Don’t Fret Your ‘Fishy’ Complaints About Health Care Reform
This past week, Macon Phillips, President Obama’s director of new media announced (under a heading “Facts are Stubborn Things”) that there was a lot of “disinformation” being circulated about the proposed health care plan and asked anyone who received an email critical of it or who “see[s] something on the web about health insurance reform that seems ‘fishy’” to report it to flag@whitehouse.gov.
Several commenters, noting the chilling effect a database of opponents of the White House might have, suggested that a suit might be brought for violation of the Privacy Act of 1974, a post-Nixon statute that prohibits federal agencies from maintaining records on citizens who are exercising their free speech rights to dissent from government policy (5 U.S.C. § 552).
For example, Judge Napolitano, Fox News’ legal analyst, said:
There’s also a statute that requires the White House to retain all communications that it receives. It can’t try to rewrite history by pretending it didn’t receive anything.
If the White House deletes anything, it violates one statute. If the White House collects data on the free speech, it violates another statute [the Privacy Act].
David Hardy of Arms and the Law expounded further on the issue:
Evan Coyne Malone suggests the request may be illegal under the Privacy Act and the Dept of Justice’s statement about its purpose.
As a recovering bureaucrat, I can point to a much, much, bigger illegality under that Act.
5 US Code §552a(e)(7) commands that any Federal agency
“(7) maintain no record describing how any individual exercises rights guaranteed by the First Amendment unless expressly authorized by statute or by the individual about whom the record is maintained or unless pertinent to and within the scope of an authorized law enforcement activity;”
Persons posting to the web or sending emails are exercising First Amendment rights. I can’t see how gathering this information is expressly authorized by statute, nor within the scope of an LE activity. It doesn’t get much clearer than that.
{Plus, 552a(e) generally requires that agencies collecting information about individuals into a records system, upon establishment or change to that system, publish in the Federal Register a detailed description of that records system, maintain appropriate security, etc.)
I’d say there are glaring Privacy Act violations here. And the penalties, per §552a(i) include fines of up to $5,000, not only for gathering forbidden data, but for disclosing it or maintaining an undisclosed system.
That sounds good. And when you consider that the Privacy Act was passed to deal with overreaching by a president and his staff, you’d have every reason to suppose that it would forbid the present White House’s plan of action.
You’d be wrong, though. Courts have consistently held that the Privacy Act does not apply to the office of the president and that this was by congressional design, which it is without power to alter. In the most recent such case to my memory, Valerie Plame Wilson v. I Lewis Libby, the U.S Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit reiterated that “the Act exempts the Offices of the President and Vice President from its coverage.” And “Congress did not inadvertently omit these [ offices] from the Privacy Act’s disclosure requirements.”
Indeed, the U.S Court of Appeals observed that the Supreme Court held in 1974 in Kissinger v. Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press that the legislative history exempting these offices was “unambiguous.”
Obama should provide legal protection for liberal activists…
http://hyphenatedamericans.blogspot.com/2009/08/obama-should-provide-legal-protection.html
“Are we then at the mercy of a totalitarian regime gathering up an enemys list? Law professor Eugene Volokh, for whom I have great respect, argues we are not:
There’s nothing totalitarian about asking supporters to gather this information. And there’s nothing morally contemptible (as the terms “snitch” and “rat” suggest) in passing along this information, if you genuinely think that the information is misleading.”
RUBBISH!
It seems to me that there is a lack of knowledge of history of “snitching” in former Communist countries (e.g. East Germany, among many others) of this author and the referenced professor.
It’s a pity to have such a confusing (95% about how “totalitarian snitching” isn’t really all that bad, ending with 5% about how the president should “just slow down”…yeah, right, like that’s going to happen anytime soon…) and dangerous article here.
Here’s another writer’s eloquent take on this matter…also not casually brushing off the consequences…
http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/08/09/your-name-in-white-house-database-and-what-it-might-mean/
Pretty good article, but not simple enough for some people to understand, including me.
Collecting information is OK.
Collecting information is not OK.
Snitching is OK.
Snitching is not OK.
Does this statement sum up the message?
“Perhaps surprisingly, the administration is not violating any laws by collecting names of people who oppose the president’s policies.”
And speaking of Pelosi, I hope the administration officials who are engaging in misinformation are also reported to the white house website. And the people alleging that the protestors are part of some vast right-wing conspiracy should be reported too. It may well be the case that this administration and this congress have no idea how angry many people are about the deficits and about the one-way communication. This president does not want people to think for themselves and in particular, does not want them to speak out. And he wonders why people call him anti-American.
Am taking it your referenced “Law professor Eugene Volokh” has not (yet) seen the beyond “fishy”, simultaneously timed, and deliberately worded so as to invoke fear and/or intimidation………….
@mobwatch.
There will be no “blowing” this one off with cutesy rhetoric.
Gee. It’s FUN being persecuted, huh kids? Being VICTIMS and all that? Too bad it’s not true. Not a word of it. But don’t let THAT spoil yer little pity party.
“Waaah! Obama doesn’t LIKE it when we send those lying emails that lie about what his health care plan will do by lying to seniors and scaring them about Obama wanting to KILL them and Sarah Palin’s BABY, too! Waaaah.”
Of course, he’s not collecting NAMES. He’s collecting LIES! A database of the LIES you people insist on telling to SCARE people.
Wanna stay off the list? Stop emailing LIES!
That simple!
Seems to me that this is a great opportunity for self-reporting. I sent an e-mail telling the Obama Adminstration how I have seen reports that they have changed the name from Healthcare Reform to Health Insurance Reform.
I see an awful lot of fear on the Conservative side and it bothers me. The Federal Government already knows enough about you to come and get you if they wish, adding an e-mail address isn’t going to do much else (unless it is threatening and by all rights if you threathen someone they should come and get the offender). Since our representatives are hiding like scared rats on this issue let us take this wonderful opportunity and send a message directly to the source of this power grab. Use the e-mail address for our purposes- let them know how ticked off we really are.
The author could be right. I generally bow to an expert in his field. However, if he is not concerned about the executive office or a government agency gathering a list of enemies, then I really have nothing to say to him. I imagine that most readers of this site do not either.
We are a representative democracy and this administration has proven itself incapable of dealing with truth or dissent honestly. It is a very short step between gathering names and taking action. Especially when those names are ‘spreading disinformation’ or as the author so clearly put it, ‘Finally, I recognize that it’s possible that some “disinformation about health insurance reform” might indeed lead to prosecution or administrative action.’
If this phrase does not chill your blood, you have no business thinking about politics in this country. Pontificate about Russia or China.
It is ludicrous to assume that this administration will keep any of its promises. Much less those about transparency and ethics. I put nothing past a Chicago politician with ties to organized crime.
“What about giving us some?” (facts)
We send them pages of the healthcare bill they are writing on a regular basis!
Hopefully that will help them….
(I guess I’ll just have to get a screen cap of this comment to prove you’re deleting folks who disagree with you!)
