Comments on: Europe in Denial: Lessons Learned in Spain http://pjmedia.com/blog/europe_in_denial_lessons_from/ Wed, 15 Feb 2012 18:08:27 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: BW http://pjmedia.com/blog/europe_in_denial_lessons_from/#comment-10313 BW Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:35:50 +0000 http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/europe-in-denial-lessons-learned-in-spain/#comment-10313 Meg: I wouldn't place all my hopes in Sarko & co, especially if the new right-wing administration (just like the Old right wing administration) is appointing truther cabinet members: <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070707/ts_nm/france_sept11_dc" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070707/ts_nm/france_sept11_dc</a> Granted, she's not involved in foreign policy (as the article states). However, who do you think the major clients for the services provided by her ministry are? Nice way to play politics. Meg: I wouldn’t place all my hopes in Sarko & co, especially if the new right-wing administration (just like the Old right wing administration) is appointing truther cabinet members:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070707/ts_nm/france_sept11_dc

Granted, she’s not involved in foreign policy (as the article states). However, who do you think the major clients for the services provided by her ministry are? Nice way to play politics.

]]> By: anonymous http://pjmedia.com/blog/europe_in_denial_lessons_from/#comment-10312 anonymous Mon, 09 Jul 2007 06:57:17 +0000 http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/europe-in-denial-lessons-learned-in-spain/#comment-10312 Vorzheva: People thought Spaniards were appeasers even during Aznar. It's not like they ever wholeheartedly supported Aznar's foreign policy. They thought he was crazy to go into Iraq (over 90 percent) and his pro-democracy anti-Islamist rhetoric was looked upon as loony. And sure 50 percent of Americans probably sound a lot like the Spaniards in this piece. But half of Americans sound like Aznar, too. How many Spaniards sound like Aznar when he talks about the threat facing the West today? Not many, I can assure you. Vorzheva:

People thought Spaniards were appeasers even during Aznar. It’s not like they ever wholeheartedly supported Aznar’s foreign policy. They thought he was crazy to go into Iraq (over 90 percent) and his pro-democracy anti-Islamist rhetoric was looked upon as loony.

And sure 50 percent of Americans probably sound a lot like the Spaniards in this piece. But half of Americans sound like Aznar, too. How many Spaniards sound like Aznar when he talks about the threat facing the West today? Not many, I can assure you.

]]> By: Tim http://pjmedia.com/blog/europe_in_denial_lessons_from/#comment-10311 Tim Mon, 09 Jul 2007 03:45:11 +0000 http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/europe-in-denial-lessons-learned-in-spain/#comment-10311 <i>"However, they both still clung to the idea that Spain would be safer if it continued to keep its distance from the United States.""However, they both still clung to the idea that Spain would be safer if it continued to keep its distance from the United States."</i? I won't need reminding for the U.S. to keep its distance from Spain when the calls come for rescuing from their inevitable collapse. They've earned the right to take care of matters on their own, without any help from us, thank you very much.</i> “However, they both still clung to the idea that Spain would be safer if it continued to keep its distance from the United States.”"However, they both still clung to the idea that Spain would be safer if it continued to keep its distance from the United States.”</i?

I won’t need reminding for the U.S. to keep its distance from Spain when the calls come for rescuing from their inevitable collapse. They’ve earned the right to take care of matters on their own, without any help from us, thank you very much.

]]> By: Meg http://pjmedia.com/blog/europe_in_denial_lessons_from/#comment-10310 Meg Mon, 09 Jul 2007 03:31:39 +0000 http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/europe-in-denial-lessons-learned-in-spain/#comment-10310 With the election of Sarko in France, and right-leaning governments in Mexico, Canada, Germany, and Japan, there is hope, even for Spain. It's not too late. Yet. With the election of Sarko in France, and right-leaning governments in Mexico, Canada, Germany, and Japan, there is hope, even for Spain.

It’s not too late. Yet.

