Cheap Spirits and the Spirit of Freedom
A couple of days ago a friend of mine here in Norway, where I live, posted a note on Facebook in which he sardonically noted: “Think what it’ll be like if it becomes possible for adult people to buy a bottle of red wine…at 5 PM on a Saturday or — horrors! — 7 PM on a weekday.”
Here’s the background. In Norway, all wine and spirits are sold in government-owned stores dedicated strictly to that purpose. The stores — which collectively are known by the cozy name vinmonopolet, or “the wine monopoly” — are open from 10 to 6 on weekdays and 10 to 3 on Saturdays. They’re closed on Sundays and on all sorts of holidays. Around Christmas and Easter they’re closed for days at a stretch.
The number of stores is limited, determined not by market demand but, in good socialist fashion, by government fiat. In Oslo, a sprawling city with a population of over half a million, there are only 26 stores. And the prices — thanks to taxes designed to discourage potential customers and punish those who do buy — are the world’s highest. Norwegians go to Sweden to purchase cheaper intoxicants than they can get at home – and for the same reason Swedes go to Denmark, Danes to Germany, and Germans to Italy.
Norwegians gripe about all this, but their political establishment is in no rush to overturn the system. On alcohol policy, Norway’s major parties, whether on the Christian right, left, far-left, or so-far-left-they’d-give-Castro-the-bends, have traditionally been very comfy bedmates. They all love control, because they’re all sure they know what’s good for Norwegians a lot better than Norwegians do. For the Christian right, demon rum threatens family values; for the left, drinking distracts citizens from their duties to the socialist state.
The outlier here, as in pretty much everything else, is the Progress Party, which routinely introduces initiatives that its opponents warn will lead Norway down the path to (gasp!) “American conditions” — otherwise known as increased individual liberty. My Facebook friend’s post was, in fact, a reaction to the Progress Party’s radical proposal that (double gasp!) opening hours for the vinmonopol be extended to 8 PM on weekdays and 6 on Saturdays.
I felt compelled to comment on my friend’s post. I’d just come back from Baton Rouge, I wrote, and at the Walmart near my hotel you could get a big bottle of vodka for all of 10 bucks. For my part, I’d bought an extra-large bottle of Smirnoff — 1.75 liters — at the Albertsons megastore across the street from Walmart. The tab: $19.99 plus tax, for a total of $21.79.
How much would that have cost at Vinmonopolet? Well, first of all you wouldn’t be able to get that big a bottle of Smirnoff, except maybe on special order. But you could acquire just under the same amount — 1.70 liters — by purchasing two bottles, a one-liter and a 70-centiliter, for a total of NOK 694.80, or $123.27. In short, more than five and a half times the price in Baton Rouge.
What’s more, the Walmart was open 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Out of curiosity, I scoured the place for information about the hours during which alcohol was sold. In Norway, beer is sold in grocery stores, but only until 8 PM — at which time the beer shelves are carefully covered with a sheet, like a Muslim housewife.
Come home, Bruce. You know it’s time. You’ll get your spouse here somehow.
Yes, go home Bruce. Or stop whining.
My, my. Why so touchy?
Ahhh Fnord, the xenophobic Norwegian bigot.
It’s multiculturalism Fnord, you don’t have the right to tell anybody from another culture living in your “shared space” what to do or say. Don’t like it *too bad* you fearful xenophobe.
If anybody went to a lefty blog and told an immigrant complaining about their host country to “go home” you’d condemn them in those very words.
The left are such ugly hypocrites.
I’ve travelled in Norway, Sweden and Demark for business, and the locals shopping preferences can be summarised as follows. Norwegians shop in Sweden, driving up to 200 kilometres, because everything in Norway is so damn expensive. The Swedes all shop in Demark, driving a similar distance, because they think everything in Sweden is so damn expensive. The Danes just get annoyed that Germany isn’t any cheaper
Yep, Louisiana can be disconcerting! I always stop at the first exit off I10 in LA traveling East to get cheap[er] cigarettes and booze. Right next to the liquor store is a drive-thru where you can get Margaritas “to go” in your car!
In spite of all the nanny state intrusions here, I must admit they have very little impact on me being a healthy sort. Except of course at tax time and when I have to renew my driver’s license! Heck I even flew in a private airplane once with a guy who didn’t even have a pilot’s license!
“Never mind that Norway, by some measures, does indeed come out ahead of, say, the state of Louisiana.”
I’d say that Norway comes out ahead of most of our states – and the gauge is not whether or not you can buy whiskey 24/7.
I’ve lived in Norway for along time, and FYI Norway has been selected as the best country to live several times for obvious reason. I doubt the worst public school in Norway will generate pupils like best in Louisiana.
It’s quite relaxing to see all shops close for the night and holidays. Christmas still have the feeling of Christmas, as do the other holidays, when the whole country shuts down to celebrate.
I’d say that the Norwegians have more freedom than we here in the US, The Leader of the Free World. We just don’t comprehend the world outside America.
- Hva er det du jobber med?
- Jeg jobber som oversetter, og jeg er amerikansk og jeg har ingen anelse om Norge. Da gjør sprit butikken åpen?
