Can One Wrong Death Bring Down Corrupt Las Vegas?
You don’t want to commit a crime in Las Vegas — at least not on TV. On the tube, you’ll be relentlessly pursued by a group of young, beautiful, highly educated and competent crime scene investigators who work in gleaming glass and steel labs surrounded by state of the art equipment that would make MIT green with envy. So ethical and competent are they — and the police force they serve — that if a molecule of evidence exists in the known universe, they’ll find it and brilliantly use it against a suspect to talk them into a tearful confession.
In the real world of Las Vegas, life is less attractive. The Erik Scott shooting of July 10, 2010, is like an episode of The Twilight Zone, with multiple, inexplicable plot twists. In the real world of Las Vegas, citizens share one striking fear with contemporary Egyptians: They fear for their lives at the hands of their police force. They may have good reason to do so.
For those who have not been following the Scott case, a visit to the Confederate Yankee archive where all of my articles on the case are stored (here) will be worth your time. The behavior of the police and all related agencies and governmental entities reads like a textbook outlining how not to conduct criminal justice business. Journalists often employ hyperbole, calling the petty and mundane “shocking” or “unbelievable” to sell their product. The facts and probabilities you’ll find in the archives on this case truly are shocking and unbelievable. They sell themselves.
On July 10, 2010, Erik Scott and his girlfriend, Samantha Sterner, were shopping at the Summerlin Costco in Las Vegas. Store employees noticed Scott’s concealed handgun when his shirt rode upward as he stooped to inspect merchandise. Alarmed by this, and by what they thought was some unusual behavior, they told him that concealed weapons weren’t allowed in the store, despite the fact that no signs were posted to notify the public. Scott told them that he was licensed and several employees spoke with him. None actually asked him to leave.
Shai Lierley, store security officer, called 911, and the chain of events leading to Scott’s death began. Lierley and the dispatcher to whom he spoke made serial mistakes, escalating the situation in the minds of responding officers far beyond any reasonable response. What should have been handled by a single officer merely approaching and speaking with Scott turned into a massive police response that included a helicopter. Despite having more than sufficient time to employ reasonable, smart tactics — tactics that would be employed by any professional, competent law enforcement agency — the Metropolitan Police behaved as rank neophytes incapable of using common sense or proper tactics.
As the officers rushed to the Costco and milled aimlessly about upon arriving, Lierley was following Scott and Sterner, relaying his observations to the dispatcher who was apparently not relaying timely information to the officers. Rather than identifying and isolating Scott, the police ordered the store evacuated, and Scott and Sterner, like everyone else, calmly walked toward the front doors with the crowd.
Scott walked past several officers posted at the front door and was so unremarkable that they ignored him — ignored him that is, until Lierley hastily pointed him out to Officer William Mosher, 38, who had then been on the force for approximately five years and one month. Despite the fact that Scott and Sterner were essentially in the middle of a crowd of people, Mosher drew his weapon and confronted Scott. Immediately, Officers Thomas Mendiola (23, then with about 1 year and four months on the force) and Joshua Stark (28, then with about one year and 11 months on the force) also drew their weapons and yelled contradictory commands at Scott. According to witnesses, he was very surprised.
Scott had only a few seconds to live. From the moment the officers began screaming their contradictory commands until Mosher fired two rounds (one striking Scott in the chest and one in the thigh), only approximately two seconds elapsed. Despite Metro claims that Scott drew his gun and pointed it at them (still in its holster!), it is highly likely that Scott had no time to do anything, and that the only item in his hand was his BlackBerry, which was found by his body. Caught by surprise — by their own admission, having no idea who had fired — Mendiola fired four rounds into Scott’s back and Stark fired one as bystanders within arm’s reach screamed and dove for cover.
Does Dayton Ohio allow concealed carry?
Shortly YES!
That was my first thought, too.
This exact story (with a few name changes) will soon be replayed in Dayton. The DOJ’s ruling that Dayton PD candidates who receive failing scores (repeat: FAILING scores) on initial written exams must be allowed to progress in the screening process has “innocent civilians killed” and “tragedy waiting to happen” written all over it.
As President Obama might say the “police acted stupidly”.
Machoism…a big problem all over unfortunately. I grieve for the loss of this young man.
It’s more than that, organized crime has infected government. Public unions are the enablers. Police have learned that that they will not be held accountable for mistakes no matter how egregious nor how many. All they have to do is claim personal safety issues and the the sheep line up and… Bbbbbbaaaaaahhhhhh.
Wow!! Glad I don’t live in Vegas. . . . sounds like maybe this time the stuff that happens in Vegas ain’t staying there. . . . . I have friends in LE on the city and county level, and they all seem to have a distrust of the new guys coming up through the ranks. . . .They have independently said the same thing- the newbies are lacking in common sense and seem willing to escalate a situation to the next level at the slightest provication.As for me, any interaction with any officers I don’t know is done very carefully, with me doing nothing that can even be perceived as a threat. The first thing I do is give them my CWP card, and usually it goes ok from there. . . .
This is simply a criminal gang.
and , and…there appears to be more to the story than the author has stated.
Police were wrong first time i read the story, they are till wrong…and should be put in jail.
.. Along with anyone in gov, unions etc that are supporting this travesty
Las Vegas used to be a place I would like to visit someday, but the re-election of Harry Reid and the murder of Mr. Scott have made it a place I’ll probably never visit.
And would someone please explain to me why our Federal Justice Deparment under Eric Holder and Barack Obama are suing an Ohio City Police department to force them to hire cops who fail to pass the required police examination.
The US Justice Department is using our tax payer dollars to sue a major Ohio city to FORCE THE CITY TO hire black police officers who fail the required exam to serve on the police force. Affirmative action is killing Americans.
Write your congressman and explain to them that unless they act to bring this renigade Justice Department under control we will have to vote each of them out of office in 2012.
Well First off costco states in their membership paper work that it is a “weapon” free zone they as a company do not even allow LTC people to carry in the store or on company property. That is why I canceled my membership when they started enforcing it. That is the place that this started this tragedy, given a reason by “corporate” to fear all guns. Caused the mentality of “no one with guns” started the whole snowball that caused this man to die wrongfully.
The police no doubt committed it but it started with Costco head quarters.
What do you expect from a city that elected the Mafia’s primary defense attorney mayor for as long as they could, by overwhelming majority both times? The City of Las Vegas lives by different rules, and always has. The LAW is what they say it is. When the Mafia really ran the city, this incident never would have happened; they kept everyone in line. Low crime rates, safe streets without gangs, and a police force that had the most boring job in town. Now, with them mostly gone, gangs run wild, drug trafficking is rampant, and whatever goes is OK. I fully expect the harrassment of Scott’s father to increase, or he may even be removed from the equation. Scott’s girlfriend will be even further attacked and can expect some type of trumped up charges to be created by the parties involved. Attorneys who get involved on the Scott’s side can expect harrassment from the authorities that you will not believe. The reason all this corruption exists is because of the corruption of the Fourth Estate–the selling out by the press who no longer fight the good fight for the citizens that read their drivel. Instead, they have sold themselves to the Devil as well. With an honest press, none of this could have gone this route.
