Climategate: The World’s Biggest Story, Everywhere but Here
But by the 15th, CJR wrote:
Last Tuesday, The New York Times ran a front-page article by Elisabeth Rosenthal under the headline, “U.N. Panel and Its Chief Face a Siege on Their Credibility.” On Wednesday, the Associated Press ran one over the wire headlined, “Scientists seek better way to do climate report.” The difference between the two headlines — the Times focused on the panel’s faults, the AP on its attempts to address them — is important. Each tells half the story, but it is the latter that should lead.
In two weeks, CJR has moved from saying that U.S. media should cover the controversy to specifying what the “right” lead should be. CJR continues:
Bearing this in mind, it is easy to see why — as Climate Progress blogger Joe Romm first pointed out — Rosenthal buried her lede in the ninth paragraph, which reads:
The panel, in reviewing complaints about possible errors in its report, has so far found that one was justified and another was “baseless.” The general consensus among mainstream scientists is that the errors are in any case minor and do not undermine the report’s conclusions.
That is something that needs to be mentioned in the first few paragraphs. From there, a reporter can explain that errors were nonetheless made, which should remind the world of three things: that the exact timing and scale of certain impacts of climate change are subject to a lot of uncertainty; that some scientists will behave defensively, even to the point of negligence, when they feel threatened; and that all quality control-systems sometimes fail. Thereafter, the question becomes: what is being done about these problems?
That is, the “correct” view is that these problems don’t call the science into question, and the “right” question is to ask “what can be done about these trivial little problems?”
This appears to be one of the rare occasions on which we can observe the “consensus narrative” being shaped.
The CJR observes, correctly, that “outlets in the U.K., India, and Australia have been eating the American media’s lunch, churning out reams of commentary and analysis.” But it then concludes that there are no substantial problems; the “correct” view is that the scientific issues, and even more so the way that shoddy science was put together for political impact, aren’t particularly important and don’t call any of the conclusions into questions. Except, one assumes, the ones that have been determined to be false, like the impending doom of the Himalayan glaciers in 2035, or even the claim that the IPCC reports represented the best peer-reviewed science.
Which is, sure enough, the message being presented in the U.S. media. No scandal, no scientific misconduct, and certainly no actual fraud or criminality.
Motivations are slippery things, but consider just the facts: we have a mysterious lack of coverage of the repercussions and debate over Climategate in the world media.
Along with that, we have Revkin’s admission that for an environmental story to be of interest at the Times, it must ” … fit a very comfortable theme that all environmental stories for the longest period of time had, which is there’s bad guys and good guys.”
Finally, over the span of two weeks, the CJR — which may be less influential than it once was, but is still widely read between Harlem and Times Square — starts by saying that the U.S. media should be reporting this story, and moves to saying what the right reporting should be.
What the CJR has done, by accident, is answer its own question. The story has been covered the way it was, and to the small degree it was, because it doesn’t have a good guy to cheer and a bad guy to which the media can say “shame, shame.”
Or perhaps, it’s just that the wrong people have turned out to be the bad guys.
Why the silence ?
It’s called totalitarianism.
The TOTAL control of the society and of the minds by action (propaganda)and by omission (of the truth, of any truth).
It’s also called “how to boil a frog”: SLOWLY.
One omission here, one indoctrination there. One tax here, one union there.
After the tea parties, we probably need the “fridge parties”, otherwise the global warming scam will carry on, unchallenged by the truth.
Thank you Columbia School of Journalism. Your graduates keep the nation in the dark and well propagandized. It does not get worse than you.
Charlie, it’s pretty clear at this point that the AGW scam is too big to fail.
A bailout by The Left Wing Media was, therefore, inevitable.
The Chinese media did a pretty good job reporting Climategate too. I’m glad AlGore invented internet first before he invented global warming, and carbon trading.
Jeremy Warner fleshes it out:
Since Kyoto signatories bought in to the cap and trade concept in 2005, there have been more than $300bn carbon transactions, prompting several investment banks, including Goldman Sachs and Barclays, to set up their own carbon trading desks. But that’s just the start. If President Obama and his supporters can institute a cap-and-trade system in the United States – and that’s a big if for this increasingly marooned presidency – demand could explode into a $2 to $3 trillion market.
And here’s the great thing about it. Unlike traditional commodities markets, which will eventually involve delivery to someone in physical form, the carbon market is based on lack of delivery of an invisible substance to no-one.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/
Too Non-Existent to Fail [Mark Steyn]
Great post.
I believe there are some very fat cats who have a vested interest is CapNtax adding a lot of inertia to this story. However, I hope that mass effect will overcome this inertia and the mainstream media rats will abandon this burning ship just as they did a few years ago with Monica’s dress.
None of those papers employ anybody with a scientific or mathematical background. They have no way to gauge just how powerful the criticisms of this sloppy, blatant fraud really are.
The MSM in America does not seem to care about the truth.
They are involved with making Obama and crew look good, no matter the price America might pay. They do not seem to realize that if we fall, they will be some of the first to go down.
#6 Valerie: I think you’ve put your finger on one of the real issues. Matt Briggs has a nice piece today on what “statistically significant” means, and it’s more complicated than what people generally think it means. The people writing a lot of this stuff have no scientific background whatsoever; Revkin at least has a bachelor’s in Biology.
Not only will the leftypigs be crushed in November’s election, but that whining “But…but what did we do?” will be real.
This is the media that the American Left clings to. Hell, that Left has been almost created, certainly fed, by this corrupt and fanatical industry.
And they persist in attempting to reconfigure America. Why not? Many of them actually hold degrees in journalism, how’s that for credentials.
Where’s Al Gore?
I still have problems with this whole business of debating the levels of certainty associated with the Iraqi WMD program. My view is that ultimately it’s a waste of mental energy, since we’ve already got enough certainty to know that it’s a good idea to take out an insurance policy against the worst-case scenario — and by the time you’ve got the hindsight to have “no error bars,” it’s already too late to do anything about WMD.
There, fixed that for Mr. Kent.
OMG, what a brilliant article. It is such a shame that there are no journalism prizes of any sort for a writer who is not a Leftist. In addition, this article is a wealth of information for Americans who want to take seriously criticism of the MSM for its awful coverage of Climategate. I salute you, sir. You are brilliant and you are doing a great service to your country.
6, 8: yes, the US media employs very few people who’d even know the right questions to ask. Few US media outlets have ‘science’ correspondents; they have ‘environment’ writers who largely got where they are by being good little parrots and hewing to the party line.
I think the Brits are a bit better off in this regard but let’s remember that the UK media were even deeper in the tank for AGW than the US rags until the whole thing started turning over. So there’s an element of spurned-lover at work over there; a few of ‘em know enough to realize they’ve been lied to and don’t like it.
A few years back there was a CNN official (Eason Jordan) who admitted that CNN only reported news from Iraq that did not upset the leader of Iraq. It looks to me like the US MSM is doing much more of that in the global warming fraud coverup.If it upsets the Americaqn leftists, the MSM will not report it. IMO, we as bloggers should be able to get the story of the US Press coverup of the global warming story out to the American public. Surely, we all know Americans who are not happy having trillions of dollars stolen from US. Send these great articles to every one you know and ask them to do the same.
The key factor is that the advocates, bureaucrats, politicians, and scientists who advocate global warming measures and the journalists, editors, and media owners who report the news both believe in themselves as good shepherds to the ignorant majority. Both invest a great deal of emotional energy in being Platonic guardians over the rest of us. Both groups, of course, will be gone long before the Himalayan glaciers – but one can see why the news and the climate people have had such a loving marriage.
See “Climategate and ideology of news” and also “Global warming and The New York Times”:
http://vulgarmorality.wordpress.com/2010/02/08/climategate-and-the-ideology-of-news/
http://vulgarmorality.wordpress.com/2010/02/09/global-warming-and-the-new-york-times/
It’s time to follow Andrew Breitbart’s lead and call MSM jounalists out for what they are: despicable human beings.
They’re nothing more than handmaidens to the internationalist left that seeks to enslave us all. They’ll tell us whatever story fits the purposes of their Marxist masters; while totally “overlooking” everything to the contrary. It’s all about manipulating the “rubes” with the narrative.
They are part and parcel with the tyranny and evil that generations of Americans have fought to defend freedom at home and abroad.
The enemy stands revealed. Now it’s our turn.
I was suspicious of the “climate scientists” when I was first made aware of Phil Jones’s response to a request of his data several years ago. He replied, in effect, “Why should I share my data with you, you are only going to try and discredit my work.”
Well, yeah, Dr. Phil. That is how science works, you put up your numbers and your methodology and other scientists take their best shots at either discrediting or supporting your theses. Anything else is not science.
Climategate has shown that the primary actors are NOT scientists, as the emails revealed a group that refused to share data, manipulated the data, and stated they would destroy data rather than share it. The emails also show that they gamed the peer review process, blocked skeptics papers from publication, and behaved deplorably with their backbiting and childish comments about rivals.
In addition, we saw poor statistical practices, incredibly amateurish computer programming, and cherry picking of data and information to support a tenuous hypothesis.
What do we know of the actual science?
1. Are temperatures actually increasing? That’s hard to say, because the raw data are so hopelessly compromised. I would be willing to stipulate that the temperatures have increased a bit as the earth comes out of the Little Ice Age.
2. Is CO2 increasing? Yes, the data from Mauna Loa is pretty consistent on that, an increase of around 110 ppm (which is only and increase of 0.01 percent) from the beginning of the Industrial Age until now.
3. Do we have causation, or simply correlation? From what we know and can measure in the laboratory, CO2 does have a modest greenhouse effect due to absorption of IR energy, but the concentrations of CO2 are too small to account for the purported increase.
4. For CO2 to be a real problem, the climate scientists hypothesize a positive feedback mechanism, where CO2 acts to produce an even stronger greenhouse effect with water vapor, the major greenhouse gas in the atmosphere.
For me, (4) is where the science breaks down. I am not aware of any experimental evidence to support the positive feedback mechanism. Climategate revealed this nicely, when Kevin Trenberth famously wrote, “Where is the global warming? Our measurement systems are not adequate!” Now, despite the problems with Lindzen and Choi’s paper, they have at least have some experimental data that suggest that the feedback mechanism is not positive, but may actually be slightly negative.
So, for me, until someone can demonstrate that CO2 can induce some type of positive feedback with real, measurable results, then we don’t yet have real science. What we have is idle speculation.
Charlie, Valerie
Heck, it isn’t just the msm reporters who have a weak statistical background. The Wegman report castigated climatologists in a way I would have found personally humiliating:
This from a blue panel investigation done at the request of the US Congress by the National Academy of Sciences in 2006. And, from what I have seen so far, the severe criticisms didn’t penetrate very far.
So if the scientists themselves are innumerate, how much hope is there that the MSM poly-sci journalists would be any more informed? The only characteristic both groups of advocates share in abundance is an undeserved sense of perfection.
The story of scientific misconduct and fraud has been in front of the press for years and they did not pursue it. In fact, the press persecuted anyone who dared be skeptical of AGW. From their perspective, nothing has really changed.
