Debate Over Tea Party Protest Numbers Masks the Real History Made
It is a truism that protests in American history have been pretty much the province of the left. This shouldn’t surprise anyone, since most protests — especially in the 20th century — were to support the liberals’ idea of “progress” and the advancement of civil rights for blacks, women, Hispanics, gays, and other minorities.
Mass protest movements including civil rights, labor, anti-war, and others were organized and promoted from the left or far left. Nothing wrong with this, considering that that for which liberals were agitating was as all-American as apple pie. The struggle for equality continues today with varying degrees of rationality and justification. But no one denies we’re a better country because of these mostly non-violent, sometimes non-partisan protests.
The last time an identifiably conservative protest movement emerged was at the turn of the last century with some of the populist movements. William Jennings Bryan thought to ride his “prairie populism” all the way to the White House, delivering one of the most inspirational convention speeches in American history (“[W]e shall answer their demands for a gold standard by saying to them, you shall not press down upon the brow of labor this crown of thorns. You shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold.”) His rhetoric got him the 1896 Democratic nomination, but he lost big to McKinley in the general election. Significantly, Bryan swept the south, the lower Midwest, and the Mountain West.
But it is hard to say that Bryan’s movement was very broad or deep. The emerging middle class rejected his weird ideas on species decisively, fearing (quite rightly) that his switch to a “free silver” standard from the gold standard would be ruinously inflationary. True, inflated dollars would have wiped out the indebtedness of farmers. But wage earners would have been destroyed. Hence, the Populist Party and other reactions to the nearly 30 year hegemony of the GOP at that point failed to unite effectively to qualify as a true ideological movement.
Prior to that, one might choose to interpret the Whiskey Rebellion as a “conservative” populist movement in that it was a reaction to what was seen as the heavy hand of government imposing a tax on whiskey (which was the only way poor farmers on the nearly roadless frontier could transport their crops, having turned their grain into whiskey for that purpose). But this was a very small movement and quickly disbanded by President Washington’s show of force.
What makes Saturday’s massive turnout around the country so significant is that it is the first truly conservative mass movement in American history. The amorphousness of conservatism until the 1950s probably had something to do with that. Conservatism prior to then was rather clubby and its “leaders” had very little interest in developing a mass movement like labor, socialists, or communists were attempting to do. Even the candidacies of Goldwater and Reagan were more party-oriented than ideological in nature, although there is little doubt that conservative activists learned how to organize an effective movement by being involved in both those races.
Rick,
Your piece is educational and contains many interesting points. I disagree with a portion of your analysis, however.
All evidence suggests that President Obama, at a minimum, has strong socialist tendencies. His “Joe the Plumber” remark neatly unmasked his prediliction. He has run with a radical socialist crowd most of his adult life. His policies are political and frequently anti capitalist. He is a controler. He shows an extremely consistent socialist bias. Marx was obviously a powerful influence in the formation of his political persona. He has brought many leftist radicals into his administration, Van Jones being but one example.
Correctly identifying the President as a socialist, should not be condemned, but embraced for it’s accuracy.
I also take issue with your characterization of Hannity, Rush etc as “pop” conservatives. This comment is inherently condescending and smacks of the same arrogance the mainstream media reserves for condemnation of the alternative media. These commentators may not have the eloquence of Buckley or the roots of Burke, but they are authentic and powerful spokespeople.
Those things being said, I appreciate your article for the history it uncovers and the points it makes, even if I disagree with certain parts. Keep up the analysis.
The Tea Party movement is conservative in one sense, liberal in another, and outside those categories in a third, supremely important sense.
First, just as with the original American Revolution, the Tea Party movement is a rising in defense of property rights. The colonists were not nearly as exercised over England’s other oppressions as they were over its assertion of the taxing power and its confiscations-by-Parliamentary-decree of this and that (cf. the Pine Tree Flag). Property rights are a quintessentially conservative theme.
Second, the Tea Parties represent a demand that the people be heard in the face of the unsubtle attempts to silence all opposition to the Obamunist agenda. We haven’t yet experienced overt censorship, but the Left’s tactics of intimidation, coupled to the Old Media’s obvious allegiance to the Obama Administration, have made the standard news organs about as useful to the common man as Pravda was to the average Russian during the Soviet regime. Freedom of expression, of course, is a classically liberal theme.
But third and towering above those other, lesser conceptions, the Tea Parties are an assertion of popular sovereignty. Washington is being put on notice that its authority derives, by Constitutional principle, from the consent of the governed, and that the governed are withdrawing their consent. This libertarian motif, first expressed in the Declaration of Independence and multiply instantiated in the Constitution, is at the heart of all American political thought. Without it, the United States would be just one more satrapy in which the State can do what it pleases, when it pleases, to whomever it pleases, without fear of resistance, reproof, or rebuff.
But as with all communications, the significance of this one will inhere in the response it gets. We shall see.
Since moving to Israel last year I have not been longing to go back to the US, particularly with Obama now in power.
However, when I heard about the Tea Party Express I had a real urge to return. For practical reasons this was impossible, but suffice it to say that if I was in the US wild horses could not have kept me from attending the DC event.
By the way, I have NEVER been to a mass protest before.
Kudos to all the organizers and the attendees. Special thanks to Glenn Beck for promoting it and waking up the masses. Watching his show every day at the YES satellite channel is invigorating.
Go Glenn!!
Lord forbid anyone call Obama a socialist for advocating and implementing socialist policies. Rick Moran needs to brush up on his Fabian socialism before he sanctimoniously proclaims anyone who offends his tender sensibilities a lair. Wake up Moran!
Samizdat and Francis,
Very nice comments.. thank you!
Frances, to answer your last question about what kind of response this 9/12 DC march is going to get?
It is going to be HUGE! I have never seen anything like it. People are energized and getting mobilized. The Patriots are using the “tactics” of the Alinsky left to challenge “head-on” the socialists in this country.
Watch out America! ANY politician that stands in the way of this movement is “dead meat” come election time. People are fed up with socialism, theft and corruption in government.
God bless the United States of American. God bless our Patriots!
“The undeniable truth: this is the first truly conservative mass movement in American history. ”
Congratulations on your first mass protest. The couch potatoes finally got up. Now your transition to liberalism has started. This is great! One of these days you won’t be able to tell Reds & Blues.
Signed,
An Independent
“And the moment it is co-opted by the Republicans, I predict a lot of steam will go out of it.”
These people could care less about the approval of the “moderate” Republicans. They will refuse to be co-opted by them. The Tea movement is comprised of mature and knowledgeable citizens—committed to the long run. These are not kids trying to have some fun playing radical revolutionary. They also mostly financially stable individuals able to purchase reading materials and donate to their favorite politicians. Oh yes, they are indeed a force to be reckoned with. None of them trust the MSM and other left-wing institutions. Their faith has instead been redirected to radio talk show hosts like Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, and Pajamas Media. Red and purple elected officials fear them far more than they do Barack Obama. The president is no longer a major factor. He is a lame duck unable to do anything significant. Obama should consider resigning from office in the near future.
During the night (I just couldn’t sleep) I was reading and posting on the (don’t laugh, damnit!) Washington Post site regarding this event for awhile, until I noticed that the Leftists posting there didn’t have a single argument, and instead were just flinging epithets like:
KKKers
John Birchers
Old White Folks
Crackers
etc. etc. etc.
And I suddenly realized that – while it’s not pissing in the wind to post there – the only sensible response to the Left (whether the Antique Media, Leftist posters, whomever) is to
point out what a bunch of sad sacks and losers these people are,
to mindlessly attack Democrats, Republicans, Independents and Libertarians – in short, plain and simple English – to attack all Americans.
They are isolating themselves even more…as “the real history,” as you describe, moves on.
I think its great that the hard right, corporate interests took lessons from the left, organized and took to the streets to voice their anger against paying taxes and other issues near to their hearts. Its their right, they feel pride and its all good fun. How many show up (whether its a hundred or 10,ooo) is not important, its the fact that they are out there, raising the debate that is important in my opinion. After all, they are only doing what the far left have done for years to advocate for integration and human rights. I see only strength in the freedom of speech.
Francis Poretto: excellent and enlightened analysis. I agree that this movement cannot be placed inside a box to be defined nor categorized. It’s huge and amorphous and that’s a good thing. Thank you for your insight.
Rick, go sit with Frum. Nothing “ginned up” about our outrage against the National Socialists and the Beltway GOP. You don’t get it. You haven’t been paying attention. Even Rush is lagging, he is still saying Independents are moderates. Many of us Independents are former Democrats who have contempt for both parties. The discredited and corrupted Republican party is only useful as a vehicle to elect conservatives. I look forward to a White House and Congress with people of no party affiliation. I recoil when I see self serving Republicans like squishy Newt and sleazy Dick Armey try to appropriate the Tea Party rebellion. (There was a FreedomWorks logo on the podium at the Capitol yesterday. Not acceptable.)
“… the moment it is co-opted by the Republicans, I predict a lot of steam will go out of it.”
Must we assume that this “real history being made” will be co-opted, and that its numbed-down/dumbed-down end is inevitable?
Assuming Mr. Moran’s prediction is correct, then I guess the priority simply becomes this: we will NOT let the Republicans co-opt what is happening.
“Republican leadership” is an oxymoron and “irrelevant” is the default adjective for them. We can make it our business to be sure they remain exactly that–irrelevant.
Mr. Moran if you’re going to tell the rest of the story why not call it like it is?
Not only are the Tea Party numbers the first truly conservative mass movement in American history; their movement marks the first time in our country’s history that a President has declared his own personal level all out war against the people of the United States of America.
Had Mr. Obama been wise he would have left the issues to their own level; each with it’s own energy, life and subsequent solutions that would have been acceptable to the majority of the people.
Instead, he arrogantly chose to move himself into the forefront of everything voters were upset about; illegal immigration, cap and trade, healthcare reform and so forth.
Then came his fatal mistake.
Obama issued the citizens of America ultimatums that in essence say, “How dare you underlings even question my authority and power, much less think that you can overcome or stop it!” and “You are going to do what I tell you to whether you like it or whether you don’t like it!”
No person, nor nation or group has ever challenged our entire country at once in this manner and lived to tell about it. Not the British, the Confederacy, the Japanese, Hitler, Stalin and extremist Islamic terrorists among many others.
Mr. Obama is going to loose.
I agree that this movement is based on the ideas of small government, individual freedom……in essence property rights..
As such it is much more naturally aligned with the core principals of the Republican party and anathema to the democrat SStatist party. The natural fit is to co-op the Republican party.
David Thomson, Gary Ogletree, and Meryl,
Perhaps the author is getting his “talking (drooling?) points” from vivosection these days.
It was clearly a gathering of 2 million Democrats, Republicans, Independents and Libertarians….among many, many, plain old Americans.
Moran’s take on Tea Parties:
“When you get some money, organization, professionalism, and a little more realism, come back and see me.”
http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2009/02/27/weak-tea/
The phone has been ringing for some time. The prediction about morphing into a new party? Of course it will. Either the GOP will be taken over our it will disappear since it has almost nothing to attract vigorous support. The GOP mostly is a shell bouncing between Senators Graham, Snowe, McCain and the political elite.
Sir:
I draw attention to your sentence below which is a bunch of hogwash. “It is unnecessary to brand Obama a “communist” or even a “socialist” to realize that his policies spell disaster for individual liberty and the free market economy.”
Yes it is is necessary to draw attention to the radical communist elements of the left who dominate the CZARS and other high level cabinet and advisory posts. Not to mention the President himself, friends and associates in the Undergroudn like Bill Ayers and other wacko nut jobs in congress who are self avowed communists.
I have noticed the reticense of media people like yourself to speak the truth about these people. They are communists. They have no problem writing about their beliefs and speaking ad nauseum. So call it the way it is my friend.
Of course the C word is a lightening rod and will attract the contempt that they deserve for continuing to believe in the worst system of oppression known in history. In spite of all the history and evidence being on our side.
Regards
Tommy Gunn
Ed Wallis @8 – I occasionally visit the WaPo as well; having grown up in DC it reminds me of why I never want to live there. But it hit me last night for some reason that if anyone wants to look at what happens when you let the Feds run things, one never has to look further than DC itself, with its horrendous schools, terrible divisions between wealth and poverty, and its crime rate. It has some measure of home rule now (not the case when I was a kid, when it was fully run by a singularly racist Congressional committee), but conditions certainly haven’t improved. Scary thing that the Left would like us all to live like that.
