Drunkblogging Tonight’s GOP Debate
4:45PM Anderson Cooper is moderating tonight’s debate, which fills me with a special kind of dread, over and above the usual. As a host, Cooper has that rare ability to reduce the sum total of charisma in any studio to less than zero. Scientists call this “the Eric Stoltz Effect.”
4:48PM Wow. David Gergen looks incredibly lifelike.
4:52PM At least Fox and MSNBC give me something to make fun of during the preshow. This panel is just… hey, maybe Cooper is just off-camera.
4:57PM CNN has protestors. This is like protesting Wonder Bread.
4:58PM Oh. It’s Occupy Las Vegas. Why is that a thing? Unless you’ve got cash — and these people, by definition, don’t — then Vegas will ignore you like the prom queen does the chess club.
5:00PM Here we go…
5:00PM Horses, waterfalls, and big red rocks. This is… Las Vegas?
5:01PM I don’t know who this announcer is, but he’s doing his best to fill the audience with dread. That job could be outsourced to — anywhere, really.
5:02PM Hee-Haw. Now there was a show with an intro.
5:03PM Who told Bachmann that Tuesdays nights in Vegas is Sailor Night?
5:05PM Where’s Chris Christie and Sarah Palin?
5:05PM We’ll take a moment out for the national anthem.
5:07PM Trivia: Romney and Santorum sang along.
5:08PM You see what I mean now about the Eric Stoltz Effect. You thought I was making that up.
5:08PM Nice moment from Santorum about his daughter. Best wishes to her, all snark aside.
5:09PM Cain: “I’m a 42 year businessman, which means I solve problems for a living.”
5:09PM Mitt Romney: I did business, too.
5:10PM Romney sounded defensive and un-frontrunnery there.
5:10PM Perry: “A genuine conservative, not a conservative of convenience.”
5:10PM Newt loves Vegas and hates Obama. Big cheers.
5:11PM Bachmann: I’m thrilled. And also an admiral.
5:11PM Big Guy in Audience asks about getting rid of income tax and replacing it with a sales tax.
5:12PM Bachmann: Give congress a new tax, and it won’t go away.
BUt the question was half about getting rid of a tax, yes?
5:12PM Cain is on half the screen and he can’t WAIT to talk about 9-9-9.
5:13PM Every time he says “Herman Cain dot com” I think of Ross Perot always reminding us about his 1-800 number.
5:14PM Santorum: Cain means well, but 9-9-9 will raise taxes.
I’m dubious, too. Although I can get fully behind the 80 Proof Plan.
5:15PM Cain: Look at my totally unbiased analysis prepared by totally unbiased people I hired.
5:15PM Bachmann, I swear to you, just raised her hand.
5:16PM Bachmann is still talking about the VAT, which is not part of 9-9-9.
5:16PM Perry: “I love you, Herman, but… ”
Replace “Herman” with “Steve” and that’s how it started every time I got dumped.
5:17PM Perry is coming on strong, just as he has in every other debate, except last week’s. That one was bad all the way through.
But will he fade in the last 30 minutes as he usually does? Dunno. But right now he’s strong.
5:17PM CNN is proud to present tonight’ Herman Cain Debate.
5:18PM Paul: 9-9-9 is dangerous.
5:18PM Paul: Would replace the income tax with “nothing.”
If only he were approaching sane on foreign policy…
5:19PM Cain: No one understands my plan.
I guess it’s not as simple as he claims — but he’s holding his own, not losing his cool.
5:20PM Romney has just usurped Cooper’s job. Looking quite presidential doing it, too.
If you think this is on accident, you can’t handle your liquor.
5:21PM Very deftly done. Romney turned his turn as Cooper into a mini stump speech.
I’m in freakin’ awe.
5:22PM Newt: I can’t condense his gag, but let’s just admit right now that Newt is the only genuinely funny person on this stage. Maybe in politics today.
5:23PM Bachmann: I’ll tax you bastards back to the Stone Age.
Not really. But she does want everyone to have skin in the gave, “even if it’s just a dollar.” Good policy. Bad politics.
5:26PM Perry: Has not read Mitt’s 59-point plan. But then, neither has Romney.
Unfortunately, Perry’s talking Texas solutions — energy, not jobs. He’s not running for Governor of Texas of the United States. He’s running for President. But he’s not nationalizing his campaign.
5:27PM Romney: “We’re an energy rich nation that acts like an energy poor nation.” And then… Romney deflects back to all kinds of jobs. And repealing ObamaCare. National stuff. This is why he’s held steady while Perry has collapsed.
5:28PM All kidding aside, Cooper is moderating this debate far more evenly than last week’s. Everybody gets to speak.
Tip: If you invite a candidate, ask that candidate questions.
5:28PM Related: If the drunkblogging is more serious this week, that’s because the debate is.
5:29PM Santorum just stole Romney’s time, trying to use the same maneuver Romney used with Cain.
It didn’t work.
5:30PM Romney 2012 reminds me of Kerry 2004: A pure debating machine.
Please note that Kerry lost.
5:30PM Romney: “I didn’t get the job done in MA” on health care.
5:31PM Newt just said, “Let’s stay focused.” That’s like Lindsay Lohan saying, “Let’s keep my knees together.”
5:32PM Newt’s just going to town on RomneyCare, MA, and Washington largess to keep it going.
5:33PM Romney: “We got the idea of an individual mandate from you,” Newt Gingrich.
5:33PM The Herman Cain Debate has turned into the Mitt Romney Debate.
5:34PM Hey, Michele? I have worn epaulets since my last time out on safari. Just sayin’.
5:38PM Piers Morgan looks like Stephen Fry’s less talented younger brother.
5:38PM To Ron Paul: What part of ObamaCare would you like to keep?
5:38PM And then Paul burst spontaneously into flame.
5:40PM Same question to Cain.
“It’s a disaster.”
5:42PM Perry: “We have one of the finest healthcare systems in the world, here in Texas.”
