Cops Shouldn’t Pull Guns at a Snowball Fight
There are occasions when a police officer, alone and greatly outnumbered, may find it prudent to draw his sidearm and project an intimidating show of force, thereby conveying the message that anyone who gets the least bit stroppy with him will soon regret it. A snowball fight is not one of those occasions.
I’ve spent my police career in Los Angeles, where in my lifetime it has snowed but once, and where as I write these words the temperature under a cloudless sky is nearing 70 degrees, so I admit my professional experience in dealing with snow storms, snowmen, snow drifts, snowshoes and, yes, snowball fights, is limited. Still, I’m confident I would not have followed the course taken by a Washington, D.C., police detective last Saturday when he found himself, alone and greatly outnumbered, in the middle of a snowball fight at the intersection of 14th and U Streets in the Northwest section of the District.
The snowball fight had been organized via Twitter and other social networking websites, and it attracted, according to participant Daniel Schramm’s thoughtful account in the Washington Post, a number of people who, like Schramm himself, were “young, well educated and politically active.” Schramm, for example, describes his own job as one in which he “analyze[s] policies designed to strengthen environmental laws in developing countries.” (And where but in our nation’s capital would you find anyone thus employed?) This demographic, he says, suggests that “a strong majority of [the snowballers] support new laws on climate change and health care. It was no accident that the detective’s vehicle, a gas-guzzling Hummer, was targeted for snowballing.”
Thus the stage was set for Saturday’s confrontation: a crowd of young, environmentally aware citizens sharing their communally held thoughts on global warming in the middle of a pre-Christmas snowstorm. Many of the revelers, sadly for the detective, were equipped with cellphone cameras and the like, with which they captured the events for posterity. There they were, flinging the white stuff hither and thither and having a rollicking, holly-jolly time when along came the gargantuan maroon Hummer, an opportune target for both their scorn and their snowballs. This four-wheeled leviathan, driven no doubt by some soulless Republican whose indifference to the perils of global warming was betrayed by his choice in transportation, simply cried out to be pelted. So, with limitless ammunition at their disposal, a few people in the crowd let loose a barrage.
Throwing snowballs at a moving vehicle does not sound at all safe for the driver. Throwing objects that may obstruct the driver’s vision is in fact potentially lethal. While I doubt there was deadly intent there was apparent threat. A group throwing stuff at drivers looks an awful lot like a violent mob.
While there is a right to peacably assemble enshrined in the constitution peacable doesn’t include throwing things. As many members of the mob as can be identified should be charged with whatever is appropriate, possibly disorderly conduct. The fines can mitigate the cost of investigating the detective… who didn’t actually shoot anyone.
“a strong majority of [the snowballers] support new laws on climate change and health care. It was no accident that the detective’s vehicle, a gas-guzzling Hummer, was targeted for snowballing.”
You know, when I first started reading, I thought it was organized in good fun – “let’s have a huge snowball fight, like when we were children”.
Great. A politically-oriented snowballl fight.
This is the saddest thing I’ve *ever* seen.
Right on! I was not there nor can I imagine a tenured detective placing himself into a situation where he would feel justified in drawing a pistol on someone throwing snowballs. I am hopeful there is more to the story, more than has been reported, and this detective was in reasonable danger where he may have been justified in his actions, but that’s unlikely. People make mistakes! Mistakes were made by both the revelers and the detective! To damage a $50K truck by throwing snowballs at it seems no more logical or proper than pullin’ a gun on the idiot that threw the snowball! Bet they were both surprised!
Welcome to big-government Democrat policing: psychotic serials killers are “mis-understood,” snowball fights cause deadly force training to “kick in” and the Constitution doesn’t apply any more.
Ok, that wasn’t the best move of Baylor’s 25 year career. He did appear to be somewhat nonplussed, not to mention foolish.
