Democracy or Jew-Hatred? More Evidence of Anti-Semitism at the Egypt Protests
Whereas his female companion did nothing but spew hatred, a male protestor did at least bring up the aspirations of Egyptians to be free. This is what he said about them: “The United States stand beside Hosni Mubarak one hundred percent, because they know if Hosni Mubarak fell, the whole people in Egypt they gonna be free. And if the people free in Egypt, … they gonna go free the Palestinians! They gonna destroy Israel! The country that controls the United States is Israel!” (The interview can be found here. For the context of the interview, see here.)
Note that the evidence that I have assembled above and in my previous article is based solely upon searches of English- and German-language sources. It presumably represents just a fraction of the evidence that could be found in Arabic sources. To test this hypothesis, I did a flickr search on the name Mubarak in Arabic (مبارك). This led me to the following photos from the Egypt protests.
Ironically, the second-to-last photo above appears to have been taken in front of an office of the European Union. Here is a close-up detail.
It seems that the Western news organizations present in Egypt have been kindly “sparing” their audiences the most blatantly offensive images. The local photographers obviously have no such inhibitions.
The flickr streams make clear that most of the posters displayed at the demonstrations did not in fact contain any pictures or symbols at all. They consist of pure Arabic text. It would undoubtedly by highly revealing to have those posters translated. Translations of the Arabic text present on the above posters would be greatly appreciated.
I’m shocked, shocked to see this material! Round up the usual suspects.
About that swastika on the tie… Alleged negative views of nazism and Hitler by mohammedans are for WESTERN AUDIENCES ONLY. Make no mistake, mohammedans love and revere Hitler and nazis.
Egyptian rulers never reconginzed Israel from their hearts. Look at the picture where Anwar Sadat wearing Swastika tie when he visited Israel. http://www.jtf.org/israel/israel.arab.moderates.part.two.htm
In 1972, two years after becoming Egypt’s dictator, Sadat gave a speech celebrating Mohammed’s birthday. In the speech, Sadat explained the Islamic attitude toward Jews: “The most splendid thing the prophet Mohammed did was to drive them [the Jews] out of the whole Arabian peninsula…. They are a nation of liars and traitors, contrivers of plots, a people born for the deeds of treachery…. I promise you … we shall send them back to their former status … as the Koran said of them ‘condemned to humiliation and misery.’”
Nazi warcriminals found Egypt a very welcoming place after the war:
http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/where.html
To wit, the exact nexus between Nazism and Islamism is demonstrably revealed in German historian,Matthias Kuntzel’s book,’Jihad & Jew Hatred:Islamism, Nazism & the Roots of 9/11′.
One cannot read the above book and NOT conclude that Nazism & Islamism are two signs of the same Jew hatred.In fact, the Mufti of Jerusalem(the godfather of modern terror’s uncle- Egyptian born(not ‘Palestinian’)Arafat-was ensconced within Hitler’s SS troops, as Muslim SS counterparts to the Final Solution.
Anyone who does NOT get the message from the Egyptian masses, that they too ‘heart’ the Final Solution are either willfully blind or outright anti-semites.
Either way Israel’s military and political leaders are taking note.Rest assured.
Another person who has researched the connection between the antisemitism and the Nazis/Hitler is Jeffrey Herf. In his book “Nazi Propaganda For The Arab World” he documents the propaganda used by the Nazis and its effects in the middle east.
indeed – many Islamic nations have modeled their entire political and military system on that of the Nazis
John, according to Sandmonkey, in my interview with him, the anti-Semitism card is being played by BOTH sides. The demonstrators accuse the Mubarak people of being manipulated by Jews and vice versa. Pathological, pathetic and scary all at once.
I had my photos of posters consisting of pure text translated that were taken during 4 days Jan.29-Feb.1 in Tahrir Square and they were all variations of “Mubarak get out”.
I fail to see how the images shown in the article translate to anti-Semitism. There is absolutely no doubt that many protesters in the square would love for Israel to disappear. Many Egyptians dislike the peace with Israel and have for decades. Sadat was assassinated because of it.
Is that Jew-hatred? No doubt the demographic and finally military subversion of the Mandate of Palestine by Jews is exactly what radical Islam itself bewilderingly advocates in the West but by demographics alone since Islam has no military option in this regard. Islam doesn’t even have the provenance of saying they had a historical presence in the West.
This is monstrous hypocrisy I chalk up to Islam’s utter self-absorbtion with itself to the exclusion of any consideration of fair play. I’m not sure it is still the same as ethnic hatred. Had Irish people done the same thing in “Palestine” Islam would still feel stung because of its overweening arrogance and feeling it owns any ground forever that it has ever exerted religious hegemony over.
There were no terrorists during the 400 year Ottoman occupation of Palestine but possibly this is because of the big stick being brought out should any such rebellion had occurred. Nonetheless one feels that the Ottoman’s being muslims assuaged Palestinian pride and made the yoke somehow less oppressive.
Egyptians have a thing about Israel no doubt by having their pride stung at being whipped by Israel to the point of having to publish revisionist versions of the 1973 War such as appeared in a multi-part series published in the English speaking Egyptian Gazette written by Dr. Hassan M. Wageih shortly before the protests of Jan.25, 2011 began. This is also reflected in false history text books used in Egypt following the 1967 War concerning American and British help to Israel during that war.
Islam does not get along well with others and this is a historical fact. Subvert or submit to high taxation was how Islam introduced itself to Egypt originally as anybody not a muslim was distinctly made into a second class citizen. The Egyptian people’s dislike of Israel may not be so much an expression of hatred for Jews as a love of the sound of their own Islamic voices against all comers and the failure of Islam to fend off those comers since it was awakened from a centuries long sleepy nappy time when Europe took over the vacuum left with retreating Ottoman armies.
The British Mandate of Palestine followed and the European Holocaust during World War II suddenly made Zionism look good to the Jews in a very real way. The Jewish immigrants from Europe made the British Mandate look like a power vacuum by simple resolve and organization. Islam has not been able to help the Palestinian Arabs and no one feels this failure more than the Egyptians who detest any non-muslim occupation of an eternal wafq regardless of race, religion or creed. Egypt is the center of Sunni learning and may feel a particular responsibility in this regard.