But – we also have tons of illegals without insurance. And they come here looking for jobs. Which we don’t have. And Mitt hires illegals because he’s a big hypocrite.
Wow. Not a good answer.
5:42PM You know what? Republicans got sick of the Illegal Nannies debate back around February, 1993. Perry’s not doing himself any favors here.
5:44PM Perry: Mitt’s lying about never hiring illegals.
Drop it, Rick. It’s a lousy issue.
5:45PM New topic: Will you build the fence?
5:46PM Cain really looks bad on the electric death fence thing.
On the other hand, Electric Death Fence would make an excellent name for a rock band.
5:47PM Perry: You can build a fence, but it take decades and billions of dollars.
Instead, he wants “strategic fencing” and high-tech solutions.
Strategic Fencing would make a terrible name for a rock band.
5:48PM Bachmann just hit Obama for his illegal cousin and aunt, which is an excellent blow to the capillaries.
5:49PM Also, Bachmann would build a fence THIS HIGH.
5:50PM Perry: “I’ve been dealing with this border for ten years.”
And I know this puts me outside current GOP thinking on the issue — you’re shocked, shocked by that — but I’m sympathetic to Perry’s solutions, even his statewide Dream Act solutions.
5:51PM Aaaaaaan Mitt steps up to look all elevated and presidential and stuff. I think there’s a switch in his pocket.
5:52PM Perry just got booed, soundly, for calling Romney “the problem.”
5:52PM Audience Guy: What is you message for legal Latinos?
5:53PM Newt: I know many different kinds of immigrants, including Botswanans.
5:55PM Paul: “Remove these incentives” to illegal immigration. “To attract Latino votes,” stop treating them like a special interest group. “See them as an individual.”
5:56PM Cain: My message to minorities is: “We must significantly boost this economy.”
That should sell better than Jesse Jackson Jr’s new permanent welfare plan.
5:56PM Perry: “You get to ask the questions, I get to answer like I want to.”
5:58PM Bachmann might just support repealing the 14th amendment because of “anchor babies.”
5:58PM I for one, have never endorsed or engaged in the practice of using babies for nautical purposes.
5:59PM Santorum is talking, but all I can do is look to his left and wonder when Ron Paul will buy suit jacket that fits properly.
5:59PM Santorum: “I’m for jobs, too.”
Worst line of the night.
6:00PM Paul: “Bring the troops home.” His applause line of the night. This isn’t the GOP electorate of 2004.
6:02PM Paul: The nation doesn’t have the right to use Yucca Mountain for nuclear waste.
6:02PM Romney: “Congressman Paul was right on that.”
And Ron Paul just burst spontaneously into flame.
6:03PM Perry: “I agree with Mitt who agrees with Ron Paul.” And then something about how he likes France.
France just burst spontaneously into flame.
6:04PM Audience Guy: Fix the housing bubble for us.
6:05PM Santorum: I’m against TARP. That’s how.
6:05PM I think Santorum and Perry have tied first for Biggest Flailers.
6:06PM Perry: I hate TARP and love deregulation.
Santorum: I’m equal to Perry tonight!
Perry: Sh*t.
6:07PM Romney: I hate actions on the part of government and love economic recovery.
It’s a bold statement, but he Just. Might. Mean. It!
6:08PM Cain: I made mistakes, but I’ll get government “out of the way.” But I think he stumbled when he said he’d “reform” Dodd-Frank. Red meat demands “repeal.”
6:09PM Bachmann: “I talk to moms.”
6:09PM From Twitter: Explain and Co-opt Occupy Wall Street.
6:10PM Cain: Get a job, you filthy hippies.
I paraphrase, but not by much.
6:11PM Paul: “Cain has blamed the victims.” And then something about the Federal Reseve and bubbles and SQUAWK SQUAWK SQUAWK SQUAWK.
6:11PM There were wild cheers, a few, to the chicken part.
6:12PM Paul: “I work on the assumption” that government is bad at almost everything.
And now I relove him.
6:13PM Romney: Let’s not talk about me in 2008, let’s talk about Obama in 2011.
6:14PM Commercial break. Or “refill,” as we call it here at Casa Verde.
6:18PM Up after the break: Gun control!
And I will use my psychic powers right now to tell you that the people on this stage are against it. Except for Romney who was for it before he was against it.
6:19PM Email Question: Is personal faith an issue?
6:20PM Boos, a fair number of them, that Mormonism is a cult.
6:21PM Santorum: Look at the result, I think is what he’s saying. “It’s a legit thing to look at…” but not in a way derragotory to LDS.
6:21PM Newt: No rush to judgement in how “others approach God.”
6:22PM Wow. Newt isn’t afraid to offend the GOP’s atheist and agnostic wing, which consists of me and some other guys.
6:23PM Perry: Is a man of faith, and maybe there’s nothing wrong with Mormons, and the First Amendment and values and our freedoms of religions that can’t be taken away and our expressions of opinions and fact and faith that Americans understand and everyone knows that Obama suck.
I don’t think I paraphrased.
6:24PM Romney I think just made LDS kinda cool with a flippant remark I can’t remember because of the fifth scotch.
6:25PM Nice moment between Perry and Romney. First time they looked like equals on that stage.
6:26PM Next topic: Defense cuts.
6:26PM Prediction: Paul likes them, but no one else does.
6:26PM Michele? A fourth conflict in a foreign land is not “historic.”
6:27PM Bachmann: Libya is not in Africa.
D’oh!
6:28PM Newt: “We’ll be grateful that [the supercommitee]” is only mostly stupid. I had to paraphrase, because of the scotch.
6:28PM Newt would make an excellent prime minister. Does he not know we don’t have a parliamentary system?
6:29PM I think Ron Paul just promised to “cut you bitches up” on the budget.
6:29PM I think I respect that.
6:30PM Paul sounds like an idiot on the Empire subject — we spend less on defense, including wars, as a percentage of GDP than we did during the ’50s, when we were at something like peace.
6:31PM Cain will not negotiate with terrorists, unless there are facts.
