‘Lock People Up? We Haven’t Got the Heart for That’
It’s a sad thing to watch a great nation — in its day, the greatest of all nations — descend into moral chaos. It’s sadder still to watch as that nation’s elites acquiesce to the descent. Witness the state of affairs in England, where four people were killed during the recent riots, which swept across London and through other cities like some kind of modern-day plague.
I’ve spent but seven days in England, confining myself primarily to some of London’s quieter, safer areas, with one day spent with friends in their quaintest of English cottages in the quaintest of English towns. The trip was brief enough and so limited in scope that I was able to keep alive the England of my dreams, that most civilized of countries that once ruled the world, and even in the decline of its empire raised a fist to Hitler and endured the Blitz and Dunkirk before rearing up and chasing the Huns out of North Africa and across Europe. The England of my dreams is a country of ladies and gentlemen who hold their heads high and keep their upper lips stiff.
Alas, the mother country isn’t what it used to be. If you keep your head held high and your upper lip stiff over there these days, some yob is likely to come along and smash you in the face with a brick. And then someone will write in the Guardian that it was your fault.
I watched coverage of the English riots with no little sympathy for the police officers sent out to deal with them. In April 1992, I spent three nights chasing rioters hither and thither on the streets of South Los Angeles. That riot, like the recent violence in England, started as a protest to an incident of perceived police abuse. In Los Angeles, the spark was supplied by the videotaped police beating of Rodney King and the subsequent acquittal of the four LAPD officers brought to trial because of it. In England, it was a protest over the police shooting death of Mark Duggan.
But whether in Los Angeles or London, the precipitating events were merely the sparks that ignited the fuel, like lightning striking a parched forest. Whatever honest claims to outrage might have been made by the original demonstrators, the violence that followed was nothing more than lawlessness masquerading as social protest. As a gang member turned informant told me in 1992, “F*** Rodney King. Rodney King ain’t no Crip. We don’t give a s*** about Rodney King.” And I’m sure that in England, not one rioter in a thousand could have told you who Mark Duggan was.
Also like in Los Angeles in 1992, the police in London appeared unwilling or unable to confront the sudden outbreak of violence, linked as it was, however tenuously, to a controversial police use of force. In both cases the rioting lasted for three days, with isolated incidents continuing for days more.
And just as was the case in Los Angeles, in England there is no shortage of commentary seeking to excuse the rioters’ behavior as the logical consequence of mistreatment by the government, the police, the rich, or what have you. With the excuse making comes the implicit threat that if the government doesn’t rain down large sums of money on all those oppressed people, well, don’t say you weren’t warned.
To his great credit, British Prime Minister David Cameron cited a “moral collapse” as one cause of the riots, which of course was greeted by howls of derision from elites on both sides of the Atlantic. The New York Times, in a display of moral confusion one might expect to find in a high school newspaper, editorialized thus:
Mr. Cameron, a product of Britain’s upper classes and schools, has blamed the looting and burning on a compound of national moral decline, bad parenting and perverse inner-city subcultures.
Would he find similar blame — this time in the culture of the well housed and well off — for Britain’s recent tabloid phone hacking scandals or the egregious abuse of expense accounts by members of Parliament?
You see? He’s from a good family and good schools, so he is unqualified to render judgment on those so driven by desperation that they are impelled to join the mobs running amok and helping themselves to other people’s property, especially when members of his own kind have been caught behaving so objectionably. Not to excuse those involved in the phone hacking and expense account scandals, but do the editors at the New York Times not recognize a distinction between these crimes and the mob violence seen in England two weeks ago?
I visited a British police blog to get their perspective on the riots. I gathered that the consideration of Bratton is not something new, but predates the riots, and that the rank and file police are in favour.
It was also obvious that they are just as clueless as their superiors about the causes of the riots, namely, the importation into Britain of millions of racially and culturally alien, unassimilable immigrants. Anybody who mentioned the obvious racial character of the riots was shouted down and/or deleted. There was a deep hostility to the English population. I’m sure you’ve seen something analogous in America.
Plenty of the rioters (I don’t mean a small percentage, either) were ethnically English or otherwise natives of the British Isles.
As fun as it is to peg it to the “Asians” or other foreign groups, plenty of “white trash” (whether relatively poor or more privileged) were out there stealing stuff alongside everyone else.
What do they call it over there? Hooliganism? Also: chav.
Those are both associated primarily with white culture in the UK.
Yes, well, meep, that’s true. It’s also true that rioting was concentrated among some minorities, as other crimes are concentrated among other minorities still. Lots of things are true.
Your point?
True, meep, it’s not just an imported problem. In Britain, urban white illegitimacy rates are as high or higher than that of American urban blacks. That’s some serious dysfunction – did you know that if you correct for illegitimacy, the disparity twixt blacks and whites in American prisons falls away?
But imported 3rd World populations contributed mightily to the breakdown – Cambridge/Oxford elites destroying the cohesion of everybody’s neighborhoods but their own, teaching in British schools that Britain’s history and her people were crap.
Ed Driscoll reminded us yesterday that John Cleese moved from London to Bath to get away from all the multiculturalness – he wanted a “liberal” place where he and his pals could continue to sneer at the religious. I wonder what he means? Surely it’s still safe to mock Christians and Jews in London.
Thanks Jack Dunphy! You write better than Wambaugh – write a book and I’ll buy it.
A friend who watched the rioters outside his house, knowing that no help would come if he were burned out, stated that they were about 90% Black – Caribbean folks.
The press is making a great effort to find and publicize the White, middle class and wealthy scum, but they were the great minority of the scum on the streets.
What the UK had, unlike LA, was a shortage of Korean shopkeepers on rooftops with AR-15s.
There are plenty of wiggers in America who will join in the mayhem. They should be dealt with as the law prescribes, along with the blacks. If your pants are below your crotch, you are covered in tattoos and piercings, and you are within 5 blocks of a crime, I say arrest you, and throw away the key.
But to say that it is white culture at fault is simply stupid. In 1964, My father had no lock on his door in Brooklyn, NY, hardly a garden spot even then. By 1968, it was a barren, burnt out ghost town. Does anyone here want to argue these rioters were white people? The worst part was, they didn’t burn out white neighborhoods, they destroyed black ones. None of those areas ever recovered, until noone could even live there anymore, and they “gentrified”, meaning turned yuppie, white and black professionals, together. Just no poor blacks.
It all sucks, but let’s not deceive ourselves. Coddling scum leads to more scum, and now we have a bumper crop.
And Maxine Waters is raising up the rabble again. She should be hanged, the criminal.
H’m — that’s not accurate, is it? The riots in London were much more “racially mixed” than the riots in the USA, for example. Theodore Dalrymple, who should know, having been a physician in poor neighborhoods in Britain for 30 years, notes in many of his books that while some racial / cultural / assimilation issues are important, the underclass in Britain is mostly white. It’s failed social policies, not racial issues.
Read Winston Smith’s blog: winstonsmith33.blogspot.com He’s a social worker who has spent a lot of time with disadvantaged youth, the ones who did the bulk of the rioting and looting. The moral underpinnings of English society are rotten. Out of wedlock births are the norm, drunkenness is rampant, and entitlement is taken for granted. It’s bad, really really bad.
You might also want to read “A History of Murder” by Colin Wilson, specifically the chapter titled “The Age of Gin”. Out-of-wedlock births and drunkenness were rampant then, too; the gin sellers’ slogan was “Drunk for a penny, dead drunk for twopence, clean straw provided”.
What was not often seen was rioting, of any sort. The difference seems to be that back then, there was no sense of “entitlement” involved.
cheers
eon
eon,
The difference being no sense of intitlement then…
Of course you are spot-on.
Isnt it marvelous how simple things actually are?
I think he summed up the dilemma quite well with:
“enforce the law and let violators suffer the consequences”
vs. “Lock people up…We haven’t got the heart for that…”
Amazing how this simple acid test fails the minds of so many “educated” people.
You often go to great length in comments, bringing clear and irrefutable evidence with instantly available citations (a courtesy I most often lack in my pathetically angry rants!) to further buttress that which should already be “painfully obvious” to anyone, and people STILL dont get it.
I havent the patience to smash my head so eloquently as you, against the “walls of failed policy”.
You sir, would be a quite Convincing, Reasonable and Effective Leader, should you be so inclined.
Whereas I would succumb to the simple temptation of mass graves for the “non-belivers”
Carry on.
No, the Brits of old knew that looting and rioting would entitle them to a bullet or the noose, right quick. Human behavior is simple if you keep your eye on the actions and ignore the rationalizations. That is: men will be as good as they have to be, and as bad as they can get away with. Unlike the delusions of the Enlightenment or the fantasies of the Romantics, this is the essential distillation of all human history.
There is a few Bible verses that will apply here,”The nations that forget their God, I will cast into Hell”..This is just a prelude to what is coming to the USA, unless we repent from our evil ways, and ask Holy God to forgive USA of her national sins, such as abortion, Sexual pervertions, sodomy, gay and homo acceptance, as if it is a normal ”other” lifestyle….it reeks to high heaven….It is a syench in the Nostrils of a Holy God….Usa and Great britan, turn from your evil ways….thank you….jimi
Are you the same people who protest and say sick things at Soldiers’ funerals?
Another very good source of insight into the decay in Britain is Theodore Dalrymple (who also writes under his real name, Anthony Daniels). Dalrymple has been writing columns about the state of Britain for nearly 20 years now and was writing books before that.
Unlike most other columnists though, Dalrymple/Daniels writes from extensive firsthand experience. He spent twenty years as a doctor working in an inner city hospital and also at a prison just a few yards up the road. He’s also travelled to some 80 countries, sometimes when they in the midst of civil wars. He knows the inner cities as well as any man alive and he’s not afraid to tell you what they’re really like, as opposed to what the people in the ivory towers think about them.
You can, of course, simply Google him and/or buy his various books. Another place to get access to all or most of his writing is http://blog.skepticaldoctor.com/, which is a site constructed by fans to try to consolidate his work.
A very good place to start with is this one: http://www.city-journal.org/author_index.php?author=47. It’s a list of all his City Journal articles since 1994. The oldest ones tend to be long but are very VERY good. If you read them, you’ll see that things started going downhill in England long before the recent riots. The riots themselves are the almost inevitable outcome of the rot in English society as the elites convinced them to adopt leftist philosophies.
Mr. Dunphy, I had the pleasure of visiting England in the early 90′s, and like you I sought out the England of my dreams. It was still there, at least back then, in the countryside and cathedral cities. Durham was breathtaking and made me ache with a kind of homesickness for a place I had never been before. It is tempting to say that one’s ancestral home is in the blood, but that would be ridiculous.
At that time I was not so conscious of the cultural rot that was taking hold of the west, but there was one incident that should have clued me in. Spending time at Sunderland University, I made friends with a number of middle class students. Having never seen the North Sea, they offered to walk me down to one of the local beaches. The walk was pleasant, but part of it went through the questionable neighborhood of Hinden. There were 100ft cliffs just above the beach, which was covered with what appeared to be moraine. Suddenly one of my friends suggested we return home since it would be unsafe to remain at the beach or walk back through Hinden after a certain time. I asked why and was informed that gangs of youths (ten year olds) would toss stones down from the cliff-tops at us if they knew we were there, or attempt to beat us up as we walked back through Hinden.
I scoffed and tossed a golf ball sized chunk of granite against the cliff wall, shattering it ( I used to pitch baseball and still had a good arm back then). I told them I could toss stones too, and if they accosted us passing back through Hinden we should pick switches and light the little tikes up. Oh no, they told me, they would just go and get their older siblings to come to their aid. At this point I began losing my temper and said that switches could put stripes on the older ones as well as the younger. My two friends, both 20 something males in good shape, began rolling their eyes and giving each other knowing looks. I got the distinct feeling they were less worried about gangs of bullies than about the barbaric american who was willing to stand up for himself. When I threw the stone against the cliff wall they reacted as if I were Rambo waving two M-60′s around. They were literally unwilling to lift a finger to defend themselves. We went back early.
I came away from that incident with the distinct impression that in many ways the middle class English have become herds of sheep.
From what I gather, having read lots of British newspapers, if you had defended yourself, YOU would have been the one in trouble. The youths have their rights don’t you know.
I am aware of that, but as we say here in the states ” It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6″.
Even a modest sized stone from the top of those cliffs would have killed or maimed us.
“I came away from that incident with the distinct impression that in many ways the middle class English have become herds of sheep.”
That was intentional. 70 years of labour party rule put into place a system much like our own with discipline being the first casualty in the classrooms. They were also intentionally cut off from their own past. Britons today do not know who Wellington or Churchill are nor have they ever heard about Trafalgar or Waterloo.
“My two friends, both 20 something males in good shape, began rolling their eyes and giving each other knowing looks.”
Just 3 of you, and you thought you could stand up to an entire gang?
No wonder they were more worried about you than about the gang.
PS: after reading JW’s comment at #10, I wish to qualify that:
Of course if you are faced by a gang, you should stand your ground if you think there is a fair chance of them backing away. (or of being beaten up.)
And if you see them knock down an old lady, you have a moral right to apply Mongol methods to them, as far as I am concerned.
However, neither of the above applied to you (Suthenboy) according to your own report.
In your case, Sun Tzu’s advice becomes applicable:
Know your enemy, know yourself, and in a hundred battles you shall never be defeated.
Showing your back to a predator is an invitation for attack.
I take note that this reply was written before my PS appeared.
All the same, I’d like to add that I never said that you should show you back. Quite the contrary: I said you should never put yourself in a position where you might consider showing your back.
If you have not read Sun Tzu, I advise doing so. Also the Sagas of Icelanders.
Or you could start more modestly with my review of High Noon:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044706/reviews-175
I once watched a drunk redneck run off a gang of 5 or 6 Hispanic teenagers.
I didn’t offer to help him. He didn’t need the help, and it was fun to watch.
