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	<title>Comments on: Culture Makes the Internet Cruder, Not the Other Way Around</title>
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		<title>By: Families and Technology &#187; The Only Thing We Have to Fear&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/culture-makes-the-internet-cruder-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-209141</link>
		<dc:creator>Families and Technology &#187; The Only Thing We Have to Fear&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=46877#comment-209141</guid>
		<description>[...] Culture Makes the Internet Cruder, Not the Other Way Around [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Culture Makes the Internet Cruder, Not the Other Way Around [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BigDana</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/culture-makes-the-internet-cruder-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-204571</link>
		<dc:creator>BigDana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=46877#comment-204571</guid>
		<description>I agree with this article.  Too much of what one sees on the Internet these days merely reflects the lack of education of the people who write.  Look at so many posts on political blogs, where people show a woeful lack of grammar, spelling, vocabulary, etc.

A few weeks back I encountered a wonderful series of articles titled &quot;What, Me Read?&quot; by a long-time college professor of literature.  He says that we are now in a post-literate age, where youngsters do not read as a matter of course (except for abbreviation-filled cell phone text messages).  

I certainly don&#039;t believe we can blame the Internet.  This trend began when we as parents turned our babysitting chores over to the television.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with this article.  Too much of what one sees on the Internet these days merely reflects the lack of education of the people who write.  Look at so many posts on political blogs, where people show a woeful lack of grammar, spelling, vocabulary, etc.</p>
<p>A few weeks back I encountered a wonderful series of articles titled &#8220;What, Me Read?&#8221; by a long-time college professor of literature.  He says that we are now in a post-literate age, where youngsters do not read as a matter of course (except for abbreviation-filled cell phone text messages).  </p>
<p>I certainly don&#8217;t believe we can blame the Internet.  This trend began when we as parents turned our babysitting chores over to the television.</p>
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		<title>By: typos_R_us</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/culture-makes-the-internet-cruder-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-204332</link>
		<dc:creator>typos_R_us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 14:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=46877#comment-204332</guid>
		<description>Was it Churchill or Stalin that said culture is the state of a civilization&#039;s plumbing?  Whoever said it was correct.
Of course the concept of &quot;culture&quot; has many different forms;

&quot;A nation&#039;s culture resides in the hearts and in the soul of its people.&quot;
Mohandas Gandhi

&quot;You have a lot of time on these tours. As Alice Cooper said, you can either drink all day or golf.&quot;
Justin Timberlake 

Culture can be all things to all people, so to say culture varies from society to society is correct.  Saying that one culture is superior to another is erroneous.
American culture is judged by many to be superior because it exports a lot of cultural products, is widely emulated, the plumbing works and more often then not the lights go on when you flip the switch.
Other people consider Chinese culture to be superior because it is older.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was it Churchill or Stalin that said culture is the state of a civilization&#8217;s plumbing?  Whoever said it was correct.<br />
Of course the concept of &#8220;culture&#8221; has many different forms;</p>
<p>&#8220;A nation&#8217;s culture resides in the hearts and in the soul of its people.&#8221;<br />
Mohandas Gandhi</p>
<p>&#8220;You have a lot of time on these tours. As Alice Cooper said, you can either drink all day or golf.&#8221;<br />
Justin Timberlake </p>
<p>Culture can be all things to all people, so to say culture varies from society to society is correct.  Saying that one culture is superior to another is erroneous.<br />
American culture is judged by many to be superior because it exports a lot of cultural products, is widely emulated, the plumbing works and more often then not the lights go on when you flip the switch.<br />
Other people consider Chinese culture to be superior because it is older.</p>
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		<title>By: Yaakov Watkins</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/culture-makes-the-internet-cruder-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-204194</link>
		<dc:creator>Yaakov Watkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 05:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=46877#comment-204194</guid>
		<description>I was dissatisfied with Hawkin&#039;s article and I welcome Graham&#039;s rebuttal. 

I usually use my full real name as a web name. Because it is unusual, I am noticeable.  It keeps me honest.  Since I am free with my opinions, and I have a unique name, it occurred to me to google myself.  It was interesting to see my comments from several years ago.  I resolved to make sure that I am willing to admit to everything I say.  

It occurs to me that a mediated blog which required people to use their real names with addresses posted might produce a more polite and less irresponsible discussion.  