Tim: If your opinion of the world view outside America is that Americans don’t get it, then why is the first idea that comes into your mind – and which you seem to admire(!) – the Soon To Dominate All Norwegians Via PC In Innumerable Ways??
Longer hours at the ‘vinmonopolet’=Alcohol Shop was probably just an EXAMPLE of how freedom is curtailed because Norwegian Social-Democrats are afraid to admit their power is based on Consistently Taking Small Steps Before We Can Let This Toddler Walk On His Own!!
The only way Norwegians might ‘starve the beast of state’ would be to stop buying products they need, but unfortunately they DO need them—
Only if you shop in Sweden and in ENORMOUS quantities can we household with our income. Those that have no money due to unemployment must continue on welfare/benefits or hock their homes to grab a loan from their bank.. The worst part of it all is that very few industries outside very big state ventures are even established(!), and here the labor unions will secretly decide whether you are a ‘reliable’ worker..
Norway Meet Wisconsin—before Scott Walker set you on a new course!!
“I doubt the worst public school in Norway will generate pupils like best in Louisiana.”
And yet, how much does Norway contribute to the world, technologically, compared to the U.S.?
“It’s quite relaxing to see all shops close for the night and holidays. Christmas still have the feeling of Christmas, as do the other holidays, when the whole country shuts down to celebrate.”
Maybe this is true when living in some parts of many American cities. For that you want me to give up 24/7 booze, or cigarettes, or junk food? So, the U.S. doesn’t have quiet places to “relax” and enjoy the holidays? There are lots. At least we can choose, without our government forcing us to “shut down”.
And if Norway is so free, why are they forced to travel to other countries to buy at a lower cost? You also seem to forget that if not for the U.S. Norway would have to increase their military budget by about 6 times and have a real military instead of playing at being soldiers under the protection of the U.S. Just think how much higher Norway’s taxes would be then.
Actually, we contribute quite a lot. Cutting edge inside oil technology and solar energy, hydropower. Strong weapons industry (Kongsberg VF produces systemsfor the US forces). For 4.5 million people, we have a hell of a lot of competence, actually.
More pertinent to the article, its true that things are very very expensive here. The upturn is that we have very very good wages, thanks in part to very very strong unions. Norwegian top leaders earn next to nothing compared to its US counterparts, the CEO of Statoil, one of the worlds largest oilcompanies nets about 2 million dollars a year. The level of living here is bloody high, most families have house, summerhouse, boat and one or two cars. Unemployment is at 2%. And, when we go abroad, we are suddenly very very rich.
Socialist paradise
‘Socialist paradise’
Yep. Living on oil money, just like the saudis. Then maybe selling herring afterwards.
Oil money, indeed! And without it, they’d be swimming in red ink.
Like everywhere else it’s tried, socialism only works in Norway because someone else is paying the tab.
“I’ve lived in Norway for along time, and FYI Norway has been selected as the best country to live several times for obvious reason.”
Selected by whom? According to what standard? Using what criteria? I can assure you that in economic terms Americans have a much higher standard of living that Western Europeans. We also have vastly superior education and medicine.
“I doubt the worst public school in Norway will generate pupils like best in Louisiana.”
First off, the article was about freedom versus socialism. And America’s K-12 education system is basically a socialist education system. It is run almost entirely by the government and is structured as and has all the same problems as socialized industries everywhere. So your point about America’s K-12 education system actually supports the author’s claim that freedom works better than socialism.
Second, you completely ignore the fact that America has the best higher education system in the world; that we have more people with college and university educations than any other country; that the best students from all over the globe flock to American universities. Foreigners aren’t trying to go to Norway for university – or anywhere else in Western Europe (with the notable exception of Britain) – because your government-run universities are pathetic. This is why America’s adult population is the best educated in the world, which is primarily why we are the most conservative industrialized country (the GOP usually wins a majority of college-educated voters).
Actually, Norway exceeds most places, Including the USA, for how well people live. Health, income, safety… all top notch. Freedom is where they take a nosedive.
Of course Norway is an exception to the rule, the rule that socialism decreases actual wealth. They are such an exception because of all the oil they have. They enjoy two bubbles… oil money like the UAE, and a racial homogeneity which does not include significant numbers of the violent races.
However oil does run out eventually.. even for the Sauds of the north.
Actually more people are moving to study in Norway from Britain. My nephew who is a physics grad has done his post grad in Oslo and is now working in solar cell design near Kristiansand. While there is no doubt that the elite universities of the U.S are still world class the high school system seems to have declined in its world ranking(as has Britains.)From my perspective Norway is an impressive country to visit although it’s so expensive it’s hard to actually buy anything.
So Norway’s a racist state filled with religious nutjobs and bigots whose laws are determined in accordance with the Christian religion?
And you all have the audacity sneer, look down your noses and call the yanks backward.
When is this “socialist paradise” going to take its fair share of the worlds poor like the rest of us have been forced to?
Where’s the embrace of Multiculturalism and mass immigration? We’ve been relentlessly lectured by the “enlightened European left” that any country who doesn’t embrace the third worlds poor is full of bigots and will fail.
