Carlin: The Politicization of the EPA — an Administration’s Radical Gamble (PJM Exclusive)
On Monday, the EPA announced its endangerment finding for greenhouse gases. One can infer from the timing of the announcement that the administration may have taken this action at this time in order to bring something to the table at the Copenhagen COP15 meeting.
From a scientific viewpoint, it was an odd time to do so — given that the very recent Climategate disclosures would presumably have taken some time to digest and analyze for their possible effects on vital conclusions. So the timing may have been based more on the political, rather than the scientific, factors involved.
But from a larger viewpoint, the U.S. president who was going to find a way to resolve partisan bickering in Washington has now embarked on a major escalation of the conflict — by using the power he holds over executive branch agencies to fight his enemies in Congress over the issue of global warming.
Although the EPA has always been, organizationally, an arm of the administration in power, until this administration the EPA has generally been able to maintain the appearance (if not the reality) of being science-based.
That is now much harder to maintain.
Originally, the rumor was that the purpose of the endangerment finding would be to pressure Congress into approving a cap and trade bill. Now, it appears fairly clear that the administration will not be able to gather the needed votes in the Senate to pass the bill — at least this year, and probably even next year, either with or without an endangerment finding. So there would seem to be little reason to push the endangerment finding now — unless they intended to use it as the basis for negotiating at COP15.
Some Major Political Risks
This EPA endangerment approach carries major risks for the administration. The first risk is that the EPA’s apparently politically motivated endangerment finding may be overturned in the now-inevitable court reviews.
The second risk is that when greenhouse gas regulations should be announced — and certainly when they should ever be implemented — the full responsibility will obviously fall onto the administration, rather than being shared between the administration and Congress (which is what would occur if Congress ever adopted a cap and trade bill). If constituents end up being unhappy with the resulting regulations, and particularly the greatly increased energy costs and decreased employment that will result, it will be obvious who was responsible.
And there may well be some very unhappy constituents.
A third risk is that they will not be able to contain the EPA’s actions, since the law clearly specifies that much smaller sources are subject to regulation than they now contemplate, and legal action may force the EPA to regulate smaller sources whether it wants to or not.
A fourth risk is that the added uncertainties created by the finding, and the added costs in terms of higher energy prices and reduced employment, will further weaken the administration’s claims to be primarily interested in combating the recession — the issue currently most on the mind of voters.
So, we’re to be ruled by edict now — and “ruled” is the word. Hope everyone enjoys it.
until this administration the EPA has generally been able to maintain the appearance (if not the reality) of being science-based.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/oct/14/nation/na-epa-climate14
Bush-era EPA document on climate change released
October 14, 2009
WASHINGTON — The Environmental Protection Agency on Tuesday released a long-suppressed report by George W. Bush administration officials who had concluded — based on science — that the government should begin regulating greenhouse gas emissions because global warming posed serious risks to the country.
The report, known as an “endangerment finding,” was done in 2007. The Bush White House refused to make it public because it opposed new government efforts to regulate the gases most scientists see as the major cause of global warming…The Bush administration EPA draft was released in response to a public records request under the Freedom of Information Act by the environmental trade publication Greenwire.
Um, crappy reporting, low level intellect or outright mendacity; I simply don’t care. There’s no excuse for this kind of bs. You might as well write religious tracts.
GE which now stands for Government Enterprises will be the big winner. How many lobbyists does it take to change a light bulb?
Shut down the EPA. I’ve hear some people calling for shutting down the UN, or withdraw from there at least… well, let’s start with EPA first. They have been wrong all the time, wrong on DDT, wrong on CFC, wrong on CO2. Time to close that witchcraft center forever.
Not only is the EPA going to exceed its mandate, but if it does go after the “big producers only” it will be employing its authority unevenly which ought to result in some huge law suits. It seems ironic that it will be the environmental activists that will bring about the dismantling of the EPA.
I believe this is just one more example of the narcissistic President Obama who wants to be able to tell the world that he is the only voice that matters in the US and that he should be the leader to lead the new world order being created through these globalistic agenda.
It also serves as another item to keep the American people unbalanced while the government is trying to take over the economy. Do not lose focus. The Healthcare takeover has to be stopped. There is nothing good in the Healthcare reform bills currently in Congress. I’m trying to figure out what my new carreer will be if they do pass it.
So … Trofim Lysenko now runs the EPA? Well, that should work out just swell!
what will chief ecogangbanger gore do now?
Given its timing, the ukase of the EPA is the first OPENLY TOTALITARIAN move of this communist administration.
While the truth about the climate scam is emerging, this administration puts America under the power of a non elected agency.
This is only the first step. But, like the “first step” moved after reaching the edge of the canyon, it changes the situation… entirely.
#1 Jarvis
Your observation is absolutely exact.
#5 DoctorT
You wrote:
“There is nothing good in the Healthcare reform bills currently in Congress. I’m trying to figure out what my new career will be if they do pass it.”
The KGB will soon be hiring lots of people, and they will need scientists (to prove that anticommunists are a dangerous pollutant).
This is a non-story. Each administration as the story admits, pushes the EPA its way. What was more of a surprise was Carl Rove on O’Reilly last night, rather than blasting Obama and Copenhagen, spent most of his time, rather, touting all the things which he and GWB had done for the environment.
And he thinks of himself as a patriot. How can one be patriotic and care about the environment? Now if he and GWB had brought back DDT, THAT would be patriotic! Diauxins and PCBs have been mercilessly slandered as well. Bring back the good old days where a company could make a decent profit by dumping its crap wherever it could find a vacant lot. Regulation on toxic dumpong has killed American industry. Just look at what China has been able to accomplish by not wasting its time and money with such petty concerns.