Rick,
Very good article. Add yours to Francis (post #2) and you have the truth. For the past decade or more, we voters, claiming neither allegiance to the Republican or Democratic parties, have voted in shame for the “lessor of two evils”. We have lost the truth of a “Republic” meaning a state in which sovereign power is invested in representatives CHOSEN by the PEOPLE to govern. And Government is the PEOPLE and it’s FROM the people to the leaders, NOT from the leaders to the people. I believe it important to note that the vast majority of those in attendance and those spread throughout this great country understand what liberty is all about – which is freedom; the right of power to live one’s own life without threats, fear or some sort of retaliation. It is my fervent hope, my prayer, that individuals from all 50 of our great states will unite in a common purpose, and that’s love for country. A country that is defined by the Declaration of Independence and supported by our Constitution. Your absolutely right that the numbers don’t count. I have the wonderful privilege to travel throughout this great country, spend time in the mom & pop diners, to engage in conversation with hard working, and yes tax paying, patriots that have had enough of socialism and big government. The people are looking for truth, for individuals that have morals and integrity, individuals that will not bend to big business, unions or lobbyist. Twenty ten elections could very well be a turning point in our great country but just as Francis said, “We shall see”.
Hooray for all the people who took the streets yesterday, hooray for America!
My read on who is attending the TEA parties and 9.12 events is a bit different–neither party can control it, for now, and neither can co-opt it, for now. It feels like several groups are switching sides and joining the ever-growing ranks of Independents. Moderate Democrats fear their party has gone crazy and just as fiscal conservatives fear the Republican leadership has been hanging out with too many drunken sailors, or have adopted their spending habits. And older people are just pissed, rightly so, at having a President who has almost declared open warfare on them living long enough to need health care services–this President’s “Inconvenient Truth”.
Our President and his handlers see the world through the prism of identity politics. Many Americans view the country that came from the efforts of rugged individualists as better than where we are heading now. So, the groups that the President is not listening to and trying to shut down, have joined together through common beliefs and principles. And now the race is on, which will prevail?
Personally, I hope the MSM and the President continue to underestimate the power of the people. It will make the 2010 and 2012 elections that much more interesting.
#11 Gary Ogletree: Many of us Independents are former Democrats who have contempt for both parties.
AMEN! The corruptocrats on both sides of the aisle are un-American anti-Constitution zealots. The Republicans only take a little longer in supporting the Left’s “government is god” National Socialist state. And, now, it seems certain retired military officers are providing succor to Obama and his cult. Disgusting. Contemptible. Outrageous.
#6
Actually we leave work to go protest! Don’t project your self on us!
“…gather ye rosebuds while ye may…”
You’ve been sleeping for 50 years while the radicals indoctrinated your children and your grandchildren. Now the Bolsheviks dance in the palace and you think this demonstration will stop them? =:obama flew over the crowds in returning from more triumphal theater. They must have hooted with laughter aboard Marine One.
There is a fundamental flaw in the logic used here in the comments section. People describe the Usurper as a socialist. Then they turn around and try to forecast the results of the protests on the 2010 election.
If the Usurper is as much of a Socialist as claimed, there will be no election in ’10. Once Hitler was in power, there were no more elections. Ditto for Mussolini, Stalin, Chevaz, at. al. Chevaz did hold fake elections, which fooled no one except peanut Carter.
History says the Usurper will find some excuse to cancel the 2010 elections. He can do that legally, so long as Congress allows him to. Since Congress will be the ones losing their meal tickets in 2010, i suspect they will go along with the suspension of the Constitution for the duration of the ‘emergency’.
That is when the Civil War will start. I hope you are getting ready now. Next summer will be to late.
Gary, Meryl, David Thomson,
Ok, great posts. I resigned as a member of the Republican National Commitee in January 2007. I am a conservative, not a Republican. All that being said, what is the next step for us? I will only support conservative candidates, some of which will be Republicans. However, I now don’t have a party to be afilliated with. There are tens of millions of us, it’s ridiculous we don’t have a party. What are your thoughts about this challenge?
The tea party protests are just getting warmed up. We need to continue the pressure and increase it. Yesterday was a significant expansion and extension of the protest. If I were a Democrat I would be very nervous. People are begining the process of removing them from power. November 2010 is going to be a wave election. The stalls are about to be cleaned out.
The President is being exposed for what he is, as is the liberal side of the Democrat Congress. Americans are not going to put up with socialism. To borrow a concept, “the problem with socialism is what do you do after you rum out of other peoples money?”
One final point. Please don’t respond to the trolls or bother reading their regurgitated Marxist drivel. Marxists are adherents to a demonstrably failed ideology. It is not worth taking the time to read their spew or waste time composing responses. Let them wallow in their misery by themselves.
And if you need a little comedy relief go read the stories about the rally in the SF Chron.
That should have been run in the third paragraph of my previous post, instead of rum. I admit my typing skills leave alot to be desired.
I am not sure why we have to debate the idea that there are true Marxist and/or authoritarian leanings in our current leadership. There is ample evidence based on administration personnel: Sunstein, Holdren, Holder, Brauner, E. Emanuel (see his article with suicide-enthusiast Margaret Battin in New England Journal of Medicine, his writings at The Hastings Center) and Jones until recently. Now let’s look at another association: Jeff Jones of The Apollo Alliance (the people who drafted much of the stimulus). Jones works for the NY governor as a consultant on how to spend stimulus money for green reforms, labor and education issues. Jeff Jones was a leading member of the Weather Underground. I could go on with a list of associations, but it gets old.
Now I’d like to move on to the nature of this movement; It is not manufactured nor ginned up. I am neither white, nor republican; I am, however, a person that believes that rule of law is essential, and I have lived in enough other countries to know a good, if not perfect, thing when I see it. I do not like to see the checks and balances of our govt structure dissolved. I do not like to see people taught to depend or allow themselves to be coddled.
Our president has stated that our constitution is a body of negative rights and doesn’t tell you what govt should do for you; well that was the entire point of it – your rights are not granted or removed by a leader or a party. They are unalienable.
How can President Obama campaign against Americans? Apparently, in his silk bubble, Obama believes he can; however, he ignores the obvious at his own delusional peril. President Obama is embarrassing himself & his administration since he is in CAMPAIGN MODE instead of governing. We have recognized President Obama to be the rigid radical Leftist since he started campaigning 2 years ago. The other Americans–who more than likely voted for Obama–are now wide awake & aware of Obama’s Statist pedigree.
I am impressed with the massive turnout in DC, yet the MSM continues to ignore the movement. I believe the Tea Parties will continue to grow as a result of Obama’s Statist goals to turn America into a quasi-dictatorship & the horizontal moderate Republicans need to be reminded that selling out their souls to the Devil is never a good thing.
The Tea Parties will continue to make history as the confused befuddled Obama team misdirects their propaganda at the RNC when it is truly a grassroots movements of all Americans–Republicans, Democrats, & Independents.
I do remember when the reason given for the decline of the Democratic Party was that the Republicans had learned a few things from ‘being in the woods’. Then they came to power and quickly turned into a mirror image of the Democratic Party believing that government can do so much ‘good’ for you.
Now we have two parties that desperately need time in the woods. Those wanting a re-energized D or R party miss the point: they are not serving the public, but their backers. The backers of the D and R parties are so narrowly focused that they miss the fact that government is for all the people, not just special interests.
We need a third party to put the other two into the wilderness for awhile and get them used to the idea that they serve the people and the Nation, not its special interest groups. And that you can’t spend money that the American people don’t make… and the more government spends, the less the people have to fend for themselves and the weaker the Nation becomes. Yet our charitable giving is heavy, individual based and highly effective… there is a disconnect between ‘wanting good outcomes’ and ignoring that the people are set up to handle those on their very own without government ‘help’. And that would be revolutionary, today… just as it was a couple of centuries ago.
I’m a registered Republican but strictly for convenience. I believe there should be a viable opposition party to the Insane Clown Posse-D, but until one shows up, I’ll stick with Insane Clown Posse-R, even though I have no real use for a lot of Republicans.
I’m personally worried that it’s being hijacked by the far right. Don’t get me wrong, I have a lot of libertarian views but I’m ultimately a pragmatist. All these “END THE FEDERAL RESERVE” and “NO MORE EMPIRE SPENDING” worry me. It’s typical of the extremist nutty Ron Paul movement and is now being popularized even more by Glenn Beck who is also an isolationist. Again, don’t get me wrong, I agree with most of what Beck says but not everything. And my biggest gripe with the new right is that a lot of them seem to hate the Republican Party just as much as the Democrat Party and they’re extreme isolationists and moral relatavists (which disturbingly reminds me a lot of the left). I’m worried they’ll try to create a 3rd party and thus will doom to the Republicans to never winning another election. They’ll get maybe 15-20% of the vote at most and will slowly dwindle to insignificance after frustrating losses. It’s better to improve the Republican Party and to work within the Republican Party but I’m worried that they won’t. They have to be realistic. Third parties don’t work in America. Even Ron Paul knew that. All they’re going to accomplish by going 3rd party is ensuring the marxist Democraps win election after election. Join or Die my fellow right wingers! Divided We Fall.
Thanks, samizdat and francis porretto for your excellent analyses.
I think that’s a key point: the people are withdrawing their consent. Congress and the WH have been living in a bubble, considering themselves the Rulers and viewing The People only as a ‘Mass’ to be ignored or derided and dismissed – and manipulated.
These Tea Parties are also showing a switch in the mode of political activity. The MSM, which has long been the zone of the left, is becoming irrelevant. People are using grassroots or direct electronic communication – email, twitter, Internet, Utube etc; they aren’t beholden to the MSM for information or communication.
That makes it more difficult for an authoritarian government to repress crticism. What is also important is that this movement is a movement AWAY from ideology. The left is based around ideology, a utopian ideolog of If Only you will do ‘this’, THEN, all will be perfect.
The Tea Parties aren’t based around any ideology and it is obvious from the left’s frantic attempts to denigrate these protests (name-calling of astroturf, Nazi, mob, KKK, Birch etc)..that they don’t understand people protesting, without an ideology.
Instead, these protests are rooted in, not an abstract ideology but in actual FACTS. The Constitution. They are protesting this Obama’s movement away from the Constitution…which is itself focused around, not an ideology, but the factual reality of the rights and actions of the individual.
That makes these Tea Parties remarkable..and even though Washington is desperately trying to ignore them..this only shows that their preference is for ideology over reality. And that’s a dangerous choice for any government.
The Tea Party Protest must have been big enough, it ran the Messiah out of town.
Characterizing the TP movement as grassroots is laughable, but surely politically expedient. On the other hand, the right has certainly engaged in direct action in the past. Driven by greed, paranoia and racism, the TP movement clearly is a vehicle for GOP racism and lies be promoted without sullying the Republican brand.
I’ll grant that some protesters are genuine, but the movement itself is not. This is a corporate protest, and calling it grassroots only shows how desperate for relevance the right has become.
Peace.
DS
#11 Gary — right on! The Republican party isn’t going to co-opt us, we’re going to co-opt THEM to OUR truly conservative purposes.
vivo, the ‘couch potatoes’ you speak of in attendance in D.C. were active duty and military veterans. As well as these folks brave spouses.
Business owners, politicians, infamous bloggers, writers, raio personalities, blue-collar types. Black and white..
Many of the speakers, including a one-time liberal blogger proudly spoken of 2 children stationed in the Middle East.
Not to mention A LOT of 20, 30 somethings in attendance.
Your claim to be an ‘Independent’ today… puhleaaase. Your take on political matters has been strictly left, sometimes far left. I’ve read a good number of your scribblings.. stating otherwise is ridiculous.
“I resigned as a member of the Republican National Commitee in January 2007. I am a conservative, not a Republican.”
The Electoral College favors two major parties. Third Party movements are ultimately losers in national politics. We are therefore compelled to recapture the Republican Party. This can only be accomplished normally in the primaries. It is usually too late do anything effective in the general elections.