Muslim Egypt after its forced conversion to Islam has often been subsequently dominated at one time or another by ethnic outsiders such as Kurds, Kipchak Turks or Circassians but who were always muslim and this seems to have leavened the sting of conquest.
Jew-hatred may in fact simply be non-muslim hatred. Is this pedantry? If it’s an accurate (though nominal distinction in real cause and effect terms) I’m not sure that it is.
Suggest you read Andrew Bostom’s exhaustive “From Sacred Texts to Solemn History: The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism”. You may revise your conclusions.
http://www.andrewbostom.org/
I cannot make a comment about a book I have not read. However I can say what is obvious in history.
Israel itself exists as a direct result of over a thousand years of on again off again European anti-Semitism culminating in the Holocaust, the single greatest crime against humanity in terms of time and space ever committed in this world.
There would have been no European Jewry to return to Palestine in the first place had they not been dispersed by the Romans.
Even the men of the First Crusade paused to kill Jews along the Rhine on their way to Jerusalem and Jews were expelled from Spain entirely in 1492 and it should be noted that there were Jewish viziers in muslim Spain and there are numerous examples of this throughout the history of Islam. Jews in England weren’t even allowed to exist for a few hundred years starting in 1290.
Jews also lived as second class citizens in Islamic polities yet there is no historical analogue within those societies to the Holocaust. In this sense it must be said that muslims themselves have been second class citizens compared to Europe when it comes to the art of anti-Semitsm. Jewish enclaves in North Africa were fine compared to the events from 1948 to 1967 which saw Islam turn against those enclaves.
During those few nights in Cairo recently where the police had disappeared from the streets and neighborhood watch groups protected their homes and businesses and vigilantes set up check points on every street corner far into the night, the old Jewish Temple on Adly St. was protected by muslims and Christians who I sat and talked and drank with.
There was not a single incident, not even graffiti, during this time and the so-called “terrorist” attack against the temple a year ago consisted of a man setting ablaze a suitcase and throwing it down onto the street from the balcony of a hotel across the street. I know because I was there. Having said this, it is easy to notice copies of “Mein Kampf” laying on outdoor book stalls here and there around Cairo.
I cannot read the minds of people who paint a Star of David across Mubarak’s face but one can wonder why such anti-Semitism doesn’t take a rather more direct form than innuendo or why incidents against Jews in the United States outnumber those against muslims. To me there is a direct comparison with muslims themselves who say Israel and the U.S. seek to overthrow the whole of the middle east yet never explain why such evil entities don’t do so in a more direct manner or how several million Jews could accomplish such a feat.
Egyptians don’t like Israel and many don’t like anyone who treats with or supports Israel and this includes Mubarak and the U.S. gov’t. I know the idea of hating Israel as opposed to outright anti-Semitism by Egyptians can be a fine to non-existing line at times but the argument that Egyptians simply don’t like Jews is not an entirely persuasive one for me. Keep in mind that Egyptians I’ve talked to dislike Saudi Arabia and Wahabiism.
There are many shadings within Islam: some hate outsiders and some respect them and there is a lot in between. The West’s own “Gentlemen’s Agreement” with Jews proves nothing exists in a vacuum and these signs should be seen in context.
I have gone through my proofs all taken with a wide angle lens and there is not a single Star of David to be seen in the background during the entire 4 days prior to the horse/camel attack last Wednesday though I do recall seeing a few the last couple of days and chants where one could hear the words Israel and America were not rare; in any event those Star of David’s are not hard to find now though still in the distinct minority. There are a minority of signs in English though this comes to many in the aggregate and I don’t recall seeing the word Jew once.
The only real case I am trying to make is based on what I photographed, saw and heard and it is by no means conclusive but presented here for context.
I made another comment at PJM today wherein I described my visit to Tahrir Square today for several hours as far as Egyptians telling me their solution to the Palestinian question is not a 2 state solution but one where Israel doesn’t exist at all. I was kinda on the side of the protesters until I heard such nonsense.
Then go listen to my interview with Sandmonkey, if you haven’t. What he said was that BOTH sides were actively blaming the Jews. He used the word Jews, not Israelis.
I had already listened to this interview when it came out.
In the sense of which people here who use English speak, Jews often mean Israel so I’m not sure of the significance of the semantics of it.
There was however that moment on Egyptian TV already referred to where a woman claimed to have been paid by Jews/Americans in the USA (Israeli funds?) to subvert the Egyptian government.
At roughly the same time, maybe slightly before, as the camel/horseback attack in Tahrir Square there had already been rumors in the media that outside agents from Hamas and Israel were stirring up trouble with the protesters.
I’m not sure what it is exactly the protesters are blaming Jews or Israel for. My sense of what was going on at the time on the streets and in Tahrir Square the 5 days starting on Jan.28 was that this was about oppression and freedom and not about Mubarak cozying up to Israel.
If you go to the Facebook page “We Are All Khaled Said” in which was originally encapsulated the rage against the gov’t, there is nothing there about Jews or Israel. The grievances around which this protest seems to have been formed consist of the following from what I have listened to here:
• Egyptians are really angry at the idea that Mubarak’s son would follow him which is why you see this referred to in regard to the protests.
• The murder of Khaled Said in Alexandria infuriated young people as symbolic of injustice in Egypt.
• Egyptians can now more easily see freedom in other countries thanks to the internet and cable. They think of themselves as equals to these other countries and so don’t understand almost 30 years of emergency laws and why they need a dictatorship. Where’s the emergency? Islamic fundamentalists? It could very well be. Some have credited Mubarak’s security apparatus with taking down fundamentalists in Egypt.
Egyptians don’t like Israel and that’s a fact. It’s not why they’re in the streets in my opinion or even significant. How did the protesters know I wasn’t a Jew when I was photographing them? Not one person ever asked me if I was a Jew. Having said that, I would not have accepted a dare to wear a Star of David t-shirt when photographing the riots thank you very much.
