‘Economic Stimulus’ Is Essentially a Fraud
In fourteenth-century Italy, alchemists came to be known as frauds because they deceived others into believing that they could create wealth in the form of gold from nothing, that is, base metals. In The Divine Comedy, Dante meted out especially excruciating punishment to these miscreants in hell. Capocchio, one such alchemist whom Dante consigned to hell, observed that he (Capocchio) had in life been “a good ape of nature.” In other words, he was damned for creating and representing fakes as real.
In twenty-first-century America, to be sure, we are far too sophisticated to be taken in by such hokum. However, as Kipling so incisively observed many years ago:
As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool’s bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire.
So it is that not only did many Americans up until recently believe that housing prices would ever increase, they — or at least a large number of sophisticated investors — also believed that Bernie Madoff had solved the challenge of how to produce consistently above-average investment results with minimum risk. Such was their trust, they invested their hard-earned wealth in such nostrums.
We now find ourselves informed by “leading” economists and politicians that the solution to our current economic malaise is for government to embark on a gigantic spending spree. This spending, we are assured by one of the leading securities rating organizations, Moody’s Economy — whose recent history of ratings brings into question its judgment for quality analysis — that these expenditures will generate “multiples” of growth in GDP in magnitudes exceeding 1.5 times the amount spent. These estimates are supported by complex macroeconomic models which are incomprehensible to all but the most elite cognoscenti. In other words, the “experts” say the answer to economic stability and wealth creation is for our government to spend borrowed funds, to be repaid from our future wealth. Thus, miraculously, we are led to believe, our wealth will multiply and economic growth will be miraculously restored.
On the one hand, then, we are informed that we are in our financial straits as a result of a “bubble” caused by excessive spending which caused housing prices to grow beyond any sustainable level. On the other hand, we are advised that the way to solve this economic problem is to indulge in a massive spending program.
Stupid article. It completely misses the point that the stimulus was never about stimulus. It is merely a payoff to constituency groups. It’s about implementing the long-desired, liberal agenda. It’s about Socialism. It’s about power.
Mr. DeRussy begins with one of the most erudite and enjoyable articles I’ve ever read on PJM, but unfortunately ends with the most impotent, stale conservative argument for capitalism – that it works better:
“Let us put aside why politicians and various intellectuals prefer to have government allocate these resources and otherwise try to direct our lives in intrusive ways.”
Putting aside that “why” is the very reason conservatism has been impotent for generations! You’re conceding the liberal’s premise that the standard for good government should be “what works.”
The essential issue is not what works, it is what is right. The issue is not the pragmatic, it is the moral. Do you have the inalienable right to every minute of your life and every ounce of profit you honestly create – or not? Are you born free or are you to be sacrificed for “the common good” as dictated by God, society, or Fuhrer? Are you your brother’s keeper, or are you a sovereign individual co-existing with others as voluntary traders?
The standard for morally judging a political system is the degree of freedom from force and fraud which that system enables. Capitalism is the only moral system because it is the system where government’s sole function is to protect individual rights – where there is complete separation of government and the economy.
Of course, only capitalism will “work.” But that is the frosting, not the cake.
Economic “stimulus” is not “essentially a fraud.” It is armed robbery.
Government spending “stimulus” has never worked, anywhere, ever.
Well, duh. Yes, of course it is.
The stimulus is like the treasure found in a mummy’s tomb. It excites at first, but then everyone who touches it starts dying.
Pat, the economic stimulus is more than just robbery. It fundamentally undermines not only the greenback, but our very national security.
With 8 trillion in foreign governments’ hands, and another 45(?) trillion in unfunded entitlement commitments, our economy is poised for a total collapse.
We’re relying solely on the faith foreign governments have in the dollar. And that faith is based uppon nothing more than precedent. If they ever decide the euro is a better bet as a reserve currency, our entire house of cards is going to come down.
And if that possibility isn’t insane enough, our president is asking us to print yet another trillion dollars of worthless paper.
This is change I can’t believe.
#2 Pat:
Nice Randian analysis!
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
1. That the Dog returns to his Vomit
2. and the Sow returns to her Mire,
3. And the burnt Fool’s bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire.
FYI:
4. The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!
Stimulus spending for the most part is putting
money into something there is no real demand
for. Liberals like it because it puts more
of the economy under government control.
If conservatives don’t follow suit they are
branded as heartless and can’t win elections.
How did Rahm Emanuel put it, “Never waste a crisis.” This plan is the liberal wish list of the last 20 years. They should require the Dems to vote on each spending proposal individually. How many would vote yes for a $900,000 frisby golf course if it wasn’t buried in a $9B spending bill. It is a crime to say we are in crisis and then waste money like this.
The bill is outrageous. The Democrats trying to sell it as economic stimulus is completely dishonest and deceitful.
National Review has copiled an excellent list of 50 outrages contained within this bill:
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjcyODIyZGM2MGU1ZDdkNDgxZDc3OTNjYjM4ZDY1ODI=
Despite what the pundits, political flacks and Paul Krugman say Government spending cannot stimulate the economy unless it prints money (short term gain, long term pain) or attracts lenders from outside the country.
In 1974 Robert Barro wrote a seminal article on the Government Budget Constraint. Government spending must equal the sum of taxes, borrowing and if these fall short monetary creation. The first two sources taxes and borrowing have not effect because the government subtracts a dollar of spending from the private sector and spends it on something else. You can get a stimulus from borrowing if foreign investors supply the funds but there are limits to this. You can print money to buy the bonds but if this causes the money supply to increase faster then the rate of growth then you get inflation as well.
This stimulus bill will only increase the supply of debt and raise interest rates. We already are already seeing the effect now as mortgage rates begin to climb again.
Keynesian economics was demonstrated to be bunk in the 1970s however knowledge and experience decay exponentially with time. We are about to repeat the failures of the past.
#2 Pat for President! You may have been overly harsh on the author though.
In order for the government to ‘stimulate’ the economy, they have to take cash away from those in the private sector. I don’t include the public sector as this would would meet the definition of a ponzi scheme. The more cash they take from me, the less i have to spend on things and services that actually make the economy go. Instead, i get to send my hard earned dollars to a bunch of folks who know better than me on how to spend it on things that do not generate one iota of wealth. I have to live within my means, the goverment and all its hangers-on need to as well.
1. Marc Malone
I agree with you on this being a payoff. But, let’s just let them call it a stimulus and follow thru with the “socialist way of thinking” about spreading wealth.
1. Infuse worthless (unearned) money into the system.
2. Inflation will cause the “good wealth” invested to be repaid with lessor “bad wealth”, leaving some of the “good wealth” with the next step down on the economic ladder.
3. This process repeats itself right on down the ladder, bringing the “good wealth” down to the masses.
What the socialist do not want to say is that the government will be right there to skim off some of the wealth each time it rolls down, to feed the ever increasing bureacracy, leaving none of the wealth distribution getting to the bottom of the ladder.