But those “kids”! They just couldn’t wait to lay into him with every epithet they wish they could give their parents (except they’d lose their allowance and maybe get a whipping-oh, wait! not from those parents).
“F*ck you pig” was the icing on the snowball. The Obama apparatchicki at play.
It’s always easy to Monday morning quarterback scenarios.
This one could have had multiple possible out comes……
1.What if the Hummer driver was not the police , and was
packing and didn’t have a high standard of care.
2.A snowball thrower seeing the drawn gun and stopping
the threat with a firearm.
3.A escalation caused by the drawn gun.
The thing that jumped out at me was the officer saying..
Throw another snowball
THROW ANOTHER SNOWBALL
Clearly adrenaline was running here.
He could have just drove on….then call it in from a distance.
Well written and full of holiday spirit! Loved it.
BTW, given the combatants, the cop should have had a Tommy gun let loose.
What a tool.
“while one must admire the deftness of the throw, one must also question the thrower’s wisdom.”
These are al gore’s lemmings. They should have just pointed them towards the potomac.
If this guy can afford a Hummer just how much do they pay detectives in DC
Right, Mr. Dunphy. Always a pleasure to read your comments since you unlike most other writers (here, there and everywhere) know what you are talking about. Keep up the good thinking and writing, and best wishes for 2010.
Michael Baylor has little to worry about. He is a black man. God help him if his skin was white. These lefties are going to pull their punches because of this single fact. But why aren’t a number of them being arrested? Throwing snowballs at cars can cause a serious accident. Moreover, what right to they have in doing so?
Those who “analyze[s] policies designed to strengthen environmental laws in developing countries” are usually pseudo-educated graduates of our modern day universities. Their degrees are as fraudulent as a three-dollar bill. They merely sit in a college classroom with their wet finger in the air and go along with the demands of their leftist professors. It also behooves these intellectually challenged individuals to jump aboard the Obama fight train—because they have been promised unearned lucrative careers and power to damage the lives of the the purple and red state areas of the country.
Those punks were violent GW freeks. They are lucky he didn’t run them over.
Medal?
Merry Christmas
It is well worth mentioning that on the same day as the DC snowball fight, across the pond in Sussex, a large group of people attacked and drove off two police officers and their patrol car with massive amounts of snowballs. These two somewhat similar incidents are important not so much by the similarities but by the differences.
Both events start with the time honored tradition of winter fun the snowball fight.In one a car is hit with snowballs and the driver stops, exits the vehicle and becomes bellicose and belligerent, the other incident the officers are forced to retreat to the safety of their car while the crowd tries to bury the vehicle one snowball at a time. The off duty detective draws his gun, while two on duty officers turn on their lights and slowly drive away all the while the barrage of snow continues.
D.C. due to the inappropriate response of one detective Michael Baylor and police unions unwillingness to just admit that pulling a gun was a boneheaded move are faced with an internal investigation. Whereas in Sussex the police spokesman’s comment “The incident appears to be harmless fun” ends the matter with gracefully.
What is the race of most of the snowball throwers?
What is the race of the cop?
Suffice it to say, if the races were reversed, the media and Sharpton/Jackson would be crying racisma dnObama would be call ing the cop stupid.
I was involved in a snowball fight at the University of Oregon back in the day. We *were* pelting cars going by, along with throwing white stuff at each other. When the police arrived (very rapidly, I might add) and dispersed us, the excuse was that a snowball thrown at a moving car could shatter the windshield. I suppose, if you left the snowball in the freezer overnight so it was rock hard and then threw it from an overpass at a car going 90 MPH, it might do some damage. But I have never, ever, heard of a windshield being shattered in a car going 5 MPH in a snowstorm by a newly hand-crafted snowball.
Even more so in a Hummer, which I have to wonder what kind of windshields do *they* have. Nevertheless, it’s probably not a terrific idea and the police are within their rights to break it up. For the snowballers, one hopes that they learned a lesson of their own: in real life, people *do* bring guns to snowball fights, and just because you live a green life doesn’t mean you won’t bleed red blood.