I know you ENJOY portraying yourselves as victims, but you’re not. The White House is NOT “collecting names.” They’re collecting LIES! They’re putting together a database of the LIES people are telling about health care, about “death panels,” about all the nonsense that seems to find a nurturing home on this site.
Don’t want to be on the list? Don’t send e-mail LIES!
According to you cats, Santa would be Hitler, too! (And a socialist!)
I have reported your comment to flag@whitehouse.gov. You’re obviously a shill for an organized group of well-funded Nazis out to spread Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt about Il Douche’s Healthcare proposals. This is a clear violation of the Anti-FUD Suppression Act of 2009 and demands immediate investigation.
Discussions about Healthcare are expected to be conducted in a clear and supportive manner, using mature, admiring arguments. All other comments are prohibited.
Now of course if you think that the Administration would prosecute your friend for e-mailing you supposed “disinformation about health insurance reform,” then indeed you shouldn’t help the Administration do it.
This has to be the stupidest discussion I have seen in print in a long time. Are you aware that President Bush collected millions of emails–probably even yours–and no one knows what he did with them. I’ve done a quick google search of your name, Rubin [I hope that doesn't land me in jail], and you had and have nothing to say about that. The fact is that everyone with a brain knew that this wasn’t illegal. I’m pretty sure there’s some polling data showing that your nutbag “precious bodily fluids” rants have turned off the majority of the public, because the dean of paranoid stupidity has also backed off of her “death panel” remark. There’s been quite a bit of silence from your fake-wheelchair, neckbraced victim of alleged union-health care worker violence, as well.
We’re going to see this week that this route backfired–and I think anyone with a brain could have predicted that. You people made Orly Taitz seem rational and composed.
There’s always an excuse for this sort of thing.
” one rat does not constitute an entire plague, and it’s the fleas, anyway, not the rats”. “It’s not really repression , and anyway there’s a law against, well abusing the information they’re gathering. Well kind of.”
As though THAT ever made a difference when the chips were down!
The time to worry about government repression of free expression is while it still makes a difference whether you worry or not.
Either we keep them in line or they keep us in line. No middle ground.
The author wants you to know that she doesn’t think this WH info gathering is a great idea but–and she thought she made this clear–it is not illegal under the Privacy Acy and if Congress wants to make it so it can amend that Act and it doesn’t mean that everyone on that list is going to be jailed. I just want to put a little factual perspective on the issue.
I think instead of imagining sturm and drang consequences of this ill-considered WH requesr, it would be a better strategy to demand full disclosure of the bill (whichever one it is) that the President is backing for a considerable period of time before any vote is taken.
13. Moho. Do you support the concept of flag@whitehouse.gov?
Deep Brain and Moho.. whoa! Does your ‘discussion’ talking points in person ever cause your listeners to look at you in shock and awe? BTW – that’s not a GOOD thing.
Brain, regarding the ‘victims’ retort. Teleprompter Guy has been trying to sell both the American and abroad people as ‘victims’ his entire campaign and Presidency.
What do you think the ‘Hope’ and ‘Change’ moniker is supposed to be rallying against? Your being ‘victimized’ by former administrations.
The dire-like descriptions Teleprompter Guy used to sell you on the ‘Stimulus’ Bill. You know, ‘If we don’t pass this Stimulus Bill, the economy will further slide..’
Teleprompter Guy’s ‘Apology Tour 2009′ when visiting with Castro, Chavez, Europe, Egypt, et al. For these people were also ‘victims’ of the U.S.’ prior dealings.
Moho. Again, you attack the messenger and not the message. Your efforts in doing so are counterproductive to comments! The story is the message! Your use of conjecture is frightening..
BTW, the article was written by a Clarice Feldman, not Rubin.
@ #15 clarice -
I agree with the release of the Health Care Bill in its entirety online. Unfortunately we haven’t been given that offer. So how can people be for it?
Most transparent administration’..?
It doesn’t matter if it’s illegal or not, the disturbing part is that an AMERICAN PRESIDENT even WANTS TO COLLECT NAMES/EMAIL ADDRESSES/INFO ON DISSENTERS.
Who cares if it’s not illegal, why would he WANT TO DO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE???????
Collecting names of people who oppose your ideas or programs is never intended for the good of those whose names are collected. Stalin did it, Mao did it, Putin does it so does Hugo C. Do you think their people feel safe on those lists? Would you want to be on a opposition list of someone in power?
I respectfully disagree here. By basis of 1st Amendment of the Constitution, Congress cannot give the White House the authority to ask citizens to spy or snitch on their political opponents. The 1st Amendment and the Privacy Act are both quite clear on this form of intimidation and the Supreme Court has held against it.
http://smokebreak.blogshevik.com/2009/08/09/the-1st-amendment-the-freedom-of-speech/
Ah, I feel so much better, “pretty safe” says Mr Volokh, can’t ask for more than that can we? More so from an administration that has already established it’s outlook on law thru it’s concern for the takings clause, or at least a flexibility that others may have missed.
If the law expounded upon doesn’t cover the White House then neither do the safeguards that are part of the law apply.
Frightening? You people are frightened of everything!
By the way, its not attacking the messenger to simply point out that the writer isn’t consistent about her worries concerning the government collection of personal data of US citizens. So, thanks for correcting me on the writer–it turns out that Feldman actually has no problem with collecting the information of citizens as long as its a Republican adminstration doing it. Take a look at this, just two years ago:
There has been much debate on the legality of the program [Bush's eavesdropping].All significant legal opinions in areas of new technology and unprecedented situations are debated…the President acted out of real concern for the national welfare and in an area not adequately covered by existing law or procedure.And the Rasmussen poll shows that almost two—thirds of Americans agree with the President that the program was necessary, and the normal law enforcement model using warrants constitutes an archaic and impossible hurdle…
There you have it. Collecting data on citizens is perfectly ok if the President personally feels like he has a good reason to do it; he doesn’t have to tell you about it, it doesn’t have to be legal.
This is what you people never understood over the last eight years–the incredible power you gladly gave the government when its ostensible enemies were portrayed as the people you feared doesn’t go away just because a Democratic President is in power. Do you think that Obama really needs the flag email to monitor you buttonheads? Bush gathered all the power he needs to constantly monitor your every electronic communication without telling congress or the American people. And Democrats cowed by a largely ignorant and frightened electorate helped him get it.
If its true that as your intellectual leader, Glenn Beck, says, Obama has a hatred of white people, that he’s a fascist and a socialist, then you people really are in trouble. Because the previous democracy and free speech President set incredible precedents for the executive to spy on the American people and Feldman fronted for him all the way. The idea of her now fearing the power of a special email address to the White House is just bizarre in that context…
Feldman actually asked for the investigation of FISA judges who leaked clearly illegal activity by the adminstration–that activity was datamining the communications of people like you. Perhaps you, who knows. If nothing else, Feldman is a staunch defender of government secrecy, and anyone who informs the public about illegal government behavior should be put in jail! This is the proponent of your paranoid fantasies about flag@whitehouse.gov.
