Burns Night for Israel: Scotland’s Literary Shame
The long-established ideological obsessions about Jews underlying these activities puncture the misconception that a boycott of Israel, whether generalized or targeted, is simply a tactic to change Israeli policy. Boycotting is the tangible expression of a visceral opposition to Jewish empowerment that, as the anti-Semitism scholar Robert Wistrich observed back in 1990, observes in Zionism a “code word for the forces of reaction in general.”
West Dunbartonshire, in fact, was an early adopter of this outlook. The area is home to the city of Dundee which, back in 1980, flew a Palestinian flag from the parapet of its town hall after being twinned with the West Bank town of Nablus. The prime mover behind that particular gesture was a local Labor Party organizer named George Galloway, later to become a member of the British parliament, an ally and confidante of British Islamists, a drooler in the presence of Saddam Hussein, and, most recently, a craven apologist for the Ba’athist regime of Bashar al Assad in Syria.
Anti-Zionism belongs to the Galloways of this world, those for whom the original sin of Israel’s creation is the basic condition for understanding and responding to the push and pull of global events. Charles Maurras, a nineteenth century French rabble-rouser, rejoiced in anti-Semitism’s ability to “enable everything to be arranged, smoothed over and simplified.” Anti-Zionism functions in much the same way.
As I’ve discovered over the years, there is little point in debating with people who regard the world in this manner. I’ve discovered, too, that they thrive when their ideas gain mainstream acceptance, and they shrink when these same ideas are marginalized.
A shove to the margins is what will happen if Britain’s literary class, painfully silent thus far, elects to confront the rot in West Dunbartonshire’s libraries. Sure, some of its leading lights do regard Israel, in the words of a former French ambassador to London, as a “shitty little country” that invites harsh treatment, even if they’d concede that a literary boycott is a tad on the crude side. Yet this is not a uniform view.
The novelist Ian McEwan, for example, was recently awarded the Jerusalem Prize, inadvertantly becoming a poster child for Israel’s political tolerance when he slammed its policies in his acceptance speech. Other writers, notably Martin Amis, Zadie Smith, and Salman Rushdie, hardly seem amenable to anti-Zionist witch-hunts. And what about Irvine Welsh, whose drug-soaked fables from bleak Scottish streets have been translated “into 20 different languages, including Hebrew”? He, surely, is exquisitely positioned to demand an about-turn in West Dunbartonshire.
Let us, therefore, keep an ear out for the outrage of the British literati. And let’s remember that, as long as they remain mute, there’s a danger that Burns Night will adopt an altogether more sinister meaning.
I, for one, am sick & tired of all of the Jew hating people in the world. The Jews get blamed for everything. Being an expat living in Europe, I can tell ya how much you average European hated Jews. Answer, a lot! When will this stuff ever end? I am not Jewish, but I tell ya, just to get back at all of the Jew haters in the world, I would agree with absolutely ANYTHING Israel chooses to do! Use nukes, germ warfare, whatever! Besides, they have probably been blamed for it already! And, I say bollocks to the Scots who removed these books. Great big bloody bollocks to ya!
I’m a Serbian-American Orthodox Christian who also has some Jewish relatives, and I agree with you one hundred percent. The same people – in other words, leftists – who are currently bashing the Jews have also been bashing the entire Serbian people.
Bulgaricus, you and I are up against a leftist-transnational-progressive/pro-jihadi axis of evil, and the only way we can fight back is to educate as many people as we can. All I can suggest is that you pray to the Lord for strength and wisdom, and that you keep serving the cause of truth as best as you can.
This story is factually inaccurate in geography and Mr Galloway’s history. The council involved has a history of Palestine sympathies and is not reflective of Scottish society in general. This article is the equivalent of saying that George Lincoln Rockwell’s views represent America in general and seems to forget that Scotland was a major participant in the fight against fascist and nazi ideologies. This article should be used to provoke discussion and not taken as gospel.
“This article is the equivalent of saying that George Lincoln Rockwell’s views represent America in general”
Rockwell was never elected to Congress, nor given regular airtime on major networks. Nor am I aware of any American municipality which wholeheartedly supported Nazis, paleo- or neo-.
“The council involved has a history of Palestine sympathies….”
And how is this accomplished? They don’t get elected unless they sympathize with Palestinians? Does each council member mentor the future generation of council members? How are these sympathies passed on through history? Is it in their DNA? Maybe they all attend the same library.
“…..seems to forget that Scotland was a major participant in the fight against fascist and nazi ideologies….”
Yes, and so were many Americans…….then.