6:32PM Santorum: You can’t negotiate with terrorists, even when there are facts.
6:33PM I’m man enough to tell you when I need to go potty. And that’s during Ron Paul’s current answer.
6:34PM Lady in Audience: Why do we have foreign aide?
6:34PM Perry: Wants to have a debate about it.
I hope it goes better than any of his recent debates.
6:35PM Romney: It’s complicated.
This is Number Two in the list of things said to me right before I got dumped.
6:37PM Romney is nodding at Paul as though… hell, metaphor fails me.
6:38PM Bachmann: “Israel is our greatest ally.”
Whether or not you think Israel deserves our help — and I think it does — that’s just a silly statement. Israel has fought shoulder-to-shoulder with us… where?
6:39PM Cain: “Peace through strength and clarity.” And, if I may add, the ability to blow the stuff out of stuff.
6:40PM And there’s Ron Paul, winning points by bringing up Iran-Contra.
I’ve never even done that drunk.
6:44PM Topic: Who can beat Obama?
Correct answer: Something with a pulse, or perhaps without one.
6:45PM Santorum: I don’t have any name recognition!
6:45PM Santorum: I won a swing state! Back in the ’90s or something!
6:46PM In case you hadn’t guessed, this is the Beat Up Romney Topic. It’s OK — the frontrunner always deserves that.
6:47PM Romney: Have you seen my presidential suit and my presidential hair and my presidentialish record?
6:47PM Perry: Romney is a Democrat and I make jobs in my sleep.
6:49PM Oh, Mitt — we all know Perry used to be a Democrat. That’s a lame issue, just like the one he used against you, early.
And then, in a moment of uncharacteristic weakness, Romney opened it up for Perry.
6:49PM Romney is recovering quite nicely, but he didn’t need to spar with a guy whose numbers are falling faster than me down an escalator after last call.
6:50PM Cain: “No, I should be President.”
Also: I’m a lot like Romney, other than that nasty Wall Street stuff he’s done.
6:51PM Bachmann: “Cake is big!”
Did she really just say that???
6:52PM Also, Michele? “Pastel patriotism” was a GHW Bush line, not Reagan.
6:52PM Newt: I’m a winner! Or something. Time is short.
6:52PM A Quick Wrap in just a sec.
6:57PM I make fun of CNN — and of Anderson Cooper — for being staid, ordinary, and unexciting. But the fact is, I don’t much watch Fox News. It’s too bombastic for my tastes. I don’t much watch MSNBC, because I’m sane.
So when I want cable news, I usually tune in to staid, ordinary, and unexciting CNN.
And I’m glad I tuned in tonight. It was a good debate they put on — the best so far.
I know that’s a low bar, and I don’t mean to give CNN praise it hasn’t earned. It wasn’t a great debate. But it was a good debate — about what you’d expect from staid, ordinary, and unexciting CNN.
I won’t bother you with picking the winners and losers. If you watched CNN, you can do that yourself. And if you only read the drunkblog, well… I made my biases plain, and I expect you’ll still be able to fairly pick the winners and losers.
But I would like to thank Anderson Cooper for sucking all the charisma out of CNN, and for moderating a middlin’ decent GOP debate.
Ready for another special episode of “Gotcha TV.” =’[.]‘=
Does CNN really think that being drowned out by the OWS chanters in the background is a good idea? =0[.]o=
Perry is a joke, his support comes from illegal Hispanics.
There is no way the imbecile can beat Obama.
The person Preston that wrote this article must be a Liberal.
Romney is the only one that can beat Obama…………
Sarah Palin as Romney’s VP……..Drill Baby Drill..
Sheriff Joe to replace Janet at Homeland Security.
Jeff Session to replace the crook Eric Holder…
Bachmann or Herman Cain to replace the other crook Salazar at the EPA..
Allen West, Mark Levin, Michelle Malkin all somewhere in Romney cabinet.
Now we be talking!!!!
Those loud chanting protesters in the background make me remember the value of fire hoses and tear gas.
CNN opening with the national anthem? Kinda reminds me of when my cat pretends to play chess by pawing at the pieces. It’s kinda cute because you know she hasn’t a clue about chess.
Ples, Herman Caine has a better singing voice.
No bells. Do we need intros at this point?
Rick Santorum going for the crucial fans of Hallmark moments vote. Both of them.
Damn, Herman starts strong. It’s too bad he can’t be President.
Everyone’s a job creator!
Repeal the 16th Amendment first. Then a sales tax — constitutionally capped. On goods & services, excluding food, clothing, primary residential real estate and medical care.
Wouldn’t a sales tax on services=income tax?
Absolutely not. An income tax requires that citizens report their income and its sources to the government, and lends itself easily to all manner of intrusive social engineering through the tax code. With an income tax, it’s easy to tax Peter to pay Paul. A sales tax applies equitably to everyone who buys things, and requires only businesses to report income.
Gov. Perry is biding his time …until 2014
Apples, oranges, lions and tigers and bears , oh my!
At least Cain’s 9-9-9 plan is shown to be as fruity as it is.
This is a lot better debate than last week
Ron Paul has the best point – if the government spends the money, it comes from *somewhere* and that *somewhere* always turns into a tax. If you want fewer taxes, you have to cut spending.
Agreed. But I think that point was made waaay before Ron Paul was an itch in his Daddies shorts!
Newt, good in debates. Trying to stay above the fray.
@Robert L.Mayo LMAO!
Drill here right now in North America.Weve been sitting on it.Stop importing oil from totalitarian regimes.
“My plan…”
“His plan…”
“this plan…”
“that plan…”
too many plans……stay tuned next week someone will introduce a “New Deal”
Did you ever notice that Rick Santorum always looks like he is smelling something bad?
Yup, my vote goes to chronic reflux. At least to explain Santorum’s grimace.
Huh. Perry passes on an opportunity to attack Romney, while Santorum jumps in with both feet! =@[.]@=
someone finally challenges Mr “vote for while you hold your nose”
Is Rick Santorum taking down Romney for Cain’s benefit?