I will not spend a penny in Nevada, let alone Las Vegas until someone can prove to me that the elections there are held even halfway honestly. I don’t believe that Harry Reid could win an honest election.
Costco forbids guns in all of their stores even though Costco doesn’t post the required ‘No Guns Allowed’ signage as usually required by law.
Been through that headache with the Costo in Winchester Va. When I called Costcos area manager and asked about their gun policy the area manager gave me a real rotten attitude and hung up in my face.
Bottom line, avoid Costco’s if you value your Second Amendment rights and Freedoms. Walmart and Sams Clubs welcome gun owners, so far, without any hassles.
I have a Concealed Carry license and openly pack a .44 mag wheelgun so I can sniff out Second Amendment friendly mechants rather quickly…
“I have a Concealed Carry license and openly pack a .44 mag wheelgun so I can sniff out Second Amendment friendly mechants rather quickly…”
Any woman who uses the phrase “wheelgun” has to be a patriot!
My wifes name is Jennifer, too
Bless you my dear!
you’re kidding right? Just play dumb and spend your money with a company that doesn’t respect your constitutional right to self-defense? You sir (or Madam), are an idiot!
I make it a point to a) stay out of any shop with a no gun sign. I will not give them my money. b)I always let them know why in writing. Often, the no gun sign has come down.
And yes, I drive instead of fly. I’ve written all the airlines to let them know why they will not get my money until they stand up and fight back against the madness that is TSA.
Carrying doesn’t make you a patriot. Defending your constitutional rights is more than just running your mouth. It’s a daily effort to do the right thing, for the right reason, suffer the consequences including fewer shopping options, and live with a clear connscience.
Virginia does not require that any signs be posted. If they don’t post a sign, and you carry into the place, you cannot be prosecuted for trespassing. UNLESS they see your weapon and ask you to leave. At THAT POINT you have been legally informed of their policy and must leave or you are guilty of trespass. If there IS a sign posted, you are guilty of trespass as soon as you enter, so they can call the police without saying a word to you.
You, of course, did the bull-headed thing and asked. Since you are now legally informed, you cannot carry in Costco.
Instead, you could have just kept quiet and gone about your business without advertising your weapon.
I lived in LV some four years ago. At that time some guy who did some sniping at cars on Ohio highways was the news. He was news and a lot of people were looking for him. He was spotted by a man in a bar in LV, identified because of a TV report. Said man called Metro, no response. The man followed the alleged shooter for four hours from bar to bar calling Metro one dozen times, count them, twelve times. Finally, four hours later Metro came out and said, “Oh, yeah, that’s a guy we need to arrest.”
Another time 18 “youths” went on a rampage attacking several people just behind and in the parking lot of two of the casinos. By chance it came to the notice of the newspaper because the police tried to cover it up.
There’s more but you get the pictue.
One can probably imagine the number of Casino’s, Stores that are under immense pressure to pay protection money for their property, Personal life outside of their work and also for their families that the Metro Police it would seem are up to their eye balls in scams, laundering of money and any number of crimes yet uncovered. If there as willing to cover up such a blanant crime, along with the crime scene, evidence I as well as many others would be very suspecting of potentially more crimes up to & including possibly the FBI… It will definitely be very interesting to see how this all ends if nothing else this surely is going to make a great book and Mini series one day ??
“Can One Wrong Death Bring Down Corrupt Las Vegas?”
No.
This case makes me ill. It’s just reprehensible. This is like, Chicago, corrupt.
I’m curious – was Erik Scott white? I assume by the lack of outrage from Al S. and Jesse J. and the CBC and Eric Holder that he must have been. Otherwise the NAACP and the other race baiters would have descended upon Las Vegas like a plague of locusts.
Younailedit.Hmmm.PJMnotacceptingspacecharacters
Or your keyboard was acting up.
Dear David W:
Erik Scott’s photograph accompanies this article. Scott was white and had red hair. Considering the many articles by former DOJ attorneys appearing in these pages, it is reasonable to assume that the Obama/Holder DOJ has less than no interest in pursuing an investigation into the death of a white man in the Senate Majority Leader’s backyard.
Everything about Nevada is corrupt. The entire state is controlled by organized crime from Chicago. Las Vegas is the focus of everything in Nevada. Why should there be any surprise when we learn of corruption in the police force and coroner’s office? The only surprise here is the incredible incompetence they displayed.
While I lived in Vegas in the 90′s, the old-timers would lament the fact that the city ISN’T run mob any longer. The Mafia has a very low tolerance for incompetence, unlike politicians.
Sadly, there’s some truth to that. If the mob still ran everything they would not allow the cops to be so visitor-unfriendly. Politicians, on the other hand, can not see past the next election cycle. “Kick the can down the road” is their way of life.
As a former cop I can tell you that, although his kind of nonsense is nothing new, this case is the perfect storm. NVPD has been a joke since it was a mob run town but this one really takes the cake. My old department had a second rate cover-up following a botched murder investigation (not police involved). The administration survived but the tragedy was not wasted. Numerous changes were made and the department was better for it. A few months ago however the chief of police (the 4th one since that incident in the early 80s) was fired for DWI.
New Orleans PD went through two similar cathartic moments one in the 80s and post Katrina. They are still problematic but does seem to have gotten better.
Until cities screen, train and compensate properly this will be an on going problem. No quotas, no skewed promotion scores, no double standards. Hire the best candidates and hold them to the higher expected of people entrusted with so much authority.
My town, Maywood, CA used to have the reputation of hiring cops that had bad shoots in other towns.
Finally after the recent election the police force was fired. All of them. All other city workers were also fired. We now use the county Sheriffs as our law, and they tend to be capable. Part of their screening process is 5 years spent working in the County Jail, to become familiar with the difference between honest people and criminals. We don’t have any peace officers with a year on the job (part of which is in the police academy) in uniforms on our streets.
Just south of us is Bell, whose former city manager and city councilmen are being prosecuted for corruption.
The officers and union officials that stand behind not answering the courts need to be put in jail until they can realize they are public officials and answerable to the public.
They killed an innocent man , tried to cover it up, and their corrupt union is helping them. This is wrong in so many ways
Unless Scotts Death resonates with another (federal) agency with the kind of grandstanding and exploitation and P.R.oportunities that drive egomaniacal careers of our “servants”, nothing will come of this.
