Christianity: First Line of Defense for the West?
This year, the High Holiday playbook was on behalf of the Ground Zero mosque — Jews should exercise tolerance for the religion of peace. Jews became outraged at the building of a convent in Auschwitz, but a mosque at Ground Zero is part of the liberal Jewish commitment to tolerance. In Berkeley, a Jewish group celebrated tolerance by organizing a reading of portions of the Koran in a public park. (One wonders if they read the part about “kill the Jew wherever you find him.”) Erect a Christmas tree in the same park and the tolerant Koran readers will be putting in a 911 call to the ACLU’s SWAT team.
So, my intolerant, leftist friends, here is an inescapable reality to consider: no one stopped the spread of a virulent, hateful ideology with nothing. No one is going to charge a machine gun nest in the name of multiculturalism. No one takes seriously a president who grovels in front of Muslim dictators, apologizes for Western civilization, thinks nationalism is a sin, and is married to an angry woman who is ashamed of her country.
As Hannah Arendt noted in the Origins of Totalitarianism, in the face of an anomic culture, people need an organizing principle, something that mobilizes them, something in which to believe, but also something that puts a premium on life rather than self-sacrifice. Embracing life over the delusion of the lack of self is, for Hannah Arendt, what distinguishes the anti-totalitarian motivational principle.
The Marxism that collapsed with the Berlin Wall will motivate a few diehards who refuse to acknowledge reality; most Marxists have found cynicism as a replacement for the God that failed. Cynicism organizes nothing, it furthers anomie. What will Bill Maher’s audience fight for?
The one solid, inescapable organizing principle that stands as the bulwark against radical Islam is Christianity. I don’t mean the ultra-left pablum Christianity of the mainstream, empty-church Protestant denominations that reinvented Jesus as metaphor. No, I mean a fundamentalist God-fearing Christianity that understands who and what the enemy is, and possesses the moral clarity to understand the difference between good and evil. A Christianity articulated by a pastor who says that racism is evil — end of conversation.
The cynical, ultra-left Europeans have turned over their countries to the sensibilities of radical Islam. The Europeans, ever fearful and guilty of fascism, do not possess the wherewithal to resist an Islam that undermines the very liberalism Europeans seem to cherish but are unwilling to defend. What will Europe look like when a sharia-driven, radical Islam is the dominant presence on the continent? Europe culturally will be more like the Middle East than like Western democracy.
Think it can’t happen here? As long as we are unwilling as a people to embrace some organizing principle that will mobilize us on behalf of a greater good, then in time we will march down the same slippery slope as the Europeans. The great irony of our time is the Christianity the left scoffs at will emerge as the first-line of defense for the West.
Why do Christians not tell Mohammedans that suicide murderers don’t go to heaven for murdering and maiming scores of innocent men, women and children? Why do they not tell them that hell is the place that awaits the wicked? Or is it actually not pure wickedness to engage in such acts, in terms of Christian values?
Why should the Christians do this? More importantly, what good would it do for Christians to tell Muslims that? So you think they would be heard or heeded?
But I don’t think that’s the reason you posted what you did, is it?
Doesn’t matter- Muslims are all damned to Hell anyway.
We do tell them that, but as the previous response mentioned, they don’t listen.
Just because Muslims won’t listen is no reason not to state the obvious (Christian) reality.
I’m not sure what you are asking, MartinWR. If you’re asking why Christian evangelists don’t try to spread the Good News to Islamic countries, then, rest assured, they are — even in the face of formidable disincentives. Like being killed.
But we do tell them; evangelize them. The Lord, Mt.28.18-20 commanded us to do so. He saves those who obey Him, Heb.5.9, so our salvation is contingent upon our obedience to Him- and that certainly includes evangelizing.
Your assumption that we do not do so is in error.
Our big problem is that the vast majority of those professing to be Christians are not.They ignore the clear teachings of the New Testament and play a little game of churchianity while continuing in their sinful ways and acting outside of God’s parameters. They may do so blatantly or by deceptively disguising their iniquities with pious platitudes. Usually the latter. The Lord said, Mt.7.13-14, in reference to Heaven, that “few shall enter there” because “The way is hard and the gate is narrow”. Those few stand against the world.
Our salvation is NOT based on whether or not we obey him.It’s TOTALLY based on our belief in the DEATH,BURIAL,and RESURECTION OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST! 1Corinthians:1-4.Now once you accept Christ into your life,you will be GUIDED by the Holy Spirit,and you will be spiritually led to obey.Never forget tha Blood of the Cross.It’s a gift from God in his infinite Grace and Mercy that we all be saved by it and none shall perish it that accept it!!
You are mistaken if you think that christians do not say that hell awaits suicide bombers. They do. In fact there’s a fairly famous Coptic priest named Zakaria Botros who regularly says such things and he’s heard all across the Middle East. So far the resulting death threats have not dissuaded him from continuing to make this and other important points.
There are a lot of secret christians all across the ME because of Fr. Zakaria.
There’s a very good National Review article on him here:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/223965/islams-public-enemy-1/raymond-ibrahim
Wonderful article! (Full disclosure: I am a devout Christian)
One quibble, however. Christianity will not serve as the first-line of defense. It will be the only line of defense, with enemies to both the front and the rear. Those who fight for God always seem to fight alone.
Well put, Mr. Miller.
Much like America, Christianity has an image problem; the likes of Jeremiah Wright, Jessie Jackson, Fr. Pfleger, and Jim Wallis are held up as examples of Christians.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Listen carefully. What do you hear from these people? Hatred, division, a gross distortion of Gospel, anger, and a misguided belief in something called “collective salvation”.
I posit that true Christianity is found in the attitude of everyday Americans who understand that we’re all in this together. Our daily efforts to provide for ourselves and our families demonstrate our faith. Our sincere wish to treat others the way we wish to be treated, with patience and forgiveness, show our determination and commitment to Biblical principles whether we attend church or not. The overwhelming majority of us just follow our conscience so we can sleep well at night, knowing we’ve done our best.
If others in the world only see our country through the distorted lens of our major news shows, it’s no wonder that we are mischaracterized. If they judge Christianity by the false professors of God, again, it’s no wonder that Christianity is viewed negatively.
Look deeper into everyday life, into the mundane, the common, the things that don’t make it into the evening newscasts, and there you will find the soul of the nation and its Christian foundation.
While, as a Christian, I find your article directly on point, the main problem is that, over and over again, writers tend to forget that the foundational documents of this country are what gives all OUR people faith in the future. We have to base our defense on those things that the founders crystallized as the core principles of true freedom. Can you list the three parts of the Constitution that you think most typify what has made the country so great? Try next time. In this ideological battle you don’t fight for religion, or marxism, or even nationalism. We will win or lose this battle defending the Constitution and it’s great definitions of what government MUST leave alone. I believe the First Amendment and Second Amendment guarantee our abiltiy to remain free. I believe Article 1, section 2, which says we get to elect the tax man EVERY two years makes us patient. Imagine if we were waiting for a parliamentary crowd of political hacks to decide the government was going the wrong direction. Could you keep your hand to yourself for six years?
Could Professor Miller take a moment to clarify the phrase “or even Catholics?” Since the next sentence refers to “Christians who get up every morning and genuinely reflect on how they could become better people by becoming more like Jesus” he seems to see a clear distinction between the two groups. I read the phrase as a rhetorical slap in the face.
@ Joseph – Agreed.
“I don’t mean nominal Christians or even Catholics. I am talking about those Christians who get up every morning and genuinely reflect on how they could become better people by becoming more like Jesus.”
And Catholics somehow don’t? I’m really tired of this Reformation-era propaganda trope (just like “Catholics don’t read the Bible” when the readings for the Catholic Mass are cycled such that virtually the entire Bible is read or sung to every Catholic in weekly attendance over a three year period, over and over for their whole lives, as opposed to ministers who have free reign to focus on their favorite pet passages and nothing else…Epistle of James, anyone? Ah, but that’s a subject for another day).
I realize the author says he’s not a Christian, but he should be more careful when opting to believe one denomination’s characterization of another (in effect “choosing sides”) precisely because he’s on the “outside” of the issue.
Perhaps the author is hinting that he thinks a little too much humanism found its way into Catholic doctrines and teachings.
The standard for measuring whether or not someone is a Christian is this:
Do you believe that there is One God, who created the Heavens and the Earth?
Do you believe that God is the Trinity: Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
Do you believe the Jesus is God the Son, Incarnate in human flesh?
Do you believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life and died for the sake of us sinners?
Do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven?
Do you believe that faith in Jesus’ death and resurrection is the means for salvation?
Do you believe that Jesus will come again and that when He comes, the dead shall be raised and the living who await Him will be transformed, never to taste death?
If you answered yes to all seven questions, you are a Christian, and no association can alter that truth.
Myth Buster
I hope the author take what you say under consideration and will stop treating Catholics as if they were something fundamentally different from Christians.
Both protestants and catholics are vilified in the media. Both are the same from the point of view of atheists. And if author will go to Middle East muslims will not treat catholics different from protestants (or “christians”), for them we are all Christians irregardless whether protestants, orthodox or catholics.
I won’t bicker on the qualifications to be saved,But jesus said i came not to change the laws but to confirm them;You forgot our duty to stand on the Ten Commandments,That requirement is still written in stone.God knows we all come short,of the glory of god; but we must stand firm on these laws.Qr there are going to be a lot of dis-appointed christians,when jesus returns,and his true follers are caught up in the air with him.As far as denominations.The bible as well made it clear.That lucifer would decieve the world with false religions,False Prophets,and False Doctrines.Read the bible faithfully,and seek Gods face.Because the Ten Commandments alone,dis-credits most all religions,Including the majority,of Christian churches.Which is how, lucifer’s Secular Humanist progressives,Are able to dis-credit,Mock,and Manipulate most christians so easily.May God grant us the wisdom to learn the truth through prayer,Hope to see ya all, in the Kingdom of god.Where his truths,and will be Done on Earth as it is in heaven;Jimmy Joe; “The Liarfryer”
“In Christ, there is no condemnation.” So long as we bear this mortal flesh, our hearts remain a battleground where the Holy Spirit-indwelled conscience wrestles against the old sin nature. We will continue to sin from time to time until death or Rapture call us home, but we can be assured of forgiveness if we hold fast to the Cross and Resurrection.
How does one “hold fast to the cross and the resurrection” while deliberately sinning? How do y’all “explain away” passages such as Heb.5.9; IJn.3.14; Mt.7.21 et sim with your “faith alone” claptrap?
Thank you, God, for establishing the nature of christianity.
On what authority do you, in your ignorance, presume to define who is a Christian? The Lord said, Mk.16.16, “Whoever believes AND IS BAPTIZED shall be saved”. Read Heb.5.9; He saves those who OBEY Him. And your evangelical sunday school came up a little short on that one…Perhaps He Who inspired the NT knows better than Pastor Dumbrowski?
FYI, I’m a Catholic, and the questions I listed are the questions asked of one who wishes to be baptised. They are, in short, the Apostles’ Creed, divided and restated as questions. As for what authority I have to make this claim, see Romans 10:9-10 and 1 Corinthians 15.
Try to not be overly sensitive about this. Catholics maintain the separation – the rest of Christendom simply looks on and wonders what it’s all about. As a protestant youth at Catholic school, I was in the “pagans” group who were exempted from catechism studies. When we “other Christians” ask Catholics to join us in our various missions, the Catholics invariably reply that,”No thank you – we have our own organizations for that.” God bless ‘em, they do good work, but they insist on being separate and apart, the true faith. Not being inclined to argue about it, I just go along with it.
Everyone is free to disagree with the Catholic (and Orthodox, Maronite, and other ancient rites of Christianity). We are all brothers in baptism anyway and we will iron all those wrinkles in the world to come.
In my experience I have found that all I can do is offer my love to everyone who sincerely tries to follow Christ in whatever denomination or group they desire to keep company. Christ Himself said that “when two are gathered in my name, I shall be there” and He also revealed a mysterious yet powerful truth: “the Spirit goes where He pleases” and that is why there are certain manifestations of the Holy Spirit, the Giver of Life among all of us.