As a working scientist I have about had it with thus “minor error” s**t. These fellows erroneously predicted the catastrophic melting of the Himalayan glaciers that feed the key rivers of Asia, the virtual disappearance of the Amazon rainforest that controls a significant part of our atmosphere, and African droughts leading to epic starvation. And in each case they have had to admit that they were not only wrong, but put forward these apocalyptic prognostications on the basis of junk science of a level that would not pass muster in a sixth-grade science fair.
An accurate assessment places them alongside the latest “prophet” who predicted the end of the world on Tuesday, and then had to face the music on Wednesday morning. So what do they do? Warmists, pressers and pols, they join hands and stand up proudly and quote the immortal Alex Hawkins: “Well, that’s our story and we’re sticking to it.”
Just how stupid do they think the “rubes” are?
Didn’t the Columbia School of Journalism have Victor Navasky operating as their “shadow editor” while he was also working at The Nation for two years before they revealed the tie.
If there’s one thing America’s J-school grads did learn it’s how to keep a secret. From themselves as well it seems.
And, in yet another example of the growing irrelevance of the MSM, the message of the scientific misconduct and fraud is getting out among the population. Citizens may not understand the details of principal component analysis (I certainly don’t), but we all do understand it when hearing “the dog ate my homework” excuses for not having the data, having manipulated the data or data collection, or writing hacked up computer programs to generate the graphs needed (I could do that for a lot less than the millions spent on AGW research, btw).
Like being in the tank for Obama and phony health care reform, advocating the acceptance of a deeply flawed theory on political grounds (Lysenkoism, anyone??) inevitably ends up discrediting the proponents. Facts are, as the saying goes, stubborn things. Sooner or later the lies about AGW would have to be expanded to more and more areas of study that are not as politicized and/or are much more amenable to experimental proof/disproof. At which point the whole house of cards falls down.
Its not even the lack of scientists and math majors: its the lack of reporters. People with a proclivity to ask for and insist on facts not platitudes. Documents not press releases. Poeple who would have regarded the Russian hacking of the UK computers as a major scoop akin to Watergate–where as here it was not reported at all.
Its so sad: US newspapers ponder their irrelevance searching for explanations everywhere but in the demands of their customers. The Papers curse the net but ignoring why people go there. Pontificating to people who want news not harrangues.
The poor LA Times cannot even get a grip on the news. Climategate? What’s that? Its own city’s pension mess? Raise taxes! California’s pension mess? Raise Taxes!! They’re clueless. They report from press releases and sneer at bloggers that actually take time to deliver facts and reasoned opinon.
Thank god for the British newspapers. At least they know what a story is.
Not only is the American Left-wing media ignoring the ClimateGate scandal, they’re still actively engaged in man-made global warming propaganda.
This weekend, PBS ran the Nova production of ‘Extreme Ice’, a ‘scientific’ expose preaching about carbon emissions and its dramatic effect on Arctic ice melts. The indoctrination continues unabated.
Aurictech:
Your analogy is laughable. Intelligence is at best very informed speculation. It is more art then science. Global warming deals with measurable physical concepts that you can collect data and test a hypothesis. It terns out that global warming concepts were tested using manipulated or cherry-picked data designed to support politicized views. Global warming science is Lysenko science.
Ultimately, the only way to validate intelligence data is to go in and verify it yourself. It should be noted that since 1949 our intelligence community has consistently underestimated adversary nations’ WMD capabilities Iraq was the one exception. In 2007 the the National Intelligence Council produced an NIE claiming that Iran didn’t have an ongoing nuclear weapons program. The IEAE and Iran itself has demonstrated that the IC has returned to form.
The lack of lefty media coverage of Climategate in all its phases is totally predictable. Global warming/climate change has been embraced by the left because it helps them push an agenda of environmentalism and government control that would never sell otherwise. Our “media elites” would rather go broke than hurt a liberal cause. It is more surprising that the Brits went with this story than that the Americans didn’t.
Glenn Beck and his excellent staff have covered Climategate since it started on Fox News and radio. Blogs like http://wattsupwiththat.com/ and http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/ have also been on the story all along.
Why the silence? Americans are saying it, like Professor Lindzen, but he isn’t viewed as credible by the chattering classes. Therefore, because the chattering class, well, namely the deformed souls, reprobates, scoundrels, scalawags
and other ilk who cannot resist playing God; because they do not want to see where they might be wrong – the words of climategate are verboten.
It is similar to the piece added a couple of days ago of the 6 minute feature about Canada voiced over by Tom Brokaw,
and aired on NBC. It is getting attention, yet I can’t dismiss that if it was a Canadian voicing it, and it was done
by a Canadian crew, the amount of attention it would receive would be less than the NBC production.
One reason might be the reliace of American newspapers, even major ones, on getting science related articles from the Associated Press. But the Associated Press is in the AGW camp.
Not only has the major American media ignored the climategate scandal, one, The Associates Press, put forth a “study” which basically said that it did not ind anything terrible wrong This AP article by the way, was presented by one who was mentioned in the emails, and who comes across as a sycophant.
I recommend reading Science In Public to develop an understanding of the differences between the US and the UK when it comes to the reporting of politicized science. Short version: the BSE scandal greatly increased the willingness of British media to, for better or worse, cast doubt on scientific authorities.
Well, I think it’s probably because there is no Woodward and Bernstein, the President is black and a democrat, and the high point of journalism–really glorified gossip–is Andrew Sullivan. Oh, and there is no senator Sam Irvin asking such relevant questions as “When did you know the climate wasn’t warming, and where’d you hide the data?”
It’s amazing just how poor the quality of much modern journalism is. Even on its own terms, it falls flat. Consider a stock fluff phrase such as “the general consensus among mainstream scientists.” The obvious problem is that the phrase is meaningless. Even assuming that such a thing as a “general consensus” actually exists in any aspect of climate science, and furthermore that a “general consensus” is of any scientific value, what the hell is a “mainstream scientist”? Well, obviously, a “mainstream scientist” is one who supports the “general consensus.” A most convenient display of circular reasoning.
There are very important points in your wonderful essay here, Charlie. Some of them are so important, that they should not be missed or overlooked.
I have witnessed quite a bit of hand wringing and gnashing of teeth from folks who suggest that it is up to those who are raising questions…to not only come up with all the answers by themselves, but to also put together iron clad proof of wrongdoing…AND intent.
This is preposterous.
The American entrenched media are co-conspirators in burying a story of overwhelming significance to a public they are mandated to serve. They ahve abandoned their posts. Instead, they continually distort stories to fit a political screed, a narrative which has been pre-ordained as the “correct” side, regardless of truth or falsity of the underlying story. In my neighborhood growing up, we used to call that…lying.
Lying comes in a variety of flavors. Intentional distortion, intent with knowledge to mislead, total fabrication, false attribution, and FAILURE to correct an intentionally planted misperception.
It is this latter element that I believe was one of the largest contributions by the “Science Club Blackball Committee”. This inner circle of jerks only allowed “certain” reporters to be fed information. Only allowed “certain” persons to “peer review” their work. Only allowed “certain” publications to access “selected” bits of information.
When politicians and others were making wild and unsustainable remarks about the effects of “Global Warming”…these SCBC members sat on their hands and allowed the public to be intentionally misled and conducted not one smidgen of effort to stem the tide of irrational and exaggerated claims.
They participated in, at minimum, silent passive acquiescence when the media and politicians took their studies and made them into a “cause”, necessitating the expenditure of trillions of dollars, possibly, based upon selling the public a pig in a poke.
One does not need “proof” of intent more than the silence provides in and of itself.
The conspiracy of silence that now condemns the entrenched media, needs no more “proof” of intent either. Anyone with a brain stem and active firing synapses can make the deductive reasoning necessary. Sometimes it’s not what you say that counts, it’s what you don’t say.
And the American media failing to report this is a surprise?
Are people still naive enough to believe the American MSM is impartial?
They are an integrate part of the progressive movement! They WILL NOT report on this. At most, we can hope the foreign press keeps on this to find some truth in the matter.
We just have to hang on until next January, the progressives will lose enough seats in both the Senate and House that they cannot pass any form of cap and trade.
The Messiah may try to use an Executive Order, but we will see about that…
I personally am delighted the MSM is failing to cover Climategate. The greater their folly, the swifter their demise and, more importantly, the more time people put into finding trustworthy alternative sources.
But it’s important, people, to be in tune with the utter fraud that is GW/AGW and to be able to put the message convincingly out there when you can. The more we highlight their failure, the sooner they fail.
This scientific report (not quite a year old) is the death knell for GW (NOTE: pdf): http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0707/0707.1161v4.pdf
Here’s a nice fact-based current summary of the scientific shortfalls of GW: http://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/FOS%20Essay/Climate_Change_Science.html
Your typical MSM journalist specializing in “environmental” reporting is royally screwed. They have devoted years of their lives to something of dubious value. To be blunt: many of them will soon lose their job! They will have to find some other way of earning a living. How would you like to be someone minimally in their mid thirties—and essentially forced to start all over? Their recent behavior is evidence of pure self-preservation. They are on the Titanic and forced to go down with the ship. It ain’t any fun.
In fairness, the Washington Post has been covering Climategate and the rest of it pretty thoroughly since the very first week of the CRU e-mails. Fox News Channel is another mainstream media outlet that has done a comprehensive job.
But the rest of them — the NYT especially — deserve the excorciating. They have really dropped the ball.
Anyone note that more and more AGW proponents are using the “act on the side of caution” argument. Two years ago, it was certain. Now, it’s only a maybe, but we still need to act in case that “maybe” becomes a reality.
Clear evidence “Climategate” isn’t being ignored, it’s being willfully suppressed.
Columbia Journalism leads the way in covering up the Climate Hoax. Is there a Pulitzer Prize for Obfuscatory Journalism (opposite of Investigative Journalistm)?
What could be a more appropriate symbol for journalism than Joseph Pulitzer, the Father of Yellow Journalism?
It just shows that American Liberals are worse than Liberals in other parts of the world. The former are hybrids, and we all know that hybrids are bad for the ecosystem. But don’t get lost in the analogy, because their challenge to our system is not about an evolution of sorts, but a willfulness to be untruthful. They must be defeated.
“and there is no senator Sam Irvin asking such relevant questions as “When did you know the climate wasn’t warming, and where’d you hide the data?””
Wait ’till next year!
The MSM has what’s left of their credibility tied up in two projects. The deification of Obama and the pimping of the church of algore.
Great article. The other day I wrote about a gratuitous NPR report on a 2 year old story that simply provided a vehicle to denounce “…this lobby who are trying to discredit the science of climate change, who are trying to defame the scientists..”
http://foreignobjectdamage.blogspot.com/2010/02/green-police-counterattack-story-on-npr.html
Well, could it be because “Climategate” is a rubbish story, mostly if not exclusively appealing to a fact-fuzzy, anti-science, right wing audience? And if you look at the overall climate news coverage by, say, the UK newspapers and factor in their political leanings, you don’t really see much difference between them and our papers (the increasingly right wing Wall St. Journal, for one, has given plenty of “coverage” to the nonstory).
Welcome to Sheepel world, where science doesn’t have to proven but the evidence of an “intelligent designer” is far game to everyone from comedians to political hangeroners.
This is the world we’ve created. We threw out God decades ago. We’ve replaced him with the Obamas, the Tiger Woods, the Jay-Zs, the Oprahas and the Al Frankens. It’s worked great, our children are having children or dying from STD’s, people are killing each other by odd and deviant means, and our leaders treat us as either rubes or errant children. Our economy lies in ruins along with the torn and tattered moral fabric of our once great country.
