Comments on: Defending Waltz With Bashir

By: Augean Stables » Waltzing with Wolves: Rosenthal vs. Goldman on the meaning of the film

Wed, 25 Feb 2009 04:42:49 +0000

[...] John Rosenthal savages the movie in a two-part article, then Lisa Goldman returned the favor by savaging Rosenthal. Then Rosenthal [...]

By: bam4050

bam4050 — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 01:41:43 +0000

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2009/02/waltz_with_bash.html – not the only blogger to be rfoaming at the mouth about this movie.

By: P. Ami

P. Ami — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 01:02:28 +0000

Oh yeah,

“…what ethnicity are you anyway? And does that influence your commentary here?”

What the hell kind of stupid question is that? It was pretty clear from my first comment that my grandparents are concentration camp survivors and I am the second generation of my family to serve in the IDF. What freakin ethnicity does that sound like to you? I would imagine that my commentary here would be different if I was a Hindu or Turk so I would say that yes, ethnicity influences my commentary.

By: P. Ami

P. Ami — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:56:13 +0000

Chuck,

What happened, did you pick up a book on grammar terms the other day, liked what you read, and decided to subject the world wide web to your newest distraction?

I can’t count the number of times I’ve read your comments in memo form, all chucked about this site, dripping with condescension and programmed talking points even as you admit to not having put much effort in an in depth study of that which you hold such strong opinions of.

Yes sir, the opening sentence of my last comment was an interrogative. You see, my first language happens to be English rather then French. While the French have differentiated forms for their written and spoken language we English speakers are allowed to write in the same form that we speak in. So, when I wrote, “Micha made a great point regarding your need to comment on things you know nothing about and your response is to get serially and obsessively pedantic?”, I constructed a sentence meant to convey incredulity. As another example, “You know nothing about the a subject and you’re still willing to opine so strongly”?

Oh, and before you decide to correct my use of conjunctions to begin a sentence, I suggest you bite into the meat of people’s criticism of your views rather then distract yourself from the shallowness of your thoughts with the sound of your grinding on gristle. Your grammar lessons are ad hominum distractions.

By: Chuck Pelto

Chuck Pelto — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 20:04:27 +0000

TO: P Ami
RE: Responses

“Micha made a great point regarding your need to comment on things you know nothing about and your response is to get serially and obsessively pedantic?” — P Ami

That’s an ‘interrogative’?

Maybe you should take some more classes in English before communicating further. I’d recommend focusing on punctuation.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. So…..

…what ethnicity are you anyway? And does that influence your commentary here?

By: TalkinKamel

TalkinKamel — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:34:19 +0000

Meanwhile, when are we going to see a film about the genocide in Darfur? Or Islamic terrorism in the Philippines? Or the modern day persecution of Jews and Christians around the world? (And it’s gotta be set in our era; no fair putting it in WWII, or ancient Rome!)

By: Dave

Dave — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:06:21 +0000

I don’t consider myself a leftist or a dove, but films are films. Are we going to pretend that Israeli soldiers don’t watch porn or take pot shots at animals? Does the legitimacy of the IDF hang in the balance? Not to me it doesn’t.
When a nation is mature enough to appreciate realism in its cinema, that’s a good sign. Should the US stick to John Wayne war movies only?
Generally speaking, I appreciate Mr. Rosenthal’s columns about Europe. But in this case, Ms. Goldman’s comments ring truer to me.
Of all the critical posts of Goldman, the only one with veracity is JJ Sefton’s. Indeed, as a nation whose reputation and very “right to exist” are seemingly always on trial, Israel does have to worry about its reputation in a way that other nations don’t. But this is a good, compelling film, and should be appreciated as such.
I have an old friend who was 18 when Israel’s War of Independence broke out. She had just enrolled in teaching school but wanted to help her country by joining the military. “Stay in school,” they told her. “The nation will need teachers.” That sort of big picture thinking is what’s needed here. Israel is far beyond the stage of requiring flat, two dimensional, censor-friendly, scripted war films.

