Can There Be ‘Peace Through Weakness’?
So if that’s the lesson of recent history, what does a broader look tell us? According to Reagan, “a broader reading of history shows that appeasement, no matter how it is labeled, never fulfills the hopes of the appeasers.” And he’s right. No other lesson need be supplied to prove Reagan’s point than that of Neville Chamberlain and his infamous “peace in our time” speech. While Hitler was on the march in 1938, rolling through Europe with reckless abandon, Chamberlain was proud to say they shook hands after negotiating the Munich Agreement, which ceded part of Czechoslovakia to Hitler in exchange for his promise to stop his military conquest in September of that year.
To this day I am embarrassed for any members of Chamberlain’s extended family who may have to watch the video of him waving that treaty in his hand like Jed Clampett waved his hat after seeing the “bubbling crude.” For just months after Chamberlain held up that treaty and declared that he’d secured “peace in our time,” Hitler took the rest of Czechoslovakia, then Poland, Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Belgium, and finally France.
Perhaps the worst part about the way appeasers like Chamberlain (and FDR) handled Hitler is that they ignored Hitler’s clear intentions. Over a decade before he rolled into Poland, Hitler used his book Mein Kampf to express his hatred of Jews and his belief in the right of the superior race to rule. Iran’s Ahmadinejad is doing no less when he talks about blowing Israel off the map, yet Obama remains satisfied with holding “talks.”
Even though George W. Bush failed to handle North Korea correctly, he sees the danger behind Obama’s dependence on such talks: “Diplomacy only works if there’s leverage — ‘Let’s go talk to people’ … sounds wonderful … but you better have leverage in order to make diplomacy work.” (The “leverage” of which Bush speaks is military might.)
Therefore, whether we look at recent history or reach back decades upon decades, it is clear there can be no peace through weakness, for peace is the product of strength and the willingness to use that strength when threatened. Or, to put it as Reagan did while governor of California in 1972: “Every lesson of history tells us that appeasement does not lead to peace … [but] invites an aggressor to test the will of a nation unprepared to meet that test.”
Today, as Iran and a world of would-be despots looks on, I wonder if Obama’s weakness toward North Korea and his indifference concerning Israel’s safety have emboldened them enough to think that we might actually be “unprepared to meet [their] test”?
There is no such thing as peace through weakness, but Obama doesn’t care. He’s not seeking peace, only weakness.
TO: AWR Hawkins, et al.
RE: It’s Obvious That….
….Obama is neither a well read individual nor a student of history.
The 7 December 1941, attack on Pearl Harbor was predicated by the US’s unwillingness to have a strong Navy as counseled by a number of naval officials dating back to the late 1800s. Because the Navy wasn’t strong enough, the Imperial Japanese figured they could win a war. The ultimate cost in human lives for the Pacific War is just a statistic. A cold, hard statistic that most of the idiots that put Obama in office were never taught by the vaunted American public education system we have today.
As for not being ‘well-read’, especially on politics, I refer to Obama’s employment of Mr. Ayers as his polisci mentor. If he had better sense, he’d have read Machiavelli…..
The point here is that if you live in a largish metropolitan target area…..heh…..heh…..heh…..heh…..heh……
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[There's a storm coming. -- Sarah Connor, Terminator]
Islam is a violent expansionist cult and its Koran tells them not to cease FIGHTING by fair means or foul ( foul is OK as long as its in the cause of Islam) until the WHOLE world is under Islamic control. Of course they wont wipe everyone else out who is going to pay the Jihzas Taxes and do the actual work no Dhimmies will be allowed to survive as long as they know their place as strictly controlled and segregated second class citizens.
So does talking nicely work with a cult like this whose aims are enshrined in their so called Holy Book which they think is the actual unalterable word of their God? Of course not such a cult and civilization must eventually come in to conflict and anyone who tries to pretend otherwise is either a fool or a LIAR. I class the Mohammedan President of America Obambi as the latter.
Really, the operative principle here is very simple. The US should be very accommodating. If you want us as a friend, you will have no better friend. If you prefer to have us as an enemy, you will find no worse enemy.
Yes, that simple. Of course, you must have the means and the will to act. The Democrats want us to have neither.
And the Loony Left hasn’t got a clue.
If there will be peace through weakness it will be an historic first.
The US is weak and Obama is just advertising it better. Bush demonstrated that when he allowed the Iranians and Syrians to send men and material into Iraq to kill our boys and didn’t fire a shot in defense.
What’s the point of having great hardware if you are unwilling to use it?
Bush the first demonstrated peace through strength. And what did it get him?
Barney Frank operated a brothel in his Washington DC town house, helped sink the banking system and is now helping to run GM. What will it get him? Reelected by a landslide in 2010.
America is broken and Obama is a symptom, not the reason.
As usual the naysaysers (racists) are in full force here.
It is so obvious that the RAY-GUN, BUSHIE BOY way of doing things has failed and failed dismally.
Witness the 9/11 attacks that happened on one of the cowboys watches.
The time for a passive approach is now. Didn’t your mothers ever teach you that you attrack more flies with honey than vinegar.
The failed policies of you neo-cons never cease to amaze the intelligent life among us.
Obama is “speaking softly”, but I think he burned the “big stick” in one of the White House fireplaces (or maybe he threw it to the new puppy who buried it in the back yard). He is a disgrace to every American who gave his/her life so that liberty could reign throughout the world.
njcommuter: absolutely correct!
Molester of Moppets. Gets more moppets with honey. Likes them passive.
Pastor of Muppets – Instead of you insipid name calling, why don’t you dazzle us with your brilliance and provide one example of anywhere in the history of human kind where a nation appeased it’s way to peace?
By the way, the word is “attract”, not “attrack”. And we’ve attracted far too many flies to our soon to be rotting carcass. Also, if you’re going to throw out the word “racist”, at least back it up with some facts. I know that you’re a little short on those, but try really hard.
You mention the 9/11 attack during Bush’s watch, yet you fail to mention all of the attacks on us during the esteemed reign of Mr. Clinton (the USS Cole, the first bombing of the World Trade Center, etc.). Why is this?