There are many places in Europe you can’t do that. Even during a protest in front of the Israeli embassy in Los Angeles over the Gaza Flotilla attack, a lone Jewish kid waving an Israeli flag had to be protected by police in AMERICA from Palestinian protesters who can only be described as ignorant. It’s on youtube.
It’s why I’m against muslim immgration into the U.S. To use an academic term there are simply too many knuckleheads to make the peaceful ones worth mentioning; I don’t think muslims make for good Americans in general because their religion/government locks them into the past and sets them against all others – there is no greater good or love in Islam that I can see if by love you mean love of all people.
I don’t need to see this nonsense like the Los Angeles protest played out in America and since Jews in America are peaceful and productive, keep out people who want to think of nothing but Islam and Palestine and are constantly bitching about stuff. We’ve had our civil war and race riots and the rest – enough already. If Islam is so frickin’ great let them make their own version of “Leave It To Beaver” to aspire to and the great civilization, tradition and culture implicit in the show, fantasy or no.
Take your pick, the greater good or the politicalization of every group that feels disenfranchised from Beaver’s neighborhood and life style. To me diversity and multiculturalism from the Third World equals fragmentation and not a wonderful melting pot which never really existed in America in the true sense of the term.
I like Adel Imam but I’ll take Groucho Marx any day. To me Groucho (his fictional character of course) was the quintessential American – eccentric, rebellious, thoughtful, sarcastic, self-deprecating, smart, humorous and only mean when stung.
As you say, Mr. May, your distinction between anti-Semitism and anti-Israel sentiment may be pedantry. And that the difference between the two may be near-zero. What you have said for certain and with great clarity is that a Jew with any independence is a threat to Egyptians, so that only an essentially empty synagogue in Cairo receives protection. If the Jews were strong enough to protect their property and dignity, they would receive only animus from the ‘proud’ Egyptians – quite in line with Islam’s historical record on the Jews.
Only the excision of Islam from the Muslims can save them from themselves.
I wish that you could get to know some Egyptian Jews who were exiled from their homes and property. The process was no different from that of European practitioners of anti-Semitism. Within minutes of have been run out of their homes, those homes were occupied by neighbors who finished the still-warm meals left on the tables.
Do not think in western terms. Think as a believer. Dissect this one : “al wala’ w’al bara”. 1400 years and no reformation in Islam. If one is a proper adherent to Islam, one MUST go after the unbelievers and defeat the unbeliever by any means. The ummah must be spread – the caliphate established.
Therein lies the basic conflict – civilizational clash for 1400 years and not at an end. It now flares again. I for one choose western values and a western concept of freedom – seems to come from the gut, or the cries of a 3 year old saying “that’s not fair!!”
The Koran is not fair. The American Constitution comes pretty darn close to be extremely fair, if exercised the right way – the wetsern way.
So open your eyes, stop being “pc”, call a spade a spade.
Get over your insipidly narrow “But, is it good for the Jews?” obsession. The Egyptians are celebrating their freedom. So what if a few signs portray the Star of David in an unflattering light? It’s Jews, Jews, Jews, all the time with you people. No wonder you haven’t worked since Gilligan’s Island.
Abe, This is self-hatred. But I’m sure you’ve heard that.
Zionists like me have worked since G’s Island — and I have a large, successful business.
I do travel internationally a great deal. I suspect you never leave your liberal enclave. I speak to Arabs frequently just to “smoke ‘em out,” and, yes, Jew hatred is rampant. Mixed up with Israel hatred but so what? What’s the difference, really?
You are in denial, sir.
I am sure you have an equally lame explanation or dismissive attitude for Arab hatred of the U.S. as well.
Many protesters would like for the worlds largest Jewish population to disappear.
Yet that is no real problem for James May. Just a glitch in the otherwise exciting adventure.
The Jews would like not to be disappeared. So think a little harder.
Spindok
Your moniker is entirely accurate since your words are not.
“Many protesters would like for the worlds largest Jewish population to disappear.”
Erm, I’m not completely sure, but I believe the world’s largest jewish population resides in the north-east of the united states.
wrong check your facts
Yep, you’re right. I need to take the east and west coasts to find more jews than there are in israel.
I guess it’s up to the individual whether that’s one population or not. I don’t want to get wrapped up in US east/west cultural differences.
“There were no terrorists during the 400 year Ottoman occupation of Palestine”
There was plenty of mistreatment of Jews–official and unofficial.
And the Muslims did not need a terrorist underground because being anti-Jewish was entirely acceptable.
In that particular comment I was referring to an Arab rebellion against the Ottomans and not anything about the situation for Jews in that time period.
Since some 60,000 Jews emigrated into Palestine under Ottoman control from 1881 to 1914 I’m not sure how bad they were treated, at least at that time.
I fail to see
only words you need read in JM’s posts
he fails to see
what he refuses to see
Yes, my feelings exactly. I guess.
You sound like one of the thousands, if not millions of Jews who refused to believe that Hitler and the Nazis could really be as barbaric as they said.
The Egyptian protesters walk around with signs depicting Mubarek with the Star of David painted around him. Yet, you say they are not really anti-Semitic?
No, I’m saying that it is curious that if they are simply expression of Jew-hatred, then why aren’t they more obvious about it?
They seem more like political signs suggesting that Mubarak has been too nice to Israel. If we here argue that making political cartoons about President Obama does not reflect a default position of racism then why turn it about at out convenience?
For sure the Egyptian protesters do not like Israel. For the first time yesterday I was asked by their security if I’d ever been there. Having said that, they laugh at the idea the Israel is funding the protesters or anyone else for that matter.
We have already discussed that anti-Zionism and anti-semitism is at times a fine to non-existing line to all intents and purposes in regard to Israel. I myself see this as not about Jews per se but about a non-muslim violation of an eternal wafq. Once a muslim touches a ground it is theirs forever and that’s it. The Egyptians are also stung by their failures against Israel militarily; that’s why they blame ’73 on America without mentioning their own Soviet proxies that were in the mix.
