mobile hospitals and the USNS Comfort, coordination so that planes don’t all crash into each other on the limited ramp space of the working Haitian airports, etc.
If you can’t contribute anything relevant, like actual aid to Haiti, may I suggest you stay off site such as this and waste your time on site more to your persuasion, like Kos?
Excusez-moi, Marie-Claude, mais la France, qui a arme et protege les genocidaires rwandais et qui n’a pas hesite a offrir l’asile politique (!) a Jean-Claude et Michele Duvalier, n’a aucune lecon a donner aux Etats-Unis en matiere d’aide humanitaire!!!
C’est mon avis.
To Chantal @ #69:
Thank you.
Peter good reverse psychology
If one needs an in situ specimen of the diseased and nasty state of the poisonous French psyche, witness the French troll “Marie Claude” hijacking this thread at
2, 3, 41, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 55, 59, 61, and 64 with her anti-American French agitprop.
For the record, after the Haitians fought for over a decade beginning in 1791 to throw off the heinous yoke of French oppression and slavery. In 1803 Haiti’s ragtag band of ex-slaves finally DEFEATED the Whore of Babylon’s navy in 1804. LOL. LOL. LOL. But France, being the bitter cankered slut that she is, returned like a zombie and used her new sizable fleet to pick on tiny Haiti for the ensuing century and beyond. Beginning in the 1820s, like Muslim brigands and terrorists, France extorted hundreds of millions in gold ransom from Haiti under the constant threat of blockades and/or the threat of invasion. So after enslaving Haiti, the wicked vile whore-nation of France raped Haiti again for mountains of blood gold.
It is an outrageous, but perfect illustration of the vile psyche of the French to read the vicious agitprop French and their apologist vermin are allowed to spread in a thread like this. For such scum to cast aspersions on American aid efforts is mind boggling. But thanks for illustrating the utter nastiness of your French minds. :0
Chantal regardes,
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB53/press.html
Jean Claude Duvalier a été déposé par l’Administration Clinton, fais un effort, cherches sur le net, c’est tout écrit !
avant d’écrire des idioties, faut vérifier
uh mon petit saucisson
Jefferson help Napoleon, so that’s making of you a complice
ooh lala the thread is goin to be a butchery, thanks to Al Gore (the inventor of the net, hein Saucisson
)I have my ammunitions
71. Marie Claude wrote:
Peter good reverse psychology
Peter writes: And I’m STILL waiting to hear when the French fleet is supposed to show up at Port au Prince and start helping feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, and secure the battered country of Haiti.
I can tell you when the US fleet showed up. 13 January!
Ok. Today’s Monday. Should be able to have all the United States forces out of there by Friday. Then the Yuropeens can take over and show the world how to get ‘er done.
Morton (72):
I understand how you feel, but the US doesn’t come off too well with regard to Haiti either – check out this article at http://www.countercurrents.org/quigley170110.htm entitled Why the US owes Haiti Billions: It says, inter alia:
“In 1804, when Haiti achieved its freedom from France in the world’s first successful slave revolution, the United States refused to recognize the country. The US continued to refuse recognition to Haiti for 60 more years. Why? Because the US continued to enslave millions of its own citizens and feared recognizing Haiti would encourage slave revolution in the US.
After the 1804 revolution, Haiti was the subject of a crippling economic embargo by France and the US. US sanctions lasted until 1863. France ultimately used its military power to force Haiti to pay reparations for the slaves who were freed. The reparations were 150 million francs. (France sold the entire Louisiana territory to the US for 80 million francs!)
Haiti was forced to borrow money from banks in France and the US to pay reparations to France. A major loan from the US to pay off the French was finally paid off in 1947. The current value of the money Haiti was forced to pay to French and US banks? Over $20 Billion – with a big B.”
Seen in that light, the “millions” being sent as humanitarian aid following the earthquake seem like pretty small peanuts, n’est-ce-pas?
Maybe everybody should just shut up about this and send a couple of dollars or euros)to the Haitians to atone for what our forefathers did to them.
Per wrote a connerie, how far is Haiti from the US ? and how far Haiti is from Europe ? so you”re insulting your super IQ, do the calcul
“O.K., Europe, pony up or shut up.”
They’ll never do either.
Eurocrats have no credibility. We should only toss their criticism up in the air and bat it around for our own amusement. We should certainly never take it to heart.
Please! We are wasting entirely too much time on the criticism issue. Does anybody really care what the French/Germans/Brits/Belgians/Dutch/etc. think about anything? They are second-rate. We just need to remind them (again)to “Put Up or Shut Up”.
79. Marie Claude wrote:
Per wrote a connerie, how far is Haiti from the US ? and how far Haiti is from Europe ?
Peter writes: It’s been more than two weeks since the quake first struck. It takes 5 to 7 days (depending on actual speed) to cross the Atlantic. (I know, I’ve done it multiple times.)
Stop obfuscating. Tell everyone here if you’re so proud of it;
When exactly does the French fleet arrive to feed the hungry, house the homeless, heal the injured, provide security for those feeling the terror of gangs? Please tell everyone, when do the French arrive???
You can’t answer that, because they haven’t left port yet, have they? The French are too busy complaining about the US actually doing the real work to consider possibly participating in any meaningful way. It’s easier to complain then it is to send your woefully inadequate military to do the job your complaining about yourself, isn’t it?
I repeat my first comment on this thread. In spite of all the suffering it will prolong, I would be more than happy to have the US withdraw all its forces and tell the French, the Italians, and all the other big mouth crybabies to step up to the plate and handle this disaster themselves. And again, don’t come knocking on our door when it turns out to be more overwhelming than you expected. Or when the next disaster strikes their own countries, because obviously they can handle their own matters themselves.
Hopatch 6
why are you ranting ?
Peter
in spite of being proxy, your ship wasn’t in Port au prince, say, 48 hours after the quake, but more than a week !
now, idem for France, you need to prepare the fret for the expedition
you’re deceving me, I thought you were more, say, “aware”, but wasn’t your partisanery blurring your super mind ?
Marie Claude,
I think you know enough about our history to pass our citizenship test. Why don’t you come to the USA and find out how much we accomplish as individuals here. You might even have fun trying to accomplish something yourself. You could organize a more efficient disaster relief organization than the ones you have seen in Haiti, Guatemala, Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh and France.
The criticism is invalid, because there is no possible preparation for massive natural disasters. You can have some guidelines from each prior experience, but each disaster is unprecedented. Haiti is a massive disaster threatening the lives of millions of Haitians. Without the U.S. effort, they would likely ALL die.
No one else could intervene on such a massive logisitical scale. Being a superpower is not about the size of one’s armies. It is about the ability of the nation to project that power around the world… of having the logisitical capacity to support a far-away effort.
We are only human. Always mistakes will be made. It will not go smoothly. Our military has more experience than anyone else at this kind of task. No one else would do better. Indeed, they would ALL do worse.
Mistakes are made. Think of the guy controlling landing decisions. He has been coordinating with American flights, because the command and control systems are in place to enable it. Suddenly, some foreign flight wants to land. No coordination has been made in advamce. What does he do? He turns them away. Is this his fault, or is it the fault of the stupid, arrogant foreigners who did not coordinate ahead of time with the U.S. who controls the airport?