The article I read would seem to be materially different you read. Is English a second language in Scotland? After reading your post, I reread the article (something you might do) and was confirmed in my understanding. The author’s comparison to the Nazis was restricted to West Dunbartonshire’s bureaucrats. The only reference to Scots in general dealt with words, usage and definitions. He did however, call to task the general hypocrisy of the UK, Scotland is a part thereof right? You should be alarmed and ashamed of what is taking place in West Dunbartonshire and therefor in Scotland.
I agree. This is not useful or smart. My family is Scots Jewish and I’m really irritated by this.
Imagine the obverse. It’s not hard because Israel also has its share of bigots. My aunt was spat on at the Wailing Wall because she wasn’t dressed the way some Ortho thought she should. The same “observant” Jews have also shown hatred to Christians and gay Jews, commanding them to leave Israel.
Should I then invoke Maimonides or Moshe Shamir, implying that’s it’s all Israelis who share the shame of this prejudice? You should really leave Robbie Burns out of this, Ben. All you do is offend Scots, or perhaps that’s your aim.
Your anecdote about Aunt Tilly getting spat on at the Wailing Wall seems suspect – no link to a news story, no photo, not even Aunt Tilly’s own testimony. But okay, I’ll buy it.
So what? She should have spat back. (Any of my aunts sure would have!) If it were Al Qaeda who caught her at the Wailing Wall, Aunt Tilly’d have had her head sawn off.
This is an elected council in your once great country that bans books because Jews wrote them. And what makes you mad? Some guy blogged about it!
PRAY, BRITANNIA!
YOU’LL PRAY FIVE TIMES A DAY!
BRITONS, ALWAYS EVER AFTER, SHALL BE SLAVES!
Plus you spell “Patrick” wrong, pal.
Thanks for the spelling lesson but seriously, do you really think a fraction of the incidences of intolerance by extreme Orthodox against everybody else is reported? It’s not news to most Israelis who understand they are the exception, though anybody who followed events in Israel would know this.
That’s my point regarding Ben Cohen’s article, in fact. He is smearing all Scots as if they tainted by some anti-Semites. Bernie Madoff is a Jew, but it doesn’t mean all Jews are responsible for him. Dominique Strauss-Kahn is Jewish but I see nobody implying that all Jews share some sort of group responsibility for his crimes.
It’s stupid. Berkeley, California, is full of anti-Semites. That doesn’t make all Americans anti-Semitic. It is the same identity politics used so often against Jews being applied to Scots, and Scots Jews don’t appreciate it. Cohen should apologize.
Good grief. No, for the last time, I won’t join you in your bigotry against Orthodox Jews. My experience is that intolerant behavior by religious folk is exaggerated and even invented by the Main Stream Media, unless the religious folk are favored-mascot racial groups of the Left, like the animals who – thinking her a Jew – raped Lara Logan.
You keep going on about Cohen blaming all Scots for this – where’s that in the story? You should read beyond the headline, Pat. This post certainly leaves thoughtful readers wondering where the outrage is, and that’s why I’m astounded by your comments. If a local government in the US had voted for any such thing, even in Berkeley, CA, protestors would mobilize and march – and not just Jews.
But you, a Jew yourself, pooh-pooh book banning as a little thing by some isolated cranks who got elected by accident or something, and you write a prissy comment condemning the publicity it’s received. Pathetic.
Worse is your finger-pointing cowardice. Oh, lots of Jews are bad, but not ME! I’m a good little Scot, and I always vote Labour. Please don’t break my windows come Kristallnacht!
Retlaw, your comment has no “respond” link so I respond to my own comment. You accuse me of “finger-pointing cowardice.” I’m not going to tell you about my life or how much of it has been spent fighting anti-Semitism, but I’ve got no guilt there since I’ve given up a lot to fight the real fight against identity politics.
Since you began this thread by implying that I was a liar, regarding the true story of my aunt’s unfortunate persecution at the Wailing Wall, I’m simply discounting you as the troll you are.
My “prejudice” against the Orthodox? Another pathetic attempt to mischaracterize what I actually wrote. Why don’t you ask some other secular, reform or even Conservative Jews here just how tolerant the ultra-Orthodox are. Start with Roger Simon, then get back to me on this. Alrighty, pal?
Yes, the final paragraph of the above post is over-the-top. Please forgive me for calling you a finger-pointing coward. I’m sorry.
I didn’t start by calling you a liar, Patric. It was a pointed jab at your weighing of your own anecdotal evidence of a minor disrespect (“persecution”, my fanny) at the Wailing Wall as equal to this documented and official infamy in Dunbarton.
