CPAC: Consciously Providing Ammo to Critics
The writers of The Daily Show, Colbert Report, and Saturday Night Live (although I’m not convinced they’ve even had writers lately) can have February 18-20, 2010, off. The hosts can handle it themselves. On those dates, the jokes will practically write themselves as the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) takes place — co-sponsored by the John Birch Society. Every liberal commentator needs to send a thank-you note to CPAC’s organizers for that monumentally stupid decision.
By having the John Birch Society sponsor it, CPAC can guarantee that 90% of the coverage regarding the conference will relate to JBS’ oh-my-god-look-a-conspiracy attitude rather than the heavy-hitters and rising stars of conservatism and libertarianism that speak there. Instead of focusing on politics, reporters will ask attendees for their response to the JBS controversy and will ask organizers whether they are in such financial distress that they had to embrace a fringe group for support.
Here’s a little history on JBS for those of you that may not understand why this issue is going to overshadow any agenda pursued at the conference. The organization was founded in 1958 by Robert Welch, a businessman concerned about communist infiltration of the U.S. It is understandable why people would initially be drawn into his fold, given advances internationally by hostile communist powers and their intense espionage efforts in the West. However, Welch, apparently believing in the supreme competence of government, could not fathom that the U.S. government failed to halt such advances unless it secretly sympathized with the enemy’s success. A conspiracy theory that the European and American governments were secretly pursuing a socialist one-world government to merge our societies with that of the communists was born.
William F. Buckley Jr. was one of the most prominent critics of JBS, aware that its paranoia undermined efforts by the political right to give more attention to the menacing threat posed by the communists. Buckley wrote that Welch “said Dwight D. Eisenhower was a ‘dedicated, conscious agent of the communist conspiracy,’ and that the government of the United States was ‘under operational control of the Communist Party.’ It was, he said in the summer of 1961, ‘50-70 percent’ communist-controlled.”
Today, many decent people are still part of JBS, some of whom don’t fully accept its theories. They are anti-globalist, favor a U.S. withdrawal from the United Nations, are socially conservative, and want to dramatically reduce spending and the size of government. With the Republican Party viewed by many conservatives as having betrayed its principles, it’s not a surprise that a group would be embraced as long as it is upholding conservative ideals, even if it has some wacky theories.
Sign me up!!
And like , who, Ryan, would YOU reccomend? The Young Republicans? Someone with their head up the Republican Party’s butt? The repugnicans have sold us out! If you refuse to see the UN is bad for America, you are already gone.. . I am not a Bircher, but I would rather deal with them then most of the RINOs(other than DeMint) out there.
The Conservative Political Action Conference has committed a terrible blunder. It must be marginalized immediately. No serious conservative can support its decision to co-host a major event with the John Birch Society. What were the CPAC leaders thinking? Conscious conspiracies rarely exist in America—especially those supposedly involving a transfer of power from generation to generation. Usually individuals collude together due to their shared utopian values and thirst for power. Tacit understandings underpin their close cooperation. That is normally the beginning and the end of it.
The Birchers fail to make important distinctions. They often confuse naiveté with the willingness to deliberately betray the United States. Harry Truman was convinced, for instance, that Alger Hiss was a victim of slander by right-wing extremists. This is in no way, shape, or form, evidence that he was a secret member of the Communist conspiracy. No, Truman was simply too trusting of someone who took full advantage of his gullibility. Hiss was wrongly perceived as a genuinely nice young man possessing the best intentions.
After several decades of seeing ‘US OUT of the UN’ signs, I do have to say that the Birchers seem more wise and make lot more sense than the people arguing in favor of financing those who are working to undermine and diminish the United States.
I don’t know a whole lot about Birchers, but Mr. Mauro sure needs to make a better case if he expects to convince me that they are evil to the point that they be denied participation in the political process.
“If you refuse to see the UN is bad for America, you are already gone.”
One does not need to be a member of the John Birch society to realize that that our membership in the United Nations may cause more harm that good. We made a terrible mistake in allowing dictatorships like the Soviet Union to join. Membership should have been restricted to established democracies. THE JBS fails to understand that the UN is not comprised of conscious conspirators. It is simply an organization that tends to attract utopian thinkers and those who enjoying guilt tripping overly sentimental and trusting Americans.
The communist conspiracy of JBS as presented is absurd, but if the GOP wishes to gain ground over the radical Left which has hijacked the Democratic party, they MUST come up with a narrative explaining why the Left is winning the war in the West. Long before the apotheosis of Obama the Left laid the groundwork for His arrival, and the Republicans seem complicit. Both Parties have been willing to endlessly expand the federal mandate, thereby shrinking and imperiling liberty.
The net result is this: JBS at least owns a narrative which anticipated and explicates our current predicament. Republicans ARE complicit in the rise of Euro-style communistic governance in America.
FYI, I am a lifelong registered Democrat who believes radical anti-American transnationalist commy/neo-socialists have hijacked my Party and America. They also have utterly compromized our Media and the Academy. There HAS been a cabal of like-minded radicals gradually seizing these all-important levers of power over the entire span of my life. While I reject fevered JBS conspiracies about how this came to pass, in retrospect, the Right has done too little to counter these trends. The Right has played softball while the Left has waged WAR. The Right must get ahead of this curve and stop playing defense. It needs resonant narratives which compete directly against the Left’s effective lie-based narrative. They need a storyline which addresses our predicament without resorting to paranoia, otherwise all will be lost.
The JBS was correct on warning against selling off the USA’s manufacturing infrastructure to communist China – everyone else was wrong.
This article reminds me of the statement “Some people blame everything on Satan while others blame nothing on him.” The reality is in between. While the Bircher’s may see a conspiracy behind every corner there are too many who see nothing. The fact is, during the 1930s through the 1950s, the U.S. government had a significant number of communists wreaking havoc within its halls. While Truman and Eisenhower certainly were not communists, they, as another commentor states, were much too naivé about their communist enemies.
Now, before all of our eyes, this current administration and the majority in Congress are lining up to join in a “global” climate initiative replete with “global” governng bodies, wealth transfers, stultifying regulation, a basic loss of individual freedoms and a diminution of American sovereignty. Isn’t that the communist agenda? Or am I just a stupid conspiracist?
This is totally unbelievable. CPAC actually joining with JBS!!! What the h*ll are they thinking? Regardless of what we may think, the message we send to those who are on the fence or are looking for a good reason or place to go to escape the leftist Democrat take-over of our government will not find much reassurance in the realization that CPAC has chosen JBS as a partner. The message and perception of JBS has become so distorted, deserved or not, that it has no credibility outside its membership.
I am a conservative but will not support this inane, stupid, shot-in-the-foot move that will most certainly destroy the message before it is delivered. How can anyone be this idiotic to expect credibility by wearing the same tin-foil hats as JBS? It will be interesting to see how Coulter, Hannity, Limbaugh, and others react to the alliance. If they support it, goodbye conservatism, hello irrelevancy.