Still we dither and whine about whether or not Tiger Woods should have to apologize to the world or whether or not we insignificant mortals can control the massive complexity that is weather. Eventually someone like the head of Iran will start the nuclear holocaust and the pointless point will all be completely moot. There will be no Earth, there will be no greenhouse gasses, no global warming, no economy, nothing but a whole lot of nothing……..and yes, the glass is half empty, now that you’ve asked. It always is.
I for one am sort of glad that the MSM is not covering this story. It helps me emphasize the dishonesty and the progressive agenda our media has to my family and friends. I’ve been emailing these Climategate stories to them, including this one, since the story broke. And I know that they have been forwarding the stories on to their friends. When the Democrats try to ram Cap & Trade through Congress, and American realize that their energy bills are going to go through the roof, and more jobs are going to be lost. Americans will blame the MSM media along with Democrats with further destroying our economy.
It’s not covered because it’s a non-story — except for PJM.
One of the best things about living in London is the quality and variety of politically incorrect magazines and newspapers. New Yorkers are so backward and intolerant, of others, and aren’t as open to intellectual diversity.
I think this issue should be pushed hard by Republican candidates this year. They should push for congressional investigations when they take over next year.
The pathetic American lame-stream media continues to render itself more irrelevant every day. The pervasive moral and intellectual bankruptcy of the “progressive” movement and its slobbering cheerleaders in the fourth estate will eventually put the former out of political power for decades to come and the latter into the unemployment line.
It’s both laughable and sad to see such a large group of self-described “superior intellectuals” so hell bent on the utter self-destruction of their livelihoods.
Good riddance!
What good is a free press if the press can’t or won’t remember what its duty to the public is? Today, because they are all ideologues instead of journalists, the American press is a disgrace to journalism.
Excellent article – thank you.
World’s biggest coal company brings U.S. government to court in climate fraud
http://www.climategate.com/worlds-biggest-coal-company-brings-us-government-to-court-in-climate-fraud
Great news!!!
When I lived in China, I used to give my friends banned publications about the Great Leap Backward and the Tiananmen Square Massacre. They were embarrassed that they had to get the truth from a foreigner. At the time I couldn’t imagine ever being placed in such a position and feeling that way. But now I do.
if it walks like a duck …quacks like a duck …looks like a duck then it probably is a duck.
there is no need to convolute the science. yet that is what they do.
the USA media are still behind “the earth is warming and we will all die unless will give total control to them.”
Charlie you are doing great work keeping a spot light on this. any critical thinker knows that there has been and continues to be criminal fraud in the scientific community that is pushing the man made warming belief. …if you did this you would be in jail right now.
it is a duck after all.
BC, your answer is: NO, you ignorant sl#t.
I suppose a speculative conclusion might be that the U.S. papers have embraced a political agenda, and are unwilling to abandon it. I’ve heard that “education” at journalism schools has degenerated into indoctrination emulating the earlier decline of the schools of social work for the same reason. The goals of the graduates require that they subordinate all other matters to it and convolute “the news” to the ideological agenda.
There is no early prospect for emergence from this situation since the powers that be, who do the hiring at the media fronts, share this perspective and hire others who will perpetuate it.
Of course, there is another possibility, one of which does not necessarily exclude the other, and that is that the people entering journalism schools and securing jobs in the media, generally lack the intelligence to do the job, are unfamiliar with science, and would flounder if they attempted to address the material.
Those who gravitate to journalism schools are in a limbo now with employment opportunities at the old media contracting, and entrepreneurial types and creative thinkers taking control of the new media, fellows such as Breitbart and others.
Lesbian Conservative @23; I recorded that program, prety sure of what I would find. Should I bother wastin’ my time? I’m still willing to look at new information, but I have a feeling it’s not, really, ‘gonna be new.
bc, give it up. Are you seriously telling us that the press in Europe is anything but socialist in it’s world view?
“…the increasingly right wing Wall St. Journal…”? They’ve always been considered conservative. However, having read it 6 days a week for the last year and a half, it is not leaning right but left. Most decidedly on this issue. The OP-ED page is still written by intelligent folks (except for Thomas Frank), but the reporting has been just as dilligently obfuscating the CRU story as the next bunch of bozos
And dipsh*t joseph @45, criminal activity, commited by anyone on the public’s dime, is always a story. Unless it’s a “game changer”. A “game changer”! Do you recognize that phrase? Do you seriously think there’s no bias or an attempt to push an agenda by the media?
I don’t think you idioits understand that what your ilk did in Europe won’t work here. The European citizenry is disarmed, we’re not! We’re going to stop you one way or the other.
@ 42. BC:
It’s not rubbish. But you of all people will never understand that as you live a life where you need it to be true so badly you will ignore facts and even flat out lie to protect your self. The anti-science people are the ones who destroyed data, manipulated data and refuse to show their data so it can be falsified or proven as per the machinations of the scientific process.
As for the media not covering it one large segment has to much to gain by pushing AGW.. That would be GE. GE stands to make billions with carbon trading. To report the facts on the AGW fraud would be counter productive to the dishonest plot of GE.
Todays media is a disgrace thank god for the internet and free speech (enjoy it while it lasts)
For you younger folks just imagine life in the pre internet age but the media was alot better back then ( they had standards and the desire to report the news) but iam sure lot of info was withheld ( for our own good of course)
Chaco, you’ve done a superb job providing this vital service from the break. Keep up the good work, Bro.
The Biggest scientific scandal scientist have been trying to force us into believing is “Evolution” The intelegent design scientists have disproven evolution but you do not hear anything about it because just as the global warming evidence has been tainted so has evolution. Read Stephen C Myers book “The Signature of the Cell” and find out what the study of DNA has proven. Darwin’s evolution is so 19th century it is time we become informed ourselves because the scientists are not being truthful with us.
Charles – The US “MSM” is engaged in meta-narrative. They did it with the Duke lacrosse players in Durham, they did it with the Bush AWOL letter, they do it with Israel, and they do it with whatever fits their leftist agenda. We await the great extinction that (we hope) is bound to come.
So the American news media refuses to cover a news story that Obama doesn’t want them to cover. I’d call that
business as usual.
And have a story that Obama will want the media to cover even less.
If Obama jams through ObamaCare using the
process of reconciliation, America marches.
We occupy the city of Washington. We close it down. We don’t leave
until either Obama is led out of the White House in handcuffs or until he’s voted out, whichever comes first.
The battle is about to be joined.
I think BC’s comments are illuminating, and indicative of the left-wing bias found in the MSM. According to the “narrative” conservatives are always wrong because they are bad people (racist, bigot, homophobes). Therefore, anything we support is wrong-headed, ill-informed or stupid; anything we oppose we do so out of malice. Such logic soon becomes circular and self-reinforcing in the mind of a liberal.
Of course, the search for truth is blind to ideology especially where science is concerned. If the search is ideologically biased, the product is no longer science. Liberals cannot square the equation that claims science and religion are compatible. To maintain religious faith in the liberal mind is to be inherently unscientific. Again, the logic quickly becomes circular.
Well, the MSM is about to suffer a dose of truth akin to castor oil. Possession of a microphone and a TV studio doesn’t make someone an enlightened intellectual. Such people are actors who nightly read a prepared script. Not unlike a certain president. I don’t think the average talking head is even aware that he or she is just a paid shill. Media conspiracy? Never ascribe to malice what is easier explained by shear stupidity.
The combined common sense of the American people is rendering a verdict on the current administration. You would think that collectivists would appreciate this: collective knowledge, collective wisdom, collective will, and all that. Ask a kulak (if you can find one) what collectivism really means in the hands of political elites. The height of arrogance is to believe that any individual, party or cabal can rule 320 million citizens without the consent of the governed. Not in America.
I’m an optimist. The republic is doing fine. Course corrections are always painful. The American body politic is finally fully engaged in the process. That’s healthy. Our Founding Fathers will be proved right yet again.
It’s only the degredation of the entire academic enterprise that allows climatology to be called ‘science’ at all.
At MIT some years ago, the administration broke down and agreed to offer a major in biology. The faculty revolted because they thought the standards were being trashed so that lightweights could pass through.
Now we have ‘climatologists.’
What’s next? Astrologers?
MarStar:
Your heart may be in the right place, but your anti-evolution stance only weakens the case for malfeasance in climate science. There may be a small minority of individuals who agree with you, but you open the door to a large number of people who will equate criticisers of climate science with birthers, truthers, holocaust deniers, and other fringe viewpoints. Better to stick to the subject at hand, and avoid bringing in extraneous issues.
I’m sure there’s a more approriate place to express your anti-evolution views.
Do any of you remember Nicolae Ceausescu and his fate? He ransacked the Romanian economy; oppressed and starved the population. I believe he was a socialist.
If these climate scientists really believe in evolution, why do they want to stop it?
60. MarStar:
The Biggest scientific scandal scientist have been trying to force us into believing is “Evolution” The intelegent design scientists have disproven evolution but you do not hear anything about it because just as the global warming evidence has been tainted so has evolution. Read Stephen C Myers book “The Signature of the Cell” and find out what the study of DNA has proven. Darwin’s evolution is so 19th century it is time we become informed ourselves because the scientists are not being truthful with us.
——————————————————————
Intelligent design doesn’t have scientists they have theologists. They did not disprove evolution at all. That is why you don’t hear about it. It’s simply not true. Real scientists have proven evolution in a lab. ID has proven nothing. No one is forcing you to believe in the theory of evolution. If you want to remain ignorant you can.
The cold winter in the USA does not prove or disprove “Global Warming” so one might give the MSM (Main Stream Media) a pass for failing to make a connection.
However, the 2005 peak in hurricane intensity did not prove anything about “Global Warming” either but that did not stop the MSM from trumpeting that it did.
Thank God for the Internet! Otherwise we would all be brainwashed drones with no alternative to Big Brother’s propaganda.
BC – Dude its like you just open your mouth (I mean like type something) and I can see that these right wing nuts are on the run. Well anyway I just wanted you to know that I think you are TOTALLY AWESOME. So keep up the good work. And your thoughts are like “mostly if not exclusively” appealing to me. I read your posts all the time and really get a kick out of these stupid right wingers who respond to you – its no use man, you are like way smarter than they will ever be. Like I totally agree, too, that our left leaning papers are totally right…er…I mean left …er right …or…whatever, to ignore these “climategate non-stories” because if they didn’t I wouldn’t read them either and that would really hurt their bottom line. Thanks for staying off point and getting everyone else off point too.
Why has the US MSM failed to cover the issues? Many posters have good reasons — lack of science journalists, leftist agendas and so on.
There is a much simpler explanation. Fox and the WSJ broke/covered it first and is still riding the story (within the limit of column inches). If the MSM were to report it now, they would have to admit their rivals got their first. They hope it blows over before they have to admit they got scooped and duped.
The US media keeps stressing consensus. What about the facts? At one time there was a consensus that the world was flat. So if we get enough consensus that the world is flat will that make it true?
Thank God for Algore…
He invented Global Warming!
If he had not, our temperatures would have fallen below zero in Jacksonville, FL this winter!