Cowards die a thousand deaths, and bring ruin on those around them, as well.
Yes, you can stand up to a whole gang. You may fall, but getting beaten or killed standing on your feet is preferable to being beaten or killed lying down. The way they talked, we would be accosted for certain, so it was a simple choice as to how we chose to go down. I will always choose to take some with me if I can. Fortunately we didnt have to make that choice.
Were the same situation to occur here in my home parish, it would be intolerable to the vast majority of the residents. There would be a community wide pressure on law enforcement to put an end to it. This is one of the few places left in the country where you still regularly see people riding around with guns on racks in their vehicles. If you run into someone in the woods, you can bet that not only are they armed, but that they will be exceedingly polite.
“The way they talked, we would be accosted for certain, so it was a simple choice as to how we chose to go down.”
Maybe I misunderstood you. I thought that the choice was between getting exposed to stoning from higher ground, with the prospective of a fight against a gang of unknown size afterwards; vs. walking away before anyone knows you were there in the first place.
The way I understood it, the choice is a no-brainer.
“Fortunately we didnt have to make that choice.”
Again, I understood that you (or your friends) CHOSE not to have to make the choice.
“Were the same situation to occur here in my home parish, it would be intolerable to the vast majority of the residents. There would be a community wide pressure on law enforcement to put an end to it.”
Which is as it should be.
Apologies for posting 2x in a row but I forgot to add what my Grandaddy used to say;
“You cant blame a wolf for being a wolf. You still have to shoot the wolf, but you blame the sheep for feeding him.”
People today don’t have a clue as to how horrible a time the British people had during World War II and the losses England sustained during the Battle of Britain, especially during the London Blitz. Thousands, yes thousands, of English people were lost, yet they took it. They stood up to a fascist megalomaniac for the simple reason that it was the right thing to do. Who knows what would have happened to the world if they had just given up, if they decided to just give in because the work before them was just too hard. Who knows what the map of Europe would have looked like and how many more would have died in the concentration camps if Britain had just taken the easy way out and tamely submitted to the greatest evil the world has ever known.
But the British did not give in. They knew it was going to be rough and they certainly were not assured of victory. Yet the tough moral fiber of the British nation was tested and was found to be unbreakable. They were remarkable people, and yet they did all this (not to mention eventually going on the offensive and actually defeating Germany) with quiet determination and backbones of steel.
And what of today’s generation in England? The scum that rioted on those streets were worse than the Brown Shirts that terrorized Germany during the 1930s. At least the Brown Shirts actually had a reason for what they were doing, crazy as it was. But the senseless destruction that took place in London recently was pure evil, the kind of mayhem you only see in a society that is falling apart.
So I wonder what the few survivors of World War II are thinking about right now? Are they thinking, “Was this what we fought and sacrificed for? Is this how it all turns out when you save a nation and the people in that nation know nothing about real hardship and horrendous sacrifice?”
At this stage of the game, seeing those thugs and criminals rampaging throughout England, I sit here at home and begin to wonder, “who really did win the war?”
My parents survived the blitz and the doodlebugs and the V2s and the rationing not just during the war but for ten years afterwards. Many years later, I realized that one of my core beliefs, that we are all in this together, was the result of the ethos that prevailed during my childhood. If anyone complained, they were reminded, “There’s a war on, you know.” They are both dead now and I am glad. It would have broken their hearts to see the streets they knew so well given over to looters and sneering scum.
My parents were unfortunate enough to live when the hinge of history was opening up to a world in which nation states had exhausted their potential to improve their citizens lot. An homogeneous nation can work and think in harmony because everyone understands the unwritten rules. But, as we saw in Nazi Germany, such cohesive thinking can go terribly wrong.
So, to your question about who really won the war, I’d say that it wasn’t the war that was lost but the peace. The day of the nation state is over. What is being fought out now, in many and varied theatres, is what kind of economic system provides the best opportunities for the people. The rioters in England have been denied opportunity because they were given something for nothing. Those who would reward illegal aliens want to do the same thing. People are not pets to be cosseted and protected from life. Ask those who have been given a real chance to improve their lot and see what sturdy and self-reliant characters and attitudes they have.
I mourn for my country and what was – but not for long. The future beckons.
“What is being fought out now, in many and varied theatres, is what kind of economic system provides the best opportunities for the people. The rioters in England have been denied opportunity because they were given something for nothing. Those who would reward illegal aliens want to do the same thing. People are not pets to be cosseted and protected from life. Ask those who have been given a real chance to improve their lot and see what sturdy and self-reliant characters and attitudes they have.”
Anglo-Saxon, I think you are absolutely correct. A similar war of ideas is playing out in the U.S. I was born in the middle of WWII, so I’m not exactly a baby boomer, but I remember when the boomer generation burst onto the scene with all their demands. They were the generation who believed you don’t have to earn anything in life, you are simply entitled. And it is very significant that they were raised by the generation of Americans who fought in WWII, in Europe and the Pacific. It was the so-called “greatest” generation who cossetted and protected their children, and so produced a generation of narcissists.
As you say, it was the greatest generation who produced the baby boomers and for the “best” of reasons – to give their children what they themselves had been denied.
That impulse was played out within the post-war context in which all the underlying realities of the past 100 years were changing. Sometimes I see the years after the war and before 9/11, to use an art history term, as a Mannerist period – distorted proportion and great sensibility relying on an anatomy only occasionally acknowledged. If that is a valid perception, a Baroque period of tremendous achievement and belief is in the offing – if we want it.
Interesting. I hope you’re right about the future. I’m looking forward to reading more of your comments.
Prologue,
“It was the so-called “greatest” generation who cossetted and protected their children, and so produced a generation of narcissists”
Yes and no.
Dad gave is more than he had, out of love and thankfulness.
He was not a Social Planner, a great Foreward Thinker cobbling together his version of what the Future Ought To Be. He was just a man, moving through life after fighting in the greatest war ever known.
He did it on the fly, day by day, as best he could.
The Lucky Ones learned to see through the “comfortable” suburban lives we had, and realize where it came from. Like the subtle shadows of those anchors and crossed rifles on his arms, the ones slightly visible through his dress shirt on a Sunday at church, we knew there was more to Dad than swing sets and little league.
We shined our shoes…before going to school, to church, or to the Library. Dad tucked in his shirt, wore a belt, and made us too. Not because we were snobs, or rich, or attractive or vain. But because we were humble.
“Nice clothes”, the ones you wore when you ventured out….You respected the places you went, not vice versa.
And you kept them cleean, because we couldnt afford to “ruin” them
We were Lucky too, in that the first weird, unkempt Socialists Teachers we encountered were so much NOT like Dad. It was strange to us, seeing adults with uncombed hair. Sagging pants full of wrinkles, thread-bare sweaters, long sideburns, sneakers.
In public. In SCHOOL.
Life was easy, and life was hard.Ice cream and TV, expectations and discipline.
Fun, and punishment.Brand new Cub Scouts uniforms on Monday night,
and cold dinner for breakfast Tuesday morning if we didnt eat what Mom made.
Try as the might, for some of us, the Socialist were never able to turn our suburban lives into a full-on “oppression” that needed to be condemned, opposed, and thrown off. They never made us feel ‘owed” or “entitled” or “angry” about anything in our lives, our country, our faith or our parents.
They were physically of shape, and strangely animated when they spoke. Creepy, and a little uncomfortable to be around. Always excited, and without reason it seemed, verses the quiet seriousness of Dad cutting lumber, or carrying a ladder, or loads of sheetrock, sweating and grunting, telling to “stay out of the way”, as he built a deck or bedroom onto our house, on his few precious “days off”.
Dad, who would change into better clothes, just to walk to the hardware store for more nails….embarrassed it seems, to be viewed as “some tattooed workman” on Main Street of a white collar town, on a Sunday no less.
What would the neighbors think.
It never would have embarrassed me, but memory of him valuing the perception others had of his “station” still raised a lump in my throat, 45 years later.
Yes, Dad gave us more than he ever had.
And some of us, the Lucy Ones, realize HE felt it was not enough.
I dont remember specifically who it was, but someone was interviewing rioters during the riots. He asked two young girls to explain themselves and their behavior. They had broken into a liquor store and were quite drunk, then into a clothing store and loaded up on free attire.
One of the girls gave a telling confession; ” We are here to show the cops we can do what we want.”
What they want huh? They were showing us what they want; rampant, unrestrained barbarism. It was a party for them, not a political protest.
I’m not a British history expert, but from what I read it sounds like the mid-century went something like this:
1. Labour Party in charge, starts building the permanent Welfare State.
2. World War II happens, Conservative Churchill in charge, Labour takes a break.
3. World War II over, Conservative Churchill out, Labour party back in charge, continues building the permanent Welfare State.
The impression I get is that the Brits WANTED their entitlements. The welfare state wasn’t foisted on them by a bunch of out-of-control socialist elites. They saw it as Progress. Churchill was fine for getting them through the war. He was a fighter, not a social engineer. When the crisis was over, when a fighter was no longer needed, he got dumped and the Brits resumed their march toward Utopia.
I don’t think Britons have a problem with the fundamental principles of the Welfare State. They love the idea. What they don’t like is the unforeseen consequences.
YES! Don’t feel sorry for them. Point, laugh, and learn.
Mark Steyn was right – it’s America alone.
Bugs,
“They love (the welfare state). What they don’t like is the unforeseen consequences”
Like that its 100% doomed to fail…
Other than thats, its great, aint it!
For what it’s worth, there’s no way Britain, in the modern world, could have continued being controlled by the entrenched power and interests of the nobility and “old money” represented by the Conservatives. Labour really did fight against that obsolescent system, and tore it down, and won. The occasional Conservative might become PM, but the Labour agenda keeps rolling along through inertia. The old-fashioned British society some commenters lament has been gone for years, never to return. Labour destroyed it. At best, it lingered in the culture for a couple of decades by habit. Unfortunately, Labour put something more dysfunctional in its place – a sort of anarchy funded by the Government. And I think most people in Britain believe what they have now, for all its faults, is still better than the fusty old repressive system it replaced.
Good points…
And to be fair, they DID still have some pretty severe rationing even AFTER they won the war,
not the usual state of a Victor.
Bled dry, people have a right to expect some measure of stability and oversight from their Government….
after all who really has time to police their own streets at night after working all day?
But what they have morphed into now is an abbreration. Little Shariah courts, open advocates of terrorism getting fat on the Dole, and a fully disarmed populace that can be prosecuted for any act of self-defense, and subject to “hate speech” laws for simply telling the truth.
Frightening that some elitists here STILL think the Euro model is worthy of much more than a sad kind of contempt.
Utterly frightening
“who really did win the war?”
Considering the fact that Hitler was a socialist, and socialism has taken over not just Britain, but the whole of Europe and now the US, I guess we can revisit the assumption that we won. The anti-Semitism of our socialist would-be masters is Exhibit A.
The nice / stupid socialists teamed up with the totalitarian socialist to beat the anti-Semitic / national socialist.
The problem for the political class is that they were revealed as a bunch of expense account troughers of a high order and a bare handful have been to court to receive justice for fraud. Blair lied and spun outrageously particularly in the run up to the Iraq invasion yet has made a fortune out of speaking post office. Brown’s delusions brought the country to the financial brink over which we still totter. Local authority chiefs of small and obscure places routinely earn double the prime minister’s salary, and if incompetent and unseated receive golden payoffs. Billions have been wasted on IT projects and poor military tendering for which no public servant has been held to account. Blair intervened to stop a corruption into arms trade with Saudi Arabia. Brown bailed out failed banks yet allowed the banksters the same greedy bonuses under state ownership that had inspired the financial blackhole; unlike the US no banker has faced anything worse than early retirement on a huge pension. Cameron’s family and the BBC pension fund gain hugely from investments in wind power which is currently adding 18% and rising to the ordinary citizen and business’s energy bill. With such conspicuously slippery ethics, the political class is not in a position to improve the morals of its underclasses.
Theodore Dalrymple, who was working in the National Health Service at the time as a doctor, wrote about another horror perpetrated by the Labour government in Britain. He said that the Labour government accomplished a very substantial decrease in the official unemployment rate by simply reclassifying large numbers of perfectly healthy people as permanently unemployable due to illness.
Quite a brilliant solution if you think about it. Since these people weren’t actually sick, they won’t increase the costs of the National Health Service – at least for the short term; anyone can get sick eventually – and they simultaneously make the government look like it is getting people to work or at least get off the dole.
Dalrymple mentioned fellow doctors getting strongarmed by bureaucrats to reclassify healthy people as sick in order to accomplish this measure.
Great is as great does. Greece is a third-world jerkwater republic today, and what Pericles and Leonidas did back in the day doesn’t change that a whit. Similarly, England has lost its “great nation” cred decisively; let’s put that honorific in its final resting place.
It’s not just England that is dying; all of Europe is. The Europeans have grown soft, weak, and cowardly. They suffer from cultural guilt at having established a culture that dominates the world even today. They agonize over political correctness and cultural relativism. They, like us, forgive behaviors of their protected minorities that native Brits could never get away with. Is this really the continent that gave us the Vikings, Charlemagne, Richard the Lionheart, Lord Wellington, Napoleon, Churchill, Henry V, El Cid, Edward the Black Prince and thousands of other warriors who were confident and proud of their countries and culture? They would all be disgusted and ashamed at the state of Europe today.
My Grandmother worked in London during WWII organizing fire departments during the blitz. She’s dead now, and I’m glad she didn’t live to see this.
I visited London in 1980 while in the Navy. Three of us traveled through the underground while there (and yes, it made the scene from the tube in the film An American Werewolf in London seem all the creepier). We stepped off the train, and were working our way out to the street, a gang of 6 or 7 guys, dressed up like punk rockers, were traveling through the halls, harassing folks trying to just get home. They knocked one old lady down…made sexual innuendos at two unfortunate girls.