On another subject, the banking industry seems to be make a great scapegoat out of the breaking of the “housing bubble”. I have been crunching the numbers and given the increase in the number of foreclosers and late payments (pick any set of numbers you find on the web, they vary widely), the loses just don’t add up to the loses the banks are claiming on their bottom line. It seems to me that the banks have picked the “housing bubble” to hoodwink “us ignorant folk” into overlooking their “derivative” casino game that finally came up double zero.
The essential issue is not what works, it is what is right.
I disagree heartily, and yet we arrive at the same place on this “stimulus.” We were in a mild recession, that was suddenly and sharply exacerbated in the last quarter of 2008. What happened in the last quarter of 2008? Small businesses began to prepare for a promised, significant, tax increase. We have a “stimulus packagage” before us that, according to the Washington Post graphs, doesn’t even begin to kick in until more than a year from now, by which time the recession, if it is a two-year recession like most, will be dissipating. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2009/02/01/GR2009020100154.html
The announcement of consideration of a tax cut, as Rush Limbaugh (oh, why him?) has suggested, could be done now to test market response, and the President of the United States went to great lengths to dismiss that notion last night, and he also claimed he “inherited” this enormous crisis that has to be handled NOW using THIS package, even though the CBO agrees that the money will not be spent until the recession is over. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/20/AR2009012003980.html
This package is not designed to work now. It is designed to work in three years, the welfare of the rest of our country be damned. It is designed to be pumping money into politically connected people just in time for the advertising campaign for the next election.
1. Paul Krugman foresaw the Economic Crisis.
2. Paul Krugman recently won the Nobel Prize for Economics.
3. Paul Krugman says that the stimulus package needs more money.
4. Cortes E. DeRussy did not foresee the economic crisis.
5. Cortes E. DeRussy did not recently win the Nobel Prize for Economics.
6. Cortes E. DeRussy says that the stimulus package should be abandoned.
7. Paul Krugman > Cortes E. DeRussy
“Steve P #16″
Can you say “argument from authority”? Can you state Krugman’s argument or evidence for his position, or should we just take his word because he (like thousands of Austrian economists who disagree with every fundamental Krugman supports) foresaw the crisis and received a Nobel Prize?
Much of the Stimulus bill is catching up on deferred maintenance. It will provide jobs for many out of work Americans, and help consumer spending to recover, driving broader economic growth.
Americans who believed that housing prices would never decline, or that Madoff had discovered some financial fountain of profit were delusional. Some still are.
The Stimulus would not be necessary if the GOP talking points were true. The free market did not regulate itself, and massive government deficits do not instill confidence. Tax cuts lead to investment bubbles if rates are not re-adjusted to match economic growth. Real economic growth requires jobs that pay a living wage.
The GOP managed economy of this decade was bound to fail. It was a surprise only to the Randian fringe,
Peace.
DS
“Steve P #16″
Can you say “argument from authority”? Can you state Krugman’s argument or evidence for his position, or should we just take his word because he (like thousands of Austrian economists who disagree with every fundamental Krugman supports) foresaw the crisis and (unlike those more deserving Austrians) received a Nobel Prize?
Anyone buying this crap sandwich needs their cranial screw-top tighened.
This is a power-ploy for the Dems to play fast and loose with money that IS NOT THEIRS.
You’d think the ‘crats were dealing with monopoly money. Well, I don’t sphinct so, leetle donkeys! Do not pass go, do not collect your porkulus and go DIRECTLY to JAIL and stay the frick OUT OF THE COMMUNITY CHEST!
NO SOUP FOR YOU!
*sigh*
Well, the jail part would be my wildest dream for those crooks.
Nothing from nothing makes nothing.
Steve P. @ 16, even a broken clock gets to tell the right time twice a day. Krugman likely saw the crisis because he was part of the original group whom created/pushed for the government legislation that caused the banking collapse. And the Nobel prize is not as big of deal these days as they are more apt to be handed out for the right ideology than for anything relevant. Marc Malone @1 nails it on the head.
Steve:
Krugman has been seeing a recession every day for eight years. There is such a thing called the business cycle. Scream recession from the NYT every day and you will eventually be right.
Now this is prediction:
This article was written in 2002:
From the “We Shoulda Seen It Coming” Files [Mark Hemingway ]
I was reading Panic: The Story of Modern Financial Insanity last night, collection of articles edited by Michael Lewis that goes through the history of recent financial panics starting with Black Friday in 1987 and on through through the present day crisis. Anyway, one of the articles included was this astoundingly prescient piece by John Cassidy from The New Yorker in 2002:
By far the biggest purchasers of residential mortgages are Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The two quasi-governmental enterprises are now among the biggest financial institutions in the country, with almost four trillion dollars in assets between them. Their remarkable growth has helped millions of Americans to purchase their first home, but it has also concentrated a great deal of risk in two enterprises that maintain a smaller capital cushion than regular banks. Fannie and Freddie both buy mortgages on which the borrower has put down as little as three per cent of the purchase price, and they’re giving an increasing number of loans to people with suspect credit histories. Inevitably, concerns have arisen about what would happen to them if the housing market crashed. “They look O.K., but they are big, they are powerful, and they have systemic risk,” Karl Case commented. “And it’s not the kind of risk you can diversify around. You can’t hedge real-estate values.”
Frank Nothaft, Freddie Mac’s chief economist, repudiated concerns about its financial stability. He reminded me that Fannie and Freddie have their own regulator, the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight, which is about to subject them to quarterly “stress tests,” in which it simulates a sharp rise in interest rates and mortgage delinquencies over a ten-year period, and then checks whether they have enough capital to survive. So far, Fannie and Freddie have passed all the dry-run tests. “For a calamity to happen to Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae, you are talking about some economic scenario that is probably as severe as, if not worse than, the Great Depression,” Nothaft said.
Not everybody is convinced by this argument. William Poole, the president of the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, recently warned that the sheer size of Fannie and Freddie could create a “massive problem in the credit markets.” To pay for all the mortgages they buy, Fannie and Freddie issue bonds, which pay interest to their owners. What would happen, Poole asked, if the market value of these bonds fell sharply, because investors grew concerned about the financial soundness of Fannie and Freddie? “I do not know, and neither does anyone else,” he said. Poole is hardly alone in expressing concern. A couple of months ago, Fannie’s stock price sank after it announced that the recent wave of mortgage refinancings had adversely affected the balance it tries to maintain between its assets and its liabilities. (Fannie has since moved to restore the balance, and its stock price has recovered some of its losses.)
If Fannie or Freddie did get into serious trouble, the repercussions would dwarf the problems at Long-Term Capital Management in 1998, when buyers and sellers withdrew from the credit markets and the financial system almost seized up. That “liquidity crisis” prompted the Fed to organize a multibillion-dollar bailout, which a number of big Wall Street firms paid for. If Fannie and Freddie needed bailing out, taxpayers would probably end up paying for it. The federal government doesn’t guarantee the survival of Fannie or Freddie, but it is unthinkable that it would let either of them fail. When it comes to housing, even the most ardent conservatives in Congress tend to forget their free-market principles.
In the space of a few paragraphs we have warnings about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac defaulting, a liquidty crisis, a Federal bailout and the “most ardent conservatives in Congress” forgetting free-market principles over six years ago.