MY HERO!
Supreme Allied Commander, you make the mistake of using outdated, pre-postmodern thinking.
old-fashioned standard reasoning:
If it quacked like a duck, and walked like a duck, it was hatched from certified duck eggs and, when roasted with a nice plum sauce, tasted like duck, then it was a duck.
modern AGW, post-postmodern reasoning:
If it look like a duck, walk like a duck, but I say it’s a golden goose, then it’s a golden goose, and to say otherwise makes you a duckist denier in the pay of the evil poultry industry.
Magritte’s reasoning:
If it look like a duck and walk like a duck, it’s a pipe.
If a stethoscope were able to detect scientific truth,
the global warming gang wouldn’t have a pulse.
What are you all so upset about? Would it really hurt to use less energy, recycle, be less wasteful? We’re either denied knowledge or lied to by politicians (left & right wing) every day, but this misinterpretation of data feels more like a bank error in our favor. Why not change our wasteful behaviors? Climate change or no climate change, we are an over-populated world with limited natural resources. We’re polluting our air, water & food. Eventually, we’ll run out of space–especially since we don’t know what to do with our garbage. We’re already spending a fortune trying to figure out how to terraform Mars rather than change our habits here on Earth. The issue is not “Save The Planet”, it’s “Save The Humans”.
What we need is some gutzy person (like another James O’Keefe) to do a documentary on the legacy media. It’s not necessarily the journalists that decide what stories get covered. The editors and the media owners are the primary decision makers. Film them refusing to cover a story for political reasons or manipulating the news to fit their progressive agenda. Then we can sit back and watch the meltdown that follows when the video goes viral on YouTube.
How the “Times” has changed – the pun is intended
I think you might get a good laugh at this.
I ran across the following passage in an excellent biography of J. P. Morgan, titled Morgan, written by Jean Strouse, and published in 1999 by Random House. The reference is from page 356.
It concerns the purchase of The New York Times from New York Democrats in 1896 by Adolph Simon Ochs, who Strouse described as a successful Southern Democrat and then owner of the Chattanooga Times.
From Wikipedia, “Ochs’ great-grandson Arthur Ochs Sulzberger, Jr. has been publisher of The New York Times since 1992.”
The Morgan passage reads …
“In his first issue as publisher of the Times on August 19, 1896, Ochs announced that he would publish the news “impartially, without fear or favor, regardless of party, sect, or interests involved,” and would not depart from the policies that distinguished the Times as a “non-partisan newspaper – unless it be, if possible, to intensify its devotion to the cause of sound money and tariff reform, opposition to wastefulness and peculation in administering public affairs, and in its advocacy of the lowest tax consistent with good government, and no more government than is absolutely necessary.”
Are you rolling in the aisles yet?
RECYCLE?
Charlie Martin:
You ask why the London press writes exposés about things that they have no control over. Gee that sounds precisely like the U.S. press. The Brits and the rest of the eurotrash are already up to their eyebrows in socialism, Islamo-facism, and debt. So they get some schadenfreude from writing about the morass of marxism that we are going through. They’re already there, and misery loves company. It’s no that they are being objective about assessing the situation.
As for our own so-called press corpse, they are only fellow-travelers and are playing their part in undermining the principles that the U.S. is founded upon. They don’t report negatives about the ongoing march to totalitarianism, i.e., AGw fraud, Keynesian economic idiocy, or milquetoast ROEs in Afghanistan that kill our own troops to save a few stone-age citizens in the opium capital of the world.
What were you really expecting Charlie, my man?
@#17. Nikonman – Are you aware that the Mauna Loa data on CO2 is derived by REMOVING the water vapor BEFORE any measurements are made? This comes directly from the NOAA website on Mauna Loa data gathering.
With the major role water vapor plays in the atmosphere, is this another case of sloppy science or another method of “cooking the books”?
If someone knows the reason for NOAA’s procedure please explain….I saw no mention that the amount of water vapor taken out was recorded or taken into account in determining final results/figures/data.
Bubbas like me are mentally unable to understand. The MSM does not want us cerebally inferior masses to know anything that may contradict what information they deem appropriate for us. MSM, as it exists today, will fail because average bubbas like me can read, think, and vote. We will vote with our dollars too. Find out who and what these liberal MSM are tied too. GE owns NBC. If the product has a GE on it, dont buy it. If the paper is liberal, dont buy it. Dont turn on the station. Dont support the jibberish with your own money. Do buy the stuff of folks who report the news and have investigative journalism, into such topic as climategate and acorn. people who want to know where al gore is. News sources who dont demonize bubbas like me as radical, racist, homophobic tards. bubba is fed up and is not accepting the talking down to anymore.
#76: Alas, you have been brainwashed by the Gaianist cultists.
To pick one item out of your screed: we do not know how to genuinely recycle much of anything. Usually, a minute portion of the waste stream is intercepted at high cost and added to inferior products that Gaianists can feel good about buying. If we did have a good grasp on recycling things…why, we wouldn’t be permitted to, since that would not reduce us to the Hobbesian lifestyle desired for us by the Gaianists!
This plays a large role in the global warming scam. One of the few sound ways to recycle a sheet of paper is to burn it — recycling it into carbon dioxide and water — and letting a tree reconstitute it. Since this works so well, the Gaianists cannot allow it to be done, lest we actually have paper.
akatsukami,
if you had even a smattering of scientific education, you would not besmirch Gaianists, for it is merely those of us who recognize the true future blueprint for the planet; why don’t you go back to school? Karl marx invented the term ‘dialectical materialism’, which would seem to apply to you; although he is so far above your pucilanimous pulchritudes that it makes me laugh?
Once the MSM reports that their lefty benefactors in the Government and science communities are (gasp!) human and make errors and mistakes, then the whole takeover by the Marxist comes into question. The doubts will began to creep into the vast majority of the electorate, that still, has not been paying much attention. And if, God willing, that happens, maybe the People will realize how insightful and brilliant the Founders were, when creating the Constitution and this nation can become free, and under the rule of law once again.
Americans need to read about Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi propogandist. I do not who told our MSM to lie and repeat the lie, but for some reason they are all on the same page.
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State” Joseph Geobbels.
Where’s Charles Johnson on this? LOL
Anyone else been banned by LGF?
Mr. Martin,
Excellent article. Thank you.BC – So it’s become a ‘non story’. Ahh, such is the response from someone dog paddling to keep afloat.
It’s such ‘non story’ discussion though you post infinite-like sites.. though they ALL have the same charts, graphs. From East Anglia, NOAA, NASA to boot! hahahaha
You’re a 1 trick pony, bub. Unfortunately for you, were short of glue..
Oh, due to my accountant and WSJ’s market gurus, I’ll be retiring ~ mid 50′s. Whereas you’ll still badmouth others for YOUR shortcomings and not handing the reins, reasoning over to statist bureaucrats ‘who know what’s best for us’.
Natural Woman – When a ‘scientific’ body with overreaching political motivations attempts to dupe the world in a sense with suspect findings, it begs for concern.
Dear Sir/Ma’am:
I read today 2/18/2010, that the EPA is still laboring under the falsehood that “Climate Change” and “Global Warming” are man made and as such, the emissions that economic activity creates can be regulated by this agency. It is my duty to inform you to do your duty as an inspector general, and end this fraudulent use of taxpayer resources in pursuit of this lie. I remind you that fraud whether conducted by a federal agency or an individual is a crime.
Good luck in ending this fraud, please find a link below for you to begin gathering evidence against those in the EPA who are perpetuating this fraud on the American people and the taxpayer. Be advised their will be a change in leadership in the House and likely the Senate in 9 months – if I were in your shoes I wouldn’t waste anytime. They are going to want to know, as an inspector general, what you new, when you knew it, and why you did nothing to stop this fraud.
http://www.climatedepot.com/
Again good luck!
Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
CC: Rep. John Behnoer, Rep. Mike Pence, Sen. Mitch McConnel, Sen. Jim Demint
Confirmation email sent to Office of Inspector General of the EPA:
“Thank you!
From what I see, Japan is going along with the US. It’s still global warming here, and if you can stick “eco-” in front, it helps.
#42 Hey, BC’s here!
BC, how about taking another shot at answering some questions?
1. True science is falsifiable. What specific data would prove that AGW is false? Please note that “More cooling than we had since 1999″ is not a scientific answer.
2. If humans can take action and stop global warming, how will we know when we are done? Again, please note that “We are never really done because you can never have too much clear air” is also not a scientific answer.
3. If humans can cause global warming, then we can also cause global cooling. What actions would you propose if climate science shows that we are heading into a period of global cooling?
Simple issue! We are dealing with captive media who are “joined” with Chacago thugs at every level. They have millions in carbon credits they have to sell quickly before they become worthless here in the US. Ole Pinch has probably spent the last nickel at the NYT on stock in Gore’s company and can’t afford to print anything that will make the stock fall faster. He may get a better price in July when it’s warmer.
I read in Richard Pipes “The Russian Revolution” that when
the Bolsheviks wanted to loot the church – they set up a
front organization called “The New Church” to argue that
the church ought to sell all its gold to aid the victims
of the famine, which the Bolsheviks caused !! Of course
the Bolsheviks controlled the Media.
It sounds like the same kind of tactics are in play today.
It’s all Bush’s fault.
Consensus. That word is like the political word, ‘comprehensive.’ We should all really think about it. Every time we are to be scammed, one of those words is used.
Consensus = those of us on the inside all agree that if we can make this work, we can cause laws to be created that force others to pay us for our theories, & we can make a fortune.
Comprehensive = those of us on the inside all agree that if we can make this work, we can create rules of law for us to tell others what to do & force others to pay us, under penalty of law, & we can make a fortune.
Scam = convincing or coercing others to do or believe as you wish, so you can make a fortune from them.
The problem w/ the Climate Change issue is, it is based on ‘theory’ and ‘probability’, that ‘could’ come true, or, ‘could not’.
The problem w/ the Climate Change agenda is, it is based on the concept that if you can convince enough people to believe you, even if what you propose is pure bunk, you can also convince people to pay you AND call you a hero!
Save the planet.. dump junk science not based on reality or reasonable facts. Right now, we have a ‘garbage in, garbage out’ system.
#76 NW:Would it really hurt to use less energy, recycle, be less wasteful?
You’re asking exactly the right question: would it really hurt? As it stands right now, the cap and trade notion alone looks set to transfer about $750 per person per year from people in the US — including poor people, the effect is a regressive tax — to rich people in India and China, with a few buck skimmed for Al Gore and Goldman Sachs. Does that hurt? And who does it hurt?
The issue isn’t good intentions, it’s bad outcomes.
#89 Joe: Keep watching PJM, we should have something new along those lines soon.
In the name of eco-Fascism 100′s of millions of third world human beings have lost their lives due to “forced” disease (see malaria deaths caused by the banning of DDT in Africa), starvation and malnutrition. “Environmentalism” is anti-human, and propogates murder. For every acre of farmland pulled out of production in the name of the environment, there are hundreds of human beings that will die of starvation. The Obama administration’s EPA has already confiscated millions of acres from farmers, and is planning to confiscate millions more. Cap and Tax will “necessarily” cause energy prices to “skyrocket” killing millions more. Tell me, in any talk of the environmentalists do you ever hear the words “human being” or “human kind”? :
From USGBC:
“Share with the Repower America community your vision, your passion and your hope for the role green building can play in a greener, cleaner energy future. It’s easy and free to add your video or photo along with your green building message to this virtual discussion. Visit today, listen to what other people are saying, make a difference with your voice or company logo, and be heard across America.”
