Burning Defaced Korans: Islam-Approved
Two weeks ago the U.S. military burned a number of Korans at the Parwan Detention Facility, co-located with Bagram Air Base north of Kabul. Parwan is the largest U.S. prison facility for Islamic militants, eclipsing even Guantanamo. It held some 1,700 prisoner as of Summer 2011, three times as many as were held there during the Bush administration.
According to a recent New York Times article on the topic, in mid-February officials at Parwan began to suspect that prisoners were using library books to send messages to one another and even to plan potential uprisings. Some 1,600 books, including Korans, were examined by Afghan-American interpreters (presumably fluent in both Dari and Pashtu) then removed from the facility’s library and sent to the base incinerator. Local Afghan workers and Afghan military personnel got wind of the plan and raised a ruckus, stopping the burning and raising alarms with the Afghan public.
In the aftermath, at least 36 people — including six U.S. military personnel — have been killed in Afghan Islamic rage at the burning of the Muslim holy book. President Obama has apologized and Afghanistan’s Ulama (Sunni clerics) Council has been demanding that those responsible for burning the books — not the subsequent murderers — be tried.
In reality, it is not against Islamic law to burn Korans, as two of the following three points make clear.
First, and most importantly: authoritative fatwas exist legitimizing the burning of Korans in situations such as prevailed at Parwan. Exhibit number one is this Saudi fatwa, which spells out the conditions for disposing of Korans by either burying them or consigning them to the flames, “thus imitating Uthmaan,” the third caliph:
- If it has torn pages;
- If it has pages or suras (chapters) out of order;
- If the printed text is somehow amiss with errors or typos;
- If any of the pages are missing.
The “Online Islamic Academy” SunniPath adds: “One should not write within the Koran nor highlight it.” Taken together, these Sunni sources clearly declare that writing in a Koran is tantamount to “corrupting” the Islamic holy book and that disposal of the corrupted book by burning is perfectly acceptable.
Second: the aforementioned fatwa adduces Uthman, the third caliph of Islam (644-656 AD), because he is well-known in the Islamic world for having burned “Korans.” During his reign there were several different collected versions of Muhammad’s “revelations” circulating in the various urban centers of the rapidly expanding (by conquest) Islamic empire. According to Islamic sources, Uthman ordered a council held in Medina where any extant written or oral sources were consulted in order to create the authoritative Koran, after which he ordered the caliphal armies to burn the now-passé “Korans” wherever they might be found. Granted, these were not copies of the “true Koran” according to Muslims today. But even Saudi muftis adduce Uthman’s actions, presumably because even these false Korans contained some elements of the Muhammadan “revelation.” So the torching of obsolescent scriptures was legitimized in Islamic history by the leader many Sunnis consider to be second in prestige only to Muhammad himself.
Third: the U.S. military can hardly be accused of any degree of special prejudice against Islamic holy writ when that same military has burned Bibles.
In the spring of 2009, an unknown number of Bibles printed in Dari and Pashtu were shipped to Bagram Air Base by an unspecified American church group. The American command promptly seized the Bibles and burned them. The United States is three-quarters Christian, and the U.S. military is overwhelmingly so; another 2% or so of Americans are Jewish. Muslims make up less than 1% of the American population. Yet the American military command exhibited no hesitation whatsoever in consigning to the flames the Holy Scripture of the vast majority of Americans, and the civilian leadership of our nation never apologized for them doing so.
Contrast that with the abject obsequiousness over Koran-burning. Perhaps the president, or at least our military’s strategic communications experts, could point out that the U.S. military is officially a secular organization which refuses to accede to Christian “fundamentalists” when it comes to the Bible, and thus in the name of scrupulous fairness also insists on behaving likewise when it comes to the Islamic holy book.
During my first stint in the U.S. Army when I served as an Arabic interrogator, a favorite line often spouted by one of my 101st Airborne Division First Sergeants when critiquing lower-enlisted shortcomings was: “It don’t take a GED.” Today, “it don’t take a PhD” in Islamic history to figure out that even by Islamic rubrics the disposal of tainted Korans via fire is not just appropriate, but well-nigh mandatory (you can find the aforementioned Saudi fatwa with about 30 seconds of Googling).
Why is it that the intensely intellectual and Islam-savvy Obama administration — which includes Muslim advisors such as Dalia Mogahed in the office of faith-based partnerships and Rashad Hussain as envoy to the Organization of Islamic Cooperation — cannot make a coherent case defending the Koran burning utilizing these three points? One would think the Islamic brain trust in the executive branch could figure this out and advise the president accordingly, to the effect that the U.S. has nothing to apologize for this time. That they haven’t indicates either willful ignorance or political expediency. My money’s on the latter.
I think the president is embarrassed by the real and perceived sins of Western civilization in general and Christianity in particular, and his default position on almost every geopolitical issue is to apologize for both, early and often.
The Obama administration, admittedly expanding upon policies which began under the previous administration, is waging counterinsurgency and counterterrorism in Afghanistan — and indeed, globally — against primarily Islamic enemies. (According to the State Department, 31 of 50 foreign terrorist organizations are Muslim.) Simultaneously, the administration is attempting to abide by Islamic rubrics. At Guantanamo, U.S. military police — almost certainly Christian, but undoubtedly not Muslim — are forced by military orders to literally handle Korans with kid gloves. Bin Laden was given an Islamic burial.