He was White, and an army vereran…two strikes against him for the media to care, or for any ambitious Agency Director to make hay from. There can be no P.C. driven agenda in dredging up the details of this case, so it will not occur.
Government exists to serve itself, not us. If someone in Government could “make” a career by exposing this, and advertising the uber-compentecy of THEIR agency to protect women, minorities, etc, from evil white men, thus requiring more, ahem, “support” (read: taxes) for this vital task, it would have been done already.
But it hasent, and it wont. Incompetent cops dont get investigated by anyone unless there is another “grievence camp” to hang their hides in, score political points, and gain face/name recognition for the next step in their Government Tool Career.
Incompetent cops tend to remind us of our overall incompetent government in general. Without a crusade of obfuscation for some fashionable cause, its not in the governments best interest to remind us their foot soldiers are ignorant jackasses.
If the Government itself cannot gain something from this case, its closed.
Recruits failing a basic academy throughout the nation are routinely fired. The inability to successfully complete a basic academy is commonly considered to indicate a lack of the most rudimentary abilities necessary to successfully function as a police officer.
A friend of mine went through the local police academy and failed. He was allowed to re-apply and made it through the course successfully where he now a supervisor.
You would have told him that he lacked the prerequisite and “rudimentary abilities” to be a successful law enforcement officer.
Now, if you are actually wondering why he failed the course, it was that his military unit was called up and went to Iraq.
Is it your position that a person that is serving his country and is called up during his training lacks the “rudimentary abilities” to be in law enforcement?
People are removed from training and allowed to return all the time. If a person cannot complete the physical training due to an injury, they are often allowed to return. If a person misses too many days due to a prolonged illness or death in the family, they are allowed to return.
I am not going to defend what happened in this case. It is simply indefensible.
At the same time, the author makes a blanket statement without all the facts. The cops who shot and killed Scott went to the scene without information and jumped to conclusions. The author does the same thing here. The difference in the shooting and part of this article is the actions following the error.
Yet the actual error of factual ignorance and trying to distort that lack of facts into a preconceived narrative is the same in the article and the shooting.
The author states that the circumstances of the failure are important. Obviously a military deployment should not prevent re-application. The horrid judgement displayed in this case certainly does.
Do you not think that this paragraph reaches a conclusion that is not supported by any facts given in the article or known by the author?:
Recruits failing a basic academy throughout the nation are routinely fired. The inability to successfully complete a basic academy is commonly considered to indicate a lack of the most rudimentary abilities necessary to successfully function as a police officer. Yet Mendiola was apparently allowed to try again. Why? A recruit who shows no common sense or judgment in shoot/don’t shoot training is a far greater problem than one who fails a test on the specifics of burglary statutes. Officers can always look up statutes. They cannot Google the common sense necessary to keep them from wrongfully shooting people.
If you can’t tell the difference between failing due to being basically STUPID and technically failing due to Reserve call up, in a discussion about competence, you probably lack the most rudimentary abilities necessary to successfully function as a police officer.
Dear Lou C. Tiel:
Thanks for your comment. As this is only an article intended to update readers on a continuing case, I did not go into great detail regarding any particular issue. I’d recommend that you take the link to the Confederate Yankee Archive of the Scott case where you’ll find that I’ve treated the issue you raise, and every other issue, in substantial detail.
But as to your concern, I am not suggesting that people who must leave a police academy due to a previous military obligation should be excluded. There is, in fact, federal law that would preclude that. In the same way, an otherwise qualified candidate who suffers injury or illness should also be offered a second chance, and this is commonly done across the nation.
As “Old Soldier” noted, I tried to make clear that this is not a black and white situation and some failings would not necessarily lead to failure, while others–such as a candidate who showed dangerous tendencies in the use of force–should and would likely be examined far more seriously. This too is common across the nation.
Thanks again.
Lou, no where in the statements you quoted did the author say that every recruit who failed was not allowed to retry. Why are you ignoring that?
I have first hand knowlege of cops and a judge being bought in Vegas, but it really is no big deal, it goes on in other communities, in other forms, but it is in the end the same thing, corruption and the price of the coruption.
What happens in Vegas keeps me out of Vegas.
The solution to police corruption is simple: collective punishment. If the police refuse to punish the bad apples, the entire force gets slashed with budget cuts. After a couple punitive cuts, the good cops will turn on the bad ones, either by judicial punishment, or by leaving them to die in the line of duty.
If your so called “good cops” put up with the bad cops then there are no good cops on that department. There are several cities in the Country where if I saw a cop get shot I would assume he asked for it. New Orleans, and Las Vegas would be two cities at the top of the list.
So the State of Nevada is a lawless tyranny, where innocent citizens are murdered by vicious police thugs without accountability. Sickening, but not surprising.
The majority leader of the U.S. Senate is Harry Reid, Democrat of Nevada. Gangster One, Gangster Two. Harry makes his dough through real estate scams. The Senator buys marginal land cheap with no-interest loans from influence-peddlers, no cash of his own; uses his clout, through his son, to get a zoning variance; and then “sells” the re-zoned property to casino interests for giga-profits as a silent partner in the venture. Anyone wanna bet how much of the take Harry reports to the IRS? Hey, D-rats! This crook is your #2 Man in Washington. Feel better now?
Every police shooting I hear of really makes me wish we had gun cameras on all police weapons. Make that footage available and reviewed every time the gun is drawn and there’d be a whole lot more accountability on both sides, both proving a criminal was armed and in messed up situtations like this when it was total police error.
I’ve got a general idea for such a system but I’ve got no idea to go with it beyond that. I wonder if I should patent it. *Shrugs*
http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/30/pistol-camera-captures-gunslinging-action-seeks-role-in-next-fa/
So I found an old article that cops HAVE thought of doing this, but with old bulky camera systems like this I don’t see it being widespread and usable.
There is a travesty of justice unfolding. What I have read about this on Pajamas Media and Drudge is the original stories, maybe not yet depositions, were changed. There should be a grand jury investigation but the docket is filling up with school lab assistance that have only worked 9 months but qualify for weeks of vacation time to satisfy a religious belief that is contrary to the religious teachings anyway. Eric Holder is a very busy man and can’t be disturbed. Either that or he is.
Cops today are nothing more than organized Federal sanctioned thugs with badges and the authority to kill and tell lies about it. It’s real sad that when I grew up in the sixties and seventies, my parents told me I could trust the police and that they were the “good guys” and now in this day and age, I have to teach my children not to trust them as most are roid raged punks with a serious chip on their shoulders.
I would suggest people read the Las Vegas Sun’s coverage of the coroner’s inquest.