One thing however we cannot charge the Spirit of God with: doctrinal confusion coming from nearly everyone having a personal interpretation on this and that, that coupled with the condemnation of others based on the flimsiest of “Scripture-based reasoning”. Why? Because the Spirit cannot be giving all of us different doctrines if He is to “lead us to all truth” like Jesus promised. And Jesus also warned us about judging others, even when they may be baptizing in His name on the “other side of the Jordan”. Let them be, it is not our job to scatter but to gather.
Years ago I had to decide with very simple tools and a bit of common sense, where I was supposed to serve the Lord. He came to me, undeservedly and graciously but he left the matter of what Church for me to decide. I was reading C.S. Lewis (Church of England) at the time. He helped me greatly. In one of his books I read:
“We are all rightly distressed, and ashamed also, at the divisions of Christendom. But those who have always lived within the Christian fold may be too easily dispirited by them. They are bad, but such people do not know what it looks like from without. Seen from there, what is left intact despite all the divisions, still appears (as it truly is) an immensely formidable unity. I know, for I saw it; and well our enemies know it. That unity any of us can find by going out of his own age. It is not enough, but it is more than you had thought till then. Once you are well soaked in it, if you then venture to speak, you will have an amusing experience. You will be thought a Papist when you are actually reproducing Bunyan, a Pantheist when you are quoting Aquinas, and so forth. For you have now got on to the great level viaduct which crosses the ages and which looks so high from the valleys, so low from the mountains, so narrow compared with the swamps, and so broad compared with the sheep-tracks.”
He also says in Mere Christianity
“Our divisions should never be discussed except in the presence of those who have already come to believe that there is one God and that Jesus Christ is his only Son.”
Lewis gallantly followed his own advise and never strayed from it to criticize others, he reserved his arrows for those AMONG HIS OWN (Anglicans) who were denying the Divinity of Christ, the historical reality of Jesus, the creation by God and so forth. In doing so he was extremely charitable while at the same time short and to the point. He wanted to correct and not to hurt. A formidable champion of the Faith he was. I lost count of how many people I’ve met who have come to Christ after reading his books. He gathered obediently, he did not scatter. I took him as my example of what a Christian should do, hence my mission to defend the whole flock and not to merely move sheep from one pen to the next.
These days, the last days of this world according to the Apostles, we fight a tremendous enemy: the forces of the Antichrist. Those forces are attacking us in a myriad of ways: Morally, with pornography and lax societal rules, abortion, and attacks on life itself. Politically, with multiculturalism, unbridled immigration of masses of poor and downtrodden, economic disasters created to destroy our families and towns. Intellectually, by presenting a godless view of the world, the religion of Darwinism, Marxism, and Freudianism, and many more destructive things big and small.
Those are our enemies and to them we must present a united front by putting our doctrinal differences aside. Many think that they don’t need “a pope who tells them what to believe” but have no qualms in becoming popes unto themselves even pronouncing harsh judgment upon those following Jesus who happen to disagree with their particular interpretation.
Why don’t we get along humbly? Isn’t is better to be like the disciples on the way to Emmaus–hearts aflame with His word–than to be like the same disciples bickering among themselves while they walk after Jesus on their way to Jericho?
Let us pray for Christian unity. Chesterton wrote once about this:
“We are all in the same boat in a stormy sea, and we owe each other a terrible loyalty.”
And Richard Baxter also said very wisely:
“Is it not enough that all the world is against us, but we must also be against one another? O happy days of persecution, which drove us together in love, whom the sunshine of liberty and prosperity crumbles into dust by our contentions!”
Also John Wesley, and I agree completely on his counsel here:
“Let us resolve, first, not to hurt one another, to do nothing unkind or unfriendly to each other . . . Let us resolve, secondly, God being our helper, to speak nothing harsh or unkind of each other . . . to say all the good we can, both of and to one another . . . Let us, thirdly, resolve to harbour no unkind thought, no unfriendly temper towards each other . . . Let us, fourthly, endeavor to help each other on in whatever we are agreed leads to the Kingdom. So far as we can, let us always rejoice to strengthen each other’s hands in God.”
And finally Lewis says:
“The time is always ripe for re-union. Divisions between Christians are a sin and a scandal, and Christians ought at all times to be making contributions toward re-union, if it is only by their prayers.” (“Answers to Questions on Christianity,” p. 60)
But most importantly we have the words of the Lord Himself:
“As the Father loves me, so I also love you. Remain in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and remain in His love. “I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and your joy may be complete. This is my commandment: love one another as I love you. No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you.”
“I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as We are one, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.”
I hope these poor reflections are in that spirit.
Amen!
First of all, thank-you for making my early morning. Second, it is time for all Christian believers to stop the in-fighting and focus on our “common baptism”, be we Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant. We are living in very dark and difficult times and must be witnesses for the Lord.
That is precisely my point: “common belligerence” must engender a temporary unity at least. If someone thinks that an order that lasted 21 centuries can be challenged by a single person armed with the Bible that came from that order… OK, no problem. Now there’s this little issue of someone shooting at ALL of us Christians. Let us take care of it and then later we can continue the discussion.
“poor reflections” ? Now now, false modesty is almost up there with the sin of Pride, no?
Really, I add, amen, and yet again AMEN!
And then copy out that little homily for further reflection.
Thanks from a former Anglican who recently “swam the Tiber.”
I should have said “hasty reflections”… I hope I did not sound too haughty
No, we won’t, Catino. Not even close. Catholics are not baptized(immersed). The very structure of the liturgical sects is contrary to the NT pattern. Pastors there are also bishops, overseers, elders and must be married men with believing children. But y’all spit in God’s face and require just the opposite; unmarried men without children; believing or otherwise. And then y’all add in all sorts of unauthorized nonsense: find me an archbishop, a pope, a monsignor in the NT; ain’t none, are there? Y’all invented auricular confession in the late 500s. So nobody got his sins forgiven and everybody went to Hell for the first 500 years of christianity? How can you defy Jesus Christ and still call yourself a Christian?
So St. Paul was fit to be an Apostle, but not an elder? For that matter, your interpretation of Scripture would disqualify Jesus Himself from being a leader in the Church. No, that passage can not rationally be interpreted to disqualify the celibate. The rational interpretation is that it disqualifies recent converts (who have not yet proved themselves fit for command) and those obviously unfit (those lacking chastity, drunkards, men whose own house is not in order, and those ensnared by other vices).
MythBuster:
I hear that all the time. Any man with a Bible is infallible except the Bishop of Rome. Flimsy reason is final, as long as it comes from “me”. A sad state of affairs indeed that we can’t stop bickering even when our foes so obviously consider us one and the same. And even most shameful when our Lord and Owner commanded us to be ONE.
White Tiger:
Not only Catholics but all of the Oriental Churches baptize by aspersion. The Greek word “baptizos” is used in Jewish and Christian writings contemporary of Jesus for the “baptism” of houses, beds, plots of land, city gates, etc. The Jewish priesthood blessed things by aspersion since the times of Aaron. Read the Bible. Read it carefully and prayerfully and please refrain from accusing until you got to the bottom of things, until you have talked to you brother who is “wrong”. There is always a small possibility, a minute, almost invisible possibility that you may be wrong. Who knows? Why not dialogue and learn before we hurl the accusations in front of the unbelievers? The only One hurt by these brawls is the One we crucified. By bickering in front of the unbelievers we rip His crucified body apart. That is what C.S. Lewis wisely warned us about. Let us be one in something… in prayer, for example. I shall pray for you.
white tiger – I can say with confidence that you do not understand Catholicism. I am a Catholic with three children, all of whom were baptised by immersion, a rite that is recognized across the entire Church even as it is not universally required. So when you say that “Catholics are not baptized(immersed)” you are at the very least overbroad.
You further lose the point in claiming that Catholics do not follow the pattern of liturgy in the New Testament. The New Testament was gathered up and dubbed the NT by Catholics (the Great Schism not having happened yet, they were all also Orthodox). They could do this because the bishops of the Church were the successors of the Apostles and had teaching authority that predated the NT and has never been withdrawn. The pattern of liturgy is set down by the bishops through the Bible and the Bishops have, from time to time and with the needs of the faithful in mind to better develop a relationship with Christ further developed liturgical worship.
Finally, in the book of Acts, you find the deacons established as helpers because the job became too large. You do not find Monsignors et al there because the job had not become large enough to justify them but it did later. The power of the apostles and their successors to establish new offices after the Resurrection is clearly there. When did that power lapse?
All that being said, I’d still stand with you against those who would murder us both for believing in Christ, no matter how we each think each other’s understanding of him is flawed. I hope you would to.
Catino — I realize I’m a late arrival, but may I have this dance?
Catino, I’ll just add another “Amen”–and an Alleluia as well!
Good point. Catholics, after all, treat Protestants as if they are not the same as them. Our church (I’m a Presbyterian) will be happy to serve communion to a Catholic believer, but I can’t take communion at a Catholic church. I know another Presbyterian who tried to take communion at a Catholic church once, and the priest smacked her hand away. So if Catholics are allowed to see the difference between a Catholic and other Christians, why aren’t the other Christians?
Because they still consider us heretics and I doubt we will ever be forgiven from breaking away from “the true Church”, and then there is the transubstantiation thing. And they still preserve the idea that Mary remained a virgin forever, even though the scriptures talk of the brothers and sisters of Yeshua. They were the ones to maul the laws set forth in the Torah, to build something appealing to gentiles and so different from the Jewish religion forgetting that Jesus was a Jew, which like it or not that is much more important to our belief system than whether or not Mary remained a virgin. I can not imagine it being important to Him. I wonder if even once “the Church” looks at itself and wonders what is important to Him.
Communion for the Catholic is not the same as for a non-Catholic; I may not take communion in a protestant church. Catholics believe the wafer and wine to be literally the Body and Blood.
Claudia:
Get a good biblical dictionary and read about the meaning and use of the word “aj” in Aramaic and its translation into Greek for the Textus Receptus (adelphos and adelphoi). Things will look more clear after that.
We can leave those 16th century divisions aside for a little while and close ranks to face the common foe. Like Chuck Colson calls it “common belligerence”.
Um, Catholics don’t actually “take” communion, they receive Communion, like a gift….
I hear you, Joseph. My brows popped at the one!
I saw that as very revealing that a non Christian can see what a lot of so called Christians can’t. The church is full of nominal Christians, will they be the ones who are willing to give their lives for Gods Word, the only truth in this world. No of course not. It’s the ones who seek to do our Lord and Saviors will daily despite how unpopular it is. Great article
god and ten dollar gas (when the towers fell down)
Bravo. Good commentary. These days moral clarity is to be avoided like the plague, and you parse the reasons nicely.
Good essay, dude!
Well done Mr. Miller.
While I agree that Christians are far more scorned than Islam both here and in Europe, I really don’t want to go down the road of pitting Christianity against Islam. To me, religious wars ended in the early 18th century and we should leave them there.
The radical Islamists that want to kill infidels and rule the world are to be stopped, just like the Nazis needed to be stopped, but even during World War II we had a basic fundamental notion that at least some Germans were different than the hard-core Nazis. We need to hang on to that belief in this current war against radical Islam. There are at least some Muslims out there that wish us no harm and are willing to live in peace. There are many examples of Muslims living in Indonesia (the world’s most populous Muslim nation), Malaysia, and in other parts of the Far East where Muslims mind their own business and just want to go about their daily lives. But it’s the radicals in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Somalia, and Yemen, where the radical Islamists wage their stupid war against the West.
What do we do about it? Well, we keep after the radicals in those countries and crush them. And I mean really crush them. Strength is the only thing people respect in the Middle East, or the “Strong Horse” as bin Laden called it. We can at least discourage this movement with overwhelming force, sending a clear signal to these maniacs that if they continue this war against us they will pay a very, very, heavy price. It has worked in the past. But we have to mean what we say and back it up with unbelievable power, convincing these lunatics that they had better go back to what they used to do, fighting amongst themselves, rather than even try attacking the United States.
You are not going to get that choice because the enemy won’t give it to you. For the enemy, this is a continuation of the jihad that began in the 7th century. You’ve already failed to understand your enemy’s mindset and goals.