But Mittens, I don’t want to be forced to buy a product from a private company either.
Shh. You’ll ruin the narrative.
Romney is having a strong debate so far. I’m actually moderately impressed with our weasel. …I mean nominee.
Romney is a great debater, as he is top shelf at turning things around and deftly not answering anything of substance while making you think he did. If he is the nominee, we are done as a society.
Fool! We are done as a society if Comrade Obama gets a second term. Why can’t you idiotic “true conservatives” understand that?
‘Cuz some of us really feel that if Romney gets the nomination, he’s only a step above Obama. Doesn’t mean we won’t vote for him, but that’s how we feel.
Yeah, why is it that they just don’t want to support a pro-gun control, pro-abortion, pro-illegal alien, pro-Big Government health care “Republican” who got beat like a redheaded stepchild by the guy who got beat by Obama LAST time around?
Stupid Conservaties. You’d think they’d have learned their lesson when they passed up the opportunity to support Arlen Spector, Dede Scorfezza, and Mike Castle.
Yeah, it will really suck to have 4 more years of Obama. That does not mean we should elect Romney. He’s a dealbreaker. Choose any one of the otehrs, and we can all support him. Romney is not the only one who can win. In fact, he may be the only one who can lose, because of how angry he makes us on the Right. Choose someone else, okay? Why do you think it has to be Romney? What a ridiculous premise. Sheesh.
I don’t get it, Mark. Given a choice between a practicing, avowed communist dedicated to “fundamentally transforming” our Country and a guy who just ain’t quite a perfect “true conservative,” you’ll choose the communist. Maybe I need to work on my definition of idiot.
Exactly, you don’t get it. It’s FAR better a open adversary like Obama instead of a fake friend like Romney. It is -and always has been, a matter of Principles, not of just being practical.
With Obama openly destroying the U.S. you have a chance of denouncing the Evil and fight back. With Romney destroying the country at a lower pace you can’t, because he was your choice after all. The Dems will laugh at the obvious hypocrisy and then they will get the next chance to speed up the destruction.
It’s the veritable forest, trees thing.
Unfortunately, our country is simply not ready (& may never be) for a true conservative to be its POTUS. On our side, we must work with what we have. It would be nice if some of these obstinate “principled” posters among us would consider this perspective. There is simply no excuse whatsoever to support the likes of Obama, no matter who on our side is running.
I’ve got to (grudgingly) hand it to CNN. I like this debate format better than the others.
+1.
1) Santorum is really living up to his name. He had a chance to make a good shot at Romney, but he wrecked it by trying to talk over instead of using his response time to actually make his point.
2) Gingrich is once again looking like a candidate I’d love to have. Too bad he has more baggage than a cruise liner.
3) Romney did a decent job of defending himself on the elephant in the room. Better than I’ve seen him do before.
Ron Paul blazes a trail. It’s to the planet Florndip, but it’s a bold trail!
a little worried about Cain when he is not talking about 9-9-9…..
Mitt doesnt like to be attacked…..first Santorum and now Perry…..i think we finally see Mitt’s campaign weakness (besides Romneycare, lack of conservatism, etc.)
I’m no fan of Romney, but I have to disagree. He and Cain have both held up well under cross-candidate examination.
but it seems Romney is complaining about Debate style than anything else. yes he is holding his own but i see this more of a weakness if there are say…..a debate between 2 instead of 7.
It’s on, baby!
It’s about time people started pinning Romney on Romneycare but Santorum needs to take a chill pill.
Gingrich for the win thus far. He’s been like the dad that has been breaking up the squabbling children. If that statement’s true, that makes Ron Paul the grandpa on the couch watching paint dry.
Grampa Simpson.
Ya know, if the government would quit messing up the low-end labor market there would be plenty of jobs…. just sayin’/
Did Perry just respond to a healthcare question with an attack on illegal immigrants?
Also, Romney, much as I’m not a fan of his, is kicking ass in the parry and thrust of this debate. Perry looks like a yapping dog.
That’s the first time I’ve seen Romney put put some steel in his mittens. Oh boy did you just hear that? Romney just said that he told the lawn care company “I’m running for office, I can’t have illegals working here.”
So it was a campaign move not principle. I knew it, I’m just surprised he accidently admitted it.
Herman Cain — kickin’ ass and taking names!
If you could take Newt’s ideas, Paul’s economic philosophy and shove them into Romney’s brain, we would win in a landslide.
Romney would need implants for principles and a spine, first.
Why not just vote for Newt, if we all like his ideas best? He’d be a good president; I’m not sure what justifies the assumption that he’s unelectable.
I’m voting for Paul, electable or not, but it seems to me that people with a more conservative outlook on foreign policy should be supporting Newt, rather than Romney or Cain.
Uh oh immigration. Good answer by Cain.
Fence not enough, there are tunnels.
Perry’s answer decent, his problem is with his delivery.
Rick Perry has the right idea about the border.You can build a virtual wall.Use Predators to track the drug smugglers and human smugglers across the Mexican border.
If Perry wins , make sure he makes room for Cain.Likewise for Cain.I like Romney but hey healthcare is big albatross to wear around his neck.
Herman Cain is the adult in the room.
+1 Like
Not a debate. A game show.
Even though I disagree with him, Dennis Miller had the best snark on the virtual border fence – “If you build a virtual fence, you’ll have my virtual support.”
A virtual fence will fail. A physical fence will fail.
The problem with illegal immigration is that the government has regulated out most of the lower end of the wage scale. As long as this demand can’t be fulfilled legally, illegals will have jobs. Whether it’s right or wrong or good or bad… it’s supply and demand. Standing in the way is doomed. Fix the economics and the problem will go away.
I would completely disagree – the problem is simply far too much labor compared to available jobs. That’s even without factoring all the immigrants, both legal and illegal.