As for trollishness, you’re the guy over here saying the story’s overblown and that Cohen should apologize for offenses to the Scottish people (you still don’t show where he savages them – he uses Burns only for the name’s onomatopoeia, you know – he does NOT go on to traduce “Oh, my luve is like a red, red rose”). I don’t go to lefty blogs and try to rain on their parades.
And as for the Orthodox Jews, your repeated sneers are tiresome. The entire sect, utterly condemned. Look up the word “prejudice” and see if it doesn’t apply here. See a man with hat, curls, and beard, and you despise him!
Patric, I think you lost this argument, especially since we are talking about book censorship here, to which you did not respond. Kinda reminds one of book burning. Hmmm, where have I heard that before? Didn’t that happen under the Nazis? Scary stuff. And I’m not even Jewish.
I’ve never had much interaction with anyone from Scotland, never been to Scotland, don’t know much about their history and pretty much all I know about the country is what was portrayed in the movie “Braveheart”. About the closest I ever came to knowing someone from Scotland was during a port call to Hong Kong in 72 or 73 when we ran into some British army dudes who said they were “The Black Watch”. Great guys it seems, loved to drink beer and fight, mostly with the Marines who loved to fight just as much. Don’t see how the current Scottish council could be any relation to those fine folk or even the Scots portrayed in the movie. Strange world. I don’t get how anyone could stand with the palestinians who are screaming about killing the Jews. I’ll stand with Israel over terrorists.
the point being that in a liberal society individual groups can hold individual view points without being representative of society in general. With the council involved they are attempting to endorse a global boycott in a very narrow and ill conceived manner. Narrow minded councillors and bureaucrats who attempt to make headlines by extreme actions should be condemned but should not be held up as representative of society as a whole. Scotland has 32 local councils and while one appears to be run by (for want of a better term and in good scottish dialect) bampots it is unfair to tar us all with the same brush.
Liberty is lost when none protest! I don’t remember which Scot I’m quoting. Your lack of outrage and inaction tars you, not any brush I, nor anyone else, could wield.
It’s not a Scottish problem but a LEFTIST problem. Scotland, like the rest of the UK and Ireland, has more than its fair share of Lefty wingnuts. The fact is that there are JEWS in Europe and the U.S. (especially in Mr. Cohen’s own NYC) who would agree with the boycott. Why? Because they are, above all else, Leftists who insist on siding with violent radicals. Many of them are no doubt diehard fans of HuffPo. Instead of whining about “Scotland’s shame” it would be more accurate and helpful if Mr. Cohen would focus his attention on where it really belongs: Left-wingers around the world.
I agree with Moira, but would qualify her appraisal with this: It was the New Left that was proudly anti-imperialist and blatantly antisemitic. The old reds objected to any particularist attachments (including nationalism) that precluded the loyalty to “proletarian internationalism.” I wrote a bit about this last issue here: http://clarespark.com/2011/05/26/who-is-a-racist-now/. I might add the New Left in my list of perpetrators.
You seem to be presenting an argument that in fact this IS a product/origin related issue and not censorship.
If this is NOT so, then making statements like “there is little point in debating with people who regard the world in this manner” would seem to put you on the side of any such boycott since such statements emerge from the same intellectual space as a boycott.
Hard to win an argument you’ve doubled down in favor of while arguing against it.
Since books published only in Israel are banned what do you call that? Unfortunate? It seems to have a striking resemblance to censorship!
No, that’s NOT censorship. Censorship would be by banning a title, not banning WHERE a title originated. A given title is banned because it is published in Israel but if it is published outside of Israel it is unaffected.
Whether one agrees with the boycott or not that is what it is and not censorship.
If the titled book is not available by this “boycott” it is censored by other means. Call it what you will, it’s just as gone, might as well have been burnt.
Or put on Amazon so I don’t have to have the English language shrunk to fit an agenda.
James, you’ve got to consider what’s being banned.
Insisting that Israeli oranges not be sold in supermarkets and that Mogen-David not be sold in liquor stores is one thing – economic boycott. (Oh, and economic boycott is an act of war, Jimbo. That’s why local governments need to stop pulling this nonsense.)
But this is intellectual property – books. And not best-selling paperbacks at the newsstands, but dusty tomes from the public libraries being cleared out. It’s not economic, James, it’s a boycott on the ideas from a certain country.
Banning ideas is what the Totalitarian Left does. Are you travelling with these fellows?
I travel with a racist circus. Part of my act is burning books so I don’t see the problem. Especially that last in the Philo Vance series which I ripped up first and then burned.
Sorry, I’m still a little behind in my reading.
Don’t apologize! Your humility excuses you completely.
