Drunkblogging the GOP Presidential Debate
4:43PM I don’t (yet) have a horse in this race, which gives me a freedom of action tonight that not all right-leaning bloggers enjoy. And I’ll take complete advantage of that. But please remember that no matter who the nominee ends up being, I would almost certainly chew on barbed wire for the chance to vote for him or her over President Obama next year.
Which means that when I say “Ronulan” or “Palinista” or “Bachmannite,” I say it with love for the candidate and for you.
Well, except for you Huntsman people. Assuming you exist.
4:49PM Here come the candidates. If you squint, you can just see past Mitt’s hair and Rick’s teeth.
4:49PM It’s so cute how they let Newt and Huntsman up there with the big candidates.
4:53PM Watching Chris Matthews and Howard Fineman handicap the candidate reminds me a lot of eunuchs teaching the benefits of abstinence.
I think maybe this goes for Peggy Noonan, too.
4:55PM What’s with Bob Shrum tonight? I’m thinking his face is on a Lollipop Guild milk carton.
4:56PM Good Ron Paul ad, except for the part where he leaves out that he loved Reagan so much that he left the party in ’87. And then he resolutely stayed out of the party until he wanted a seat in Congress.
5:01PM Hey, MSNBC talent and crew — raise your hand if this is the first and last time you’ve ever been to the Reagan Library.
5:02PM Shocker: Americans think the economy will get worse, even though the President has scheduled a very big speech, just tomorrow night.
5:03PM First question goes to Perry: “Why does Texas suck?” I’m paraphrasing here.
5:03PM Perry looks comfortable. “We created one million jobs in Texas.” That’s his selling point, and he hit it fast.
5:04PM Follow up: “Seriously, why does Texas suck?”
5:04PM Mitt Romney is looking at Perry likes he’s a t-bone. And not in a gay way. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
5:04PM First question to Romney: You sucked as governor, huh?
5:05PM Mitt: “We created more jobs in MA than Obama has in the country.”
5:06PM Mitt sounds like a CEO, or an guy seeking startup money. I’m not sure if that’s a plus or a minus at this point.
5:06PM Yeah, it’s a minus.
5:07PM Perry followup: “I like Mitt, except for all the stuff he did as governor.”
5:08PM Whoa — seven minutes in and we’re going to talk to a third candidate already. Wait — almost. MItt gets a rebuttal.
5:08PM Mitt: Perry’s inflated claims like “Al Gore claiming he invented the internet.” Red meat for this crowd.
5:09PM Perry: Dukakis was better than you.
Mitt: Bush was better than you.
Yo momma.
5:09PM Nine minutes to talk to… Rick Santorum?
5:10PM Santorum: “I’ve done things.” Um… what things?
5:10PM This format, to put it bluntly, sucks. Eight candidates talking like machine guns in the hands of hyperactive spider monkeys. Not good.
5:11PM Santorum got a minute. Cain is going to get a minute. Feel sorry for you Cain & Santorum people.
5:11PM Three nines? Yatzee!
5:12PM To Huntsman: Is China a currency manipulator?
So much for the red meat — Huntsman just got thrown a big bag of wet tofu.
5:13PM Huntsman: I was on an airplane once with Reagan!
Do a shot for the first Reagan plug.
5:13PM Huntsman: No, I created jobs!
I wish Johnson were here right now.
5:14PM Question to Bachmann: Say something very specific, and try not to embarrass yourself.
5:15PM Bachmann: “Obamacare is killing jobs.” With nice stories to back it up. Goes a long way to taking away the Crazy Eyes image.
5:15PM To Ron Paul: You’re crazy, right? Just tell us.
5:16PM I just noticed that MSNBC is doing Pop-Up Debate! Keep an eye on that for me, please. I have to use my ears, and keep my eyes on the drunkblog screen.
5:16PM Paul follow-up question: No, really, you’re bat-stuff crazy, yes?
5:17PM You know how to destroy a libertarian candidate in a short-form debate? Get him talking about libertarian theory. Brian Williams knows this.
Well done, Mr. Williams. Well done.
What a shame.
5:17PM To Newt: You have a total man-crush on Perry, don’t you?
5:18PM Newt’s funny. But he is SO not the guy to complain about another guy writing a book “just” about ideas. Newt has more ideas before breakfast than most people have cornflakes in their bowl. And most of them get soggy in milk.
5:19PM Pro Tip for Newt: Wide guys should not wear skinny ties. Just sayin’.
5:20PM MSNBC tech glitch. Do a shot.
5:21PM Aaaaaaaaaand we’re back to the Mitt & Rick Show. It’s a good show.
Also, to those NBC “experts” who said Mitt didn’t have to go after Mitt directly? Yeah… that was smart.
5:21PM My DVR software just hiccuped, kind of Max Headroom style. And MItt didn’t really seem that much more robotic than usual.
5:22PM To Perry: RomneyCare rocks, doesn’t it?
5:23PM There’s a theme here, and it’s “Texas sucks.” I think we’ll see a lot of that next year, even if Perry isn’t the nominee.
I’ll leave it to you to figure out exactly why.
5:24PM Perry: Texas has low insurance rates because of Washington.
He may be right, but that will take spin to explain in a short-form debate.
5:25PM You know, on paper, Huntsman really is a good candidate. But he’s in a box of low name recognition, and he’s trying to cut himself out of it by acting like a lefty.
GOP voters just won’t go for that, and he’s tamed it down tonight. A lot.
5:26PM Bachmann: She’s at her reasonable best, she really is. But Mitt was just looking at her like, “I know it’s Perry in that slot and so do you.”
5:27PM Newt: “I’m frankly not interested in your effort to get Republicans fighting each other.”
This is why I love Newt. It’s also why he won’t be the nominee. His job lies elsewhere, and he’s very, very good at it.
5:28PM Newt: “All of us are committed as a team… to defeat Barack Obama.”
As I was just saying…
5:28PM Cain: The individual mandate is not constitutional.
5:29PM In Cain’s Pop-Up Video, MSNBC did everything but put “Baptist Preacher” in scare quotes.
5:29PM Hey, Rick Santorum — I’d forgotten he was on stage. So had Brian Williams until just now.