Lastly, this is Feldman again, protecting the very idea of datamining–that is companies or the government monitoring your internet activity to compile your personal information, without your consent or knowledge:
Just in time for the Hayden confirmation hearings USA Today recycles the NSA survveillance story with hints of nefarious purposes behind the data mining of telephone traffic patterns. I would remind you that this is what happens every day when traffic engineers monitor traffic patterns, when your grocery store discount card provides the company with detailed records of buying patterns, when Amazon suggests you might like a particular book. Data mining and traffic pattern collection is part and parcel of every day commercial life. Would you deny to those charged with our security the right to do what merchandisers do every day?
Enjoy the world you asked the government to create for you.
I don’t think ‘jailed’ is the immediate concern. This information could also get passed on the the New Black Panther Party or the SIEU. What’s to stop them? And then the DoJ prevents them from being prosecuted. Who needs courts and jails?
As far as I’m aware, there’s no precedent in American history for this kind of cozy relationship between an administration and these kinds of extralegal goon squads.
Moho datamining by NSA under the strict guidelines set forth in that program statutorily permitted program is substantially different than asking people to report information critical of a domestic proposal by the WH. The datamining was for a significantly more important purpose–national security. It operated under careful monitoring conditions. It was never used to keep track of domestic critics and in August 2008 was found to be legal by the Court which is charged with oversight of the program:http://www.uscourts.gov/newsroom/2009/FISCR_Opinion.pdf?WT.cg_n=FISCROpinion_WhatsNew_homepage
.
23. Moho. I didn’t ask you about what Bush did, the question was about the current flag@whitehouse.gov program. Do you support it?
I don’t think #23 was a direct reply to me, and I’ll take #23 as it is, a denunciation of how the Bush administration handled FISA.
Clarice, you’re misinformed. The datamining was completely unsupervised and most importantly, secret and illegal. We have no idea who was monitored or why before the program was revealed in 2005. In fact, even discounting the illegal and still undisclosed datamining and wiretapping conducted by the Bush administration, the extent of the uncontrolled datamining under the severely weakened FISA laws is still being revealed.
April 16, 2009
Officials Say U.S. Wiretaps Exceeded Law
By ERIC LICHTBLAU and JAMES RISEN
The National Security Agency intercepted private e-mail messages and phone calls of Americans in recent months on a scale that went beyond the broad legal limits established by Congress last year, government officials said in recent interviews…Several intelligence officials, as well as lawyers briefed about the matter, said the N.S.A. had been engaged in “overcollection” of domestic communications of Americans. They described the practice as significant and systemic, although one official said it was believed to have been unintentional…The legal and operational problems surrounding the N.S.A.’s surveillance activities have come under scrutiny from the Obama administration, Congressional intelligence committees and a secret national security court, said the intelligence officials, who spoke only on the condition of anonymity because N.S.A. activities are classified. Classified government briefings have been held in recent weeks in response to a brewing controversy that some officials worry could damage the credibility of legitimate intelligence-gathering efforts…
…It is not clear to what extent the agency may have actively listened in on conversations or read e-mail messages of Americans without proper court authority, rather than simply obtained access to them.
After a contentious three-year debate that was set off by the disclosure in 2005 of the program of wiretapping without warrants that President George W. Bush approved after the Sept. 11 attacks, Congress gave the N.S.A. broad new authority to collect, without court-approved warrants, vast streams of international phone and e-mail traffic as it passed through American telecommunications gateways. The targets of the eavesdropping had to be “reasonably believed” to be outside the United States. Under the new legislation, however, the N.S.A. still needed court approval to monitor the purely domestic communications of Americans who came under suspicion.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/16/us/16nsa.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=print
I assume that you wouldn’t lie to your readers about such a thing; the only other conclusion is that you’re less informed than an average New York Times reader. In which case, I question the value of your writing here.
Mr. Lucky. I’m less worried about the White House adding a new email address than I am the existence of a broadly based and apparently uncontrollable datamining regime started by the Bush administration and continuing under the Obama administration. See the article I excerpted–if anything should scare the pants off of you its that.
Moho will not answer the question about whether or not he supports Obama’s nark site for the simple reason that he DOES support it.
Moho is fond of making generalizations about other groups as in “your intellectual leader Glenn Beck” because it’s comforting to him/her/it to be able to box us in ideologically. We’re easier to dismiss as “wingnuts” if he/she/it can put an label on.
Problem that he/she/it is having is that there is no label/box/ideology that we’re all fitting into. Unfortunately for Moho and his liberal leadership (Pelosi, Hoyer, Obama, Rahm), we’re the voting electorate and try as they might to diminish us with labels, they are unable to shame us into submission, to shut us up with fear tactics, to put us in “our place”.
Funny how quickly liberals turned into power-mongers the minute they got elected isn’t it? The tragedy is the lengths they are going to to try and control the conversation.
The subtitle of most to the posts here should be paranoia runs rampant
The hypocrisy of the left never ceases to amaze me.
For years, the public has had to endure countless meetings disrupted by groups like Code Pink, MoveOn.org and others.
We even endured ACORN submitting false voter info. We have endured disruptions at military recruiting centers.
But for those folks, it’s an act of “patriotic dissent”. We have even seen acts that have disrupted the daily lives of citizens and businesses that were illegal.
Now, when the shoe is on the left foot, we see this pathetic response from the likes of Pelosi, and Obama and others in the Media. Labeling people as “Nazi, Swastika carrying, liars”, and “astro-turfs”. It is uttely childish in response, like a jealous child.
And for all the debate here regarding whether or not gathering this information is legal or illegal? It’s plain wrong either way. Given the state of the world in regards to global terrorism, nuclear proliferation, and the economy, I feel it is in the best interests of this Administration to care less about what some people are saying at some Town Hall Meetings, and get to work on the issues at hand, as well as CLARIFYING their message on health care in general. The current methods HAVE FAILED.
Collecting names in hopes of some grand conspiracy is stupid, especially when groups like MoveOn.Org have been doing the same thing, for years.
Athinkingperson, you didn’t choose a very apt screen name. I answered the question. I simply don’t care about this issue, except in the regard of how it demonstrates the complete lack of critical thinking skills displayed by people posting here. What really boggles the imagination is to watch you people manically flailing around in abject terror over an email address, when the NSA is looking through all of your communications with absolutely no controls. You people really have your heads where your behinds should be.
The silliest part of this debate is that Obama currently is in charge of the datamining and eavesdropping. He doesn’t need an email to surreptitiously spy on you. If he’s as evil and nefarious as you think he is, he’s already used the tools provided him by the previous administration to do much more than the ridiculous and baseless fears about the flag email! But you can’t criticize that program because it started under Bush. Many of us who would never call ourselves Republicans or Democrats have been worried about and fighting against actual violation of privacy of citizens for eight years and we continue to do so under the Obama administration. You people are simply part of the problem.
The author of this piece is either too young to remember or to stupid to comprehend history as it relates to this practice.
#33/34
Moho,
Comparing a program designed by the Bush Admin to protect the American People from future 9/11′s to some people “protesting” a controversial health care issue is FOLLY.
jmho.
Legality is NOT the issue here.
Collecting information on people to later use against them is.