Obama and his “bi-partisan effort”; B.S.
This demonstrates THE bi-partisan DISAGREEMENT with his entire administration.
This new movement will step outside the two party system as soon as candidates which emerge from it start winning elections without the endorsement of either party. Any ideas on how to get that started? (Is it too early?)
#31 Most people agree with you.
How dare Moran accuse, of all people, Glenn Beck of ginning up outrage against Obama. Beck has done what NO ONE else has done namely expose these people for who they are. Something you have not done Rick. Beck was more responsible than anybody else for yesterday’s success.
Obama is a black liberationist which means that he has embaced Marxism and an anti-white racist philosophy for the last 20 years. THAT IS A FACT. Or am I ginning it up Rick?
We must get rid of our current crop of Republicans with law abiding ones that abide by the Constitution. we need to extend the offer to join us to like minded like minded Independents and Democrats (don’t hold your breath with that group). The Democrat Party and its hard core base are our enemies. That we can not change.
Our politicians and half of the Supreme Court act as if the Constitution doesn’t exists. Obama doesnt respect, believe in, nor abide by our Constitution. He loathes our country.
Let’s keep taking to the streets. We must stop these people losing is not an option.
The democrat and republican parties are both run by the same kind of people, Power Seekers. Power seekers sell out the nations interest for short term gains of personal power.
To paraphrase Lord Acton: Power corrupts ergo Term Limits.
I think it IS appropriate to call Obama a socialist. He is determined to turn this country into a European-style socialist nanny state, like France, a country with constant high unemployment, extremely high taxes, and terrible economic growth. Obama has nationalized the banks, AIG, the auto industry, and is spending trillions on government-funded bogus public works projects (can anyone say “ACORN”?). And now Obama wants to nationalize the Health industry as well, spending what the Congressional Budget Office said would cost almost $300 billion in deficits within the first 10 years of this plan (and that’s a conservative estimate; some estimates are as high as $1 trillion). So what are we to think? Obama’s holy grail is the socialized nanny state and his actions prove it. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it IS a duck. The Tea Party Movement is just showing the nation what should already be plain, which is that the president and the liberal democrats want a very different nation than the one we have right now.
The Tea Party movement could start a type of third party. Not an actual party per se, but a substantial voting block, connected by the media or the Internet, who will vote for politicians in either party who will support their political agenda. Third parties have never really done well in American History, although Teddy Roosevelt’s Bull Moos Party and Ross Perot’s Party came close to changing an election’s outcome. However, the Tea Parties could harness their substantial political influence to promote conservatives in both parties, whether Republicans or “Blue Dog” Democrats. It will be interesting to see where they go from here.
The 1st thing Sarah Palin did when she took office as Gov of Alaska was to breakup the republican “old boy” network that was corrupting the state. The Power Seekers of both parties hate her for her honesty
A tangential element that amplifies the significance of yesterday’s demonstration is the all too easily detected desire of the Old Media to ignore or minimize it.
Draw the moral, friends. If the shamelessly left-liberal Old Media resolutely try to ignore or belittle thee, thou art Doing It Right.
to call the tea parties a movement is a bit ingenuous. they are american people who want to tell the government they don’t like the direction the administration is taking THEIR country.
it is only the trolls and liberals who try to lable these protesters as something manufactured by the “vast right wing conspiracy”
this has been their (the left) tactic with all things opposed to their world view. to lable and dismiss. they are wrong. o-bum-a’s over-reach was a big mistake on their part but his (o-BUM-a’s) ego is so big he cannot see around it.
… the “pop conservatives” on talk radio, (Mr) Hannity, (Mr Limbaugh, (Doctor Levin and Doctor) Savage … have “ginned up outrage” against Obama and the Democrats (and are) “fear mongering” … It is unnecessary to brand Obama a communist or even a socialist ….
Yair.
Right.
Yet another yapper who doesn’t get it that Talk Radio’s Giants don’t “gin up” a thing. Every one of them has achieved one or another of the various degrees of “great salesman” and to a man every one but taps into his audience’s minds and gives voice to its ideas.
And then there’s Mr Beck.
As to whether the sail-eared simpleton’s a socialist and/or a communist, though, there can be no question that he is neither.
Ridgey-didge, Maties, the mobbed-up murtadd-Muslim mother’s boy is a Mussolini-modeled modified Marxist:
A full-blown bloody fascist!
The government should fear the people; not the other way around. And if fear drove us to the front of the Capitol en masse, that’s just fine. Otherwise we are moving toward a dictatorship by the government, for the government.
35. David S.
“Driven by greed, paranoia and racism, the TP movement clearly is a vehicle for GOP racism and lies be promoted without sullying the Republican brand.”
Do you think that assigning the characteristics of “greed, paranoia and racism” to people you have never met and never had a conversation with, will promote the concept of peace? Doesn’t your use of the word “peace” in the context of your statement above “sully” the concept of peace?
Mr. Moran,
Why did you find it necessary to trash Rush, Beck, Hannity, and yes even Savage?
You also seem to equate progressives from the early part of the last century with modern conservatives. Is this a krypto insinuation of fascism?
Finally, what are you doing writing on a conservative web site?
Rance
I hope the “grass roots” movement that we saw this weekend continues. We totally agree with that. We have many repub and demo friends that went and are going to ralies and are very disgusted with the current state of Obamanation.
The people out here at the rallies and the like are the people that have actual jobs and work 10/12 hour days and probably have a side job to go along with that. We are the people that actually pay taxes. We are the people that provide the millions of small business jobs. We are the people that are tired of being considered “irrelevant” . We receive no welfare checks, free stuff on someone else’s dime. Someof us have exhausted the unemployment benefits and are no longer counted as part of the Unemployment figures, which I think are much higher than the Obomaites want us to think.
… No corporation sent us to a rally, we went out of a frustration with being called names by Pelosi,cb, cheated out of money by the housing politics of Franks and Dodd,
the slipping in of outrageous IRS powergrab tax bills into the “healthplan” by Rangel, the giving of our money to banks that we will never see, then having banks refuse loans to many small businesses, AND,the Unions that profit daily on our backs. Crap!! we are tired of being used by stiff necked, arrogant politicians and we need and want a change!
No matter what these people have done, such as Franks, they keep their elected positions. this needs to be stopped!!
Give us a decent person to run for president..decent, not condescending, arrogant, never had a real job in the real world person…a down to earth person and we will stand with them!! Heck at this point I’d vote Harry the butcher over another obama..even McCain was a lousy choice. I want a real American to be our leader. Because McCain was a war hero (which we truly appreciate!!) does not make him good presidential material.
We are very pleased that at least one TV reporter/commentator…has the balls to stand up and question and bring “facts” to life. Yes, I said it…”checkable” FACTS…
.Yeah BECK!!! He’d better watch his/families back, because i do believe he has America’s eyes now turned to the administration and the amd does not like it…the adm will do all they can to discredit this man, even though he presents facts, checkable facts,.. unlike obama’s background….
Obama will make the mistake of dismissing the rallies as “just kids playing kid games”…he plays at campaigning as Rome burns, he’s oblivious..
…words just words… This adm needs to be called on the Black Panther b.s. too. disgusting that they can get away with this.
One more thing. I would like to see a third party person emerge. However, this would give the liberals a clear field as it would break up the repub vote. People that voted color should be drawn and quartered and would probably vote dem again. We need a strong main party person. Honestly I have no one in mind, they’re all dorks at this point.
David at 38,
Thanks for responding. You are exactly correct. A third party would have to cause the death of the GOP to be effective. It would have to supplant the existing Republican party. If it is only a third party the Dems will win as they did under Clinton.
I am not comfortable at all with Republicans right now. Too many McCains, Grahams and Snowes. Too many useful idiots and fellow travelers.
I suspect your right, we are going to have to take the party back and recast it in our immage. However, at this time I will not rejoin the GOP or give it any money. I have been approached by the party repeatedly for cash. I contribute funds only to conservative candidates themselves and to think tanks that support capitalism, free enterprise, liberty and freedom. The GOP may siphon cash from candidates, but it no longer gets any thing from me directly.
Thanks again for your response David.
“Getting caught up trying to guess the number of attendees at Saturday’s protests (as I and many others are doing today and will continue to do) is irrelevant.”
Of course it is, because the wild hyperbole of yesterday . . . “2 million!” . . . is obviously wrong. Matt Kibbe of Freedonmworks, the corporate sponsor of the march and organizer of the tepid toadies, said on stage at the rally that ABC was reporting a crowd of 1 million to 1.5 million were in attendance. This from ABC, “At no time did ABC News or its affiliates report a number anywhere near as large (as Kibbe reported). ABCNews.com reported an approximate figure of 60,000 to 70,000 protesters. attributed to the Washington DC Fire Department.” No, it’s not the biggest political rally in history. Not as big as the Denver Obama crowd. It’s not even as big as Obama’s rally in Portland. And how many of those people in DC were non-Whites? Look at the photos. It’s the RNC all over again. And this is the fact no spin can hide.
So now that the Malkenites of the world have been proven yet again to have no connection to reality, the numbers are “irrelevant” just like calling the president a liar is good, shouting down speakers is your patriotic duty. reconciliation is evil, fillibusters are noble . . . everything you decried is now fine. You have no principles. You have no conviction. You have no love for this country. You are simply children throwing a tantrum because you can’t have that fourth hot dog. And we will continue to discipline you as we see fit. Yes we can. Yes we will. Yes we are.
In the meantime, I suggest you start forming that third party. But who to lead it? I hear Orly Taitz is available.
The real Problem is getting established Republicans to Tap into this groundswell. Example# 1
http://www.bloggybayou.com/2009/09/george-lemieux-charlie-crist-and-worlds.html
Rick, as usual you are wide the mark, other than this is a grassroots conservative movement. For every one attendee in Washington this past Saturday, there were at least 20 at home. I’m 65, I have not protested since the ’60s when I marched for equal rights for blacks. But I attend every event in my state. This is a true revolt! We see Kings and princes and princesses in office with their feet on our necks! The government has become so-o-o-o intrusive in our lives, we have had enough! We are Democrats, Independents, Republicans and Libertarians but we are tools of no party. All will feel our wrath at the ballot box and it will be sweeping! DON’T TREAD ON ME!
one more thing. there are several of us that post together. We all agree that Rome is burning and Obama is fiddlin’…a friend said she would rather not vote than vote for a dem. I disagree with this. It divides us as a nation.
We live in a red state, not even a tiny trace of blue. We will vote conservative in general.
Start campaigning against whomever holds the office in your state now if they are pro=Obama. It will be interesting to see who votes for the healthplan and how they will explain it all to America
The internet is a saving grace for America and the corrupt politics of Washington to be exposed.
“And the moment it is co-opted by the Republicans, I predict a lot of steam will go out of it.”
Rick, this proves you’ve already missed the boat. The Republican Party is going to be co-opted by we the people because we know that it’s a two party system. That leaves you, Frumm, George Will, and a lot of other RINOs without a party, not us.
The Republican Party was started to combat the party of slavery and nobility, and if it hadn’t been co-opted by the “idle and social” set we’d have been done with the elitist crowd a century ago. Instead, you and yours are just fine with losing freedoms, grinding average folks down, and anything else that happens, as long as you’re part of the approved nobility. Republican control of congress settled into more of the same old thing without missing a beat. That proved that the Republican Party needs to shed those who now waddle around pontificating on what the great unwashed masses need, not those who will get in the streets or call the Liar in Chief a Liar to his face.
Your crowd didn’t lead when you were the majority, you won’t follow a true conservative, that means the only thing left for you is to get out of the way because if you don’t you WILL be run over.
“It is unnecessary to brand Obama a “communist” or even a “socialist” to realize that his policies spell disaster for individual liberty and the free market economy.”
But to the extent a label, such as Palin’s “death panels,” provides intellectual and emotional clarity, it can be very useful. I think it’s more accurate to say Obama is a progressive or corporatist or social democrat, but those terms are less familiar to the broad public, so they reach for the less accurate, but emotionally clarifying “socialist.” It focuses the protest in a way that no amount of arguing over the details of policy can ever do.
Now and Then:
I don’t think the numbers are irrelevant at all. That was a big protest. By people who never do that sort of thing. It matters.