Does this say anything about providing a better future for humankind?
76. Natural Moron,
…except that the AGW crowd isn’t focused on the more valid, non-mythical environmental issues like pollution, etc. Try this little experiment at home: over the coming weeks, attend two public events: 1) some liberal/progressive protest, speech, march, etc. 2) attend a tea-party type of gathering (remember to shower for this one). When each event is over, look at the immediate 500 square feet or so around your birks – which parcel is more littered? I guarantee you the lib event will be ten-fold more polluted than the tea party. Now, this will blow yet another of your misshapen world views to hell, but you can find your inner cognitive dissonance by the time you get your Prius home.
Instead of commenting write a letter to the Inspector General of the EPA demanding action to end this fraud on the American Taxpayer – get ‘er done!!!
OK…OK…
All I want to know is….
What do we do with this proposed multi-billion dollar wind mill industry now that coal is cool again.
What do we do with the wind mills? We melt them down and use the steel to build 5th generation air cooled 100 megawatt nuclear reactors. We save one and we drop it on Al Gores house from a B-52.
Due to its colonial history, the British empire does a great job of schooling in all forms on physical geography, which includes climatology. Here, geography is not emphasized, and on the text book level is more political than scientific. My grandchildren are committed to “global warming” and hear no discouraging words from Park Hill School of International Studies in Denver, our neighborhood public school.
Weird times.
Joe Doakes, come on buddy. A B-52?
C-17′s carry a much wider, heavier payload than the old girl..
Oh, and C-17′s are more ‘environmentally friendly’.
Apologize for my error in the selection of equipment. I’m partial to B-24′s:)
Off topic, check out those new props on the C-17′s. Went to an air show last summer, quietest prop driven plane I’ve ever heard. This summer, if you can, get to an air show and you will be treated to the most amazing display of human achievement in the air. Think of what The United States has done in just 100 years in aviation. The next hundred need to be as astounding – get these pinkos back into their magazines and there social clubs and out of power before we are destined to fly a propeller driven cardboard box made out of recycled fat.
I found Al Gore, he’s at the IBM Pulse Conference in Las Vegas. I must say his keynote speech was totally unrepentant. Not that I should have expected any different. He used the same tired description of how global warming was occurring, explained that the earth is still warming, and then told us he wasn’t going to try to convince us. He then proceeded to talk in a more or less intelligent way about smart technologies helping to eliminate waste. He also had a little humorous story which alluded to how he had been cheated out of the presidency. It was interesting, but I couldn’t bring myself to applaud.
Dan W. – If was in that audience I would have yelled out two words, at the top of my lungs – “BULL SHIT!”
Thomas Sowell in his recent “Intellectuals and Society” discusses the process of “filtering” wherein intellectuals willfully ignore or prevent the dissemination of information that goes against their vision. This goes beyond simply not understanding the science involved.
Moreover, as we see with presidential campaign coverage, American journalism is far more focused on process than substance. So they’ll look at the “who’s up who’s down” of the moment, the deal so and so is making with someone else, who’s facing what accusation, etc. but nothing about the substance, truth or policy at issue. We see that too in their coverage of the climate debate.
“What do we do with the wind mills? ”
OK, now we are onto something important.
Here is my idea, assuming there are several in a cluster: Remove a section of the support so that the bottom swing of the blades is only 8-12 inches above the ground. Get some orange traffic cones and a few Priuses and we could have a combination road rally/miniature golf course.
The United States is the most propagandized nation on the planet. Our free press is failing to make money and they are panicked about who will support them after they collapse. They are hoping that the US government will bail them out with taxpayers money, after the collapse happens, otherwise most of them will be unemployed.
Don’t worry media employees, your government will decide you are too big and important to our lifestyle to fail. Of course, you must continue to toe the democrat line on social economics, government health care, and the religion of environmentalism. You must do this long enough to allow them to pass their agenda. Then, you will get your reward. Hang in there and you will become “Borg”. Oh yea, you will have figure out how to get more of us morons, who have votes to cast, to listen to your trumpets first. Good luck.
Other countries probably have a media who recognize their job to correctly inform. What we have is a mouthpiece of this administration, that takes its marching orders every morning prior to doing anything. BIASED, JOURNALISTIC MALPRACTICE ON DISPLAY, AND THEY WONDER WHY THEY HAVE SO FEW WHO TAKE THEM SERIOUSLY.
What do we do with the windmills? Quit wasting money on them for a start! Dismantle the useless traps.
America only has one news network that will tell us the truth, Fox News. The other are sleeping at the Whitehouse.
It isn’t about the science folks, it’s about the money. May I introduce the next stock boom and crash and possibly a reason why the lack of coverage in the US:
http://www.unep.org/Documents.Multilingual/Default.asp?DocumentID=608&ArticleID=6446&l=en&t=long
To Paul from Hamburg: Yes I am here, although I’ve been losing track of all these dopey and mostly repetitive anti-science articles I’ve been posting randomly to.
BC, how about taking another shot at answering some questions?
Sure, why not?
1. True science is falsifiable. Well, actually, it wouldn’t be exactly “true” would it?
What specific data would prove that AGW is false? Please note that “More cooling than we had since 1999″ is not a scientific answer.
Well, “specifically” you would have to come up with data that contradicts a 100+ years of research and a mountain of data (like this and this) that quite clearly says that human activity is to blame.
2. If humans can take action and stop global warming, how will we know when we are done?
The effects of global warming have been the most dramatic at the polar regions, especially the arctic — any positive effects will likely start to show there the quickest.
Again, please note that “We are never really done because you can never have too much clear air” is also not a scientific answer.
Wouldn’t dream of it.
3. If humans can cause global warming, then we can also cause global cooling. What actions would you propose if climate science shows that we are heading into a period of global cooling?
Tax buying fuel efficient cars, elect more Republicans, or anything else that would help pollute the air more.
Grumpy; good work. Could you imagine if Dictator Obama tried to ask the American taxpayer to “bail out” the friggen wind mill farms too! I may even riot.
#114 Grumpy: Thanks for that link; I’m back on teh track of dealing with the money today.
One doesn’t know whether to laugh or cry.
Climate scientists now retract the bit about the seas rising.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/21/sea-level-geoscience-retract-siddall
On the one hand, “something” motivated them to suddenly join the backpedaling party.
On the other hand, it seems these folks have a hard time with the concept of clear statements. There was something about not considering the last 2000 years properly, or other. Oh, yeah…that.
And they leave the impression that the errors that caused the need to retract “could go either way”. Hmmm. Things were just fine as they were all going in one direction for the past few years, though…right? So, if the science was in need of an amendment, not a reversal…forgive one for thinking that “retractions” on papers wouldn’t be the vehicle used.
Or, am I wrong here, Charlie?
The reason that “climategate” is a non-story is that there is no substance to it. It is commonplace for scientists to disagree about the details of a theory, and it is also commonplace for journals (of any stripe) to favor papers that agree with their general tenor. There’s no scandal here. What there is, is a few nuts on the hard right, who don’t want to believe in climate change because it would force them to make uncomfortable changes in their behavior, and who have found in some innocuous e-mails material to support their insanity.
This is related to the insanity of the anti-Darwinists. No sane person doubts that Darwin’s theory of evolution by means of natural selection is correct in its essentials, and no sane person questions that pumping tons of carbon into the air is making the planet warmer.
It’s curious, isn’t it CF? I would read that as saying “we looked again at our data” — possibly to avoid being the next IPCC mistake and thereby cover their asse, and certainly following being caught in a couple errors — “and based on re-evaluation none of our conclusions really hold any longer.”
One might useful wonder if the desirability of confirming the IPCC led to missing the mistakes — there’s little more convincing than a calculation that confirms your preconceptions.
The problem is that for years the American MSM has been embracing the ideology of the far left. And as they have become more and more enamoured with that ideology they have left their objectivity behind. This all came to a head in 2008 when they as a whole (with the exception of FOX) embraced the Obama canidacy.
They do everything they can to bury any story that is not favorable to their ideology. If this weren’t so they wouldn’t have sent a army of “fact” checkers to Alaska to dig up dirt on a VP canidate while taking everything the Dem Presidential candiate said at face value. Their active dismissal of Climategate is just the most recent excersise in mass suicide by the entire industry. As more and more people come to see that they have only a passing interest in the Truth their revenues plummet, and will continue to do so unless they discover that their job is to investigate and inform.
TO GLENN:
So Mars lost all of its H20 because of all those Martian’s driving SUV’s? The only insane person here is you Glenn.
BC, did you even read this article? It is about the news media in the United States, not whether AGW is caused by people. I don’t give you your premise on that subject anyway. I say the media is desperate for bailout money. I also say that it should concern us all that the MSM is so weak that it can’t report on anything that might reverse the fortunes of its potential benefactors. What say you?
That would, by the way, be the same Timothy Wirth who was the original negotiator of the Kyoto Protocol.
And also the same Timothy Wirth who, as then Sen. Wirth (D) of Colorado, turned off the air conditioning in the Senate hearing room at the height of summer (1989) for the first global warming hearings. He thought he was really clever, he did.
Bravo. I believe as one comment mentioned, that there are fat cats that aim to profit from this climate hoax. They may even be some of the same ones that profited from the last one that had to do with the Ozone Hole and CFCs. Seems how that ol ozone hole has a mind of its own, and is not going away as predicted. Yet the world has brand new patented coolants it must use in the name of protecting the environment, and the old efficient coolant with no more patent protection is illegal, and immoral, and must never be used again.
Keep up the great commentary.
Pfffffff.
You won’t hear anything significant about this until they haul James Hansen and Al Gore into a court room for sentencing.
Glenn is proof that no matter how many facts that you hurl at them about the historical climate fluctuations being far more extreme than anything that is happening right now and that there is no proof that MAN has anything major impact on the climate, they will not listen.
There can be no discussion, no examination of their “facts” nothing to get in the way of the Jihad to “save the earth from mankind”.
If you give in to one bit of madness, you go down the road to the next and the next more dire prediction requiring disastrous and costly solutions until you get to where they have really been wanting to go with all of this from the beginning: Eugenics and population control on a global scale based upon THEIR criteria about who is worthy to live and breed and who is not.
Read Thomas Malthus. Read Ehrlich’s “Population Bomb”.
We went thru this crap for the first 40 years of the 20th century and it brought us Woodrow Wilson’s prison camps for Sedition, WWII, and Hitler’s Holocaust.
Moonbat Progressives never change with their plans for utopia – the closer THEY get to living in it the more THEY want to keep the rest of us out of it.
As far as changing their minds, you may as well go back and look at how hard the Catholic Church resisted the Renaissance and to where they made Galileo repent from teaching the earth was round.
The planet is warming …REPENT OH MANKIND!!
Polar bears are swimming and people should be freezing in the dark – not watching the Superbowl on a 55″ flat panel, munching food they merrily drove thru a blizzard in their SUV”s to the grocery to buy from the abundance that should not be available (outside of the Elites’ walk-in fridges that is prepared for them by their undocumented servants).