If labor was valuable because of a limited supply, there wouldn’t be a need for minimum wages laws and the like, since labor itself would be in demand that employers would compete for it.
It’s why Feudalism was eventually dethroned – the Black Death make labor such a short supply (as opposed to surplus) that workers were able to move to different jobs and employers had to compete for their services.
Wow, recycling economic arguments from Thomas Malthus. You’re in the good company of Marx, Lenin, Mao, Keynes, etc….
So if there were just fewer people willing to flip burgers, they could all make $30 per hour? Your pay isn’t based on how many people you compete with, it’s based on how much value you add.
Not so. Illegals also take other jobs, like construction. They undercut by $5/hr, and often get no benefits either. They simply are a big problem, no matter which way you look at them. As long as our streets are paved with gold (free social net stuff), they will keep coming. They will stop when tehy drag us down to their level of abysmal poverty.
Newt get in there and break up the Governors. Santorum put grandpa Ron’s eyebrow back on.
Perry is really harping on anecdotal evidence from 20 years ago. Next thing you know he will claim he “didnt inhale”
Someone in the audience front row pulled a Hannibal Lechter and is wearing Wayne Newton’s face.
And Herman Cain stays on message!Thats my man right there.
It’s a shame that Newt is unelectable, he knocked that Latino question out of the park. Perry is imploding.
Does anyone else notice how terrified the professional politicians are by Cain’s 999 plan. Take all the special breaks out and how can they get campaign money?
Congressman Bachman says “there is a real issue of magnets in this country.”
Run! The Godless Magnets are attacking!
Comment of the night.
I live to serve.
Lol, magnets…what do they mean?
The country that controls magnetism contols the world!
And epaulets!
What the hell Anderson? Repeal the whole 14th Amendment? That’s a bit extreme. If you want to repeal an Amendment, the 16th will do.
While he doesn’t call it such, Cain’s plan basically is a “Value Added Tax”. The 9% National sales tax will apply to everything, just like a VAT
As much as I like Cain, his tax plan kind of sucks.
There is a big difference between a national sales tax and a VAT.
A Value added tax is added into the price of the good before being placed on the shelf. You don’t get to see what is the real cost and what is the tax.
With a sales tax, the item is placed on the shelf with the real price and the Tax is added at the register. With a sales tax you KNOW how much you’re paying in taxes. A Value added tax can be raised, adding a few cents to the cost of your good and you’ll probably never notice. A VAT is a tax-and-spend politicians dream.
I don’t think it’s the same at all. It’s a national sales tax like states have. VAT tax is on every piece of the product process.
Ron & Mittens, the federal government owns 90% of Nevada.
uh oh someone finally has noticed the 10th amendment.
Cooper is doing OK so far, I’ll give him that.
His bias is under control.
Well, until Perry gave him lip. Anderson doesn’t take lip well, unless…well better not go there…
Did Bachmann just burst into tears on stage, telling moms to not get foreclosed upon?
She gave her verbal support, but no solution. Just hang in there ladies.
Ron Paul just sounded Presidential.
In other news, the oceans boil and the moon turns to blood.
You are hilarious tonight. Giving Mr. Green a run for his money. You might get banned.
I’m here all week and remember to tip your waiters and waitresses.
Perry in 2013: “We’ll have a lot of discussions.”
Romney does have a point….it seems Perry has come unprepared on how to fix the unemployment issue.
The only reason Texas doesn’t have high unemployment is because (1) They’ve got oil, and (2) They didn’t have a housing bubble, due to a quirk in Texas Real Estate law which existed prior to Perry coming to office. There’s no magic juju stick that Perry waved to create jobs.
Is it possible to take 30% of Ron Paul’s ideas, 30% of Newt’s ideas and 40% of Cain’s ideas, and then have them delivered by Mitt Romney?
Great speaker and far and away of all the debaters, he has that presidential look.
If I thought I could trust Romney to be conservative, for even the first two years, he’d be my guy, but how can you trust a guy who changes postions faster than most people change underwear?
A Frankenstein monster type of candidate…that’s a new idea.
Elect a majority conservative house and senate.
It’s halftime. Where’s Andy Levy?
Michelle Bachmann: “Hold on moms…for one more day. Things will go your way. Hold on mom one more day.”
don’t answer that Mitt, stand up for him you guys
Did you notice that when Romney and Perry were arguing, Romney put his hand on Perry’s shoulder? I think he was trying the Morman nerve pinch.
Were back of persons faith. Again
So intoxicated, can’t focus on Bachmann. Bring the Cain! Where’s Perry? And Paul is like Almond Joy, He’s gone Nuts. Romney, Bored. Santorum, I’ll listen to your radio show once you land that gig after this ‘cuz you are not going to win the nomination. Newt should mostly campaign at night, mostly.
LOL!Nice sum up so far.
Nice Aliens reference. lol
When the 9% tax goes into effect, the consistent stream of goods and services will become cheaper. By the time a gallon of milk gets to the store, it is half taxes. Farmer, MilkerGirl (in very short cut offs – hey, its my analogy), trucks, storage, bottling and store… man a lot of taxes get put on that bad boy – and much higher than 9%.
Competition (still a good thing) will drive the prices much lower. Flat taxes saved Russia (not necessarily a good thing…we’ll see), and are being much more considered in other places.
Cain’s plan puts us ALL into the game. We ALL have skin in the spending crap.
As for the polluticians, they will have to leave their hands off – everything they do will add taxes – and that will suck for them.
Unless we have reached the edge and actually crossed over into ‘we gots to keep the free crap coming’ so no one with any smarts gets elected.
The Mormon comment is a non-issue. It is a distraction. The propaganda media are running with questions which do not matter to keep from discussing things like the economy which do matter.
Seriously, there are so many reasons to dislike Romney that even mentioning his religion is downright silly at best and counterproductive at worst.
I gave Cooper some rope, stupid me.
Hitting the religion note is asinine.
Newt trying to look Presidential. Perry was struggling, but that seems authentic. Mittens has a canned, well rehearsed talking point. Depends upon what you want.