You and your ilk lack a basic understanding of human psychology. There are people out there that want to do harm to others. These people are not going to be persuaded by kindness, good intentions, or concessions. If they see a weak target, they are going to attack it. We are becoming that weak target.
Weakness never ever brings peace!!!!
The tyrants will exploit President Obama’s weakness in his earnest to throw America under the bus again, again, & again.
AWR has hit the nail on the head. A world of tyrants are watching to see how we’ll handle N.K. and they’re finding no reason go hesitate in their own power grabbing schemes. Our top down weakness encourages them.
I especially appreciate the Beverly Hillbilly’s reference. Thanks Hawkins!
The muslims are actually pretty politically astute. Rather than trash Obama and substantiate their reputation, they applauded his words and his manner but questioned the implementation. They will now look for execution of their perception of his words and not what is best for all parties in a win-win situation.
Frankly, I don’t care about a win-win as my only concern is my country. You’d think that would be the concern of the President as well.
This President does not speak for me…. or any peace loving people…
Many of you come from the same mindset as the Muslims idea of Dar al Islam and Dar al Harb.
You want peace, but peace comes only after those with opposing viewpoints are neutralize.
As Kissinger was fond of saying, though I doubt he originated it,
“Negotiating without leverage isn’t negotiation at all. It’s begging.”
The telepropmter in chief’s speech was is, at the first glance, inconsequential and laden with platitudes like “forging alliances instead of dictating” – yet, after a minimal scrutiny, the speech reveals itself as an act of vain puffery which confirms to those who day-in-day out press the US in disadvantageous positions that their acts will be condoned and not be responded.
Why can’t this poor excuse for a president act like he loves his country? Why can’t he say to the world that we are a noble nation who has tried throughout its history to help others? Why do people from all over the world want to come here? What has he really contributed? The answer as far as I can see is NOTHING. He is a disgrace.
That’s right, Joe. We do help others. If others elect rulers that WE don’t approve of, we “help” them by funding their overthrow. When we pulled such a stunt in Iran in 1953, did it A) “help” the Iranians or B) Destroy our reputation in that region, helping the Islamacists gain traction?
If you clowns truly love the United States, then you should see how a half-century of US meddling in, and occasionally invading countries around the world hasn’t brought peace and respect, it’s simply fulminated hatred of our country.
When the Soviet Union invaded and imposed their system of values on dozens of countries, how did THAT work out for them in the long run?
RE #6 POM: [...] RAY-GUN, BUSHIE BOY way of doing things has failed and failed dismally. Witness the 9/11 attacks that happened on one of the cowboys watches.
The time for a passive approach is now. [...] The failed policies of you neo-cons never cease to amaze the intelligent life among us. [...]
POM, you wretched Soetorotroll:
1) 9/11 was entirely enabled by the Clinton administration and by their “enlightened” policies – the mention of the “Gorelick memo” should suffice for illustrating the dissabling political climate in which the FBI and the CIA were forced to operate during Schmuko’s regime. And since here, can you explain why “The Path to 9/11″ is still unavailable on video?
2) “The time for a passive approach is now.”
We sure saw many idiocies posted by you and your Soeterotrolls here and elsewhere, but this indeed is outstanding – “The time for passive approach!”
What is this? Heavens! Heavens! What is this?
3) Yet, it’s y/yourself who have, unvoluntarily, provided the answer to my marvelling: “The [...] never cease to amaze the intelligent life among us. [...]”
Yes, POM, you manged again to amaze those belonging to the “intelligent life” category -
Now back under your rock, you slimy ACORN creature!
Obama’s speech : I hope he is Lying because if he’s that ignorant then America and the world is in very deep trouble.
I counted 12 (Your me Kidding Right ? ) 6 HE OUGHT TO KNOW BETTERS and 9 He very Stupid or outright lying .
There is one thing quite sad with this President unlike any other President ever .
He has to bash American unfairly to ever made any point ? He gets a F Minus in History in Midddle East especially with America’s role !!!!!! We unlike all of Europe have never “”Colonized ” any of The Middle east he said we did . ENGLAND AND FRANCE AND SPAIN DID THAT NOT AMERICA .
That tells those he talks and AT ! You be should be Leery of America unless HE is running the Show …..
That is Stuoidity , Egoism and Arrogance gone Nuts !
Fine, 21.
So how many troops do you suppose it would require to invade Iran, Venezuela, North Korea while simultaneously defending ourselves from China and Russia who no doubt would side against us if we decided to show how “strong” we were in those three countries?
Sure, tens of millions will be dead, the world economy will be irradiated, but by god, we’ll show them darn furriners how “strong” we are.
When all you have is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail.
RE #20/Erasmus: [...] If you clowns truly love the United States, then you should see how a half-century of US meddling in, and occasionally invading countries around the world hasn’t brought peace and respect, it’s simply fulminated hatred of our country. [...]
Yo, crappy Erasmus knock-off – good old Erasmus was a smart guy and he nicely anticipated in his “Praise of Folly” your silliness.
As far as “When the Soviet Union invaded and imposed their system of values on dozens of countries, how did THAT work out for them in the long run?”
Fool – they all fled in America’s arms when they had the possibility, from Poland to Bulgaria, from Slovakia to Romania and so on and so forth – and this situation continues.
Now, Erry, show us who’s rushing in Russia’s fold – oh yeah, Mugabe, Chavez, Gus Hall, Michael Moore, you, MOP and other creature of the same caliber -
It is not only the military might that gives one nation an edge when confronting another, but moral high ground. Obama has ceded America’s moral advantage by meeting and negotiating on equal terms with despotic tyrants. He compounds his error by foolishly failing to notice the distainful snickers of those same tryants as he turns to wave to his adoring crowds.
24. You’re missing the point. When the Soviet Union dedicated virtually its entire economy to invading other countries and imposing its values on them, not only did they end up going bankrupt and ceasing to exist, their empire collapsed as well.