REPENT PEASANTS – FOR YOUUUUUUUUU ARE THE ONES KILLING OUR UTOPIA.
Would it really hurt to use less energy, recycle, be less wasteful?
Wouldn’t hurt at all, and already happening.
Climate change or no climate change, we are an over-populated world with limited natural resources.
Ah yes, the old “overpopulation and limited resources” canard. Yawn.
We’re already spending a fortune trying to figure out how to terraform Mars rather than change our habits here on Earth.
No we’re not.
Climate scientists withdraw journal claims of rising sea levels
Study claimed in 2009 that sea levels would rise by up to 82cm by the end of century – but the report’s author now says true estimate is still unknown
Scientists have been forced to withdraw a study on projected sea level rise due to global warming after finding mistakes that undermined the findings.
The study, published in 2009 in Nature Geoscience, one of the top journals in its field, confirmed the conclusions of the 2007 report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). It used data over the last 22,000 years to predict that sea level would rise by between 7cm and 82cm by the end of the century.
At the time, Mark Siddall, from the Earth Sciences Department at the University of Bristol, said the study “strengthens the confidence with which one may interpret the IPCC results”. The IPCC said that sea level would probably rise by 18cm-59cm by 2100, though stressed this was based on incomplete information about ice sheet melting and that the true rise could be higher.
Many scientists criticised the IPCC approach as too conservative, and several papers since have suggested that sea level could rise more. Martin Vermeer of the Helsinki University of Technology, Finland and Stefan Rahmstorf of the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research in Germany published a study in December that projected a rise of 0.75m to 1.9m by 2100.
Siddall said that he did not know whether the retracted paper’s estimate of sea level rise was an overestimate or an underestimate.
Announcing the formal retraction of the paper from the journal, Siddall said: “It’s one of those things that happens. People make mistakes and mistakes happen in science.” He said there were two separate technical mistakes in the paper, which were pointed out by other scientists after it was published. A formal retraction was required, rather than a correction, because the errors undermined the study’s conclusion.
“Retraction is a regular part of the publication process,” he said. “Science is a complicated game and there are set procedures in place that act as checks and balances.”
Nature Publishing Group, which publishes Nature Geoscience, said this was the first paper retracted from the journal since it was launched in 2007.
The paper – entitled “Constraints on future sea-level rise from past sea-level change” – used fossil coral data and temperature records derived from ice-core measurements to reconstruct how sea level has fluctuated with temperature since the peak of the last ice age, and to project how it would rise with warming over the next few decades.
In a statement the authors of the paper said: “Since publication of our paper we have become aware of two mistakes which impact the detailed estimation of future sea level rise. This means that we can no longer draw firm conclusions regarding 21st century sea level rise from this study without further work.
“One mistake was a miscalculation; the other was not to allow fully for temperature change over the past 2,000 years. Because of these issues we have retracted the paper and will now invest in the further work needed to correct these mistakes.”
Charlie, I need some help here. The retraction comes from a “supporting paper”. This supporting paper did “not allow fully for temperature change over the past 2,000 years”.
And that, because the “conclusion” was impacted, it had to be a retraction rather than a correction. Is this true?
If so, do any of the other “errors” that have transpired require this strict constructionist application?
And which “conclusion” is at risk here? Seas won’t rise at all? Global warming doesn’t cause the seas to rise? It’s all rather murky…in a “muffled in the confessional” sort of way.
These new wannabe greens are just the same old tired reds.
It’s obvious WHY the MSM doesn’t want to report about this… because it makes them look stupid and phony.. it can’t be easy trying to spin such obvious crap.
If you believe more CO2 in the air is bad, then hold your breath for 10 minutes.
The CO2 global warming story is now a triple lie:
1. More CO2 in the air has no practical effect on the earth’s surface radiation heat balance.
2. More CO2 in the air significantly increases the rate of green plant growth.
3. The IPCC have covered up the fact that we are now in an overall cooling cycle.
The recent climategate story clearly shows that all the recent CO2 lies were simply subornedfor by big government activist grants. Start with Dr. James Hansen NASA’s #1 climate liar. He has also been mischarging the US taxpayer his entire career.
Fact 1 above is easily explained to people who comprehend:
The basics of radiation heat transfer – most engineers
The infrared absorption characteristics of CO2 – some scientists
The Solar constant mean value is 1368 W/m². Quantity of solar energy (W/m²) at normal incidence outside the atmosphere (extraterrestrial) at the mean sun-earth distance.
The release of the emails has the socialist frauds that inhabit the MSM, academia and government in such shock they are just starting to come out of the daze. Remember when you were a kid and you found out there was no santa claus. That’s exactly how the socialist frauds feel. There global environmental socialist dream of AGW has taken a long walk off a short peer, and they have not be able to come up with a believable lie yet to get the gravy train scam back on track. To defeat these frauds we must defend the enablers, namely the socialist democrats and boot their non american commie rear ends all the way to cuba in the next elections.
A couple humorous cartoons about Climategate, Michael Mann, and Global Warming at http://drawfortruth.wordpress.com/category/climategate/
#119 Glenn: The reason that “climategate” is a non-story is that there is no substance to it.
No, that’s not it.
First of all, that doesn’t explain the extensive coverage in the UK that isn’t being replicated here. Reading the actual article might have helped a little there. Similarly, it doesn’t explain Phil Jones losing his job, or the opinion of the UK Government that Jones probably violated their law.
Nor does it explain the repeated succession of errors discovered in the IPCC AR4: the Himalayas, the many citations of what turn out not to be peer-reviewed literature, the overt admission by Lal and Britta both that the results of the IPCC process were driven by political considerations, not scientific.
You would be right about the issues with peer review if it were only scientists rejecting papers they didn’t think appropriate. What really happened, though, we repeated violations of the confidentiality of the process, and over collusion. That may not be unknown, but it is unusual and has been considered misconduct in the past.
Charlie,
Keep up the great work bringing the scandal to the masses. BTW, don’t try to reason with Glenn(119) – he is receiving treatment for a serious mental disorder in which he runs into random office buildings dressed only in an adult diaper, flinging his feces everywhere while screaming “you’re all insane, you’re all insane!” His doctors have finally got him to put on some clothes and have medicated his fecal-lobbing behavior away…but they have had no breakthroughs yet on his paranoid cognitive dissonance. Let’s all pray for Glenn.
Its kind of like obama went to columbia u when actually he went to general studies school at columbia, you get in with a check book and get a degree paid for
Open letter to Al Gore.
Dear Sir,
You should be ashamed of yourself for propagating an alarmist theory which has no base in reality whatsoever.
Because of irresponsible people like you, some children don`t want to do their home work or even go to school, because “what is the point, we are all going to die soon from global warming”!
Millions of children allover the world from kindergarden to highschools and universities have been brain washed by your shameless propaganda,to the point that they feel their very lives are putting the planet in danger.
But people have already waken up and see this whole thing for what it is, meaning a total fraud, an international effort of power and money grabbing based on the marxist concept of “wealth redistribution”.
On April 28 1975 Time magazine had on its front cover the title GLOBAL COOLING!!, with an article, signed by climate scientists, concluding that the Earth is cooling to the point it will all be covered in ice and all living creatures will die of freezing.
After a few years, when it obviously turned out that such a theory was nonsense, the so called climate scientists, in their quest for government grants, have invented a new fantasy, that of global warming……the world is warming due to us, human beings and we are all going to die unless we give up all of our liberties to one big world government which is going to regulate every single aspect of our lives, how many times to flush our toilets, what kind of cars to drive, where, for what reason and how far, how many children to have , what kind of food to eat, etc.
In 1992 Al Gore said that “the time for a debate is over, the science is settled”…..
This obviously is a lie for the time for a debate is never over and the science is far from being settled.
Science my dear sir, does not work as a democracy , meaning that in science, the majority does not rule as it does in a democracy.
If 1000 scientists have a debate and 999 of them agree on the subject, but only one of them disagree, it may very well turn out , as it has so many times in history, that the lone scientist is the only one that is right.
I could give you many examples, such as that of Charles Darwin.
When he first presented his theory of the evolution of species, all the scientists laughed at him and ridiculed him…in the end he was right and they were wrong.
When Galileo said the Earth is spinning, the rest of the scientists accused him of heresy…but it turned out he was right and they were all wrong.
After 15 years of advancing a false theory based on fraudulent data, the “scientists” noticed that the planet is not warming, but is actually cooling, so they changed the name of their theory yet again from global warming to “Climate Change”, just in case, to have all possibilities covered.
Soon, my dear sir the whole thing will be unequivocally exposed for a premeditated fraud.
People like yourself will then be held responsible for the enormous psychological, social and financial damage that your actions have caused.
Just like when a doctor who gives out the wrong diagnosis and causes harm to the patient as a result, just like in such a case the doctor has the license suspended and has to pay damages or even go to prison, people like you will soon face the consequences of the lies you have imposed on the world for so many years.
There must be parents out there whose children have suffered mental trauma because of this great scam.
All these parents should get together and get a pit bull of a lawyer to file a class action law suit in a civil court and take the global warming crooks to the cleaners.
This scandal has been understood my any with a scientific education and sense of honesty for years.
Its agonizing how the media and message is manipulated by those evil ones behind the scenes. By now we should know the strategy, classic propaganda machine. When the heats on they withdraw and make no comment, waiting for the storm to fad and then they re-attack with PR machine. Repeating this over and over wears the opposition.
They wait for the opposition to punch themselves out and give them no target to hit. If we dont destroy this paradigm…the right could ultimately be defeated by the wrong..
Is the MSM “Progressive” media conspiring to hide certain articles of information? If not, they sure do think a whole lot alike (Wink)!!!
#128 CFB: These things get confusing because we’re not dealing with a logic that says “true” or “false”, but rather a logic that has “very likely”, “very unlikely” and “can’t tell”. The paper started off saying, effectively, that it was “very likely” — which in traditional statistics would mean “95 percent chance” — that the seal level would rise between (I think) 0.75m and 1.5m by 2100. (Dont take these numbers seriously as I’m too tired to look them up. Just take them as an example.) Whatever the detailed errors were, what happened is that they couldn’t support that any longer. but that doesn’t mean it goes from being “very likely” or “very unlikely” — that would take as much evidence in the opposite direction. What they’re saying is that they made an error that means they can’t interpret to tell them anything about the sea level in a valid fashion, so they retracted the paper, which makes it “don’t know”. Then that means it no longer supports the sea level estimates of the IPCC report, but that doesn’t mean the IPCC report is “true” either. Thisd is because the results of the IPCC report are also being stated statistically, in terms like very likely.
An experiment that results in a “don’t know” doesn’t tell you anything new, so it neither supports nor refutes anything.
The thing about retractions “sometimes happening” is a bit of a misstatement, though. It’s pretty damn rare for a paper to be retracted; it’s a significant failure both for the authors, and for the editors and reviewers, usually. Not worth seppuku, but a real definite embarrassment.
We need dueling pistols and Chinese hangin’ rope.
“Do any of you remember Nicolae Ceausescu and his fate? He ransacked the Romanian economy; oppressed and starved the population. I believe he was a socialist.”