Contrast this obsession with respecting the faith of our enemies with that accorded Shintoism when the U.S. occupied Japan from 1945 to 1952.
If the American occupation of Afghanistan and the execution of the global struggle against (mainly Islamic-based) terrorism is going to be conducted in accordance with Islamic norms, then let’s be fully informed about them, use them to our geopolitical advantage whenever possible, and not automatically and preemptively apologize — and show weakness — where there is no need to do so. The worrisome bottom line: the U.S. government seems ready to do what foreign Muslims, even those who are quite radical and anti-American, tell it to do. This is not “respecting Islam,” but rather appeasing Muslims who threaten, intimidate, or engage in violence.
As for the larger strategic question of whether our foreign and military policies should be held hostage to the ideology of our enemies — that is a burning question which will be decided in November.






“In reality, it is not against Islamic law to burn Korans”
Well apparently it is highly against the new oath that Army and Marine officers must be taking. They used to take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States (now known as the good old days), but now they surly must be taking an oath to protect and defend the koran (or the “Holy Qur’an” as Imam Petraeus calls it), which is the very antithesis of our Constitution. It is impossible for me to not conclude that we now have a traitor officer corp.
You mean that Officer Corps that has been fighting and dying for us for ten years now- counting only current campaigns. Those that not only swore to protect the Constitution, but to obey orders, carrying out the duties of the office they hold? That Officer Corps?
Idiot, the lowest 2d Louie in that Officer Corps is worth ten of your foul mouthed sort!
Dave,
I appreciate your defense of the good folk in the Officer Corps, but your average Combat Platoon Commander, and your average “star in their eyes” career officer, are worlds apart. The Lt. wants to get home alive. The Colonel wants his star.
The “Career Officer Corps” covers their ass, and curries favor with whatever political wind is blowing…they want their star, and they want more of them once they get one.
They WILL and they HAVE, repeatedly thrown troops under the bus for whatever political correctness reasons is fashionable at the moment. They will go along with witch hunts they know are false if there is pressure from above. They do NOT have your back, if you’re ever in a pinch you WILL fall to the expediency of their career needs first, long before the concepts of truth or justice is even part of the equation, period.
I trust Career Officers as much as I trust Career Politicians. They are cut from the same cloth.
Fighting for muslims and the koran and islam is in no way fighting for me. Even though you must never have taken the oath yourself, you should know that military officers take an unambiguous oath to the United States Constitution and nothing else. As for your “foul mouth” outburst, you can’t handle the truth.
I’m afraid I have to side with T R ’83. I was both an enlisted member and an officer and I quickly became aware of the childish politics of the senior officers in very quick order.
Perhaps the “brass-tacks” guys exist here and there and maybe in a good movie but there is a distinctly unique phenomenon among the senior officers I dealt with, with rare exception.
Also, officers with stars in their eyes tend to adopt a technique of “sponsorship” whereby they glom onto some already high-ranker and gain their favor so they are made known in the upper circles. It’s politics that usually gets a guy promoted, not ability or practical application of good judgement or even leadership.
I have had some moments while active-duty that rival the cheesiest “McHale’s Navy” script with Joe Flynn, Tim Conway and Ernie Borgnine. In one case I was standing between two LtCol’s and one was yelling in one ear to “tell him that…blah blah blah” and the other saying, “Well you tell HIM that…yadda yadda yadda”. Unbelievable. I excused myself and let them duke it out. Two senior officers, both over 40 years of age, needing me, the lowly lieutenant to be their foil.
There are many more and I wish I could make them funnier than they are but in reality they are just pathetic. Perhaps without a war to fight, the politics become the playing field. I’ve often noted that certain officers in WWII would probably have never seen any notoriety had it not been for the need of command-grade people. Eisenhower was a pencil pusher most of his career but prudence demonstrated that he was an apt and clever leader and negotiator.
In today’s army, Patton would never make it past captain unless he developed a softer, more PC attitude. But…it’s an unfair assessment because of the difference in times. Then vs. now.
I also liken the characteristics to a paradigm in the population bell-curve where, over the years, it seems people are more savvy in having that political bent to their personalities. I rejected all that and it cost me in the officer “corps” because I spoke my mind and wasn’t going to put up with political abuse. I didn’t care at that point because I wanted out. I was honorably discharged and haven’t missed the military or looked back since.
One other interesting point is that many career military types make great socialists. They like the rules, the confinement, the structure, the “dress code” and all of that. Many, though forget that there’s an outside world and that not everyone they abuse someday gets out of the military and won’t have to call them “sir” anymore or even be particularly polite. This grates on them and they see red when it happens.
Perhaps this might be part of the reason why civilians who’ve never been in the military assess military people as “mind-numbed robots” who are incapable of creative thought. And why military careerists see civilians as “idiots, losers and wimps”. But in reality, the leftist and the career military member are often not that far apart. That is, unless the military member is acutely aware of service-to-country and duty and the limits to their own power and the responsibility to same and, above all else, has a healthy respect for others and a good deal of humility. There are some…but when I got out two decades ago, they were fairly few and far-between.
On other note. The most militant people I’ve ever met or dealt with never served one day in the military.