I’ve joked that Perry is just GWB 2.0 before, but frankly, I think he might be even worse at debating than Bush was. Ye gods, he’s terrible.
concur
Cuts need to come to the military.But keep it real America.You spend the majority of your income on social programs that have grown fat and corrupt and really needs to cut out.Turf those who bluffed their way onto the job.
There is no bluffing a marine who fights for his country.There is no bluffing special forces ops who take out the trash like OBL.
Um, Michelle, Libya is part of Africa.
Oh God, Ron on defense. We aren’t the Swiss.
Ron says lock all the doors and stick the guns out the windows.
Damn, I am now changing my mind every debate. Seriously……….I like Newt! Know ya’all missed me. Late getting on here…..not late on the vodka.
“GOP’s atheist and agnostic wing, which consists of me and some other guys.” I’m one of them too. I’ve done some research on this point. There are more of us than you might think.
A few years ago I crunched some numbers from the Pew Center on religion in the US and polling data on the voting patterns of atheists and agnostics. I came up with +/- 5 million of us.
*Raises hand.*
I would still prefer to associate with a sincere Christian, Jew, or even moderate Muslim than I would a snotty, superior, self-satisfied Liberal atheist. The person of sincere faith really isn’t gonna try to run my life, whereas the Liberal atheist’s whole worldview is based on the notion of knowing better than I how I should run my life. =^[.]^=
No disagreement here. The minority of atheists who are loud mouth jerks demanding we ban Christmas trees and Rudolph, give the vast silent majority of us a bad name.
For Christians, imagine if the only “public” examples of your faith were the crazy TV preachers ripping people off and smoking meth with make hookers at night. That’s kinda what it feels like being a decent conservative atheist in America.
amen, brother.
Yes Ron Paul, the British empire went into Afghanistan in 1839, and decolonized after WW2. So you’re right, the last big empire did fail after going into Afghanistan. Just omit that century in the middle.
He was referring to the USSR, during the late 80s
Aw, I can’t make fun of that nearly as effectively.
Good call though, no idea how I forgot that.
Foreign Aid
Goody
Send the UN to Brussels
Ah yes, foreign aid. The one line item in the entire budget that a majority is actually willing to cut. We cut it all, and we drop the deficit by, like, half a percent.
Is it possible to have Ron Paul go to the bathrooom or something during any foreign policy issues. He can come back for the domestic stuff, but good Lord, he makes isolationists seem hawkish.
dude is spun
I think they left him up there to spite the repubs
Perry: defund the UN
me: organism
Yes Ron Paul lets leave South korea ,Germany,and the middle east.Germany has a generous social program because the US military is there.South Korea has generous social programs because the US military is there.Japan has generous social programs because the US military is there.
We pull out , then its end game for humanity ,and dictators and tyrants will settle old scores.North Korea will decide to cross the 38th parallel.Russia will bully Germany due to being their main supplier of energy.The Mideast is a mess except for one country ,Israel.A single beacon of light in a land of darkness.
Now the LRA will get their asses kicked for violating human rights and using child soldiers.
Got any other bright ideas Ron Paul?
I think he said something about sending nukes to France or something. A lot of what he said was beyond the pitch range that my ears can handle.
The South Koreans not only spend THREE TIMES as much on their military as North Korea does, their military budget is bigger than North Korea’s ENTIRE ECONOMY. Add to that the fact that North Korea’s best military gear is some of that cutting-edge 1960s Soviet/Chicom technology, and most of that is likely unfieldable due to a lack of maintenance and spare parts. Plus they actually have a missile with the extremely intimidating name, “No Dong”.
The South Koreans can handle KJI on their own.
Bachmann’s 999 as a VAT was a softball just waiting for Cain to smack out of the park and Im sorry that he didn’t. When she said that the 9% corporate tax would just be added to the price of the end product (like a VAT) I was almost screaming at the TV for Cain to say something like “Rep Bachmann, how the 9% corporate component of 999 works exactly like it does today, except instead of 9%, the corporate tax is 35%, and it *is* added to the price of everything you buy!”
Bachmann, “Israel is our greatest ally”? I’m sure that Canada and the UK will love hearing that one.
*cough* Australia *cough*
Australia fought in Vietnam, which is more than I can say for the UK or Canada.
Also, Australia has never been at war with the United States of America, which is also more than I can say for the UK or Canada.
I live in Canada, so I’m a bit biased, and simple geography makes us much more tightly integrated than the US and Australia will ever be. The UK gets a nod out of simple scale. But yes, there’s probably a dozen countries who are more significant American allies than Israel.
Cain isn’t doing well in the 2nd hour.
As a rule, Cain does well in his comfort zone — which, to me, is uncomfortably narrow.
I’ve got no problem with Herman as chair of the Federal Reserve.
Well then, you should have no problem because he wasn’t the head of the Fed Reserve. He was the chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City or something like that.
Agreed about Cain to both Lakas and Stephen, but frankly the foreign policy stuff doesn’t scare me about him as he’s never be privy to the secrets, and who knows what the president gets to see in the first week. Plus if a president has a question about a foreign policy issue you can get briefed by 20 experts in 10 minutes flat.
I need a small government philosophy and a business guy who has looked at HR rules, P&Ls, investment decisions, someone who knows the BS obstacles government puts in the way of regular businesses.
This, exactly. I think everyone gets his first Foreign Affairs briefing as President, and decides that suddenly this job isn’t fun anymore. At least Cain seems to know that much. “Heavy is the head which wears the crown.”
Newt: I worked with Reagan!
I think newt will get a bump out of this debate.
what’s up with the prison-motif podiums ? i keep waiting for somebody, in a moment of frenzied response, to start shouting, “attica! attica! attica!”
I can’t beleive I missed that gag. Well done, sir!
Perry needs to do something drastic or he should pack up his toys and go back home. He has shown he cannot play with the higher up field. I think he jumped into the race expecting to win without having to do anything….or something.
