Could Americans’ Discontent Turn Violent?
At what point does discontent turn to violence?
Economically, we may or may not be close to hitting rock bottom, but policy-wise, this market still has a long way to fall. While there are individual sectors that in normal recessionary times would still be good hedges against further downturns, these days investors don’t seem to be as concerned with equity, value, and earnings as they are with Washington’s proposals. Stable, profitable companies, like many energy firms and pharmaceutical companies, see their equity slashed by the threat of regulation, while others with little prospects for profitability increase in value through the infusion of taxpayer subsidies. This is no way to rebuild an economy.
Unfortunately, the president’s actions have put the country on notice that dependency-building not economy-building is his plan. His budget has the federal government spending an astounding one-third of the nation’s GDP, fully half of which is borrowed from the future.
While his “rescue” plans threaten to create a double-dip recession, they simultaneously court increased corporate reliance on the government for help. Auto manufacturers, banks, and insurance companies are already there — locked into a cycle of dependency. Chrysler and GM want their second bailout while AIG has asked for its fourth. Soon it will be the pension funds of companies and unions, as well as those for state and municipal employees, that will come begging to Washington. The Obama administration gives every indication that it will “help” those who then must depend on them. That, of course, means that Americans who rely on their own investments and see their accounts already battered by the market, will have them further eroded by taxes and inflation.
The risk to the administration — nay, the risk to America — is that when we reach bottom, it won’t be an economic bottom, but a socio-cultural one. Ayn Rand was a great observer of economic principles, but having grown up in Russia, she was less astute about the American psyche. In Atlas Shrugged, her dystopian novel about an overbearing government, the productive protagonist simply refused to produce. That, after all, was the response of Muscovites, who in 1812 burned, then deserted their capitol rather than fight to retain their city in the face of Napoleon’s advancing army. However, passive aggression has never been the American way. Around the same time in American history, General Andrew Jackson dealt with foreign invaders quite differently. His forces slaughtered 2,000 British soldiers two weeks after the war was over, rather than let them reach New Orleans. Americans don’t go John Galt. We go postal.
Citi Bank just informed me that as a “valued customer” I qualify for a promotional rate of 6.99 per cent interest, which will rise after 6 months to 21.99 per cent interest, unless I am ever late for a payment (or pay too early) in which case it rise to 29.99 per cent interest. The USA is not bailing out a bank, we are bailing out a loan shark. But streetwise loan sharks survive only because they employ thugs for protection. 22 per cent, or 30 per cent, interest on a debt (which is not dischargeable in bankruptcy) will drive anybody over the edge. People who take this bait (hoping to pay it off before the 6 months is up) stand to lose everything and will then have nothing to lose. So now, for the good of the country, I hope that Citi goes belly up.
It’s going to happen. When people are losing nearly everything they’ve saved, and the government is taking what’s left from them and destroying their children’s future in the name of ‘fairness’, it always turns out the same.
Dictatorship or revolution.
While I share Mr. Krumm’s concerns I do not agree with his debate methodology.
We get enough of that kind of rhetoric coming from Mr. Obama and his administration who are saying, “People we (the government) are aware of your hostile disapproval of what we are doing, but you (the people) need to understand that we (the government) are prepared to force our will down your throat by military force if necessary.
When Americans sense that they no longer are able to control their own destiny they will rise up in mass against their elected politicians by simply throwing them out of office, not by engaging in street warfare.
Sullihan – I heard a named that was coined during the last Depression…Banksters.
The thing that frosts my onions the most and could have me take to the street is Acorn voter fraud cancelling out my vote. So lets make taxpayers support Acorn? Where’s my goddamn pitchfork???
“”"When Americans lose hope, instead of taking handouts, they bite those whose hands are out, especially if those hands are holding guns. “”"
I don’t believe this statement accurately relects reality. Go to any city in the US and put up a towed sign that says “Free Government Surplus Cheese : Open 4-6pm Saturday Only”. 30% of the population will be there in line by 4pm. The attitude you imply is so infrequently encountered, when people do encounter it they think something is wrong with the person refusing the handout. I also don’t believe Americans will turn violently towards the sharp point of the federal government : local police departments. It is those individuals enforcing the judicial paper locally. It’s a “Road Warrior” fantasy to assume widespread civil disobedience towards a well armed and aggressive police force.
Generally, Americans are pretty docile. I think you would have to actually take everything from a LOT of people to get real violence like your implying. So goes the saying “once you have lost everything, you can do anything.”
Marxists have never been able to take control of a country where there was anything that resembled a reasonably equitable distribution of property ownership and income as there is in the US. In 1974-5 I was living in Portugal and saw the marxist play the lets seize a of a crisis play to grab power and fail miserably.
Despite a 100 plus years of the consumption by lefties of their own class war kool-aid and their ensuing rantings about the need for social justice most Americans who pay the bills for the entitlement state do not want neither European socialism, the stalinist style street thug marxism of Obama’s mentors Davis and Alinsky, nor the psuedo-intellectual loony professor strain of communism that Obama was reared on and imbibed of the Frankkfurt School victimization variety fed to the clueless kiddies of the affluent by the mad readicals of professoriate at our country’s elite universities.
When marxists last tried to play the power grab game with their always weak hand byloudly proclaiming I won election deck and tried to communize a nation they bit the bullets in Chile, Nicaragua, and El Salavador in the 1970s and 80s.
Chrmn. Zero and Rahm the ballerina Emmanuel had best heed history and economic reality rather than chant 150 year old threadbare failed marxian maxims unless they are ready to face a political backlash of a fierceness unparalleled in American history. Chrmn. Zero,the leftist ideologues around him, his cabal of professional victimology hustlers, his entourage of crony campaign contributor capitalists, and the adoring and drolling elitist idiots of the media all need to face the the economic reality that we are not a nation of paupers and oppressed.
O and the democrats need to realize the facts that until they wrecked the markets with their left-wing agendaism 10 million households in the US had a net worths over $1,000,000 and many 10s of millions were worth over $500,000. In factthe vast majority of our citizens despite leftist and democrat party fantasies to the contrary lived abundant lives and were enjoying greater inflation adjusted household wealth than ever in our history.
In the US today more than half of all working household’s own a stake in the stock market directly or indirectly including government employess.
Until November 4th, 2008 more than 60% of all corporate stock was held by pension systems, mutual funds, or as IRAs,. Keoughs, and TSAs by the more than a 80 million of our fellow citizens.
Since the late 1970s more than 65% of households owned without the Community Reinvestment Act instituted under the failed administration of the last lost lefty appeaser who got to the White House and created a free house entitilement for society’s economic failures, irresponsible losers and neer do wells.
The let’s take advantage of a crisis to communize the country crowd that with the aid of the leftist media who have now usurped control of Pennsylvania Avenue seem totally unaware of the reality that nearly 1/3 of all American households own their homes free and clear.
Damned few no mortgage home owners as well as the working and paying their mortgage 90% of owner occupier Americans are willing to hand hard won assets to a mob of the reckless and irresponsible living off the reward handed them by power mad politicians and their bureauweenie stable of gimme I need house Ms. Hughes grifters and the legions of country’s self-destructive losers at life so that they can sit on their prats watching Ophrah, Babs Walters, Roseanne, and other Hags of the Hamptons who chatter on the the dinosaur networks daytime programs to an ever shrinking audiences about the terrible misery and meaness the poor suffered at the hands of George Bush, the Republicans, and Rush Limbaugh. Obama beware a bear is getting riled and this one is not Russian.
“At what point does discontent turn to violence?”
I don’t see it turning violent.
Liberals love what’s happened to our country. And Conservatives?
Conservatives just don’t handle protest that way. I can’t recall ever seeing a conservative laying in the middle of the street tied to another conservative or standing shoulder to shoulder with others blocking traffic, or throwing rocks at police, or screaming at people and spitting in their face or setting fire to property or looting or breaking windows or throwing paint on someone.
Obama would have to turn into a conservative for their to be violence. So rest easy everyone.
“Conservatives just don’t handle protest that way. I can’t recall ever seeing a conservative laying in the middle of the street tied to another conservative or standing shoulder to shoulder with others blocking traffic, or throwing rocks at police, or screaming at people and spitting in their face or setting fire to property or looting or breaking windows or throwing paint on someone.”
Craig,
Actually “protest” isn’t the right word in a “conservative” context.
It implies all the things you described, plus it implies that that the protester is not really capable of forcing change.
“Conservatives” can force change, if they decide to do so, it won’t be a “protest” it will be “fixing a problem”. Not the same thing at all.
I’m with Craig. We do have elections coming up. Yes, he tried to subvert the census but that fell apart. You need to channel your energy into the process we have. Until that is fundamentally changed, leave the violence on the shelf for now.
TO: Craig
RE: Really?
You must have missed that event televised on 700 Club back in the 90s, where a group of ‘conservative’ Christians were run over by an SUV as they lay in the driveway into an abortion clinic.
The feet kicking from under the car was particularly interesting.
Hope that helps.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men. -- Abraham Lincoln]
The mechanism for revolt is already in play. Some 20 states have 10th amendment resolutions introduced and several have these in previous years. Once the number of states hit 32 a constitutional convention can be called. This can be the vehicle for changes on the powers of the federal government. The emotional agitation for stopping the power grab by the federal government is in the increasing tea party movement which is made up of the silent majority of workers, families and productive people who are now fed up. These are not the professional protesters of the left. Yet they are now taking time to voice their displeasure.
If the fustrations continue it is possible that the states will call a convention and create a constutional crisis.
TO: Bob Krumm, et al.
RE: The ‘Violent’ Course of Action
There are any number of possible scenarios that would lead to violence. Some of them perpetrated by the people who put Obama in power. Some by conservatives. Others by the government itself.
When would conservatives become ‘violent’? Again, there are a number of different possibilities. In my personal opinion, it would probably resemble the kulaks of the 1920s in Russia. And it would as pathetic as then.
For the uneducated or ignorant, the ‘kulaks’ were the property owners of Russia; farms, businesses, etc.
They were too busy making a living to join the White Russian forces during the Russian Civil War that followed the Bolshevik Revolution of November 1917. So the Soviet forces won.
Then as the kulaks, holding their property and businesses were competition for the Soviet regime, the Soviets passed laws that tightened the screws on the kulaks. In 1928, things were SO tight that the kulaks went into revolt. Probably a la John Galt, as they still had their property and they still wanted to make a living by it.
This caused Lenin to issue a decree that those who revolted should be strung up and their property seized. Which is what happened.
After Lenin died and Stalin took over, in 1930-31, the kulaks were rounded up and sent off to ‘re-education’ camps. 1.3 million of them died.
All because they were ‘too busy’, making a living to see the bayonets pointed at them.
I do believe the same scenario is the most likely one to happen here, if these latter-day kulaks don’t pay attention to history.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. I do believe that Stalin’s re-education camps were the inspiration for Hitler’s ‘final solution’ to the Jewish problem……
P.P.S. I likewise believe that Ayers—Obama’s political science mentor—had this in mind when he suggested that 25 million Americans would likely need to be liquidated.
Thomas Jefferson had much to say about such matters, as did several other founding fathers. One would do well to revisit their writings. They were very concerned about this very situation arising – and now it has.
‘Hope for the best, but expect the worst’ is the rule of thumb I’ve adopted.
My hope is that the ‘Tea Party’ movement grows to the point where Congressmen take a good, hard, sobering look at 2010 and their political futures. If the legislative branch continues to fail to put the brakes on the executive branch’s madness, civil unrest is quite possible. People can be quite passionate about their childen’s future. America is the last refuge for freedom lovers. The fight or flight option does not exist.
At present the congress is acting in concert with the Executive branch’s to destroy the American dream, so my hope is running against the evidence.
Government spending is condemning our children to indentured servitude and hopelessness. Unless congress sobers up real fast, it’s gonna get ugly at lot sooner than many people would like to believe.
What will be interesting to watch will be when both The Exalted One and his enablers try to cut their losses.
The dynamic at work right now at the command level of our government is simple, if not necessarily obvious. The Democrats’ Congressional leadership (Pelosi, Reid, et al.) are thinking, “We’ll let The One pretend to run things, while we make all the decisions.” At the same time, The One is thinking, “I’m pursuing my agenda, which no one but I understands, and if there’s a backlash, I’ll play Nixon, and throw some of my enablers in Congress under the bus to buy myself more time to achieve my goals.” (NB; the “goal” of both groups seems to be reducing us, and the world, to a “sustainable” agrarian socialist “civilization” operating at Bronze Age levels, but I digress.)
In between is The One’s chosen staff at State, Justice, Treasury, etc., and in the White House itself. Their agenda consists of, “I don’t know or care what The One and the Congress have in mind. Following their orders- more or less- allows me to hurt people and destroy institutions I hate, thus fulfilling my adolescent dreams of absolute power with no consequences. So I’ll ride this train as far as it goes- and get off before it reaches the end of the tracks. By then I’ll have gotten back at everyone who ever irritated me, anyway, and I’ll have a nice golden parachute for my trouble. Screw everybody else.” (Think Emanuel, Geithner, Holder, and of course Ms. Hillary.)
Each group sees itself as exploiting the other two. Each group believes that it can, in the end, sacrifice the other two to protect itself from the consequences of its actions.
When the crash comes, it will be something that can only be defined by the online term; Epic Fail.
clear ether
eon
This country does not have enough troops or cops to stop a concerted “revolution”. If it comes to that, the results will be swift and catastrophic.
TO: mishu
RE: Please Describe….
“….channel your energy into the process we have. Until that is fundamentally changed, leave the violence on the shelf for now.” — mishu
….the point at which we can recognize that the process we have has been ‘fundamentally changed’…..preferably for the worse.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[What a man thinks of himself, that is which determines, or rather indicates, his fate. - Henry David Thoreau]
TO: RE:
RE: MY ‘Hope’….
“My hope is that the ‘Tea Party’ movement grows to the point where Congressmen take a good, hard, sobering look at 2010 and their political futures.” — RE:
….is that in 2010, the Tea Party has become so strong that we throw many of the bat-rastards who voted for this fiasco out.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Nobody's property, liberty or life is safe while Congress is in session. -- Will Rogers]
TO: RAH
RE: Careful….
“This can be the vehicle for changes on the powers of the federal government.” — RAH
…about what you ask for, here. Look at the fiasco of the EU ‘constitutional convention’.
So. Tell us the motivation on the part of these 20 states that are pushing for a Constitutional Convention.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[They keep talking about drafting a Constitution for Iraq. Why don't we just give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, it's worked for over 200 years and hell, we're not using it anymore.]
P.S. The reason we’re not using it anymore is because of bat-rastard lawyers who have learned how to use the system in order to defeat it.
I believe the first threat will come from predator gangs that are armed like the Mexican cartel. Citizens will have to coordinate defense with the police for mutual protection. Maybe later Obama will launch his blue shirt army to enforce Obama think. That could start a race war. All speculation anyway.
Look for the Recovery logos to be defaced.
If our govt., regardless as to who is in charge, continues to ignore the Constitution, I hope my state, Texas secedes from this union. It’s our right.
Craig: You are right Conservatives don’t handle things that way. We don’t do protests and civil disobediance – we have jobs.
We do keep our guns zeroed and have been stockpiling ammo for a year now. We look at each other at the gun clubs, VFWs, and churchs – waiting for the signal. When it comes, things will happen very fast.
What’s striking is the spread of the Tea Parties. It’s reminds one of the conservatives that took off work (horrors) to go and watch the debacle of the recount in Florida to make sure the Dems didn’t cheat too much.
I can’t think of any period in the 20th or 21st century where middle class folks are fed up enough to go to a public demonstration. Remarkable.
“Fundamental differences in basic values can seldom if ever be resolved at the ballot box; ultimately they can only be decided, though not resolved, by conflict.”
Milton Friedman – Capitalism and Freedom
As I noted on a different but similar topic, in my area of the country (the midwest), the seething is just below the surface. I’d love to believe that people would be willing to act in an orderly fashion should a total economic collapse happen, but in reality I can see it happening differently. President Teleprompter was elected by uninformed masses of people who have no idea that the sand is being washed out from beneath their feet as we speak. When they realize what has happened, I shudder to think of the outcome.
Since taking office, Obama has increased the national debt more that any President in the last 100 years. Yet his polling numbers stay high. Just goes to show that his supporters are uninformed, unintelligent and illiterate. When the government cheese runs out, maybe that will make them FINALLY take note of what they’ve really elected.
TO: Gary Ogletree
RE: Heh
“I believe the first threat will come from predator gangs that are armed like the Mexican cartel. Citizens will have to coordinate defense with the police for mutual protection.” — Gary Ogletree
I wouldn’t count to much on the ‘police’ for help.
Why?
Well, when I attended a conference on preparation for a possible bird flu pandemic, I heard a police department rep say they were going to hold-up with their families in a compound and look after themselves.
It REALLY is a shame that the organizers of the conference required that I erase all recordings I’d made with my iPod.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. I’m reminded of the way the Roman Catholic priests of the 14th Century responded to the Black Death. Where they were supposed to care for the sick, the fled….
Good points all. We certainly live in interesting times. Sure, the 70s were bad and we’re not there yet. Carter was an idiot, but I don’t think we had the government percieved as so disconnected from the people as we are seeing now. The louder we speak, the less they hear us. Violence? I’m not sure, I would hope not, but these are different times. I can certainly see it coming from the Left and those who will feel betrayed by the Messiah’s empty promises. But we now have the rest of us losing a lot of what we have worked for our whole lives being taken away on a scale we have never experienced by an ever unresponsive and overbearing government. I fear the sense of betrayal by our leaders will be much harder to reconcile than the loss of wealth. We can generally earn back what we lose monetarily, but our faith in goverment will be much harder to replace. We are in uncharted waters.
it’s on..oh yes..it’s on….however i detest the word “postal”…this will not be some lunatic wussy on a spree to right suspected wrongs…oh no…this will be mom and pop…your and my neighbors…good people who refuse to let marxists take over our country…it has started….think i’m kidding….just bring up obambi’s name at your local coffee shop…see the reaction you get from regular every day folk..most of whom voted for the “one”…i was in wal mart last week and heard a loud verbal exchange between a entitlement person and a worker person…it was ugly..the other worker people chased the entitlement person out of the store…these were regular every day people…not some lunatic fringe moonbat right wing group….oh..btw.the entitlement person drove away in a lexus suv…it’s on…soon
There aren’t going to be threats from predator gangs, except in places where there are already threats from gangs. The police will continue to do their jobs.
The likelihood of the president getting his proposed blue shirt army, or whatever he calls it is nil. Do you really think Nancy Pelosi is going to allow that to come to a vote? She is probably the biggest loser if the executive branch gets a domestic army.
Violence will only come if people decide that the political process doesn’t work. Trying to take control of the census is one aggravation. The recounts that always result in the Republican who is ahead on election night losing is another. If the economy remained stable, this wouldn’t be an issue. However, if the productive class continues to lose everything for which they’ve worked, and become powerless to effect meaningful change through the ballot, then you’ve got trouble. Judicial interference in the legislative process is another aggravation.
The only options left are flee or fight, and there’s nowhere left to go. It would serve our legislators well to read the Declaration of Independence. There is a clause in there about “deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.”
Here’s the reality. Go to any gun store and you will observe that M-14 and AR-15 assault rifles are flying out the door as fast as they arrive. Google .223 ammo used for these weapons, and notice the bulk purchases currently “out of stock”
“11. RAH:
The mechanism for revolt is already in play. Some 20 states have 10th amendment resolutions introduced and several have these in previous years. Once the number of states hit 32 a constitutional convention can be called.”
The problem with that is forcing a “Constitutional Convention” via State action does not fix any problem. It allows however is in power to amend the Constitution in any manner they wish. They do not have to pass or even look at the amendments brought by the States.
So in this case you would have the most corrupt, immoral political force… leftist/liberals/democrats doing as they damn well pleased. No doubt B.O. would be made into a Castro,, Kim Jong Ill beloved Leader for life. I suspect B.O. would welcome such a Constitutional Convention.
Now if, on the other hand, Conservatives were in power. You would have some honor in the process. But then if Conservatives were in power .. it would not be needed in the first place.
12. Chuck Pelto: Thanks for the historical perspective it is relevant and offers a good lesson.
FYI: I didn’t know the story but I don’t consider myself “uneducated or ignorant”
Most societies don’t revert to violent change unless they feel there is no other course and the current course they are in is destructive to their life. When Andrew Jackson slaughtered British troops in New Orleans the country was fighting to exist. Pushed into a corner we are dangerous people and we will not give up our independence and freedom without a fight. I believe the framers of our own Declaration of Independence put it best when they wrote this, “…deriving their (the governments) just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends (life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness), it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government…” Here’s entire document Http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/freedom/doi/text.html
#12 says don’t fall asleep and he’s right. It was mentioned a couple times in this blog that conservatives don’t protest they fix and #11 described the process to fix the problem. If the nation deems the government has become “destructive to these ends” then seeks change through legitimate means and those efforts are blocked by what is perceived illegitimate or unconstitutional; then violence will erupt. Americans will not sit by and watch their country be taken over by a movement towards a “Single Party Socialist Republic” Join the Tea Party and Fight the Change.
Obama and the Democrats cannot solve our problems, they are the problem. The economy says so. When the market drops to 1000, I think you will see a military takeover. I am convinced Obama is leaving the troups overseas because he fears just such a senario.
Not for nothing have gun sales gone through the roof since the election. I don’t think anyone wants it to come to that, but obviously a great many citizens are concerned about the new administration running roughshod over the economy and the Constitution. I frankly don’t believe that today’s military would side with the White House if things went badly on a societal level. Has anyone here ever heard of the armed revolt against county government that took place in Athens, Tennessee in 1946? Several servicemen that had returned home after WWII made their displeasure known about the corruption in local government and demanded a new election. They were adament about what they had fought to defend, and what they came home to wasn’t it. They were bullied by the corrupt officials, threatened with arrest and so on. One night, they went to the local armory, grabbed some rifles and took on the sheriff’s department, taking all personnel into custody. They got their new election and kicked the slime out of office. I’m not willing to say that it can never happen here.
Update….here’s a link to the story:
http://patdollard.com/2008/11/history-on-the-verge-of-repeating-the-battle-of-athens-tennessee-1946/
Its bad enough that the left says consevatives are Nazi’s. Why do we have to assume that conservative voters are so dumb they would vote for an extreme third party.
You must live in a blue state. Out here in fly-over America, it’s already started. People are stockpiling ammo and making plastic explosives. Last month some guy in Houston stopped the car he was driving in the middle of the interstate. Got out and walked away. The city was tied up most of the morning. Never caught him. Multiply that by 10 in the 10 largest cities and America comes to a halt for several hours. Caused by 100 people, none of who have committed a felony. The Civil war will be mostly a Gandhi style civil disobedience type program, with a few assassinations thrown in. The point is getting the Usurper to resign. Let Joe take over.
When the civil war starts, it won’t be an armies lined up sort of war. It will be a knife in the shadows, IED, sniper sort of war. A key point will be the ’10 elections.
I expect the economy will be worse in a year then it is now.
The Left is unable to admit their Socialist economic policies don’t work. If they could admit that, it would force them to re-examine their entire body of dogma. Then there would be no more Socialism.
So the Usurper and his handlers will keep on doing more of what isn’t working. Unemployment will be into double digits soon, 12% or so by late summer.
Th 21st century American citizen is to educated to be bought off with a make work job. As the song goes. I built a tower to the sun, now it’s done. Buddy can you spare a dime?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4yT0KAMyo
Trust a Socialist to make the same old mistake over and over and over again.
29. MarkD: You’re right. There won’t be wide-scale civil war here. There may, though, be some bankers/Wall-Streeters that bite the bullet because of the perception that they are the ones who brought us all down through their greed.
The government has enough firepower to bring down any widescale insurrection because most people would simply refuse to fight out of sheer cowardice. A low level of vigilante justice is highly possible, though.
Good luck to all!
regards
Revolution is really the only solution. The elections have become so corrupt that only the socialist are allowed to run. Our government has gotten so big and so corrupt it has lost sight of the Constitution of the United States of America. For them it does not exist anymore. I use to think that if you would tar and feather a crooked politician that would be enough, but now I think lynching would be to good for them.
If it makes any of you relax a little, Obama has never proposed anything even remotely like a “domestic army” or brownshirt brigades. He did, however, publicly endorse SecDef Robert Gate’s call for a “civilian national security force” that could “deploy teams that combine agricultural specialists and engineers and linguists and cultural specialists who are prepared to go into some of the most dangerous areas alongside our military.”
Essentially, the proposal called for a major expansion of State Department humanitarian and rebuilding capabilities for places like Iraq and Afghanistan — “as large and well-funded as our armed services” — so that DOD’s warfighters could focus on security and combat requirements rather than civil works, construction projects and human services.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3617492&c=FEA&s=CVS
It’s not just the money and the theft. It’s the assaualt on free speech, free labor, reliable medical care, the second amendment, the census, the whole bloody thing. The entire American Way of Life has been marked for death by these people and the supine and effeminate republicans are totally clueless.
We need someone other than Rick Santelli and Jim Cramer to organize this. The problem is that no politician is going to step up this early for fear of peaking too soon. In other words, it’s still all about them.
Sickening.
TO: Jeff K
RE: Actually….
…I seriously doubt that ANYONE here is godlike in their omniscience. We’re all ignorant of a lot of things. Most of the time it’s because we were poorly educated on HOW to learn. That is especially true with the younger generations, these days.
Ignorance is nothing to be ashamed of. The only think to be ashamed of is being ‘stupid’.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Stupid, adj., Ignorant and proud of it.]
Honest Jon: It is the politicization of mortgages that has brought us down, not the “greed” of bankers as a group. The big wall street banks and assucuted fnacail firms such as AIG, all of which are strongly liberal Democrat enclaves chuck full of big time Democrat insiders, colluded with their (mostly) democrat buddies in congrees, GSE’s and regulatory bodies to loot the rest of us. This is mostly a failure of government.
“Main Street” banks, which do tend to have more republican, are not the cause of this. they are tiny in contrast to the big “money center banks”, were much more prudent in their lending policies, tended not to trade derivatives much, or trade anything mcuh at all.
Why, with ample evidence of the skulduggery of the Democrat controlled congress and ther redistribution, vote buying real estate policies, do you still refuse to lay the blame where it s due. It is a matter of record, not opinion.
associated financial firms^
TO: All
RE: Rotwang and Stupidity
How stupid can someone get?
Or maybe he’s just ‘ignorant’ of THIS article.
I think a large-scale ‘insurrection’ against Obama in 2012 would be considered a ‘catastrophy’ by some…..
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[If you're not paranoid, it's because you aren't paying attention.]
Whoah! Can we say, overexcited? I knew we could. Most Americans didn’t want no stinkin’ revolution in the 60s and I’m thinking they don’t want one now. Not to underplay the probems but the USA has survived worse than Obama who is rapidly painting himself into one term territory. Besides, the GOP could still find a “Reagan” or a more saleable Rush. They might want to back away from Jindal and Steele, however. A creationist and a fellow traveller aren’t going to do it for them. The trick may be to find a black Rush rather than a conservative Obama.
Conservatives won’t be rioting in the streets, silly.
The rioters will be the unemployed and welfare poor who suddenly find themselves without power during the hot summer months. Obama’s cap-and-trade and “green” policies are going to overwhelm the power grid during the time when you don’t want hot, angry people. Plus they will have been suffering under runaway inflation where groceries and beer cost an arm and a leg and they get nothing but scolding lectures from the Wagyu beef set in the White House.
We conservatives are stockpiling and making plans because our good policemen and National guardsmen are going to be overwhelmed, and we’ll be protecting our families and businesses.
It’s going to be a long, hot summer, folks.
To Chuck Pelto
No offense taken Chuck you make good points.
Targets of the revolution should include:
The Politicians
President Obama
Nancy Pelosi
Harry Reid
Barney Frank – Mr. Housing Mess
All Democrats and the three Republican Senators (Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, Arlen Specter) who voted with President Obama on the economic porkulus plan
The Media and Hollywood
News Organizations – CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC – for continually feeding the public lies and propping up Obama
The New York Times
The Washington Post
Newsweek and Time Magazine
All of the Hollywood stars and movie executives that backed Obama – we should protest all of their films. It’s time for people like Barbara Streisand and Steven Spielberg to feel personal career pain, too!
The Community Organizing Puppets
Acorn
“Could the American people get violent over socialism?” Yes it can.
Though I’d hope that a peaceful demonstration to our government, maybe many millions of people clogging all the streets and sidewalks of Washington DC, would do the trick. But since Congress has already decided to pass these Bills, in spite of overwhelming protest by the people. That may not be enough.
But, could it turn violent? I guess that depends on whether the citizens of our country realize what they run the risk of losing before it is too late. The bigger governemnt gets the more rights we lose as citizens.
20Broadsword: my thought exactly. I realized the other day that I really must put spray paint on my shopping list.
Do answer the RQ: “Could Americans’ discontent turn violent?” Yes.
Carl@3
by simply throwing them out of office, not by engaging in street warfare.
a) if it was simple, we’d have done it – 98%+ re-election for incumbents – enabling recidivism by design;
b) the street warfare will be between US and the opforces bribed / ordered to protect those who don’t wish to be thrown out.
History is repleat with hundreds of examples of tyranny and how it came about. Few examples exist for resisting the socialist takeover, and we are about to be removed from that very short list.
Since b) looks now like a 52% majority, I’ll go out on a limb and predict this will be a battle of historic proportions, or it won’t. We’ll soon know which.
A third party ain’t gonna’ happen. Election law is rigged. Districts are gerrymandered. You BELONG to the elected-class. Get used to it.