Comparing a program designed by the Bush Admin to protect the American People from future 9/11’s to some people “protesting” a controversial health care issue is FOLLY.
Yes, that’s what Bush said he was doing it for; absent legal mechanisms and oversight, there’s nothing to verify that, however. Am I allowed to use the Nazi metaphor on you people, or will you go on and cry about how persecuted you are? You believe Bush’s every word like a good little Nazi, don’t you, neverquit? There’s no evidence about how Bush used the data. None at all, from 2002 when the program ostensibly began, to 2005 when it was revealed after the elections by the New York Times. Nothing. As I said, the government you helped create IS ALREADY MONITORING ALL OF YOUR ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS. And the writer of this fretful flight of fancy, defended the right of Bush–and by inference, any President–including Obama to do so for whatever reason he or she saw fit without need of oversight or legal controls. Now that the evil Obama is in control, rather than your preferred privacy-violator, who knows what he’ll get up to. Like I said, you created this world. But you don’t seem to be aware that you live in it.
Let’s look at who gets to opt out of the REFORMED government health care solution. Politicians, government and union workers (including unholywood). Anyone not in those groups is stuck. boy am i grateful to get that end of life counseling. Soylent Greeeeeeeen anyone.
Moho,
Which part of “collect, without court-approved warrants, vast streams of international phone and e-mail traffic as it passed through American telecommunications gateways. The targets of the eavesdropping had to be “reasonably believed” to be outside the United States.” are you deliberately obfuscating? Three guesses.
(Hint: it has to do with “international.”)
I would also remind you that for all the freakouts on the left, Bush’s program was *upheld* by the courts:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/washington/16fisa.html?hp
I would also invite you to attempt to stretch your mental capacity far enough to appreciate the difference between “keeping tabs on foreign terrorists” and “keeping tabs on political opponents” (see, “Nixon, Richard M.”)
” the government you helped create IS ALREADY MONITORING ALL OF YOUR ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS.”
Bullhockey. Not unless you’re talking to friends in Karachi or Kandahar.
Bohemond, I see the virus that causes selective parsing of data also affects you. From the NYT article you posted:
In a rare public ruling, a secret federal appeals court has said telecommunications companies must cooperate with the government to intercept international phone calls and e-mail of American citizens suspected of being spies or terrorists.But the ruling, handed down in August 2008 by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review and made public Thursday, did not directly address whether President Bush was within his constitutional powers in ordering domestic wiretapping without warrants, without first getting Congressional approval, after the terrorist attacks of 2001.
In fact, the extent of Bush’s wiretapping and datamining are still undisclosed publicly, the administration’s actions were not upheld. You seem fine with that, to the point where you’re willing to lie about it. In fact, there is nothing to verify that Bush did not keep tabs on political opponents–and, in fact, the article I posted reveals that datamining continues under Obama with very little restriction. In fact, FISA was passed so that a Nixon, Bush or Obama could not claim to be “keeping tabs on foreign terrorists” while they were actually “keeping tabs on political opponents”–the fact that Bush’s activities are still secret seems to bother no one here. Oh, they must have all been terrorists. What a credulous lot.
My whole point is here is how absurd your protests against a white house email address are, when Obama, thanks to Bush, who set the precedent, and congress, which gave in to political pressure by fools like you, can look at anything you print here or elsewhere. If you really cared about privacy issues, and even if you thought it was fine when Bush was doing it, you’d be up in arms about this. And you’re not, which indicates to me that this is pure time-wasting bs.
Comments boiled down. If Bush had have done this, it would have been just more evil constitution shredding (and fully expected). When Obama does it, Bush is still evil. That about it?
er, ah, not for nothing but if NSA is so illegal then why after eight full years, two different administrations, as early as late September ’01 and after awareness by Congress, equal or more awareness & review by the FISA courts, full public reporting, not one incident of legal abuse, and all this during a war as opposed to a shabby domestic policy sought by a nasty, tiny man in the WH, then why and how does this supposed horror live on?
I guess because it controllable.
Still, I do worry about violations of privacy. Which is one reason to oppose the misnamed health care legislation. Odd that some toss and turn in their cots at night over NSA, an issue as dead as meat in the freezer, but privacy violated on medical issues, no problem.
If their stated intent is to gather the lies and rumors contrary to as an unyet written piece of legislation, then the fishy data banks would contain the precedents and preludes to a new department, The Department of Misinformation.
The privacy act is also covered under the Civil Rights Amendment and Equal Protection Act. It is the chief executives job to enforce the laws. Even Nixon finally turned himself in, as a precedent.
Bohemond. So you’re saying that the evil Obama, who is a secret Muslim, fascist and Nazi, who wants to institute death panels to kill Sarah Palin’s baby, would not abuse the law that you authority-fellating nobs have already bequeathed to him? Hmmm…I can see you thought long and hard about this.
In any case, I presented cogent arguments here, fully documented and cited to a much higher degree than the writer of this article, about what you people should have been afraid of under Bush, and what you should continue to be afraid of under Obama. If you’re going to insist going after the email, thing, be my guest. I won’t argue the same points forever, everything you need to understand the real threat to your privacy is here.
This email obsession is simply making you look like a bunch of generally disinterested but easily excited and led idiots. I bet Feldman laughs all the way to the bank about how easy it is to con you poor schmucks.
42. Thomas_L……:
Comments boiled down. If Bush had have done this, it would have been just more evil constitution shredding (and fully expected). When Obama does it, Bush is still evil. That about it?
Yep, that just about covers Moho’s argument. Snitch on your neighbor good, reading terrorist’s email’s bad. Moho’s probable a member of ELF.
The Democrat Party is a criminal enterprise. And Moho has his head up his ass when it comes to the programs of the Bush administration.
Moho quoted the New York Times to bolster his point. What Moho doesn’t realize is that the New York Times lies on a continual basis. There, his argument is without merit.
Apparently Moho’s Bush Derangement Syndrome is incurable.
I’ll let the appeals court respond to your argument:
“This is little more than a lament about the risk that government officials will not operate in good faith. That sort of risk exists even when a warrant is required”
#37 Moho said : “Am I allowed to use the Nazi metaphor on you people, or will you go on and cry about how persecuted you are?”
You are no more allowed to use the Nazi metaphor on me personally, than Pelosi is.
I have done no crying anywhere. Your emotional response to my statement is telling of where your mind is.
All this “flag@obama.gov” business: Waste of time…..
#37 Moho said : “Am I allowed to use the Nazi metaphor on you people, or will you go on and cry about how persecuted you are?”
You are no more allowed to use the Nazi metaphor on me personally, than Pelosi is.
I have done no crying anywhere. Your emotional response to my statement is telling of where your mind is.
All this “flag@obama.gov” business: Waste of time…..
Someone better check and see if Clarece isnt being paid by Assholerod or Imnomanatall to write crap like “theres nothing to worry about” when a statist thug like Obama and his fellow communist travelers want to start acting like the old KGB THIRD DIRECTORATE and collecting information on there enemies and then using the force of government against them. Clarece, methinks youd best rephrase that or rethink it. Communists NEVER look at the free will of the people.