Although the EPA has always been, organizationally, an arm of the administration in power, until this administration the EPA has generally been able to maintain the appearance (if not the reality) of being science-based…the EPA’s apparently politically motivated endangerment finding…
It looks like the EPA has formally joined the agenda based crowd in power and agreed to become its arm. And that the democrat dominated Congress will go along with the EPA’s machinations.
As I understand it, the EPA’s findings are based on the IPCC’s reporting which, in turn, is an extension of the kind of data massaging & suppression of adverse information that have been exposed at CRU/East Anglia.
Making policy, environmental or otherwise, as a function of this kind of crapola is really beyond belief.
Agree with ytzik – Shut it down. If the EPA wants to play politics, lets pay hardball.
After the Republican landslide of 2010, totally defund the agency and revoke the Clean Air Act. Pink-slip them all top to bottom.
Start over and replace it all with streamlined regulations and narrowly defined scope of enforcement for the new agency.
Are you still proud that you voted for Obama? LOL
#10 Old Soldier
You wrote:
After the Republican landslide of 2010,
I applaud your optimism.
I seriously doubt that a totalitarian administration that controls 95% of the media, all the schools, all the universities, and receives unlimited help from abroad and from the likes of George Soros will EVER allow anything like that to happen.
As soon as the elections time will approach, there will be money running to the four corners of the inner cities, there will be scandals and pseudo-scandals revealed by the totalitarians-controlled media one after the other, fear and panic will be spread like bread in the streets of ancient Rome.
America has never witnessed (domestically) the power of a totalitarian machine.
Venezuela will pale in comparison.
You can count on this.
The immense stupidity of our politicians must not drive anyone into unwarranted optimism.
The Freedom of the whole world is at stake, the beast will not let go as easily as a gentleman would think.
Any cop , to be a good cop, needs to know the other side.
Any Freedom defender needs to know the other side as well.
The way is long, and it will be painful, we need a giant effort from each single Citizen.
Think of this as a litigation opportunity. The idea is to delay implementation of the EPA’s regulation of carbon emissions by suing it about those on all grounds available until we have a GOP President in 2013. Then the GOP administration’s Justice Department can immediately settle all the pending lawsuits with agreements that CO2 is not a pollutant, that the EPA can’t regulate it, and that most of the EPA’s budget should go instead to pay the attorney fees of everyone suing the EPA about this.
The greenies file environmental lawsuits all the time on the grounds that a given government action, or regulation, is arbitrary just to delay things. We should do the same to them.
So the EPA says only businesses which emit more than 25,000 tons of C02 a year should be regulated. File one lawsuit saying this is arbitrary because the limit should be 50,000 tons a year, another lawsuit saying the limit should be only five tons a year, etc. Bury them in lawsuits and paperwork for four years. It’s the environmental way.
I agree with ytzik @ #4: shut the EPA down. I would do the same thing to a whole of other such agencies who think they can do an end-run Congress. Unfortunately, the EPA of symptomatic of a major problem with our government. We have put much of our government on auto-pilot, and we don’t have the ability to turn it off. Consequently, we have the Lisa Patersons of the world who think they can dictate to use whatever they think is good for us. Congress won’t pass Cap ‘n Trade – not to worry – we can’t be bothered with the will of the people. (Not for nothing do I rank Richard Nixon as one the four worst president of the twentieth century.)
Mr. Carlin,
The EPA ceased to be a science-based agency long ago, as did the Fish & Wildlife Service. American “Big Science” is IMO irretrievably on the same path. More than the reputation of “big science” in general is at stake. Failure by the scientific profession as a whole to publically and decisively repudiate this fraud will result in them losing credibility with the elected officials they seek funding from.
This is not a fight which can be avoided, and the fact that major political factions support & collude with this fraud won’t change the outcome. Either Big Science cleans its own house or the government side of its budget will become just another boondoggle, with funding decisions being based on political clout rather than scientific merit. I do not believe the science profession will even try to save itself – they’re too much a part of the very corrupted academic world.
The results of this will be horrid. Who would take the word of a scientist about the merits of the projects he is pushing if he won’t criticize obvious scientific fraud? Why should politicians trust him not to let funds trusted to him be used for purposes unrelated to scientific merit?
And, if the scientific merit of a given project really cannot be ascertained because the experts on the subject can’t be trusted to act against fraudulent misuse of the funds, why shoulddn’t the politicians who appropriate the money do so based on the prospects that the funding will benefit their power and prospects of remaining in office?
IMO the scientific profession will fail this test, and thereby justifiably make their budgets mere political footballs.
The era of major rapid increases in scientific knowledge may be ending, with all that implies.
From one old soldier to another one: I agree with you, wholeheartedly.
The EPA is an unconstitutional government entity whose sole purpose is to serve the political needs of whatever party occupies the White House. An EPA “finding” is nothing more than an edict to be obeyed, without recourse to the legislative process.
Do away with the EPA, overturn all of its edicts, and get rid of the Clean Air Act.
Old Soldier is correct. If worse comes to worse the Usurper will declare a “National Emergency” and suspend the Constitution. Then we will have a “Kristallnacht” (SP?) like they did in German in ’33.
Acorn and the police will round up all the undesirables. If you post on a conservative web site, you can pretty much bet that your name is on that list.
Some of us are preparing. Are you?
Here is a tip; The police will be issued warrants. Those warrants will be in alphabetical order. So they will come first to the neighbor nearest to you who’s last name is closest to the top. Be ready.
The thugs will be expecting trouble from that address, not his neighbors. So you can catch them in a cross fire without to much trouble.