After reading Witness by Whittaker Chambers, I believe that the government is full of communist sympathizers. You site Katrina and Iraq and I counter with the public school systems and ACLU. The left is very effective. Prophets always look a little nutty. I have not studied the John Birch group or am I defending them, but the left is definitely winning and using the government to get there.
“Isn’t that the communist agenda? Or am I just a stupid conspiracist?”
Communists advocate a violent overthrow of a society’s institutions. It would much more accurate to describe these folks as Woodrow Wilson and Franklin D. Roosevelt style Progressives. They are in love with their own perceived wonderfulness and academic credentials. Checks and balances as devised by our Founding Fathers are senseless regarding such benevolent and intelligent individuals. They mean, after all, to do us good! Only rather disgusting people would even consider dissenting.
One is often better off dealing with a criminal who consciously desires to rob you. God help you when benevolent dictators insist on making your life better—whether you want them to do so or not. They can be far more dangerous.
#6. Morton Doodslag
“The Right has played softball while the Left has waged WAR.
“The Right must get ahead of this curve and stop playing defense.
“It needs resonant narratives which compete directly against the Left’s effective lie-based narrative. They need a storyline which addresses our predicament without resorting to paranoia, otherwise all will be lost.”
YES!
If anything has dashed my small hopes that Conservatives — or Republicans had a chance to regain power and take this country out of the hands of potential despots who would ruin the last bits of it and destroy any chances for recovery, this is it.
I’m shaken to my depths by this news.
Could anything be more stupid? The Left has given the Right a superb gift by their radical, sleazy and unpopular behavior. So now the Right is going to toss that gift in the rubbish bin. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.
When Republicans finally had control of Congress — finally — what did they do with it?
IT’S THEIR OWN FAULT that we have what we have today BECAUSE THEY THREW IT ALL AWAY. Instead of taking the opportunity to bring the nation together, to demonstrate what good government could accomplish — they behaved like a bunch of grubby opportunistic politicians and lost the faith of the country — deservedly so. The unpopularity of the Iraq War wasn’t enough to remove the Right from power. It was the distrust. Now we have Obama-Pelosi-Reid because of who?
Now that there’s a second chance in the wind — NO THANKS TO THEIR OWN BEHAVIOR — THEY’RE GOING TO THROW IT AWAY OUT OF SHEER STUPIDITY.
That old saying, a People Get the Government They Deserve — Maybe there just aren’t any leaders coming out of this society that would demonstrate otherwise. It’s good reason to just give up and stick my head in the sand.
I don’t know and I don’t care what the John Birch Society stands for. It’s name has been successfully slandered — rightly or wrongly. Just the name of the org sparks fear and inspires derision in the hearts of most of the country. If it’s unjustly, then that’s a shame — but it’s the fact. It will not only give the Left real good ammunition — it will lose us the election which is being handed to us. It’s the reality that must be accepted and dealt with — as it is.
Isn’t there a glimmer of an idea that this is going to be a fight — perhaps the LAST fight for liberty in America??? This fight has to be waged with all we’ve got — the Left is also going to pull out all its wiles.
How the #&!^ am I going to debate anyone on the fence, when what I’ll hear back is that if the Right has chosen The John Birch Society to represent it — they don’t want to hear anything else?
If the Right is going to ignore reality — we’re going to lose everything — in spite of the fact that it is almost in our hands.
The CPAC sponsors page is at http://www.cpac.org/sponsors.html.
I count 70 sponsors, of which JBS is only one.
Maybe people haven’t noticed, but our country is facing a serious national emergency. It’s not going to be enough to gather just the pure and holy, we need every body we can get, and that may well not be enough. Race-based organizations like the KKK, Aryan Nations, etc., are out, but a few conspiracy theorists who otherwise are on board with the conservative agenda are more than welcome.
Also, most of the mainstream media is hugely biased against us. If it’s not JBS, it will be something else. They will not portray CPAC in a positive light no matter what, so we should stop trying for what we will never get. We cannot let the left, including the MSM, dictate to us who our allies are.
JBS has nothing to do with the perception of CPAC. Most people aren’t aware of the association, and even if they are they don’t understand where it connects and disconnects to the mess we know as the conservative movement.
What gives CPAC it’s inbred hilarity is the miasma spewed forth by its speakers. That’s the difference between liberals and conservatives: liberals need a reason to hate something or someone – actions, words, decisions. Conservatives hate as a matter of nature.
I think CPAC should have invited Van Jones to do the keynote address, extending the palm of peace as it were. Reservations on the dais ought to have been made for Bill Ayers,[ a short speech on the wonders of modern chemistry], and various other luminaries from the good old Chicago days including the more “energetic” socialists who spotted raw talent early on in the person of The O.
This would earn kudos from our friends in the media, kudos that would last for at least 1/2 a news cycle, one must grovel for whatever PR crumbs that come from on high when one doesn’t advocate what are mysteriously called “progressive” politics.
Force, coercion, immense deficits, chronic & pathological lying, taxes, utter contempt for the American people, the dollar being converted to wallpaper, all those things that make a nation great and identify the cognescenti as progressive.
Yes, the stain of 1958 must not be forgotten and the ring of liberalism must be kissed, the wrath of the mighty avoided, and the intelligence and morality of SNL and Jon Stewart payed homage.
CPAC has just marginalized itself by not disassociating with the lunatic fringe — the JBS.
Conservatives cannot complain about the Democrats’ association with Code Pink and others of their ilk while embracing organizations like the JBS.
Thanks for noting this. The ghost of Buckley is often summoned to bless such idiotic know-nothings as Sarah Palin, but its quite obvious that he would have reserved nothing but scorn for that talentless media creation.
Do you really think that CPAC would be portrayed differently in the media if JBS was marginalized? The visceral hatred of opposition is what drives the left. If there is any sort of dissent towards a left-wing-theocratic (global warming has been declared a religion in the UK)-authoritarian state, the Left calls for the jackboots and torches. Only when CPAC disbands (or is outlawed) will the left unhand its rhetorical bludgeon.
This is no defense of the JBS, it is a warning that liberals think you are evil precisely because of you disagree with them.
And just how well has the Republican party done with the moderates? Please explain giving concrete examples.
The more we see of the Leftist Obama Administration, their autocratic ways, their quasi criminal behavior, and their apologists in the media, the more clearly the John Birch Society, while not entirely correct, looks like an oracle.
Look, there IS a communist conspiracy.
How many people conspire together to make the US socialist? Plenty, its not like they do so secretly. In your shunning of the JBS you end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater and harm all of us. I used to the the JBS was silly, but recent events have made me see they seem quite right in a lot of ways.
I also have to agree with mac. Its not like CPAC would be seen differently if they shunned the JBS.