The guy was basically begging to get shot.
Justifiable shooting sounds like to me.
‘Christopher Villareale was shopping at Costco the day of the shooting and also is a concealed weapon permit holder.’
‘Villareale said he was one of the last people to leave the store and wasn’t far from Scott when he was shot.’
‘He testified that an officer yelled at Scott to get on the ground, “And Mr. Scott is just standing there not doing anything.”’
‘Scott then lifted his shirt with his left hand and someone yelled “no, no,” Villareale said.’
‘Scott then pulled his right arm forward with a gun in his hand, he said.’
Turn out the lights, the party’s over. You just made a fatal mistake, pal. Witness after witness said essentially the same thing. The cops were screaming at the guy to get down on the ground, and he reached inside his clothes where his gun was, instead of getting down on the ground like he was told, and then he pulled something out, apparently one of his pistols, still in the holster. And, then…KA-BOOM!
You want to die? Do what that guy did, and you’ll get what you want, likely even if you DON’T have anything in your hand.
Also, according to the medical examiner, he had potentially lethal levels of morphine and xanax in his body (indicating he was an habitual user who had built up tolerance), numerous doctors testified that they had prescribed various mind-altering drugs to the guy at various times, and numerous witnesses described him as acting in a dazed or drugged up manner right before he got himself shot.
One of Scott’s doctors:
“My conclusion is that he is suffering from an addiction, at the least to hydrocodone, if not to other narcotic substances,” Kim said.
All things considered, I’d say forget complaining about this fellow getting shot. You ain’t going nowhere with this one.
There’s a lot more info in the Sun’s articles…
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/sep/28/jury-shooting-justified/
Oh, and if someone tells you that guns aren’t allowed on their property. Don’t argue about it. Don’t ignore them. Just get on your pony and ride.
If you’re walking across my land, and I tell you that strangers aren’t allowed to carry guns on my property, you better believe that I ain’t kidding around. I live out in the boonies, and I ain’t going to wait 30 minutes for the sheriff to show up and move you off my land; and I’m likely going to move you out my way, if you know what I mean.
Folks, get this through your heads: Your RKBA ends at my property line…and, that ain’t negotiable. Only one guy has a right to keep and bear arms on my land, and that’s me…unless you’re an LEO with a warrant.
Dear Dave Surls:
Thanks for your comment, but for the benefit of readers, may I suggest that anyone interested in this case take the link to the Confederate Yankee Scott case archive where they will find that things are substantially more complex than you have represented here. There is, in fact, very good reason to believe that Scott did not, in fact, ever have a gun in his hand when confronted by the officers, and that he certainly did not point it at them. This testimony too was presented at the inquest, despite the prosecution’s obvious determination to present only testimony harmful to Scott. During the inquest, the prosecutor was surprised by witnesses who did not agree with his preferred story and indulged in the bizarre practice of savaging his own witness in open court.
As this is only an update, it was not possible to go into detail on every issue. However, suffice it to say that my interest in this case continues because the facts have not, for the most part, been established. What is known gives me substantial cause for concern. May I be so bold to suggest that if you take the time to read the archive, you might share that concern?
Thanks for your comments!
“Thanks for your comment”
You’re welcome.
As a concealed carry holder in NYS I know one thing: NYS law requires concealed to be concealed. Other than printing through clothing, no part of the gun can be visible or you’re in violation. Not that I necessarily agree with the law, and having been falsely arrested once, I can state that numerous PDs around the country are wildly out of control. Be afraid.
However, LVPD is certainly, in my estimation, no different than any other, unfortunately. When a gun is involved in civilian hands, even innocent hands, there’s a huge double standard. There are some things one learns when working with the cops as I have for more than 20 years in my business. The first is that cops cover cops, all the time, every time.
It’s not just a job, it’s a mob. Now, perfectly nice guys who would never do anything wrong, and you could play frisbee with or might even see a concert with will clam up on any investigation. Why? Because they’re afraid.
That’s true in all PDs. I have had friends become cops. And to reiterate, I’ve worked with them for 20 plus years. When a man becomes a cop, he stops hanging out, generally, with non-cops. His friends may stop talking to him. This stuff is for real. It’s not an excuse, it’s just an x-ray of their culture.
But to the issue at hand; if you have a CCW permit, get a small gun, keep it concealed at all times. I have an alloy revolver than won’t pull my pants down and I also have a NAA mini .22. Once anyone drops a dime on you, and call the cops that there’s a man with a gun, anything can happen.
So if you wanna flash your rod or carry openly, be my guest, but understand, you’ve inviting jack asses with cell phones to make up fake stuff about you and 21 year old kids who a year ago were surfing and smoking ganja to use their best judgment when they approach you. Cover the damn thing up. Never volunteer that you have it. If questioned, leave, ASAP.
I’ve been carrying concealed in NYS for 16 years, been pulled over by cops, in verbal conflicts with people and even dealt with street conflicts and never had it show or pulled it out. What happened to this guy was totally inexcusable, but none of us have a time machine.
The cops will not be punished, mark my words. Anyone who wants to find out about bad cops can Google Francis X Livoti NYPD or Officer Dowd NYPD. The last cop executed for murder in NYS was an Officer Holland, in 1899. The judges, pols, everyone is afraid of the cops. You should be too, even if you’re a retired cop, because you know what I’m saying is true.
Thanks for the excellent post. You are absolutely correct. Any idiot can call the cops and say anything they want about someone carrying a gun. And when the cops show up, their only concern is to make sure that they are the ones who leave the scene alive. So, you are, in effect, playing with fire anytime you interact with cops, especially if you have a gun. If you didn’t have a gun, they might beat the shit out of you if you challenge their “authority,” but you’d still be alive…
Wow, Scott walked by the police officers. Well, if they did not have a photo of him, that is very likely. No wonder you are a former police officer.
And don’t forget that Scott was high on prescription drugs at the time and his girlfriend said he had the gun. You don’t mention that.
And you don’t mention that most witnesses said he drew and pointed a gun at the officers.
Oh, and an ex-cop like yourself should know that if commands like “don’t move” and “put up your hands” are so bad and contradictory, then every police shooting is bad. I bet you never said one thing to a suspect and another officer with you said something else.
Choosing a drug addict as your Rosa Parks is not a good idea.
Absent any threatening move, simply failing to comply is not justification for deadly force.
In other words, if one cop says “Don’t move!” one cop says, “Put up your hands!” and the third cop says, “Get on the ground!” and the suspect just stands there in bewilderment, and a cop shoots him dead, that cop has committed, at the least, manslaughter. Simple non-compliance BY ITSELF does not justify deadly force. Ever.
