Continental Commuter Flight Crashes Near Buffalo, NY
Early details emerging of Continental flight 3407 flying from Newark, NJ to Buffalo report crash with 48 people on board. (Raw video from crash scene added.)
February 12, 2009 - 9:46 pm
The Federal Aviation Administration confirmed that Continental flight 3407, flying from Newark, N.J., to the Buffalo/Niagara International Airport for a scheduled 8:48 p.m. arrival crashed with 48 people on board, CNN reported.
Further early details, and initial raw video from crash site, here.
Obviously, all pilot’s hearts are with the families of the NY crash victims. CNN’s coverage of the accident is what I have a complaint about. I can appreciate that everyone wants answers as soon as possible. As a DHC-8 pilot, however, I continue to be frustrated by the speculation that goes on immediately after a crash. For non-pilot reporters, I understand. But, when you bring on a “professional pilot” claiming to be an aviation expert (John Lucich) and he goes to questioning the experience of the crew because they fly for a “regional” carrier is irresponsible at best. Many of my colleagues have been flying for a “regional” for more than 30 years and have more aviation experience than a predominant amount of non-regional pilots. Because of reports like this, the public will now fear turbo-prop regional planes. In this case, the plane is larger than many of the jet aircraft that were flying in the 80s and 90s (BAC-111, F-28, etc). In fact, it is larger than the bulk of “regional Jets” flying today. Again, I appreciate the desire for answers. But, unintentionally impugning the work and experiance of “regional pilots” characterized as news is improper.
Matthew Kernan
DHC-8 Captain (20 years)
I can’t help but think that the pilot and crew are heroes at least to the people on the ground near the scene of the accident. What I’m trying to say is, it could have been a lot worse and I’m thinking he deliberately aimed at one house instead of crashing into endless homes and businesses attempting to make an impossible landing. My heart goes out to friends and family of all involved.
FROM THE LAST NEWS ABOUT THIS ACCIDENT, I CAN SAY, AFTER MY 44YEARS/12.000HR
OF FLYING DIFFERENT TYPE OF ACFT, THAT WAKE TURBULENCE FROM A PREVIOUS HEAVY
AIRLINER APPROACHING TO SAME RUNWAY MAY BE AN IMPORTANT FACTOR. I have experienced that kind of turbulence, flying a Learjet 25 behind a Boeing 757 and I can tell to my fellow Pilots that it is strong enough that you can be heads down very fast. And if you are flying AUTO APPROACH IS WORST.
I can write this comment now because I was flying MANUAL APPROACH and I was advised about that Boeing 757 flying my same aproach. ICE ON WINGS also is a factor, but are many signs from your airplane telling you that ice is there. But one reason for LOSS OF CONTROL with no advise to the Tower is FLYING WITH AUTOPILOT ON APPROACH FINAL AND DISCONECT AUTOPILOT TO FLY MANUAL. May be an overloaded Autopilot, trying to flight straight, and first notice of that, for the pilots, is at desconnection time. Airplane loss of control and very close to the ground to do nothing…to say nothing. I had that experience and I am trying to alert pilots about that.
Sioux City SD, DC-10 Al Haines, “Outliers” highly experienced elder pilot. New York City, A320 Sully Sullenberger, “Outliers” highly experienced elder pilot.
Does your pilot have gray hair and has seen it all? How new to flying is your crew? How experienced were this crew? New to the plane, in the seat? The Denver crew? Questions we have to really ask. Your life depends on it.
Captain Matthew Kernan is right. When a comment comes from a non-pilot, reporter or not, many kinds of non-sense speculation can be there.
But from my experience as Professional Pilot for more than 4 decades, my feeling is that pilots must know about WAKE TURBULENCE risk if flying an ILS APPROACH BEHIND AN AIRLINER LARGER THAN YOURS. BE AWARE OF THAT!!!
Also, ICE FORMATION when ILS approaching with Autopilot connected is a risk, because the autopìlot will tell you nothing about real efforts to flight your airplane straight…untill you disconnect it. Is a smash to your arms!! May need both pilots forces now to correct LOSS OF CONTROL.
Roberto Harriague-Argentina
PILOT-ATP B707 CL44 LJ25/35
Sounds very similar to the Roselawn, Indiana Plane Crash of American Eagle Flight 4184..and an almost identical aircraft.