This is a serious category error. You are comparing a political movement that was comprised mostly of two countries’ (Germany and Austria) elites and a religion that covers all social classes in forty some countries. They are not comparable.
Everyone acknowledges the existence of non-radical Muslims. What we cannot agree on is their relevance. Many of us say that they are irrelevant because they are allegedly a majority but are curiously impotent to control the radicals. If 98% of a society cannot control 2% effectively, then that either makes them irrelevant to the discussion or complicit.
The problem here is Islam itself. Anyone who has studied the religion’s history knows how deeply violence and conquest are tied into its behavior. As long as Americans continue to believe that a fundamentally bad religion can be ignored because many practitioners don’t take it very seriously, we’ll continue to face serious problems with Islam.
Just a note that Radical Islamists were in collusion with the Nazis because of their shared hatred for Jews. The Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt had a mullah, a lead teacher, posted in Nazi Germany and associated and counseled regularly with Hitler.
If I’m not mistaken, the Muslim Brotherhood has its origins in the late 1920′s in Egypt, a few years after the inception of the National Socialist party in Germany. Although philosophically and theologically very different, they both started as revanchist movements responding to catastrophic defeat in World War I, of the Ottoman Empire and the Kaiser’s Germany respectively.
I’m Catholic too, BTW. In response to Mr. Miller at #23 and #25, remember that the Church is a 2000 year old institution living in a rapidly changing, often perspectiveless world. We’ve gone through many cycles of decline and renewal and will again. I would think Judaism would have an even longer perspective. As a great man once said, “Be not afraid.” Peace
Sorry- your anjalogy is inapt. Your line is more like claiming that only a minority of Nazis were directly involved in the Holocaust, and so we shouldn’t hold it against the vast majority of “moderate” Nazis.
‘German’ is an ethnic identity, inborn and unchanging. ‘Muslim’, like ‘Nazi’, is an ideological doctrine and self-identification, professed or rejected by choice. The public wearing of niqab or the Wahabi beard-and skullcap is no different at all from, in fact almost identical to, publicly displaying a swastika armband or a Hitler salute: an act of symbolic hate speech.
The first question here is, “Who is a Muslim?”.
Many people claim to be Christians but they don’t go to church and don’t pray so they are only Christians in name.
There are many Muslims that are Muslims in name only too.
So what is the test?
A Muslim that prays 5 times a day, goes to the Mosque on a regular basis and keeps the fast is an active Muslim and a threat to non-Muslims.
The only good thing that I have to say about Islam is that its leaders say what they want; “A world Caliphate”.
Strange that much of the West simply says, “Well they’re just saying that”.
In Israel which is where I live, we ask the question, “What is the differnce between an extremist Muslim and a moderate one”.
The answer?
The extremist wants to kill kafirs (non-believers) today and the moderate wants to kill them tomorrow.
Muslims don’t go to the Mosques to pray they go to learn about politics and hate.
Europe will soon have to decide between its sacred democracies and Islam.
http://misconceptions.us/should-the-sacred-cow-be-slaughtered-is-democracy-simply-the-golden-calf/
The only real question I have about Abe’s article is whether or not Christianity can or will save the world from Islam.
Christian philosophy is to turn the other cheek; but maybe Christians won’t when it becomes a choice between, “Your religion and mine”.
A while back they didn’t turn the other cheek!
The Crusades were a series of military expeditions launched by Christian Europe in an attempt to reclaim territory from the Muslims.
In addition to waging war on the Muslims, the Crusaders also fought Paganism and numerous Christian sects.
These holy wars were sanctioned by Popes and many civic leaders, and they had far-reaching repercussions, some of which continue to be felt today, despite the fact that the Crusades ended in the 14th century.
So I guess I’ll bite: given that, as you admit, the Crusades were a response to Muslim aggression, what was wrong with the Church responding?
Hi,
I wasn’t really trying to set a bait
I grew up in London and spent a lot of time in Europe and have felt for many years that Europe no longer has the will to fight.
My feeling is, and it’s nothing more, is that the two world wars knocked the stuffing out of it.
According to calculations by ‘Christian Research’, by 2035, there will supposedly be about 1.96 million active Muslims in Britain, compared with 1.63 million church-going Christians.
Islam isn’t going to go away unless its members are physically ousted, and soon, and I can’t envisage a scenario wherein armed Christians will be expelling armed Muslims from their countries.
I find the following very interesting and prescient ..
Professor Alexander Fraser Tytler, a Scottish historian who in 1787, writing about the decline and fall of the Athenian Republic over two thousand years before, said:
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.”
“The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence:
From bondage to spiritual faith
From spiritual faith to great courage
From courage to liberty
From liberty to abundance
From abundance to complacency
From complacency to apathy
From apathy to dependence
From dependence back again into bondage”.
* Europe and perhaps the States would sadly appear to be somewhere between apathy and dependence.
I personally believe that the above were in fact written by two different people, but they blend well.
This article is about the Wilders trial
http://www.ourchangingglobe.com/misc/wilders.pdf
Michael
Because the church is not authorized, in the NT, to engage in military activities. That is up to the civil government. The church, Mt.28.18-20, is to evangelize the world, and, Mt.25.31-46, minister to the needy. We are not to add to nor take away from scripture, and so cannot do that which scripture does not authorize. Thats why.
If over half of us have Christian backgrounds, who is scorning us? Why would it matter if we were scorned or misunderstood unless those few had actual power over us?
It’s time to be very, very careful. (And I am a devout Catholic.)
One of the worst things one can do regarding a religious faith is to adopt it or advocate it for its utilitarian value. A faith must stand on its own merits, just like any other proposition in metaphysics. It’s neither provable nor disprovable – that’s the definition of a religious faith – but it must be judged on its intrinsic qualities rather than on the projected consequences of its adoption.
I don’t know if there’s a specific word for the exhortation to “Believe this, not because it’s true, but for some other reason.” I do know that such “belief” is the most fragile thing in the world, which will crack or shatter on the instant it’s given sufficient inducement. True faith accepts a religion’s mythos because it strikes him as plausible and beautiful; it accepts a religion’s ethos because it accords with his conscience and his fundamental sense of how men ought to treat one another. All else is doomed to failure.
For an interesting reverse-take on this argument, I recommend Tom Kratman’s recent novel The Tuloriad.
However, efficacy is a strong argument for validity. The fact is lies don’t work. The foundation is faulty, and therefore, subject to corruption. Truth, however, works.
Thank you for your enlightened article, Dr. Miller.
After reading this paean of praise to Christianity, with a smattering of antisemitism thrown in for leavening, I would have to say that religious extremists of all stripes are, for the most part, despicable people. Jews have had some problems over the past 2000 years with Christians who sought to destroy them. On the other hand, Jews trying to befriend Muslims is quite similar to a sheep befriending a wolf – a very dangerous game for the sheep.
Christianity and Judaism have both undergone reformation in the last 500 years. Islam has not. In fact, the leaders of the four mainstreams of Islam met in 1186CE and agreed that there would never be a further, reforming, interpretation of any of the major works of Islam.
Muslims are taught by the Koran to kill the infidel if he cannot be enslaved or converted. It is not a religion of peace. All of those verses [suras] in the Koran were abrogated by later teaching of Mohammad, i.e., the Mecca texts [peace/love] versus the Medina texts [war/conquest].
“smattering of antisemitism?” You lost me there. Just where exactly did that part come in?
Jews have always been the cause of their own problems. Since the day they left Egypt, apostasy and the effects thereof have been the number one problem of the Israelites. The persecutions are not nearly as destructive as the traitors in their own ranks. Until they accept this truth and repent, they will continue leading themselves to the slaughter.
We have all been the cause of our own problems…. not just the Jews. It’s the human condition.
“with a smattering of antisemitism thrown in for leavening . . .”
Are we having an overly sensitive moment here? Perhaps you can direct us to what’s troubling you?
Islam is the only religion whose founding figures went around committing massacres, conquests, hegemonisation, forced conversions (of Zoroastrians & pagans), and making those of other religions 2nd-class citizens. Because of that, Muslim “radicals” dominate Islam even in the West (http://intelligencesquaredus.org/index.php/past-debates/islam-is-dominated-by-radicals/). All other religions can say to the extremists in their midst “How can that extremism be ok when our founding figures didn’t do that.” But moderate Muslims can’t say that, b/c Islam’s founding figures DID do those horrible things.
Well written Mr Miller. I too should disclose that I’m a Christian, and thank you for your honest insight, even though you yourself aren’t Christian. I think it’s easy for people to react (quite rightly) against the extremes and hypocrisy unfortunately found in much of the church, and generalise that against the whole. W
– I’m glad you can see past that to the real issues.
That you said you are not a Christian but have written what you have speaks volumes about your integrity and your courage. Bravo to you for being a man of principle. Many may not like to hear it for all the BS reasons we have heard over the last few decades, but Christian virtues under girded the greatest and most enduring civilizations of the known world and anyone who says differently is a liar or an idiot. Or both. They have been marginalized or shunted aside by a ruling elite with an agenda. The left loves the Muslims because they will continue the assault on the West that the left has been aiming for. The Muslims are their shock troops. Many of us get what is happening and understand that unless it is stopped, we are doomed. Are we ready to defend our civilization, or will we be overwhelmed by an alien, hostile ideology just because we were afraid of being called an Islamophobe?
….may God bless you……..
Good essay Mr Miller. I too should disclose that I’m Christian, and thank you for your honest reflections on these issues.
I think very often people react (quite rightly) against the extremes and hypocrisy unfortunately found in much of the so-called church, and then naturally generalise that against the whole – I’m glad there are still outside observers who recognise there’s a real distinction. Money-grabbing televangelists and vitriolic racial preachers, a Christian does not make.
Many thanks and God bless.
Can I hear an Amen?
Why on earth did you not continue to attend a Christian Church if you thought the speaker spoke true? I think you can sit in the pews and not be a Christian. I know I attended mass for years, and the priest knew I wasn’t Catholic. I was loved just as another flock member.
May I invite you to attend a church, any church? It is good to hear things you think are true, and things you think might be true, and things that you hadn’t considered at all. It helps one grow. Sunday School, which I know is the sort of thing people snicker about, is as close to what I can think ” the ancients” lived with- people in a room reading a text, then trying to make sense of it, and to apply it to their lives, and to bring their lives to apply to the text, as well. They ask, each week, is it right? is it good? is it true?
And, gosh, music and study, and flowers and candles and the meeting, and people saying ” It’s good to see you!” and it’s free. every last little bit of it.
And you haven’t got a clue that your responsibility is to trust, love and obey He Who would be your Savior? To serve Him with all your heart, mind, strength and soul? Or is it all about you and your flowers and music and friendly handshakes?
Christianity — or true Christians — by themselves cannot fight back against Islam. Christianity has been tarred and smeared too much; it is not strong enough now to do such a thing; it’s too fractured. Even if it did rouse itself, it would be stabbed in the back and quickly crushed — for too long the “crazy Christian” and the “racist, redneck Bible thumper” meme have been allowed to take hold (along with the great papist conspiracy to control the world and whatever they’re supposed to do — I think we Catholics are supposed to drink the blood of babies or something — yes, that’s sarcasm, but not too far off the mark of what others have insinuated, now isn’t it?). Even other Christians believe this about each other — let alone Jews and atheists — no, there is no way Christianity alone could mount a decent defense for everyone, it has a hard enough time just defending itself (sounds very familiar doesn’t it? that’s because every group outside of the leftists and the jihadis have allowed themselves to be fractured, and they stubbornly stay that way).
This is not a fight just for the Christians: every infidel, every apostate, every nonbeliever will be targeted at some point. This is everybody’s fight. United we stand, divided we all fall.
You underestimate us. Christianity has toppled empires; it is incapable of failure if we are truly committed and faithful.
You are a smart guy. Can you provide us with a scriptural definition of “christianity”? We better first know what it is before we say a lot about it?
Mr. Miller, Despite the protestations of whatever ” Rabbis ” you listened to rest assured they were Rabbis in name only. They did not represent authentic Judaism in the slightest. If you want good rabbinic opinion or commentary spend us much time finding someone truly qualified, as though you were looking for a doctor for your body, as opposed to a doctor for your soul.