]]> By: DC http://pjmedia.com/blog/europe_in_denial_lessons_from/#comment-10309 DC Mon, 09 Jul 2007 02:12:26 +0000 http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/europe-in-denial-lessons-learned-in-spain/#comment-10309 Carl, You have a good point about the birthrates- the Spanish birthrate is about 1.3. However, the Latin American immigrant community is larger than the Muslim community and grows just as fast. Then there's the Eastern Europeans. Plus, the recent crackdown on the Mediterranean with FRONTEX (the European border patrol agency) is decreasing the number of illegal immigrants from North Africa. Most Latin Americans, on the other hand, simply fly to Spain as "tourists" and overstay their visas. Carl,

You have a good point about the birthrates- the Spanish birthrate is about 1.3. However, the Latin American immigrant community is larger than the Muslim community and grows just as fast. Then there’s the Eastern Europeans. Plus, the recent crackdown on the Mediterranean with FRONTEX (the European border patrol agency) is decreasing the number of illegal immigrants from North Africa. Most Latin Americans, on the other hand, simply fly to Spain as “tourists” and overstay their visas.

]]> By: Carl Spackler http://pjmedia.com/blog/europe_in_denial_lessons_from/#comment-10308 Carl Spackler Mon, 09 Jul 2007 01:38:46 +0000 http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/europe-in-denial-lessons-learned-in-spain/#comment-10308 DC, And what are the birth rates? A bunch of elderly, leftist, whimp europeans vs. younger, motivated Islamist. I'll bet on the latter. The future belongs to the young. Death and time can give Spain to Islam. DC,

And what are the birth rates? A bunch of elderly, leftist, whimp europeans vs. younger, motivated Islamist. I’ll bet on the latter.

The future belongs to the young. Death and time can give Spain to Islam.

]]> By: Philip http://pjmedia.com/blog/europe_in_denial_lessons_from/#comment-10307 Philip Mon, 09 Jul 2007 00:53:18 +0000 http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/europe-in-denial-lessons-learned-in-spain/#comment-10307 Europe is a continent. Only a quite ignorant person would extend attitudes in one culture/country to mean those of all 500,000,000 people on the continent. Talk about the people you met or, at most, the people in Spain. But don't act like all "Europeans" are the same becuase you can't take the time to read a few books and dintinguish differences. Europe is a continent. Only a quite ignorant person would extend attitudes in one culture/country to mean those of all 500,000,000 people on the continent. Talk about the people you met or, at most, the people in Spain. But don’t act like all “Europeans” are the same becuase you can’t take the time to read a few books and dintinguish differences.

]]> By: Dick Eagleson http://pjmedia.com/blog/europe_in_denial_lessons_from/#comment-10306 Dick Eagleson Sun, 08 Jul 2007 23:58:27 +0000 http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/europe-in-denial-lessons-learned-in-spain/#comment-10306 The problem is that European blood has run, I fear, irretrievably thin. Most of the courageous Europeans were killed over the preceding century in WW1, the Spanish Civil War and WW2. Those left to reproduce - which they increasingly decline to do at all - have been mainly the cowards and collaborators. The predictable result is that Europe now consists overwhelmingly of the pusillanimous and the parasitical. We in America are the descendants of the best of the old Europeans plus the best from many other places. The quivering sheep who have inherited the old continent have diverged so far from their respective heritages as to constitute an effectively different species - and one with an unimpressive life expectancy if current trends, both social and demographic, continue. The problem is that European blood has run, I fear, irretrievably thin. Most of the courageous Europeans were killed over the preceding century in WW1, the Spanish Civil War and WW2. Those left to reproduce – which they increasingly decline to do at all – have been mainly the cowards and collaborators. The predictable result is that Europe now consists overwhelmingly of the pusillanimous and the parasitical.

We in America are the descendants of the best of the old Europeans plus the best from many other places. The quivering sheep who have inherited the old continent have diverged so far from their respective heritages as to constitute an effectively different species – and one with an unimpressive life expectancy if current trends, both social and demographic, continue.