By: Raeefa

Raeefa — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 15:18:34 +0000

Rosenthal’s original critique of Waltz with Bashir and his subsequent response to Lisa Goldman are, quite frankly, ridiculous. I watched this film a while back with two other friends – all three of us fiercely love and support Israel and consider ourselves center-right on the political spectrum in regards to Israel. We all thought this was an excellent film with a compelling story and amazing, innovative animation. None of us thought there was anything anti-Israel about the film.

It isn’t anti-Israel to depict Israeli soldiers killing civilians and watching porn. The former occurs in the fog of war – unless you’re saying that 18,19-year old Israeli soldiers are superhuman and will never mistake civilians for terrorists or fire at an unknown vehicle out of fear, this seems to me to be a realistic depiction of the fear and confusion that occurs in war, no matter how righteous and necessary that war may be. The same is with the latter – are Israeli soldiers so pure and holy that not a single one would consider jerking off to German porn? Really?

Rosenthal’s critique is the flip side to the sanctimonious double standards against Israel issued out by the left. For them, Israel is not allowed to be a flawed entity, just like all other nations on earth; whatever mistakes Israel makes are magnified to be the greatest crimes in human history. For them, Israel is either perfect, which no nation can be, or it has “lost” the right to exist. Apparently for Rosenthal, depicting Israel with these flaws that make it a normal nation (though certainly better than most in the world)is also a sin.

By: Ken Besig

Ken Besig — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:53:52 +0000

What a sense of deja vu I had when I read Lisa Goldman’s puerile and silly review of this Israel bashing, anti Semitic, and largely fictional movie. I am a Viet Nam veteran, as well as a 14 year veteran of the Israel Defence Forces Medical Corps, and in all my service I have never seen the sorts of things Ms. Goldman describes in this movie, nor have I ever encountered IDF soldiers or officers who behaved in the manner she describes. Of course, the American Left said the same sorts of things about those of us Viet Nam vets, you know we were all baby killers, indiscriminate murderers of civilians, uncaring, drugged up, psychotic violence freaks of the lowest order who burned down entire villages with their inhabitants inside for the fun of it, and even produced large budget Hollywood movies “proving” these untrue and ridiculous charges.
I realize that Ms. Goldman actually lives in Israel, but I wonder which Israel she actually resides in. I am more than willing to bet that she has never in all her experience here met the sort of Israeli Jews that Mr. Folman depicts in his film. Further, I would suggest that Mr. Folman produced this film and financed it in Europe because he firmly believed that the lies and false characterizations he produced would bring him fame, fortune, and an Oscar. After all, he hates Israel, and knows full well that in the foreign market, and to some small extent the Israeli market, hammering Israel and and fomenting hatred of Israel is usually a sure way to make money. The trouble is he went to the United States, where most Americans have the sense to see through his falsehoods and fictions, and thus they didn’t award him a prize for his perverted, false, and twisted imaginary story of Israel.
I would suggest that Mr. Folman be ashamed of himself for the terrible movie he produced and the lies he has disseminated about Israel, but I know that as a Left wing Israeli Jew he has long since lost any sense of honor or honesty or even simple morality and has lost any sense of shame.
Again, I ask why does Pajamas Media continue to print the silly, puerile, ridiculous nonsense produced by Lisa Goldman? This woman clearly is totally out of touch with Israeli society and seems to get her news and commentary from the Haaretz newspaper, the smallest, most hard Left wing, most anti Israel and anti Jewish newspaper in Israel. Either that or she just makes this stuff up herself, which is just what Haaretz does too!

By: J.J. Sefton

J.J. Sefton — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 12:26:42 +0000

I have not seen this film, nor, given its description and above commentary, am I ever likely to.

While I defend any artist’s right to express themselves, the artist has to be conscious of the world in which he lives. With the world so openly hostile to Israel and Jews, why would anyone – especially a Jew – want to add fuel to the already lit bonfires? To what end? Yes, being “anti-war” is noble. But in the real world it is childish and idiotic. No sane person wants war. But going to war is sadly still necessary to defend oneself and one’s country and to prevent the slaughter of innocents.

If showing how horrible war is was the filmmaker’s intention, he should have set the piece on Mars with two fictional armies/nations.

Jews/Israelis showing how bad they can be as a way of trying to prove we’re just like everyone else is one lousy example.

Yes, and the fact that this has been recognized by the Academy is a major warning bell as well.