If the Euros had any competence, they would be scheduling ahead of time, providing manifests, and also asking which items are most needed, and then working with the U.S. on prioritizing items and deliveries. We’re the ones with some semblance of a plan. They come in with their ad hoc, uncoordinated efforts, adding further confusion to a difficult situation. They have no plan. They bumble. Then they blame US for THEIR incompetence.
We control the airfield, because only WE have the necessary extra capability to do this. This is the reality. They refuse to acknowledge this fact in their arrogance. They rail against it out of petty envy. So, they insist that they should be free to land as freely as our aircraft. Well, no, you can’t. It’s our airfield, because without us, there is no functional airfield, so make a freaking reservation, already!
But, as long as their massive egos get in the way, and they demand “equal standing” with the U.S., they will continue to interfere instead of helping, and they will continue to blame us. It’s all about their egos being bruised. They hate that they are not our equals in all things. The criticism is NOT about our mistakes. It’s about their petty need for “equal standing”. Notice, btw, that equal standing does not mean equal effort or responsibility.
You do know what this is REALLY all about, right?
If the UN ran this most of the money would be pocketed by the various relatives of UN officials and EU bureaucrats. Fitful amounts of aid would be doled out (mostly in front of camera’s) to those who the Europeans and various favored leftist groups attached to popular gov’ts like Venezuela and Syria that had made deals with to split the profits.
At the same time they’d ALL be screaming they need more money and that the Imperialist, racist, Americans won’t give money to another group of black people they’ve robbed and oppressed for decades.
And the Haitians?
A few people in various gangs and other corrupt groups would get rich and be set up to take over when the photo-op was done.
The rest of Haiti….many more would suffer and die. A lot of surviving women and young girls would get raped by UN and European soldiers and 10 times as many children would taken away as slaves and by sex-traffickers as are involved in doing it now.
The few Western (mostly American and often Christian) NGO’s that were trying to help would be wiped out or at least driven out by all the usual parties and Haiti would go on being a horrific cesspool where no hope or future existed.
AND EVERYONE WOULD STILL BLAME THE UNITES STATES FOR ALL OF IT.
To Marie, who obviously can’t even use the internet to competently research facts:
The United States Coast Guard cutters USCGC Forward (WMEC-911) and USCGC Mohawk (WMEC-913), both arrived in the port of Port au Prince, Haiti, on January 13. A Maritime Intelligence Support Team aboard the Forward assessed damage to the port. The cutters were supported by the destroyer USS Higgins (DDG-76). Two United States Air Force special operations MC-130H Combat Talon II aircraft also arrived January 13 with emergency supplies, medical units and special tactics teams.
Now, again, when does the French fleet arrive? It’s been almost three weeks. A sailboat could be there by now.
I think Europe is correct. The UN should get the h### out of America, and take care of Haiti.
What a bunch of Marxists.
Marc
“Suddenly, some foreign flight wants to land”
but priority was given to the Clintons smala and to the american troops
“Despite assurances from the United Nations and the Defense Department that its planes would be allowed in?”
I guess it was more important to keep the airport free for the Clintons and the marines,and or to evacuate american citizens, when “Doctors without borders” wanted to bring their campain hospital, that people need so badly
sdraio,
America isn’t perfect, it’s just better then anywhere else. Haiti is further proof of that. Most of the criticism of the US Relief effort is caused by the blockage at the Airport. Since that sole airport wasn’t able to handle the amount of traffic that wanted to land there, priorities were established.
Those priorities were based on the needs of the survivors, NOT the needs of politicians. Naturally, those politicians were offended. Hubris is the word, I think. Because it was important to those politicians that they be seen on camera landing with aid for the refugees, they felt they had a priority over water, food and medical supplies. In the case of Brazil, blankets.
So the criticism stems from self-important people being told they weren’t all that important. Not as important as water, food, or medial supplies. It has nothing to do with the relief efforts.
Those relief efforts were enough to keep the death toll to about half what it would have been if the UN and the Euros had had their way.
Perfection is always a goal, but never an achievement.
The real issue is that Haiti is a 3rd world nation. Several years ago California had a WORSE earthquake and the death toll was 0, Zero, Nand, Sip, Bumpkiss. That is because the USA has construction codes and code enforcement. If the 3rd world had such things, 3rd worlders wouldn’t die like flies every time mother nature gets frisky.
When a 3rd world country tries to pass construction code laws, the Contractors bribe the politicians to relax the codes to the point of being useless. On the rare cases were an effective code is established, the inspectors get bribed to ignore it. And 3rd worlders die. Haiti can be rebuilt and probably will. Then another earthquake or hurricane will destroy it again, killing thousands. It will the USA that does the heavy lifting next time also.
And some piss-ant politician will again whine about not getting his face on the evening news.
Marie wrote: I guess it was more important to keep the airport free for the Clintons and the marines,and or to evacuate american citizens, when “Doctors without borders” wanted to bring their campain hospital, that people need so badly
Peter requests: Perhaps Marie, in all her immense wisdom, can explain where the ATC’s were supposed to park planes when all the spaces on the ground were filled with planes already off-loading? The French started their hissy fit when they weren’t allowed to land a plane with a few doctors aboard because there were 16 planes sitting on the tarmac of the only operable airport that can hold a maximum of 16 planes on the tarmac.
Maybe Marie, in all its magnificence, could figure out a way for the newly arriving planes to simply hover in the air until such time as the plaes already on the ground could depart? Or better yet, maybe Marie can send the FS Charles DeGaulle so helecopters would have a place to set down and deliver supplies, much like the US Fleet has done?
Peter
ol right, drones also were there too
http://shar.es/aTH2b
though your hospital ship ?
Jim Baker,
thanks for the invitation, I stillprefer my mess to yours
Peter,
“Despite assurances from the United Nations and the Defense Department that its planes would be allowed in?”
does that tilt into your brillant brain ?
Doctor without borders isn’t an organisation that is born from yesterday, it has been on most of the catastrophes and wars places, so imagine, they know that some necessary rules must be forecasted when they intend to land somewhere, not you apparently !
No foreign power from Europe or Asia shall be allowed in the Americas without our permission.
Marie wrote: though your hospital ship?
Peter writes: Pulled out of drydock where she was undergoing needed maintenance just to provide medical support for the Haitians. And where was France’s?
The United States Navy hospital ship USNS Comfort (T-AH-20) with 1,000 beds and 956 naval hospital staff was deployed to Haiti, as were the guided-missile frigate USS Underwood (FFG-36), and the guided missile cruiser USS Normandy (CG-60).
On January 13, 2010, the USNS Comfort was ordered to assist in the humanitarian relief efforts following the 2010 Haiti earthquake as part of Operation Unified Response. Three days later on January 16 the Comfort left the Port of Baltimore bound for Haiti. It arrived Wednesday, January 20, 2010 and began medical treatment early that day. The deployment marks the first time the ship has reached full operational capacity, utilizing all 12 operating rooms and beds, since it was delivered to the Navy in 1987. The mission also saw the ship’s first on-board delivery, of a 4-pound, 5-ounce preemie named Esther. Although the ship is less capable than a traditional hospital on land, it offers the most advanced medical care available in Haiti following the earthquake.
And again, where’s the French hospital ship? Perhaps Marie can answer, instead of constantly obfuscating because the facts refute every point he/she/it attempts to make.