On a related note, this is just one of many prescient cautionary notes William Poole — who stepped down as head of the St. Louis Federal Reserve last year and is now a Senior Fellow at CATO — sounded over years leading up to the current crisis. Speaking as someone who covered the Fed for two years, Poole commanded immense respect within the Federal Reserve system and among Fed watchers on the street. A case could be made that he was most closely followed Fed official outside of the Chairman himself. Why didn’t anyone inside or outside the Fed heed his warnings?
Quoted from NRO Online The Corner
There is something in Anti-Submarine warfare called post flight analysis where they take the acoustic tapes to see if you actually found a submarine. Sometimes when the crew came back without contact careful analysis of the tape found that they missed the target. Prediction in economics is like that. Krugman declared he was right after the fact while Cassidy called it in 2002 long before even Krugman saw a problem. Cassidy predicted the recession, Krugman didn’t.
By the way your formulation:
2. Paul Krugman recently won the Nobel Prize for Economics.
3. Paul Krugman says that the stimulus package needs more money.
is called argument by authority and is therefore invalid.
I am educated as an economist. I have taught economics at a major university and I say the stimulus package is just earmarks and pork gone mad. It will not stimulate the economy. It will only transfer spending from the private sector to the public sector dollar for dollar in borrowing. The only way this bill will stimulate is if the fed prints money by buying debt or foreigners purchase it. The first method will cause runaway inflation and the second method will result in a decline in the dollar’s value. In either case interest rates will skyrocket choking off spending and the inflation will decrease the standard of living for all but the richest friends of Obama. (See Robert Barro’s ground breaking article referenced above)
By the way there are other living Nobel Prize winning economists who laugh at Krugman.
Just read this in the WSJ. It explains in detail what I alluded to in my post above:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123388703203755361.html
@20. Delia:
Your righteous indignation is entertaining. I’m also dreaming of jail for some crooks, but I am guessing our lists only have a minor amount of overlap.
I would love to see the GOP alternative plan. Tax cuts were tried, and failed. War spending was tried, and failed. Got any other bright ideas?
Peace.
DS
The GOP will listen to the experts like Joe the Economist and Rush Limbaugh. Then, everything will by peachy keen.
“Tax cuts were tried, and failed.” Elaborate please.
The Bush tax cuts did pick up the economy for a while despite ever more intrusive regulations. Unfortunately, they were relatively small, didn’t apply to businesses or fix the AMT, and they have an expiration date.
The Harding, Kennedy, and Reagan tax cuts were all smashing successes. Warren Harding took office during a very deep recession. He signed a huge tax and spending cut and paid off debt and the twenties started roaring. A few years later unemployment was 1.8% – the lowest ever recorded.
There is no “rescue” that’s feasible. It’s called pulling yourself up by your boot-straps and taking some lumps.
Why stretch out a recession and meanwhile make the gov. bigger and have us all suckling on the socialist teat? WHY? Hmm?
Let’s suffer this mess we are all a part of in one way or another and pull off the proverbial band-aid and get it over NOW rather than making our children and children’s children pay for something that WILL NOT WORK and is basically a FREAKING J-O-K-E. So we go without for a few years and we bitch and moan but the real estate market will eventually level out…people will shop again but more conservatively [no more Wally World stempedes yay!] and life WILL go on.
-Same with the banks. We should have let the sh*tty banks fail and let other banks take their places who knew how to HANDLE money.
Golden parachute$ do diddly squat for our economy.
That’s MHO anyhow. Laugh it up, fuzzball!
1. Marc Malone:
Stupid article. It completely misses the point that the stimulus was never about stimulus. It is merely a payoff to constituency groups. It’s about implementing the long-desired, liberal agenda. It’s about Socialism. It’s about power.
To the point:
Retribution for the last eight years.
18. David S:
Soldier of idiocy.
Pat J:
I see that the discussion has moved passed Paul Krugman inspired talking points on CNN and you are at a loss. Tell us why you think this bill will “create” jobs. Take into account the method of financing the deficit. Because Paul Krugman said so is not an answer.
#22 jerryofva – Thanks for the cogent and edifying post.
30. jerryofva:
————
This bill is beter than doing nothing. Here’s how it will create jobs. From U.S. News and World Report:
Summary of the $888 Billion Stimulus Bill Under Debate in the Senate
The Senate Appropriations and Finance Committees released a summary of spending and tax-cut proposals
Posted February 2, 2009
The Democratic chairmen of the Senate Appropriations and Finance committees released a summary of the current version of the $888 billion stimulus bill, which is being called the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. The bill could grow before the debate in the Senate is over, and Republicans are expected to offer an array of amendments. A vote could take place as early as the end of this week.
The summary, released by Sens. Max Baucus of Montana and Daniel Inouye of Hawaii, follows:
The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009
Creating Jobs, Cutting Taxes and Investing in Our Country’s Future
The United States is facing its deepest economic crisis since the Great Depression, one that calls for swift, bold action. The goals of this legislation are the same as they have been from day one: to strengthen the economy now and invest in our country’s future.
This legislation will create and save jobs; help state and local governments with their budget shortfalls to prevent deep cuts in basic services such as health, education, and law enforcement; cut taxes for working families and invest in the long-term health of our economy. We do all of this with unprecedented accountability, oversight and transparency so the American people know their money is being invested responsibly.
“The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 combines two essential ingredients needed to bring our economy back to life,” said Senate Appropriations Chairman Daniel K. Inouye (D-Hawaii). “We will create four million jobs in the near-term, and invest in America’s future by rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure for the long-term. In addition, this bill includes more than $301 billion to aid state and local governments as they struggle to meet increasing demand for social services amidst plummeting tax revenues. As we address this crisis, we must never lose sight of our responsibility to avoid wasteful spending by providing strict accountability and oversight measures. We must invest this money quickly, but also wisely.”
“Millions of Americans will get back to work and our economy will get back on track with the job-creating tax cuts and smart investments in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, ” said Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.). “Working families will get a financial boost, small businesses will finally catch a break, and the whole country will reap the benefits of a growing green energy sector, revitalized schools, and higher-quality health care. This bill has been carefully crafted to produce meaningful improvements to our economy in the short term, and to improve America’s fiscal strength and stability for the future.”
To accomplish these goals, The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act provides $888 billion in investments and tax cuts. Of this total, $694 billion will enter the economy by the end of Fiscal year 2010, meaning that 78 percent of the monies allocated will reach the American people by September 30, 2010, providing an immediate boost to the overall economy and creating an estimated four million jobs.
The Act provides for the following critical investments:
Tax cuts for Working Families – $247 billion
Job-creating Investments in Infrastructure and Science – $165 billion
Job-creating Investments in Health – $153 billion
Job-creating Investments in Education and Training – $138 billion
Job-creating Investments for an Energy Independent America – $82 billion
Job-creating Tax Cuts for Small Businesses – $21 billion
Helping Americans Hit Hard by the Economic Crisis – $72 billion
Law Enforcement, Oversight, Other Programs – $10 billion
Tax Cuts for Working Families include:
$142 billion in Making Work Pay tax credits will provide ninety-five percent of American workers with up to $500 in extra cash in their paychecks; married couples filing jointly can receive up to $1000 total.