5:30PM Question to Santorum: Why do you hate poor people?
5:31PM You know how bad Obama is? Santorum sounds really, really good right now.
5:32PM Question to Perry: OK, why do you hate black people?
5:32PM I do beleive that’s the first time I’ve ever heard a GOP candidate say “Anglo” with immediately following it with “Saxon.”
5:33PM Twitter questions!
5:33PM Question to Romney: Bachmann’s crazy, isn’t she?
5:34PM MItt’s saying the technogeek version of “drill, baby, drill.” I think I blacked out halfway through, waiting for him to breathe.
5:35PM Uh-oh. Bachmann’s using numbers. The press will spend 800 million column-inches tomorrow disproving them — especially if she’s right.
5:35PM Question to Huntsman: Bachmann’s nuts, huh?
5:36PM Huntsman: She’s only a little nuts. But I am so very sane, I can speak Chinese.
5:37PM Question to Paul: You’re against the minimum wage, you bastard.
5:38PM Paul: Instead of the usual libertarian rant (which I love), he went after Perry. Or maybe Mitt. I’m having trouble telling them apart.
5:39PM Paul: “A silver dime is worth $3.50.”
This is not the kind of thing you can say in a short-form debate, and still sound like a sane person. Compare it to Groucho Marx’s “seven cent nickel” routine to see what I mean.
5:39PM Perry just went after Paul — reducing his stature and increasing Paul’s. Bad move, governor.
5:40PM Commercial break. BRB after these important trips to the men’s room.
5:44PM Did you know that no matter how you rearrange the letters in “Rachel Maddow,” you can never spell “MILF?”
5:46PM Did NBC just play Sinatra’s “Nancy With The Laughing Face” during their Reagan tribute to remind viewers about the Nancy/Frank nooner rumor?
5:47PM There’s a lot of love on that stage for Nancy.
5:47PM Question to Perry: Why do you hate old people?
5:48PM Perry: Social Security is wrong, and I’m here to save it.
That was pretty weak.
5:49PM Follow-up to Perry: No, really, you hate the old people don’t you?
5:50PM Moderator called “TIME!” just as Perry was obviously finishing a sentence. Lame.
5:51PM Question to Romney: Explain to us why Perry hates old people.
5:52PM Perry on SS: The status quo is a Ponzi scheme.
You know what? It was obvious to me back in the ’80s that SS was a Ponzi scheme. But if you say it out loud? You’ll be crucified by the left and by the press — but I repeat myself.
5:53PM Cain: Let’s be more like Chile! (Or Chill-lay.)
5:53PM Question to Paul: Perry wants to force girls to do things, doesn’t he?
5:54PM Paul: I will not use executive orders to write laws.
But will he sign an executive order to that effect?
5:55PM Bachmann has really been at her best tonight — and also at her most invisible.
5:56PM Perry: “I hate cancer,” unlike the rest of you squares — begging forgiveness from Tom Lehrer.
This HPV thing, some candidates are treading dangerously close to the “vaccinations cause autism” line. And that’s not a good place to be.
5:57PM They’re going to town on the Perry/HPV thing, especially Santorum.
5:58PM Romney is trying to square the circle on this one — and I think he’s doing it. Nice moment.
5:58PM And then Mitt turned it into “I love America,” and into a general critique of Obama. It was a damn fine moment.
5:59PM Newt then and turned it into a debate about homeland security.
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Oscar?
Seriously, bad timing.
6:00PM Paul: “Look at the monstrosity we have at the airports.”
6:01PM Question to Paul: Why do you want the weather to kill people?
6:01PM And… Paul gets baited (again) into a libertarian rant. It makes my pulse quicken — but most people tune out. Don’t take the bait, Ron!
6:02PM Um… Mr. Paul? Telling GOP voters to take money away from the troops to spend it on “whatever” is not a winning move. Mmkay?
6:03PM Question to Huntsman: Why do you want people to die on airplanes?
6:04PM Cripes, but I need another drink. Don’t ask how many.
6:05PM Here’s Huntsman’s problem: He has fine ideas and a good presentation. But he has no natural constituency. Since Rubio won’t take the job – Huntsman for Veep? Thinking out loud here.
6:05PM Question to Perry: Why do you hate Texas schoolchildren?
6:06PM Perry: “I stand by our record.”
If the MSM turns the 2012 election into a question of a GOP governor cutting spending for nice things, Obama wins.
6:07PM Newt, dude, I’m not skinny enough to wear that tie, and I have a hyperactive thyroid.
6:07PM New moderator: Jose Diaz from Telemundo.
6:08PM Question to Perry: Reagan got suckered by immigration amnesty, so why won’t you?
6:09PM Perry just said something smart, but stupid. He proposed putting Predator UAVs on patrol on the border. But wait for the Left to claim that he’d use Predators to shoot Hellfire missiles at migrants.
6:10PM Romney: Business, sanctuary cities, and other “magnets” draw in illegals. And “no amnesty.”
6:11PM Newt: Let’s outsource stuff to Amex.
I know I’m drunk, so did he really just say that?
6:12PM Hey, Rick Santorum — remember him?
Me neither. And that still goes double for Brian Williams.
6:13PM Question to Santorum: You’re gonna round up the illegal into concentration camps, huh?
6:14PM Question to Bachmann: You’re for the concentration camps and stupid-cheap gas, so you’re just crazy, right?
6:15PM It needs to be said again: This is Bachmann’s most mainstream performance on the national stage — and she’s not making any headway.
6:15PM Ouch. I might have to take back my last post, as Bachmann just intimated that illegals are diseased. They’ll rip her apart for that tomorrow.
6:16PM Huntsman dropped the R-word again. I’m pretty sure he’s the only one on stage to mention Reagan by name, and I’m also pretty sure it’s an act of desperation.
6:19PM Paul: Honestly, he’s lost me. No clue what he’s saying. “Fence business” to “keep us in” make him sound like the “angry, constipated chicken” I called him a few weeks ago on PJTV.
Such good ideas. Such lousy presentation.