Yes I remember watching him on the news waving to a croud of his subjects below. They began to boo. You should have seen the look on his face. He ruled his country with absolute power. He was wisked away shortly after and a few hours after that he, and I believe his wife, was no longer expelling CO2 from their lungs.
In a stunning development. You can now trust Russian Papers more than your own for reality.Chinese for that matter. Only the North American press is senile of the real world.
Its deliberate & we know it.
The MSM died in 08. Its just decomposing meat these days. The stench of the decay has become rank.
To the personage who asked “do they think where that stupid”? Yes the elite entitled do. To them your no more important than Animals.
Your just a child. That cannot be allowed to run free. For the Elites by Blood, education, victimization, race, or position in society. These determine your elite status.
From crack Ho to Billionaire. The entitled makes for this new Elite!
Vampires together !
The “progressive” bias of the MSM may explain part of the mystery, but the opportunity to behead a few tall poppies, even from their own side, usually tempts a few traitors to the cause, so I don’t think it’s sufficient in itself. A possible solution to the mystery may lie in taking a peek at the investment habits of the journos and in particular their pension funds. The BBC, for instance, was recently shown to be hopelessly compromised by its staff pension fund’s extensive exposure to carbon credit derivatives and greentech stocks – now looking moribund.
There is climate change, but it is going parallel with Bible prophecy.
This is another example of the age old adage; FOLLOW THE MONEY.
The answers will all follow with a little digging.
And we the sheeple will pay the toll.
Thieves v. Whistleblowers. It was clear from the first reports which side the media would support. MSM identified the heroes as “hackers” who “stole” the information. If those same people had exposed a corporate scandal, then they would have been hailed as heroic whistleblowers. MSM forgot a long time ago that the truth does matter. We need a Goldwater to cleanse the intellectual and unionized scum from this country.
We are ‘free’ but we are so entangled with Political Correctness, we have lost our senses.
#115
Thanks BC.
Next time I’ll try to ask simpler questions and maybe you’ll understand them.
The lack of reporting on this fraud, hoax, and scandal of epic proportions by US media is par for the course. Further eveidence that the Obama administration now controls that the media reports to us. (Odumbo still says global warming is fact!) No wonder newpapers can’t make enough to stay in business, they have become irrelevant to intelligent Americans. Zero integrity!!
Al Gore – I planted trees, where’s my money ???
One thing that I do know is that without abundant energy resources we will become very poor and unable to support much of a lifestyle at all.
While villianizing CO2, what about the dreaded H2O vapor that seems to increase whenever temperature rises ! I remember leaded gas, REAL pollution (CO, NOx, SOx, Freon, O3, particulate pollution that would linger above our roadways) – I thought we were doing a great job to get internal combustion engines to have exaust of ONLY CO2 and H2O. Even meddlers with fingers in the pies will suffer as the pies dwindle… to ‘rake in’ big revenues, a growing economy is really best. If the climate were warming, we could adapt (probably produce massive crops, etc.).
What we have is a pollution made of greed.
Nothing from BC yet. I guess BC has no opinions on this subject. Maybe even BC can see that the North American MSM is not reporting on one of the biggest stories in the rest of the world, and this leaves BC addlepated. Maybe in the interest of learning, BC should start considering other viewpoints.
Al Gore and all the global warming alarmists should be lynched, at least tarred and feathered. The whole cap and trade sham would not do one thing to lower temperatures anyway! Just a ruse to rob from the productive to the unproductive.
Now is the time for some film maker with one ounce of courage to pick up Michael Crichton’s “State of Fear” and put it on the screen as was his original intention in writing it. It is a complete rebuttal of the AGW nonsense.
In the criticism of the MSM I don’t see acknowledgment that the Wall Street Journal has covered this correctly for at least ten years on its oped page, including some of the best writing on the subject by people like Lindzen, Singer, Christy and others.
Would like to know who to contact and sue for the mercury poisoning (real or being horrified, imagined). I didn’t have a HAZMAT suit handy when one of those ugly, “Gore- backed”, bulbs broke……and I think citizens who felt pressured to buy them , should get an apology from these diabolical, greedy, self- serving reprobates who tried to scam the world with their omnipotent, (but, intentionally deceptive) “knowledge”.
Class Action anyone?
For Lefties and Liberals, lying is a way of life. Lying is the #1 tactic in their playbook.
This is a simple and hard fact of life. It won’t change.
If “Independent” and “Democratic” voters understood this very simple fact of life, Liberal politicians would never again be elected to office.
As for the “Mainstream Media,” they are becoming more and more irrevelant (and unprofitable) every day. The day that the New York Times goes under for good will be a great day for America and American democracy.
It is stunning how adgenda driven the media has become. Obama seeks ever expanding (and tightfisted) control over our society on the basis of obviously fraudulent science and the media cooos over their creation. This is the most significant scientific fraud in history. The egregious taxes that will be required to repay what he’s already borrowed (look for those later this year – and yes – the $250K threshold for participation was an utter falsehood – it’ll apply to all but the very poor) but the man isn’t satified with the mere 40% of GDP he already owns – he wants the trillion dollar additional tax incorporated in the cap and trade nonsense (which will have NO demonstrable effect on climate) but it does enhance control – and hopefully, his most fervent dream of owning the medical business’ in America will also die an ignominious death this week as well. If he gets it all – he’ll be the proud owner of over 60% of the GDP of what will soon be a very poor nation (not that the academes care – they have tenure – and their detractors have mostly been dismissed by complicit polititians).
Truth be told – I think that’s the goal – with everyone mired in equal poverty, the democrats vision of equality of experience will be fulfilled (on the plus side – we’ll have a much better understanding of the last days of the old Soviet Empire). Gotta love “central planning” by huge federal systems – it’s always worked out so well for “the people”.
marc ofte – midlothian va
#9 Akatsukami: Not only will the leftypigs be crushed in November’s election, but that whining “But…but what did we do?” will be real.”
===
With the grace of God we will be able to prevent them from doing ANYTHING!!!!!
Wow, now that looks like some pretty cool stuff dude!
Jess
http://www.true-privacy.es.tc
Actually, it’s not the big a scandal. A few bits of weirdness here and there when we are talking about trillions of bits of data does not a scandal make.
And then there is the issue of the melting icecaps. Remember those? So significant a development this, that all northern nations are rethinking their military strategies to deal with the fact that the Northwest passage will soon be open to shipping.
But hey… if you Yanks want to save a little dough with your bloated military, I suggest you tell them to forget their plans, because clearly there is no need. In your mind the Arctic is frozen solid, and clearly not something you need to worry about, right?
I personaly believe that climate change is a real problem, however I am not entirely convinced.. the sciptics seem convinced to the point of fanatiscism though; this drives me ever further towards the opinion that there is a risk of it. Also reguardless of your view i dont think any reasoning human mind could see it as a bad thing to decrease the ammount of toxic fumes we pump into the air we breath. In the words of the greatest fictional mind of our time “look for the person who will benifit and urr..urrr”, apart from comparatively petty ammounts of money from cleaner fuels the side supporting global warming has reletively little to gain compared to the people who are currently making countless billions from fossel fuel, they have a lot to lose. Also the point that really convinced me, for better or for worse, was the fact that anti global warming groups hired the same “advertising” (read propoganda) group that worked for the ciguarette industry in the 60′s to persuade people ciguaretts were not harmful. Nothin could be more damning than that. However, like the 60′s, it has worked nicely; this time though by the time the solid evidence exists it may be to late, and you can just tell that the assholes who are anti global warming will not take responsibility..
This article just shows how stupid liberals are and proves the bible and the word of god are right.
REALLY? Seriously it is amazing how the people who represent the U.S. and it’s people are corrupt…”lead by example” is what I was always taught. Life isn’t that hard…it has always amazed me how crooked people have moved ahead, and then they all act like “oh, the kids today have no morals”…whatever. Then tell me why, it appears that we REWARD BAD BEHAVIOR! Seriously…why?
I thought FactCheck closed the book on this already…
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/12/climategate/
Half of your quoted sources describe the errors as insignificant and/or carrying no bearing on the larger picture of the science. Maybe the problem isn’t how the news is reported, but in how you interpret it?
epistemology:
The core of this issue is the question: how do you decide what is true or false? Do you follow evidence wherever it leads? Or do you believe whatever justifies your feelings?
People are right to condemn the handful of scientist involved in ‘climategate’. They’re guilty of cherry-picking some data to fit their assumptions and presenting it as purely evidence-based. That is no way to come to see the truth.
But people who want to use this as a disproof of climate change are doing exactly the same thing. This is just one paper. It’s a needle of hubris in a haystack of good science. That’s why is not considered “biggest scientific scandal in history”.
Be intellectually honest: Whether climate change is real or a hoax, this one fudged paper is not a proof either way. Just like the discovery of a fudged paper supporting intelligent design does not prove or disprove intelligent design.
I understand that this logical approach will offend many of the inflamed true believers in this thread. But cherry-picking doesn’t make things true, for scientists or for you.
“162. Joe:
This article just shows how stupid liberals are and proves the bible and the word of god are right.”
I don’t think you represent the majority if climate-change-doubters with that opinion, but…wow. The only people with that kind of certainty about the issue on the other side are scientists. If those are the two extremes, I’m going to listen to the scientists every time!
Wake up people!!! Husane Obama’s islamofashists are tearing this country, God’s own great nation, apart before our eyes. The homosexual agenda, the war on Christmas, and GW, and rap music are all part of the juggernaut of lies that are making our kids hate God and love the invasion of illegals and third-world ethnic types who just want to rape our daughters!
I’m well armed an prepared to defend this country for the glory of God. Are there any other believers left out there?
#166, There will never be a shortage of wrong-thinking people who are clever with words. You sound like a scientist yourself: just as wrong an arrogant. You think you can win some points by confusing people with your convoluted logic. But as your famed atheist scientists Newton, Einstein, and Pauling have all said: A scientist’s first job is to oppose God.
The GW hoax is only the tip of the iceberg. All truth comes from God, and science exists only to lead the faithful astray. And soon people like you will be history. The storm is coming. Scientists beware.
You people with your talk of “left wing media” and “liberal media” crack me up. I’d be laughing harder if you morons weren’t going to be the ones responsible for sending this country straight into the third world. First of all…every major media outlet that exists is a corporate entity. A business that thrives on the petri dish environment we’ve given them ever since awarding them the same legal status as “persons”. Since conservatives decided to gut the “fairness doctrine”, there’s no longer ANY requirement for ANYONE to provide accurate in-depth coverage of ANY issue. Way to go there, all you idiot fans of Ronald Reagan and deregulation.
So…the same action that delivered you your chubby, loud-mouthed, lying messiahs in the guise of R. Limbaugh&Co., also insured that you’re NEVER AGAIN going to be able to believe ANYTHING that ANY media outlet tells you.
You made your beds, morons. You decided you’d much rather root around in the cellar of ignorance, stupidity and lies, rather that go through the work the sunshine requires.
So suck it up. Get used to it. I hope you like mushrooms, because you’re NEVER getting out, now.
“Open letter to Al Gore.
Dear Sir,
You should be ashamed of yourself for propagating an alarmist theory which has no base in reality whatsoever.”