And to drop Philo Vance’s name so casually – why, it’s a mighty fine privilege to be consorting with such a well-read toff! All of us here are most grateful for your condescension, I’m sure.
We’ll be real sad when you hop back in your clown car and ride off.
“This is about solidarity with the Palestinians, not hatred of the Jews and their works; it’s progressive, y’see.”
So many ways to hide anti-semitism these days. “We don’t want to destroy Israel, we just want the Palestinians to have their own state.” Or “Israel has a right to defend itself, of course, but it doesn’t have a right to bomb ‘innocent’ people firing rockets at them.” And my favorite, “Well of course the Palestinians are killing Jews and firing rockets into Israel. What do you expect. After all, the Jews had it coming to them.”
Justifying the murder of Israelis is simply a way of covering up one’s anti-semitism. The one thing I CAN say about Nazis is that at least you can’t call them hypocrites. They told you exactly what they thought about the jews and never deviated from that line of thinking. But the anti-semites of today are too cowardly to come right out and say what they mean. They try to justify their anti-semitism by “supporting” the Palestinians. What cowards. At least have the stones to say what you really think, which is that the world would be a better place without the Jews. People like that would have a lot in common with the Nazis, although you’d never hear them admit it publicly. Privately, well, that’s another matter. Cowards.
Saying that people hide their bigotry or are stupidly unconscious of it is a convenient and circular “argument” that the black elite in America also uses against white folks.
Look at the “controversy” over a Dove products ad at the HuffPo. 3 women in towels are arranged in front of 2 panels that are clearly blow ups of patches of dry versus moisturized skin. Despite this, it is shown as a case of a “skin lightener” and the unfortunate placement of the women black/Indian/white left to right seen as a Darwinian evolution of a neanderthal into Guinevere.
Conclusion: racism made by racists. Right. My own conclusion: lacking evidence one is forced to make up nonsense out of whole cloth or act like the past by way of lynchings, Jim Crow, slavery is still alive. No surprise the imagery of the black elite is laced with the past since they have no dog that will hunt in the present.
I prefer evidence of a cogent and consistent and visible rhetoric in by way of essays, lectures, interviews, college courses, etc. Islam does this, Nazis do it – talk to them.
Secret and unconscious anti-Semites can exist in whatever number one wishes and this tends to reveal more about the accuser than the accused being that the accused have no names or faces and if they’re Jews the cheap psychology of individual self-loathing is attached as if they are incapable of genuine and clear-minded disagreement. Does this mean the opposite is self-absorption or narcissism? Is that better?
Do electrons care about Jews, Christians, black or white? I know I don’t.
At the least these considerations require mind reading skills and a belief that disagreement is never really disagreement but bigotry in a type of intellectual nanny fascism that is somewhat remarkable to see people indulge in since it is devoid of reason, logic or evidence unless one love double standards.
In that case, knock yourself out.
This is the most opaque writing I’ve seen in a blog comment. The guy must be a sociology grad student, or something-studies. I think he’s disagreeing with Libertyship, but I’m not sure.
Let’s award him an honorary PhD if he promises to go away.
Moira: It’s the leftist wingnuts who govern Scotland — and Britain in general. How many Muslim sharia courts exist in Britain? Dozens. They usurp — with the government’s complicity — the judiciary with their own courts. These Muslim courts are not merely private arbitration entities; they adopt the moral authority of Islam, an ideology antithetical to what used to be Britain’s cultural values. So, why shouldn’t an anti-Israel and anti-Jewish library boycott spread to all U.K. libraries? There’s nothing to stop it. If the government there can arrest men for burning the Koran as an act of protest against the Islamization of Britain, it’s unlikely it would do anything other than turn a blind eye to such a movement. The Left has allied itself with Islam (and things Palestinian), because Islam is also anti-West to the core.
Europe tried to gas all of us and almost succeeded.
Now, let me ask the Europeans: how’s all that Islamic street violence working out for you? Is that our fault, too?
I sincerely hope that next time Europe screams for help that we sit back and watch.
As one born in England but now an Israeli resident I can tell you that Scotland is probably the most anti-Zionist (for which read anti-Semitic) country in the world. The Scottish Palestine Solidarity Campaign is fanatical in its visceral hatred of the Jewish state and never tires in its efforts to demonise, delegitimise and destroy it. (I was once accosted on Princes Street, Edinburgh by these racist thugs). It runs right through Scottish society from the Scottish Parliament, which regularly condemns Israel, to the Scottish Trades Union Congress, which recently decided to boycott Israel. Remember these are the same people who released the Lockerbie bomber. Perhaps Israel’s supporters in the US could show them that boycotts can be a two-way street!