On the other hand…
That DOES. In fact, if this is true, nothing else really matters. Not his behavior in Costco, not conflicting commands, not incompetent police, not missing videos, not anything else.
If it is true that he retrieved a weapon from his waistband (or pocket or wherever) and extended it towards the officers, this was a good shoot.
EVEN IF (as some witnesses said) it was still in its holster.
We cannot ask police officers to wait for lead to fly before they decide to shoot. A reported suspect with a gun who extends that gun towards officers can expect to be shot vigorously and with enthusiasm, if the officers are well trained, competent, and reasonable.
All comes down to this: Did Scott extend a weapon towards the officers?
If he did, this was a good shoot.
If not, it was not.
All the rest is side-dressing.
If this happened as the police claim, you would think that the video would have been made public rather than “lost” or “damaged”. For the most part I like cops and am willing to help out if asked, but not in LV or NOLA. A few other cities have also hired a lot of A**hats in clown shoes, NYC for the most part is honest as far as I can tell, but there are so many cops that there are bound to be a few morons.
The missing video in question is the in-store surveillance tape from Costco. Their employees made the call, and claimed that he was acting erratically. A video would show whether:
1. They overreacted to a non-event (his shirt rode up and an empty-headed, anti-gun employee went ballistic), OR
2. Scott was really acting erratically and became abusive. This would lead a reasonable person to feared that violence from Scott was imminent, or at least, very likely.
Since the tape ‘disappeared’, we’ll never know the truth of that.
Who benefits from that?
Costco. ONLY Costco.
If scenario 1 occurred, it began a series of events that led to Scott’s death. Costco employees might reasonably fear the tapes would establish some degree of liability in a civil wrongful death suit.
In scenario 2, they acted reasonably and probably would regard the tapes as good support for their position.
This leads some folks to conclude that Scenario 1 is what happened, and that Costco destroyed the evidence.
What has this got to do with the police?
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
Whatever happened inside the store, the question of whether or not this was a good shoot can only be determined by what the cops were told, and how Scott reacted when he was confronted.
Even if what happened inside was Scenario 1, and Costco employees overreacted and even LIED to police in describing his behavior, even if Scott was completely reasonable inside the store, none of that has anything to do with the officers actions OUTSIDE the store.
IF Scott made the stupid mistake of pulling out his gun to show the officers he was complying, this was a good shoot.
Conversely, if what happened inside the store was Scenario 2, if Scott was high as a kite and acting erratically, if everything the Costco people said was true, but all Scott did was STAND THERE when confronted, this this is manslaughter.
What happened inside the store is relevant to any liability that Costco may have.
It is NOT relevant to the reasonableness of the officers’ actions.
You assume that the police acted reasonably, and are willing to take their word that in fact is was justified, I am not. The video may in fact either verified that the police acted correctly or did not act in a reasonable manor. I have never been in a store with video that did not have a camera on the doors.
I am not anti-police, in fact the cop in San Francisco area that is now in jail for the mass transit shooting got a bad deal and in my opinion he maybe should have been fired, but jail time was excessive.
This shooting in LV is different in the fact that there is a lot of conflicting information. COSCO did not lose the tapes. This Department does have a history of less than good police work. I have not heard the tapes from the dispatcher, has anyone outside the locals? This is not a case of some gang banger robbing a gas station, and deserves an outside investigation. Any cop that takes the fifth on this one condemns them all.
Dear Federale:
For PJM readers, perhaps a bit of background will be useful. “Federale” has been commenting on this case since I’ve been writing about it, always citing only that evidence that supports his view that the police were blameless and that Scott was entirely responsible for his death. In addition, he has often been fairly insulting in his posts, as he is here. I have offered him the opportunity to provide readers with an explanation of his background and interest in this case, so they may better understand his motivations, but he has, to date, declined.
Again, may I suggest that interested readers take the Confederate Yankee Scott Archive link where they will find that there is substantial evidence to suggest that Scott was not, in fact, “a drug addict,” and that “most witnesses” did not say that “he drew and pointed a gun at the officers.” I did not mention this accusation as this is merely an update for readers. It is covered in detail in the archive, as you know. Oh yes, and police officers are able to successfully identify suspects every day without photographs. The problem in the Scott case was a lack of proper police communications procedure that left officers badly misinformed and directly contributed to Scott’s death. I address this issue in the archive as well.
And no, in my police career, I did not find myself in a situation where contradictory commands were yelled at a suspect, though I have seen it happen. This is so because professionals know how dangerous that practice is and avoid it. The Metro Police did not. My articles in the archive also address this issue, as you know.
I’m satisfied to invite PJM readers to make up their minds about the case based on all of the facts and reasonable analysis.
Bingo.
Three officers shouting contradictory commands means you are watching The Amateur Hour.
Conflicting witness testimony aside, everything about this case screams INCOMPETENCE, at best.
Mr. McDaniel: As a recently retired career firefighter (unnamed rank) from an FD in the Las Vegas valley I would like to make a few statements about my experience on the ground, in close proximity to both Metro officers and other PD. Prior to that, however, a word for some of your negative sounding “contributors”: If you weren’t in the store and an eye witness to the incident you have no idea what kind of quality the “factual” information you reference (or omit) is based on. In short, you’re blowing smoke, and we know you’re blowing smoke. Quit trying to convince us otherwise. Having said that, I was not there either, so everything I say here is pretty much back seat quarterback. I think you, Mr. McDaniel, should have enough experience and background in this case to develop your story, so I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. Allow me to continue.
First, cops, just like firemen can easily develop a “moth to the flame” approach when responding to calls. Even experienced responders can fall into a rookie move like MTTF. I’ve seen it by cops and firemen. The moth to the flame syndrome (or MTTF) as I call it is where a call comes in for something like this, and in their adrenaline fueled response, responders can get hyperfocused on taking out the hazard, removing or fixing the “problem”. This can cause all kinds of undue and unnecessary bad outcomes; for the patients (EMS), for the amount of water and fire damage in a structure fire incident and that may very well have contributed to this response. All the while, in the bigger picture, way more collateral damage gets done than is necessary. Kind of like using a Tomahawk missile to shoot a deer –there’s probably a better way to achieve the desired outcome. A respected fire officer I know used to say “common sense isn’t common anymore.” There are many other scenarios, considerations and outcomes that I don’t have space to mention here, but many of these incidents are similar.
You’d think that the lone voice of reason might win out in incidents like this, like one cop on scene might be able to de-escalate the situation. But then maybe not, based on information relayed by the store security person or manager. It seems they thought Erik Scott was a real threat (see below). I am curious about what exactly the Costco security officer saw, reported, and what he communicated to his superiors and Metro disatchers and officers at the store.
