Comments on: Critics Miss Benefits of ‘No Child Left Behind’ http://pjmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/ Thu, 16 Feb 2012 02:25:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: marcus http://pjmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/#comment-455921 marcus Sat, 28 Nov 2009 13:25:18 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/#comment-455921 Try teaching the damaged goods that are coming out of the schools after this "fine bill" does its damage. American and American education is in extreme peril. Children are now being taught to simply remember "facts" to regurgitate on tests which are virtually meaningless. They are not being taught how to process or use information to achieve answers. They expect to learn a fact that they can quickly forget in order to learn a new fact for the next test. I cannot speak for the curriculum in high schools, but since we are now seeing the product of the complete series of NCLB output, I can only speak for what I see in my classrooms which are college students who cannot comprehend readings or process facts. To hell with the theory - look at the output. Get your heads out of the clouds and look at the general population of students who are no longer achieving nearly what they were five years ago. Teaching to the test is bad. It has always been considered bad pedagogy even when educational trends came and went. Look at the proof, not your delusional politics. Keep politics out of this. This looked good for Bush to do, and his son's software company benefitted from it. The fact that it was continued was another assault on education. By the time I get the students, they are so damaged by not having to do anything that they cannot be helped to any great extent. They also have unrealistic expectations and inflated senses of self-worth. Try teaching the damaged goods that are coming out of the schools after this “fine bill” does its damage. American and American education is in extreme peril. Children are now being taught to simply remember “facts” to regurgitate on tests which are virtually meaningless. They are not being taught how to process or use information to achieve answers. They expect to learn a fact that they can quickly forget in order to learn a new fact for the next test. I cannot speak for the curriculum in high schools, but since we are now seeing the product of the complete series of NCLB output, I can only speak for what I see in my classrooms which are college students who cannot comprehend readings or process facts. To hell with the theory – look at the output. Get your heads out of the clouds and look at the general population of students who are no longer achieving nearly what they were five years ago.

Teaching to the test is bad. It has always been considered bad pedagogy even when educational trends came and went. Look at the proof, not your delusional politics. Keep politics out of this. This looked good for Bush to do, and his son’s software company benefitted from it. The fact that it was continued was another assault on education. By the time I get the students, they are so damaged by not having to do anything that they cannot be helped to any great extent. They also have unrealistic expectations and inflated senses of self-worth.

]]> By: Abbie http://pjmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/#comment-437631 Abbie Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:12:08 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/#comment-437631 As a high school student, I think that the No Child Left behind Act is an unjust Act. I don't agree with it because not every kid in school is willing to go to school and learn. My parents are teachers and I think that if kids don't want to learn and strive for a good education, then thats their fault. Let the kids that are willing to work succeed, and the kids that aren't fail. Taking tons of tests are not going to solve any educational problems. Taking the tests are a waste of time and I don't think that the public educational system should be punished because some kids did not score high enough on the tests. As a high school student, I think that the No Child Left behind Act is an unjust Act. I don’t agree with it because not every kid in school is willing to go to school and learn. My parents are teachers and I think that if kids don’t want to learn and strive for a good education, then thats their fault. Let the kids that are willing to work succeed, and the kids that aren’t fail. Taking tons of tests are not going to solve any educational problems. Taking the tests are a waste of time and I don’t think that the public educational system should be punished because some kids did not score high enough on the tests.

]]> By: Pajamas Media » The GOP Can Attract Black Voters — If They Can Stop Being Bigots http://pjmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/#comment-318257 Pajamas Media » The GOP Can Attract Black Voters — If They Can Stop Being Bigots Wed, 01 Jul 2009 08:28:48 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/#comment-318257 [...] president called “the soft bigotry of low expectations.” The educational reform law, No Child Left Behind, has the support of the NAACP, but is fiercely opposed by the teachers’ [...] [...] president called “the soft bigotry of low expectations.” The educational reform law, No Child Left Behind, has the support of the NAACP, but is fiercely opposed by the teachers’ [...]