“But it’s even less advisable to bring a snowball to a gunfight.”
There wasn’t any gunfight you stooge. The detective behaved like an idiot. And he is trained NOT to act like an idiot.
He needs to be fired. And everyone is lucky the thing didn’t escalate.
JB2:
What is the race of most of the snowball throwers?
What is the race of the cop?
Suffice it to say, if the races were reversed, the media and Sharpton/Jackson would be crying racisma dnObama would be call ing the cop stupid.
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Suffice it to say if the races were reversed the chances of gunshots would be increased 100 fold. The detective was an idiot and should be fired regardless of the color of his skin.
6. Ron spins:
IF the driver was armed and not a cop he would be a criminal in DC where it would have been illegal for him to have the gun on his person in the car.
14. JB2:
The throwers were of all kinds of races and ages. But you have a point on the race of the cop. If you watch the video you will notice how differently black and white cops act. This is how it is in DC all the time.
As for the people saying throwing snowballs at cars id dangerous you would have a more applicable point if the cars were driving faster the 5 miles an hour. It is DC and we ended up getting 2 feet. At the intersections driving was even slower. I know, I was driving threw those streets that morning.
There was clearly bad acting on both sides but the cop who is trained and armed was the worst. He should have had better control. Some thing tells me this guy wouldn’t have been so cock sure down on the 900th block of I street, where the real crime is in DC and where the chances he would have been out gunned are very very good.
You are completely wrong. Attack with snowballs is still an attack, if you have a gun to defend yourself, then defend yourself with it. Put the blame on the official is as fool as putting the blame on Israel everytime it fights “rocks” with Uzis or Qassams with intelligent misiles, which is the same.
No “proportionality” should be the criterion, but who’s the offender, who started the attack. Mind you, put yourself in the position, you don’t wanting anything to do with a snowball fight and then receiving hits from a mob.
Greetings:
Two things came to my mind when I saw the video of this incident. One was the “Judge Judy” admonition about getting out of your vehicle in times of interpersonal conflict. The second was the similarity of complexion between the police detective and the thrower or the snowball that hit him in the head. Both remain unremarked upon.
Snowballing while stupid……
While the snow ball throwers were FAR from right. They were nowhere near as wrong as the detective who brought deadly force into play where it was not even vaguely appropriate. A slippery street surrounded by people is slip, fall, involuntary hand contraction and AD way from a dead teen on the street corner.
He didn’t need a gun to preserve his life while he called for back up. He could have easily sheltered himself from the “assault” by getting back in his car, and he could have completely diffused the situation by driving away. All of those are not just reasonable responses, but EXPECTED responses from a person entrusted to carry a weapon. If he had not been carrying tin he would have been arrested without a doubt. In most jurisdictions he would have lost his right to a carry permit and perhaps gun ownership all together.
The department should probably get rid of him. As Chief I would have a tough time trusting his judgment henceforth which basically makes him useless as a senior LEO.
Dumb meets dumber.
Many a kid has gone home from what started out as a freindly snowball fight crying or with a bloody nose. Adults are much more dangerous and throwing snowballs at moving cars is pure insanity.
A moving object unexpectedly hitting your windshield, or your face, induces an automatic fear/panic response. Reason can be overpowered by the adrenaline rush and anything can happen. You dont know who is behind the wheel or what they may do.
The fun part happens best when people are ready for it, want to participate, and have a way to quit playing if they have had enough.
That said this officer should probably lose his badge. No excuse for his behavior.
Snowball fights are for kids. Best leave it that way.
Spindok
19. Proportionality means you do not counter a superficial attack with lethal force. Lethal force is only to be used against a threat to an innocent person’s bodily integrity. A snowball is not such a threat.
