Comments on: David Irving and the Banality of Revisionism http://pjmedia.com/blog/david-irving-and-the-banality-of-revisionism/ Wed, 15 Feb 2012 23:23:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: David H http://pjmedia.com/blog/david-irving-and-the-banality-of-revisionism/#comment-397140 David H Mon, 14 Sep 2009 09:10:02 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=66306#comment-397140 Personally I do not agree with Irving views, but in this case he managed to get people who were close to Hitler to express themselves and anyone interested in the facts should at least listen to their stories. Personally I do not agree with Irving views, but in this case he managed to get people who were close to Hitler to express themselves and anyone interested in the facts should at least listen to their stories.

]]> By: BrianS http://pjmedia.com/blog/david-irving-and-the-banality-of-revisionism/#comment-396798 BrianS Sun, 13 Sep 2009 22:32:18 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=66306#comment-396798 "when asked by Eduardo Suárez of El Mundo whether on his account Hitler, Churchill, Stalin, Roosevelt, and Truman “were all equally bad,” Irving responded as follows: "Of course. All of them had absolutely no respect for human life. The real crime of the Second World War was not genocide, but what I call “innocentocide.” The killing of innocent persons. The killing of the Jews is not a crime because they were Jews, but rather because they were innocent Jews. "" The problem of treating the population of an enemy as 'innocent' is not just European. It is a decidedly American problem as well. It is the acceptance of 'Just War Theory' - a theory the US has made, much to its detriment - its controlling policy, as evidenced by both wars in Iraq. http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2006-spring/just-war-theory.asp Put simply, the relativism cited in Rosenthal's article is but an example of a more widespread and more devastating philosophic virus - a virus which most are oblivious to but which is now pandemic in the West. “when asked by Eduardo Suárez of El Mundo whether on his account Hitler, Churchill, Stalin, Roosevelt, and Truman “were all equally bad,” Irving responded as follows:

“Of course. All of them had absolutely no respect for human life. The real crime of the Second World War was not genocide, but what I call “innocentocide.” The killing of innocent persons. The killing of the Jews is not a crime because they were Jews, but rather because they were innocent Jews. “”

The problem of treating the population of an enemy as ‘innocent’ is not just European. It is a decidedly American problem as well. It is the acceptance of ‘Just War Theory’ – a theory the US has made, much to its detriment – its controlling policy, as evidenced by both wars in Iraq.

http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2006-spring/just-war-theory.asp

Put simply, the relativism cited in Rosenthal’s article is but an example of a more widespread and more devastating philosophic virus – a virus which most are oblivious to but which is now pandemic in the West.

]]> By: David H http://pjmedia.com/blog/david-irving-and-the-banality-of-revisionism/#comment-396399 David H Sun, 13 Sep 2009 13:24:47 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=66306#comment-396399 As a European nationalist I am in the position of supporting Israel and the Jewish people because it is the right thing to do as the Jewish people are enlightened humane people who are perhaps the best of us, though I sometimes wonder if their own self-depreciation is what makes them make so many wrong choices, excuse the generalisation there. The Holocaust happened and there is no getting away from it, the Jewish people hunted those Nazi's that got away and that was good, however later we saw the very same people who went after real Nazi's hounding people that were caught up in all and did nothing worse than try to survive. It does not matter how many Jews were killed does it make it any worse or better, the fact that some people decided to use the Jewish people to gain power and then went out to exterminate them, these were fine talented gentle people and the world has lost much for their execution. In terms of Irving, he went out and spoke to people close to Hitler, no matter what people feel about his motives or leanings he was reporting what they said. Dave, the shame of the first world war I accept, the shame of extreme Socialists like Hitler and Stalin I reject totally, my people were those like Churchill who stood up and were counted. The USA has supported from the start the EU to prevent any more European wars, I wonder what would have ben the situation if your government had kept its eye on democratic principals, liberty and basic freedoms in all of this, I would think that I would not have lost my freedoms to this degree if your leaders had been the shining beacon on the hill that I so much admired. Anyway great demo in DC, I wish that we could have the same in Europe, too late for that now, we have nothing to stand up for and no matter your contempt for my feelings, I live in Europe and see the impact of the EU day after day. I do not blame the USA, I only blame the USA as the leading democratic country for not sticking up to its prinicpals and that is one of the reasons why I have lost many of my freedoms. And I am truly sad to say that. Marie Claude, a sad story, I regret their loss, we are from a different political spectrum, but I see that you are pround of La France and I respect you greatly for that. As a European nationalist I am in the position of supporting Israel and the Jewish people because it is the right thing to do as the Jewish people are enlightened humane people who are perhaps the best of us, though I sometimes wonder if their own self-depreciation is what makes them make so many wrong choices, excuse the generalisation there.