What does Scotland export besides booze and people?
Well as a Scot I have to say your puerile little tirade is absolute bollocks from start to finish.
You probably got abused because you are obviously a twat.
Alright – the list is growing.
Booze, people, and insults.
Soldier, the people you mention the Scots exporting sure used to be wonderful. Scots engineers were in demand all over the world to build railroads in the 19th Century. They built lines in Japan, China, India, Burma, and probably all over Africa.
Their Presbyterian missionaries were some of the world’s most learned linguists, and they brought millions to the Gospel and the Ten Commandments.
Many Scots missionaries teamed with Scots physicians to build hospitals all around the globe, bringing medical care that extended the lives of millions and millions.
Yes, they were a glorious, charitable, industrious, thrifty people – until they went Secular. Now we’re left with the Dumbarton Council and foul-mouthed Ed H. Please don’t export Ed, Scotland – you’ll need him to cheer at your tawdry soccer games.
“not every supporter of a boycott of Israel is a Nazi…”
No, some are just enabling fools and cowards. Wow, gutsy call to bash Israel and Jews where Britain used to be.
Want to be brave? Try criticizing Palestinians and Islam there.
You have to be very brave to critisize Israel as well. Somebody might call you an anti-Semite. OMG!!!
So? In Britian, having a little wiff of anti-semitism associated with your name is good. It helps pander to the exploding Muslim population. It’s like an American liberal calling for “comprehensive immigration reform” (amnesty) again.
To Daniel,
Very brave to criticize Israel????? It’s politically correct to criticize Israel. And if you criticize Israel, you won’t have to worry that the Islamics will target you. How brave!
OK you”ve convince me–I am switching to Seagrams!
With a few individual exceptions (eg Geert Wilders), the entirety of the leftist Eurotrash socialist MC PC bootlickers of islamic radicalism so hate the Jews that they will gladly become dhimmis in their own countries. Perhaps that be seen as poetic justice, but when the bombs start going off more frequently, expect them to blame Israel and da jooos, and further embrace the Pali cause.
are they also boycotting all the computer products, software and tech support that comes from israel, how about their electronic and biomedical equipment? or is just the products that do not affect their daily lives? if you are going to boycott a people then you must also decline the products from them you need to survive in your business or personal life otherwise you are nothing more than a bigot
Do the books by “Israeli authors” under boycott include the Bible?
Just asking.
Most leftists that I know are athiests.
Do you ever have an open discussion with them? If so how many second do they last?
I would imagine that the Orthodox Secularists that Dumbarton voters elect to their council have long since found an excuse to banish the Bible from their libraries. If not, perhaps they’ll take your suggestion and make this the pretext, Uzi. (Hey, isn’t an uzi just a dinky little burp gun?)
I gotta say, yours seems the most foolish comment on the thread so far.
I’ve been boycotting purchasing all scotch whiskies (both for home consumption and at bars and restaurants) since the convicted Lockerbie bomber (al-Megrahi) was released from prison on “compassionate” grounds (because he was suffering from “terminal” prostate cancer and had only 3 months to live). That was back in August, 2009! I’m sure the Scots were telling the truth–al-Megrahi only had 3 months to live–they simply never said which 3 months they were talking about.
As if I needed additional persuading to continue my boycott, again, the Scots have obliged. I urge everyone to stop buying scotch whiskey. Try Canadian whiskey instead. It’s cheaper, better–and the Canadians can distinguish the good guys from the bad guys.
you mean cat’s piss like Canadian Club ?
Good luck with that.
Oh Ed did torontofan muss-up your hair do? Thin skinned are you?
Canadian Club’s okay. Seagram’s Seven is better, and Royal Crown’s just delicious.
But you should consider the whiskey that freed the slaves, Torontofan! People complained to Abraham Lincoln that General Ullysses S. Grant kept a pony keg of whiskey in his tent, and drank from it every evening!
“I need Grant. He fights,” said Lincoln. “Find out what he drinks, and send him a barrel from me!”
That whiskey was Old Crow. It was also Barry Goldwater’s favorite tipple. Inexpensive and smooth. Scotch tastes like iodine, anyhow.
Over at Harry’s place, the comments on this topic are mainly local, earthy, and much funnier.
http://hurryupharry.org/
Anyone inclined to bash Scotland for anti-Semitism needs to remember that Edinburgh was the first European university to accept Jews into its medical school. A Scottish Evangelical named Orde Wingate trained the young Zionists who would become the General Staff of the IDF. Then there is Sir Walter Scott whose Nineteenth Century novels were sympathetic to Jews and their position. (The film version of Scott’s “Rob Roy,” for those who haven’t seen it, is far better in every way–script, acting, direction–than the more successful “Braveheart.”