The current administration is creating an environment similar to Chicago style politics which is essentially a “Single Party Democracy.” So anyone that says it can’t happen I say it has happened already and our Commander and Chief has intimate details of how it operates. I believe based on his attempts to control the census, the way he’s crashing our system with his spending (search CLOWARD-PIVEN STRATEGY), his control over the propaganda networks, the unionization of our work force and his prior associations that he is attempting to install a “Single Party Socialist Republic” I don’t think most Americans will allow that to happen…I know I won’t.
As a USAF veteran, I once worked in Nevada overseeing the 3.1 million acre training range. One of my duties was to direct the process to extend the withdrawal of this public property from public use so as to be used as the Nellis Training Range. My duties required me to drive up to the range area thus passing through several small towns along the way. I was assigned an unmarked old Chevy Blazer and told to wear civilian attire, preferably jeans and t-shirts. This was because the local populace was prone to shoot at Bureau of Land Management vehicles or any government vehicle and sometimes fired at those in the vehicles. These incidents were few and no one was usually hurt but in the more pleasant economic times of the late 1990s there was this malevolence toward the government.
Pardon the language, but only a fool says that the US society is beyond using violence as a response. Humans have a breaking point and most intelligent writers know this. My favorite line from Machiavelli’s “The Prince” is the warning to never harm a man’s wife or daughters. To do so removes the last impediment to him using his last breath of life in defeating the ruling authority. In our short history I recall the Whiskey Rebellion, a small Massachusetts rebellion over property being seized by the government, the “60s, Watts, Kansas in the 1850s, the Revolution and let’s not forget that small event called the Civil War. Humans are human and all have a tipping point. It may take more in today’s society to tip but it can tip. Unfortunately, humans are prone to follow anyone promising better times, more prosperity, hope and change. This message has resonated with humans since Adam and Eve ate the fruit. Read Kipling’s “Female of the Species” then ask if there is some smooth talking, charismatic, and manipulating person in the US just waiting for the right moment to grasp the ring of power. Let’s hope the ballot box will be the tool of change.
47. The rioters will be the unemployed and welfare poor who suddenly find themselves without power during the hot summer months.
That’s it exactly. Rather than violent rebellion from the middle class, we are more likely to see an increase in violent crime from the “lower class.”
We all have to eat, even thugs and low-lifes. And if they cannot get their money the honest way, with a real job, they will take it the dishonest way. Robberies, thefts, and burglaries are likely to rise.
Meanwhile, the otherwise non-criminal poor will eventually get frustrated — after having their resentments pumped up and up and up by Obama — and a riot will break out. Then, as we saw in New Orleans and in Los Angeles during the OJ riots, the entitlement class will begin looting. We saw it in the late 60s, we will see it again.
RAH@11
Constitutional Covention? Does the Left get to vote in what they anticipate will be final one? Don’t we want to prohibit they’re doing what they are not only intent on, but-damn-well-succeeding in doing, forever into the future?
That make’s US into a one party political system, either way it turns out, no?
Old Soldier (22):
The myth that the colonists beat the British through guerilla tactics with their squirrel guns is just that: a myth. The British were beaten through a combination of good generalship by George Washington, good training by Von Steuben, and good diplomacy (getting France involved) by Franklin. The “conservatives” that you mention are not organized nor are they trained. They couldn’t hold off a SWAT team, much less an armored brigade.
Do you really want to stand a chance? Join the state National Guard en-masse and get the weapons and training that you really need. Then
get out there, vote as a block, and make sure that the state governor is one of you. As I posted before: Organize, Advertize, Prosylize. Pool your funds to make sure that the MSM isn’t the only one telling the story; heck, pool your funds and buy a local paper or TV station! Make sure that your state is ready, willing, and able to stand against the Federal Government. It’s the only way that will work.
Ya just gotta ask yourself… are you still glad that you voted for Obama? Well … are you??????????
Carl@3
See the recent election in Michigan. Franken did not win legitimately.
Re #59. Minnesota, not Michigan. Sorry.
Our President has shown in the first 50 days that he is a true FOLLOWER of the very far left liberals. He has not stood up to Nancy Pellosi or Harry Reed or any of the remaining Democrats. There is no leadership here and certainly no coherent direction for our Markets and businesses. As long as this persists the Markets will fall and the businesses will contract. That contraction and/or bankruptcy of businesses will of course include more layoffs. Now the President is turning his attention to Healthcare (one of the few remaining successful parts of our economy). Meddling there will no doubt greatly expand the unemployment roles.
At some point our Follower in Chief will lose the support of the people. I doubt the propaganda will save him. Even some Democrats in the Senate and Congress are feeling the pressure to move to a position that will help our economy and protect our rights as citizens. I just hope the people don’t let this go on too long.
Paul – I’m a veteran of two military services. The American military will not turn on the populace – the NCO ranks – the glue that holds the military together – is very conservative and will probably join the revolution.
The conservatives I mentioned are trained and could hold off a SWAT team. I’ve had the same training.
We took an oath to protect and uphold the Constitution – not to any politician or government.
I work for a county welfare department in California. During our recent budget meltdown, the state stopped sending the counties money to pay for cash welfare and food stamps. The counties had to fund this until the state budget was passed. We were not sure we could afford to do this more than one month, and I sat in several meetings where we seriously discussed how many cops it would take to protect our building and staff if the welfare cash was not there on the first of the month
The urban underclass is just one missed welfare payment away from turning into a raging mob. And all their gang friends have guns. Lots and lots of guns.
@12
“People can be quite passionate about their childen’s future.” I’m almost sure that nearly all of the kulaks felt that way, and were slaughtered nevertheless. Obstructionists all!
“Unless congress sobers up real fast, it’s gonna get ugly at lot sooner than many people would like to believe.” No one ever sobers up from being intoxicated with power, at least not by negotiation.
Look to 2010 as the last best hope for saving our Republic without real bloodshed, and that’s only if the fighting doesn’t break out sooner. Some of US “get it” already.
And, should we get the opportunity in 2010, we must as Newt Gingrich contends unseat EVERY lawmaker that voted for the Stimulus – without reading it or, we’ll have failed to get the message across. Naturally, those in power from both parties of overlords will oppose such a plan in concert, unconstrained in their use of our money to insure it fails.
Cogg@15
Those 1 million armed gang-bangers now infesting our cities; whose side will they take? And, that male-half of the 20M-30M illegals? The 10,000 Hamas fighters being imported; where will their sympathies lie?
Won’ they form the fist units in our National Security Force?
You would be surprised in what the majority of Americans would give up for the illusion of “Personal Peace and Affluence”. I say an illusion because that is what the current Office Holder promised and he got nearly 53% of the vote.
As too the other propositions mentioned here any and all are possible. I live in an extremely conservative area and trust when I say these people are ready to go to war if they have too. None want it but they will fight if they have too. The calculus has changed in this country so I wouldn’t count on conventional wisdom holding true for the future. We probably have until the 2012 elections to change things politically, if not all bets are off for a peaceful resolution of the growing differences in this country.
I’m with #63, Old Soldier. And a veteran too. Let’s get a couple of facts straight here. One, we conservatives will not rise up without a very sound, Constitutional reason. We are not rabble who would riot like the animals in L.A. did. We’re not going to lead food riots. We will take care of people and make sure that our neighbors are alright. We’d even protect liberals and make sure they don’t starve.
Two, the military will not turn against the people. If the grievance is sound and the government egregious in its offense, they will be on our side, not the usurper’s.
But when we are moved to action, watch out. Politicians and Leftists had better skeedaddle out of the country. You can be sure that we’ll provide a lot of work for carpenters building scaffolds.
A couple of points.
Previous wars were fought by citizens familiar with hardship at many levels, raised with a level of respect for their neighbors. (I recognize this is a broad brush, but there is truth to it just the same) We are now two generations into a period where government has largely removed real hardship from the vocabulary (saw a posted picture the other day of a guy in a soupline, on his cellphone). Expectations of what government can do are very high in most people under 40.
We also are in a time where well-raised, affluent kids of good families think nothing of going out to the local club in a group; not to get drunk or picked up, but to get into a fight with absolute strangers. Many of the inhibitions (manners) of former generations are largely gone. How will this effect peoples’ reactions?
There are ways to fight without violence.
Fight with your voice.
Fight with your own blog.
Fight with your intellect.
Fight with your vote.
NEVER be silenced and ALWAYS be prepared for the worst. If our freedom is at stake then we should fight with everything we’ve got and hopefully violence will be a last resort and NOT a first response.
Red,
“We are in uncharted waters.”
Only if you haven’t been paying attention. Many here and elsewhere have rattled off hundreds of examples of this scenario playing out before; so far never to a good conclusion. Even cursory forensics produce overwhelming evidence that the Left is responsible for 250 million murders, maybe more…without adding abortion? Note: The overlords haven’t all been into precision accounting like der Furher, so bodycounts are only accurate to +/- 0.3345469695%.
Does anyone remember the gas shortages of the 70s?
Doesn’t take long for guns to be drawn…it happened then and it will happen even sooner now…
40. Rotwang:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEnNYN8sKbQ&feature=related
Another thought comes to mind ( I sometimes have more than one a day)
Parliament (in Canada) or Congress in the States is responsible for making legislation. When these Countries and their form of government were established, these houses were populated in large part by successful members in the community, sometimes lawyers, but often common men, business people and clergy.
I defy even most lawyers to read the laws that have been written in the pasts 30 years and make sense of them. The tax acts are good examples; apparently many legislators are unable to understand them.
When times are good, common men will resent the courts and their decisions, the resulting costs and injustices, but live with them because they can afford it.
When times are bad, the fact that some jackass judge agreed with some jackass lawyer about some jackass law that is written in such a way to be interpreted multiple ways and misunderstood by most; these same common men will resort to less subtle ways of handling disputes. Vigilante action will become common as unresolved (perceived or real) injustices go unanswered in the courts.
Regardless of who wins in this ‘revolution’, there is a strong need for a committee of citizens with IQ’s of 100 – 125, no lawyers or judges allowed, to review the laws on the books. Where they are deemed unnecessary, get rid of them. Where they are deemed difficult to understand, they must be rewritten to be clear to the common man. Any new laws on the books must meet the same test.
This alone should save enough money/increase real production enough to eliminate any operating deficit.
#s63 and 67 OLD SOLDIER and FRED:I think it’s time to set out what constitution-threatening thresholds would have to be crossed before political dissent should shift into open rebellion. One: would be the suppression of talk radio,and blogs (for whatever reason),two, would be the seizure of 401ks for the purpose of “funding” social security, three, would be the illlegal seizure of privately held firearms.you are all welcome to suggest others.Hoewever one important principle to remember is that any interpretation of the first and second amendments by an Obama extreme court, to cross above thresholds should be considered as incipient Stalinism,and of no legitimacy whatever.We need to consider non violent civil disobedience as a tool of resistance.
True Americans need not be afraid of the conservatives and their allies. We are not into looting and robbing. It’s not in our dna. I’m not sure if the gangbanging thugs know how well-armed, trained, and disciplined we are. Very many of us are military veterans, so we understand something about discipline, good order, and tactics.
The gangstas can thump their chests and shout their slogans all they want.
We conservatives are often quiet men, who stand at attention when the flag is unfurled and love our country and its people. Many of us go to church, and we take the Gospel seriously, which means while we may be forced into armed conflict we will not behave like wild, city thugs.
TO: JAFO
RE: TARGET!!!
Cease fire.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Good shoot’n, JAFO.
To arms, to arms ye brave! The Avenging Sword unsheathe! March on, march on, all hearts resolved on Victory or at least a big screen tv.
…and if we live we free ourselves, and if we die we die…we are no longer men, but pikes and guns in galt’s advancing war.
Any Germans remember Hitler’s CUS? Congress of Unity and Strength
I think today’s average American is too lazy to take up pitchforks. We will gripe, but let the communists and islamists do whatever.
JACO that armed revolt against county government that took place in Athens, Tennessee in 1946 is the very EXAMPLE of what may well happen….it is a great story that has been ignored studiously….wonder why???
#74 deguello,
I agree that violence should be the last resort. Other measures and strategies should be tried and exhausted. But we cannot rule out civil war.
Most likely the bums will be on the way out, starting in 2010. The Far Left Hustle is wearing thin on the people in the Middle Muddle who were fooled by it. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me…
What I find most distressing, and last night I was pondering it while trying to settle down to sleep, is the undeniable fact that we are in a mode of civilizational suicide. This was underway long before 9/11. The disciples of Antonio Gramsci have been incredibly successful in their project. They literally have possession of the mind of every school kid in this nation. They don’t always succeed with every kid, but it is an undeniable fact that the Communists control education.
I plead with everyone here to go and google up “Antonio Gramsci” and learn about what this Italian Communist hatched, what his works are, and how even the later Soviet apparatchiks like Andropov and Gorbachev were disciples of Gramsci’s theory.
Once you become familiar with him and how this country’s Marxist intellectuals have penetrated education and media, you will then appreciate the suicidalism that Gramsci set in motion. And now we have the baying jackals of Marxism and Islam, their two packs joined, circling the victim and waiting for the right moment to finish us off.
There will be civil unrest in the future. But it will not come from the right. It will come from the left, just like a petulant child has a tantrum, when he is finally told no.
Black Bloc anarchists have been pulling off this kind of BS for years already, http://socialrupture.blogspot.com/2009/03/san-francisco-ca-anarchists-attack-kfc.html This website focuses on sabotage from the extreme left and lauds the ALF, ELF and other neo-Weather Underground cells. Remember these type of ultra-leftists intended to shut down Minneapolis-St. Paul GOP convention.
Honestly, no. We aren’t like that at all. We’re probably the most peaceful country there is in that (mob menatality) regard. However, we are desparately in need of freedom and it is being systematically taken away. We need a peaceful revolution via elections, but it’s impossible to find a leader for such a thing. Nobody on the outside of traditional politics can get in. It’s quite a situation we’ve gotten ourselves into.
Most of you people remind me (mirror-image-style) of my Lefty friends who, rejoicing in Barack’s win, say “NOW I have faith in my country again!”
To which I respond “I have faith in my country even when my side doesn’t win the election”,
which shames them into an embarassed silence. I don’t even bother asking them whether Obama’s win doesn’t prove that Bush was not a fascist tyrant dictator after all. I repeat: these are my friends, and I have no wish to humiliate them by rubbing their noses in their skewed logic.
Here’s my point: last time conservatives psyched themselves into a perfect storm of rage and despair against a liberal Washington administration, the result was Tim McVeigh. Let’s not go there again.
America NEEDS another revolution, and a violent one at that. It’s the only way to right what has, in the past century, gone horribly, horribly wrong
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure”
MarkD@29
Nicely writ, by a reasonable man. Okay, what now..now that the water temp in the pot is at 188 degrees F, and rising fast? Neeeedeeeep?
US frogs are on the menu, not voting participants in this dinner party. It’s not a rivalry, when you relinquish your property at gunpoint.
I realize for brevity’s sake you left out many more aggravants, like treating with some enemies, while outright financing others, defunding our military, decimating our nuclear arsenal, prohibiting our energy independence, facilitating “infaticide” and “eugenics” et al, so I’ll add these more to your list of concerted aggrevations, to conclude that the aggregate are intentionally malicious attacks on individual freedom. For some, perturbing to digest.
So the question is begged, my good, reasonable and patriotic fellow, “how soon do reasonableness and civility become counter-productive to our cause?” After all, it’s merely your fortune and your children’s freedoms they are rapidly negotiating away, while we bemoan that metric of fools…the fairness of it all.
#76 Chuck Pelto
Isn’t this all starting to sound familiar?
And once again the only model these farmboys have to go on is “revolution”.
Uh…gang…ditch the revolutionary meme.
What we’re looking at is a mutiny.
It does us no good to sink the nation we’re riding on, see?
We just want roast beef on Thursdays and floggings only every other Monday.
If the mutiny doesn’t work, then we steal the lifeboats and do the secession thing…let those who follow the Alleged Hawaiian get stifed with paying the bills for his shopping spree.
Already, there are rumblings in the military due to discontent over the current, phony commander-in-chief. I pray for a shake up in the military. That’s our only hope.
I can’t believe some of you think you can just “vote the bums out of office.”
Jeff K@32
Tea Party? Sending Teabags to elected officials? Why that might make them check the tracking polls, and see where they need more ACORN supporters deployed.
Get serious! Send instead something that better conveys your outrage and indicates your fuse-length. Send’em all a postcard with a “picture of a weapon” affixed, and a tagline that reads something like: This is not a real weapon – THIS TIME! or STOP OR I’LL SHOOT!
When we begin our first marches on the state capitals, we all need to carry cardboard weapons, with the same slogan…NO YOU CAN’T!
Remember, future protests may be banned as obstructionist.
Honest John,
You misunderstand me. I’m simply saying we haven’t yet reached the point at which peaceful alternatives are exhausted, and I’m a peaceful guy.
I’m not some sort of nut case. I’m a law abiding, taxpaying citizen and veteran and father. For want of a better term, someone who has invested part of his life and money in the future of this country.
There is a point beyond which I will not go. We’re not at that point now. We’re not even very close. However, I will not stand idly by and watch elections be stolen and my property confiscated.
83. MIke Reynolds:
“Here’s my point: last time conservatives psyched themselves into a perfect storm of rage and despair against a liberal Washington administration, the result was Tim McVeigh. Let’s not go there again.”
~
Mike,
C’mon… Comparing an AMERICAN revolt against what Zero is doing to Tim McVeigh killing innocent people? UGH! NO!
Violence is always a last resort as it should be for any thinking person with a conscience. I have faith in my God and I have hope for our country to survive this power grabbing maelstrom by the left whackos but I’m scared as HELL. How many of us are truly equipped to protect our Constitution and protect each other? I will ALWAYS share with my [liberal] neighbors and help protect them just as I’m sure they would do the same for me.
Some of us have gotten soft and too comfortable. I’d like to think that some of us still have some fight in us. When it comes right down to it we are fighting for everything our beloved Country is SUPPOSED to stand for…our individual LIBERTY.
Today 0bama signed an executive order ending a ban on federal funding for research on stem cell research. That means my money and your money will pay for medical/science practices that are against my beliefs. I’m sickened and saddened.
TO: Mike Reynolds
RE: Tim McVeigh Scenario, Eh?
You mean the one guy of two in a truck that blew up a building in OKC? At the same time that certain parties were pushing an Omnibus Anti-Terrorism bill through Congress?
Can you say, “Reichstag Fire”?
I knew you could.
On the other hand….
Stop me if you’ve heard this one before….
When in the course of human events……
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.]
geoffgo (85):
More to the point, why is it that many of the bloggers here are giving up on the process. I don’t see anyone here that says: “Let’s take over the Republican Party, I’m running for office, vote for me.”
Old Soldier (63) is a case in point. Not that I disagree with him, heck, I’m a member of the NRA myself. But what has he done to combat the problem in the first place? Has he – or any of the other conservative bloggers – run for office? Worked in a campaign? Monitored voting places? If 1% of the conservatives in Minnesota had volunteered to monitor voting places and track ballots, we wouldn’t have the problem with Franken stealing the votes in the first place.
Old Soldier: if you and your friends are as conservative as you claim, then there should be no Democrat in political office in your entire state. Pool your income, find a decent candidate, and take over the system from the inside. I’m not saying that the guns won’t be necessary, but please don’t bunker down and do nothing until they are.
Remember, folks, the Socialists have spent the last 50 years planning this, infiltrating our society. We can best start by playing their own game against them.
geoffgo,
When political alternatives are exhausted – oh, say the entire country starts turning Philadelphia, with more votes than adults, and my 401K gets nationalized to save socialized medicine or Anwar or solve global warming, then I’m looking to more effective means to assert the inalienable rights guaranteed to me by my creator.
#83….So you’re basically advocating that we sit back on our laurels and wait this out? Seriously? Apparently you’ve got money buried in your backyard or something. My savings and investments are quickly dwindling away. My civil rights are being extinguished daily. The GOP’s willingness to be chivalrous is what has brought us to this point. It’s time to be vocal (and worse) if necessary!
Typos@37
The Left is unable to admit their Socialist economic policies don’t work.
Oh, the Left is entirely willing to admit their socialist policies don’t work, but only when they don’t succeed in enslaving the population first, and are then forced to issue formal apologies for their evil behavior. In too few cases it seems, from the scaffold.
The left believes their day has come. They are pushing us to the edge of the cliff, but even then we will not fight.
However, the market is bigger than the left can understand. The current polices of covering up the corruption and adding to the exponential debt will explode the bond market and the government will be broke. No free cheese for the rats, no checks for the grifters and gimme-girls.
Then the violence will commence, as the freeloaders rampage, and then the decent people of America will finally fight back. The result will be a cleansing, a reckoning.
The agitators of the left will see something they never expected, right before they die.
1. I think everyone is missing the point that Conservatives are ALREADY revolting by “Going Galt.” The market and economy have been hammered as of late because we are walking away with our wallet.
2. Which party consistently disenfranchises military voter strength? Democrats.
3. In Southern California, 8000-15000 people protested this weekend AGAINST the political power structure due to profligate spending.
4. I don’t think most liberals/socialists truly understand the seriousness of those that serve in the military when those individuals take an oath to the Constitution, not a messianic president, clepto-cratic congress, nor a bloated bureaucracy.
5. Weapon sales, weapon sales, weapon sales.
What scares me the most about the times we are in right now is that almost all of the talking heads on the TV news programs are so disconnected from average people in America. For people making less than $30,000 a year in this country, they know they’ll always have a friend in Socialists like Obama. They want and and crave all of the many Government handouts that Obama is more than willing to give them. What they don’t understand is that the rest of the country is going broke trying to pay for all of these handouts. And with the stock market going through the floor, IRAs and 401Ks now almost worthless, inflation ready to take off, and unemployment going up and up, it’s not going to take much to push people over the edge.
The major difference between this economic downturn and others is that the American people (rightly or wrongly) actually believed that the party that was out of power could always come back and clean up the mess that was made by the party that was in power. But average people today see both parties as two heads on the same coin, corrupt, selfish, opportunists who are more interested in getting re-elected than actually accomplishing anything while in power. People may just get fed up with the Federal Government and may just stop taking any of their orders, like the South did in 1861. Unless Washington does something FAST to stop this train wreck from happening, we are not going forward to 2010, but backwards to 1861, only this time there won’t be any states supporting Washington. It will be every state for itself. God help us if it ever comes to that.
“His forces slaughtered 2,000 British soldiers two weeks after the war was over”
Neither the American nor the British forces knew that the war was over! It took roughly two months for the news of the Ghent agreement to reach the United States.
James@41
The problem is that no politician is going to step up this early for fear of peaking too soon.
Is that acting like the-frog-in-the-pot? Or, is it cowardice? Or, is it complicity? Or, is it suicidal? The answer bears some on your future.
75 Fred. Thank you. Well said.
#21 warrior jason
“If our govt., regardless as to who is in charge, continues to ignore the Constitution, I hope my state, Texas secedes from this union. It’s our right”
better double check that. i do believe that is no longer accurate.
I have no idea how this will all turn out. I will offer some observations, however.
1. Donald Rumsfeld’s “unknown unknowns”. There will be many surprises going forward.
2. Obama is pushing a direction and philosophy that is counter to what the country has embraced and believed for more than 200 years. He has made many major moves in only 6 weeks. People do not like radical change by nature. They like rapid, radical change even less.
3. People are angry. That number is increasing. Angry people are unpredictable.
4. There is no revolutionary leadership. But leadership can appear quickly and from unexpected locations. Or sometimes it does not. Without it nothing of consequence will happen.
5. The second amendment exists and the population owns literally millions of firearms. Most are not owned by liberals. You are hard pressed to find ammunition on the shelves of any retailer that sells such items. 30-06 ammo is back ordered all across the country, as are other calibers. That is an incendiary and dangerous condition.
6. The military is pledged to uphold the constitution–not the government. I suspect Old soldier and fred are correct in their observations.
7. This comment thread would never have happened at any other time during the last 100 years–whether there was an internet or not. That indicates a revolutionary change in thinking, if nothing else.
8. America and Americans today are very different than other peoples in other places in other times. Historical parallels from our own past, Europe or any other culture/time do not apply.
9. Something is going to happen. It may be peaceful or it may not. I would not make any big money bets on any particular scenario.
Don’t forget the eroding protections on religion in this country. Right now in the CT legislature there is a bill that would restrict the Catholic bishops from exercising their rights as bishops in regards to how their dioceses is run (that is I think the gist of the bill..anyway..it violates our constitutional right to free practice of religion). For years there have been increased efforts by leftists to regulate and to silence religious views in this country. As another poster has said, they already control the minds of most children in this country through the schools. They have control of the culture too.
Yes, I do believe the time is becoming ripe that something of a more drastic nature must be done since the usual conventional means is more corrupt (look at the voter fraud in the last election, the election in Minnesota, etc).
I don’t want to see a violent revolution but if it must take that….then so be it.
Combustible elements, present today, have never before existed in American politics. Consider: Identity politics politicians in power (race/race backlash); incipient socialism through confiscatory taxes; cratering economy destroying trillions of dollars of American wealth.
If strong resistance to Obama’s confiscatory policies results in a decision by him to cry racism against his opponents, that could be the spark that ignites a keg of dynamite.
Paul @92
If voting could really change anything it would be a capital crime.
When nonviolent methods don’t work, violence will ensue.
Obama is tearing down the basic foundation of the United States. We are a capitalist nation and he trying to quickly move us towards socialism. History tells us that socialism is a failure. Something has to be done about a President and his political minions who are leading the country on a path of failure.
There are non-violent ways to make a difference like trying to bring down the media and Democratic politicians. But, if these methods don’t work, I believe that violence will erupt.
Liberals have never had conservatives fight back as though their life depends on it. Thus, they have no idea how bad it can be and will not be prepared to handle it. I agree with the people who said that the military is conservative. The military will probably side with the conservatives because their job is to protect the Constitution of the United States and its foundational framework. They are not enforcers of socialism so they can’t be counted on to be Obama enforcers if something like this happens. (This makes you wonder why Acorn got billions of dollars in the Economic Stimulus Package. Is it possible that some of that taxpayer money will secretly be used for arms? It’s something to think about.)
Most conservatives I know are outraged about what is happening to the United States. This rage has to go somewhere.
Already we’re seeing soaring gun sales. I don’t believe that this is a coincidence. It’s indicative of something else that is going on within the country.
No one ever thought that people would take commercial planes with passengers on them and slam them into the World Trade Center. They did. We now know that anything is possible and we shouldn’t automatically dismiss it, including the possibility of a Red State vs. Blue State civil war.
Bonnie@47
“We conservatives are stockpiling and making plans because our good policemen and National guardsmen are going to be overwhelmed, and we’ll be protecting our families and businesses” from the rioters that spill out of their turf onto ours.
As I recall the DC and LA riots, there was minimal bloodshed, due to those good police and guardsmen being able to constrain the mobs to burning down their own neighborhood slums.
But now that the target has been identified by the POTUS as evil rich white people first, then other colors and races as we get to them, I’m no longer so sure of the allegiance we can expect from “unionized police forces,” dependent entirely as they are on the gov’t for their livelyhoods.
I also recall that many police have relished their new role of Kapo; as long as they got their share of the gold fillings.
TOhio@49
Your task list is long, ambitious and not-nearly-all-inclusive.
So if we win, do you think we should ever let them run for re-election, continue to leech off society, write more lies, all to insure our eventual enslavement?
“Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by its example.”
-Timothy McVeigh at his death sentencing, quoting US Supreme Court Justice Brandeis.
It is too bad that we still do not hvave strong state governments. I would prefer secession over a revolution. I think we would be better off with the blue states out of the new union. After all, Michigan and California continue to elect idiots. Let them continue on their own course. The red states will prosper.
I think Craig is correct despite the exceptions that have been cited. There should be many, many more people turning out at the tea parties.
The US as it is constructed at present is beyond repair. Tear it down and build something new. The curent structure is full of rot.
TOhio at #107. Your scenario of red state vs. blue state civil war is flawed. Many blue states have very large center-right and conservative populations that were just edged out by the Jackasses/Socialists. Would you consign us (I live in a “blue” state, NH, that used to be “red”)to the enemy? This has everything to do with ideology and what the founding documents mean to us, and almost nothing to do with geography. We “could” say that it is rural America vs. urban America (and I have thought of this as more accurate than red state vs. blue state), but even that fails because I know that there are significant groups of people in the cities who are not on the Left and do not approve of the political direction of those around them.
Our leaders in both parties, being mainly lawyers, were trained by professors much like Obonga’s Harvard professors: they view the Constitution as a flawed anachronism and have assigned to themselves and their minions the task of making it a “living” document, bypassing the procedural process outlined in the Constitution itself for amending it. Judges/lawyers like Alito and Roberts – the recent appointees – who are strict constructionists are in the minority in the academic legal community.
Nevertheless, we must preserve both the Constitution and our union. If it comes to war, and I pray it does not, I will take my now 54 year old body and put it on the line in defense of liberty. For all Americans who share that commitment. Regardless of where they live.
I think a lot of posters are confusing hopes, wishes and reality. I have lived in isolated areas of the US and I understand the thinking that goes on there. I have also lived in urban centers and various degrees in between, and I’m telling you Americans coming together for revolution is not in the reality flowchart. Many of the ancient situations stated as example are completely impossible now for a variaty of reasons, the first and most important of which is that the leftists have had the schools for at least two generations. Do not assume all Americans you see feel the same sense of patriotism, self preservation and have an active moral compass. Many look right, but have been indoctrinated and miseducated into a confused, hateful pod person.