Joseph. Certainly there are Catholics who comprise a community of believers, and if you number yourself among them, I have no quarrel, and, perhaps, I should have been more precise in my prose. But the Catholic Church as a hierarchy has lost its way. It is mired in sex scandal and cover up, not just in America but across the globe. It’s most prestigious institutions of higher education, like Georgetown, have embraced political correctness with a vengeance. It is Notre Dame of all places that has lobbied the State Department for a visa for a faculty appointment for Tariq Ramadan, whom Ayaan Hirsi Ali refers to as a stealth Jihadist. His father is a founder and leading theorist of the Muslim Brotherhood. One of the worst pieces of Islamo-facist propaganda that I heard was a lecture held in the social hall of a Catholic Church in Dayton and officially sponsored by the Catholic Archdiocese of Cincinnati. A Muslim woman gave an unchallenged picture of Islam replete with glorification of the Taliban. She mocked the Trinity without challenge as the audience politely smiled and tried to show a link between Koran and the church over, in her words, “those who killed Jesus.” I guess we all know who those people are. This brought more than a few nods from the audience. I tried to write a rejoinder in the Catholic newspaper published in Cincinnati, and I ran into difficulties at every turn. Finally, months later, when no one cared the piece was published. One of the people working for the Cincinnati archdiocese and an organizer of the lecture was a student of mine who was involved with the Sandinista movement and liberation theology. Yes, there is a community of believers, as I understand it, who transcend both the political correct nonsense and the Church hierarchy. When they take over the Catholic church in America, it will once again be a meaningful “organization.” Until then, the hierarchical church and its pursuit of the Tariq Ramadans of the world to me is a meaningless institution as a line of defense against radical Islam. Yet, I welcome the thought of a community of believers within the church, a community whose faith transcends the hierarchical church. If you are one of those, my apologies for not making the distinction.
Catholic Church is aching for a renewal; there may be some signs, but they are painfully slow in coming. Ecclesia militans should be the order of the day, but that is unlikely to happen without repealing Vatican II for starters and shedding the ecumenical rot. Just as America is aching for another Great Awakening to restore the true Christian nation. Greatest darkness before dawn?
Abraham,
Your understanding of the Catholic Church “Hierarchy” is flawed. Catholic universities, for example, operate independently from Rome. Likewise nearly all of the scandal you refer to is local in nature. It is also extremely overblown. When compared honestly to other groups, the rates of abuse are no higher. While unfortunate, especially for the victims, it is only a “Scandal” because it involves the Catholic Church. It was also being reformed internally long before the media and ambulance chasers caught wind of it. That is why many cases involve accusations against priests that are dead or too feeble to defend themselves.
Ultimately, the Catholic Church is the repository of the teachings of Christ, and the people involved, along with their personal sins, are irrelevant. While the examples of wayward Catholics you mention are of concern, in that they lead good people astray, the Catholic “hierarchy” has little power over them.
In any event, what matters is not the strength of a given organization, but that Christian values, the foundation of Western civilization, are preserved. As Arnold Toynbee said: Civilizations die from suicide, not murder.
Mr. Miller, as an observant Christian and recent convert to Catholicism, I find your parochialism truly offensive.
Don’t worry, I’ll be quite OK. (So will the RC Church!)
But, please, consider expanding your horizons.
That said, thank you very much for giving “muscular” Christianity (the far from perfect, RC Church fills that bill), versus the Christianity “lite” of the mainline, Protestant churches a hat tip. You’re on to something very significant here. I appreciate that very much.
All the best.
This is right on point. Those who oppose oppressive ideologies such as totalitarian multiculturalism, must do so with not only with an extensive support group but an extensive organizing principle. Christinanity provides this. All of this brings up the a very telling question: why are not moderate intellectuals a force for good? Why do they not oppose totalitarian multiculturalism?
I watch both here in the San Francisco Bay Area and back in my native Chicago, the most destructive and mindless political opinions emanating from the rabbinate. What qualifies these buffoons as authorities on politics? In Marin, there are rabbis who will not permit the showing of “Obsession,” because it is too pro-Israel. One Berkeley congregation debates whether news of Israel should be inserted in the congregation’s newsletter because it might “give offense” to some of the members of the congregation. In Evanston, Jews have a choice between Beth Emet, whose past and present rabbis are intimately involved with the anti-Zionist, Soros-funded J Street, and the Reconstructionist congregation whose rabbi is a member of the leftist, anti-Zionist Jewish Voice for Peace. I now one good Zionist, Republican rabbi in Chicago, who keeps a low political profile for fear of offending his board with his political opinions. Finding a good rabbi and a good congregation that will support him is almost impossible. Jews still think that God spoke to FDR.
I moved. This pastor was unique, nor rare, unique, as was his congregation. There were people in it who were true Christians. Their lives revolved around doing something for their fellow man. It was a sight to behold, and the experience causes me to be angry with those who mock Christians.
Mr. Miller: An excellent article, well written and thoughtful for the most part. Roman Catholicism has its redeeming qualities (most notably its stand against aborticide) and is one of the oldest forms of Christianity…but not the ONLY form.
As for yourself Mr. Miller, why are YOU not a Believer in Jesus? Hmm? Do you somehow think that when He comes, He will welcome you into His Kingdom for this fine article? I urge you to find one of those congregations which you stood up so well for and begin to attend and learn of the One whom you have written of so eloquently.
I will assume that you are Jewish. I urge you to embrace Yeshua as Moschiach. He IS coming to judge both living and dead.
Liberals and pretty much anyone other than true believers dislike christians due to their religion being plastic and malleable whilst simultaneously having to endure flaccid arguments from devout believers regarding concepts said believers can barely grasp, e.g. “timelessness.”
In the 1400′s the Spanish, like plenty of other christian nations, were perfectly OK with slavery. Even the pope thought it was a reasonable thing. The Spanish started the movement against slavery when Isabella (yes THAT Isabella) decided that enslaving the people of the New World as a matter of standard business wasn’t the sort of thing god wanted. 1471: Slavery good. 1497: Slavery bad. Ahhh, timelessness. Meanwhile, Isabella also encouraged Torquemada. Consistency: your mileage may vary.
The founding fathers of the US seemed to be OK with slavery and keeping women as non voting second class citizens, and we all have to endure christian claims that the US was founded as a “christian nation.” Oh, really. So, the claim is that christians founded a nation where slavery was OK, yet modern christians denounce slavery and conveniently ignore the rest. This is malleability. Hubris is the part where the modern believer lays claim to “this is how it was back then” without quite grasping that claiming adherents were products of their time is antithetical to a claim of timeless Trvth.
As such many “liberals” and various/sundry non-believers tend to dislike and otherwise view christians suspiciously due to their specious claims of Absolute Trvth. Meanwhile your thesis seems flawed in that “liberals” etc don’t view *any* religious claims to Trvth as worthy: christians and muslims are merely competing variants (even if opposed variants) of the same claim. “Liberals” don’t endorse muslims any more than they endorse christians.
As for claims that “liberals” are against christians but endorse muslims, keep in mind that we in this country see more backlash against christian silliness than muslim silliness due solely to mathematics: more vocal christians vs vocal muslims to have to react to. Import a few million yammering muslim imbeciles claiming their views are Absolute Trvth *and* mainstream and I guarantee you’ll see plenty of “liberals” taking a dump on the muslims: a Jerry Falwell type with a cross or Jerry Falwell waving a crescent moon is still an imbecile.
> Import a few million yammering muslim imbeciles claiming their views are Absolute Trvth *and* mainstream and I guarantee you’ll see plenty of “liberals” taking a dump on the muslims: a Jerry Falwell type with a cross or Jerry Falwell waving a crescent moon is still an imbecile.
Well, it isn’t like liberals haven’t had a chance to do as you hypothesize. You know, the cartoons? In Denmark, first, and now here. The Washington Post wouldn’t publish the “Non Sequitur” strip when it did a spoof on “Where’s Waldo?”, namely, “Where’s Muhammad?” What’s the deal? They didn’t want to offend Muslims? That’s a religious sensibility the Post has never shown toward Christians. They just know that Christians aren’t likely to kill them for insulting Jesus.
And if Christians are as much like Muslims as you would like us to think, aren’t you giving them the wrong idea here? That, to get any respect, Christians have to be willing to behead journalists and drive jet planes into buildings?
Infidels hate Christians because they hate Jesus, whether or not they want to admit it. Part of the reason for their hatred is that we, like the Master, confuse them.
The answer to oppression by one religion is not to swing toward the tenets of another. Christianity is currently going through a passive phase but has many instances of violent persecution in its history. Any belief system which is predicated on a metaphysics that is other-worldly will inevitably creep toward oppression because it denies this life in favor of the afterlife. Therefore people have a duty to sacrifice in this life for a better reward later on because that’s what God demands. It seems to me that Christians and Muslims are in agreement on this point, no? Not to mention the altruistic tenets at the core of every mystical belief system which will inevitably result in statism. In order to gain the favor of the Mighty Ghost in the Sky, followers (geez, I hate that word) must sacrifice their own interests for the good of the group. Thus the individual must give up his/her judgment in favor of someone who “knows better”, whether a religious or state authority.
If you truly despise creeping Sharia, you should look at the fundamental principles of religion as a phenomenon. You will see that they all hold common principles that are life and world denying. This is the source of widespread and popular syncretism which seeks to reconcile all religious belief systems saying that despite their outer contradictions, at the core they are all One. You should see the seeds of multi-culturalism here. Therefore all religion must be dismissed as false. We cannot fall into the trap of substituting one flavor of falsehood for another.
Religion is not necessary at all for living life in accord with a rational philosophy which respects individual rights.
I think that you’ve basically paraphrased the position of Karl Marx. After giving it a try, we now know what result comes from that kind of thinking!
An Objectivist differs from other kinds of infidels only in the snare- greed and arrogance. I won’t deny that the teaching of the cross confuses you and sounds like foolishness to your ears, but it is in these paradoxes that the Truth is made clear. To live with Christ, we must die with Christ. Yet, Christianity is consistent with Objectivism concerning the role of government and the rights of labor and owners. Where it differs is Jesus’ superior morality. The fact is that Ayn Rand was an adulteress, a blasphemer, an idolater and a murderer, and she was proud of it. Yes, you absolutely have the right to hold onto your own money, but if you make it an idol, it will be the death of you.
TCS_23, IMO, your post is a very sorry excuse for equivalency.
You might consider being less parochial, and try thinking outside your little, anti-religion box. (You might be surprised at what you’ll find!)
One thing that always grates at me as England collapses to the Muslim onslaught is that one of the Queen’s titles is “Defender of the Faith.”
I realize that she is nothing more than a celebrity now; that she has about as much power to rule England as does John Cleese, but I’d still like to see her take a stand and say “This nation has a faith.”
Wow! Thank you so much for your words here, especially since you are not a Christian yourself.
Abe, Good article. All good movements require an internal as well as an external enemy. It is obvious that you have outlined both of these enemies in this article. The only question is who is to lead the movement which will cleanse our society of its poisoners.”If not now, when?”
Thank you for a thoughtful article, Mr. Miller.
A couple of observations based on others’ responses.
(1) I agree with Marc M. Christianity is the only line of defense; because Jesus is the truth. All other religions are false religions. They all require people to live up to some standard to make it into heaven. Christianity claims that you in and of yourself cannot meet God’s standard! But, by believing in Christ’s death to pay for your sins, you are saved and are counted in God’s kingdom. This is incredibly different from all other religions – a paradigm shift in thinking.
(2) There is a sub-theme in the gospels that says not everyone who claims to be a believer in Christ is one, even if they sincerely believe it. There will be some at the judgement that are surprised they haven’t made it into heaven. I think that will include some of all groups of Christians: Protestants, Evangelicals, Catholics, etc.
(3) To those like unknown jane who think that “there is no way Christianity alone could mount a decent defense for everyone”, I’d say that while we will face great difficulty and suffering as believers, we need to be confident that Christ has already won the victory. Our focus should be to show the love of Christ to our enemies and share the gospel with them trusting the Lord will bring some of them into His Kingdom. He has promised to do it, and He is still at work, even in the hearts of Muslims here and in the rest of the Muslim world. As American believers, we are citizens of the United States, yes, but we are also citizens of heaven. And our eternal destiny is that – ETERNAL – even if America ends up on the ash heap of history (I pray we don’t).