Just as it is insane to hate an entire group for the actions a a few it is insane to laude an entire group for the actions of a few.
You’re definitely an expert on insanity.
Yes, if he reads your posts that would make him one.
The topic under discussion would be classified as current events. What is going on in West Dunbartonshire’s Regional Council is an insult to Scotland’s vaulted and valiant history! Is Scotland a Democracy? Are the rights of the minority being abridged in West Dunbartonshire?
Yeah, like David said, some of Scotland’s best friends are Jews! Well, at least they were until Scotland got a raise and moved to a nicer neighborhood.
But don’t forget that Scotland dated a cute Jewish girl in high school, and he even put on a yarmulka when he went to Synagogue with her that time!
Pretty good discussion on this at the Modernity blog with input from one of their council members.
http://tinyurl.com/3e8d7av
— my take, the Council of Dun-barton is hosted in Dumb-arton — now, just how incredibly talented to you think they could be? The phony “peace dove” in their crest noted — eighteen of the twenty-two members of the governing council are somewhere between left and falling off the pages of the book left. What else would you expect?
The bigger question — why on earth do Jews ever vote Democrat??!!??
European provincials often dislike Israel: traditional anti-semitisme unites with the new envy of the smart Israel and the solidarity of the mediocrity with the rising Third World In this case they overdo!
So, they aren’t Nazis; they just sympathize with Islamic Nazis. Thats makes it so much better.
People/organizations/libraries that ban Israeli products/books are consumed with venomous Jew-hate. Vehemently opposed to Jewish self-defense; they crave a Second Holocaust of Jews. If their towns and cities had thousands of rockets fired on them as is perpetrated against victim Israel, no doubt, they would manage to blame the rocket attacks on the Jews, too.
” After all, while every Nazi supports a boycott of Israel, not every supporter of a boycott of Israel is a Nazi. Most boycott advocates, sensitive souls that they are, would be sorely wounded by such a suggestion. ”
The first sentence contains no logic whatsoever. Anyone who calls for a boycott of Israel is a nazi. I see no boycotts of Syrian authors or Iranian authors. Secondly, those so called ” sensitive souls “, are not. They are intellectually lazy and morally obtuse excuses for human beings.
So, can we assume that those in Deut. chapter 20 who were released from active participation in war because they were fearful and fainthearted were also nazis by omission? Please clarify that for me (as it was you that said “anyone”).
How does dismissing someone from the ranks because they fear battle analogous to encouraging others to boycott another countries products or literature ?
In fact it is to prevent fear from spreading in the ranks that the cowards are dismissed from battle.
In any case to be afraid of imminent death is completely different from undermining the rights of others from afar.
Menachem -
My query is, are not Jewish organizations such as Neturei Karta passionately opposed to Israel? Does this make them (Anyone who calls for a boycott) nazis?
As opposed to phony “sensitive souls” such as these left-wing Scots who hold their warlords of old in high esteem? Who talk out of both sides? Who point and judge while excusing their own indiscretions?
Not just the Scots for sure, but the masses of Europe (and the American left), still mystified after all these years by the romanticism of the Sheik of Araby?
sh,
In answer to your query:
Jewish organizations such as Neturei Karta are NOT opposed to Israel, at all. They are opposed to Jews living in Israel before Moshiach ben David announces himself. They believe Israel is in a state of impurity and until then, and no Jew should live upon the land.
The believe that G-D will destroy the Muslims, and other occupiers who defiled the holiness of the land, and then will purify it, making it Kosher (ritually pure) again for the Jews to return.
It is not the same thing as those who boycott Israel because they hate Jews, or have a problem with Jews being strong, self-determining, in their own nation, on their own land.
Never A Dull Moment:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3340082,00.html
That’s some painfully tough evidence to not support your statement as written, don’t you think?
sh,
No, I don’t.
You are referencing a publication well known in Israel for being leftist, and skewing the truth. They are owned by the same group that publishes Ha’aretz, which is suitable for use as a cat pan liner, only. So, you have chosen a resource with an extreme leftist point of view that is totally unreliable because they skew facts. People in the US may not know that, but Israelis sure do.
You seem to want to portray Jews who are against Israel, as you have chosen a very small group of the Orthodox who are considered and banned as heretical, extreme, and are in fact, outcasts among Jews. What is your motivation for this?