Interesting thread….I guess in reading your replies I must be a REAL oddity. I’m a retired Army colonel who has spent the last 12 years in Bosnia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar and a couple other countries to boot. I would describe myself as a conservative Christian who has been in command from the platoon to battalion levels…and I NEVER threw anyone “under the bus” during my 30 years in active and reserve duty. The issue of Islam in the Middle East, and especially in Afghanistan is not just a religious issue but a cultural issue. In 2002 (3 months after the Taliban fell) I was part of the Special Operations effort in Afghanistan and I can tell you that the atrocities that the “Muslim Police” of the Taliban committed were to say the least outrageous. Walking in downtown Kabul a patrol of these policemen carried (among other things) razor strops that they used to do on the spot corrections against men or women not adhering to the teachings of Islam. Schools offered a rudimentary level of education, but only if you were a male. When thinking of Afghanistan, you need to imagine what it was like to live in mud-brick buildings in the 12th century and then throw in some Honda portable generators, some ragged-out Toyota trucks and then throw in a smattering of AK47 rifles. I’ve heard/read ideas from people in this country to pass out copies of the Quran and when I read such suggestions it strikes me as strange at just how many people in this country really don’t understand the average Afghani. While proclaiming to be students of Islam, the Taliban for the most part have the same literacy rate as the rest of the population (43% for men and 12.6% for women) which means that interpretation of the Quran (a difficult thing for degreed professionals to do, let alone someone who has not even learned to read) is provided by those who hold onto power and most of the rest of the public just put their faith in them. The burning of the Quran is being exploited by those who oppose President Karzai and of course US forces. The American soldier who shot the Afghani family will also be used by the enemy to exploit discontent, but all this does not mean that the majority of Afghanis are against the US involvement. Lastly, in the military we are taught to obey orders…we are also expected to give our best counsel to our superiors and if need be take a stand against authority IF we receive an unlawful order. I have personally made decisions in Afghanistan which went against orders when they contradicted common sense in a combat zone that would have cost my men their lives and I’m not the first or the last to do so. I can’t speak to the Bible being burned, and personally I don’t know the details of the incident or who ordered it, nor do I understand how they got there and in to US government hands to start with. I can’t answer for every one of my brother officers in the different branches of the military, only for myself. While I too may be disappointed in how many senior officers acquiesce to their superiors over key issues rather than retire, I refuse to believe ALL senior officers operate in that manner. By the way….I served with Dr Furnish on a mission to the Middle East when he was with the 101st and I was a young lieutenant and I’m proud to know him. I think his article is dead-on as to the administration’s 2 dimensional approach in addressing major policy issues in Afghanistan and throughout the Muslim world.
Silverthane,
First, thank you for your dedicated service and the preservation of our freedom, such as it is these days from the threat of terrorists and those who would do us harm.
My post is obviously from my own perspective and I was USAF. For the ground soldier, especially in an actual combat arena, there is ample room for people like you and others who are there to do a job to actually do so. Like I said, perhaps in peacetime, the politics themselves become the playing field, lacking a suitable enemy to go fight. The natural competitiveness may just “take over”.
What I saw often was just pathetic. I am truly disappointed to say it. I actually invested a lot of myself into the service but either didn’t know the secret handshake or just abhorred double standards or maybe I saw things a lot of other people either chose to ignore or actually never paid attention to. Not that I looked for it, it often just presented itself to me.
Yes, there were senior officers who did well, were stand-up guys and who held rank and who I respected implicitly. There were many though who were heavily political and who had their circles. Sure, most people do that by nature but often you could see these people’s circles for what they were, cliques of power.
Obviously, we need a good, reasoned, well-educated, smart and clever military. I still think ours is the best in the world after having seen what other countries have. But that’s what makes it so much more disappointing when I remember seeing what I did and being treated the way I was. I dunno…maybe I was just an a-hole and they wanted to teach me a lesson. I don’t really believe that since I conducted myself properly and never was insubordinate or disrespectful. But my overall experience over 11+ years was pretty damned negative.
I intended no slight to you nor any of the good military members out there. But I stand by my assessment, knowing full well it is just my own opinion.
Again, thank you for your dedication and very hard work. Your post was very well thought out and you described the difficulties perfectly. I have a friend who’s been to Afghanistan twice and he said the same thing, like going back in time.
Were it not for you and people like you, it’s very likely things here in the US would be worse and the terrorists would be more bold.
Why haven’t they burned or buried them all then?
I like the cut of your jib.
Amen!!
The Quran is indeed full of errors, some of it literally nonsensical in the Arabic. This has been reported by numbers of native Arabic-speakers on various websites.
It’s curious that this is not distributed a bit more widely.
Of course, the basic question is whether the recording, of Muhammad and those who followed him, of his innermost thoughts about the cosmos and his place in it, can be considered ‘accurate.’
” One would think the Islamic brain trust in the executive branch could figure this out and advise the president accordingly, to the effect that the U.S. has nothing to apologize for this time. That they haven’t indicates either willful ignorance or political expediency. ”
There is a third possibility my friend and I ask you to give it serious consideration. In a series of small steps the Obama administration has begun the process of elevating Islam to a preeminent position amongst religions practiced in the USA. Christianity and its precepts have been attacked by the Obama administration under the guise of ” reproductive rights “. Judaism has been under attack by defamation since the Obama speech in Cairo where the word ” Holy ‘ was glaringly absent form his description of books Holy to the Jewish people. To say nothing of his constant attacks and attempts to undermine the Jewish State. One may not even use the word ” Islam ” in government correspondence or briefings any more. Yet Judaism and Christianity are both under constant attack by Obama. If re-elected ( G-d forbid! ) we can expect the gloves to come off as the assault intensifies.