I find it amusing that the energetic troll believes a reader of the NY Times can be well-informed.
Kazooskibum is only able to deal with slogans. He wants to avoid facts because they seem to confuse him
#41 – Moho said : “My whole point is here is how absurd your protests against a white house email address are, when Obama, thanks to Bush, who set the precedent, and congress, which gave in to political pressure by fools like you, can look at anything you print here or elsewhere. If you really cared about privacy issues, and even if you thought it was fine when Bush was doing it, you’d be up in arms about this. And you’re not, which indicates to me that this is pure time-wasting bs.”
My protest against this is because it is a stupid, silly action on the part of the Obama Admin..
It is a pathetic attempt to establish some kind of factual evidence that there is an organized effort to distribute misinformation about the Health Care Reforms Obama wanted to SLAM down the American people’s throats.
SO WHAT IF THERE IS? This is nothing new, Leftist Groups have engaged in the behavior, and continue to all the time.
Secondly, you keep going on and on about the NSA wiretaps, it is unclear where you stand on the issue. Are you against the Obama Admin using wiretaps to protect Americans and Pro Obama Admin to collect information about Americans who may oppose health care reforms as currently POORLY presented?
It’s fun watching the Obamanation go into high dungeon when conservative opponents turn the tables on our neo-Fascist left. They can dish it out but they can’t take it.
All I can say is “Alinsky, you magnificent bastard, I read your book.
55. The Shadow said: “Kazooskibum is only able to deal with slogans. He wants to avoid facts because they seem to confuse him”….
Slogans like “Hope and Change”?
Moho….Just admit it, you’re a party hack. You pretend to have a strong opinion about the issues but when faced with a simple question from a poster, “Are you for Obama collecting info?”, you can’t seem to muster any of that liberal angst and just ANSWER.
You act like I care what your answer is. I don’t and I’m sure no one else here really does either because we can read through the wordy BS in your posts and glean the answer. Yes, you’re in favor of data collection by the Obamination Administration of it’s citizens. Well, those that dare offer an opposing viewpoint to his that is. Get another mug o’kook-aid and pat yourself on the back Mojo. You’ve spewed the DNC talking points to a T. That should get you some brownie points back at the moonbat cave right?
Liberals are all the same. Predictable with nary a thought of whats best for the greater good.
If the White House site had just asked for web pages (including blog posts) which people felt had misinformation, in the interest of getting correct information out, I might have believed that their goals were innocuous. They did not.
They explicitly reference “casual conversation” and ask for emails to be forwarded. They also label dissent “disinformation”, insinuating that anyone who disagrees with the Administration is not merely coming to a different conclusion based on the facts, but is actively spreading lies for their own nefarious purposes.
Well, I’ve been doing my part. I’ve reported multiple pages on the CNN and and MSNBC websites that quote President Obama, and have forwarded emails from my Senators and Representative (all Democrats repeating the standard talking points) to the White House as disinformation. I’m also going into the Spam folders on my email accounts and forwarding those to the White House… I’m sure President Obama will want to make sure the Canadian Pharmacy emails are Truthy.
You act like I care what your answer is. I don’t and I’m sure no one else here really does either because we can read through the wordy BS in your posts and glean the answer.
Correction you act like you care what my answer is. You are most assuredly not a thinking person. In any case, even if you disagree with my points there’s no argument to be made that I haven’t made the best and most cited and presented arguments. That includes the writer of this piece. All you have is your faith-based pant-crapping fear, and its making you look like all of the opposite of your posting name. I say keep digging, you’re doing fine in outing your movement as a compilation of brainless lemmings.
What happened to moho? A few questions for the erudite gentleman;
Were the Rosenbergs guilty or was it a Nixon frame job?
Is Alger Hiss innocent, and who will apologize to his family?
Who killed Judge Crater?
Is it true the Moon Landing was staged on a movie set and never happened?
Is the earth flat and we have been lied to for centuries?
And now for the big one, the real thing, WHAT DID BUSH KNOW AND WHEN DID HE KNOW IT? You get me, wasn’t Bush complicit in the murder of 3,000 Americans?
It is at a time like this we need moho’s “critical thinking” as he calls it.
The gift that just keeps on giving: Sarah Palin
Troubled Alaska health programs face federal restriction
IN-HOME CARE: Lawsuits, huge case backlog prompt moratorium on applications.
By LISA DEMER
ldemer@adn.com
Published: July 14th, 2009 10:11 PM
Last Modified: July 15th, 2009 05:14 PM
State programs intended to help disabled and elderly Alaskans with daily life — taking a bath, eating dinner, getting to the bathroom — are so poorly managed, the state cannot assure the health and well-being of the people they are supposed to serve, a new federal review found.
!!!!!The situation is so bad the federal government has forbidden the state to sign up new people until the state makes necessary improvements.!!!!
No other state in the nation is under such a moratorium, according to a spokeswoman for the federal Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services.
A particularly alarming finding concerns deaths of adults in the programs. In one 2 1/2 year stretch, 227 adults already getting services died while waiting for a nurse to reassess their needs. Another 27 died waiting for their initial assessment, to see if they qualified for help….
The common thread in the suits is that seniors and disabled Alaskans aren’t getting the services they are entitled to, under the law, Davis said. In one big win, the state Supreme Court ruled last year that the state had improperly cut off or reduced services to more than 1,000 needy people.
Apparently, Palin was projecting her own inept management on the rest of government associated services. Your hero at work! Its a good thing she quit.
Moho…I most assuredly am a “thinking person” contrary to your short-sighted, narcissistic view. I would love to disagree with your points, the problem is you haven’t made any. Just name-calling and trashing other’s posts, which I am realizing is the liberal MO. Interesting lack of viewpoint on your point now that I “think” about it.
You still haven’t answered the most basic of questions posed to you. Are you for Obama collecting info on average citizens or not? I think I’ll “think” about why you refuse to answer for a while. Actually the reason you refuse to answer is much more interesting that your yes or no.
Also, please post links to my “faith-based pant-crapping fear” that you referred to. I’ll “think” about the reasons you’re so angry and delusional in the interim….
I am surprised that the flag@whitehouse.gov site hasn’t shut down yet. I have sent a ton of emails to that site, as I am sure others have. My guess is that most of the messages hitting that site are not what was expected!
Moho…Please post references backing up your claim that Palin is our “hero”.
I’ll “think” about why you’re trying to change the subject from the topic at hand to Palin in the interim.
His snitch site isn’t illegal? Neither were Stalin’s. What is next, the mental hospitals for those crazy enough to oppose Obamacide? Then again he wants to slaughter innocent babies outside the womb, what will he do to you? There is only one term for it. EVIL!
“faith-based pant-crapping fear”
Yet another leftist with a grudge against his Creator. He’ll get a chance someday to explain his grievance against God face to face – I wish him luck.
He can explain maybe why he supported the destruction of His Creation His Sacrament of Marrige.
It is only illegal if a republican does it…ask Holder.
moho Sara Palin???
Back to more serious things.