Join a Neighborhood watch. As soon as the Usurper declares, remove ALL street signs. Locals know how to get around. Those coming to get somebody won’t. If they have to drive around, dodging potshots, they will soon lose their taste for a nasty business.
The cops especially. Day one for the police will be normal, since they will be given warrants and told to serve them. Since this is a little unusal but not a lot so, they will try and serve those warrants. After the first few, the cops will figure out that something is not right. That will be when the troubles start. Most cops don’t have much use for the Usurper and his Chicago thugs. When gangbangers in ACORN shirts show up to ‘help’ the police, I expect about 1/3rd of the Police to call in sick. That number will grow. When it gets to the point where there is 1 cop and 2 dozen ACORN “volunteers” serving a warrant, then we will have open warfare. At that point citizens will start hunting down people in ACORN shirts. The trash cans will be full of ACORN Shirts.
America isn’t Germany, Germany had no 2nd amendment. I don’t think a socialist takeover of America along the lines of the Nazi’s, Bolsheviks, or Mao is possible. Of course, what I think isn’t important, it’s what the people pulling the Usurper’s strings think that count. Remember, Ayers plans on murdering 25 million people or so after the Socialist takeover.
Stephen Brady,
The traditional method of dealing with dysfunctional federal agencies has been to assign their most important missions to new agencies, and let the old ones rot with steadily decreasing budgets.
This has happened most recently with the CIA, whose analysis and human intelligence missions have been transferred to the Defense Department. The CIA’s most important remaining mission is to draw fire from Congress & the lefties, and thereby distract the latter so they won’t interfere with the real work done by the rest of the intelligence community.
In terms of the EPA, its original missions of cleaning the air and water should be transferred to a new CLean Air and Water service (CLAW). The EPA should be officially given the mission of protecting the country from NOn-existent Threats (NOT) such as CO2 emissions, and have its budget steadily reduced to the same as the Interstate Commerce Commission.
With all due respect for everyone’s Freedom of speech,
it is funny to watch some folks imagining a fantasy communist take-over.
The communist take over has already happened.
The commies don’t need to kill you.
They just need to destroy America’s military, industrial, economic might. And that is what they are doing.
After that, they have confidence that the world will fall into the dark age of totalitarianism.
The way to resist is
TELL THE TRUTH, wake up the slumbering, prepare in any legal and peaceful way the roll-back.
This would be the same ggovernment that let California burn last year, the same government that won’t allow brush to be cleared to prevent the fires that fill the air with carbon dioxide.
All the industry that creates the carbon dioxide will move overseas, taking the jobs with it. The carbon dioxide will still be released into the same atmosphere, but our politicians will congratulate themselves for beggaring us.
This is insanity writ large.
Has anyone noticed how many of the delegates are NOT bicycling around Copenhagen? And have you noticed that not one of them arrived at the airport via hot-air baloon? Are any of them forgoing the comforts of hotel rooms that are not heated by greenhouse gases?
What a bunch of hypocrites!!!
Want change? Quit electing lawyers. There are over 300 million Americans. There are roughly 1 million lawyers. 70 percent of the administrative state–judges, politicians, lobbyists, and department heads–are lawyers. They even have lawyers authorizing real time fire missions during war. So in our meretricious democracy three tenths of a percent of the population get to represent everyone, especially themselves. And you wonder why a select group of unlawful combatant POWs are now getting a civil trial in New York instead of a military tribunal and speedy execution?
21. Sherab Zangpo:
With all due respect for everyone’s Freedom of speech,
it is funny to watch some folks imagining a fantasy communist take-over.
The communist take over has already happened.
The commies don’t need to kill you.
They just need to destroy America’s military, industrial, economic might. And that is what they are doing.
After that, they have confidence that the world will fall into the dark age of totalitarianism.
The way to resist is
TELL THE TRUTH, wake up the slumbering, prepare in any legal and peaceful way the roll-back.
I agree with most of what you are saying ..just I am not as optimistic. the truth came out about the “glow-ball warming” and other then bloggers and FOX news it is not main stream and if you listen to the continuing debate it isn’t even factoring in.
the take-over is in place but not fully consummated, still I think most have already pulled the pants down and are bending over right now.
I suppose that all females (human and non-human) will require a permit to produce a baby>
#25 Samson
The regime building is still primitive, I agree,
but we must already mobilize as single individuals to spread the truth about everything that is happening:
gather all the info we can on our computers, print materials and have family and intelligent friends read them and spread them and so on and so forth.
Samizdat is the word.
Don’t count on the media, count on yourself.
We must be everywhere like ants.
Soon they will touch the net too. Better be ready and have your own “mass-media”.
I disagree that we should completely get rid of the EPA. But it does need its wings clipped and we need a congress of rational, reasonable people to oversee it. Sadly, we have a congress run by and for power hungry leftist elites who long ago put themselves ahead of the country.
2. Phranc:
until this administration the EPA has generally been able to maintain the appearance (if not the reality) of being science-based.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/oct/14/nation/na-epa-climate14
Bush-era EPA document on climate change released
October 14, 2009
WASHINGTON — The Environmental Protection Agency on Tuesday released a long-suppressed report by George W. Bush administration officials who had concluded — based on science — that the government should begin regulating greenhouse gas emissions because global warming posed serious risks to the country.
The report, known as an “endangerment finding,” was done in 2007. The Bush White House refused to make it public because it opposed new government efforts to regulate the gases most scientists see as the major cause of global warming…The Bush administration EPA draft was released in response to a public records request under the Freedom of Information Act by the environmental trade publication Greenwire.