We all have to simply take off the blinders and connect the dots.
As if more proof was needed….
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9130779/Ayatollah-Khamenei-praises-Barack-Obamas-anti-war-comments.html
The elevation of Islam is far, far, far worse in the UK than in America. I think the heart of the conspiracy is Europe, with America just absorbing some of it by cultural osmosis. North America doesn’t have the catastrophically low fertility of Europe, and most American Muslims were fleeing the radicals of their home countries instead of wanting a jihad.
Dear LORD, May the memory of Obama be washed from our nation starting November 6, 2012. Amen
No, we cannot wash hm from our memory…
We dare NOT even try, we need to remember Obama forever….
Like the Alamo, Pearl Harbor, and The Holocaust.
So that the words “never again” will actually MEAN something.
Thanks. Unfortunately he is assisted by some of my fellow Israelis in this. But all worms turn, in the end.
“As for the larger strategic question of whether our foreign and military policies should be held hostage to the ideology of our enemies — that is a burning question which will be decided in November.”
I don’t know about that as our military is rather subservient to islam and this predates Obama. Under Bush, army officers were kissing korans and begging for forgiveness for “insults to the Holy Qur’an” in iraq.
Who is “we”?????
Members of Congress need to connect the dots and take action but either they’re not smart enough, or they’re afraid to. Which is it?
FEAR is their biggest motivation. They are mostly cowards who, sunning themselves in the light of DC upper-crustiness, avoid confrontation, avoid serious discussion, avoid those who are upset or angry with them.
This includes those who would label them “islamophobes” because in their minds, those “darned independents” control the whole election cycle and so they need to make sure they don’t tick anyone off.
If you think for a moment about DC culture and the circles these people operate in, you’d get a more complete idea. Take the show “The Office” to DC. These people seek out their own comfort zones and avoid treading in territory to make things really happen. Also, the senior “leadership” such as Boehner, McCain, etc, clamp down on those who think they might be able to make a difference by applying that “seniority” BS on them.
However, as regards seniority: “Some people do something the wrong way for years and call it experience.” Which is Boehner and McCain in the most distilled form. I can easily see McCain addressing a junior congressman, “Shee, we need to work together with various committeesh in order to accomplisshhh theesh thingsh. You can’t go out there and start criticishing the preshident, that’sh not how we make people like ush.” Using that “fatherly” oh-you’re-so-naive tone.
Those people always annoy me. But that’s a heavy part of DC culture. See American Spectator’s “The Ruling Class”. It’s very worth the read.
Enough with all of this legalistic bullshit. Islam spits on all other religions, yet the West gives it special dispensations. A great majority of its adherents have yet to make it past the 9th century. They should be quarantined from the rest of the civilized world. It is time to level the playing field. Or, in the words of our Noble Leader, the Groveler in Chief, it’s about fairness. No more free passes, no more lame excuses, no more bowing and scraping before the screaming hordes of true believers. Our virtuous liberal press should approach Islam just as it approaches Christianity and Judaism; with disdain and mockery. But, of course, that would be beyond the intellectual capacity of the turds on the editorial boards of the NY Times, WashPost, and the rest of our exalted MSM. Our ‘advanced’ contemporary artists shold be encouraged to produce the Islamic equivalent of Christ/Piss. We should demand this. And, of course, a National Burn the Koran Day would be welcome. The message must be sent that Moslems are free to practice their religion, but only within the constraints of the society they have chosen to live in. If they choose to live in the West, they must alter their practices to conform with their adopted home. What they do in Wazyristan, Wackomistan, or Mumbojumbostan, I don’t give a rat’s ass.
“But, of course, that would be beyond the intellectual capacity of the turds on the editorial boards of the NY Times.”
It’s not about intellect. They know that they’d be on a death list by sundown.
Liberals will only attack safe, soft targets, and then scramble back to the safety of their homes located in neighborhoods comprised of mostly white, Christian/Jewish taxpayers whom they despise.
They should approach Islam with disdain and mockery just like they treat the “bitter clingers”, except in the hearts of the media they truely know one group is dangerous to them personally, how many journalist have been killed by Christians or Jews over cartoons mocking their religions, even art work subsidized by the National Endowment of the Arts (piss Christ, the elephant dung virgin mary?). The double standard here is breath taking, as are all leftist double standards and rolling over and playing dead before Allah seems to be the prefered path for liberals, why don’t liberals realize the tenants of Islam are directly incompatible with the goals of the various liberal intrest groups? Will western women finally obtain equality under Isalm? Will agrieved ethnic groups finally achieve equality under Islam? Will the left finally destroy the evil of capitalism and make good on the promises of Marx under Islam? Will the media enjoy the freedom of press they so selectively apply under Isalm? Seems liberals are putting their eggs in the wrong basket.
Outstanding!!
Well said, Carla. The proper answer to the question of when and how to properly dispose of a Koran according to Islamic law is “WHO CARES! We are not bound by Islamic law and NEVER will be.”
chuck,
Bingo! That was rather the point of my article.