I don’t have a suggestion how to apply sufficient force to the political system so that people will be able to reform it. It may break on it’s own so bad the current leaders may grab what they can and run. It’s hard to tell what to plan for when the bottom we’re falling towards is obscured by darkness. I do know there is a large difference between the tea party crowds of wholesome families and men in war paint plotting violence. I hope you have a lot of smores schnapps, your going to need it.
If you are following the underground movement and know the current state of the military… you know the military is trying very hard to fix things without having it coming to open civil war.
This can be seen at sites such as http://defendourfreedoms.us/ which has over 100 soldiers filing suit against obama… the number is growing almost daily.
Another site http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/ is going in depth with legal research to hopefully find a way to not just remove obama but void the whole election. They also hope to keep the military out of the suit since anyone signing up for any lawsuit against obama could face “actions” against them by both the military as well as the obama government.
Those that think wide scale civil war could never happen… history says other. The military is very split on obama and its highly doubtful that they will freely join him. The real spark would be any action to grab guns up… should that happen/obama try to enforce marshal law because of the economy it will quickly turn into a wide scale shooting contest. The simple fact is obama is trying everything he can to goat the military and ex-military into open conflict. The fact that he plays these games with his birth cert and other info clearly shows he not only doesn’t care that the military or ppl doubt him but he is actively encouraging it. The US is a powder keg just looking to explode and obama can easily supply the match.
TO: geoffgo
RE: The LA Riots of ’92
I seem to recall the story of one Korean businessman who defended his property and livelihood from the roof with a high-powered rifle.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion....in private self-defense. -- John Adams]
P.S. Not that the idiots in New Orleans ever read anything by the good man.
I see a lot of hysteria here and I don’t like it. The thought of Americans killing Americans turns my stomach. If you want to revolt, vote in the next election. That’s the American way, vote out the party you don’t like . This kind of dialogue is exactly what the left says is wrong with the right. Don’t give them an excuse to take away your hard earned liberties.
America doesn’t need a revolution, it needs a solution. Discontent is already growing with the left. We’ll get our vote and a return to a centerist government. We don’t need an extreme right or an extreme left running this country. The term is balance. We’re still all Americans.
#97 thaDeetz writes:
“In Southern California, 8000-15000 people protested this weekend AGAINST the political power structure due to profligate spending.”
‘Deetz, you make some good points, particularly echoing the refrain heard multiple times in this thread about the run on guns and ammunition.
Most often refer to California as the bellweather for how sorrowful liberal largess and failure to care for its people has run an affluent economy into the ground. Well, it just might be where good people first make their stand against this silly man in the White House with just such demonstrations.
I made my way over to the noontime eatery here in Orange, California just a few moments ago and saw a notice from the FTB tacked up un the door informing us that the sales tax rate was going up to 9%+ in April. This is of course, in concert with the high income taxes and useage fees we pay here in the “Golden” state. There’s a lot of us here who are on high simmer and it ain’t getting any cooler.
I am struck, by the way, by the collective (justifiable) anger here and absence of the gutless trolls in this thread. My take is that is what will happen when we, the people, do hit the streets en masse.
Like someone says, when folks are out of work then they have a lot of time to protest.
Enough with this Chicken Little rubbish. I hated this sort of banter from the left the 8 years Bush was in office, and now I think the right has gone above and beyond what the left spat out and the guy has been in office less than 90 days.
You can’t even admit Obama’s election is the result of the hangover of the past 8 years.
You know what’s going to happen during these times? The status quo. Our nation has become too fat, lazy, and indifferent to change it. In a way I wish there was a shakeup to help bring us back to fighting weight. Overall though, much of the same is going to occur. I don’t expect to see well-groomed youngsters with popped polo collars manning the baracades in the streets anytime soon. The GOP and their supporters like sameness.
Democracy means 50% of the time you’ll be disappointed, so now is the Republicans’ turn. Ride it out and give us someone other than that lameduck Palin in 4 years.
Pops in Vienna,
This isn’t going to be about Jeff Davis in Richmond and the South Carolina legislature in Charleston. Thinking regionally is a defective logic. I understand the concept of wanting to drain power from the federal government, and for sure a definite amount of that process is going to have to occur. But this is more about the fruits of Antonio Gramsci’s program at work across and within the entire country and culture. His fingerprints are to be found at Ole Miss as they are at U. Chicago. And in almost every classroom in grades K – 12 across the nation.
Before we proceed with a remedy, it is best to understand the nature of the problem and the complexities of the infection before we proceed with the surgery.
TOhio ” We now know that anything is possible and we shouldn’t automatically dismiss it, including the possibility of a Red State vs. Blue State civil war.”
I hope it doesn’t come to that since I have sons living in Blue States and I’m in a Red State….they too are conservatives and I worry about them if things do come to this.
By the way, who is buying up the guns and ammo? Is it Acorn?
Test time, and I have not done my homework.
There is an unstated assumption that the current leaders are sane. Making this is a good time to make a reference to the movie “The Caine Mutiny”, except I have not seen the film.
If the current batch of leaders are sane and competant, there shall be no revolt.
I expect the cause belli to be given to the conservatives in 18 months, and the revolt to be started by those now denying that it will occur.
It will be interesting to watch.
TO: Bilgeman
RE: It’s Muteny….
….Mister Christean. Muteny.
Where’s captain Bligh when we REALLY need him. But I’d prefer Quig and his steel balls vs. a bucket of strawberries.
RE: There IS a ‘Difference’
You sailors and mutiny-think.
How can you take a state out of the Union?
I remember Mr. Pettigru of Charleston, South Carolina, when he heard that the state had voted to ‘secede’….
We, as a viable nation, cannot survive without the rest of the parts. That was proven during the course of the Civil War of the 19th Century, when the North and South were trading with each other for their economic goods while their men were dying on the battlefields. [Note: Read Catton's Centennial Trilogy for the details.]
Secession would only lead to Civil War again, one way or another. And, just as a note of historic significance, our Civil War did not ‘sink the nation’.
No. Mere mutiny would not necessarily work. Not as long as evil people hold places of power in the federal government.
RE: An Historical Point
Back in the Wilson Administration, several months before the outbreak of World War I, we had a rebellion here in Colorado. It’s called the Colorado Coalfield War. Part of the rebellion was the infamous Ludlow Massacre, where the Colorado Militia, slaughtered a number of men, women and children in an encampment. [Note: Sound anything like Waco?] You can read about it HERE.
In this instance it was big business, backed by state government against a group of people.
In a possible future scenario it would be federal government against a LOT of people. And hopefully, the people wouldn’t behave like the kulaks of 1920s Russia.
The Colorado Coalfield War demonstrates that the fighting spirit existed back then. And, based on some of what I’ve read here, it STILL exists.
RE: Mutiny Revisited
Mutiny is going ‘John Galt’. And a lot of people may go that route, but as I pointed out in item #12 of this thread, socialist governments have a proven effective response to that…..kill them and seize their property. And they can do it, ‘legally’, by fait accompli of legislation.
The problem is how to recognize the situation developing BEFORE it becomes ‘too late’. And then how to fend it off and stop any future effort.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[History repeats itself.]
TO: Middleman
RE: Yeah?
Show me where we here have called for snipers vis-a-vis the President? Go on. I defy you.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Some people are soooooo 'stupid'.]
The article states:
Never in my lifetime have I seen the nation as ripe for a third-party takeover as it is now. But if President Obama and the Democratic Congress further propel the economy down a rat hole, the party that emerges might not be the kind we want. There would be just enough truth in the charge for a demagogue to portray the shambles as the fault of those who took sub-prime mortgages they knowingly couldn’t afford and the bankers who greedily lent them the money. In other words, minorities and Jews. This could become very ugly, very quickly.
You basically just called middle-class Americans violent racists. That is untrue and despicable. While we might see isolated individuals, as you suggest, tossing bricks at soon-to-be foreclosed houses, I think it’s highly unlikely we’ll see the kind of widespread violence your article implies. To assume that ordinary Americans are one paycheck away from joining the Klan is disingenuous, foolish, bigoted and wrong.
This is for Old Soldier, Fred, or any other similar folks.
I was hoping the election would turn out differently last Nov, that more rational American voters prevail than the Hope and Change outcome. That an Obama Presidency won’t be as transforming our society as the past 6 weeks would indicate.
As a result, I put off acquiring a gun and ammunitions to go with it. Now I realize I don’t have time to research what guns (or types of guns) best fit my need, etc. and even if I know what I want, I might not be able to purchase them. Let alone be proficient at using them.
For regular folks that never touched a gun, that rely on the law and law-abiding folks like me, what is your best advice at this point?
Stockpiling on ready-to-eat food, some cash, and etc. I can do, but how about protecting ourselves?
“Speak softly and carry a REALLY big stick.”
Don’t get too excited with your video-game fantasies. Remember that irregular warfare is one of the few things Marxists are good at.
To 125. always right
Since you are not trained by the military and may not have the money nor time to train yourself/be helped by others. The simplest and cheapest weapon to learn is the shotgun. It is the classic home defense weapon and it can fire a range of ammo from buck/bird shot, solid shot, non-lethal, and “show” rounds. Shotgun ammo is really cheap plus you can buy clay pigeons(ie sporting targets) and a launcher for about 50 buck(and have about 50 disks). Not only is it fun you will learn very quickly how to fire a weapon without any formal training. Sport shooting was standard training in the army for decades.
Just move your money out of B of A to your local bank.
Don’t buy a GM vehicle.
Both firms are already getting blowback from the bailouts.
Time to force GM into bankruptcy and other firms as well by boycotting their products.
TO: deguello, et al.
RE: Basic Position
Good idea. I’ve been calling for that myself.
My concern is that we might find that all the conditions have already been ‘met’.
RE: Condition #1
Freedom of speech and the press ARE essential and overt efforts to stifle such would be a key indicator.
RE: Condition #2
Not too sure about this one. I don’t recall where 401k monies are protected by the Constitution of the United States.
RE: Condition #3
I don’t think seizure alone is justification. Albeit it IS justification. I would also include acts by the government that prohibit law-abiding individuals from owning weapons to protect themselves. Case in point, you can’t own a pair of numchuks in New York state. Oopsie!
I also consider the legalistic approach currently being attempted in Illinois to prevent people from owning firearms as such an indicator. In that case, they are thinking every firearms owner MUST have $1M worth of insurance. This means that only the rich can afford to own such a weapon.
This too is a violation of the spirit of the Second Amendment.
RE: Conditions #n
There are a number of other indicators that could be considered ‘triggers’. One of them is addressed below.
Others deserve enumeration. They could include things like outright violation of the Constitution wherein neither the Congress nor the Supreme Court act in accordance with what the reasonably prudent individual would consider ‘proper’, in response.
Say evidence that the President of the United States was not born in Hawaii, but in Kenya.
RE: Men In Black
I think, based on ruling like Kelo v. New London which clearly is a violation of the Bill of Rights Fifth Amendment and an end run by the Supremes vis-a-vis the Fourteenth Amendment regarding the legal use of Eminent Domain, is something of an ‘indicator’ that we cannot trust the courts anymore.
RE: Non-Violence
Always a good option, however, if they start killing you, what do you do?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth. -- George Washington]
always right: Carbines (low-powered, semi-auto rifles) are the easiest to learn to shoot well in my opinion. Pistols are very hard. Shotguns and hi-powered rifles are a handful.
M1 carbines whether old surplus or new from Auto-Ordnance are great little rifles. Pistol caliber (9mm / .40 cal) carbines from Kel-Tec, Hi-Point, and Beretta are also great. Accurate to 100+ yards. Read some reviews – you will probably have to order one and wait a while.
To 125. Always Right
An inexpensive 12 gauge shotgun, like a Mossberg 590. It’s hard to miss with it and it is not overly complicated. 12 Gauge ammo is plentiful. Google an online cleaning guide, and buy a bottle of Breakfree CLP to wipe it out. That’s the simple, starter version of gun nut. Learn gun safety by taking an NRA gun safety class. Buy hearing protection, extra ammo, eye protection, and find a practice range. Obey the range rules. Once your comfort level is high with safety, the noise and smoke and general experience, you can graduate to rifles and pistols. Usually you would start with a small calibar rifle, but your first goal is to be competant at home defense.
Opinions will usually be different on guns, like horses and cars. The paragraph above is how I taught myself guns from scratch as a city raised adult with no experience at all.
TO: [not] always right
RE: Sound Advice
Be prepared.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Chance favors the prepared mind. -- Louis Pasteur]
always right,
I purchased a pistol back in the Fall of 2007, because I was expecting the outcome that prevailed in November of 2008. Even back then, gun sales were brisk but there was adequate inventory. Now, even buying ammo for my 30-30 Winchester and 270 Savage is not easy, and those are NOT semi-automatic rifles. I have checked everywhere, just out of curiosity, to see if there are any 223 riles (223 is the kind of ammo used by a military-like rifle)available and everywhere they are sold out. And they will cost well over a thousand bucks. I’m not in the market to buy one of those; I have other priorities. Firearms of all kinds now are in short supply. So, yes, you are probably too late. But, rest assured, if hell happens (Please, I hope it doesn’t and we can resolve this at the ballot box sans the “support” from ACORN)you may be able to pick up weapons the enemy may leave on the ground.
The best advice I would give you and to everyone else: let us keep this option (civil war and rebellion)open, but the last resort. Let’s get to work trying to influence people and finding candidates who are true conservatives and advance them.
As for having emergency items in your home. Good idea. We should all do that as a matter of course, if for no other reason than for the possibility of natural disasters that can and do happen. Back in December where I live we had a very bad ice storm that left us without power for days.
Anyone having any luck finding ammo? I’ve had some luck, but it is getting more expensive all the time and am considering the idea of reloading and learning how to do it.
43. Mongoose:
“Honest Jon: It is the politicization of mortgages that has brought us down, not the “greed” of bankers as a group.”
You’re partially incorrect. You’re partially correct, as well. The CRA, Bawney Fwank, Chris Dudd, et al certainly did have some impact, to be sure, but nobody FORCED anyone to take a subprime mortgage.
Greedy bankers and Wall-Streeters were surely partially to blame. In essence, they bundled all these subprime morts together (in securities (or should it be insecurities?)) and the rating agencies rated them AAA (essentially no risk) while the CEOs of these investment banks looked only to the short term profits and not to the long term viability of their companies. They overleveraged themselves to obscene levels to enhance their bonuses-and damn the consequences-because by the time the rubber met the road, they would have made their millions. And they did.
Many of the recipients of the subprime morts also are to blame for taking out a mort that they could never hope to afford. “Flippers” (read greedy buyer/resellers who had no intention of ever living in the homes they bought) also contributed to the difficulties we are experiencing.
So, it’s not just the politicization of the mortgage industry that is to blame.
regards
89. MarkD: “Honest John…”
I apologize if I misunderstood you. I was mostly agreeing with you.
You wrote, “We’re not even very close. However, I will not stand idly by and watch elections be stolen and my property confiscated.”
Once again, I agree. It’ll take quite a few bread lines and lots of folks living in shelters for there to be a violent revolution in the US. We’re just not that violent of a country.
I assume you’re in the productive class, not in the entitlement class. But now, you may very well be outnumbered by the ticks on your rump. Ben Franklin, among others, said that democracy can only survive as long as the common folk (underclass) don’t realize that they can vote themselves into wealth and vote others out of it. That may have already happened. If so, woe unto us!
regards
Thanks all for your advice.
I truly hope we don’t come to the ‘boiling’ point.
After reading Mr. Krumm’s article and comments I must admit I am shocked. In my 57+ years I never thought I would be digesting the change in my country or the dangerous political climate ahead. I don’t think about retirement anymore. I plan on stocking up on foods, water and fuels. I see unrest ahead. Dang.
MarkD@89
Okay, while you idled, your vote has been stolen and your property confiscated. Now what? And, our peaceable response is what the Left anticipates, in fact requires to ensalve you. Now what?
What a bunch of infants.
A month into a new presidency, and you’re screaming like children. A new conspiracy theory every minute, each more laughable than the last. You folks can’t even get a grip on reality long enough to even define why you hate the President – Is he a street thug or an ivy league silver-spoon elite? Is he a marxist or a fascist? You can’t even settle on a consistent slur. And now that it appears that your crazy theories about his false birth or his socialistic tendencies are not sticking as you hoped, you’re going off the deep end with tantrums about how a violent revolution is inevitable.
You say you love Democracy, but how eager you all are to enact this appallingly deluded fantasy of playing revolutionary war, killing and assassinating those who don’t agree with you. How despicable. You say you’re sworn to uphold the contistution, but everyone here knows it’s all total BS. You’re just sworn to uphold your own ideology and party, which is completely separate from the Constitution and from most Americans’ values. You really don’t care about the country, you just care about being in control of it. If the extent of “Freedom” to you consists of having the right to stockpile weapons in your basement for some coming war with minorities and marxists, then you obviously have a very infantile view of freedom.
If you truly love Freedom and Democracy, you’ll be rational adults and accept that you’ll have a president that you don’t agree with for four years, which is very far from the end of the world. To hear some of you loonies, you’d think that Obama had already executed his dastardly coup and declared himself supreme dictator.
I know that a lot of you have this romantic wish to die in a blaze of glory fighting the wicked communists, but your fantasy belies a hard truth that when the guns start firing, you right-wingers will end up killing innocent civilians like the victims of the Oklahoma City bombing, like the liberal radio host who was gunned down in his driveway and like those poor churchgoers who were gunned down by a right-wing extremist last year.
And once you start killing innocents, as you inevitably will, you’ll just be exposed yet again as the psychopathic thugs we always knew you were.
@Honest Jon
You may be confusing Franklin with Tocqueville who wrote in Democracy in America the following: “The American Republic will endure until the Congress discovers it can bribe the American people with the public’s money.”
Are we there yet?
MarkD@93
Well, those may be a reasonable lines-in-the-sand for you to draw. However, those have proven ALWAYS to be too late to effect the change you’re implying, so where’s the safety in that position?
TO: always right….albeit a tad ‘late’
RE: Good Advice — Part 2
“As for having emergency items in your home. Good idea. We should all do that as a matter of course, if for no other reason than for the possibility of natural disasters that can and do happen.” — old soldier, to always right
Someone should tell you about the 10 classes of supply:
1 — Food, self evident [Note: A quart of wheat and 1.7 gallons of water, per day, in a temperate environment.]
2 — Clothing, self evident, but consider all times of the year or wherever you might find yourself
3 — Fuel, self evident for mobility, but also consider fuel for generators and oil lamps
4 — Personal Equipment, special belts, back-packs, sleeping bags, tents, flashlights, etc.
5 — Ammunition, self evident
6 — Personal Demand, cigars, booze, feminine products, toilet paper
7 — Major End Items, vehicles, generators, weapons, radios,
8 — Medical, pills, salves, bandages, equipment, etc.
9 — Repair Parts, things that are used to fix things in category 7.
10 — Civil Demand, shovels, axes, barbed wire, etc.
These are the classes of supply that the military uses to think about all the things they need for an operation. Even just trying to ‘maintain’. You and others would be wise to think in similar terms when trying to figure out just what you might need to survive….either a blizzard or other things where society, as we know it, just isn’t functioning quite up to our normal expectations.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Amateurs study tactics. Professional soldiers study logistics. -- Tom Clancy]
Libery@989
Yes, hundreds of our very own Bahgdad Bobs.
All this gun lore won’t count for a thing if it gets bad. Hardware is the easy part. This country has plenty of guns and lone nutcases. They won’t last a week.
Organization, that’s what wins. Make friends with some young, healthy, sane people if you want to survive. A reliable friend/ally who isn’t a drunk or lunatic is much better than a gun-nut who’ll start quoting Revelations and spraying the whole camp if he wakes up on the wrong side of the bed. The OSS found that the best assassins were not the psychos or gun nuts but self-contained, cool-headed accountant types.
This has been a point that I have raised repeatedly over the past few years: namely, that the Left’s utterly inflexible clinging to ideological dogma is steering Western Civ towards such a disaster that they are unintentionally working to bring about exactly what they fear most…a resurgence of the Far Right.
Barring a complete societal collapse – I’m talking 40% unemployment, mass starvation, etc. – the chance of all-out, armed revolution are slim at best. Western nations – and their people – are simply too pampered. The real danger lies in the political sphere…in the BNP in Britain…in the Front National in France. And if events continue along this path, what shape will it take here in the US?
Over the past two election cycles, the American people have been grossly misled by an ideologically corrupted news media – actually, they’ve been corrupt since at least the 60s, but never to this extent. But as the recent economic turmoil is so clearly demonstrating, there are immutable laws to existence…and no amount of spinning, lying, or double-talk can change them.
The Obama-Pelosi-Reid agenda will fail. Why? Because it’s based in Leftist ideology, which always fails eventually. And once this failure becomes painfully evident, as it is bound to over the next few years, the American people are going to completely lose faith in the legacy news media. They will begin to actively look for real information. When that happens, we win.
There is an old Chinese proverb that perfectly illustrates the fickleness of fate. Don’t lose faith, friends: Obama just may be a blessing in disguise…the final straw that breaks the Left’s back.
But a warning: we must always bear in mind that ideology is the problem, not people. We must never – in partisan furor – lose sight of the fact that we are talking about living, breathing human beings. For while the Far Left (i.e. the Idealists) is certainly dangerous, so is the Far Right (i.e. the Moralists).
A lot of posters here would do well to contemplate this warning from one of the West’s most noted conservative historians…especially those who are sounding just a bit too excited in their talk about “scaffolds” and “wild, city thugs”.
137. always right:
“Thanks all for your advice.
I truly hope we don’t come to the ‘boiling’ point.”
~
The boiling point is a long ways away… We are law abiding Americans first and foremost… I pray to our heavenly Father that the worst doesn’t HAVE to happen for our country to be saved.
85. geoffgo: Good comments!
87. Sonja: You wrote, “I can’t believe some of you think you can just “vote the bums out of office.””
It may very well be too late for that. Too many are dependent on the largesse of the gubmint. How about this: If you are on the gov’t dole (welfare, food stamps, etc.), then your privelege to vote is nullified for 2 years. THAT would make a difference!
125. always right: You wrote, “For regular folks that never touched a gun, that rely on the law and law-abiding folks like me, what is your best advice at this point?”
Buy yourself a pump 12 gauge shotgun and 4 boxes of shells. 2 boxes of 00 buck and two boxes of slugs. Take the gun and the shells to the range and shoot one box of 00 buck and one box of slugs. This will give you a good idea about the characteristics of the different rounds. When you get home, load your gun alternating with 00 buck and slugs. And wait. And pray you never have to use it! (Here’s the thing about 00 buck and slugs: they will penetrate a wall, so if somebody breaks into your home, shoot ‘em through the wall!)
regards
There is another alternative: 30 million Americans just walk out the door and never come back. Where will they go? Panama? Costa Rica? Australia? I don’t know. Someplace that respects hard work. But this isn’t 1920s Russia or 1930s Germany. Its easier than ever to move your money overseas, and then follow yourself. It starts with a second home or an overseas job, and next thing you know, you’re only in the US once a year to visit your friends and favorite places. Ask anyone from Venezuela or Cuba or Iran or Russia or India or China about how they ended up in the US, and you’ll hear some variation of a story about having few opportunities at home and better ones here, so they moved to give their family a better life. If we as a country disrespect achievers, they’ll just get on a plane and go somewhere they are wanted.
Google “Lenin”.
Then “Stalin”.
Then “Mao”.
Then “Jesusland+2004”.
Then climb back on your soapbox and preach to us about “conspiracy theories” and “killing innocent civilians”, Lefty.
141. Stephen: You may be confusing Franklin with Tocqueville who wrote in Democracy in America the following: “The American Republic will endure until the Congress discovers it can bribe the American people with the public’s money.”
Google the phrase if you’re curious (I did a couple of weeks ago (now I wish that I had saved the link)). Both men said it or something very similar, but I’m not sure who was first. Others have said the same thing, as well.
regards
Chuck,
No one has called for snipers yet, but there is a whole lot of crazy talk about guns, emergency provisions, and the big Commie takeover. I thought the 9/11 troofers were nuts, but some folks are catching up. Particularly the birth certificate crowd.
TO: always right
RE: Well….
“I truly hope we don’t come to the ‘boiling’ point.” — always right
….it, the country, doesn’t necessarily have to ‘boil over’. It could be something like a bird flu pandemic. As I recall from my discussions of this possibility with the local health department, if it comes it will be several periods of 3-4 weeks of ‘social distancing’, i.e., do NOT go out of your house unless you are involved with government services, emergency services, medical services, public utilities, or food distribution.
Then again, this could all be OBE and we’ll all be in a world of hurt….if THIS GUY is correct.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Interestingly enough seven years ago this month, I was collecting information for an issue of the Denver Chapter of Mensa’s monthly magazine, Matrix. It was all about cometary impacts and other calamities that brought civilization to its knees. The last being an event that brought on the Dark Ages. The first, in recorded history, correlating well with the collapse of Early Bronze Age civilizations around the world AND the Biblical Flood.
The research effort determined that there have been five periods in history where tree rings from around the world indicate that there was little, if any, growing season for several consecutive years. ALL OVER THE WORLD. The hypothesis is that we got smacked by a comet or asteroid. Not a dino-killer (6 km wide), but something much more significant than Tunguska.
134. fred: “Back in December where I live we had a very bad ice storm that left us without power for days.”
I’ve lived through two really bad ice storms in the past 5 years where I’m at (central KY) and it wasn’t as bad for us who live in the city as it was in the country. I was without power this latest time for about one day. It wasn’t so bad-I had plenty of books to read and an old propane heater to get me by. I learned my lesson in 2003.
“Anyone having any luck finding ammo? I’ve had some luck, but it is getting more expensive all the time and am considering the idea of reloading and learning how to do it.”
I, personally don’t need any more ammo.
I’m afraid of all the shells and FFFG gunpowder aroung here as it is. If my house caught on fire, they’d have to evacuate the whole street and just let the sucker burn!
regards
Oscar the Grump says:
“This kind of dialogue is exactly what the left says is wrong with the right. Don’t give them an excuse to take away your hard earned liberties.”
I realize you don’t “get” the irony of your remarks – but they read as the “perfect” foil for what we rail against. So you say, by exercising one’s right to be vocally displeased, even if hysterically, one provides the Left with a “legitimate” excuse to abrogate those rights? Or, is it just bound to happen?
Flyover country is populated with a few millions people from age 10-80 who have been handling guns safely since they were about 6 years old. I can guarantee you they are ready, locked and loaded, and they are not nuts.
They are not looking for an excuse. They are not right wing nut cases. But they WILL NOT sit by and watch a bunch of welfare-tit-sucking-lazy-wannabes destroy this country in the name of wealth redestribution. Most of these country boys (and most of the girls) do more physical labor before breakfast than the urban girlie-men who support obama do in 2 years at the gymn.
It is a classic silencing technique to distort what someone has said, broadcast the wrong version, and then “force them to step up and deny it” as the dweebs here who are making fun of you men (that’s spelled M-E-N) who know how to make a survival list, make your own ammunition, and are comfortable advising people on how and why to select which shotgun.
Men, you are needed. Keep talking. You and I know that nobody’s going to start shooting because “we lost an election”. If shooting ever starts, it will be to save lives and save a nation.
God help us and have mercy on us. He sure doesn’t owe us anything, so it will have to come under the label of mercy.
There are two reasons things appear to be worse in this down turn than any other post-war recession.
The first is obvious to anyone who reads the Economist or any other non-New York publication. George Bush left the United States in better shape than anywhere else in the world except China. Hard as it is to believe a minus 6 percent growth rate is better than any place else that publishes honest economic data. (George Bush was trying to grow a Chinese middle class and did, apparently a Bush family idea from his father. It is working.) With the whole world, sliding down the United States is not going to be able to stop the slide by ourselves.
The second problem is uncertainty. It is not clear that the alphabet soup of secret police agencies within the United States Government have any loyalty to the constitution at all. Robert Novak was the man who determined that the official corporate profitability numbers for the last two years of the Clinton administration had been cooked by thirty percent! Not an IG not, not the justice department, nor an internal Government watchdog but a reporter with a few interns alone located hundred billion dollar plus Democrat fraud. That is a very thin thread to place any faith in.
Now that George Bush has left Washington, who inside Washington is there who will object? Where is the credibility? What lines exist that cannot be crossed? If President Obama were not a citizen who is there in Washington who would object? If he cut a deal to sell nuclear bomb technology, who has “standing” to object? Would the State Department or FBI object to illegal activity? The American people know that they are being lied to by the media and the uncertainty is causing panic.
I think that Barack Obama is a citizen only because the current Governor of Hawaii is a Republican. I have no other reason to think that the US Constitution has not already been overthrown. I have not seen a Birth Certificate and what has been posted on the web is unquestionably a fraud.
Only Pelosi’s House of Representatives can impeach President Obama. Is there any high crime or misdemeanor for which they would impeach him? The United States may have already had its last Congressional election. We certainly have already had our last honest census. As long as the Democratic Party remains in control, they will not stand for an honest census. They are going to conduct a virtual census this time and gerrymander like hell to give themselves enough control to crush anyone who challenges them.
TO: deguello, et al.
RE: Ahem….As I Was Saying (Above)
Vis-a-vis the Freedom of Speech and the Press….
THIS could be an ‘indicator’.
It would depend upon who provided the ‘pressure’ to silence these people.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Things move faster every day.]
Middleman@118
Be careful. Many here will recognize your “moderate,” middle of the road conciliartory, let’s all compromise away our freedoms tone, as a complaint from a gutless, apolitical leech, or maybe a kapo wannabe.