6:20PM Commercial break. Even MSNBC has to pay the bills. Although since they fired Keith Olbermann, their bills got cut in half.
Yes, even MSNBC is ruled by ruthless capitalists.
6:23PM Lightning round, where the stakes get really big!
I can’t beleive this is a real televised debate.
6:23PM Mitt: I’m not Tea Party, unless I am…
Tease.
6:24PM To Perry: You’re s crazy about raising your hand as these other seven jokers, aren’t you?
6:25PM Note to Perry: Generally, Americans got tired to Texas euphemisms about snakes and stuff around 2005. Too soon, OK?
6:25PM Bachmann: Nothing about snakes, but lots about Reagan. Do a shot!
6:26PM Huntsman: I’m too good to take pledges.
Did you know you can rearrange the letters in “Jon Huntsman” to spell “toast?” Close enough, anyway.
6:28PM Mitt: I love poor people. Or something. There’s a crisis of confidence — because of Obama.
Kudos to Mitt for bringing it back to POTUS. Twice. More like this, please.
6:28PM Perry: Why do you hate the War on Terror?
6:29PM Er, that was QUESTION to Perry.
6:29PM Perry: Really stumbling on this one — bringing in spending and Gitmo and Keynes. His worst moment of the night, nearly incoherent.
6:30PM Wow. Amazingly bad. Perry is going to have to bone up on foreign policy, and fast.
6:32PM Bachmann: Obama has weakened us militarily.
6:33PM Bachmann five months ago sounded crazy on Libya, with outrageous claims of NATO killing 30,000 civilians. Tonight, she sounds measured and sane. Too late, I think.
6:33PM Santorum: I’ll bomb the crap out of crap, like Reagan! (Only Reagan didn’t do that. Shhh.)
6:35PM Question to Huntsman: Why do you hate Republicans?
6:36PM Huntsman: I can get elected and I can lead.
Um… you have to get the nomination first, Mr. Ambassador.
6:37PM Perry: “The science is not settled.”
Science is never settled, Governor — and THAT is the line of attack.
Again, Perry is stumbling on this one. He came in strong, but these last 20 minutes have been weak.
6:38PM Question to Bachmann: Why do you want the Exxon Valdez to crash in the Everglades?
6:40PM Bachmann: Obama wants to turn us into Spain.
If that means brandy and tapas, count me in!
6:40PM Newt: “I would fire [Bernanke] tomorrow.”
No applause? Really? Great line. Maybe Newt muffed it, or maybe Brian Williams has put the audience to sleep. You make the call.
6:43PM Mitt: He loves the troops. And people who don’t pay taxes. And the middle class. And he has a proposal.
OK, if I were an investor, I’d give Mitt some money. As a voter? I’m not sold yet.
6:44PM Question to Perry: Why do you execute innocents so cavalierly?
6:45PM Perry: I kill killers.
Bush scored some points with similar line of thought in one of his debates against Gore in 2000 — but it helped cement his reputation with the Left as (somehow) anti-minority.
6:46PM Cain: I’m for lots of nines.
He’s trying out his own “where’s the beef” line, but it’s not catching fire. I don’t know if that’s his fault, the moderator’s, or the formar’s. Whichever, it isn’t working.
6:47PM Question to Paul: Why do you hate hungry children?
6:48PM Paul: Another lovely libertarian answer, for which he will be crucified.
6:50PM Wow. Brian Williams called the debate to a very abrupt end — practically in the middle of an off-putting Ron Paul ramble.
Coincidence? I wonder…
6:52PM Perry passed the presidential test. So did Romney — but we knew that from 2008. But the question is: Did Romney pass the Perry test?
It will likely take a few more debates to sort that one out.
6:52PM Other than Mitt & Rick — how did the debate go? Give me just a minute to ponder on that one.
6:54PM I’m a small-l libertarian with a conservative temperament, which is a fancy way of saying there was no one candidate on that stage tonight who perfectly meets my views. Although I’m hardly alone in that, I’m sure — no matter what your own philosophy might be.
6:54PM That said — and I’m a registered independent — I am amazingly proud of how this GOP field performed tonight.
6:55PM The venue — the Reagan Library — was as friendly as can be. The moderators — NBC and MSNBC — was as hostile as can be, outside of the darkest lefty corners of fringe talk radio.
6:57PM And these candidates put on a damn fine show. There wasn’t anyone I agreed with fully — as expected. But there also wasn’t anyone I wouldn’t choose in a heartbeat over the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. And I’m not sure I fully expected that to happen.
6:58PM For all the talk you hear in the MSN about how weak or weird or crazy this GOP field is, really what Republican voters face here is –almost– an embarrassment of riches.
6:59PM We have four or five more of these debates coming in the next few weeks, and for the first time I’m actually looking forward to them.
7:05PM And I have to tell you, I haven’t looked forward to a presidential debate since before I was able to drink legally.
Maybe that has more to do with Obama than any of candidates themselves — and I suspect that it does. But I’ll take this opportunity to quote Robert Heinlein, who said that the difference between bad and worse is much greater than the difference between good and better.
And most any of these candidates — even Santorum, whom I despise, and Huntsman, who I think is useless at best — rises above Heinlein’s level of “bad.”
7:07PM And with that, it’s time to pass OUT.
Ready and waiting!
At this point I’m a Perry leaner.
I am looking forward to my Master debating these pathetic scum.
Whaddaya mean? Lieberman’s not even there. =^[.]^=
Scotch poured, ready for the debate !
– Manhattan!
MSNBC using Reagan is so wrong. Btw, I’m drunk commenting via my tablet. I do like Perry. Governor experience. Ah, the trashing of Texas.
I’m DVRing this just in case, but I’ll spend the actual debate time refreshing this page.
But I’m worried for you, Stephen. Between this and tomorrow’s salvation-by-yet-another-speech, won’t you be overly soused?
Stephen’s a pro.
I do not believe this debate will make or break anyone…unless there is an ungodly gaffe. We can espouse all the theories of what this one meant or didn’t mean or why that one blinked and smiled, hell, I’m tired of the crap.
I’m tired of all the daily crap . I’m tired of the media telling us “what everyone is saying” and what they really mean…I’m tired of the fake smiles, telling me what you’re going to do, running full bore at the economic wall..