Do you agree that the Titanic was sunk by an experimental Swiss submarine?
That George Bush was planning on converting the Moon to an inter-space detention center for patriotic liberals? Are there any other kind?
That federal deficits in the $200 Bil to $400 Bil range are destructive, but $1.8 Tril & more are the greatest thing to happen since Keith Olberman lost his tranquilizers.
That there really are tooth fairies.
That you’re not nuts, just eccentrically brilliant.
I’m done, tomorrow is another day. That is, if Obama makes it happen.
My suggestion for the matter is for everyone to email copies of the CBO analysis of the health care bill(s) currently meandering through Congress to fish@whitehouse.gov. In pdf format, with annotations. Powerpoint slides would be a plus.
With any luck we can melt their server.
Do the ODS sufferers really think that a Harvard lawyer didn’t do his homework first?
Sheesh.
After I send this, I am going to send several things to flag@whitehouse.gov. I sent both my senators letters about my opposition to the current bills under consideration and expressed my support for tort reform and for the co-ops. I also voiced my concern about the speed the president wanted to move and expressed my support for a slower, more deliberate process.
The letter I received from one said she was “sorry I did not support universal health care and believe that everyone should receive the care they deserve”. Her letter was misleading, deliberating so!, and did not match what I sent. I am going to report her right now. I never said I was opposed to universal access or in favor of denying people the care they deserve. I hope Rahm and Barry at least call her in and ask that she not add to the confusion.
As if that will happen…
“The author of this piece is either too young to remember or to stupid to comprehend history as it relates to this practice.”
The author of this piece is neither stupid or naive, and believe me, when it comes to history, she can recall the relevant details of whatever issue she’s trained her mind on with exquisite precision and apply it in an impressive manner. I’ve had the pleasure of having to watch her for the past five or so years and she is very good at sorting out the facts of a case and what the law says on a particular issue.
As for this issue, she’s simply calling this one the way the law was written and interpretted, which is what we all should be doing if we respect the law (and believe me, I have called this snitching in the past and would love to still call it snitching but it looks like I can’t anymore). We’re best dealing with these problems truthfully even if it is to our temporary disadvantage, for the moment we stop being honest about the issues we face, we’ll start acting like the left-wingers who’ll do just about anything to expand the power of the state.
Exactly, Orion. I think conservatives made a joke of that website. I would guess for every “legitimate” report (I use that term loosely), there were 20 people reporting themselves, sending the bill, YouTube videos of Barney Frank talking to the single payer guy, and pictures of Nancy Pelosi. I even heard people sent SpongeBob videos.
Could someone wade through that to compile a list? I guess. Am I worried about it? Not at all. I think by the time 2012 rolls around, we’ll all be snickering at the things Obama thought he could get away with.
And I think it’s cool that SpongeBob gets to stay in the White House records forever.
Odd how it was such a concern, that Medicaid is taking patients again,according to the Juneau Empire. And there was no named spokesman in that report. On the main point, it’s surprising
that a law designed to prevent White House abuse
of power, doesn’t cover the White House
Couple that pesky thing about making a list of the dissenters along with the advertisement for guards for internment camps on the US Army website and Monster.com and it gives you something to think about. The government denied the existence of internment camps. Why do they need guards for something they claim doesn’t exist?
Moho says ‘I don’t care about this issue.’ Yet, you’ve commented on this particular article to other posters, what, a dozen, 2 dozen times already? If you can’t make your point in a couple or few postings, you’re only trolling…
I’ll repeat what Clarice tried to clarify in rebutting the ‘Bush did the same thing’ moniker Moho again has regurgitated.
Obama’s ‘thought’ police keeping tabs on Americans who disagree with him on a domestic issue(s) is far more over reaching than the previous administration’s ‘vast streams of international phone and e-mail traffic as it passed through American telecommunications gateways.’
Just the other day Twitter succumbed to one computer from Georgia, RU and the facebook site nearly followed suit.
Moho, the world is a dangerous playground. Shaking hands with Chavez, Castro brothers and apologizing for ‘America’s misdeeds’ to our ALLIES is cowardly and weak. Our enemies don’t want to sit down and discuss the atrocities. Least of all with a man whose resume is thinner than 90% + of his colleagues.
The President of the United States
publicly solicits for informants
on US citizens exercising their
right of free speech, and you people
debate the legality of the action,
or the use to which the information
will be put ?
For crying out creamcheese.
I don’t feel threatened, or offended,
so much as confused: What the Bleep
was this supposed to accomplish ?
Moho, regarding your, ahem, knowledge on Alaska’s health care – perhaps you should live there before commenting.
Alaska is supposedly having a ‘health care crisis’ due in large part to the native villagers are wanting MORE and MORE Government subsidence.
It’s funny native columnists complain of the ‘only chainsaw in their village not working properly’ or ‘their grandmother having to walk 5 miles each way to get 2 pails of water’ – it’s a joke.
1st, did their ancestors use motorized chainsaws to accomplish their tasks? Secondly, the Egyptians and Harappans invented the aquaduct 2000 + years ago – apparently the natives didn’t take note.
The best diddy though is natives were complaining here in 2007 and 2008 for being unable to ‘pay’ for their gas to keep their homes warm. A family of 8 were complaining of such a struggle near here. 8! With the yearly stipend recently, that was ~28,000 ! 28k and these folks couldn’t keep their home heated? perhaps if their kids didn’t live off of junk food and the man of the house wasn’t a raving drunk this would be avoided. It may sound horrible but it’s true.
Most villages have a monthly or bi-monthly shipment of alcohol, cigarettes, et al to their locations. Constantly the cargo office which ships these items receive phone calls from a drunken Mayor or another politico and complain of not receiving their shipment. The cargo office may have shipped a vast amount of alcohol only days prior – but these folks attempt to get more on a regular basis. It’s very sad.
A culture that once prided itself on independence is now learning there’s easier money to be made in empathy..
So, come 2010, I will vote against ANYONE in our state that votes for it. Why would we want the Fed Gov to run any plan? Wow..my name could be on a list …eewwwww
If there would be internment camps, I nominate anyone that voted for Obama..
I know I’m harping on it, but in Unalaska, due to EEO standards, the clinic has the most inept employees. Honestly. Native and non-native alike. I needn’t go into horror stories for we’ve all got ‘em.
Though Anchorage is 800 miles east, people would rather fly the 3 hours to get ANY type of work performed by a competent Doc..
@77
“the advertisement for guards for internment camps on the US Army website and Monster.com”
Internment/Resettlement Specialist (31E)
http://www.goarmy.com/JobDetail.do?id=292
i.e., Prison Guard. Yeah, the Army has slots for that, and that means the Guard and Reserve do as well. I think it’s more plausible that 31 Echos are being called up for deployment more often than many other Guard MOSs, hurting reenlistment, and requiring more aggressive recruitment campaigns. Unless the total number of slots has greatly increased, suggesting an anticipated increase in need, I wouldn’t be worried about it.