You do not really know of this group, so you have cherry picked information to exploit. You do not understand that this group is actually not…….I repeat, they are actually not opposed to Israel, as a Jewish nation.
They are opposed to Jews living in Israel, NOW, before Moshiach ben David announces himself. They believe Israel is in a state of impurity and until then, and no Jew should live upon the land- YET.
But then again, they also believe that NO ONE should, and that G-D should kill anyone, of any belief, that does. Their beliefs are totally against Judaism and Torah, which is why they are considered heretics.
Again, that is not the same as those who hate Jews, because they hate Jews, or have a problem with Jews being strong, self-determining, in their own nation, on their own land.
My issue isn’t with them or you. I fully understand that they are heretics and outcasts. There are also far less radical Jewish socialists boycotting Israeli products. However, they are still Jews. My quest with Menachem was, “are they nazis?”
“Anyone who calls for a boycott of Israel is a nazi.”
That’s all, apparently a question he won’t answer.
sh,
If there are Jews boycotting Israel, they are Kapos. To boycott Israel is to intentionally harm Israel, thus Jews.
If someone wants to harm Jews, even if it is a self-hating Jew, they are no different to us than Nazis. Jews who are actually socialists, in this day and age, are in fact a very tiny percentage of the Jewish population, and would be regarded as acting against Torah, therefor heretical, if they boycotted Israel.
Anti-semitism is Anti-semitism no matter if it is called a “Nazi” or by any other hate group’s name.
Language is important. We must label things accurately, justly, and effectively if we want to win the argument and promote the good.
Evil is afoot in Dunbarton. But Scotland today is Secular and Leftist (as the National Socialists were), and “evil” is a term they sneer at and dismiss. “Nazi” still resonates as something foul, though, so it seems a good choice.
This sh person refers to them as “Dumb-arton” in one comment “phony ‘sensitive souls’” in another, but bridles at the term “Nazi”. Lots of dumb people became Nazis in the 1930s, and book burnings were probably good places for boys with sensitive souls to meet girls with sensitive souls. We’re not calling them Aushchwitz guards, you see? Just run-of-the-mill Nazis.
If the Dunbartoners had a better grasp on reality, we could really insult them by calling them “Hamas”. Wouldn’t you rather spend an evening with Himmler, Eichmann, and the boys rather than someone who tries to convince his kinsmen to send their children out in suicide belts? Human sacrifice trumps genocide – isn’t that the point of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion?
retlaw – The town is Dumbarton, the council is West Dunbartonshire.
walter you are an elohssa
Ironically, Scotland was a major destination for Jews fleeing Czarist Russia, since a great deal of shipping went there. Scotland was not quite Britain’s Ellis Island, but close—and many immigrant Jews, a hundred years ago, would pass themselves off as Scots because a brogue was more acceptable to the English than a Yiddish accent. There were vaudeville jokes about this: the Scot saying, “Ye’re a hard mon, Mr. Goldberg—are ye Scots by any chance?” The stereotype of both Scots and Jews having red hair was an assist to this.
” After all, while every Nazi supports a boycott of Israel, not every supporter of a boycott of Israel is a Nazi.”
Yes they are. I still haven’t seen any supporter of a boycott of Israel who advocates a boycott of Sudan despite the fact treh Sudanese governement kills fifty times more people than Israel, people who unlike Israel’eennemies aren’t killing its csitizens. I have still to see a supporter of boycott of Israel who spported a boycott of Irak whden Sadam was gassing Kurds, or who supports a boycot of Sri Lanka for eth operations against the Tamuls who killled tens of thousans abiout at the same time of Israel’s last large sacle reparaisal operations. Also i fail to see why anyone couldv feekl any sympathy for the Palestinians: when after two of them, ibn cold blood, slit the throat of aby in his craddle, plus murderuing two other very chiold children, the Palestins danced in the streets. No normal person could feel any sympthy for them, no noraml perosn could say anything but “Curse on you, I will keep my sympathies abnd my support for people who deserve them not you”. The only reaons anyone could support teh Palestinans is if they share the goal both Hams and PA have clearly stated: finishing Hitler’s work.
What does Sudan export to boycott? Immigrants? I’d be all in favor of that boycott.
Arabic gum. Anyway have you ever seen one call to demonstrate against Sudan by those who call to demonstrate against Israel? Have they burned the Sudanese flag?
In keeping with God’s precept that all the world’s most readily accessible oil reserves should be in the world’s worst-run countries, Sudan is sitting on a vast amount of crude.