Um, crappy reporting, low level intellect or outright mendacity; I simply don’t care. There’s no excuse for this kind of bs. You might as well write religious tracts.
__________________________________________________________________
And another example of dishonesty where some one uses another persons handle. It’s sad that a troll has to stoop to this level of dishonesty. Lies, nothing more or less. The base insult of some ones intellect is the hallmark of Moho though so if I had to hazard on who the unscrupulous troll is I’d pick him.
I don’t believe that the environment has anything to do with the Obama Regime decision. It is all about a grab for power by the enviroreds and they are hoping that a new Congress in 2010 or a new administration in 2012 will be powerless before the courts to do anything about it. It is about Obama bureaucrats being an independent power after Obama is gone.
The EPA has been politicized from its inception. They ignored the scientific evidence on DDT 35 years ago, and they’re ignoring the scientific evidence on AGW today. The only solution consistent with long-term freedom in America is to disband the agency. If a polluter causes provable harm to identifiable victims, it should be treated as a tort, not via regulatory prior restraint.
Your arguments are as stale as your clip art.
The reply to the EPA needs to be a paraphrase of Andrew Jackson’s reply to John Marshall: “The EPA has made their ruling; now let them enforce it.”
It’s all about control. Time for some civil disobedience.
Two things:
1. This or any other handle does not belong to you. This is just like a wingnut, insisting ownership over things they’ve done nothing to create or pay for. Anyone here is free to use any handle they wish.
2. How can a link be a lie, you idiot. Are you actually saying that the Bush Administration didn’t suppress the report?
Here’s more evidence that this article is way off base, as if anyone who reads the paper regularly would need it.
http://www.yubanet.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/60/41616
The Bush administration has declared itself immune from whistleblower protections for federal workers under the Clean Water Act, according to legal documents released today by Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER). As a result of an opinion issued by a unit within the Office of the Attorney General, federal workers will have little protection from official retaliation for reporting water pollution enforcement breakdowns, manipulations of science or cleanup failures.
http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2009/10/13/13greenwire-epa-releases-bush-era-endangerment-document-47439.html
U.S. EPA released a long-sequestered document on global warming today showing the George W. Bush administration had concluded in December 2007 that greenhouse gas emissions from motor vehicles were endangering public welfare and needed to be regulated under the Clean Air Act.
Frankly, this is the first time that I know of that this posting name has been associated with the truth. The more you fight these obvious facts, the bigger the idiot you appear. In fact, keep fighting them. Between the two of us posting these links, your knuckle-dragging brothers here will have no choice but to be confronted with the truth over and over again.
This is not a defense of an Obama, but an indictement of how lame and vacuous the current right wing movement is. Its based on paranoid hatred and willful ignorance.
Now and Then,
I am utterly gobsmacked by your brilliant refutation of main authors “stale arguments.” Please, continue to bowl me over with your illuminating thoughts.
The biggest disaster coming out of Climategate or whatever you call it is going to be the complete discrediting of science in general. It’s not just the EPA that will have no credibility after this. There’s going to be a harsh anti-environmentalist reaction, and an anti-science mentality in general, and frankly, why shouldn’t there be?
This is going to have a horrible impact on one aspect of my own work, the several hours a week I have to spend getting parents to vaccinate children. I can already hear it now–I’m surprised I haven’t heard it already. What a catastrophe.
Another unintended consequence is second hand CO2. I really object to breathing that stuff.
# 19 John “birther” Samford – please drop me an email, you have some good ideas. fairbanks99@hotmail.com
I am utterly gobsmacked by your brilliant refutation of main authors “stale arguments.” Please, continue to bowl me over with your illuminating thoughts.
Indeed, more evidence that this movement is based on nothing more than illiteracy and self delusion. Anyone who read the paper regularly over the last three or four years knows what Phranc has already posted in various links. Indeed, no one in recent history manipulated the EPA more than Bush.
This statement is total hogwash.
Although the EPA has always been, organizationally, an arm of the administration in power, until this administration the EPA has generally been able to maintain the appearance (if not the reality) of being science-based.
Indeed, its quite clear that the author knows this quite well. In any case, the author is an economist, not a scientist. This is absurd bs. Just two years ago, there was quite a scandal over the political machinations of the Bush administration on the EPA:
Here’s the story of NASA SCIENTIST AND WHISTLEBLOWER James Hansen:
The Bush administration once again faces charges from James Hansen, a foremost climate scientist, of interfering with science in order to downplay global warming. Hansen is director of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, and was one of the first experts to warn of the threat of climate change.
The US House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, during its second hearing on Monday, released a memo stating that documents “appear to portray a systematic White House effort to minimize the significance of climate change.” From New Scientist:
In written testimony, Hansen said: “In my more than three decades in government, I have never seen anything approaching the degree to which information flow from scientists to the public has been screened and controlled as it has now.”
The committee also heard a former White House aide attempting to defend his editing of government reports on climate change. Phil Cooney, chief of staff at the White House’s Council on Environmental Quality from 2001 to 2005, said editing was part of the normal review process between agencies.
That is now much harder to maintain.
http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2007/03/james-hansen-testifies-climate-science-meddling
Like my dad used to say…
a politician
once you get passed the first ten comments, then you get to what is real.
It is real here. Young people, you really believe that the far right will sell you on the fact that pollution is good and we should do away with government regulation concerning the planet.
This is wrong. Conservatives never feared the EPA, nor do they fear the fact that companies should stop polluting. Do not let the emotion of the anti democrat fever sway you. Make no mistake, there is alot to complain about if your a far right …mid east type zealot..but being anti clean planet is not part of that…
are we clear?
remember what clear is…ok?