$15 billion in tax cuts for families will give cash back to parents through an expansion of Earned Income Tax Credit for families with three or more children, additional marriage penalty relief for couples, and increased eligibility for the Refundable Child Tax Credit for lower-income families.
$4 billion in tax cuts for homeowners will facilitate new home purchases with enhancements to the existing $7,500 homebuyer tax credit.
$17 billion in one-time payments to seniors, disabled veterans and others will provide an immediately usable payment of $300 to seniors on Social Security, low-income recipients of Supplemental Security Income, disabled veterans and veterans on pensions, Railroad Retirement beneficiaries, and others who may not qualify for the Making Work Pay.
$70 billion in Alternative Minimum Tax relief will protect 24 million working families from thousands of dollars in additional income taxes for 2009
Job-Creating Investments in Infrastructure and Science include:
Infrastructure Improvements
$16 billion to repair, renovate and construct public schools in ways that will raise energy efficiency and provide greater access to information technology, and $3.5 billion to improve higher education facilities.
$16 billion in tax credit bonds and tax-exempt bond improvements will finance job-rich projects in the public and private sectors, to build and renovate schools and to make other infrastructure improvements at the state and local level, in national recovery zones and on Native reservations.
$9 billion for the National Telecommunications and Information Administration ‘ s (NTIA) Broadband Technology Opportunities Program. This competitive grant funding will increase broadband access and usage in unserved and underserved areas of the Nation, which will better position the U.S. for economic growth, innovation, and job creation.
$5.1 billion for the Department of Homeland Security to secure the homeland and promote economic activity.
$4.6 billion in funding for the Corps of Engineers.
$3.7 billion for VA hospital and medical facility construction and improvements, long-term care facilities for veterans, and improvements at VA national cemeteries.
$3.4 billion for repair, restoration and improvement of public facilities at parks, forests, refuges and on other public and tribal lands.
$3.2 billion for Facilities Sustainment, Restoration and Modernization to be used to invest in energy efficiency projects and to improve the repair and modernization of Department of Defense facilities to include Defense Health facilities.
$2.4 billion for Department of Defense Facilities including quality of life and family-friendly military construction projects such as family housing and child care centers.
$2.25 Billion for the HOME Investment Partnerships Program block grant to enable state and local government, in partnership with community-based organizations, to acquire, construct, and rehabilitate affordable housing and provide rental assistance to poor families.
$110 million in tax incentives to build broadband capacity in rural and underserved areas will grow jobs in the technology sector and create economic opportunities in targeted areas
Transportation
$27 billion is included for highway investments
$8.4 billion for investments in public transportation.
$5.5 billion for competitive grants to state and local governments for transportation investments.
$1.3 billion for investments in our air transportation system.
$3.1 billion for investments in rail transportation, including High Speed Rail.
$830 million for repair and restoration of roads on park, forest, tribal and other public lands.
Public Housing
$5 billion to the public housing capital fund to enable local public housing agencies to address a $32 billion backlog in capital needs — especially those improving energy efficiency in aging buildings.
$2.1 billion for full-year payments to owners receiving Section 8 project-based rental assistance.
$2.25 billion for the redevelopment of abandoned and foreclosed homes.
$1.5 billion for homeless prevention activities, which will be sent out to states, cities and local governments through the emergency shelter grant formula.
Environmental Clean-Up/Clean Water
$6.4 billion is directed towards environmental cleanup of former weapon production and energy research sites.
$6 billion for local clean and drinking water infrastructure improvements.
$1.4 billion for EPA ‘ s nationwide environmental cleanup programs, including Superfund.
$1.4 billion to support $3.8 billion in loans and grants for needed water and waste disposal facilities in rural areas.
Science
$1.5 billion total for NASA.
$1.4 billion total for National Science Foundation (NSF) Research.
$1.2 billion total for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association (NOAA).
Job-Creating Investments in Health include:
$23.9 billion for investments and incentives in health information technology (IT) will grow jobs in the information technology sector, and will jumpstart efforts to increase the use of health IT in doctors’ offices and other medical facilities. This will reduce health care costs and improve the quality of health care for all Americans.
$5.8 billion for prevention and wellness programs to fight preventable diseases and conditions with evidence-based strategies.
$3.5 billion to conduct biomedical research in areas such as cancer, Alzheimer’s, heart disease and stem cells, and to improve NIH facilities.
$1.1 billion to the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, NIH and the HHS Office of the Secretary to evaluate the relative effectiveness of different health care services and treatment options.
$870 million to complete funding for pandemic flu preparedness.
Job-Creating Investments in Education and Training include:
$79 billion State Fiscal Stabilization Fund includes $39 billion to local school districts and public colleges and universities, distributed through existing State and federal formulas; $15 billion to States as incentive grants as a reward for meeting key education performance measures; and $25 billion to States for other high-priority needs such as public safety and other critical services, which may include education.
$13 billion in tax cuts for college tuition and education will help students and their families afford four years of college, with a $2,500 tax credit and the ability to purchase computers and computer technology with funds from tax-free 529 Savings Plans.
$13 billion for Title 1 to help close the achievement gap and enable disadvantaged students to reach their potential.
$13 billion for Special Education/IDEA to improve educational outcomes for disabled children. This level of funding will increase the Federal share of special education services to its highest level ever.
$13.9 billion to increase the Pell Grant maximum award and to pay for increases in program costs resulting from increased eligibility and higher Pell Grant awards. The bill supports an increased Pell Grant maximum award of $281 in the 2009-2010 academic year and $400 in the 2010-2011 academic year. This aid will help 7 million students pursue postsecondary education.
$3.4 billion for job training including State formula grants for adult, dislocated worker, and youth programs (including $1.2 billion to create up to one million summer jobs for youth).
$108 million in extended Trade Adjustment Assistance will help businesses retool to avoid trade-related layoffs, and provide workers with income support and retraining if international trade causes job losses
Job-Creating Investments and Tax Incentives in Energy include:
$33 billion in green energy tax incentives will grow jobs in the renewable energy sector by encouraging private-sector investments in research and production of green energy with wind, biomass, hydropower, and other renewable sources
$6 billion for repair of federal buildings to increase energy efficiency using green technology.
$5.4 billion in tax incentives for conservation and green energy use will encourage and reward energy efficiency and the building of alternative fueling stations, and facilitate the funding of conservation projects to improve America’s energy independence and grow jobs in these sectors as well.
$4.6 billion for Fossil Energy research and development.
$4.5 billion for smart-grid related activities, including work to modernize the electric grid.
$4.2 billion for Energy Efficiency and Conservation Grants.
$2.9 billion is available for the Weatherization Assistance Program.
$2.6 billion for energy efficiency and renewable energy research.
$2 billion is provided in grant funding for the manufacturing of advanced batteries systems and components and vehicle batteries that are produced in the United States.
$1.6 billion is provided for grants to make schools and hospitals, significant users of energy, more energy efficient.