The Holocaust happened and there is no getting away from it, the Jewish people hunted those Nazi’s that got away and that was good, however later we saw the very same people who went after real Nazi’s hounding people that were caught up in all and did nothing worse than try to survive.

It does not matter how many Jews were killed does it make it any worse or better, the fact that some people decided to use the Jewish people to gain power and then went out to exterminate them, these were fine talented gentle people and the world has lost much for their execution.

In terms of Irving, he went out and spoke to people close to Hitler, no matter what people feel about his motives or leanings he was reporting what they said.

Dave, the shame of the first world war I accept, the shame of extreme Socialists like Hitler and Stalin I reject totally, my people were those like Churchill who stood up and were counted. The USA has supported from the start the EU to prevent any more European wars, I wonder what would have ben the situation if your government had kept its eye on democratic principals, liberty and basic freedoms in all of this, I would think that I would not have lost my freedoms to this degree if your leaders had been the shining beacon on the hill that I so much admired. Anyway great demo in DC, I wish that we could have the same in Europe, too late for that now, we have nothing to stand up for and no matter your contempt for my feelings, I live in Europe and see the impact of the EU day after day. I do not blame the USA, I only blame the USA as the leading democratic country for not sticking up to its prinicpals and that is one of the reasons why I have lost many of my freedoms. And I am truly sad to say that.

Marie Claude, a sad story, I regret their loss, we are from a different political spectrum, but I see that you are pround of La France and I respect you greatly for that.

]]> By: GB http://pjmedia.com/blog/david-irving-and-the-banality-of-revisionism/#comment-396149 GB Sun, 13 Sep 2009 03:28:48 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=66306#comment-396149 David H. I think you are on the money. In school in the '50s I was taught that 6,500,000 Jews perished at hands of Nazi's. End of argument! Not a soul fewer. Even then it rankled to have someone else tell me what I had to believe, or else. A book I later read argued in a detailed manner the total was 4.9 million. The events are nearly 70 years ago so we will never be much the wiser. The propaganda of the "Holocaust Industry", caused me for several decades to be anti-semitic, until I grew older and came to realise that it was just the MSM doing its usual (crappy) thing. The only people they present are the most outspoken, loudest, and angry, or those who are after something. Perhaps many Jewish people reflect on their loss and appreciate that these "spokespeople" cause much resentment. I have known post-WWII migrants from Poland and Baltic states. They loathe Jews, and much of it is a perception that the "Holocaust Industry" went too far and over-reached in its demand that 100% of sympathy be for Jews and none at all for the others who perished. Of course, the Jewish failed to integrate in Eastern Europe and the SS had little difficulty in recruiting helpers in its "final solution". I read a long book by David Irving about Erhard Milch. I could sense his sympathy and admiration for his subject, but found his book easy to read. If the Austrian Gov't wants to chase deniers of WWII events it is their affair but they set themselves up as hypocrites and for ridicule. Many years ago Kurt Waldheim was pilloried by the "Holocaust Industry" because he served as an intelligence officer for the Wehrmacht. He had been drafted into the army, and after 1942 saw service in Balkans in a guerrilla war. I felt sorry for him as it was fate that led to his birth in 1918 in Austria and an intelligence that caused his selection as an officer. Waldheim, later Sec. General of United Nations and diplomat probably never wished to participate in the maelstrom of the Balkans insurgency, but the outraged screams of the harridans of the "Holocaust Industry" incline me to give him a free pass. As an English speaker I resent groups appropriating words from my language. Is is spelt holocaust. I hope that the witch hunt for WWII war criminals has had it's day. The real criminals, in positions of power are probably all dead! And Pope Benedict. He was 16 and had no say in it-get over it please! David H. I think you are on the money. In school in the ’50s I was taught that 6,500,000 Jews perished at hands of Nazi’s. End of argument! Not a soul fewer. Even then it rankled to have someone else tell me what I had to believe, or else. A book I later read argued in a detailed manner the total was 4.9 million. The events are nearly 70 years ago so we will never be much the wiser. The propaganda of the “Holocaust Industry”, caused me for several decades to be anti-semitic, until I grew older and came to realise that it was just the MSM doing its usual (crappy) thing. The only people they present are the most outspoken, loudest, and angry, or those who are after something. Perhaps many Jewish people reflect on their loss and appreciate that these “spokespeople” cause much resentment. I have known post-WWII migrants from Poland and Baltic states. They loathe Jews, and much of it is a perception that the “Holocaust Industry” went too far and over-reached in its demand that 100% of sympathy be for Jews and none at all for the others who perished. Of course, the Jewish failed to integrate in Eastern Europe and the SS had little difficulty in recruiting helpers in its “final solution”.
I read a long book by David Irving about Erhard Milch. I could sense his sympathy and admiration for his subject, but found his book easy to read. If the Austrian Gov’t wants to chase deniers of WWII events it is their affair but they set themselves up as hypocrites and for ridicule. Many years ago Kurt Waldheim was pilloried by the “Holocaust Industry” because he served as an intelligence officer for the Wehrmacht. He had been drafted into the army, and after 1942 saw service in Balkans in a guerrilla war. I felt sorry for him as it was fate that led to his birth in 1918 in Austria and an intelligence that caused his selection as an officer. Waldheim, later Sec. General of United Nations and diplomat probably never wished to participate in the maelstrom of the Balkans insurgency, but the outraged screams of the harridans of the “Holocaust Industry” incline me to give him a free pass. As an English speaker I resent groups appropriating words from my language. Is is spelt holocaust. I hope that the witch hunt for WWII war criminals has had it’s day. The real criminals, in positions of power are probably all dead! And Pope Benedict. He was 16 and had no say in it-get over it please!