I’m tired of Obama and bullies like Hoffa…man I’m just tired of the whole thing. I may not be card carrying tea party member, but I sure as heck agree with them most of the time . People telling me they’re crazy is telling me I’m crazy. When i get in that voting booth, I’ll show Obama how crazy I am.
This whole thing is a circus. Our political system has become a circus, Obama is the ring master and the people on the left dance like dummies. Obama andd the union bosses want to run this country, and i don’t want them to.
yes, i’m pissed
Which is why we drunkblog.
I’m about to open a beer. It ain’t a Martini, but it suits me just fine…
The skinny on the mole’s speech.
The bankrupt one says he’s well on his way to destroying America, and talks about looting the treasury of another one plus trillion, masqueraded as a road/bridge fixing plan. But that was the basis of the old Stimulus that started Looters R us.
Bama knows the Republican congress won’t go along with any further looting and destroying of America, and plans to ask the American people to swallow his latest lie: “The Republicans won’t let me solve the jobs crisis”.
At which point, the anointed one’s nose breaks through the south wall of congress. Who cares not about the good of the country, but just the re-election of the Alinsky poster boy? The poster boy, himself. The brown eyed handsome man. Our nation mole that can’t be removed soon enough. Obama’s not working. And his policies are the reason why unemployment has rocketed to the stratosphere.
Over and out.
Dukakis comment is gonna leave a mark.
Interesting plan by Cain, but you have to write it in the Constitution. Make him head of of the Fed.
Oh, Huntsman speaks Chinese.
“If ten percent’s enough for God, nine percent ought to be enough for the Federal Government.” Love that line.
But he’ll never be elected.
Now…where’s that wine?
are we starting yet? i’m already halfway into the bag…
Gee Brian, adhering to the Constitution? How quaint.
No Mittens, I don’t want any government dictating that I buy health care.
Nice, Newt.
Brian: remember, Santorum is a scary Catholic.
Very scary. especially when he’s right. That was about as impassioned and lucid explanation of welfare reform that I’ve ever heard. A true compassionate conservative.
Yeah, you could tell that this is something very close to his heart. Another one who won’t get elected, but I’m glad he’s up there saying the things he’s saying.
He’s a young’un. Maybe he’ll try again in eight years.
No one gets Social Conservatism like Santorum. I mean no one. Wrong election for that. In 8 years, however, if we have things mostly fixed….
I’d love to see Santorum get more traction…probably won’t happen this go-round though…
I do have to ask Stephen: what is your problem with Santorum?
On paper or anywhere else Huntsman is merely the dems short position on Obama’s reelection.
“If you squint, you can just see past Mitt’s hair and Rick’s teeth.”
Now that’s funny, I don’t care who you are.
These guys and gal are all 10000 times smarter, more well read and honest than Obama. More common sense in 25 minutes than 2.5 yrs of Obama.
Perry could smother half the wildfires in Texas with his tie.
MSNBC we don’t want any Libertarian ideas out there.
And Perry hits Paul on the jugular.
– I’m thirsty still!
How dry I am…
Little brown jug how I love thee…
the crazy old uncle needs to go back into the attic….
Doing my best to keep up with slugging my Cosmo. Question: How do I refresh this page without scrolling back to the beginning?
Use mouse right click and refresh.
Someone help me- I agree with something Rachel Maddow said in her commercial. Aieeeee……
We are really down to just 3 candidates. Oh sure, Paul will stay the course. Huntsman and Newt will drop out soon, because of money woes. Cain has a solid following, but I expect he will be gone in another month or so, after these 6 debates fail to move him in the polls.
It’s Romney versus Perry with Bachmann as the dark horse. If Romney and Perry damage each other enough, with the help of the MSM, Bachmann could squeak in. Unless Palin gets in and upsets everything. Doesn’t look like that’ll happen now. She should’ve announced this past weekend, if she was going to at all.
Perry’s only schtick is jobs, but it’s a good schtick. Romney is the “moderate”, aka RINO. Bachmann is the Conservative ideologue. Perry is between Romney and Bachmann politically. It’s a good place to be. I expect he’ll choose Bachmann to be his running mate to solidify the base and to get the woman’s vote. Think Palin redux, but Palin-Lite in all ways.
Um ,
Um, NO. Bachmann is a social conservative masquerading as a political conservative, or (preferably, for her) a Tea Party member.
More than a few social cons and GOP beltway regulars have tried to hijack the Tea Party movement for their own ends. To a certain extent Ms. Bachmann has managed that, but she is very much not a political conservative, especially if you follow Burkean standards.
“I do beleive that’s the first time I’ve ever heard a GOP candidate say “Anglo” with immediately following it with ‘Saxon.’”
I’ve heard it like a million times in Texas.
Yeah, but until fairly recently, Texas was a Democrat state.
The MILF line was priceless.
Thanks.
Why oh why do we get these edgy overly smart lib moderators
whose laser- like focus is just to look important?
Nancy Reagan- that right there is what we in the hinterlands call “A Class Act.”
Actually, Steve, “Nancy with a laughing face” was Ronnie’s favorite song.
SS is a ponzi scheme. I knew it in college in 1985. Moynihan talked about it back then. Perry needs to use the Chile example.
I’m going to have to look up that Chilean program. Obviously, you and Cain know something I don’t!
I’ve noticed that Mitt Romney likes to put words in Rick Perry’s mouth. A lot. =0[.]o=
Thank you Herman.
Lying in regards to forcing HPV injections.
Parents could opt out. ALL of them trying to roast Perry.
Parents could opt out with a notarized request. Not incredibly burdensome, just more burdensome than anything else any parent has to do with any school in Texas.
It was a boneheaded move motivated by an ex-aide-turned-Merck lobbyist. It was too cute, and it would have been a huge boost to Merck’s bottom line. And not coincidentally, Merck has consistently been among Perry’s top contributors.
It certainly smelled like pay-to-play, but, to be fair, he hasn’t had anything like that since.
That’s practically a non-issue.