Yet the “socialist paradise” of Norway is religious and homogeneous and somehow thrives.
Lol, so many contradictions for the left.
A thoughtful essay indeed.
A friend lived in Panama for five years and had the same epiphany — only the greater freedom was in that Central American country. Panamanians pay for it with a certain amount of chaos, traffic and creaking infrastructure, but personal responsibility trumps lawsuits.
I thought the same thing about Sri Lanka – obviously a Third World country. However, after living there a few months you become comfortable with far less government oversight in your day to day life – with its pros and cons.
I came back through Boston – where I had to pay tolls to get home, and then get used to adjusting all posted prices up 6% so the state can get their cut.
“What’s tragic is that many people who’ve breathed free all their lives just don’t appreciate it, the same way that people who’ve never experienced asthma don’t appreciate being able to, well, breathe. They’re quick to smile on freedom-quashing tyrants, from Castro to the Muslim Brotherhood, because those bullies are alleged to provide decent health care or other social services.”
So true, and what makes it worse is that the Muslim Brotherhood or Castro do NOT end up providing decent health care, either. They give miserable health care that’s designed to basically keep you alive until the state determines it is too expensive to keep you alive, and then you die. I don’t know anybody who would trade their health care here in the United States for what Castro is offering, or Britain, or even Canada. What’s worse, in exchange for this “health care,” you get astronomical taxes and the state telling you what to do and how to live your lives. It’s called control and that’s what the nanny state is all about. It’s also what Obama is all about as well. He wants the Federal Government to have all of the control, from your health care to what you eat to what drugs you can be given to keep you alive. As the old saying goes, there’s no such thing as a free lunch. Under the nanny state, they’ll tell you what lunch you can eat, how to eat it, when to eat it, and how much of it you are allowed to eat. This is progress?
Well, in all sincerity, come on home, Bruce. We need people of your caliber here. The Norwegians have no idea what to do with people like you, but we do. We can certainly use your talents back in the States!
Bruce you are the greatest!
Thank you Bruce!
While I don’t have any idea of how old you are, your judgment on freedom vs. Orderly Life In A Regulated Nation Not Keen On Discarding Control Mechanisms is absolutely correct..
The majority of us Norwegians are apparently happy and Loyal To The Regime as long as they get to enjoy their bread and circuses – proof of which is ongoing until March 5 when the World Ski Championships will end..
The advent of Norwegian Oil Riches starting 1966 has more or less rigged the game in favor of an ever-growing state panoply and various small and medium-sized businesses have shut down altogether..
The importance of being Politically Correct in all news reporting, state and county employment and so on has fostered a culture of sermonizing versus those that would like to strengthen personal courage and responsibility..
My wife and I visited Louisiana in 1997, and came away with fond memories of the diversity and friendliness among the people there. We also got involved in some banter on Southern Life versus the dominant culture of Washington DC, and nobody we met became embarassed or in ‘cahoots’ over differences of opinions.. Such ‘intimate’/risky conversations would NEVER be possible in the dour climate among Norwegians…
“The advent of Norwegian Oil Riches starting 1966 has more or less rigged the game in favor of an ever-growing state panoply and various small and medium-sized businesses have shut down altogether.”
At least the Norwegians are willing to use oil to enrich themselves. In the U.S., it’s the other way around, except for Alaska and Louisiana.
To Jarmo: Sorry, jarmo! Only four-4 per cent of Norway’s oil revenue is used for the nation’s needs such as infrastructure in railroads, maintenance and construction of new arteries along the fjords and forests.
A hefty chunk of this revenue is basically invested in VERY insecure shares in risky industries abroad.. Also some is invested in the housing market – among others in London!
The nation has dire need of dependable energy/electricity to heat homes and run (remaining!) factories in various places, but our Secretary of Energy in his wisdom has for years on end decided to EXPORT electricity abroad each fall – when dams are filled to brim! Later – when cold and winter arrives the state decides on a rationing policy(!) so consumers must pay ‘through the nose’ to heat and cook as everybody needs to do..
Competition among purveyors of electricity was abandoned years ago, so most of the natives now pay the same basic tariff!
Of course, the U.N. will continue to hail Norway as the best country in the world as long as Norwegian tax-payers cannot decide what their taxes should be used for! Meanwhile, corruption and waste in High Places continues, most Norwegians grumble about unsatisfactory ‘budgetary practices’, but as long as a majority are employed and the state can rake in much of their dough, no ‘revolution’ is likely to occur..
As roads and rail are of standards sixty years behind Sweden there is an OBVIOUS need for improvement just there..
Try again, jarmo!
A couple of weeks ago I offered testimony to a committee of the Maine Legislature in favor of a bill liberalizing fireworks sales essentially on the same grounds. The irony, of course, is that Mainers are pretty free to purchase firearms, chain-saws, ATVs and any number of products demonstrably more dangerous than fire-crackers. In political terms the difference is that there are lots of people devoted to their guns, chain-saws, ATVs, but few who are devoted to fire-crackers. So resistance to regulation and prohibition is feeble.