The point is that the US simply cannot financially afford to militarily attack and occupy every country that looks cross-eyed at us. However, if we want to shed ourselves of any allies at all in the world, by all means, let’s continue down the path of bluster and perma-war.
So much of the campaign was about the breakthrough of a first US female president, a first US black president, and which was it going to be, etc… As long as we have the luxury to indulge in the politics of identity, why not contemplate the first US ignorant president”?
Miracle! The question was not asked, but we got the answer, anyway. Next time around, chose your president carefully.
25. Pardon me, but which specific “despotic tyrant” has Obama “met and negotiated with”?
They say death is peaceful.
RE #28/Erasmus: [...] Pardon me, but which specific “despotic tyrant” has Obama “met and negotiated with”? [...]
Himself, and is and will always fondly negociating w/ himself.
I will point out to you and your readers that it wasn’t just Goldwater. It was JFK, as well.
Then, too, there’s the issue of Obama backing off of our stand on the spread of democracy, which stands in direct contrast to, again, JFK:
It amazes me that the Democrats still hold JFK as an icon, given they’ve turned their back on so much of what he was about.
Those of us who are serious about liberty, freedom, and the simple survival of this nation must think about what our president is doing. Since there is NO PEACE through weakness, what does that leave us? What is in store for this country if our president refuses to use the military to defend us? Or to even use diplomacy to make us look strong? We’ve shown our hand to world, and it ain’t pretty.
TO: Will, et al.
RE: Well….Actually….
….it can bring peace. As in the peace of the grave. Ask the Jews of 1930-40s, Europe.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[History doesn't repeat itself, it has a speech impediment....it stutters.]
31. Of course, in 1953, the Iranians *elected* a leader that the US didn’t approve of, so we financed a coup and installed a dictator, the Shah of Iran in his place. In fact, in the past half century, the US has shown little hesitation to install and support dictators in places like Indonesia, the Phillipines, Nicaragua, Chile, and to an extent Iraq in the name of “spreading democracy”. I guess that “spreading democracy” was so important that we needed to devote untold resources to prevent people in those countries and others from actually enjoying it.
32. There is no Peace through permanent war either. Threatening every country that doesn’t walk lock-step with us with military action gains us neither peace, security, nor respect. Our blustering and bullying merely reinforces the ugly stereotypes that our legitimate enemies have used to gain converts.
One more thing, if “spreading democracy” and “stopping terrorism” is that important, why exactly haven’t we invaded Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is THE epicenter of Islamic extremism as well as being a despotic tyranny. I guess its easier for you fools to talk big and puff your chest when you aren’t willing to walk the walk to match your talk.
“You’ll go much further with a smile and a gun than with just a smile”
Al Capone
Hell, why haven’t we invaded Cuba in the name of “spreading democracy”. What’s the matter, are you afraid that they might fight back?
37. Why not Egypt? They haven’t had a democratic election in decades. I guess we don’t mind having Mubarak as their dictator in the name of “spreading democracy”.
Weakness never brings peace. And, worse, preception of weakness by your enemies certainly will never bring peace.
39. But of course, when all a country has is bluster and bullying, that signifies an intrinsic weakness at the core. Look at 9/11 for instance. 19 people with box cutters financed to the tune of an estimated $500,000 took advantage of an incredibly simple weakness (the cockpit doors not being locked) and pulled off an incredibly devastating attack. In response to this attack, the US has spent an estimated three trillion dollars (borrowed from China) to invade and attack a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. From a cost-analysis standpoint, AQ certainly got the better of us there.
However, in all seriousness, I feel one of the reasons AQ hasn’t hit us again like they did almost 10 years ago is because, frankly, they don’t have to. We’re slitting our own throats by draining our treasury on the nonsensical occupation of Iraq, with the added bonus of betraying our own ideals with a torture program as well as civil rights violations against our own citizens in the name of “security”. Bin Laden didn’t defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan on the battlefield. He simply let them bankrupt themselves so they had no choice but to leave.
He set the same trap with the US, and we stupidly walked right into it.
36. The fact that you’d like US foreign policy to follow the ideals of a notorious mobster would be a lot funnier if you were at all aware of the irony of what you said.
The quick answer? NO.
Weakness for a country is like a leak in a dam and eventually all of the baddies find that little leak and eek their way in.
We are damned.
42. Well, Delia. If you are so scared, answer this. Right now, what countries do you feel that we should militarily attack in order for you to feel safe?
TO: Erasmus
RE: You….
….are truly one ignorant person. If not down-right ‘sick’.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The study of history is the best medicine for a sick mind. -- Livy]
P.S. Do you know who Livy was?
P.P.S. When did you graduate from high school? If you HAVE graduated…..
“Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.”
“If you want peace, prepare for war.”
-Epitoma Rei Militaris, by Vegetius
More recently stated as “Speak softly and carry a big stick.”
TO: Erasmus
RE: Heh
As I said earlier, you REALLY ARE ‘ignorant’.
Why do you think we’re establishing a logistical base in Iraq? Centrally located between the three biggest problem states in the Middle East?
Maybe you should consider studying how to conduct modern warfare. I could suggest a good computer simulation that would help you. In more ways then one.
Got a copy of Civilization IV? I could teach you some ‘lessons’ were we to engage in a game over the internet.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Life is like an analogy.]
46. But, hold on Chuck. Wasn’t the whole invasion of Iraq because of the WMD’s they allegedly had? At the time, who said anything about the US establishing a permanent military presence there? Who said anything about making this a real life version of Civ IV?
Frankly, it takes a certain amount of stones to pretend that Iraq is a free democracy, especially if the aim was to have a psuedo-puppet regime installed in order to allow us to use their country as a launching pad for other invasions.
At least now that you’ve told some truth about why we’re really in Iraq, let’s finally dispense of this notion that the US is owed thanks for all the alturistic things we’ve done for Muslims around the world (see a transcript of Hannity’s GMA appearance).
Chuck
Wouldn’t it have been easier just to establish a giant US military presence in Israel? There would have been no need to invade anyone, it would have been cheaper, and we’d have all our equipment there ready for whatever future invasion we need in the name of oil..err…safety.