The people who are going to be swayed by that one way or the other have already made up their minds… I can’t see more than a fraction of a percent of undecideds basing their vote on a vaccination when the economy is in the state it’s in now. Perhaps in boom years it would make or break a candidacy, but not in bust years.
i’m not sure the “moderators” know what the term “ponzi scheme” means….
Ponzi? I think they believe he was a character on Happy Days …
http://peskytruth.wordpress.com/2011/07/19/rick-perrys-negatives/
Mitt- nice defense of Perry. And then- “This President has gotta go… he doesn’t have a clue about jobs.”
The immoderate moderators don’t care about the big issues, but Romney does. Nice re-direct.
His best moment of the night, agreed.
No, Mittens, Dear Liar is not a nice guy. He’s a fascist. A soft, academic fascist, but still a fascist. Stop siphoning around the tulips.
Huntsman… the Manchurian Candidate that has been to Manchuria…
It could be that the purpose of Ron Paul is to make the rest of the group look like liberals.
Huntsman could be a hollywood cartoon of a political candidate.
Ugliest. Tie. Ever.
See Cain for how to wear a Gold tie.
Q to Perry: (again) Texas sukz, esp. in education, huh?
Nope, NOT Huntsman for VP — he’s way to out there on many issues (cap-n-trade for instance). Please, if we can’t have Cain for pres., make him VP.
So far, it really is a three-way race…but I am glad to hear all of the voices up there. It would be good that have all of them except–for the crazy old uncle–close to whoever gets elected. Like Cain in Commerce or Treasury, and Santorum in the administration, maybe Bachmann, too, although wouldn’t she be an interesting Speaker?
Great line for Mitt, though. Obama doesn’t have a clue.
No, Cantor would be a great Speaker. Bachmann would be an excellent whip.
Yes…but what about Cantor? I do love him.
Ah, yes. You Republicans hate Hispanics don’t you.
Geez, couldn’t the Telemundo guy come up with something other than immigration issues? So predictable. Hispanic Americans care about more than that, you professional racist.
Bachmann never answers a question.
Who?Oh, Bachmann
Santorum would make a good head waiter, but not a good candidate.
Bachmann’s wearing her fighting nails and they are scary!
Break now? I had to cheat….vodka in freezer.
That’s not cheating. That’s planning ahead.
Sons of Guns is creating a 12 gauge gatling gun. Might be more interesting. Better than a Street Sweeper.
Bravo to vodkapundit. How do you type so quickly and cogently while downing the Blue Goose? I’m havibg trouble after one Cosmo.
Years of practice, m’dear.
cut off the snake’s head!!1!1
Wait, Huntsman is channeling Tom Friedman? Do not want.
— “4:43PM I don’t (yet) have a horse in this race, which gives me a freedom of action tonight that not all right-leaning bloggers enjoy.”
So, does that mean that we are safe to say that you are not a right-leaning blogger, Mr. Green? Or what? That you are a right-leaning blogger who just doesn’t see anyone of the Ronald Reagan (or, perhaps, Bush 41) mold?
Ask that again in English, please, and I’ll be happy to answer.
Hey, I’ve had a few belts myself. Try to focus.
Tocuhé! I’ll take a look again after I do a quick wrap.
Our beloved vodkaPundit is a Libertarian with Conservative leanings. He’s likely to the Right of you. Since there are no candidates running who match his views, he has no favorites.
Well said, Marc. I know we have our differences, but we always respect one another.
Great. A pox on all of us.
Wow- that question was loaded- “Isn’t it okay to invade Libya as long as we win? Don’t you believe in freedom for all?”
Where do they get these moderators? Talk about in the tank.
Question to Perry: why do you hate science! ?
Oog. Perry needed to take a stronger stance on (against) AGW hokum. He missed the boat on his response. =’[.]‘=
Huntsman reeling backwards at cliff’s edge.
Can we ix nay on the climate BS?
— “4:49PM Here come the candidates. If you squint, you can just see past Mitt’s hair and Rick’s teeth.”
Uh, okay, so your horse is whom? Oh, wait, you have none, so your job is to superficially belittle the front-runners before the bell. Got it. Pass the bourbon.
My job is to call each moment as I see it. I’ll wrap it up after.
Now — you know all this already, because I’ve seen your name here for years.
So what’s your real beef?
My real beef is that if I want SNL shots on conservative candidates, I will tune to the real deal. So, so far, and admittedly I am late to the scene and trying to catch up, you have had nothing good to say about ANY of Obama’s opponents. In fact, you seem to paint all of them as inept buffoons (tho I must admit I share your scorn for Huntsman). But, anyway, I’ll read on.
If you’ll do me the favor of rereading through the drunkblog, I hope you’ll see that my real scorn was for the folks in charge of this “debate.” The candidates were flawed, yes — but NBC/MSNBC really embarrassed themselves.
Assuming they’re capable of being embarrassed, which I doubt.
You are right, Mr. Green. And I am aware of your disdain for MSNBC and its ilk. But still, so far as I have read, and I am ready for bed now, so I will have to finish reading the remaining third tomorrow, the only kind words I have noted from you have been for this shrimpy Huntsman guy who couldn’t punch his way out of a McDonalds sack.
But maybe I’m being too harsh (or obtuse). I normally relish your drunkblogs. Maybe I am just burning out on it all. November 2012 cannot get here fast enough. No offense to you. I remain a devoted fan of your insights and dry humor. So here’s one for the road! Cheers! And Death to the enemies (foreign & governmental) of America!
But Mr. Green is actually amusing. SNL…isn’t.
His job is to provide snark at the expense of all the candidates. And provide some insight. It’s called journalism. Goes with the New Media territory.
Btw, you do not HAVE to be here. You are free to go elsewhere. In fact, it is encouraged. Let me get your coat and the door.
— “It’s called journalism.”
Ah, yes. Journalism. So true.
Perry, you do need a better answer for the AGW garbage. Rick, I’ll give you a fumbleness on your first act on the national stage but don’t it again.
The correct response is: “I don’t believe in man-caused global warming because Al Gore does.”
Go Newt!!!