I think Graham&#039;s point is valid.  Our culture of relaxed standards is showing in the internet.  

AnninCA, your comment reminded me of a story from the late 1960s, told by a young lady who objected verbally to profanity being used in her presence.  The offenders changed their mode of speech.  An elderly gentleman approached her and thanked her.  He said that he missed having young *ladies* around.  I find myself agreeing with him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was dissatisfied with Hawkin&#8217;s article and I welcome Graham&#8217;s rebuttal. </p>
<p>I usually use my full real name as a web name. Because it is unusual, I am noticeable.  It keeps me honest.  Since I am free with my opinions, and I have a unique name, it occurred to me to google myself.  It was interesting to see my comments from several years ago.  I resolved to make sure that I am willing to admit to everything I say.  </p>
<p>It occurs to me that a mediated blog which required people to use their real names with addresses posted might produce a more polite and less irresponsible discussion.  </p>
<p>I think Graham&#8217;s point is valid.  Our culture of relaxed standards is showing in the internet.  </p>
<p>AnninCA, your comment reminded me of a story from the late 1960s, told by a young lady who objected verbally to profanity being used in her presence.  The offenders changed their mode of speech.  An elderly gentleman approached her and thanked her.  He said that he missed having young *ladies* around.  I find myself agreeing with him.</p>
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		<title>By: njcommuter</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/culture-makes-the-internet-cruder-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-204182</link>
		<dc:creator>njcommuter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 04:36:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=46877#comment-204182</guid>
		<description>I was involved in online forums back in 1982.  Yes, 1982, on Usenet.  The word &lt;i&gt;netiquette&lt;/i&gt; was invented there, and rude people were called &lt;i&gt;flamers&lt;/i&gt;.  And then, the gates opened and the barbarians poured in:&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;b&gt;September that never ended&lt;/b&gt;

    All time since September 1993. One of the seasonal rhythms of the Usenet used to be the annual September influx of clueless newbies who, lacking any sense of netiquette, made a general nuisance of themselves. This coincided with people starting college, getting their first internet accounts, and plunging in without bothering to learn what was acceptable. These relatively small drafts of newbies could be assimilated within a few months. But in September 1993, AOL users became able to post to Usenet, nearly overwhelming the old-timers&#039; capacity to acculturate them; to those who nostalgically recall the period before, this triggered an inexorable decline in the quality of discussions on newsgroups. Syn. eternal September. See also AOL!.&lt;/blockquote&gt;(Source: &lt;a href=&quot;http://catb.org/jargon/html/S/September-that-never-ended.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Jargon File: September-that-never-ended&lt;/a&gt;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was involved in online forums back in 1982.  Yes, 1982, on Usenet.  The word <i>netiquette</i> was invented there, and rude people were called <i>flamers</i>.  And then, the gates opened and the barbarians poured in:<br />
<blockquote><b>September that never ended</b></p>
<p>    All time since September 1993. One of the seasonal rhythms of the Usenet used to be the annual September influx of clueless newbies who, lacking any sense of netiquette, made a general nuisance of themselves. This coincided with people starting college, getting their first internet accounts, and plunging in without bothering to learn what was acceptable. These relatively small drafts of newbies could be assimilated within a few months. But in September 1993, AOL users became able to post to Usenet, nearly overwhelming the old-timers&#8217; capacity to acculturate them; to those who nostalgically recall the period before, this triggered an inexorable decline in the quality of discussions on newsgroups. Syn. eternal September. See also AOL!.</p></blockquote>
<p>(Source: <a href="http://catb.org/jargon/html/S/September-that-never-ended.html" rel="nofollow">The Jargon File: September-that-never-ended</a>)</p>
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		<title>By: happy1ga</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/culture-makes-the-internet-cruder-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-204122</link>
		<dc:creator>happy1ga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=46877#comment-204122</guid>
		<description>While I agree that discourse on the intranets is vile at times,(o.k. often), some of the posts here come across as extremely classist. Mentioning farflung geographic echo chambers, and lowered intelligence of users, not to mention trailer park dwellers. I have seen things posted all around the net by people who weren&#039;t educated, were obviously not sophisticated and struggling financially. Does this make them lesser? I feel very uncomfortable categorically stating something like that, myself. Some of the vilest things I have ever read in a political forum were posted at Think Progress, Huffington, Daily Kos, Democrat Underground, and FireDogLake. These people for the most part are educated, some highly educated, yet they seem completely ignorant of how our government works. They are petty, vicious, censor beyon belief, and casually call for people they disagree with ideologically with to be shot, hung, _______________. Their spelling, punctuation, and use of profanity, are a whole &#039;nother ball of wax. This coming from the supposedly smartest kids in class. Just ask them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree that discourse on the intranets is vile at times,(o.k. often), some of the posts here come across as extremely classist. Mentioning farflung geographic echo chambers, and lowered intelligence of users, not to mention trailer park dwellers. I have seen things posted all around the net by people who weren&#8217;t educated, were obviously not sophisticated and struggling financially. Does this make them lesser? I feel very uncomfortable categorically stating something like that, myself. Some of the vilest things I have ever read in a political forum were posted at Think Progress, Huffington, Daily Kos, Democrat Underground, and FireDogLake. These people for the most part are educated, some highly educated, yet they seem completely ignorant of how our government works. They are petty, vicious, censor beyon belief, and casually call for people they disagree with ideologically with to be shot, hung, _______________. Their spelling, punctuation, and use of profanity, are a whole &#8216;nother ball of wax. This coming from the supposedly smartest kids in class. Just ask them.</p>
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		<title>By: Delia</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/culture-makes-the-internet-cruder-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-204088</link>
		<dc:creator>Delia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 21:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=46877#comment-204088</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t make me go ALL CAPS!