Some here would have us forget what led up to 911
Munich Massacre 1972?
Hijhack of the Achille Lauro 1985?
Marine Barracks in Lebanon? 1983?
The World Trade Center 1993?
Khobar Towers 1996?
Nairobi 1998?
East Timor 1999?
USS Cole 2000?
Did all these attacks happen because the US and allies were percieved as strong? Or, because of weak and vacillating leadership?
I’ll leave it to you all to decide…
RE any & all Erasmus/Mop posts (like any Soetorotroll able to serenely accomodate conflicting notions in the port-hats):
How do you reconcile Soetoro’s: “no nation should inflict its own values upon another nation” with his newest pronouncements at Buchenwald”:
“And it is now up to us [...] to resist injustice and intolerance and indifference in whatever forms they may take and ensure that those who were lost here did not go in vain.”
You got an opportunity for some contortions here, guys – so go ahead! After that you can come with the hat for some nickels -
RE #20/Erasmus: [...] “When the Soviet Union invaded and imposed their system of values on dozens of countries, how did THAT work out for them in the long run?”
Erry – they all fled in America’s arms when they had the possibility, from Poland to Bulgaria, from Slovakia to Romania and so on and so forth – and this situation continues.
Now, Erry, show us who’s rushing in Russia’s fold – oh yeah, Mugabe, Chavez, Gus Hall, Michael Moore, you, MOP and other creature of the same caliber -
Your answer?
TO: Erasmus
RE: As I Was Saying….
….you TRULY are ‘ignorant’. And you probably, based on this latest bit on your part, are equally ‘stupid’.
You were the one who suggested invading Saudi Arabia.
How do you propose to do that BETTER from Israel instead of Iraq?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Why don’t you take some extension courses from the US Army War College…..
TO: Erasmus
RE: Heh
What’s the matter, buckie?
Can’t hold onto more than one thought at a time? Truly ‘simple-minded’. No wonder you voted for Obama.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. You never answered my question about graduation from high school. You must still be in the K-12 range…..
Erasmus, where are you getting this “attack to be safe” nonsense? Your distortion of the term strength is what makes your argument misleading. National security, in this country, is accomplished by “hardening the target.” Regardless of what the Obama administration wants you to believe, this is NOT accomplished through “fireside chats”. In an attempt to empathize with the Jihads, he openly proclaims that we are one of the largest islamic countries in the world. Do you honestly believe that Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups with Islamic ties, whose main purposes are to propagate FEAR, will denounce their entire livelihood just because the President of the United States said so? That little part of a terrorists mind which harbors the fear of retaliation just went out the window. Thanks Mr. President.
As for your statement regarding the lack of attacks recently, is it a mortal sin for liberals to admit that MAYBE just maybe that ‘Dubya’ was the reason? No, its always “We tortured them for information. Regardless of what that information was, that’s wrong” or “Obama is just cleaning up his mess.” Get over yourselves and put down the kaleidoscope; look at things for what they are NOT what you want them to be. The greatest act of terrorism ever committed against this country occurred nine months into President Bush’s first term. On 9/12, if someone guaranteed you that there would not be another attack on American soil for the next EIGHT YEARS, what would your response have been?
49.
The Munich Massacre was because the US was perceived as weak? Not because of lingering anger over 1967?
The massacre of the Marines in Lebanon? Hmm..well, Israel did invade their country, look the other way as refugees were slaughtered (Ariel Sharon was convicted in an Israeli court for this after all), and then the US also briefly occupied their country. If you’re going to assert that pulling out of a situation that we should have never been in was weakness, then just how long did you expect the US to militarily occupy Lebanon?
WTC 1993 – the funny thing is that the plotters of that attack were tried in a court of law and sent to prison. Bush’s people didn’t convict a single 9/11 suspect of anything in 8 years.
9/11 happened because the Bush people didn’t take terrorism seriously enough, even when their intelligence briefings said “attack imminent”. Why worry about AQ when there’s brush in Crawford that needs to be cleared.
Either way, the way you define “strength” is nonsensical, unless you’re willing to man up, and post right here on this blog that you are willing to kill billions of people in order to keep conservatives in the US safe.
“Can there be peace through weakness?”
No.
Erasmus, Since when does the Commander in Chief have to disclose EVERY decision in warfare with the PUBLIC? Did Japan know that we were going to drop fusion bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? No, because Truman didn’t hold a press conference and announce to the world that “Because I think the people should know, we have been developing a nuclear weapons program and will attack Japan in 7 days.”
Military officials are TRAINED when and how to make these decisions. Just as you take your car to a mechanic because that is his field of EXPERTISE, we rely on the discretion and decisions of TRAINED officials to keep our nation safe.
54. On 9/12, if you had told the American people that we would have invaded a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, costing over 5,000 solider’s lives and three trillion dollars borrowed from China, you would have been laughed at.
On 9/12 if you had told the American people that our troops would have had the perpetrators of the WTC attack corned at Tora Bora and instead of killing them we would back off and let them go, they would have said that you were nuts.
On 9/12 if you had told people that the definition of “no attacks” would mean ignoring the nearly 1,000 people slaughtered in Bali, London, and Madrid, you would have been started at.
On 9/12 if you would have told the American people that illegally torturing people in 2003 would be cited as providing information that “stopped” an attack in LA that had actually been called off in 2002, they would have said “why aren’t the torturers in prison”
Peace through strength is stupid, idiot, neanderthal vitriol.
RAYGUN and BUSHIE BOY ONE AND TWO led to the attacks.
And GOLDWATER got skunked by one of the greatest presidents of all time: the HONORABLE LYNDON BAINES JOHNSON.
Stupidity is stupidity and neo-con Republicans are the essence of stupidity.
Any questions?
Praise the death of the GOP!!!!!!
Democrat rule forever!!!!!
PRAISE BARRACK OBAMA…The most qualified, most intelligent president in history.
What’s harder? Building bridges or blowing them up?
TO: All
RE: Erasmus FINALLY Identifies His True….
….’Enemy’.