Not watching the debate, just reading the drunk-blogging while catching up with some work. Also, I’m annoyed Johnson wasn’t invited. In early debates, why not invite everyone? And why let the MSM limit/control the debate? They’re not the GOPs friends.
Are the questions this obviously slanted or have you just decided to edit out all the “we’re just impartial reporters” BS? Not that there’s anything wrong with that. I’m curious as to how bad the media’s going to get this election.
“We will kill you back”. : )
Oops that was me.
— “5:15PM Bachmann: “Obamacare is killing jobs.” With nice stories to back it up. Goes a long way to taking away the Crazy Eyes image.”
I’m sorry, Mr. Green, now, are you a conservative, or a shill for Hollywood Tonite?
Anon: I don’t make the images, I report on the candidates’ efforts to fight them. And I think Bachmann has been most effective at doing jus that.
Oops, sorry, that was me: Dr. L. I need to adjust my settings.
Brian to Rick: “Why is it OK to just kill people?”
Paul is not electable, but I LOVED his answer:
“Because we believe in liberty does NOT mean we have no compassion!”
AGREE!
Ron Paul is the only one who ‘gets it’. How unfortunate that he refuses to improve his communication skills.
He’s a doctor. Once the ink is dry, on the diploma, they become infallible.
Ask any coutry ruled by one. Or any nurse.
and now the MSN trashing…continues.
Note to Newt: The Prez cannot fire Bernanke. He is the Fed Chair. We are stuck with him until 2015, I think. I think you know that, though, don’t you…?
Yes, but
1) they asked him if he’d reappoint him and he said what he’d want to do, and why. Hypothetical answer to hypothetical question.
2) if a new president publicly said he had no confidence in the Fed Chief, wanted him gone and thought the Chairman had misappropriated funds (as Gingrich just did), he’d have the resignation the next morning if not sooner. No Chairman is going to make himself an issue like that.
I’ll drink to that , Mr. Green. Little “l” little “c”. So happy I joined you and your posters tonight.
Thank you, B.
I think that this debate went a long way towards dispelling the image of Perry as a gunslinging, varmint-shooting, anti-granny, D-student candidate. Romney seemed very Presidential and economically literate, Bachman did well, Huntsman failed (as a Republican, anyway), Paul made the others look moderate (except Huntsman, Paul made him look like a lefty), Cain was fine but not enough screen time. And I <3 Santorum, though it does me no good.
The moderators failed miserably. Did they throw right-wing talking points at the Dem candidates last election? Thought not.
But I like varmint-killers. It tells me more about him than any debate possibly could.
See ya’all tomorrow night! Nice job Vodkapundit!
Perry was weak tonight. He is not a good debater. If I’m Obama, he is definitely not the one I’m scared of in a debate.
Best debaters against Obama: Romney, Huntsman, Cain, then Bachman.
Weakest: Perry, Santorum, Paul. Paul really seems to have lost a debating step since the 2008 round, when he held his own mano-a-mano with Guiliani.
I think he debated Brian Williams rather well on the death penalty issue. Of course, the fact that WIlliams debated this question instead of simply asking it does not speak well of the objectivity of journalists, but that’s another story. Perry’s weakest area is healthcare- he’s got to be more specific regarding why Texas is dead last regarding numbers of insured if he’s going to work towards getting Obamacare repealed.
Otherwise, I did not actually see the candidates engage each other very much. They mostly fought off ideological attacks from the moderators, even going so far as to defend each other- on multiple occasions.
I wanted Perry to say, “Well, Brian, if you had a million Mexicans crossing into Massachusetts that state might also have a high rate of uninsured.” Of course, he could not state the truth because the truth costs votes.
— “5:07PM Perry followup: “I like Mitt, except for all the stuff he did as governor.” ”
Ha! True enough. Go Perry! I voted for Mitt at my precinct caucus in 2008 (during which I was conned into volunteering as an election judge for the upcoming debacle — God, that was a long night). Since then my fervor for ol’ Mitt (if it was ever that) has worn off. He has too much of the Kerry in him. Today, I like Perry’s aggressiveness. I like the fact that he’s got the Obama Juggernaut peeing in its pants. He’s no Mama Grizzly, mind you, but he’s on the right track.
You mean, “All wee weed up.”
Can PJTV host a debate? Bill, Stephen, Scott, Glenn, Zo, and Kruiser would do a far better job, with far greater substance and intelligence, than anyone in the MSM could ever even dream of doing.
Great drunkblog, Mr. Green.
I kept bouncing back and forth between the tv and your blog just to get your reactions to the questions/answers. And I definitely agree with your summation — although my two favorites by far were Romney & Perry, I would take any of the eight candidates in a heartbeat over our current president (and I definitely would not have said that during the last election cycle).
None of this matters. The first primary is still ages away. Maybe some low-rent candidate will run out of money and drop out early (or shut down and “drop out” after Iowa) but the bottom line is that none of this matters.
In fact, my only question for the candidates is this: which idiot liked the idea of PMS-NBC hosting a debate in the first place? In the general, I suppose you’d have to negotiate it out with Obama (though trading “No NBC” for “No Fox” seems likely). For the GOP primary though? Why go through with this when you can give them the cold shoulder from all eight republicans and stir up some nice tasty fratricide in the NBC vs MSNBC break room?
Will the next debate be hosted by Media Matters or Moveon.org? I ask only for information.
— “5:25PM You know, on paper, Huntsman really is a good candidate. But he’s in a box of low name recognition, and he’s trying to cut himself out of it by acting like a lefty.
GOP voters just won’t go for that, and he’s tamed it down tonight. A lot.”
*Acting* like a lefty? Well, that’s reassuring. He’d make at least as great a president as the lying empty suit we have now. I’m sorry, but Huntsman is about as exciting as a bowl of potato soup.
I didn’t even know they made caffeinated vodka.
— “5:26PM Bachmann: She’s at her reasonable best, she really is. But Mitt was just looking at her like, “I know it’s Perry in that slot and so do you.” ”
Yeah, I agree. But if Palin announces next week, Mitt will then be looking at Perry that way. Either way, it is time for Mitt to understand that the base does not support him. And in this season, more than any other in recent times, it is the base that is all important. Just ask the Democrats, whose base is as dispirited today as the Republican base was in 2008. The so-called Independents will not be saving anyone this time around. This one will be an election defined by “furor” not “hope.”