In the words of George Washington Plunkett the regulators “saw their opportunities and took ‘em.”
I’m guessing that Norway controls fireworks as well.
The real testimony: Firearms, chainsaws, etc. are dangerous but useful. Firecrackers are dangerous and useless. They also create a public nuisance, scare dogs, and come from China. That few inhabitants of Maine are keen on them is a sign of general mental health.
Hmmm … so anyone who disagrees with you has ‘mental health’ issues ?
And anyone who likes fireworks has ‘mental health’ issues ?
Does that make you a ‘dirty bird’ in the eyes of those who DO like fireworks ?
Well, Dirty Bird, just look around on July 4th …. Macy’s spectacular fireworks display … Philadelphia’s, Boston’s…. etc … and down even to small towns.
So, it seems you, with the filthy feathers, are the grump in the minority. Content to sit in your corner, shouting “Bah ! Humbug!” ….
I suggest that you brush up on reading and comprehension skills. Also, looking up what “fallacy” means could be helpful.
Bruce:
You can further horrify your squarehead neighbors by telling them that up until recently in that same horrible American state if Louisiana, specifically the New Orleans area, there existed quite a few daiquiri shops which provided drive-thru convenience for their customers. However, I believe pressure from groups like MADD forced the discontinuance of such customer friendliness under threat of having federal highway funds discontinued. Sic transit gloria.
maybe the people cheering the mullah at a university are the sort who would cheer commercial restrictions. they are the future ” do Untos” and the future bureaucrats, while the ones in Louisiana working the oil rigs and building houses and fishing are supposed to be the “done untos” who should be grateful that someone is looking out for their liver. 25% of the population completes college. That’s the percent that writes the laws, and aspires to lift the other 75% up their enlightened outlook. Newspapers don’t mention the graduates of apprenticeship programs, or millionaires from McDonald’s.
And, well, Louisiana has looser liquor laws than the rest of the nation- settled by drinking catholics, not guilt-sweated dry drunk protestants. it do make a difference.
Also… “Merlin”, (Maryland). Settled BY Catholics FOR Catholics.
Typical Maryland block:
Gas Station, Saloon, Auto Parts store, Liquor store.
skip a block or three, then mix the order of the components above and repeat.
Of course, the joint has gone socialist feral and heretic from the Faith in every other way, what with promoting abortion and legalizing homosexual marriage.
The only way I could live in “Merlin” is if I stayed stinko every waking moment of my life.
(Many “Merliners” DO, you know.)
to Bilgeman, at 12:
I was born in Maryland (carefully pronounced !!), in Montgomery County, to be exact, and that’s a place that has (or had– I don’t live there any more) county-owned liquor stores. Talk about control!!
This was a very interesting article. I think I’m glad that there are real inspections to make sure that elevators work and things (like gas pipes) don’t leak and contractors are installing the right stuff–haven’t we had a lot of problems with bridges that fall down, etc., when bad people get away with cheating and not living up to requirements? But it seems like other parts of the world (India, Turkey, China) have such problems routinely, which seems like it would be a nightmare for those who live there.
The difference from liquor laws is clear–liquor (so far) is a perfectly legal product that one can certainly use horribly, with awful results. Same is true of food (esp. fatty and sugary types). But freedom certainly requires that we, as adults, learn to deal with such products–know our limits, etc.
I don’t want to hear that someone else’s freedom is inhibited by having to comply with certain regulations affecting how well he or she does the installation (of an elevator, say)! If you are putting in an elevator, you are announcing to the world that you do in fact have the know-how to do it properly, up to standards that do need to be set by someone.
With alcohol, food, and cigarettes, we really ought to be able to handle them as adults, without the aggressive protection of the nanny state. I don’t know why people would be allowed to sue cigarette companies any more, for example; you’d have to be brain dead at this point, not to be acquainted with the “smoking is bad for your health” message. Let’s not go down the path of allowing McDonald’s to be sued for offering overly caloric food, or of allowing governments to follow the Bloomberg model of banning foods ‘for our own good.’
“as adults, learn to deal with such products–know our limits”
There is the rub: It seems Scandinavians have something that might be called the Viking gene, which makes too many of them imbibe in excess. The limited hours, steep prices and heavy curtains over the liquor shelves when outside those hours are not gratuitous – they are substantiated by experience. I believe the purpose is to limit any impulse drinking, especially if one has had a few already.
Liberty is not at issue, since you can buy as much as you like if you think about your purchase well beforehand. A sobering experience for a far-away, ingenue observer could be taking a trip on a Baltic ferry, where booze is available day and night. Many Scandinavians make use of this facility just to get soaked, on the way there (destination being of little interest) and back.
Norways alcohol consumption has doubled since 1960. The consumption is slightly under the US.
The socialiast policy is a big fail. Norwegians dont buy overtaxed alcohol in Norway.
They go to neighboring countries to stock up thus depriving the State of much needed
Revenue.
Apparently Norway is still behind Pennsylvania on sales taxing. Alcohol is cheaper in New Jersey and if you get caught buying you still have to pay Pennsylvania taxes on the product. And they ask you if you made any out-of-state purchases on Pa. income tax forms.