Seriously though... There are some real dunces on the internet now. Back in the days of yore with win95 bsod headaches, there were far less &#039;youth&#039; on the internet. Young folks on the internet can be VERY dangerous indeed. People used to gripe at parents who let their kids watch too much television as a cheap &#039;babysitter&#039; but at least Daffy Duck wasn&#039;t talking dirty to little Jane or little John. Now, kids are often left with far too much freedom on the internet and exposed to things that are disturbing to even ponder.

Unfortunately, there will always be EVIL in this world or just plain old-fashioned JERKS. The WWW is just that... the &quot;WORLD WIDE WEB&quot; and that in and of itself has a lot of implications that require due diligence and maturity with regards to safety and maturity. The idiots who get on the internet without caring about installing firewalls and anti-virus programs are the ones usually responsible for spreading the bugs around.

I adore my computers because they really CAN save a lot of time and also, you get to have the chance to converse with people from all walks of life but people DO need to buck up and be careful. VERY careful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t make me go ALL CAPS!</p>
<p>Seriously though&#8230; There are some real dunces on the internet now. Back in the days of yore with win95 bsod headaches, there were far less &#8216;youth&#8217; on the internet. Young folks on the internet can be VERY dangerous indeed. People used to gripe at parents who let their kids watch too much television as a cheap &#8216;babysitter&#8217; but at least Daffy Duck wasn&#8217;t talking dirty to little Jane or little John. Now, kids are often left with far too much freedom on the internet and exposed to things that are disturbing to even ponder.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, there will always be EVIL in this world or just plain old-fashioned JERKS. The WWW is just that&#8230; the &#8220;WORLD WIDE WEB&#8221; and that in and of itself has a lot of implications that require due diligence and maturity with regards to safety and maturity. The idiots who get on the internet without caring about installing firewalls and anti-virus programs are the ones usually responsible for spreading the bugs around.</p>
<p>I adore my computers because they really CAN save a lot of time and also, you get to have the chance to converse with people from all walks of life but people DO need to buck up and be careful. VERY careful.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Thorpe</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/culture-makes-the-internet-cruder-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-204070</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Thorpe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 20:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=46877#comment-204070</guid>
		<description>Have you thought that the reason few will watch a five minute video on the net is that the net or rather the PC because the net itself only carries data, is a lousy medium for watching video. It is also a lousy medium for reading a long, detailed newspaper or magazine article, a book or short story, listening to a piece of music for most things except what computers were designed to do which is process and present data.

On top of that many technologies that have become &quot;de facto standards&quot; on the net are not fit for purpose. Flash movies are fine for a two and a half minute cartoon embedded in a tiny window but awful for showing images that benefit from a full screen.

I could go on for ever with examples (but I am a computer pro from the days when it was recognised PC are just toys.

The fact is PC / Internet technology has ben mis sold just as mortgages, investments, enron, worldcom, hope n change and war on terror were mis sold.