In the words of a country singer, “Lets give them something to talk about.”
Listen,MAURON,If the dems have no problems with Ayres, Wright, Sharpton,and the neo stalinists in the white house,we should have NO problem whatsoever with the Birchers.Stop bothering the conservative resistance,and use your talents to help re-elect McCain and others as politically naive and successful as he.Better still:try and get a job as the second pseudoconservative token at the NY SLIMES. BTW: Read Mark Taibbi,and John Crudele on the TARP bailout to see whether this nation is the victim of a conspiracy hatched by the demtard party,and its blackfsce ventriloquist’s dummy, and its Charlie Mccarthy:Golman Sachs!
Many see these loony parties and movements as not so relevant. I disagree. If we look over the last 50 to 100 years these fringe movements and organizations have actually provided the main political parties with new ideas. The voting rights act, health care reform, environmental legislation, more national parks, tax reform all originally started as fringe party issues. While it would be dangerous for these organizations to assume any real power as in the Bush administration, their thoughts are useful for our vibrant democracy. Good Luck to them !
Will Buckley’s successors at National Review speak out as he did?
This is just absolutely stupid. Every prominent conservative planning on attending that should immediately withdraw themselves from such a fiasco.
Excuse me Ryan-ACORN BILL AYERS JEREMIAH WRIGHT VAN JONES ASS SUNSTIEN JOHN HOLDREN MARK LLOYD DAVID THE ASSHOLEROD who do you think these people ARE? THEY ARE COMMUNISTS anti american freedom haters. We need all the friends we can get. By the way Ryan-seems to me the Birchers have been RIGHT all along. Sort of like Joe McCarthy-seems to me McCarthy has been RIGHT. The Birchers “image” is brought to you by the same COMMUNISTS in the media who REFUSE to tell America about BILL AYERS AND JEREMIAH WRIGHT. By the same people who HIDE the Dr Kevorkian “healthcare” plan. By the same people whove lied to and brainwashed the lazy. By the same people who labeled Gen Petraeus “betray us”. You seem to be infected with the Mcshame diesease. Be “nice” to those who hate you. Well guess what-THAT NEVER HAS WORKED AND NEVER WILL.
People like Buckley and Russell Kirk disavowed the John Birch Society for good reason, and they did it at a time when the Conservative movement was much more marginalized than it is today.
It really does not bother some of the commenters here that the head of the JBS has called Judaism a “dead and deadly religion,” or that the JBS upholds essentially the same historical conspiracy theories as the Hamas Charter. Along with an acceptance of some of the veiled or not-so-veiled racism of the more unhinged attacks on Barack Obama, stuff like this suggests an imminent descent into political dementia.
It also suggests that political irrelevance has long since been arrived at.
Ann Coulter has addressed in detail the communist infiltration of the American government in one of her books. The infiltration has reached the highest levels of government, with the oval office now occupied by a one world government communist that also happens to be inelgible for the office because of his not being a natural born citizen of this county. The Constitution is being ignored by this illegal administration and this will not stop until we remove this corrupt regime from power by WHATEVER MEANS AVAILABLE.
Sedition in the defense of liberty is not a crime fellow patriots.
As a strong supporter of Gov. Sarah Palin, I’m beginning to think she should pass on CPAC. It is basically a country-club easterner event with too many rich kids and not enough Joe the Plumbers and Tito the Builders. I say pass on this one.
Besides, Sarah will be the main speaker at the national Tea Party conference in Nashville on Feb. 4 thru 6.
I seem to recall we gave billions in armaments to the Soviets while they were fighting our mutual enemy, Hitler’s Germany. Sometimes, you take all the help you can get, even if you’re not exactly ready to declare yourselves best friends for life.
Perhaps you think I’m being overly dramatic, but this country bears little resemblance to the one I grew up in. These deficits cannot be wished away and will impoverish our children and grandchildren. The medical advances we will not have due to health care “reform” are going to lead to needless suffering and early demise for many.
Compared with this, you think associating with people with whom you do not agree in all respects is a problem. I think your priorities are misplaced.
MarkD,
“I seem to recall we gave billions in armaments to the Soviets while they were fighting our mutual enemy, Hitler’s Germany. Sometimes, you take all the help you can get, even if you’re not exactly ready to declare yourselves best friends for life.”
I don’t know about you, but I think it’s pretty clear with hindsight that it was a huge mistake to do so. A lot of the biggest problems we’ve faced in the past fifty-sixty years stem directly from the decision to keep the Soviets afloat during WWII.
If it requires the support of ‘fellow travellers’ to get conservative politicians back into power, frankly, I’d rather see us lose rather than us win and end up indebted to groups like the JBS.
Believe me, we don’t need CPAC for ammo:
http://mediamatters.org/research/200912220009
My little Xmas gift to you. Enjoy.
“Compared with this, you think associating with people with whom you do not agree in all respects is a problem. I think your priorities are misplaced.”
The John Birch Society is very dangerous because it unwittingly misdirects attention from the real threat. I am utterly convinced that there is rarely any such thing as a conscious conspiracy. We should not be combating make believe ghosts. Our enemies are mushy headed, overly sentimental Franklin D. Roosevelt styled Progressives. These benevolent dictators intend to take over our lives in order to save us. The odds are overwhelming that the late Ted Kennedy occasionally burst into tears over his efforts to help the poor and disenfranchised. It never really dawned on him that he caused far more harm than good.
Just say no the the JBS. They may well have been correct on a number of points, but they are nuts.
“I don’t know about you, but I think it’s pretty clear with hindsight that it was a huge mistake to do so. A lot of the biggest problems we’ve faced in the past fifty-sixty years stem directly from the decision to keep the Soviets afloat during WWII.”
Nothing could be further from the truth. The number one threat of that era was Hitler’s Nazi regime. We were compelled to treat the Soviet Union as the enemy of my enemy who is temporarily now my friend. Roughly 450,000 American soldiers, sailors, and airmen, died in WWII. The Soviets lost 13 million! That is over 26 times more than we lost. Thank God we had the Soviets on our side.
13. tom: is spot on. As is 18. mac: With or without the Birchers libs will dump on CPAC for all its worth. ‘Cause that’s what liberals do. Yes, Birchers are paranoid. Yes, sometimes they’re right. But their most prominent logical fallacy has always been in the “everything is a conspiracy” mindset. There are conspiracies. There are also coincidences. That they so often jump to conspiratorial assumptions too quickly with such flimsy evidence makes them more a belief system than a political philosophy, imo. And they do themselves no credit over the years by never really dealing with Ann Rands 1964 critique in Playboy.
36. Yes, but the smart thing would have been to listen to Patton and march right into Moscow- nuking Russian targets as necessary. At the very least, Truman should’ve told Stalin- Yalta’s off; don’t mess with us or we’ll sick the 3rd Army on you, and nuke you if that takes too long.