I’m longing for the day that I can practice heroin addiction right out in the open so I can fully realize myself as a Jeffersonian.
There’s no reason why, instead of a beer commercial, we can’t have funny frogs cooking spoons or men sitting on a patio at sunset after a hard day’s work sticking needles in their arms.
Superbowl commercial: “This heroin’s for you! Cheaper than freedom hating Norway, cooks smooth, no cotton fever and you’ll lose more calories than swimming 100 laps a day”. Cut to bikini clad models drawing little Route 66 signs next to the tracks on their arms.
Epiphany!
Sigh. This article on Norway helps explain why our liquor laws here in MN are so screwy. That and the incredible power the liquor lobby has over the MN legislature. So much for consumer choices.
Here in Pennsylvania we have a union liquor store lobby. Booze is cheaper across the river in New Jersey, where they can sell it in a super market. Every time they bring up privatizing the stores in Pa., the unions put pressure on the politicians and they cave.
I used to live in Duluth, MN, which is right across the bridge from Superior, WI. We used to party in Duluth until 12:45 and then head across the bridge because they were open for an extra hour (2AM vs. 1AM). Fortunately, our legislature changed that law a few years ago.
My big beef now is no sales on Sunday. It makes no sense when WI is simply a 30 minute drive away. I read where the state loses out on $10 million a year in tax revenue. All because select segments of the liquor lobby are opposed.
Mr. Bawer:
“Never mind that Norway, by some measures, does indeed come out ahead of, say, the state of Louisiana.”
Certainly less mosquitos and alligators. Norwegian cuisine would be considered animal feed…or bait pretty much anywhere in Louisiana.
One also has the freedom, once licensed, to carry a concealed handgun and defend one’s person and property with it.
But spending two weeks in Kristiansaand a year ago, what struck me most was that like Louisiana and Texas on the GoM, one could see the oil rigs offshore in the North Sea.
In Lafourche Parish, Louisiana a month ago, 87 octane gasoline cost less than $3.50 a gallon, whereas in Kristiansaand IIRC, it was about $4.00 a LITER.
There’s something wrong with that, but the Norskis didn’t even bat an eyelid about it.
I reckon that Norway is fine if you’re a Norwegian, I enjoyed my port call there, but t’ain’t my cup of tea.
Norway for the Squareheads, Louisiana for the Coonasses, and all is right with the world.
And the congregation said: “Amen” The thread winner if there ever was one!
For many years I lived within 10 miles of the distillery in Ontario, Canada where this beverage is manufactured. My local monopoly store charged me more than 6 x the price of the that same bottle, available in my package store in Atlanta, GA — with 1100 miles of transportation and an international border added.
Bravo. USA. “Pursuit of happiness”. Choice.
Thank you, Mr. Bawer, for writing this article. You have put your finger on a feeling of oppression that I’ve been feeling for three and a half years–in Canada. I moved to Canada with my Canadian husband in 2007. Everyone thinks of Canada as a nice, benign country that never causes any trouble. I have a different opinion. Canada had its “Obama” moment over 40 years ago when it elected its own adolescent into office as prime minister: Pierre Trudeau. He changed Canada from a free nation into a nanny state. Now, 40 years later, the people have become sufficiently infantilized and subservient to the State, as happens over time in all nanny states. Wherever I go here, and whatever I do, I feel the aforementioned oppression upon me. I so long to return to the U.S., but I fear that with Obama in office and the possibility of his re-election, there may be no difference between the two countries in a few years, and the infantilization process will proceed unabated in America. Our Constitution, as was the constitution of Canada (the British North America Treaty of 1867), will be negated and replaced with a new “Charter of Rights and Freedoms,” modeled on the Soviet constitution. I presently don’t have the choice to return to America, but at least I can now identify the oppressive feeling I have as “the heavy hand of the state” on my shoulder. Thank you.
A mistake, IMHO. Check the stats. Toronto and area has the least affordable real estate in the western world measured as a ratio of personal income. Yes, more than NYC or London, UK. The cost of most goods is 2x – 3x higher than the same of similar (chinese made!!! ha ha ha) goods in Buffalo (cost of regulation, that Canadians standard). Debt per capita is about $130,000 / person, compared to US $40,000 per person. You already know about the cost of auto insurance, gasoline etc. This is NOT OFFSET by the high cost of health insurance in the US. And that’s before you open your mouth and say something offensive, which is easy to do in a land without a First Amendment.
I didn’t start from the beginning in my third country at age 48 at the start of a recession without some good reasons. Good luck.
Yes, Canadian CLUB, I am looking right now at my copy of Ezra Levant’s book, “Shakedown,” and know well the evils of Canada’s Human Rights Commissions.
He is one of the Canadians I have discovered who has a spine. The others: Mark Steyn, Rachel Marsden, and William D. Gairdner. Perhaps there are others.
Thank you for your wishes of good luck. A couple trips back home each year makes it semi-tolerable. By the way, my Canadian husband, after living for five years in the U.S., now sees the nonsense here for what it is.