An off duty police officer should not be treated ANY DIFFERENT than an ordinary citizen. Detective Michael Baylor should have been arrested his gun confiscated as evidence and his vehicle towed to an impound lot for retrieval at his own expense. Dose anyone relay believe this is the first time this cop has pulled his gun and assaulted people without justification. Michael Baylor has I am certain learned over time that this type of offensive behavior will be covered over and excused by the department, the union, And his fellow officers.
Look, I don’t care what the circumstances. Ya don’t throw ANYTHING at a cop. Nothing better to do in life ? Couldn’t possibly help shovel sidewalks for the elderly ? Oh, hell no. In a world full of problems to solve, nothing better to do than pelt a cop with snowballs ? We’re actually trying to justify this ? Three generations of adults who refuse to grow up and we’re now encouraging them to be irresponsible and unaccountable children forever ? No wonder we’re effing lost as a country. Fun is fun, but there’s a time and place for it, and this wasn’t it.
if one of the snowballers had pulled a gun at the sight of another man pulling a gun, the detective might have shot him dead and now we’d be hearing about how people shouldn’t be pulling guns.
I don’t think he felt menaced by a snowball, but by a mob
The following comment for:
1.Nate
2.Sapwolf
26. DaveinPhoeinx
People, please chill and don’t be so hardnose black-n-white. The police department knew about the snowball fight long before Det. Baylor showed up. The cop deliberately drove into the thick of the fun to cause a stink. And hey, when a target like a Hummer shows up what do you expect? The cop started the ruckus after 1-2 snowballs hit the truck. And don’t forget he was plain-clothed, never offered to show his badge, just his gun.
From watching several videos, most of the kids were holding off throwing snowballs until cars could clear the line of fire and even helping police cars who were stuck in the snow.
I lived in the DC area for several years. These people were urban dwellers who rely on mass transit for transportation. Where are they going to get rocks for a snowball fight? In 2ft. of snow to boot. Honestly, I don’t know why so many people are such kill-joys. There are all these “Chicken Little” ideas of “oh, what if this, or what if that. The same can be said for all aspects of life but we keep going. (cars, airplanes, etc.)
Personally, I would have loved to have been there. They were having a blast. Ski goggles and mask would have been a must.
Merry Christmas to everyone.
Personally I woulda just put the hummer in neutral and put the accelerator halfway down to get a nice greenhouse gas effect going to melt all the snow.
Well written, Jack. IMO neither stopping his vehicle at a snowball fight, nor once stopped stepping out to confront the snow-ballers, were not Detective Baylor’s worst decision – although they seem close. But a detective in DC owning a Hummer – though legal to do – has got to be bad decision of his lifetime!
Owning a Hummer in a law enforcement environment like that has to scream, “Look at me. I’m stupid and spend way too much money. I’m on the take and available for offers of graft.” If IA doesn’t dig deep into Baylor’s file it will only mean he’s really connected. [Shake of head].
15. NahnCee: Season’s greetings. In many, many, many snowball fights I’ve been in some of the snowballs were pre-wrapped around hefty throwing rocks. Hypothetically speaking, of course, and all in fun. When one of those missives strike a window with force it will often shatter.
13. gverdi27: The difference in the outcome in Sussex was based more on lack of courage in the UK and lack of wisdom in DC. You and I both know Brit cops these days back down from everyone,/i> because of irresponsible PC.
yourmama:
if one of the snowballers had pulled a gun at the sight of another man pulling a gun, the detective might have shot him dead and now we’d be hearing about how people shouldn’t be pulling guns
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Exactly. And the ignorant folks who call themselves conservatives think the more guns folks are carrying the better. Go figure.
Evidently the rumors that the teaching of American History has virtually disappeared in modern education are truer than I had dared to imagine.If a few of you folks had been exposed to that history you might still have a vague memory of a somewhat similar episode from the prenatal years of our republic in the City of Boston. That episode differed from the present case in that the forces representing legal authority were more numerous and more heavily armed, and they eventually felt the need to exercise deadly force to defend themselves. For the story of how that use of deadly force came to be judged legally justified, you might consider reading one of the numerous biographical works on the life of John Adams. An additional benefit you might derive from such a read would be exposure to the notion that “political courage” hasn’t always been an oxymoron,as has been the case inside the Beltway now for several decades.