And while it has been fun making Marie look like the fool he/she/it truly is on the losing end of this arguement, I have some real work that must be attended to. G’night fellow patriots. Goodnight moonbats like Marie.
I’m starting to think that for people like Marie, criticizing American hospital ships is a sort of moral equivalent of providing hospital ships of your own.
“Well, we may not be providing diddley ourselves, but at least we’re doing our part in criticizing the US.”
Or something like that.
Peter, of course you are the best, the most generous (uh you cut so many legs and arms in such a short time) !
http://videos.tf1.fr/jt-20h/haiti-trop-de-blesses-amputes-5667177.html
surgeon N°1 about the american surgeries “cutting off”: “ça demande énormément d’investisment, mais peut-être que les Haitiens ne méritent pas ça”
surgeon N°2 about what an american surgeon told her: -”est-ce que vous êtes déjà venue à Haiti? -uh non -Mais c’est un pays pauvre, sous-développé, ils n’ont pas d’hopitaux, pas de cliniques, ou de chirurgiens… qu’est-ce qu’ils vont faire dans 6 mois avec leur fixateurs externes, donc ça ne sert à rien de leur en mettre, donc l’amputation était une opération économique”
so time is money, and the Haitians have no money, so bye bye legs, arms … heads, zut, ils en ont pas !
You will notice that all the ballin’ and hollerin’ in them furren papers was writ in their native languages – not in GERMAN nor RUSSKI – except the German and Russki papers, I mean.
And, you know why? Cause Americans came and bailed them our of their own self-created (inside of europe) mess. I agree with the dude who said, the next time we invade europe, shoot ‘em all. Which won’t take much cause they done surrendered all their guns and we still got all ours.
Maybe they can get a UN resolution to bar the U.S. of A. from kickin’ in any more money and help. No, they’ll never do that no more than you can take Marie Claude’s keyboard away from her.
I also love the way she takes credit for an altogether trans-national non-sectarian doctor’s NGO, and claims their effort on behalf of France. She is a lying propagandizing tool for a scabrous nation of dirtbags.
Peter the Bubblehead,
Nice try bud, but you know that whatever you have to say, you won’t have the last word with Marie Claude the all knowing.
Where are the European medical ships?
When Europe can put their open hearts where their mouths are…maybe we’ll listen. next time they have a catastrophic event, we’ll print crappy stuff about how they should have tried harder, done it different as sit on our collective @$$e$ and go about our business…let them eat that freakin’ cake.
It’s silly. Instead of trying to pull together, the little pinheads in the European press like to gather like rats and pull others down to their level. They’re not out there in the muck and mire, pulling people out, burying people, providing food and care.
Plus, and I do believe this is a fact…no matter what gets done in Haiti…give it 5 years and it will again be the hell hole it has always been. A Caribbean jewel..not… There is no amount of money that will change it. Changing takes more than money. Perhaps the generation coming up is savagable.
These people still sell their children into slavery and prostitution, check out the restaveks. And worse, there are people that buy these kids for their own use. they need guidance of a higher power than this world.
When Europe , Chavez and DANNY GLOVER>>can clean their own house, they can give advice, until then..@^@*%:)%$$:(!!!! Boycott Europe
Jim Baker, up to you to inform yourself, instead of whinning, or throwing at us your superior contempt
annie, what’s the hell you are pretending to be the good people, when you’re saying like your surgeons, no nead to preserve legs or arms, cuz Haiti is a poor hell, you’d better mind your own dollars, cuz that is your crucial matter
Naif Mabat, good guy, you just understood the rules of the game
old cowboy, and tutti quanti that bring the good ol times of WWII
check what this links says about it (BTW link brought on this board by one of the famous commenters, just that that was for the corruption of the federal reserve)
http://www.barefootsworld.net/fs_m_ch_07.html
“79. Marie Claude:
Per wrote a connerie, how far is Haiti from the US ? and how far Haiti is from Europe ? ”
Heh, how far was Normandy from the U.S.? You know the last time we saved you Frogs. Speaking of which, there are a lot of American families you owe something to. Something more than a nicely mowed burial plot.
Calais to Normandy would be appropriate would it not?
As for the lack of a response from France being because it is so so far away. Haiti was not so far away when you were filling it with slaves and milking it’s production. Why not have you been paying your moral debt since then?
Port Au Prince should have been able to withstand the quake if France had paid it’s debt. You have only had a couple of centuries to repay the Danegeld you took.
Now, now, now, Marie Claude. I mean, certainly la belle France is more than willing to help out the Haitians, right? After all, it is the least you could do for bankrupting them until what….1947, with that incredibly unfair “reparations” your country demanded for property lost in their slave rebellion?
I believe the original amount demanded was equivalent to $5 billion. Your greedy country wasn’t satisfied until they extorted almost $22 billion. France couldn’t defeat them on the battlefield, so they crippled them financially and left them the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere.
Bravo. That’s something to be truly proud of.
We couldn’t do anything worse to them if we tried.
So as long as we’re talking morality here, shouldn’t you at least return half of the $17 billion overpayment that was stolen from the Haitians to help them when they need it most?
(Yeah, I know….you’ll get right on it….and it’s coming over on the good ship Charles de Gaulle, oui? Liberte, fraternite et hipocrisie….)
I’m wondering, in addition to bashing the USA, how much Israel-bashing there was, given how prompt and efficient their emergency response was in Haiti.
I wonder how many European media outlets bashed Israel for using this to mask their abusive (in the eyes of the Euro-morons, not in my eyes) treatment of Europe’s beloved Palenazis in Gaza.
One obvious point these Euro-morons were too stupid to point out — the United States is not some abstraction to Haitians — with over a million Haitians in the USA, everybody still in Haiti has a family member in the USA, and I venture the remittances of Haitian-Americans back home have been a backbone to their economy, especially now.
To Haitians, the USA is not just a country, it’s a country where their brother or sister or son or daughter lives.
ahhhh…Marie Claude..a.k.a, Kook Aid Girl
It will be interesting to see what the Somali pirates actually do..like Obama getting the NPP for what he …wants to do…not doing..so, it is a wait and see situation. I think it would be great if they gave back what they stole from hard working people on the high seas…so far, nothing…
You are disgusting to suggest that any surgeon, even one from France, would chop off a human limb because some one is poor. Those are NOT the facts.
These people had life threatening infections, and limbs so badly damaged they could not be repaired, and they are doing the best any one could, even your pathetic part of the world. Because you see…the very best of the Europeans left there manymanymany years ago..they came to America and left the dregs that are there today..
“there are many who do not trust U.S. leadership in the management tasks”
Neither do we, but who will do the management? The UN. Oops, they need US military transports to get there. The EU. They navel gaze while Haiti burns. The Chinese. They sent $4 millions. Psst: Hollywood big mouths got $65 million in a couple of hrs.
Lili von Shtupp, your nic is saying all, because it was all benefit for your bankers ! see the above link, your stupp family financed the 2 WW wars too, so could e just say it was just reparations, but in the meanwhile how many deads ? so keep your moral for your eves
Fantom, too bad you’re broke, no Dday forecasted soon, but aso no WW war too !
Marie Claude, ah….here comes the Jooo bashing. A little late, but at least you managed to sneak it in.
No, dearest, all that money went to your government. Maybe someone Jewish got a cut, but virtually all beneficiaries of the extortion extracted from the Haitians were French.