Ontario Girl: In my experience, there are three categories of Yanks who live in Canada. (1) Short termers, who know how they will leave, such as limited term business execs, students and diplomats; (2) Viet Nam era draft dodgers and deserters, mostly left wingers, who love HM The Queen’s Socialist Paradise the Dominion of Canada. Andy Barrie, the Toronto CBC radio personality is one of the most prominent of the army deserter species; (3) Folks who take a job in their field thinking that it will enhance their US career and then GET STUCK; (4) Maritals, who GET STUCK.
Good luck.
In the words of PJ O’Rourke “Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys”
Governments love booze laws because they get the income tax from the money you used to buy the stuff, hefty sales tax on it, and huge licence fees from the retailer who sold it to you. The feds even get a cut from excise tax. They can also use the power to play off the alcohol industry and the anti-alcohol lobbies against each other while soaking up votes and campaign dollars from both sides.
What is the difference between a bottle of wine purchased at 10:00 AM Sunday and one purchased at the same time the day before? “Nothin’ We just like f***n with you”
Just who came up with the notion that Norway is the best country to live? A bunch of pompus school marmy academics? You know, the kind with a narcissitic desire to run things?
Probably the same kind of people who think Yassir Arafat, Al Gore, and Barack Obama deserve Nobel Peace Prizes.
If this guy thinks Dixie liquor laws are a good example of freedom, I can’t wait for him to try buying wine in a dry county on a Sunday night.
Try learning a little before running your mouth.
Grady,
You just need to know where to go to get it. I remember my uncle driving on dark country roads, turning into a driveway, flashing the headlights and a guy came out to our car to take our order. Use to be it was easier to get liquor in a dry county in Kentucky than in a state liquor store in Ohio.
The down side of the story is that if one goes to the liquor store at 2:00AM and has a few swigs on the drive home and gets stopped and tested for blood alcohol of .08%, he get’s arrested and run through the mill of Americaqn justice. So, that $20 bottle of vodka winds up costing $6,000.
Anal-retentives, whether they are Norse or American, hate freedom and love to punish.
.08% is more than a few swigs, and drunk driving isn’t freedom; it’s reckless endangerment. Now if you wind up in a ditch because you’re drunk, it’s your own fault, but the other drivers on the road didn’t give you their permission to endanger their lives and limbs by driving drunk and possibly crashing into them. You can endanger yourself with reckless behavior and it’s not the government’s business, but you have no right to endanger everyone else around you against their will by neglecting basic safety rules.
You’re wrong. .08% blood alcohol level takes very little to achieve, perhaps a quart of beer for most men.
And your point is?
looks like my new wealth opportunity is to “rum run” goods into norway
however, there are tons of places in the u.s. where they are dry
Joe….Joe Kennedy, is that you?
Why not the Kennedy’s sure used rum running as a successful business model. As for dry counties…. well it is not much to drive a few miles..10-30 to buy a bottle. I doubt the markup is 1000% like the example in the article. Now that is a markup worth the risk. After all, how bad can a prison be in a socialist paradise?
Those liquor store hours are very similar to South Carolina’s. IIRC, 10-6 on weekdays, 10-8 Saturdays, and don’t even think about Sundays.
I realize a bit off everyone else’s post, but it sounds like Norway would be a great place to homebrew beer, or a more traditional (viking) Mead. Although I bet that they have made home production of alcohol illeagel. But if it isn’t seems like a great opertunity for a store.
Don’t scoff at Norway, or they’ll cut off the world supply of Lutefisk. Then you’ll be sorry!
I remember waiting in line outside a club in Bergen (fantastic liberty port). After a few minutes, I noticed that the trickle of people leaving the club usually consisted of two men, one of whom could barely stand. They are VERY SERIOUS about drinking in Norway. And have the alcoholism rates to show for it, regardless of purchasing opportunities. But they generally have a very strong work ethic along with (until recently) a homogeneous people and culture. They got the oil offshore about the same time they (and Europe in general) opened their borders. The oil is starting to run out. The immigrants will stay. I love the land of my ancestors, but I worry about them.
Ditto.
Come home, Bruce. The climate is changing, and a first-rate constructive critic is always welcome.
Ahhh, memories! My first encounter with New Orleans was on a business trip as a young professional. In New Orleans, alcohol flowed freely … everywhere, all the time. I discovered a new term, “a walker,” which referred to any alcoholic drink in a cup or open bottle, to be consumed while you were walking around town. We all grew giddy on this new-found freedom (the alcohol might have played a small role, too).
Back in my home state, alcohol could at that time only be purchased through “State” stores, or state-run liquor establishments. Going to the State store was short-hand for buying alcohol for private consumption. And yes, State stores were highly regulated, had very restricted hours and sold goods at prices that resembled highway robbery. You could not purchase alcohol on Sundays or election days, and operating a car or walking down the street with an open container of any alcoholic beverage was against the law.
This contrast was an excellent reminder of the beauties (and mysteries) of government, and the variability of state/local laws and attitudes. Each locality decided for itself, and it wasn’t Nanny.gov’s purview. At least, that’s the way it USED to be …
I grew up in Indiana, where the liquor was cheap (no distributor monopolies) but unavailable on Sundays for the most part (beer and wine available to drink at a restaurant but only with a meal). So there were liquor stores right at the border on either side: Monday-Saturday, lotsa Illinois, Michigan and Ohio customers on the Indiana side, Sundays the other way around.