“What a bunch of infants.”
Let me ask you this, Steve P: Did you leave similar messages and advice on the any of the many, many threads that could be found during the Bush administration at say, DU or DailyKos or FiredogLake, or even the HuffPo? Or were they all adults, by your estimation?
I’ve done a quick read through of many of the posts. Not the most optimistic mindset, mind you, but I don’t see a call for revolution or armed violence. Do you? Do you really? I do see concern about what to do in the event of civil unrest or a breakdown of society or even services that could come about as the result of policies pursued by the current administration. Perhaps unduly pessimistic but any more so than that found on some of the sites mentioned about. I don’t think so.
To 140. Steve P.
“Is he a street thug or an ivy league silver-spoon elite?”
I didn’t know they were mutually exclusive…
“Is he a marxist or a fascist?”
Those are for all intends and purposes are the same thing…as least when talking about real life and not college hypothetical fantasy BS…
For those who are dreaming of starting some pointless civil war: how do you think the rest of the world will react to this ‘revolution’.
Things have changed since 1776. America is still the most powerful nation in the world. Our military force is the strongest, our economy is still influential, for good or bad.
The rest of the world has been resenting us for years because of this – they blame all of their problems on us, they watch everything we do. Members of the United Nations and worldwide NGOs openly admit that their main goal is to fight imperialism and American hyperpower.
What do you think they’re going to do while the most powerful state in the world, the one with all the best goodies, is divided and weak?
If you really, really want to be ruled by the UN, the Wahhabis, Latin American commies and whiny, pacifist eurotrash, by all means, have your little revolution.
always right@125
Shotguns, and then handguns for starters…both are point-and-shoot at close range, which is what it will be, if you need to fire them.
140. Steve P. “A month into a new presidency, and you’re screaming like children. A new conspiracy theory every minute, each more laughable than the last. You folks can’t even get a grip on reality long enough to even define why you hate the President – Is he a street thug or an ivy league silver-spoon elite? Is he a marxist or a fascist? You can’t even settle on a consistent slur. And now that it appears that your crazy theories about his false birth or his socialistic tendencies are not sticking as you hoped, you’re going off the deep end with tantrums about how a violent revolution is inevitable.”
More accurately, we are screaming AT the children now at the helm of our republic. Sad to say but true, the left is the provence of emotionally retarded juveniles. Not the right.
We know exactly why we despise this president’s policies. His policies represent Gramsciian Marxism which you undertand well, or would never have taken the time to refute other posters.
The outrage starting to bubble up across the nation is bad news for the left and you know it. Don’t trifle with conservatives. To think for a nanosecond that people won’t “revolt” when pushed too far, is to be breathtakingly stupid or ignorant.
Note to Steve P….Just curious but do you still have an Obama bumpersticker on your car? I think it admirable that you’re still standing up for him when even some in the MSM are questioning his judgment. It doesn’t alarm you in the least that since taking office he’s almost tripled the national debt? Not one teensy bit? It doesn’t alarm you in the least that he’s already broken one of his main campaign promises….NO EARMARKS? It doesn’t alarm you in the least that he’s already declared that we’ve lost the war in Afghanistan? It doesn’t alarm you in the least that he doesn’t have the confidence of the armed forces?
Are you putting the puzzle pieces together yet Steve? Last 2 years of a Democratic Congress and the mortgage crisis begins. Now we’ve got a Democratic President AND Congress and the national debt triples in one month? Hmmmmmm……………
Steve P is of course the Baghdad Bob of this blog.
I say the same exact thing Bonnie. There will be uprising in the summer with the long, not days and sooo many people without work. people are already extremely irritable and angry. Please all, don’t think the “blue” states are treated differently…not true. The state just laid off 800 workers here in the Boston area. There are foreclosure signs. We are not immune. I know a lot of people without jobs who have lost their homes. Why won’t this arrogant, marxist,incompetent, egotistical, “have no clue”, tired and overwkelmed (getting out my little violin, “boo hoo”)get a teleprompter and a basecall cap and get out. God bless America.
I mean “hot” days even.
“If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in
peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick
the hand that feeds you; and posterity forget that ye were our
countrymen.” –Samuel Adams
Coming to a community near you?
John Gillman (106):
Non sequitor. Voting is how the socialists have gotten into power and caused this mess! The problem is that we let them and didn’t put up any capable opposition. Obama didn’t seize power illegally, nor did Pelosi, Dodd, Reid, or Frank. They were all voted into office.
TO: Moddleman
RE: Yeah?
“No one has called for snipers yet, but there is a whole lot of crazy talk about guns, emergency provisions, and the big Commie takeover. I thought the 9/11 troofers were nuts, but some folks are catching up. Particularly the birth certificate crowd.” — Middleman
Show US the birth certificate. Or are you naive as to accept politicians at their word?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. You’ve proven my point, in admitting that no one here has called for the assassination of the President of the United States, despite your suggestion that these people are as crazy as the ones who, for the last eight years, WERE calling for such, as in the famous image on a ‘news’ program showing a telescopic sight reticle superimposed on the face of President Bush, with the text “Snipers Wanted”.
You’re coming across as a complete dork, if not downright ‘stupid’. [Note: See my working definition of 'stupid', above.]
Gentlemen:
I have posted this here before, but this thread seems appropriate for a refresh. Why not stock up with the help of the Federal government?
The Civilian Marksmanship Program was founded many years ago when a more-enlightened government believed that a cadre of trained citizens would be an asset to an army looking for foot soldiers. They would sell the U.S. M-1 Garand at reasonable rates to their members as an effort to improve shooting skills among the civilian populace.
They still do and their qualifications are reasonable: citizenship (sorry Barak, old boy, you probably won’t qualify), proof of service (DD-214), law enforcement experience, or certification from a range master that you know which end of the weapon to point down range. That last point seems to me to be superfluous as those not knowing would not be around to apply, but I digress.
The membership dues are reasonable; they involve belonging to a specified gun club or, if none is available, one can always join the Garand Collectors of America for a nominal fee and you get a nice quarterly publication out of the deal to boot.
In any event, a service grade M-1 — eminently operational and accurate — can be had for around $600 and, yes, they do have ammunition. At last check, they sell 240 rounds of Lake City M-2 ball for about $68 bucks. With shipping, it works out to about 30 cents per round.
Oh, and here’s the good news: you go through the Federal background investigation right enough but, after that, the M-1 gets Fedexed to your door, no need to send it to a FFL dealer like they do here in the Peoples’ Republic of Kalifornia.
A Garand or two (there is no limit to purchases) would be a welcome addition to the home protection shotguns and pistols in one’s burgeoning arsenals, I shouldn’t imagine.
You owe it to yourself to check it out.
162. Mary Madigan
The EU and UN are a cowardly lot… as long as they aren’t “invited” as peace keeping troopers they won’t make any majorly overt move in the mess. However chances are obama the “world citizen” will ask the UN to deploy “peacekeepers” to the US and then theirs no turning back on that point…all or nothing. Right now however we are on the road and traveling fast to being ruled by the UN and its many dictatorships… so I’m failing to see your overall point.
MaryM@162
Does your line of reasoning(?) suggest we just let ourselves be enslaved to remain protected from the eventuality of foreign intervention?
Is Tokyo Rose still alive?
“They are not looking for an excuse. They are not right wing nut cases. But they WILL NOT sit by and watch a bunch of welfare-tit-sucking-lazy-wannabes destroy this country in the name of wealth redestribution. Most of these country boys (and most of the girls) do more physical labor before breakfast than the urban girlie-men who support obama do in 2 years at the gymn.”
So nevermind America united, it’s all about Us vs Them. Country vs Urban, Black vs White, Left vs Right, Hustler vs Sucker, Worker vs Welfare Case. At the end of the day we all get screwed. If not by the politican, then by ourselves.
By the way, the state with the largest volume of welfare fraud is Utah. So you tell those Flyover Country folks there that I want my tax money back.
163;Stevies’hallucigens are kicking in.The guy is totally delusional regarding the content of these discussions.
At what point does discontent turn to violence?>>
It will turn to violence if the black people feel that Hussein’s presidency is threatened. Othewise there is nothing to worry about.
Whites in America will not riot in the streets against Hussein for a number of reasons with one of them being that Hussein would have the authorities crush it with force and the MSM would support Hussein’s actions.
I sincerely appreciate all the comments, even from fellow-traveling Steve P. After all, one should know exactly what the enemy is thinking.
If you’all wish to continue this discussion over say the next 18 months, I’d advise you to get several email accounts from as many services as possible.
A bit more advice:
Put fitted sticks in your windows to secure them…those flimsy little locks built into windows aren’t enough. My husband always makes them for homes he builds as a free ‘extra’ security measure for people.
Put extra bolts on your doors…you can buy some brass ones at Home Depot for a few bucks and if you don’t have a screwdriver you can screw them in by hand with a little extra elbow grease.
When my husband and I built our home 16 or so years ago we also built in a ‘secret’ room for more food storage and supplies. When the idiots who thought they were getting a ‘handout’ from 0bama find out that ’0bama bux’ mean NOTHING, you can bet they’ll be looting and turning our country into a nightmare when the store supplies run dry because farmers are screwed, truckers who use gas are screwed etc.
Good news? Prices are still reasonable. I can still get skinless-boneless chicken breasts for $1.99 lb. and I can shop the outlet stores and get high quality end cut bacon for $1.19 a pound… Also, there are some great deals at Winco/Costco/Outlets for some canned goods.
Clip coupons. Keep your eyes open to a good deal and stock up when you can. Bottled water should ALWAYS be in supply.
Being prepared for a bad situation of any kind doesn’t make you a loon, it means you’ll be the strongest rather than the weakest link.
#122 Chuck Pelto:
“No. Mere mutiny would not necessarily work. Not as long as evil people hold places of power in the federal government”
No, Colonel, it would work.
The point of a mutiny isn’t for the crew to overthrow their captain, but for his subordinate officers to do the deed out of their own self-interest.
That’s why it was Fletcher Christian, a mate on the HMS Bounty,, and in “the Caine Mutiny”, the First Officer who took over their respective ships.
If I was mutineering your regiment, my targets would be to turn your captains and lieutenants against you. It is they who are most directly responsible for enforcing your will upon your troops.
If their zeal in this duty can be compromised or turned,if they can be induced to second-guess the wisdom or justice of your orders, then the thing is done.
A crew without a captain will select one of their own as Master.
A captain without a crew is just a man adrift in a boat.
Even though I’ve never held command, I’m empathetic enough to know how lonely a place the Big Chair must be.
“Secession would only lead to Civil War again, one way or another. And, just as a note of historic significance, our Civil War did not ’sink the nation’.”
There may come a point where we cannot go on as Americans under the American government.
It may not necessarily lead to a civil war, since wars are expensive, and the Feds are skint broke.
Paul: I live in NJ so ridding the state of Democrats peacefully would be a long-term goal. I’m one of those “earners” who will be footing the bill for hopeandchange. I do vote in primaries and helped get our Rino Rep Marge Roukema replaced with the much more conservative Scott Garrett.
All the NJ Governor candidates (our election is 2009) have been invited to speak at our gun club. The Republicans have accepted and will be at the next couple of meetings. Haven’t head from the Dems.
I objected to the raging Deaniacs for the same reason I object to this ridiculous blathering about ‘revolution’ . Democrats are not the enemy; they’re not Russians, they’re not commies, they’re not the UN and they’re not Islamists. They’re your friends and neighbors. United we stand, divided we fall.
The real enemies, commies, Russians, UN, etc. would love to hear this kind of talk, because they would love to see America fall.
This is a democracy, and, due to the current downfall of the old media, the average person has more of a voice than ever. It’s just disturbing to see them using this power for this kind of blather.
146. rvastar: said, “…are simply too pampered…”
Or pusillanimous.
147. Delia: You’re correct concerning the time frame here. It’ll take quite a long period of complete financial devastation and lawlessness before there is an armed insurrection. At least I hope you’re correct!
149. therealist: I’ve been seriously contemplating Chile, myself. With the modest savings I have ferreted away, I’d be a king there! And a generous one, to boot!
156. Meryl: “and are comfortable advising people on how and why to select which shotgun.”
I hope you were referring to me and my kind and kin! I like my self-made-man heritage, but it’s seeming like the “tick on the ass of humanity” types have voted me (and you and yours) out of a future. I seriously wish that a “real conservative” would run for office…and win. I just want to be led by a sort of, “pull yourself up by your bootstraps or starve to death” man/woman who demands that everybody contribute…or leave! As it stands now, the “ticks” have got the votes to make this country hell.
164. SarahB: wrote, “We know exactly why we despise this president’s policies. His policies represent Gramsciian Marxism which you undertand well, or would never have taken the time to refute other posters.”
I beg to differ with your rhetoric concerning SteveP(usillanimous)’s posts. I feel quite positive that he couldn’t “refute” the argument of a 4-year-old (much less any reasonable adult.) Mayhaps your line should have included, “argue,” because I’m sure that he could “argue” with a 4-year-old. (Oh, yeah. Just as you wouldn’t argue with a 4-year-old, don’t argue with SteveP(usillanimous). Just ignore him…
regards
TO: deguello, et al.
RE: Another Possible Indicator
I think that visits from our friends in federal government law enforcement activities, e.g., FBI, SS, BATF, DEA, IRS, because of our discussions here could be another ‘indicator’ that things are getting ‘interesting’.
It’s not ‘paranoia’, it could be a fact. For example, check out THIS item.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The people are the government, administering it by their agents; they are the government, the sovereign power. -- Andrew Jackson]
P.S. Would Jackson refer to this as a self-inflicted wound?
179. Delia: “A bit more advice: Put fitted sticks in your windows to secure them…those flimsy little locks built into windows aren’t enough. My husband always makes them for homes he builds as a free ‘extra’ security measure for people.”
My Dad has always said, “Locks only keep honest people honest.” Better to have an arsenal and leave your windows open!
And also, adopt a dog! A big, protective one! They don’t approve if you are getting robbed! If only they would just bark at politicians and robbers…sigh
regards
TO: Bilgeman
RE: Mutiny
I see your point. However, I have to ask you…..
….whereas we could expect the Republicans in government to mutiny, but do you REALLY think that Pelosi and Reid, let alone the Kennedys, Dodds, Franks, etc. will ‘mutiny’ against their Party’s chosen one?
Pelosi might, as she’s in the line of succession. But I doubt if the Democratic Party leadership will mutiny against the One.
It would be great if they did, but I have serious doubts.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[A little rebellion now and then is a good thing. - Thomas Jefferson]
All my conscious adult life ( that’s like after 30 ) I’ve disparaged the French and their murderous revolution. I’ve always liked the argument that OUR revolution was so much more enlightened.
Well it was a fine revolution but we were in a different place than the poor French who were taking serious wood in the tender regions for a loooooong time. Now here in my own land I begin to have real insight regarding France’s eradication of the ruling/intelligentsia of their day.
If America is ever to be America again the Tree of Liberty is going to need a good soaking. I think or previous civil war is to be eclipsed in every way.
Mmm … I dunno. I’m sympathetic, but I’ve been thinking about this for a while. I have several concerns:
1. Revolutions have a way of being hijacked.
2. Revolutions have a way of going wrong — any violence, handled wrongly, can be labeled terrorism. I’m not going to join something that ends up like the IRA.
3. The American Revolution happened only after there was broad-based democratic support, as shown by the “rebels” taking over each colonies local democratic institutions.
Even then, before the rebellion, the leaders of these states met in Philadelphia and wrote a powerful mission statement, the words of which still inspire to this day.
Any violence would have to be an absolute last resort … as many have said.
We have the opportunity to organize (btw, who said we need to remain within one political party) and win elections; as Americans, we can also call on our states to have a constitutional convention (the new constitution of which, btw, requires ratification).
Plus, there is an issue of our current identity as Americans. Like it or not, 52% of the voters voted in Obama. If he loses support, he loses support, and others regain political power.
My point is while I sympathize with those who are frustrated, and I am preparing myself for the worst, I think the current civil order is far from lost. We have more to lose from premature violence than the current injustices.
And then violence, only with broad-based support (like 80% of the country), and only where a major trip line has been crossed, and only when the powers that be are utterly unresponsive to people’s demands to retreat from that trip line, and we have no opportunities for redress short of violence, and the powers that be start to threaten us with violence first.
In other words, let’s win the battle of ideas, civil leadership and political organization first.
Unfortunately, we conservatives are at a big disadvantage in political organizing — we don’t like politics, for the most part. We don’t like governing. We tend to want to live out our lives in peace and be left alone ..
Anyway, them’s my current thoughts. YMMV.
Everyone here should take a look a paper written “Coup of 2012″ which was written in and published by the Army War College in the Parameters Winter ’92-’93 edition. Here is the link to the article: http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/parameters/1992/dunlap.htm Furthermore, in reading the posts above one must remember that a fundamental shift in the composition of the military has taken place of the last 40yrs. In that, most of the large military installations are located in the South or in flyover America. Most of the military is composed of Southerners and of Westerners. The military is currently the most highly educated segment of the US population – both enlisted & officer corps. Yes military members swear an oath to uphold the and defend the Constitution, yet the undercurrent within the military is that the Constitution is presently be shredded at an alarming rate. Despite your views on the past administration to get the real flavor of what I’m referring to everyone should checkout this video posted on youtube comparing the reception of President Bush by Marines and recently of President Obama. http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2009/03/07/a-tale-of-two-presidents-or-semper-fi-vs-a-tepid-response/ The stark contrast is utterly telling. Given the factors that I mentioned above, should (and I pray that it does not) come to a situation where like referenced in earlier posts the schism in American society becomes too great and sides are drawn again; well as a student of military history I would have to make the assertion that like in 1861 a majority of the Military would side with for lack of a better term “Red States”.
I resent the aspersion that “rvastar” cast about me being enthusiastic about the idea of civil war and revolution. Go ahead and check my posts. I’m calling for a responsible progression of exercising our rights in the political process, with revolt being an option of last resort, but an option nonetheless. It is those who reject that option in principle who seem to nut understand how the Constitution has been under attack for many years, under both Democrat and Republican administrations. The kinds of changes Obonga wants to put in place amount to the destruction of the idea of free enterprise being the foundation of our economy, replacing it with government managing a zero-sum economy. The sheer lunacy of it all is stunning. There is enough historical precedent and fact to establish that state managed capital and government managed economies are stagnant and dysfunctional.
I object to nearly a billion dollars of our taxes being sent to the dirtiest, most violent animals on the face of the earth: the jihad terror organizations in Palestine.
I object to this usurper’s plans to gut our strategic defenses almost unilaterally.
He wants to impose a stunningly heavy tax on our economy called the cap and trade system, which is based on the belief that AGW is correct science, which it is not.
He will leave office in January of 2013 leaving the nation’s economy far weaker and our defense policy hollowed out.
But let no interloper on this thread from the other side lecture us about our alleged lunacy for considering revolt against the government. We have a right to this. It is very clear from our founding documents and the thinking of the founders that there are conditions under which we not only have a right to do this, but we have a moral obligation to do so.
Fred @ 134:
The supply of brass cartridges will become a problem for reloaders. There is some potential that the gov’t will mandate that cartridges be made of aluminum. First, it will not preserve the propellant for as long; therefore, ammunition cannot be stored for as long. Secondly, aluminum cartridges cannot be reloaded. They aren’t going to take your gun. They are going to starve us of ammunition. I believe that California has already banned the lead projectile. They use lead poisoning for birds as the reason. In actuality, they have just practically eliminated the use of .22 guns.
Always right:
I’m with you. Just this past week, I purchased a firearm for the first time in my 59 years. Based on a friend’s expertise, I chose the Taurus “Judge”. I am not competent enough to use this; but, I have the oversight and coaching of a very accomplished friend.
This weapon fires both .45 rounds and .410 shotgun rounds all from the same weapon. I expect to load the gun with alternating .45 and .410 rounds. If the .45 misses, the .410 probably will not. If the .45 is on target, the .410 probably won’t be necessary. In addition, this ammunition is not in quite as short supply as some of the semi-automatic weapon rounds.
Delia 90 – McVeigh saw himself as part of an American revolt against the power-grab of the Clinton administration. He didn’t think the people he killed were innocent. He was made possible by conservative talk-show hysteria at the time. And—most tellingly—he was so far on the lunatic Right that he gained an ally from the lunatic Left: the odious Gore Vidal.
I repeat: I’ve just got done listening to 8 years worth of blather from the Left about how Bush had destroyed democracy and we are living under fascism etc etc. And it was all nonsense. Please please don’t give me a mirror-image rightwing party line.
91 Chuck – as I recalled correctly, McVeigh admitted his deed. See Wikipedia.
94 Thinking – Not saying the economy hasn’t gone to hell. Plenty of blame to go around for that, back to the Clinton White House & beyond. Face it: nobody knows what the hell they’re doing. But I do know this: there’ll be an election in 2010 and another in 2012.
If conservatives don’t win then, that means….what? That the American people are too stupid to deserve Democracy? Wow.
Oh – and what civil right did you lose today? Or the day before? You typify the kind of hyperbole I’m talking about.
98 Liberty – OMG! So the South “stopped taking orders” from the US government in 1861? So THAT was what that war was about! And the South would’ve gladly given up what little slavery it practiced if only the US government had quit ordering them around.
Go wave that Bonnie Blue Flag somewhere else, willya?
116 Oscar – You are absolutely correct. Thank you. 118 Middleman – ditto.
140 Steve – your post is even better than mine. Many thanks. The overall tone of self-pity on this thread is genuinely nauseating.
I suppose old non productive Dukes, and Earls, and Viscounts all thought of them selves as necessary and productive, and naturally deserving of first, most and special protection from their King.
No doubt today’s lawyers, Congressmen, Senators, local hack town politicians, clerks, minions, coatholders, 3rd Assistant Clam Warden all feel that their positions, all supported at the point of a Sheriffs gun or IRS sweating are critical.
Yeah. Right.
All my life I have had half, or more, taken from me. And now I’m rewarded with my children as debt slaves for these tax eaters.
I’d prefer to have it out now, for a year or two, come what may, so that my kids aren’t prostitutes for Saudis or soldiers fighting in China.
Steve P. @ 140
I think that you and I have sized each other up. (Forget the ending a sentence in a prepostion thing.) You are a Blue State moron who is immune to logic or reason. Just go talk with your liberal friends. You guys will surely find agreement on every subject.
I still have faith in my country, even when my side loses the election.
I don’t see how revolution can be avoided. I see the USA military siding against Obama and the left. It’s really a shame that the first black President will bring America to ruin.
To 182. Mary Madigan
“The real enemies, commies, Russians, UN, etc. would love to hear this kind of talk, because they would love to see America fall.”
Is their a huge difference between the listed above and the democrat party…They openly support and work with these ppl to further THEIR goals… not the US’s. Every groups you list and implies are all helping the dems and the dems are helping them… So once again I ask… what is your over all point… because you seem very self conflicted.
geoffgo#108
Re LA riots: Point of fact, the police did nothing to stop the rioters. They stood there and watched the rioter pillage and burn stores and homes for three straight days. When the National Guard was sent in they came in without ammunition. Many received ammunition from the people in the area. They were also fed by the people. 58 people were killed in the riot. Most were murdered by the mob. Nobody was arrested for murder and the crimes went unpunished.
If an insurrection starts, let the left be the ones starting it. This time the general population is armed and will defend themselves. Defending yourself is not the same as starting a rebellion.
We know who you are and where you are.
All of you.
All we gotta do is vote en mass, spread our ideas to our kin and kind, cast off the “ticks,” disparage the clingers (to their face), refuse allowance of and confiscate all assets of immigrants that have crossed our borders illegally, be willing and able to reluctantly refute their “argumentative victimistic shameless begging” without shame, and wait.
It might be a long wait.
But we’ll regain control of the governing bodies through time and excessive expenditures which have bankrupted not only America, but capitalism itself.
regards
#186 Chuck Pelto:
“but do you REALLY think that Pelosi and Reid, let alone the Kennedys, Dodds, Franks, etc. will ‘mutiny’ against their Party’s chosen one?”
Yes. Say what you will about that gang, but they’ve survived in the shark tank as long as they have by knowing in their bones which way the tide is running.
If they sense that Obama is weakened, they won’t expend any great effort to defend him.
I strongly suspect that there’s a rather strong, though muted, undercurrent of resentment against Obama from the old Democrat Senators’ club.
I mean, he IS the “FNG”, right?
Rather like your staff not bothering to wake you if your company commanders haven’t maneuvered their companies to quite where you wanted them deployed, right?
Mutinies can be accomplished by inaction also.
And, as you know better than I, there’s always a Captain who’d like to be Major, and a Major who dreams of wearing little birds on his collar.
Imagine what a magnanimous spirit like John Kerry must think about Obama, late at night when Theresa is heavily medicated and sound asleep.
All it takes is one good bit of bloodletting, and we’ll be shocked at how quickly the waters fill with sharks.
Look at what happened to Clinton after 1994 and even more so after Lewinsky…
Mary@182
Please refrain from lecturing us by showing your moderation and ignorance. The US is not a democracy; it’s a democratic republic. Or was. The Founders understood that a pure democracy would result in “majority rule at the expense of the minority” – (might-makes-right-politics) which is exactly what the Democrats you call friends are imposing on us now.
If the Left’s blatent attempt to enslave you doesn’t identify them as malevolent enemies, what pray tell will? While you’re admittedly fatigued from hearing stridency from both sides, you obviously still cannot differentiate truth from lies. Or, it matters not to you.
You are a poster child for the “why can’t we just all get along” enablers.
199. Oscar the Grump: geoffgo#108 Re LA riots: “Point of fact, the police did nothing to stop the rioters.”
The police were too scared to shoot the lawbreakers for fear of lawsuits from “dey babymommas.”
And even when the Nat. Guard came in, the rioting didn’t stop. And that’s only because the Nat. Guard was ordered not to fire on “Citizens” (read leftist insurrectionists.)
regards
HonestlyJohn@183
I’m pretty much in agreement with your posts, except:
It’ll take quite a long period of complete financial devastation and lawlessness before there is an armed insurrection. At least I hope you’re correct!
Isn’t waiting solely to their advantage?
“The government has enough firepower to bring down any widescale insurrection”
Factually inaccurate! The US Military has that firpower, 75% of who would side AGAINST this administration. I have one son that is serving now, another that got out last year. Neither of them ( both comabat vets) is going to shoot American citizens.ANY officer giving such an illegal order won’t live long enough to see it carried out.
“If it makes any of you relax a little, Obama has never proposed anything even remotely like a “domestic army” or brownshirt brigades. — Rotwang”
Save this URL for one of your intermittent bouts of reality;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwaAVJITx1Y
Listen to Obama call for a ‘civilian’ security force just as strong, just as powerful as the US Military. Ask yourself why would he want one of those? Maybe because the US Military is sworn to the Constitution NOT the President. So why does the Usurper feels he needs a military sworn to him? Mayne he knows that one day the fraud will be uncovered and there will be an attempt to remove him from the office he usurped?
Rotwang, there are none so blind as those that refuse to se. Hiding your head in the sand leaves more sensitive body parts exposed.
Here is another clue;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqF19Phn0Og
These guys are why I keep 2,000 rounds on hand for my M1A.
I’m ready, are you?
’166. geoffgo:
Steve P is of course the Baghdad Bob of this blog.”
Yep, of course after B.O. it will turn out Baghdag Bob was right.
#182 Mary Madigan:
“Democrats are not the enemy; they’re not Russians, they’re not commies, they’re not the UN and they’re not Islamists. They’re your friends and neighbors. United we stand, divided we fall.”
Your faith does you credit, but I’d offer that enemies are as enemies do.
Is it our “friends” who seek to disenfranchise us via census “oversight” and unconstitutional representation for the District of Columbia?
Is it our friends who seek to muzzle dissent through the mechanism of the “Fairness Doctrine”?
And they’re even open enough about it to blatantly state that it is “Conservative Talk Radio” that they want to counteract by force of law.
Do your friends seek to bankrupt you and your children to support their buddies in failing businesses and their clients who have lived far beyond their means?
Is it your neighbors who despise you for following your religious beliefs and thereby not acquiescing to their political endaavors for the legitimacy that society has not granted them?
(Try being a Mormon in California nowadays).
Is it neighborly for them to call you a coward on racial dialogue if you do not walk around feeling guilty on the one hand or aggrieved on the other, for the amount of skin pigment you were born with?
Enemies are as enemies do.
The decision about who is my enemy is a decision that each of us subjectively gets to make…and being lectured about the decision, once made, does little to reverse the verdict.
Call it revolution, mutiny, or Tree of Liberty needs refreshing, whatever.
I know it is a different case for each person/circumstance. Everybody has his own comfort level.
I just refuse to be victimized. I will protect my own.
IB BIll@188
We have more to lose from premature violence than the current injustices…Jews, prior to 1938ish, couched their predicament in much the same terms. After that we heard little from 6 MILLION of them.
When do you consider violence in a righteous cause not to be premature?
I have a GREAT idea!
Why don’t: 195. noprisoners AND Steve P. @ 140 consent to a duel!?
That’d settle it! For once and for many!
I’ll supply the guns!
(unless one is too cowardly)
regards
Chairman Zero’s economic policies will most certainly wipe away the value of the US dollar and end its world-wide role as a reserve for most of the world’s nations. Economic calamity will follow on the heels of the dollars collapse.
Anyone who thinks they are going to save their wealth by hoarding cash, withdrawing their money from the banks, and cashing in their retirements acounts and puttting the funds into hiding at home is misleading themselves. The only safe place for your savings is gold stashed nowhere near your residence and somehow shielded from the metal detectors of bureauweenies governments metal detectors along with your guns and ammo.