(BTW….I’m of Nordic descent. Not a drop of semitic blood in my veins, nor that of my sweetie. The nic I use was from a Mel Brooks movie. Blazing Saddles. Rent it sometime. You may not enjoy it as much as a Jerry Lewis movie, but I still think it’s hilarious.)
Carol, moi Kool aid, ya don’t know me !
ma chére ingénue these are medias documents, not my inventions, so if you pick only articles that suit your vision of the events, don’t forget that many other documents can contradict t’em, you’re just making them illustrate what you want , as the author of this thread did, and that many of the good ol people of this blog would too, chacun sa vérité !
le mieux c’est d’entendre ce que les Haitiens pensent, à ton avis ?
Lol. Trolls are hilarious. They just cover their ears and screech. You bury them under facts and they find a way to ignore them completely and keep making the same unfounded accusations.
The brilliant and wonderful General George Patton, whose biggest mistake was liberating France, summed those verminous French up thus: “I’d rather have a whole German division in front of me than a French one protecting my rear.” When asked what he’d do if confronted with such an eventuality, he said “Dammit – I’d start shooting in both directions!” That guy knew a thing or two about their national character having saved their yellow asses …
For all those above who doubt French capabilities, just remember this: French elite secret service actually bombed and sank a Greenpeace trawler in New Zealand! Secretly! At night! Very complicated operation! Wearing SCUBA! Greenpeace! Under water! At night!
try bable fish…it translate better than what ever it is are using. just tryin to act cute huh..guess you’re from some basement in Newark.
you are boring and predictible in your hatred of america. you seem to want to distort the facts about America.
sometimes you talk normal then other times you try to act french, grow up.
Marie Claude,
I do not need to know you personally. I read you vetriolic posts, they speak for you personally.
Oui, il serait bon d’entendre ce que le Hatians ont à dire à vous, tout ce qu’on entend est «merci» d’un peuple reconnaissant. Peu importe ce que vous ou dans la presse européenne pense, il n’est tout simplement pas d’importance.
L’Amérique était la première, Haïti est proche. Nous avons beaucoup de Hatians nombreux en Amérique. L’Amérique est un pays généreux, et a ouvert son sac à Haïti. Même si votre pays wreched était dans le besoin, l’Amérique serait là. Vous avez besoin d’arrêter de blâmer le pays qui a sauvé ton cul, si vous êtes même le français.
Si vous êtes vraiment malchanceux, nous vous enverrons Obama plus jamais ce Courir A paie vous vous trouvez, il suffit Donc c’est pas l’Amérique!
Carol, oolala je vais pleurer tellement vous êtes des gentils agneaux, et le reste du monde que des ingrats ou des méchants
uh, le Kool aid, il est additionné d’eau bénite, allez, vas en paix petite soeur des pauvres
ai-je dis que je voulais te connaître ? oh grand dieu, quel ennui !
Lili von chais pas quoi, I wasn’t too far, I thought you had a Kabaret Name
joo bashing, how ya goin straight into the godwin pithole, did I say a word about Joo ? but you did !
and the rest of your ranting isn’t worth of a damn
Marie Claude,
I think the word is whining.
Plus if you are in Europe it’s anywhere from 3 “am” to 6 “am”….that’s morning..in case you have not noticed….not PM as here. you have been on this board alllll day.
115 Marie Claude:
“le mieux c’est d’entendre ce que les Haitiens pensent, à ton avis ?”
Les Haitiens semble de penser qu’il sera de mieux que les U.S. occupe Haiti:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/31/AR2010013102725.html
“As food distribution improves, Haitians want U.S to ‘take over’
By Peter Slevin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, February 1, 2010
PORT-AU-PRINCE, HAITI — International relief organizations backed by American soldiers delivered hundreds of tons of rice to homeless residents of the Haitian capital Sunday, laboring to ease a food shortage that has left countless thousands struggling to find enough to eat.
But even as food-aid workers enjoyed their most successful day since the Jan. 12 earthquake, the increasingly prominent role of U.S. troops and civilians in the capital is creating high expectations that the Obama administration is struggling to contain.
The needs are extraordinary, and the common refrain is that the Americans will provide.
“I want the Americans to take over the country. The Haitian government can’t do anything for us,” said Jean-Louis Geffrard, a laborer who lives under a tarp in the crowded square. “When we tell the government we’re hungry, the government says, ‘We’re hungry, too.’ ”
Added Canga Matthieu, a medical student whose school was destroyed: “The American government should take care of us.”
“They’re well organized. The United States is the richest country in the world, and they can help.”
But help has its limits, U.S. officials emphasize in their public statements and in their interactions with Haitians. “You will have a friend and partner in the United States of America today and going forward,” President Obama said the day after the earthquake. But U.S. officials here make it clear that the American government is not responsible for rebuilding the ravaged country.
“The military forces . . . are not here to do any reconstruction. That is not our mission,” said Col. Rick Kaiser, a U.S. Army engineer overseeing emergency repairs to the Port-au-Prince docks, the electrical and water systems, and other battered infrastructure in the hemisphere’s poorest country.
Administration officials, including Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, describe virtually every activity here as “Haiti-led,” although the government is barely functioning and its record was checkered even before the earthquake killed more than 110,000 people and leveled an array of government ministries.
Louis Lucke, the senior U.S. Agency for International Development official in Haiti, stood in an American-run medical complex Saturday with President René Préval and told reporters that “the Haitians are leading the process in all the areas that are necessary” — including food distribution, despite strong evidence to the contrary.
U.S. officials are doing what they can to bolster the stature of Préval and Prime Minister Jean-Max Bellerive and to promote international assistance efforts for the more-daunting work that lies ahead. In the meantime, they are deploying personnel to support projects from food delivery to the erection of a temporary hospital near Port-au-Prince.
Sgt. 1st Class Jason Jacot, an Army engineer, drove to a critical power station in the Delmas neighborhood Sunday morning to assess repairs made by Haitian and Dominican workers.
Markestre Theolien, a supervisor with Haiti Electricity, the national utility, lamented the condition of the 27-year-old transformers and asked for new ones. Asked where the help should come from, he smiled and said, “U.S.A.”
“So they’re expecting us to take over?” Jacot asked a translator. “No, no, no. How can we assist without completely rebuilding? We’re not here to rebuild.”
The discussion went back and forth cordially. Jacot said he would be talking with the utility’s director to learn what was needed. Theolien defined his bottom line: “What we really want is the United States to rebuild it, to modernize.”
U.S. soldiers, whose numbers within Haiti have risen to 6,500, played a central role in Sunday’s food distributions, working alongside U.N. peacekeepers to prevent the pushing, shoving and occasional melees that have severely hampered deliveries. Where U.S. troops have been present in recent days, relief workers say, deliveries have gone smoothly.
By day’s end, the U.N. World Food Program calculated that roughly 400 metric tons of rice had been delivered to nine sites. Five more locations will be running early in the week, a spokesman said, but increased gang violence in the Cité Soleil slums made deliveries too risky.
The generally smooth deliveries on Sunday, based on a new system of ration cards, were met with pleasure at the Place du Canape Vert, an impromptu settlement where several hundred families received large sacks marked “Product of USA” or “USA Best Rice.” Yet some asked when there would be something more than rice, while others wanted to know why they were left out.