He thinks this is all about ‘politics’. As opposed to national security for EVERY American: conservative, liberal, libertarian, green, Democrat, Republican, Constitutionalist, etcv., etc., etc……
If you don’t think like HIM, you’re an Enemy of HIS state. Just like that idiot Muddleman who thinks that if a nuke goes off in this country, he’s going to blame the “right-wing”. And he’ll likely make up some explanation how ‘right-wing’, i.e., ‘conservative’ people managed to fabricate a nuclear weapon on their own. As opposed to Hezbollah getting one from Iran or North Korea.
These people, as I stated earlier ARE ‘evil’ at heart.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Evil has many 'tools' and lies seem to come readily to them all.]
57. We didn’t drop fusion bombs on any city ever. Little Boy and Fat Man were fission bombs- both 20 kilotons or less. Furthermore, we did warn the Japanese that they faced annihilation if they refused to surrender. We gave them a chance to surrender before attacking Hiroshima, and they refused. We gave them a chance to surrender after attacking Hiroshima, and they refused. We gave them a chance to surrender after Nagasaki, and the Emperor finally said enough, and he broke ranks from the hard liners and sued for peace.
TO: Pat J
RE: Heh
Depends on your depth of ‘vision’, vis-a-vis consequences. Don’t you think? Well….actually….I have SERIOUS doubts about that…..
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[There are advantages and disadvantages to every position you can take. -- CBPelto]
P.S. As an additional thought, consider THIS bit of recent history….
Neville Chamberlain ‘built a bridge’ between England and Nazi Germany……or so he thought…..
59,
Qualified, a community organizer ala ACORN. No CEO/COO experience, an educator of law.
Wants all A students to average their grades with F students so all have D+. Spread the
wealth. And I hope you understand you can not spend more then you make. One day you will
have to pay the piper.
Great piece here Hawkins. Obama lives in a dreamworld that may soon become our nightmare.
TO: HLH, et al.
RE: And….
….how do we ‘thank’ all the idiots who put him there when the nightmare begins?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Whatever became of Neville Chamberlain?
It is just astounding the lack of perception and intelligence demonstrated by the left.
Peace thru Weakness?
Cutting missle defense in the face of NK and Iran missle and nuclear programs is analagous to the Britain cutting figther production in ’37 and ’38. That worked out real well didn’t it?
Erasmus:
We backed off and *let* OBL escape from Tora Bora? Where on earth do you get your history? Apparently the same place that claims the dictator (yes he was) Mossadegh was a democrat, or where Stiglitz got his $3T figure. (Obama and Pelosi blew more money in one day on the Porkulus than on the entire cost of the Iraq War, about $650B)
You want torture? Here’s torture: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0524072torture1.html
61. Of course this is about politics. Modern conservatives don’t give two figs about anyone other than themselves. The pathetic thing is that you guys are never really held accountable for your own words and actions.
Take Bill Kristol, the other day he gave an interview saying that he thinks the US should make targeted military strikes against North Korea. The reporter giving the interview neglected to ask Kristol the two logical followups 1) Then what? 2) Won’t this prompt NK to invade South Korea 3) How do you plan on keeping the Chinese from joining NK in this war? I doubt Billy boy even thought ahead this far, so blinded by the “peace through strength” mantra conservatives have put forth. We want to be strong, we lash out, consequences be damned.
9/11 was ultimately like Christmas for conservatives. By focusing exclusively on fear, it gave conservatives the ultimate excuse to abdicate their responsibilities to actually GOVERN the United States. Day to day governing on the domestic side is tedious and not always instantly rewarding, but with the WAR ON TERROR BOOO I’M AFRAID, you get to puff your chest, kill some brown people, and pretend you’re John Freaking Wayne. Never mind that you haven’t done a damn thing to actually make the world a better place by shooting first and thinking second.
You say you believe in democracy, unless you need a friendly dictator to stay in power. You say you believe in human rights, except for people you THINK might be terrorists. You say you want limited government, unless you need to eavesdrop on citizens’ phone calls without a warrant. You say you want the government to stay out of your life, unless you happen to be gay. You say you want all Americans to have the American dream, but call people who are forclosed “losers”. You scream “socialism” when CEO salaries are scrutinized, but DEMAND that blue collar workers take pay cuts. You claim that the US is a land where anyone can practice any religion, as long as its Christian. You rail against science, because it contradicts the edicts of words written by bronze age goat herders.
In short, conservatives are thickheaded, inadequate frauds. You are the worst kind of authoritarian bullies, and it’s a shame that AQ gave you guys a blank check to kill thousands upon thousands of innocent people in the name of “security”.
Peace through weakness? Sure! It’s called Surrender. There are few places on Earth more peaceful than a graveyard.
TO: All
RE: Are You Getting This?
WE’RE NOT HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
Obama lies his ass off during the run-up to the election. Hangs with people who curse America and/or want to kill 25 million of US.
And WE’RE the ones who are not held ‘accountable’.
Erasmus is high on colored chalk dust and projecting his problems on the rest of US.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. And it REALLY pisses him off when we point out his idiocy and lies……doesn’t it…..
P.P.S. I really like the projection about religious practices. In truth he doesn’t want ANYONE to practice christianity. So he projects that we all want force everyone else to follow OUR creed. But in truth, the Muslims of the militant kind, would cut his throat if he didn’t take their oath.
I have yet to see a christian offer to do that to him…..
TO: All
RE: Erasmus….
…STILL hasn’t answered a SINGLE question I’ve asked of him over the last few hours.
Typical ‘progressive’ icehole. Asks LOTS of questions. Seldom answers any.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....and corksuckers like Erasmus aren't going to like it.....]
with pres. o running around the world kissing everybodies butt, maybe we should call him poopie lips o.
73. Chuck Pelto:
—————
Maybe it’s because he just doesn’t like you.
28: Iran’s Ahmadinejad and Venezuela’s Chavez to name two. Of course, you, Erasmus, might consider them moderates if you voted for Obama.