As the amrxist in the White House and Congress face opposition there will be stalinist style arrest, departations and killing fields. O’s mento Ayers and company developed a blueprint 40 years ago. It will be the New Hampshire motto. Live free or die and I am willing and ready to lay down my life for my children, grandchildren, and kin to stop the left’s destruction of our nation and economy so that our posterity has more than the lefties wet dream of an Orwellian future. Obama and his Chicago street marxists will take my freedom, property, and guns from my cold dead hands and with my house in flames.
This is a good quote from Paynetrain links.
Richard Gabriel
“when one discusses dissent, loyalty, and the limits of military obligations, the central problem is that the military represents a threat to civil order not because it will usurp authority, but because it does not speak out on critical policy decisions. The soldier fails to live up to his oath to serve the country if he does not speak out when he sees his civilian or military superiors executing policies he feels to be wrong.”
He can at least know some of us are speaking out against obama and we will support the constitution to the end.
TO: MIke Reynolds
RE: And….
….what does THAT have to do with my comment?
Nada….
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Trying to change the subject doesn't help.]
TO: MIke Reynolds
RE: Faith
I have faith in the Constitution of the United States, above politicians. And when the politicians decide that the Constitution of the United States no longer applies to them, I get a bit ‘interested’.
What do YOU do?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation where the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. -- James Madison]
Mike@196
That make you feel patriotic?
What about if the election is rigged, or if the majority turns out to be a mob of flesh-eating cannibals? Maybe your blind faith will work out for you, maybe not.
TO: CSC
RE: You….
…don’t know jack.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Wise men don't need advice. Fools won't take it. -- Benjamin Franklin]
Ocar@199
You probably vote against pre-emptive action in a nuclear age too?
I know full well that self-defense, even the defense of society is not the same as rebellion, and I don’t conflate them, as they are explicit individual rights.
The comment thread is becoming more tin-foil hat-ish by the minute
The political pressure point at the federal level between now and the 2010 Congressional elections are the Blue Dog Democrats. Any demonstration should at THEIR offices. Letters of protest should be addressed first to them.
So far, the worst threat to our liberties has been in delegitimizing of elections. The place for local political action should be with county voter registars and your state’s secretary of state. They are supposed to follow state election law but should use all their decretionary powers to ensure clean voter rolls and honest elections. Let’s get rid of the electronic voting machines and absentee ballots! Paper ballots cast at the polls on election days were bad enough.
Obama has made only one public move that could be considered a direct threat – trying to take over the Census. The porkulus package supposedly funds his ACORN buddies, a prime agent of voter fraud. The Fairness Doctrine or substitutes remains a bit too hot to handle so far but we’re all watching. One wonders what kind of deal he struck with Gates?
Let’s keep our heads and focus on ways to avert violence over politics. We can recover from a few years of liberalism out of control (see the Carter years). We will have a more difficult time recovering from letting slip of fair elections and the evasion of the Bill of Rights.
Long term, the MSM is failing economically but academia is so far untouched. We need ideas on how to turn around our taxpayer-funded educational system. That might mean we have to pay for private schools of OUR choice while paying the teachers unions and tenured professorate.
With fair elections, 2010 will be a Republican landslide.
#206 typos r us:
“Listen to Obama call for a ‘civilian’ security force just as strong, just as powerful as the US Military.”
Which is why I intend to join up as soon as possible.
It’s very hard to buy claymore mines, and yet there they’ll be doling ‘em out for FREE!
The time will come,and it won’t come easy.True Americans will fight back against the liberal socialist adgenda when pushed to far.
re: 83. MIke Reynolds:
MIke – if you really believe Timothy McVeigh was a conservative tool (or even a conservative, for that matter) you’re an idiot.
Whitehall@219
With fair elections, 2010 will be a Republican landslide.
And, they’ll face unrelenting vitriol from the Left and the press for the 50 years it takes to unwind what the Left has wrought.
205. geoffgo: wrote: “Isn’t waiting solely to their advantage?
A bit of waiting, “John Galt”-style, might just convince the ubertaxacionists that taxation without representation isn’t for everyone (nor for the majority(which constitutes a hard-working essential decency)). I hope that I’m incorrect considering my personal situation, but, alas, I’m going to take everything that the gubmint is willing to give me (regardless if it destroys our country.) I’ll be long gone before the socialists turn our great Republic into some kind of third-world country…
regards
Some comments on our hoped-for ‘allies’:
1) The police have repeatedly denied their responsibility to protect ‘civilians’. In recent years, they have won cases in court providing plenty of precedence. Many police units have demanded laws requiring civilians to run when threatened.
2) Many police are indeed unionized.
3) The National Guard is (for now) under command of state governors. At any moment, merely by executive order, the president can assume total command.
4) Contrary to many conservative columns, there is plenty of precedence for the use of regular army units on American territory; it is completely legal – again at the whim of the president.
5) No senior general has resigned in disgust (as one might have expected) over the unAmerican policies of Clinton or Obama.
6) Most senior officers – and yes Old Soldier, most senior NCO’s – view their career/promotion/retirement as much more important than ‘picky’ interpretations of the oath. And that is very sad, because the oath (my oath, once upon a time) is indeed to ‘protect and defend..the Constitution..’. More disgusting, Obama also took that oath, with all of us aware that he despises the document.
7) So, extrapolating from (6), counting on the ‘support’ from National Guard and regular Army units may be foolhardy.
The end of the Roman republic, during the first century BC, came after much corruption, the grain dole, and vote-buying. It ended with Julius Caesar. The French Revolution ushered in the guillotine and Robspierre’s ‘Committee for Public Safety’, and ultimately, Napoleon Bonaparte.
What will happen if, against all hope, something drastic begins here? It will not necessarily end well.
While our personal wealth is decimated by bad government policy and lack of oversight, we are also taxed more to pay for their errors. Then the geniuses punish companies whose increases will be passed along to us as they raise their prices, all while we lose our jobs and our homes. If people don’t go postal on Congress, it’s because they all jumped in front of a goverment subsidized train to end it all.
I would like to leave a few thoughts, as this thread begins to get long in tooth, for those from the other side who have dropped in to mock or chastise us for expressing our views about rebellion and the Constitution. They think that our issue is the election outcome: they won, we lost, and we’re being sore losers. This oversimplification and even distortion that is willfully indulged lays bare their contempt for their fellow citizens and for the traditions of the nation and the thoughts of the founders.
I’ve argued for restraint, but at the same time have expressed my approval of our right to hold the government to the standards of the Constitution and the traditional understanding of liberty. If that government observes the Constitution more in the breach than respecting it and decides to blow up our economy by taxing the producers, risk takers, entrepreneurs, and investors exorbitantly, may – and I emphasize MAY – justify our citizens’ demanding redress. If we invest too much reverence in our government, we embolden it to keep abusing our trust and pushing the envelope.
We have been building up to this moment for a few decades now. There are two competing philosophical traditions at loggerheads now: collective rights vs. individual liberty (and these are on a continuum). Few people are right smack on the pure definition of those extremes. I tend to be somewhat past the middle of that spectrum more in the direction of individual liberty, but I am not unaware that a complex society such as ours can be managed exactly as rural, agricultural 18th century America. But I think we are in danger of straying far over from the mid point. I reject the characterization of a couple of contributors on this thread that the Democrats and Obama are typical of a moderate position. They are not. In fact, if the Democratic Party truly was moderate and even had room for more conservative Democrats like what I was during the Nineties, then I would still be a Democrat. But I am not and I have good reasons for going over to the other side in 2002. The Democrat Party now is taken over by the Far Left. I left the Far Left back in ‘87. I made that break for reasons intellectual and personal. That bridge is burned and I see absolutely no way I can approve of the variants of Gramscian cultural Marxism that have permutated across the country during the past thirty years.
There is absolutely no way that my views expressed on this thread would be allowed to stand over in the Left’s blog sites. That goes for most others here on this PJM thread. Our remarks would be deleted and participation banned. Think that an exaggeration? I know of two people I exchange views with who have had their comments deleted and their participation banned. That is the measure of their respect for us and for diverse opinions. Quite frankly, those of you who are either in college or not long out of it can attest to the Leftist regime of thought-control which obtains there. So much for the First Amendment.
As for the 2nd Amendment, I have yet to meet any Leftist who respects it and, most importantly, understands its intent as expressed by the founders’ views in their contemporary writings. There is an extant history of what happens when governments disarm their populations. We know why it is done and what the endgame is.
So, the 1st and 2nd Amendments are important trip wires that the Left may deliberately or inadvertently stumble upon. Those would be violations of the basic contract we have with each other and which define the limits of government power. Oppressive taxation can be another trip wire. And there are others. The point I am trying to get across is that you don’t stumble into civil war or rebellion simply because of the outcome of an election. That would be moronic.
Before you get to open hostilities, there are a lot of moments and instances of escalation. Each of these are crossroads with multiple possibilities for resolution. We need to look at where we are in relation to where we’ve been, so as to understand in general form what the future looks like. I would be against a kind of spontaneous combustion of a rebellion without clear organization or purpose. There also has to be leadership and logistics. We need to be organized and circumspect about what we do and how we carry it out.
Yet, when all is said and done, collectivists and those in the traditional, classical liberal movements are on a collision course. I see no way out of that. The collectivists see themselves as the inheritors of history and the laborers for a future utopia. They have this understanding of themselves. I know this because I used to be on the academic, Marxist end of the spectrum. I know the provenance of their guiding ideas. I just don’t happen to agree with them anymore and I am willing to interpose myself on behalf of a spirited defense of the classical liberal tradition they are trying to subvert.
If the end of the road brings us to the point of armed conflict, which I hope we can avoid by imaginative and successful political victories, then we are brought there by the Marxists’ leaving us little choice. If we must effect their destruction, they bring it on themselves.
“200. Civilian Security Corps:
We know who you are and where you are.
All of you.”
Molon Labe.
Come get YA’ some of this here Libertarian hospitality… hear.
You’re right, fred…I mean, how could anyone possibly misconstrue your ideologically pure calls for “a responsible progression of exercising our rights” amongst all your talk about “ganbanging thugs” and “Obonga”?
Silly me!
Whose necks are you going stretch, fred? Which American citizens are you gonna line up against the wall, fred? And for what?
The time may very well come for such drastic actions…as a student of history, I know that the first thing one must learn is to never say “never”. But it is not that time yet. And the notion of American killing American is a sickening one and is not something that I find can be tastefully discussed in the abstract or the hypothetical.
Excellent comment from Whitehall at #219. The tough nut to crack is the Gramscian ownership of education. There is no true diversity of opinion or respect for opposing views in academia and in the schools. The Marxists have shoved it down our throats there.
If logistics is a major part of war, then let us think like a war strategy while fighting a political battle. We have to determine where the pressure points are in their logistical tail – academia – and use it to our advantage.
“…the urban girlie-men who support obama do in 2 years at the gym..” <– Haha. Great! Absolutely wonderful! I would have to say that it suits Stevie here quite well. Also all the talking heads in the mindless mainstream media.
BTW – aside: Seems that the college major known euphemistically as ‘journalism’ is almost at the bottom of the heap, intelligence-wise, on most campuses. It would be at the bottom were it not for the (unionized) teachers.
amen
225. fred:
Most liberals are young. I was a (pseudo) liberal who was a director of forest services in my local chapter of the Sierra Club in my youth (read college). I learned better! They were a bunch of hippie losers who wished for the betterment of nature over Mankind.
It’s too bad that those sort of folks just won the last election. A whole gigantimongous percentage of baby boomer nipple suckers should feel responsible for the pusillanimous way that they have raised their children and Grandchildren.
Most especially their grandchildren.
regards
jrc, chuck, geoffgo – just read McVeigh’s comments as quoted by Wikipedia. The guy sounded like half the people on this thread sound right now. To me, “Reichstag Fire” means you think McVeigh was an innocent framed by the *real* criminals (who would be whom?)
Oh, wait, I forgot: Wiki has been infiltrated by the Gramsci-ite, Alinksy-ite ACORN minions who foisted that Kenyan Muslim Communist on us as their stooge President & so all those McVeigh quotes are false. Frankly, I liked things better when our Secret Ruler was Dick Cheney.
at 188: IB Bill (?)
No, your view of the American Revolution is seriously flawed. In historical fact, the revolution was ‘enthusiastically supported’ (your ‘broad based support’) by only about 1/3 of the colonists. Another third were staunch tories, and the other third basically did not care.
Probably a good snapshot of America in many decades of the last century. Lesson: no prediction possible from ‘polls’, especially when they are controlled.
TO: jrc #223
RE: Heh
On a par with Muddleman.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[A fool too late bewares when all the peril is past. -- Elizabeth I]
TO: fred
RE: Elsewhere In the Blogosphere
Been there. Had that. Even at US News last week regarding standing up for RNC Chair Steele’s apology to Limbaugh.
30 minutes later, the post was ‘gone’ and I couldn’t post there anymore. But I’ve saved the page before and after….GOTCHA! A—holes!
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Whereas Good can tolerate the existence of Evil. Evil cannot tolerate the existence of Good, as Good will continually be pointing out Evil's problems. Therefore Evil must always try to destroy Good. -- CBPelto]
Our country’s troubles have already started in the cities. Crime and poverty rule their world. As I’ve heard before it will be this group of people that will start the uprisings. Who they aim their anger at is unknown. Will it be Obama because he made them promises that he couldn’t keep? Or will it be the middle-class because Obama told them that we are the enemy?
I work with the DoD and my AD co-workers will die defending the Constitution, they are from various backgrounds and races. The few Obama lovers are also from various backgrounds and races. Those of you that pop on here and think this is a race issue need to get out more often.
rvastar @230
F you.
TO: MIke Reynolds
RE: [OT] McVeigh, OKC and the Reichstag Fire
Maybe you should read up a LITTLE bit more about the Reichstag Fire. AND learn to read English, as I never said he was ‘innocent’. Indeed, I pointed that out in an earlier post when you THOUGHT claiming I thought he was innocent would change the argument to your favor.
For studying the Reichstag Fire, I recommend Shere’s classic, Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Lubbe was a dupe of an agent provocateur, probably Nazi. McVeigh was likely the same sort of dupe.
As for learning English, and likely Logic, as well. I recommend you join the debate club in your high school.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Remember this, foolish mortal, when ye stare headlong into the mind-paralyzing void, the inky black nothingness of existence, the hellish yawning maw of the abyss -- it's pretty damn dark, so give your eyes a few minutes to adjust.]
228 Fantom . . . OK, I’ll come get me some. I’ll be by your place at 4:30 this morning. I’ll be in a light-colored later model Honda. That should give you plenty of warning. All you have to decide is what will keep you awake – your Joe Horn need to shoot that gun you paid all that money for, or your atavistic manifestation of penis envy. I suspect the latter, based on your curious knowledge of all things Greek and your fascination with tea bag parties. Unless of course you just backed into the Greek reference by accident, kinda like all those people who show up in emergency rooms with light bulbs up their rectums. “Honest, I have no idea how it got there!” But I know you’re too much man to try that lame ploy. By the way, your name – FANTOM – did some group of rowdy hoodlums give you that while you were standing in line to buy Watchmen tickets? You likes you some comic books, don’t you . . . yep . . . and Jet Li movies and police scanners and those little bottles of deer urine. Now, if you get a little scared later tonight, just call some of your friends here on this board. They won’t be able to come help you, see, because they “got the gout” but they’ll sure as heck give you moral support. Ah, to be a American conservative today . . . it must be tough to be so scary. Or is it scary to be so tough? See you later. And make some coffee, will ya? Thanks.
TO: All
RE: What fred Has Said
Here! Here!
Well and wisely spoken.
Regards.
Chuck(le)
[Any fool can start a war. It takes a better man to prevent one. And it must be done with great care.]
P.S. But as in any ‘relationship’, it takes two to tango, and care to avoid stepping on each other’s ‘toes’.
Unfortunately, for the past 8 years, the so-called ‘liberals’ [what a misnomer] haven’t been very careful. And now what has gone around is coming around again….much to their chagrin…..
We need to lay out a game plan.
1. Don’t spend so much time on conservative web sites and start pushing your influence on the independent voter, with the goal to push Obama’s approval rating under 50% before his first 100 days expire. We need to start a Creative Revolution first. That’s how Obama beat us…marketing.
TO: MIkie Reynolds
RE: [OT] Funny You Should Mention That….
…as it is now blatantly obvious that you are quite right about the reliability of Wikipedia, vis-a-vis the One….and other related issues.
You must have MISSED THIS article. Which has also been noticed up a Instapundit.
Here’s the gist of it, if you suffer from ADD….
It’s like fred and I were addressing a little above these posts.
Hope that helps….but, as you probably suspect….I doubt if it will….
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[A popular government without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy, or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives. -- President James Madison [Notes on Virginia]]
P.S. But that’s hard to do with the voices of the opposition are suppressed and the individuals ‘killed’. Don’t you think?
Or maybe PJM should kick/ban/kill you, because the majority here disagree with you…..like I’ve been killed at Daily Kos and myriad other allegedly ‘liberal’ web-sites.
To 234. MIke Reynolds
“McVeigh wrote various essays. An Essay on Hypocrisy describes the U.S. Government as hypocritical for justifying its attack on Iraq by stating that Iraq should not be allowed to stockpile weapons of mass destruction because it had used them in the past.”
Yeah that sounds real “right-wing” you know being thats like peacenik/left wing talking points word for word.
Mary #162..forget about the UN. That is not going to scare the regular person like me. Does it scare you? You need to get out more.
That the “Unthinkable” is even now being talked about is truly frightening to almost every American….but, let it be said none the less…
Remember, the most brutal and ruthless of men are usually “liberals or progressives”..as it has been throughout history….
I wonder which way the military would go….it is a terrible thought to even think…..
I can even imagine Obama & Co starting it themselves…to declare martial law and worse…
I don’t want to think about it……
But, I’m buying more ammunition..
Folks; violence would play into their hand and expose your flank–don’t do it. Demonstrating and protesting and getting the message out by using your 1st amendment rights will do more than violence. Don’t do it, please.
Carl – quick question:
And how do you suppose we are going to throw said “elected” officials out of office unless we force them out? Interesting that we think that somehow they’ll just go! Right now most “elected” officials follow party lines and do not represent their constituents nor do they listen to our pleas. If we the American people can’t get them to go peacefully, either by election or by asking them to resign – then we’ll make them leave by force!
OK, McVeigh was duped by the real criminals, then. Who would be whom? And you know this, how?
Seems to me, if you had evidence about any of this, you should’ve presented it while Bush was still in office. Oops! No, wait, Skull & Bones…….never mind.
Well said at #228 fred, and at #239 you are being too kind.
While we twiddle our thumbs watching our lives changed by the vastness called government, and we conservatives debate about the next step to take, the bad guys are still out there. And they are patient and waiting while we take our eyes off the ball.
One nuked city, one biological calamity and our country won’t change in months or years – it will change in minutes. Adding to the problem, it is a given that Israel must be constructing military plans as we speak because they are not going to allow Iran to get nuclear bomb. Only God knows what will transpire after that. Then we’ve got Russia and China bearing their collective teeth.
And I get no comfort knowing that a bunch of rank amateurs are now overseeing our national security.
Your faith does you credit, but I’d offer that enemies are as enemies do.
Is it our “friends” who seek to disenfranchise us via census “oversight” and unconstitutional representation for the District of Columbia?
No, our enemies are the people who wage war against us. They’re the people who want to kill us. Our enemies are the people who sponsored and carried out the 9/11 attacks, the nation that launched an unprovoked war against the US by murdering thousands of American citizens, Saudi Arabia.
Personally, I believe that our government’s alliance with the sponsors of 9/11 is close to treasonous, especially after the Saudi government sent suicide bombers into Iraq to kill our soldiers. If you wanted to start a ‘revolution’ against Saudi Arabia, I’d support that. They’re a fairly weak enemy, with a lame infrastructure that could be brought down by a reasonably well-informed black-ops type group.
But I would not support attacking our own government, even though I believe that our foreign policy, re:the Saudi/US ‘friendship’, severely weakens us – because attacking our government would cause a lot more damage than it would fix.
Unlike the Saudis, the left doesn’t even want to kill us. So, no they’re not, in any military or legal sense, the enemy. Waging some useless war against American citizens in this way would violate every political and moral rule in the book.
Chuck Pelto:
Colonel, the mutiny has already begun. Senator Menendez, Democrat of New Jersey voted against Reid’s wishes to effect cloture on the Obama Budget Bill.
Menendez’s people apparently read the fine print and found that the Alleged Hawaiian was trying to slide a policy change towards Cuba in on the QT.
It might perhaps have gotten him chops from the O-bots, but his fellow Cuban-Americans would have slaughtered him.
This is what I was talking about…where Obama wants to go, his supporters with political careers to lose will not follow, so they will balk out of their own self-interest.
At the end of the process, Obama may end his administration much like Hitler ended his in the Fuhrerbunker. Issuing commands to armies that existed only on paper and dreaming of building a capital that existed only in his mind.
Hi Chuck.
How much of a stretch would it be for barak hussain to bring in un troops to qwell any American resistance?
What do you think of the un millenium plan that obama pledged to support?
This would include the implimentation of the additional charters that make up the Roman Statute which supercedes our constitution and supreme court.
Is it fair to say we have been in a protracted war for many decades that has diminished our values to the point were it is now thought there can be no moral resistance since almost of the great generation has passed on?
If that is the case, can our system withstand such a calamity and if so, will we be able to remove the source (s) without armed conflict?
Would you agree then that all that has to happen for evil to triumph is for good men to say and do nothing?
Good comments fred, IB Bill, and others of like mind. I too will work peacefully for the needed change and will exhaust all reasonable avenues as well, but there are limits to my patience.
i for one am with old soldier back up there a ways. where i live , we have been “stocking up” also, and every one i know can shoot real well, and lets not forget, only 3% were needed the last time we had this old taxation without representation. at that time, i’m quite sure that the british forces were of the most powerful empire going. now that’s hope and change.
170. Paul:
Voting is how the socialists have gotten into power and caused this mess! Obama didn’t seize power illegally, nor did Pelosi, Dodd, Reid, or Frank. They were all voted into office.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So was Hitler.
148. Honest Jon said:
<>
This is probably the most irresponsible thing I’ve read with regard to home defense in a long, long time, especially from someone who purports to be some sort of firearms authority.
You never (and I mean never) fire on an unidentified target, not even in a war zone, let alone inside your house. What if it’s your neighbor returning your blender? What if it’s your daughter sneaking home late?
You sir, are not a responsible gun owner. I hope other readers of this thread won’t paint all firearms owners (the vast majority of whom are very responsible) with the pigment you’ve applied to the brush.
What are you, some kind of middle-aged mall ninja? Get some training for God’s sake. And if you’ve already had training, time for a refresher course.
To Always Right:
First of all, it’s not too late to buy a firearm. Go to gunbroker.com or auctionarms.com. There are plenty available in all varieties. Yes, the local gun stores may be stretched thin, but the second-hand market is thriving.
Go to the NRA website and investigate their basic courses. They are excellent, are offered everywhere and will include range time.
FYI, A pretty good and inexpensive setup that will cover 99% of your needs:
- 20 Ga Winchester or Remington pump action shotgun. Shotgun barrels are easily swappable (as in less than a minute) so you can get a short barrel (18.5″) and a longer barrel. Short barrel for home defense. Long barrel for fowling / sporting. Total cost: ~$300. Subtract about $100 for just one barrel. 12 Ga is fine too but 20 ga is easier for smaller individuals to handle and will be 90% as effective.
- Hi-Point 380CF semi-auto handgun. This will serve as an alternate home defense gun and can be used for concealed carry if you decide to go that route. If you’re worried about SHTF, it’s the gun you’d take with you on your trips into the world. They are reliable, low end handguns. Less than $150.
- Marlin 60 .22 semi-automatic rifle. You can buy one of these new at wal-mart for $200. A cheap scope will set you back another $40. The Marlin 60 is one of the most common, highest production .22 long rifles ever built. They are reliable and cheap. This is your varmint gun if you want to put meat on the table (e.g. rabbits). It’s also a great way to introduce yourself to rifles as there is virtually no recoil. Cost: $200 new, less than $100 used. .22 ammo is very cheap (less than $15 for 500 rounds).
- Savage 30-06 Model 11 bolt action rifle. This is your large game gun. You can take down anything smaller than a grizzly with this. Savages are extremely accurate right out of the box, well made and inexpensive. Cost with scope and sling, new: less than $500.
With those four guns, you will cover almost every conceivable use for a firearm with the exception of open warfare, in which case you’ll want a semi-automatic .223/5.56 AR-15 type or 7.56 AK type. This will set you back $1,000 or so.
After you’ve used this setup for awhile, no doubt you’ll want to upgrade here or there. There are as many opinions as stars in the sky.
Oh, and here’s an opinion of mine: please don’t buy a Taurus Judge!
Messed up the quote thing. Let me try again:
148. Honest Jon said:
“Here’s the thing about 00 buck and slugs: they will penetrate a wall, so if somebody breaks into your home, shoot ‘em through the wall!”
This is probably the most irresponsible thing I’ve read with regard to home defense in a long, long time, especially from someone who purports to be some sort of firearms authority.
You never (and I mean never) fire on an unidentified target, not even in a war zone, let alone inside your house. What if it’s your neighbor returning your blender? What if it’s your daughter sneaking home late?
You sir, are not a responsible gun owner. I hope other readers of this thread won’t paint all firearms owners (the vast majority of whom are very responsible) with the pigment you’ve applied to the brush.
What are you, some kind of middle-aged mall ninja? Get some training for God’s sake. And if you’ve already had training, time for a refresher course.
To Always Right:
First of all, it’s not too late to buy a firearm. Go to gunbroker.com or auctionarms.com. There are plenty available in all varieties. Yes, the local gun stores may be stretched thin, but the second-hand market is thriving.
Go to the NRA website and investigate their basic courses. They are excellent, are offered everywhere and will include range time.
FYI, A pretty good and inexpensive setup that will cover 99% of your needs:
- 20 Ga Winchester or Remington pump action shotgun. Shotgun barrels are easily swappable (as in less than a minute) so you can get a short barrel (18.5″) and a longer barrel. Short barrel for home defense. Long barrel for fowling / sporting. Total cost: ~$300. Subtract about $100 for just one barrel. 12 Ga is fine too but 20 ga is easier for smaller individuals to handle and will be 90% as effective.
- Hi-Point 380CF semi-auto handgun. This will serve as an alternate home defense gun and can be used for concealed carry if you decide to go that route. If you’re worried about SHTF, it’s the gun you’d take with you on your trips into the world. They are reliable, low end handguns. Less than $150.
- Marlin 60 .22 semi-automatic rifle. You can buy one of these new at wal-mart for $200. A cheap scope will set you back another $40. The Marlin 60 is one of the most common, highest production .22 long rifles ever built. They are reliable and cheap. This is your varmint gun if you want to put meat on the table (e.g. rabbits). It’s also a great way to introduce yourself to rifles as there is virtually no recoil. Cost: $200 new, less than $100 used. .22 ammo is very cheap (less than $15 for 500 rounds).
- Savage 30-06 Model 11 bolt action rifle. This is your large game gun. You can take down anything smaller than a grizzly with this. Savages are extremely accurate right out of the box, well made and inexpensive. Cost with scope and sling, new: less than $500.
With those four guns, you will cover almost every conceivable use for a firearm with the exception of open warfare, in which case you’ll want a semi-automatic .223/5.56 AR-15 type or 7.56 AK type. This will set you back $1,000 or so.
After you’ve used this setup for awhile, no doubt you’ll want to upgrade here or there. There are as many opinions as stars in the sky.
Oh, and here’s an opinion of mine: please don’t buy a Taurus Judge!
Here’s the way I see it.
Barack hires high level people, one after another who’r tax cheat.
Which tells me Barack doesn’t respect our laws.
Second, Barack believes in redistribution of
wealth, a socialist touchstone, and conjures up hate of the rich, a totalitarian tactic that smacks of Germany in
the 30′s. Moreover, Obama seeks
to nationalize banks and heathcare, and, in doing so, goes against the fundatmental framework
of the United States.
Consequently, Barack is not preserving and protecting our country, but trying to change it from the land of the free to the home of the socialist slacker.
Therefore, I follow not Oama, but the U.S. constitution. I promise to preserve, protect and defend this country from all enemies, both foreign and domestic.
Because Obama Barack is
President in name only I
declare him to be unfit for command. Thus, I encourage all Constitutional faithful Americans to follow only the laws of the constitution that predate Obama. Anything post Obama, by definition, I, as a lawabiding citizen, declare null and void.
From now on, I urge those who believe in the soveignity of the constitution to join me in defense of our great nation.
TO: NWMA
RE: Obama & Troops & Quelling, Oh My!
Using US forces shouldn’t be very hard.
After all. Look at the US Army’s participation in putting down the riots that took place with the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr.
Then again, in 1971, I participated, vis-a-vis being in the 82d Airborne Division, in putting down the May Day riots in DC.
Not very hard at all….
….except for this.
As a young rifleman in an infantry platoon, we had a little discussion of what would happen if an officer gave us an order that was in direct violation of our understanding of the legal use of deadly force: think Kent State.
Said officer would be in for a rude surprise.
Not sure EXACTLY what to expect of troops today. As at THAT time we were a mixture of volunteers (to enlist) and draftees who had all volunteered to become paratroopers.
All it takes is for the governor of a state or the mayor of DC to request such help.
As for UN forces?
I think they’d have a hard time of it if they showed up. And the president that called on them would be in deep kimchee.