Something else: I have seen cops do very rough things to people who resist them. If you are being told by an officer to comply, the outcome will be better for you to comply than do anything else. Many members of the public do not seem to get this, and figure that they can argue, disagree, stand there in protest/disgust or whatever you want to call it. Once the cops are “onto” you, give up and comply, otherwise they will eat your lunch, or subdue you with deadly force. Firemen and cops are similar in this: lie to me and you’re toast. No, I am not implying anything about what Erik Scott did or did not do, as I said, I did not witness the incident. The fact that Costco or Metro ordered the store evacuated, they obviously felt there was a credible threat. Why was that? Whose testimony will convince a jury that there was in fact a credible threat? A big red flag for me is that there is video footage that is missing? Right there is a huge hole in Metro’s official story. Remember when Nevada Governor (at the time) Jim Gibbons was videotaped at night in a parking garage with some waittress? Everyone knew he was up to something wrong, but what exactly? Do you know who had the “missing” video, then later released a version of it? Take a guess.
Another thing: I’m not sure what role the prescription medication played. You might not believe how many people take hydrocodone. We ran alot of people who take that stuff and many other “painkillers”. Why? Because the doctors are prescribing it, and they make alot of money doing just that. I can count hundreds of people we ran who took that stuff, some of whom we would later find out led very honest and decent lives, up to and during the time they got “hooked” on something, an unintended consequence. To be callous to people’s life situations is not a mature outlook and would wisely be avoided. It is however, something that responders also routinely do, having been hardened by the job of dealing with some of the worst dregs of society. I wouldn’t get caught up labeling someone as an “addict” and then judge everything else about them tainted. It’s not that easy.
I think another aspect of this case that well deserves mention (again) is that a CCW permit holder (who has already voluntarily undergone criminal background investigation) was considered a real danger to the public. As a holder of a concealed carry permit I feel the safety of my family is much more intact when I have a weapon. What I know about law enforcement officers is that they can be your best friend or they can be your worst enemy. Better to comply before they demand it, if at all possible. You never know what kind of officer will be responding to a “threat” or “problem” or at least is perceived by store “security” as something of that nature.
As a final thought, Erik Scott’s family deserves every rock to be turned over in this case. It’s my prayer that his family will have some sort of answer so they can grieve and eventually find a way to move forward. My thoughts and prayers go out to them. Thanks.
You’re whole MTTF diatribe and ugly statement “there’s probably a better way to achieve the desired outcome.” is repulsive. It’s okay to give an order, then two seconds later to discharge your weapon with a crowd of civilians standing so close they could easily get shot? The desired outcome was the death of someone who had the audacity to legally carry a gun? Any fire fighter or cop who has a MTTF moment and the result is a dead body that could have been easily avoidable should result in immediate termination of the person committing the MTTF moment and be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. These people are supposed to protect us from evil, not perpetrate it. When they do, the hammer should drop harder than it would for a civilian. People should go to jail, pensions should be lost, etc. After all, they took a man’s life; an innocent man with no evidence indicating he was acting irrationally or violently; and ruined the lives of his loved ones.
“If you weren’t in the store and an eye witness to the incident you have no idea what kind of quality the “factual” information you reference (or omit) is based on.”
Bullshit. It’s called evidence and testimony. If you truly believe what you said, you wouldn’t believe in a jury by trial and think the cops are now acting appropriately by not letting third parties hear the 911 call and see the video of the incident. After all, the third parties, BY DEFINITION, were NOT in the store, nor would potential jury members.
The fact that you are a fire fighter indicates your bias towards trusting police and other “public servants”; however, video after video shows that these people aren’t much more, if at all, trustworthy than the average civilian.
There were no military personnel involved in this situation.
Police officers are civilians.
Merriam-Webster definition of civilian:
2a: one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force.
So, in fact, police are NOT civilians. Thanks for playing.
Merriam-Webster stopped being a reliable source decades ago. Their staff is firmly “deconstructionist”. You might want to look that up. You’ll find it’s the brain-child of a guy named Karl.
Police and firefighters are part of the CIVIL government, which (at least in America, so far) is ABOVE the military (which is the thing that is NOT CIVILian).
The militarizing of our police forces is a very dangerous thing for liberty.
Aided and abbetted by our always useful idiots, of course.
Dear Mark v:
Thanks for your comments here. Just a point of clarification: Police agencies are organized on paramilitary lines. As such, officers often use common military terminology while adopting their own specialized jargon. Many officers in many agencies across the nation commonly refer to anyone who is not a police officer as a “civilian”– when they’re being polite. There are other terms in common usage when they’re not.
I’m well aware of all of that, Mr. McDaniel.
It’s a huge problem, NOT something to champion.
You would do well to look into the history of the phenomenon.
Definition of civilian Merriam-Webster 2a:
one not on active duty int he armed services or not on a police or firefighting force
Police are NOT civilians.
BaltimoreKen, nice language. Sounds like you’ve been beaten down on the streets too long. Better get out and get a life after retirement. There is life after being a first responder… As a matter of fact, I trusted no one while on the job, and had a small handful of true friends. The only time cops were our “friends” is when they would clear a scene before we went in. Other than that, forget it. Now, I trust no one. Have a better day.
GH,
Why focus on my language? That’s a technique used by tools to sidestep the issue. How can you believe in our legal system when you clearly believe that only those who personally witnessed Scott getting killed are qualified to say something substantive about the shooting?
What does retirement have to do with anything? And why do I have to wait two or three decades for retirement to get a life? Why can’t I have one now? I think you’ve mistaken me for someone I am not.
And you sound like a child saying you don’t trust anyone. That philosophy is for teenagers and chumps. I’m sure what you meant is that you had to be care who you trusted and with what you entrusted to them.
But how is that different from any other situation and your attitude towards all others? You trust a person to do or not do certain things in certain situations. Trust is not binary; it’s not all or nothing. It always depends on the situation and the person.
Regards,
Ken
Any firm, beit the size of Costco or not, should clearly post policy on the front door. Then, as I gather, Costco security ‘employs’ police to enforce policy? One would have to think that if the security officer had asked Scott to put the firearms in his car and then return to shop that should have taken care of it. Scott knows from the training that many places do not allow CCW. The store security officer who contacted the police is seriously at fault here. I wonder if that is Costco policy also: panic and call the police.
My prayers are with the family. What a shock to them and then the cover-up. This is just wrong on so many levels. Egypt it is.
Really, I never got that message.
But in any event you still fail to deal with Scott’s drug abuse on that day in question.
As for insults, it is you who have accused multiple LVMPD and Fire Department officers of corruption based on no evidence.
In fact, Scott had a gun in his hand when he was shot. His fiance admits that.