Anti-Semitism? I can’t read their minds. My experiences suggest that hatred is expressed more directly and a sign with a star over a face ain’t exactly a call for world Jewry to be dumped in a pit.
ADL: “Anti-Semitism remains deeply ingrained in Egyptian society, finding expression in the mass media, popular literature and public statements while remaining virtually unchallenged by government leaders.”
http://www.adl.org/NR/exeres/3B9634A3-B3F8-4B52-8359-68E7EE53299E,0B1623CA-D5A4-465D-A369-DF6E8679CD9E,frameless.htm
Islam itself is highly anti-semitic AND anti-christian. 20% of Egypts population consists of Coptic christians, who are coming under more amd more religious attacks in recent weeks. Not only anti-semitism, but Ive noticed a few Hammer/sickle flags among the protestors(where have we seen that before?). I thought the moslems didnt like communists. Seems to me they are working in concert here.
I believe it is currently 10%
Unfortunately, there obviously remain far too many Arabs who will not be happy until the last Jew is buried in the Middle East so even if the Egyptian people have suddenly had some sudden epiphany about democracy (exactly where has Soros been investing the last few months?), the inherent anti-Semitism in the Middle East will inevitably raise its ugly little head as part of any protest.
The real danger now lies in our own Jimmy Carter, Jr. faced with the choice between the lesser of two evils: an Israel-supporting Mubarek dictatorship or the sooner-than-later control by the Muslim Brotherhood.
What’s so surprising? These are muslims.
I don’t get the feigned shock. Surely it has to be feigned if you know the slightest thing about Islam’s “Holy Book,” which is crammed with references to the Jew as pig, dog and all round fiend.
This is old news. Egypt has nurtured a sense of xenophobia that beggars the imagination. They’re not alone in this. Dictatorships have always needed to create an Us versus Them attitude so that people do not notice their incompetence. Top ten favorite targets include: Jews, Crusading Christians, the CIA, the US, their government, Russians, Chinese, French, Dick Cheney, Ariel Sharon’s ghost, and so on and so forth.
Yawn.
First it will be Jews, then Christians, gays, women, etc, etc ,etc
Islam knows no tolerance for those outside of Islam. The west has PC’d itself out of existence. When they finally realize that there is no middle ground with these people, it will be too late…for all of us…
You’re obsessed.
The evidence of these signs shows that the overwhelming beef that those protesters have is with mubarak. He IS seen as too close to israel, particularly because he helps to implement the gaza blockade, and a lot of egyptians don’t like that. Agree or disagree with them, but that is what they think … and it is largely their relatives who live in gaza.
That cartoon of the “zionist pig” is actually an old cartoon of lieberman. It’s something somebody found on the web:
http://www.israellycool.com/2010/09/19/the-day-in-israel-sun-sept-19th-2010/
This really is a clear-cut case of people having a major problem with their leaders’ cooperation with a policy of a neighboring country. You might disagree with their position, but it’s also a stretch to try to paint it as “anti-semitism”. It wouldn’t matter if israel was a lutheran, shiite or kalathumpian nation, but as long as that blockade stays in place some egyptians will have a beef with israel. It has nothing to do with the history, language, religion or ethnicity of jews. It’s politics.
The way I see it, those placards are trying to paint mubarak as too close to israel. The pictures are of mubarak (except the lieberman one, but I’d question whether the poster actually knew that). Sure, you’ll find stupid comments on blog sites – you should read some of the comments on THIS site. But they don’t necessarily represent mainstream views, which in egypt right now seem to be entirely directed against their outgoing leader. The focus of the protests isn’t israel.
I still think that attempting to broaden the definition of anti-semitism to include anything that can be construed as critical of israel at all is a bad idea. Eventually it’ll leave you with a term that’s insufficient to describe people like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTeE4rbiDm4
Incidentally, the kid in that picture had some real guts. In part II of that video he gets punched. The guy behind the camera is behind bars now, I believe.
Matthew, you are bending over way too hard to “understand” these people.
Antisemitism? Perhaps not. But it is hatred. Raw. Xenophobic. Hatred.
When you portray your leader as something else you hate, and that something happens to have a star of David as it’s symbol, well, that either says they hate Israel very badly, or that they hate this leader very badly, or both.
Would a Jew be able to walk freely among a crowd like this without fear?
Pardon me, I feel dirty. I need to wash my brain out with soap for even attempting to understand what you wrote.
“Matthew, you are bending over way too hard to “understand” these people.”
Not really. I’m just taking issue with a claim that opposition to the gaza policy is indistinguishable from anti-semitism. Whether or not egyptians are, on the whole, anti-semites isn’t my point. I’m talking about the signs that the author is claiming to show they are – I don’t think they do.
“Antisemitism? Perhaps not. But it is hatred. Raw. Xenophobic. Hatred.”
How about just anger? Why politicise everything to fit an agenda? Egyptians don’t like the gaza blockage – that’s not hard to understand. Xenophobia need not have anything to do with it.
“When you portray your leader as something else you hate, and that something happens to have a star of David as it’s symbol, well, that either says they hate Israel very badly, or that they hate this leader very badly, or both.”
You know that reasoning is circular, right? Are they showing that they hate israel by associating it with mubarak, or are they showing that they hate mubarak by associating him with israel? See “begging the question”
“Would a Jew be able to walk freely among a crowd like this without fear?”
I have absolutely no idea. I expect that anybody who tried to pick an argument would probably cop an ear-full. An israeli who stormed out and defended the gaza blockade might find the situation uncomfortable. But I personally don’t know how violent these people are – although I’m starting to get the impression that some journalists are talking it up a bit.
“Pardon me, I feel dirty. I need to wash my brain out with soap for even attempting to understand what you wrote.”
If considering reality makes you feel dirty, that’s hardly my problem. I think the author is trying to expand the definition of anti-semitism to include anything that can be construed as criticsm of israel or its policies. That’s annoying.
Yes, it should be noted that one recent poster in the other article at PJM about the signs at Tahrir Square said that in his experience Egyptians were a people who were “cowardly and grovelling” as well as “unctuous and manipulative”.