Deliveries will resume Monday as the World Food Program, bolstered by an $80 million U.S. contribution, seeks to reach 2 million people in the next two weeks. The agency hopes the system will lead to distribution of other badly needed food and relief supplies.
At the ramshackle encampment, some residents were boiling water for rice within an hour of the delivery. Some had beans or root vegetables to add, and a few had meat. Those who could afford neither complained that rice alone would not be enough.
“It’s there, but we can do nothing with it. We only got rice. No oil, nothing. And it’s not easy to find water,” said Flore Laurent, who is eight months pregnant. But she had nothing but praise for the role of the American soldiers. “I vote for the help of the U.S., 100 percent.”
A throng of people in the square discussed their lack of faith in Haitian authorities. One after another, they said their only hope is the United States.
“The Haitian government has been here for a while, and they give us nothing. The United States should take over the country,” said Andrelita Laguerre, shepherding four children and a grandchild at the camp. “Most of my friends expect the United States to take over. I wish!”
Voila! Les Haitiens semblent demander l’occupation de Haiti par les Etates Unies. Moron.
And please, Marie Claude, stop posting here. You are truly embarassing yourself. I cringe everytime I read a post of yours. The Huffington franchise is a much better place for you. Honestly. You can get more mileage out of your French there.
Marie Claude:
Pardon my French! I’m trying to refine it:
En lieu de ” Les Haitiens semble[ent] de penser qu’il sera de mieux que les U.S. occupe Haiti,” lissez: “Il paresse que les Haitiens pansent qu’il sera, etc, etc.”
Or, si vous ne compredez pas, Piss off and let the Yankees in.
Jim Baker, thank you
Morton, spare your battery, you’re repeating the same thing since I know you
BTW Patton was fluent in french language, he adored our poetry, and Napoleon, therefore he never said the stupid sentence of yours
Christina, so nice for you that the Haitians said that
but, not here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F5TwEK24sA
for your info, I’m not embarassed at all, I’m just having fun to pick some pearls here, and you’d better attend your charitative organisation instead of parading your good counsciousness
Christina, you’re a pearl
carol, yeah, I prefer to work when it’s calm around
You know what, Marie, I’m sick and tired of having my tax dollars pay for your defense. Canada and Great Britain are the only worthy allies among the original NATO. All of Europe west of Poland, save for Great Britain and the Vatican can fall to Shariah Law for all I care. Poland and Georgia are far more worthy allies than France will ever be, and it’s a travesty that our leaders have chosen you over them time and time again. You know what George Bush’s two biggest foreign policy mistakes were? 1. Planning to divide Israel- bad stuff always happens when people try to do that, and 2. Blinking when Putin threatened to use nuclear weapons if we defended Georgia with precision guided conventional weapons. I don’t think Putin would have actually started a nuclear war over South Ossetia, but if he would have, so be it. Better to go to nuclear war to protect a dear friend whose sons bled and died by our side than defending your sorry asses, who we couldn’t even count on to fight the Ruskies when the nukes start flying. By the way, at the time I was about five miles from the New Jersey capital, ten miles from NAS Willow Grove, and twenty miles from Philadelphia. I had a decent chance of surviving a nuclear war, but not without suffering from serious radiation sickness, and survival was far from certain.
Myth Buster, you know what, it’s a myth, we aren’t under your umbrella, and this, since 1967, go ahead for the others as much as you like, but I’m sorry to tell ya, you are BROKE, so the only thing you can support it’s winds
Yeah, sure, Marie Clod. You knew it was a fake name all along, which is why you brought up some bankers with a similar name in your pathetic attempt to explain away France’s inexcusable, extortionate behavior. Time to put down the absinthe. The green fairy is messing with your mind, or whatever’s left of it.
Another little helpful hint…Godwin’s Rule refers to bringing up Nazis, not calling a half-educated, uncultured troll on antisemitic slurs.
(As for the rest of the posters here, please cut Mlle. Clod some slack when it comes to the English language. She is far from the first French speaker who finds difficulty with our ways of expression. After all, her favorite American general, Patton, was quite moved by their dedication to a “burial site”, if you will, for Abandoned Rear. http://www.snopes.com/military/patton.asp For all we know, Mlle. Clod’s relatives still hold respectful vigils to this day at this special site.)
So in a thread about anti-American Euroscum scum we witness a pithed and raving frog spew non-stop vitriol and venom spanning over 18 hours, we watch her hijack the thread with perhaps 40 or more insane posts in a 130 post thread, (over 1/3 of the total posts), and we see how akin to a cracked sewage main her mind actually is… Thank you Marie Claude, twisted belle, French Freak, nematode, flagellum, for illustrating so vividly that gutter brain for all to see. It is sadly no exaggeration, and you are living proof. Decent Americans will be appalled to learn that this obscene French snipe is sadly not atypical for her nation.
Melle Lili von Prout
If you had the fairness to watch back where I brought my link, it was in a response to the people that remanently bring WWII on this board, I am amazed how you consider it’s an attack against the Jews and that you don’t want to acknoledge that “von” is a noble particule, how comes that “von Schroder” is a Joo name as so “von Prout” ? up to now they are Kraut names
Goodwin is originatly used for “Hitler” as a rhedibitory argument, but it is interesting that you’re using “Joo” the same way as people who use Hitler to exacerbate your trenched view.
I appreciate your hate at its just height (a guess), I’m just wondering why so many people love you so much in return to your good intentions, surprising these papers around the world are full of love !
and Patton supposed sentence is one of military jokes, anyway Patton te dit merde, ainsi que moi aussi
Saucisson are you jaelous ?
I love you my dear little brain chickpea
More interesting variations on the US-France-Haiti theme:
http://uspolitics.tribe.net/thread/c993f3c0-61bf-4fee-b75a-f6fc4e9054ab
“When Haiti’s slaves rebelled against their French oppressors and ran France’s troops off the island, the French encircled Haiti with their navy and demanded a massive sum as ‘restitution’. Haiti paid a huge amount of gold to the French to end the blockade.
“Aristide started to discuss French reparations for the gold in Dec. 2003. In an amazing coincidence, 3 months later US marines were rousting Aristide from his slumber as part of a US / French designed coup.
“France is known to be sitting on a large amount of gold. Shouldn’t France return the gold it stole, especially now as Haiti is in an impossibly desperate situation? Aristide had asked for $21 billion but gold was around $500 / oz then and its now around $1200. Also, as we all know dollars are useless digits on Ben Bernanke’s laptop, France should indeed RETURN THE GOLD, not pay useless fiat toilet paper. This could be used to recapitalize Haiti and invest in infrastructure as well as form the basis of a sound monetary system.”
And this from the same source:
“In July 1825, the king of France Charles X sent a fleet of fourteen vessels and thousands of troops to reconquer the island. To maintain independence, (Haiti’s) President Boyer agreed to a treaty by which France recognized the independence of the country in exchange for a payment of 150 million francs (the sum was reduced in 1838 to 90 million francs) – an indemnity for profits lost from the slave trade. French abolitionist Victor Schoelcher wrote, “Imposing an indemnity on the victorious slaves was equivalent to making them pay with money that which they had already paid with their blood.”"
Pretty isn’t it?