The New American Magazine published by the JBS should be read be every freedom loving American. Visit http://www.thenewamerican.com/ to see and learn for yourself about this organization. Stop the smears!
I am a former member of JBS. I really don’t care what Jon Stewart [fake name] or SNL [owned by GE] think. It seems the events of the last 50 years show them to be more correct than not. You have two ways to view history: the history by accident theory or the conspiracy theory. Remember, conspiracy is two or more people getting together to plan something. Personally, I don’t think the people with the real power allow things to happen by accident. Everybody doesn’t have to be in on what is going on, they just need to do thier little piece. Meanwhile, the Safe School Czar is teaching your kids how to ‘fist’ sex. But there is no conspiracy.
JBS! I thought that it was a joke, OMG, the republicans are really going down the toilet. I mean what is going on? i thought the sarah palin cult was bad enough, but this is just so sad. the truth is that the republicans are in an even worse state than the democrats following the carter presidency.
“liberals need a reason to hate something or someone – actions, words, decisions. Conservatives hate as a matter of nature.”
Projecting much?
“Liberals” and “reason” do not belong in a sentence together. Liberals don’t reason at all- they simply throw tantrums like the mental fourteen-year-olds they are.
David Thomson,
“Nothing could be further from the truth. The number one threat of that era was Hitler’s Nazi regime. We were compelled to treat the Soviet Union as the enemy of my enemy who is temporarily now my friend.”
The enemy of my enemy is my enemy’s enemy, no more. When two thoroughly repulsive idealogies are doing battle, why should you take sides?
It’s hard to quantify evil. Was Stalin more acceptable because he was equally willing to kill and enslave everyone under his rule equally, rather than just specific groups?
myth buster,
“Yes, but the smart thing would have been to listen to Patton and march right into Moscow- nuking Russian targets as necessary.”
At the very least, this. Moscow was within range of “Silverplate” B-29s flying out of bases in England, and the Russians had nothing capable of intercepting them. The Soviet army was scraping the bottom of the barrel for manpower reserves and had become heavily dependent on Lend-Lease supplies (high octane aviation fuel, tinned food, spare parts for their American-made trucks, etc.).
It’s easy to look back with hindsight and posit what-if situations, but I mantain that WWII was winnable without giving a bit of assistance to the Soviets, and that the postwar world would have been much improved by doing so.
The roughly 90,000 Americans killed by Soviet-supplied weapons during the Korean and Vietnam wars, for starters.
Honestly It sounds like tons of fun!
“but I mantain that WWII was winnable without giving a bit of assistance to the Soviets”
Could you possibly point to even one WWII historian who agrees with you? Where in heaven’s name are you getting this stuff? The Nazis were far more of a threat in the late 1930s than the Soviet Union. Hitler might have even won had he not invaded Poland prematurely. He only needed at the start of the war another 40 to 50 U-boats and Great Britain would have been virtually defenseless. Once again, I must remind you that the Soviets lost an estimated 13 million soldiers. The Soviets thankfully forced Hitler to send millions of his troops to the Eastern Front. A possible early Nazi victory would have also allowed that evil regime time to invent advanced weaponry to attack America directly.
Wm F Buckley was right about the JBS. JBS-ers are almost as demented as Ron Paulies. And I have no time or interest in “the paranoid style”. It is a failed approach to the electorate which leads conservatism to marginalization and defeat–like the “Birfers”. It is the opposite of Ronald Reagan’s positive and uplifting conservative message.
But as I read the JBS news release (below) it seems that they just bought booth space at CPAC. “Cosponsorship” is just a fancy word for “we bought a booth.” Natch the JBS is trying to hype it, but that doesn’t make it any bigger than it is.
CPAC sells booth space to lots of groups and should not have to exclude freaks like the Paulies or the Birchers from buying a booth. This is nothing compared to the whack jobs to be found hawking conspiracy theories from “cosponsorship” booths at liberal conferences.
From JBS news release . . .
“APPLETON, WIS.—December 15, 2009—The John Birch Society announces it is cosponsoring the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) 2010, to be held in Washington DC, Feb. 18-20.
“JBS will have a double booth with half dedicated to offering educational and promotional materials and the other half housing a TV studio that will stream live video….”
http://www.jbs.org/press-room/5768-the-john-birch-society-announces-cpac-2010-cosponsorship
“Could you possibly point to even one WWII historian who agrees with you?”
I can’t think of a single credible historian who is willing to engage in speculuation on alternate history. Too many variables. It’s a pastime for armchair enthusiasts.
“The Nazis were far more of a threat in the late 1930s than the Soviet Union.”
I do not see how this is relevant, if the discussion is on American aid to the Soviets (1941-1945). Also I’m not sure if Finland, Poland, Latvia, Estonia, or Bessarabia would agree with your assessment.
“Once again, I must remind you that the Soviets lost an estimated 13 million soldiers. The Soviets thankfully forced Hitler to send millions of his troops to the Eastern Front. A possible early Nazi victory would have also allowed that evil regime time to invent advanced weaponry to attack America directly.”
As has been pointed out, the Soviets were able to halt the Germans in 1942, before much in the way of Lend-Lease aid had made it to them. Do you really believe that the Germans would have pushed all the way to the Urals if it hadn’t been for Allied aid? Or that the Soviet government would at some point have collapsed and gone to the negotiating table without it? Because I find both outcomes very unlikely.
Instead, the probable result as I see it is that the Germans could eventually take Moscow, but the Soviet government just would relocate to somewhere out of reach, and the eastern front would eventually dissolve into a very bloody stalemate when the Germans advance beyond the capability of their supply system to support deep attacks.
I’d ask in return – what historians agree with you that the Soviet Union would have lost to or negotiated peace with the Nazi Germans if it hadn’t been for American aid?
“JBS! I thought that it was a joke, OMG”
And the trolls keep rolling along……..
In all this discussion it has been forgotten why the JBS was so controversial. Anyone can hold an extreme opinion but the JBS founder advocated using Communist’s tactics such as subversion, lying propaganda, front groups and infiltration to advance the societies goals. Fighting fire with fire he would have called it but it led others to mistrust the JBS.
The CPAC is dropping it’s so called conservatism and excepting gays into it’s fold. I doubt that the JBS will sponsor this event, once they find this out. The JBS has been right more than they have been wrong in their predictions.
42. Bohemond:
Good tantrum.
Whoever has a sincere interest in determining what the Soviet were doing in USA while we were sending them the materiels necessary to fight Hitler, look no further than the testimony of Elizabeth Bentley and the FBI report that was built around her disclosures in 1945-6. It’s on the internet, as is a lot of House and Senate committee testimony. JBS is infected with lunacy, this is true, but it may also have been compromised by Communist agents. It’s also well known now that the first “CIA killed JFK” books were financed by the KGB. It’s also probable that a lot of the “conspiracy theories” made of complete garbage are helped along and encouraged by Kremlin money. The key is semantic manipulation. Actually, the key is that people are ignorant and don’t put too much effort into their opinions.