He continued that my own comments about Tahrir Square and Egypt were “not right enough about things that matter”. I am happy to report that this is true if what matters are blithely disgusting and racist portraits of Egyptians.
To add delusion to injury the next commenter, a Jew, referred to that post as having “laser like clarity”. I am assuming this is the flip side of Hitler’s own clarity when it comes to problem solving.
That is far worse than anything I have seen in Tahrir Square and not in any way political as can at least be argued for with the Mubarak/Star of David signs. Those comments are an exact analogue to actual anti-Semitism. Pot calling the kettle black ain’t exactly Sherlock Holmes friends.
Mr. May, your stripes are showing. Anti-Semitism is a tool. The flesh and blood Jew is unimportant. The goal is to get rid of Mubarak, so any tool will do and anti-Semitism works well. What it shows, at heart, is that humans can make connections that are illogical that are still given credence. The reason you are wrong is that Jewa and Israel are projections in the minds of the mob. They are primitive and lead us all to the edge of the cliff. I still have hanging on my refrigerator a picture of the Jewish vulture captured in Saudi Arabia who was caught spying for the Mossad. How about the Jewish shark attacks in Sharm?
What stripes and wrong about what? I’m just telling you what I see; if that’s wrong then tell me how you can see so much more clearly from where, Cleveland, Toronto?
I have said this before and I will say it again: sheer intellectualism, a keyboard and moral posturing do not trump experience.
This is a politically correct liberal hallmark wherein anything not liked or believed in is simply ignored in favor of rank speculation presented as reality.
If my stripes consist of people complaining about anti-Semitism who blithely depict Egyptians with racist names then color me a zebra.
“He IS seen as too close to israel, particularly because he helps to implement the gaza blockade, and a lot of egyptians don’t like that.”
Weirdly, said alleged concern for Palestinians never stretches towards those Palestinians living in Egypt (e.g. [1]). Somehow it looks more of an instrument to bash Israel.
“That cartoon of the “zionist pig” is actually an old cartoon of lieberman.”
So? If someone didn’t like a policy of Obama, and made a cartoon of him with thick lips munching a watermelon, that would be fine by you? Or maybe it would reveal something deeper?
“I still think that attempting to broaden the definition of anti-semitism to include anything that can be construed as critical of israel at all is a bad idea.”
I don’t see any such attempt, nor anyone opposing any criticism of Israel. I do see lots of people ignoring antisemitism using the ridiculous claim that any condemnation would somehow prevent any criticism of israel.
[1]
fmreview.org/FMRpdfs/FMR20/FMR2013.pdf
“…It wouldn’t matter if israel was a lutheran, shiite or kalathumpian nation,…”
It all the fault of those damned Kalathumpians. Sons of Kangaroos! Down with Kalathumpia!!
i am protesting against obama and show a photo of obama with a mexican drawn across his face this is not racism…. agree or disagree with me, but that is what i think … and it is largely my relatives who live in arizona.
it is really is a clear-cut case of my having a major problem with my leaders’ cooperation with a policy of a neighboring country. you might disagree with my position, but it’s a stretch to try to paint it as “racism”.
If, as that protestor pretends to believe, Israel really controls the US….why does he think an Islamist Egypt would be *able* to destroy Israel? Wouldn’t the Zionist-controlled US Air Force simply bomb the living snot out of the great Islamic army?
These people make no sense, even in their own context. They contradict themselves within the same sentence. Pathetic, hysterical simpletons!
They are primitives, much like the Ghost Dance movement was: Divine intervention will turn the Americans’ bullets to water, etc etc.
So pathetic!
Mubarak at one time had these guys under his thumb but not anymore.
Proving that Egyptian Muslims are anti-Semitic is entirely superfluous (Do bears crap in the woods)? Anti-Semitism is doctrinal in Islam, and its pervasiveness amongst Egyptians has been well-known and thoroughly documented.
Unfortunately, there appears to be a high likelihood that any new Egyptian government will dishonor the Egyptian agreement with Israel, following in the tradition of Muhammad, whose god (labeled “the Great Deceiver” by Muhammad) conveniently revealed that treaties should be broken whenever convenient.
Israel desperately needs a new strategy, a kind of breakout from the land-for-peace and fruitless attempts at bargaining with the duplicitous PA, to deal with the growing menace on her borders. And the growing quest for a new Muslim Caliphate is a threat to all of us who value liberty over submission.
The Jew-hatred in the Islamic world is both deep and wide. Many are fond of explaining this as simply the outgrowth of the conflict between Zionism and Arab nationalism. There is no doubt that the conflict exacerbated to some degree the existing hatred towards Jews, but by how much?
Many Israelis and pro-Israel Jews and non-Jews believe that it’s a transient phenomenon, this sort of hatred. Or it really is somehow significantly Israel’s fault for not being more ‘malleable’ on settlements, borders, Jerusalem, etc. The great irony is that, starting with Oslo, Israel has been offering nearly everything.
The proof of this can be found in interviews like the recent one on Israeli TV with former PM Olmert. The map was shown of what he offered ‘Abu Mazen’ (a symbolic expression of Israeli ‘cool’ that the enemy’s ‘war name’ is the one that Olmert used, as a sign of respect). Israel would have given everything, save ‘return of the refugees’ (an outrageous Arab demand that became semi-consecrated after the PLO and its sponsors shrieked about it for decades). And Ehud Olmert said that this outcome is inevitable, that it was a great opportunity lost. He waved off the ascent and continuation of Hamas rule in Gaza by basically blaming Barak and the army for not overthrowing Hamas there in 2009.
I guess you can parse the difference in attitude of a protester who slaps a Magen David on Mubarak’s forehead and that of the MB and its shock troops. Then again, there may be no difference at all.
I appreciate the efforts of James May and Matthew to downgrade and/or rationalize these realities, but I don’t think the realities themselves care too much about that. Roger Simon, thanks, and I hope you realize that the democracy movements in the Arab world that some are now attributing to Bush in Iraq are a double-edged sword (so to speak).