RE: UN Millenium Plan
I wouldn’t give a DIME to that corrupt organization. The money would not go for the stated purpose. It would go to foment MORE corruption. More bribes. More women being sold into slavery.
RE: Moral Values
It’s not the war that has diminished our values. Rather it’s the vaunted American public education system and lazy parents. [Note: I do believe someone elsewhere on this thread mentions the 'parents' too.]
RE: The Case
Will there be hard times?
You betcha.
But what will be the source? The trigger? Internal affairs? Or something ‘outside of the proverbial box’?
The current system cannot maintain. Especially if something unusual happens. Look at what Katrina did to New Orleans. Compare that to how the other areas impacted by that natural disaster have fared.
There’s a volcano in the Canary Islands that is about to fall into the Atlantic. When it does, God only knows when, the entire eastern seaboard of the United States is going to have to deal with a tidal wave of unprecedented size. Much of it will be destroyed.
The welfare state that has been built up over the years will come crashing down. Only those who have the fortitude will survive.
Then again, there’s that thing that came out last weekend that I commented on at item #153 of this thread. If it’s what I think he’s sensing it is, I’d recommend reading Niven and Pournelle’s Lucifer’s Hammer.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed.]
TO: tc
RE: Violence
And what if they’re doing ‘violence’? Do nothing?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Violence never solved anything. -- Genghis Khan]
TO: Bilgeman
RE: Senator Menendez (D-NJ)
Good for him! I was unaware of that. Let US hope that this movement continues.
But tell me. Would Biden or Pelosi be better presidents? Maybe, if they heed the Tea Party movement.
Could these be a new twist on the concept of ‘Hope and Change’?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[In a revolution, as in a novel, the most difficult part to invent is the end. -- Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America, c. 1835]
I should say that the officers in charge of a full Guard brigade coming home from Iraq within a year have indicated to me that they disavow any legal duty to carry out the orders of an illegitimate President Obama.
When they return home in brigade strength, most have agreed to follow the same officers and take up weapons, forming a central Illinois militia.
If these groups can be organized all over these United States, we will have the firepower to initiate the retaking of our constitutional government. It is my hope that the governor of Texas will assume the mantle of command.
We we politely ask Barack Obama to step down, and without support from most of the military, it is expected the brown eyed handsome man with do just that. A new government faithful to an old document, the constition, will be formed. It’s first duty. To notify, Russia, China, North Korea and Iran that futher unprovoked incidents against U.S. ships on the high seas will be delt with accordingly.
If we’re going to have a nuclear showdown, we feel the time is right. Russia, North Korea, China and North Korea, we believe are all talk and bluster, without the stomach for a fight.
It’s time the greatest, most powerful country on the planet stopped letting two bit regimes kick sand in our face any longer.
If anybody wants a showdown, we’ll see who will backdown.
TO: Rachel Peepers
RE: Interesting Report….
…that.
Indicates that the officer corps recognizes that their oath of office calls upon them to defend the Constitution of the United States and does NOT include obeying the President of the United States, nor the officers appointed over them.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Against all enemies, foreign AND domestic.....]
Thanks Chuck.
Your old admirer, dimmed head gear.
Chuck – Menendez probably didn’t get all the earmarks and taxes he wanted.
Rachel Peepers: Ain’t gonna happen.
I believe the article has merit. When you think about it, you will conclude that all of us are only a few missing meals away from violence. If your family is starving or freezing you will do anything to save them. Humans are animals with only a thin veneer of civilization surrounding them, and once that coating is penetrated anything goes.
“241. the willies:”
LOL, your writing reflects poorly on you sir. It suggest a small man in both stature, and mind. Exposing a fear of freedom by coddling the security blanket of obscurity to engage in little more than the shallow threats, and insults of a coward.
I doubt I lose any sleep over the likes of you.
Mike Reynolds….What civil liberties? Apparently you haven’t heard that it’s payback time for the unions? ALL AMERICANS are about to lose their right to a private union vote at work. Nice to know when the union thugs came a’calling to the White House, President Teleprompter got on his knees in obedience. With the economy now in shambles you’d think Obama would want to be FOR American workers not union bosses. Guess we have yet another broken campaign promise.
So Mike, are you for the union thugs or American workers?
I agree that conservatives don’t start revolutions, but I don’t think they will need to start the next one. As the economy continues to tank and goods and food become scarce someone is going to realize that there are some people who have prepared for this event and have a stock of food and hand tools and gas/kerosene in their home. The government will pick up on this and label these people hoarders and blame the scarcity on them. This will give the people who do protest and do riot moral license to try to take these goods from the prepared. The revolution will begin when the rioters realize the hoarders are also hoarding ammunition.
Here’s what I wrote in that post: “so if somebody breaks into your home, shoot ‘em through the wall!”
260. what ever: “This is probably the most irresponsible thing…”
Check the quote. Personally, I have no kids and nobody (and I mean nobody) should break into my home regardless of whether they’re bringing back my blender or whatever. It’s not irresponsible to fire a round or two through the wall if your house has been broken into. If I hear a window get broken or my front door get kicked in, I’m just not going to wait until I see the burgler to start sending rounds downrange. If they get a chance to see you, they might just get a shot off before you. It’s not a chance I’m willing to take! We’ve had a few home invasions recently in my neighborhood, so I’m just the least bit jumpy. I hope you understand.
I never claimed to be any sort of authority on firearms (although I actually am due to experience with firearms since childhood and from the fact that I was an officer at a correctional facility and often had to carry a gun in public (and had a good deal of training to do so)).
And I am very much responsible concerning firearms in my home, on the range, and while hunting.
regards
TO: Old Soldier
RE: Menendez
Good point. And when others get ‘screwed’, maybe they’ll join the ‘muteny’.
RE: Peepers Comment
Which part? Or all?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The whole life of an American is passed like a game of chance, a revolutionary crisis, or a battle. -- Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America, c. 1835]
@139 geoffgo, What do expect me to write, that I would break the law? Recoup my property from those who have stolen it, or failing that, take vengeance on them?
Like you wrote earlier, I’m a reasonable person. I would consider carefully the consequences of breaking the law, and I would certainly not confess, publicly, in advance, if I were to decide to do so.
I fully expect 2010 to be like 1994. The House will change hands, and the beast will be starved, since revenue bills originate in the House. Obama will be a one term failure, and I’ll be dead from old age before the next Jimmy Carter gets elected. It doesn’t matter what the papers write, people see what is happening around them. Why just today they are writing that the market might get back to where it was when Obama took office by the end of his first term. I think he has claimed the mantle of “miserable failure” from Bush in two months. Imagine where we’ll be even two years from now.
Really good thread here. I thought I was alone.
I’m not ready to take to the streets and I’m not willing to sit there and go la-ti-dum-dum at what happening to our country. It’s like the Do Not Tread on Me Flag. There’s a reason why it depicted a rattlesnake and not, say, a cobra on one hand or an earthworm on the other. It’s best for everybody that we rattle here and now, loud and clear.
I can’t believe Wikipedia has become such a trusted authority! Some people believe anything they read on the internet; Well read this-Obama is incompetent!
Brilliant commentary, fred. Though, judging by your earlier posts, I guess it could have been worse…you could have said “F you, n-ggerlover”.
Is that your opinion of old racists who can’t answer questions about who it is they’re going to be killing in their revolutionary zeal, miked? The two of you do understand that people are actually killed in revolutions, right? As such, why the hesitancy in admitting it and telling us who it is that is going to need to be killed?
Enlighten us all, Oh-Great-Warriors of the Revolution.
Quite true, Honest John. But it’s also been my experience that you find the yellowest bellies underneath the shirts of the biggest blowhards.
Honest John@225
but, alas, I’m going to take everything that the gubmint is willing to give me (regardless if it destroys our country.) I’ll be long gone before the socialists turn our great Republic into some kind of third-world country…
I am sympatico with your situation, as I too may find myself in a soupline before long.
This shows the price we pay to become serfs…slow, insidious, seemingly inexorable reduction of the human spirit. You and I may not be around long enough to experience the enslavement-by-fiat of US, or its resulting slide into third-worldism; but some others here may have children they value.
To them, mea culpa.
Our retreat (mine and yours and the “boomers”) from our inherent responsibilies defines the future – insuring serfdom for all new generations of Americans, except those born to privilege.
One can imagine a John Galt sitting in a cave, (insurgent to the last) writing a true history of our time. The US was a democratic republic that achieved true human greatness – instantiating freedom for its entire population – which created untold wealth for mankind. The citizens negotiated it all away, and were “civil” about it to the end.
They reached across-the-aisle and acted bi-partisan and compromised in the spirit of “political rivalry,” until there was no wealth left to tax (remaining-to-be-confiscated); they empowered a band of criminals, thieves and scofflaws – all parties pretending to be the “loyal opposition” to each other – while they slaked an insatiable thirst for power at the expense of the law-abiding, taxpaying citizenry…dupes all.
The cowardly behavior exhibited by the conservative class during that time led us to…. Think Mombai – Malmo – Moscow – Juarez – Gaza – Cairo – Karachi – LA – Detroit – N0.
So, while we (John and me) ladle our alloted cup of soup from the public pot, we should at least be experiencing guilt pangs far worse than our hunger pangs, and remorse and self-recriminations for our betrayal. Or, I can deny it.
I’ll only have to bear this burden for about 10 more years at worst; less if they get into terminating the elderly, cuase we’re not cost-effective in the new Nationalcare program.
Seems we’ve elected a Nanny – a known recidivist serial killer – while granting tenure and permitting salary and pension benefits to be determined by the Nanny, and we’re calling this good for the children.
We’re busy writing a legacy that reads: “Most knew they were being duped, so they facilitated it….” and for that, mere apologies to the millions yet to be, won’t ever suffice. Ever.
I am curious, is there room for each of the States to have a referendum on their future in the United States of America, other than by citizen initiative?
Coming from Canada, the only referenda we get to
vote on comes from the government, and only two
have taken place in the past 60 some odd years.
One on conscription, if I recall correctly, and
on the Charlottetown Constitutional Accords (which went down to defeat in October, 1992).
Chuck – I am for secret-ballot union elections. Just because I am critical of the tone of a lot of this thread, you seem to have to construe that I approve of Obama and everything he does.
I don’t.
But we don’t do ourselves any good by hysterical fantasies about armed violence. At best, it’s “ritual boasting” and I prefer to leave that to savages, and to the Iranian goverment. Oh, wait, that’s the same thing.
Some of the MOST extreme Reich-Wingers in the USA are so unhappy with the results of the November 4, 2008 election – in which the GOP got it’s rear end handed to it – that they are ready to change our government by a revolution. That election was a preview of the future in the USA. Hate and fear are poor selling points, that and rapidly changing demographics spells the end of the GOP as a major party in the USA. By 2042 non-whites will be the voting majority in the USA. We are not likely to vote for those who hate, fear and despise us. The Timothy McVeigh clones who think it is their right to overthrow the democratically elected government of the USA will end up like Timothy McVeigh. Don’t think so ? Well, as President GW Bush said – Bring It On ! How do you idiots,you who are a very small minority of the population, think you will take control of the USA from us who are the majority? Do you intend to kill us all ? Or only those of us who will not kneel down to you ? Get a life. You racists are history. You can get along with us – or we can get it on with you, Up to you .I am a native American – We believe : Every day is a good day to die ! If YOU do not believe that, you should face the reality in which you are a LOSER ! Your choice. In any case, have a nice day .
After 3 attempts to get Senator Martinez ( a Republican) to answer my question regarding challenging BO’s citizenship I finally got his answer. To Quote him “Voters have no standing to complain about the participation of an ineligible candidate in an election…” Since the Constitution does not tell us how to enforce the citizenship requirement for Presidents, the courts concluded that only another candidate or his political party can challenge a candidate’s eligibility.
First of all I now see how lame McCain was as a candidate for failing to raise the issue.
Second, as a citizen I can not believe I have no right to challenge a violation of the constitution. Maybe it is time for a real change.
fred@231
We have to determine where the pressure points are in their logistical tail – academia – and use it to our advantage.
a) Time dependent – we don’t have 40 years…not even 10 to revamp the failed infrastructure. What can we do in 5 or less?
b) The battlespace is contaminated. Given the ubiquitous deadly radiation that impermiates the improvement of education, then superior home schooling is the only valid approach. The Web. Energy efficient…safer…saves each student hours per day. One great teacher can serve 10X the number of students and be paid handsomely for it (and be glad they’re not unionized) and absent the requirement to be the disciplinarian. Of course, parental responsibility is a pre-requisite.
Vouchers for tele-schools and homeschoolers can produce an educational experience that not only captivates the students, but transfers skills for more rapidly and effectively than can be achieved today. Anyone tells you different – they’re ignorant or lying.
PAR:
The first four words of the reply you received,”Voters have no standing…” are the real truth from D.C. The voters–the citizens–own the country and must enforce the Constitution themselves when the scum politicians refuse to do so.
Silver Wings:
I agree. The political parties agree not to enforce the constitution and the courts support them in it. It is clear the people are no longer even part of the process. If you look at many past elections it is pretty clear that one party does not even intend to compete, essentially giving the election to the other party. That happened when the Republicans had Dole run against Clinton. Did anyone actually believe Dole could win? This year we give McCain his shot, even though it was clear from the start he was a loser. Only Gov Palin gave him a shot. Now the press and many Republicans are beating her up to make sure she is not considered in 2012.
I do not believe that either political party represents my views, since for the most part their goals are only to stay in power and rake off as much graft as possible. It is time for a change.
What a lot of people aren’t realizing is that a lot of cops and members of the military are conservative freedom lovers, and will turn and help people, not fight them.
tc@248
Are you Baghdad Bob?
MaryMary@253
You’re right to object to all those Arab associations (they’re ostensible alliances), as many of us do. But, that’s soooo last year.
Now, the more immediate problem is evidenced by our Gov’t importing 10,000 HamasNazis to US on our dime, giving $900M+ to corrupt, death-mongering Palistinians (a non-existant state), treating with declared enemies and the establishment of Sharia Law in MN, all while intentionally running our economy into the ground.
“because attacking our government would cause a lot more damage than it would fix.” You know this how? I cannot fathom your reasoning. I’d suggest only one outcome is assured. It will lead to end of recidivism; either by the patriots or the overlords.
Snowman – I agree. The military is very conservative. Cops are somewhat – it varies by region and individual. I don’t trust big city cops or (obviously) the ATF. Out in suburbs and country, most are okay.
#288
To judge by the cops in the UK and the EU, we can’t assume that. They’re goons against their own people.
So it wouldn’t hurt to get to know our local cops. Smile & wave when they drive by.
Bring the ones on duty on X-Mas Eve cookies. If possible, get chatty with them. Sound them out.
Sorry about the bolding @280. I wasn’t meaning to yell. No preview! #$$%&)*&)%
I knew lots of cops in the National Guard. Most were local cops or state troopers in suburbs / rural areas. Good guys, not gun grabbers.
Now, the more immediate problem is evidenced by our Gov’t importing 10,000 HamasNazis to US on our dime, giving $900M+ to corrupt, death-mongering Palistinians (a non-existant state), treating with declared enemies and the establishment of Sharia Law in MN, all while intentionally running our economy into the ground
President Bush also sent millions to the corrupt, death-mongering Palestinians through UNRWA. The US government, under Bush, worked closely with Hamas-linked CAIR in an effort to help the feds “outreach” to the Muslim community.
As far as our foreign policy goes, the new boss is the same as the old boss – no matter who is in power, they’re all terrified of confronting our real enemies. They’ll all continue our long-running policy of brown-nosing the terror supporters.
Like the Left, instead of fighting the armed terrorist paramilitaries who want to kill us, local ‘revolutionaries’ prefer to vent their frustrations by trying to bully and intimidate their friends and neighbors. Because fighting the real enemy is too scary. It’s much easier to bark about Reich-Wingers, overlords, showdowns etc. But, like any overplayed song, it’s boring after a while.
Walk into any gunshop in the country or big box store that carries firearms and ask them how sales are over the past few months. You will get a dazed look or amazed look and the answer that they’ve never seen anything like it. Gun and ammo manufacturers cannot keep up with the demand. Maybe it’s just the threat of gun control, for the moment. But the folks are arming themselves.
all the rights, for all the people, all the time, now thats hope and change
Here’s an interesting fact for you conservatives: I’m blind with rage–and I’m a LIBERAL! I want most of the politicians, CEOs of big business, the bankers, and the lobbyists hung for treason. And I’m a liberal with guns too. I think we definitely will see more violence and protests. Some are going on now, but the regular media barely mentions it.
Actually, a major armed revolution would not be necessary when it comes to it. A simple armed march on D.C. would do the job. Drag the corrupt Congresscritters out by their scruffs and shoot them. Then, go home. That would send the message to their successors about where the line is drawn.
We may face opposition from police or somesuch, but it is easy enough to address. If the “mob” is made up of merchants, craftsmen, accountants, and other normal middle-class folks, if this is pointed out to the defenders, they’ll simply step aside. No one cares for reactionaries, but aggrieved respectable citizens engender respect from police. It’s not like Congress has the respect of said defenders. Simple dialogue with the defenders will sweep them aside, because they’d really be on our side. Honestly, who would stand and defend a Congresscritter?
TO: sharonsj
RE: The Mad Liberal Mentality
First off, we ‘conservatives’ are not “blind with rage”. This despite the histrionic expressions on the part of MIke Reynolds.
I’d recommend you calm down, especially for MIke Reynolds case here. Otherwise, you’re coming across as evidence that he’s ‘projecting’.
RE: Hang Them
I doubt if you could get a court of law to call for a death sentence….at least based on what we know at this point. Imprisonment for life and loss of all property and money, yes. Death. Not very likely.
RE: Protests & Violence
Sure. Protests are going on now. The Tea Party Movement (TPM). As for violence? Nothing on the part of the TPM. Otherwise, it would CERTAINLY be ALL OVER the regular media.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Who did YOU vote for for president in the last general election?
TO: Marc Malone
RE: Something ‘Simple’?
You’re forgetting the ability of the President to call upon an armed force of a battalion of Marines and another of infantry. And I have some doubt if any armed march, aside from a regular division, would move them aside as ‘simple as all that’. And if you’ve got a regular division involved it CERTAINLY is not going to be ‘simple’.
But I am reminded by Abraham Lincoln….
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties. -- Abraham Lincoln]
The turning point will be when amnesty is given to those that continue to invade our Country. We said NO many times and they backed off, I predict that they open the borders to refugees fleeing Mexico’s drug war.
We see how our Government gives millions of our money to LaRaza and Acorn. Taxpayers furnish housing, education, health care and money to people that have invaded our Country.
We are caring people but when jobs are tight, Americans expect all immigration halted.
FROM THE ARTICLE: “the party that emerges might not be the kind we want… This could become very ugly, very quickly.”
MIGHT not? more than likely WILL not
“I did not steal the crown. I found it. In the gutter. And I picked it up, with my sword.”
-Napoleon
if push comes to shove, the ONLY thing we should fight for is a Constitutional Restoration – and beware of opportunists in our midst
“297. sharonsj:
Here’s an interesting fact for you conservatives: I’m blind with rage–and I’m a LIBERAL! I want most of the politicians, CEOs of big business, the bankers, and the lobbyists hung for treason. And I’m a liberal with guns too. ”
That is nice.
Some more facts. While you lieberals/left have been busy trying a fifth column action on media, schools, and government bureaucracy. US consevatives/libertarians.. I.E. Americans have been busy getting military training. While you went to burn the American flag in some “protest’. We went to work, and spent a bit on ammo and arms.
Why, because we are well read in history and have read what you punks planned. You are not going to win without a shot fired.. fer ged about it… shots will be fired.
And we shoot better.
Good luck with your ‘bloodless coup”.
BTW, how are you blue areas going to eat…….when we stop sending food?
Grade Obama:
http://www.polls.newsvine.com/_question/2009/03/10/2528064-midway-through-his-first-100-days-how-would-you-rate-barack-obama?GT1=43001
Chuck Pelto:
What do you mean, a “battalion of Marines and another of infantry.” Marines, by definition, are infantry–grunts.
My guess is; that if Zero calls up troops to protect his worthless self, there will be mass defections below the rank of Colonel.
Colonels are very frequently brown-nosers, hoping to be generals and the generals have (for the most part) already kissed enough of the political class on the butts that they aren’t going to back away.
Any military counter-reaction will likely be from the lieutenant colonels downward.
“if push comes to shove, the ONLY thing we should fight for is a Constitutional Restoration – and beware of opportunists in our midst”
That has been precisely my point during this discussion. The only reason why we should, as a last resort, rise up in rebellion against the Left is because they and the government have so violated the Constitution that we must act. Constitutional restoration is exactly what I am in favor of.
And to people like “rvastar,” I would say the only Americans who need fear this process are those who are opposed to it. They’ll get what they deserve and not gratuitous violence, as he so reads into my comments. You hear that, “rvastar?” A civil war or rebellion, if it comes to that, of necessity IS Americans killing Americans. But it’s not for the hell of it, moron.
What’s up with this? Could the sheeple be awakening?
http://www.newsweek.com/id/188565/output/print
#304 Ms. Attitude…I voted! Everyone should follow her link and VOTE! There are some interesting results shaping up there!
Whatever you say, redneck.
Well, don’t let me keep you from your copy of “The Turner Diaries”. Happy reading
TO: Silver Wings
RE: A Battalion of This a Battalion of That
The battalion of infantry is the 1st Battalion 3d Infantry, a.k.a. the Honor Guard. Their primary mission is ceremonial. Their secondary mission, for which they ALSO train is to provide a rapid reaction force to protect the government.
The Marine presence in the Capital is at the Marine Barracks. I’m not exactly familiar with their strength, but I figure it has to be at least battalion strength, as a company would not have the necessary logistics and administrative infra-structure to maintain itself.
RE: O and the Grunts
Not unless there are some interesting, extenuating circumstances.
An armed ‘mob’, just by itself as Marc proposed, is not going to be enough for a mutiny in the ranks of well-disciplined and trained soldiers and Marines.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Our safety, our liberty, depends upon preserving the Constitution of the United States as our fathers made it inviolate. The people of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. -- Abraham Lincoln]
KILLER!!!!
Still planning the revolt eh? First cannister of tear gas at you internet warriors and you’ll scurry on home as fast as your little legs can carry you.
TO: All
RE: Muddleman vs. Reality
He don’t know me vewy well….do he…..
TO: Muddleman
RE: Ignorance IS Your Strongest Suit
Show me Prop Blast card and I’ll buy you a beer.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Stupid, adj., Ignorant and proud of it.]
311. Middleman:
“Still planning the revolt eh? First cannister of tear gas at you internet warriors and you’ll scurry on home as fast
as your little legs can carry you.”
I really love how all libtards are massive projectionists… They think because they are spineless cowards that everyone is a spineless coward… also does explain why they think everyone is a racist..
The Republican party needs to see what we are up against. HRC wrote her thesis on Alinsky and Obama learned his ways from Ayers and others, he started as a Community Organizer using these tactics. If we understand their tactics we can stop them and what they are doing.
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/8925/alinsky.htm
311. Middleman: You will understand soon what has happened to our country. Obama promised too much to too many people. They will become angry and with the economy becoming worse because of Obama’s actions THEY will revolt. The people on here are willing to protect themselves, their families and friends. And yes, their fellow Americans, who realize what Obama and his ilk really are, including you.
If anyone should wonder who the miitary will back, well, just watch the video:
http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2009/03/07/a-tale-of-two-presidents-or-semper-fi-vs-a-tepid-response/
I can’t believe the number of kooks that are ready for an armed insurrection. The thought of the country I love being torn apart, Americans killing Americans, makes me sick. You would do to this country what no foreign power could. For what? Organize, get ready for this next election. Fight with your brains not your guns. We will have our day!
After we’ve had our “fun” discussing military tactics, calibers of ammunition & suchlike war games minutiae, how about turning our attention to logic?
Case in point: any armed insurrection is merely the tip of an iceberg. For every man with a gun in his hand, there pretty much have to be 8 or 10 cheering him on. In otherwords, long long before you could get enough fighters together to accomplish more than a pinprick militarily, you would have amassed sufficient voting strength to make your insurrection unnecessary. At least that’s the way it works in a democracy. Of course a lot of you seem to be hinting that the American people are too stupid to deserve democracy. Anyone have the stones to come right out and say it?
“Whatever you say, redneck.
Well, don’t let me keep you from your copy of “The Turner Diaries”. Happy reading”
LOL, you’ve been beating the hell out of this loser, fred. He can’t think of a single substantive thing to counter what you’ve said and he’s left with only stereotypes in which to respond.
Middleman…..TRY US.
TO: TurfMonster
RE: rvastar
I think rvastar has an over-developed need for attention. And evidently the negative form will do just fine. I think it’s called masochism.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Pain is the only thing that tells him he's alive.]
TO: MsAttitude
RE: Excellent!
“If we understand their tactics we can stop them and what they are doing.” — MsAttitude
Thanks for that succinct statement of the ‘rules’ these cretins play by. I had been reading the book, but became thoroughly PO’d after discovering that Alinsky is one of those “ends justifies the means” mass-murderers at heart. Like Stalin and the late kulaks.
I’m going to look deeper into this and pass it on to my compatriots in the local Republican network. We’re building a grass-roots effort to retake the Republican Party at the state level, after the fiasco of letting those bozos give us McCain—who in my honestly held personal opinion is a traitor to his oath as an officer in the US military, vis-a-vis McCain-Feingold.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Know your enemy and know yourself and you shall never be defeated. -- Sun Tzu]
P.S. I suspect the dino-RINOs that held RNC and still hold my state-level organization, thought the ‘liberals’ [what a misnomer] would play honestly.
But, as we’ve witnessed during the run-up to the election and even here with rvastar, vivo, muddleman and MIkie….that’s not really true…..
P.P.S. The difficulty is that by playing by the same rules as our ‘friends’ do, we could become what we despise: liars and worse. So we need to keep a close eye on ourselves to avoid falling into the same form of self-destructive behavior they manifest so well.
There’s that famous quote from Gibbon:
A martial nobility and stubborn commons, possessed of arms, tenacious of property, and collected into constitutional assemblies form the only balance capable of preserving a free constitution against the enterprise of an aspiring prince
Well, we’ll have to do double service as both the martial nobility and the stubborn commons, but the advice is wise. It’s the best way to nip the bad things in the bud.
Arm. Unite, Get political.
TO: All
RE: vivo, Muddleman and rvastar
These cretins are using Rule #5. In the ‘irrational’ form.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Know your enemy......]
P.S. They remind me of The Joker from The Dark Knight.
All they care for is to see the world ‘burn’……
“At what point does discontent turn to violence?”
As soon as it becomes apparent our own families are in danger!
Does seem to far off to me.
Not for nothin’ but all this talk ’round here ’bout ammo and revolution and militias and the military deserting their posts and joining ranks of the disaffected Right – you know all that “defend the Constitution” and restore the rights and freedoms of the American way” crap you chickenhawk poseurs spew . . . well take a good look at Alabama this morning. That’s what happens when one of you idiots decides to “make things right.” What is it with you clowns? What is this need you have to throw open church doors or stomp into a McDonalds and start firing your assault rifle? How’s this – next time you decide to “take action” and jump in the truck and drive down to the Little Big Store to “kill ya some”, do us all a favor – put a bullet in your head BEFORE you leave the house . . . you sick, repressed, ignorant, redneck cowards.
TO: Another Chuck, et al.
RE: Maybe….
“Well, we’ll have to do double service as both the martial nobility and the stubborn commons, but the advice is wise. It’s the best way to nip the bad things in the bud.” — Another Chuck
….not as difficult as you might think.
Not that the military officer corps, commissioned and non-commissioned, makes for a ‘martial nobility’. BUT, they certainly are ‘martial’.
As for the ‘stubborn commons’, well. I think we’ve got plenty of those around here. Despite the wishful thinking of the likes of vivo, Muddleman, rvastar and MIkie.
And we DO have ‘constitutional assemblies’, if only in our county Republican and Libertarian and Constitutionalist parties.
And YES, we are “possessive of property”, we latter-day ‘kulaks’.
And lest we forget, we ARE “armed”.
Things are not as bad off as one might think based on Gibbon’s comment.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Thanks. I’d been looking for that quote for a couple of years now.
#324 P.P.S. Did I leave out ‘The Willies’, when I was describing the likes of vivo, Muddleman, rvastar and MIkie?
The latest entrant for idiot of the thread is The Willies.
The police in Alabama have no idea why “…Michael McLendon of Kinston went on a two county rampage before turning the gun on himself.”
But The Willies is certain he’s one of us here.
Maybe he could get a job as a psychic working for the Alabama Bureau of Investigation. Ya think?
Krumm, I do agree discontent can turn to violence, but where you say it would be directed is wrong. Why would it be directed at bailed out mortgages, banks, and local governments? How would people know if some bank got bailed out, or who’s mortgage got saved, or why would a local government bear any blame? If we as civilized citzens were to rise up, respect for our country’s property is first and foremost. The problem is in Washington D.C. Anyway, just wondering.
I meant to say … Doesn’t seem to FAR away to me.
If there is a revolution, the good people of this country won’t just have a new election implemented, but those opposite good the Constitution who will start their own riots “just to riot” in the inner cities are going to be revolted on too. The good people of this country will be out to take back this country and rid it from the garbage once and for all and that will mean the inner cities will have to be taken back.
MIke – I will say it – DEMOCRACY SUCKS.
Simple majority (mob) rule – is probably the worst form of government possible. The early Greek city-states that became democracies were horrible failures. Benjamin Franklin and many others have noted the pure democracy stops working the moment that people discover that they can vote themselves goodies from the government.