Ohio’s drive-through liquor stores didn’t strike me as all that bright.
I’ve served in Norway as a US Marine for months at a time. I like Norway. Yeah, it is expensive, but you can leave your child in a baby buggy outside a shop on a Saturday and no one will steal it. What a concept! Schools are great and Norwegians are very responsible.
On one exercise, on a Saturday night at 11PM in October we had set up a roadblock and a bunch of 14-15 year old girls rode by on bikes. Even though they may have been spying for the Homeguard, who lets their kids out at night when the countryside is crawling with foreign troops, some of whom were from Louisiana?! The Norwegians do.
At 2 AM these same girls came riding back through the road block. They had ridden on a huge loop through the countryside. They were perfectly safe and their parents were not concerned. Could that happen in the US? Probably not, because most American kids don’t own bicycles, and if they did some drunk would run them off the road. especially at night. Don’t believe me? Go for a bike ride at night.
Norway is civilized and even though they are opinionated and try to push you around on the dance floor and can be very obnoxious drunks, I like them! Except when they are drunk, which can be a lot of the time. People who live where they have REALLY long winters tend to drink. Just visit Alaska in February some time.
Leave the Norwegians alone.
Ah, Norway.
From what part of the Norwegian psyche came Vidkund Quisling?
B Dubya: Vidkun Quisling came from a preacher’s family meaning the Enlightened Class.. (The nation mostly consisted of fishermen or farmers, so very few had the ability to speak or write against collectivist dictatorship – never practised by any faction in natl. politics before).
Quisling graduated from the National War Academy summa cum laude and had proved a valuable assistant to polar explorer Nansen when Aid For Russia program was set up in the late 1920′s after Lenin’s treacherous Revolution failed and starved the Russian people..
Quisling being a convinced opponent of Bolshevik rule considered Hitler Germany a renewal of moral depravity instigated by Lenin!! Quisling’s aims were ‘idealistic’, but he failed to realize in time that Hitler was as evil as Stalin.. He was executed in Oslo late 1945 – more as a means to save the necks of Pacifist Socialdemocratic politicians who had left Norway completely UNPREPARED(!) for the Occupation by Germany when it happened in April 1940..
this article reminded me when I was in the US and not allowed to go to the pub for a beer, because I was 20. Old enough to vote, drive a car, join the army…but not for a beer. land of the free.
23. “looks like my new wealth opportunity is to “rum run” goods into norway
however, there are tons of places in the u.s. where they are dry”
Yeah, I used to do a lot of hiking and camping in a dry county in Kentucky.
They grew some of the best weed in America down there and the stores had moonshine in mason jars under the counter.
Maybe they just didnt want to disrupt the local economy with legal stuff.
What’s ironic about this is that in my lifetime, Connecticut had just as stringent laws involving the closing of all businesses. As a child, retail businesses often closed completely on sunday, or stayed open 10-2. Connecticut still has limitations on beer as well-not for sale in convenience stores, can’t be bought past 10 pm, etc.
I’ve honestly never missed the lack. I don’t think freedom means easy access to beer at 3 a.m, and I’d worry someone who did thing that might be drinking too much.
3 AM might be the end of a long shift for some folks who just want to pick up some beers or something on the way home. The guys on first shift can do that no problem. The second or third have a problem because they are drinking too much.
If you stayed at your job clearing streets or something past normal hours and you want some brews before you crash down to deal with the next day you are a drunk. Same guy working 9-5 has no issues if he wants the same.
Bars are one thing. Ability to take home is another. Nobody is OK with driving drunk.
Spindok
Dblade – I think you are missing the point. The issue is not really whether or not you can get a 6 pack at a 7-11 at 3am. The issue is whether or not you live someplace where the government gets to make that decision. This article isn’t really “about” access to booze. It is a metaphor for the nanny state in general. I can’t imagine me needing a beer at 3am. However – living somewhere here the government decides what products are available when (and where the citizenry doesn’t bat an eye) concerns the heck out of me.
Heh heh…if you think Louisiana is special you should have been in Las Vegas where EVERYTHING is open 24/7 and you can buy a six pack of beer or a bottle of Jack Daniels at any gas station or convenience store as well as Wal-Mart, or Albertsons or Safeway. You can eat just about anything you want just about any time you want. But I have a question. Why do the Norwegians want to be coddled from cradle to grave? Is life that frightening to them that they feel they must be protected?
Slidell, Louisiana. The drinking age is 18 and a diner having only Led Zeppelin songs in the jukebox. Well, this was the case in ’94 when I was 19.
Louisiana isn’t all that spectacular, but this was a welcome gift/reprieve when stuck in Biloxi, MS for a year when in the military!
Mr. Bawer,
I am a Swede that have read some of your books and most of your posts here. As a small thank you for all the inspiration that you have given me, here is a real life tale about liquor in Norway:
Some time ago, maybe 15 to 20 years, a small town in Norway wanted to get ahead in tourism, so they built a very nice new hotel. Since they wanted to attract international guests, they realised that in the hotel you must serve liquor. However, they did not want the locals to be able to drink there.