When Erasmus is confronted with the facts of Islamic terrorists’ murder of Israeli athletes during the 1972 Munich he counters with his perception that Islamofascists were simply plagued with “lingering anger” orver the 1967 war. Perhaps Erasmus has forgotten (or never knew) who started the 1967 Middle Eastern War? Or what happened to the aggressors? The same thing that will happen to them when they attack the next time.
76. Pardon me, but we haven’t “met and negotiated” with either of those chaps. A 10 second handshake with Chavez doesn’t count in this framework.
69. We did back off at Tora Bora. That’s why we didn’t capture Bin Laden. You know that. I know that. We all know that. Then, instead of pursuing him, Bush et. al turned their sights on Iraq and could have given two figs about it.
72. Jesus, Chuckles. Playing the Rev. Wright card? You do know that Rev. Wright did serve his country with honor in Vietnam. My guess is the closest you came to serving was when you went back for seconds at Old Country Buffet.
As for the religion question, I don’t give a rat’s behind what religion you practice. However, no religion should be the official religion of this country, and no religion should dictate to the SECULAR state how to conduct its business. As a Catholic, it pains me to see my Protestant brethren whining like little infants when they don’t get their posteriors kissed by store clerks each Christmas, and go running to Fox News with tears running down their fat faces because a the cashier said “Happy Holidays”. Then, when they’re done hyperventilating about that perceived offense, they’re screaming at a science teacher for teaching their kids that the earth is billions of years old and revolves around the sun.
68. It’s been nearly 30 years since missile defense was proposed and research began. How many decades will have to pass before you scientific illiterates realize that such a system simply will not work? Does the phrase “Maginot Line” mean anything to you, goober?
76. Saltherring:
28: Iran’s Ahmadinejad and Venezuela’s Chavez to name two. Of course, you, Erasmus, might consider them moderates if you voted for Obama.
———————
That’s funny. He met Chavez briefly. And Chavez being Chavez tried to take advantage of things. But he’s never met Ahmadinejad and has negotiated with neither.
Got a question for you. When you were in high school, and the bullies would beat the crap out of the geeky kids or the Freshman, what did you think about them?
Did you think
A) “Wow. What strong and principled people. If they were to hold back from beating people up, I might think that they’re weak”.
B) “What, what a-holes”
The point is that strength is much more than the ability to pulverize someone. It’s a shame you subliterates and defectives can’t see beyond your own fists.
74. no name: . . . “with pres. o running around the world kissing everybodies butt, maybe we should call him poopie lips o.”
And I had the guts to say conservatives have no sense of humor. I stand corrected.
TO: Pat J
RE: Could Be….
….but I’d rather he liked telling the truth, instead of being a pathological liar.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Look upon it as 'tough love'.]
P.S. And it looks like I’m not the only one calling a spade a ‘spade’ vis-a-vis Erasmus…..
TO: Erasmus
RE: Yeah….
….is that the same country he called down curses from God upon? For 20 years afterwards?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[One aw-shit wipes out a thousand attaboys. -- US Army axiom]
TO: Erasmus
RE: THAT….
…wasn’t a question about religion I was asking you idiot. It was a statement. There’s something of a difference. Or haven’t your English classes taught you that yet? No big surprise there.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. So you haven’t answer any of the questions I’ve asked you today, YET, as far as I can tell.
Can there be “peace through weakness”? Well, with Obama as President we’re about to find out.
Missle Defense ineffective? Are you kidding me? Have you heard of the Patriot missle system? I won’t even waste my time posting DoD links to the 2007-08 ballistic missle intercepts.
With his bully vs geek analogy, Erasmus has officially “jumpled the shark.
75. Pat J:
“73. Chuck Pelto:
—————
Maybe it’s because he just doesn’t like you.”
~
You act as if that’s a bad thing. Being ‘liked’ is the Libtard Mantra. If ‘everyone’ likes me, the world will go ’round and birds will tweet and butterflies will flutter and unicorns will prance and fairy dust will…well, you get the end of the ‘rainbow’ idea. It just doesn’t ‘jive’ in the real world.
There are plent of people who don’t like my POV including people from the right and middle. I ‘get’ that. Do you?
TO: AThinkingPerson, et al.
RE: I See the Scenario….
….as ‘Appeasement’.
Just like good ole Neville practiced it.
The end result will be, in essence, the same…..
…..millions dead.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. The question becomes, what will we do with our latter-day Neville after he is run out of office?
Appeasement is just another word for throwing the USA and ISRAEL under the bus while bowing and scraping before Islam and ultimately telling Muslims ‘it’s okay to carry on your bararic practices as long as it is your religion’, women, wear your hijab because, yaknow, it’s your religon *cough* and you’re not forced to by your whack society *cough-cough*.
Yeah, we get it Borat DohBama.
You speak out of both sides of your mouth.
Who made the ‘law’ for which women have to ‘cover’? Men. -And, yet…you ‘act’ as if you’re for women’s rights under Islamic rule? You’ve got to be effing full on nutters, child! NUTTERS.
54. On 9/12, if you had told the American people that we would have invaded a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, costing over 5,000 solider’s lives and three trillion dollars borrowed from China, you would have been laughed at.
On 9/12 if you had told the American people that our troops would have had the perpetrators of the WTC attack corned at Tora Bora and instead of killing them we would back off and let them go, they would have said that you were nuts.
On 9/12 if you had told people that the definition of “no attacks” would mean ignoring the nearly 1,000 people slaughtered in Bali, London, and Madrid, you would have been started at.
On 9/12 if you would have told the American people that illegally torturing people in 2003 would be cited as providing information that “stopped” an attack in LA that had actually been called off in 2002, they would have said “why aren’t the torturers in prison”
Again, as Mr. Pelto points out so well, your understanding of hypothetical situations is clearly a result of your inadequate English. As much as the left wants to belief the Bush conspiracy theories on god-knows-what, our government didn’t hijack four airplanes and kill thousands of Americans. Your examples attempt to predict the actions of our government based on what from 9/11? Predictability comes from the knowledge of previous outcomes. The only outcome we had on 9/11 was that a terrorist organization, NOT our government, attacked us. Therefore, you cannot provide hypothetical examples for possible governmental actions when you have no previous outcomes to draw a hypothesis from.