The traction in South Africa is more complex than expressed, going back to 1948 or so. The only ally SA had, when the rest of the world turned against it, was Israel. Now that the ANC is in power they consider Israel as an enemy and for the Boers they remember Russia and Germany supporting them in the Boer Wars. Now that there is a huge “subterranean” move for SA to follow Zimbabwe’s action – the Nationalization once more of land and natural resources, opens old wounds and allegiances are coming forward. Most of SA has no idea of where Israel/Palestine even is.Much the same way as very few in the Northern Hemisphere know where the “Caprivi Strip or its significance is.
Appropriate punishment? Facebook an organized assault of thousands of individually-sent ancient Reader’s Digest Condensed Books, thus burying the West Dunbartonshire Council under a load of volumes that really DO need burning (if only to reduce their numbers, which are probably accountable for any unexplained wobbles of the earth’s axis in the last 75 years).
As soon as I started to read this article, I was reminded of the flying of the “Palestinian” flag (whatever that may be) over Dundee city hall. For the record, Dundee is not in Dunbartonshire, although I don’t think that that makes things any better – it just proves that the anti-Semitism is more widespread and more ingrained than most people will have supposed.
Left-wing councils in Britain already have a long tradition of censoring the books in the libraries which they control. That’s when they are not simply closing the libraries altogether. In Britain, the traditional left-wing definition of an educated person is someone who moves out to the suburbs and votes for the Tories.
Scotland’s predicament is worse than Britain’s as a whole, because both main parties there, the nationalists and labour, largely thrive on bigotry. West Dunbartonshire’s council is almost equally divided between the two, both of which can be relied upon to sign up to any ostentatiously anti-Israeli stunt.
From the Councillor’s comment on HP, it would seem that this incident arose because one Independant (i.e. not a member of any political party)councillor wanted ‘support’ for his strongly held view on Israeli action.
As a one-time councillor myself I would say that in supporting this particular councillor the others haven’t done much by way of forward thinking.
They’ve forgotten that they weren’t elected to support each others views on global issues. They were elected to deal with local issues. They’ve forgotten that boycotts are a very contentious issue to land on a town without any recourse to public opinion. They’ve forgotten about the word ‘precedent’ – and that once you take one course of action but fail to apply it to other – in this place global -incidents, you can rightly be accused of all manner of things. Not that a local council IS the place for global issues in the first place.
Taking all this into consideration, I would say that this is one of the most ill-advised actions I have ever seen instigated in a council chamber. These silly people, in supporting one person’s ‘strongly held views’ have brought attention onto an entire town, most of which would have been quite unlikely to even know that their representatives were taking what can only be described as a ‘vanity’ vote. In my view they’ve gone well beyond their remit.
Very well said. And I bet that, thirty years ago in Dundee, plenty of Dundonians had no idea what that strange flag was, fluttering over their town, since no-one had asked their permission to fly it on their behalf.
If you are a Scottish-American rightly proud of your heritage, you will be very surprised about the state of Scotland. The fact is, productive, intelligent, religious people left there hundreds of years ago (your ancestors) and what’s left is a sorry collection of drunken subnormals. I am Jewish but the bleatings or boycotts of these losers are like water of a duck’s back to me.
I wonder how many on Dundee’s council aside from Galloway are also of Irish Catholic extraction. The Labour Party is largely a Catholic fiefdom in the West of Scotland, as is the Scottish Socialist Party and other fringe parties, all of which vehemently oppose Scottish independence. As a Jew I know that Scotland, unlike Ireland, was on the right side of history during the Holocaust, but now, despite encouraging signs of the rise of the Scottish National Party (SNP), Scotland seems to continue being cowed by the segregated school-supporting Catholic minority, whose clerics are the power brokers while the Church of Scotland is a ridiculous irrelevance. The actions of Dundee’s council are unilateral and improper, and arguably illegal, so why has the matter not been referred to a Scottish court (but not the one that freed the Libyan guy)?
Oops — I forgot to add that I realize Galloway is no longer on the Dundee council having referred to him in the present tense. Also, his wife (ex-wife?) is a Palestinian Muslim, just in case this helps to, at least partially, explain his behavior.
The left hate the God-fearing, believer Jews because they do not want to be confronted with the absolutes of; God, his chosen people Israel, morality, good and evil, and the irreperable depravity of man (without Jesus). The left doesn’t want to face those facts because their religion, socialism, is all about a reformed man, designed into a new creature by their government.
There then is a conundrum with the Jews themselves: Why do non-religious ethnic Jews vote and support the left and socialism. Not all do, just the cowardly ones who wont stand up for God and against evil. They show the truth of the Bible when God had to deal with them in his wrath over and over again. They’re the ones who we’re unbelievers and killed every prophet he sent them.