But Jesus is imaginary. He had no historical existence. There are no records, witness accounts, or artifacts from his supposed existence. Despite the fact that we have thousands upon thousands of records and letters from that period, he is not mentioned by a single individual in the first century after his death (except in a few forgeries like Josephus in the year 90). How are you going to build a moral system whose validity derives from the divinity of a being invented by man? Jesus is Truth, but Jesus isn’t real. Hmmm. That presents a problem. How can Jesus be absolute Truth, when he didn’t exist? Clearly, Christian ideas are of questionable validity and relevance. They were pushed and created by a bunch of ignorant second century misfits. Why should 21st century America take advice from those people?
Funny how those who seek to dismiss the historical Jesus often condemn as fakes or forgeries the documents that do prove His historical existence. Several documents like Josephus exist but you woud condemn them all as forgeries.
I would mention that all the gospels and letters contained in Scriptue were written in the first century.
Wendy,
Jesus is imaginary? That’s historical ignorance on an insane scale. Not just the Jewish historian Josephus but a number of Roman ones–Suetonius and Tacitus, notably–wrote about Jesus. And the weight of the sheer number of Gospel manuscripts cannot simply be dismissed out of hand because they were written by believers.
You’re really giving Objectivism a bad name by spouting such nonsense. (I speak both as a Ph.D.-level historian and, yes, a Christian.)
Then you are an ignorant Ph.D. Suetonius wrote in the ’50s, and he did not mention Christ. He mentioned “Chrestus,” which was a common slave name. Why could Christ be instigating in Rome in the ’50s? The two Josephus references are forgeries, and he wrote in the ’90s anyway, so you still have no evidence. And what are these supposed Christian texts that survive from the first century? There are none.
Bottom line – there are thousands and thousands of letters and documents from inside and outside Judea in that time. Why are there no contemporary mentions of Christ? No records of his existence at all?
The problem with this essay is that its basic premise – that secularism or atheism lacks absolute moral standards – has already been disproven by the existence of Objectivism, which is an absolutist, atheist, secular total philosophical system, one which forms the ONLY unbreachable intellectual and moral “defense” against the behaviors cited here.
I take offense at the idea that Christendom provides the best, most passionate argument against evils such as slavery, racial discrimination, or terrorism. That is nonsense. Christianity provides no such defense. It merely adapts to whatever culture it finds itself in – historical fact. Ayn Rand gave the most airtight, and passionate, arguments against such things. That is because reason is on her side. She doesn’t invoke the arbitrary whim and authority of imaginary beings to evade having to provide moral justifications. Unlike with Christianity, there can be no public argument on where Objectivism stands on such things. Read her essay “Racism” in The Virtue of Selfishness. There is the moral absolutism cultures need right there.
I am not saying that we can expect the Muslim world to jump immediately to Objectivism, but Americans can certainly start to do so. After all, Americans are the ones who insist that we need some sort of beliefs, principles, and moral standards to deal with the problems of this world. Ayn Rand offers that, and then some people either ignore it or start throwing out excuses why they should not have to live up to her system’s ethics, usually by mischaracterizing her philosophy so they have a lazy pretext with which to dismiss it. Then, in a bizarre turn, they start touting Christianity, which was specifically designed NOT to deal with the problems of this world, but the next.
In all seriousness, I ask you people: What the hades is wrong with you?
I’m not sure I wouldn’t rather have FURRIES infesting the comments than Objectivists. Hell, compared to the latter group, the furries are intellectually wide-ranging, socially adept, self-aware, and rewarding to imagine in flagrante.
Ha ha, we’re taking over, so I won’t deny you your sad reveries for the devil you know.
Except Objectivism is not a complete moral system. Ayn Rand doesn’t admit there being anything wrong with committing adultery, despite the fact that it is a breach of contract and is a malicious act that causes tremendous pain to the victim. It does not consider an unborn child human, despite the scientific fact that it is. A complete morality includes sexual morality and the rights of all the people, not just those who can assert them.
I see infidelity as wrong as well. As for abortion, fetuses are not people. Therefore, they have no rights, and to force women to bear a fetus is an unconscionable negation of morality. Women (and men) are not cattle, contrary to what your religion tells you.
Abraham H. Miller wrote: > I have never seen a Christian blow himself up on a bus full of innocent people, declare holy war on the unbeliever, or stone a congregant for adultery.
Then you, sir, have not seen history, have never heard of the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, Eric Robert Rudolph, Scott Roeder, Matthew and Tyler Williams, Phineas Priests, even Jeremiah Wright and his wack-job ilk whom people in these very comments are, with perfect predictability, declaring “aren’t true Christians” — not unlike the so-called moderate Muslims who declare that Muslim extremists aren’t true Muslims.
The issue, of course, is not Christian-versus-Muslim, as Abraham H. Miller, like so many others, naively purports. The issue is, as usual, faith-versus-reason. And faith of any kind must by definition eventually resort to force.
Which is why James Madison said:
“Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
And: “Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise…. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution” (Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments).
And: “Strongly guarded is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States.”
And John Adams: “The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion” (Article 11, Treaty of Tripoli).
(Link)
And don’t forget the smears that liberals like Whoopi Goldberg spread about Tim McVeigh being a “Christian”. I heard that crap again on a clip from the View where she and another Godless liberal faced off against Bill O’Reilly.
Imagine my surprise as once a Methodist (now far to liberal), now Non-Denominational Christian, (and a descendant of French Huguenots) to turn on the Catholic TV channel after returning from a pilgrimage to Israel and learn that Protestants are still one of the “Great Heresies”. HA! Obviously the author of this wonderful article knows his Christians. It is my hope that sooner than later all Christians and Jews realize that we are in this together.
“Then you, sir, have not seen history, have never heard of the Spanish Inquisition . . .”
It’s always difficult to discuss these matters with someone who hasn’t first done his homework. The Inquisition was a religious fact-finding court, and didn’t engage in the slaughter of innocents. The facts are easily obtained by anyone with access to Wikipedia. It’s now widely known that ~235,000 Jews were expelled from Spain by Ferdinand and Isabella, NOT the Inquisition. The lists are freely available to the public. Perhaps you are confused by the raging battles and deal-making between Christians, Muslims, and Jews in Spain that went on for hundreds of years BEFORE the Inquisition?
Lawrence Davis
You are writing of Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades. Does that mean that you forbid people to defend themselves against the invaders? Spanish Inquisition was aimed at defending the faith during and after Reconquista (there was war with Islamic armies and the Inquisition may be compared to a people fighting a fifth column during II WW).
Crusades were aimed at re-conquering of Christian land. Muslim armies conquered that territory earlier therefore what “Crusaders” did may be compared to what “allies” did during the II WW.
As for the rest, you are scraping the barrel, aren’t you, Lawrence?
Eric Robert Rudolph – ,Rudolph has denied that his crimes were religiously or racially motivated,
Scott Roeder, Scott had suffered from mental illness and killed doctor during the mass -according to you he did it because he was a christian?
Matthew and Tyler Williams, were white supremacist – you mean everything what white supremacists do pertains to Christianity?
Phineas Priests, even Jeremiah Wright….
You are also forgetting the crimes of atheists during 20 century – like the one did by Mao and Stalin. And the crimes of a different monotheistic religion – killing and conquering part of India, destruction of Sassanid empire (Persia), conquering territories of Byzantine empire and so on and so forth.
Mr. Miller is correct but, if anything, does not go far enough. Only Christianity, with its 2.3 billion adherents, can possibly stand up to Islam with its 1.5 billion, on a global scale. (And by “Christian” I include all Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox who believe in the key Christian teaching: the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ to atone for humanity’s sins.) Vapid, increasingly spineless secularism does not stand a chance. Yes, secularists and liberal Jews and Christians will whine about “Crusaders,” conveniently ignoring that jihads have been declared against us for years–so be it. I wrote a piece advocating the geopolitical union of majority-Christian countries, “Resurrecting Christendom,” several years ago: http://hnn.us/articles/47603.html If we don’t all hang together, we’ll certainly all hang together–including those clueless Reform rabbis. By the way: how many secularists and liberal Jews and Christians would rather live under Islamic than Christian rule–a show of hands, please?
I thought so.
My feelings precisely.
Restoring Christendom is absolutely vital, which means restoring the faith first of all to drive the spirit of greatness. That is where ecclesia militans will come in, and the sooner the better. Fearless leaders are wanted, and surely where there is demand there shall be a supply.
Amen!
Rush limbaugh on his show said he was approached by some republican politicians,And they asked him to tone down the pro-life activism on his program.That their wives are making life miserable,for them,and will do worse damage to them unless they seperate themselves,from Pro-life people.look at the failures on social issues,By candidates we believed Would stand for biblical principals.Then look at their wives views,Then it all begins to make sense.From Dwight Eisenhower,Richard Nixon Ronald Reagan,George h.w.Bush,Bob Dole,George w.Bush,To John(patty hearst)McCain.All claiming to be Pro-life,Pro-liberty,Pro-Free Will,Free Enterprise Capitalist.Only One;Ronald Reagan,Was most faithful to his word.The rest were social,and domestic liberals(Moderates)Why?Their wives everyone;Anti-christ,By their very natures.Which like lucifer,Demand,or expect that their will be exalted above God,Above Jesus Christ,Above humanity,above human life,Above human liberty,Above human,and civil rights,equality,and justice for all.And any who dis-agrees,or refuses to submit to their will,And anyone who is inconvenient to their own agendas does not have the right to exist.These liberal political wives,are our leaders #1 advisors;you are naieve to believe differently.When you are voting for a candidate,know the views of their spouses.or nothing changes.This is why the Sara Palin’s,and Michelle Bachmans,are great for Bible believing Christians,And why Establishment Republicans,Hate their guts.as well as Christine O’donnell.Their gravy train,as well as possibly their marriages,and sugar daddy lovers,and hookers,are threatened.as well maybe exposed.Rush got it right from the horses mouths from politicians,in washington d.c. Their fears.These politicians don’t serve their country like our armed forces,They only serve themselves,and the demands of their Anti-Christ,Socialist,Abortion, Homosexual,and pedophile worshipping spouses.Afew tips to the wise.Any time you hear a republican say.We need a Bigger party,and not a purer party.Thats political Spin for GOD,and JESUS CHRIST,not welcome here.I Believe in LUCIFERS LAW,or my spouse does.Like All smooth talking liars,They will tell you one thing but always govern,judge,and legislate as a liberal,on social,and domestic issues.When they say if i’m elected i’ll get rid of the partisanship,and incivility,and work with my colleagues accross the aisle.Thats political spin for i’ll sell my country down the drain to the highest bidder.When you hear these establishment republicans using the same talking points,and siding with progressive liberals,Calling true conservatives,Radical,and Extreme They are really Saying,Jehova GOD and JESUS CHRIST,are Extreme,And we are their dangerous believers.Jesus said of them their is no light in them.and they will persecute us as they did jesus,Know them by their fruits;In the last days they will call good evil,and evil good;jimmy joe;”The Liarfryer”
According to the world system, the problem with Jews, and Christians is they will not pray to any other G-d, but the G-d of Noah, Abraham, and Moses. Of couse, those Christians pary to G-d the Father in Christ’s name which bothers some Jews. These folks are not welcome into the New World Order.
Morality is what the above bring to the world, and the world hates morality. The problem the world has in pushing those two groups to conform to secular, or pagan beliefs is a lot of those Christians are armed to the teeth. They believe G-d gave them the right to defend themselves, friends, and family. Those nasty Christians, in the millions, cling to their religion, and weapons, and have no problem calling the religion of peace, a death cult of blood worshiping a false moon god.
I think those Christians are done turning the other cheek.