The solution? They implemented rules that stipulated that only non-locals could be served drinks. I found this out from a local person that attended a wedding at this hotel. They had to organize it as follows:
For all non-locals: Wine was severd with dinner
For all locals: No wine at the dinner, but a hotel room with a bar that they could go up to.
Finally, if you are reading this: While Europe Slept is a great book and I have given it as a present to many friends in Sweden, but can you PLEASE change you statement about the number of muslims in Switzerland (you claim that there are 20%). This is totally wrong and it is something that is very easy to check. It is a shame, because you are spot on about Sweden but many swedes use this statement about Switzerland as a way to discredit the whole book.
That sounds almost Cuban.
An internet friend of mine works at the Swedish state liquor store monopoly, I forget how to spell it but it’s something like systembloget or the like.
Anywho, got into a minor bit of trouble when, at a beer convention, personally endorsed a certain beer. Well, that beer’s brewers were recording and used it as an opportunity to say, “Hey, look, Systembloget endorses us!” Now it caused a minor controversy because Systembloget isn’t supposed to endorse any one brewer. So even though he was speaking for himself, he basically got into a little trouble. In other words, he’s restricted in what he can say publicly in regards to beer because he works for the state owned monopoly, which is total BS.
(As an aside, any beer above 4% ABV can only be sold at the state owned stores and you have to be 21. Below 4% ABV can be bought at grocery stores by anyone over 18.)
Anywho, I live in Texas. The State of Texas requires that liquor stores close at 9 PM and t be closed on Sundays. No beer can be sold at grocery stores or convenience stores between the hours of 12 AM and 7AM, unless it’s Saturday in which cause beer sales cease at 1AM But, the State of Texas further insists that one should not go to Church liquored up so sales cannot resume until noon on Sundays.
I’ve never seen liquor sold at a grocery store. I’m assuming, therefore, that the State of Texas disallows liquor to be sold outside of liquor stores.
These restrictions are relatively light, I suppose. Mississippi has it worse. I understand there they have limits on the amount of alcohol that can be served in a beer. I have a Belgian friend who migrated there and absolutely chafes under their ridiculously harsh blue laws. Belgians like their brews, after all.
i like read this comment , then i can find something from your heart!
Wow, I found articles written by the much loved (by me) Bruce Bawer.
I was just (last month) subjected to Norwegian laws and rules,– still ongoing.
My father recently passed away.He was a Lutheran like 95% of the Norwegians. The burial ritual had to take place on days approved by government, Tuesday through Friday, and after my dad had been dead for at least 7 days.
In Norway, please plan your death so the clergy will not be inconvenienced.
And in case foreigners are confused, the churches are sparcely populated, Christmas and Easter are holidays for the masses to enjoy liquor, if they can afford the luxury of purchasing at the Vinmonopolet or own their own destillation equipment.
And, gasoline is currently priced at $10++++/gallon, the blue-eyed Arabs are saving for a rainy day. The conditions of the roads are proofs in the pudding.
I think the overall point of the original post was the feeling of oppression (liquor being the catalyst for this). Any form of constraint or restriction that makes one want to free themselves (or at least pursue the option of) was the gist. Every locale faces the difficult choices of establishing the levels of freedom that they feel will result in best compromise for a vibrant, yet happy, populace. There is no right or wrong – they all have various shades of grey when you analyze the key factors. Myself, I like the ability to purchase alcohol, like everything else, when my schedule allows, not the other way around – at a fair cost (and tax base). ‘My world’ is better for for me this way…
I can relate to what Bawer is talking about here. Canada also has ridiculously antiquated and puritanical liquor laws (with the exception, of course, of Quebec.) It’s not as bad as it used to be; you can at least buy liquor on Sunday now, most liquor stores are open well into the evening, and some provinces allow privately-owned beer-and-wine outlets, but one still feels somehow like a naughty child whenever venturing out to purchase some of the demon drink. The most frustrating thing is not being able to buy a bottle of wine or six-pack of beer at the supermarket along with the rest of one’s weekly groceries. And forget about finding such items down at the corner store. Or openly sharing a nice chilled bottle of wine with your friends at a picnic at the park or on the beach. The fires of hell would descend! We are reminded every time we have to make an extra trip or go out of way to buy liquor, or sneak wine to picnics in thermos bottles and cravenly sip it from plastic coffee cups, that the state doesn’t see us as responsible adults even after we reach the legal drinking age of 19. I’ve lived in both Japan and China where all varieties of liquor can be bought and consumed anywhere, at pretty much any time, and in neither country did I ever see any more evidence of alcoholism or alcohol-related crime, violence, accidents or disorder than I have seen here in good old Canada. Only a fellow Canadian – or perhaps a Norwegian – could relate to the exquisite grown-up freedom I felt in Tokyo, being able to buy an ice-cold beer from a vending machine at the end of a long hard day of work and – horror of horrors – DRINK IT while riding home on the subway!