$10 billion is provided for new loan guarantees aimed at standard renewable projects such as wind or solar projects and for electricity transmission projects.
Job-Creating Tax Cuts and Investments for Small Businesses include:
Approximately $21 billion in business tax relief and incentives will help businesses survive in growing markets, get financing for expansion, and get the money they need for payroll and expenses. Businesses will be able to more easily write off the cost of new equipment, write off more losses if they’re hard hit economically, delay or reduce some tax payments, and cash in unused tax credits.
Loans for Small Businesses: $730 million to stimulate lending to small businesses.
$208 million in Work Opportunity tax incentives will increase the hiring of disabled veterans and disadvantaged youths into the workforce
Help for Workers and Families Hardest Hit by the Economic Crisis includes:
$87 billion in increased Medicaid funding will help states to respond to rising numbers of Americans seeking health coverage through Medicaid, to balance state budgets, and to deal with other fiscal pressures brought on by the economic crisis.
$47 billion in unemployment insurance improvements will allow Americans who lose their jobs in the economic downturn to receive an extra $25 in their weekly benefits, receive unemployment insurance longer if needed, pay fewer taxes on unemployment benefits, and get help even if they need to move to part-time work or leave work for family reasons
$26 billion in COBRA premium assistance will help workers who lose their jobs to keep health coverage longer with a 65% subsidy for COBRA premiums
$16.5 billion for additional Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), formerly Food Stamps, benefits.
$3 billion in Temporary Assistance to Needy Families funding will allow programs to better serve the country’s lowest-income families in this time of economic crisis
$1.8 billion in Medicaid, Medicare, and Indian Health Service funds will allow Americans transitioning into the workforce from the Temporary Assistance to Needy Families program to keep health coverage through Medicaid longer, will assist low-income seniors and disabled Americans with Medicare premiums, and will help American Indians and Alaska Natives afford health care
Child Care Development Block Grant: $2 billion to provide quality child care services for an additional 300,000 children in low-income families who increasingly are unable to afford the high cost of day care.
Head Start & Early Head Start: $2.1 billion to allow an additional 124,000 children to participate in this program, which provides development, educational, health, nutritional, social and other activities that prepare children to succeed in school.
State and Local Law Enforcement: $3.95 billion total to support law enforcement efforts.
Unprecedented Oversight, Accountability and Transparency
The American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan provides unprecedented oversight, accountability, and transparency to ensure that taxpayer dollars are invested effectively, efficiently, and as quickly as possible.
Funds are distributed whenever possible through existing formulas and programs that have proven track records and accountability measures already in place.
Numerous provisions in the bill provide for expedited but effective obligation of funds so that dollars are invested in the economy as quickly as possible.
The Government Accountability Office and the Inspectors General are provided additional funding for auditing and investigating recovery spending.
A new Recovery Act Accountability and Transparency Board will coordinate and conduct oversight of recovery spending and provide early warning of problems.
A special website will provide transparency by posting information about recovery spending, including grants, contracts, and all oversight activities.
State and local whistleblowers who report fraud and abuse are protected.
There are no earmarks in this bill.
@26. Jarhead91:
Here are some facts for you to consider:
The only tax cut you mentioned that was truly a success was Kennedy’s. Marginal tax rates were well over 50%, which he corrected. Harding cut taxes and government, reducing the deficit, but hardly spurring robust economic growth. Reagan’s cuts led to similar problems to what we saw recently under Bush II – massive deficits which ultimately impact the market negatively.
Maybe if you would define what you mean by a “smashing success”, we can find some common ground?
Peace.
DS
PS – Economic growth under Harding was
From 1922 to 1929 real GDP growth averaged 5.0%.
From 1933 to 1936 — FDR’s first term — real GDP growth averaged 9.5% or almost twice as strong as under Harding. From 1936 to 1940 — before WWII spending came into play –US GDP growth averaged
8.5% by far the strongest peacetime eight years in US history.
David S. & Pat J & Steve P…if this thing is so great why don’t your dems just pass it themselves? They don’t need a single republican vote.
Steve P. …do you remember the mutual fund trading scandal a few years back? Most people have probably forgotten about that by now. Turned out to be relatively minor and was fairly easily solved. Well your pal PK predicted that scandal would be huge…bigger than Enron he said….with the potential to wipe out major players in the fund industry and jeopardize shareholders. Whoops. None of that happened.
@29. Cybergeezer:
A (sm)army of one.
Peace.
DS
@34/35. Retep:
The Democrats will pass a stimulus bill themselves if they have to. They are trying to be nice by offering the Republicans a seat at the table. At this rate, it will be a limited time offer.
Krugman wasn’t the one calling it “the worst scandal we’ve seen in 50 years”, that was Arthur Levitt, the former Securities and Exchange Commission chairman. That the SEC under Bush did not act in a timely fashion somehow does not surprise me.
Not that this has anything to do with the topic of stimulus.
Peace.
DS
Tax cuts were tried, and failed. War spending was tried, and failed. Got any other bright ideas?
What are you taking about? What nonsense.
1)It Bush Tax cuts that us saved us from a recession after 911, and they were adroitly handled. That, and general GOP tax campaign promises were why they were passed. Had Gore won the election, he would have done just what the Democrats are doing now, and we would have certainly have had a prolonged recession and perhaps even a depression. The WOT would have been impossible. Have you forget where the economy was in the fall of 2001? We got near 7 years of solid growth out of those cuts, with average quarterly GDP growth around 3%, the highest in any developed economy in the period, and an envious one in any time period.
2) The Bush tax cuts do not in anyway have anything to to with this mess. The did not cause it and they were not enacted to to solve it. How could tax cuts made 7 years ago cause any relieve at all for this fiasco? This mess was caused by the CRA/subprime/MBS/CDS mess that is almost wholly created by the Democrats on The Hill and the Democrats on Wall Street. It is a institutional solvency/credit problem, what does that have to do with tax cuts for individuals? And BTW, this fiasco was most likely triggered on purpose to aid the democrats (I do not think that they even saw how out of hand it would get). It has nothing at all to do with the Bush tax cuts nor are the the tax cuts at all related to any attempt to turn this mess around.
This, it is an irrational statement to say that “Tax cuts were tried, and failed.”.
For
1) the effect that they were enacted for they were tried and they were wildly effect.
and
2) They are not being proposed for this problem (at least not meaningful ones) so one cannot say that they have either been tried or that they have failed.
Your formulation is inaccurate as to the fact and irrational as to its logic.
As to reasonable tax policy to face this (Democrat) government created fiasco, the best thing that they could do right now is to put a 2 year moratorium on corporate taxes, payroll taxes and capital gains taxes (well they might just have to reduce the payroll taxes, but even a 50% reduction for 10 months would be super). That would do it.
Instead, Pelosi is pushing to repeal those Bush cuts, which will be a complete disaster if she does it this year. Even if they let them just expire in 2010, we are liable to get a little mini-recession out of that, and in any event there will be a real cost in terms of the robustness of any recovery when they expire.