The activities of these hooligans departed from the path of harmless fun at precisely the moment when they commenced to assault anyone who had not voluntarily assembled to participate, at which point the whole mob was probably subject to at least a legitimate aiding and abetting charge. Add to that refusing an order to disperse and assault on police officer in the performance of his duty and the fun loving leftists thugs should consider themselves lucky that they aren’t all cooling their heels in the slammer.
As to the the naive notion that throwing snowballs or other items at passing vehicles is a harmless pastime, I would suggest you peruse the archives of a few newspapers from up here in the Great White North where snow is our common companion and I can assure you, you will have little difficulty in uncovering numerous examples where damages ranging from minor bodywork to fatality have occurred.
Given that Det. Baylor works for the D.C. Police Department, which probably has entire manuals of regulations forbidding any of its officers from actually attempting to interfere with a crime in progress, he may when all is said and done, find himself subject to some disciplinary action. But he is hardly the first officer who chose to display his weapon when faced with an unruly mob, and hopefully he won’t be the last. For those who are convinced that a mob of leftists attempting to inflict their opinions on a disagreeing world should be presumed to have no harmful intent, there is a certain Mr. Gladney out there who might dispute that.
If there were any real justice left in this country. the numerous cellphone videos would be being scrutinized to determine the identities of any of those involved in the mob, who are on the public payroll, so that they could be summarily dismissed.
Here’s the deal: it seems extreme to pull a gun, but from everything I’ve read and seen, this was 1) a mob looking to get something good on camera and acting accordingly (like good little activists generally do) 2) throwing snowballs at cars has killed people-startling drivers on slick roads in thousand pound moving weapons, with plenty of pedestrians around to accidently crush is very dangerous and 3) he pulled the gun AFTER being assaulted with snowballs. You spit on a cop, thats assaulting an officer and you can be arrested, and arrests sometimes necessitate guns being drawn. Why should a snowball be different than spit?
gverdi27-off duty cops are REQUIRED to carry guns, and required to intervene in criminal activity or public safety hazards-a cop is never actually off duty. IN Texas, that mob (if they ever found snow to fight with) would have had a good chance of tossing that snowball at the car of someone armed and NOT a cop. They were stupid-the sort of stupid that frequently kills either the stupid person or bystanders or both. Had the cop gone on, and they tossed a snowball at the next SUV and the driver lost control and ran some of them over,they’d be calling for his head. Is there middle ground between driving on adn pulling a gun(after a continued assault, mind you)? Yes, of course. But it’s not always easy to pick what monday-mprning quarterbacks are going to call the best response, when you’re in the heat of things.
Wow-lots of typos in my post, hate that.
what’s a snowball?
ha!
Merry Christmas.
31. Bill Gannon:
Well written, Jack. IMO neither stopping his vehicle at a snowball fight, nor once stopped stepping out to confront the snow-ballers, were not Detective Baylor’s worst decision – although they seem close. But a detective in DC owning a Hummer – though legal to do – has got to be bad decision of his lifetime!
Owning a Hummer in a law enforcement environment like that has to scream, “Look at me. I’m stupid and spend way too much money. I’m on the take and available for offers of graft.” If IA doesn’t dig deep into Baylor’s file it will only mean he’s really connected. [Shake of head].
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Hummers are not that expensive for this area and a DC detective makes pretty good money.
momof4 are you or a member of your family law enforcement officers or do you just drink their koolaid? When off duty a police officer should have no more standing before the law than any one else in the community. And do not even go with what a difficult job they have. The fact that this detective wants to play Rambo on his way to or from work raises questions about mental fitness for the job. If we were to accept the notion that any action whether on or off duty is legitimatized by their employment can we the public, then hold the municipality responsible if this same officer while driving drunk home from a bar on a Friday night?