“Anderson, Anderson? Anderson! Anderson!! Anderson!!! Anderson!!!! Anderson???”
If Bachman can’t handle Anderson Cooper, how’s she going to handle Iran?
Last minute back and forth will be great OBAMA commericals for next year. Might has well called each other a bunch or booger heads.
Goog druk bloggin. I am on my fourh.
*Hicup*
Well done Stephen.
Well done Stephen. Hicup!
I really think it is a bad joke to thank Anderson Cooper for sucking anything out of anything.
What scotch were you on when you wrote that?
A steaming, piping got bowl of poo to the Left. Eat hearty!
This debate was a real downer. The country is saddled with the worst President in history. Yet I saw no one in the debate that has a prayer of winning.
Actually the arithmetic isn’t good for Republicans. Obama will raise or maintain benefits to 75%, while Republicans will fight tax increases on 25%. Haven’t been in school for years, but I think the math favors Obama. Had a Republican challenger emerged who was actually competent, maybe the country could have some hope for a change of direction. Alas, that isn’t the case.
Perry is the biggest disappointment. How in the world did he manage to win every election in Texas?
Texas is Texas and in Texas you don’t beat on your own chest in public and Perry is uncomfortable doing just that. Not a good recipe for 21st century one minute soundbite television, but a damned civilized way to behave. Calvin Coolidge could not have gotten elected in this environment either.
I can tell you that Romney does the one thing that will infuriate a Texan in a New York minute and that is getting in his face and wagging his finger at Perry when he wants to show his righteous indignation. Perry, being a Texan, needs a little more space to be comfortable. He interprets this as fighting behavior and he would like to oblige Romney and kick his ass.
That all said, someone else can carry water for Perry this time. I got my fill of it when George Bush could never express a complete thought in this silly debating environment either.
By the way, thanks for the entertaining blog Mr. Green.
Mr. Green, that was damn funny. I’m your biggest admiral. Really.
P.S. — you might fix that typo in the Q from the Latino audience guy before someone calls you a racist or psychoanalyzes you or something.
I’m still in for Cain. The one’s who are labeled as having chances to win like Perr or Romney both seem to be only mild elevations from BO.
Liked your coverage of the debate better than the others.:-) You can cover a news event even with both hands tied behind your back and only a straw in your mouth to get to the drink.
Every liver has its limit. As Butch said to the Sundance, How much longer can you go on, Kid?
Perry: “I’ve been dealing with this border for ten years.” And I know this puts me outside current GOP thinking on the issue — you’re shocked, shocked by that — but I’m sympathetic to Perry’s solutions, even his statewide Dream Act solutions.
I’ve never seen a Mexican immigrants family, I’m in Texas, who had the money for the kid to go to college in or out of state tuition; it’s not a money issue. We may all be hypocrites but Romney, as Perry points out, is too; the Tejanos came for that job, not college. However, the way the Republican race has gone so far, let me try an analogy: it’s like women were supposed to prove they were virgins when they got married, the Republican electorate is going to decide their candidate is the one most clearly virginal on the subject of illegal immigration. Everything else is negotiable, not Obama, if need be, we’ll talk.
I sure hope that they get rid of this 30-second response thing, Perry and Romney seem to be gaming it to hog the camera. Someone will shortly find that they can keep attacking Ron Paul and make it a 2-person debate that cannot be lost.
Gingrich (again) seemed to be the only person on stage to see what was really going on. The more I see Newt debate, the more I forget he’s “unelectable.” Which is what they said about Reagan. If the economy double dips next year, Nixon’s corpse could beat Obama.
Near three in the AM. Guess everyone’s long gone. There’s a guy name of Joe with his head resting on his folded arms on the bar, sound asleep. And a second guy name of Anonymous on his back on the pool table, snoring like a bear. No one else in the joint but Greeny the bartender.
“What’ll be Ace,” says Greeny. “The usual?”
He’s already moving toward the Smokey Mountain whiskey I favor. Picks up two single shotglasses in one meaty mitt and pours Tennessee’s finest to the brim of each glass with the other. Sets the glittering cut-glass jewels down on the bar before me, losing nary a drop of amber liquid. Bends and retrieves a frozen mug from the fridge under the back counter, tips the frosty mug to one side under the Budweiser spigot and pulls me a cold one. Sets it down, splashing suds on the dark wood as he always does and immediately wiping them up with the bar towel over his shoulder.
“See the debate?” he asks.
“I saw it,” I say. “Romney kicked Perry’s ass. Too bad. I like Perry. Though Romney is the only way to go if you want to be sure of beating Obama.”
“Yeah,” says Greeny. “You got that right.”
He’s wiping stemware with his towel, sliding tulips and balloons upside down into the laddered rack over his head. Not listening to anything I have to say. Once he winds up a customer, Greeny tunes out. If you aren’t ordering a drink, his ears are firmly stoppered. PJM is a low dive. I’ve known that since I started drinking here.
I throw back a shot. Wash it down with cold beer. Mop the wet mustache left behind on my sleeve.
“Tell you who impressed me was that Bachmann,” I say. “They say Romney looks the most presidential in the Republican lineup. Ask me, it’s Bachmann. That lady carries herself like a national leader. Anyone says different is sexist.”
“You’re right about that,” says Greeny absently.
He watches me knock back the second shot. Chug-a-lug what’s left of my beer. Down the hatch. I signal I’m ready for another round. Greeny is already scooping up two fresh shotglasses.
“Met a friend of mine on my way here,” I say. “Guy agrees with me that Perry saying a border fence would take fifteen years and thirty billion dollars to build is total bullshit. Hire the Israelis, I say. They’ll do the entire job, soup to nuts, with American labor and they’ll be happy for two billion dollars.”
“Why go to the Israelis? my friend says. We have better talent right here in New York. Remember Wollman Ice Skating Rink in Central Park? Koch said it was impossible to rebuild. The job would take six years. Donald Trump said he could do it in six months and he did.”