All day yesterday I kept reading on the “right wing blogs” that the numbers were being elevated in the press, most likely to debunk the numbers after the fact and minimize the impact.
Now that we’re seeing exactly that play out, I still don’t see how the numbers are irrelevant. That was a huge protest. The pictures tell the story.
First paragraph, and Rick’s off on one of his bogus meta-points as usual. Hey Rick, maybe it’s because people on the right used to have jobs, and feel like idiots running around in paper mache heads?
I say “used to”, because the job losses over the past year were all in the private sector, and the government is hiring. In an ironic reversal of historical patterns, it’s now the conservatives who are out of work, and the liberals are all too busy playing solitaire and trolling on blogs at their government jobs to protest.
I’m not prepared to abandon the Republican party just yet, though I did register as an independent in the last election. Let us instead put the GOP on notice: stand on principle or prepare yourselves for a grassroots challenge during the primaries. A third party will only dissipate conservative strength. The Tea Party movement proves the wisdom of our founding documents. Congress was never designed to provide lifetime employment for career politicians. But we must first take back the Republican party, and only then will we have a chance to take back the congress. We don’t need to recreate the wheel, people!
2. Francis W. Porretto, bingo. Conservatism, as we have known it, is culturally comatose, and on life support. This was a moment of spontaneous libertarian identification. We’re now headed for the ideological battle of Armageddon. It’s statism v.s. liberty. Both sides are lining their armies up under the castle of Megiddo. The millipedes are silently watching. May the better idea win.
Keep fighting. We’re going to defeat these people.
Let’s stop them on their attempt to takeover our healthcare system, raising our cost for gas, gasoline and eletricity, insane immigration everything.
#53 states 60-70,000 people. Yeah right. The D.C. police said 1.2 million. Aerial photos will give us a good count soon.
Let’s stop this healthcare bill for now. If they pass it let’s get our state governments to refuse to enforce it. Its unconstitutional, its illegal.
Tell Obama and his Party and the RINO’s to shove it up their rear ends. They’re a bunch of lawless tyrants.
Wow, what a lot of condescension to grassroots conservatism on display here. Mr. Moran at once praises the conservative people for taking to the streets to make themselves heard. At the same time he denigrates them for listening to agitators of “pop conservatism” (who BTW provided the info & impetus to get such protests going) and dismissing the chances of real progress following because the Republicans will be too weak & inept to capitalize on events. No, Mr. Moran, CONSERVATIVE Republicans will be able to use the energy of the protests to their advantage. A few Libertarians may benefit as well, although I am unsure of their chances at this time. Certainly the Democrats will NOT benefit, since the protests are being directed first and foremost at the Democrats, whose actions since 2006 have been the source of the popular discontent demonstrated yesterday.
50. rance, Has anyone ever seen Rick Moran and Charles Johnson in the same place at the same time? Inquiring minds…
These Tea Parties are also showing a switch in the mode of political activity. The MSM, which has long been the zone of the left, is becoming irrelevant. People are using grassroots or direct electronic communication – email, twitter, Internet, Utube etc; they aren’t beholden to the MSM for information or communication.
While this comment might veer close to “technological determinism” (which is pretty much my preferred form of historiography), I will say that I agree that current technological advances favor those whose political leanings are toward decentalized, localized decision-making, rather than the top-down, centralized decision-making so beloved by the Left. The centralizing Left, when in power, gets horrible practical results, because of the nature of information dispersal among the population and the inadequacy of any centralized information-gathering and analysis apparatus, and keeping the people from knowing of those results when all of these alternative channels of information exist, is more and more difficult.
“What makes today’s massive turnout around the country so significant is that it is the first truly conservative mass movement in American history.”
I question that assertion. Seems to me the Abolitionist Movement of the 19th century for ending slavery would qualify as the first classical liberal (today conservative) mass movement. It even stimulated the creation of the future Republican Party. Surely a movement predicated on ending slavery and preserving the union qualifies as conservative? The Civil War with its mass casualties was the outcome, ironically fought by troops who were “racist,” at least by today’s standards. I suppose the American Indian Wars against preliterate stone age Eurasian migrants might qualify also, but the Indians have been idealized as “noble savages” today.
#6: “One of these days you won’t be able to tell Reds & Blues.”
Vivo, I would say looking at many Republican (“Red”) politicians, that day has already come, especially in my home state of New Jersey, arguably one of the most, if not THE most, politically corrupt (on both sides) in the country.
For those who may doubt what I say, I refer you to the book by journalists Bob Ingle and Sandy McClure, “The Soprano State”.
One key to udnerstanding what is happening here is that there is no more “mainstream”–that died with the Cold War consensus and the eclipse of the MSM gatekeepers–and the Left’s insane attacks on Bush finished the job. There is no one with the authority to say “this person/idea is crazy and should be shunned”. This is all to the good, especially since plenty of people with destructive and naive ideas, like Paul and maybe Beck, also perform great services–20 years ago they could have been pushed to the margins of the scene and never heard from. Now, that’s impossible. But that just means that we need to distinguish between genuinely new and productive ideas and insights and repulsive ones–to take the most obvious example, “trutherism.” Trutherism is, as Krauthammer argued, not just obviously wrong (you have to be an imbecile to believe it) but it is vicious, pathological and really dangerous politically as well. So, what do we do with someone with an idea to be taken seriously, however radical (like abolishing the Fed, which is definitely worth discussing), but who is also a truther? There are no rules here–we are going to have to figure it out for ourselves. (This, by the way, is what is driving Charles Johnson mad–he thinks there must be rules telling us whom to excommunicate or purge, and is furious at finding out that nobody is following the rules he thinks are set in stone)
25. Samizdat: “There are tens of millions of us, it’s ridiculous we don’t have a party.”
It may seem ridiculous, but there are reasons for that, the major one being how our 2-party system is so heavily supported by those with deep pockets. It’s virtually impossible to gin up enough support for a third party in a country where the big-money holders refuse to support anything else but the major two. Research most any large company or other big-money resource, and you will see varying patterns whereby the Dems and Pubs get all their support. I am not sure just how, with the current situation, a third party could ever emerge. We will have to rely on activist movements such as these being displayed by the tea party crowd to serve as a means for our voices to be heard. The key is tenacity.
53.it is hard to take you seriously while you’re standing in a puddle of your own urine
calm down-let go of the scissers..find your’safe place’.no one want’s to hurt you,so stop crying,it is nothing personal….you’re just unable to run the country,that’s all.
65. Calvin
Great question!
Third party candidates guarantee that the “wrong” party will win. The only effective means to changing the government is to move your party from within. Conservative Republicans need to take succor from the these protests and retake the party. Conservative Democrats should do the same in their party.
The ultimate solution to our governmental disconnect from those governed is term limits. Incumbency has changed Congress into a self serving organization dedicated to it’s own members and not the people who elected them in the first place. Seniority in the House or Senate leads to greater and greater power. Earmarks are the bakshish used by legislators to get re-elected. No one should spend an entire adult lifetime as a Senator or Congressman.
Sometimes I don’t get you Mr. Moran. On the one hand you say Obama’s policies are “horrible” and you describe them as disasters for individual liberty and the free market, but Beck, Rush, Hannity, etal are “fear-mongering” for calling a duck a duck? You talk out of both sides of your mouth. Speaking plain English about radical leftists and calling them what they really are as Beck, Rush, Hannity, etal are doing is not “fear-mongering”. It may be politically incorrect, but it’s still the truth.
2. Francis W. Porretto:
We shall see.
——————–
Not only the response Washington makes to our communication, but our response to their response. Everywhere I read, every conservative pundit or analyst says, “Some watered-down thing will pass, which will still be destructive and irreversible.”
This advance surrender appalls me. I say, prepare now for REPEAL. Support no candidate in 2010 unless they vow to cast a vote to repeal any bill that robs us citizens of our treasure or liberty to ANY extent. Giving the schoolyard bully 25% of your lunch money instead of all of it is not a compromise; it’s a surrender.
Millions in D.C. and around the country!
I disagree with one important element of the article. This is a grassroots uprising and the size of it is far larger than you might expect. I was an independent, a conservative independent yes, but an independent. I have voted for Democrats in the past. BUT, NEVER AGAIN.
I can tell you that there are far more people who wanted to go to the Tea Parties than actually went. I would not be surprised if it wasn’t 20 times as many who wanted to go as made it and the nimber of people who agree is even larger.
The American people do not oppose health care reform, but they do oppose the current proposals that would very likely damage the health care that they currently receive, may result in businesses getting out of providing health insurance, and force people into the government controlled option. The Democrats do not want to hear it and are doing everything they can to vilify those who speak out against it. This is a recipe for disaster to the Democrats. he irony is that the Democrats are, i believe, committing political suicide. Many physicians are considering retiring if this bill passes as written. Many hospitals will go out of business as it is stryctured, and the care of the American people will go down the toilet.
The backlash against the Democratic party could be so severe that the Democratic party will be forced to fold, rename itself, and redefine itself into some other party. Hopefully it will not result inn revolution, which would likely hurt us all. You never know what will result.
If the Democratic party was interested in doing what is in the interest of the people they are supposed to be serving they’d change tactics: e.g. “We have heard the American People, and although we may not agree with what we are hearing, we will scrap the current Bill and re-approach it in a bipartisan manner in the hopes of coming to a solution that the American People can live with that achieves the goals of saving money, providing healthcare to those who do not have access to it, and inproving health care for everyone.” Hopefully it will include some form of Medical malpractice reform, even if it is as simple as loser pays, so as to get rid of frivolous law suits. The longer the democrats wait for a chnage in their current tactic the more difficult it will become.
If the Democrats decide to go it alone, can’t get the requisite 60 votes in the Senate and try to go to Reconciliation, it will truly destroy our government structure and possibly our society. The Constitution is not an inconvenient document that can be circumvented. It is what has defined us as a unique, productive, and free society.
71. frank grimes:
“It is hard to take you seriously while you’re standing in a puddle of your own urine”
Congratulations, Frank , you’ve managed to sidestep the right wing predilection for insult via scat. I consider urine a step in the right direction.
Now, put down the bottle, run the sleep out of your eyes, turn off your talk radio, open your mind to the truth. Nno one wants to kill grandma, you just can’t tell what’s real and what’s not. You ran our country and economy into the ground. Now it’s time to fix it. We’ll take care of that for you. in the meantime, I await your offer to remove yourself from the Medicare program, you know, in the interest of liberty, freedom and the Constitution.
David S: You are in complete denial. You will not be able to keep it up. What then? The day will come when you have to face the truth, not just about te traitors and crooks who you have hitched your fate too, but to the vileness in your character that allowed yourself to be taken in by such nonsense. You are just lying to yourself nd slandering decent people in the process. Of course it is grass roots movement. It is perhaps the only one out there at the moment. You are merely projecting the political reality of the Left on the TP people.
Shame on you. Learn to think fro yourself before it is too late for you.
NOw and then: Hint ABC is lying, get a clue. The DC Park dept puts it at 1.25 million
60,000 would not fill up the mall. Stop lying. Stop confusing reality with your attempts to deny it. It is you that have departed from reality.
At the very least it was an order of magnitude over the numbers ABC gave. You can make no rational case for ABC numbers.
Get out of denial and face the truth.
Now, put down the bottle, run the sleep out of your eyes,
Well, we *have* been asleep for a long time. And now we’re waking up.
turn off your talk radio,
Unless it comes from genuine Now-and-Then-approved™ sources.
open your mind to the truth.
Translation: “agree with me.”
Nno one wants to kill grandma, you just can’t tell what’s real and what’s not.
As with so many programs created for us by our betters, what they WANT to happen and what ACTUALLY happens are two entirely different things. One would think that after so many failures the left would understand that.
You ran our country and economy into the ground.
Why’d you do that, Frank?
By the way, NaT, who was in charge of congress for the last two years of the Bush administration? Who voted “yes” for every bloated governmental spending program he created?
BOTH parties are responsible for this mess.
Now it’s time to fix it.
Heck of a job you’re doin’.
We’ll take care of that for you.