On 9/12, if someone told you that in 2009 the government would own 60% of GM, what would you have said?
Do you see the link of irrelevance now?
According to Jimmy Carter, and the rest of the CFR momma babies, there can be.
Of course, they live in the New Order of the Ages where everyone is good inside. The rest of us live on planet Earth.
Over.
This is the flaw of the Left.Conspiracy theories.Whats ironic is AQ knows it and exploits it.If the Left has so much EVIDENCE then bring into court in the U.S.Enough bullshit already.And if they dont have evidence well then there goes the Leftist arguement -out the window.
To him who shall not be named…. Get a freakin’ job! or you might be a unionized GM employee that can’t be fired for spouting their swill on the internet when they could be out making crappy cars.
Rather than speculate this, that and the other let’s stick to the facts:
-Muslims (especially Al Qaeda) hate us
-The US has screwed up in the past as to how it has handled international affairs
-What we have done in the past has nothing to do with what we are to do now. This is a new war with a new enemy that requires new strategy, thought and resources
Erasmus:
I stand corrected on my comment regarding an Obama/Ahmadinejad meeting. It was actually the Saudi King Obama bowed to, rather than the Iranian dictator. Got my despotic trrants mixed up.
95. Saltherring:
“I stand corrected on my comment regarding an Obama/Ahmadinejad meeting. It was actually the Saudi King Obama bowed to, rather than the Iranian dictator. Got my despotic trrants mixed up.”
~
Heh. So many dictators to bow to and so little time [well, as long as they are Muslim...]. You know those peaceful gay hatin’, women’s right hatin’, freedom to think hatin ‘religion’.
Yay ISLAM. ALLA peanut butta SANDwich.
No. Not funny. Me no likey.
“one of the greatest presidents of all time: the HONORABLE LYNDON BAINES JOHNSON.”
Yet more proof that liberalism is a mental illness.
FOR: resident PJM Soeterotrolls “Folly’s Chosen One” (dba Erasmus) and Sheeskebob -
Still, an answerr for: how do you reconcile Soetoro’s: “no nation should inflict its own values upon another nation” with his newest pronouncements at Buchenwald”:
“And it is now up to us [...] to resist injustice and intolerance and indifference in whatever forms they may take and ensure that those who were lost here did not go in vain.”
You got an opportunity for some contortions here, guys – so go ahead! After that you can come with the hat for some nickels -
TO: Dave Surls, et al.
RE: Indeed
….the man who lied about the Gulf of Tonkin Incident to get US into Viet Nam and lose 58,000 American lives…..
….and lay the ground work for the current fiasco as president.
They are indeed, mental defectives…..
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Liberals aren't. Progressives won't.]
PASTOR OF MUPPETS: There are realities in life. One of the realities is that there are despots, murderers, would-be conquerors. Always have been, always will be. Your do not understand human nature. You obviously never will. Obama and the American people can say “I’m sorry” a million times over. We can apologize over and over for wrongs we have not committed. We can poor billions and billions into the cofers of Arab nations and people. We can denounce Israel. But no matter what grievance, real or imagined, we or Obama attempts to remedy, There will be very dangerous people, very dangerously armed, willing to spread terror and war. Only strength and a clear willingness to use it, AND A CLEAR WILLINGNESS TO BELIEVE IN YOUR STRENGTH, will hold off the would-be conquerors. I know you do not understand this. I understand that you are feeble in that regard.
Yes! Great piece on the danger of being weak by choice. We are damning ourselves to mediocrity via Obama.
If you want peace prepare for war.
from what I remembered every one hated Lyndon Baines Johnson. They were sure glad when he resigned back in ’67.
#81 Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeesh, hey boooooooooy! Wuzup!
So you think it takes “guts” to say that conservatives have no sense of humor? ummmmmmmmmmmmmm, yeah
AP: “A criminal complaint says 48-year-old John Zaubler called 911 Saturday and said he was going to kill Sotomayor by “blowing her up” because he did not want his girlfriend to go to federal prison. The complaint also says he wanted to kill Obama by “blowing him up.”
See? You people don’t need GUNS. You can just blow people up . . . blow em up real good.
“Peace through weakness.” Kind of like “Virginity through sex.”
What The One doesn’t get–or maybe he does, and all the bowing, kissing, bending over, and so on, is just an act for the Obamatrons–is that the goal of Islam is world domination. Conversion by the sword, or “voluntarily” when the sword is held at your throat.
The United States, and every country that is not ruled by Sharia law, and the people, are “infidels” and must convert, or be killed.
They love our porn and booze, but it’s okay for them because they have a greater goal.
Surf around this site, it’s worth it:
the truth about Islam
@88. Delia:
Oh hell yeah I get that. For instance, I can’t stand Pelto’s insipid memos and his myopic viewpoints. But I do respect his service to our country as a former paratrooper.
69. Bohemond:
Looked at the pictures…I’ll take door #2..waterboarding.
I see nothing good whatsoever coming out of the next three and a half years of this presidency and his party’s dominance. For matters of foreign policy, I think I’ll just listen to the occasional words of John Bolton and try to shut my ears to the din that emanates from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. I’ll rejoice when that shuck and jive show is ushered out of town in January of 2013. It can’t come soon enough.
Well 4 months and I’d say the boy wonder is off to a good start.
Alienate closest strategic allies: United Kingdom, France, Germany, Israel, Colombia, Canada, Japan, Mexico, Poland, Ukraine, Georgia – Check
Cozy up to anti American dictators: Venezuela (Chavez), Cuba (castro), Nicaragua (Ortega), Iran (Ahmadinejad,) Syria (Assad), – check
Blatantly appease anti American aggressor countries: DPRK (Lil Kim) Russia – check
Gut American defenses – check
Suck up to the Chinese dictatorship so they subsidize him – check
Grovel to the Muslim enemy – check
Turn America’s economy and race relations into Zimbabwes’ – check
This would all be a novelty but we’ve seen this movie before; it was called Jimmah Carter. Peanut Farmer extraordinaire. And we all know how that ended.