Why is it, WHY IS IT, that nobody ever seems to want to punish the Afghans who dafaced the Korans in the first place? I’m sure under Sharia Law, which these morons all seem to follow, it is a horrible offense to deface a Koran by writing in it. So, if these jerks defaced a holy book, why are they NOT punished for it? You would think that something so terrible as writing in a Koran would be a capital offense to Afghans. But no, you don’t hear anything about punishing the Afghans who started this whole mess in the first place.
Perhaps WE should do something about it. If the Afghans demand that the American soldiers be punished for burning the books, then the Afghans who defaced the books by writing in them should be punished as well. But you would never get “Mr. Apology,” our president, do ever demand something like that.
This can all explained with reference to islamic theology and its prescription for the proper relationship between muslim and non-muslim, which, under islamic law, is to be typified by islamic dominance and infidel subservience and submission vis a vis all the things muslim. Quran rage is ALL about making the infidel visibly submissive and subservient to islam, as well as frightened and apologetic – and Obama is always happy to obliged(idiot).
Your article makes too much sense and so will never be accepted by the politically correct who dispense logic according to how offended one is or one’s race/gender/class position in the world order. Couldn’t you put just a little Newspeak in it to give the eternally offended that down-home, warm, southern wind feeling?
Muslims are never wrong; about anything. Once this is understood one can understand all the ammo and explosives expended by way of preaching from both sides – it is a “hotly” contested debate and the more you kill the more right you are.
I enjoyed your article, and I can’t wait to see the gymnastics employed by Islamist apologists as they seek to paint it as ‘racist’ or ‘Islamophobic’. I’m picturing something akin to greased-up circus contortionists playing a drunken game of ‘Twister’.
More likely, they will simply not address it at all, and will instead seek to cast doubt on your scholarship, motivations or character. Those tend to be the default fall-back positions whenever they cannot refute the merits of one’s argument. I find it immensely amusing that, where you are concerned, they will gain even less traction with these lines of approach.
Robert,
Thanks. Yes, either this piece will be ignored by the Administration and its useful idiots in the media (and I hate to say it, but Fox is getting almost as bad on this topic as the rest) OR I’ll be excoriated, ad hominem and ad nauseaum, on “Loonwatch.” But at least the folks here get on, and they’ll all be voting in November….right?
Woah Nelly!
Tim, you’re using a reasoned, sound, logical argument to refute the emotional, muslim-loving haters of all things American. What, do you think this is 1955 when such presentation actually worked?
I submit that in order for the right to get anything done anymore, we have to have screaming, yelling, filthy protestors and whining….lots of whining on both national and local news channels. (sarc)
Clearly, your argument makes more sense than anything the left can come up with but again, when dealing with the left, logical, practical, unemotional arguments carry no weight. They have never grown up and can only emote. People laugh and wonder why actors are all such left-wingers; It’s because they spend ridiculous amounts of time “finding their motivation” when practicing “the method”. It’s 100% emotion 100% of the time. So they’re trapped in that box they’ve chosen to live in.
But all national socialists are simple, un-evolved, emotionally immature and selfish people. Add to that, they have an urgent need to belong to something that satisfies that comfort zone. Constant validation from the outside, yet nothing from within save for anger, hatred, insecurity, shame, guilt, jealousy, envy, sloth and all the rest.
I’ve often said that “everyone’s puttin’ on a show”. But it’s also very clear who they are by who they’re trying to impress.
P Jay,
Hope springs eternal. Probably my mistake.
“Why is it that the intensely intellectual and Islam-savvy Obama administration — which includes Muslim advisors such as Dalia Mogahed in the office of faith-based partnerships and Rashad Hussain as envoy to the Organization of Islamic Cooperation — cannot make a coherent case defending the Koran burning utilizing these three points?”
Answer: Because they’re prison islamists
Dhimmis, you mean, Anonymous?
Islam is not a monolithic entity like the Catholic Church, though the Shia branch is close. There are four major bodies of Islamic law, each with their own spin on the Quran, Sunnah, and Ahadith. Beyond that, any one leader’s fatwa is only applicable for the people who follow that leader’s guidance. There are any number of conflicting fatwas, just as there are conflicting edicts in Christianity.
The asinine thing about this situation is that the military is approaching this from the wrong angle. It’s not about respect or sensitivity, it’s simple force protection. The adverse reaction by Soldiers and others to the “sensitivity” training is a valid response. However, I don’t have to like or respect Islam, or the Afghan culture, to understand that mishandling a Quran is going to increase the risk for me, my Soldiers, and the mission.
Soldier,
Yes. And if anything, you understate the case for the diversity of views within Islam, because besides the four major Sunni madhhahib (pl. of “madhhab,” “School of jurisprudential interpretation:” Hanbali, Hanafi, Maliki and Shafi`i), there are at least the following in addition: Twelver Shi`i (Ja`fari), Sevener Shi`i (Isma’ili), Fiver Shi`i (Zaydi), Druze, Alawi, Ibadi, Deobandi, Barelvi, Ahmadi AND the various and sundry Sufi tariqat (dozens of major ones, hundreds of minor ones).
But I adduced the Saudi Wahhabi fatwa because its Hanbali-derived Sunni fundamentalism is closest to that Deobandi, Hanafi-derived jurisprudence of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
I don’t think it’s just a matter of “force protection,” however, on the administration and General-officer side. We are falling off the deep end from respecting Islamic culture into privileging it.