]]> By: Cognitive Dissonance on NCLB at The Core Knowledge Blog http://pjmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/#comment-86727 Cognitive Dissonance on NCLB at The Core Knowledge Blog Mon, 04 Aug 2008 09:01:05 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/#comment-86727 [...] a line-by-line rebuttal on his blog explaining why this teacher is all wet.  Why there’s no evidence that curriculum narrowing is occuring under NCLB.   I’m sure it’ll make perfect [...] [...] a line-by-line rebuttal on his blog explaining why this teacher is all wet.  Why there’s no evidence that curriculum narrowing is occuring under NCLB.   I’m sure it’ll make perfect [...]

]]> By: Pajamas Media » A ‘To-Do’ List for the Next Education President http://pjmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/#comment-85384 Pajamas Media » A ‘To-Do’ List for the Next Education President Fri, 01 Aug 2008 07:49:35 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/#comment-85384 [...] Preserve transparency of outcomes (i.e. testing). As I’ve written at greater length here, when all the bogus slogans for No Child Left Behind are discounted, the law’s real benefit [...] [...] Preserve transparency of outcomes (i.e. testing). As I’ve written at greater length here, when all the bogus slogans for No Child Left Behind are discounted, the law’s real benefit [...]

]]> By: Peter http://pjmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/#comment-80137 Peter Wed, 23 Jul 2008 16:04:02 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/#comment-80137 > People complain that NCLB violates federalism. But states can get out of NCLB by simply refusing federal subsidies. That is a joke right? You don't have to do what I say, but if you don't I'll take your tax money and give it to someone else. Of course it violates Federalism in every meaningful way, just like every other Federal program that the states have to implement. And this comment: > The biggest problem teachers have is they don’t want accountability. Accountability is a great thing. But remember the consumer here is the kids, and the "purchaser" are the parents and responsible adults. Not the Federal Government. Schools need to be accountable to their "customers", not bloated bureaucrats. > People complain that NCLB violates federalism. But states can get out of NCLB by simply refusing federal subsidies.

That is a joke right? You don’t have to do what I say, but if you don’t I’ll take your tax money and give it to someone else. Of course it violates Federalism in every meaningful way, just like every other Federal program that the states have to implement.

And this comment:
> The biggest problem teachers have is they don’t want accountability.

Accountability is a great thing. But remember the consumer here is the kids, and the “purchaser” are the parents and responsible adults. Not the Federal Government. Schools need to be accountable to their “customers”, not bloated bureaucrats.

]]> By: Zion http://pjmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/#comment-63144 Zion Sat, 21 Jun 2008 16:10:56 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/#comment-63144 Many of the people commenting on here are obviously not educators who are in the trenches everyday. Have you ever looked up the definitions for assessment? For example, a child can pass the test and meet basic skills, but according to the definition, the child is almost illiterate, but they somehow meet basic skill requirements. And we are blindly proud of meeting AYP because we are more concerned about a symbol of learning (test score) rather than questioning what has actually been learned. Secondly, I cannot believe that a so-called Conservative Congress would allow politicians to interfere in education. Again, some people do not understand what it means to be conservative (hint: it does not mean God, Guns, and Gays). Politicians have no place in our school systems because they are there simply for votes, not for the well-being of our children. I wish that President Bush and some of the members of Congress would see even the so-called top tier students that have been created from the so-called No Child Left Behind Generation. They lack analytical skills because as one poster mentioned anyone can guess. The skills are not applicable outside of the classroom. And the list goes on. I am tired of non-educators being allowed to preach to teachers about what they need to do. What really makes me angry is that people like President Bush got their degree based on legacy programs, you know a synonym for affirmative action but people are willing to put up with it because it does not usually benefit women, minorities, or the poor. Many of the people commenting on here are obviously not educators who are in the trenches everyday. Have you ever looked up the definitions for assessment? For example, a child can pass the test and meet basic skills, but according to the definition, the child is almost illiterate, but they somehow meet basic skill requirements. And we are blindly proud of meeting AYP because we are more concerned about a symbol of learning (test score) rather than questioning what has actually been learned. Secondly, I cannot believe that a so-called Conservative Congress would allow politicians to interfere in education. Again, some people do not understand what it means to be conservative (hint: it does not mean God, Guns, and Gays). Politicians have no place in our school systems because they are there simply for votes, not for the well-being of our children. I wish that President Bush and some of the members of Congress would see even the so-called top tier students that have been created from the so-called No Child Left Behind Generation. They lack analytical skills because as one poster mentioned anyone can guess. The skills are not applicable outside of the classroom. And the list goes on. I am tired of non-educators being allowed to preach to teachers about what they need to do. What really makes me angry is that people like President Bush got their degree based on legacy programs, you know a synonym for affirmative action but people are willing to put up with it because it does not usually benefit women, minorities, or the poor.