32. Now and Then:Your messiah got his start in politics turning tricks for a slum lord. That one never gets stale!
There are more areas than climate change and the state of the economy in which the truth has been suppressed and information manipulated for many years.
Prescription drug addiction due to overprescribing springs to mind right now.
If in doubt always ask yourself Cui Bono? (Who gains)
34. Phranc:
Two things:
1. This or any other handle does not belong to you. This is just like a wingnut, insisting ownership over things they’ve done nothing to create or pay for. Anyone here is free to use any handle they wish.
2. How can a link be a lie, you idiot. Are you actually saying that the Bush Administration didn’t suppress the report?
Here’s more evidence that this article is way off base, as if anyone who reads the paper regularly would need it.
http://www.yubanet.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/60/41616
The Bush administration has declared itself immune from whistleblower protections for federal workers under the Clean Water Act, according to legal documents released today by Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER). As a result of an opinion issued by a unit within the Office of the Attorney General, federal workers will have little protection from official retaliation for reporting water pollution enforcement breakdowns, manipulations of science or cleanup failures.
http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2009/10/13/13greenwire-epa-releases-bush-era-endangerment-document-47439.html
U.S. EPA released a long-sequestered document on global warming today showing the George W. Bush administration had concluded in December 2007 that greenhouse gas emissions from motor vehicles were endangering public welfare and needed to be regulated under the Clean Air Act.
Frankly, this is the first time that I know of that this posting name has been associated with the truth. The more you fight these obvious facts, the bigger the idiot you appear. In fact, keep fighting them. Between the two of us posting these links, your knuckle-dragging brothers here will have no choice but to be confronted with the truth over and over again.
This is not a defense of an Obama, but an indictement of how lame and vacuous the current right wing movement is. Its based on paranoid hatred and willful ignorance.
___________________________________________________________
The link isn’t a lie, you using my handle is. It’s a lie because you are trying to pass your self off as some one you aren’t. It’s ok Though you need to be dishonest to feel special. It’s also why you insult peoples intelligence. Funny how you call people stupid at the same time missing the point by a mile. I didn’t fight any facts so how can I be an idiot for doing something I didn’t do? More of your lies and dishonesty. So thanks for setting up your dishonest strawmen arguments and falsely attributing it to me so you could knock it down and feel important. What shallow sad little person you are. You are so desperate for attention you remind me of the girl with no father who will whore her self out just to feel a little of what she thinks is love.
39. Lou Floospin:
So what you’re saying is that the screening and controlling of science information that was done during the Bush admin qualifies or legitimizes the same from the guys at the CRU, IPCC, and NASA?
Didn’t your mama teach you better than that? (sorry, it was just too easy…)
@39 Lou Floospin:
Hansen can assert in testimony anything he wants — that doesn’t make it objective or the truth. Why should I take that AGW propagandizing hack’s word about anything?
P.S. The link to Mother Jones (now THERE’S an unbiased source) doesn’t fill me with any confidence that it’s an objective reportage; would you give credence to a link from, say, National Review or American Thinker? Didn’t think so.
Hey lou: hogwash. We know what has been suppressed, and it was the truth of the fraud of global warming. This meme that Bush suppressed something is pure left-wing agitprop and a bald lie. It is demonstrably not true and that fact that you have to use someone as morally and intellectually compromised as Hanson (or lefty agitprop organs for that matter) just further confirms this.
Just what was it that Bush suppressed? Nothing. No. Thing. Name it.
We should be so fortunate that the disinformation of this pack of Marxist vipers could in fact “be suppressed”. What an absurd allegation, and absurd on very the face of it. How could it be possible?
There are just spurious claims wholly unfounded in reality that are meant to obscure the truth, not bring it forth. It is one thing to unwittingly repeat a slander. It is quite another to willfully do so.
You are just being manipulated by propaganda organs and the most obvious of hustles.
They just wind kids like you up like toy automatons and off you go clanging your cymbals like some mechanical monkey. If you had any self respect you would be angry at them and ashamed of yourself.
The Left has been caught out on this. Accept the truth and reform you understanding of them. Stop carrying water for them. They lied to you. They have complete and utter contempt for you. Do not let them use you so. You are quite young; it is your future they are stealing.
So what you’re saying is that the screening and controlling of science information that was done during the Bush admin qualifies or legitimizes the same from the guys at the CRU, IPCC, and NASA?
I can see why it might seem that way to an illiterate retard. However, as I’ve written twice now, I am refuting this absurdity:
Although the EPA has always been, organizationally, an arm of the administration in power, until this administration the EPA has generally been able to maintain the appearance (if not the reality) of being science-based.
Certainly I agree that the EPA is acted up on by politics. But to say that this administration is the worst given the evidence available to upright walking humans capable of tuning a radio dial, television remote or EVEN READING A NEWSPAPER, simply disqualifies this person from being taken seriously. That must be why you clowns love them so–Clowns in Pajamas Media.
Follow the money, this is not now nor was it ever about the environment. It is first and foremost about the power to rule without the messy neccissity of the peoples consnet, secondly it is about using that power to enrich ones self and friends. GE is the prime example of a friends of this strategy move. Jeff Immelt has moved this company this way and awayed and lobbied for his own benefit. He is not the only one, they are jumping on a train leaving the station. I think sooner rather than later this train will derail and those aboard will wish they never have jumped on. What cane westart to do, well first the American politcal mechanics need to taken away from the radicals, secondly the EPA needs to be abolished and its various activities either eliminated or spread to where they came from, thridly a complet investigation of forced conclusions at the EPA should be held and those found responsible should be dealt with in criminal proceedings. Lastly, the American press needs to be made to look like the clowns and intellectual substandards they are. We need to work fast to derail this train that is moving come hell of highwater, this train that is moving even though the tracks have already been destroyed. These people do not want democracy, they want control of all of your lives to better their lives not yours. This is the Barack Obama way.