____
Co2 as a greenhouse gas was discovered by John Tyndall in the 1800s. The science of global warming has been established for well over 50 years. Scientists from all over the world well before Al Gore ever wrote any books or spoke about this have been taking readings on Co2 and its corrolation to temperature. My God some of you are so damn ignorant. It is established science. Pick up a book and READ instead of using Al Gore as your therapy. Better still, try taking a little responsibilty for actually working to keep this planet cleaner and safer. Pollution, deforestation, disease, etc. are NOT hoaxes. The only ones who should be ashamed are those who keep spreading this misinformation around simply to appease their own political hatred and ideological agendas.
if you don’t know the difference i just feel really bad for you…plz don’t comment if you have no idea what you are talking about…glaciers don’t just melt…the polar icecaps are retreating further and further each year…this is evidence that can’t be refuted or marginalized by some email taken out of context…move on nothing to see here…it not left its not right…get your head out of your ass
#171 and #172
You are missing the point, as liberals usually do. We have zero interest in what kind of ‘evidence’ your ‘scientists’ come up with.
The war we are fighting is for a higher truth than the small, literal, materialist one you believe in. We will protect the sacred from all those who seek to desecrate it. We will fight back against the evil powers promoting poisonous ideas such a fascism, communism, evolution, global warming, unnatural rights for deviants, women, and third-world ethnic types.
You can show us all the evidence you want. You can rub Obama’s birth certificate in our faces. We deny it all. You’re missing the point. We are at war for God and Freedom and your paltry ‘facts’ are immaterial. We have God, guns, and glory on our side. And as the Bible says, this country can only be purified by blood.
Its’ too bad none of you liberals will be around to see it, unless you see if from the depths of Hell. Watch your backs. Because we have all the guns. And we don’t care about your reasoning or arguments.
#164 Andy: Sorry, but FactCheck’s evaluation is neither complete nor is it up to date. For example, they don’t mention the multiple significant errors reported since then.
#166 Andy C: it’s not just one fudged paper; it’s the IPCC AR4 report, which now has multiple significant errors, and has also been exposed as advocacy, not a a straight-forward scientific exercise. As things stand right now, we know: many of the citations of “peer reviewed science” were actually to advocacy group’s pamphlets; that the scientific process in many papers was subverted; that data was illegally concealed (not to mention the scientific misconduct involved there); and that the whole temperature database has been so compromised by the misconduct that the UK Met Office is proposing starting over, with full data access and transparency in the data manipulation in order to reconstruct a real dataset.
Those data sets are the basis for all the science. If they’re that badly compromised, all the results need to be re-examined.
#170 Archer: So, tell me: how is it you know which media outlets to believe?
#172 Epic: Your assertion of intellectual superiority would be much more convincing if you could handle English orthography, grammar, and punctuation.
Hey Charlie,
[First off, your blog is pretty entertaining. Thanks for posting the David Shire 12-tone track. Tonight I'm up late trying to figure out how to predict consonant chords in a 31-tone temperament without resorting to theoretical wankery. So it's a perfect break.]
You’re making some pretty broad claims. If you actually want to speak reasonably about climate change denial, I’m willing to listen to evidence.
But you must realize that the burden of proof is extraordinarily high. The polar ice caps and glaciers *are* melting, and at never-before-seen rates. Plus, the temperature records that verify the warming trend are from sources all over the world, and for over a century.
No fudgery by a handful of Brits can explain any of that away. And there are many, many more independent data sets and studies that come to the same conclusion.
You seem smart and reasonable. So I won’t compare you with the evolution deniers who have to invoke a universal satanic conspiracy among all paleontologists in order to explain away evidence of evolution.
But can you back up your statement with scientific data from the actual scientific source (i.e. not copying from blogger who claims to be quoting scientists)? And can you then show how that data explains away the dramatic and clearly observable melting of glaciers and the trends in temperature data from around the world?
Actually, I forgot the big one. This gets back to the point about cherry-picking. Anyone can find a single needle of ‘maybe’ in a haystack of ‘no’. That’s exactly what backs up almost all conspiracy theories [ i.e. The lack of visible cameras in the photos from the Moon landings *proves* that the landings were faked ]. Such ‘evidence’ is more than sufficient if you’re emotionally invested in believing that the Earth is flat. If someone invites you to look at the landing sites through a telescope, you just yell about the ‘faked’ photos and refuse to look.
So, can you present the evidence supporting your position in the context of the sum of all solid evidence and show why the evidence supporting your position is more factually reliable than the [ vast and reliable ] evidence to the contrary?
Some fact about climategate
‘…that trick to hide the decline by adding real data” was talking about tree ring growth not temperature.
They talk about not referencing a journal any more because it accepted a paper they consider to be of poor scientific quality. In the end they did not act on this, and continued to reference the journal. This was because of a paper for which 5 of the 10 editors of the journal quick because they had problems with the way the paper was rushed through.
They talk about beating the crap out of someone in private, but make say nothing threatening to anybody. If they really threatened someone with violence that would be a criminal offence.
One of the scientist expresses frustration about the fact that he does not have enough data to predict short term variations in global climate, he his not expressing doubts about global warming.
Here is an authoritative source of collected scientific climate data, including raw datasets. Anyone here is welcome to perform the analyses themselves.
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/indicators/
Pointing to a pile of BS doesn’t prove anything. I’ll take Glenn Beck over all the scientists in the world any day. On any subject.
Here’s his proof of the big liberal hoax and its all anyone with a brain should need.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft8LfE7AI2w
Any evidence of global warming is already disqualified, since it’s a hoax. That should be ovbious to anyone who isn’t an idoit
Andy C, I ended up writing such a long comment about your questions that I’m going to make it into a separate article. I’ll either run it at PJM if the editors will go for it, or I’ll run it on Explorations.
Thanks for the kind words, by the way. That serial music thing struck me because I mostly have really disliked serial music, without noticing that there was a lot of serial jazz like that soundtrack that worked. It was interesting to re-listen and here the serialist transformations applied to a really musical experience.
That’s some hard-hitting reporting from a guy with Computer Science degree. You are putting an interesting spin on propaganda with this tinfoil-hat theorizing.. Just answer me this: if it’s a world-wide hubbub, then why have I never come across it in any of the foreign publications I frequent? Is the American media censoring THE ENTIRE WORLD now!? Holy crap!
#181: I don’t know, Carl. I’m linking three major British papers ± the Telegraph, the London Times, and the Guardian — and the BBC, showing they’re covering it. because I tend not to link other languages, I skipped der Spiegel and die Welt. English-language papers in India are covering it because of the problems with Dr Pachauri.
I suppose it must mean that you’ve avoided reading the major British papers, the major European papers, and the major English-language Indian papers. Maybe you’re not as widely read as you think?
Before I start a flame war, I should state that I am a conservative Christian and a Warrior for Freedom.
But I don’t entirely buy the argument that the Liberal Media isn’t covering the story just because of a big conspiracy. I think it’s because we haven’t developed a sufficiently compelling narrative.
Compare this to the Evolution narrative:
The freedom-hating liberal elites are working to destroy America by poisoning our children with a so-called “science” that will turn them against God Himself. Our core values, all but destroyed by years of liberal indoctrination, are all that stands between us and the totalitarian regime with which liberals intend to enslave us all.
Instead we have:
The freedom-hating liberal elites are working to destroy America by poisoning our children with a so-called “science” that will turn them against … CO2. Once our faith in CO2 falls, we …um…..
I will stand, shoulder to shoulder with all of my conservative brothers in this fight. But we need to step up our game, here. Let’s have some input. How does CO2 protect us from the threat of liberal totalitarian regime?
Perhaps I’m just late to the game, here. I’ve been focused on other fronts in the fight. So please help me catch up.
How, exactly, are the climate scientists, the liberal media, and the liberal political machine benefiting from all this? Why are they all putting so much time, money, and energy into demonizing CO2? What part of the liberal agenda does it serve?
Brock, just checking back and saw this. The honest answer is “I don’t know why”. I can’t see into their heads.
I’ll have another piece coming soon on this.
Hey Charlie,
I’m curious to see what you’ve written. When do you expect to post it?
Also, we might see this differently because of a difference in philosophies. I saw that the subtitle of your blog is this maxim:
“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”
I have a background in Physics (long ago). One of the great things Physics taught me was that much of what is demonstrably true is unintuitive. Quantum Theory and Special Relativity are the most obvious ones. But even the ideas that matter is made of mostly empty space and that surfaces never really come into contact with one another seem preposterous compared to common sense. One could only get there by following stark and inexplicable evidence that points in a direction far from common sense.
Since then, I’ve made it a sort of game to use evidence to try to pry unchallenged assumptions out of my head. So I’m curious to see what you’ve got.
Let’s see, your thesis is: “The biggest scandal of our times is a non-story to U.S media. Why are the London papers covering the Climategate collapse, but not ours?”
Ok, let’s see your evidence! This ought to be a slam-dunk!
Here are the links you’ve provided to non-U.S. papers:
And the links to the U.S. papers:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/14/AR2010021404283.html?hpid=topnews
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2010/02/snowmaggedon-in-washington-spurs-climate-change-doubters.html
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/12/a-historian-looks-back-at-the-climate-fight/?src=sch&pagewanted=all
Of course, I could go do the research on non-U.S. coverage, but I didn’t propose the thesis, you did. I came here looking for analysis and proof, hoping for at least a minimal effort toward a rational argument with supporting evidence, and all I find are your bald assertions, supported by . . . well, not supported, frankly. Disappointing fan-boy fluff. I should have realized I was wasting my time when I saw “. . . biggest scandal of our time. . .”, which is a mere value judgment on your part, also offered without visible means of support.
You can shut your pie hole ron. The True Believers dont need any evidence to know The Truth. We dont suffer from your puny liberal uncertainties. You say yore wasting yore time. And I couldnt agree more. Go back to yore illegal mexican boyfriend and your welfare checks.
I can tell you all about the liberal conspirasy motives. Its all a smokescreen. We’re all here jabbering about co2 and the liberal totalarian regime is on the march, locking up conservatives in concentration camps. YOU HAVE TO WATCH GLEN BECK PEOPLE, OR YOU WONT KNOW WHATS GOING ON!
Are you wondering where all the money is coming from to pay off all the scientists and the media? Its obviously all from the big government bailout! Notice how we didnt even HAVE no financial crisis until President Hussane stole the white house.
The American public loves a conspiracy. But we have to sell the whole package. We can’t go promoting an enormous, powerful, and extremely expensive conspiracy in which the conspirators have nothing whatsoever to gain. It doesn’t add up.
We need to round out this story with a compelling narrative that connects it to the liberal agenda.
We could cast this as part of the War Against Free Enterprise. How about this?
The oil and coal industries have been among the largest and most generous backers of the Republican Party for a long time, making enormous donations to our cause. The two are deeply interconnected, from the Bush oil billions to the many, many former Republican officials acting as lobbyists for the oil and coal industries. The regulation of CO2 is an underhanded attack to reign in this leading American industry – either to punish it for opposing the Demon-o-crats, or to destroy it to cut off funding for us conservatives, the last defenders of freedom, the last die-hard troops standing in the way of the Liberal Totalitarian Regime.
Perhaps we should shift our priority from arguing about CO2 to protecting the oil, gas and coal industries. We need to get rid of all government regulation strangling them and stop taxing them to death. Ayn Rand must be spinning in her grave, to see how the weak are pulling down the strong.
How does that sound?
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