Our Founding Fathers were well educated men and knew the disasters that were the Greek democracies. That is why they founded a REPUBLIC with strict limitations on governmental powers and protections for the People.
Years of leftist work has eroded the limitations and protections of our Republic and its Constitution.
the willies: “well take a good look at Alabama this morning. That’s what happens when one of you idiots decides to “make things right.” What is it with you clowns? What is this need you have to throw open church doors or stomp into a McDonalds and start firing your assault rifle?”
Go watch these videos and learn some perspective, you myopic moron.
http://patdollard.com/2009/03/dr-suzanna-hupp-1991-and-2007-the-second-amendment-is-not-about-duck-hunting/
Mortrey,
I don’t need to try you, just like you won’t try this government.
I’ve been exposed to militia and far-right types before. Some are dangerous and intelligent, but the vast majority are hangers-on, no-action blowhards, the socially inept, sociopaths looking for an outlet, and finally the informants. Lots of informants. The leaders tend to have the biggest dysfunctional problems (such as being child molesters) and typically are all around losers who feel they are entitled to lead people because they know what’s best. That seems to be the standard case on both left and right.
If you want to revolt I suggest revolt against local government as they’ve been taking away personal rights under the guise of public safety (tax revenue) for years now.
I don’t think the people here are necessarily militia and far-right types. We’re law-abiding people who kind of took our rights and our Constitution for granted for too long. You know how it goes. Job. Family. Paying the bills. Mowing the lawn.
Superbowl–somehow the country fell through the cracks. But events are slapping us wide awake. Now we must wake up others and organize ourselves into a tough nut you really don’t want to try to crack.
Hey, PJ Media, keep this thread open. OK? We need to talk more.
The power grab by the “State” here in Connecticut over the Catholic Church is evidence that they intend to use the power they have to eliminate traditional values people by “castrating” the source of their values. The battle is about freedom in every way. Too many colleges (Harvard and Yale in New England)have indocrtrinated too many Godless foot soldiers for too many decades now. The revolution of the sixties was against all legitimate authority (secular and religious)and it not only blinked, it either laid down it’s weapons in surrender or eagerly joined the revolution. Reason and responsibility as well as all moral values have been co-opted by the shear power of special interests groups and their political puppetmasters. We have just elected a pro-infanticide president without a whimper of protest people. The evils of Nazi Germany are real-not in some history book. It is about good versus evil and evil is winning now. The goal is to destroy freedom and replace it with a Godless state. Those of you without a God had better hurry before they lock the doors.
Another Chuck: Don’t bother. I want them think I’m a redneck hillbilly, no their next door neighbor.
Chuck,
You and most of the people here might not be far-right types, but the far-right is currently working overtime in trying to paint a populist picture in order to recruit mainstream people discontent with the current political situation. When people start talking about guns it raises a red flag. Common folks, good folks, can suddenly find themselves spouting the rhetoric of the far-right (or far-left) and playing foot soldier and they won’t realize it until they’re up to their neck in it.
The country has been falling through the cracks for a long time and chugging right along into a Brave New World, but I’d honestly point the finger at state/local government, media, and pop culture before I would necessarily at the Feds. They are guilty, but not the main perpetrators.
And you remind me of the dump that I just took, Chuck…light, not a lot of substance, easily forgotten.
Be sure to say hi to fred at the Kleegle Mixer this weekend
(flush)
TO: All
RE: I Rest….
….my case.
These cretins are exactly the sort of projection rvastar just provided us all here. Their minds are full of the sort of excrement they like to use in their ‘discussions’. DISCUSSIONS! What a ‘joke’. And how apropos that rvastar demonstrate that whenever he opens his mouth, excrementable matter is all that comes out from his over-productive mind.
They leave a foul stench whenever they open their mouths. And are not worth the water necessary to flush them.
They are the epitome of what I witnessed at Daily Kos and other so-called ‘liberal’ sites.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The foolish and wicked practice of profane cursing and swearing is a vice so mean and low that every person of sense and character detests and despises it. -- George Washington]
Do you think about your potty often? did ‘oo make a widdle boo-boo in your pants, ravie?
Middleman, I largely agree with you, and think huffing and puffing and blowing the Feds away is silly talk. That said, guns are to liberty what claws are to a cat. A timely snarl and a flash can avoid trouble down the road.
TO: Muddleman
RE: Well….
….they’re getting a lot to work with from Obama and company. Especially the likes of rvastar, from outside the beltway.
It is blatantly obvious to even the most casual observer that the nation and the possibly even the Constitution are in danger because of the malfeasance and possibly even treasonous actions on the part of the Congress.
Even if YOU can’t see it, or worse if you ignore it, it’s obvious that a lot of other people CAN see it.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The best vision is insight. - Malcolm Forbes]
Another Chuck,
You’ll never find me being supportive of taking away guns. The gun shaped and forged the US as much as the hammer, shovel, or railroad. It’s cultural hardwired into the American psyche. That’s something Euros will just never be able to understand and what many people here would rather try to deny.
88. geoffgo:
Great Idea! May be you should bring it up at a Tea Party.
To those who in principle are opposed to armed revolt: What would you say to the founders of the country and the framers of the Constitution about their thoughts on the subject?
Is that document an anachronism and ancient artifact that used to serve its purpose and now we more sophisticated people should go beyond? After all, that is the thinking of the pols who now dominate the nation. That is the mainstream thinking in our law schools today.
It is not enough to call us knuckledraggers and hayseeds. BTW, the person who called me a redneck might want to eat his words, since I have two masters’ degrees to my name and am an investment professional. I don’t live in a trailer, have a beer belly, shoot cans out back of my house, and slap the wife around.
All of today’s “hot” debates ultimately boil down to this question: Are we going to remain a uniquely American nation with a government that observes the boundaries of power laid out in the U.S. Constitution, or are we going to “evolve” into a European socialist nation which gives government powers far in excess of what are allowed by our national and foundational contract? Can these people really think that the Constitution can be stretched and abrogated in order to make it fit their intellectual construct?
I’m not talking about rioting over food or the economy or some other tangential matter. I have also emphasized, repeatedly, the proviso that it is the instrument of last resort when the matters are not settled by the political process of putting the grievances and the correct framing of the problem before the voters and their representatives.
You can go to hell, rvastar, with your sanctimonious miscontructions of my intent.
143. Chuck Pelto: great list thanks
A question , Chuck…how long did it take you to attain your rank of “Poetic Gasbag, 1st Class” in the Revolutionary Corp?
Fred,
I would say the Founding Fathers would think you’re jumping to conclusions with this talk of revolt. You say it’s about saving America from the enemy within, but in reality it’s all about you and your group being pissed off that your horse didn’t win the race.
Middleman @349
You are imputing to me motives that do not apply. You just went ad hominem, instead of honestly probing the thoughts of the founders. A tad brief opinion mated with a cheap debating tactic. The issue isn’t the election, it’s the forthcoming policies which will dramatically alter the nation in ways that were not acceptable to the classical liberals that the founders were. For the record, I am not against a modest, reasonable system of taxation. There are things that must and should be funded by government; and I am not against a modest social safety net that is intended as temporary. But, the reinstatement of LBJ’s Great Society rolls back two and a half decades of reform. The war on poverty was an abysmal failure because redistributing wealth never succeeded in getting these people out of poverty and on the road to independence and a decent way of life. So, there is the issue of confiscatory taxation. The President trying to grab from Commerce the responsibility for the U.S. census is another power grab intended to take power away from the opposition by further gerrymandering districts. They also want to count illegal aliens in the mix, which I think is against the law.
There are the other ways in committee which aim to put the 1st and 2nd Amendments in the cross hairs. Also proposed are hearings and trails to bring the policies of the prior administration into criminal proceedings.
I could go on and on, but the point is moot. You impute to me malign motives, which means you’ve tipped your hand. You approve of whatever the winners of the election want to do, and because I don’t like it and see in it profound abrogations of the founding documents you call me a sore loser.
Since you cannot argue against the right of revolt, if it became necessary, your only line of counterattack against my argument is to label me a spoiled sport.
What exactly was I misconstruing about “gangbanging thugs”, “wild, city thugs”, and “Obanga”?
If you don’t want your meaning misconstrued, fred, you might start by being a bit more careful in using language that has blatantly racist overtones to make your points.
My exact words:
With what in that selection do you find fault, fred?
And an aside: you tell me “F you”…you call me “moron”…you’re gonna get it with both barrels, fred; hence, the “redneck” and Turner Diaries references.
Even talking about the kind of stuff that’s being volleyed around in this thread — armed rebellion — is EXTREMELY SERIOUS STUFF. And for all of you who are harboring delusions that the US military would simply fall in with you in attempting to overthrow an elected US govt — all because YOU interpret its activities as unconstitutional — you are in serious need a laxative because the bullsh!t’s backed up so far that it’s poisoning your brains. In the event of any sort of armed insurrection, it would be the US military carrying it out in the first place…not a bunch of internet warriors.
So instead of wasting your energy on silly weekend-warrior fantasies, why not focus on activities that don’t require such drastic measures — like nominating unapologetic conservatives (a la Rush and Coulter) who understand that the Left is nothing but sound and fury, signifying nothing AND figuring out practical ways around the Leftist news media in order to reach the public (my personal choice would be a complete Republican boycott of such media, thus forcing the issue into the forefront of public discourse).
rvastar,
So, in principle you reject the idea of rebellion as an anachronistic, 18th century artifact? And you keep on insisting that I put it on the front burner, contrary to the numerous times I’ve added the cautious proviso. You reject my stated provisos because they interfere with what you want to impute to me. I call that a bad faith argument, which indicates to me your low character.
You’ve created a caricature, a straw man, with which to publicly burn me. Who knows? Maybe you have fun with it?
I want to know why you strip away my cautious provisos and then take the rest of my expressions to fit into your interpretation of my wishes?
I should just stop at this point, since you are nothing but a rabid, attack dog that is set in motion by a few drops of blood or scraps of meat tossed on the ground. F you, and go to hell.
I’m sorry I missed the last two days of the comments here. I can’t be classified as a true conservative, but from the liberals I know and the posts I read (from that persuasion), they scare me more. I don’t believe in guns, but I’m open to change.
self preservation isn’t a bad thing
Fred,
You basically asked the opinion of what the Founding Fathers would say about armed rebellion and I gave it. I seriously doubt they would be all for it, particularly when you have Shay’s Rebellion as an example. They suspended habeas corpus during the course of that rebellion, and habeas corpus can be suspended by the government today in case of rebellion. This is in the Constitution.
It’s one thing to revolt against tyranny, it’s another to revolt again perceived tyrants just to install another set of tyrants you agree with. Yes, you are a spoiled sport, I don’t know what else to call you.
As far as LBJ’s Great Society is concerned, it had some shortcomings and it had successes. Out of it you have the National Endowment of the Arts, Public Broadcasting, and one of the largest DROPS in poverty in American history occurred. It unfortunately ghettoized some, but greatly helped others and so I have to consider that overall it was a success. After all poverty should be everyone’s enemy. It’s not about carry other’s weight, but giving them the tools to pull their own bootstraps.
Strikes me that if the gas bags on this site spent a fraction of the time they spend here doing constructive things, the country would be in better shape. Some of the people that have posted here are literally Cindy Sheehans of the right–imaginging their own bunker hill, when probably none of you are fit to climb a hill.
Others seem to have little if anything to do except peltocate–I mean pontificate–from a platform of limitless platitudes and quotations, but obviously limited knowledge. The most visible example of someone with endless entries with no substance (except when he stumbles on a decent quotation) is Pelto: What may I ask has Mr. Pelto ever done to improve the country except serve (as drafted probably) in a forgettable capacity no one else cares about and wistfully remember all those great days at some forgettable army base since then? I mean I am sure you pay taxes as I do; obey the laws as I do; but what have you done other than whine about Obama that entitles you to sit wherever you are and gas on?
Obama will win again because you blowhards will be here four years from now, having learned nothing and done nothing.
As a mom with kids, I find this a very frightening article/responses but I’ve also seen the wisdom in the “secession” talk bubbling up within the blogosphere, mostly lately. Revolution, secession, defensive tactics, offensive necessities — these are new ideas to most conservatives. It will take time for conservatives to realize that other, more typical options, have been eliminated. I’m not yet convinced about the need for revolution. Secession has its appeal, however, for the libs and conservatives can self-sort geographically by moving house or getting jobs in the regions that appeal to their political sensibilities. Perhaps, though, I’m by nature non-violent. It would be best to solve our problems politically, if possible. But, again, if not possible, then, well, I guess the ideas on this thread make sense.
Intelligent middle class people are being pushed too far. The pushback has begun.
To 356. Saul A
What no love for me… I feel left out.
I also won’t point out but obama can’t win again… 8 states now require the release of birth cert in order to be put on their ballots… which means he either releases and gets sued… or he doesn’t and he loses 8 states without a fight… Also their are another 5 states with are debating making it a requirement. Now granted obama could pull a win in the other 44 of “his” states…but good luck with that.
When the keg finally explodes… One word will rule the day: Fraticide.
Heaven help us. We’re going to need it.
We have elected President a man who thinks our Union has been totally imperfect from the get-go and he wants to fix that. Enough people agree with him to make what we’re talking about a civil war, not a revolution. Our Constitution and our liberty wouldn’t necessarily win. And, as others have pointed out, there are malevolent countries out there who would love to see us destroy ourselves. They’d happily help us.
Let’s not throw away our Freds and Chuck Ps and the others in doomed kamikazi attacks. At the same time, hiding in the attic like Anne Frank’s family with our canned food, bottled water and tiny pop guns, hoping the Department of Political Sanitation doesn’t collect us one by one is a dead end too.
Saul A is kind of bitchy but there’s a grain of truth in what he says. We haven’t been very attentive or vigilant citizens. We were too busy being busy. Well, thanks to the economy, some of us will have plenty of time on our hands. Perhaps we should become community organizers too.
Riddle me this . . . why is this thread generating three times the responses of other threads? I have a theory: Y’all just can’t get enough of that gun stuff. You watch ya some westerns and you see ya some darkies and you buy ya some Rugers and you reload ya some ammo and you blue ya some barrels and you laser-light ya some pistols and you getcha some abuse at the jobsite and you round file ya some bills and you share ya some misery down at the Dew Drop Inn and the next thing you know you’re walkin into a 7-11 shoutin “Now it’s your turn, motherf&$%ers!” and you fire ya off some rounds and you plink the last one in the back of your throat cuz you just can’ take ya being no victim no more.
Just a theory.
TO: All
RE: one on his own
Another iteration of rvastar, vivo, Muddleman, MIkie, heard from.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. -- Euripides]
TO: Another Chuck
RE: C’est Moi?
“Let’s not throw away our Freds and Chuck Ps and the others in doomed kamikazi attacks.” — Another Chuck
Hardly a kamikazi sort, unless there is no other course of action open. I prefer to fight another day. I taught my men that way when I was an infantry company commander: that DIP (Die In Place) is not the way to win a battle. Shoot-n-Scoot was the SOP. You live longer and kill more of the enemy.
In one MILES training exercise two of my TOWs took on ten tanks in a running engagement. We ‘killed’ every tank and lost only one assistant gunner who was stupid enough to be standing up on the top of the vehicle to get a better view of the battle. The tanks never made it to their objective.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Thanks for the memory……
#357 Hermy:
“It would be best to solve our problems politically, if possible.”
Politics ARE our problems.
#356 Saul A:
“Strikes me that if the gas bags on this site…
…when probably none of you are fit to climb a hill…What may I ask has Mr. Pelto ever done to improve the country except serve (as drafted probably) in a forgettable capacity no one else cares about…you blowhards will be here four years from now, having learned nothing and done nothing.”
Denigrate, denigrate, denigrate.
“but what have you done other than whine about Obama that entitles you to sit wherever you are and gas on? ”
The First Amendment to the Constitution, the price of a computer with a modem, and the subscription fee for an ISP.
Same as what entitles you to show up and belittle and disrespect your betters here.
#361. one of my own:
“Riddle me this…”
Give it up, oomo/ooyo/ooever. You’ve MORE than fulfilled your quota of idiocy and you’re just wasting bandwidth now.
Chuck P:
Glad a suburbanite civilian could conjure a good one up for you. My heart’s with you. My head is more cautious. There’s what you might call a lot of morale-infrastructure to be built. Getting people on our side understand Amendment 2 isn’t a right; it’s a duty. Getting them to get off their couches and meet and unite with their neighbors. Getting them to run for mayor, school board, junior librarian, whatever. Getting them to befriend the regime’s first line of defense, the cops. Getting them to convert their perfect lawns to victory gardens. In short, getting them to stop being office sheep and start being old-fashioned American citizens.
I’m intrigued by the Talibban path. Turning whole swathes of the country into no-go zones for the government that is 0only nominally in charge. #357 was talking along that line.
I have no idea whether the current sad situation will devolve into revolution, civil war, violence of some other kind, peaceful change via the ballot box or some other change by the public showing contempt. But fred seems to have a pretty reasonable and clear idea of what is going on as do both chucks , old soldier and most of the others. None of them are calling for armed resistance at this point but all of them have a sufficient grasp of history and human nature to know that nothing should be precluded given deteriorating national and civic conditions, and that under the right conditions such action may be both justifiable and necessary. Shays rebellion is probably not a very good analogy–the Civil War of 1860-65 is probably better. It happened once, in spades, and it could happen again–the political divide at present is almost as profound. Periodicaly, people like middleman, rvastar ‘and one of my own’ crawl out from under the rocks known as Daily Kos and Huffpo to fling poo and state that anyone with a contrary opinion or attitude is beyond the pale, not a true patriot, a moron, and almost by definition a racist. This childish population suffers badly from projection and insists on berating anyone denying the shallow philosophy of Obama and the left. The fact that many of us, and a rapidly growing number of others, either knew or are coming to the conclusion that the ignorant democratic party has elected an incompetent, inexperienced socialist, empty suit and is steering the country on a path toward destruction has to be denied, berated and battled (albeitly not very effectively)at every turn. Fortunately, these clowns really aren’t very good at what they say or do because they lack logic, a sense of history, or any appreciable intellectual honesty. They don’t get much traction, they don’t deserve much of a response, they certainly don’t deserve any respect (and will not receive any), and can reasonably be ignored. Or as fred so eloquently indicated above, they can periodically be told to go f#*k themselves.
“I would say that the government should not control guns except in very marginal forms. I don’t think it’s an important issue, because I don’t think the fate of this country will be decided i physical terms. If this country falls apart or the government collapses in bankruptcy, having a handgun in your pocket isn’t going to save your life. What you need in order to fight for a proper system of government are the right ideas, along with other people who share those ideas – not handguns for personal protection.”
Ayn Rand, interview with Raymond Newman 1980
The enemy is academia. Fight it from within and without, but especially within. If you can go back and get a BA or go to grad school. Seriously, they can’t stop you and if you are an articulate and knowledgable conservative, they will fear you. Gramsci can work both ways, we just have to be willing to make the effort.
TO: Saul A******
RE: What, Indeed?
“What may I ask has Mr. Pelto ever done to improve the country except serve (as drafted probably) in a forgettable capacity no one else cares about…” — Saul A
Sorry I missed that query in your initial dispensing of offal here. But after reading your first statement, I figured you were a waste of bandwidth. So I didn’t catch you question, which appeared later.
Thanks to Bilgeman, I see you HAD an actual question.
Allow me to answer:
• Developed a computer application as principal staff officer for logistics in a mech-heavy brigade that allowed logisticians in reserve component formations to quickly determine what types and how many rail cars they need to move their mobilized formations during Gulf War I. Thus allowing their men and women a tad more family time before deployment.
• Helped prepare the State of Oregon’s State Area Command (STARC) in how to respond to a major earthquake, a year before a major earthquake actually hit their state.
• Helped a number of other STARCs refine their plans to respond to national emergencies and natural disasters.
• Commissioner on two panels in my community.
• Helped my distaff run for state house of representatives. [Note: She's considering running again.]
• Co-Chair of my precinct for my political party. [Note: Three guesses....first two don't count.] The distaff is the other co-chair.
• Driving force behind the organization of my neighborhood as a voice in city politics.
• And last, but hardly the least, father of two gorgeous, highly intelligent females.
And that’s just a ‘short list’ of PAST accomplishments.
So tell me A******, what have YOU done for US. Besides being the odious gas-bag you appear to be here?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain. And most do.]
P.S. You fit that description to a ‘T’, prefectly.
Everyone seems to have abandoned the article that we’re all commenting on, so instead we’ve digressed to the point of discussing the proper handgun calibers and types of weapons people should buy, and whether the military will shoot civilians if Obama orders them to (frankly I think it highly unlikely that it’ll get to the point that he would be called on to give the order, even more unlikely he’d give it, and virtually impossible that it’d be carried out). There is a comment I have to make, though, that relates to the original article.
The author’s understanding of history is vague, and incomplete, at best. He compares the Battle of New Orleans to the Russians burning Moscow and letting Napoleon’s army freeze, and says that it’s evidence of America’s unique pattern of violent resistance. There are two salient events in history, right around the time of these incidents, that together make the author’s whole argument silly on its face.
1. The Russians only gave up Moscow, and burned it, after the Battle of Borodino. Wikipedia has the forces involved at 250,000 on both sides, and casualties at 70,000. Many more died there than at New Orleans; the Russians fought especially tenaciously around what was known as the Great Redoubt, in the center of the battlefield. The battle was an inconclusive tactical victory for Napoleon; he could have crushed the Russians further, but only by committing the Imperial Guard, which he refused to do because they were the last reserve of his army. The battle is generally regarded as one of the more horrific of the era, in terms of the concentrated violence involved. So much for New Orleans (really almost a skirmish by European standards) as a particularly violent event.
2. The year before the Battle of New Orleans, the British invaded Maryland and marched towards the American capitol. Given the author’s premise that we Americans are somehow uniquely violent, you’d expect that the response for them would have been particularly bloody. Instead, they brushed aside a much larger, but poorly organized and trained, American force at the Battle of Bladensburg, and then calmly marched into Washington D.C. and burned the place to the ground. They were only thwarted in their further goal of capturing Baltimore by the defense of Fort McHenry (which event led to the “Star Spangled Banner”) and by the sniper killing of their leading general, shot as he reconnoitered the roads from Washington to that city. New Orleans was the unique event in the War of 1812, not the paradigm.
Lesson: those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it…or draw faulty analogies from it, anyway.
P.P.S. Oh…Yes….I forgot one little item.
• Got 64 paratroopers to trust me with their very lives, as a jumpmaster on an outbound mission.
Bilgeman #365:
Characterizing a group of people for what they are (some loons, some endless talkers) isn’t denigration: its accurate.
Brushing aside the zany seccessionists and Apocolyse now-2009 types here, and just focusing on the blowhards that have done nothing–nothing –to better the country and do nothing to better it except whine all day, its no wonder the Democrats are cruising toward more deficits we’ll all be paying for decades from now.
You guys remind me of belly-heavy, high school football coaches in small towns: never made it, never will, full of useless advice and of absolutely no use to anyone. No wonder the republicans are in such trouble. No ideas. No plans for the country except whine, whine, whine.
Gee, Chuck, according to a quick Google search Oregon has never had a major earthquake and those teeny ones they have had offshore or in state have been so minor as to be yawners. Like many of your posts. But if I missed the major one you helped them prepare for, please let me know. It must have been horrendous. Do tell.
And you also helped some other state agencies clogged with unimaginative lifers decide what to do in an earthquake: hmmmmm. That must have been tough, since they could call down to California and ask people there who have actual experience. Overtime for cops, food, water, get the roads open, check the gas station UST’s. . .real demanding stuff.
I am sure you had a lot to offer, being a former jumpmaster, TOW rocket user, comissioner and neighborhood organizer and all. sounds like the kind of lifer-reaction evidenced by the police at Columbine that formed a protective cordon around the school, set up a “command center” while the bad guys were after the good guys inside the building.
PS: did the paratroopers get to select you or were you just assigned as jumpmaster?
PPS: that’s good that you have two kids you’re that proud of.
370 pelt of chuck . . . so you’ve been on the public dole your whole working life. What do you have against free enterprise? Why do you hate capitalism? Why do you think the government owes you a living? Why don’t you use your hands to pull yourself up by your bootstraps instead of begging for government handouts? Oh, sorry, did I misrepresent your life? Did I somehow denigrate your contributions to society unfairly? Tragic, isn’t it.
366 Bilgeman . . . Why are you trying to stifle free speech? What do you hate the 1st amendment? I’m gonna turn you over to Fox News for an expose on hypocritical constitutionalists.
DavidN:
“They were only thwarted in their further goal of capturing Baltimore by the defense of Fort McHenry (which event led to the “Star Spangled Banner”) and by the sniper killing of their leading general, shot as he reconnoitered the roads from Washington to that city.”
Hmmmm, not quite. I houseboated gray hull ships near Fort McHenry for 10 years. The Battle for Baltimore was a lot bigger an operation than people realize.
The Brits came by sea up the Chesapeake Bay after burning Washington city. They landed a force at North Point, near where the north end of the Francis Scott Key bridge is today, and marched near to where Patterson Park is located in the Highlandtown section of Baltimore.
This was where they ran into the Maryland Militia and the Brit General commanding this force was gakked by one of the “Merliners”. Two of the Bawlmer lads, Wells and McComas,lost their lives in this action. But the Brits were checked in their northern pincer.
The southern pincer was an attempted amphibious landing by barge at Port Covington,where the peninsula on which Fort McHenry sits joins the mainland,a power plant stands east beside I-95 at the spot today, (wave “Howdy” to my ex-shipmates on the Cape Washington and the Cape Wrath and the cableships as you whizz by ). The landing barges were caught in a cross-fire by a few batteries of artillery, and that landing was repulsed.
The naval bombardment of Fort McHenry was the one part of the operation that kinda-sorta did go as planned…except that come the dawn,our flag was still there.
I happen to be originally from the Chalmette suburb of New Orleans, and have walked that battlefield…Packenham was so arrogant as to be criminally negligent. Think “billiard table”…Packenham marched his boys, the cream of Wellington’s army, fresh from defeating the French in the Peninsular war, straight at a fortified trenchworks studded with cannon.(The fact that Andy Jackson could even find ground in St. Bernard Parish suitable for digging a trench that didn’t immediately become a “canal” is testament to SOME form of military genius).
Chalmette is a World War 1 battlefield 100 years before the Somme, (and without barbed wire or machine guns).
And then there’s Bladensburg…
The lesson here is fairly clear. The American irregulars are not the pushovers that conventional wisdom would take them for.
A lesson that had to be learned all over again 50 years later at places like Manassas, Marye’s Heights at Fredericksburg, and Chancellorsville.
TO: Saul A******
RE: Oregon Earthquake
You have lousy google search skills.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. I see you refrained from offering US what you’ve done for US. Probably because you’re still in junior high school. And that’s understandable.
P.P.S. My church lost friends at Columbine…..
#373 Saul A:
“Brushing aside the zany seccessionists and Apocolyse now-2009 types here, and just focusing on the blowhards that have done nothing–nothing –to better the country and do nothing to better it except whine all day”
I’m sorry, but would you mind telling me again what great service you, yourself have rendered to the nation that we should justify ourselves to you for?
Really…who the f*uck are you, anyway, but just another piss-lick with a PC?
“its no wonder the Democrats are cruising toward more deficits we’ll all be paying for decades from now.”
The Democrats are spending deficit money because they CAN, and because not ENOUGH people are howling in anger and fear about it.
But I sense that that’s changing…
“You guys remind me of belly-heavy, high school football coaches in small towns: never made it, never will, full of useless advice and of absolutely no use to anyone.”
Denigrate, denigrate, denigrate.
“No wonder the republicans are in such trouble. No ideas. No plans for the country except whine, whine, whine.”
There are ideas, and if you stop denigrating, denigrating, denigrating, you might actually hear some.
That said, this is a time of introspection and self-inventory and perhaps some purging for the GOP and the Conservative movement.
A lot of the conversation here isn’t really aimed at getting YOUR vote.
And frankly, I wouldn’t bother trying.
TO: one on your own
RE: It Is Ignorant, You Are
Yeah….Right….
Try THIS….
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. You sound like you suffer from long-term memory loss. You could use a nice database to replace your failing intellect. I could put you into something fairly simple….for a simple mind like yours. Not TOO expensive…..
#376 ooyo/oomo/ooever:
“366 Bilgeman . . . Why are you trying to stifle free speech? What do you hate the 1st amendment? I’m gonna turn you over to Fox News for an expose on hypocritical constitutionalists.”
“Fairness Doctrine”.
You’ve more than had your turn, now let some other faux-Marxist Progressive idiots have the mike.
P.P.S. As I told whatiza**, it was a ‘short list’ of PAST activities.
P.P.P.S. And the same question to YOU as for whatiza**. What have YOU done for US?
TO: Bilgeman
RE: [OT] Good Reading
Interesting coincidence. I’m current reading Walter Lord’s By Dawn’s Early Light regarding those battles.
The Brits are currently demolishing parts of Washington, DC.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[No one need think that the world can be ruled without blood. The civil sword shall and must be red and bloody. -- Andrew Jackson]
#381 Chuck Pelto:
“P.S. You sound like you suffer from long-term memory loss. You could use a nice database to replace your failing intellect. I could put you into something fairly simple….for a simple mind like yours. Not TOO expensive…..”
Are you kidding, Colonel?
ooyo/oomo/ooever would need a brain transplant and years of intensive vocational training to be promoted to “Moron”.
Can’t even keep the sock-puppets straight in the same comment-thread.