The only winning issues!
Cain: 9-9-9 tax reform and individualized social security accounts.
Huntsman: Trade reform and foreign relations reform.
Everything else was the normal political rhetoric Tea Party and GOP lines of today. Sustainable jobs cannot be had until the economy is completely overhauled which will take several decades from if and when anybody comes up with all the right reforms. In the meantime nobody has the answers to stop the nations arterial bleeding!
Oh, I think you’d be amazed what a Perry with a Republican Senate and House could do, and how long it would take to do. Not, miond you, with a single seat majority, but really Republican. The Democrats will offer their children on the altar of Baal to keep that from happening.
Democrats have held massive majorities for almost my whole life, and when Republicans have had majorities, they were razor-thin (Jim Jeffords, anyone?).
Ronny used to say, “Conservatism wins…every time it’s tried.” It hasn’t really been tried since before Wilson. Give it a spin. You might like what happens.
Do you really think Romney wants to try it? Perry does. Palin does, too, but being governor of Texas for 10 years, with his sustained record, beats Palin five ways to Sunday. I trust both of them, but Sarah ain’t Rick, yet. But Rick, with Sarah, or Michelle? Never underestimate the power of the Sisterhood.
Meanwhile, get REAL Conservatives in the Senate, not fakey ones, who faint at the thought of cutting food aid, even with the fattest country on record, and people driving from the store in their new Cadillacs and fur coats, while buying their caviar with food stamps. And prepare to be amazed.
— “5:27PM Newt: “I’m frankly not interested in your effort to get Republicans fighting each other.” ”
This was directed at Bachmann? Okay, she’s been fighting back in some of her adds (do remember that she was doing “unexpectedly” well before Perry declared), but really, her criticisms in no way compare to Huntsman’s generic claim that right-wing radicals (Tea-Partiers, teabaggers, or whatever he chooses to call us) are what really ails the country.
No it was directed at the moderators, who were back to their old tricks.
Stephen,
I don’t think I’ll waste my time watching the drone of any more debates. Reading this is the Cliff’s notes, given by a really bitter, disgusting clinger….like me! God bless you. You’ve spared me from having to listen to MSNBC schmucks, a fate much worse than death. I really can’t stand that shrill young man, Madcow…something.
Yes, Huntsman is, quite simply, a douchebag. Likewise Santorum. Failed lawyers are bad politicians, but political science majors are far worse. Having never done a single useful thing besides getting elected, does not make you qualified to tell me what to do, in my book.
I am sorry for Bachmann. A tough, smart Congressman does not beat a similarly qualified 10 year governor, although if he doesn’t put her in an important position in his administration, he’s a fool. Cain, likewise. Even Mitt. He is smart, a genius, even. But I just don’t trust him (my voice took weeks to recover when the Massachusetts health care thing went through. I screamed at the radio in my truck, until I couldn’t). I do trust Perry. I didn’t like every single thing Ronny did, either. He is largely responsible for overcompensating scummy government workers (why should government compete with private industry for the best workers? Let the lazy scum work for government, since they have no performance standards, and can never be fired, and pay them, accordingly, meaning not much, like always before. I don’t want an efficient government. They do far too many things they should not be doing), which is now a tremendous problem, but I want a dog in this fight, and Romney ain’t my dog. Perry is.
Yes, Newt is a valuable sword, in our arsenal. Do you think that’s the role Palin might play, also? She and Newt are actually very compatible, although their audiences are disparate. Neither one would actually like to be President as much as be popular. Well, we need them, too.
Thanks for the great job. What a wit.
Equally qualified congressman versus an equally qualified governor???
Perry supported Gore!
Perry gets a D- from NumbersUSA on illegal immigration, slightly better than Palins D. Bachman gets a B-, the best of all the candidates. Cain is the only other conservative on this issue.
Perry is a western version of Romney. Period.
Oops! Slightly worse than Palins D.
Do you have a Ron Paul sticker on your car? I thought so.
The virus innoculation, Al Gore, and the Mexican highway, and the illegals (after all, Texas could stop Mexicans from entering Texas by merely shooting them all with predator drones.) What would Paul do? Make a tractor beam, and transport them home? Is he one of those people who links autism to vaccinations? Some Doctor.
The Paulistas are out in force. First, Al Gore was a Blue Dog at the time. Perry was a newbie. I know it’s hard for the simple, but try to keep the dates straight. At one point, Ronnie was a Democrat Union president. You’re right. We should’ve elected Mondale.
Don’t any of you morons remember why Slick Willy won? Both times? Because Ross Perot stole just enough of the vote. From idiots. Just like you.
1) Ross worked, almost exclusively, for the US government.
2) He never ran against Al Gore, even though he might have done much better.
3) He was from Arkansas, like Slick Willy, Arkansas also being a large customer of his. (A coincidence?)
I used to say, when Obama was running, “Please tell me which country, upon getting its first black president, did not fall to the level of a mean, third world, dictatorship. You may use any country you like, including any in Africa. Also, what Chicago pol is known for his verity and class? Answer: None.”
Try this one, Paulistas. “What country has ever flourished after electing a doctor?”
I’ll wait.
Waiting.
Obviously you cannot read. I said that Bachman and Cain are the true conservatives.
Perry is a career politician. If anything, I should appologize to Romney for comparing him to Perry. Romney has real life experience. (Reagan was not a career politician, either!)
You Perry Rinos shure like ad homenem attacks!
5:39PM Paul: “A silver dime is worth $3.50.”
When I was in my 20′s I worked with a man who bought everyone’s silver dimes. He had thousands of them.
Next time I drive down to SoCal, I’m going to spend the night in Simi Valley and visit the Reagan Library. Looks fabulous.
Thanks for another great job, Stephen.