And nobody did anything. Not a word of protest. No security was present.
The three of us, all sailors and no strangers to trouble (and bullies), stopped at a choke point leading out a tunnel. We made them walk around us. Those guys got completely quiet and acted like their Mom’s had just shown up. They moved around us (mostly looking at their feet), and made their way down the curved tunnel. We didn’t hear a peep from them until they were well around the corner.
I told this story to a friend who lives in England (not London), about two weeks before the riots. Her reaction was surprising. She said: “That’s quite a story. I’ve never seen that sort of thing. I LOVE London.”
Denial. I just let it go. I don’t like being called a liar, but hey. It’s YOUR country. Keep looking the other way and see what happens.
And then it did.
I saw the same thing happening in New York City during the mid 1970s to mid 1980s because of liberal politicians and how they direct their law enforcement. It was a toilet. Then the adults got in charge and cleaned it up.
A British friend who emigrated to the US and took US Citizenship in the 1980s, commented that he was astounded at how much safer and less violent it was in US small towns, and that even in most areas of the cities, it was safer.
In rural British towns, decent people flee from the streets at pub closing time, because of the danger. I’ve never even heard of that in the US.
It is not just the English who have surrendered their security and safety to the barbarians. Reading the Philadelphia newspapers after the flash mob riots which targeted white people who were beat and robbed by the black mobs, it was astonishing to read that the majority of the white people who were attacked came to the defense of their attackers. These privileged middle class whites have been conditioned to accept violent behaviour from blacks. This is done in their educational years when all they hear about is how wicked white people are and how virtuous black people are. In effect the white people both in England and America have been rendered eunuchs who accept their fate with the idea that they are virtuous for not wanting to defend themselves or their families.
And if you dare speak up about the violence or behavior of these “flash robbers” you are branded a racist or a hater by the apologist newspaper columnists.
I don’t like what these kids are doing, so that makes me a “hater?” Can someone explain that to me?
As usual, not just one but a number of factors have brought England to this pass, and I mention some of them below.
Chief among them, and not usually mentioned in comments here, is the fact that the upper classes—the aristocracy and gentry–that had, more often than not, been the tip of the spear during England’s rise to Empire, and then a stabilizing force enforcing traditional morality—such as it was—were basically destroyed by the horrendous losses that England suffered in WWI which more than decimated these classes and, then, more than decimated their remnants and descendents again in WWII. The whole stabilizing force, value system, and leadership of the traditional upper class and gentry were just stripped out of England, and realistically speaking, as compared to those running England prior to WWI, those in power now are the B or perhaps even the C team.
The change from a largely rural economy to an industrial one changed employment patterns and demographics, with people moving form rural employment on farms and estates to city life and employment in offices and factories and, combined with the Socialist attack–via the tax system–against the aristocracy and landed gentry, basically wiped out the great houses and estates that were the sustaining base for these classes and their culture and values as well.
Loss of Empire dealt England a massive wound, then allowing free immigration of millions of immigrants from the former Commonwealth, and the relinquishment of sovereignty involved in joining the EU made everything decisively worse, and allowing the immigration of comparatively massive numbers of unassimilable and hostile Muslims, bent on subverting, rolling back and marginalizing English law and culture and, eventually, conquering the UK for Islam, has been a fatal compounding error.
The deadly virus of Socialism pervaded every aspect of life in the UK and, has both bankrupted the government and led to the rise of an amoral entitlement culture.
In sum, the Gramscian attack against bourgeois society has succeeded wonderfully well in the UK, and particularly well in England, and a major part of that success is in the field of religion, values and ethics; exhibit number one, the current Archbishop of Canterbury. Moreover, the destruction of tradition and ethics and values, the neutering of religion, the learned disdain for past history and heritage, and the substitution of political correctness and multiculturalism in their place has lead to—among many other pernicious developments—the collapse of the absolutely essential keystone of democracy and freedom –private property—thus, squatters who cannot be removed, and the prosecution of homeowners who dare to use force to protect themselves, their families, and their property; all part and parcel of the totally wrong-headed, emasculated, flaccid view of and policing strategy for dealing with crime and violence now in place.
Actually, given all that has happened so far, I am surprised that people aren’t already being killed, roasted, and sold as shish kebab in downtown London.
“Actually, given all that has happened so far, I am surprised that people aren’t already being killed, roasted, and sold as shish kebab in downtown London.”
Oh, I don’t know. It won’t be long before the nanny state train goes over the cliff(s of Dover)then all kinds of hell will erupt from those entitled and enraged. Over there.
Then over here.
I think what happened in England and what happened in Norway was similar, except London was more mob driven, but it was Whites against the coloureds on welfare sucking western nations dry. If you look at what’s happening in Palmdale and Lancaster, CA with Section 8 “knock & notice”s, you get the feeling that whites are trying to drive away the coloureds.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-sheriff-investigation-20110820,0,860130.story (article here)
This social experiment of helping those less fortunate has come to an end, and I think whites just want the coloureds out.
I’m from Lancaster, and I want these black Section 8 thug lovin’ Lil Wayne listenin’ mofos out of my community, does this make me racist? I just want a safe environment for my kids and if that means shutting down one Section 8 house one day at a time, then I’m for it.
They should send all the Section 8s up north near the Oregon border, Jefferson country. That way, they’ll be surrounded by real no-none sense Whites, hence these Section 8s will have no choice but to behave themselves–existential threat is a great motivator for good behaviour.
If you drive around Palmdale/Lancaster, it’s very easy to spot a Section 8 house on the westside (the good side of town). Dead grass, trash, broken doors, unsupervised kids, people coming and going all hours of the night, loud music, see the pattern? Why would you stick a Section 8 family in a good neighborhood? Makes no sense at all.
If it makes no sense to you, you obviously don’t understand the bigger game plan. You probably think Obama is incompetent, right?
It makes perfectly good sense. It fact, it’s brilliant.
Read Marx if you don’t understand.
Koreans would’ve stood up and taken up arms. Koreans in American, although they don’t bother to learn to speak English, are ALL Republican Tea-Party’ers and believe in Capitalism and Christianity. One could argue that South Central LA didn’t spread in the 92 riots, precisely because Koreans stood up and took arms and USED them.
If anyone’s ever been to Korea, Koreans love to fight. You see streetfights by vendors, busnessmen, thugs, taxi drivers all sorts of kinds every other block in Korea. There’s order in Korea because people are willing to stand up for themselves.
not entirely true– although i concur with the feistiness and other positive traits the “all are republicans/tea-partiers” is misleading
i am happily married to a korean and although most, if not all, of my korean relatives are self-sufficient and dont want to get into anyone’s business there is a strong likelihood that the children of the 1st generation immigrants are democrats
many asian cultures put a huge emphasis on schooling and respecting of elders/authorities (see the warning flags yet?)
when these kids enter the public school system they are eager to please the teacher/system— this leads to a default position of “lib” and an unflinching loyalty to the authoritarians
almost all of my wife’s cousins graduated high school and went to berkeley or ucla and later went on to other ultra-lib propaganda mills for graduate study (only because of the false assumption that these schools are “the best”)
the only positions they have ever been exposed to is the progressive–
also, most of the korean television outlets are modeled after main stream media and are quick to adopt the same talking points
Institutions of higher learning is probably the problem here, not the Korean “up bringing”, same type of up-bringing in Korea and kids there are using their Tae Kwon Do on the streets.
Do you know what works, and will work when it is tried? Kent State!
I hope your IP address is recorded, because you’ve just made a terrorist threat online.
how is that a terrorist threat?
Kent State massacre?
“Hello, McFly?”
right back at ya
how does oldguy’s comment imply an online terrorist threat?
I still say you cannot call four deaths a massacre.
Horse Hockey.
However, it’s likely the Feds are monitoring conservative sites, tracking commentators (bitter clingers) who don’t kneel at the altar of The One’s We’ve Been Waiting For.
Tax paying great unwashed, white grannies and toddlers of the world are the REAL terrorists, according to Jan Napalitano and the brown shirts…or haven’t you heard?
See ya’ someday on the trumbrels…
Terrorist threat? It’s a terrorist threat to suggest that the government should use force? That government troops might fire when fired upon?
Actually Kent State was a screwup by the Guard who were untrained, and were issued ammunition against DOD policy. But I wouldn’t have batted an eye if they had killed a hundred commies with the bayonet.
“We’re police officers! We’re not trained to handle this kind of violence!”–Erwin, ‘Demolition Man’
Glad you brought that up. Notice that in the utopian “San Angeles” of the future, the poor and anti-social are considered to be that way by choice? They aren’t victims of society or Capitalism – they’re rebels who refuse to live like well-fed sheep under the Cocteau plan. Is it possible that many of the “disaffected youth” of London feel the same way?
The only type of societies and goverments today that will guarantee no riots like London and Los Angeles is a Saudi Arabia or Iran type system (yup theocracy!)
Maybe you people want an Evangelist/Televangelist America, but I’d rather experience riots now and then, than have to live under a religious state.
freeDUMB isn’t FREE, dumbasses! i’m retired and have Hemorrhoids and i got nothing better to do than type pajamas media comments all day long, should’ve invested my money better.
LOLz, now you’re too old to riot. How’s that good citizenship doing for ya, old man?
PinHead!
So now “No to Perry 2012 !!!” plays the Left’s new “Christian Dominion” card i.e. Republican candidates are “Trojan horses,” planning to get into office and then impose a Christian theocracy on America, a card which has been recently played against both Perry and Bachmann.
Funny, how those on the Left always ‘project,” attributing to their opponents all the motives and ways of thinking that they themselves posses and have acted on i.e. the learned and brilliant, post-racial, centrist, uniter, “enlightened being,” “light-worker,” and supposed “Christian” Barack Hussain Obama very craftily takes advantage of white America’s self-imposed guilt trip concerning Blacks, spouts some mindless slogans, gets into office, and then immediately sucks up to every Muslim and Muslim theocracy/thugocracy in the World, and puts into action a far Left plan to destroy the Capitalist economy and to drive America toward Socialism/Marxism, and the Constitution be damned.
As far as I am concerned, this “Christian Dominion” idea is just a bunch of crap, just one of a thousand baseless charges that the Left is throwing against the wall, hoping that some of them will stick.
If it works in KSA and Iran, don’t knock it. Theocracy is crazy, just like Climate Change and the Social Security benefits you and your daddy are enjoying. Bachmann and Perry 2012!!! Palin for Dept. of State.
The fatuity of this comment can be seen by the fact that there are quite violent riots in Iran.
The plain fact is that no regime can GUARANTEE no riots.
Some forms of governments, however, decrease the likelihood of riots, and these ain’t theocracies.
In fact, England and California are riot-prone exactly because they are a-theocracies.
Others may disagree but another, what seems to me, major factor in bringing the UK and especially England to this sorry pass, has been the Monarchy.
It is true that in terms of political power—especially when compared to the days of Elizabeth I or Victoria—it seems as though the Monarchy has declined nearly to the point of irrelevance; but had the House of Windsor (before WWI officially called by the very German name of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha) proved stronger and wiser, their political role could have been much greater today, and the House of Windsor might have been a very useful moderating and stabilizing force with some actual power at its disposal.
My focus, though, is on the Monarchy as a role model of behavior for the UK and England, and in that capacity the “Royals” in general have turned into a largely dysfunctional joke, a Monty Python movie or perhaps “Fawlty Towers,” with whining Princess Diana and her Muslim lover, the eccentric and not too bright presumptive heir to the throne, Charles, Prince of Wales, wanting to be “Camilla’s tampon,” writing of the need for a “Revolution” against science and the technological society of the West, and speculations—based on his statements and actions—that he may be a secret convert to Islam, and the other lesser Royals, involved in other hare-brained conduct that ends up in the tabloids; aside from the current Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Phillip, many Royals are apparently in the vanguard of the headlong charge towards ennui, loss of agency, and decadence. From what I can observe, with the exception of Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Phillip, this current lot of Royals has not served England well.
You, mofo, you just saw Russell Crowe’s “Robin Hood”, huh?
If there be a theocracy in the States, I wish it be Scientology, because I’m a fan of aliens.
Do you think your sock-puppeting is clever?
Thank you again Mr. Dunphy, an excellent article from a man who has walked the walk. I fear for our city and country. We work with abused and neglected children, and one of the first things I try to teach and exemplify (not always with success) is a moral compass. A lot of my mental health coworkers rarely use such terms as morality, values or common decency. Such things are ‘relative,’ you see. In order to keep my job I basically have to preface such remarks as belonging to my values rather than values we should all live by. ‘Values…’ what a strange concept.
Just after the riots (which didn’t affect me or anyone I know very much)I had the honour of taking my parents (83 and 89)to Norway to see their eldest grandson married to a beautiful Norwegian girl. Dad had been to Norway before in a plane several times but never landed,that’s another story. Apart from the over whelming warmth of welcome from our new family the thing that impressed Dad the most was how almost every house in Norway seemed to fly the national flag. I know this is fairly common in the states and Canada but we British seem to be ashamed to fly our national flag.
As a nation I don’t think we like each other very much. I don’t know why,we are not the worst people in the world but some point seems to have been reached and further decline seems inevitable. The most intelligent seem to be able to get out and live abroad. It might be too late for me or my parents but I know I will encourage my son to go west.
More common, I think, in Canada than in the US. I was in Nova Scotia for Canada Day, and there seemed to be Canadian flags everywere. Here in the states, we have so many “sophisticated” people who “don’t need to express their patriotism by waving a flag.” Canadians don’t seem to be that ashamed of themselves.
You should see how many Southerners fly the Stars and Bars. Now that’s pride.
If you guys only know how many LAPD and Sheriff’s officers have a Southern (Stars and Bars) Confederate flag at home, you’d cry.