]]> By: Gregory http://pjmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/#comment-43265 Gregory Thu, 22 May 2008 05:11:37 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/#comment-43265 Alice: So, why is it that Asian students are outscoring you lot, regardless of where they are (either in the USA or in actual Asian countries)? Fact of the matter is, people are stupid. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I'm stupid when it comes to picking up girls - absolutely clueless, and you could beat the techniques into me a thousand times and I'll never get it. I'm also stupid when it comes to certain aspects of time management. And oh boy, am I a completely and utterly stupid carpenter, should I ever try that. By and large, people are stupid about certain things; including what we consider to be a 'well-rounded education' - which in the 17th century would include Latin and rhetoric. Hence, it is not all about the 'love' of learning. Education serves a purpose, and is not just a simply defined term. So, what is education, and what is it for? Can you inculcate the love of learning into someone who's just not into learning? Others just plain hate reading, and no amount of exciting storylines is going to change that - so can you make them love reading? No, but you can <em>force</em> them to gain certain skillsets, and sink some underlying structures into their heads. The Asian mindset prizes education above everything else. Our early lives are wrapped around it. Not only are test results examined against the objective standard (Credit, Distinction, High D, etc etc etc), they are also measured against <em>subjective</em> standards ("How come your friend managed to score 85 and you only got 83?") Believe me, I once scored straight A's and my mother asked me, "Only 7 A's?" (of course, she didn't know there were only 7 subjects). You must understand that tests and examinations work best when <em>nobody</em> knows what will be included, forcing you to go through everything that has been taught. Yes, some people cannot have that kind of memory, and are best in the trades. In Australia, for instance, a bricklayer can get paid $1.25 to lay one brick, so over the year, you can earn some substantial amount of money. And there is no doubt that this kind of high-pressure environment is bad - some Japs and S'poreans kill themselves when they fail critical exams. The Japs even call these people 'ronin', which gives you an idea of how migh-pressure the environment is there. So. I'm not saying that the examination system is the be-all, end-all and cure-all. At the same time, I submit to you that it is crucial to have such systems in place nonetheless. Moderation in all things, to be sure. And believe me, even I can see the need for firefighters, police officers or G.I.s to pass certain tests before they start serving in their roles. Alice: So, why is it that Asian students are outscoring you lot, regardless of where they are (either in the USA or in actual Asian countries)?

Fact of the matter is, people are stupid. And I don’t mean that in a bad way. I’m stupid when it comes to picking up girls – absolutely clueless, and you could beat the techniques into me a thousand times and I’ll never get it. I’m also stupid when it comes to certain aspects of time management. And oh boy, am I a completely and utterly stupid carpenter, should I ever try that.

By and large, people are stupid about certain things; including what we consider to be a ‘well-rounded education’ – which in the 17th century would include Latin and rhetoric. Hence, it is not all about the ‘love’ of learning. Education serves a purpose, and is not just a simply defined term.