On October 31, 1994, American Eagle Flight 4184 departed Indianapolis for Chicago. During a holding pattern, the plane experienced freezing rain and ice began to build up on the wings. While descending, the plane went into an uncontrolled roll and the crew was unable to regain control of the plane as it rapidly descended toward the ground. Within two minutes of the initial roll, the plane “nose-dived” into a farm field near Roselawn, Indiana, killing all 68 people on board.
I have a question for someone who is a pilot or aviation expert. Why has there not been something invented where the edge of the wings are kept warm with some type of device lining the inside of the wing? Seems it would keep ice off in theory.
Would someone please tell CNN to stop with their bullshit analysis. When did Richard Quest become an expert on aircraft and how they fly or dont fly. When did he ever take a course in CFIT. CNN just likes to speculate and hype up every story they ever get their hands on and create misinformation. This is wrong. Leave it to the experts and stop trying to get ratings. This is a tiring process.
Take a look at the props. Might have been an overspeed. Ref: ASA EMB 120. The most experienced Capt on that a/c and still could not save it. Icing – not as likely…
One of the victims was a 9/11 widow:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/burningIssues/idUKTRE51C50J20090213
Sending prayers and white light to the the families who lost their loved ones.
RE: #7.
Mike couple of factors, current de-icing systems on board are effective overall, two perceived weight and cost of developing and installing a new system.
But, you do have a point, with all of the tech increases in the last several decades, perhaps there is a new approach out there to an old problem
Dear CNN!
Stop speculating and using words and terms that dont make any sense in the context that you are using them. Do just a little bit of fact checking before you make rediculous statements. You people are a bunch of neanderthals. You piss on our profession and the memories of our lost fellow crew members everytime you open your mouth. DO YOUR RESEARCH! Act like a human being and not a robot just trying to be the first to jump on the story, regardless of how accurate it is!
I wonder if all these experts would care to be named, publicly, now? At this point, we have theories and speculation.
Why is there no public humiliation of the morons who jump on stage, only to be proven wrong when the facts are in? That would require the media admitting that we just don’t have all the answers. They’d rather make it up.
I’m certain we’ll have public apologies when the facts are known. My condolences to the families of all affected by this tragedy.
Just an observation based on Matthew Kernan’s statement “Many of my colleagues have been flying for a “regional” for more than 30 years and have more aviation experience than a predominant amount of non-regional pilots.” Please note that the co-pilot was 24 and had been flying only a year and a half. Based upon the ATC recording she was flying the plane, as it was a female voice, and the pilot is the one who would be confirming approach. I personally have flown on Dash-8 for over 15 years to commute to CLT, and was always concerned when I saw the 20 something flying the plane (not trying to be bias or disconcerting to the serious of this crash), but given the weather conditions, I question why the more experienced pilot was not flying the plane. My condolences to all the families and the flight crew families.
I’m a pilot, and aircraft operators must constantly stay in touch with FAA “Airworthiness Directives” (AD’s) that tell us about an immediate situation that has been discovered to impact safety, and required actions to take. It’s usually to do with aircraft mechanical issues. When an AD is issued, a particular component must be inspected or a procedure changed – right now, or else you’re grounded. AD compliance is a legal requirement for pilots and operators of aircraft.
It’s just been discovered that Rahm Emmanuel’s suspension of all Bush era regulations also stopped AD’s from being issued. This means that all mechanical or structural defects found in all US aircraft since January 20 were not reported into the system to be acted upon. This is the article:
http://www.aero-news.net/news/genav.cfm?ContentBlockID=bcd6902e-2f90-4d56-9992-51c365f74fee&Dynamic=1
And this is the FAA’s Airworthiness Directives site. Note that no Emergency AD’s show up for the last 30 days.
http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/airworthiness_directives/
Wonder if the elevators were in the “up” position and the tips of the props were bent forward on impact? Wonder if airspeed was increased for landing given the news reports that icing had been spotted on the wings by the crew before impact?
Dear Sherry B,
I must correct your comment regarding who was flying the airplane. Your statement; ” Based upon the ATC recording she was flying the plane, as it was a female voice, and the pilot is the one who would be confirming approach. ” That statement is incorrect. In a normal situation the pilot working the radios (ATC) is the pilot “monitoring”, while the other pilot is the pilot “flying”. After pilots recieve their approach clearance, the pilot “monitoring” reads back and confirms the approach clearance to ATC, and they BOTH confirm it together in the cockpit among themselves.
Based only on the very limited information that the “media” has given us, I can only speculate that the pilot flying the aircraft was the other pilot not heard on the ATC radios.
Regards,
G. Pennington
B-737 pilot, Alaska Airlines