Jack:
While I was on the LAPD and a veteran of the 1965 Watts Riot, I visited England for the first time in 1981. I made several good friends on the local police departments in Yorkshire. There, the big crime problem stemmed from Muslims and it is even worse now. At the time I was there, rioting broke out in Liverpool over some labor issue, as I recall. Watching the TV coverage made me sick to my stomach. Seeing police officers being attacked with fire bombs and other forms of deadly weapons, I wondered why the cops took that punishment and did not retaliate? My friend, who was a Sgt., took me to his station and showed me around. None of the officers were armed and the station armory consisted of ONE 12 guage shotgun! My point is, as long as those who will riot know that the police (and the citizens as well) will not defend against deadly force with deadly force, they will not succeed in quelling riots. As you may recall during the Rodney King riots, the only real resistance to looting and theft came from Korean businessmen who defended their property with firearms. In my book, the key to keeping things under control is the ability to satuate the area with cops (and England has lot of them) and apply maximum pressure with all the tools that are available at the first outbreak. This is the same mistake that LAPD made in both 1965 and the King Riot. It seems to me there are many non-lethal tools to use and deadly force should be met with equal force. England is in for more of the same and I fear that the same things are bubbling up in our country as well.
There is more to this it seems…
“Nothing happened, however, until two days after the shooting, on August 6, when a “peaceful protest march” of 200 people ending at Tottenham police station was organized by Duggan’s “friends and family.” The crowd grew larger at dusk as people with weapons joined the group. Violence broke out, allegedly over a rumor that police had attacked a 16-year-old girl, and police vehicles were set afire. From there everything quickly spread.
Duggan was an alleged drug dealer and member of North London’s Star Gang. He was also the nephew-by-marriage of Irish gangster Desmond Noonan of Manchester, England, who was stabbed to death in 2005. The Noonans are a large clan regarded as one of the most notorious organized crime families in English history.”
I don’t agree with the political views of the site where I got this quote from, but given the obviously organised nature of the riots(and what kind of people are involved), it’s not a big surprise. The link is somewhat not safe for work, but if only 50% of what they claim is true, it’s quite a story:
http://www.counter-currents.com/2011/08/more-on-the-white-rioters-in-england/
This story should be looked at a bit closer to check if it has legs — if it does, then it’s too important to be left to the tinfoil hat brigade.
You conservatives, think you got it all figured out, spouting your Chicken Little, the world is gonna end, mumbo jumbo.
When in fact it was the “liberals” who quickly moved in to clean up and set out establishing the community’s presence amidst criminals and looters in London. Yes it was the liberals who went outside to clean up, not the gun totting conservatives, wanting to fight fire with fire.
Los Angeles is fast becoming a sanctuary for young urban professionals, yes more Democrats and liberals near and around downtown LA, Venice, etc, and they are responsible now for interacting with, being neighbors and helping non-Whites in the city of L.A. Look at Echo Park and Oakwood area of Venice, property goes up and less crime.
While LAPD cops, working their 10 hour shifts, drive around and then go home to suburbia to enjoy their material wealth and maybe go off-roading, play golf, maybe take a trip to Wisconsin, it is the liberals in L.A. making a difference, by interfacing with people at a personal level.
Conservatives like to carry guns and complain and spout conspiracy theories, while the Liberals are the ones actually making a difference time and time again, creating instead of destroying. Remember civility begets civility and fire more fire.
Obama created Universal Health Care, and now they want to destroy it. Hell, they want to destroy Medicare and Social Security too!!!
You want to save money? Save Social Security and Medicare, but mandate the recipients to use the funds outside the US, like Cuba, Philippines, Thailand or Brazil (all known for above average medical field in the 3rd world).
When you retire and have no funds, go to Mexico, Belize or the Philippines where your Social Security will stretch, thus you live like a millionaire there, whilst saving us taxpayers a lot of money here.
We’ll save billions, while still taking care of our citizens. Instead of the current conservative agenda, which is to cut everyone off. How will my 75 yr old grandma survive? Make her work? This is inhumane!!! But move her to Mexico or Belize or the Philippines (English speaking nations, with already quite a number of American expat retirees), then we get to take care of my grandma and also save for my kids’ future.
I’d go to Vietnam, which is only a hop and a skip away from Thailand. For me, besides the cost of living and inexpensive medical costs, it’s also the frequent sexual encounters in these countries.
In the US, especially if you are single, once you hit 55, you’re not getting laid anymore, period. Sex is really good for your brain, it gets hormones and blood in that organ which help your mind stay healthy.
Many old men (and women) in the US are getting sick, using up Medicare and their Social Security checks, due to not enough or zero sex. We can cut costs drastically.
Our gov’t should be pushing to have our senior citizens to have more sex. If it’s taboo here, then send them to Thailand and Vietnam. It’s a win win no matter how you look at it.
Dude,
Sorry, but there were no “gun-toting conservatives” in the London Riots….
There wouldnt have BEEN any riots if the “gun toters” you imagined present were actually,
in fact, allowed to “tote guns” in the UK.
Since you are completely, factually, legally, demonstrably wrong regarding:
(a) Firearms Ownership in the UK, and
(b) Self defense principals in the UK
(hint: for all practcal purposes, you cant, and, you cant)
We’ll simply dismiss the rest of your drivel as the typical irrational ramblings of a self contradicting liberal, mmmkay?
I mean, if you hate guns so much, Mister Civility,
how do you expect us conservatives to GET shot, like we deserve?
wow…time for some more weed, dude.
Root’s Harshing the Buzz with facts
Where were the militant conservatives (without guns, but wished they could have guns) during the clean-up? Answer: holed up in their houses, too scared to get out (listening to Glen Beck too much), but they’ll say, they were protecting their homes and love ones.
Liberals are the ones, with boots on the ground, that tend to interact with others during trying times, Root. Sorry to school you, but you’re wrong.
Captian Figurative,
I think the “militants” were the ones bashing windows, killing people, and burning stuff…Called “words”, kid have a thing called “meaning”
Get an actual education, or at least log-in some “off cushy-left campus” time, before you label peaceful law abiding folks “militants”
Maybe if you’d acquire some property, beyond the Bong and Ipod I mean, that could be destroyed in a riot, maybe if you had kids you worried about being killed by savages, you’d have a clue.
But you dont, so …you dont.
An Eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind. Instead of arming yourself, why not actually volunteer and help out, be the solution and DO NOT add to the problem.
Fed Fred writes above, “I hope your IP address is recorded, because you’ve just made a terrorist threat online.”
Earth to Fed Fred…come in, Fed Fred! A terrorist threat has just been made against conservatives, of which I am one, and I AM OFFENDED!
Fed Fred? Hellllllloooooooo?
*crickets chirping*
Oh, right…there’s no such thing as “hate speech” being spewed like vomit out of a (compassionate, caring, civil) liberal’s mouth…
Got it.
dude, Fed Fred was like 10 comments up, what are you talking about?!!!
Take a look at #24, ‘dude.’
Willing to wager, whatever it is that you are chewing, smoking or drinking is
illegal. Dry out.
db
With this militant conservatism, I’m starting to think Tom Clancy’s “the Sum of All Fears” will come true. To the real terrorists, when you point, 3 fingers are pointing back at you–So true, so true.
There has never been a conservative terrorist in recorded history of mankind. Conservatives are all about the rule of law. Which is one of the many reasons why liberals hate conservatives. Because upholding the law means that a lot of liberal punks ends up in jail.
Liberals are against enforcing the law in principle. They only want to enforce the laws they like. Conservatives are for upholding the law as a principle. That includes the laws they don’t like.
A conservative would never target civilians directly for military action. First of targeting civilians is disgusting, which every conservative will agree on. The entire purpose of conservative thought is to protect innocent civilians. Which is also the reason for the hard stance on criminals: To protect the innocent against harm. Liberals only want to protect other liberals. As evidenced by the above comment saying that conservatives should be shot. Secondly conservatives know that civilians pose no strategic threat in a battle. And conservatives are all about getting the results. Targeting civilians will never get the results. Quite the contrary actually.
And the so called “right wing” terrorists are not conservatives in any shape or form. They are more a sort of extreme nationalists. If anything they are a crazy version of Libertarianism. I have nothing in common with so called “right wing” terrorists. As a conservative I don’t share a single viewpoint with them.
So you liberals constant crying about conservative terrorist is totally false and just a testament to the fact that liberals have no arguments except lying their asses off.
Two Words: Norway Shooter (76 dead, 268 wounded), Nuff said. Tim McVeigh? etc. etc.
Two words: Dahmer, Manson
Okay, four: Gacy, Bundy
Well, alright then, twenty three: 9/11 hijackers
Oh, hell, a couple of million: Stalin, Lenin
Not one conservative in the bunch…Boy, you sure showed us…
the first 4 are psychopathic murderers,
9/11 hi-jackers were Muslim fundamentalists (read conservatives),
last two are national leaders (yes, national leaders issue orders that get a lot of people killed, war of independence, civil war, manifest destiny, ww1, ww2, etc.). know your history, bub.
I do know my history, Hal…
So the Norway shooter and Tim McVeigh weren’t psychopathic murderers? A bad night on Wall Street made them want to vent their feelings? Perhaps they got all worked up over Puritanical values and how oppressive they are for rutting hedonists?
Comparing America’s conservatives with Islamic murderers?…thanks for the thought…but I doubt you’ll ever have to hang on to your head when in their midst.
As to Socialist and Communist national leaders…Hey! We were supposed to arrive at Liberalism’s Utopian Dream by now…that’s what the 60′s were all about…or weren’t you there? Peace and Free Love. LSD and Bongs. Daisies and Food Stamps.
Destroyed families. Fatherless kids. Gang infested neighborhoods. Drug wars.
Nuff said. etc. etc.
you obviously haven’t read transcripts of Tim McVeigh’s interview and the Norway shooter’s manifesto, right-wing conservative hootnanny is the only way I can describe it.
and as for communist leaders, look at how many blacks enslaved, and indians died, and japanese blown up? all for what democracy, capitalism, americanism? communist/liberal, republic/socialism, etc. people die, because people stop thinking, much as you have, sir.
an idealogue is an idealogue, no matter what the idea. you, sir, are one.
also this technology you’re blabbing on, yup from hippie counter culture liberals. you think those silicon valley pirates were christian conservatives who just read the bible and watched 700 club and played guns all day long. sorry, nope. out of the box thinkers who pushed the envelope.
So when are you departing the U.S. for any or all Liberal Utopia’s in the World where no blacks or Indians or Japanese were ever offended?
You ARE leaving this American hellhole, right?
Be sure to send a postcard, wait…I forgot; you push envelopes. Only liberals get to push envelopes, no conservative can, that would be intolerant and hateful and not nice, neither.
“Stop thinking…?” funny you should mention that…I was just thinking that you are an idiot…no matter what the idea…you sir, are one.
Was Robin Hood (Ridley Scott’s version last year) a liberal or conservative? How about Mel Gibson in “the Patriot”. Liberals have done a lot for this country, sir. You’re welcome.
Hey, dumbass, you know they are all “conservatives” in Saudi Arabia and Iran, right? During the middle ages, the Anglican and Catholic church was conservative. the Bible belt is conservative.
Conservative just means stagnant thinking, when given better ideas, they want to wind the clock backwards. Revise history and go back to that happy place.
uhhh,,,
That Clancy Novel was about MUSLIM terrorists, I believe…
It was LIBERAL HOLLYWOOD that changed the villian to “conservative white-guys”
Liberals even have to fictionalize FICTION to make their points.
Norway shooter, Tim McVeigh, and all the bloggers they’ve credited their right-wing fanaticism from? Ring a bell?
Talk about two different realities. Some of the liberals posting above are living in some sort of drug-induced fantasy world, hearing “Its A small World After All” in the background as they weave there baskets and love beads, and greet everyone with “Peace, Dude.”
Somehow, I don’t think that the looters and those who killed those four people in England would react very well to that hippie-dippy approach.
And, as for the finger pointing business, if you’re really stoned, you probably perceive a whole forest of fingers, pointing in all sorts of directions.
How quickly was London and other towns cleaned-up. Riddle me that, Batgirl.
Your Pathetic clean-ups efforts dont impress me in the least.
Stopping a riot BEFORE they burn the city down?
THATS something a man should be proud of
“Artist, writer, photographer and explorer” Dan Thompson started the Twitter hashtag #riotcleanup late last night after watching news reports from his home on the Sussex coast. He told Wired.co.uk that he has been up all night co-ordinating clear-up operations, letting people know where to head if they want to help; and also relaying requests from local business owners who need support clearing debris.
Thompson added that the first person to volunteer was musician Kate Nash and the overall response has been “phenomenal”. He said: “Teams of volunteers have been out since the early hours and we are already getting responses back saying that areas are clear.”
Musicians, explorer, writers, artists, wait a minute, these aren’t conservatives, they’re liberals!!!
Off duty cops, bankers, politicians, aren’t really the type to start, organize these clean ups, you have to be civic minded and connect to people well, not just your kind, but all people. I assume, most conservatives, were trying to obtain weapons so they could “defend” themselves, instead of being part of the solution, they usually want to add to the problem.
Well, all right then. Liberals have no solutions to the riots except empathy and upping the payoffs to the chavs but, they are great at cleaning up. Swell.
And the next riot, and the one after that? How about when these oh so downtrodden rioters decide its time to visit the streets and houses where these very liberal and enlightened souls live with their families? What then?
You ask any LAPD officer and they’ll tell you LA is over due for another riot. But why hasn’t it come? Have you visited Echo Park, Venice, Downtown, Mid-city and other areas in LA lately? Yup, lots and lots of liberals, hell even flaming liberals. But the point is liberals (look at New York, San Fran), tend to increase property values, they tend to be positive effects in communities they live in because they actually interact with people.