Unalaska–Tellingly, I offered you an article which detailed the events in question, which are: Alaska is facing a health management crisis under the stewardship of Sarah Palin. Unlike the mythical death panels, due to her management, elders have actually died under the regime. The federal government has cut off Medicare and Medicaid services to the state of Alaska the only state that currently experiences that dubious honor until it can get its act together. And in the middle of this health care crisis Sarah Palin quit. One of the less intelligent people posting here now wants to claim that somehow Palin is not the darling of this site; I posted about ten articles from Pajamas Media singing her praises sans critique, but even the moderator here, apparently, wants to distance himself from that level of discourse now and didn’t publish it. Oh well, argue for her or against her, you all spent the last year arguing that she would have made a better President, and she can’t even manage the population of the least populous state in the union–a state with fewer people than the city of San Francisco.
I’m not going to get around to critiquing your insistence that its the Natives’ fault, Paul. I’ll let that stand as a perfect descriptor of how morally, ethically and logically bankrupt you people are.
And as with many things in this vein, there are no names associated with this government action,
much like the indictment rumor, the divorce rumor, etc. Sect 1233, pg 425-426 are real, Ezekiel Emmanuel is an advisor, so is John Holdren, who once recommended sterilization in the drinking water, and does’t see children as fully human until they are ‘socialized’ or
indoctrinated. Demer was one of those who was witness to Trig’s birth, yet six months later put an investigative unit to discover whether she had given birth to him,
Poor research on this subject matter. If this was true, why is the American Center for Liberty and Justice seriously considering a lawsuit? The ACLJ can be found at http://www.aclj.org.
Besides, if it is not illegal, it is stupid in the extreme. Senator Cornyn is considering legislation that makes this illegal. Any Senator or House member against such legislation would, ipso facto, be supportive of spying on American citizens. Any takers on how many Senators and House members would be willing to sign up for that label? Also, I have yet to see any Supreme Court cases that support your claim the Office of the President is not under the auspices of the privacy act.
Deep Brain Diarist,
You must be brain dead. If I send an email about a blog, then I am de facto providing the blog writers name. I could even put that name in the email itself if I so chose, or the White House could use whois and find out he information. It could even be done if the registrar securiy feature is enabled to hide that data.
As you can’t guarantee that is not happening as you don’t have access to the database being just a serf of Obama, and the law forbids the White House from destroying the database, which must be stored at the national archives, your statement that names are not being collected is, to put it plainly, stupid. But that’s okay, because nobody is scared of Obama and his minions anyway. Just remember that there will be another Republican president one day and if this act not illegal…well, I hope you are smart enought to guess the rest.
Just checked out the ACLJ website. I states the following:
“According to 5 U.S.C. § 552a, United States agencies, including the Executive Office of the President shall, ‘maintain no record describing how any individual exercises rights guaranteed by the First Amendment unless expressly authorized by statute or by the individual about whom the record is maintained or unless pertinent to and within the scope of an authorized law enforcement activity.’”
Attorney Eric Erickson noted, “This will be the first significant time the White House has ignored the Privacy Act and may open President Obama up to litigation.”
Perhaps ,gmerits,you could ask Mr. Erickson how he plans to deal with the uniform Court interpretation beginning with the 1980 Supreme Court ruling in Kissinger that Congress specifically exempted the offices of the president and vice president from the Privacy Act.
77. Mike:
Couple that pesky thing about making a list of the dissenters along with the advertisement for guards for internment camps on the US Army website and Monster.com and it gives you something to think about. The government denied the existence of internment camps. Why do they need guards for something they claim doesn’t exist?
Has it been a while since you were in the military? What they are advertising for is what up until a few months ago was a 95C. I first ran into 95C 28 years ago as a 95B- MP, 95C is basically a jailer and they have been around since The War of Independence 230 years ago. The US ARMY just changed alot of MOS’s. My son enlisted as a 91B, when I looked it up it was an Oncologist, he’s a grease monkey. Bit of a difference. Hate to burst your conspiracy bubble but I really don’t want you looking like a fool. Internment Specialist sounds a lot cooler than “Jailer”, gotta remember it’s all in the marketing.
Moho, or should I say ‘Soothsayer?’
Thank you for proving my comment regarding Americans stance today on empathy or self improvement. If Alaska were to air UNICEF-type commercials for the sick, be sure to send your 70 cents a day to ‘help’
I’m glad to be addressed by one of the ‘more’ intelligent posters on PJM..
Don’t you worry about Alaska. She has a gutless Senator, the former Mayor of Anchorage to assist in its demise. Oh, and there are plenty of lemmings with Hope n Change on their vehicles as well..
An Open Letter of Rebuttal to Our House Democrat Leadership
Dear Speaker Pelosi/Rep. Hoyer:
Your joint article in USA Today on August 10th, 2009 has come to my attention. Frankly, it is extremely disturbing, offensive, and reflective of a deep-seated ignorance of who and what Americans are and what rights and privileges were endowed upon us by the Founding Fathers.
Word is, you guys are much too busy to read so in the likely event neither of you perused the article, you can catch it here: http://bit.ly/LXwEh
Headlined, ” ‘Un-American’ Attacks Can’t Derail Health Care Debate,” in that article you see fit to describe sincere and honest dissent as “un-American.”
I regret that I have to inform you it is both very American and it is a sacred right guaranteed under the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America to publically address issues with which the people disagree.
It is unfortunate that the Constitution does not impose term limits on our representatives and, obviously, Congress has not seen fit to self-impose such limits.
One result has been career politicians, such as yourselves, who have been too comfortably, and too long, ensconced in their positions. Another result is that you have lost touch with the pulse of the people you represent. A third and perhaps most egregious result is that you have forgotten the fundamental reality that in our democratic republic you work for us, and not vice-versa.
The widespread protests against ostensible “health care reform,” popularly known as Obamacare, are not in any way illegal, immoral, or uncalled-for.
You hypocritically state in your article that, “We believe it is healthy for such a historic effort to be subject to so much scrutiny and debate” and that, “The dialogue between elected representatives and constituents is at the heart of our democracy and plays an integral role in assuring that the legislation we write reflects the genuine needs and concerns of the people we represent.”
Words are cheap, Madame Speaker and Democratic Majority Leader Hoyer. I include those pictures as a reminder of who you are since I’m certain you rarely have the nerve to look at yourselves in a mirror.
There is indeed “an ugly campaign” . . .
(Read the rest at http://genelalor.com)
BDS aside, let’s not be too quick to dismiss Moho’s original point. Is it possible that a program designed and used to prevent terrorist attacks could be subverted by an administration focused on supressing internal dissent? Of course it is. Not likely, perhaps, but certainly possible. That makes it even more important to push back hard against things like this “flag” email address. If Obama is forced to pay a political price for this email address and the accompanying Orwellian rhetoric, then he will be less likely in the future to consider using even shadier methods of collecting information on his political opponents.
So mojo, you are supporting government healthcare and then jumping up and stating that the federal government has frozen medicare to the people in the state of Alaska? This would be the exact reason why people would NOT want the federal government in charge of medicine! Thank you for for providing a fine example of why everyone is pissed at the thought of government control.