Although in defense of Carter he at least had enough honor and patriotism to wear his nation’s military uniform. This current dirtbag however… boy wonder indeed.
Erasmus:
“69. We did back off at Tora Bora. That’s why we didn’t capture Bin Laden. You know that. I know that. We all know that. Then, instead of pursuing him, Bush et. al turned their sights on Iraq and could have given two figs about it.”
That’s absolute bullshit. Where do you get this stuff? In December 2001 the only forces we had in-country were a handful of Special Operators, leading a gaggle of unreliable Northern Alliance troops. The passes into Pak were wide open and we didn’t have the personnel to close them. We begged- begged- the Germans to deploy thier own SpecOps there, but Berlin wouldn’t countenance going anywhere actual fighting might be occurring. We then proposed air-sowing GATOR mines to close the passes, but NATO vetoed that.
So between Dec 14 and Dec 16 OBL slipped over the border.
Again, where on earth do you get this “backed off” crap? Huffpo? Daily Kos?
1. Obama and Chávez.
2. Obama and “preventative detention” and his DHSs’ definition of extremists
3. Obama and FISA
4. Obama and gay marriage
5. Obama and pitchforks
6. Obama vs market realism
7. Obama and his “practicing Christianity” or whatever
8. Obama and the AGW (now called “climate change”) scam
Honestly, this isn’t an echo chamber of the left. People here do understand the world, its ways, its workings and the nature and existence of evil. All of these eight points could be expounded upon at length, but the people here–collectivists notwithstanding–understand the meanings behind these headlines, so I’m not going to bother, except to say that #2 is the scariest, especially when taken with his friendship with Billy Ayers whose view it was (and maybe still is) that 25 million Americans (“diehard capitalists”) who wouldn’t submit to reeducation would have to be exterminated.
Peace through strength works on political problems both big and small. An example on how it works on a relatively small global crisis can be seen with the Falkland Islands War fought in 1982. During that war, a small dictator from Argentina named Leopoldo Galtieri tried to take the Falkland Islands back from Great Britain through the use of force, invading the islands and taking the British inhabitants there hostage. Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, in one of her finest moments, declared that this blatant use of force would not stand and she sent the Royal Navy over 8,000 miles south to take the territory back for Great Britain. Though costly in terms of lives (and ships) lost, Britain managed to win the war and take the islands back. Not only did Thatcher stand up to a petty dictator and win, but the Galtieri government fell soon after the war ended. The war showed that dictators, both large and small, tend to lose once people stand up to them and say, “Enough.” I think we should all send Obama a book on the Falkland Islands war. It may help him navigate through this crisis with North Korea, and the one that’s coming with Iran. Are any democrats out there listening?
Time for the good doctor to impart a lesson:
Peace is not merely an absence of war.
Peace is the result of having won the war against those who would disturb the peace by imposing their will by means of governmental force, on others who wouldn’t have it.
The absence of war-making capability is in fact the imposition of slavery on the defenseless.
TO: Eric Florack, et al.
RE: True!
As the tried and true adage goes….
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Soooooo…..
…..who does Obama want us to ‘plow’ for?
Ditto to comment #100. Said it plain and simple. Like it or not, this is the reality of the world.
BTW, to those who post mocking comments minimizing the concerns of many of us here, I would ask: Do you honestly feel that diplomacy and making nice would have worked with _____ (fill in the blank from history; if you have no ideas, I’ll get you started with a couple: Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini…Pol Pot…)?
Can peace be achieved through weakness? No, contrary to what the liberals would tell us although I don’t think they can actually point to any instance in which it’s been the case.
If everyone under the sun is going to end up with nuclear weapons, I suppose the US better strengthen the peace by arming itself with even more devastating weapons. Perhaps we should dust off the neutron bomb.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
What good is Jesus if his words are rubbed in the dirt? Peace comes from one person putting the gun down.
If after 9/11 we did nothing the world would be on our side.
TO: acj
RE: Yeah….
….the peace of the grave.
And that’s proven every day in places where the government requires all the law-abiding citizens to “put their gun down”. Then come violent home invasions, the street crime, etc., etc., etc…..
Too bad your too stupid to recognize that.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not. -- Thomas Jefferson]
What can I expect from war-mongering Republicans?
A sword in one hand and a cross in the other-”For GOD and Country” you people are comparable to the Taliban.
Peace must happen by making everyone drop their weapons. George Bush started and arms race by naming the 3 axis of evils and then invaded one of them-what are the other 2 going to do but prepare to defend itself with weapons….Don’t leave peace deals to the Republicans, because they profit from the military industrial complex.
Hey, Sarah Palin forgot to mention she can see North Korea from her house….that must have caused a stir!~
TO: All
RE: What CAN He Expect?
Question:
Answer: The ability to speak your mind without fear of retribution.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Sleep well tonight, knowing that rough men are prepared to do violence in your defense.]
P.S. I had a similar situation with a member of my church choir in the mid-80s.
I was on active duty. And I’d come direct form duty to do rehearsal. So I’d show up in Battle-Dress Uniform (BDU).
One time, one of the other baritones asked me why I was in a profession that killed people.
I replied, “Just so you can insult me without fear of retribution.”
He said, “Good answer.”
A week later he stopped showing up for rehearsals.
A month later, he was no longer showing up for worship services at the church.
Maybe that’s a good thing….in light of what happened to Tiller…..
TO: All
RE: What Was It I Was….
That’s why he’s not dead already….eh?
With all this ‘tech’ and all this ‘ability’. And yet….oddly enough….
…acj….for some VERY STRANGE REASON….is STILL ALIVE!!!!
We must be so much worse, technologically speaking than the ‘Taliban’….not to have ‘offed’ this ‘little bugger’ by now.
What could POSSIBLY explain our rank incompetence??!?!??!??!
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....and acj is looking VERY 'stupid'.....]
P.S. TO: acj….
….I’ll bet you thought nobody was ‘looking’…..