Soldier. Good points. These people cannot be resoned with in a mob situation. And like all false teachers, keeping them in a mob-mental state works to their benefit. Individually I have been able to have rational discussions with Muslims. They are not dealing with the same rational minds the Good LORD gave to them. Being brought up in the delusional world of the Mohammedan deception, is not easy to undo.
“I don’t have to like or respect Islam, or the Afghan culture, to understand that mishandling a Quran is going to increase the risk for me, my Soldiers, and the mission.”
My two cents on the quran burning: The ISAF troops (i.e. non-Muslim) who’d been alerted by Afghan-American terps (read: Muslims) should have ordered the burning be done by same terps with no non-Muslim present.
Then, when/if some Afghan squealed on the heresey of such an act…the ISAF propaganda machine should have been ready with an apropos explanation on why this had to be done. Then ISAF should have let the Afghan majlis pick members of a jirga to decide the faith of the transgressors (i.e. the prisoners who desecrated these qurans in the first place) which would be a public hanging.
This whole thing smells bad. I’ll leave it at that.
Islam.. the devolving ‘faith’. A nomadic religion born in war and sadly grows the very same way.
Proof – we needn’t look any further than the basket case areas of Egypt, Syria and the occupied area near Israel for starters.
Egypt, Syria and the area Trans-Jordanian squatters call ‘home’ WAS the MOST Christian area of the M E until the early 7th Century.
Philosophy, medicine, art, religion, music, theater history, etc., made that area of the world truly is what the term ‘Progressive’ was truly intended to be.
That is until Islam’s infamous initially shunned though returning with a vengeance, ‘Mo’. A murderer of innocence and child molester to boot, died. Poisoned.. whatever.
Soon afterward MANY Crusades Wars were waged across Europe for 400 + years. Longer and in some cases STILL occurring in SE Europe/ M E.
Most Muslims have a permanent white hot anger visibly seen because their ENTIRE culture, being is sold per the Koran’s teachings ‘Great’ when in reality THEY KNOW it’s a complete bag of counterproductive, ridiculously divisive and complete shit.
Which is why ALL strict Muslim adhering nations haven’t evolved beyond the 7th-15 Century.
Ironically a majority of them SURVIVE due to Western influence!
UNICEF, Peace Corps, non-profit CHRISTIAN organizations, Western world nations etc.,
Though WAAAYYY down the ‘giving food chain’ are the Illiberals who provide a PITTANCE and pump their chest for their effort, ‘sacrifice’.
Curious: What or where do ‘humanitarian’ efforts by Muslim countries take place in Christian-majority nations?
Oh, that’s right. Nowhere. Though they sure like to beg for Zionist aid, money when crisis or disasters occur.
The collective GDP of the 57 Muslim nations is below $3 trillion AND is going down each and every quarter, year.
Less than 600 universities collectively in these countries for ~2 billion people. The illiteracy rate is STAGGERING. The # of scientists, doctors, chemists etc., per capita COLLECTIVELY or per nation is a sick joke.
Yep glad to see Islam ‘paying off’.
Weakening us and making us look uncertain/foolish is the whole point.
And thank you Timothy Furnish -
President Contrite – our ‘sorry’ leader – must have this need to show his remorse on an almost daily basis. He probably apologizes to his mukadzi before his feet hit the floor in the morning . I don’t know his tribe any more than I know his nationality but I suspect that any gang affiliation would be with the Mau Mau.
Somebody keyed this bit yesterday – “Oby apologizes and the fat mullahs roll in the streets laughing!”
It is getting rather embarrassing!
Burning a defaced Koran can be (slightly) compared to retiring a U.S. flag by burning it. The insensitivity of the occupation army in Afghanistan, being stupid enough to burn Korans found in the prison library, is almost beyond belief. Anyone with their head glued on could see the proper response: remove the books from the hated prison, and see that our Afghan proxies retire the books for us. However, I don’t believe this was accidental, but rather orchestrated (though I do not purport to have a clue by whom), and equivalent to shoving a stick into an anthill. There is too much money to be made in heroin and armaments, money laundering and interest, to allow the war to actually end. Obama’s response was the only one reasonable.
Andre,
I’m curious: did you actually READ my article? Apparently not, because you seem blissfully unaware of the point that under Islamic rubrics, burning a “defaced” Qur’an is perfectly acceptable. Ironically, had we handed such Qur’ans over to, say, some Afghan Sunni ulama, they would have almost certainly have disposed of them by….burning them. Then we would have heard nary a peep of protest.
Your assertion that the Administration wants the Afghan war to continue is beyond the scope of the topic here, not to mention over-the-top Chomskian.
Good piece. First time I have actually seen the term ‘Chomskian’ though I don’t know why. I have a call in to my ancestors to return Noam to whence he came, but actually I think he was born in Jerusalem so cancel that..
So all the killings (assassinations) on our base’s were done because it was TUESDAY ??? I THINK NOT !!!!
“In reality, it is not against Islamic law to burn Korans…”
In reality, dirty infidels aren’t even supposed to touch their holy book, and burning them is definitely out, hence the outrage of our pals in Afghanistan.