Reformed Trombonist; You got it. The crisis in Catholic education, which is much discussed among Catholic educators, is the open hostility to church teaching and Christian morality. Increasingly, Catholic institutions have become more secular emulating the politically correct nonsense of the elite secular institutions. As fewer and fewer priests and teachers committed to Catholic culture teach on campus, these institutions like those rooted in Protestant Christianity in earlier centuries lose their Christian base. As more and more progressives find a position in the Catholic institutional organizations, these organizations–like those in the Jewish community–become bastions of progressive and leftist thought and lose their religious identity. My issue about Catholic education is not its Catholicism, but the attenuation of Catholicism in the pursuit of anomic, valueless, moral equivalency taught in secular institutions under the religion of multiculturalism. A society must begin with a value orientation. For this society it is the Judeo-Christian ethic. We can disagree on nuances and theology, but it should be remembered that an anomic society is ripe for totalitarian exploitation. A society grounded in Judeo-Christian principles–however defined–is not. The threat from Islam is not its sword, but the insidious attempt to replace our values with theirs. Europe lost its footing and its ability to defend itself because it lost its Christianity. Today, there are more people attending mosques in much of Europe than churches. Can Sharia be far behind? And when Islam becomes a demographic majority or plurality, there will be no tolerance for Western values. The crisis in Catholic education is not its Christianity, but the hostility of its professor to its Catholicism. To those who raise the abuses of Christianity’s past, let us remember we no longer live in the Middle Ages. The unique social and religious tolerance of America grew out of a tolerant Protestant Christianity that was replicated by a Catholic church that embraced, over time, the political and social culture of America.
Mr. Miller,
If you have the time, I would value your take on my comment and on my linked article.
Thank you Mr. Abraham H. Miller. I thoroughly enjoyed your article and now am wondering when it will be that our American Christian churches will decide to send missionaries to Europe.
My Christian Church has over 50,000 missionaries out at any given time including all nations that will allow us to bring His truth to their population, including Europe.
Thanks for your response to my response, Mr. Miller. I enjoyed your article and posted a link to it on FB. I’m sorry you are not a believer, but will pray that the Lord will grant you that.
There seem to be some similarities between what is happening in Catholicism as what happened in the Protestant denominations starting maybe a little more than a hundred years ago. Reformed Christians (I am one) have said that any Christian sect that is not consciously and steadfastly reformed eventually becomes liberal. I’m not sure that Reformed churches are immune to that impulse (look at the United Church of Christ, for example) but it does serve as a warning for us “religionists”, as the liberals now trendily call us: keep focused on the Truth or lose first your focus, then your relevance. The left wing of Protestantism is little more than a liberal pressure group that uses God to decorate their political agenda with a soupcon of authority. They don’t like it when the Right does that, but as usual the indignation only flows in one direction.
A friend of mine, best described as a libertarian agnostic, always just stops short of advocating a society without religious faith. For him, the problem is that no society has ever seemed able to sustain itself for very long without religious faith. What has always distinguished the West, since ancient Greece, is the idea that those who fight and die for their country have a stake in winning the battle other than personal survival. Freedom of religion was one of those things worth such a sacrifice. Like you, I see little chance of people being willing to suffer, fight, and die for freedom from religion. Post-Christian Europe is doomed — either they revive their Christian faith, or they go gentle into that good dhimmitude and their dwindling handful of kids get sent to Muslim school.
Christianity is one of the most tolerant religions today. To Christians it makes no sense to force someone into accepting their faith, as it would not be legitimate FAITH, but only a reaction of fear. Yes, it is important to Christians to influence law and policy to the point of protecting basic freedoms. However, I would dare say that a muslim would be safer living in a Christian community than any other place in the world. The most deplorable affront to their religion may be that there children might be invited to a Sunday School picnic or they may be subjected to hearing a gospel quartet sing in the neighborhood park. They would not be forced to eat pork BBQ nor would they be expected to participate in a Christmas lights contest.
“The great irony of our time is the Christianity the Left scoffs at will emerge as the first-line of defense for the West.”
Excellent! Simply excellent, Abe. Bravo!
Jesus said no one comes to the father,But through him. IN Matthew;Jesus said call no one; Father,Rabbi’,nor Master.For their is only one Father,Rabbi’,and MASTER;That begins dis-crediting most Religions.As well all liberation theology Religions.Which ordains Government,and Not the creator,The giver and taker of substanance,Equality,Rights,Life,Liberty,Winners,and Losers,Blaspheming,And Trafficking In Gods Name.Involuntary Servitude/Slavery;The JUDEO-CHRISTIAN,principals,will not be moved,and in the end we win,and false prophet,false doctrine religious ideaologies,like these lose.unfortunetely most liberal,christians,and jews,like liberal blacks,women,and all other loyalist to satan’s Leftist political party.Never seem to learn;god keeps sending them prophets,and an excape plan, but all they want to do is Crucify/persecute,Decieve,and Defame. Then build their own version of paradise without god.Build their own false idol golden calfs.government,money,power prominence,and celebrities,to worship.to satisfy their lust,obsessions,and addictions;*”FALSE GODS”May god have mercy;Jimmy Joe;”The Liarfryer”
You would be a lot more convincing but for the wall of text.
No, Judaism is the first line of defense for the West albeit a thin one and is being breached with the help of those behind this line of defense. Israel, a tiny country, is the focus of this concerted attack — ganged up by many countries, terror groups, and the so-called “humanitarian” organizations — so much more than any single country in the world.
Christianity can either help reinforce this line of defense or watch it from the sideline, knowing that it’ll be next.
Wallace,
As much as I admire and support Israel and the Jewish people, there are only about 15 Jews in the entire world–compared to 2.3 BILLION Christians. Islam can only defeat Christendom if Christians give up.
And that’s not going to happen.
First line of defense is Israel in every respect, or at least an Israel that throws off the shackles of trying to gain acceptance from an often hateful world and stands up with full Jewish strength and belief in Hashem. Because the Torah really has all the truth that any life needs.
I do not understand what ‘Christianity’ is other than a religion that has morphed and turned many times. What it is, like with other faiths and belief systems, seems a function of the personal view and strain, but I recoil when I read comments – including sometimes from Jews – about how what is needed is a new Crusade. I look at Ann Coulter and compare her quick brain and acid tongue and knowledge compared to the wisdom of really great rabbis (and I am sure, religious figures from other traditions), and I just don’t get it. I would appreciate some honesty from Christians when they insist on Jews converting to become ‘completed Hebrews.’ What arrogance – and no number of Soroses, Marxes, etc., change this.
Christianity is not completed Judaism. It is some kind of mix of Jewish concepts, state religion (historically) of diverse – and often quite strange – European nations, and some very pagan concepts. Jesus did not fit the Jewish criteria for a messiah – and that is where the criteria come from. They did not come from a religion that did not exist. The messiah is not a man-G-d, born of supernatural circumstances and capable of flying around, etc.
What I find remarkable is that the dreamy and pacifist notions that are attributed to Jesus are attached to the political belief systems of men and women who are fire-breathing conservatives. Looks to me like this is Christianity of another sort; merged with politics it is actually more realistic in terms of human nature.
That said, there is no doubt that a truly Christian America – one based on the ‘Ten Commandments’ (and thus Torah-lite) would be a good start, just as Israel would improve immeasurably if Torah thinking would be voluntarily adopted by more Israelis (and not presented in the form of political coalitions).
Who, then, spoke to the Prophet Zachariah, saying, “I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and petition; and they will look on Me whom they have pierced, and mourn for Me as one mourns for an only son.”
Sorry: 15 “MILLION.”
“Behold I am with you always, until the end of time,” says the Lord Messiah, the Crowned Prince of Israel to His Church. To you, Israel, recall the Covenant the Lord made with your ancestors. Recall the promise of the Prophets, and know that God has visited His People. Repent, therefore, for the Lord who loves you is waiting for you, if you’d only hear His voice. From Heaven shall come your deliverance, and you shall call on the Lord’s Salvation.
We need not repent. You and all Christians need to beg forgiveness for the horrors perpetrated against Jews ‘in the name of Christ’ – acts which by no means included or defined all or most Christians. Nonetheless, they occurred, and could not have been carried out by people who had been delivered from sin and confusion. What a flawed faith is Christianity that Eichmann’s priest could have and did provide him conversion or absolution (I do not know the correct term) and, when asked, stated baldly that all of Eichmann’s Jewish victims would remain lost, without salvation. This alone is evidence of the inherent problems of your ‘truth.’
Many Christians need to beg forgiveness for those sins and many others, as do non-Christians such as yourself. If you do not believe you or your ancestors or philosophical brothers or whatever groups you associate with have ever sinned, welcome to hubris, another sin.
Regarding Eichmann, what you’re saying is that some sins are so great there can be no forgiveness, which is the same as saying Jesus’ sacrifice was only but so powerful, and no more. If the Lord opened Eichmann’s eyes to his own sin (the same way he opens the eyes of other Christians), it wouldn’t be very pleasant for him — how would you like to have those sins on your conscience? But the Lord is capable of forgiving such sins, if only we turn to him. To say otherwise is to set yourself up as God, see above, hubris.
Larry,
Like you, I am annoyed by (fellow, in my case) Christians who come onto sites and simply regurgitate Scripture. But lumping them in with Nazis is simple slander. And your imputation of collective guilt is ridiculous on both the historical and theological levels. I am a Christian who was born in 1960, raised Southern Baptist, “converted” to Lutheranism. Pray tell how I am responsible for what the Nazis did before I was born? It’s frankly stupid attitudes like that which allow the true modern threat–Islam–to make headway.Answer the question I posed in my earlier post, honestly: would you rather live under Christian or Islamic rule here in the early 21st century? If you answer Islamic you are either a fool or mendacious.
I have a question to ask you. If the Christian faith is so bad, why is it in for example, in places such as in the “global south” growing so fast? Could it not be because of the message of the Gospel of Jesus.
Larry in the Silicon, Check the SHOFAR FTP Archives. “Eichmann’s priest” was not a Catholic priest but an Evangelical minister, who believed there is no salvation for anyone not believing in Christ. Eichmann was born in Cologne to Evangelical parents. The minister, Mr. Huff, failed to convince Eichmann, who said he believed in God, but not in Christ. He also rejected the minister’s belief that non-Christians are lost. Please don’t confuse Catholic beliefs with those of an individual Evangelical minister. No conversion or absolution was delivered. Eichmann rejected Christianity, as did Hitler, Stalin, and all the other monsters of the twentieth century.
Thus saith the Lord to the Prophet Ezekiel, “Son of man, speak thus to your countrymen: When I bring the sword against a country, and the people of this country select one of their number to be their watchman, and the watchman, seeing the sword coming against the country, blows the trumpet to warn the people, anyone hearing but not heeding the warning of the trumpet and therefore slain by the sword that comes against him, shall be responsible for his own death. He heard the trumpet blast yet refused to take warning; he is responsible for his own death, for had he taken warning he would have escaped with his life. But if the watchman sees the sword coming and fails to blow the warning trumpet, so that the sword comes and takes anyone, I will hold the watchman responsible for that person’s death, even though the person is taken because of his own sin.”
Like the Assyrians and Babylonians of ancient times, the Nazis were wicked heathens, but they had become a plague upon the Israelites because of Israel’s sins. Had they heeded the warning to return to their ancient homeland, they would have lived. The Nazis stand guilty of their murders, but that does not absolve the Jews of their own sins. The same Lord who gave the above warning also said thus, “As I live, says the Lord God, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked man, but rather in the wicked man’s conversion, that he may live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! Why should you die, O house of Israel?”
These passages are recorded in the 33rd chapter of the Book of the Prophet Ezekiel- look it up for yourself if you do not believe me. Is it that hard to accept that Eichman’s victims perished because of their own guilt, while Eichman himself could still repent and be saved?
A fantastic and enlightening article.
Yeah…just what we need: substitute one irrationality with another.
Ah, Sharpshooter–the drive-by sarcastic, yet illogical, cut.
1) If you think Christianity is so “irrational,” try reading such “irrational” geniuses as Augustine, Aquinas, Newton, Pascal, Kierkegaard and C.S. Lewis–then get back to us.
2) Assuming arguendo that what you say is true: one “irrationality” promotes beheadings, wife-beating, pederasty and killing of non-believers; the other promotes loving your neighbor as yourself and taking care of widows and orphans.
You figure it out. If you’re rational, that is.
“We need not repent.”
Well, I can’t say anything about you per se, but anyone I have ever known slips up from time to time and needs to work on their flaws, including myself. Although I do know some people who have done a better job of things than I have, there are times when they have to repent, say they are sorry and try harder.