And I in turn appreciate being told I use reason rather than an overly simplistic and stark depiction, apparently based on faith and 2% of a thousand posters, that a nuanced debate is in fact, a simple and empirical cement-like reality that is as easy to grasp as 2+2=4 yet which I cannot hope to attain to.
The water is wet, isn’t it?
And then there’s all that sand which gets in ones underwear and chafes like crazy and the remarks as cryptic and faceless as the Sphinx.
If this can happen in Egypt, it can happen here. Prepare.
Egypt kept its side of the peace deal with Israel for billions of dollars from the U.S. and military collaboration and arms. Egypt is a poor country without natural resources like oil. But its no different than every other Islamic country; Egyptians would like to see Israel disappear. The daily newspapers are filled with hate articles that seem drawn from some propaganda machine, and probably are. With Mubarak going down the risk to Israel is going up. With the whole region in turmoil the risk to Israel is extraordinarily high and gives the Iranians a larger playing field. I hope Obama is up to the task. He will have some very tough calls to make in the days ahead and so far he has been less than impressive.
Incorrect.
Please, look up data for Egypt on energy resources.
http://www.mbendi.com/indy/oilg/af/eg/p0005.htm
I don’t think we need to get into a discussion of whether actions have been anti-Western, anti-Jewish, anti-Zionist, anti-Israeli or anti-semitic; I’m not certain we can or need to draw so fine a distinction as is implied by those terms.
We need to realize that if Mubarek, as Egyptian leader, doesn’t represent the will of the Egyptian people, and his being viewed as “close” to Israel and the US is viewed as enough to topple him, then the entire peace process is at risk and the US strategic and policy decision comes down to whether to support Israel or not, as its Western border goes from being an irritating but manageable hostile site to one that is actively hostile and now has an additional well-armed and funded ally.
Any Egyptian government that refuses to honor its treaty commitments and withdraws from peace discussions should immediately and completely be removed from any support or favorable status in US military, economic, and alliance situations. This should be made abundantly clear to all parties. Since our government will be so muddleheaded that it won’t be able to make that decision, it’s up to the people to make that clear publicly to our Congress and to the Executive Branch.
I would agree with prior comments that immigration status or student/visitor status into the US by Muslims should be immediately limited and ultimately eliminated. Europe is already lost, through its own demographic tsunami: it will have Muslim majorities in most countries with 50 years. We and Asia (excluding Indonesia) must make the economic, political and (if necessary) military stand required to prevent Islamic hegemony.
Democracy or Jew-Hatred?
two, two, two mints in ONE
Democracy will allow the JEWHATE to manifest – Mubarek no less a jew-ISrael hater as are MOST MUSLIMS-held the line for MONEY -he lives better than Louis the French King and received modern wespons -paid off
A given that peace that will be violated immediately upon “democracy”- will of the people in Egypt is for war- when this happens, and it will- the ensuing chaos will be the crisis into the lurch as saviors? worst of the worst hardliners- the apologizers here can try and minimize or make pretend it’s not going to make a difernce- time to reclaim SINAI- land for peace has always been a scam
I think there is a tendency to overintellectualize what is being expressed. The Jew is the definition of what is evil and corrupt to many in the Muslim (and parts of the Christian) world. So it makes sense that they would paint Jewish symbols on the object of their anger.
To those who still repeat the mantra that it is something Israel has done, note Hassan Nasrallah’s comment that he hopes the Jews all gather in Israel so that it won’t be necessary to hunt them down all over the world.
Sorry, Mr. May, but you need to read a whole bunch of history books regarding how Muslims have treated the Jews living among them. If it was so great, then there would still be Jews in Arab lands. But aside from the ones in Iran (who are not allowed to leave), most Jews either fled or were exiled and their property stolen. Well before Israel existed, Arabs were quite happy to carry out pogroms with the blessings of the imams.
I’ve been in Egypt and Morocco where, if you do not give the demanding street urchins money, they call you a Jew. During the recent demonstrations, Mubarak blamed the revolt on the Mossad while the demonstrators picture Mubarak as a Jew. The Indonesian tsunami was blamed on Jewish death rays. The Mumbai massacre was blamed on “Hindu Zionists.” Logic is not a word Muslims are familiar with.
Where in the world in Egypt pray tell are these demanding street urchins since I have not encountered one in a year let alone have anyone even look at me cross-eyed or call me a Jew?
I have photographed all the great monuments where one would think they would be most in evidence, Abu Simbel, 4 days, Aswan, 5 days, Luxor Temple, Karnak, the West Bank, 4 weeks, Dendara, Abydos, Edfu, Kom Ombo, Giza, Saqarra and the total is one year.
How can you criticize someone for history when you can’t even portray current events in a way that is not hateful and bigoted and in the case of Egypt, a fantasy? Can our actual experience have been so totally different?
I have not been to Morocco. My instincts about you and your remarks about Egypt tell me no one would bother me or insult me.
While I’m browsing the history books for evidence of the mass expulsion of Jews in Islam before 1948 and 1967 was such a helpy helperton, (other than Spain and England) you might want to brush up on what an “Imam” is in Sunni culture.
In the case of the Indonesian tsumani, it has in fact been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was caused by Jewish death rays. I saw it on Al-Jazeera’s “Non-Discovery Channel”.
I’ll speak very slowly so that you understand.
Despising Israel and its policies is not anti-semitism. I have no feelings one way or the other about most Jews any more than I have about most people of any other religion.
However I do despise fanatical religious Jewish zealots who have grabbed Palestinian land and the support that the Israeli state gives to this. I also despise religiously fanatical Muslim Jihadists.
I am an equal opportunity religious fanatic hater. That includes redneck US Christian fundies by the way.
I shall type equally slowly, in equal hopes of the other side’s comprehension:
IN THE REAL WORLD, the overlap between opposition to Israel’s self-defense policies and anti-Semitism is so close and neat, as to make it a distinction without a meaningful difference.