The UN government was created by other governments, and we wonder why they overspend and can’t get anything done. I say get out of the UN!
Based on your short synopsis it sounds as though the founder of the John Birch Society was prescient.
What the JBS REALLY might be struggling to tell us if it had the ability:
http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2008/01/how-i-stopped-believing-in-democracy.html
Okay, lots of bashers about the JBS, but I say you take your friends where you find them. The Left is winning big time; the Democratics of course are the socialists, government-can-do-it-all (and take-it-all as well), but the GOP is no friend of liberty either (Bush: Medicare drug deal; 2 wars, and more).
Maybe the JBS has its baggage, but from what I can see this so-called baggage has been saddled onto this group. What the group itself says is hardly disputable.
The country is not where it should be. Are government officials stupid all across the board?
You fail to mention that
CPAC has MANY sponsors to help defray the costs of the conference…and who really cares what the liberal media says? They fabricate on a daily basis so why would anything regarding a conservative conference be any different? There are gay conservative groups that will be sponsoring…think they’ll be joked about? There are different levels of fiscal and moral conservatism…and most of us know that to be successful we don’t all have to agree on everything. Liberals do their best to point out our differences simply to divide and conquer.
Conservatives should be able to do a lot better than inviting tin foil hat nutters. Cant they find some people with intellectual heft that can speak intelligently about limited government, personal freedom and fiscal conservatism?
The left is practically trying to hand over Congress to the GOP in 2010, and the GOP is still going to find a way to mess this one up too.
“‘50-70 percent’ communist-controlled”
Sounds about right. Have you never read the 10 goals of the Communist Manifesto? How is our congress NOT fulfilling these goals?
But thanks for scoring a safety for the other team, Ryan.
“CPAC has made a major PR mistake in forming this alliance with JBS. It won’t be long until the media puts all those taking part on the defensive, forcing the organizers to spend precious time explaining this move.”
Please.
You think perhaps, if CPAC drops the Birchers there will be good press and peace and harmony shall rule the airwaves about conservatives? MSNBC will spread nothing but good conservative cheer?
Good Lord, worrying about what those MM dolts say is so 1990s.
I thought PJM was part of the New Media. Must be Retro Day.
Whats next? Are we going to invite people that think chemtrails are real and that we are all just days away from going to FEMA camps in white UN railcars?
Maybe Joe McCarthy was right…
http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article2539.html
It is unclear whether the JBS is a co-sponsor or simply having a booth at the event. The JBS claims that they are a co-sponsor, but if you look at http://www.cpac.org/sponsors.html and http://www.cpac.org/exhibitors.html, the JBS is listed as an exhibitor, but it is not even in the list of sponsors. Did the author of the article actually contact CPAC?
This joint has more John Bolton masturbators than any other forum anywhere. What’s the attraction? His moustache?
These political groups and action committees have been around for ages. The latest, the Tea Parties, have brought about massive rallies, tons of letters and faxes, millions of email and phone calls. And what have they achieved? Nothing!
You can have all these great movements, but until the population becomes educated enough to understand what is happening, the foundations of our country and the Constitution and Bill of Rights, nothing will change.
I constantly think about the TV interviews where thousands of people were standing in line, waiting for their Obama check! They did not even know that there were no checks.
Or when interviews are done on college campuses, where they ask law students how many justice’s are on the Supreme court and they don’t know. Other college students asked
Who’s our Vice President” and they don’t know.
Or people that believe that health care is a right, listed in the Constitution. Even Pelosi fails on that one!
Our country has been “dumbed” down to where despots, dictators and tyranny can now rule without fear. Corruption is the normal way of doing business. Congress no longer represents the people, Congressmen and women and Senators believe they have lifetime jobs.
They have changed representing the citizens into a “job”, where the primary concern is to look out for their own best interest, both while in office and once they leave.
The people of this nation have been lazy, failing to educate themselves, failing to educate their children, relying on the government to provide rather than face the struggle to do it themselves.
No political party, no movement, no “action” committee will change this country now. The time for those was years ago.
…so do people actually think that between Bush & Obama we do not NOW have a more socialist govt in line with European socialism?
then why are so many people up in anger over all of the socialist garbage now writ in stone, starting with FDR, continued by LBJ, Ted Kennedy, Carter, Bush 2 and his “compassionate conservatism” garbage, and now Obama with his socialist national healthcare bill & state-owned banks & car companies, that thanks to folks like the left-wing (and some “do nothing” right-wing) news outlets, WILL BECOME LAW FOREVER, and simply throw this once great capitalistic country down the socialist third world rabbit hole sewer.
really this is pathetic that the investigative journalists & pundits dont go after the socialist democrats (& republicans such as Snowe et all), that are destroying this country with debt & taxes and thereby HIGH UNEMPLOYMENT. All of which will need a major government hiring compaign or welfare drive in order for folks to keep food on their tables and/or pay their bills.
simply pathetic the press cant see the reality being created right in front of your very eyes..
I think we’ve picked the wrong embarassment. I am not a Bircher but if you look at their material and where we are today verses where they predicted we would be back in the 1950′s, you’ll see a chilling similarity.
To me the larger blunder on the part of CPAC is that they have a gay Republican group as a sponsor GOPROUD. They also censored Joseph Farah from asking questions about Obama’s birth certificate. Farah is a real live reporter and publishes one of the most read conservative news sites on the internet, i.e. CPAC’s audience.
It is time to stop worrying about being liked or at the very least worrying about the liberals and moderates picking on us. Get a Grip. Don’t worry about being liked by the people that want to defeat your beliefs and force you into their version of life.
We will never be liked by liberals unless either we or they change our belief system. I for one will keep my beliefs and continue trying to convert liberals to my way of thinking. CPAC, remember who brought you to the dance.
Check again ,they are right there in the list of co-sponsors.
http://www.cpac.org/sponsors.html
For CPAC pragmatism is now the word of the day. They, like other groups, are desperate to gain as many members as possible, hopefully that have at least a few ideologies in common.
I think you miss the point of the “New World Order conspiracy” espoused by JBS and others. It is not that government and all its players are so competent to pull off a massive conspiracy while maintaining a front; it is that -some- of its players are maneuvering toward a single world government, more or total control over individuals and the usurpation of their rights, and either heavy influence or certain control over the media and ways of thought that citizens are exposed to. While some of the past theories of the JBS are questionable, most of its modern adherents are keen to the basic fact that there are many individuals in high positions in government and business who simply believe that there ought to be global governance: for a recent more forthright example, see the Copenhagen climate change summit. This aligns at a fundamental level with the belief that bigger government is worse government–and as to the assertion that ‘nobody defects,’ it’s not as though major world figures don’t attend these globalist conferences, and don’t utter the words “new world order” and don’t enact policies that confiscate wealth or attempt to eradicate basic rights.