Two females walk in just in time to hear my last remark. I recognize them from the neighborhood. Middle aged and single. Dog-walkers I seem to recall. I’ve seen one or both pooper-scooping after their ratty little pooches on the street or in Riverside park. I remember gratefully that it was the Koch who passed the pooper-scooper law.
“Donald Trump is a fascist pig and a barbarian.” says the female closer to me, parking her ample rump two bar-stools away. “Donald’s father built the ugliest buildings in Brooklyn, now Donald is building the ugliest buildings in Manhattan.”
”What’ll it be, ladies?” Greeny asks.
They order a whiskey sour and a gimlet. The ladies are showing their age but if Greeny is put out, he doesn’t show it.
“The way my friend sees it,” I continue, “Donald trump would not only build a wall along the border, he would put in shopping plazas and hotels and a sports arena and a casino. Turn the whole thing into a going enterprise that pays for itself. Mecca for shoppers and leisure lovers that would provide good-paying jobs for citizens both sides of the border.”
Greeny sets down the women’s coctails carefully on coasters.
“See the debate, ladies?” he asks them politely.
“What debate?” the two women ask in unison. Then the one further away asks, “Is that Anonymous sleeping on the pool table again? Why don’t you throw him out?” she asks Greeny.
“”Best let sleeping dogs lie,” Greeny allows philosophically wiping away overlooked wet spots on the bar. “This one is last call” he tells me. “Tomorrow is another day.” I nod for a last round.
“I thought Bachmann looked real good tonight,” I say to no one in particular. “Bachmann-Palin or Palin-Bachman. Either way, that could have been one hell of a Republican ticket. I’d pull the lever for those two American beauties in a heartbeat. Liz Cheney for Secretary of state. Paul Ryan for Treasury. Giuliani for Attorney General. That would be a my dream ticket.”
“Hey!” yelps Greeny coming around the bar. But he’s too late. The women are already out the door, their barely touched drinks still on the bar. Greeny stands in the open doorway under the buzzing, shorted-out and intermittently winking purple neon PJM Saloon sign, hollering after them. “You didn’t pay for your drinks, goddammit!
Fat lot of good it does him. He goes back behind the bar, tosses the deadbeat women’s drinks in the sink and begins shutting down.
“Do me a favor,” he says to me. “Nudge that no-good, no-name sonovabitch on the pool table. Tell him I’m closing up.” He nudges Joe. “Time to go home, Joey boy. The wife’s waiting.”
Five minutes later, we’re all of us on the street, Greeny locking up and Joe resting his head on the roof of a Prius parked at the curb. Anonymous is doubled over at the back of the parked Toyota, retching noisily into the gutter.
I’ll be on my knees worshiping at the toilet bowl myself before sunrise. Just one or two after-hours places downtown to visit first before my long night’s crawl is done.
I say goodnight to Greeny and wave down a yellow muzzmobile racing by toward the Park. It lurches and skitters to a halt.
“Alphabet City,” I tell the driver getting in. “East fifth and avenue C. Go across Central Park and take Second Avenue straight downtown. And go easy over the potholes, I’m three sheets to wind and yawing a bit.”
I try to make out the name on his hack license but the light is too dim. He’s got the scraggly beard, though, and the open knit skullcap and he’s driving a cab so there’s no mistaking where he’s coming from.
“Is East Village, no?” he asks, pulling out.
“You got that that right, Mohammed,” I say. “The upper West Side is going beddy-bye. You hear the debate tonight?”
“Is beautiful night,” he agrees. “Is no winter coming still. I think is global warming.”
In my opinion, Newt Gingrich won the debate.
I agree with you. In fact, Newt has won all the debates thus far, in my opinion. I don’t care about his baggage; I want someone strong who knows what the heck he’s doing. His quick wit reminds me somewhat of Reagan, and people do like a good laugh.
A recent article analyzing the “9-9-9 Plan” by editors of The National Review Online:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/280306/bold-brash-and-wrong-editors
The Hoover Institute and The Heritage Foundation also have related budget articles.
Response to “X” who replied to post #22:
“Exactly, you don’t get it. It’s FAR better a open adversary like Obama instead of a fake friend like Romney. It is -and always has been, a matter of Principles, not of just being practical.”
What is practical about having a completely leftist idealogue who skirts the constitution regularly in his quest to attain his goals? Romney may be a two-faced snake-oil salesman but he does not strike me as the type who would refuse to work with Congress the way that Obama has done.
With Obama openly destroying the U.S. you have a chance of denouncing the Evil and fight back.”
How exactly can we fight back other than to vote out Obama & the Dem majority in the Senate? We can denounce the evil until the veritable cows come home but what good will that do as long as Obama remains at the helm of the WH?
“With Romney destroying the country at a lower pace you can’t, because he was your choice after all.”
Romney strikes me as being quite malleable; IOW, he can be steered into the appropriate direction. This can be a good thing under certain circumstances, such as that of having strong conservative leadership in both houses of Congress. Obviously, this is not bound to happen with Obama.
“The Dems will laugh at the obvious hypocrisy and then they will get the next chance to speed up the destruction.”
If we manage to get that strong conservative leadership in Congress, as mentioned above, the Dems will not be laughing; they will be seething.
Bottom line, it’s foolish to throw away a vote against Obama simply because the GOP elite’s chosen one doesn’t suit you to a tee.
Meant to say “What is principled about having a completely leftist idealogue….”
I can forgive Newt for his lack of morals, he still looks like the best choice to me.
The nation needs a great motivational speaker and Cain is the guy that can get Americans working again. He lifted thousands of his employees off their buttocks and got them quickly serving hot slices of pizza to waiting customers. If elected president the lazy will become extinct, no work no pay will be the motto of this great motivator.
Cain hasn’t served a pizza in 25 years. He wouldn’t know a hard days work if it slapped him in the face. He does not motivate me with his list of glib one line answers to every question he is asked. He is like a damned broken record. I am leaning towards Gingrich, but even Cain would be a better deal than the communist in the White House.
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