Thanks to Marie the Clod. You triggered a lot of information from others on just how vile France’s history in Haiti has been. And France still harbors Baby Doc, their kinda guy. Remember there were more French involved in rounding up Jews for the gas chambers than there were in the resistance. Such a proud history.
#92 Rosinante
as for America being better than anywhere else…you can think what you want obviously!
all your other points are all assumptions. criticism were not only for the airport, was for the general disorganization and the lack of international coordination of efforts. that’s why UN should be in charge of these things, to make sure that national contributions are properly organized.
Recostruction, relief, stabilization are difficult endeavours and should be dealt with by professionals. point is, US army are professional fighters. they do war, not nation building. post-Katrina problems should have shown that.
#33 Naif Mabat
EU just pledged 500 millions as a first step. long-term measures are being discussed. EU gendarmerie is on its way. Italy’s Cavour carrier just arrived in Haiti. however, there is a limit to what you can send when airports, ports and everythign is already utilized by 12000 us army.
I don’t discuss US good faith. What am saying is, this situation would have been dealt with more properly by professionals. US requested responsability and now must accept criticism if things don’t go the proper way.
now one question: why are all Americans on this website so touchy that can not accept any criticism, and at the same time calling their European friends morons, whiners and so on? little inferiority complex anyone? (not Rosinante, Nabat, and all those who can discuss without insulting).
Ah, Marie, our little bedbug, again with the insults. How very…..predictable. Taking a break from slamming the Americans by being nasty to the Germans. And after they planted all those tree lined streets in la belle France so that they could march in the shade, too. Ingrate.
Who’s next for our petite sophisticate? The British? The Spanish?
Yes, we’re broke. Thanks for noticing. (Hey, if you could front the Haitians some of that $17 bill you extorted to help out, they’d appreciate it immensely. Now would be a perfect time to pay it back.) We’re still in Haiti anyway, helping where we can, both our government and our people. We’re not doing it perfectly, either. We make mistakes, and will make more.
No doubt you will helpfully catalog every mistake from the safety of your chic apartment in the banlieue.
True, you will spend little, if any time cataloging your own country’s missteps. I think it is mainly because the majority of French acted true to form….getting their butts to the Port au Prince airport, ignoring the suffering people along the way, and demanding to be flown out immediately so they could finally get a decent baguette.
If people like that, like you, scorn us, well….we can live with it.
Now, Mlle. Clod, time for your shift on latrine guard duty…..
This is so absolutely disgusting.
There is an entire nation of people suffering through the most devastating event to have ever occured to the people of this island, and all you can think to do is to piss on the efforts to lend assistance.
Truly constructive, respectful and helpful. It is truly a heartfelt desire which only wishes to see the Haitian people recover from this catstrophic event, that is being shown here. A no truer outpouring of humanitarianism, has ever been shown. Please, keep up the good work. Your insults and criticism is truly helping the Haitian people.
@137. sdraio:
Touchy, Moi? Au contraire!
Insulting? Hardly. Perhaps it is you who is being touchy…
Thank you for clarifying your good faith in American motives. Now you seem to be making two assumptions that would appear to be patently silly. But perchance I misunderstood:
1) Are you really suggesting US should have withheld all (or most) aid efforts for 3 weeks or until such other time that the EU get off its posterior and send something over?
2) Are you suggesting that EU gendarmerie or UN are somehow more professional at nation-building or whatever other skills are required here? Where is any past evidence for this?
Incidentally, US military efforts post-Katrina were exemplary. The problems there were more to do with early efforts by local authorities and their delay in requesting military aid.
Anonymous, courageous I see
May I refresh your mémory ?
Jefferson’s Blemish
For some scholars, Jefferson’s vengeful policy toward Haiti – like his personal ownership of slaves – represented an ugly blemish on his legacy as a historic advocate of freedom.
Even in his final years, Jefferson remained obsessed with Haiti and its link to the issue of American slavery.
In the 1820s, the former President proposed a scheme for taking away the children born to black slaves in the United States and shipping them to Haiti. In that way, Jefferson posited that both slavery and America’s black population would be phased out. Eventually, Haiti would be all black and the United States white.
Jefferson’s deportation scheme never was taken very seriously and American slavery would continue for another four decades until it was ended by the Civil War. The official hostility of the United States toward Haiti extended almost as long, ending in 1862 when President Abraham Lincoln finally granted diplomatic recognition.
By then, however, Haiti’s destructive patterns of political violence and economic chaos had been long established – continuing up to the present time. Personal and political connections between Haiti’s light-skinned elite and power centers of Washington also have lasted through today.
Recent Republican administrations have been particularly hostile to the popular will of the impoverished Haitian masses. When leftist priest Jean-Bertrand Aristide was twice elected by overwhelming margins, he was ousted both times – first during the presidency of George H.W. Bush and again under President George W. Bush.
Washington’s conventional wisdom on Haiti holds that the country is a hopeless basket case that would best be governed by business-oriented technocrats who would take their marching orders from the United States.
However, the Haitian people have other ideas, much as they did two centuries ago. Their continued support for the twice-ousted Aristide reflects a recognition that the Big Powers often don’t have the interests of Third World countries at heart.
Also, unlike most Americans who have no idea about their historic debt to Haiti, many Haitians know this history quite well. The bitter memories of Jefferson and Napoleon still feed the distrust that Haitians of all classes feel toward the outside world.
“In Haiti, we became the first black independent country,” Aristide told me in an interview 15 years ago. “We understand, as we still understand, it wasn’t easy for them – American, French and others – to accept our independence.”
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Haiti/America_Debt_Haiti.html
sdraio — if your “criticism” weren’t based on the anti-American lies your execrable media spoon feed you, and which you mindlessly here parrot, perhaps there could be some sort of discussion. We’re dealing with reality here — the reality of a complete natural catastrophe — and European posturing for advantage is disgusting.
Here’s a FACT for you: You state “EU gendarmerie is on its way.” FEW! Your version of the cavalry, I presume? Perhaps you didn’t know this tidbit, but the “EU gendarmerie’ you grandiosely promise “is on its way!” was formed by the EU… (drum roll please…)
AS THEIR “RAPID REACTION FORCE”.
Nearly a F*&CK!*G month after the calamity Europe rides to the rescue (according to idiotic tools like yourself) to save the day. You are a continent of full of delusional talking bungholes.
Hey Gary (136) how right you are!!! M-C really opened a can or worms here. And it isn’t over yet!
It seems there’s a tossup between the earthquake and France’s greatest “hero” as to which was the greatest disaster to befall the Haitian nation:
“Haiti around 1800 was the world’s richest colony, a slave-powered export factory which produced almost two-thirds of the world’s coffee and almost half its sugar.
The black slaves were lashed and beaten to work and forced to wear tin muzzles to prevent them from eating the sugar cane.
If the slaves were fractious, they were roasted over slow fires, or filled with gunpowder and blown to pieces.
When the slaves began to fight for their freedom, under the leadership of a charismatic African military genius called Toussaint L’Ouverture, Napoleon sent 10,000 crack troops under the command of his brother-inlaw, General Leclerc, to crush Toussaint and restore slavery.
In 1802, a vast programme of ethnic cleansing was put in place. Napoleon banned inter-racial marriages and ordered that all white women who’d had any sort of relationship with a black or mulatto (person of mixed race) be shipped to France.