#18 , Phranc
Your assertion that if a driver was armed in DC , he/she
would be a automatic criminal.
If a person is already a criminal whats really stopping
them from busting a few caps into the crowd.
That’s the problem with gun control.
Create some criminals……………
37. Phranc:
True but irrelevent. A detective needs to blend in, not stick out. A Hummer sticks out big time. TOO big time for an honest cop, imo. Unless he uses it regularly for forages in the Sahara or treks to Ayers Rock in central Australia. Otherwise, its an ego thing and a cop with that much ego is bound for trouble. Looks like he may have found it, doesn’t it?
38. gverdi27:
Sorry, laddie, but an officer takes an oath to uphold the law and protect lives and property. There IS no “kings X” time. He/she is an officer 24/7. Even “off duty”. That’s just the way it is. Now I will agree they should have no superior “rights” to you or I, but that’s not what you said. As an “officer” they have “standing”, even when its not convenient for them.
Phranc, so now we’re telling people what cars they can own, based on their job? How very Soviet of you.
Off-duty cops do have superior standing. They can arrest you. Citizens can not. The first of many things that differentiate them.
The cop is a moron.
The fact that he drives a hummer for his personal vehicle on his cop salary is a possible indication of misplaced importance attached to his possession of same vehicle… and don’t give that old b.s. that this is America and I’ll drive what I want stuff.. yeah you will but that doesn’t change the underlying reason does it.
There is absolutely no reason for the introduction of deadly force (a firearm) into that situation.
None.
The police detective should be placed on at least a month suspension w/o pay and be subject to a police review board including a physiological review as well.
I always thought that the rule was, “never bring a snowball to a gunfight!”
40. Bill Gannon:
37. Phranc:
Hummers are not that expensive for this area and a DC detective makes pretty good money.
True but irrelevent. A detective needs to blend in, not stick out. A Hummer sticks out big time. TOO big time for an honest cop, imo. Unless he uses it regularly for forages in the Sahara or treks to Ayers Rock in central Australia. Otherwise, its an ego thing and a cop with that much ego is bound for trouble. Looks like he may have found it, doesn’t it?
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True but irrelevant? A hummer does blend in around DC. You opinion has little basis in the facts on the ground. How a $50 Hummer sticks out more then any other $50k SUV I’m not sure. Maybe where you live they are rare but around here they are very common place. Maybe you missed the whole SUVs are popular thing that happened but its hardly surprising for any one to have a Hummer that doesn’t need one. And this isn’t the same one built for the military. It is based on the GM truck frame and has a solid rear axle. It is hardly a great off road vehicle. It all comes down to the area. You obviously aren’t familiar with the DC area.
Wow, the right wing extremists want people shot for throwing snowballs. Fantastic. Well, we have to keep the order somehow. This was a situation that was on the brink of chaos. In fact, one university, I forget which one, estimated the crowd of snowballers at 1.7 million!
This is like the old lady who stood up and killed the tea bagger movement when she screamed, “Keep government out of my Medicare!” Conservatards want government out of their lives, unless it means taking away their entitlement money OR somebody throwing a snow ball. Clearly, it’s the right wingers who want a nanny state . . . “Owie, owie, owie . . . Mister Police Officer Man Sir, that mean meanie threw a snowball at me! . . . Waaa-waaa-aaa!”
Here’s a tip to all the conservative men, quit letting the women run your movement. They’re making you like a bunch of effing pussies. (Those three-cornered hats and ruffled shirts aren’t helping any either, FYI.)