The EPA imposition of rules often results in greater pollution – precisely because they dont do a proper cost benefit analysis. For example, Ethanol is claimed to burn cleaner, even though it results in lower gas mileage, thereby resulting in greater pollution per mile, (not even taking into account the higher polluting costs of production, transportation and farming. Second example is the required reduction of VOC compounds in paints. The regulations for paint have reduce VOC emissions by approx 1/3 – a good benefit,- the bad is that the durability of the paint is approx half requiring more frequent painting, which in turn results a 50% increase in VOC emissions.
Simple solutions-(1) GET OUT OF THE UN-the UN is a agency that supports one-world communist or moslem style rule and totalitarianism. (2) dont only disband the EPA. Also disband the FED Reserve, eliminate the 16th and 17th amendments AND any subsidies given to s cience agencies. If science wants progress, do what Louis Pastuer did. Get private funding. Bill Gates did it with Microsoft. Marie Curie discovered radium without a government subsidy. The Wright bros flew the first airplane. By the way commiepigs-your commie president has the LOWEST approval ratings of any president ever since they first started polling at this point in his presidency. This moron makes JIMMY CAR DUH LOOK SMART.
Three easy reasons to doubt “science”.
No. 1 Evolution . Tortured and skimpy reasoning stretched to “create truth.”
No. 2 AGW ,Totally concocted scheme to tax and control the largest economy that ever existed.
No. 3 H1N1 Swine flu virus epidemic. A completely fabricated myth channeled through the CDC and the compliant MSM.
Several commenters have suggested that science will suffer the consequences of Climategate ; and well they should . They stopped seeking truth a long time and now wallow in the pit of of self gratification.
The commies who are out today:
Any house built on lies cannot stand.
The current argument for C02 being a poisonous gas is based on lies, based on pretend science. Global warming argument: A LIE!
All of you Jim Jones Kool-Aid drinkers out there better prepare for the destruction of all of the lies that you hold dear. If you hang on to those lies, you’ll go down with them in disrespect, shame and eternal damnation. Here is the good part; you don’t even have to believe in God to reap such a deserving reward.
“Oh Bush did it” Right. I guess old George didn’t buy into the lie at the time. What of the current goober in office? He never met a lie he didn’t buy into.
We don’t have to do anything except speak the truth and the lies and the liars will fall down sooner or later.
This is but one of Gods awesome principals that cannot be violated for very long without suffering the consequences.
Oh by the way, The Mother Jones news, the New York Times and the LA Times are not exactly bastions of truth. Even a clock is right twice a day. Think propaganda rather than the truth. Jim Hansen and the truth? Not happening anytime soon.
Inside Hansen’s brain using Mark Levin’s voice: “boy it sure is dark in here, somebody turn on a light, it must be global warming making it dark, I used to think it was global cooling now it’s both, wow I guess the weatherman was right. I need some more money, hey any body seen AL?, man it’s cold in here, somebody turn up the heat, I’m confused.”
Good luck with all of this and let’s hope your demons keep you up at night.
Americans in 1776 revolted for less than the stuff Obama is doing.
– And there may well be some very unhappy constituents.
Mainstream America is already there, Mr. Carlin.
The EPA has just ignited an inferno in the White House. President Obama is toast in so many ways that he is politically making himself a eunuch by a thousand self-inflicted wounds. We the people know the Global Warming is a fraud & this is about totalitarianism. He clearly does not care about job growth unless it is connected to government growth.
Come the 2010 massacre, Obama will be a fetal position claiming the election returns to be a dream…
They stopped seeking truth a long time and now wallow in the pit of of self gratification.
Yeah, and the internet was their worst invention.
#53
Ever wonder why it is so difficult to buy ammunition these days? Stock up. The tipping point can’t be far away.
The EPA has been a loose cannon for a couple decades, and the simple fact is that in 2007 there was insufficient basis on which to make any such finding, there’s insufficient basis on which to make that finding today.
Had I been Bush I’d have cleaned out the whole agency, but old ‘compassionate conservative’ mostly let them have their way.
The EPA has been a loose cannon for a couple decades, and the simple fact is that in 2007 there was insufficient basis on which to make any such finding, there’s insufficient basis on which to make that finding today.
Given Bush’s monumental scientific acumen, I’m sure he was perfectly qualified to make that decision. You dishonest boot-licking authoritarian pos–if it had been as you say, then why didn’t he let them produce the study and then bring his own cabinet agency to bear to prove them wrong? Self delusional crap from people who believe in nothing.
The scientific case against CO2 is easily discredited, without reference to temperature curves.
96% of CO2 emissions come from natural sources…volcanoes, forest fires, some flora and fauna, etc. 4% come from mankind and all he does. Well established and accepted numbers. I have used them 20+ times in discussion with AGW enthusiasts and everyone has agreed to accuracy.
Said another way, if we all died tonight, after shutting off the lights, powerplants, blah, blah…the Earth will continue wherever CO2 might take it at 96% “throttle”. Er, we are irrelevant. No AGW enthusiast to date can deal with that conclusion or explain why it is so important to regulate CO2 based on the above facts. It stops the conversation faster than Dirty Harry, my sort of cousin, could ever hope to.