Instead of arming yourself and not talking to your neighbors, go out on the street, walk on the sidewalk and take back communities one block at a time by connecting with other people who you see as different. With farmers’ markets, art walks, wine tasting, outdoor movie venues around LA neighborhoods,
I don’t think there will be another riot in LA. Go to art walk and wine tasting events, sure you’ll smell some pot, but you’ll also meet some really interesting and lively people, unlike the blandness of suburbian folk who hang american flags outside their homes, but sneer at the non-White neighbors they have next door.
Downtown LA is now about love and connecting with people. No riots anytime soon.
Buy a clue,
We sneer at them because they are section 8, moving into a neighborhood they never worked their ass off to afford.
We sneer at them because they sell drugs, get into Domestic Violent episodes regularly, and have Johns visiting their hookers in broad daylight, when my kids are playing in our yard, and my wife is home alone, because I’m at WORK.
We sneer at them, becuase Liberals like YOU gave them MY money, moved them next door to ME, so they can they endanger MY kids with their depraved animalistic behavior that knows nothing of discipline or productivity.
Hint…When Johns are suddenly prowling your neighborhood all day, some of them will tell their “other” Pervy friends where all the “cute little boys” live.
Its no coincidence we now have a huge increase in the reported “luring” events and “stranger in van talking to children” incidents reported to the police since they moved Section 8 into our town.
We sneer at them, because our local PD is too afraid of the word “racial” to do anything for the safety of our kids.
Failed Liberal Utopian Dreams will eventually cost the life of a child in my town,I can only HOPE its not one of mine
Arrogant Liberals get stoned and play Russian Roulette with OUR kids, because it makes them “feel good”.
Maybe this is the problem, you’re too busy sneering. Go and visit and interact with people, instead of just being angry in your home, watching Glenn Beck and thinking colored people are out to get you and your family and dreaming of the 1950s.
Anti-Sneer Team:
You do it. Better yet, put some skin in the game: show how touchy-feely you are, move into a predominately section 8 neighborhood and throw open your door to your new homies. Here’s a hint: leave the keys in the car, then your new friends won’t have to smash the windows to drive it off. Consider it your contribution to social justice.
Second thought, you won’t have to open your home…they’ll do that for ya’, around 2 or 3 in the morning, or when the house is vacant. After all, you leave for your job, right? They don’t.
Stop telling everyone how to live. Isn’t that what you claim conservatives do?
So true, violence is not the answer. Sometimes picking up a broom or talking to your neighbor is more than enough to fix things. Thank you.
Conservative and liberal tags are not really useful for Britain. In south london there appeared to be plenty of ordinary folk clearing up who might not be very political at all.It has been a good story for the aftermath but then everyone knew the rioters were a tiny minority. To those who think London was burning I would point out that the trouble was miles from any tourist or business areas.
Violence is not the answer?
Why does EVERYONE who says than never tell us WHAT THE QUESTION WAS?
Lets see now,
A Liberal Artiste’ organizes a self promoting sham on Facebook, gets fawning coverage coverage from Liberal Media, complete with bogus, unverifiable reports that “areas are already cleared” by his minions….
Yeah, just like that Humanitarian Bono, who’s “ONE” organization donates exactly “ONE PERCENT” of the money it receives.
Only liberals can think a 1% effort deserves a 100% news story
Not a sham, when actual said event had been verified by other parties, genius!
“verified”
Like global warming?
yup, that and dead people voting
Count on it from Liberals
You been to Texas this summer?!!! Keep sticking your little Ostrich head in the sand and keep wishing you’re back in the 1950s, while us smart and responsible people try to do something about this problem you conservatives have created for our children.
Jack,
I’ve read you stuff for ten years or so. I am currently a public defender and I have to agree with the English PM. Without going into details, I recently started a trial in a home invasion by a couple of thugs against other thugs. The government thugs identified my guy, who disputed this, till this day. The crimes were negotiated down to 1 agg assualt and two felonies (during jury selection, no less). Part of me wanted to try the case: I could impeach the witneses in a myriad set of ways, but unfortunately, I really needed my client to grow up and help out and to quit bithching and moaning (forget about the dreadlocks and the gold grills and his ghetto affectations. Right before he decided to take the plea (with no jail time under an Alford plea) I was informed the state court was about to issue a misdameanor probation revokation warrant for his arrest and that a deputy heard him threatening the government’s thug witnesses. Even so the judge was willing to consider a probation sentence and during the plea hearing my client kept wanting to talk to the court and deny involvement etc. The judge rejected the plea as unvolintary and revoked his bond based on the probation violations and the threats. The kid was a child and shot himself in D++K. Well after the trial in the next few months, I will prepare my file for a habeas hearing to come in the next few years. LOL
I love Koreans!!!
K-Town is where it’s at!!! Hot Korean 18 yr olds, looking for a sugar daddy.
Conservatism (Latin: conservare, “to preserve”) is a political and social philosophy that promotes the maintenance of traditional institutions and supports, at the most, minimal and gradual change in society. Some conservatives seek to preserve things as they are, emphasizing stability and continuity, while others oppose modernism and seek a return to the way things were.
Salafism an Islamic movement, “Salafiyyah”, that takes the Salaf who lived during the patristic period of early Islam as model examples. It promotes the maintenance of tradition and supports minimal change in society. Salafis seek to preserve things as they are, emphasizing the examples of the first generations of Muslims. They oppose modernism (sometimes violently) and seek a return to the way things were.
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This is enough to convince me why I think these two ideas are cancers of society.
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Don’t let the door hit your backside on the flight to Liberal Loon Love Lagoon. We’ll miss you.
I love how conservatives suddenly become experts and academics after watching a couple of episodes of Glen Beck and Bill O’Reilly. Classic. Great minds do think alike.
You ask any LAPD officer and they’ll tell you LA is over due for another riot. But why hasn’t it come? Have you visited Echo Park, Venice, Downtown, Mid-city and other areas in LA lately? Yup, lots and lots of liberals, hell even flaming liberals. But the point is liberals (look at New York, San Fran), tend to increase property values, they tend to be positive effects in communities they live in because they actually interact with people.
Instead of arming yourself and not talking to your neighbors, go out on the street, walk on the sidewalk and take back communities one block at a time by connecting with other people who you see as different. With farmers’ markets, art walks, wine tasting, outdoor movie venues around LA neighborhoods,
I don’t think there will be another riot in LA. Go to art walk and wine tasting events, sure you’ll smell some pot, but you’ll also meet some really interesting and lively people, unlike the blandness of suburbian folk who hang american flags outside their homes, but sneer at the non-White neighbors they have next door.
Downtown LA is now about love and connecting with people. No riots anytime soon.
I was there during the Riots of 1992 – “Civil Unrest” by the politically correct. However, as a sergeant with LAPD, I can tell you this, the Korean community, took up arms, stood watch over their businesses & homes in the Rampart and Wilshire areas; and sustained the least amount of damage of the entire city. DO THE MATH!
Rampart and Wilshire are not black communities.
Besides wishing to return to the 1950s, with racism and sexism, what exactly has conservative thought ever contributed to the modern world?
You people are like Al-Qaeda, easier to destroy than it is to create. Nothing begets nothing.
And you, in turn, respond with predictable, a-historic spew represented as “sense.”
Frankly, when (hopefully not) the Western world dies a death of a thousand cuts, it will be because of the vacuous maunderings of congenital defectives such as yourself.
I know you are, but what am I?
Oh, way cool, the “neener neener” defense.
And you wonder why Conservatives view you guys as suspect.
It’s not like I was responding to anything mind blowing. Now was I?
Yes, well, it’s simply astounding to me just how may of the responses I receive to quite defensible Conservative and contrary views of the world around us are immediately lockstep represented as “racism and sexism.” You do understand the concept of the lazy pseudo-intellectual, who simply uses stock phrases as their argument?
What arrogant nonsense. Attempting to shut down all debate based on a couple of phrases that are intended to make your debate opponent feel like a piece of Guano, and feel too embarrassed to continue to reply.
So 1950s in the US was void of racism and sexism? How old are you? Lazy pseudo-intellectual? Like you spouting Glenn Beck’s diabrites? Typical.
Better yet, just answer the initial question: What exactly has conservative thought ever contributed to the modern world? Which by the way, you’re directly benefiting from this very second, look around you.
Incorrect. The only representation of a “return to the ugly, bad 1950s” exists only in your claiming that this is what I said, and that is not so. Thus, you are deliberately fabricating controversy where none exists.
What has Conservative thought created? In other words, anything that has been previously created that works well is automatically viewed as not right, bad,, not good, anti-progress?
Yes, “change.” You people are simply politically neurotic, akin to those people who alter their living room 10 times a week. What has been that has worked well is not acceptable now. Even if the “now” is all of three days after the last change.
That pretty much sums up the “Progressive” thought process.
Oh yeah, sorry, didn’t answer one of your questions.
“How old are you?”
52. Work for you?
The fact is only backward thinking like anti-Evolution theory, 700 club, mutually assured destruction doctrine, Reaganomics (the cause of our financial collapse, so pls. read up on this) are the only ideas the conservatives have offered the modern world.
Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, two of the most influential people in the world, the people who invented google, youtube, facebook, the software for this site, were all liberals. The very people who allowed you to receive conservative directives are liberals. You people have next to nothing.
You mean those EEEEEvil 1950′s?
Where 80% of black children were raised in TWO PARENT housholds?
And most at least Graduated High School?
Before you Liberal Utiopian Dreamworkers hooked them on WELFARE at the same time you NORMALIZED the morality of recreational drug usage…
And now of 80% of them have NO father figure at all?
And the drop-out rate and drug usage is horrific?
Youre right, I blame the Bigots in society for all the ills in the inner cities
I blame the Great Society Mindset of ignorant liberal do-gooders,
who practice (with unlimited taxpayers funds) the Soft Bigotry of Low Expectations…
Rewarding bad behavior (section 8, welfare, riot apologies), and punishing Success (tax tax tax)
You mean in segregated schools with piss poor track record, that teach them they’re dumb and ugly. What’s the use of having 2 parents, during this time, when you see them either getting beat up or slapped in front of you or sit in the back of the bus? Think, man, think!!!
I do think…
Thats why I dismiss the EPIC failures of Liberalism for what they are.
Absolute. Total. Failures.
Everywhere.
Just examine how your Soft Bigotry of Low Expectations, with welfare, Section 8, and an absolute refusasal to punish bad behavior, is further extrapolated outside our boarders to include the appeasement of terrorists and dicatators ala Jimmy Carter, Nevelle Chamberlain, etc etc, and the cause of our problems is abundently clear to any sober, thinking person.
Not to mention the unsustainable debt loads placed onto our children (the ones we didnt just kill in the womb?) while Liberals holding the purse strings smoked up, tuned in, dropped out, and said it was all going to be fine….
Slacker 1 says: “party was awsome, dude…place is TRASHED!
Slacker 2 says “dude…not our place!”
Both laugh.
All right wing sound bites. Take the example of this online discussion. You think any of this could’ve been created by conservatives? This technology could only have been produced by people who think people, network, linkages and out of the box thinking can create something good.
I am an Army veteran (initial MOS Radar Tech. in an ADA unit). I double majored in Planetary Science and Physical Geography, and also have five technical certificates. I began working in the tech. world during High School, when Apple and Microsoft didn’t yet exist. I have maintained clinical units in some of the top teaching hospitals in the world, have built part of a satellite, worked in an Observatory. I have been expert in eight or nine programming languages.
And I am a staunch Conservative. I am not alone in this regard, Conservative and scientifically acute. Many of us are, here, on this site.
We understand thoroughly that the constant insistence that science and engineering is “all liberals” is a load of hooey. The fact that you people keep insisting otherwise doesn’t make it so. But then again, one does tend to expect Liberals to jack their jaws constantly about their fallacious view of “how matters are” – all talk, many misrepresentations, frequent outright lies. Generally not a shred of intellectual honesty among the lot of you.
Isn’t it odd – that literally every AGW poseur is a Liberal? Hmm HMM. Consensus science versus the scientific method; scientific mob rule rather than long arduous hours working to get it right. Does that tell you something?
But you won’t get it, will you? You’ll just continue merrily along, hands over your ears going “La La La,” pretending you have a clue what you’re speaking of, arbitrarily denying what you don’t like. The only reason your Liberal skewed beliefs work is that there are millions of equally deluded people propping up your little fantasy world.
And that, Sir, is that. Good day to you.
(To my friends here, sorry, I wasn’t trying to boast of my accomplishments. It is what it is, and I am not egotistical about it at all. I humbly believe I am blessed by a beneficent God for my fortune and luck, and for being a Conservative to boot.)
Liberals and the The Internet…
Math, science, engineering.
Code. Specification. Order. Conformity.
Dare we say….discipline?
A college student today spends more time being force fed gender grievence studies, racial and ethnic grievence studies, and precious little time with any real math and science.
You cant build it with “feelings”.
The internet, and advanced software, exists IN SPITE OF scatter-brain emotional liberals,
and their acidic affect on higher learning.
The Liberal Teachers Union, that donate exclusively to Liberal Democrats, are the ones producing these ignorant College Freshman that need REMEDIAL math on Day One.
Lets not even discuss the high school test scores of “minority” students in long-time Democrat strongholds of Atlanta, Philly, Detriot or LA.
Have another toke, man, I’ll sweat the buzz-killing details…
Write some code that compensates for your impared state…
Nice simple touch screen interfaces, so you can send a picture of your dick with a PHONE,
How cool is THAT!?
Or organize a criminal flash mob to steal more cool stuff I invent
Sweet!
@@@ Allston,
Name one conservative who’s made a difference in today’s modern tech world.
Name one liberal who isn’t a fool.
Name one conservative who isnt a tool?
Shakim:
Freeman Dyson.