John S. Very well stated.
I think we need to differentiate between global cooperation, which is becoming a necessity and global government which is not desired by the people nor is ti feasible.
The original JBS, it’s followers and ideologies were very divisive. Over the years JBS has what one might say “matured”. Their belief of attempt at global government is real, just look at the United Nations, it is also being fostered by religious groups.
That said, the original JBS position that both covert and overt attempts to replace our democratic republic with either a socialist or Marxist government is still valid.
Now this is not a bad thing, as long as they are willing to educate the masses enough so they can understand the difference.
When the un/under educated hear Pelosi make statements about the constitutionality of a bill, when she obviously has no idea and I doubt she has ever read our Constitution, those people will believe her. The same goes for the outrageous statements made by Reid and Senators and Congressmen/women.
As for the media takeover by government, one has to look no further than main stream TV “news” shows. When the Office of the President is on the phone, directing the general tenure of the show, you have the answer.
The JBS raises many good points and issues. Now the trick will be to keep them from being labeled as radicals. I would say fear mongers or terrorist, but we’ve already been given that label by DHS>
Why you “intellectuals” always wanna harsh my buzz by asking questions?
Why can’t we be the ones asking questions?
I expect an answer Ryan Mauro.
…and Buckley believed in legalizing marijuana too, what of it?
Birchers have some kooks and so do the democrats & the republicans. again, what of it?
comments stating “the real enemy is democratic progessives,” are semantic/double-talk smoke-screens.
democratic progessives are socialists. why say such as misleading statement?
Last time I talked to William F. Buckley Jr about unleashing Swarm Theory on the world, he said “Free moral agency was granted to us all”
I suppose that makes me a kook. For having sought out the last of my alive mentor’s to have shed this mortal coil before I challenged all authority.
Corrupt authority that can be bought with trinkets pulled from a mine has no authority anymore in this new world of humans who cannot be bought.
Or did I die on the streets of Iran?
Read the JBS literature. Interesting how the current media and our own government are talking openly of a “World Government”, a New World Order. Folks like Ron Paul are frequently guests of the JBS. They are for limited government, personal responsibility, and national sovereignty among other issues. It is interesting that the neo-con big government folks are viewed as “conservatives”. Terms like Conservative and Liberal are meaningless now. What is happening is a focusing of people and an education of many people to realize that the true delineation is Constitutionalist/Liberty versus the Collectivist/Big Government group. Those for undeclared “war”, big government, big spending, federal government involved in the daily lives of individuals no matter what they say are Collectivists.
1. David Thompson: do you have a blog? We need more thinkers like you.
2. Some of what the JBS says is correct (in my opinion), some incorrect but within the broad tent of conservatism, and some — the conspiracy theory of everything — deeply wrong.
To keep things in perspective, we should recall that the Left, including its academic component, basically have a conspiracy theory of the world: why does Latin America remain undeveloped? Why is Africa so frequently a host to genocidal horror? Why do American Blacks lag behind in education and income. To all these questions, which in fact require a complex analysis that engages history and culture, among other things, the Left has an answer: it’s all due to rich white people.
3. Let them have a booth at CPAC. Sponsor a debate between them and some non-Birchers. (I nominate David Thomson.) We shouldn’t do witchhunts.
4. Where the Birchers have a point is actually not in their political beliefs, right or wrong, but in their understanding that political effectiveness requires a disciplined organization. Their relatively small numbers are magnified through the lens of an efficient organization. For non-Bircher conservatives the message should be: go and do thou likewise.
Here’s an idea . . . rather than consort with a group that wanted to hang Earl Warren for the Brown v Ed decision, perhaps you should just change the name of the conference. I suggest PCAC.
Guffaw. This is great. The right wing is now butt kissing the Birchers. I’m 63 and have watched this group of nut cases for almost 50 years. Remember how fluoride in the drinking water was a Communist plot meant to poison the entire American population? I do. Well, they haven’t gotten any smarter. Thank you CPAC. Between Sarah, Michelle, Ann and the Birchers, the conference promises to be the biggest belly laugh since Milton Berle.
Too good to be true . . .
Twenty years from now, when the wrinkles in national health care have been ironed out and an entire generation of American citizens has grown accustomed to it and grown to admire it, when gay marriage is a fact of life in all but the most retrograde outposts across the nation, when we have finally managed to extricate ourselves from the calamity of multiple wars in central Asia, etc., etc., we are going to look back on the first couple of decades of the 21st Century as the Dark Ages of the Republican Party – a time when they sacrificed any allegiance to anything of substance, and pandered to the absolute worst in all of us, in exchange for the false hope of electoral victory. No political movement in American history has ever more richly deserved this than the current GOP. The zero vote by the Republicans in yesterday’s Senate vote on health care will be this generation’s legacy, to be added to the Party of No’s opposition to universal sufferage, Social Security, child labor laws, Civil Rights, Medicare, the creation of the SEC and the FDA, the Voting Rights Act, etc., etc., etc. Run, Sarah, run!
Brain dead.
John:
I’m sold! I look forward to your future, when I can stop working and just sit around playing computer games all day while all the wonderful government programs your taxes pay for keep me fed, housed, clothed and in good health.
I’ll buy some wine with my food stamps and together we can toast the proud legacy of the Democratic Party!
You’ve got to be kidding me. The homosexual propagandists of GOProud are presumably fine as a sponsor, but the globalists and neoconservatives are upset about the JBS? Arguing we need sponsors that will please leftist comics like Stewart and Colbert has to be the dumbest argument I’ve ever heard. Get over yourselves, elite beltway “conservatives”! Arguments like this are EXACTLY why the GOP has not benefited one iota from all the unpopularity of the Obama Democrats. When will you learn? And what conspiracy, by the way?!? No, Eisenhower wasn’t a commie, but it’s hardly conspiratorial to recognize the obvious one-worlder socialism in the EU, and similar efforts here among so called “conservatives”. A big welcome to the JBS; the more the MSM whines and cries, the better.
I see an awful lot of uninformed nit-wits in these comments. Clearly those who condemn the JBS do not know the true history of the organization. As well, those who believe we are not experiencing a concerted effort from “outside” to overtake our nation have not been reading the correct material. The evidence is all around you if you just open your eyes and ask a few critical questions. There are very old and powerful organizations that have publicly documented plans revealing what they’re up to. And you bunch of uneducated goof balls refuse to open your eyes see all the published documentation proving the “conspiracies” do exist and are no longer theories but are real conspiracies. WAKE UP you bunch of fools and reach for the ripper fruit instead of the low hanging stuff. In other words start reading and stop blindly accepting what you can see on the surface. Most of the surface stuff is intended to keep the common, shallow minds appeased and it works and it’s working. So get off your butts and do your homework. If you believe this nation is in trouble as many of us do, learn what’s really going on and start educating those around you so we can get rid of the 98% of the elected officials who qualify as criminal. Stop being empty mouthpieces helping to keep everyone distracted and do your homework. Things are certainly not what they seem, WAKE UP!