]]> By: Vorzheva http://pjmedia.com/blog/europe_in_denial_lessons_from/#comment-10305 Vorzheva Sun, 08 Jul 2007 23:52:40 +0000 http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/europe-in-denial-lessons-learned-in-spain/#comment-10305 Firstly, thank for linking my post about the ambush that killed Spanish soldiers in Lebanon. Secondly, I have to make three points about this subject, that I think are necessary, specially because I am Spanish. 1) I'm always astonished about how foreign people tend to generalize. When Aznar was in power, it sounded as if every Spanish national was a resurrected Pelayo. Nowadays, it looks like we are all a bunch of idiotic-stupid-appeasers. Oh, come on! Spanish society is VERY divided, especialy after three years of Zapatero.Foreign and interior policy is a mess -I am not going to give examples I could say now that, as Pelosi has been elected, every US National is an idiot appeaser who wants to chat with Ahmadinejad. Something that I know it's not true. 2) MSM campaign, which was extremely hard the two last years of Aznar's Government -foreign people normally do not know about the programs on TV against Aznar and the beating, the insults, etc, on Aznar's MPs...-, has meant other thing: the real cause of terrorism was hidden from the public. When the people begin to suspect they have been cheated and that their own life depends on that lie, they can get extremely angry. Three years ago every friend I have, looked at me as I was a fool when I spoke about Islamic supremacism. Nowadays, I seem the most moderate. I can think of two causes of this evolution: a) the terrorist attacks we have had and the several terrorist cells the police has detained, after the Iraqi withdrawal. So it was not Iraqi war the cause of the attacks before it -I never believed it, by the way-. b) the own policy of the Government, specially the "Alliance of Civilizations". In three years, a lot of people -certainly not all, but that's not a characteristic of Spain, but of all Western countries- have realised about the danger this threat poses. So, don't be hasty! 3) We have politicians which are a shame in both sides, although the left is -generally- specially shameful. I don't know if any of you have seen the Autonomous community Public TV of Andalucía. As dependant of a Socialist Government, the contents are very easy to summarise: basically, it looks like Castillians, in the Reconquest, obliged Andalucian inhabitants to cope with a religion -Catholicism- totally strange and foreign to those lands -without considering history at all-, stating that Islam is marvellous, and that Andalucia has not developed because of that imposing of Catholicism and of a foreign King. And that, one day and the next. Of course, the first day they did not tell something like that, they have been subtle enough to introduce the subject. What happens? That in most major cities, the Socialists do not win, but they win in rural areas, where Islam is not even considered, but other things, such as social subsidies or local benefits. Till they are menaced. Some years ago, in El Ejido, an Andalusian village, a Moroccan immigrant, one between the thousands who work there in plantations, nearly raped a handicapped girl. The village raised up in arms and nothing happened again. But once again MSM crucified the villagers, calling them names not very agreeable. Now I tell you, how many people knew of that? I'm sure that very few. And does this happen only with Islamic thugs? No, it also happens with other immigrant thugs, like gangs such as Ñetas or Kings -any people of South American inheritage would know what I am talking about-. Catalan Autonomous Community has declared Ñetas a "cultural association", even when some of their affiliates have been condemned on rape, murder and robbery charges, as a way to enter the association. Catalan Government is also favoring Islamic immigration because they are going to learn Catalan, as they do not speak Spanish, in an effort to raise the importance of Catalan in the world. Policial statistics show that Cataluña is the Autonomous Community where there is a higher incidence of Islamic radicals in the whole Spain -much more than in Andalucía-. Oh, and do not protest, because any MSM -with very few exceptions- are going to call you xenophobic. The blogosphere has emerged as the most important way to protest against this problem. That's why Zapatero's Government has even tried to forbid blogging to all who did not have a journalist pass -my case-. Pass which would be revoked after an adminsitrative decision. Successfully, that legislation finally wasn't passed. One last thing: when Napoleon wanted to conquer Spain, l'abbée Talleyrand told him: "Do not awake her asleep ladyship". We are peaceful people, till we're provoked. Don't you see that gang rapes or honor-killings, for example, are practically non-existent in Spain, while very common in northern Europe? And do you know also that those crimes have no reflection on Spanish MSM? Manuel Delgado: that is why the present number of readers of ABC has diminished to less than half the newspaper had three years ago... [Sorry for the long comment] Firstly, thank for linking my post about the ambush that killed Spanish soldiers in Lebanon.
Secondly, I have to make three points about this subject, that I think are necessary, specially because I am Spanish.