@@@ Allston,
You were given a fair chance to produce something respectable, instead you offer a kook scientist? c’mon…
Dyson had proposed that whatever inflammations the climate was experiencing might be a good thing because carbon dioxide helps plants of all kinds grow. Then he added the caveat that if CO2 levels soared too high, they could be soothed by the mass cultivation of specially bred “carbon-eating trees,” whereupon the University of Chicago law professor Eric Posner looked through the thick grove of honorary degrees Dyson has been awarded — there are 21 from universities like Georgetown, Princeton and Oxford — and suggested that “perhaps trees can also be designed so that they can give directions to lost hikers.” Dyson’s son, George, a technology historian, says his father’s views have cooled friendships, while many others have concluded that time has cost Dyson something else. There is the suspicion that, at age 85, a great scientist of the 20th century is no longer just far out, he is far gone — out of his beautiful mind.
Dyson is a “kook?”
/snicker.
If you notice my academics, Son, you’ll note I do have the ability to determine that for myself, thanks.
Somehow I doubt you do.
(by the way, nice unattributed smear comment, as if the opinions of his son are some sort of peer review. Nice try at a Strawman though…)
Oh, and Shakim? Did you read that CERN has finally released the results of the CLOUD experiment? You know – that’s the one in which cosmic rays of various flavors seed cloud production? The experiment the AGW Barking Moonbats pooh-poohed?
In a particular Monty Python episode, Death visits a room full of five people who have just had dinner. Apparently they are all suddenly deceased (from eating tainted fish stew). Death appears and excoriates them all. The English gentleman makes a tepid comment, to which Death responds, “You English – you have no BALLS.”
And here we are.
Did they think they could achieve decisive, understandable penalties for actions that every Hooligan could understand by being “soft?”
Python got it right. They’ve turned their entire justice system into something that isn’t even parody. It’s simply weak, spiritless, lacking in “Balls,” and will destroy them all in the end.
I guess now we should watch more Monty Python shows with our Glenn Becks and O’Reilly shows. Pathetic.
I note that no one commenting here from the Left side of the spectrum has really tackled the question—they’ve thrown out a lot of ad hominem attacks, slid around the issue, talked about how good liberals are at cleaning up, and generally offered the saccharin prescription that “all you need is love,” but never really answered the immediate question of how to deal with someone who is heading toward you down your street with a rock, or a crow bar, or a Molotov cocktail in his hand, someone who is determined to loot, burn, pillage, and perhaps rape, and kill, and who has no scruples about doing so. Someone who just doesn’t care, who has no regard for you as a human being or for your rights or property, but who has been told that he is “entitled,” and that people like you have stolen the life he is entitled to from him and, besides, it’s a lot of fun to trash the place, set some fires and watch them burn, pick up a TV or some bling, and possibly exact some personal revenge.
Do you stand your ground and meet him with force, do you greet him with milk and cookies or try to talk him out of it, or do you run or hide away in a back room and hope he just doesn’t find you? And if your house or business or neighborhood is pillaged and burned in the process, do you just tell yourself that you can live with that?
The problem is that, unless you come down hard on him the first time, it is likely he will be back for more loot and fun at a later date, and he’ll probably bring a lot of his friends with him.
You’re such a simple person, Seth. Of course you fight back. If your wife was accosted while you’re out and about painting the town red, of course you fight back. If you take a note of all the Martial Arts and Self Defense schools in and around LA, you’ll be surprise to know that most will be Young, Urban, Professionals, many Gays, many non-Whites, who are taking lessons. But unlike, the gun-toting conservative right-wing fanatics with guns in their cars, and who tend to be the ones who pick fights with their classmates and eventually get kicked out of the class, most of these liberals know the chances of getting mug is slim to none, because instead of Rambo, liberals know that there is power in numbers–there’s power in community.
Let’s see, do you know me, have you ever met me? I doubt it but, nonetheless, you certainly are quick with the multiple stereotypes to describe me and, with the scene set, with straw man arguments.
Just keep repeating the mantra “There’s power in community” and I am sure all the bad things in life–like a looter who wants to torch your house–after he loots it of course, it perhaps before, because impulse control is kind of shaky in this crew–will all simply vanish, never to reappear.
Let’s just say I know a Glenn Beck fan when I see one. Fear leads to hate, my friend. Go out and talk to people, you gotta get out and meet real people, get laid by a tattooed artist or something, because getting holed up and thinking coloreds are coming to get you and dreaming of the 1950s, is not healthy. I’m sure you can defend yourself if there’s an invasion of some sorts with all your guns, but not interacting with other people and just covering your ears going, LALALAlala… will not help any in the long run.
Martial arts classes?
Thats THEATRE in a lethal encounter.
You might as well DANCE to save yourself from a group of armed thugs.
Like Michael Jackson, you can intimidate them with fast, flashy pointed fingers,
in perfect sync with a provacative head twist, and furrowed brow.
Soooo BADDD they just run away.
Sure. That happens all the time.
I’m a Firearms Instructor.
My students can expect three things in a lethal encounter.
1) you are outnumbered
2) they will initiate the violence
3) you may be instantly shot before they even they make a single “demand” of you.
If you intend to survive, you must be prepared to effectively shoot BACK, particularly when wounded.
This means lots dynamic practice, with your non-dominant hand, in non-traditional shooting positions. Inside your car, laying on the ground, falling backwards
My son is in Karate classes because it builds character, discipline, and confidence to deal with unarmed bullies on the playgounds of white suburbia.
My wife carries a Glock 19 for the “real world”
So you don’t know how to fight hand to hand? Say if your assailant has no gun?
Yeah, I do…
And its a dangerous tactic when dealing with street thugs…
Most people are murdered in this country by “blunt force trauma”
Meaning they are simply stomped to death by fists and feet, than anything else.
Consult the FBI’s Uniform Crime Statistics for this fact.
Also, knives can come out in a flash, and what you thought was a “punch” you could “take”, is actually now a fatal stab wound….that wont kill you RIGHT NOW, but its all over in the next 10 minutes regardless of any treatment
Evil People attack the innocent…
The fact that any ‘non threatening” person (like a woman, older person, smaller person, outnumbered person, store owner etc etc.) is even BEING attacked, says enough to me about the character of the aggressor(s), to fully support the “victim” having the uncontested absolute right to kill them, in order to escape.
The cemetaries are full of people who did everything they were asked by their assailents…
handed over wallets, laid down on the ground, dont look at me…
And “woke up dead” anyway. Thousands, every single year.
And you would prefer, even REQUIRE, they go bare-handed into a fight for their life?
I hope you’re not really a gun instructor of the Charles Bronson school of gun fanatics and morons.
Your threat/self-defense matrix is really un-sophisticated if you think a gun (which is a tool) will fit in every threat scenario. If your students are caught having shot an opponent with no weapon, they’ll spend a life time in prison. Excusable homicide is a very tricky issue, and if you don’t have a sophisticated threat matrix, youre doing your students more harm than good.
I’m pretty sure “I feared being stomped to death” is not a good enough excuse to kill a man. I seriously doubt you’ve been in the military or police force. You’re talking out of your ass, it seems.
To the commentor questioning Threat Matrix:
I could not attach a reply to you comment,
Hope this shows up somewhere nearby…
I appreciate your concerns, but youre mixing apples and oranges…
I was asked if I “could fight with my bare hands” and I gave some valid reasons, based on my own personal career experience, for not wishing to do so.
These were spoken in very “Generic” terms.
We were not, to my knowledge, discussing specific, legal requirements of a lethal force situation, in any particular jurisdiction. If you want that, you’ll have to attend my classes.
That being said, many states (mine included) give the citizen APPROXIMATELY the same level of statutory “cause” needed in a lethal force scenario as they do a law enforcement officer.
If your state is indeed like mine (Pennsylvania) the particulars specified in the code for deadly force most likely include multiple instances of phrases like “as would a law enforcement officer, acting within his authority” when it refers to “reasonable threats” and decision making involving a CITIZEN employing Deadly Force.
The threshhold is often described as a “reasonable presumption” of receiving unlawful “bodily harm”. Some places use the term “serious bodily harm” while other do not, which creates points of contention for the lawyers and procecutors to hash out.
Bats, clubs, knives, a metal garbage can, etc usually meet the threshhold for deadly force. So do pretend weapons, percieved weapons, and sudden threatening gestures acompanied by verbal threats. Try any of that on a uniformed cop, and his deadly force decision will usually hold up in court. An armed citizen is usually on the same footing in this regard.
Also, there are usually provisions that cover multiple criminal (but unarmed) attackers, forced abductions, kidnapping, and physical restraint (like getting tied to a chair?) in which a “reasonable person” would “resonably believe” could result in their death or harm, and deadly force is allowed.
Most of these scenarios would legally justify the use of deadly force, although its been my experience that a citizen is (slightly) more likely to get screwed, and cop more often not, for a “shoot” under the exact same circumstances.
Just seems that way to me, based on experience.
As for me, I’m Former USMC infantry, and later a P.M.I. with the WTBN at Quantico, as rifle/pistol instructor for T.B.S kiddies ’88-’90, with my L/E career, including weapons instructor, after that.
Now retired, I’m still an active L/E Firearms Instructor through the NRA.
I attend NRA L/E Instructor development schools, (at least once a year)
and support (read: volunteer) police weapons training activities, along with running my (semi-profitable!) firearms training school for CCW holders
Thanks.
Shoulda gone with this answer first instead of looking dumb and ignent, I’m gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and not think you googled ‘threat matrix’ and cut and pasted from soc.net or professional soldiers forum. Although this was the answer I was looking for initially. Hohum, one hand clapping.
Well now,
Thank you for your Merciful Approval, Sire.
I generally do not have to post such levels of detail in order to make that which is frighteningly obvious to the averagely intelligent person, clear also to those who simply choose not to see.
You perhaps notice, I said essentially THE SAME THING, as my earlier posts, I just took a lot LONGER and imagined my self talking VERY SLOWLY as I typed…
Glad to know I’m still an effective and patient teacher with the remedial learners such as yourself. Difficult as you all are, you do indeed force me to hone my skills….maintaining the sharpest of files to salvage the dullest knives, as it were.
What then, pray-tell, are YOUR credentials (or lack thereof) to excuse such numerous and amusingly fanciful incorrectness in the Affairs of Professional Men?
plank owner MARSOC 1 BN (2 tours Iraq, 3 Afghan), did my 10 yrs in the Suck and jumped on the Blackwater bandwagon, now Xe, currently in Mexico incognito fighting a losing battle, which could be easily won if our gov’t just legalizes cocaine, marijuana and puts more controls on ephedrine and like substances. Nuff said, I gotz street cred prolly more than you, gramps.
I note a lot of lofty disdain here.
Well, welcome all you Liberal, Kumbaya types to the “Estates” world of “Harry Brown,” because that is what your ideas have led to in the violent sewer that many parts of England have become, and that is what they are leading to here in the U.S., Philadelphia and Detroit being some of the foremost examples.
Scary wary, the world is so scary, what’s under that rock? I’m so scared, My neighbor’s black, I’m scared. I’m scared, I need my gun, I’m gonna show them I’m not scared, I’m scared. Get a life, man.
Get a drug test, man. Sorry that gig with Cheech and Chong didn’t work out for ya.
Get a life?
I GOT a life, man…
So do my WIFE and my KIDS
We intend to KEEP THEM….if that’s alright with you.
But unfortunately, Section 8 housing is bringing more and more SHOOTINGS into our neighborhood.
Bad guys…Guns…junkies…needles on the sidewalk where it USED TO be safe for my kids to play.
I used to wave hello to my neighbor, but now a big PIT BULL snarls and chews at the fence when I walk by, and the “new people” dont wave back.
This used to be a nice friendly safe neighborhood where everyone got along fine. Now with Section 8 we live in fear, because PEOPLE ARE GETTING SHOT AT.
What would you know….guys like you come here to score weed, we sweep up broken bottles in our gardens when you leave.
But youre so chill, buzzin wit the boyz, everythings cool
cause you dont LIVE here
Troy, MI? or Olympia, WA?
Philly
“I’m pretty sure “I feared being stomped to death” is not a good enough excuse to kill a man.
Well, youre pretty sure WRONG.
Lots of Legal Precedent and Case Law says so.
Common sense too.
You’re a Liberal
So I’m Pretty sure you havent a clue…about weapons, crime, law….
Facts only exist if you like them.
You rely on feelings and opinions, not what actually is.
Post them on here then, them legal precedents, chief!!! Let’s see them. You’d have to be a billionaire to afford that sort of excellent death defying defense.
Ask Jack Dunphy, but there was a small Asian officer from LAPD Foothill Division who shot a big bad black guy, who she stated she was scared of, and guess where she is these days? Sometimes being scared just ain’t enough, and for you to start telling your kids and your students this, would just be irresponsible and place them in a small 6 by 8 cell for life. Quit playing Rambo and be more responsible.
Reasonable fear of bodily harm
Thats the threshhold
Reasonable.
What a reasonable person, would reasonably fear, under those circumstances.
Thousands of cases where a credible threat, created a reasonable fear, and the Mugging victim/homeowner was never even CHARGED, let alone convicted.
Roughly 2.5 million legitimate self defense uses of a firearm by private citizens every year in this country.
FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, look it up
Sorry you wish this not to be true,
But if wishes were Horses, beggars would ride, wouldnt they?
Walk along
MY neighbor got car jacked…
They came in her attached garage as she was leaving for work, tried to duct-tape her mouth, and throw her in the trunk of her own car.
Broke free, ran inside grabbed her gun. Shot them both as they entered the house through the garage door. They had no weapons, no knife, no gun, they were just young and strong, wearing masks.
Guess what? No charges. They kept coming, and the DA said she had a reasonable fear of God Knows what, rape, torture, murder? So no charges.
That doesnt mean she could have shot them in the back as they ran down the street after “giving up” trying to abduct her.
But certainly in her reasonable “I was scared they were going to kill me” situation, the law agreed with her.
It does happen, and it happens lot.