So, what is education, and what is it for? Can you inculcate the love of learning into someone who’s just not into learning? Others just plain hate reading, and no amount of exciting storylines is going to change that – so can you make them love reading? No, but you can force them to gain certain skillsets, and sink some underlying structures into their heads.

The Asian mindset prizes education above everything else. Our early lives are wrapped around it. Not only are test results examined against the objective standard (Credit, Distinction, High D, etc etc etc), they are also measured against subjective standards (“How come your friend managed to score 85 and you only got 83?”) Believe me, I once scored straight A’s and my mother asked me, “Only 7 A’s?” (of course, she didn’t know there were only 7 subjects).

You must understand that tests and examinations work best when nobody knows what will be included, forcing you to go through everything that has been taught. Yes, some people cannot have that kind of memory, and are best in the trades. In Australia, for instance, a bricklayer can get paid $1.25 to lay one brick, so over the year, you can earn some substantial amount of money. And there is no doubt that this kind of high-pressure environment is bad – some Japs and S’poreans kill themselves when they fail critical exams. The Japs even call these people ‘ronin’, which gives you an idea of how migh-pressure the environment is there.

So. I’m not saying that the examination system is the be-all, end-all and cure-all. At the same time, I submit to you that it is crucial to have such systems in place nonetheless. Moderation in all things, to be sure.

And believe me, even I can see the need for firefighters, police officers or G.I.s to pass certain tests before they start serving in their roles.

]]> By: Anonymous http://pjmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/#comment-42827 Anonymous Wed, 21 May 2008 15:45:53 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/#comment-42827 Some of you agree with NCLB and some of you don't. I think we can all conclude that education in America is NOT improving. The presidential candidates are saying that NCLB needs revising or to be simply overhauled. Do you find it disturbing that not a single one has a concrete plan to change the face of education in America? I think NCLB is an important factor in determing the future of education in America. I think our candidates need to sit down and have a public debate. We all need to be concerned about education in America as the success of our country hinges on the quality of education our children receive. It's not getting any better and our future won't either if we don't step up to the plate and do something. Some of you agree with NCLB and some of you don’t. I think we can all conclude that education in America is NOT improving. The presidential candidates are saying that NCLB needs revising or to be simply overhauled. Do you find it disturbing that not a single one has a concrete plan to change the face of education in America? I think NCLB is an important factor in determing the future of education in America. I think our candidates need to sit down and have a public debate. We all need to be concerned about education in America as the success of our country hinges on the quality of education our children receive. It’s not getting any better and our future won’t either if we don’t step up to the plate and do something.

]]> By: Alice Roddy http://pjmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/#comment-42680 Alice Roddy Wed, 21 May 2008 11:28:05 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/critics-miss-benefits-of-no-child-left-behind/#comment-42680 Gregory, where we differ is that you believe one learns through fear of punishment, be it by cane or tests. I believe that people learn best by interest and passion. I believe that learning is an integral part of human nature, that individuals seek meaningfulness. Young children show this drive to learn when they learn to walk, to talk, and in every way to grow. Teaching factoids without context deprives children of meaning. Using rewards such as stickers or grades as motivation distracts children from the inherent pleasure of learning. Your schooling experience was as it was and you see that as the only education possible. When adults like you see education as essentially a bitter medicine that must be taken, then that is what it will be. But there are those of us who follow a different path. Gregory, where we differ is that you believe one learns through fear of punishment, be it by cane or tests. I believe that people learn best by interest and passion. I believe that learning is an integral part of human nature, that individuals seek meaningfulness. Young children show this drive to learn when they learn to walk, to talk, and in every way to grow.
Teaching factoids without context deprives children of meaning. Using rewards such as stickers or grades as motivation distracts children from the inherent pleasure of learning.
Your schooling experience was as it was and you see that as the only education possible. When adults like you see education as essentially a bitter medicine that must be taken, then that is what it will be. But there are those of us who follow a different path.

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