You, however, have claimed that the police officers and firefighters either planted the gun or “found” a gun on his person that was stolen from his home by other city officials, or something, as your conspiracy theories are quite strange and involve dozens of Las Vegas county employees and officials.
And, you too, dismiss evidence you don’t like, as the witnesses who state emphatically that Scott drew his weapon.
It is good to hear that you have never participated in an arrest where contradtictory commands were given. That probably makes that unique. Or did you just say that only you did not give contradictory commands. What about other officers? That would be quite amazing.
Too bad that the Las Vegas Review-Journal, the mainstream newspaper, is part of the corruption. They are passing up a Pulitzer Prize by joining in the cover up. Thank God for Bloggers (the coming news source).
Totally agree with Mark v that this situation reeks of incompetence. This man is dead and the conflicting reports would make my hair stand on end if I were there as a witness and then read the newspaper report. There is just too much blue sky. I sincerely hope that the family can eventually lay this to rest. What a tragedy.
Forgotten Man wrote:
I’m assuming no such thing. Do you understand the significance of the word, “IF”? It’s a simple word. Try to grapple with it.
I’m not taking the side of the police, nor am I taking the side of Scott’s defenders.
I’m simply pointing out that this:
…is complete NONSENSE.
Please re-read my post. Or, perhaps, read it all the way through for the first time. You have completely missed the point.
What really happened inside the store is completely irrelevant to the question of whether or not the police acted reasonably.
That question can only be answered by looking at:
1. The information that the police had when they confronted Scott.
2. The actions of Scott and the actions of the police at the point of confrontation (which was outside the store).
1. The information that the police had when they confronted Scott.
Your saying that based on the information they had at the time that they had to confront him in the middle of a crowd? There is conflicting information on Scott’s actions at the time.I am not sure they had accurate information from the store or the dispatcher do we have tapes of the dispatcher’s radio calls?
2. The actions of Scott and the actions of the police at the point of confrontation (which was outside the store).
Again there are conflicting statements about this mans actions. I don’t know. But it is fairly clear he was not a convicted criminal, had not committed a crime in this store. If irrational behavior by an armed man is reason to shoot him, then I have seen drunk cops that should have been shot, and yes one was waiving a pistol.
Without an INDEPENDENT investigation by some organization out side of the city and county I think their findings are suspect.
I fully agree that an independent investigation is called for.
The point I am making is that what happened inside the store does not affect the QUESTION of whether or not the police acted reasonably.
If they got bad information, that is STILL the only information they had. They cannot be held responsible for idiots in Costco exaggerating, or even LYING about what happened inside the store. They must investicgee a “man with a gun” call as if there really is a man with a gun who MAY pose a threat.
THAT is what they were told. The information was that there was a man with a gun that was acting irrationally and belligerently.
Based on that, they DID have to stop that person. They had NO CHOICE about stopping him.
HOW they stopped him is another question.
Whether or not they had reason to shoot him is yet ANOTHER question.
Let me try this one more time: It ALL depends on whether or not Scott pulled a gun when confronted by the cops. Nothing else matters. There is conflicting information about that. That’s why another investigation is warranted.
BUT, let’s suppose an independent investigation confirms (we find previously unknown video tapes from seven different angles!) that it went down THIS way:
Scott is in the store minding his own business. He bends down to look at something on a lower shelf. His sidearm prints. It doesn’t even SHOW, it just prints. An employee of Costco, who is a complete idiot, sees it, and goes ballistic. She tells him (frantically) that he’s not allowed in the store with a gun, and he must leave, and besides that he’s a baby-killing monster for even thinking about having a gun, and generally berates him for not being a left wing, flower waving dope smoking idiot like her. Scott looks annoyed, says, “Okay, fine, I’m leaving.”, rolls his eyes and heads for the door.
Said idiot then goes to a manager and frantically tells him there’s a man with a gun acting irrationally and he threatened to shoot her and everybody in the place.
Naturally, the manager calls 911 and reports this lie.
What should the police do with this information? Only one thing:
Pull out the stops and roll every available cop, on high alert.
Having arrived at the store, the police try to get something coherent out of the bliss-ninny who started the problem. Meanwhile, several officers spot Scott (he’s pointed out to them), and approach him.
They order him to stop.
With me so far? The police are acting IN GOOD FAITH on what turns out to be bad information. THey are, so far, acting CORRECTLY.
Now, upon being ordered to stop and drop his weapon, Scott makes a mistake.
He pulls his weapon from his holster and extends it towards an officer, thinking to disarm the situaion by surrendering his weapon. Good intentions, no doubt.
The officers respond to a drawn weapon by shooting Scott.
IF (see that little word there?) that is how it went down, IF Scott really did draw his weapon, this was a GOOD SHOOT.
And that has NOTHING to do with the veracity of the information the officers had.
Regardless of what leads up to it, if police officers approach a person, order him to stop, and that person responds by drawing a weapon, officers are justified in shooting.
Costco’s civil liability (if any) may be affected by what’s on the missing videos.
The events inside the store have NOTHING to do with the question of whether or not this was a justified shooting.
The ONLY thing that determines THAT is whether or not Scott drew his gun.
Let me add that the reverse is true. IF Scott was high as a kite, IF he did show his gun in the store, IF he did threaten to shoot people, BUT!
When confronted by police, if all he did was STAND THERE, then this shooting is NOT justified.
Can you see what I’m saying? Scott’s conduct in the store is NOT RELEVANT to the question of the shooting. The ONLY thing that matters is whether or not he drew his weapon.
If he DID, this shooting was justified.
If he did NOT, it was NOT justified.
Everything else is a side-show. There might be some civil liabilities there, or maybe not. There might have been mistakes made from which officers can learn (or which call for disciplinary action), or maybe not.
But those things are still just a side-show.
I think we really do agree. If Scott pulled the gun the police can’t be faulted for the shooting. If he didn’t than jail time for the first cop to shoot should be on the table. An independent investigation is the only way to TRY and get an honest answer to this shooting. Any cop that did not shoot that takes the Fifth need to be jailed for contempt of court and lose his job.
The video INSIDE the store prior to the shooting are of no use, I agree. But may store have cameras facing the doors and MIGHT so at least part of what happened.
I do believe we ARE agreed.
Disappearing video tapes make me nervous, too.
Dear Mark v:
Regarding the actual shooting, may I suggest that you visit Update 5 on the Confederate Yankee Scott archive? I explain in some detail there–and thereafter–the shooting issues. What matters is only what the officers could have known, by means of the radio traffic they heard on the way to Costco, and through their personal observations of Scott in the several seconds before they shot him to death. Even if Scott was grossly impaired by drugs, this is surely insufficient time for anyone to be certain of that in the available time. The currently available evidence indicates clearly that he was not. Remember that the officers did see Scott walking past them, and despite having his description, found him to be no different than anyone else in the crowd. None of the known witness testimony indicates any evidence of obvious impairment at the time of the shooting.