He further commanded the killing of as many blacks in Haiti as possible, to be replaced by new, more docile slaves from Africa.
The French troops were under orders to kill all blacks over the age of 12. However, younger children were also killed – stabbed to death, put in sandbags and dropped into the sea.
The Haitians fought to the death for independence, which they finally declared in 1804.
Prisoners on both sides were regularly tortured and killed, and their heads were mounted on the walls of stockades or on spikes beside the roads.
Non-combatants, too, were raped and slaughtered. According to contemporary accounts, the French used dogs to rip black prisoners to pieces before a crowd at an amphitheatre.
Allegdly on Napoleon’s orders, sulphur was extracted from Haitian volcanoes and burned to produce poisonous sulphur dioxide, which was then used to gas black Haitians in the holds of ships – more than 100,000 of them, according to records.
The use of these primitive gas chambers was confirmed by contemporaries. Antoine Metral, who in 1825 published his history of the French expedition to Haiti, writes of piles of dead bodies everywhere, stacked in charnel-houses.”
Etc. Etc.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1038453/The-French-Fuhrer-Genocidal-Napoleon-barbaric-Hitler-historian-claims.html#ixzz0eNVE9hbk
#135 El Valiente
more from your basket
http://www.haitisolidarity.net/downloads/Hidden_from_the-Headlines.pdf
# 143 El Valiente, your can is rotten
ah le voilà le Godwin argument pour de vrai, et d’une honnèteté intellectuelle defiant toute concurrence: the author need to take some Dachau pics for illustrating his lies
Sure the English must be proud to have hold American prisonners (and french BTW) in their hulks, not concentrations camps for sure, worst !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_ship
The English term “concentration camp” was first used to describe camps operated by the British in South Africa during this conflict.
The camps had originally been set up by the British Army as “refugee camps” to provide refuge for civilian families who had been forced to abandon their homes for one or other reason related to the war. However, when Kitchener succeeded Roberts as commander-in-chief in South Africa in 29 November 1900, the British Army introduced new tactics in an attempt to break the guerrilla campaign and the influx of civilians grew dramatically as a result. Kitchener initiated plans to
“flush out guerrillas in a series of systematic drives, organized like a sporting shoot, with success defined in a weekly ‘bag’ of killed, captured and wounded, and to sweep the country bare of everything that could give sustenance to the guerrillas, including women and children…. It was the clearance of civilians—uprooting a whole nation—that would come to dominate the last phase of the war.”
cherches Boers wars
140 Mabat
if you re-read my post you’ll see I was not talking about you. by the way I am italian not french!
very good if the US intervene quickly, especially because it’s their own backyard so they are in the best position to do so.
however, still think that an international agency is a better international coordinator than an individual country, and that specialized civlian relief worker do a better relief work than specialized war fighter. with all due respect for US army, this is not their job!
thank you for clarifiyng about Katrina, didn’t know.
142 morton
of course you understand rapid reaction is required only if there are not thousands of operators already on the ground. you seem very angry. why is that? is your life not successful? you have an inferiority complex? don’t be aggressive, is bad for your health.
Damn, Marie Clod sure didn’t waste time slamming the Brits, now, did she?
Like I said, predictable….and rather sad, too. Adieu, cherie, it’s gotten tedious.
————————-
sdraio, it’s not that we can’t tolerate criticism. It’s just annoying to hear from people who demand perfection in the response to a critical situation, and who are taking their sweet time to get there and help.
We do appreciate the Cavour’s arrival. We do appreciate the gendarmerie. We just would have liked to see something coming a hell of a lot faster when people are dying (other than the usual demands to run the show from the safety and comfort of UN offices), and we would appreciate it if you didn’t complain that our ships are hogging the port.
If there would have been a dozen EU planes backed up on the tarmac in the DR loaded with supplies and personnel within 72 hours, unable to go to Port au Prince because we were dragging ass getting them landing clearances, that would have been one thing….but that didn’t happen, and honestly, never would have happened.
Instead, we got reports of the French citizens demanding to leave immediately, and another report on CNN where a Belgian medical team abandoned a field hospital loaded with severely injured patients because it was unsafe (funny how the CNN correspondent, Dr Sanjay Gupta, didn’t cut and run. With the help of a Haitian nurse and his camera crew, they kept the place running with few medical supplies until the Belgians were shamed into returning.)
We’re not overly sensitive to criticism. We’re just not too impressed at the moment. Possibly next time there is a terrible natural disaster, the EU might have a real rapid response team worthy of the name. If that blessed day ever arrives, we will be more than happy to turn over control to you. But until then, sorry….we are going in ASAP, we are gonna do what we can, and we won’t wait for the EU to get their crap together for a month first.
Lili von pute, your hormonal ranting is boring
# 143 El Valiente
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/claude+ribbe
The video 3/5, where the author, an Antillais, talks of his book, which isn’t a historical work, but a polemic, and true historians are condamning his manipulation of the facts àla sauce vaudou, if you’re interested (?) there are several videos in the serie, among them one where Max Gallo read a text of Camus (4/5)
and the article that was edited in “Le Monde”
http://www.napoleon.org/fr/salle_lecture/articles/files/critiqueribbe_branda_decembre2005.asp
so the english article is mere BS
ACTUALLY..
.our dear little
“marie Claude”
lives in Jersey, flushing to be percise..sorry to reveal your little secret. She runs her tanslations through “google translate”…
funnyfunnyfunny…
that’s why she likes to be on these posts when its quiet. She’s on the same time schedule as we all are..the closest she is to Europe is a map on her wall. hahahahahahaha
Dont’ let her get to you folks. She copies and pasts from Time etc what a hoot!!!
Please, folks, stop answering this poster, Marie Claude. Don’t demean yourselves. There’s something truly vile about her/him.
If it is boring, Mlle. Clod, then stop reading it. No one’s forcing you to read it.
Tu es stupide, et tu as le cervau d’un sandwich au fromage. Adieu, hyene putride!
@146. sdraio:
Ti prego perdonami.
I agree completely that it would be much better for this to be handled by some kind of special international agency that can professionally and expertly coordinate large relief efforts. Unfortunately, there is no such agency, nor has there ever been one, nor is there ever likely to be one. Of the UN, the less said the better.
And I agree completely that the US military is not intended for this kind of work, nor are they ideally suited for it. However, they do have some relevant experience. But more importantly, they were there at the right place at the right time, which is more than can be said for anyone else.
You go into disaster relief with the organizations you have, not the ones you wished existed. The criticisms seen in above links may correctly pinpoint some oversights in the American relief effort. Big deal. What’s so galling is the implication that there was some imaginary international agency that was going to do a better job.
I’m glad to hear about any help Europe or anyone else is able to send. But the torrent of criticism precisely during the rather long and critical period when no one else was doing anything suggests a rage that arises from moral impotence. Europeans seem to like to pretend that there exists some magical international agency, but during those precious few weeks, it was painfully obvious to everyone that there is none. Hence the rage.
Yeah, Cristina, you are right. Especially if Wodah is correct. (Joisey? I wasted my favorite French insult on a JOISEY girl????)
America was were it was needed, and still is there. Europe appears to be impotent at best.