44. Phranc: I understand, now. Thanks for explaining. He was driving an H3. Out west we call that a piece of junk iron and know enough not to confuse it with a real Hummer, but you guys back in the nation’s capitol probably wouldn’t understand the difference between the real thing and a Detroit knock off. And I was wrong about the cop, too. It’s perfectly understandable for one of your detectives to own that particular piece of junk. Out here where we drive hours and hours to get anywhere at all, real men just laugh at the H2 and H3. No serious petrolhead here would be caught dead with one. Heck, even our governator owns three or four of the real things, but none of the tiny little others. So thanks for clearing that all up.
The one thing I don’t see anyone talking about is the recent attack on several police officers by people up here in the great Northwest. Four officers were gunned down in a coffee shop last month as they sipped their morning coffees and checked their emails on laptop computers. In the month preceding that, an officer was gunned down while sitting in his patrol car with his partner. A few days after the Lakewood officers were killed, an officer in Pittsburg was gunned down in his patrol car as he waited for back-up on a shots fired call he had responded to.
What everyone fails to recognize is the fact that the sound of a snowball hitting the car, from the inside, is undoubtedly not all that dissimilar to the sound of a bullet hitting the car.
Cops are on the defense these days. And well they should be. For some inexplicable reason, disregard for human life seems to prevail with much of the criminal element when it comes to displaying any kind of respect for those who protect and serve. Look at Ft. Hood. Look at the Gates incident in Mass. Look at the number of cops killed in outright ambushes around the country.
Those immature snowballers should be counting their lucky stars that the police officer didn’t open fire on them. Can you blame him for overreacting in today’s disrespectful climate?
Yes you are right, law enforcement personnel should not throw snow balls unless maybe there is a handgrenade inside.
Being a retired Ca cop when the riots in Berkeley et al were going on, I had bottles, fece and various objects dropped near me because I had quick feet and dodged them.
However they are directed at ME. And yes it was my “job”. My remedy was to pick up the bottles, bricks, et al and throw them back. After my sgt. lose his teeth from a brick, I had no issue of self defense. (The Masonic Temples was being torn down and the “students” picked them up and threw them at ALL of us officers.)
If any bleeding hearts read this and don’t appreciate this short reply, write your prez, as he is NOT my prez. I think when someone is in the line of fire, fighting for one’s life/country, that person gets a different perspective and embraces the concept of SELF defense.
God bless America
jensad
I
48. jens: Agreed with all you said, but that begged the original question. In your opinion should the DC dick have stopped his car, gottn out and confronted the snowballers? Ignore the rest of the trolls. They don’t know jack.
Can’t see how it matters what political beliefs were held by the snowball fighters. Someone threw a snowball at your truck? Drive on. I have to salute the guy who connected, by the way. Dude!
Hummer 2 & 3 are not that uncommon around DC, so he really doesn’t stand out. I’ve known of people making less than a Detective driving a Cadillac Escalade. Throwing snowballs at moving cars is dangerous due to startling & distracting the driver not to mention that if it in any way damages the vehicle it becomes vandalism.
While he probably shouldn’t have drawn his weapon he was faced with a large number of people, aka a mob. While they may have been throwing snowballs any number of items commonly carried and easily accessible could have come flying his way and caused him bodily harm.
1) A hot cup of Starbucks coffee.
2) A bottle of liquid of some type, glass containers being especially dangerous.
3) Pieces of busted up street or sidewalk. (DC streets outside the area immediately surrounding the Mall suck)
4) Frozen snowballs
The other thing is the individual(s) who hit him with the snowball is guilty of assault. If you don’t believe me go spit on or throw a water balloon (equally harmless projectiles) a cop and see where it gets you.
While I tend to have a low opinion of Hummer owners (aside from the Hummer 1s and those who use them for work/rescue/etc) as they are basically saying “look at me I am pretentious and can waste money” its really all about priorities. Its a free country and they can spend their money on whatever they like.
I’ve seen people living in one room shacks with a brand new Cadillac or Lexus parked outside in Virginia & NC. I’ve seen ramshackle trailers with $40k-50k trucks & boats parked out front out west. Puzzles me but like I said, its a free country (for now).