NaT must have confused “destroying the economy for years” for “taking care of that for you.”
in the meantime, I await your offer to remove yourself from the Medicare program,
I can’t speak for Frank, but if I could remove myself I’d do it in a heartbeat, provided I didn’t have to pay into it anymore.
you know, in the interest of liberty, freedom and the Constitution.
Don’t use words you don’t understand.
The funniest thing about you people wetting yourselves over the turn out is how easily you dismissed anti-war demonstrations of three or four times the size. I believe your hero, GW Bush called them “focus groups”:
Pres. BUSH: First of all, you know, size of protests–it’s like deciding, `Well, I’m going to decide policy based upon a focus group.’ The role of a leader is to decide policy based upon, in this case, the security of the people.
I’m sure you people were up in arms when the President so famously dismissed the power or significance of direct action by hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people. Oh, but when its Republicans it matters. Right.
http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/transcripts/2003/feb/030218.gonyea.html
“78. Now and Then:
71. frank grimes:
“It is hard to take you seriously while you’re standing in a puddle of your own urine”
Congratulations, Frank , you’ve managed to sidestep the right wing predilection for insult via scat. I consider urine a step in the right direction.
Now, put down the bottle, run the sleep out of your eyes, turn off your talk radio, open your mind to the truth. Nno one wants to kill grandma, you just can’t tell what’s real and what’s not. You ran our country and economy into the ground. Now it’s time to fix it. We’ll take care of that for you. in the meantime, I await your offer to remove yourself from the Medicare program, you know, in the interest of liberty, freedom and the Constitution.
Sep 13, 2009 – 10:58 am”
What powerful refutations remain to the Leftists here! I think they are starting to transport themselves, in their imagination, back to election night, when hope was green and change was in the air. What bliss it was to be alive in those halcyon days! Why do all these big meanies want to ruin it all?
According to Hotair.com, President Obama says the national dialogue on health-care is “coarsening”:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/13/obama-national-dialogue-coarsening/
I see Obama got out of his bubble long enough to run back in & hide. His comment is ridiculous in the sense that the dialogue has been coarsening since Obama & the other Democrats have been trying to pass their Socialist Health-Care nightmares as early as Summer. President Obama needs to let his health care universal nightmare go. But he won’t. Like Ahab, he will go down in his pursuit for the great white whale.
I’m sure you people were up in arms when the President so famously dismissed the power or significance of direct action by hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people.
Actually, I gained a new perspective on the usefulness of the “united” part of the “United States” from watching the passion the idiots on the Left threw into their protests during the Bush Administration. It made me realize that there’s no point in insisting upon there being only one country in the space currently occupied by the US. I realized then that this country should split into two countries, so that you could foul up your own and let those of us still living in the real world get some peace from your stupid ideology. A country populated by just morons like you would die out in a couple of generations, tops. My descendants would just walk right across the border and take it back over.
I realized then that this country should split into two countries, so that you could foul up your own and let those of us still living in the real world get some peace from your stupid ideology. A country populated by just morons like you would die out in a couple of generations, tops. My descendants would just walk right across the border and take it back over.
Oh yes, because countries like Japan, Germany and France are doing so piss poorly compared to us right now. And history shows, the more wars a nation engages in THE MORE STABLE IT BECOMES! Yes, with you people at the helm we ought to reach the nadir of stability–that is absolute entropy–within a generation. I do agree with you, however, that you people should go to your own countries. Its just hard disengaging ourselves from the national welfare state that supports you teat-suckling hillbillies in the jobless and useless netherworlds of our country. We’re working on it though–have fun supporting yourself on wheat and milk.
78.wrong on all counts:i do not drink booze,i am an ‘eary bird’…don’t listen to AM radio,have over the last twelve years ADDED tens of thousands of dollars in tax revenue to the economy-per year(income,sales and property)….employed dozens….and i DO want to kill grandma.
try again.
Ginned up? How else would the average American even know about these policies that ARE ‘communist’ and ‘socialist’ in a nature and deed if NOT for the Hannity’s, Beck’s and other good Americans bringing the reality of the situation into our living rooms? Fanning the flames of patriotism should be applauded, and yes, estimating the numbers is a GOOD thing, why? It is much easier to say, “Prez O had 15,000 people in a so numbered statium cheering for him”, than to say, “a whole buncha people were in the street”. Doen’t quite have the same punch. Doesn’t paint the same picture of solidity and solidarity, does it? Of course, we who do not listen to the MSM, but do listen to the small loud voices of reason KNOW that the majority of those seat fillers in that stadium the Big O preached at were most likely PAID to be there (thank you Steven Crowder for that exposed on their ‘grassroots’ efforts at $30,000 a year)…
What I want to see is a photograph from say a high rise building, or even an overpass showing the true numbers of those in the street in DC waving their flags and carrying their signs. In my small town we had a couple dozen people along two streets, I can only imagine how many were in the ‘big cities’, and only the true patriots on the right who are there to ‘gin up’ the masses will even begin to tell us the truth!
A noteworthy thing it is that posts such as #78 so nicely point to the obvious hypocrisy continually practiced by the left. Example, the deficit was a terrible thing while Bush & Co. were in charge but no batting of an eye to the gargantuan level of spending by the current administration: “You ran our country and economy into the ground.” That is exactly what the current administration is doing on purpose.
@BLACKWATER: What is it about the illegal Federal Reserve and “END THE FEDERAL RESERVE” movment that has you worried?
Did you know that EVERY Republican in Congress has signed on to HR 1207 to audit the fed?
Or do you like your slavery to the private banks for whom Obama is working?
The Federal Reserve is not allowed in the Constitution. Only Congress shall create and print money. They’ve been destroying our country since the Fed Reserve Act of 1913 was passed in the dark of night.
I think you are not up to speed on what is ‘nutty’ right wing and what is accepted as the PROBLEM.
The Federal Reserve, controller of the money, is the place to start cleaning out the corruption. They are the ones who cause all the money crises.
OH and have you seen the time lapse photo of people walking along the 8-lane, 1-mile road to the Capitol? There were thousands more who were stuck on the highway and could not get in as well.
I think 1.5M is a fair number.
By the way, as a major organizer, I can tell you that no group from DC or GOP has anything to do with my state tea party group. I don’t get so much as one email from them. We get no funding, no directives.
The GOP only wishes it could be this organized. We are not organized — there is truly a grassroots movement of people who see what is seriously wrong and are motivated to come out on their own.
You are right about not needing any ginning up by the reporters on TV. However, this is called JOURNALISM. If Beck et al were not reporting this, I suppose we would still have the internet, which is why Jay Rockefeller wants it shut down.
Finally, calling us “old white or crackers” is purely racist and discriminatory. What has white got to do with it if not?
I know what the mention of old means though.
I guess a lot of older people know that Medicare will be raided to fund health care for illegals and others, and treatment for them, will be rationed. Comments like these from the left prove to us don’t they, that the leftist elite (especially if you read the philosophy of Sunstein and Holdrens et al) value our lives less and less… and that’s what is fearful to these folks.
AND RIGHTLY SO.
Also, I agree with Sassenach: #11 Gary — right on! The Republican party isn’t going to co-opt us, we’re going to co-opt THEM to OUR truly conservative purposes.
Third parties don’t work.
We will make the GOP what it is supposed to be.
It will translate to votes for the GOP but ONLY if they don’t run people like Newt Gingrich or Mitt Romney.
They are tired old party hacks.
We want new blood like Joe Wilson, Mike Pence, Jim DeMint, Ron Paul, etc.
Sarah Palin likes to tell the truth, and that is to be admired too.
I’d like to see a Ron Paul/Sarah Palin ticket!
don’t feed the trolls ..watch the video below …well worth the ten minutes.
it outlines why the trolls cannot understand reality. they are a lost group.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIFcnctnHsE&feature=related
I actually don’t want to kill your grandma today. I want to go into the past and kill her before she had your parents, there by nullifying your generation’s dead idiot’s hand on the trajectory of our nation. One can dream, at least of such sweet grandma murder, but that is only a fantasy. The trouble is you people have a hard time distinguishing fantasy from reality.
69. adam, indeed. You nailed it.
53. Now and Then.
“And we will continue to discipline you as we see fit. Yes we can. Yes we will. Yes we are.”
Are you serious?
“And how many of those people in DC were non-Whites?”
Are you in favor of restoring 3/5 clause to the Constitution, where whites only count 3/5 of a non-white?
In your own words, define non-white.
here is time-lapsed footage of the event:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoPud1TeubM&feature=player_embedded
sixty to seventy thousand?
yeah…..right.
Er, vivo is ignoring the fact that France and Germany, which have climbed out of recession, now have leaders who are more conservative than the current president of the US. Japan’s recession lasted 10 full years.
Ironically, Europe is turning toward fiscal conservativism and away from socialism at a time when the idiot leftists here are dragging us into the abyss. The Labour Party in the UK has ruined the economy there and all predictions are that they will get the boot next year.
God, it’s always funny when moho wee wees himself. He’s such an entertaining guy! By the time the 2010 elections roll around, he’ll be certifiable.
Waiting until November, 2010 will be a betrayal of the best of the Tea Party
phenomenon. Declare another government, and let the people decide. Who wants to line up with those who pay more than lip service to government living within its means, or with those who talk the talk, but walk a very different walk.
93:your side controls the WHOLE goverment,why are you still so angry?
you should take a deep breath and enjoy the moment,because it won’t last long.
93. Moho
Nice.
When you scratch the surface of the leftist you find bottomless depths of hatred and venom.
I hope David S. and all the other liberals go on characterizing those who marched on 9/12 as racists. It will drive more and more decent people to vote against his thugocracy in 2010 and beyond.
The irony… yesterday as the masses marched on DC, I and thousands of tax payers were stuck circling above Minneapolis on hold for 40 minutes while Airforce 1 shut down the airport to deliver Obama to his Health Care propaganda rally. 1/4 of my flight missed their connections… then upon making my own connection an hour later, we taxied out, and once again, the entire airport was shut down while Obama jetted off after his health care rally. Idling for an hour on the taxiway, I was running the numbers, and while the emperor shut down perhaps 10,000 tax payers Saturday’s travels at a cost of 10′s of millions of dollars in man hours, fuel and airline re-booking costs, he was jetting about in our plane, spending our taxes promoting an expansion in government that over 1M were protesting in DC… while he slinked off to address 15K people in MN rather than face the music in DC. It was a moment of irony, clarity and stark contrast, as this man who has never had a real job in his life, burned through our tax dollars while we citizens stepped aside in servitude. The man beside me wondered why he could not land at the military base just miles away and safe all us citizens these hassles. Indeed, “enough is enough”.
It was more than tens of thousands yesterday in Washington D.C. for the 9/12 Project Tea Party march and rally.
Joe from Milwaukee Wisconsin, Sarah from Grand Rapids Michigan, John from Austin Texas, Jan and Michael from Syracuse New York State, the McCafferty family from Palm Beach Florida and hundreds of thousands of people from all over America had one thing in common on Saturday 9/12; they came to their nation’s capital to peacefully protest the…
http://www.examiner.com/x-16143-Richmond-Republican-Examiner~y2009m9d13-The-912-Project-Tea-Projec5t-March-on-Washington-Part-One-with-slideshow
I know, I posted this yesterday evening already, but it is MY health-care for the trolls:
POWER TO THE PEOPLE !
TIMES ARE A’CHANGING !
WE SHALL OVERCOME !
Thank you for the opportunity to comment
PS Trolls, get a pain killer.
who the hell cares if the people at the rallies were NON WHITE or LILY WHITE!!!!???
What the crap does that have to do with anything????
What??~~ we gotta have an equal opportunity rally? It’s the equal opportunity b.s. that has us by the short hairs now~!~~~~~
Man, you can’t row your side of the boat?? THEN GET OUT!!!
I’m sick of the PC in this country!!! If you’re black, brown, red, green and you want to pull your share of the weight…welcome aboard!! otherwise,
‘GET OUTTA MY WAY’
There are a bunch of pantywaists on here that all they want to do is argue, cut down the other guys with twisted and sometimes irrelevant “factoids”, degrade, call names, pukey a$$ trash that they are probably never held a job and never had to pay a bill.
They probably live in some trashy NE neighborhood waitin’ for the man to deliver the check..or havin’ mama sell the stuff out the side winda’.. Girlie men that they are. No relevant constructive thoughts, just pourin’ out trash to hear the keys click. They can’t go on a liberal blog, they would be laughed off.