We allowed a culture of untruth to develop, having been misled by some crackpot hippie pseudo philosophies from the 1960s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you thought that the reason few will watch a five minute video on the net is that the net or rather the PC because the net itself only carries data, is a lousy medium for watching video. It is also a lousy medium for reading a long, detailed newspaper or magazine article, a book or short story, listening to a piece of music for most things except what computers were designed to do which is process and present data.</p>
<p>On top of that many technologies that have become &#8220;de facto standards&#8221; on the net are not fit for purpose. Flash movies are fine for a two and a half minute cartoon embedded in a tiny window but awful for showing images that benefit from a full screen.</p>
<p>I could go on for ever with examples (but I am a computer pro from the days when it was recognised PC are just toys.</p>
<p>The fact is PC / Internet technology has ben mis sold just as mortgages, investments, enron, worldcom, hope n change and war on terror were mis sold.</p>
<p>We allowed a culture of untruth to develop, having been misled by some crackpot hippie pseudo philosophies from the 1960s.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Smith</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/culture-makes-the-internet-cruder-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-204041</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 19:18:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=46877#comment-204041</guid>
		<description>@Jeb 
Someone needs to go to 4chan.org &gt;.&gt; /d for diaper fetishes and /b if you want a desktop back ground of the world trade center flying into American Arlines Flight 11</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jeb<br />
Someone needs to go to 4chan.org &gt;.&gt; /d for diaper fetishes and /b if you want a desktop back ground of the world trade center flying into American Arlines Flight 11</p>
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		<title>By: G Alston</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/culture-makes-the-internet-cruder-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-204033</link>
		<dc:creator>G Alston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 18:49:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=46877#comment-204033</guid>
		<description>I said earlier -- &quot;It was the upper middle class and above who were able to afford buying and using these machines.&quot;

I should add that the less well off were able to buy machines in those days, but then again most of these were an admixture of younger, more tech connected, curious, etc.; all of which point to &quot;a bit more savvy than the rest&quot; and indicative of the basic &quot;g&quot; factor that is associated with overall success.
Essentially &quot;upper middle class&quot; and upper middle class (a.k.a. a bit smarter) quality of thought&quot; are roughly analagous for this argument.

For those of you unfamiliar with &quot;g&quot; the bottom line is that IQ is a predictor of success that is reasonably accurate. As a rule class and &quot;g&quot; are not necessarily synonymous (it&#039;s possible to see idiots in the upper classes) but there is a distinct enough correlation to state generalities. Thus you might see mechanics online in the 80&#039;s but these were the smarter ones looking for that competitive edge. And so on.

Overall the argument is that in the early days IQ and computer use were positively correlated but &quot;a PC in every home&quot; thinking changed this by definition.

I was hoping what I&#039;d written earlier was plain enough, but this is, after all, the internet... and... and maybe I&#039;d be better off spelling certain assumptions out, e.g. &quot;g&quot; factor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I said earlier &#8212; &#8220;It was the upper middle class and above who were able to afford buying and using these machines.&#8221;</p>
<p>I should add that the less well off were able to buy machines in those days, but then again most of these were an admixture of younger, more tech connected, curious, etc.; all of which point to &#8220;a bit more savvy than the rest&#8221; and indicative of the basic &#8220;g&#8221; factor that is associated with overall success.<br />
Essentially &#8220;upper middle class&#8221; and upper middle class (a.k.a. a bit smarter) quality of thought&#8221; are roughly analagous for this argument.</p>
<p>For those of you unfamiliar with &#8220;g&#8221; the bottom line is that IQ is a predictor of success that is reasonably accurate. As a rule class and &#8220;g&#8221; are not necessarily synonymous (it&#8217;s possible to see idiots in the upper classes) but there is a distinct enough correlation to state generalities. Thus you might see mechanics online in the 80&#8242;s but these were the smarter ones looking for that competitive edge. And so on.</p>
<p>Overall the argument is that in the early days IQ and computer use were positively correlated but &#8220;a PC in every home&#8221; thinking changed this by definition.</p>
<p>I was hoping what I&#8217;d written earlier was plain enough, but this is, after all, the internet&#8230; and&#8230; and maybe I&#8217;d be better off spelling certain assumptions out, e.g. &#8220;g&#8221; factor.</p>
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