]]> By: Greying Wanderer http://pjmedia.com/blog/david-irving-and-the-banality-of-revisionism/#comment-396136 Greying Wanderer Sun, 13 Sep 2009 02:57:25 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=66306#comment-396136 38 "the unions, which are of lefty obedience, were/still are opposed to importation of cheap labor forces" Union members may be opposed but not the union bosses - more members equals more power. However I do agree it's not just marxists who wanted this mass immigration - big business also wants it for cheap labour and hasn't taken into account the permanent left-wing government that would inevitably result. "this is in contradiction to what it is usely acknowledged as national SOCIALISM" The Fascist parties (regardless of the name) were violently anti-Communist. That's why they gained enough support to take power. The name is irrelevant. In Britain there was never a very strong Communist party so there was never a very strong Fascist reaction. The marxist left wants their holocaust covered up. One consequence of this has been the focusing on the Nazi holocaust with the consequent obsession over race. This obsession over race is preventing any kind of defense of the western world from Islam. Bringing out the Bolshevik crimes puts the focus on the common link, totalitarian ideology, all totalitarian ideologies, both political and religous. It has to be done. The only alternative is the slow spread of those satellite dishes throughout Europe. 38 “the unions, which are of lefty obedience, were/still are opposed to importation of cheap labor forces”

Union members may be opposed but not the union bosses – more members equals more power.

However I do agree it’s not just marxists who wanted this mass immigration – big business also wants it for cheap labour and hasn’t taken into account the permanent left-wing government that would inevitably result.

“this is in contradiction to what it is usely acknowledged as national SOCIALISM”

The Fascist parties (regardless of the name) were violently anti-Communist. That’s why they gained enough support to take power. The name is irrelevant. In Britain there was never a very strong Communist party so there was never a very strong Fascist reaction.

The marxist left wants their holocaust covered up. One consequence of this has been the focusing on the Nazi holocaust with the consequent obsession over race. This obsession over race is preventing any kind of defense of the western world from Islam.

Bringing out the Bolshevik crimes puts the focus on the common link, totalitarian ideology, all totalitarian ideologies, both political and religous.

It has to be done. The only alternative is the slow spread of those satellite dishes throughout Europe.

]]> By: Bleepless http://pjmedia.com/blog/david-irving-and-the-banality-of-revisionism/#comment-396130 Bleepless Sun, 13 Sep 2009 02:41:22 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=66306#comment-396130 11. Forgive me for getting back on the original topic, but this is about David Irving. His second book, "The Destruction of Convoy PQ 17," blamed a very bad decision on the commander of the convoy. This was not true. When Irving's publisher asked him about this issue, he blithely replied that the guy probably was daad, so publish. It worked. Alas, the commander was still alive and sued the crap out of Irving and the publisher. He won a bundle. 11. Forgive me for getting back on the original topic, but this is about David Irving. His second book, “The Destruction of Convoy PQ 17,” blamed a very bad decision on the commander of the convoy. This was not true. When Irving’s publisher asked him about this issue, he blithely replied that the guy probably was daad, so publish. It worked. Alas, the commander was still alive and sued the crap out of Irving and the publisher. He won a bundle.