There are a couple that are relatively articulate, not in facts, but speech..so they’re probably the “can’t do” and they teach at your local university that you pay dearly for your kids to go to.
And the rest of you just keep responding giving them fodder to roll around in. There is NO reasoning with them. They “don’t care” what you have to say..If you said “black was white” they’d respond with “no..white is green”…”
If disliking what Obama and his ilk are up to and saying something about it is racist..then count me as a racists!! The man is a loser. He would be a loser if he was Mexican, Asian, or Snow White..
Did anyone notice the NYT article which said the Tea Party movement was racist?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/opinion/13ehrenreich.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=tea%20party%209-12&st=Search
These folks only have one answer for everything.
Folks,
don’t get angry with the trolls, with the media, and with the Mouth of Sauron (Gibbs, I believe):
the more insults and lies they throw at America, the stronger America will become.
They don’t understand this, because they believed any lie they met and they want to be liked: they don’t understand rational people and independent people.
Let them spit their poison, it will make us stronger.
Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
Exactly what is it that the teabaggers are protesting?
Is it that Obama cut taxes for 95% of us?
Every is laughing at you fools.
Evil Otto. Yeah. But when you scratch the surface of a teabagger, it smells like rotten tomatoes.
Although its not easy to articulate or put onto a sign, I believe the real motivation for the “tea parties” is the uneasy sense of America losing its soul. Many of us older folks grew up in a different era where concepts like respect, decorum, the rule of law, Judeo-Christian prinicples, and compassion and charity were givens. One didn’t really think about these ideas, Americans, in large part, just lived them. That’s not to say we were perfect, far from it, but the strength of our culture and country was the ability to take a hard look at ourselves and improve things. In my lifetime probably the greatest step our culture took was to acknowledge that Dr. King was right and from that came the civil rights legislation.
But then, my generation, the Age of Aquarius (and narcissism) came roaring onto the cultural scene. After 40+ years of this navel gazing and new age thinking our culture is being torn apart by those who benefited most from it. I will leave the underlying psychology to others, but those phony revolutionaries now run the media, our universities, our teachers’ unions, and our courts. And, some argue, control our political system. I wouldn’t disagree.
That’s why people are angry – our culture is under attack and people are not just fed up, but a bit scared as well, because the threat of losing our American soul is real. The left has been priming for this moment ever since Bill Ayers started planting bombs and others embraced the cold-blooded murderer Che Guevara as their revolutionary icon.
So, the ramparts are being manned and they should be. Health care, taxes, government size, etc are all examples of the major battles ahead, but they don’t define the war. The war is about the further destruction of America’s exceptionalism versus restoring, over time, our soul. That’s what, I believe, people are fighting for.
98. Donna V.,
All wee wee’d up, and nowhere to go…
110. Moho.
“Evil Otto. Yeah. But when you scratch the surface of a teabagger, it smells like rotten tomatoes.”
What do you get when you scratch the surface of a Moho?
I’m not so sure about what you guys tell me about the DC tea party. Did it really take place? I’m from Africa and all we get here is CNN news casts and tonight CNN had a 5 minute insert about the Iraqi “Joe Wilson” (the shoe man) getting released from jail. Your tea party was only mentioned in passing – no footage.
“That’s what, I believe, people are fighting for.”
gordo
So the Taxed Enough Already part is no longer once the idiot teabaggers realized Obama cut taxes for 95% us?
And the death panels? Also gone? Socialized medicine? Gone too? Birth certificate? Secret Muslim? Palling around with terrorists? Government takeover of health care?
All fallen by the way side?
I guess it’s time to turn back to the happy days segregation, the Vietnam War, and the communists witch hunts. Is that what you’re saying?
“Exactly what is it that the teabaggers are protesting?”
I believe that the protests are against the ever increasing growth of government, especially at the federal level.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_20th_century_chart.html
As the chart shows we’re about 40% of the way to being a fully socialist nation…and that’s a real bad thing.
Let’s see here…
1). Most minority ethnicities vote Democrat. √
2). White people are the majority ‘race’ in the USA. √
3). Conservatives are made up predominantly of white people. √
So, yeah, of course mostly white people showed up yesterday. AND?
If whites made up the same percentage of the US population as blacks or browns then maybe the Trolly McTrollersons who vomit their drivel here would have a point but whites don’t so the baiters should STFU and go back to sculpting 0bama’s visage out of a giant block of gubn’t cheese.
@90
I don’t have a problem with bringing more trancparency and oversight to the Federal Reserve. But abolishing it all together is absurd. As is abolishing the majority of our federal institutions such as the CIA, The Department of Education, The Department of Homeland Security, etc, such as Ron Paul and other far right wing libertarians support. Don’t get me wrong, I totally support 110% shrinking the size of the federal budget, extending basic freedoms more thoroughly, dramatically cutting taxes, respecting the Constitution, etc, but be practical about it. You’re going to chase moderates like me away with your far left sounding anti-American and anti-U.S. military “empire” rhetoric and your extreme domestic libertarian policies.
Oh yes, because countries like Japan, Germany and France are doing so piss poorly compared to us right now.
Demographically, those countries will not exist for another century. Who cares how they are doing now? An aristocrat spending his inheritance like water can live a pretty nice lifestyle, for a while. I know that there is a “Japan”, “Germany” and “France” that exists in the liberal mind and has achieved some sort of lefty nirvana, but take a look at the forward trends and tell me any of those countries have anything to offer a country that wants to be around for a while. You can’t, because they don’t. If you could think ahead more than to your own useless life-span, you’d realize that.
Its just hard disengaging ourselves from the national welfare state that supports you teat-suckling hillbillies in the jobless and useless netherworlds of our country.
I actually live in a major metropolis. And, trust me, it’s MY tax dollars and the dollars of my fellow b-school buddies supporting any transfer payments from my blue state to the red states, not you and your “community organizer” and “adjunct professor of American Studies” buddies making $30K/year, so you can just stop patting yourself on the back for that, too.
I do agree with you, however, that you people should go to your own countries.
The only smart things you’ve ever said. Good, let’s start divvying sh*t up. Obama should pull a reverse Abe Lincoln and make this his main agenda item. The less my future is in any way linked to yours and people who think like you, the happier I am.
“109. jharp:
Exactly what is it that the teabaggers are protesting?
Is it that Obama cut taxes for 95% of us?
Every is laughing at you fools.
Sep 13, 2009 – 1:13 pm
110. Moho:
Evil Otto. Yeah. But when you scratch the surface of a teabagger, it smells like rotten tomatoes.
Sep 13, 2009 – 1:23 pm”
The trolls sound like stereotypical parents of 60s rebels, lost in the “new world” with nothing but their cliches to fall back upon. “What are you complaining about, tax cuts for 95%…” sounds exactly like the patriarchal buffoon of so many movies made in the 60s and 70s–”how dare you say that, after all I’ve done for you…” And the crude insults are no different than calling anti-Vietnam war protesters a bunch of “smelly hippies.” No, I’m not endorsing these stereotypes of the “reactionaries” of the 60s, just pointing out how the Left has morphed into the mold of those they ascended to cultural centrality by demonizing. This is all very encouraging–the Left fantasized a progressive renaissance following their electoral victories; what we see instead is the last gasp of a decadent pseudo-aristocracy. This doesn’t mean we’re out of danger–decadent aristocracies can do a lot of damage before they exit, and no clear path out of the destruction caused by this massive power grab is visible. But if you look at the meagerness of what the trolls have been able to muster over the last couple of days (warning us that, due to demographics, we’ll be in big trouble by 2050, praying for economic recovery in the next few months, trying to minimize the #s in C.C., etc.), we can see how this single, still preliminary pushback by Americans has exposed the Left in all its rigor mortis.
As Sherab Zangpo likes to say, thank you for the opportunity to comment.
Dear Rick:
This truly American movement has nothing to do with any corporation or any of the major political parties except the accidental beneficiaries who happen to be in the right place at the right time providing they don’t do or say anything to screw up their lucky day. There are too many to name here. If you want to be honest you must admit that most corporations and Republicans are way too eager to support the current Democratic administration in hopes of making deals and getting lots of pork money. (Read corrupt) Of course Republicans now know that they cannot side with the administration for it is political suicide, some Democrats are also realizing this as well. Very few elected politicians serving the nation are opposed to growing government because growing government allows them to continue parasitic careers long after leaving elected office.
What this movement is about is the restoration of truly American and Biblical values that Americans have allowed to be trodden down since WWII. There are now tens of millions of people out here trying to rebuild the walls of a fallen spiritual kingdom and for each one of us it is a personal, spiritual challenge and revolves around a personal relationship with God. We Americans are responsible and guilty of being passive regarding the truth, morals and corruption in government. We have been tolerant of corruption in every area of our existence and far too passive in seeking a higher mature relationship with the Lord.
We are in danger of being spit out of the Lords mouth because we have been lukewarm. In His eyes showing up to church on Saturday or Sunday doesn’t cut it if we forget Him every other day as most of us apparently have.
Like it or not He is the author and founder of this nation and He will destroy it if we don’t turn it around now. Most of these Americans standing up to be counted know this in their hearts. The world has experienced the great falling away predicted in the Bible paving the way for the last days. America must seek a restoration of the truths of our founding and build upon them. There is no other means of escape left for a nation being destroyed from within by its own corruption.
Frank Grimes: What did grandma do to you for you to wish her dead?
NH Tea Party: Keep up the good work–as only the Granite State of Daniel Webster could do. Wish he were here.
Jharp and Moho: Drop dead! No one will miss you!
Gordo: Right on!
My feelings: Those of us who oppose Obama’s proposals, his taking over of the auto industry, banks, etc., are considered “racists.” It is an unuttered fact that the “president” is the most racist among us! He is a breed, a mixture of black and white, but acknowledges only the black. He mentions his white side only when it benefits himself. He never mentions his white grandmother in the same warm, fuzzy words he does his Kenyan grandmother, even though the white grandmother did the most for him. His white grandfather fought in a war to keep him free to run on false credentials to become the “president,” but the man never gets any thanks. As for the “president’s” policies, his “service” and “volunteerism” should be spelled “slavery,” because that is what it is! This man will be going down one day, and he’s going to be whining and crying all the way!
102
I hope David S. and all the other liberals go on characterizing those who marched on 9/12 as racists. It will drive more and more decent people to vote against his thugocracy in 2010 and beyond.
I agree. It is reminiscent of the Inquisition accusing Galileo of going against Scripture with his heliocentric views. Try as they did, the Inquisition couldn’t stop the truth from coming out then, either.
I think that they’ve missed the shift in the culture, whereby accusations of racism are no longer potent, except in specific circumstances, none of which really apply to the Tea Parties.
Evil Otto. Yeah.
So you don’t really have a problem with being filled with hate?
But when you scratch the surface of a teabagger, it smells like rotten tomatoes.
Hmm. That’s it? That’s the best response you could come up with?
I think the Obama cultists like you are losing it. You expected after you won the election that you’d simply be able to do anything you liked, and we on the right would shut up and accept it. And our unwillingness to do this has made you angry… very angry. It’s given people like you and jharp license to unload all of the bile in your hearts.
You are going to be even more angry soon, trust me. We’re going to stop you. And you will have no one to blame but yourself in 2010 and 2012.
And you, Moho? Your hatred is like a fine wine to me. I enjoy it.
I agree with those of you here who believe this is not a “party” movement, but a movement of Americans. I have believed for some time that the biggest detriment to the American way of life are those with either a D or an R after their name.
People are tired of ALL politicians acting like rulers, as opposed to acting like the elected servants they are.
“This new movement will step outside the two party system as soon as candidates which emerge from it start winning elections without the endorsement of either party. Any ideas on how to get that started? (Is it too early?)”
Governorships. high profile, lower cost, but occasionally tough due to electoral protectionism.
jharp: Hey Mister Harper, I am still waiting on you, coward, to disclose you business name so we can get your vilenes in from of your “clients” (and your “family”). Still wussing out I see. Just like daddy?
I am laughing at you, big time, there nancy boy. What a girlie man!
Put your money were you mouth is, coward.