1) I’m always astonished about how foreign people tend to generalize. When Aznar was in power, it sounded as if every Spanish national was a resurrected Pelayo. Nowadays, it looks like we are all a bunch of idiotic-stupid-appeasers. Oh, come on! Spanish society is VERY divided, especialy after three years of Zapatero.Foreign and interior policy is a mess -I am not going to give examples
I could say now that, as Pelosi has been elected, every US National is an idiot appeaser who wants to chat with Ahmadinejad. Something that I know it’s not true.
2) MSM campaign, which was extremely hard the two last years of Aznar’s Government -foreign people normally do not know about the programs on TV against Aznar and the beating, the insults, etc, on Aznar’s MPs…-, has meant other thing: the real cause of terrorism was hidden from the public. When the people begin to suspect they have been cheated and that their own life depends on that lie, they can get extremely angry.
Three years ago every friend I have, looked at me as I was a fool when I spoke about Islamic supremacism. Nowadays, I seem the most moderate. I can think of two causes of this evolution:
a) the terrorist attacks we have had and the several terrorist cells the police has detained, after the Iraqi withdrawal. So it was not Iraqi war the cause of the attacks before it -I never believed it, by the way-.
b) the own policy of the Government, specially the “Alliance of Civilizations”.
In three years, a lot of people -certainly not all, but that’s not a characteristic of Spain, but of all Western countries- have realised about the danger this threat poses. So, don’t be hasty!
3) We have politicians which are a shame in both sides, although the left is -generally- specially shameful. I don’t know if any of you have seen the Autonomous community Public TV of Andaluc√≠a. As dependant of a Socialist Government, the contents are very easy to summarise: basically, it looks like Castillians, in the Reconquest, obliged Andalucian inhabitants to cope with a religion -Catholicism- totally strange and foreign to those lands -without considering history at all-, stating that Islam is marvellous, and that Andalucia has not developed because of that imposing of Catholicism and of a foreign King. And that, one day and the next. Of course, the first day they did not tell something like that, they have been subtle enough to introduce the subject.
What happens? That in most major cities, the Socialists do not win, but they win in rural areas, where Islam is not even considered, but other things, such as social subsidies or local benefits.
Till they are menaced. Some years ago, in El Ejido, an Andalusian village, a Moroccan immigrant, one between the thousands who work there in plantations, nearly raped a handicapped girl. The village raised up in arms and nothing happened again. But once again MSM crucified the villagers, calling them names not very agreeable. Now I tell you, how many people knew of that? I’m sure that very few.
And does this happen only with Islamic thugs? No, it also happens with other immigrant thugs, like gangs such as √ëetas or Kings -any people of South American inheritage would know what I am talking about-. Catalan Autonomous Community has declared √ëetas a “cultural association”, even when some of their affiliates have been condemned on rape, murder and robbery charges, as a way to enter the association. Catalan Government is also favoring Islamic immigration because they are going to learn Catalan, as they do not speak Spanish, in an effort to raise the importance of Catalan in the world. Policial statistics show that Catalu√±a is the Autonomous Community where there is a higher incidence of Islamic radicals in the whole Spain -much more than in Andaluc√≠a-.
Oh, and do not protest, because any MSM -with very few exceptions- are going to call you xenophobic. The blogosphere has emerged as the most important way to protest against this problem. That’s why Zapatero’s Government has even tried to forbid blogging to all who did not have a journalist pass -my case-. Pass which would be revoked after an adminsitrative decision. Successfully, that legislation finally wasn’t passed.
One last thing: when Napoleon wanted to conquer Spain, l’abb√©e Talleyrand told him: “Do not awake her asleep ladyship”. We are peaceful people, till we’re provoked. Don’t you see that gang rapes or honor-killings, for example, are practically non-existent in Spain, while very common in northern Europe? And do you know also that those crimes have no reflection on Spanish MSM?
Manuel Delgado: that is why the present number of readers of ABC has diminished to less than half the newspaper had three years ago…
[Sorry for the long comment]

]]> By: mikek http://pjmedia.com/blog/europe_in_denial_lessons_from/#comment-10304 mikek Sun, 08 Jul 2007 23:26:34 +0000 http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/europe-in-denial-lessons-learned-in-spain/#comment-10304 I think the reaction in the states to the crazy muslim problem in Europe is way overblown, but Europeans need to stop tolerating the intolerant. Demand reciprocity from the muslims or tell them to leave. If you need immigrants to keep your system going invite people to your country who don't hate your way of life and believe that you are inferior. I think the reaction in the states to the crazy muslim problem in Europe is way overblown, but Europeans need to stop tolerating the intolerant. Demand reciprocity from the muslims or tell them to leave.

If you need immigrants to keep your system going invite people to your country who don’t hate your way of life and believe that you are inferior.

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