]]> By: Marie Claude http://pjmedia.com/blog/david-irving-and-the-banality-of-revisionism/#comment-396081 Marie Claude Sat, 12 Sep 2009 23:56:34 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=66306#comment-396081 Dave, you're a bit lazy, you jump to quickly on deductions The probem is that you're listening too much to MSM it's funny, on this side of the pond, we care more of the details who said Europe feels shame ? not more as you should, remember America isolationism ! If you had cared of what Germany was prepearing, then not such happening would have occured, cuz America had her word to say, since your president Wilson wanted to assist to the VersailLes treaty The thing is that if America can't make businesses with any nations, then America fights back. all your policies are based on free marckets, not on people's life and threaths Dave, you’re a bit lazy, you jump to quickly on deductions
The probem is that you’re listening too much to MSM

it’s funny, on this side of the pond, we care more of the details

who said Europe feels shame ? not more as you should, remember America isolationism ! If you had cared of what Germany was prepearing, then not such happening would have occured, cuz America had her word to say, since your president Wilson wanted to assist to the VersailLes treaty

The thing is that if America can’t make businesses with any nations, then America fights back.

all your policies are based on free marckets, not on people’s life and threaths

]]> By: dave http://pjmedia.com/blog/david-irving-and-the-banality-of-revisionism/#comment-395894 dave Sat, 12 Sep 2009 18:50:58 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=66306#comment-395894 Amazing. The EU is America's fault, the bombing of Dresden makes the Allies no better than the nazis, the Jews are to blame for keeping the details of the german mass murder of Roma from reaching the public, etc. Thanks for the laughs. Two things. One, you can't blame America for europe's shame. Their nationalism ended with the ruins of WWI. That was the last time any continental european was able to defend his nation against fascism or occupation. The reason for the shame is that continental europeans either fell to the nazis, surrendered to the nazis, or became a nazi. I'd be ashamed too. Two: The austrians have decided to make Holocaust denial illegal and put Irving in jail. Austria is one of the most unrepentant nations, as well as the most guilty, when it comes to culpability in nazi crimes. Austria prefers not to talk about their nazi past, and someone like Irving only serves to bring unwanted attention to this significant part of austrian history. While your typical Irving sympathizer will blame 'the Jews' for Irving's jail term, in fact it is the austrians, the greatest nazis of all, who choose to muzzle Irving rather than countenance the negative attention his visit brings. Amazing. The EU is America’s fault, the bombing of Dresden makes the Allies no better than the nazis, the Jews are to blame for keeping the details of the german mass murder of Roma from reaching the public, etc.
Thanks for the laughs.

Two things. One, you can’t blame America for europe’s shame. Their nationalism ended with the ruins of WWI. That was the last time any continental european was able to defend his nation against fascism or occupation. The reason for the shame is that continental europeans either fell to the nazis, surrendered to the nazis, or became a nazi. I’d be ashamed too.

Two: The austrians have decided to make Holocaust denial illegal and put Irving in jail. Austria is one of the most unrepentant nations, as well as the most guilty, when it comes to culpability in nazi crimes. Austria prefers not to talk about their nazi past, and someone like Irving only serves to bring unwanted attention to this significant part of austrian history.
While your typical Irving sympathizer will blame ‘the Jews’ for Irving’s jail term, in fact it is the austrians, the greatest nazis of all, who choose to muzzle Irving rather than countenance the negative attention his visit brings.

]]> By: Marie Claude http://pjmedia.com/blog/david-irving-and-the-banality-of-revisionism/#comment-395778 Marie Claude Sat, 12 Sep 2009 14:52:09 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=66306#comment-395778 David, a beautiful and "tasty" chronicle of a village in north of Caen during the siège, but it ended tragically for the french family, so typical of the provinces http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/14/a4000014.shtml David, a beautiful and “tasty” chronicle of a village in north of Caen during the siège, but it ended tragically for the french family, so typical of the provinces

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/14/a4000014.shtml

]]> By: Marie Claude http://pjmedia.com/blog/david-irving-and-the-banality-of-revisionism/#comment-395674 Marie Claude Sat, 12 Sep 2009 10:39:02 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=66306#comment-395674 "they should blame the marxists that wanted Europe to be submerged under mass immigration and multi culturalism." Hmmm, this is funny, the unions, which are of lefty obedience, were/still are opposed to importation of cheap labor forces, say, the capitalists bourgeois wanted to improve their benefits, and, curiously, they live in ivory towers, where they don't hear noises and smell these exotic fragrances " which was the primary reason ordinary German people voted for an extreme party like the Nazis. " this is in contradiction to what it is usely acknowledged as "national SOCIALISM" “they should blame the marxists that wanted Europe to be submerged under mass immigration and multi culturalism.”

Hmmm, this is funny, the unions, which are of lefty obedience, were/still are opposed to importation of cheap labor forces, say, the capitalists bourgeois wanted to improve their benefits, and, curiously, they live in ivory towers, where they don’t hear noises and smell these exotic fragrances

” which was the primary reason ordinary German people voted for an extreme party like the Nazis. ”

this is in contradiction to what it is usely acknowledged as “national SOCIALISM”

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