Has anyone dared to considered that public servants who have to report to work, regardless of the weather, might need a hummer, truck, or some other type of vehicle larger than the little clown cars to maneuver in the snow? Det. Baylor is one of those servants, and whether he’s on or off duty it’s important that he can always report to work without excuses. During the snow storm there were numerous flashes across the TV for those with vehicles that could maneuver in the storm to come to the rescue of those who couldn’t make it out of their homes but needed medical treatment, or firefighters who needed rides to their stations so that could be present if called to duty. No one was soliciting the help of Prius owners to dig them out of the snow. By the way for those of you who think that there’s no danger in having a snowball thrown at a moving vehicle, consider having one thrown your way when you aren’t a willing participant in the “fun”.
Has anyone dared to considered that public servants who have to report to work, regardless of the weather, might need a hummer, truck, or some other type of vehicle larger than the little clown cars to maneuver in the snow?
No doubt. However there are numerous 4WD vehicles out there that are more fuel efficient than a Hummer 2 or 3, which is why I consider them the toy of the pretentious. At 9.2 mpg according to Edmunds its much lower than the 14-16mpg that other SUVs typically are rated at.
That impacts MY opinion of the owner, however I also believe they are free to spend their money as they wish just as I’m free to think they are an asshat for doing so.
Det. Baylor is an a$$ if he wasn’t a cop all of you people bending over backwards to justify his poor judgment and bad behavior, would be calling for his hanging. Being a cop dose not make you automatically morally virtuous, a superior intellect, or a bastion a of common sense. It means you trained to be a law enforcement officer and then found employment in that field. In fact police officers wives are at a statistically much higher risk of spousal abuse and battery. The really troubling aspect is the knee-jerk response to defend the cop merely because he is a cop.
Response to Real Deal: You’re right. But that’s what I luv about being American – we have the right to buy what we want to buy, think what we want to think and say what we want to say. And for all of those who don’t want a Hummer – are you happy that no one is trying to make you buy one.
correction: …aren’t you happy that no one is trying to make you buy one? (rhetorical)
Dear judgmental people:
Maybe this officer saved and budgeted his money so he could afford the Hummer.
Maybe he never spent money on overpriced outdoors equipment like titanium bicycle wheels or carbon fiber kayaks.
Maybe he eats meals at home and doesn’t shop at Whole Foods.
Hi Bill
You wrote, “jens: Agreed with all you said, but that begged the original question. In your opinion should the DC dick have stopped his car, gottn out and confronted the snowballers? Ignore the rest of the trolls. They don’t know jack”
The DC officer was off duty and his property was technically being attacked. Yes I would have gotten out and yes I would have confronted the snow ball participants.
Speculation as to subsequent events: I might have made a mistake to get out, but my first reaction is to see what is going on, and then try to find a way to a verbal/peaceable solution.
Having been surrounded several times by crowds of people before, my partner and myself talked our way out by being courteous and converting the group to help us and not get involved. If we had not used common sense we probably would have gotten our clocks cleaned.
Above all common sense many times works well. Did the officer use common sense drawing his gun? I don’t know but it would seem he might have been fearful.
No one was apparently hurt, except maybe the officer’s pride and his property. That is the bottom line.
Good luck to all and I hope all have a peaceable and wonderful new year.
jens
Seriously, idiots pretending to be children deserve what they get, you shouldn’t throw snowballs at moving vehicles in traffice no matter what! Just to have “fun” in the snow with other adults? The cop maybe wrong but certainly doesn’t deserve to be suspended. A mob of folks seemingly having fun can turn ugly in an instant. IF it was true fun these overgrown children were seeking why didn’t they keep to themselves with their snowballs instead of targeting traffic and specifically his vehicle?
They are the initial idiots, adults are suppose to know not to play in traffic in the first place. Should charge them with disrupting the peace.