For example, guards at Gitmo are not allowed (by us) to touch the holy Korans of the inmates. That’s because most Muslims believe that the rest of us are too dirty to touch a book containing the words of their murderous, pedophile, slaveowning, desert brigand of a prophet.
Only purified Muslims are supposed to touch it.
“Burning a defaced Koran can be (slightly) compared to…”
…flushing a turd down a toilet.
Same thing.
The Taliban destroyed the Bamiyan Buddha statues in 2001. The statues were built in the 6th Century and were unique in the world. The Taliban felt they had no choice but to destroy the idols of another religion.
Perhaps some the the people who participated in the murders following the burning of the Korans were members of the Taliban.
Thanks for putting 2 and 2 together, more than the leftstream media has done. BTW, the burning of the Bibles and the apology for the Quran burning were both done for the same reason – so as not to offend Muslims. Looks like a theme here.
Boy, you guys, spoiling an excuse for a perfectly good apology!
I think someone up above hit the nail on the head, it wasn’t that the korans were burned it was that we infidels did it. We infidels defiled their holy book by even touching it let alone opening it and then burning it.
As to the koran not making sense, I still think it started with Mohammad being visited by the angel Gabriel. I think Mohammad was deceived by Satan pretending to be Gabriel. That’s the only way the whole story makes any sense. The only other “religion” I can think of that even comes close were the thugees in India and the British took care of them decades ago.
In hindsight, they probably should have handed those Korans over to a local Mullah to deal with. Yeah, the Afghans were just looking for an excuse to riot, but even the taliban would have had a hard time justifying freaking out over one of their own Mullahs properly disposing of Korans that had been damaged by other muslims.
It’s beyond belief Westerners/ Christians can’t touch the Qu’ran with their bare hands. Though in reality and I believe this to be true – it’s a GIFT!
Eastern and/or Muslims bathrooms more times than not contain NO toilet paper. Instead an enema-like hose and MAYBE a standing toilet complete with poor water pressure if one’s so ‘lucky’.
Whereas the floor’s ALWAYS wet from the prior person’s use.. yikes (I’d rather wear flip flops on Bourbon Street during Mardi Gras)!
Eastern/ Muslim nation’s public bathroom sinks rarely have soap as well. Apparently water alone does the trick..!
If you’re ‘fortunate’ to have soap it’s the cheap, odd colored stuff in a rusty, metallic holder (FYI: NEVER use their restrooms without hand sanitizer, kleenex tissues on your person and be prepared to use one’s shirt when opening/closing the door – too many deuce droppers walk from their recent floor soaked stall for the exit).
Qur’an. Not Qu’ran.
This is totalitarianism. This is not about what you are allowed to do. This is how about who is allowed to do it. We are infidels. Let’s not be dhimmis.
How about just “Koran.”( and no “the Holy”) We don’t yet call mosques “masjid,” although they would like us to. Let’s not play the linguistic dhimmi game.
Hi Tim:
First off, thank you for pointing us to the Saudia Arabian fatwa. I suspect that reaction to the treatment of copies of the Qur’an is cultural, and that different folks would react in different ways, and your response in a comment as to the many varieties of Islam is an important one.
When the Florida pastor threatened to burn a copy of the Qur’an, GEN Petraeus said, “Were the actual burning to take place, the safety of our soldiers and civilians would be put in jeopardy and accomplishment of the mission would be made more difficult” – and something along those lines certainly seems to have been happening here.
COL Pat Lang, who has, like yourself, a soldier-scholar background and the appropriate language skills — and who in fact introduced the Arabic program at West Point – isn’t surprised that Afghans have taken umbrage at the Qur’an burnings, and sets it in the context of “winning hearts and minds” – writing:
QUOTE: Petraeus is obviously correct. The US has gone to a lot of trouble to try to establish the idea that the US is not at war with Islam. It has been poorly done, but nevertheless it has been done. :UNQUOTE
So we have, as usual, a knotty problem here – there’s some existing Afghan anger at American military presence, mixing in with warlord and other local loyalties, shaken down with the shifting sands of opportunism in a time of uncertainty and change, keying easily into religious understandings that may or may not be theologically or locally, culturally justified but that certainly give some kind of religious sanction to outrage, impacting the issues of recruitment and withdrawal – and then the impact that an apology, believed, disbelieved or ignored in Afghanistan, has both there and on the internal American political process.
I’d say there’s room for more than one interpretation of the situation, and I’m grateful for the scholarly precision and nuance with which you present yours.
But this is getting a bit long, so I’ll say more in a follow up.
And Tim, one last thing –
There’s a video titled “Hamas accuses Fatah of desecrating Islam” on YouTube that shows Fatah (portrayed as a rat) desecrating Qur’ans by burning them, at the 48 second mark (you’ll find it at “watch?v=sv2RlSuHGQA”) — and I actually found a very similar video from Fatah accusing Hamas of similar disrespect — featuring a table littered with Qur’ans and hand grenades.
Just a curious side-note FYI.
Best, Charles
Hi Tim:
When that same Florida pastor threatened to burn a copy of the Qur’an, Dr. Abdalqadir as-Sufi wote:
QUOTE: We have news for the poor creature. He cannot burn the Qur’an. It is impossible. The Qur’an is the uncreated word of Allah. When a Muslim asks another Muslim to hand it to him he does not say, “give me the Qur’an” but rather “give me the Mus-haf.” That is to say , “give me the copy.”