As to a police shooting being legitimate merely because they see a gun in someone’s hand, I’m afraid not. If this was true, the police would have absolute license to shoot anyone holding a firearm within their sight. In order to be justified in shooting, they must be able to prove that the person they shot was presenting a real and imminent threat of seriously bodily injury or death to themselves or others. There is a significant difference in speed and manner between a man trying to hand a holstered handgun to a police officer, and a man making a drawing stroke from a concealed holster with which to shoot that officer. Police officers are trained to recognize that difference, and to be able to take the time–seconds or fractions of seconds–to make correct and accurate shoot/don’t shoot decisions. To expect or allow less of them would doom innumerable innocents to death for exercising their rights under the Second Amendment.
If my theory of the case is correct, a theory that I have often said is subject to change when more complete information comes to light, the only thing Scott had in his hand was his Blackberry, which was found near his body. Witness testimony about seeing Scott’s holstered handgun on the ground near his body is, at best, confused and inconclusive. A number of credible, currently known witnesses saw no gun, or nothing that resembled a gun, and at least two of those, a physician and an attorney, were careful to look for one. In the archive, I document the statements of those who believe they saw a gun or something like it, and those who did not, and I document the police version of events as well as proposing reasonable alternate explanations based on known evidence. Shooting at the first sign of movement, or shooting at the mere sight of something in someone’s hand is inexcusable and arguably, criminal.
Regarding disappearing tapes, if you feel uneasy about such things, the facts I lay out in the archives will give you chills. There is a great deal more, which is infinitely more disturbing, there.
Exactly my point. They can only be judged on the information they had. If that info was false, or just grossly inaccurate, they cannot be faulted for that. It’s what they had to go on. Some people have commented on this as though the missing tapes prove the shooting was unjustified. They do NOT.
There MAY be culpability for bad info on the part of Costco employees, but that does not affect the officers’ culpability, or lack thereof.
Not really relevant to the officers culpability. They didn’t shoot him for being high. It’s only relevant in explaining (or not) his acting irrationally (or not). Still doesn’t affect the validity of the shoot.
True, but that’s not what I said. I said, IF he POINTED A GUN AT THEM
AND, this was consequent to being informed of a man with a gun who was acting irrationally, so it’s not just some chance encounter where someone produces a gun. There are two elements here – credible (as far as the officers knew) information about an armed man acting irrationally, and the (disputed) act of drawing out a weapon and pointing it at an officer.
I don’t know about you, but I’m not going to ask any police officer to wait until an assailant is actually firing before returning fire. Pulling out a gun and pointing it in the general direction of ME is good enough reason for ME to employ deadly force with enthusiasm and rapidity. I’m not going to impose a more stringent standard on a man who wears a uniform.
Remember the Tueller drill. If a man with a knife 21 feet away is a deadly threat (and he IS), then a man with a gun pointing in my general direction is certainly a deadly threat.
So, back to the only question that matters:
Did Scott draw a weapon and point it in the direction of one of the officers? Or not?
Now, of course the other issues MATTER in the sense that we really DO want to know if there was any tampering with evidence or witnesses. Even if a cop acts rightly in shooting, it wouldn’t be the first time they tried to “tidy up” a crime scene to make sure they didn’t catch any heat. That cannot be tolerated. Such behavior should result in prison time, IMO. We cannot tolerate ANY dishonesty in our law enforcement personnel (whether in the PD or prosecutor’s office).
But as to whether or not this shooting was justified, the only question that matters is, “Did he point a gun or not?”.
I’m hammering this because far too many people, in this case and many others, can’t seem to separate one issue from another. If Costco wiped some tapes, that’s one issue. Whether the shooting was justified or not is a SEPARATE issue. If Scott was high as a kite, that’s one issue. Whether the shooting was justified or not is a SEPARATE issue.
If we don’t learn to keep separate things separate we can never get the truth.
We need to rethink our need for “police protection” innocent people are gunned down every day accidentally by police. Larry Pratt writes on the standing armies complaints of our founding fathers and how it relates to police today. Do we really need roving herds of armed thugs out there to get taxation by citation? Most crimes the “state” is the victim. No seat belt, talking on phone while driving, driving too fast or the really dangerous one smoking a plant!
Yeah, I’m sure the people who know how things really work in Las Vegas laugh there asses off every time CSI comes up on TV.
No, they don’t laugh. Prosecutors all over the country are crying about it, because this country has too many idiots who think that what they see on TV is true. So, they sit on a jury, and if the prosecution can’t do a CSI number on the defendant, they find not guilty.
It’s not a laughing matter at all.
Good thing the actual facts of this case never made it into this article. Erik Scott was a junkie whos toxicology was off the charts! He did not have the long successful military career that “daddy” did, and turned to popping as many pain-killers as he could while driving around Vegas. He brandished firearms at citizens while being involved in disputes and was described as being volitile. The article failed to mention the clear 911 tapes that described him as ripping open packages and throwing product in the Costco!!
Cameras. The real truth is that cameras go down. When i worked catching theives internally and externally for retailers in numerous stores, this was just a fact of life. If cameras were working- then their placement often allowed for the action to be just out of frame. Lets not mention the stupid banners and displays that always seemed to block important veiwing areas. Some of my worst fights invaribly would be in front of a fixed camera (non moving)- that was pointed the other way, or just not working.
At the same time an unarmed black man across town gets blown away and the media,the public and the person who wrote this incredibly “truth-deprived” article said nothing! They were too busy bemoaning caucasian Erik Scott because he went to West Point. The town was in turmoil over Scott but not even Jesse Jackson came to town for Trevon Cole, the petty marijuana dealer. Sorry Trevon. You were on the wrong side of the tracks, neither you nor your daddy went to West Point, and you might have had a little too much melanin in your skin. Not only was Scott higher than the Stratosphere on various drugs, but he needed TWO guns just to shop at Costco. BTW, I have the right to carry concealed. If a representative should ever spot my weapon- (which is not likely because I dont want it to be seen and I am never strung out on pills)-But if it should be spotted, and the proprietor or representative thereof told me “weapons are not allowed in their store” …, I WOULD LEAVE! Why is that hard to grasp? Scott would be alive today by 1.) leaving when the employees explained store policy and 2.) not quickly reaching for the weapon when confronted by police. Oh, did the article fail to mention that part? Numerous witnesses described Scott as he took a stance and quickly reached for the weapon. If you do that to me, I’m NOT waiting and till the damn thing is pointed at me.
Amazing how many sheep read this writer’s maunderings. It is certainly my last time.