It seams that you always find an excuse. Europe, that is. Too far from us, we would have done better, they have no organization or something like that. You expect us to listen and accept your “constructive” criticism, but you do not do anything. You only whining about those bad Americans. Doctors without borders! What a horses….t. How did the Belgian team of “Doctors” left field hospital and patients, because it was not safe.HELLO!!!! It a disaster! That is what they were there for! Israeli doctors where in place and running field hospital 16 hours after arrival. The next day, and they did not leave until American Comfort arrived. American doctors were there pulling people from rubble and saving lives, and how many Europien doctors were there???
No one says that we are perfect and we do a perfect job. But we did best we could and A hell of a lot better then you did. By the way, what did you “DID”???
marrant toutes ces femelles tout d’un coup, ça sent le sang comme les mouches à merde
uh, that’s why your darlin is watchin porn , poor darlin, I understand him
Joisey?
Isn’t Flushing in Queens, NY?
I would have liked to have examined the model that the USA should have followed. I assume that this model was executed under the same circumstances and that this(these) previous success(s), involving the rescue of several million people,has been kept a secret on account of modesty ?
Listen, folks, the sanctimonious Euroweenies are rarely worth this sort of effort. Do yourselves a favour and allow them to talk amongst themselves.
Europeans have a difficult time getting their hands on cash because its all sucked into their vast bloated bureaucracy of taxes.Upwards of 60% taxes they pay in some countries.No wonder they had trouble finding aid to send to Haiti.All those social programs need to be paid for though.LOL!Meanwhile America leads the way.Again.With stalwart allies like Canada and the Israelis.Again.
Europeans are broke.They pay upwards of 60% taxes in some countries.All those social programs need to be paid for.NO wonder they have trouble sending aid.Meanwhile America leads the way.Again.Along with stalwart allies like Canada and the Israelis.Again.
America=military and medical strength
Canada=military and medical strength
Israel=medical strength(their lack of a significant military component is forgiven ,given their circumstances).
Just saying….
Yeah, Flushing is in Queens, that’s why M.C., is so screwed up, she doesn’t know where she’s from…hahahahahahaha
Maybe she’s “flushing the toilets in Joisey”. She’s a fake and a real trouble maker. Hates America where she/he lives. Gotta love Bable Fish.
YES!!!!, MARIE CLAUDE…we do “smell” you, like flies to $#!+…
ouiouiouiflush
The italian minister said the US effort had too many soldiers, that military effort was “inefficient” and that our soldiers were not “trained to run an aid or disaster relief operation”. Worse, he said, “No-one is giving orders.”
If we hadn’t sent the soldiers, we’d have “abetted the violence”–not to mention the theft of useless artifacts from some museum, as in Iraq.
If we were giving “orders” we’d be accused of being dictatorial and worse–unilateral!
And no our soldiers, while good guys, are not primarily trained for disaster relief–although with the Tsunami and Haiti, they’ve probably got more training than many others.
There are doers and whiners.
Consider this a field exercise for our troops.
Europe is fed a steady diet of hate for America. Where’s their help for Haiti ?
Hey guys, all is not lost! France seems to have developed “une petite conscience”!
France’s Economy Minister Christine Lagarde says she has contacted other members of the Paris Club to accelerate the cancellation of Haiti’s debt of nearly $78 million. Haiti did owe $84 million. But Lagarde says about $6 million has been canceled since Tuesday’s devastating earthquake. France chairs the Paris Club, which in July agreed to cancel most of the debt owed by Haiti, the Western Hemisphere’s poorest country. In addition to France, the Paris Club includes the United States, Britain, Japan, Russia, Germany and 13 other countries. On Thursday, French President Nicholas Sarkozy called for an international conference on rebuilding Haiti, a former French colony. France has sent planeloads of emergency aid and rescue teams to Haiti. Mr. Sarkozy said he plans to visit Haiti in the coming weeks. France also Thursday said it is suspending deportations of illegal Haitian immigrants, and will temporarily open its borders to earthquake victims who need help. – http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/europe/France-Calls-for-Cancellation-of-Haitis-Debt-81710787.html
Great! $78 million plus $100 million from the US. Now what about the other $20,723,000,000? I guess that will have to wait till the next earthquake!
not worthy to discuss with obvious blind and partisan persons, but the thread itself was ment to appeal such silly polemics
le courageux qui n’a pas les couilles d’afficher son nom
don’t be so mean, EU has given 400 millions euros, France by herself 20 millions, plus the privates donations which were 15 million for the first week ! not counting how much the other EU stages gas as individual entities and what their inhabitants gave too
stop your silly comparaisons
America does what she can, like the other countries, but grabbing the cover of the “goods” only to inflate your ego, doesn’t help you in the long term, cuz you’ll be mostly mocked at
stages gas –> states as individuals, c’est la fautes des mouches à m.
c’est la fautes des mouches à m = Marie Claude …alllllllllllll day loooooooong. And I think you didn’t get the whole translation when you copied, but I think you ment it in reference to the flies to $#!+ comment you made..and yes, flies do seem to attracted to you in particular it seems.
..
Marie you make Stupid comments.. It also appears to be your style, as usual from what seems to be the resident fake, and America hater on these posts.
It’s ok guys. We liberated them from well… themselves… spent billions on helping them to rebuild, “occupied” them like we’re now doing in Haiti, risked nuclear annihilation for 40 years to keep them safe and have picked up their security bills for well over 6 decades and counting. But in return we’ve received SO much like… mmm… well… this one time they uh… hmmmm…. riiiight… Anywho!
Time to kick our spoiled, back stabbing, ingrate allies to the curb. How the hell wants to carry someone who spits on you constantly? The Euro-peons have burned their bridges with America long ago as far as I’m concerned. They could get anal raped by Putin and their growing radicalized “asian youth” populations for all I care.
Abi, a fly new nic, suppose you’ve got a lot to sniff in your own pots
Marsh mallows, olright !
Original quote:
“Dei due ex Presidenti, forse Bush è quello che porta sulle spalle la responsabilità minore – se minore è il peccato dell’oblio.”
Your quote:
“Bush is perhaps the one who bears responsibility for the child — if the child is the sin of forgetting”
MINORE = lesser
Maybe it should read “Bush is perhaps the one who bears the lesser responsibility — if the sin of forgetting is a minor one”…
I’m agree with the previous comment (168. Marie Claude). N you r also right in some way meaningly.
Anyway i wanna say something about a personality
Charles Henri Baker (born June 3, 1955) is a Haitian industrialist and former Haitian Presidential Candidate. Baker was a candidate for president in Haiti’s 2006 election. He initially billed himself as an independent and allied himself with the Komba de Chavannes Jean Baptiste and Evans Lescouflair party.
I support him whole heartily .
Thanks
The military is the most efficient way to get aid to those who need it. There is only one country’s opinion we should care about in this situation. Thats Haiti. They didnt seem to be complaining. As former military, I can say there are many Haitian-Americans in the military.
Wow, fantastic blog structure! How lengthy have you been running a blog for? you made blogging look easy. The full look of your website is great, let alone the content material!
Thanks for any other informative site. Where else may I am getting that kind of info written in such an ideal manner? I have a challenge that I’m simply now operating on, and I have been at the glance out for such info.
Can you type long blog posts on the PS3 web browser?
Hey There. I discovered your weblog the use of msn. This is an extremely smartly written article. I will make sure to bookmark it and return to read more of your useful information. Thanks for the post. I will certainly return.