“You and all Christians need to beg forgiveness for the horrors perpetrated against Jews ‘in the name of Christ’ – acts which by no means included or defined all or most Christians.”
I know what you mean and I would do it right here, on this spot, if that is what it takes to save their souls, my soul, from the crimes against humanity and horrors that were commited against the Jewish people, and any/all others. No problem, I am very sorry. I couldn’t be more sorry. I think that someone got here prior to my post though and must have intervined on my behalf long ago, in prayer, because I know I can fight for you. Anyway, please forgive us.
“Nonetheless, they occurred, and could not have been carried out by people who had been delivered from sin and confusion.”
Precisely my thoughts.
“What a flawed faith is Christianity that Eichmann’s priest could have and did provide him conversion or absolution (I do not know the correct term)”
Uh, well, I don’t know that an other human being could state that with any sort of conviction. I know some very decent people who don’t feel so assured.
“…and, when asked, stated baldly that all of Eichmann’s Jewish victims would remain lost, without salvation. This alone is evidence of the inherent problems of your ‘truth.’”
Yeah, but this priest shouldn’t have been asked because I doubt he could know every detail of God’s plan.
Elliot: You are not looking at the whole picture. One cannot throw away Jesus because of Judas. One cannot expect perfection from any human group. If Christians aimed at perfection and erred… fine you made your point. Communists aimed at a “new man” and could not produce one, but in the process they killed millions (Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Pol-Pot…) Muslims did not even aimed at perfection, their book clearly advocates the killing and terrorizing of others, and the submission of the state to religion.
Sure there are many like Eichmann, Hitler, “Father” Geoghan, and many more we don’t know of. But there are also Schweitzer, Mr. Teresa, John of the Cross, Paul of Tarsus, Justinian, Georges Lemaître, and many, many others.
If you have a problem with Christianity, don’t be a Christian. No one is going to declare jihad on you. Just don’t enjoy the shade of the very tree you are cursing at. Western Civilization is essentially Christian. All the killings and persecutions that the misguided and ignorant have perpetrated in the name of Christ are nothing compared with the bloodbath unleashed from the French Revolution onward all the way to the Gulags.
It does not take much to see this. You only have to read history… I am absolutely sure you have no idea of how many Christians were killed atrociously before the Edict of Milan, during the Muslim push to reach Vienna, or the Muslim capture of Jerusalem. How many were killed during the October Revolution, the 28 million Stalin dispatched, the 96 million that died under Mao’s regime, the two million that perished under Pol Pot…
In the meanwhile nearly 800,000 Jews are sneaked out of Europe by Giuseppe Roncalli and Eugenio Pacelli. I am sure you are aware of that “crime” also.
I am not trying to start a row here. I only ask you to try to be honest. No one ever claimed that every Christian is a supernaturally good person. But Christianity gave you the civilization you live in. If it is so bad, you may want to move to Medina and give it a try.
Thanks for your reply but I believe you misunderstand me. I am not a writer like so many here. I am often unable to articulate my position as well as others.
Of course there have been good Christians-throughout history.I’m not so worried about them.
In addition,I am cursing no one. I struggle to obey God, but I have no intention of giving up on myself, or Christ. By the way, I personally know/have known several people who devoted their lives to Christ in every move they made. They were great examples for me in my attempt to emulate, and as a reminder of what it really means to obey God.
I really just wanted Larry to know that I understand how he feels at times and not just jump in with criticism of the resentment he has a perfect right to feel. He also has the right to question and have his questions answered. He didn’t claim to be any sort of scholar and you rightly spotted that I am not either.
I am very sorry about what has happened to the Jewish people throughout history. I am very sorry that the US turned them away at our shores.There were so-called Christians among those who denied them safety. That hurt everyone, and to this day it still saddens us that we lacked the courage expected of us.The sins of our fathers’ can be revisited on us and fill our hearts with regrets we cannot remedy after the fact. That is just a fact of life.
I will not give a pass to any (not even myself)who act wrongly just because there are those who accomplished worse. What is wrong with confessing our failures ? What is wrong in admitting that there have been/still are those, professing to be Christians,who were truly bad actors and caused suffering ? In fact, I don’t understand how we go about redeeming ourselves or even repent if we can’t admit those times where we went wrong.
Finally, we don’t have to be perfect, very few are, but still, we should give it a try.
Elliot:
There is plenty of acknowledgment of our own faults in the Christian camp. However we don’t have to plead guilty to imaginary or malicious accusations, or to surrender what we have created to a bunch of self-appointed critics and moralistic highbrows, or to the descendants of 7th century savages. The Shoah was not executed in the name of Christ, we did not kill Ghandi, we did not slaughter the millions of victims of Communism, we did not create an economy dependant on slave labor (Gulags). We stood against all that and more. Europeans used to entertain themselves watching orphans, widows and convicted men being gored and eaten by beasts in the Roman Circus. It was Christ who ended all that (plus a whole bunch of other awful practices like infanticide). If we are going to judge Christ harshly let us get a little historical perspective. Otherwise we are just uttering nonsense.
OCCIDENTAL JIHADIST: I apologize if this does not link directly. I keep trying to respond to the comments, and I end up in the reply section. I quickly read the link, and it is an interesting idea. But I would argue that it is not feasible without a wide range of national Christian revivals in the West that would create a reaffirmation of both Christianity and the political tolerance that evolved from Christianity in America. Such movements, once established, could find a basis for a cross national purpose, but this is fragile ground. Nationalism was a great unifier, until we let the multi-culturalists destroy it by equating all nationalism with fascism. We need –as the article suggests–a merging of Christianity with national purpose. There are indeed moderate Muslims, but Islams is not a moderate religion, certainly not in the form spreading across the globe. Today, the difference between so called moderate Islam and radical Islam is means, not ends. I believe the leaders of CAIR when they say Islam is not in America to be another religion but to be the only religion. How much farther would other totalitarian inspirations of communism and fascism gone if they could have hid under the cloak of religion. When the Archbishop of Canterbury says that the Islamization of Britain is inevitable and the British should begin making compromises with Sharia, he has given up his right to hold office, for he believes so little in his own religion. I do not believe that a resurgence of Christianity means a crusade, albeit it might eventually, but I believe a resurgence of Christianity would make the culture resistant to Sharia and to the Dawa (spread of the faith) of Islam. The Saudis have invested billions in spreading their Wahhabi belief system. Universities like common street walkers without morals have taken the money and let the enemy in the gates to proselytize. I have heard lectures from members of the Middle East Studies program at Berkeley, and they are useful Muslim fictions being passed off as scholarship. The best way to defeat a mass movement wrought out of anomie and built on the mindless loss of identity and self destruction is to create a movement built on identity and the embrace of life. Christianity, as someone said and I stand corrected, is the ONLY line of defense.
the people who believe in tikkun olam and benevolent global hegemony have lied america into wars that have caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of muslims.
what’s up with that?
take your jewhater ass back to the WADI you did crawl from Muz
the fight against islamization is NOT a christian concern, it is the concern of the free world. i will not live under the christan god laws any more than i will live under the muslim god laws. start a christan crusade and the free world will cast you out along with the muslims
It is Western Civ. with its Judeo-Christian backbone that has provided the freedom for people like you to entertain us:
cue up Groucho in Horsefeathers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtMV44yoXZ0.
It is Western Civ. with its Judeo-Christian backbone that has provided the freedom for people like you to entertain us:
You mean “western civilisation that was birthed from Greek tradition and embellished upon by the Romans and Saxons and so on.” That western civilisation managed to survive the christian cult is testament to the strength of the REAL backbone. The christians managed to set civilisation back by centuries, but the enightenment was able to finally throw that ugly shackle to the side. The crown jewel of secularism was the US government.
The overweening nonsense displayed on pages here is hubris to an astonishing degree: “yes, you can thank we christians for your success.” I thought your bible taught humility. Yeah… you’re a typical christian, all right. I’ll bet you take credit at your job for the work that others do as well. It would certainly be consistent with the character displayed here.
Christians know that they will be dispised by the world. Real Christians will be able to withstand this intolerance. It is expected.
I have always looked at it this way. How often do you hear someone say, “Oh Budda!” or “Oh Mohammed” when they are angry or want to curse. They usually say, “Oh Jesus Christ”. Why would they say this? It is because there is no other name that has any power. There is no other name that the devil cares to spend time destroying.
Take heart my brothers and sisters. Greater is He who is in me than he who is in the world.
There is an anecdote from the time of the French Revolution. I believe it was Voltaire who runs into a Catholic priest walking down the street. The priest was wearing the garb of a wood mill worker. Jokingly Voltaire asked the priest “So, what is the Carpenter doing?” (obviously alluding to Christ) and the former priest responded “He makes coffins for his enemies.” Voltaire went to die a convert to Catholicism in his death bed. The French Revolutionaries ended all dead or in the gutter. The Church still stands today. Long is the list of those who set their minds to kill the Christian Church: the Roman Caesars Nero, Domician, Trajan, etc. the French Illuminists, Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin… just to name a few. They are nothing but dust now.
Today Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world.
Fear not, little flock.
Except Voltaire couldn’t bring himself to convert. Oh, yes, he recanted his blasphemes, but he wasn’t able to bring himself to pray, nor to renounce his sins.
Anonymous:
There are witnesses who affirm and others that deny Voltaire’s conversion. The point however is that even someone like Voltaire could repent and be received as a brother.
Hey, man. What do you mean: “nominal Christians or even Catholics”???? No major Protestant denomination can claim to have adhered to Christian teachings anywhere nearly as well as the Catholic and Orthodox Churches have. How’re those fruitcake bishops workin’ for you, Episcopalians? And catch on to the #1 lesson of history — the ones who are most willing to kill for their (fill in the blank) are the probable short-term winners and the guaranteed long-term winners in any struggle. We abolished the Ottoman Empire in 1918, but why not Mohammedanism as well. It’s been an unmitigated, non-stop plague on the earth for 1,300 years.
I like your proposal. The Nazis were no fun either and in the end we had to put them in the right place. Six feet under.
yeah… but what happens if jesus doesnt show up after you’ve killed a billion people?
and given christian end times scenarios, how are you gonna get rid of the jews?
will you have to give god a little hand in wiping out jews…? …it’s god’s will, isnt it? …you’d just be doing god’s will by killing jews, along with the muslims.
.
this thread is pretty comical, jews pandering to christians, who pander back at the jews, while christian end times require the extinction of jews.
sane people have become underdogs.
the underdog
http://drop.io/groundresonance1/asset/underdog-mp3
You never get things right. The Christian “end of times” eschatology requires
1) the CONVERSION of the Jews (voluntary, not forced)
2) the arrival of Jesus
3) the casting of the BEAST and the FALSE PROPHET into Hell
Christian theologians are not very sure what the Beast and the False Prophet are supposed to represent but dare I say by now we are getting a pretty good idea… And by the way the casting into Hell is not done by us. Our God can defend Himself and He does the job through his holy angels. We just get to watch them fry.
No one needs to kill any Jews. As a matter of fact I like them, as I have a natural inclination to like intelligent people and dislike nitwits and hatemongers like, for example, Hitler or Squinty the Nuclear Shortie.
Since I am teaching you a bit of basic Christian theology I would like to correct a serious error in the Koran: the Christian Holy Trinity is NOT God, Jesus and the Virgin Mary (in 5:73 and 4:171) but rather God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost.
I thought you should know. It has been a pleasure to contribute to your education. Ham sandwich?
richard perle, paul wolfowitz and bill kristol are quaking in their boots in fear of jesus’ return… but they’re happy to encourage any christian lunacy that can be manipulated into support for israel…
…unless, of course, those guys have written israel off years ago, and are only using israel for cover as they loot america.
i gots to admit, though, that it’s a pretty christian attitude to advocate killing a billion people.