In my near 20 years online, THAT was a first…
Explain your references to “gangbanging thugs”, “wild, city thugs”, and “Obanga”. Until you do, you’re an intellectual coward…and you know it.
So, fred, why don’t you add that to your cautious provisos?
If you believe that I came from the Daily Kos and Huffpo, then your reading comprehension skills are about as advanced as your understanding of the concept of paragraphs
I think that “one of my own” and “Saul A” should marry each other. They certainly sound compatible. That way they can inject their wisdom in each other.
This is a democracy, we should all vote on it.
384 Chucky Pelto . . . don’t get too high on yourself . . . we need another database monkey like we need another lawyer . . . these days any sixth grader with an XBox can do what you listed. As for being a “driving force” that’s the clearest sign that nothing ever really happened. As for it being a short list, Im sure you held back the best stuff, right? Right. Trust me, CP, you don’t want to compare resumes with me. I’ve extended my reach substantially beyond my neighborhood and my computer.
Pelto: With the utmost respect, you not me are the one tendentiously droning on about nothing of importance while the country goes down the financial drain.
I don’t mean to be brusque, but you have probably more comments on this thread than anyone, yet you propose nothing except banalties like “take back the party.” With what? Your stories of days as a jumpmaster? Stories about that “major” earthquake in Oregon you mentioned and that Google does not have? (don’t tell me–the rest of the stuff you offered as a justification for your opinion isn’t true either is it?)
You offer no ideas!! Just whining and smug observations about people who are doing something.
And as it turns out, you’re already a GOP precinct co-chairman and again with all respect, (don’t worry–i won’t ask for your respect–i know you can’t give it to anyone that didn’t get drunk in a PX in alabama) you’re probably one of the reasons the GOP has flopped so miserably: no ideas, just whining and a desire to exclude people that have ideas you don’t like. Not ideas that are bad for the country–just ideas you don’t like.
I thought it would be helpful to get some understanding of what possible basis you have to endlessly pontificate and I see the answer is: none. Zip. The crabby looking mom on the “freecreditreport.com” commercials woud bring more cheer and originality to any argument.
Do us all a favor: we have a great country; it would be nice to keep it intact; look outward and try to develop a sense of the US beyond your own current outlook. Find some young people and let them direct the GOP where you are: if they hate taxes, want a strong military and favor locking u violent criminals, they’ll do.
OSCAR The Grump!!!!You can’t get under my skin you have too many sensible comments to your credit and none are boring.
For goodness sake, this is absurd. Overreaction of the highest order.
I don’t think obama’s policies are good, but if you don’t think such, vote him out of office next term. Go staff a third independent party if you think the two existing ones aren’t working. Use the mechanisms already in place to change the system. In a worst case, when he does actual harm, urge your representatives and congressmen to begin impeachment proceedings.
Buy for heavens sake, STFU about revolution. Thats what the bolsheviks did, and that just led to tyranny. Newsflash-the american revolution was a one-of-a-kind historical event that will not be repeated. Now it would just be an open door to dictatorship of the worst sort. You cannot build a democracy by throwing down a democracy.
Chuck Pelto: so you saved Oregon from a “major earthquake” that no one seems to know about and are a GOP precinct chairman that is doubtlessly responsible in part for the deflated GOP.
pontificating is not the answer. neither is excluding people from the republican party that didn’t get drunk in an alabama x when you were there.
PS to Oscar the grump: you crack me up. All your posts are sharp and funny. Behave.
TO: one on his own
RE: Party Options
I might do that. I do believe you’ve been around on some threads to have noticed that I’m not pleased with my local party. Especially the way the chair [mis]managed the last two years. Tonight there’s a meeting I’m attending to see what they intend to do about the situation.
We’ll see what develops. If it’s all white-wash, eye-wash and ass-covering, I’ll probably be visiting the libertarians when they meet at their monthly watering-hole gatherings. Besides the food and drink are good. As well as the discussion.
Who knows. I might recruit them to move into the Republican Party and do a take-over and house-cleaning.
RE: Reality Check
Yeah. Right. And without the joys of frost-bite, snake-bite, broken legs. Let alone doing anything in the REAL world.
You are such a child…..XBox…..
Please grow up.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[If you had a life in the first place, you'll never need an XBox. -- CBPelto]
P.S. I prefer my Macintosh and TacOps….when I take a break from writing code of taking the likes of you, rvastar, whatiza**, muddleman and the willies, to the wood-shed. Helps refine my tactical skill-set.
Which reminds me. You’re latest comment reminds me of that thing I recently saw on The Onion…..
Has YOUR XBox ‘experience’ properly prepared YOU?
TO: Saul A******
RE: So….?
Not only do you have poor google search skills. But English must be a tertiary language for you. You from Guatemala? Just swam ashore, stumbled into the Beaumont, Texas, public library and found your way here on their public use computers?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Anytime you want to get back ON-TOPIC, feel free to join in, child…..
TO: Dave D
RE: Over-Reaction?
Yeah? Show me where anyone has called for the assassination of the President or other political figure.
And be advised, as I mentioned to some other ‘over-reaction’ projector here, I do recall hearing and seeing such from the cretins at Daily Kos and on some so-called ‘news’ shows, e.g., sniper sight-reticle superimposed on the face of President Bush and the words “Snipers Wanted”.
Then we have some ‘liberal’ babe saying here that she wants to ‘hang’ a lot of people. You know….’mass murderess’. And she’s ‘liberal’. Like you.
So please, stop your projecting. We’ve already seen it with too many others of your ilk here.
Hope that helps. But if it only makes your blood boil all the more, I’d suggest seeing a professional about ‘anger management’.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured. -- Mark Twain]
Can I interrupt briefly this bicker session?
There’s a soldier in Afghanistan who doesn’t want to leave his dog behind. His mom is raising the $ to fly “Sandy” home.
Go here if you want to help. Let’s show the troops who their friends are.
http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=244515&ac=PHnws
TO: All
RE: On Topic
Another thought just struck me on where Obama could receive unexpected trouble.
There is an old adage that might apply to the foreclosure bailout….
Give money to a bad debtor and he will HATE you.
Let’s watch and see if that one holds true in this instance.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. If the adage IS accurate, Obama’s going to be suffering from a two-front attack, as the people who honestly own their homes are already PO’d…..
Chuck: I’m still waiting for some proof of that “major” earthquake. Denigrating my google skills won’t help you hide: c’mon, where is it?
And you have to admit that “one of my own” has a point about the data item you trumpeted as proof of…what I wasn’t sure. But holding that up as proof of an acomplishment that gives weight to your meandering posts is like boasting at age 40 about having a driver’s license. Or your neighbor, Ward Churchill, boasting about
being able to use a napkin.
But since you are only a tedious blowhard and not one of the out and out loons, perhaps you can tell us what, in your opinion, the republican party ought to do to control the deficit craze now, and to regain control of congress in 2010? (Other than rely on your google and data skills that is).
Please don’t say “retake the party,” and don’t say “get back to core principles,” since while all of that might be true, its like saying “don’t drown in that river.”
If you can’t provide that “major” Oregon earthquake, at least let us have your specific thoughts –if you have any-on this topic.
January 27, 2009 | Oregon Department of Geology and Mineral Resources
The Oregon Department of Geology and Mineral Resources has an interesting .pdf document on their website that describes a 9.0 earthquake on the Cascadia Subduction Zone. Here is a quote…. “Scientific research in Oregon, Washington and Japan tells us that at 9:00 PM on January 26th, 1700 AD, a magnitude 9.0 earthquake, centered about 75 miles offshore, ruptured along a 600 mile long fault, running from Northern California to Southern British Columbia, causing untold damage and destruction to the Pacific Northwest coast and the Native American tribal communities that made the coast their home.”
Oregon is in an area of active seismicity. There was the event described above which one would have to consider a major event. Tremors associated with the explosion of Mt. Mazama (Crater Lake) would also probably be considered significant as well. Numerous earthquakes occur on a regular basis and Mt. Hood (which if I recall correctly is still near Portlnd and within the state of Oregon) has been identified as potentially explosive, just like Mt. St. Helens and Mt. Rainier to the north. It is just a matter of time Saul A and it would appear that the blowhard is in fact yourself.
And if you Google “earthquakes, Oregon” the above is item # 4 on the list of 646,000 items that are found.
You have no Google skills and are apparently intellectually lazy in the extreme. Surprise, surprise.
Not that Google and Oregon earthquakes aren’t perfectly riveting subjects, but I was talking to a friend last night about the state of things and he commented that in the eyes of progressive people around the world, including the ones who are now in charge, the United States as we know it is a “peculiar institution”. A wonderful summation.
TO: MikeD
RE: [OT] Heh
The lineage of my unit does not pre-date the Revolutionary War of 1776. Nor am I THAT old. Otherwise my name would be a household word rivaling Methuselah. And I’d be a RICH, dirty, old man.
Furthermore, the exercise we threw at the Oregon STARC was only for an 8.3 under the Cascade Range.
The next year there was an earthquake, that when first reported was estimated at somewhere between 6 and 7. However, looking at it now, 16 years later (next month) I see they’ve downgraded it into the 5.6 range.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Back then, we were highly impressed with the organization and preparation of the Oregon STARC and National Guard. They were so well prepared that there was little we could throw at them that they were not prepared for: Mount Hood about the go ‘active’? Conference call between the Governor, the Adjutant General and the Director of Ops….claxon in the EOC….loud speaker….the Director says, “Activate OPLAN HOOD.” Twenty-two hand reach up, take down a binder labeled the same, telephone lines go hot and units are told to begin preparation for a volcanic eruption.
Same thing for a hypothetical radiation leak at the then still ‘hot’ Trojan Nuclear Power Plant west of Portland.
If you want to know the best place to be for an natural disaster….
….my opinion is Oregon….if they’re still as well prepared as they were in 1992.
TO: All
RE: Back On-Topic, Another ‘Indicator’
Check out THIS item.
The ‘new’ and ‘improved’ Justice Department is investigating the one County Sheriff who is actually enforcing the proverbial ‘Law of the Land’.
So, following and enforcing the federal laws is considered ‘evil’ by the ‘new’ and ‘improved’ federal government.
How very ‘odd’…..
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[As the indicators pile up, one gains a clearer view of what is going on. -- CBPelto]
#200 CSC (stalinist POS) We will be eagerly awaiting your visit, the same way other patriots awaited the British at Lexington and Concord.Lock and load!
Dave D: stfu yourself! This is still a free country, and speculative dissent is still protected under the first amendment. I relish the Jeffersonian notion that a patriot rebellion is the ultimate corrective for incipient tyranny.So should all patriots.
Americans are not going to turn violent: they vote and demonstrate and write letters to the editor; they volunteer, listen to the news and leave the “mob in the streets” stuff to other countries.
If the republicans demonstrate some fidelity to principles that people expect of republicans, they might restore fiscal order before we get back to wage price controls. But there are few if any people on this thread ready to participate in that process beyond whining about Obama which is only a policy to people w/o ideas of their own.
PS to MikeD:
Nothing is more hilarious that a someone that thinks he has a point to make when everyone else knows he doesn’t. I know you probably didn’t take time to put your glasses on and teeth in today in your rush to help Chuck, but if you READ the google text (or have it read to you), you’ll see–as Pelto pointed out–and you obviously missed–the earthquake in 1700 AD is a bit before Oregon was a state.
I bet you’ll figure out that it isn’t the one he was referring to as coming after his training. Good grief, tell me you’re going to be tested for eyesight at your Departmen of motor vehicles this year. And here’s a tip: you have to READ what you find on google.
TO: All
RE: And ANOTHER ‘Indicator’
Check out THIS ONE….which could well give the UN authority to shut down industries in the US.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[You can't make this s--- up.]
TO: All
RE: Saul A****** IS ‘Out of Touch’….
I guess Saul was not quite cogent at the time of the 1992 Rodney King Riots in LA. Either that or nothing more than a gleam in his father’s eye at that time.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
“Saul was not quite cogent…”
I must have been recovering from the aftershock of that “major” Oregon earthquake Pelto says occurred in the last 20 years but no one can find. Or from paying taxes to get MikeD a magnified screen.
But, private pelto has engaged only in a game of “gotcha,” and not accurately at that: (Mike D must be reading my posts to him): since neither Pelto, the aptly named Bilgeman nor Mike D can offer any ideas on how to improve things, I’ll make this my last response to Pelto (hold the applause guys): US voters aren’t into mobs; the LA-1992, watts-1965 were race-specific riots relating to local issues, not mobs seeking to overthrow the government like we see in some countries. 1992-King, for example, followed a series of events in LA where the media stoked the king video repeatedly (w/o showing all of it).
Nor were any of those aimed at overthrowing the US government: they were pissed off over local treatment as they had a right to be. The student demonstrations in the 60′s were all Vietnam war or draft related and folded as soon as the draft was eliminated. The point you ducked is that US voters are not going to turn violent as this article posits.
And again, no wonder the repubs are in such trouble; if the commentators here are any example, MikeD will misread his ballot, Pelto will be home reading “Jumpmasters At War…With The Syllogism,” and voters will once again turn to the Democrats, who purport to at least stand for something.
I guess I’ll have to run for office when I turn 25 or 35 and if I win, I am going to push to legalize gay marriage, close down the STARCs in states that haven’t had an earthquake in 100 years, fund rock concerts for teenagers with big GOP banners and Lincoln t-shirts, fund free summer schools for smart kids that teach free markets and western thought, and hand out photos of atttractive women that can be a congressional page if you win an election (OK i put that i to see who gets mad). but I am not going to spend a minute whining about what the Democrats are doing. I’ll leave that to Chuck, Mike and Bilgeman.
CHUCK PELTO :OLD SOLDIER: please read my recent post on Pope’s article about voting,you might find it intersting and relevant.Best Regards.
Saul A (presumably Alinsky,and therefore a POSstalinist).Congratulations! Saul, You’ve mastered the art of rewriting history to benefit the left,and hide the 60′s precedent for armed,anti-govt. resistance. Did you ever hear of the Weathermen,their bombing campaign,the math centers bombed, rotc offices trashed, the occupation of Columbia and Cornell by marxist thugs,Bill AYers, the Venceremos Brigade ?Why don’t you mention,your real purpose in writing,that of marginalizing speculative right wing dissent about possible armed resistance to an oppressive government,by pretending it’s never happened. What a wonderful sense of priorities you have! People’s 401K’s disappearing in response to the Ohole’s Alinsky inspired, marxoid ineptitude, and you worry about Gay marriage? That’ll get you elected in Marin county, ny’s upperwest side,and other freakish colonies of liberal tumors,but try that in the rest of the nation,see where it gets you..Enjoy your deluded 15 minutes of lickspittling the Ohole,Saul,when retribution comes,calling yourself Saul A will become shall we say? A bit problematical for your health, and THAT will be a HUGE improvement in this country.
Deguello: you sound like Neidemeier spittling out “a puuuhhledge pin! On your uniform!” And like Timothy Leary on red bull. But your are a partisian, no question, and remind me not to get within spitting distance of you anytime.
The 60′s: Once the draft ended, the mass appearance at rallies ended and the little reds and imitation reds like the SDS were back to being the marginalized fringe they always were in the US.90% of the people at peace rallies were there to protest the war, the draft or pick up hot chicks. When the reason for them to be there ended, they split. Nixon ended their reason for being there. Which again proves my point–(you do understand the purpose of having a point, yes?)…unless you really think all those people at those 60′s rallies wanted to oeverthrow the US. They didn’t.
Cornell’s take over was a whole lot of things including racially motivated and allowed by the spinless administrator there (see “Cornell, ’69″). It was no prevented, by the way, by pseudo-tough guys with a deficient understanding of history,the inability to spell “marxist” (its marxist, not marxoid”) or an obvious need for time off and some sleep.
I am hardly an Obama supporter but I am not a rabid partisian either: The 401k’s were tanking as Bush sought to funnel endless dollars via Hank Paulsen to Citibank etc on a rush basis. Or does your history only start with Obama’s inaguration?
You deguello, are partially responsible for Obama: you are so blinded by what you want to see, you failed to deal with the ineptness and corruption of the republican controlled congress. And oppsing gay marriage is just silly: if the republicans party stands for individual rights, let it be so. It ought to stand for what is right, not what might be opposed by every catfish eater and stump jumper. Losing the black vote to the Democrats is one reason the repubs are dwindling today: it didn’t have to happen. But you and others like you were probably as hostile to civil rights in the 50′s as you are to gay marriage now.
Get some sleep!
Hey Saul I have some simple a easy ways to fix tons of problems.
First close the mexican border. Next deport all illegals. This does tons of things.
1. Heavily reduces crime/drug problems. Which bank’s hundreds of billions in saving.
2. Hurts the mexican cartels and restores order to the border.
3. Offer a bounty of 15 dollar on anyone caught crossing the border over the vast majority of the border(dead or alive). This offers pays ppl as well as helps support the country.(would require some minor licensing issues and rules but simple enough)
4. Reduce the size of government…wholesale. IRS cut in half and tax code rewritten to be 1/100th of its current size.
5. Require a balanced budget from congress… and borrowing doesn’t equal balanced.
6. Require that 5% of the budget go to paying down our national debt(on top of full interest payments).
7. *****slap the UN and cut their funding.
8. Stop sending massive amounts of money overseas for nothing… ie 900m to gaza…WTF over?
9. Require mexico pay back the huge sums of money it owns us for hosting its criminals, its criminals/citizens not paying taxes, its criminals/citizens not paying hospital bills, etc, etc, etc. If they refuse to pay then we start taking their “stuff”. Since the government owns alot of the industry we can start with collecting things like oil tankers and a host of other cargo sent overseas from them… until their debt is payed. This would bring in hundreds of billions as well.
This alone would fix most of the US’s problems…
One reason why we’re having this rocky conversation is that neither party wants to close the border. The Dems see an open border as an endless source of plantation voters; the Reps as an endless source of plantation labor. We the People have been royally scr3wed by both sides. Time to take this country back, or what’s left of it.
414. Another Chuck:
the Reps as an endless source of plantation labor.”
I think thats a bit of a myth… only the RINOs see them as labor and even votes… just like the dems… mexcians like blacks make great slave labor in the eyes of the dems. They already have blacks enslaved through government programs and the mexicans aren’t far behind.
The main reason why many repub that aren’t RINO don’t want to touch this topic is because any talk even a whisper of saying “close the border” will get them called a racist along with a host of other things. Plus the fact that any action on the border that takes money away from mexico… both the cartels and government will piss them off then they have to deal with that mess to… no the repubs are being just simply being cowardly on the issue has nothing to do with labor. Plus the fact that the only way to enforce the border is to make it a free fire zone… once its declared a free fire zone the mexicans won’t even sit near it. But once again that would be “racist” and the media would be all over it…and the UN and etc, etc, etc.
Then perhaps a little reality check is in order.
Mexico is a country not a race.
Spanish is not a race.
Therefore, it is F*ING inpossible to be a racist when it comes to Mexico.
Let us shove the misuse of the term racist up the ass of anyone STUPID enough to try to hide behind something that is almost never properly used. It takes about 99.9% of all liberal BS out the window, not unlike a rancid fart.
To 416. NWMA
Its very true I love having debates with ppl like college professors and point that out… needless to say telling the retarded such as them only makes them angry… facts are rarely welcome at colleges or other places.
Its one of the reasons why the repubs won’t go anywhere near the birth cert issue for obama… anyone who even says the slightest thing bad about him is labeled a racist. Its also why any peaceful offering and honest debate on a number of subjects is doomed to fail.
robotech master: Your insane scheme would result in fewer lines at the hospital, less crowded trauma wards, lower medical bills, fewer people in prison and lower prison bills, a smaller national debt and a smaller budget for the UN to eat lobster while trashing the US . . .are you trying to ruin the status quo?
TO: Another Chuck
RE: Aaaahhhhh Yeeeezzzzz
Therein lies a crucial indicator of the problem in BOTH of the major political parties. An unwillingness to do what is ‘right’.
However, as I pointed out in an item above, this Democrat [mis]administration is going after the one county sheriff who IS enforcing the law of the land. That’s something of an ‘indicator’.
But to add sauce to their [stupid] ‘goose’, they are, at the same time, talking about sending US military forces to the border.
Talk about ‘schitzie’……
As someone commented and Instapundit repeated….
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Life imitates the Bible.]
robo…. when ever you make a liberal angry, you are very near the heart of thruth.
Just ask Chuck …….. I think he is the reason for more broken laptops than all mishaps combined.
( you’re welcome Chuck )
Yeah me and chuck tagged team cederford(sp?)(and a few others) on the obama threads… and cederford got pwned hardcore in other thread where he said that an event that happened, didn’t happen… I think he’s still licking his wounds because I haven’t seen him on here in forever.
really dimed out…
“The FBI document explicitly designates “defenders” of the Constitution as “right-wing extremists.” The MIAC report expands significantly on the earlier document.”
infowars.com/police-trained-nationwide-that-informed-americans-are-domestic-terrorists/
The MIAC report specifically describes supporters of presidential candidates Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, and Bob Barr as “militia” influenced terrorists and instructs the Missouri police to be on the lookout for supporters displaying bumper stickers and other paraphernalia associated with the Constitutional, Campaign for Liberty, and Libertarian parties.
423 As well as PJM ( and any other ) websites.
Anything you say can and will be misinterpeted and used against you. Just as you would select a target at the range, choose your words carefully. Once fired, you own them, forever. It’s always better to encourage everyone to play nicely. cedarford is a liberl hack who jumps in and out of converstations sometimes posing as a ‘moderate’. I called him a traitor, it sort of summed it up in one word rather nicely I thought.
TO: NWMA
RE: Indeed
But let us not take council of our fears vis-a-vis saying what is right.
We know these bat-rastards will lie in the first place. Usually taking things said out of context, as Marueen Dowd does using ellipsis.
Therefore, I suggest that when you make some pity statement, that you capture the page on which it was said in order to have a record of the truth with which you can beat some cretin over the head with in the public venue, if they are stupid enough to do such a thing.
RE: robotech master’s MIAC Report Item
It’s likely that it won’t stop with those groups. We have the incident in Texas reporter earlier this month about someone being pulled over for a homemade anti-abortion sign in their vehicle rear window.
The key thing is to keep track of such incidents to see if there is a growing pattern of behavior. If there is, it is a key indicator that things are going ‘south’.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Be Prepared. -- Boy Scout credo]
P.S. But also be well informed….
TO: robotech master
RE: Debating the Fools
I had a similar opportunity with a PC government official in the presence of a university rep, a community college rep, both school board presidents and a host of other representatives at a community-government oversight commission last Thursday.
This particular person was spouting off how anyone who comes to the table about Adolescent Pregnancy Prevention Programs (APPP) has to have scientific evidence to back up their claims. The discussion was about which programs work best, including their most hated form Abstinence.
Oddly enough, during the Q&A period after the initial presentation, it came out that they have no statistics of their own favored programs efficacy. That’s when I jumped in with both feet.
All this woman is doing is ‘it makes me feel good’ stuff without any idea as to whether or not it works. And she’s taking HER ‘cut’ of all that money passing through her hands. And yet she insists that everyone else MUST provide scientific data as to their programs’ effectiveness.
Talk about latter day Pharisees…..
The various educational institution reps, who had jumped on me when I challenged an anecdotal report from another party about abstinence, were VERY quiet when it came to the presenter’s lack of any data.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Research is a bowl of merde and statistics is the spoon.]
TO: All
RE: Who Are the ‘Rich’?
Of late I’ve noticed a number of articles here and there on how the ‘rich’ are being wined and dined in the Obama White House.
This strikes me as ‘odd’, considering how during the campaign, The One declared he was going to ‘redistribute wealth’ and that the ‘rich’ were likely to be people who had their wealth redistributed.
So why are the ‘rich’ all trotting to the White House and why is The One treating them so well?
Is it possible that the ‘rich’ are trying to buy their way out of harm’s way? And that The One is accepting their bribes?
If that is the case, who then will be targeted for having their wealth redistributed? The only other group I can think of are the ‘Middle Class’. The latter-day ‘kulaks’.
And this ties into the possible scenario I was discussing earlier in this thread. See item #12 in this thread. Go ahead and re-read it. I’ll wait……..
The point here is that if the ‘rich’ become the ‘commissars’ in this ‘new order’, and the poor are always with US. The only people to be fleeced are the middle class. Which parallels what happened in Russia in the first decade and a half of the Soviet regime. It also ties in well with Ayers pogrom to ‘re-educate’ the unwilling ‘kulaks’. Just as Stalin did in 1930-31.
What will be the indicators that this is what is going on?
How will we detect them?
And if it IS what is happening, how do we avoid the fate of the Russian kulaks of the 1920s and ’30s?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[History repeats itself. Especially if you're unethical, have power and have seen it work before. -- CBPelto]
What will be the indicators that this is what is going on?
There will be a warm wet feeling entering your ear that smells like urine.
How will we detect them?
The person causing it will try to tell you that it’s raining!
Long live the Rushvolution!
They have us surrounded Chuck, poor bastards.
TO: NWMA
RE: The Poor Sods
“They have us surrounded Chuck, poor bastards.” — NWMA
They REALLY have no idea of what they are up against.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[God is in control. -- Twilla Paris, and a host of old and new prophets]
#412 SAUL A. You really should deal with your saliva obsession Saul, I hear you can get wonderful spitoons at antique shops,it might serve as a sort of exorcist,for your imagined paranoia about people trying to spit on you. As for your other comments…Anyone who has read my PJM posts(obviously not you),knows that I despise Bush,freespending RINOS,neo-cons, and their imperial wars,so to accuse me of supporting,the policies that led to the republican electoral debacle is, to put it mildly,contrived.As far as the black vote is concerned;I disagree, the black community has been degraded and debased into a mob of welfare-dependent democrat robots who would not vote for a republican were he to walk on water and discover the cure for cancer.As the Obama presidency beggars moderate whites, and other ethnic groups,to pander to the blacks,these groups willlturn on him;the future economic crisis (stagflation) will ruin the demorats;just as the Carter years did.The OID issue..Are you serious or merely ignorant? I did not mispell Marxist, I wrote, and meant to write Marxoid. Let me educate you.From the Random house English-Language dictionary,(second edition) OID- a suffix meaning resembling, like ,used in the formation of adjectives and nouns, and implying an incomplete ,or imperfect resemblance.Examples: Ovoid,anthropid, planetoid. In your case your case, PEDANTOID,because being semi -ignorant, you really can’t be a full-fledged pedant.About the sixties,yes, it’s true, the left was unablre to draw mobs to its treason freakshows,when the draft ended,so they just switched tactics, and adopted the Gramscian approach, and took over the media,the academy, and even primary education,the election of a laundered Marxoid puppet of the left wing plutocracy,proves how successful this strategy has been.Are you trying to tell us that the black panthers were free market enthusiasts,concerned only with achiving racial equality,Saul? If you are,then you are DEVOID,of historical memory.You can and VOID your spittoon now!
Chuckie Pelto:
Reading your posts, and those of your ‘fans’ who consider you some kind of ‘colonel’, I conclude you really know very little about the real U.S. Army – at least the contingents above the rank of buck private. You may have served in the 82nd briefly, but clearly didn’t learn much.
Many officers – and NCO’s as well – are mostly concerned with promotion (efficiency reports) and their retirement benefits. Few would ever stop to think if an order is ‘legal’, only about going to Leavenworth for the ‘long course’. Unfortunately the quality of character in the armed forces has been degraded severely over the last few decades, thanks to the concentrated efforts of the leftists educators, ‘news’persons, entertainers, lawyers, judges, and politicians-for-sale at all levels. We win overseas through massive firepower and some fairly good training – that is all. If we ever face a real enemy (China, etc), things might not be so pretty.
In any case, betting on the ‘loyalty’ of the armed forces to their oath to the Constitution (my oath, once upon a time), is not a very good wager. One hopes that the younger types would not follow certain orders. We may find out, soon.
Others, like Saul A., etc -
“…when I turn 25 or 35..” – that says it all. Some of you young folks literally know nothing about what is going on. Is it any wonder when you, like Mikey et al, are products of schools with teachers who cannot read, spell, think, write, or count? What do you have to say that we should pay any attention to, at all?
The situation today is unlike any in history. It resembles the 1750-1770′s, except that communication and missiles are instantaneous. Various parts of our society are inter-dependent to a degree that is unprecedented. The far left has seized control of our government and is rapidly dispensing with any pretense of following the Constitution; the world’s economies are teetering. In short, the situation is highly unstable.
For all those who fantasize that conservatives don’t engage in revolutions (of course that would be an opinion fostered by our supremely ignorant educational establishment), the American revolution was just such a one. It was also grounded in religious faith – a matter of some inconvenience to today’s atheists who pretend to see their beliefs expressed somehow in our early documents.
jrc
Revolution is definitely an option; but I certainly hope we explore other, more peaceful and logical avenues before we reach a revolution.
Everyone likes to vent their views online and I’m sure that it has its merits. However, if you really want your voice to be heard, you should call or write your Congressmen. Yes, that sounds useless but it actually isn’t.
Viewpoints expressed in calls, letters, faxes and emails are tallied by the staff aides. Each pro or con communication represents about 1,000 voters. For instance, if an official receives 20 letters against an issue and none representing the other side, then he assumes that the twenty letters represents 20,000 voters who are interested enough in the issue to take a stand and this does carry a lot of weight!
This is why grassroots organizations can often grab the ear of a politician. If, nationwide, a large number of zealous individuals stand behind a cause, you can be assured that your point of view will be considered.
For this reason its important that when you care deeply about something, let your voice be heard publicly through organizations or privately through your own communication.
P.S. In a revolution, I would be one of the first to sign on.