How is that “business career” of yours going, nancy boy? Thought so–pretty crappy, eh? Face it, it is what you deserve; you wife deserves it too, no doubt. Bet she heads out soon enough after you start sponging off of her.
Oh about taxes, wait until the Bush tax cuts expire. Just see who is laughing at whom. What a joke, more proof that you are no business man, or even a father.
Seriously, a two bit “businessman” like you has any knoweldge at all what “people think”? I bet even wifey is sick of you.
JHarp, I just have to assume that you are an idiot. If you had understood what I was saying none of your points make sense. You seem to be another mediocre product of our educational system which ignores critical thinking and promotes group-think because it just “feels right.” If you think Obama has cut taxes for 95% of this country you are a clown. Try reading a book or something.
Obama cut taxes for 95% of Americans? Forgetting for a moment that less than 95% of Americans pay any taxes, which legislation accomplished this?
As far as I knew, this is still just a campaign promise which has received no action. Can someone provide me with a link to the legislation?
Hey, Glenn, I just went to the SF Chron on your recommendation..
Front page.. National section.. Search engine..
NADA.. Not one bleeping blip. “Interesting“..
Got link..?
The controversy over the tea party numbers seems to focus only on the DC event. What about all the protests in other cities around the country?
The MSM seems to be playing the race card. My guess is that it will make tea party supporters angry. This may be a turning point when the easy charge of racism stops working and actually backfires.
107. jb:
Did anyone notice the NYT article which said the Tea Party movement was racist?
~~~~
Goes right along with the guy who’s sign said “it doesn’t matter what’s on this sign, you’ll call me a racist.”
by gosh, I think he nailed it.
127. jharpisajoke:
Wow, you’ve taken things around here to a whole new level. Next year, when your voice changes, you can write in capital letters.
No, Obama hasn’t cut taxs for 95% of Americans. That was yet another of his Campaign ‘misinformation’ tactics.
Here’s a link:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122385651698727257.html
Essentially, Obama is proposing, not tax cuts, which let you keep more of what you earn. He’s proposing tax-based handouts; money from the govt to you. Tax credit for tuition, for savings, for mortgages etc. Where would the money come from, to pay for these ‘benefits’ to people? From the taxpayer!
So, taxes will rise for many people because money is needed to pay forthese ‘benefits’.
And here’s a quote: “The total annual expenditures on refundable “tax credits” would rise over the next 10 years by $647 billion to $1.054 trillion, according to the Tax Policy Center. This means that the tax-credit welfare state would soon cost four times actual cash welfare. By redefining such income payments as “tax credits,” the Obama campaign also redefines them away as a tax share of GDP. Presto, the federal tax burden looks much smaller than it really is”.
It would be an enormous financial burden on the US middle class.
37. paul_unalaska:
“Your claim to be an ‘Independent’ today… puhleaaase. Your take on political matters has been strictly left, sometimes far left.”
in·de·pen·dent
adj.
2. Free from the influence, guidance, or control of another or others; self-reliant: an independent mind.
4. often Independent Affiliated with or loyal to no one political party or organization.
n.
1. often Independent. One that is independent, especially a voter, officeholder, or political candidate who is not committed to a political party.
By definition, I can have very conservative, moderate or liberal views. Read the definition again.
68. cubedweller:
“#6: “One of these days you won’t be able to tell Reds & Blues.”
Vivo, I would say looking at many Republican (”Red”) politicians, that day has already come, especially in my home state of New Jersey, arguably one of the most, if not THE most, politically corrupt (on both sides) in the country.”
I wasn’t referring to politicians turning into criminals, but from both ideologies fusing into one. This mass protest was Step One. Just wait a few years. Maybe that’s why Ralph Nader will be running again.
97. Donna V.:
“Er, vivo is ignoring the fact that France and Germany, which have climbed out of recession, now have leaders who are more conservative than the current president of the US. ”
U didn’t understand what I wrote: I’m actually acknowledging that fact. Read again.
“Ironically, Europe is turning toward fiscal conservativism and away from socialism at a time when the idiot leftists here are dragging us into the abyss.”
It’s not ironic. Government policies are NOT STATIC. They SHOULD change according to the needs of the country and its citizens. It’s like fine-tuning. Right now the USA is catching up with the 21st Century. Have you seen astronauts make correction to their path by adjusting their rockets? Pretty similar.
lee wacker:”What did grandma do to you for you to wish her dead?”
she placed a ceramic bunny out on the front lawn- in FLAGRANT disregard of rule 503.you know what her excuse was?
“b-b-but it’s my house!”
pbbbstt,PITIFULL…and boy,does she run slow….luckily for her i had been up for days and was on a riding lawnmower at the time-patrolling the perimeter for…..undesireables.
a few shouts from the .40 pep squad quickened her stride though.
the so-called ‘police’ showed up,tried to serve me with a “restraining order”.(WTF?)i calmly screamed at them that they had no authority here,that Grimistan was a soverein nation,to no avail.
Since I am a peaceful hippie type, I have been rather surprised by the trumped-up accusations that Tea Party-type protestors must be racist. I don’t see any connection between criticism directed against this administration’s Marxist policies and the fact that our President is bi-racial. Obama’s race is a non-issue for me, and when socialist-loving media outlets and politicians attempt to illogically connect my feelings about the President’s words and deeds with his racial background, I must simply conclude that they have no real arguments to support their points. It’s truly a disappointing aspect of today’s political landscape.
I give no politician a free pass based on his/her race or gender. As Dr. Martin Luther King stated so eloquently, we should judge another by the content of his/her character, not by the color of his/her skin. I am adhering to Dr. King’s dream and judging the President, his Czars and advisors, and members of Congress by the content of their respective characters. I will hold politicians from all races, religions, and ethnic backgrounds — and both genders — to the same high standard: do their deeds prove them worthy to be entrusted with the leadership of the greatest nation in history? I do not believe the Barack Obama should have been entrusted with this most sacred of duties; his actions and the people with whom he surrounds himself have told me everything I need to know about him. Furthermore, I do not believe that Pelosi, Reid, and many members of Congress really understand that they are our representatives, not our rulers. In short, it’s one big mess!
I would like to conclude with an additional comment: I am an atheist, a feminist, don’t care one way or the other about gay marriage, and don’t belong to any political party. During the November 2008 election, I voted for some Republicans and some Democrats. I am not sure that many people could accurately label me as conservative. Then why did I attend yesterday’s historic event in Washington? The answer is simple; as a student of history, I have seen what happens to nations when people desperate for change swallow the lovely-sounding sweet-nothings that are whispered in our ears by opportunistic, power-hungry politicians. I see America’s constitution being shredded bit by bit, and a Congress who seems oblivious to the fact that they are becoming impotent players in America’s governance. I see a media which, by and large, has chosen to get into bed with the powers that be in Washington. Rather than asking the tough questions and acting as our nation’s skeptics, today’s media members appear content to be lovestruck, moon-eyed fans of Obama, Pelosi, et al. I don’t get it. America deserves better.
Folks, PLEASE IGNORE THE TROLLS!
vivo jharp and other trash ARE NOT INTERESTED IN REASONABLE DISCUSSIONOR DEBATE.
They want to throw you off the path which WE have here.
THEY belong on Huffington Post or Daily Kos.
So, WHY DO YOU THINK THEY INFEST PJM?
WHY? Stop responding to trash.
If it weren’t for the efforts of the “fear mongering” Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, and Savage how many people do you think would even be aware of what is going on in this country. Should we go back to listening to the MSM?? I think not!! I’ll continue to listen to the alternative media and do my own filtering out of what I consider is fear mongering.
Enact a ‘third’ party and you get another ‘Slick Willy’ win because of some idjit ‘Ross Perot’ who spoke in a drawl about ‘chicken pluckers’ ad nauseum.
It’s always going to be a two-party system in ‘control’, so what has to be done is to rid the body politic of any/all lamerz who think they can ride the gravy train and ignore the people [yeah, the WHITE people] who pay taxes.
Racist? At this point in time, that’s a fuckin’ compliment.
These Tea Parties are also showing a switch in the mode of political activity. The MSM, which has long been the zone of the left, is becoming irrelevant. People are using grassroots or direct electronic communication – email, twitter, Internet, Utube etc; they aren’t beholden to the MSM for information or communication.
This alone will bury most liars in both political camps.It is becoming increasing clear that the GOP/Democrats need to go.Resist European socialism.Its a failed state of affairs.
Ok Teabaggrs – question for you (disclosure – I am a big fan of the movement – its real, strong, and organic).
Who are the political leaders that teabaggers can get behind?
# 139..so cool.
And many of you guys are darned right…and we will continue to listen to Beck in particular, Rush, and Hannity. The MSM can go to h e double ttothpicks, or hell for those of you that are NE liberals..and trolls…
Only question that I have is will the people that voted for Obama come to their senses for the next election …if enough of them lose their jobs, retirement, or find their ethics and common sense….
Evil Otto. Drink up, douchebag.
As I have stated before; a pew poll after the election revealed that 62% of Dems, and 90% of Pubs believed the MSM were in the tank for Obama. The American people know what is going on, but unfortunately the media are in their a bubble, and do not realize they will pay dearly.
Metz:
“Obama cut taxes for 95% of Americans? Forgetting for a moment that less than 95% of Americans pay any taxes, which legislation accomplished this?
As far as I knew, this is still just a campaign promise which has received no action. Can someone provide me with a link to the legislation?”
Obama cut taxes for 95% of TAXPAYERS. And yes, that includes those who pay no income taxes yet do pay payroll taxes.
And here is the link from the IRS.
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=204447,00.html
Or for a better analysis that shows the number getting tax cuts is 98.6% go here.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/08/obama-has-cut-taxes-for-986-percent-of.html
“143. gordo:
Ok Teabaggrs – question for you (disclosure – I am a big fan of the movement – its real, strong, and organic).
Who are the political leaders that teabaggers can get behind?
Sep 13, 2009 – 5:35 pm”
It’s hard to believe you’re a big fan of the movement when you use the obscene and moronic way of referring to the tea partiers that first emerged amongs the giggling teen agers of CNN and MSNBC (and that Alan Combs has just been twisting his little brain in knots trying to justify).
@143 gordo
I wish I knew who was out there. I heard Steve Forbes speak many years ago, and would be curious to hear his thoughts on some of todays issues. Anybody willing to try and instill term limits in Congress is worth listening to.
And to be honest with you, I think the person we need is somebody who doesn’t want the job in the first place.
You got to love the comment from Axelrod today about this movement. He stated that the people at the town hall and DC yesterday do not represent mainstream america.
I suppose a bus loaded with ACORN and SEIU thugs at town hall meetings are the true representation of America? Wouldn’t it be nice if we had an honest media?
Ok Mr. Sensitive (adam) I don’t watch much TV, the question still stands
Now and Then: What a juvenile little non-entity you are. What an effeminate, cowardly wastrel. You are even more female than J. Harper. I have nothing but contempt for your opinions, as do all the decent and the good, and as do all true Americans.
How sophomoric your responses–literally.
I imagine I own a couple of horses older then you–smarter too, and certainly more employable and useful. You are a leftist because you cannot and will not pull your own wait. What a loser. You are going to be another man’s boy all your life.
Just like your father, no doubt. No wonder you love slavery so, in it in your blood. Get used to paying rent too, you will be doing it all you life. I bet you never have kids either. Women do not like effeminate losers much, as you have most certainly discovered. You are facing a lifetime of that too.
You must have some little boy’s job, if you do not kive with mommy that is.
I would never hire filth like you, not even for the amusement of bossing you around.
# 139. Read1984Now:
Very well stated. You best summed up my sentiments as well with this observation:
“as a student of history, I have seen what happens to nations when people desperate for change swallow the lovely-sounding sweet-nothings that are whispered in our ears by opportunistic, power-hungry politicians.”
@ 148 jharp
Thanks for the links. These really aren’t tax cuts so much as they are gifts for two years as I understand them. Households would be eligible for up to $800 per year under this plan.
And btw, if somebody receives more in refundable credits than they’re paying in payroll taxes, effectively they aren’t paying any taxes, on income anyways.
Scratch a Democrat, and you find a liberal.
Scratch a liberal, and you find a totalitarian.