Instead they are give more “tax credits” back in the lower to quintiles, This is in effect welfare money as most of these people pay no income taxes in the first place. It is just a out and out bribe to these non-taxpayers to vote for the Democrat Party, and it will have little effect at all as far as “restoring” the economy. This was never the intention behind the Democrats tax policy. The intention is to rob peter to bribe Paul.
Likewise, the assertion: “War spending was tried, and failed.” is both factually wrong and irrational:
1) The war spending was not intened for any economic purpose whatsoever. It did not cause this crisis, it did not alleviate it
2) The war spending was not a crucial element in the economic gains during any part of this period. The War spending was in great measure oversea. It was not the case as in WW2 or Viet Nam that the war spending require heavy manufacturing spending in the United State. The defense sector, in any event is much smaller noe then at almost any time in the post war periond. The Iraq war over seven years cost about as much or slightly less, depending on how you want to calculate it, than the the current stimulus package. That comes out to around 100 billion a year in a 12 to 13 trillion dollar economy. Not much of a stimulus.
Thus, as with the tax cuts:
1) For the task that the war spedning was made, it was tried, and it was successful
2) For either the effect of boosting the economy prior to fall of 2008, during or afterward, War spending was not tried and thus did not fail.
Again, you assertion is factual wrong, and logically in correct.
BTW, I pulled this off Boingboing as a way to compare the cost of the “porkulus package”
Marshall Plan: Cost: $12.7 billion, Inflation Adjusted Cost: $115.3 billion
• Louisiana Purchase: Cost: $15 million, Inflation Adjusted Cost: $217 billion
• Race to the Moon: Cost: $36.4 billion, Inflation Adjusted Cost: $237 billion
• S&L Crisis: Cost: $153 billion, Inflation Adjusted Cost: $256 billion
• Korean War: Cost: $54 billion, Inflation Adjusted Cost: $454 billion
• The New Deal: Cost: $32 billion (Est), Inflation Adjusted Cost: $500 billion (Est)
• Invasion of Iraq: Cost: $551b, Inflation Adjusted Cost: $597 billion
• Vietnam War: Cost: $111 billion, Inflation Adjusted Cost: $698 billion
• NASA: Cost: $416.7 billion, Inflation Adjusted Cost: $851.2 billion
(note: I do not understand exactly what the NASA entry is about).
I do not know which is more frightening, the cost of the bailout, or the amount of inflation over the years that these expenditures show when you look at the original cost and the inflation adjusted cost.
If this bill goes through, you can expect hyper inflation in two year: $10 dollars be comes worth $1 today. See how we al like the stimupus package then
@38. Mongoose:
See #32 and #33.
Bush’s tax cuts were not a success for America. Solvency of institutions including government has everything to do with the economic “crisis”. Deficit spending was never “ok”, despite Cheney’s assertions about Reagan.
As far as the tax cuts being successful for what they were intended for, you may be correct. They appear to have been intended to provide tax relief to the top 5% of earners, and have done so very effectively, to the detriment of all.
You will notice that your “porkulus roundup” includes some massive stimulus spending, and puts into perspective the outlandish costs incurred in Vietnam, Iraq, and Korea (not counting our soldiers’ sacrifices).
I’ll be happy to bet against you on the hyper inflation. With the dollar as the reserve currency of the world, it is not likely. Even a 15% rate of inflation is probably not going to happen, although it would certainly help some of the folks in upside down mortgages.
I so know what is frightening – that we would continue, each generation, to spend more on wars overseas than on national security for our economy.
I’d love to loan you a dollar today for a 1000% return in 2 years, but it sounds a little like what Madoff was up to.
Peace.
DS
32. Pat J:
That is just too good to refute; BUT, READ THE CONGRESSIONAl BUDGET OFFICE REPORT.
Golly gee Willickers, Dave S.
Where’s your chest thumping resonse to MY answer to YOU? Hmm?
See #27. Delia:
Really. I’m curious why you didn’t respond? I’d like your opinion [even though I'm sure it will be circular logic] but I’m reheheheheheheallllllllly curious just the same.
;p
A show of hands, please?
How many people here want to idly stand by and watch Barack Obama turn our dollar into a peso?
Anyone?
Not even a pinky finger up?
hmmmmmmmm?
One thing I’ve never heard a Democrat explain, coherently. You always hear that taxes could and should be higher on “the rich”. I don’t think the Clinton people ever thought that they’d managed to tax rich people enough. The question is this: what’s the proper amount of taxes for someone who makes $10 million a year? 100% after the first million or $500,000? My guess would be most Democrats, especially the poor ones, would think that appropriate. They’d also, if they got rich, figure out a way to get around the law (maybe just not paying the taxes, like half of Obama’s cabinet appointees).
Another difficulty that’s not mentioned in much of the debate on the stimulus package is that we *know*, based on the Democratic party’s history, that they’re going to increase their payroll at the Federal, State, and local level by a considerable amount. That means that if we’ve spent $900 Billion on this thing, $500 Billion or $600 Billion will be permanently added to the budget. They’ll lie and say this isn’t happening, but the public employee unions are slobbering all over themselves in anticipation of the increased memberships and pay raises.
If this garbage dump passes buy gold.
Obama’s cabinet should have written this piece of garbage they all seem to be for individuals paying less taxes.
Pat J:
You fail. This is just a laundry list of programs. Just more talking points by someone who doesn’t know a thing about economics. I doubt you have had Econ 101. I doubt you can even trot out the trusty Keyensian IS-LM model in your defense.
What we have here is a great example of how the MSM-Democratic Party-Web nexus works. Obama gives a speech to a partisan audience assembled at a luxury resort on taxpayer money on Thursday. Friday morning CNN hauls out Krugman to provide talking points to astoturfers like Pat J. The astro-turfers will be out in force for the weekend. I haven’t got the foggiest idea why he shows up at a site where he will convince nobody. It’s kind of like the stimulus package. It provides employment for useless at the expense of more productive people.
There should at least be some provision in the bill to hire some Cuban Consultants from Havana to teach us how to keep the cars we have now running FOREVER. It’s already starting to feel like we are going to need that skill. The Cubans seem to have mastered it.
Well they will turn the dollar into a peso. Mexico is our future.
I dount if we can turn this around.
@43. DavidN:
Actually, I’d be happy with something between 39%-78% as a top bracket. That seems to be the historically successful range for promoting economic prosperity. If evidence can demonstrate that some other figure works better, I’m willing to reconsider, but history speaks authoritatively. My pet peeve is that the payroll tax should apply to all earned income, and SS benefits should be means-tested. It’s common sense.
I don’t think anyone is lying about adding employees to the workforce. Obama was estimating that about 20% of the jobs would be in government. Same as the ratio before the crisis. A lot of stimulus is going to end up in contracts to private industry.
Peace.
DS
Anyone think laws should be restricted to not longer than 10 8.5×11” pages single-sided in 12 point font?