A-cat
Statement by J. Edgar Hoover:
“The Communist Party in this country has attempted to infiltrate and subvert every segment of our society, but its continuing efforts have not achieved success of any substance. Too many self-styled experts on communism, without valid credentials and without any access whatsoever to classified factual data regarding the inner workings of the conspiracy, have engaged in rumor-mongering and hurling false and wholly unsubstantiated allegations against persons whose views differ from their own. This is dangerous business. It is divisive and unintelligent, and makes more difficult the task of the professional investigator.”
FBI FILES ON JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY:
http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/jbs-1
More info: ernie1241@aol.com
Then again CPAC has also added GOProud as a co-sponsor. Its already annoyed the AFA. They get a sponsor that seems nuts to most sane people and the get one that sets off the “hate gays” crowd. Seems that they are keeping a good balance. And lets face it, both these rows are keeping CPAC in the chatter.
As Johnny Bircherseed has pointed out, JBS got a booth at CPAC. Anyone with a booth is a “co-sponsor”.
With the state of our “public schools” most kids graduating from High school don’t even know who Dwight Eisenhower was. Why is our educational system so bad? Why is the scholastic grades of our high schoolers down in the basement in areas like geography, reading, math and science? Is it a deliberate attempt to “dumb them down” or just a mistake?
Ike had been a life-long liberal Democrat before the Establishment Republicans picked Ike to knock “Mr. Republican” Robert Taft from grabbing the brass ring at the Republican convention. Taft had voted for US joining the United Nations as did most other sentors but saw that the UN was a “trap” and in his public statements didn’t even “like NATO” according to Ron Paul.
What did Ike do once in office? He pushed for federal funding of public education which was then in the control of the states and set the agenda for a total takeover of publilc schools by the federal governmentlater on. This takeover of public education was done under Jimmy Carter.
Reagan campaigned to abolish the Department of Education but he surrounded himself with CFR establishment types and the abolition of the Dept. of Education, Dept. of Energy and OSHA was soon forgotten and he never again pushed it as hard as he had out on the campaign trail, which was the reason he beat big government Carter. The voters loved that Birch-sounding rhetoric and his handlers knew it to. Was this a conspiracy or just pragmatic politics to ignore the wishes of conservative small government voters who voted for him? Why did he raise the national debt limit past the Trillion dollar mark and get us further into debt? Why did the policy of putting the nation further into debt continue even under Reagan?
Americans are every four years given a choice between Republican candidate A and Democrat candidate B but as professor Carroll Quigley, who wrote his famous book on the political world wrote that the “policies remained the same.” And the policies are to give Americans more socialism regardless of who is in the White House.
The Birch Society has never supported with money or with an endorsement any candidates for office, but they have advised its members to join whatever party they so desire to work for less government and lower taxes! Isn’t it interesting that those politicians and TV personalities have begun using Birch slogans like lower taxes and small government as a worhtwhile goal for some years now?
The Buckley issue is that in the early days Father Francis Fennton who was a Cathollic priest and a member of the Council of the JBS said that some of the early JBS chapter meeting took place at the home of Bill Buckley. He told us Buckley wanted Robert Welch to turn over JBS to him and when Welch refused he went after Welch and the Birchers. Buckley was a CIA man and a lifelong member of the Council on foreign Relations which is an outfit that promotes big government. It’s no surprise that Welch saw through Buckley, even though Welch had recommmended Buckley’s National Review and asked members to distribute Buckley’s magazine.
Ike while in unifrom on his own, as far as anyone has been able to determine, ordered the US Army to forceably repatriate millions of Eastern Europeans back into the hands of Joe Stalin. Thousands committed suicide rather than to be forced on board cattle cars and shipped liked animals back from where they had run away from- communism! Welch came upon this information and many other “unconservative” things Ike did and wrote a manuscript (unpublished) which he sent to friends who wanted to know what Welch’s views were of Ike. Ike talked conservative but who did and had done opposite things throughout his miltary and politcal career. Welch documented and supported his claims with careful research. None of the facts have ever been disproven in The Politician, but detracters hang on to one bit of surmise that Welch used at the end of his book to attack The JBS that was formed after Welch wrote the Politician!
But let’s get to what Wwelch said in the Politician. Why did Ike do these things? That Ike did them is no question but Welch, according to the hero makers in the establishment press, felt that Welch should not bother the world with facts on establishment heroes.
Norman Thomas who ran as a Socialist for president 3 times observed that socialism under Ike was being built faster than it ever could have under the Liberal Democrats. Should the Pajamas.com writer actually read the Politician before he joins the establishment chorus in condemning an organization based on half-truths and fabrications? I think that the 51 years that the Birch society has been around surviving the attcks by liberals and establishment conservatives like Buckley deserve better treatment. At least critics should not just circulate the trash the establishment press has on the JBS.
The writer claims to have been badgered by a field rep of The JBS into subscribing to their magazine. Gee wheez many of us have been pressed by car salesmen but that doesn’t mean we go after Ford corporation! We tell the front office and report the salesman for his heavy-handed tactics. But really folks the JBS is totally soft sell and I really have a hard time with your accusation. It is not part of JBS policy to use any force but to use Welch’s tactics of patience and kindness with those whom we come in contact with. Welch was a successful salesman and wrote a book – The road to salemanship – and in it he recommended the soft sell approach.
Conspiracy
Julius Caesar was assassinated by a conspiracy of three men: Jesus was the victim of another conspiracy involving the government of Rome, and the religious leaders of His time. Palace conspiracies are found throughout history. The Mafia was a criminal conspiracy that was so secretive that J. Edgar Hoover doubted that it existed until Valichi spilled the beans.
Did the Russian Communists conspire to overthrow the Czar and then the Kerenski socialists?
As Mel Gibson said in an interview shortly before the release of Passion of The Christ. The whole history of the world is filled with conspiracies.
In a way, the author of this article has a point. A group like the JBS, who advocate a return to the limited government prescribed by the Constitution, and oppose and have long predicted encroaching socialism in our nation and an incremental effort toward globalism, has no place in the mainstream GOP/neo-conservative movement. With JBS as a sponsor of CPAC, it send a message that CPAC isn’t beholden to the neo-con efforts.
Sure, there are still “globalism deniers” in this country, but considering how openly both parties now work toward integrating and subjecting our nation to foreign powers, no one who denies the march toward globalism can really be taken seriously.