Scratch a totalitarian, and you find a fascist.
Scratch a fascist, and you find yourself in hospital.
Imagine the size of the crowd in Washington Saturday if they brought in thousands of unemployed, homeless people to prop up the numbers.I bet everyone in the rally paid their own way, with money they earned.
I participated in many anti-Vietnam protests in DC in the ’60s, and would have been glad to have been a part of the Tea Party this past weekend (logistics however, made it impossible).
Hopefully this is a beginning of a wave to get this country back together again. We’ve watched Big Media swoon over Obama for quite a number of years now, and it’s getting tired.
My biggest worry is that the 2010 elections get messed up because too many weirdos (think militias, circa 1980′s) get into the mix. Unfortunately, the Republican party really doesn’t have anyone they can start to promote to ensure that Obama is a 1-term joke. As Carter begot Reagan, we need our own generation’s Reagan now. Sorry, Palin can’t do it.
I’ll bet anyone on this blog $100,000 that Obama will not be at a political rally on Saturday 9/19. Obama is the biggest fraudster politician in the history of America.
This is huge. Libertards are getting scared. Once the monstrosity set in. Each and every congressmen and senators voted for it will lose their jobs. ACORN will not gonna be able save their jobs.
Trying to go the 3rd party route is futile. The individual state laws favor the two primary parties. We have seen what happens when a 3rd party movement tries — see Ross Perot and the election of Bill Clinton.
The solution is simple. Co-opt and capture the Republican primary. The venue is the primary system. Target primaries and capture them. Then run in the general election as a Republican. Replace the RINO types with patriots.
There doesn’t seem to be any need to worry about leaders right now–the thing is to stop Obama. Once that’s accomplished, all the disagreements among those who wanted to stop Obama will surface. What’s ultimately at stake is the unsustainability of the welfare state, but any political figure who brought that to the fore would also bring 1 million to Washington to oppose him. So, we are in a crisis, according to the Italian Marxist Antonio Gramsci’s definition: the old way cannot go on any longer, but the new way also can’t come into being. The best we can do is prevent the old way from entrenching itself so thoroughly that it leaves us no room to maneuver.
Metz:
@ 148 jharp
“Thanks for the links. These really aren’t tax cuts so much as they are gifts for two years as I understand them. Households would be eligible for up to $800 per year under this plan.”
“And btw, if somebody receives more in refundable credits than they’re paying in payroll taxes, effectively they aren’t paying any taxes, on income anyways.”
You are welcome. I am always happy to dispel wingnut myths. We’re all better off for it.
And please, without question they are tax cuts. For you to refer to them as gifts is preposterous.
And yes, if someone receives more in refundable credits than they paid in payroll taxes they aren’t paying any taxes on income. Yet that same guy would have paid more taxes without Obama’s tax cuts.
The fact is Obama cut taxes for about 95% of us. And the right wing gasbags have misled a pretty fair percentage of American’s to believe otherwise.
As per usual the Left is busy busy busy trying to censor out any large number estimates for the Tea Party in Washington DC.
152. gordo:
Ok Mr. Sensitive (adam) I don’t watch much TV
~~~
I believe you when you say you don’t watch much TV. but the origin of the term IS *VERY* obscene and Adam was certainly NOT being overly sensitive to object to its use by someone claiming to support the Tea Party movement. So, you who doesn’t watch much TV, take a lesson in linguistics. (and believe, you *don’t* want to know what it means.)
156. Jonathan Nolan:
Scratch a fascist, and you find yourself in hospital.
~~~
Are you sure that isn’t supposed to be “concentration camp”? oh, excuse me “re-education” camp.
Hannity and Beck ginned it up? i suppose if my people weren’t interested, they wouldn’t have shown up. some one has awakened the sleeping giant again.
regarding number 6 “vivo”…
Seems like somebody just found his new “independence”… Now that TP rising force can’t be stopped! “Signed, An Independent”… what a loser!
168. Ytzik:
You’re late to my party, I’ve been an Independent since day one, but the wackos here never pay attention.
We are the ones who carry the water. The fat-cat’s and inside deal makers watch out.
The trolls are out, but they can’t stop us. In the river they go!
144:”Who are the political leaders that teabaggers can get behind?”
the last time you used that bit we all got a few yucks out of it,but you ran it into the ground so….how about some updated material?
82. Moho: I protested the war in Iraq three times before it started. I e-mailed my senators and the White House to not invade Iraq. I was also at the 912 event in Washington on Saturday.
‘Independent since day one..’
Relying on Webster’s for your ‘party.’ Who are you fooling? Perhaps yourself.
‘A liberal man is to broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel’
-Robert Frost
When you do give your take, it’s expected fawning over Obama.
An Independent for Big’GER’ Government, One Party control and a myopic, partisan Government health care bill… hahaha!
A large number of people at Saturday’s event were Independents. You’re attempt at polluting, lying, etc., standing with the Independent Party -you’re a joke.
this movement will not be co-opted, it will do the co-opting
Step 1: Wall Street and a Republican administration (Two simultaneous wars, tax cuts for the wealthy, and trillions in wasteful no-bid contracts for Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater, Bechtel, etc.) fleece the American public and the Treasury, causing a massive depression.
Step 2: Democrats are voted in overwhelmingly to curb the GOP’s wasteful spending orgy, enforce current regulatory laws, and create new ones to reverse the second Republican-caused depression in 100 years.
Step 3: The private industries that previously had their mouths on the government $$ hose, including the energy, finance, and health care industries, get very nervous that the incoming Democratic admin is serious about regulation. So they call their right-wing lobbyist friends and Dick Armey.
“We need to build public support against the president so that there will not be any new regulation. Regulation means we lose profits, and we simply can’t have that. What do we do, Dick?”
“Relax,” says Dick. “I’ve been doing this for years. All we need to do is link your cause to the cause of the common GOP voter, and bingo, you’ve got an army of useful idiots to come out swinging and screaming for your cause.”
Step 5: Private industries pay big $$ to groups like Dick Armey’s Freedomworks to get out the message out to right-wing politicians, writers, radio/tv hosts and clergy: “We must oppose the Democrats because they want to regulate Wall Street, Big Energy and the Health Care industry. To counter this regulation, we’ll call the Democrats “Socialists” and “Marxists”, and hopefully that will be enough to rile up the GOP base.”
Step 6: The angry, poorly informed, talk radio-fed southern GOP voter is looking for an outlet for their nameless rage – a rage that the south always seems to be on the bottom of the heap. Rage that they have lost to the Democrats. Rage that no matter who they vote for, conservative values never seem to be on the agenda. And yes, rage that the president is a black man.
Step 7: The corporate-sponsored Astroturf rallies/marches provide that outlet. Private industry is able to co-opt the right wing rage and exploit it to their advantage, bussing angry southerners to rallies to voice their anger on TV and Youtube. Fox News reports on the events, boosting the number of attendees, and offering much-needed legitimacy to the events. GOP lawmakers assist the fearmongering, sending poor and senior citizens into paroxysms of fear and anger over manufactured claims of rationing, government takeover, forced abortions and death panels.
A triangulation of efforts ensues:
- Freedomworks uses the corporate contributions from energy/finance/health care to sponsor right-wing protests and rallies to get the message out.
- Fox News helps Freedomworks not only by providing free advertising for Freedomworks-promoted events, but also lends legitimacy by having rodeo clowns Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity urge Fox viewers to attend the manufactured events.
- GOP lawmakers, presiding over southern and midwestern welfare states, use the culture wars to convince their frustrated voter base to attend the rallies, once again hoodwinking the GOP voter to oppose their own interests by fearmongering that legalized abortion, teaching evolution in high school, and regulating Wall Street are far, far worse perils than having no job, having no health care, having no way to attain higher education, and having no way to save money for the future.
- Industry lobbyists interviewed on FOX News point to YouTube videos as evidence that the protests are grassroots and that they are representative of a majority of Americans.
Step 8: Private industry’s funding of the right-wing movement backfires. As the healthcare/finance/energy industries misjudge motives and overestimate the intelligence of the right wing voter, it becomes evident that while the Tea Parties have failed to bring about the resurgence of a legitimate, focused Republican party as planned, they have had the unexpected result of mainstreaming the kind of violent, racist, ignorant, hateful theocratic ideology that has lain dormant in the south for the last 50 years since civil rights legislation. As the movement is hijacked by the same breed of militant brownshirts that propelled the Nazis to power, the energy/finance/ad health care industries are forced by a looming PR nightmare to divest themselves of funding the rallies/protests, FOX News pretends they never had anything to do with them in the first place, the GOP is still leaderless, and, as always, the average GOP voter is left on the side of the road wondering how he got hoodwinked again.
Step 9: Decades of Democrat congressional majorities follow, during which American prosperity rises. Nobody notices, but even the south prospers.
Step 10: A generation of Americans is born into prosperity that knows little about the GOP, and has no first-hand knowledge of how terribly they govern. Because they have been born into an era of prosperity, they have a bit of money to spend and save. The GOP is able to convince this history-challenged voter that tax cuts and limits to the capital gains tax will only create more prosperity, and this message sounds great to a growing middle class that suddenly has some money to save, and has little conception that the GOP’s strategy is prescription for another depression.
Step 11: America, with its stunning inability to learn from history, votes GOP.
Step 12: Repeat step 1.
The tea party committee I’m part of refuses to allow Republicans to speak at our events. I’d guess many follow suit.
If the GOP has the brains God gave a goose, they will court the movement. So far it is not happening.
Since both major parties have abandoned us, we are learning to look at voting records, to fact-check candidates, find a gazillion news sources to try to learn what the actual news is. A 3rd party won’t work, so we have to identify candidates that will represent us no matter their affiliation. We have large enough numbers to make a difference.
Mr Harper. More evidence that you are lying about that “business career” of yours.
If you think that those are “tax cuts” either in a national aggregate or for the individual, you had better get yourself a good accountant (and lawyer) real soon.
There is no aggregate “cut”, or even an aggregate reduction in the growth of rates. It s pure Marxist hokum, amd smoke and mirrors. They are in effect sort term tax credits, not cuts, there nancy boy. It is designed to have more people dependent on government than pay taxes. This is profoundly immoral and socially disruptive, and you would understand this if you possessed one shred of decency or concern for your nation (or even your “family”).
No wonder you have such crappy accomplishments to show as a “business man”, you cannot even figure out how the formal tax system works. Ask “wifey”, she must do the taxes aournd tat pig pen of yours. No dount wears te pants too.
jharpisajoke:
If you think that those are “tax cuts” either in a national aggregate or for the individual, you had better get yourself a good accountant (and lawyer) real soon.
There is no aggregate “cut”, or even an aggregate reduction in the growth of rates. They are in effect sort term tax credits, not cuts, there nancy boy.
Ask “wifey”, she must do the taxes aournd tat pig pen of yours.
____________________________________________________________
Here you go.
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=204447,00.html
You got one point right. Good one. The tax credit is for 2009 only. Nevertheless it is a tax cut, in the form of credit, that lowers the amount of taxes paid in 2009, for 95% of Americans.
And even though I have an accounting degree from a Big Ten University, my wife does do the taxes.
174. paul_unalaska:
‘Independent since day one..’
“Relying on Webster’s for your ‘party.’ Who are you fooling? Perhaps yourself.”
You are soooo confused. I said U r late to my party (celebration), not political entity.
The definition was for ‘independent’ (free), not the political entity.
Sorry if u can’t follow simple things.
Someone mentioned Japan. Hmm, let’s see. Japan is an increasingly aging population headed for a population crash. Japan is an incredibly racist nation who like the Greeks refer to foreigners as barbarians. Japan’s immigration policies are ridiculously tight, with very strict integration rules.
Japan also has a whole lot more people who eat fish and veggies. Plus a historical savings rate of ~20%, and a majority of people do not even own credit cards.
I’m fairly sure if Americans adopted Japanese ways, then it might work out.
Let’s not talk about France, where the radio stations must by law play >60% French content, or Germany, where clashes between Germans and Turks are legendary.
Adina Kutnicki, Israel:
Hello, Adina! There’s already talk of another similar event next year (especially if the pols continue to be deaf to the meaning of this one). So start saving your pennies and frequent flier miles for next summer. It would be great to have you there!