You have contradicted yourself. You say products of labor have their prices set by supply and demand. But you the argue that the labor price is not set by supply and demand. The labor market is fundamentally no different than any other market, supply and demand determine prices. Make up you mind, how are prices set?

There are no contradictions. When you come across a contradiction, go back to your premises.

“I’ve actually read quite a bit by all of these writers, and greatly respect them. But the real world is sometimes a bit more complex than beautiful theories.”

These are hardly “beautiful theories”. They are based on historical fact, historical events. If you have read Hayek, you will know that “The Road to Serfdom” was written in 1944, and was the first to clearly iterate that there was no significant difference between the tyranny of Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia. Neither was right and neither was left. They were simply murderous dictatorships with central economic control as the foundation of each one (and, of course they were both “socialist”). If you have read all of them, you know that they did recognize that people could be given government assistance if and only if they were unable to help themselves, and there was no other source of assistance. That assistance should be in a form of helping them to help themselves, not a never ending dole for those who get enough out of the government that they refuse to work. At any rate Hayek, von Mises and others looked at all economic systems. They were well aware of the complexities of the world and were able to explain their position that individual freedom to sink or swim with minimum government interference brings more prosperity than any other system ever has, provided it is under the Rule of Law. As far as your “beautiful theory” that big government can lead to small government, there is no historical instance of that happening to my knowledge. Perhaps you can provide some examples where it was successful. As for me, I will be watching the unemployment statistics following the increase in the minimum wage, the higher taxes on business implemented by the Marxist in Chief and his Congressional cronies through many legislative acts, and we will see how big government will downsize to control it all. In the meantime if/when the Obama DeathCare legislation is passed, I will be waiting for that call to get my first and probably last 5 year “consultation (see section 1233 of the House Act)”, so I can be told that I should commit suicide and the sooner the better – for the “greater good” of course.

but part of what drove support for creation of a tax-funded publication education system in the 1830s and 1840s in states like New York and Pennsylvania was the presence of a large population of impoverished urban immigrants.

More specifically, poor Catholic immigrants – and protestant America didn’t want them taught in church schools.

The libertarian would ask “what actions do I need to take to better myself and have the resources to raise a family, and support the community of my choice?”

I’m sure getting high, dropping out of school, and knocking up the girlfriend are not conducive to moving beyond pumping gas for beer money.

Giving the gasoline pumper just enough more to live on is enough to enslave that individual to that life.

Libertarians are for open borders…but they want no action to handle the mess this causes Americans.

The only arguments against the libertarian philosophy come from those that think it is OK to use force to accomplish their desires.

The only arguments? You must not get out much.

“I hope that this isn’t a surprise to you, but if 90% of the country thinks that the government should do something, it is rather difficult for the other 10% to stop it (unless that 10% includes judges).”

So you don’t believe in the Constitution? It explicitly denies to “right” of the majority over the minority. You obviously believe in the concept of might makes right. I weep for our world because people like you exist.

No. I recognize that if 90% want something, only bloodshed will prevent it. And the Constitution’s guarantees of minority rights are a bit more limited than you seem to think. There are specific protections written into the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and some later amendments. But it is hardly a generalized guarantee of minority rights in all areas.

So you don’t believe in the Constitution? It explicitly denies to “right” of the majority over the minority. You obviously believe in the concept of might makes right. I weep for our world because people like you exist.

The only arguments against the libertarian philosophy come from those that think it is OK to use force to accomplish their desires.

They may have incentive, but nothing else. Some people are born with fundamental deficiencies that prevent them from advancing (mental retardation, certain learning disabilities, and for a few, a predisposition to mental illness).

Some people are born with a full deck of cards, but grow up in abusive or neglectful homes, which impairs their ability to use that incentive. I knew a woman many years ago who, starting at age 8, was repeatedly violently raped by her father. As you might expect, this impaired her ability to move up in the world.

Some people end up in abominably bad communities, where violence, degradation, and bad schools encourage destructive behaviors and limited horizons. There are people that come out of those communities made stronger by the experience (“That which does not kill me makes me stronger”), but those are remarkable success stories.

So if 90% of the country thought we should kill all cripples, it would be OK? Just because the majority thinks something, doesn’t make it right. But obviously you do think the mob rules.

I hope that this isn’t a surprise to you, but if 90% of the country thinks that the government should do something, it is rather difficult for the other 10% to stop it (unless that 10% includes judges). I mean, you could have an armed revolution, but I’m guessing that the results wouldn’t be very successful if you only have 10% of the population on your side.