As the CRU and Darwin Zero data show, among other leaks, this is a manufactured hoax. The builders have done a good job of keeping the crazy man behind the curtain, but that is coming to an end. The backlash, for example in Spain which lost a huge number of jobs in the name of green power and now is in depression mode, of voters who have been lied to by the poltical classes could be quite a spectacle.
Obama’s comittment to further destroy the US with EPA regulations as part of his overall agenda is coming clearer, too. He won’t be able to talk his way out of it, and he doesn’t have the guns to enforce it. The sad part is there is going to be a hell of a mess made before Obama et. al. can be contained and their initiatives reversed.
This thread: a train wreck. (Sigh)
@60.
Yes. Additionally, the CO2 is NOT the main greenhouse gas… is the water vapor! What shall we do? Also get rid of water?
The bureaucracies, never a direct mandate of the original constitution, evolved or dis-evolved from public servants to public masters. They became like independent feudal states, vieing for tax payer money by busting their own budgets and puffing up their self importance.
Now, the EPA has broken through the legislative boundaries and as a branch of the executive office has authorized itself to write laws. The bet, or risk, that Mr. Carlin mentions is the junk science CO2/global warming which is not proveable until 50 years hence.
8. Sherab Zangpo: I like your writings and I suggest that you might have underestimated the situation. I would hypothesis that it is not communism/ socialism that is in effect but Sharia Law. when science is decide by mullah consensus, laws by sheik/feudal mandate, and the Iman of the United States by popularity, then we have already been had.
Lou Floospin @ #59: Read the Constitution; only Congress has the power to legislate. What the EPA is doing with its CO2 regulation is legislation by another means, and that is unconstitutional. Bush, irrespective of his scientific acumen (which you no doubt underestimate), was right to try and stop the EPA in 2007. As someone else said here, too bad he just didn’t shut it down.
Why isn’t ANYONE paying attention to the war on Christmas? Honestly, is there ANYTHING more important than denying our Lord and Savior his birthday? I don’t think we have any idea how much this must hurt him.
The “End of Prosperity” is here.
“The Housing Boom and Bust” that brought in this “Culture of Corruption” will weigh on everyone before it is done. But “The Road to Serfdom” is not a lonely road comrades. We are blessed with wise and benevolent leaders who will make all our choices for us.
I call them “job killers”
Abortion and the economy are strategic/political weaknesses that we will exploit in their foolish ambitions.
Jack:only Congress has the power to legislate. What the EPA is doing with its CO2 regulation is legislation by another means, and that is unconstitutional….Bush, irrespective of his scientific acumen (which you no doubt underestimate), was right to try and stop the EPA in 2007.
Boot licking authoritarianism at its finest. Why pray tell didn’t he simply say that’s what he was doing? Instead the only way his suppression of the 2007 report came to light was through a Freedom of Information Act reguest. And how I marvel at your prodigious knowledge of the Constitution.
You also haven’t the faintest idea what the EPA is or how it came to be. The EPA came into existence TO ENFORCE AND ADMINISTER LAWS PASSED BY CONGRESS. Indeed, idiot, this is how our bureaucracy works–congress passes a law, but since Congress has other things to do, it creates an agency tasked with setting the rules and researching the implementation of that law. All of those rules are subject congressional oversight, and must be found to be in accordance with that agency’s mandate. Asinine stupidity by people uninterested in solutions. Next time simply hum, really loud. I guarantee you that it wouldn’t make you look more willfully ignorant.
You are so desperate for attention you remind me of the girl with no father who will whore her self out just to feel a little of what she thinks is love.
When I wrote this I didn’t realize how obviously a product of projection it was. Obviously, a bit too right on the nose. Please forget I wrote this; I am not female nor do I have trouble in any way defining love outside of the rubric of sex. I am in a healthy relationship, and I am not gay.
Hide the decline! Hide the decline! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
The Republicans should do everything in their power to FORCE the EPA to squat or get off the pot. If the Obama-crats are stupid enough to actually try to make good on their EPA threat the backlash will be truly terrible to behold.
Americans, already skeptical of the science and opposed to being starved of energy, will riot. I am certain that my fellow citizens will not accept the legitimacy of a federal agency taking on such powers and doing such enormous damage to our society and our economy. We need to see this bluff called, and if it’s not a bluff, we need to see this administration exposed as the power-grubbing, undemocratic, would-be tyrants that they are.
68. Phranc:
You are so desperate for attention you remind me of the girl with no father who will whore her self out just to feel a little of what she thinks is love.
When I wrote this I didn’t realize how obviously a product of projection it was. Obviously, a bit too right on the nose. Please forget I wrote this; I am not female nor do I have trouble in any way defining love outside of the rubric of sex. I am in a healthy relationship, and I am not gay.
________________________________________________________________
You may not be a woman or gay but you sure are a liar because you didn’t write that.
I must say I’m rather flattered that you sought to single me out to troll like a juvenile. Obviously my points and arguments were so superior to yours that your typical lies and false arguments couldn’t hang anymore. In light of your constant failure your moved on to trying to impersonate me and smearing me with your dishonest posts.
Its to bad people like you have have to abuse the hospitality of PJTV. It’s very nice of they to open up posting to anyone without having to sign up. Unfortunately there are people like you with no semblance of integrity who take advantage of that to be a dishonest untrustworthy troll who can’t stand up on his own has to try and tear down others who are simply better people.
So thank you for being so jealous of me you had to assume my identity dishonestly and make me look bad. You are a fraud with no integrity. The epitome of a loser.
You may not be a woman or gay but you sure are a liar because you didn’t write that.
As I said earlier, please excuse my psychotic ramblings,;I often post as Phranc.
A few facts about AGW theory.