I can’t say that I share your blanket hatred for religious fanaticism, nor do I feel a converse hatred for the passionately anti-religious among us. The ability to do either requires a certain gift for, well, fanaticism–and as that would suggest, a certain immunity to irony in the former case.
You keep saying that, but it doesn’t make it true.
Anti-semitism existed long before the modern state of Israel. The old bases for anti-seitism have no need for the state of Israel at all. By which I mean the ever-popular ‘Christ killer’ claim, the vast conspiracy theories, the simple fact of being different.
Likewise, occasionally Israel does some utterly stupid and/or dishonest things. It’s a modern state like any other, and supposed to be a democracy. It deserves to be criticized when it screws up, just like any other state.
You have absolutely no basis for claiming I’m wrong about either of those two statements. Instead you attempt a dishonest claim that, while it might be POSSIBLE to criticize Israel without being racist, in PRACTICE only racists ever criticize Israel. Word it however you like, but it’s still wrong, and obviously so. Every now and then, Israelis themselves criticize their government’s policies – that alone shows your reasoning is bunk.
Oh, I wouldn’t presume to imply that my saying something makes it true*. Rather than accepting my statements prima facie, any reader who’s uncertain on the subject should get out a bit, rub elbows with some of the involved parties, and then decide which of us is on the level.
And though I don’t expect you to LIKE my contradicting you, saying that I have “absolutely no basis” for doing so is puzzling. I said that in my reasonably normal experience, your claim involves a hypothesis for which real-world exemplars have been unavailing. If that seems like a weak basis for an opinion, we’ll have to disagree. And I’m a little curious what makes it “dishonest.” (Perhaps there’s something shifty about my punctuation.)
And when I mentioned Israel’s “self-defense policies,” I thought I’d sort of implied that I didn’t mean their tax policy or postal service.
* Not that I’m DISCOURAGING slavish fealty to my words to anyone so inclined.
Yes, master.
Sweet…
There Never was an Arab country of Palestine. Jerusalem was Never the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Jewish Bible, not once in the Koran.
The inalienable rights of Jews to the Biblical homeland must not be violated! No one is demanding Muslims surrender THEIR top religious areas of Mecca and Medina!
In 1948, Egypt invaded Gaza, ethnically cleansing all Jews and in 1948, Jordan invaded Judea, Samaria and east Jerusalem, ethnically cleansing all Jews.
In violent opposition to G-D, Muslim Jordan destroyed 58 synagogues in Jerusalem. The jihad is against the Holy One.
When Israel won the Arab war of aggression in 1967, Jews returned to the areas of their ancestral homeland they had been ethnically cleansed from for 19 years. Anti-Israel propaganda deceitfully calls Jews’ legitimate return “occupation”.
Jews have had a continuous presence in physical and spiritual homeland Israel for 4,000 years.
All Land and Property Stolen from Jews in the 1948 Islamic Invasion Must be Returned!
All the BS posted here shows that indeed the world still can’t wait to kill Jews. The bottom line is this: if you hate Israel because it exists, you are a Jew-hating bastard. If you hate Israel because it defends itself, you are a Jew-hating bastard. If you criticize Israel for the samething any other country has a right to do, you are a Jew-hating bastard. If you are a devout muslim you are a Jew-hating bastard. And finally, angry mobs painting Mogen Davids on Mubarak is not a Valentines message of love for these people.
“grabbed palestinian land”
please read up on the history and facts related to this totally inane statement touted around anti semitic halls
for the gullible to drool over.
He has perhaps been looking at footage of Normandy on D-Day with subtitles that say, ” Jews ‘emigrate’ to Palestine”.
“Jewish zealots who have grabbed Palestinian land”
Actually, its muslims/arabs who have squated on Jewish land. We’re just taking back what was once ours. They can go live in the rest of Palestine. Its called JORDAN.
Words, even the most aggressive, don’t always lead to action in the Arab world. They can be a substitute for action.
Is the ‘fabled’ Egyptian street antisemitic AND anti Israel (and don’t distinguish between the two)? Without doubt. But what will be the practical consequences of this be?
Even if the Brotherhood seize control, war between armies seems unlikely if only because the Egyptian military won’t agree to a defeat, although it may agree to raise the tension by moving troops into Sinai.
A Brotherhood government (freely elected with the blessing of Europe and America) will tear up the treaty between Israel and Egypt; stop supplies of gas and oil (they can get better prices, anyway); open the border with Gaza and loudly take up the position of Leader of the Rejection Front. At the same time they will declare that Israel is the aggressor in the tension, not them, and America has an obligation to prevent unrest boiling over into war by continuing the foreign aid.
What will a ‘secular’ ‘Freedom for the People’ government (assuming one is possible) do, is the big question.
Every where Islam thrives, violence thrives….so much for a religion of peace, they cannot even get along with themselves let any other country in the world.
The God of Israel will protect the Jews from the devil god allah and his deceived followers.
Bunc, change the last letter and you’ll have a perfect name to describe the depth of your moral corruption. That an individual sitting in the US (?), on essentially stolen land in the wake of endless gulling, deception and military conquest (needed to create the current US in its current scope) can ‘despise’ Israel shows that your words are empty ones. The ‘Palestinian lands’ are morally forfeited both by the Pal Arabs and their leadership, and by the ‘leaders’ of the Arab-Islamic sphere. Israel, which has returned about 85% of the lands taken in a war of survival in ’67, is nonetheless ‘despised’ by you, and this in the face of overwhelming evidence that multiple Israeli PMs offered the PA the remaining 15%. That’s basically all we need to know about the source of your views.
Arabs during WW II supported Hitler is it any wonder now that their hatred for the Jews is surfacing now. Guess what it never went away and has been passed down from one generation to the next. When will Western Civilization come to terms with the fact Islam is still in the 7th century and never, repeat never will advance until that so called moderates take control. I strongly doubt there are any moderates,so wake Western world and prepare for a long siege. there are ~100 million muslim terrorists wanting your head
This is very interesting to say the least. I am glad for this article whether everyone agrees with it or not.