Disagreement with the principal doesnt make it untrue
That wasn’t just reasonable fear there, chief, you have an actual crime, with force, implements, motivation (kidnapping), and more, way more.
That’s what I’m trying to explain here, you need more than just “reasonable” fear, you need evidence/proof, in circumstances, in witness corroboration, etc. etc.
How many ways are there to spell ‘DUH?
Resonable fear…Reasonable
Rea-son-able.
Not just “fear”, but REASONABLE FEAR, do you get it?
Thats the threshhold, and its
(wait for it!)
A reasonable one.
If you dont want to get SHOT,
dont run around acting like your going to HURT someone.
Fear alone does not make a slam dunk defense, no matter how reasonable. There has to be more, in evidence/proof, in circumstances, in witness corroboration, etc. etc. You’re living in dreamland if you think ‘reasonable’ fear and nothing else will get you a free ride in the courts.
Have you ever testified, in front of a Grand Jury, that was weighing the pros and cons of a potential indictment regarding a deadly force shooting?
I have.
Many times.
Its nearly a standard procedure when a citizen uses a firearm in self defense.
The incident is reviewd, and MORE OFTEN THAN NOT its ruled justifiable.
Some instances are so clear-cut, a Grand Jury is never even conviened
The laws are clear.
“Reasonable Fear” is a LEGAL THRESHOLD with SPECIFIC MEANING.
Its spelled out very carefully in the criminal code.
Specific. Meaning.
Its not a “feeling” like “happy” or “sad”
If an innocent person going about their day, is unjustly attacked or threatened, to the point that a REASONABLE PERSON, as well as a LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, ACTING WITHIN HIS AUTHORITY, would REASONABLY believe they were faced with BODILY HARM under said circumstances, deadly force can be employed.
You are simply too immature to comprehend the adult world, and your country/culture is too decayed anymore to safely navigate the waters between Free People vs Criminals.
Go play more video games, child, we have important work to do.
“Fear alone does not make a slam dunk defense, no matter how reasonable.”
Yes it does. When its “reasonable”.
Its THE legal threshold in most states.
Educate yourself on the law, and stop using childish emotions as a shield for things you dont understand
“Quit playing Rambo and be more responsible”
Yeah, lay down and get raped, you selfish pigs!
People want your stuff, your life, your childrens lives, who knows what, just bloody GIVE it to them already, and stop all this “I’m afraid to die” nonsense.
Cant you see my opinion is more valuable than your blood?
Crips, you cowboy yanks are so stupid.
We know whats best, look at how WE deal with crime…..a whole city burned and only a HANDFUL of innocent dead.
You buggers would have shot the whole lot of them.
Shame on you!
Thanks, guys! I’m learning so much more about self-defense on here than I am from my firearms instructor. Good stuff.
Get a new one then!
“Roughly 2.5 million legitimate self defense uses of a firearm by private citizens every year in this country.”
There’s probably twice that many rotting in prison because they though ‘reasonable fear’ was enough with nothing else.
There’s a Navy SEAL operator right now (close to 20 yrs in service) sitting in a state prison cell with cholos and homeboys, because he got cute and thought “reasonable fear” was enough.
He came back from a mission to find his wife boinking a black Marine (dark green), he killed him and waited for the cops to arrive. You know what his defense was? “Reasonable fear” that his wife was being raped by a black assailant. No go. DA pursued the case and broke the wife in court. Now he is CA state corrections property for life.
Lots of anecdotes, but no facts…
I’m not doing your research for you.
Justifiable use of firearms, in legitimate self defense in the US, is a fact.
Thousands of Americans are perfectly capable of doing so.
Thousands, even millions, do.
The laws are clear. The responsibilities well known. And EVERY place that passes a Concealed Carry law see’s a noticeable DROP in street level crime, as Perps begin to second guess the decision to accost a potentially ARMED citizen.
Revocations of permits for irresponsible behavior are almost zero.
These are facts. Facts documented by the very folks who would probably LIKE to see guns banned (FBI Uniform Crime Statistics), so there’s zero chance of a “Pro-gun bias” in those numbers.
Stop whining you wish it all wasn’t so, and just deal with it.
Read them, perhaps.
Of course, if you doubt your OWN ability to make responsible, clear headed decisions under duress, I understand.
Not everyone makes the cut, from Paris Island to my classroom, some people just don’t possess the moral character to be responsible Armed Citizens.
But most, with proper training, can.
And millions of them are alive today, because they DID.
Its unfortunate that Europeans are not allowed to exercise their rights of self defense. A few responsible CCW holders in Norway might have saved some of those children, or protected their property from looters and arsonists.
But you’ve been trained for so long to be Useless Little Surrender Monkeys, you cant protect you children, or your cities, from the simple predictable realities of evil. This is simple stuff we knew as cavemen…defend our offspring, fight off intruders…but somehow you’ve forgotten it all.
And because YOUVE forgotten, you’re mad at the whole universe, for still being what it always was.
Very sad, really.
Booo!!! Bang!!! Your Honor I was scared out of my poop, so I just shot the guy, your honor, please let me go, I’m a responsible Armed Citizen.
I’m sure this won’t cut it, gramps.
I never said it would.
It takes the Legal threshold of “reasonable fear” for a justified shooting, and that standard is usually quite clear.
You might even call it “reasonable”
However, you believe YOURSELF to be far too emotionally erratic to be trusted in making such an important decision, as evidenced by the erratic and highly emotional state you display here, I STRONGLY suggest you never have access to a firearm.
60 people died in LA 1992 riots, with 15 shot dead by police and soldiers.
4 people died in London. Three who died were Muslims.
In LA riot: I was there when LAPD officers yelled to soldiers, “Cover me!!!” and they shot up a whole apartment complex with women and children inside with their M-16s, killing 7.
“Reasonable Fear”? “The whole apartment complex was a threat, so I mowed it down.” Sometimes Fear isn’t so good.
Some criminal lives are less valuable than property.
And the law says so, too.
Read them.
I am, in the military and in civilian life, allowed to use deadly force to protect certain kinds of property.
I am allowed to use it to prevent the THIEFT of materials and equipment that present a serious hazard…a maniac jumping onto a bulldozer and attempting to drive onto a crowded sidewalk, for instance. I dont need “proof” he’s going to squash anyone to death. Or a biker gang breaking into a Gun Store and driving off with a trunk-full of stolen weapons. I dont need “proof” they will murder anyone with them.
I am also allowed to employ deadly force to prevent the torching/arson of a building. I do NOT have to “know for certain” WHETHER OR NOT people are inside.
Thats where that “Reasonable” thing comes in.
People COULD be inside, and the Jackass with the firebomb cant FORCE me to confirm that, before I employ deadly force in his quilty dumb ass.
These are real world, “been there, testified about it” scenarios that occured with officers AND civillian I’ve trained.
Opinions and emotions dont cut it
Facts and laws do. Find some, and learn
Your security guard training just doesn’t cut it, it’s now become painfully obvious. Stop talking none sense. I hope you do shoot a co-worker and say you were scared. That would be too funny.
You fat, huge beer gut having, gun fanatics are all the same. All talk and expertise, with nothing to back your theories. Keep telling others you can walk around with a 6 shooter on your hip, like Cowboys & Aliens, and Charles Bronson movies, and just go about shooting people that scare you in the streets. Wake up call in prison is a byatch.
I liked it better when the NRA was a group populated by retired cops, hunters and military types, now you got live action wannabes, all sporting the most expensive gear, wishing they were SOCOM, but don’t really want to exercise. Pathetic. The NRA now is made of morons and wannabe John Rambos. Talk about out growing childhood fantasies that never quite made it.
Have you guys fired the new .50 cal. Sweet, I wish I had that in my truck, then everyone would think I’m cool too. Like I said pathetic.
“I’m not doing your research for you.”
I don’t blame ya, gramps, I couldn’t find them case law or legal precedents either. I guess in your world it’s perfectly ok to shoot someone when you’re scared. I still sleep w/ my night light too. j/k
Of course you couldnt.
Its because its easy…
Find out what STATE you live in…
(hint: its geographic, not chemical)
Find a WEBSITE of government services…
From there you may find links to the CRIMINAL CODE.
It may be electronicly available, or you may need to visit an office for a hard copy.
Consult the sections with names like “Firearms ownership” and Firearms transportation” as they often mention OTHER sections specific to CCW and deadly force.
In Pennsylvania we have the “ACT 235″ reqirement, which covers the responsibilities of armed employment. It is a requirement course for Police Officers, Armord Car employees etc.
It is useful in terms of its deadly force education, but its NOT required for CCW holders, as it spends much time on “police style” less than lethal items like “mace”, handcuffs and nightsticks.
Its all out there, in black and white.
Put down the Bong, stop screaming, and find out.
“Some criminal lives are less valuable than property.
And the law says so, too.
Read them.”
I think I got it now, you’re not talking about American laws, your probably referring to ancient codes like the Hammurabi Code or the Qur’an’s Sharia in which lives are indeed and as written less valuable than property of the rich.
I feel sorry for you, gramps.
From your post, in order:
I think….your probably…like….I feel…
Put a fact or some research in there somewhere…
part of your problem not comprehending specific legal statues, is youre emotional and not factual.
Laws exist, read them.
Disagree with them, yes, but deny their existance to make your case?
You ARE a Liberal
1. “I am allowed to use it to prevent the THEFT of materials and equipment that present a serious hazard… a maniac jumping onto a bulldozer and attempting to drive onto a crowded sidewalk, for instance.”
Dumbass, you’re not preventing a theft here, you’re PREVENTING a crime that has a high likelihood of death or serious bodily injury, the possible crime isn’t theft, it is ADW w/ a bulldozer. If you stated you were trying to prevent a theft, the judge would throw his gavel to your nose.
Again, you have to be able to explain and convince the DA why you thought he would drive into people. Trust me, if all you can muster is “Well, judge, he’s a maniac”, he’d throw another gavel to your nose.
2. “a biker gang breaking into a Gun Store and driving off with a trunk-full of stolen weapons. I dont need “proof” they will murder anyone with them.”
You do need proof. You need to convince the DA that the individuals involve are going to murder others, and not simply sell the guns in question.
Like I said your understanding of the concept of Excusable Homicide is very lacking, what’s your name and where do you teach, because I’d like to personally make a complaint, because you’ll un-necessarily get your students put in jail. Whatever you’re advising them is obviously wrong.
3. “I am also allowed to employ deadly force to prevent the torching/arson of a building. I do NOT have to “know for certain” WHETHER OR NOT people are inside.”
That’s because there is no way to know, so you are erring on the side of caution. To protect yourself and/or others from death and/or serious injuries. Proof is in his arson implements and intent–a kid playing with sparks stick is not arson. Again you have to convince the DA why you thought it was arson. You can’t just say, “I just figured it was arson, cuz he looked like a good for nothing”.
Understand now? Class dismiss.
I stand corrected.
Thank you for this.
“A few responsible CCW holders in Norway might have saved some of those children,”
OR maybe if Right-Wing nuts on retirement with nothing better to do stopped spouting none sense to other little impressionable Right-Wing nuts about how liberals need to be shot, them kids would still be alive. Guns don’t kill be people, dumbasses like you kill people.
Maybe you missed #24 above, the one about shooting conservatives…we’ll call it a draw; pot v.s. kettle.
Now, turn off the computer, go upstairs and open an English book…”none sense” is spelled, “nonsense.” “Them kids” is incorrect for “those kids.” “Kill be people,” should be, “kill people,” there is no need for the “be,”
unless you meant, “Hey maw, I be goin’ tahda likkor stor ta killbe som pepl, git som muny fer mor bulits.”
Glad I could help.
And how many liberals or left-wing nuts have killed kids and mommies? I know there’re few that have torched gov’t bldgs and maybe a car dealership or two, but you right-wing nuts are of a different caliber all together–more EVIL.
Jarrad Loghtner…lefty pot head.
Also most Urban Shooters in every American city…
Liberal smokers of weed, and part an parcel of the “left wing base” of incarcerated voters the Dems spend money on. Hardly a one could be called “conservative”
”
What was that crasy professors name? The “Harvard Grad” that shot up her co-workers when she didnt get tenure? Major left wing nut-bag.
Yeah, left vs right, you leftie guys do most of the killing, as well as over turn cars and smash windows…college protests, riots, indescriminate street shootings…you guys OWN that stuff in spades
to Reality Bites,
Sir, are you a federal agent or have you gone to law school, because your nuanced understanding of self-defense laws is very impressive. I’m from MI, the home of militias, and there are more too often than not pseudo-gun experts, professing law enforcement background, that seem to believe shooting another human being is a very simple deliberation in the court system. They are of couse mistaken, so thank you for shedding some light on this issue. I’m looking forward to more of your entertaining and informative posts.
Thanks, Sharee, I like picking on them stoopid consaarvatives, they think like kids, no sophistication, everything’s black and white for them.
You forget, culture’s popular view of “truth is relative” means your diatribe regarding conservatism isn’t significant, only rather childishly naive. You sound like I did when I was 17 and a flaming comrade.
You know, if I want to be what YOU consider ‘evil,’ that’s MY choice, and YOU can go pound sand. If I refuse to kowtow to YOUR worldview, what makes that any more intolerant than you kowtowing to MINE? Who do you think you are, shrieking like a howler monkey because people disagree with your views?
Regarding the writings of the Norway shooter; he could have written his journal precisely to demonize an entire group of people, those he wanted to discredit by his murderous actions.
If he’s bug nuts, what does it matter ANYTHING he wrote? As for Timothy McVeigh being conservative…yeah, and I’m Elvis. So who knows how much of ‘his’ writings were penned after he was conveniently dead…sorry, I’m just not impressed.
So you don’t like it that bad things happen in the world. Grow up. That’s what “nature, read in tooth and claw,” is all about. You believe in Darwin’s views that humans are just evolved animals, right? So, when nature has it’s way, it’s not reasonable to yell, ‘Evil!’ Animals don’t care about ‘evil.’