I watched the whole show on TV and came in to read the drunk blog later. My non-inebriated opinions were remarkably similar to those of our Drunk Blogger In Chief, and this poses my question. Were you drunk blogging or am I usually as lucid as the next drunk? Truth is, I thought Perry was not prepared, period I thought Newt was a great pundit, Cain was merciless with the 999 slogan, Santorum was sanctimonious, Huntsman is a global warming evangelist who has no more clue what a scientist is than a politician, Paul thinks we should sell our dimes for the silver and then buy a gallon of gasoline with the proceeds and that is how we get 10 cent/gallon gas for crying out loud in the dark, and I just couldn’t get the picture of that damned kid on the fr9ont row raising his hand every time the teacher asked a rhetorical question and then we all had to hear about how he always knows the answer every time the cameras landed on Romney. At least Bachmann didn’t tell us about her 20 something kids when Mr Sanctimony bragged about the seven he has to match Mr Environut. My conclusion: A yellow dog running against Boobily will get my vote next year.
Genius. Sheer genius.
I couldn’t say it better myself…and I’ve tried.
Please don’t mention Rachel Maddow’s name again unless it means she will hop on her tricycle and jump the Hoover Dam.
Mr. Potato Head,
Let’s refer to RM from now on as Rachel Madcow. Rachel Madcow Disease.
Whether one participant or another won tonight is not the issue. What is important is that there was enough substance on stage tonight that the Kenyan and the pimps who own him must be terrified! All the dem scum, their labor crap, the Hollywood dopers and their movie idiots, the left coast commies, the family members of current and past dem members of Congress who collect the bribes, kickbacks and payoffs must be terrified! The fecal waste that is Obama and the Congressional caucus will be flushed next year and it was evident from tonight’s debate. Just think of all the dem parasites who now know they will be unemployed in 15 months; think on what they will try to steal in the interim!
LOL, Dead Funny. Hey, this is EXACTLY what is needed to keep the public interested with over a year to go before the election, WELL DONE! Stephen. BTW, i dont believe for a second you are having all those drinks, the writing is to good.
Übereditor Aaron Hanscom fixes my typos in realtime, but the drinks are quite real, I assure. A few weeks (months) ago, they had me on PJTV right after I’d finished one of these things and… well… if anyone doubted before, they didn’t doubt after.
Also: Thanks!
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Spammers hitting the political blogs now? Are you in China?
The field of candidates is exponentially better than 2008.
The only one that actually said where they stood was Paul. The others are simply good at dancing. I’m not going to vote for anyone that I don’t completely understand. I’m tired of getting a president that does the opposite of what he said in the campaign. For that I will simply vote for Obama. Ron Paul is clearly the only valid candidate. I am really dissapointed with the crowd. Interesting that the media is not covering Perry physically intimidating Paul on stage.
I absolutely loved when the audience cheered Williams’ reference to the number of executions of murderers in Texas. I have the suspicion that those same people will not like Obama’s speech the next evening.
Regarding Huntsman:
Anyone who has to insist “I am a leader!” and “I can win!” is not and cannot. (Further, in a contest between “pretty full of himself” and “absolutely full of himself,” Huntsman would lose to Barry.)
But at least MSNBC had a fair, open-minded post-debate discussion between Rachel Maddow, Ed Schultz, Al Sharpton, Larry O’Donnell, and Robert Gibbs!
nice article.,,enjoyed reading.
MSNBC Distorted its own poll results to minimize Ron Paul victory.
It is almost an article of faith among conservatives that the mainstream media are biased. After all, about 80% of those in the MSM vote Democrat, support liberal causes and do their best to elect politicians whose left of center beliefs they support.
This bias may often be hard to detect in the writings and pronouncements of pundits, but occasionally the MSM slips up and provides concrete proof of bias that is just too obvious to ignore.
Just such proof was offered Wednesday night after the Republican debate jointly hosted by MSNBC and Politico. Immediately after the debate MSNBC conducted an internet poll to gauge the results of the debate. On its web site under the heading “First Read” the question was asked “Who do you think won the Republican debate at the Reagan library?”
The poll results were presented in the form of a bar chart displayed with the accompanying data alongside. The results were clear: Ron Paul was the winner, and by a big margin.
How big? By more than double – that’s right, Mr. “Unelectable” beat Mitt Romney by 43.5% to 21.5%. The next runner up to Ron Paul was Rick Perry, with 16.4%.
But if you looked at the accompanying bar chart on the MSNBC web site showing the relative magnitude of votes for the candidates in the polling, it showed what almost looked like a photo finish at Aqueduct raceway – nearly too close to call.
Now a lot of folks will give the benefit of the doubt to MSNBC and say that at least it had the correct numbers in the chart, so what’s the big deal? The big deal is that by nature humans are visual creatures more than cognitive ones. We tend to perceive visual relationships much more than numerical ones; numerical relationships require thought while visual ones are apparent at first glance and are persistent.
What MSNBC did was to present the viewer with the visual proposition that although Ron Paul won the debate, he didn’t win by that much, so why get excited about it?
The fact is, the margin of Ron Paul’s victory in the MSNBC poll is huge. Even if, as some might say, the polling was flooded by Ron Paul supporters, isn’t that the point? These folks will presumably show up at the real polls and cast real votes.
When the intentionally misleading bar chart is corrected to show the true relationships, the difference is striking. Ron Paul won big – and very big.
In 1851 the upstart USA dared to challenge the best English yachtsmen to a race around the Isle of Wight. The schooner America beat the British badly. When informed of the loss, Queen Victoria asked the Admiral in charge of the race which of the English yachts had come in second. “Madam – there is no second” was his reply. That’s the inescapable impression one gets about the Ron Paul Victory.
Below are shown the intentionally distorted chart and the visually corrected chart for comparison. The reader can decide how accurate MSNBC was in portraying its own poll results from the Republican debate.
Statistics may lie, but graphics do so far more effectively, and this has been going on for as long as there have been liars and graphics. The definitive text on this deceit is “The Visual Display of Quantitative Information” by Professor Edward Tufte. Acutely aware of the damage to social discourse caused by such misinformation, he writes: “Lying graphics cheapen the graphical art everywhere…When a chart on television lies, it lies tens of millions of times over; when a New York Times chart lies, it lies 900,00 times over to a great many important and influential readers”.
Haven’t we had enough of this?
Dan Haggerty