But then, that is exactly what is wrong with the GOP today, and why groups like the Tea Parties have such strong grassroots support. The mainstream GOP has abandoned it’s “principles”, ignores the limits of the Constitution, and helps implement socialist and globalist actions.
The comments by Lee Gonzales contain several falsehoods. For example, Bill Buckley never wanted to takeover or control the Birch Society. In fact, Buckley supported many of the groups and causes that Robert Welch favored including Welch’s Committee Against Summit Entanglements.
With respect to The Politician [TP] — both Robert Welch and the JBS have deliberately lied about its history in order to minimize the damage to the Birch Society. With respect to Lee’s comment “None of the facts have ever been disproven in The Politician” — that is totally absurd. First of all, a considerable portion of the statements made in TP are not “facts” — they are OPINIONS. Second, even Welch’s friends sent him letters in which they identified what they considered factual errors in his manuscript. Third, after Sen. Barry Goldwater read the manuscript which Welch sent to him, Goldwater phoned Welch and told him:
“I want no part in this. I won’t even have it around. If you were smart, you’d burn every copy you have.”
That reaction by Goldwater was NOT because TP was full of “facts”.
Fourth, many prominent JBS members (including National Council members) rejected TP because they, like Sen. Goldwater, did NOT believe that Welch’s manuscript was filled with “facts”. That included people who (unlike Welch) actually knew Eisenhower.
With respect to Lee’s comment that:
“The Birch Society has never supported with money or with an endorsement any candidates for office…”
That is, at best, a half-truth. Robert Welch explicitly endorsed Goldwater and Ronald Reagan and Birchers were the primary movers and shakers behind the candidacy of George Wallace and the creation of the American Independent Party. Imagine what the JBS would say if senior CPUSA officials constantly praised certain politicians and if CPUSA members were primarily responsible for creating a new political party and working feverishly for a particular candidate.
Would the JBS then make accept a statement by a Communist Party shill who claimed “The CPUSA has never supported with money or with an endorsement any candidates for office…”
Discover why even J. Edgar Hoover and senior FBI officials within the Bureau’s Domestic Intelligence Division concluded in FBI memos that the Birch Society was “extremist”, “irrational”, “irresponsible”. My 88-page report reveals the type of “facts” which Lee Gonzales claims to respect and those facts demonstrate that the JBS has for 50+ years circulated FALSE information.
And then remember that the Birch Society paid Chicago lawyer Elmer Gertz $400,000 after they FALSELY libeled him in an article in the JBS magazine, American Opinion. So much for FACTS!
FBI FILES ON THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY:
http://ernie1241.googlepages.com/jbs-1
Where is Wm. Buckley when you really need him?? Judging by the antics at the CPAC the lunatic fringe has taken over the conservative movement. We have a relatively centrist president but these morons continually paint him as some kind of leftist radical due to their ignorance of political history. Things have gotten so out of whack on the right that nowadays Nixon would be considered a liberal! Unless the conservative movement divorces itself from the religious right hate groups and the lunatic fringe they are bound to fail over and over. Most normal Americans do not like extremists no matter whether left or right. If these people gain power the US is doomed.
The original article is full of defecation about the JBS. There is plenty to criticize about them – they are, after all, a group of human beings, and as such are subject to the failings of humans. What group isn’t? Either political party? The Catholic Church? Cops? Congress?
Ernie is a very good, very well researched, apparently well intentioned source to start with to read all the dirt there is to find on them, though I may be giving him too much credit. Given that his heart and head are immune to questioning his own perceptions, as I have learned in long debates with him in the past, it is not out of the question that he is not as well intentioned and honorable as he seems, but rather has a vendetta against them and his agenda does not include discerning truth at any cost (as is my goal).
Ryan Mauro (the author of this hatched job) knows just enough about the JBS to be dangerous. He grossly mis-states their view on conspiracy. It didn’t take Welch more than a few years to see that communism was not the “inner circle” around which the conspiracy revolved. There is a conspiracy, but it is not like a unified group of business, political, media, and other powerful interests with Deep Throat getting on conference call weekly to issue plans – it is more like a dozen Mafia families with no love lost between them, sitting around the table and forced to work with each other, each vying for as much power and control as possible but none wanting to kill the golden goose of power flowing through DC and the UN.
The JBS holds and defends not only the Constitution, but a traditionally religious mindset. It is not denominational in any manner and they do not even screen for religious affiliation in their membership, but they firmly believe that we are in a struggle of good vs evil, and the only “conspiracy” in the sense that the author writes is Satanic. Business leaders, politicians, media personnel, etc., are each attracted to their role in the grand drama not based on their desire to further some eternal or worldly conspiracy, but for their own motives. For some that may be pure greed or lust for power; for others it may be to save the world from Global Warming or help the poor. In the end, power and money and control flowing into ever more concentrated hands is the result. A small number of humans are conscious of the big picture to some degree, but most are merely motivated merely by their own lower, sel-serving human nature.
To the leadership of the JBS the spiritual battle is the ultimate cause. Be they right or be they wrong about that aspect, the fact remains that they have been far more correct than any other group over the last 60 years about the big trends in government and economics (towards a “New World Order” where government power is ever more concentrated globally, as Bush and dozens and dozens of world leaders have openly proclaimed), the implications of that trend (dire, including a loss of sovereignty!), and how to reverse it (restore the Constitution and encourage individuals to live moral lives). Fiscal conservatives and libertarians have much to agree on – we do not have time to waste bickering about whether the cause of the decline of America is ultimately spiritual or merely pure bungling by well intentioned bureaucrats.
A word to the wise – don’t waste your time trying to prove the JBS wrong that some bankers and other power groups worked consciously for decades to influence and nurture the developments we see unfolding around us with such clarity every day – a quick read of Carroll Quigley’s book Tragedy and Hope (if you can read a 1400 page tome quickly) reveals that there is no way you can ever prove he is wrong – he details the blueprint far too clearly with exhaustive references. That does not mean that Quigley “proves” the conspiracy exists by any totally objective means, but it does mean that the matter is not going to be settled with any degree of certainty in this life.
(Quigley, for those who do not know, was an uber liberal professor at Georgetown with absolutely impeccable credentials, not the least of which is the fact that he was Bill Clinton’s mentor – Clinton said Carroll clarified his world vision. Quigley based much of his “tell all” book on the two years of research he did studying the secret records of some extremely powerful world shakers. He actually agreed with all of their elitist “white man’s burden” views, with the main exception that they preferred their names and goals kept out of the public eye, and he thought their noble work deserved the limelight. If anyone wants to read my review of the book, let me know.)
Moderator, do you double as editor? My spell check must have glitched. I mispelled “hatchet” in the 3rd paragraph of the previous post, and botched the end of the 4th paragraph, which should read “…but most are motivated merely by their own lower, self-serving human nature.”
Thanks – Happy St Patrick’s Day!