The Islamic, rabid, murderous hate for Jews comes from many scriptures in the Koran:
Hamas Charter of Religious Hate and Religious Mass Murder:
‘Israel, by virtue of its being Jewish and of having a Jewish population, defies Islam and the Muslims. Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.’ “There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad.”
The Palestinian Authority’s Beliefs = Hamas’ Charter http://www.pmw.org.il/specrep-27.html
Egypt created the PLO. The PLO Charter calls for the destruction of Israel.
The Arab League’s Charter states its goal is to eradicate the Zionist entity.
Hezbollah leader Nasarallah: If they (Jews) all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide. (Daily Star, Oct. 23, 2002)
The planned Second Holocaust extends far beyond Israel. Leaflets were distributed in major British cities which included slogans such as: “The final hour will not come until the Muslims kill the Jews.”
Britain’s response? “police appeared reluctant to prosecute because the calls to fight the Jews were carefully couched in quotes from the Koran.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1370900/Extremist-backs-%27kill-Jews%27-poster.html
Because it was to Jews that G-D gave His Holy Laws, Jews are the number one target; all other non-Muslims are second. G-D’s eternal, unchanging Law is despised and hated. G-D commanded:
YOU SHALL NOT MURDER
Although it appears that Islam will destroy Israel, this will never happen. God will destroy many of the Islamic nations when they attempt an invasion of Israel, (see ezekial chapter 38).
John,
The Lieberman drawing as a pig is by Belgian cartoonist Ben Heine. You can seem more of his work here:
http://philosemitism.blogspot.com/2009/05/belgians-rapped-for-accepting-anti.html
and here
http://philosemitism.blogspot.com/2009/03/israel-bashing-ben-heine-cartoons-in.html
Could someone please explain to me how this is different from the cornucopia of racist signs that have been photographed at Tea Party rallies? The situation and the evidence in both cases are absolutely identical, but my recollection is that PJM steadfastly maintained that the Tea Party is in no way, shape or form racist. The conclusion put forth here is completely contradictory to that position.
For the record, I think you were right the first time; there’s nothing in the core of the Egyptian protests that are antisemetic, regardless of whether there are antisemites in the crowd.
It seems that the muslim world as always is taking advantage of exploiting a situation to promote radical Islamic extremism. It is a very clever trick given the muslim world antisemitism is very similar to Nazism. Geert Wilders is 100 percent right in stating radical Islam the real Islam is a threat to freedom and democracy world wide. In reality given i support Israel 100 percent, i also support the people of Egypt right for democratic reform and the fact Mubarak has been in power for more than 30 years is something that would drive any population to become angry and revolt after many years. Israel smart thing to do is to praise the people of Egypt for allowing democratic reform and encourage that the same thing happens in Iran. Ahmadinejad and the Islamic revolutionary guard will have their backs against the wall with a taste of their own medicine. This idea of going against Israel and Jews and Christians and all infidels is not new as it has been around since the 7th century. It is a great shame people cannot see what Sir Winston Churchill was talking about regarding one of the great retrograde forces in the world. I support Geert Wilders, Pat Condel Atheist who blasted Islam, Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch, Brigitte Gabriel for ACT 4 America, Theo Van Gogh who murdered for telling the truth about Islam. Also people like Salmun Rushdie who wrote the Satanic verses should serve as a example of what has happened to the muslim world when the truth was told as he received death threats around the world because of what told on a book. I also support Orriana Fallaci views regarding political Islam and Wafa Sultan ex-muslim Phd truth regarding Islam totalitarian, fascist, militant ideology pushing to destroy western civilization with Islamisation and sharia. More atrocities have been done in the name of Islam in the last 1,400 years in which more than 270 million people have been killed in its name. Over 16,000 terrorists attacks around the world have been made in the last decade because of Islamic beliefs. This does not include the conflicts in Israel in which murdering thugs use their propaganda to fuel war against the infidels. While i am strongly 100 percent anti-Islam as Geert Wilders i do support Egypt people right for democratic reform as just. I am against criminals who try to come into power such as radical Islamic extremist groups such as Hamas, or the Muslim brotherhood which has ties to terrorism around around the world. The best thing Israel can do now is praise support for the people of Egypt for democratic reform and let them choose who they want to. Now the fact they could have the option of replacing one dictatorship with a more dangerous one such as a radical muslim extremist i would say then, the revolution of Egypt was a failure if this was the main cause. There is no doubt in my mind that muslim terrorists are exploiting the situation in Egypt for anti-Israel and anti-USA propaganda. If Egypt accepts a secular government with a real democracy which will honor the code with Israel for peace then fantastic. If the Egyptians are planning to use this to replace one dictatorship with another one then ultimately there was no point in the protest because if they allow a radical muslim extremist group to come into power then there is no true democratic reform other than the fact they would support terrorists coming into power the same way those terrorists of Hamas came into power into Gaza. Israel does not have to do anything to please anyone and i support Israel right to self defense. I am 100 percent against the creation of a Palestinian state as the nature of creating i would consider offensive to the core given Israel has gotten nothing in return other than being stabbed in the knife on the back for failed peace deals. The land given with the withdraw from Gaza in 2005 did it bring peace to Israel? No, because ultimately the muslims and the so called followers of Allah really want to push Islamisation and Sharia world wide and that includes the creation of a muslim state called Palestine. In reality nobody mentions the racism and discrimination Palestinian Christians face in the hands of muslims of Palestine. In reality this has always been a religious war founded on the hypocrisy from the psychopath Mohammed a narcissist,murdering, misogynist, pedophile, war mongering, liar, thief who preached the world’s biggest satanic death cult into this world. Political correctness has blinded us from the real truth about Islam violent and brutal past of high level of intolerance and arrogance for racial superiority above all other religions. Islam has no such thing as tolerance in its context and was never meant to have any. This is a world wide problem that should be addressed to anyone who is concerned about the future of this world. I hope sincerely that the same thing that happened in Egypt will happen soon in Iran for the good of humanity. Ahmadinejad is the most dangerous man in the world and he robbed Mousavi and the green party of its rightful place.