I’d much rather see a billions of tiny bills each standing on their own merits than confusing baskets of dung sprinkled with a few rose petals.
obama lost the pr war here, clearly. crazy hate flying back and forth.
http://hateonme.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie37ciAOOQ0
@41. Delia:
My apologies, I didn’t know you had addressed me. I’m not much of a chest thumper. I do think there is good reason to believe that this package will have a positive impact on the economy. There is no evidence that it will prolong the recession or make government significantly larger in the long term. I didn’t see the line-item for the socialist teat; that sounds a little bit kinky to me.
Too bad Bush couldn’t have created some jobs – now Obama has eight years of stagnation to make up for just to get us back on track, and a global recession to boot. I for one think it’s a good idea for government to spend some money when the private sector refuses to do so. Somebody has to keep the economy moving.
Peace.
DS
Lots and lots of talk about how smart Ann Coulter is . . . brilliant. She just said, “Recessions typically last 18 months. If we just wait six months and do nothing the economy will fix itself.”
Who here agrees with that? Who thinks that’s really smart?
“Got any other bright ideas?”
As a matter of fact, I do. We enact the Fair Tax and open up offshore drilling and other drilling and mining assets. We’ll have a boom within two years if we do that, and there will likely be a surplus.
“If evidence can demonstrate that some other figure works better, I’m willing to reconsider”
Let’s suppose for a moment that your theory is correct.
Would you (re)consider that those who earned their money (whatever the amount) through voluntary trade involving no fraud have a moral right to every single penny, and that exactly zero is rightfully the Federal Government’s to spend as its members think fit?
This debate, like so many others, devolves into the same type as that held by those who argue over AGW. Each side cites facts (sometimes) in support of its position. Few will stand up and say that it is not the proper purpose of the Federal Government to even try to fix the problem in the first place.
There is some plausibility to the ‘government should control’ position in the case of AGW, at least. There is none here.
Freedom is a right, not something we can validly dispense with because Keynesians or Progressives, however numerous, believe they have something which ‘works better’.
David S., it was only a matter of time before you blamed BUSHHHHHHHHHHH. bwahahahahaha!
Pa-freakin’-thetic.
53. myth buster:
“As a matter of fact, I do. We enact the Fair Tax and open up offshore drilling and other drilling and mining assets. We’ll have a boom within two years if we do that, and there will likely be a surplus.”
~
Right on!
Drillllllll baby, drill!
Our country has turned into a bunch of pansy assed wussies.
Why the frick is everyone so damned worried about saving the spotted owl and not drilling our own oil but GUNG HO for putting us into TRIMULUS S_P_E_N_Ding debt FOREVER?
Huh?
You closet Pinko Commies need your own GD country!
Good to see the wingnuts still have a death wish and want to drag the rest of the country with them on their journey to hell
56. Robert Hurley:
Good to see the wingnuts still have a death wish and want to drag the rest of the country with them on their journey to hell
~
I take it you’ve given the “Porkuless Spendgasms” a ‘green light’?
The journey to HELL is paved with ‘good intentions’. The journey to hell is being shoved down our throats by the Dems. How ‘wealthy’ are you Robert? I’m still living ‘comfortably’ but I’ve cut back A LOT. People need to grow a set and stop expecting the Gov. [i.e. hardworking TAX payer's moula] to cover their assets.
Dems are all about POWER and they PLAY to the ‘little guy’ because they know the ‘little guy’ is STUPID and easily beguiled.
Surprised? Nope. Stupid outranks Smart by leaps and bounds sadly enough.
As of 2/6 / 09 in The Senate of The United States of America .
By Sam Moore
America Officially became a Socialist Nation . Instantly , Zap In one fall sweep or false Excuse (based on a leftist Loan fraud hoax for Poor in new homes ) That small snow ball is now the size of America !
We have been Nationalized , Universalized Health care and Unionized overnight with little discussion as to the long term Consequences and the even Longer lasting effects of this sudden tragedy on our Nation .
Remember (not Military ) most Government employees are unionized so they will always vote for Socialism and Union Control and Rules to keep their Jobs .
Seeing Europe long time struggle with Socialism should have made us say “”Buyer beware”" No thanks .
America is the most thriving and most Productive Nation ever on earth by far . Make that past tense . We will now finally be on equal footing with totally unproductive Europe ,
(The dream of all Liberals in America ) but with that comes high Price of 10-12 % unemployment , Countless Union problems and Strikes , Crazy worker rights for bad employees you can’t fire while effecienty rates die and
Huge inflation rates are the order of the day and of course alwatys a very stagnate economy not to mention off the Planet ”Energy Prices “in Europe for starters plus they ca not afford a real Military .
America has been their Guard dog for 64 years …. that will have to end as will the rest of the World America keeps peaceful and safe as well . That will now be the UN’s job . God help us .
Capitalism was always our Winning hand but the far Left, Colleges and the Media wanted Socialism since it is a easy sell to the general Public , the Lazy , unskilled , uneducated , the poor and of telling the middle class they will not pay taxes are 84 % of all voters in America . Insuring One Party Rule .
Classic # 101 Marxism and Leninism . We will not have One party Goverement rule our Fore fathers warned us against has finally come into reality .
Socialism means only one thing . Government controls your Life from Womb to tomb Period . Personal Rights are decided by others with countless new laws , permits and regulations .
Of course All of our State , Local and Federal Governments will have to double in size , Building , Equipment , personal quickly to administer all of this new Socialist programs since it requires lots of bodies and Oh yea a large increase in tax payer money as well ..NOT MENTIONED …. YEA GOTTA PAY FOR IT ”ALL ” .
Meaning Goverement will be the Largest Employer in America , spend more money and be a staggering 24-30 % of our GDP alone . In 1990 under Reagan it was 9 % .
New Word “Regulations ” get use to them ……. “”FAR HIGHER TAXES LIKE EUROPE HAS TO PAY FOR ALL THOSE FREEBIES THAT ARE KILLING EUROPE’S ECONOMY …….
YES EVEN THE MIDDLE CLASS WILL HAVE TO PAY FAR HIGHER TAXES YOU WERE LIED TO (YOU )WOULD NOT HAVE TO PAY THEM BY PRESIDENT OBAMA AND THE LEFT IN CONGRESS AND THE MEDIA .
First the Media, Colleges and Socialist in this Country pushed Class warfare on the top 10 -16% (FEW VOTES )
saying they pay no taxes when in Truth is they play the Lions share of Taxes at 68.9 % 77 % of all Taxes …. kept from the general public .
Next came Free , Free, Free Health care , Countless Entitlements welfare programs and now with Hundreds more we have actually our done Europe .
I morn our passing as the most productive Nation ever on Earth .
It was always the Gold of this President , Liberals , Socialist , Colleges and Media in this Country to have America copying Europe exactly that saw as better , elite , Mannered , more caring .
classy and scholarly . All Lies but
Socialist Won . America Lost .
Too change the greatest travesty ever to happen to this Country would be the equivalent of putting tooth paste back in a Tube sadly .
It will not happen in our life time, children’s or grandchildren’s life time as well .
I was the President of the largest Furniture Co for 9 years in Socialist Canada and I know of that which I speak .
I have written this with a Heavy Heart this Morning well knowing 1 + 1 always equals 2 .
2/7/09
Sam Moore
Too 33 DAVID S .