You mention killing “kids and mommies,” well, now; do you support abortion? Euthanasia? Sure you do…so someone thinks its okay to pop a cap into the arse of a thug, just think of it as, “choice.” Sucks if you happen to be the ‘thug,’ but that’s the risk one takes. Two victims I know, had they been armed, wouldn’t be laying in cold graves while their murderers are enjoying three hots and a cot, passing the time filing endless court appeals. A thought: a murderer can get out of the prison when the victim can get out of the grave.
The point is, you don’t have a point, just feelings, and I (and others) don’t have the same feelings you do. That’s what freedom is all about.
Regarding the writings of the Norway shooter; he could have written his journal precisely to demonize an entire group of people, those he wanted to discredit by his murderous actions.
(Yah, you wish!)
Scatter brain, what’s your point?
Oh, and Shakim? Did you read that CERN has finally released the results of the CLOUD experiment? You know – that’s the one in which cosmic rays of various flavors seed cloud production? The experiment the AGW Barking Moonbats pooh-poohed?
Dumbass, this does not disprove AGW. If anything this be add to the immediacy of where our world stands. There’s crap from outside our atmosphere we can’t control (like meteors hitting our planet, reverse big bang, our sun becoming a black hole), and there’s crap we ourselves are doing which we can control, like driving less, local gov’ts investing in clean public transport, your kids reducing consumption, reusing, and recycling. If we’re polluting our world, let’s clean up. Period. Simple.
“…our sun becoming a black hole”
Look up the Chandrasekhar Limit. That sole comment of yours demonstrates you have not a clue, and are babbling nonsense.
Dumbass, black holes are theoretical, no one’s “seen” one, no one’s “tested” one, how black holes form is still up in the air.
Oh, and do you what is an interesting piece of causation? Richard Lindzen published a paper about a year ago, that the rate of any global average temperature change via potential forcing appears to be about 1/10 of what the hysterics at the IPCC et al claim. And now here we are, with CLOUD demonstrating that aerosol nucleation is about 10 times what was postulated by the self-same IPCC.
Gee.
In the early 1970s, my parents worked for a factory in the mid-west in a town, where black ashen toxic cloud covered the sky and the rivers were tainted with deadly chemicals. In the 1970s, we wised up as a nation and began cleaning up. It’s very rare now to see factories and companies willi-nilly dump chemicals in the rivers and burn toxic stuff in the air.
We’ve stepped up our electric powered vehicles and we got our kids thinking about the environment, don’t tell me you stoopid conservatives are all going back to that time of irresponsibility where we with impunity polluted our nation. CERN cloud experiment or not, whether or not
Perry/Palin 2012 campaign exploits this new study (which fo’ sho’ they will) to say, “We can finally go back to polluting, because it’s NOT our fault!!! Drill baby Drill”.
I say f you, stoopid conservatives. I want my electric car and the infrastructure for this better and cleaner technology, I want my mag-lev trains, and I don’t want Nuclear Energy, becuz the risks outweight the benefits. And I want the kids to keep on reducing, reusing and recycling. I want them planting vegetable and fruits.
I actually agree with you here.
“don’t sweat the little geek details ”
Thereby reinforcing my point. You are a-scientific. You claim the existence of a thing, but then say it doesn’t exist because of those self-same niggling little details, because you don’t understand them. You don’t/can’t speak the language of science, yet claim expert knowledge.
The climate is a dynamical system, with inputs and outputs, forcings and feedbacks. The very fact that you don’t understand how seeding aerosol nucleation is important demonstrates this.
Science is not picking and choosing what backs your POV, all the while denying what is inconvenient to you.
Because of the results of CLOUD, ALL climate models have to be rethought, because they have underestimated this by a factor of ten. TEN. Do you understand just how glaring that is?
Firstly, dumbass, was I or was I right about black holes being theoretical, so you’re little geek come back was moot.
Now as for the cloud experiment, like I said, our efforts within planet earth is more important than doing anything about cosmic rays, maybe we’ll be able to do something to further protect our atmosphere, I hope so.
But I say, we keep on our path of disengaging from oil. Because in the end, we all know where this will lead, at least in the minds of conservatives, “It’s not our fault, hallelujah, let’s pollute some more!!!” Simple minds are predictable.
“Firstly, dumbass, was I or was I right about black holes being theoretical, so you’re little geek come back was moot.”
1. You can’t directly observe them anyways. Idiotic comment by you number 1, proving you don’t even understand the spew you’re producing as “expert” knowledge. However, you can observe their effects, and they exactly conform to theory and prediction. Look up Supernova 1987A, and see if it didn’t conform to prediction. And it did.
“Now as for the cloud experiment, like I said, our efforts within planet earth is more important than doing anything about cosmic rays…”
2. Aerosol nucleation is crucial in cloud formation, which blocks solar insolation. Which is part and parcel of Atmospheric Physics. That you state it’s unimportant is dipwad comment by you number two. Dipwad comment number 2a by is that you somehow believe that people believe we can “do something about them.”
“…maybe we’ll be able to do something to further protect our atmosphere, I hope so.”
3. Thereby proving my point that science to you weeping Liberals is all about what you want it to, not what it is. Mob science, not what IS. “Protect our atmosphere.” Well that a-priori supposes we are severely affecting it, which was the entire point. Evidence shows we are NOT. Convincing yourself otherwise isn’t science – it’s more akin to you being a Raelian, and thinking Nemu is a-going to come and whisk you away to his alien planet.
“Simple minds are predictable.”
4. Yes, you most certainly are. Thanks for noting that so well.
Oh, and thanks for continually changing the topic each and every time I prove you have no idea what you’re speaking of.
Frankly, you are not even at a Freshman understanding of this subject. You don’t understand Physics. You don’t understand Astronomy. You don’t understand Atmospherics. You don’t understand Planetary Science. Apparently the only thing you understand is standing on a soapbox, making claims you can’t even adequately explain, let alone understand.
1. And still you don’t know how they form, hence still in theoretical stage, dumbass. OR if you know how they form do tell us.
2. Can we or can’t we do anything about it, that’s my point. If we can lets, if not, let’s concentrate on current research already offering us results in anti-pollution. Simple.
3. Like I said, we are polluting this world. You can’t deny that, if you do you’re retarded. The question is to stop or not to stop. I’m with stoping pollution.
4. You were a pogue in the Army, youre a geek, so of course you have all the details down, but my question has always been about the big picture,
So do we go back to more pollution now, now that it’s not our fault? Answer that.
Oh, as to the “Geek” comment, yeah, certain for sure, a Veteran of the 2nd Brigade, 82nd Airborne is a “Geek.” What are you? A veteran of the 2nd flaming mariposa brigade?
Civilian Puke. Now get down and give me 50.
I’m pretty sure you were no grunt.
You people are actually getting beat up by this ‘Reality Bites’ joker, I’m going back to Driscoll’s blog. Jack Dunphy should be ashamed of his readership.
Maybe with respect to firearms and self-defense; in the realm of science, he the village idiot.
Just answer my question, this isn’t Science Club, geek.
Sure, sure. Answer what question? The one where you think everything boils down to you calling people “Geeks” or “Dumbass” as your answer to everything?
What stunning scientific acuity. I am impressed.
We’re done here. All you’ve done is demonstrate that you effectively know nothing.
Good night to you. Airborne “D” and Hooah to you.
So you think Palin/Perry 2012, will yell, “It’s not our fault, here’s our CLOUD science to prove it, let’s Drill baby Drill!!! Pollute some more, do away with the EPA and environmental laws, let’s turn back our calendars to 1970s, when companies and factories can pollute with impunity!!!”.
Sadly, I think so.
“Maybe with respect to firearms and self-defense; in the realm of science, he the village idiot.”
Sadly, Allston, I just cut you up into pieces, like I did Root and other gun/self-defense experts here. You see it’s not science, it’s the politics of science. And sadly, Perry/Palin 2012 will try to use this important piece of research to justify more Oil and more Pollution, it’s going to be called the “It’s NOT our fault” doctrine.
It’s funny how Allston practically gave his CV just to “prove” he was a science guy and then when Reality Bites called him a geek, he started hooah-ing like some spec ops Airborne ranger. What a loser. Self-esteem issues I suppose. People, this is the internet, don’t feel compelled to give your personal information to trolls.
Not cut to pieces troll, just weary of your immaturity
It was you who self destructed into your emotional fits of rage, declaring clearly documented verifiable legal truths to be non existant, over and over and over.
At least I tried to remain on topic, sort of, considering riots and potential self defense are somewhat related…
Now I see you are simply a stark, raving mad lunatic, screaching on and on about everything from Black Holes, to electric power and pollution.
At some point in a childs tantrum, the parents simply have to walk away and let them cry it out.
Please find some appropriate counciling for your out of control emotions, before you become the next, pathetic, school shooter.
Response to post #36, the inaptly named “Reality” does the same, claims his background. Perhaps you failed to note that.
Post #52 “Reality” politicizes science, which is nonsense. Lotta accusations, no facts.
See? It’s very easy to respond in kind.
Oh yeah, I’m an Independent, I make no secret of this here. But explaining that is pointless, as to people such as him and apparently you, anyone who disagrees with you is a NeoCon.
What parodies you guys are. Pure, simple parodies.
Folks, please stop feeding the trolls. Let’s use some common sense. Let’s be smart. End this, no excuses.
yeah, in a pissing contest with online trolls, youre the one who gets wet with piss. ignore them, allston. don’t make a fool of yourself.
To my friends here, sorry, I wasn’t trying to boast of my accomplishments. It is what it is, and I am not egotistical about it at all. I humbly believe I am blessed by a beneficent God for my fortune and luck, and for being a Conservative to boot.
from Wikipedia:
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response.
In Japanese, tsuri (つり) means “fishing” and refers to intentionally misleading posts whose only purpose is to get the readers to react, i.e. get trolled.
In Korean, nak-si (낚시) means “fishing”, and is used to refer to Internet trolling, as well as purposefully misleading post titles. A person who recognizes the troll after having responded would often refer to himself as a caught fish.
In other words, don’t be stupid.
Yeah, you’re correct, I for once allowed myself to buy into the nonsense. My apologies.
I guess you are blessed by a beneficent God, Allston.
I’ve been caught by this sort of thing as well, attempting conversation with someone who’s
a. foaming at the mouth with adolescent hormones, (insert here, teenagers exhausted from up all night playing over-stimulating computer games)
Note the adoration that ReallyBiteMe exhudes for high-tech holy grail gadgetry…wanna bet he has an ‘altar’ of all the latest electronic gear before which he nightly worships? A base guitar, speakers and a 52″ tv are in his room, count on it. Maybe a signed photograph from Al Gore is taped to the wall, alongside the poster of Kurt Cobain.
b.person flying high from drug/alcohol use (insert, most of the hip young adult college crowd)
c. person frustrated by serial relational entanglements (the hook up generation)
I can relate with the dilemma of what amounts to trying to nail jello to the wall. Won’t happen.
Until kids (you can tell from all the emotion it’s a kid) like ‘ReallyBiteMe’ crash and burn in their own dark night of the soul, they must rage: usually after half a lifetime wasted believing the lies of the left, they come around.
Well, Sule, I made the mistake for once of buying into it. As I’d said, my mistake. No lessons like the ones you teach yourself.
Good points honey , but go easy with letter “C” will ya?.
My money’s on the fact he aint NEVER been laid.
Nev-er.
Ranting loser has so much time on his hands here because no girl will even talk to him in the real world.
Closest thing he’s ever had to sex were the Atomic Wedgies he got when they stole his lunch money.
EEEWWWWW, cant imagine doing such a loser freak.
Especially one who wouldnt even let me defend myself with a gun against a rapist. I’d have to protect HIM on a date.
LOL!
Got that right, girl!
I was going to comment about women and CCW needs, but he’s sucha creep I didnt want him “touching” my comments with his disease.
*gag*
Sheet, girl, my man’s got some big sausage, I ain’t ever need any other man. Damn, girl, he a bag of chips and then sum.
I was going to comment too, but I had a dildo in my mouth and a black man inside me.
He informed and entertained.
EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, your black penis just jizzed all over my Christian mouth!!! Plz. give me some more.
It means that an intelligent person who does stupid things is still stupid. You are what you do.
I love how this conservative site, went ga-ga over one single troll, and they couldn’t even shut the troll’s ideas down. Frankly, I’m with the troll regarding protecting the environment.
Root ’83 and Allston, what part of STOP feeding the trolls don’t you understand? Be mindful that this is a respectable blog, so again STOP FEEDING THE TROLLS!!!
ED,
Aside from trolls, how about the moderator?
We’ve all had posts not “make the cut” before, presumably becuase they went off topic.
No biggie.
But THIS jackass?
WTF! Is there ANY policy at all?
Sorry, I blame PJM for some of this atrocity as well.
The best way to avoid trolls is not to respond, no matter how correct they are or valid their statement seem to you. If you’re riled up and feel challenged at a very emotional level, think before you write. Unless, Jack has time to moderate or if he can assign one, we are really left to police our own here. The trolls win if you feed them. Their threshold for “success” is response from you.
“And sadly, Perry/Palin 2012 will try to use this important piece of research to justify more Oil and more Pollution, it’s going to be called the “It’s NOT our fault” doctrine.”
I LOVE THIS, WHEN’S THE LEFT GOING TO REALIZE THAT THE BIBLE BELT CHRISTIANS & CONSERVATIVES ARE ALSO BEING ENVIRONMENTALLY CONSCIOUS. THE LEFT DOES NOT HAVE MONOPOLY ON STEWARDSHIP OF OUR ENVIRONMENT. I’M GREEN & I’M CONSERVATIVE.
yeah right, and all these unprecedented heat waves, earthquakes and storms is NOT our fault,
ergo we don’t have to do anything about how we humans interact with mother nature.
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