1. Greenhouse gases must collect in the atmosphere and trap heat.
In a study sure to ruffle the feathers of the Global Warming cabal, Professor Richard Lindzen of MIT has published a paper which proves that IPCC models are overstating by 6 times, the relevance of CO2 in Earth’s Atmosphere. Dr. Lindzen has found that heat is radiated out in to space at a far higher rate than any modeling system to date can account for.
2. A hot zone will develop in the lower atmosphere, probable around the equator.
In the late 1990s the disagreement between the surface temperature record and the satellite records was a subject of research and debate. The lack of warming then seen in the records was noted. A report by the National Research Council that reviewed upper air temperature trends stated: “Data collected by satellites and balloon-borne instruments since 1979 indicate little if any warming of the low- to mid-troposphere—the atmospheric layer extending up to about 5 miles from the Earth’s surface. Climate models generally predict that temperatures should increase in the upper air as well as at the surface if increased concentrations of greenhouse gases are causing the warming.”
3. There is no certainty in this science.
NASA bureaucrat James Hansen, who has been making a pretty penny by helping Al Gore prop up the global warming hoax, is a veteran of the global cooling hoax popular in the 1970s.
4. We’ve been here before.
Analysis of ice cores from the Antarctic ice cap (2) have shown that over the last half million years, there have been sudden and repetitive powerful surges of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere about every 100,000 years, with rapid de-glaciation, followed then by re-glaciation in long cooling periods.
(2) Science, June 6, (2006) pp1454; A.V. Federov, P.S. Dekens et al, The Pliocene Paradox, Science, Vol. 312, June 9, (2006) pp1485-89; D.R. MacAyeal, Dept. Geophysical Sciences, Univ. of Chicago, http://www.Geosci.uchicago.edu
Please use real facts when presenting Warmonger Debates. Your old ones are all used up!
All of the nonsense imposed by this administration and his sycophants used to upset and agitate me but now I look at them as the gift that keeps on giving. To conservatism. As they have won more power they are taking more and more risks to their political viability. Just let them run amok. They assume they have been given a mandate and a blank check by the people. The American people are not going to like or tolerate any of this and the backlash is going to be cataclysmic. Conseravatism, freedom and liberty will win out in the end and send these rats scurrying for cover in the sewers that spawned them. When these fools crash and burn and go down it will be the best entertainment ticket in town. I can hardly wait.
Noreen. You’re sadly misinformed. Conservatism is dead. What you people are championing is know-nothing feel-good bigotry and mob-rules lemming based movements. Few conservatives left in your party, I’m afraid. Most of them now call themselves Independent, to avoid the stigma of being attached to a group with the primary goal of providing a public stage for its wallowing in ignorance.
God’s Balls. Really you must get out of the basement more often. Turn off the computer ,turn off MSNBC and get out and talk to some real people. Conservatism is about equality, freedom and liberty for all. What is bigoted about that? Conservatives don’t define people by labels. It is far left liberalism that puts people in chains and sucks the soul dry. It uses your identity or gender to pit you against other Americans. I feel sorry for you. I proudly call myself conservative. You just keep being the lemming that you are. Follow and fawn over the empty suit that you worship and weep when his whole crowd goes down in flames. Obama, the gift that just keeps on giving. and giving.
Turn off the computer ,turn off MSNBC and get out and talk to some real people. Conservatism is about equality, freedom and liberty for all.
As I said Noreen, that very well may be true. But you are not conservative. You’d have to do some heavy digging to find a true conservative voice at PJM. By the way, I never mentioned Obama. Again, more proof that your simply parroting things you’ve heard, not thinking for yourself.
The term Conservatism is about using tested and proven forms of Government. What works is conservative, what might work is liberal until it works reliably then it becomes Conservative. What “ought to” work but never does remains liberal. It is as simple as that.
We in the the United States have been trying Communism and Socialism since the Plymith Colony two hundred years before Marx made his sales pitch for it. It never works. Living document law never works either. Somebody always figures out a way to use the courts for theft.
Liberty and Freedom work, that is why they are conservative. Calling people names is a protected right not a “hate crime” so the trueth can be spoken no mater how repelant. It appears that after Obama we need to add the Federal Reserve System to the Liberal pile and go back to the gold standard that worked from 1789 until 1913.
Liberty and Freedom work, that is why they are conservative.
Empty platitude much?
Lou Floospin is quite ill-mannered and really should not be allowed to comment here. Nonetheless, after he got through ranting and raving about my intelligence he clearly neglected to read the US Constitution. I cite verbatim Article 1, Section 1: “All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.”
Do you see the EPA there or any other form of regulatory body mentioned? Nowhere in the Constitution is there a fourth branch of government. I know full well what the Congress had done. They have basically and unconstitutionally handed over power to independent agencies to legislate. That is because they are too lazy to do so and do not want to take the heat for positions that the public does not want. That was the entire point I was making. You Mr. Floospin remind of the frogs in the water that keeps getting increasingly hot. Because the frogs would rather stay in the water, the remain there only to get boiled alive. We are in the same predicament. We are allowing our freedoms to slowly evaporate as we get more and more comfortable with a destructive totalitarianism being imposed by this unconstitutional fourth branch of government. (And don’t tell me the Supreme Court found it constitutional; they also found Plessy vs. Ferguson constitutional at one time.)
Obama and Bush are so close on war and corporate theft it’s hard to see a difference. They both rely on the masses yelling left wing right wing red fish blue fish as a means of distraction. EPA…CO2…Climategate give me a futher mucking break. No Liberal can stand behind Obama and no Conservative can back Bushes policies to do so precludes you from being either liberal or conservative.