“I like your proposal. The Nazis were no fun either and in the end we had to put them in the right place. Six feet under.”
nice
You are insane.
there’s so many different flavors of christianity that christians dont know if they’re afoot or horseback.
there are factions of you, though, who can be manipulated into supporting israel in hopes of exterminating jews… a theory that jews are only too happy to exploit, seeing as how they’ve got their own little version of end times, in which everybody, presumably including christians, bows down to the jewish messiah and tikkun olam proceeds.
radical christians are duck soup for secular zionist jews, too, who believe the whole works is a crock except for its value in rallying support for israel.
it would be a good thing for you to dig around into the timing of the catholic pederast scandals.
do you think it’s a coincidence that the scandal emerged, after decades, just as the pope was voicing objections to the iraq war?
Our *only* bulwark against Islamism is a belief that the natural rights of the individual are paramount within the political sphere. Allow that to break down, and it’s a toss up if we end up as Christian Socialists (we’ve had some close calls) or Islamists (as may happen to Europe). Either would be a complete failure of the American experiment.
If we consistently and without compromise protect the individual, natural rights of man – as a result of our understanding the foundation of rights in the nature of man as we exist (created by god or not), then religion becomes irrelevant to insuring freedom. Not coincidently, this means protecting religious freedom, a characteristic of rights which is not intrinsic to a basis of rights founded in religion.
Although I doubt it matters to many people clicking ‘like’ on this one, to think that one faith – beliefs accepted without evidence – can be a bulwark against another faith, is completely irrational. You can just as easily – and for just as few reasons – choose to be an Muslim tomorrow as you have chosen to be Christians today. This actually is something which is being deliberately exploited by our enemies as they recruit operatives within our borders through religious conversion.
There is no doubt that Christianity, as practiced today in most corners of the world (there are still a few less savory pockets left), is much less of a threat to individual rights than Islam. And there is no doubt that the Left in the west unfairly attacks and discriminates against Christians… But duh! If they were sensible people, honest with themselves, as with others – and actually wanted to protect freedom… Then they wouldn’t be lefties!
The people who claiming that Judeo-Christian principles can defend us against religious threats are missing an important point: North America, for two centuries, had been a refuge from the wars and violence of the Reformation. While almost all of the Founders were Christians, and most were even protestant, they embraced and codified the radical concepts that the authority of government is derived from the consent of the governed, and that government should by conducted by people subject to man’s law for the purpose of preserving man’s unalienable natural rights. These principles represented an enormous break with the Judeo-Christian tradition of establishing dominion over men by the divinely selected with the authority of and on behalf of God to serve His purposes.
Not coincidently, these concepts are explicitly rejected by Islamists, and this rejection is why they are a threat to our freedom. A Buddhist, Confucian, Atheist, Christian, or whatever-ist who rejects these central principle of our founding is just as much a threat to our freedom as an Al Queda operative.
israel was a bad idea right from the start… at least, einstein thought so.
so, if israel is such a bad idea, we got to wonder if secular jews in the diaspora will try to salvage the situation by sacrificing israel in some horrendous false flag attack that can be blamed on people in the neighborhood who just happen to have lots of oil.
israel is tearing jewishness apart… we got prominent israelis calling for all jews to abandon their morals in defense of jewishness, except this guy, dror, seems to equate israel with jewishness, which aint necessarily so, seeing as how jews were around for thousands of years before israel came into being.
so we got this guy saying jews should abandon their morals, which is offensive to some jews who’d just as soon hang onto their morals, thank you.
so israel is starting to stink, and what better way to recover sympathy for jews than to destroy israel?
anyhow, what it boils down to, is: the average jew is almost as fat, dumb and happy as the average american… and all of them are easy marks for the predators who’ve exploited 50 years of holocaust propaganda to become exempt from criticism.
it’s unlikely that those predators give a fig about israel or jews or jewishness or anything else except stacking up enough loot to hide out until the dust settles.
and the absolute last thing we need is a bunch of ditzy christians like Catino saying we oughta exterminate muslims.
True, but the question is “Christianity: First Line of Defense for the West? Like it or not, the West was founded on Judeo-Christian foundation and that makes Israel part of the West. Moreover, I didn’t say that Judaism was the sole line of defense protecting the West; it is, however, the first line of defense. It is the outer line that bears the brunt of the attacks right now. The most major attacks on the second line of defense (Christianity) right now is not even done by the Islamists, it’s done by the politically correct far left that turns things upside down and weakens Christianity from the inside.
there’s no such thing as “christianity”.
you got hagee, who wants such a shit sandwich that jesus comes back.
then you got the pope, who objected to the iraq war, and was punished for his sins by 24/7 coverage of his pederastic priests for months on end.
the center is not holding, so we can blow it all up and start over again… and it’s likely, however much we blow up, that jesus is gonna be AWOL, and the deathwish christians will be left standing in the rain with their dicks in their hands.
meanwhile, if you have to prove that christianity is a superior religion by killing billions of people, i got to say it’s no goddamned wonder christianity is in such bad shape.
You don’t make any sense.
Huh??
#60 was intended as a rebuttal to Occidental Jihadist’s reply (October 18, 2010 – 7:12 pm) following mine at #46.
Why wasn’t it nested with the rest even though I hit “reply”?
Wallace,
Got it. I think we largely agree. I just think that Israelis and Israel’s ardent supporters are folling themselves that the tiny, beleaguered Jewish state will defeat Islam-that’s OUR job and responsibility.
And I thnk that those fellows in the 101st, 82nd and all those MEUs in Iraq and Afghanisstan might also be deemed the “front line of defense”–right???
“Fooling.” Damn HP keyboard.
Not to take anything away from these brave men’s accomplishments, but they are more like reinforcements. The modern state of Israel has been fighting wars since its founding in 1948. Afghanistan and Iraq wars broke out after 9/11. If you even go back further in history, the Crusade was a response of the Christian kingdoms after the sacking of the ancient state of Israel. They are always the first to bear the attacks.
Even as reinforcements, the politically correct element in the West prevents the correct analysis of the problem that resulted in strengthening the Islamic doctrines at the expense of the real equality for their minorities, e.g. allowing clauses in the new constitutions to affirm the supremacy of Islamic laws. Here is a question for you: Is the life of Christians, Jews and other minorities better after the involvement of the US and EU? Judging from the exodus of the Christians from Iraq and Palestine, the answer is no.
Religion is the root of all evil. That includes Christinanity.
“Christinanity” (sic) is it the worship of Christina with inanity? Is evil spelling necessary to pontificate your ignorance? Thank for making us look good in comparison.
“The kind of Christian . . . that believes virulently in prayer.” Virulently?
Catholicism, the last acceptable prejudice.
Catholicism, real Catholicism is as hated as real protestant Christianity. They should be included as well.
The liberals will do anything to bring down the church, both from outside and within.
TO ALL CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS, INDEPENDENTS AND PATRIOTIC MEMBERS OF THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT:
GREETINGS! I AM A SIMPLE PERSON AND A HUMBLE SINNER AT THAT; BUT I’M CONFIDENT THAT BY IMPLORING OUR LORD GOD ALMIGHTY TO BLESS ALL OF YOU FOR THE EXPRESS PURPOSE OF RESTORING HONOR, DECENCY AND CHRISTIANITY TO THE WOEBEGONE STATUS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, GOD WILL HEARKEN TO, AND (HOPEFULLY, HOPEFULLY) HEED THE ANGUISHED CRIES OF MINE RESTLESS SOUL.
THIS THEN IS MY PRAYER:
O LORD, BLESS YOUR CHRISTIAN SONS AND DAUGHTERS AS THEY VENTURE FORTH TO DO POLITICAL BATTLES WITH DEMOCRATS, COMMUNISTS, MARXISTS, SOCIALISTS, LEFTISTS, LIBERALS, PROGRESSIVES AND OTHER DARK, EVIL FORCES WHO WOULD DESTROY AMERICA BY WANTONLY IMPOSING THEIR GODLESS IDEOLOGY AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL POLICIES UPON ALL AMERICANS.
DEIGN TO MAKE VICTORIOUS ALL DECENT, CONSERVATIVE AND CHRISTIAN CANDIDATES EVERYWHERE AND KEEP THEM OUT OF HARM’S WAY BY HOLDING THEM IN THE PALM OF YOUR DIVINE HANDS.
ALL THESE THINGS I HUMBLY ASK OF THEE O LORD IN THE MIGHTY NAME OF JESUS, AMEN!!!
God I love Pajamas Media. It’s the only news and opinion source I can almost always agree with and which discusses opinions and ideas I thought nobody else cared about.
I’m actually a former hardcore militant left-wing atheist and am now a theist at best. But I really envy the faith of Christians and consider myself a Christian apologist of sorts. And who knows, maybe I’ll start going to Church when I settle down to raise a family. I’ve always really liked Roman Catholic history and architecture…
I also think that the survival and revival of Christianity in the West is crucial not just to stand up against and resist the creep of islam, but is good for society and our Western civilization in general both politically and culturally.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who’s thinking along those same lines.
Very good article.
In Europe or in Germany, when you say somethings against islam and so on then you could get some trouble. The political left wing and the government or other countrys attack you, with the argumentation, that you are a “Nazi”. I think, we must stand up, Europe/Germany is christian and so should it stay on.
Shockers!
Shock–and awe–are relative terms. Some people can be shocked if they witness a purse-snatching, others won’t be even mildly shocked by a gruesome mass murder. The following have been shockers to at least some individuals:
Abortion Video–Missy Reilly Smith has had two abortions and, like Norma McCorvey, the “Jane Roe” of Roe v. Wade, is now a dedicated pro-lifer. She is also a candidate for the position of D.C. delegate to the House of Representatives, a post long-held in a lockhold by Elizabeth Holmes Norton.
Smith figured that since she had been there and done that that she was well-qualified to acquaint women, teens, and others with something most people either don’t know or don’t want to know, namely what really happens to pre-born babies when an abortion is committed.
Accordingly, as part of her campaign, Smith ran 30 second spots on local television stations in the Washington area which graphically demonstrated the so-called “products of abortion,” an act she rightly terms “murder.” The spots are so graphic that the stations, legally required by federal law to air, felt compelled to introduce with a 15 second disclaimer. YouTube banned them as “shocking and disgusting.”
Smith’s ads come with her impassioned voice over speaking on behalf of both women and babies: “I was told it’s not a baby. They lied to me. They exploited me, she swears. “Then I learned the truth and I’ve suffered for years. And believe me I am angry. My heart has been ripped out. Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Norton–they all support the murder of babies and the abuse of women by abortion. It’s time to make child killing illegal again.”
The spots can be viewed on Smith’s website . . .
(Read more at http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=2376)
Wow. Behold the reason I don’t discuss religion, except for the odd fact that I would only relay and not personalize in the least. To that end…. I’m sure it was an unintentional *slight* mis-statement…but the admonition to kill jews is hadith and not actually in the quran. Moot point, I know, since many muslims consider hadith to have authority that is almost equal to the quran. Just splitting hairs…meaning no harm and not intending to fan any more flames…and certainly not intending to offend Dr. Miller.
Wow. Behold the reason I don’t discuss religion, except for the odd fact that I would only relay and not personalize in the least. To that end…. I’m sure it was an unintentional *slight* mis-statement…but the admonition to kill jews is hadith and not actually in the quran. Moot point, I know, since many muslims consider hadith to have authority that is almost equal to the quran. Just splitting hairs…meaning no harm and not intending to fan any more flames…and certainly not intending to offend Dr. Miller.
Wow. Behold the reason I don’t discuss religion, except for the odd fact that I would only relay and not personalize in the least. To that end…. I’m sure it was an unintentional, and very slight, mis-statement…but the admonition to kill jews is hadith and not actually in the quran. Moot point, I know, since many muslims consider hadith to have authority that is almost equal to the quran. Just splitting hairs…meaning no harm and not intending to fan any more flames…and certainly not intending to offend Dr. Miller.
Glad to see someone so sympathetic toward Christians for a change.
Pretty nice post. I simply stumbled upon your blog and wished to say that I’ve truly loved surfing around your weblog posts. After all I’ll be subscribing to your rss feed and I’m hoping you write once more soon!
I have been exploring for a little bit for any high quality articles or blog posts in this sort of house . Exploring in Yahoo I at last stumbled upon this web site. Studying this info So i?m happy to exhibit that I’ve a very excellent uncanny feeling I discovered just what I needed. I so much no doubt will make sure to don?t disregard this website and provides it a glance regularly.