What you ” Conveniently ” Leave out of your High Taxes and Socialism is better… is …… Where high taxes exist they have terrible economics and unemployment . Canada , and Europe and Union control Not to mention it kills their export markets and own imports America currently pays 35 % in corp. e taxes the second highest in the world and 15 Capitol gains taxes . Ireland dropped their Corp. tax and personal tax to 12 % and they are kicking Europe’s butt and that is why they don’t want the Euro .
Up until 15 years ago America was 52 % of the export markets .
Today America is 27 % and China is number 2 at 13 % . Japan , Asia and S,Korea are 3-4 … all of Europe is way back at 5-6 .
Europe and Canada are useless in exports killing those economices .
Oh yea FDR Jobs averaged 18-24 % unimployed and inflation ran 20 % while taxes actually reached 101 % over a $ 100.000.00 and the economy stayed broke until 1942 .
Crisis to Catastrophe.
The pork plot thickens.
Bend over and pucker up.
“The Democrats will pass a stimulus bill themselves if they have to. They are trying to be nice by offering the Republicans a seat at the table. At this rate, it will be a limited time offer.”
Trying to be nice? Ahahahahaha. Like Obama telling everyone he won, and that means the people want whatever he wants?
Like his angry, sarcastic tirade at the meeting of Democrats?
Like his telling those Republicans who vote for the bill that they are “patriotic,” unlike those who want to slow down and look at it more closely, or change it, or have, basically, anything to do with it at all?
Even most of the Democrats had nothing to do with drafting this bill. “Seat at the table” indeed.
Yeah, that’s all real nice, all right.
@59. ReConUSMC:
Actually, higher taxes lead to more robust economic growth. History demonstrates as much. Our declining share of export markets can be attributed to the decline of manufacturing employment under the last GOP President.
Peace.
DS
The Bill, as proposed, is NOT RECOMMENDED by the Congressional Budget Office, whose duty it is to study effects of Congressional legislation. And this group is not made up of a political group.
This Bill should not be passed until it can get approval from the CBO.
@63. Cybergeezer:
I’m not sure what you mean by “approval from the CBO”, as this is not one of their services, being a nonpartisan group. Since the stimulus is meant as short term measure to boost the economy for the near term, this analysis would be closer to an endorsement.
Peace.
DS
US News
David S. – If I understand your post, only Deomcrats can effectiveley cut taxes. I must have missed the “Roaring Thirties” in history class.
Great talking points from Huffington. Tell me all about how FDR taxed and spent his way back to full employment. After two terms, he had unemployement all the way down to 18%. Great job.
@65. Jarhead91:
A quote from my source above for clarification:
Actually, party affiliation does not determine who can effectively cut taxes, but it does correlate very well with who has effectively cut taxes. But the larger point you missed was that cutting taxes in the long run is not good for the economy.
FDR took a Republican caused disaster and turned it around, leading to unprecedented prosperity in the USA.
Tax cuts are not the answer.
Peace.
DS
DS – You have swallowed the Marxist Kool-Aid. The worst thing in the world for an economy is GOVERNMENT SPENDING. Whether the money spent is generated from borrowing, taxes, or currency devaluation is of secondary importance.
Or, as my Macro-econ professor put it: Government drag on the economy is the Net-Present Value of its expenditures minus transfer payments.
Cutting spending AND taxes is the best thing for the economy in the long run.
You left something out of the cycle as it occurred in 1929:
Tax cuts, boom, bubble, crash, Keynesian “stimulus” spending, protectionism, deficit spending, and government interference with the business cycle. Followed by a long depression.
“We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . After eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!”
Henry Morgenthau – Treasury secretary – 1939
They have several. California, Vermont, New York… Having thoroughly FUBARed those places, they’re carpetbagging to places that still work. The problem is that they’re mystified as to why it’s precisely the most socialist places that are such economic backet cases, and when they plunk their carpetbags down in places that still work, they then go about the business of “change”.
If they haven’t received the clue by now, it’s not going to happen. All you can do now, is get drunk, start shooting your gun, and hope that sends the pantywaists packing back to where they came from.
@67. Jarhead91:
You might want to let the Congressional Budget Office in on your secret evidence that government spending will hurt the economy. The stimulus package will be a boon to the economy according to their analysis.
Roosevelt is seen as the father of big-spending government, yet the judgment of history seems to be that in the 1930s he was too timid.
“The lesson from the 1930s and early 1940s is that the government has to do much more than it has done so far, both to end the financial crisis and to get us out of the recession,” said Mr. Sylla of N.Y.U. “I do think the Obama team knows this and seems prepared to act on the knowledge.”
Why would I be interested in Morgenthau’s opinion?
Basically a fiscal conservative, Morgenthau nevertheless went along with mounting federal deficits as the Roosevelt administration struggled to meet the nation’s relief needs and to revive the economy. In 1937, however, Morgenthau finally persuaded Roosevelt to make substantial reductions in federal spending, a move that helped trigger the “Roosevelt recession” of the late 1930s.
Just the facts, thanks.
You can keep pretending that tax cuts will fix everything, but the facts don’t match your hypothesis. Government spending is the proven answer.
Peace.
DS
Just laughable.
Government spending is the answer? That must explain the dramatic growth of the French economy and the ever shrinking Hong Kong economy.
@70. Jarhead91:
I expected more from you.
Real GDP growth rates as of January 1, 2008:
France = 1.8%
USA = 2.2%
HK = 5.8%
Sure, the French are lagging a little because they are trying to transition into a more market based economy. But your assertion that the Hong Kong economy is “ever shrinking” is just wrong.
Next time you try to refute something, I would advise you to cite your sources. You might also consider addressing my arguments, rather than embarrassing yourself by trying to change the subject.
Government spending is the proven answer, despite your good humor.
Peace.
DS
Tax cuts have a much poorer multiplier effect on the economy than spending. If you would bother to look at GDP during the Great Depression, you would see that it recovered very nicely 1934-1936 due to the stimulus and only fell back in 1937 when FDR reined in spending
Well you got your wish – thanks to Obama and a few Rino traitors, we are about to spend a Trillion dollars on a Dem wish list. I told my kids that they would be paying for this for the rest of their lives. Maybe they will be smarter than my generation and revolt.
@73. Jarhead:
It’s much cheaper than Iraq, and we get to keep it. A step in the right direction.
Peace.
DS
Of course the ‘economic stimulus’ is a fraud. I like how it’s compared to the early days of alchemy, that fits nicely.
The idea of creating and spending even more money to solve a problem that was the result of spending too much money is laughable.
In the long run this will cause the money supply to ballon, currencies to drop like a rock, and gold and other precious metals to remain one of the few safe havens for wealth.
The economic stimulus will be stealing from the taxpayers for decades and all it accomplishes is delaying problems that we will eventually have to face one way or the other.
Gold and precious metals are one of the few ways you can protect yourself and your family.
“Bailout” is a more appropriate term for “stimiulus”.
And then there’s that issue of whether or not bailing out struggling financial institutions (many of which are guilty of fraud and reckless financing practices) deserve to be bailed out.