[ … ] The Qur’an is the uncreated word of Allah. That is why it is unassailable. Of course, we treat the Copy with respect. However this unbalanced peasant preacher, in copying Mao and The Red Guards simply displays his ignorance. “Allah uses the enemies of the Deen to advance the Deen.”
When word came to a remote Muslim village in China that Mao’s Revolutionary Guards were coming to burn their Mus-hafs, the Imam assembled all the children and began to teach them to recite the Qur’an. When the Guards finally arrived they were met by smiling villagers in front of a pile of Copies. As the Guards set fire to the books the sounds of a hundred children came from the Mosque reciting the blessed words of the Qur’an.
:UNQUOTE
That sounds a whole lot better to me than killing a bunch of people.
Our groveling, apologetic Islam Defender in Chief respects the militant Moslem faith of our militant Moslem enemies, and what does he have to show for it? According to Zogby (a leftist pollster) he’s more despised on the Arab street than George W. Bush.
As usual, Dr Furnish nails it right on the head. As a supplemental comment, an imam out in california recently stated, in matter-of-fact fashion, that he will take damaged or old Korans from members of his congregation, and throw them into his fireplace, as this is what he describes is the proper way to dispose of them. He even rips the pages out to make sure that everything burns completely.
The Honorable Mr. Urquahart is exactly right. Here is the link to the video and interview of Imam Jihad Turk of USC: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/episodes/september-16-2011/quran-disposal/9519/
Note that, in the video, Imam Turk is emulating what Elrond told Isildur in “Lord of the Rings” concerning Sauron’s Ring: “cast[ing] it into the fire!”
Excellent point. And I loved House of Cards.
Another House of Cards fan here…
Nicely done Dr. Furnish. I would never expect to see anything with this objectivity in the drive-by media. Thank you!
Violent Muslims went into a murderous rage killing and wounding many innocents over Americans disposing of Korans that had messages written in them by Muslim terrorists.
How strange, because Pakistani Muslims DELIBERATELY defile their own Korans. Will distraught and outraged Obama, Clinton and U.S. military leaders wring their hands in horror and demand Muslims apologize and demand Muslims be brought to account for defiling Korans?
Why are Pakistanis throwing away 100s of Korans into sewage filled canal?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69VIER7nzz8&feature=player_embedded
I am saddened that the United States government would go to great lengths to tell the American public that our military did something offensive and wrong according to Muslim Law, but would say Saddam Hussien was burried at sea, which is also apparently a lie. Is this only to create American sympathy for the Muslim culture? Terrorists passing information within the Korans had already broken their own law. Thank you, Dr. Furnish, for speaking the truth and letting the public know what is going on within our government.
Look at this! Parwan is going to be handed over to Afghan control within the year! http://news.yahoo.com/u-hand-over-afghan-prisons-including-jail-where-124808078–abc-news.html
I’m willing to bet that there were be far worse human rights violations than burning of books under Kabul’s supervision. And that “extremists” will soon be finding themselves pardoned and released–whether they’ve written in Qur’ans or not.
Er, “there WILL be far worse….” I should never try to comment on here when I’m also watching NCAA hoops.
gets away with his apologies for — actually attacks upon — America is the sad and sordid fact that the “ex”-Muslim spiritual guide and Obama mentor Jeremiah Wright’s “Goddamn America” is a poisonous, hate-filled sentiment more deeply held and widely shared nowadays than we could ever have imagined.
but it’s not unbeatable.
What kind of god these people worship? A god that needs mere people to defend him? A god that cannot defend himself?
A mother needs to protect a child because it is weak and defenseless but a god, god they call Allah? That omnipotent, punishing, revengeful, everlasting, unbeatable god needs people killing people so that he can stay in power and be respected? Yay!
Excellent, well argued and fair piece. Bravo. Now maybe the MSM will dollow suit but I won’t hold my breath.
Good thought-provoker, Dr. Furnish.
I wonder how many of the rioters actually know any details about the case? I’m betting, like those on the rampage after the Danish Mohammad cartoons, few of them have any clear idea of what happened. The story they get whipped up by is a highly fictionalized one full of false but salacious details, such as: a detail of U.S. soldiers are commissioned by their senior officer to ransack the library and go from cell to cell wresting Qur’ans by force from the hands of devout and unsuspecting prisoners. Then they had a bonfire and roasted pigs over the burning pages.
If we can’t fix false narratives stuff like this is likely to continue.
It was not hard to suspect that this was about control –
In the back of your mind you wonder – what do they do with old Korans. In the Pak floods a lot of Korans must have been destroyed. [And the Saudis burn Bibles seized at their airports.]
::
It is just an arrogant display of Islamic law against what they see as the inferior infidel.
Whom they think that by rights – their religious law should extend to – or be in control of.
Wishful thinking!!
You can talk about ‘respect’ – till the cows come home – but handing one of your men over to be beheaded is another thing!!
In the years following Muhammad’s death, there was some confusion about the contents of the Koran, with several different versions in circulation. An authoritative version was eventually issued by the ruling clerics and all other copies were burned. (http://www.evolutionary-metaphysics.net/history_of_islam.html)
Interesting… the quran’s were burned.
This is a good tip especially to those new to the blogosphere.
Simple but very precise information… Thanks for sharing this one.
A must read post!