Also, can you please point out the website for a state run hospital in Alaska? Since you have stated that the reason for the freeze on benefits is because of mismanagement by Palin… I wasn’t aware there were any hospitals in Alaska operated by the state. Please direct my to one of these. I thought at least for the time being that hospitals were operated by doctors.
Also, I am still waiting for evidence for your claim that Bush violated the Geneva convention, and how those rules somehow applied to terrorist? You claim it does.
You seem to be like a drive by political troll, spouting off baseless and thoughtless opinions and then when people here call you on it you move on to the next attack. Is this how you define debate? You really should try taking a few college classes on debating to see how it works.
The question of whether you can read or not is largely academic at this point–its obvious that if you’re reading this stuff seriously, you already have cognitive issues. But just to clarify–the reason that the federal government is freezing the funds is because the Palin-run medicare system in Alaska is so badly managed that it is actually killing people. Idiot.
You seem to be like a drive by political troll, spouting off baseless and thoughtless opinions and then when people here call you on it you move on to the next attack.
No one’s called me on anything in a way that I feel worthy of response. You people simply don’t know anything. I have only two goals here: one is two insult the idiots here, the other is to make the .01% of you who have functioning cortex’s stop and think for a minute and actually read a newspaper or step out of your echo chamber. I’ll be damned if I’m going to see my country over-run by the 28% of American’s who have absolutely no critical thinking skills.
And I asked you…. show me a State run hospital where they are killing people. Pretty simple question. Are you not up to the challenge? And are you still reading the geneva convention? It’s not that long a read… are do you simply assume moveon is giving you the truth? I think THAT proves beyond a reasonable doubt who has a limit critical thinking skills… you seem to buy everything you hear from the left. Others on the forum seem to be able to weed through information from both the left and the right.
One more time, then I’ll be quiet.
moho, Deep Brain Diarrhea, vivo and possibly others are trolls most likely sent here to disrupt free, open discourse. You engage them at your own risk of having the discussion derailed. They will and have constructed straw men they then proceed to knock down while sidelining the real issues. They also may be paid shills. I won’t grace them with a link but Google “Amazon Mechanical Turk” and see where you end up (2nd return). BTW, they lately have been landing the Health Care posts where before it was Cap’N Tax.
clear ether
Is it illegal for the White House to pass the e-mails to an outside group such as the DMC or SEIU?
Yea; Right! You can’t B.S. me, Ms. Feldman.
I’ve worked for the Federal Government most of my life and can supply evidence that once you are successful at filing a legitimate complaint about their actions and/or policies, they send the “suits” after you. And as they are doing to Sarah Palin with the media, they never leave you alone and try to destroy your life, credibility, and try to prevent you from receiving your benefits. I’m lucky to have what I do have left, because I refused to lay down for these soldiers of socialism.
Parts of our government are truly run as if they took a script from some conspiracy movie.
The fantasy land you live in, does give you some material for your articles.
“Deep Brain Diarrhea, vivo and possibly others are trolls most likely sent here to disrupt free, open discourse. ”
I’m sure everyone here knows that. Some just take a perverse pleasure in watching the terminally stupid try and make themselves look even more stupid.
Note the fine job paul_unalaska did in fishing in the stupid dolt moho. Little pieces of shredded moho-troll all over the floor, yet the moron moho can’t help itself, it feels compelled to spend lots of time writing another mouth-foaming rant to prove it is even more stupid than we thought. The subject article describes why Comrade Obumle’s rat-em-out mailbox isn’t really a threat, and the trolls manage to miss the point well enough to spend half a day typing vacuous garbage in defense of . . . Obumble’s rat-em-out mailbox.
Really, it’s too easy. Watch . . .
Yo moho, you illiterate brain-damaged commie parasite failure-at everything! You are hereby directed to generate another bucket of mouth-foam, spend another hour of your pitiful empty existence, and write us yet another content-free potty-mouth rant in defense of your Massa Obumble and his Socialized Medicine fantasy. Be sure to include your most infantile, amateurish insults directed at folks who don’t care if you drop dead in the next ten minutes, much less care what you think (and don’t even believe you capable of thinking). Minimum five paragraphs dipstick! Here, fishy, fishy . . .
BTW – Nice article, Ms Feldman. It’s always good to keep some perspective.
Tick, tick, tick . . . Ladies and Gentlemen, place your bets.
Will dim-bulb moho respond to all the personal insults delivered on his unworthy carcass, thereby proving his craven compulsion to follow orders from absolutely anyone?
Or
Will he forego lame attempts at the “last word” and lose the chop-fight by default, tacitly admitting the truth of his illiterate brain-damaged commie parasite failure-at everything-ness?
Anybody care to give odds?
Meanwhile, I’m confident that Obama’s communications staffer really didn’t intend to stir up such a storm. Neither does the administration really intend to assemble an “enemies list” by such a clumsy artifice as the flag mailbox. They believe in themselves. I believe they are truly concerned that they are losing the debate in the public forum, and are desparately trying to answer the harsh criticism coming from so many quarters. Hanlon’s Razor applies here: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” Or in this case, simple ineptitude.
I don’t see the mailbox as a threat, just a rather predictable tone deafness on the part of idealogues surprised by their inability to convince the American electorate of the wisdom of socializing a large and important sector of the economy.
Let’s keep hammering at them though. It’s fun to watch them flail.
98. Robohobo, 101. ITF:
Should I say something to these guys(?) ?
Naaah . . . these guys probably couldn’t understand how a guy like me can make a million bucks writing one-liners on this blog . . .
moho – one of your 2 goals on PJM is to insult people? You must be one of the more lonely, unfulfilled people I’ve had the displeasure of reading.
As for your rant of ‘Palin-run medicare system’, I looked into your banter and see that it stems from a 2 1/2 year period (Oct ’06 – Mar ’09).
What the article touches on is ‘..individuals probably died in far more restrictive environments (i.e., hospitals and nursing homes) than they would have desired, because of the lack of adequate support in their homes.’
It then delves into Alaska being a ‘unique’ and ‘diverse’ area.. you get the picture where this story’s headed.
http://www.newsminer.com/news/2009/jul/25/freeze-new-patients-unwise/?opinion
Lack of adequate support – Such as living in the bush, uneducated family and neighbors or a community that continues to live ostracized from society. To the rescue is an AA native of the village who happens to be a lawyer and plays up the empathy card not for money.. nooo. It’s because ‘they care.’
Where I live there’s a fairly large Russian population. Oddly, there is NO Russian Council, Federal dollars, monies or other appeasement-like tactics the Russian population entertains or pushes. Hmph.. that’s ‘weird’.
Though you saw ‘Lack adequate support’ and surmised, ‘Palin’!
I’m not going to bat for the woman, but your reality is so skewed and hellbent, to *hell with fact or fiction, is truly frightening!
Newsflash: No Governor controls the hospital. The movers and shakers in that regard is Community Health Systems, Triad Hospitals Inc, Tenet Healthcare Corporation and myriad of others.
#97 Brian – Hope this puts your query to Moho to rest.
Thanks Paul!